Weekend Open Discussion – Part II

Now Open, Part II!

Prior weekend thread closed due to comment overflow.

This entry was posted in General. Bookmark the permalink.

159 Responses to Weekend Open Discussion – Part II

  1. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Fed Races to Rescue Bear Stearns
    In Bid to Steady Financial System
    Storied Firm Sees
    Stock Plunge 47%;
    J.P. Morgan Steps In
    March 15, 2008

    Credit turmoil spread to the heart of the U.S. financial system as Bear Stearns Cos., an 85-year-old institution that has survived the Depression and two world wars, sought and received emergency funding backed by the federal government.

    In an extraordinary move, the Federal Reserve and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. stepped in to keep Bear afloat following a severe cash crunch.

    The maneuver signaled that the Fed was trying to move aggressively to prevent Bear’s crisis from spreading to the broader economy. But it seemed to do little to soothe fears. Bear’s shares fell 47% to a nine-year low of $30 in New York Stock Exchange composite trading at 4 p.m. The Bear crisis, coming on the heels of this week’s implosion of a publicly held affiliate of Carlyle Group, further rattled Wall Street. The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell nearly 195 points.

    The lifeline gives Bear access to cash for an initial period of 28 days. J.P. Morgan will borrow the money from the Fed and relend it to Bear. Exact terms weren’t disclosed, but the amount is limited only by how much collateral Bear can provide, Fed officials said.

    The Fed, not J.P. Morgan, is bearing the risk of the loan. It is the first time since the Great Depression that the Fed has lent in this fashion to any entity other than a bank.

    Some Wall Street executives said they thought Bear was likely to be sold, in whole or piecemeal, in a matter of days, to prevent it from going under. Bear, the fifth-largest investment bank, said it has retained investment bank Lazard to weigh alternatives. Those alternatives “can run the gamut,” Bear Chief Executive Alan Schwartz said in a conference call.

  2. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Foreclosure on Las Vegas Casino to Begin
    March 15, 2008

    The developer of the Cosmopolitan Resort Casino, a $3.9 billion condo-hotel complex on the Las Vegas Strip, has been notified by its primary lender that it will begin foreclosure proceedings.

    The move by Deutsche Bank AG, the lender on a $760 million senior loan, comes after the developer, Ian Bruce Eichner, wasn’t able to finalize a deal for new financing amid the credit crunch. Mr. Eichner in late February cut a tentative deal with two of his other lenders, Global Hyatt Corp. and New York hedge fund Marathon Asset Management, for a possible rescue of the twin-tower project. A default on the loan in January triggered automatic defaults on an additional $175 million in loans.

    If foreclosure is completed, the project could prove to be one of the first big development projects in the country to be victimized for the continuing difficulties of securing new debt in a business that is heavily dependent on it. Even developer Harry Macklowe, a New York real-estate mogul who is swimming in debt after earlier this year being unable to pay off loans on seven Manhattan skyscrapers that he bought for $7 billion, has managed to work out extensions with his lenders and has so far avoided foreclosure.

    The problems with the Cosmopolitan come as Las Vegas is in the midst of an unprecedented construction boom that is affecting nearly every corner of the Strip, the main tourist thoroughfare.

  3. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Debt Reckoning: U.S. Receives a Margin Call
    March 15, 2008

    The U.S. is at the receiving end of a massive margin call: Across the economy, wary lenders are demanding that borrowers put up more collateral or sell assets to reduce debts.

    The unfolding financial crisis — one that began with bad bets on securities backed by subprime mortgages, then sparked a tightening of credit between big banks — appears to be broadening further. For years, the U.S. economy has been borrowing from cash-rich lenders from Asia to the Middle East. American firms and households have enjoyed readily available credit at easy terms, even for risky bets. No longer.

    Recent days’ cascade of bad news, culminating in yesterday’s bailout of Bear Stearns Cos., is accelerating the erosion of trust in the longevity of some brand-name U.S. financial institutions. The growing crisis of confidence now extends to the credit-worthiness of borrowers across the spectrum — touching American homeowners, who are seeing the value of their bedrock asset decline, and raising questions about the capacity of the Federal Reserve and U.S. government to rapidly repair the problems.

    Global investors are pulling money from the U.S., steepening the decline of the U.S. dollar and sending it below 100 yen for the first time in a dozen years. Against a trade-weighted basket of major currencies, the dollar has fallen 14.3% over the past year, according to the Federal Reserve. Yesterday it hit another record low against the euro, falling 2.1% this week to close at 1.567 dollars per euro.

    Lenders and investors are pushing up the interest rates they demand from financial institutions seen as solid just a few months ago, or demanding that they sell assets and come up with cash. Banks and Wall Street firms are so wary about each other that they’re pulling back. Financial markets, anticipating that the Fed will cut rates sharply on Tuesday to try to limit the depth of a possible recession, are questioning the central bank’s commitment or ability to keep inflation from accelerating.

  4. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Bear Stearns May Lose Independence After Fed-JPMorgan Bailout

    Bear Stearns Cos.’s 85 years as an independent Wall Street firm may be coming to an end as JPMorgan Chase & Co. considers buying the crippled company.

    Teetering on the brink of collapse from a lack of cash, Bear Stearns got emergency funding yesterday from the Federal Reserve and JPMorgan in the largest government bailout of a U.S. securities firm. The move failed to avert a crisis of confidence among Bear Stearns’s customers and shareholders, who drove the stock down a record 47 percent.

    After denying earlier this week that access to capital was at risk, Bear Stearns Chief Executive Officer Alan Schwartz said yesterday that the company’s cash position had “significantly deteriorated” in the past 24 hours. The Fed agreed to provide financing through JPMorgan for up to 28 days, the bank said in a statement yesterday.

    The Fed acted to prevent the failure of the second-biggest underwriter of U.S. mortgage bonds and forestall a potential market panic as losses by banks and brokers reached $195 billion and stocks plunged for a third day this week.

    “I don’t think they can afford to let Bear go,” said Charles Geisst, the author of “100 Years on Wall Street,” referring to the New York Fed bailout. “At this particular moment in time, it would be a devastating blow to the markets.”

  5. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Fed Efforts Foiled By Banks as Residential Mortgage Rates Rise

    Ben S. Bernanke can’t revive the housing market and the banks are no help.

    The U.S. Federal Reserve cut interest rates five times, pumped $200 billion into the financial system, and yesterday its New York branch provided funds to help rescue Bear Stearns Cos.

