Thu 24 Apr 2008
From the WSJ:
The Brighter Side of Housing
Amid Downturn, ‘Unaffordable’ Is Within Reach
By JAMES R. HAGERTY
April 24, 2008; Page D1
And now for the heartwarming side of the housing bust: It’s helping some people buy homes that they couldn’t afford a couple of years ago.
Michelle Dudley for years commuted 50 miles each way to her job as a civil servant in Anaheim, Calif., because she and her husband, Don, didn’t feel they could afford a home near her office. This week, though, the Dudleys moved into a three-bedroom house in Anaheim that they recently bought for $390,000, down from the original listing price of $445,000 in November. Similar homes in the area were selling for as much as about $600,000 two years ago, says Erin Eckert, an agent for Redfin, an online real-estate brokerage that represented the Dudleys.
Still, many potential buyers are holding out for better deals. The Wall Street Journal’s quarterly survey of housing-market conditions in 28 major metro areas points to continued downward pressure on prices in much of the country.
…
Kevin McCleary, a computer-security consultant, remained a renter through the housing boom even though he could afford to buy, because he believed prices were reaching unsustainable levels. In October, though, he and his fiancée finally decided to buy a foreclosed home in Herndon, Va., and negotiated a price of about $443,000. The same home sold in 2005 for $645,000. “I don’t believe we hit it at the perfect time,” Mr. McCleary says. On the other hand, he says, “we were just tired of putting our lives on hold.”During the boom, home prices rose far faster than incomes. Home prices as measured by the S&P/Case-Shiller national index shot up 74% in the six years through 2006, while median household income rose 15%. (Neither figure is adjusted for inflation.) Now prices in many areas are adjusting back toward more affordable levels, a process that could take several years.
…
Economists at Goldman Sachs say home prices are likely to level off by late 2009. They also point to improving affordability. Goldman’s chief U.S. economist, Jan Hatzius, says the share of a typical family’s income needed to pay mortgage payments on a median-priced home averaged about 17.5% from 1993 to 2003, before jumping to 26% in 2006. The figure now has fallen to 20% and is likely to keep declining as home prices fall.Mr. Hatzius estimates that average U.S. home prices have fallen 15% since the second quarter of 2006 and projects they will fall an additional 10% before stabilizing late next year. But he also sees a risk that home prices will fall further, particularly if the foreclosure problem proves worse than already expected.
Goldman estimates that foreclosures will add 1 million to 1.5 million homes to the for-sale market this year, compared with less than half a million a year before 2007.
April 24th, 2008 at 6:03 am
From Bloomberg:
Credit Suisse Posts SF2.15 Billion Loss on Writedowns
Credit Suisse Group, Switzerland’s second-biggest bank, reported its first loss in almost five years on 5.3 billion francs ($5.2 billion) of writedowns linked to deteriorating credit markets.
The net loss totaled 2.15 billion Swiss francs in the first quarter, compared with a 2.73 billion-franc profit a year earlier, the Zurich-based bank said in a statement today. Credit Suisse fell as much as 1.5 percent in Swiss trading after the loss exceeded analysts’ estimates.
April 24th, 2008 at 6:07 am
From Reuters:
Foreclosures to affect 6.5 mln loans by 2012-report
Falling U.S. home prices and a lack of available credit may result in foreclosures on 6.5 million loans by the end of 2012, according to a Credit Suisse research report on Tuesday.
The foreclosures could put 12.7 percent of all residential borrowers out of their homes, Credit Suisse analysts, led by Rod Dubitsky, said in the report. That compares with a foreclosure rate of 2.04 percent in the last quarter of 2007, they said, citing Mortgage Bankers Association data.
The new forecast includes 2.7 million subprime loans whose risky characteristics sparked the worst housing market since the Great Depression. Subprime foreclosures, on top of the 676,000 already in or through the process, will hit 1.39 million in the next two years alone, an upward revision from the 730,000 predicted by Credit Suisse in October.
Falling home prices have made an increasing number of U.S. homeowners more vulnerable to default, they said. Nearly a third of subprime borrowers owed more than their home was worth at the end of last year, and that figure will double to 63 percent in 2009, they said.
…
“These factors, coupled with snowballing negative psychology, are contributing to a rapid rise in foreclosures,” the analysts said.
Credit Suisse expects home prices will fall by 10 percent in 2008 and 5 percent in 2009, before rebounding.
April 24th, 2008 at 6:11 am
From Dow Jones:
Housing Slump Continues To Ravage Home-builder Earnings
Two of the nation’s largest home builders after Wednesday’s market close reported quarterly losses as housing market weakness continues to weigh on the beleaguered industry and hopes for a recovery this spring.
Sector bellwethers Ryland Group Inc. (RYL) and Pulte Homes Inc. (PHM) were out with first-quarter results after the closing bell.
Ryland, based in Calabasas, Calif., reported a first-quarter loss of $29.3 million, or 69 cents a share, compared with a loss of $32.2 million, or 58 cents, a year ago. Revenue for the three months ended March 31 fell to $416.2 million from $711.1 million.
…
The company said new orders in the first quarter fell 27.8% to 2,159 units from 2,989 units a year ago.
Analysts note that Ryland has cut its prices more aggressively than peers in a bid to clear speculative inventory.
…
Meanwhile, Pulte reported a net loss of $696.1 million, or $2.75 a share, compared with a net loss of $85.7 million, or 34 cents a share, in the same period a year earlier.
Results in the latest period were hit by $663.6 million of pre-tax charges from inventory impairments and other land-related charges. Revenues dropped 23% to $1.4 billion in the first quarter, versus a year ago.
…
“The difficult housing environment continued to erode during the first quarter of 2008,” Pulte Chief Executive Richard Dugas said in a statement. “Buyer demand for new homes continues to be soft, home prices remain under pressure, and overall buyer confidence is weak.”
…
The poor results added to the growing pile of evidence that the key spring sales period is off to a lackluster start again this year. A report earlier this week said existing home sales fell 2% in March and home prices are down almost 8% in the last year. Simply, there are still too many homes for sale on the market, observers say.
April 24th, 2008 at 6:12 am
From the WSJ:
Foreclosure-Relief Plan Gains
By MICHAEL R. CRITTENDEN
April 24, 2008; Page A4
WASHINGTON — A House panel Wednesday approved $15 billion in loans and grants for local governments to purchase the growing number of foreclosed homes throughout the country.
The House Financial Services Committee voted 38-26 in favor of the bill, part of a broader package of housing legislation being pushed this week by House Democrats to address the housing crisis. Earlier Wednesday the panel voted to provide legal protection in certain circumstances for mortgage servicers that work with borrowers facing foreclosure.
Passage came despite the opposition of some panel Republicans, who argued that using federal funds to buy foreclosed homes could encourage foreclosure.
“I don’t think we ought to be incentivizing foreclosure,” Rep. Spencer Bachus, (R., Ala.), said.
Committee Chairman Barney Frank, (D., Mass.), said that provisions of the bill, including a requirement that purchased homes be at least 60 days into the foreclosure process, would prevent abuse. More importantly, he said, lawmakers need to do more to help local governments dealing with eroding tax bases and maintaining foreclosed homes.
“Cities are being badly hurt and this is the only vehicle proposed that goes to the aid of the cities and counties,” Mr. Frank said.
The $15 billion would be split equally between loans and grants, which would be distributed to states based on their percentage of nationwide foreclosures, median home price and other factors. Government-run entities and not-for-profit organizations would be eligible for the money, which could be used for the purchase, rehabilitation, and resale or rental of the housing.
April 24th, 2008 at 6:20 am
From Bloomberg:
New-Home Sales in U.S. Probably Dropped
New-home sales in the U.S. probably fell in March to the lowest level in 13 years, while overseas demand lifted orders for durable goods, economists said before government reports today.
Purchases of new homes dropped 1.7 percent from the prior month to an annual pace of 580,000, the fewest since February 1995, according to the median forecast in a Bloomberg News survey. Orders for products meant to last several years probably rose in March for the first time in three months.
A jump in subprime mortgage defaults and record foreclosures have worsened the real-estate slump and led banks to limit lending. Growing exports are mitigating the damage on American factories from the collapse in residential construction and credit crisis that may cause the economy to contract.
“It’s highly likely the U.S. economy is in a recession, and housing is certainly at the center,” said Avery Shenfeld, a senior economist at CIBC World Markets Inc. in Toronto. “This year is going to be very soft.”