    None of that has brought down mortgage rates for residential borrowers, whose success in refinancing or buying would help bolster the U.S. economy. The interest rate on a 30- year fixed-rate mortgage has climbed to 6.37 percent from 5.5 percent since Jan. 24, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association, as financial institutions try to cover $195 billion in mortgage-related losses and save capital for future losses.

    “The mortgage rate isn’t down as much as it should be because the banks are in desperate straits and they need to maintain a larger spread than they normally would,” said Alan Nevin, chief economist with the California Building Industry Association in Sacramento. “The banks need to generate income and the easiest way to do that is to broaden the spread. If they pay 3.5 percent and charge 6 percent, that’s a lot of money.”

    Over the past 10 years, the average spread between 10-year U.S. Treasuries and 30-year fixed-rate mortgages has been 1.75 percent. Last week, the spread was 2.83 percent. That means a homeowner’s mortgage costs are more expensive now than they have been.

  6. bairen says:

    This economy is going down pretty fast.

  7. Baghdad Bob says:

    #6 Nonsense

    bairen, grim, clot, 3b, gary, Bc Bob, and others.

    You are all way to negative. The economy is doing great.

  8. Baghdad Bob says:

    #7 Baghdad Bob,

    What are you talking about? What about all the loans and equity injections to major banks?

  9. Baghdad Bob says:

    Sure a few banks may have lost a dollar or two, but they lost US dollars! US dollars are not backed by gold and silver and are very easy to replace.

    In fact, since money can be created electronically, your green is green. Let me show you.


    So easy isn’t it?

  10. bairen says:

    Won’t printing money create inflation?

  11. Baghdad Bob says:

    #10 No Bairen, there is no inflation

    Sure oil is $110 a barrel, gold is around $1,000, all the other commodities are way up in price. BUT housing, stocks, and bonds are down. This balances out the rise in commodities perfectly to zero.

  12. bairen says:

    #11 Isn’t that like stagflation

  13. Baghdad Bob says:

    #12 no Bairen, you naive child. This is called the goldilocks economy.

  14. bairen says:

    #13 Thanks for clearing that up for me BB.

  15. Baghdad Bob says:

    #14 bairen

    You are quite welcome. I’m willing to assist anyone who asks, as long as they pay me in Euros.

    $4,000 US only get you call girl who is a high school drop out. $4,000 Euros youcan get one who has a Masters, even a Phd during the slow season

  16. lostinny says:

    15 Baghdad
    Are those girls Americans or Europeans?

  17. HEHEHE says:

    Pret’s been awfully quiet. Does he work for Bear Stearns?

  18. grim says:

    From the AP:

    Fed and Rival Bail Out Bear Stearns

    On the verge of a collapse that could have shaken the very foundations of the U.S. financial system, investment bank Bear Stearns Cos. was bailed out Friday by a rival and the federal government. The near-miss raised new alarm about the credit crisis — and whether other big firms might be in jeopardy.

    The rescue came from JPMorgan Chase & Co. and, in an extraordinary step, the Federal Reserve, both rushing to pump new money into the venerable Wall Street firm after its financial state deteriorated so much in a 24-hour period that it threatened to fail.

    Bear Stearns stock lost nearly half its market value, about $5.7 billion, in a matter of minutes, and pulled the broader market down with it. The Dow Jones industrial average fell nearly 200 points.

    If Bear Stearns were to go under, “it has the potential of bringing down the whole market,” said Richard Bove, an analyst at Punk, Ziegel & Co. “This is the crescendo of the crisis.”

  19. Frank says:

    How much does the Bear news haircut NYC real estate prices? Residential and commercial. I think at least 30%

  20. grim says:

    So what comes after crescendo?

    Perdendo – To retire, to fade away
    Morendo – To gradually die

    What is the italian word for “to fall off a cliff”?

  21. grim says:

    I’d love to know who was responsible for dubbing Bear Stearns “too big to fail”.

    Or did JP pull some strings to get the Fed to fund an LBO of Bear?

  22. prestigous gary says:

    What I’m curious to know is at what point in time does the FED stop bailing out every financial entity on the planet? Hedge funds, brokerages, mortgage firms, banks… Who’s next? I still have some mortgage, can you help me out Ben? Should I stop paying and go into default first? Again, if this isn’t moral hazard, then what is? If you supply a backstop for everyone, where’s the risk?

  23. HEHEHE says:

    There supposedly was a huge amount of speculative option buying before that all happened; just like BofA and Countrywide. Will be interesting to know who knew what and when they knew it; I wouldn’t be surprised if the Fed is working deals on the agreement the SEC looks the other way. Anything to avoid the icebergs.

  24. Frank says:

    go JB

    James Bednar has been tracking New Jersey lowballers on his blog, New Jersey Real Estate Report (available at njrereport.com) since mid-2006. Inspired by his own frustrations as a buyer, Mr. Bednar said he wanted to test the conventional wisdom that lowballing “was a waste of time — that it was futile to even attempt it.”


  25. grim says:

    Might be time for another Counter Party!

    From the WSJ:

    Two Projects in Default
    Dog Big Home Builders
    March 15, 2008; Page A3

    Two massive housing developments in Las Vegas, involving several of the nation’s largest home builders, have received default notices on about $765 million in debt, according to one of the partners in the projects.

    John Ritter, chief executive of Las Vegas-based Focus Property Group, says that two joint ventures — involving Focus as well as builders Toll Brothers Inc., KB Home and Lennar Corp. among others — have each missed an interest payment in recent weeks and are in negotiations with lenders.

    The default notices renew concerns about the risks that joint ventures pose to home builders. Many companies created these arrangements in order to spread the cost of buying land during the housing boom. But builders disclose very little about such ventures, stoking investors’ fears that these deals could hurt builders in unanticipated ways.

    Toll Brothers earlier this week said it could suffer “significant” losses if its joint venture partners failed to meet certain obligations, but it would not go into detail about which projects or partners were in trouble.

  26. Clotpoll says:

    baghead (7)-

    Did you receive some kind of bailout?

  27. Clotpoll says:


    Nice stuff on the last page. Whatever is the truth is behind Obama, we can rest assured that he’ll be thorughly probed and tenderized by November. I’m sure Rove and the dirty tricks crew will make time to do a little backchannel black ops on behalf of McCain.

    At an arm’s-length distance that provides suitable deniability, of course.

  28. Mikeinwaiting says:

    CLOT 28 Dirty tricks department on both sides are up & running.So far Obama has had a pass now he gets vetted.If he can’t handle the usual bull in a election I sure don’t want him in the White House.You think it might have been the work of the Clinton faction on this one, perfect timeing.It would have been better for the republicans to let him win the nom & then pull this out of their hat.

  29. njpatient says:

    20 grim

    I think we’ve got to fit ritardando in there somewhere

  30. njpatient says:

    Frank 25
    Mrs. Patient is reading me that NYTimes article about that ridiculous James Bednar character and his ridiculous low balls right now.

    Sounds like a very unpatriotic fellow.

  31. victorian says:

    Lehman Next in Line? Obtains $2 Billion Unsecured Bank Credit Line from 40 Banks

    * Bloomberg: March 14: Lehman Brothers, largest mortgage underwriter in U.S., obtained a $2 billion, unsecured, three-year credit line from 40 banks. “The unsecured facility replaces an existing credit line”; JPMorgan and Citigroup led the effort.
    * Reuters: CDS spreads spiked to 465bp after Bear announcement, most among investment banks.
    * Fitch (via RGE): At the beginning of the turmoil Bear Stearns had the highest toxic waste (“residual balance”) exposure as percent of adjusted equity on balance sheet: BSC = 54.5%; LEH = 53.3%; GS = 21%; MER = 17.8%; MS = 8.3%.
    * Cumberland: Main difference to BS: Lehman generated over 60% of their revenues outside the U.S. in Q4 2007
    * Fahey (Fitch): Lehman Brothers reported Level 3 assets-to-equity of 1.68x in 3Q07 (BSC 1.56; GS 1.84; MER 0.70; MS 2.74: gross notional Level 3 asset value, not netted with derivatives hedges in Level 1 or 2 as reported by other banks)
    * Hedges on Level 3 assets (i.e. “short their own instruments”) produced book gains of $750m at Lehman (largest amount among 5 brokers) but Fitch decided that gains from credit spread widening will not be considered in evaluating operating performance
    –> Gains from structured notes spread widening as percentage of pre tax earnings was 62% at Lehman in Q3; 129% at BS; 7% at GS; -17% at ML; 17% at MS.

  32. victorian says:

    Will my generation ( I am in my late 20’s) ever see economic prosperity?

  33. njpatient says:

    Sitting here working on severance arrangements.

    Don’t tell pret.

  34. victorian says:

    “Unless public money is used on a very temporary basis to achieve an orderly wind-down or merger of Bear Stearns this is another case where profits are privatized and losses are socialized. By having thrown down the drain the decades old doctrine and rule that the Fed should not lend or bail out non-bank financial institutions the Fed has created an extremely dangerous precedent that seriously aggravates the moral hazard of its lender of last resort support role. If the Fed starts on the slippery slope of providing massive liquidity support to non-bank financial institutions that have recklessly managed their risks it enters into uncharted territory that radically changes its mandate and formal role. Breaking decades-old rules and practices is a radical action that seriously requires a clear public explanation and justification. ”

    More at – http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/249737/

  35. njpatient says:

    33 vic

    0.1% of your generation will see VAST wealth.

  36. victorian says:

    #34 – patient, sad to hear that.
    Hope your luck turns and soon. Wish you the very best.

    So, are you planning to move out of NJ?

  37. grim says:

    Will my generation ( I am in my late 20’s) ever see economic prosperity?

    Will they? They already are. It’s so big I’m surprised you missed it.

    You just need to look at your generation from a global perspective, not a national one.

  38. grim says:

    Hope your luck turns and soon. Wish you the very best.

    He is the guy that is doing the firing.

  39. njpatient says:

    37 vic
    grim’s right, but I actually appreciate the sentiment, wouldn’t mind a little luck, and more than likely will move out of NJ in about two years.

  40. victorian says:

    38# – lol, yes i missed the emerging markets generation – they are certainly rolling in the good stuff.
    My cousin back home in India, has 5 offers on the table and he still has a year to graduate from engineering school.

    #39 – Oops! Wish the guys you are firing the very best!

  41. ithink-think@hotmail.com says:


    “Affluenza is a fascinating look at one of the greatest social maladies of our time: overconsumption and materialism.”

    Lots of straw men in the above but yeah, we’re doing alright.

  42. njpatient says:

    41 vic
    They do quite well, actually. It’s when I’m not involved that they generally don’t.

  43. victorian says:

    Would appreciate if anybody can pull up
    MLS# 807197 for me. Am curious about the price it sold for – been UC for a while.

  44. Confused In NJ says:

    If they are serious about correcting the current market problems’ then they have to acknowledge that it was caused by “Economic Terrorism” and place all responsible parties, starting with Alan Greenspan, in our Nato Ally Turkey’s prisons. The prisoners for life need to be remote cameraed to all remaining Financial Institutions, one hour a day, mandatory viewing.

  45. lostinny says:

    For those planning on moving to PA, I have a strange anecdotal. Well I think its strange anyway. Friends of mine live in West Chester. Their property taxes are paid separately from their school taxes. Their property taxes I believe were roughly 2k, school taxes 4k+. And no, they don’t have children but must pay anyway.

  46. njpatient says:

    47 lost

    odd – never heard about that.

    Anyone else know anything about this?

  47. Anonymous ?er says:

    njpatient, you said you’re on the corporate side.

    Do you have any recommendations for workplace litigation, i.e., employee privacy rights, 1st amendment/workplace (but NOT discrimination or harassment).

  48. Ann says:

    Re: Obama stuff from last night, previous page

    I think we can all agree, no matter if we think Wright’s sermons are no big deal or horrendous, that Obama as the Dem nominee has no chance of winning the general now. None. Zip. If HRC gets the nom, she’ll lose too, black voters will stay home. The Dems have done it again. Snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

  49. bairen says:


    Video about desperate owners trying to avoid foreclosure by burning down their houses.

  50. njpatient says:

    50 Ann

    No. We can’t agree.

    That being said, I’m going to take a page from BC Bob’s book and no longer discuss politics and religion on this site, unless there is some direct relation to real estate (pretty unlikely in the case of religion). No more engaging the trolls.

  51. bairen says:

    #52 njpatient

    I will no longer look at this site from work. Don’t want to get sent to HR for some of the things people post

  52. njpatient says:

    49 anony mouse

    We don’t do that sort of stuff – I imagine that’s the sort of thing where a Morgan Lewis might be your best advisor.

  53. 3b says:

    #40 njpatient: Dont leave, prices are coming down,unless you are leaving for other reasons.