The Commerce Department will issue new-home purchase figures in Washington at 10 a.m. Estimates in the Bloomberg survey of 75 economists ranged from 560,000 to 602,000.
April 24th, 2008 at 6:35 am
30% off 2006 prices in California? I thought houses only go up?
/ sarcasm
I wonder how long before we see that in NJ? I’m already seeing list prices down 20%.
April 24th, 2008 at 6:56 am
Reading this as I make my wife a grande one pump triple iced no whip lowfat white mocha.
Starbucks Lowers 2008 Forecast as Sales Slide
Starbucks on Wednesday warned of weaker-than-expected earnings for the second quarter and full year as it struggles to reignite U.S. growth in the “weakest economic environment” in its history, sending its shares down 11 percent.
“The wheels have really come off of this train,” RBC Capital Markets analyst Larry Miller told Reuters, noting his surprise at the warning. “It’s amazing how fast business has derailed. If sales are down mid-single digits, that is a rapid erosion.”
Chief Executive Howard Schultz said in a statement that “the current economic environment is the weakest in our company’s history, marked by lower home values, and rising costs for energy, food and other products that are directly impacting our customers.”
April 24th, 2008 at 6:59 am
I hear the black market for stolen Starbucks not-for-sale syrups/flavorings is hot hot hot.
April 24th, 2008 at 7:05 am
Syrup and coffee, two words that were never meant to be paired.
April 24th, 2008 at 7:05 am
grim (7)-
I can remember telling agents of mine who struggled- when times were good- that the first thing they should do is cut out the daily Starbucks.
I’m kicking myself for not having shorted the living daylights out of this company. Shoulda seen this coming.
April 24th, 2008 at 7:06 am
Shore (9)-
Kinda like gin and juice.
April 24th, 2008 at 7:07 am
BC, is there a CME or NMX market in almond syrup?
April 24th, 2008 at 7:18 am
From Bloomberg:
Libor to Rise as Banks Stay Wary, Derivatives Signal
Interest-rate derivatives are signaling that the rate banks charge for loans in dollars in London may rise further as financial institutions remain reluctant to lend.
…
“The correction in Libor has not completely happened,” said Bulent Baygun, head of interest-rate strategy in New York at BNP Paribas Securities Corp., a unit of France’s largest bank. “Given the dynamics that have persisted in the past few weeks, it looks like there could be a little bit more room for an increase.”
April 24th, 2008 at 7:21 am
Syrup and coffee, two words that were never meant to be paired.
Sambuca and espresso?
April 24th, 2008 at 7:39 am
(205) Thurs. 9:21 P.M. lostinny
“And btw, what happened to Cindy? I haven’t seen her posts lately?”
I’m here, lostinny. but since….
“There’s quite a bit of talk about things people know nothing about, yet have no problem voicing their opinions.”
I’m a reader. I rarely have anything coherent to add to the conversation. I check the posts in the early AM (I’m up at 4:00 and off to work at 7:00 - brain dead in the evenings…)I’m teaching school and unable to check the day’s events so I’m content with being a reader and learning what I can.
April 24th, 2008 at 7:50 am
looks like Hov has the stopped building in
the Clifton/W.paterson complex,.
oh,but you can still spend 500k in the place
April 24th, 2008 at 7:50 am
Barbara Corcoran on Today Show Real Estate 101 segment just said that you need to hold on to your house purchase for at least two years just to recoup the closing costs.
…. Housing apocalypse is near.
April 24th, 2008 at 7:54 am
So much for replacing those low-paying finance jobs with high-paying food service jobs. What happens if we lose the food service too?
From the WSJ:
Restaurants Feel Sting
Of Surging Costs, Debt
In Slump, Chains
Shut Sites, Cut Jobs;
No Free Sour Cream
By JEFFREY MCCRACKEN and JANET ADAMY
April 24, 2008; Page A1
When you serve 1.1 million eggs a week, even a tiny price increase can pinch. So when egg prices tripled for casual-dining restaurant chains Bakers Square and the Village Inn over the past two years, the result was especially painful. Pricier eggs and other foods added $9 million in annual costs. This month, the chains’ owner, Denver-based Vicorp Restaurants Inc., filed for bankruptcy-court protection.
Vicorp won’t be the last. The $558 billion restaurant industry is hitting rough times, squeezed by many of the same woes affecting other sectors of the economy: tightfisted consumers, scarce credit and surging commodity prices. Adding to the pressure is a big jump in the minimum wage starting this summer, which will boost wages by 12% in some states.
That’s sent the industry into its worst slump in decades. Many chains have scaled back expansion plans or cut costs by skimping on things like extra sauce and free sour cream. Some are shuttering sites and laying off workers. Private-equity firms, which plunged into the business earlier this decade using gobs of borrowed money, are now especially vulnerable as those debts come due.
…
The slowdown has broad implications for the economy. The industry employs 13.1 million people, making it the nation’s third-largest employer, behind the U.S. government and the health-care industry, according to the National Restaurant Association, a trade group. Many of those jobs are held by the poor and immigrants who have few other options for work.
…
Restaurant analysts say they don’t expect a swift rebound this time. Part of the reason is the leveling off of women entering the work force and an increase in the quality of prepared food offerings at grocery stores, both of which have led consumers to eat more at home. And with many consumers looking to cut back, casual dining is one of the first things to go.
Restaurants overexpanded in recent years, too. There were 524,286 eating and drinking places in the U.S. in 2006 — a 45% increase from 1990, according to the National Restaurant Association. The U.S. population rose 20% during that period, according to census figures.
In part because of the glut, overall same-store sales at about 70 restaurant chains were flat or down in the fourth quarter, says Wachovia Capital Markets. Dips are rare in a business that has seen growth in all but two of the past 26 years, according to Wachovia.
April 24th, 2008 at 7:55 am
Kettle
Brazil Oil Finds May End Reliance on Middle East, Zeihan Says
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aBUoYKhu7PWk&refer=home
April 24th, 2008 at 7:55 am
“Kevin McCleary, a computer-security consultant, remained a renter through the housing boom even though he could afford to buy, because he believed prices were reaching unsustainable levels.”
Another wannabe.
April 24th, 2008 at 7:56 am
Cindy
The same reason why I mostly just lurk. Unless of course Clot and I engage in our colorful conversations.
Good to see you’re still around though. I think its good to hear whats happening in other areas of the country. While I live right next door to NJ, I don’t see listing prices coming down and I don’t see units that have been on the market for months lowering their prices either. If people think NYC is immune to this housing crash, Staten Islander’s must think Tony Soprano himself will protect them all.
April 24th, 2008 at 7:59 am
# 15
We have devalued our currency allowing others to buy our assets (some call it investment in America, but an investment is when one builds a plant or such and adds to our productive capacity) thus removing control over those assets from American. At the same time that devaluation has sapped our economic strength overseas.
Instead of being the credit extender, we find ourselves red-white-and-blue top hat in hand seeking loans to keep the government afloat and Wall Street banks from sinking.
Families confuse having useless “stuff” with having wealth, and have descended deeper into debt with each passing month.
When the housing bubble “created wealth” for families they used the opportunity to leverage themselves even deeper into debt for accumulating more usless (and if useful, of limited lifespan, stuff).
With a huge national debt, huge state debts, growing national defecit, growing state and local defecits do we cut spending on the “nice to haves” in order to maintain the “must haves?” Of course not, and we delude ourselves into believing that a decrease in the rate of increasing spending is a “spending cut.”
We have lost our grip on reality and instead of trying to get it back we amuse ourselves with insipid television and overpriced concerts and sporting events (and associated team jerseys, etc.) when the time could be better spent in pursuit of financial stability and the family money could be better spent saving for a rainy day or digging the family out of debt.
We reflexively speak of our “greatness” forgetting that we have for many years ceased to behave in the manner that made us great. It is as if by repeating the mantra it will stay true: greatest economy, best health care, greatest schools and universities, most patents, longest life span, yadda yadda. More and more we resemble the once-great athlete who, failing to continue working out and pushing himself to stay on top, gets fat and lazy and bores everyone with stories about his past amazing performances — all the while missing the fact that others have caught and even surpassed him.
We still have an opportunity to recover but the time to act is not unlimited. I don’t know whether RE will drop to where many of us here think it will, if only because folks from overseas will do what American’s used to do and snap up land (overseas to them, here to us) as vacation places, investment properties (rentals can provide nice passive income) so that when the dollar does recover they can make a killing at that end as well.