  54. njpatient says:

    53 bairen

    Agree. I enjoy talking politics with reasonable and intelligent people with whom I disagree, but some of the fever swamp filth of recent vintage has made this no longer the forum for political discussion. I fill that void elsewhere.

  55. njpatient says:

    55 3b

    Leaving for other reasons. I agree about prices – forget my exact prediction, but I’m thinking at least 20% in real terms over the next two years.

    I work 100 hrs/wk on a regular basis. No way to live, but it’s allowed me to build a bit of a nest egg. I’m going to take that egg where it will go a bit farther, and where I get to name my job and be home for dinner.

  56. bairen says:

    #56 Yeah. I now only look at cnn and it’s links and fool.com while on my lunch.

    I looked at njrereport this week twice during work and thought never again.

    If people stuck to the economy and housing I would look, but when race, sexism,profanity, and other things appear on a regular basis I’m risking punching a one on one ticket with HR.

  57. njpatient says:

    to emphasize: “at LEAST”

  58. njpatient says:

    bairen – what’s your general line of work, if I may ask?

  59. grim says:

    RBS buying Bear? C’mon.

    Can’t we just nationalize it?

    Northern Bear!

  60. Ann says:

    I apologize for the Obama comment, I was just reading through the previous thread. We should stick to RE. Glad someone mentioned the sexism/profanity on here a la Spitzer. That’s can be good to have on your work computer either!

  61. RentinginNJ says:

    Or did JP pull some strings to get the Fed to fund an LBO of Bear?

    Had Bear been able to wait another 2 weeks, they would have been able to bring their crappy mortgages to the discount window on their own. Things got so bad, they couldn’t wait that long.

    The Fed is taking on all of the default risk of the collateral. JP was used as an intermediary to facilitate the transaction because Bear can’t directly approach the Fed just yet and they couldn’t wait any longer.

    JP is also acting as Bear’s clearing broker. I know Bear was placed on our “trade restricted” list on Friday.

  62. njpatient says:

    Nice weather we’re having today.

  63. gary says:

    I have an old 15 inch computer monitor, anybody want it? If not, where can I bring it? Thx.

  64. Randy says:


    “Wages and home values are down,” Reid said, “but prices for everything from health care to tuition to energy are up. Just this week, oil and gas prices reached record highs while the value of the dollar reached historic lows. I hope the president, who has been slow to acknowledge this problem, joins us in recognizing how urgently we need a solution.”

    Bush said he opposed several measures pending on Capitol Hill to deal with the housing crisis. They included proposals to allocate $400 billion to purchase foreclosed-upon and now-abandoned homes, to change the bankruptcy code to allow judges to adjust mortgage rates and to artificially prop up home prices.

    “Many young couples trying to buy their first home have been priced out of the market because of inflated prices,” the president said. “The market now is in the process of correcting itself, and delaying that correction would only prolong the problem.”

    Wow, four more years for Bush!! Something sensible coming from his piehole?

  65. lisoosh says:

    #66 – Agreed. I’ve spent the past 8 years disagreeing with 90% of what came out of his mouth and NOW he suddenly comes out with something that demonstrates a modicum of backbone and understanding.

  66. lisoosh says:

    Clot – Thanks. I frequently think that the political script is rivalled only by that of daytime soaps.

  67. lostinny says:

    66 Randy
    Thats the only sensible thing he’s said in 8 years.

  68. RentinginNJ says:

    Wow, four more years for Bush!! Something sensible coming from his piehole?

    Those are the most sensible words that have ever come out of his mouth. In fact, it’s the most sensible thing any politician has said thus far of the housing crisis. I’m in 110% agreement with him.

  69. Lisoosh says:

    The UK is awash with US news.

    Nice article from the Telegraph:

    “Albert Edwards, global strategist at Societe Generale, said the toppling banks are merely a symptom of a deeper rot. “The banks are not the problem. Nor even the grotesquely leveraged funds. The problem is that an economic bubble financed by ridiculously loose monetary policy is unravelling,” he said.

    “US house prices have a lot further to fall, which will simply crush the global economy. The lesson from Japan in the early 1990s is that the death dance goes on and on and on,” he said.”


  70. grim says:

    “Many young couples trying to buy their first home have been priced out of the market because of inflated prices,” the president said. “The market now is in the process of correcting itself, and delaying that correction would only prolong the problem.”

    I read it, but I can’t believe it.

  71. Wag says:

    Grim (72)- Perhaps an indication, that W is reading njrereport?

  72. Joeycasz says:

    I have an old 15 inch computer monitor, anybody want it? If not, where can I bring it? Thx.

    Good Will or Salvation Army is probably your best bet.

  73. Joeycasz says:


    No way he said that. It’s like that movie “Dave”…

  74. njrebear says:

    20.25 read post #72.

  75. syncmaster says:

    College Towns: Still a Smart Investment

    … college towns have remained relatively stable in this slumping real estate cycle. Students, university employees, and faculty keep apartments filled and form a steady stream of home buyers. And retirees and professionals flock to college towns because they’re attracted to the lifestyle and cultural activities.

    Enrollments — especially at large public universities — are growing as more children of baby boomers (so-called echo boomers) graduate from high school. At cash-strapped public universities, dorm beds are limited and students are often forced to find private housing after freshman year, says Michael Zaransky, author of Profit by Investing in Student Housing (Kaplan Publishing 2006) and co-CEO of Northbrook (Ill.)-based Prime Property Investors, which invests in student housing.

    “It’s a resilient market and seems to be fairly recession-proof,” Zaransky says.

  76. njrebear says:

    here is the link

    President’s Saturday speech


  77. galgon says:


    The meltdown in the US mortgage market has led to record foreclosures and forced thousands from their homes. In few places is it worse than southern California, where the BBC’s Rajesh Mirchandani reports on an extreme consequence of the downturn, but one that some observers fear could grow.

    Forty miles east of Los Angeles, on a patch of waste ground, is the place they call Tent City.
    But one man, who did not give his name, said he and his family were living in Tent City because they were victims of America’s foreclosure crisis. It came down to “feeding my family or keeping the house”, he said, “so I got rid of the house”…

    That has to be one hell of a shock going from “owning” a home to living in a tent. I have a feeling that our elected officials will start using stories like these to justify their bailout of “home owners.” Clearly all of the people living there had other problems besides a subprime mortgage reset. If they cannot afford to find an apartment there is little chance they would have been able to keep their home even at the lowest of interest rates. I am all for helping people like this get back on their feet but a moratorium on foreclosures isnt going to work.

  78. bairen says:

    #60 njpatient I’m now in communications

    Before that I was a stay at home dad/kept man
    while in Sydney on my wife’s expat package.
    before that I had a Series 7 and worked in NY

    What about you?

  79. stu says:

    If this doesnt make you heave about Bear Stearns I dont know what will.

    Bear Stearns’s Cayne Was Playing Bridge, WSJ Says (Update1)

    By Nicholas Larkin

    March 15 (Bloomberg) — Bear Stearns Cos. Chairman James “Jimmy” Cayne was playing in the North American Bridge Championship in Detroit over the past two days, the Wall Street Journal reported.

    Cayne and a partner were placed fourth in a pair’s event on March 13, the newspaper reported yesterday, citing the American Contract Bridge League’s Web site.

    The event took place while Bear Stearns Chief Executive Officer Alan Schwartz held a series of conference calls with company directors to discuss a cash pledge from the Federal Reserve and JPMorgan Chase & Co., the Journal said, citing unnamed “insiders” and people familiar with the matter. Cayne participated in at least some of the discussions, the newspaper said.

    Cayne was playing the game yesterday as the investment bank’s shares plunged, according to an unnamed attendee, the Journal reported, adding that Cayne declined a request to comment.

    Cayne and partner Alfredo Versace finished fourth in a pair’s event on March 13 with a score of 21.94, according to the league’s Web site. The pair dropped to 26th place yesterday, scoring 42.87, the Web site showed.

  80. njpatient says:

    80 bairen

    Corporate lawyer who would love to be a stay at home dad.

    Communications as in radio/tv or as in telephone/cable?

  81. spam spam bacon spam says:

    Look carefully at Bush’s lips… they don’t
    sync with the audible words.

    That’s probably Cheney (where the heck has HE been???) trying to appease the “friends” on Wall Street.

    I cannot believe people voted for this guy.

    I cannot.

  82. bairen says:

    #83 as in reading emails and drafting or responding with form letters. Not too exciting but it’s a 20 minute commute and allows me to spend more time with the family, cook, and learn bad chinese or chinese badly.

  83. lisoosh says:

    Clot – What the bleep is Exit Realty? Foxtons reborn with residuals? The new reincarnation of Herbalife but with houses?
    The absolute bottom of the barrel?

  84. Kelly says:

    Gary #65 –

    Try Craigslist – you can get rid of anything there, especially if it is free. Just curb-alert it if you don’t want to deal with people.

  85. rhymingrealtor says:

    read it, but I can’t believe it

    I heard and could’nt believe but he said it. Just before he said that, he said( and pronounced correctly) in·con·gru·ous. Must have been that extra hour he had to study up.

  86. rhymingrealtor says:


    Exit has the worst reputation in my neck of the woods, anything that comes in with there logo is sure to be either illegal, immoral or wrong, even as far as the math. Its a joke.


  87. rhymingrealtor says:

    Is BC around here today? When I got in from my (no visitor) open house, I saw a huge- I am talking at least 200 people- bar crawl going on, ya know all the Irish and wannabe Irish with shamrock hats, green shirts, painted faces! I’m thinking I might have seen him.


  88. chicagofinance says:

    FYI –
    In response to the charges of being a “Black Hitler”, Farrakhan responded during a March 11, 1984 speech broadcast on a Chicago radio station:

    “So I said to the members of the press, ‘Why won’t you go and look into what we are saying about the threats on Reverend Jackson’s life?’ Here the Jews don’t like Farrakhan and so they call me ‘Hitler’. Well that’s a good name. Hitler was a very great man. He wasn’t great for me as a Black man but he was a great German and he rose Germany up from the ashes of her defeat by the united force of all of Europe and America after the First World War. Yet Hitler took Germany from the ashes and rose her up and made her the greatest fighting machine of the twentieth century, brothers and sisters, and even though Europe and America had deciphered the code that Hitler was using to speak to his chiefs of staff, they still had trouble defeating Hitler even after knowing his plans in advance. Now I’m not proud of Hitler’s evil toward Jewish people, but that’s a matter of record. He rose Germany up from nothing. Well, in a sense you could say there is a similarity in that we are rising our people up from nothing, but don’t compare me with your wicked killers.”

  89. chicagofinance says:

    [edit] “Wicked and false Jews”
    At an NOI-sponsored event in February 2006, Farrakhan provoked accusations of antisemitism in Illinois by stating that “These false Jews promote the filth of Hollywood. It’s the wicked Jews, the false Jews that are promoting lesbiani$m, homose-uality, [and] Zionists have manipulated Bush and the American government [on the war in Iraq]”

  90. chicagofinance says:

    “The same year they set up the IRS, they set up the FBI. And the same year they set up the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith… It could be a coincidence… [I want] to see black intellectuals free… I want to see them not controlled by members of the Jewish community.”

  91. chicagofinance says:

    grim: I think I have two moderated posts

  92. lisoosh says:

    Chi – we know he is a vile nut and spawn of evil. What is the point of posting this?

  93. chicagofinance says:

    trying to repost..

    chicagofinance Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    March 15th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
    l: bear in mind something…..the NXzis wiped out everyone in my maternal grandfather’s family except my grandfather and the Serbs would kXll me for my Albanian blood if they could. Sometimes I feel like the cockroach that survives the extermination. I have a very thin skin for this type of patent nonsense.

  94. chicagofinance says:

    I was defending Michele Obama vehemently several weeks ago about her “finally proud of America” quotes….well not anymore…in this context, they make perfect sense. Both of them have to come out guns blazing with condemnation of Wright and Farrakhan. I want to hear it….I assume it is forthcoming….Obama has no choice….but I want to hear it.

    It matters to NJ RE by the way.

  95. grim says:


    Post an address here the next time, you’ll get visitors.

    I’ll bring the scotch.

  96. Pat says:

    You know, that’s a cheap get-together.

    I’ll bring the squirrel stew. Maybe rabbit this time of year. Lots of abandoned rabbits soon.

  97. Confused In NJ says:

    98. Chi. Getting a tiger to roar for you, won’t change it’s spots, or keep it from eating you.

  98. Marv says:

    re: PA taxes

    Nothing out of the ordinary with the way PA taxes are paid, they are just different from NJ where we pay quarterly. In PA you pay County & Township taxes June 30 and School taxes Oct. 31. The school tax has always been much higher than the other tax bill. In FL you pay your whole tax bill at one time, December 1. I’ve lived in all 3 places and although the details may be different, you can count on your tax bill always increasing!