If we do not insist on an honest discussion, and strong action, from our elected officials and allow ourselves to be distracted by the bread and circuses, we will have earned the inevitable decline to second-rate status. In our parent’s lifetime folks used to say “The sun never sets on the British Empire.” When the sunset came, it was hard and fast.
April 24th, 2008 at 8:01 am
I think the Chinese stock players, the Japanese housewives, the Beardstown Ladies and the stuck in the mud flippers/investors of the RE bubble, should arrange a GTG and compare notes. Maybe in an establishment on the Gold Coast. One room for the NJ Vuture Fund GTG and another room for the experts.
“It was the biggest party in the short history of the Chinese stock market – a rise of 500 per cent in the country’s top indices in Shanghai and Shenzhen, millions of new investors joining every day, champagne corks popping regularly as the latest once-creaking state enterprise unveiled its new sleek self for public listing.”
“But China’s stock market bubble has burst, leaving 150 million share investors waking up to their worst hangover ever. There are reports of people picking stocks at random, using lucky numbers or consulting fortune-tellers to buy shares.”
“Whatever shares I bought, they gave me a handsome return then. With the yields on stocks, I earned enough in just a couple of months to decorate my new home and filled it with an air-conditioner, LCD television and other things I needed,” she said. Now she faces a major loss.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/chinas-bubble-bursts-814073.html
April 24th, 2008 at 8:04 am
“BC, is there a CME or NMX market in almond syrup?”
Clot,
I hear that WS is structuring a new product with food ingredient tranches. After all, there is a vast world now rioting. WS wants to tap into this.
April 24th, 2008 at 8:08 am
JB [13],
Libor. HMMM? Sounds like the credit cruch is alive and well. Getting worse day by day.
April 24th, 2008 at 8:19 am
(21) lostinny
Oh,residential prices are falling here for sure. I’d say the 30% off of 2005 highs is accurate.
The problem is we were so overbuilt here in the Valley that the limited number of qualified buyers are jumping aboard the great deals the builders are offering. Talk here is still 08′ or 09′ for the best deals on foreclosures. There are some autions for foreclosures but so many more are expected to hit the market in the coming months.
Our biggest issue here in California is the economy. We have huge gas taxes (so many refining rules.) ,,I pay $3.89 a gallon for reg. unleaded….and food…and we grow it here! The one bright spot is Agricultural land. From an article this weekend:
Almolds - an acre $9,000 - 15,000 - stable
Pistacios $8,000 - 15,000 - stable
Tree fruit $9,000 - 14,000 - moderate
Small acreage parcels (less that 40 acres -$10,000 to $20,000.)”Farmland is generating such good returns that farmers are holding on to it - and expanding when they can.”
“High demand for crops grown in the Valley and a declining dollar, which is generating more exports, are helping prop up prices, even though deisel, fertilizer and other farm costs are climbing.”
City governments, school districts etc. have all had their budgets cut.
April 24th, 2008 at 8:23 am
Anyone know more about MLS 2496098?
I believe it might have sold. I also think its initial OLP was $340,000 but quickly reduced to $319,000.
Thanks in advance!
http://tinyurl.com/4o3ahm
April 24th, 2008 at 8:26 am
Why? WHY? WHY? is this cape listed 475k in Brigadoon? It’s not 2005!!!
http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?ctid=28999&mxp=30&typ=7&sid=8ff16253f2814a438b009c81a3df44ce&pg=3&lid=1095483497&lsn=25&srcnt=53#Detail
When you can get splits and colonials in good shape in the same town for 429 to 449
http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?ctid=28999&mxp=30&typ=7&sid=8ff16253f2814a438b009c81a3df44ce&pg=3&lid=1096862416&lsn=22&srcnt=53#Detail
April 24th, 2008 at 8:29 am
Grim, #28 in moderation.
April 24th, 2008 at 8:30 am
Joey,
287 Berkley Ave
Purchased: 3/10/2005
Purchase Price: $310,000
MLS# 2377961
OLP: $369,000
LP: $359,000
DOM: 179
Withdrawn
MLS# 2442000
OLP: $349,000
LP: $338,000
DOM: 84
Withdrawn
MLS# 2496098
OLP: $339,900
LP: $319,000
DOM: 48
Active
April 24th, 2008 at 8:37 am
Fresno Bee yesterday..
“In Fresno County, 31.7% of all resales in March were bank-owned.” In Stockton and San Joaquin County, 71% of all existing home sales were houses repossessed by banks. The percentages in neighboring Stanislaus and Sacramento counties were 62% and 54% respectively.”
“The vast number of foreclosures is affecting competing home values. a neighborhood where more than half of the houses are foreclosures will experience a 5% to 10% decline in property values beyond what is typical in other areas.”
“Banks are finally doing the right thing,” said Don Scordino, president of the Fresno Association of Realtors. “They are bringing down the price to where it needs to be. A year ago, the most unrealistic sellers in the market were the banks.”
April 24th, 2008 at 8:41 am
bairen [28],
That split for 439K. Not too bad?
April 24th, 2008 at 8:41 am
Thanks Grim! My wife was walking the dog last night and saw people moving some furniture and boxes in and out of the house. Maybe the current owners have already purchased a new home and are still trying to sell this one…hmmm
April 24th, 2008 at 8:42 am
#31 Cindy
Love this quote “Banks are finally doing the right thing,”.
About 6 years late Donnie boy.
April 24th, 2008 at 8:42 am
#28
Houses like that just make the correction take that much longer. It will never sell for that asking price, it’s ridiculous.
April 24th, 2008 at 8:45 am
U.S. FIRST-TIME JOBLESS CLAIMS DROP SHARPLY IN LATEST WEEK
April 24th, 2008 at 8:46 am
BC, is there a CME or NMX market in almond syrup?
NYMEX cleared M 08 almond syrup futures $8.50 @ $8.55 1,000 contracts up
April 24th, 2008 at 8:47 am
#32 BC Bob,
That’s what we thought. I really thought there was nothing in Westfield for less then 500k last spring except for some real dumps in the 480 to 499 range. Now there are a few nice updated houses below 450 and a real nice 3/1 colonial for 375k.
I’m thinking I either need to work in NYC for us to make it here, (and move to Westfield/Cranford) or we need to join Mitchell and bail out of NJ. 2 kids under 5 is a killer with daycare.
April 24th, 2008 at 8:49 am
From CNN:
Backlash grows against the housing bailout
Many Americans want no part of a government-funded bailout for troubled mortgage borrowers.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/21/real_estate/bailout_backlash/index.htm?postversion=2008042315
April 24th, 2008 at 8:49 am
From the AP:
Durable goods orders fall for third straight month
Durable goods orders fall for third straight month, the longest stretch since 2001 recession
Orders to factories for big-ticket manufactured goods fell for a third straight month in March, the longest string of declines since the 2001 recession.
The Commerce Department said Thursday that demand for durable goods dropped by 0.3 percent last month, a worse-than-expected performance that underscored the problems manufacturers are facing from a severe economic slowdown. The last time orders fell for three consecutive months was from February to April of 2001, when the country was sliding into the last recession.
April 24th, 2008 at 8:52 am
(34) barien
It appears that we have a bigger glut of foreclosures here than many places (except maybe Nevada and Florida.) It took a huge glut for banks to FINALLY drop prices.
April 24th, 2008 at 9:10 am
15:
“Translation: I speak Paul Harvey.”
April 24th, 2008 at 9:12 am
11-
Mr. Snoop Dogg would disagree with you.
“Laid back, with my mind on my money and my money on my mind.”
April 24th, 2008 at 9:17 am
I wonder how this works:
We put an offer in last week on REO house. This week we got an answer - bank took First offer they recieve (by somebody), and they are going with that offer.
They said, they are not considering any other offers at the time??
The house is not under contract yet, but they are not taking any more offers… is it normal?”?
Is it just it takes them over 3 weeks to even process one offer and they do not want to process more than 1 at a time?
P.S. I do not really want that house, just wondering? The most attractive part of it was the price on it.
April 24th, 2008 at 9:19 am
Shore #22-
Agree.
April 24th, 2008 at 9:23 am
“need to work in NYC for us to make it here”
Go for it. Earning New York $$$ and paying New Jersey real estate costs is a great arbitrage.
I worked in New Jersey until I realized I could double my comp straight away plus have more upside in a similar job in New York. I wasn’t the only one - many of my New Jersey colleagues made the same move.