  99. Frank says:

    Where’s the recession in NJ? SUV traffic is out of control these days, everyone has one. Retail stores are packed, low priced homes are selling fast, jobs are plentiful. So where’s the recession I ask?

  100. JLB says:

    “It’s a horrible situation, very gory. There’s blood in the street,” said Lt. Gov. David Paterson, who takes over as governor for disgraced Eliot Spitzer on Monday.

  101. Frank says:

    re Tent City in LA, 15 million of illegal immigrants can make it in this country and these people can’t, weeee, weeee, weee get a grip of your self people and look at the Mexicans, they have no problem getting a home and they don’t even speak English.

  102. Frank says:

    How can he talk about blood? the guy can’t see.

  103. Pat says:

    CF…don’t be so disappointed in O. Nobody’s perfect. Does the context of a minister experience truly change the person and what they do? This post is not meant to spark a holy war. I’m trying to help CF.

    Do you truly believe religious habit contains or proves the essence of a person’s mind?

    In my experience, as well as the folks I talk to, he’s just the same as anybody else who belongs to a church. Pretty boring, if you talk to the folks who’ve listed to him now over in Bucks. A gaping yawner.

    Church? You go, you listen, deposit money, leave. Somewhere in there, or maybe the whole time, you think about which chores you’re doing after church and what you’re cooking and what you’re going to do about the latest crisis at work. Rinse & Repeat every seven days. You are who you are. You do what you can to contribute to the charities or activities that mean something to you.

    I’m not judging the guy. For 15 years when I was younger, I attended a church where the priest castigated abortion evildoers during the last 5 minutes of most homilies. (I always looked around for them in church and couldn’t figure out which ones did the abortions and which ones had those abortions.)

    I personally never would have considered an abortion, but not because a priest says it’s a sin. It’s because I always think there’s a better way, an alternate – a solution. I prefer to problem-solve. Well..for me, it’s a habit of trying to land on my feet. To prove my worth in creativity and survival.

    So I don’t think it’s a sin.

    I went back to the religion. We got married in Vegas, but our priest remarried us after. Our baby was baptized there. What does that make me? An Unbeliever? The worst kind of hippocrite?

    Do you truly believe Obama holds those views or was formed by them? Especially considering the age at which he began attending the church?

    At worst – a hippocrite. There are many, many hippocrites among us.

  104. JLB says:

    “Sitting here working on severance arrangements,”
    “I work 100 hrs/wk on a regular basis”
    oh enough of this “fever swamp filth of recent vintage”

  105. Sybarite says:


    You underhanded propagandist. You took that quote COMPLETELY out of context. That was said in refernce to a horrible crane accident that happenend and killed 4 people in manhattan.

  106. bi says:

    Re: president. if everything are equal, i would prefer the person with better experience and achievements. ask youself, are you making better decision than you were 10 years ago? mccain’s experience in national security is superb. he was the strongest voice in congress for surge in irq, which is very unpopular that time. if he could line up a running mate with strong executive experience, it would be a strong ticket. in current economic situation, i think romney is the best choice since he was a governor and was conisdered guru in economy.

  107. bi says:

    re: obama. what made obma rise is words. he has no related exeperience or achievements to back it up. if he got nom, you won’t be surpriced that the other party will shoot him down by using his words against his words. it is a fair game.

  108. mr potter says:


    I genuinely like the guy but not his politics. I also thought he was good and decent since he kept Jesse Jackson and Sharpton far away. Unfortunately, it appears that his minister or as some say his mentor is worse.

  109. bi says:

    112#, do you know who is co-chair of his campaign? jesse jackson jr.

    >he kept Jesse Jackson and Sharpton far away.

  110. rhymingrealtor says:


    I hope my making light of what’s said of what a pastor says, was not taken as I do not think what he says is wrong. My feeling is what the man’s pastor says about subjects is not always the parishoner’s thoughts. I think other more eloquent writers here ( Pat , Lisoosh) said it better. I don’t believe everyone who goes to church, baptize, and confirm their children are believers. There are many aspects of church, such as social, ritual and some people even use it as a networking tool for their business. I understand your point. I would not vote for someone because I liked their pastors points of view or their church,or their religion, and I would not -not vote for someone because I did’nt like their pastors points of view or religion. Barring of course Mr. Obama saying he beleives everything he says.
    I’m going to work on my writing skills.

  111. mr potter says:

    bi…did not know that – I hope he wins the nomination, will be a cakewalk for McCain

  112. rhymingrealtor says:


    Next empty house, its a deal, however I would prefer one of those ridge zinfadels clot has mentioned. Last time I did scotch my age ended in a teen and it came up in such a way that won’t be forgotten )-:


  113. Cindy says:

    (97) Chicago

    “I feel like the cockroach that survives the extermination.”

    I have felt guilty for being alive pretty much every day of my life since I was 32.
    (Portugese/catholic heritage)…guilt is inbred. My twin sister died suddenly, instantly of an aneurysm in August of 81.
    Why her – not me? No Serbs after me but every time I get a headache I wonder…Hum.

    I cannot pretend to know what it is like to hear these vile comments when so much of your family was lost to Na&i rule. But I
    do know it’s the pits carrying around a bunch of cr@p -and it does create a “thin skin.” I hear you –

    (98) If it helps any, Wikipedia (under Jeremiah Wright) is currently carrying a repudiation by Obama of Wright’s comments (updated just yesterday.)

  114. njrebear says:

    from CR
    … bankers have now come to the conclusion that a deal must be done by Monday …
    If there’s no deal Bear Stearns will have to file for bankruptcy, executives said.

    14K employees.

  115. Everything's 'boken says:

    re 111
    McCain is doomed.

  116. Cindy says:

    (117) Sorry grim – I’m in moderation – that has never happened before – ooppss..

  117. Frank says:

    why do you care about presidential politics? in NJ it does not matter who you vote for.

  118. Jonnyboy says:

    Gawd I’m soooooo sick of hearing that “risk to the whole financial universe” line. Fed’s been faithfully trotting that one out ever since S&L, later LTC, etc., etc.

    So much for free market. Funny how Wall st. cries for hands off in good times and hand outs in bad.

    [18] Fed and Rival Bail Out Bear Stearns

    On the verge of a collapse that could have shaken the very foundations of the U.S. financial system, investment bank Bear Stearns Cos. was bailed out Friday by a rival and the federal government…

  119. Frank says:

    Bear is gone. Ohh well.