New Jersey employers thing they’re doing you a favor by giving you a 4% raise each year. Everybody gets the same raise, like the government. Performance doesn’t matter. That’s why you see New Jersey pharma companies filled with 50 year old guys. All the young talent became frustrated and left.
Contrast that with the how New York firms paid workers during the past several years.
April 24th, 2008 at 9:26 am
#46 -
MY wife and I both work in NYC, live in Queens (Astoria - REPRESENT), and are looking at possibly purchasing in either Cranford or Westfield near the end of ‘08.
Can you explain the numbers behind your post, in a little more detail. It would be very helpful.
Thanks.
April 24th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Al,
Don’t bother trying to analyze it, there are simply too many variables that you aren’t privvy to (like the terms of the other offer).
April 24th, 2008 at 9:36 am
http://stopthehousingbailout.com/
April 24th, 2008 at 9:38 am
19 HEHE
both fields are certainly significant finds, however lets put things in perspective
These numbers put in perspective what Tupi represents globally, at its peak the field will produce less than half a percent of the world oil production. Even if the higher estimate of 8 Gb is confirmed, the field’s reserves represent 14 weeks of world oil consumption.
we will have to wait for real #’s on the Carioca find, but assujing that the press release in representative of the actual field, then:
Carioca is 4 times the size of Tupi an if we do a very basic extrapolation then Carioca represents 2% of world oil production at its peak production rate and the total field would represent 56 weeks of global supply.
Once again, significant find, but the proof is in the pudding. Look at Thunder horse to see how reality often does not match with the hype
April 24th, 2008 at 9:54 am
# 50 “the proof is in the pudding”
Ket,
It is actually “putting,” not “pudding.”
April 24th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Kettle,
I agree. They’ve yet to get a drop out of any of them and their depth etc isn’t going to make anything easy. Time frames the guy suggests seems optimistic. I just thought it was interesting from a military standpoint. Today’s reality is our military is basically being used as the Brinks service for the oil flow throughout the world. We could see a large amount of budget savings if it were to happen.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:00 am
New homes sales below expectations
April 24th, 2008 at 10:01 am
new homes sales down 8.5%,…..Bwahahahaha
yes - prices are not down in NJ, simply because nothign is trading. Price discovery needs stuff to change hands…..
April 24th, 2008 at 10:01 am
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=720203325&play=1
My heart bleeds. Last week I saw a $6.5 million beachfront villa south of Palm Beach that was REO. At least they had a 100′ blue-water-capable yacht to escape to, at least until that gets taken.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:01 am
From MarketWatch:
U.S. March new-home sales plunge 8.5% to 526,000 annual pace
U.S. March new-home sales weakest in 17-years
U.S. March new-home sales much weaker than 577,000 expected
U.S. new-home sales down 36.6% in past year
U.S. March new-home supply on market 11 months, 27-year high
April 24th, 2008 at 10:02 am
[22] Ramen.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:06 am
HEHE
good points, also consider that brazil is a rock solid government/country compared to the middle east. Although the other issue is that as global oil supply peaks and internal oil demand increases countries with oil are going to be exporting less and less of it. An advantage with the middle east is that they need food, as they cannot grow enough for their own population. Brazil may be sitting on the jackpot if they are smart. They are capable of growing enough food for their own population and they have large potential reservoirs of oil. if they are smart, they will sell some, but like the saudi recently announced, sit on a large majority of it as a future investment.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:09 am
51,
dont know if my sarcasm meter is working today, but it actually is “pudding”. “the proof is in the pudding” is a derivative of The proverb, “The proof of the pudding’s in the eating” which itself dates back to about the 1600’s.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:09 am
From Bloomberg:
New-Home Sales in the U.S. Plunged More Than Forecast in March
Purchases of new homes in the U.S. plunged more than forecast in March to the lowest level in almost 17 years as stricter loan rules and falling prices caused buyers to hold off.
Sales dropped 8.5 percent to an annual pace of 526,000, the fewest since October 1991, from a 575,000 rate the prior month, the Commerce Department said today in Washington. The median sales price slumped 13.3 percent from the same time last year, the most in almost four decades.
…
Economists forecast new home sales would drop to a 580,000 annual pace from an originally reported 590,000 rate the prior month, according to the median estimate in a Bloomberg survey of 75 economists. Forecasts ranged from 560,000 to 602,000.
…
Sales were down 37 percent from March 2007.
Purchases dropped in all four regions, led by a 19 percent decline in the Northeast.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:09 am
Go for it. Earning New York $$$ and paying New Jersey real estate costs is a great arbitrage.
I don’t believe there is an arbitrage opportunity here. NJ real estate is expensive compared with other markets. A big factor is our proximity to Manhattan.
Our Proximity to Manhattan and the Manhattan job market has been fully factored into the NJ housing market, as evidenced by higher prices in the areas with the easiest commutes.
An arbitrage opportunity would mean that NJ RE is undervalued and would be expected to rise as people come to understand what a great deal living in NJ and commuting to NYC is, bid up NJ prices and thus close the arbitrage opportunity (as happened to all arbitrage opportunities over time). Since prices are falling, this is unlikely.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:10 am
57
may you be touched by his noodly appendage and live forever in the paradise of stripper factories and beer volcanoes!
April 24th, 2008 at 10:11 am
#22 Are you trying to tell me my 6,832 DVDs are worthless? What about by 3,412 CDs? My Timberlake furniture? Our idea of low brow is shopping at Brooks Brothers or Jones NY on sale.
/ sarcasm
What’s sad is I do know people who have thousands of DVDs, designer furiture and clothes, eat out almost every meal, yet do not contribute to their IRAs or 401ks because they don’t have the money.
WTF?
April 24th, 2008 at 10:13 am
“U.S. March new-home sales weakest in 17-years”
[56],
It’s starting to unravel. When the 1st major HB goes under, the boots come out of the closet. When the 2nd one follows, the laces get tied.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:15 am
“Go for it. Earning New York $$$ and paying New Jersey real estate costs is a great arbitrage.”
Pret, please explain how this is an arb play?
April 24th, 2008 at 10:16 am
SHore 15,
“hip hip hurray”,
That leads us to the question of whether the american public and politicians are willing to make the comfort and luxury sacrifices that are needed. We are certainly capable of it. but like the smoker with lung cancer who is capable of quiting, we most likely will not.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:17 am
Dear Realtors,
I would like to get your take on the new home sales numbers. I’m not talking about the regular posters here, I mean the ones lurking on this site from Weichert, Realogy, etc. I await your professional analysis with great anticipation.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:19 am
gary,
The talking points memo hasn’t been distributed yet. But rest assured, in this environment of low interest rates and abundant choices, it most certainly is a great time to buy.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:20 am
#eCONomists are wrong 99% of the time, the other 1% they got lucky.
With increasing supplies and lower demand I believe we have reached, or are about to reach the tipping point. I’m starting to see some houses priced more realistically.
I’m not trying to buy at the bottom, I just want to buy a decent house in a good town for 2.5 to 2.8 x our gross income. If that happens, we’ll stay in NJ, if it doesn’t happen by next Spring I’m pretty sure we’re going to bail out.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Renting,
Good observation about my loose use of the term arbitrage.
My point is one can live in a place like Hoboken, have a similar commute to work as somebody who lives in Manhattan, and spend 1/2 as much on housing.
Housing may feel expensive in this state, but it isn’t for people earning big bucks in the New York financial industry, where wages are the highest in the country.
Given the access to high paying New York jobs, New Jersey is a great bargain compared to places like Boston and San Francisco which have higher housing costs but fewer high-paying jobs.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:21 am
From the article and I said this maybe a few weeks back we should see more buyers coming out thinking the drop is a good time to buy. I don’t believe there is a massive group on the sideline waiting to buy but there are those from 2005 who will be. I certainly think inventory will grow as we go into spring/summer. Feds drop a half point and I think it will cause a little buying to occur and a lot of refinancing.
We all agree its not rock bottom with a looming recession, excessive inventory of homes for sale, few more sub prime resets on the way, and uncertainty that the gov bailout will do nothing more than just delay the inevitable. But some people will see this as a time to buy even if they lose a few percent over the next year or two.
If long term is in the equation then they start living in a house this year instead of next year and think about 10 years down the road. Those who think they can get rich quick will be in for a dose of reality.
The bad is should they run into trouble in the next maybe 1-4 years they may not be able to recoup what they put in.
I say the feds drop the interest rate a good measure for 3-6 months and let those who are going to buy buy and those who need to refi and can refi. After that your on your own.