    “In the meantime, the Bear debacle is a huge blow to New York City and its Metro-area economy where most of Bear’s workforce lives. Many will be out of work. Bankers and other execs have lost fortunes since many were paid in Bear stearns stock.”


  120. Confused In NJ says:

    Do you truly believe religious habit contains or proves the essence of a person’s mind?

    I wonder how many members of the Muslim Church have blown themselves up since 2001, to eliminate infidels, in the name of their God?

    I wonder how many Catholic IRA members have eliminate Protestants over the years and vice versa.

    I wonder why our society worships the killing of the innocent unborn, yet rebels against the execution of heinous murderers.

  121. gary says:

    The volume of existing-home sales is expected to hold steady through late spring, with a gradual recovery during the second half of the year as the mortgage situation improves in high-cost areas, according to the latest forecast by the National Association of Realtors®.

    Lawrence Yun, NAR chief economist, said many buyers have been waiting for higher mortgage loan limits. “The higher loan limits for both FHA and conventional loans will increase consumer choice and provide greater access to lower interest rate mortgages in high-cost regions,” he said. “Therefore, a notable rise in home sales can be anticipated in the second half of the year.”

    Bullsh*t. You’re a lying sack of sh*t and not one of the 200,000 people who read this blog believe a word you say except for the ones who guzzled the p*ss-tasting koolaid you continue to peddle.

  122. mkfinancial says:

    A wells fargo underwriter told me they are moving to the following standards

    700 FICO or higher 90% LTV
    660-700 85% LTV
    everything else 80% or less
    DTI 36% max.

    These seem really tight. Anyone else hearing the same?

  123. Pat says:

    Confused, sorry you felt the need to respond to my words for CF.

    I can only console you with this thought: behaviors you mention regarding “Muslim” and IRA have nothing to do with the teachings of their religions. Therefore, using symbolic logic, you have proved my point. A person’s religious habits do not define the essence of the person (else they’d no act in such a way).

    Your final point is a generalization and cannot be addressed in the context of a religion or a person’s essential thought.

  124. bi says:

    Re: home sales in my area. one home came to the market in the same development as the house i sold later january. it was listed 2% above my listing price. now it was gone again. on the other side, i saw some some houses with not-so-desirable location still sitting there even after a few price reductions. now i came to know the location is so important when the market becomes soft.

  125. bi says:

    Re: Bear Stearn and finacials. BSS will report quarterly earnnings monday. LEH, GS and etc. will follow in this 4-day trading week. Tuesday, fed will cut rate by 0.5%, 0.75% or 1%. if your stomach is big and strong, i guess financials are good stuff to take.

  126. gary says:

    If there’s no deal Bear Stearns will have to file for bankruptcy, executives said.

    I stipulate that every senior executive return their 2007 bonuses to be distributed to associate level staff who held retirement funds consisting of company stock. Failure to do so will result in criminal charges for deception and fraud.

  127. njrebear says:

    Tell me you didn’t miss a heart beat when you read post #122.

  128. bi says:

    To me bear is a over blow. today’s barron’s runs an article on bear. it mentions its prime brokerage alone worths almost the same as the current market value. bear used to be the most conservative one on the street. my last visit to bear was in 2005 and i found the culture was changed a little bit from my first visit in 1997.

  129. gary says:

    Still it is not clear what JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon will do if his company JPMorgan Chase buys Bear; he hates the bank and doesn’t need traders. The likely scenario, sources say, it that he gets rid of most everything except prime brokerage and clearing operations. He also apparently likes the Bear building which is around the corner from the less elegant Chase headquarters.

    They’ll be husked and ravaged like a visagoth attacking an ear of corn. BURP!!!!

  130. njrebear says:

    I hope you bought some at 180, 120, 60 and now at 30.

  131. bi says:

    he certainly hopes BSC will open at $15 monday morning so his $30 offer will look like as white knight.
    >Still it is not clear what JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon will do if his company JPMorgan Chase buys Bear;

  132. bi says:

    133#, if i did like that, i would be gone long time ago

  133. Richie says:

    Good thing I turned down that bear job last summer!


  134. njpatient says:

    “Next empty house, its a deal, however I would prefer one of those ridge zinfadels clot has mentioned.”

    My favorite also

  135. Clotpoll says:

    soosh (87)-

    The absolute bottom of the barrel. Basically a legalized pyramid scheme.

  136. Clotpoll says:

    syb (109)-

    jlb is a pig. Not even funny, like duck or bi.

    We gotta freeze this guy out now and cut him off at the knees.

  137. Clotpoll says:

    kl (116)-

    You just need better Scotch, that’s all…

  138. Clotpoll says:

    patient (137)-

    The Geyserville hits the spot…every time. Any of the Rosenblum stuff is nothing to sneer at, either.

  139. Cindy says:

    Clot – Patient -My friends treat me – My favorite – Carla’s Vineyard Rosemblum 2002 if memory serves me. (100 year-old vines) I have heard them refer to the zins as the “3 R’s” – Ravenswood, Rosenblum and Ridge. I’m headed to a 60th Bday party tonight – I’ll try to pay attention to what they serve. Sometimes they serve a Lodi CA zin.
    I’m told to watch out for the “chalky” taste that comes from some of the soil Napa/Sonoma. Also, they line some vineyards with eucalyptus and it has been known to influence aroma. Truth be told, I just drink what they serve. Last weekend they lined up some different vintages of Tapestry and compared years. By that point in the evening – I was a spectator.

    Same friends go to the “World of Pinot” at Shell Beach every year. (Last 7th and 8th) I cannot afford to join them. But my mom lives in Rhonert Park and my sis in Cotati near Sanat Rosa. I believe Geyserville is just to the north. We will have to check that out. Is Geyserville the Ridge you refer to?

  140. Cindy says:

    Well, messed up in 144. I’m headed to Seattle early in the morning so I won’t be posting anything I try tonight. I’ll just feel lucky if I get to the airport by 5:00.

  141. njpatient says:

    85 bairen
    Sounds like a great gig to me.

  142. lisoosh says:

    Chi – trying to answer your post without writing a freakin’ novel and that is pretty much impossible.

    Our experiences are different. I spent a lot of years living in an area on the edge of sanity. Watching victims turn into perpetrators and perpetrators turn into victims, and listening to everybody excuse themselves for their behaviour by prostrating on the shield of their victimhood. Eventually it makes you numb.