I’m not for the government buyout because it will just get flooded with scammers like hurricane Katrina. If I believed the Govt could determine who really would benefit from it then I would be for it but they are too quick to cut a check and it will go to scammers. Scams > Those in Need
April 24th, 2008 at 10:22 am
The CNBC realty gal stated that the cancellation rates are not in these numbers. Did I hear that correctly ? Could this be even worse ?!
April 24th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Interesting - I know a lof of people who actually lives in one of NYC borough’s and commute to work to NJ…
Once you consider something other than manhatten, premium NJ towns all of the sudden lose its appeal.
Actuall explanation - one of my colleagues living in Brooklyn, and all he can get for his house right now is about 450K… He said he can not afford comparable house in NJ in decent train town… Taxes here are higher as well.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Cancellations are never included in these numbers, this is not new.
Here is the Census Bureau position:
http://www.census.gov/const/www/salescancellations.html
April 24th, 2008 at 10:26 am
grim,
Ahhh… I see. Well, I’m sure all that pant up demand is just ready to burst. But, just to be sure, let’s see what the professionals tell us.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Gary [67],
The market shows signs of stabilizing, we are dancing along the bottom. With all the choices available and lower prices we feel this is the best time, in the last decade, to buy. The fed is continuing to lower rates. You want to take advantage of this and buy before rates become a burden. Right? Also, there is pant up demand and past history indicates that RE doubles every 10 years. That pos cape, now 500k, will be 1M, in 2018. Furthermore, there are indications that Trenton is embarking on constructive, long term structural changes. Therefore we feel that property taxes will not be restrictive, going forward.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Given the access to high paying New York jobs, New Jersey is a great bargain compared to places like Boston and San Francisco which have higher housing costs but fewer high-paying jobs
housing in Boaston and SF: check your data - actuqally housing in boston surburbs right now is quite a bit cheaper that NJ surburbia. IN SF withing 40 minted drive from GOOGLE campus - prices are still raising. Butonce you get away from that you can get very nice 2000+ sqft houses for 350K or below.
Where do you get this in NJ - which City?? They are built in the last 20 years and far superior to 350K cape cods in NJ.
Also IN SF your heating bill - non-existant, and they are actually have prop 13 to at leats control taxes.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:29 am
pretorius,
May I ask, what area of the country are you originally from? No agenda, I’m just curious.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:30 am
“Once you consider something other than manhatten, premium NJ towns all of the sudden lose its appeal.”
Al, I agree. I live in this state because it provides access to good jobs in New York.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Al, yes, probably LA is better example than Boston.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Gary, I lived in a bunch of places growing up. Most of it was spent in New England.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:33 am
BC Bob [76],
Bingo. You do realize that somebody in the industry is doing a cut and paste on your thread to be placed into a memo for distribution, right? :)
April 24th, 2008 at 10:34 am
pretorius,
Thanks.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:37 am
#177 bairen from yesterday.
Great time to go. I know a few people who did move there and love it. One of them did have bad allergy problems living in TX and they wound up moving over to Florida. In the end it worked out because he got double promoted and makes a lot more coin now despite losing a lot on moving.
I think Texas is really nice but going anywhere outside of where your at is a looooong drive. I lived in Killen, Tx for a while but a lot has changed since then.
Texas is stealing a lot of Atlanta people. Know a few people from Atlanta that went to the Houston area. Amazing how 4 years ago many of my friends are now scattered up the US now. None moved out west.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:37 am
# 63 THe DVSs and CDs are not worthless. The make great coasters (especially if a CD of the Coasters), hot plates, and rearview mirror art.
Ket,
Re. putting and pudding, it seems there are two sayings. I stand humbled and corrected. The one in fashion in my experience has been “The proof is in the putting,” or the proof is in doing, not saying.
As for your question posed in 66, my fear is that we will not and that we will become the next France — a former world-striding power that failed to act before slipping and now goes around with a chip on its shoulder trying to remind people that it once mattered and insisting that it should have influence beyond what it deserves just because of its past status. Our house needs a new roof and the levy is unable to hold back the flood waters and we have politicians and citizens fussing about what fabric to put onthe couch and whether the paint in the hallway is the right color.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:38 am
got this from a buddy! thought it was pretty funny that needed sharing!!!!
‘We in Denmark cannot figure out why you are even bothering to hold an election. On one side, you have a bitch who is a lawyer married to a lawyer, or a lawyer who is married to a bitch who is a lawyer.
On the other side, you have a true war hero married to a woman with a very large chest who owns a beer distributorship.
Is there really a contest here?’
gives us a prespective of what they are thinking!!!
CAIBC
now back to RE….
April 24th, 2008 at 10:39 am
To post #85 LOL
April 24th, 2008 at 10:41 am
#85 too funny.
LOL.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Yikes! levee, that is.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:44 am
The October Surprise: Cindy sends a free six-pack to every voter. And a poster of herself to every male voter and every female Melissa Ethridge fan
April 24th, 2008 at 10:45 am
85
Nice!
April 24th, 2008 at 11:03 am
http://www.dhcr.state.ny.us/ohm/apps/hsgdevls/hsgdevls.asp
If you are middle class just live in NYC in a mitchell lama coop. Who needs NJ?
April 24th, 2008 at 11:04 am
How do you appease a spouse with an overactive nesting impulse that has stopped speaking to you since the home they fancied went under contract before you had a chance to see it?
April 24th, 2008 at 11:09 am
prtraders2000 Says:
April 24th, 2008 at 11:04 am
How do you appease a spouse…..that has stopped speaking to you….?
You say this like it’s a bad thing…
April 24th, 2008 at 11:10 am
#92 prtraders must be a newlywed.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:15 am
From the AP:
New home sales plunge to lowest level in 16 1/2 years
Sales of new homes plunged in March to the lowest level in 16 1/2 years as housing slumped further at the start of the spring sales season.
The median price of a new home in March, compared with a year ago, fell by the largest amount in nearly four decades.
The Commerce Department reported Thursday that sales of new homes dropped by 8.5 percent last month to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 526,000 units, the slowest sales pace since October 1991.
The median price of a home sold in March dropped by 13.3 percent compared with March 2007, the biggest year-over-year price decline since a 14.6 percent plunge in July 1970.
The dismal news on new home sales followed earlier reports showing sales of existing homes fell by 2 percent in March. Housing, which boomed for five years, has been in a prolonged slump for the past two years with sales and home prices falling at especially sharp rates in formerly boom areas of the country.
For March, sales were down in all regions of the country, dropping the most in the Northeast, a decline of 19.4 percent. Sales fell by 12.9 percent in the West, 12.5 percent in the Midwest and 4.6 percent in the South.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:17 am
I’m waiting for John’s answer.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:20 am
92 prtraders2000
Remind her that you and she formed a family and that you are committed to taking care of that family. The “permanence” of owning a house pales in comparison to your commitment to her and your child on the way. Whenever you buy a house it will be a nice milestone in your life together, but just a part of it.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:20 am
“grim Says:
April 24th, 2008 at 10:19 am
gary,
The talking points memo hasn’t been distributed yet. But rest assured, in this environment of low interest rates and abundant choices, it most certainly is a great time to buy.”
You forgot to add the pant up demand
April 24th, 2008 at 11:28 am
How do you appease a spouse with an overactive nesting impulse that has stopped speaking to you since the home they fancied went under contract before you had a chance to see it?
If you find the answer, please share it.
My wife was pretty good for a while, but her patience is starting to wear thin. When I explain how things are still way overpriced, I just get the “I don’t care, I just want a house”. I even offered to rent a SFH, but she doesn’t want to move twice.
The one thing I do have going for me is that she is picky. When we look at open houses in our price range, she tends to get disgusted and leaves me alone for a few weeks.
The problem with this strategy is that some homes that aren’t complete dumps are starting to fall within the upper end of our range. So now she is getting encouraged and growing anxious.
Trying to convince her to hold out for a better deal on a place that is acceptable is a much tougher sell than holding out because everything in our range is cr_p.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Trying to convince her to hold out for a better deal on a place that is acceptable is a much tougher sell than holding out because everything in our range is cr_p.
I had to do my own market analysis and show to my wife that last year houses sold in october/september netted about anywhere from 15K-30K less than comparable ones in the spring time.
I asked her: how long it takes us to save 15K?? 30K?? I suggested wating till fall, and after that deciding if we are staying in NJ - if we are staying - we will buy a house, if we are leaving - than we just rent untill next summer
(I will be fully vested in all company’s benefits in about a year - which means leaving now i will be abandoning about 20K in various retirement funds…)
Still not an easy proposition, espetially with 11 month old baby… My observation though her nesting urges are very strong during spring ans slowly die-off during summer/fall. Winder - easy time.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Age old issue. Woman are more emotional and rationalizing the purchase issue sometimes takes time. So lay out your rational reasons for not buying now w/ a detailed display of the soundness of renting or how expensive housing is relative to renting. Than hit her up with the emotional appeal of having a debt burden and servicing the mortgage knowing that it costs more to rent. Sure tell her moving is a pain in the arse, but appeal to her how much more painful moving is when you are foreclosed out of your home. That emotional argument should seal the deal. It worked for me. Didn’t buy 2 years ago, now living in a 2BR apt and with 2 young kids. My wife has bought into the program and we won’t start looking until next year.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:46 am
#92 prtrader: With all due respect. the silent treatment is an insidious form of toture, and it is in my opinion emotional abuse.
I would not stand for it,and if she engages in this kind of abuse, it will only get worse as time goes by.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Rent
Sounds like we’re in the same boat. My problem is that she is finding homes in our price range, but they are 1.5 hrs from my job. For me waiting a little longer means shortening the commute to something bearable.
Ray - good perspective. Thanks.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:52 am
# 92 Drown your sorrow in beer and televised sports.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:53 am
I think bribing the bribe may be an option.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Hanging out at a bar and chatting-up women who do not attempt emotional blackmail is another option.
April 24th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Who bails out the fed?
“WASHINGTON (AP) — Battling to relieve stressed credit markets, the Federal Reserve has provided a total of $360 billion in short-term loans to squeezed banks since December to help them overcome credit problems.”
http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/22/news/economy/fed_credit.ap/index.htm?postversion=patrick.net
April 24th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
108 The printing press and hyperinflation.
April 24th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
“How do you appease a spouse”
[93],
Tell her the front door serves two purposes; coming and going.
April 24th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
ERA Van Syckel Agency offices here on Rt 22 Westbound in Bridgewater has a changeable marquee along the bottom of their agency sign that’s on the front lawn of their office…
It says something like “The Time to Buy is Now!”
Except, the marquee is at the BOTTOM of the sign and the grass has overgrown it…
Maybe it’s supposed to be a subliminal message… ?
(at any rate, you can see they “forgot” to call Juan’s Lawn Care. “sign” of the times…)
April 24th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Sweden has socialism but NJ has meatballs
http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mulshine/2008/04/sweden_has_socialism_but_nj_ha.html
Critics of Gov. Jon Corzine often accuse him of trying to turn New Jersey into a Swedish-style socialist state. Even a moment’s reflection shows this is not quite accurate.
When one thinks of loyal party members being paid overtime to charge their phones, for example, the comparison that comes to mind is not modern Sweden but the old Soviet Union. The same is true of the tens of millions spent on schools that were never built, the no-show jobs in Trenton and so on.
As for the Swedes, I’ve long suspected that they have been unjustly maligned by the comparison to the Corzine crowd. Earlier this week, I got a chance to test out that theory.
…
On the way, we compared Sweden to New Jersey, which has almost the same number of people. It turns out that unlike us Jerseyans, the Swedes get a lot in return for their tax money: Free medical care, free university education, five weeks’ annual vacation and so on. In return for all that, the Swedes pay a high level of taxes, Eskil said, but most feel they are getting a good return on their money.
The government takes about 45 percent of his paycheck, Eskil told me. At first, that sounds like a lot. But then I started adding up all the different taxes I pay to stay planted in the Garden State. And when I told Eskil about the $23,000 property tax bill one Star-Ledger editor pays on an average home in Montclair, the look on his face was every bit as grim as if he’d just come out of an Ingmar Bergman movie.
And when I told him that public employees in New Jersey can retire at 55, he was again surprised. In Sweden, public workers have to work till 65, just like the people who pay their salaries, he said.
…
As we toured [Ikea], I was filled with admiration for the Nordic efficiency of the whole scheme. And the same holds true for cars. Not too long ago, New Jersey had three auto plants. Now we’ve got zero. Meanwhile, the Swedes continue to sell Saabs and Volvos to New Jersey residents who are glad to get them.
In the area of education, the Swedes are also ahead. Eskil was amazed to hear about our urban schools with per-pupil costs of $20,000 a year. He was even more amazed that many of those schools are so bad that many parents in those towns pay tuition for their kids to go to private schools. That wouldn’t happen in Sweden. Sweden has school vouchers. In Sweden, the purpose of education is to benefit the public. Here in New Jersey, the purpose of education is to benefit the public employees.
The same holds true for every other “service” provided by our government. Sweden has socialism for everyone. New Jersey has socialism for public employees. The rest of us get the bill. That’s the real comparison, and New Jersey does not come out on top.
April 24th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
I’m in the same boat as prtrader and rent. In fact, after reading Rent #100, I thought maybe I was schizophrenic and my other self had posted that.
Every time my wife and I begin to talk about housing now, we end up arguing after 5 minutes, and drop the topic. It’s a real sore point, that will remain so for the foreseeable future. We’re stuck in a crap SFH rental with the lease ending shortly, and I have this rotten feeling we will be in the crap now-overpriced SFH rental another year.
April 24th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Mr. Oliver #47,
I worked for a couple of companies in New Jersey. One of them had an fancy HR operation that got the company in the rankings for things like best places for women to work, best work-life balance, most respected company, best training programs, and on and on. They recruited brainiac grads from best schools all over the country. The only reason I got hired there is I evaded the normal HR process.
This company really did have great training programs. They even paid for grad school. My friends and I were leaving at 3:30 every day to do masters degrees at NYU and Columbia.
$50,000 feels like good $ when your 21. But $60,000 doesn’t feel like much when you’re in your mid-20s, read about Wall Street bonuses, pay more attention to what housing costs, and your qualifications equip you for a job paying a lot more in New York. In addition, if you do good work for a New York investment firm, they raise your comp a lot more than 5%. So people I worked with in New Jersey left in droves to work in New York. Everybody traded slightly less job security for a lot more $$$$ potential. Nobody regrets it. Those HR people recruited and trained a lot of talent, but they forgot to pay them what they were worth.
New Jersey housing valuations partly reflect the influence of New York’s job market, but – unlike Westchester, Fairfield, and Nassau – also reflect New Jersey’s growing tax burden and diminishing telecom and pharma presence. For less than $500,000, you can get a nice home in Cranford which has a genuine town center and a train station, although it would be annoying to change trains in Newark every day. That’s affordable for a lot of people who work in New York, and I don’t think you could get that type of deal in a comparable Westchester or Nassau town.
That’s what I mean when I say there’s a New Jersey housing arbitrage.
April 24th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
NAR holds an emergency press release to address to New start numbers for March and it’s chief economist says”The market shows signs of stabilizing, we are dancing along the bottom. With all the choices available and lower prices we feel this is the best time, in the last decade, to buy. The fed is continuing to lower rates. You want to take advantage of this and buy before rates become a burden. Right? Also, there is pant up demand and past history indicates that RE doubles every 10 years. That pos cape, now 500k, will be 1M, in 2018. Furthermore, there are indications that Trenton is embarking on constructive, long term structural changes. Therefore we feel that property taxes will not be restrictive, going forward”
(Sarcasm off)
April 24th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Can anyone recommend a good home inspector in lower Westchester, NY?
I’m easy to panic about everything health related. I want to make sure if we spend all that hard earned money for an overpriced house at least I can sleep well and don’t need to worry about hidden mold, asbestos, radon, lead-paint etc…
April 24th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
BC,
Who bails out the fed?
IMF
April 24th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Sweden has soh-shill-ism (can’t use the real word) but NJ has meatballs
http://tinyurl.com/6474o3
Critics of Gov. Jon Corzine often accuse him of trying to turn New Jersey into a Swedish-style s-oh-shallist state. Even a moment’s reflection shows this is not quite accurate.
When one thinks of loyal party members being paid overtime to charge their phones, for example, the comparison that comes to mind is not modern Sweden but the old Soviet Union. The same is true of the tens of millions spent on schools that were never built, the no-show jobs in Trenton and so on.
As for the Swedes, I’ve long suspected that they have been unjustly maligned by the comparison to the Corzine crowd. Earlier this week, I got a chance to test out that theory.