    It’s all one person trying to get one up on the other guy by using percieved injustices to justify their own practice of injustice. It unfortunately is part of the human gene; we see it on the macro level and on the micro too – in every school and every office. On some levels people are sh*t. Period.

    Does that mean it shouldn’t be fought? No. But it does mean that no matter what the experience we have to temper our own sense of victimhood to be absolutely sure that we don’t become like the thing we are fighting against.

  143. njpatient says:

    Clot, we should have talked more at the last GTG
    Rosenblum is a real close second for me – Rockpile Rd and Annette’s Reserve are wildly good (although the most recent Cuvee, which used to be my everyday drinker, hasn’t held up).
    Ridge – like the Geyserville, Paso Robles, Late Picked Pagani – really, I’ve never had a bad bottle of Ridge. The cabs are equally good.

    Ravenswood never quite did it for me.
    Cindy, we’ll be out by you next spring; taking Mrs. Patient to wine country for an anniversary present.

  144. Cindy says:

    (147) lisoosh – Wow. You have such a healthy perspective. I too feel you have to reject feeling victimized or it will eat you alive. (Always working on the guilt/boundaries deal though.)

    The thin skin – the pool of sadness that gets tapped into regarding certain subjects is a feeling. And sometimes – we cannot control how we feel. – nor should we…that is when we become numb. IMHO – we need to feel it – express it – then move on…(So we can get hit by some other yet unknown train wreck looming down the road a bit.

    (148) Patient – See, California is good for something! I rarely get to Rhonert Park because I’m always traveling to see my grand kids. My mom usually comes here to visit – but you enjoy Napa/Sonoma. Since my mom and sis are in the Sonoma area – they passed on this area saying “If you want auto parts go to Napa – if you want wine, come to Sonoma.”

  145. njpatient says:

    Cindy – I lived out there for a year. Was too young for the wine then.

  146. chicagofinance says:

    l & others: I want to be clear….I don’t give a whit what the Obamas beliefs are….but I do expect that they outwardly condemn some of the extreme views of their community. My reasoning has more to do with sending a message to the broad populace about what will and will not be tolerated. Silence, pandering, or qualified statements are tacit approval for these people.

    Bear in mind, I am still more than willing to vote for Obama regardless of this nonsense. I hope I am perceived more as someone openminded rather than accusatory….

  147. Confused In NJ says:

    The NJ Legislature is toying with the idea of Universal Healthcare. The initial funding would be $2.5B from Blue Cross/Blue Shield to allow them to become “For Profit Death Care Providers”, rather than current “Not For Profit Health Care Providers”. The state would require everyone to prove annually with their tax return, that they are properly enrolled in “Death Care” or face punitive action. At least Obama views Mandatory Death Care as unacceptable in America. Guess he realizes that the Drugs from China are adulterated and the state shouldn’t Mandate Death by Prescription, like occurred recently with Heparin.

  148. Confused In NJ says:

    Governor Byrne & Kean Sunday Star Ledger Dialogue, sounds like this site:

    BYRNE: I talked to somebody recently who wants to move out of the state because he doesn’t want to keep working his tail off paying somebody’s huge pension.

    KEAN: I think we both feel that public employees are owed a decent pension. But when state employee benefits and pensions go way above what the rest of state residents can expect, it’s too much, and we can’t afford it.

    Too bad Corzine doesn’t see what these intelligent ex Governors see.

  149. lisoosh says:

    chicagofinance Says:
    March 16th, 2008 at 10:51 am
    “l & others: I want to be clear….I don’t give a whit what the Obamas beliefs are….but I do expect that they outwardly condemn some of the extreme views of their community. My reasoning has more to do with sending a message to the broad populace about what will and will not be tolerated. Silence, pandering, or qualified statements are tacit approval for these people.”

    I think sending a specific message to the BROAD populace about what will and will not be tolerated is a good goal. Seeing as how his candidacy appears to be about change/unity/bridging differences focusing on extremism of all stripes in all communities would be the best policy, including those within the African American community. I am loathe to force one person to act as a representative of one single group and to take responsibility for all of their excesses.

    I can see now in the excitement of the campaign (for them), the focus is on one specific community. If he becomes the nominee he will need to adjust the tone to representing everybody. I get the feeling he is capable of that, probably more than his wife, principally because his experience and ethnic background are much broader – exactly the thing which made the AA community not exactly embrace him in the beginning.

  150. Cindy says:

    Follow -up – today’s Derby News…
    Market Extra – Fresno Bee pg. D4 -Stocks

    March 16, 2008 $1,000.00 Derby
    “Bad news for the credit markets produced another solid week for gold. Wheat also surged. The U.S. government projected smaller-than-expected stocks of domestic wheat along with rising overseas demand. A profit shortfall at an insurer bruised stocks in the health care industry.”

    “A weekly update on what $1,000 invested on Jan. 1 would be worth today. Investment returns are based on the performance of Dow Jones stock, bond and commodity indexes, which include reinvestment of dividends, where applicable.

    $1000 inv. 1/1 today’s worth 1-wk.change
    Wheat $1,317 $96
    Sugar 1,213 17
    Gold 1,189 30
    Heating oil 1,181 61
    Cotton 1,142 -28
    Crude oil 1,142 47
    Soybean 1,104 -45
    Lat. Amer. stocks 1,007 8
    Unleaded gas 1,006 0
    Corporate bonds 1,002 0
    Oil & gas stocks stocks 944 13
    Utilities 898 1
    European stocks 895 4
    Mid-cap stocks 891 -4
    Large-cap stocks 882 -4
    Small-cap stocks 880 0
    Health care stocks 870 -26
    Asian stocks 860 -23
    Lean hogs 845 -48
    financial stocks 839 -10
    Technology stocks 826 1
    telecom stocks 788 -19

    Lean hogs? I swear – that’s what it says!

  151. Cindy says:

    (151) Chicago –
    “I hope I am perceived as someone openminded rather than accusatory…

  152. Confused In NJ says:

    Pat Says:
    March 15th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
    Confused, sorry you felt the need to respond to my words for CF.

    I can only console you with this thought: behaviors you mention regarding “Muslim” and IRA have nothing to do with the teachings of their religions.

    You evidently don’t understand that many muslim religious leaders sanction these types of activities and it certainly is one of their teachings. They actually have religious schools set up to teach it.

  153. Future RE Investor says:


    Bear Agrees to SellItself to JPM for $2 a share. 93% discount to Friday’s close

Comments are closed.