…
On the way, we compared Sweden to New Jersey, which has almost the same number of people. It turns out that unlike us Jerseyans, the Swedes get a lot in return for their tax money: Free medical care, free university education, five weeks’ annual vacation and so on. In return for all that, the Swedes pay a high level of taxes, Eskil said, but most feel they are getting a good return on their money.
The government takes about 45 percent of his paycheck, Eskil told me. At first, that sounds like a lot. But then I started adding up all the different taxes I pay to stay planted in the Garden State. And when I told Eskil about the $23,000 property tax bill one Star-Ledger editor pays on an average home in Montclair, the look on his face was every bit as grim as if he’d just come out of an Ingmar Bergman movie.
And when I told him that public employees in New Jersey can retire at 55, he was again surprised. In Sweden, public workers have to work till 65, just like the people who pay their salaries, he said.
…
As we toured [Ikea], I was filled with admiration for the Nordic efficiency of the whole scheme. And the same holds true for cars. Not too long ago, New Jersey had three auto plants. Now we’ve got zero. Meanwhile, the Swedes continue to sell Saabs and Volvos to New Jersey residents who are glad to get them.
In the area of education, the Swedes are also ahead. Eskil was amazed to hear about our urban schools with per-pupil costs of $20,000 a year. He was even more amazed that many of those schools are so bad that many parents in those towns pay tuition for their kids to go to private schools. That wouldn’t happen in Sweden. Sweden has school vouchers. In Sweden, the purpose of education is to benefit the public. Here in New Jersey, the purpose of education is to benefit the public employees.
The same holds true for every other “service” provided by our government. Sweden has s-oh-shallism for everyone. New Jersey has s-oh-shallism for public employees. The rest of us get the bill. That’s the real comparison, and New Jersey does not come out on top.
April 24th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
shore 85
both of our saying are likely derived from the original phrase from the 1600’s…. a regional think maybe?
April 24th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Arby’s owner buying Wendy’s for $2.34 billion stock deal
http://tinyurl.com/6xgtq3
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — After two past rejections, the owner of Arby’s shaved roast beef sandwich restaurants is buying Wendy’s, the fast-food chain famous for its made-to-order square hamburgers and chocolate Frosty dessert, for around $2 billion.
Triarc Companies Inc., which is owned by billionaire investor Nelson Peltz, said Thursday it will pay about $2.34 billion in an all-stock deal for the nation’s third-largest hamburger chain started in 1969 by Dave Thomas. Wendy’s had rejected at least two buyout offers from Triarc.
Triarc will pay about $26.78 per share for the company, which has about 87 million shares outstanding. The price is a premium of 6 percent from the company’s closing price of $25.32 Wednesday.
April 24th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Starbucks Corp said on Wednesday it was the latest victim of the U.S. mortgage meltdown.
Blaming hard-hit housing markets of California and Florida for slowing sales, the coffee shop chain slashed its quarterly and 2008 profit forecast below Wall Street targets and said it faced the “weakest economic environment” in its history.
The company’s shares tumbled 12 percent on the news, which came four months after company founder Howard Schultz returned as chief executive with a mandate to turn around the struggling U.S. business.
“The wheels have really come off of this train,” RBC Capital Markets analyst Larry Miller told Reuters, noting his surprise at the warning. “It’s amazing how fast business has derailed. If sales are down mid-single digits, that is a rapid erosion.”
If you can’t meet expectations and your business model is bust just blame everything on the subprime folks. You see according to Starbucks people took out home equity loans to drink lattes.
We can’t economically produce products to meet our needs. Now as a nation we borrow the money from foreigners to buy their products- then we paint each others nails and walk dogs for a living.
How is that a sustainable economic model?
April 24th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
prtraders2000 (103):
My problem is that she is finding homes in our price range, but they are 1.5 hrs from my job. For me waiting a little longer means shortening the commute to something bearable.
How do you feel about 3 hours commuting time each day? Will your wife then complain that you’re not spending enough time with/neglecting her? Ah, married life. Good luck.
April 24th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
“IMF”
Make [116],
I’M F**ked?
April 24th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Make [120],
McDonald’s doesn’t have a problem selling coffee.
April 24th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Another Mish Missive:
“Interestingly enough, analysis posted on the Fed’s own website shows why the program is doomed to fail. The conclusion of a Fed sponsored study was that banks and broker dealers will not make short term unsecured loans to each other when instead they can swap increasingly lousy paper with the Fed. ”
http://www.minyanville.com/articles/Fed-libor-swap-loan-reserves/index/a/16875
April 24th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/120904556560150.xml&coll=2
19 Alabamians join Army under program providing mortgage and business funding
For a minute, I thought that read “Albanians.”
You know, I figured it was going to come down to military and housing…just thought it would happen sooner. Mortgage elimination for middle east sign-ups.
April 24th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
#121 Exactly.
April 24th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Atlanta suburbs aren’t doing too hot either. A few observations: Two large beautiful subdivisions, wooded lots, walking trails etc sit empty. Not a single house has sold and the developer of one is paying $100K a month in interest (but won’t be able to for long). Little 9-hole golf course (10 bucks a round) is having the worst spring in its history. Girl Scout moms are worried about writing a check for $40. Gas was $3.59 this morning. And generic food, in plain white boxes, has appeared in the local grocery store of this “upscale” area.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
RE: $15bb foreclosure relief plan
At first I thought I would be for the plan, especially if they decide to use it as an affordable housing alternative. What a great way to get affordable housing. Existing structure paid for on the backs of banks who started this unaffordable housing mess to begin with by making poor lending decisions. Problem will be implementing the plan. I could see major problems with have government manage housing dispersed across various neighborhoods in an efficient manner. Lots of room for govt waste and overspending. Let the market set the price. It was government who got us in the mess in the first place by creating the $250k capital gains exclusion and started the home flipping train. Govt is the system that needs fixing, not the real estate market.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
#104 - Tell your wife that a long commute is a prime source of unhappiness - this is an academic finding, not just someone’s opinion. From the Wall St. Journal:
While we often adjust amazingly well to life’s hardships, commuting is an exception. “You can’t adapt to commuting, because it’s entirely unpredictable,” says Daniel Gilbert, author of “Stumbling on Happiness” and a psychology professor at Harvard University. “Driving in traffic is a different kind of hell every day.”
I would NEVER buy a place 1.5 hrs from work.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Shore 109 and 108,
We may be seeing short term inflationary activity, but look at how much debt (aka Money) is being destroyed. banks have written down about 200 Billion so far and could be liable for up to 1 trillion by some estimates. This is massive money supply destruction. Add in housing price drops and while it is a fuzzy picture it looks like we could be seeing long term deflation
April 24th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
i have tried an 1.5 hour commute. It has a huge negative effect on your life in general, less time with family/friends, always coming home annoyed from traffic etc.
Dont Do It!
April 24th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
BC (24)-
“I hear that WS is structuring a new product with food ingredient tranches. After all, there is a vast world now rioting. WS wants to tap into this.”
In that case, I want to get long high fructose corn syrup.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
BC (25)-
Now that the UK has ordered the tide out- as it relates to LIBOR- it appears all the bathers are sans pants.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Cindy (26)-
Can’t nerve gas be made from almonds, peach pits and apricot pits?
April 24th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
#127, 129-
Am I missing something? Don’t most people who live in BC Haughtyville towns have 1.5-hour commutes each direction to Manhattan…? Surely those folks aren’t all working in NJ.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Cindy (31)-
“Banks are finally doing the right thing,” said Don Scordino, president of the Fresno Association of Realtors. “They are bringing down the price to where it needs to be. A year ago, the most unrealistic sellers in the market were the banks.”
A preview of coming attractions in NJ?
April 24th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
come on now ,,, most bc town advertised as
minutes form the GW bridge. then a pleasent
ride to the office.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
# 128
Ket,
I suppose the risk is always there but Big Ben is a student of the Great Depression and I don’t think it will happen. I suspect that the Fed (perhaps with assistance of the Marines and Air Force) would take some action tht would cause inflation to ignite. After all, the Fed has tools to deal with inflation, but not much ability to address spiraling deflation.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
BC (65)-
“Go for it. Earning New York $$$ and paying New Jersey real estate costs is a great arbitrage.”
I think bi was Pret’s quant on this one.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
gary (67)-
“I mean the ones lurking on this site from Weichert, Realogy, etc. I await your professional analysis with great anticipation.”
Gary, I’d reckon that lurking Realtors here are neither professional nor capable of offering analysis.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
bairen Says:
April 24th, 2008 at 8:47 am
Now there are a few nice updated houses below 450 and a real nice 3/1 colonial for 375k.
bairen,
the 3/1 colonial has been on the market over a year I believe and is located on Central Ave., not far from what many consider the projects here in town. Don’t waste your time on this one.
There may be a few buys emerging in the lower end in Westfield but they are few and far between. Cranford, however, has some very attractive listings under $500k, is a decent town and two stops closer to NYC.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
(93)-
This is a prime example of why the market never goes to 0.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
I took my kids for lunch today and at the next table were two “Mendham Moms” doing lunch after “Little Gym”. While it reaffirmed how well my kids behave in public, I thought I would share a few of the more enjoyable quotes.
#1 While peeling and slicing an Advocado from her handbag “I must pick up a copy of that Jessica Seinfeld book, I just can’t seem to get these kids to eat anything”
#2 “Are you sure it’s not alergies, pick me up a copy as well.”
#2 I’m scheduling Halley and Trey at the moment. Halley has a week free. I think I might sign her up for art class. Trey is so into acting class (He’s 4). Did I tell you he got the lead last week. Although I had trouble explaining why, the huff and puff wouldn’t blow the last house down.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Hi everyone,
A friend of mine is looking to relocate to NJ from southern CA. They just sold a lovely 3-bedroom, 2-bath condo in Thousand Oaks for $315K, down from their original asking price of $405K. (I find that amazing - I don’t know if such a condo for that price exists in Morris County.) Her husband makes around $70-$80K/year. She does not work and they have three kids. The youngest one is only 2 so her going back to work and paying daycare is not an option. Hher husband’s office is in Parsippany. They want a 4-bedroom, 2-bathroom house for under $300K with good schools and a decent commute. (I’m 100% serious.) They are flipping out over not just the prices, but the property taxes. I was perfectly straight with her. I said NJ is outrageous. The taxes are not going down anytime soon; if anything they’ll be shooting up some more. She’s looking in towns like Wantage and Vernon, thinking that an hour commute might not be too bad. I told her that it’s an hour commute WITHOUT traffic. I said that’s why we’re renting in a town close to work - we don’t want the stress of commuting. I’m trying to get her to look at some fixer-uppers in Roxbury, Randolph and Mt. Arlington in her price range, but they’re not too thrilled about getting a fixer upper. I said that’s all they’re going to get now unless they want to pay big bucks. They would consider renting but anything decent is at least $2000, and they’re used to a $1000 mortgage. Besides, if they do get a house for under $300K (assuming they decide to break down and get one of theser fixer uppers) they’re monthly payment would be around $2000 anyway. Any ideas? I think her husband should find a new job in a cheaper area. However, he works in IT and we all know where those jobs are going. I have a feeling they are going to move here and be miserable.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
What’s with Gold? Temporary dip, or has the rally run its course?
April 24th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
#142:
I don’t have kids, so maybe this is clueless of me to suggest, but why is her going back to work “not an option”? If her youngest is 2, that means they’re all old enough to be in some sort of day care or preschool, right? Even if the mom is spending a large portion of her take-home for child care, it’s an investment in her family’s future, because at some point, the kids won’t want Mom around 24/7.
Simplest solution to me is to earn more money. Or, rent.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Re 143
who was it who had their plumber suggesting they buy silver at 20. you know that that plumber is panicking now. Although my opinion is that this is just the lull before the storm, similar to the housing market.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
yank (142)-
“They want a 4-bedroom, 2-bathroom house for under $300K with good schools and a decent commute. (I’m 100% serious.)”
Yank, you should tell them to stop the car in Kansas. Indeed, they will be miserable here. And, NJ certainly needs yet another underemployed, underpaid IT guy.
April 24th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
#140 clot: This is a prime example of why the market never goes to 0.
And sadly why so many marriages are unhappy.
April 24th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
[144],
Some players decided to take off their jockstrap. Will dress again when field conditions improve.
April 24th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
vodka (145)-
Another battlefield where the weak longs have been blown out.
April 24th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Pat #124: So it turns out that comedian Marc Maron, former Morning Sedition host on Air America Radio. Maron predicted a kind of “Visa Army”, where you would have your debt forgiven in return for military service. I think the video is on his MySpace site.
April 24th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
“Sybarite Says:
April 24th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
What’s with Gold? Temporary dip, or has the rally run its course?”
Gartman no longer has a position
April 24th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
The 10 yr yield is going crazy. Is there some new news out there that I am missing? We were at 3.50% less than 2 weeks ago.
April 24th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
My marriage must have the roles reversed. I have been the one doing all the RE research. DH happily agreed to waiting until the market comes back to reality. I wonder if I was married to a woman would I have had as easy a time convincing her to wait. After listening to all of you, I’m guessing the answer would be no.
April 24th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
#144.. “I don’t have kids, so maybe this is clueless of me to suggest, but why is her going back to work “not an option”? ”
Oh, I agree. She had her third kid because her second was about to go in to kindergarten and she knew she’d have to go back to work… so she had the third so she could stay home for five more years. She thinks I’m a terrible mother because I work. Meanwhile, I only have one child (he’s 8) because of this reason, and I rent so I can be close to work and my family in case of emergencies. We also have savings, college funds saved and retirement money, which she has none of.
Clotpoll… LOVED the Kansas reference… HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
April 24th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
3b (147)-
The emotional housing decision battle is a symptom of a much deeper problem.
“Nesting instinct” is another way of saying “flight to safety”. There was a lot of that after 9/11, and it was perfectly understandable.
However, a rashly-taken decision to buy a house these days- without careful examination- can hardly be termed a flight to safety. It’s more like Russian roulette: if you can stay in the house through this down cycle, you’ll probably be OK. If you lose your job, get sick or get transferred, you’re toast.
April 24th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
#153-
I’m in your camp… DH is deferring to my judgment on housing market matters.
I suggest these fellers request that their wives read this blog daily for a few months, and perhaps we’ll see more marital success.
April 24th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Jaw (152)-
A lot of people who had their money parked in a safe place (Treasuries) woke up one morning a couple of weeks ago and realized their parking bill was way too high.
April 24th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Clot - Are you advocating for …NOT buying a house ???
There is no job safety now - only for MD’s in hospitals and goverment employees.
April 24th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
#154 Yankeegal -
I hear you… I plan on continuing to work if I have kids.
It’s a simple numbers argument. If you want to live the “good life” with owning a house and having savings and college fund and retirement, you need to earn more and spend less.
Good on ya for teaching your son about responsibility and independence. I hope your values rub off on your friend… I’ve lost a few friends who couldn’t wait to have kids so they could quit working…!!!
April 24th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
There are people who quit working when they have kids?
Where’s that at, Delaware?
April 24th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
#159 movinBC
Not that I’m badmouthing my friend for not working… she’s super frugal and very resourceful and is so good at saving money every way she can. But even doing this, they still struggle and can’t save for college or retirement. And god forbid something should happen to her husband, they will really be in trouble.
I do envy her spending all that time with her kids, however. Even though I work, I think having one parent home is definitely better for the kids… but not necessarily better for the parents!!!
April 24th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
#155 clot: I have seen it happen time and time again. And it always end badly
Not to start a battle of the sexes here, but using the term nesting instinct, somehow seems to let some women off the hook, as far as making a hugh financial decesion, based on emotion.
Nesting Instinct? You can nest anywhere, all you need is a decent roof over you head and 2 people committed to making the right decesions. If you are not on the same page, it will never work.
No sense having your own nest if it will be filled with money woes, regrets, and recrimiantions.
April 24th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
#160 Pat
I live in Hanover Twp and when my son was in kindergarten, I think at least 60-70% of the mothers I knew with kids the same age did not work. They are starting to go back to work now; however, they mostly work in the school system and have summers off.
April 24th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
I don’t know if this was posted earlier, but now even NAR doesn’t want any more rate cuts.
Yun offered a caution. “With elevated inflation, the Federal Reserve should be extra careful about further rate cuts,” he said. “Mortgage interest rates, which do not move directly with Fed funds rates, may rise measurably and hurt the housing recovery if inflation gets out of hand. Monetary stimulus is plentiful – what is needed more at this point is a home buyer tax credit to get buyers off the sidelines and prevent the market from overshooting on the downside.”
http://www.realtor.org/press_room/news_releases/2008/existing_home_sales_slip_in_ma