From Reuters:
As Wall Street suffers, so does nearby New Jersey
The Wall Street upheaval that has depressed New York City’s high-flying real estate market is also slowing property sales and lowering prices right across the river in the state of New Jersey.
Long known as the city’s “sixth borough” due to its proximity to New York, Hudson County, New Jersey, basked in Wall Street’s boom as financial firms relocated back office operations there to avoid skyscraping Manhattan rents, said Derrick Gross of the house-hunting website StreetEasy.com.
Now Hudson, home to two of New Jersey’s highest-profile cities, Jersey City and Hoboken, is feeling the pain of the bust. Sales have slowed to a crawl and homes for sale are piling up.
“New York is one of the epicenters of the accelerated recession — or the potential depression — because of how important the financial industry is,” said Bill Staniford, chief executive of real estate research website PropertyShark.com. “There is going to be a softening affecting anyone in the vicinity.”
At the current pace of sales, which in November was down 47 percent from last year, it would take 24.1 months for all the properties on the market in Hudson County to sell, said Jeffrey Otteau, president of Otteau Valuation Group, a real estate consultancy and appraisal service.
“The weakness that’s been gripping everyone else has just come home to roost in Manhattan, and that’s affecting Hudson County,” Otteau said.
Job losses in the financial sector are reducing housing demand in Manhattan and related markets such as Jersey City and Hoboken, he said.
…
The situation is exacerbated by Manhattan’s falling prices, which are drawing demand away from its secondary markets as more buyers find they can afford the city again.The slowdown has forced sellers in Hudson to drop their prices.
In the past two months, sellers of 16 percent of Hudson County’s listings have cut their prices by an average of 8.7 percent, according to StreetEasy.com’s data.
In Hoboken, prices have dropped on 43 percent of the listings during the time the properties have been on the market; in Jersey City, that is true for 34 percent of the listings, Gross said.
The homes that are selling tend to be in the lower price ranges, around $350,000, said Hoboken broker Norma De Ruggiero.
“Three years ago you couldn’t buy anything for $350,000,” she said. “It just wasn’t there.”
Frist??
Happy New Year Everyone!!
From the Record:
Number collecting unemployment in NJ hits 16-year high
The number of people receiving unemployment insurance payments in New Jersey hit a 16-year high in December, figures released today showed.
The figures, released by the U.S. Department of Labor, also showed the number of insured unemployed in the nation rose by 140,000 to 4,506,000 – the highest figure since 1982.
Patrick OKeefe, director of economic research at J.H. Cohn Accounting of Roseland, said the New Jersey figure ìsimply reflects the continuing deterioration in the health of the labor market.î
The figures show the number of people receiving unemployment insurance in the state rose by 5,998 to 162,919 in the week of Dec. 20, the highest number since February 1992.
This video sums up NJ’s economy.
Rise, then a sudden crashing to earth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osXU2u5OhiI&eurl=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/extramustard/12/31/danica-patrick-speeding/index.html
24 months of inventory in Hudson county!!
How can that be possible? It’s so close to NYC, and everyone wants to live there.
/off sarcasm
I really dislike Hoboken. It seems to be full of people who are continuing their college lifestyle in the real world.
The homes that are selling tend to be in the lower price ranges, around $350,000, said Hoboken broker Norma De Ruggiero.
“Three years ago you couldn’t buy anything for $350,000,” she said. “It just wasn’t there.”
————————————–
Does this mean that Frank (What recession?) has been wrong all along?
Wishing everyone all the best in 09′, happy & healthy. Grim, cant say thanks enough for a no BS, honest (weather you like it or not), outstanding site. In a world full of “what you want to hear information” I know where to come for reality and truth. Most here bring something to the table that makes me think even if their just tryin to stoke the fire, sometimes that all you need. As my dear sweet little grandmother used to say…”Happy Friggin New Year!”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090101/ap_on_re_us/rose_parade
Rose Parade stays afloat despite recession
“The recession and housing crisis didn’t keep the crowds away or stop the National Association of Realtors from entering its first float in the Rose Parade.
The Realtors’ float was one of 46 — some from major companies with sagging stock prices such as Honda Motor Co. and Macy’s — in the floral extravaganza that has marched on through the Great Depression and world wars for 120 years.
Planned more than a year ago — before a flood of foreclosures and a credit crunch that has made mortgages hard to come by — the association’s float is dubbed “Celebrating the Dream of Homeownership for 100 Years.” It showcases a Victorian-style house covered in corn husks, coconut flakes, sesame seeds, roses and orchids.”
“I really dislike Hoboken. It seems to be full of people who are continuing their college lifestyle in the real world”
mothers milk is so sweet for many.
SAS
i still have Abba songs in my mind.
waterloo..!!
:)
SAS
“the association’s float is dubbed “Celebrating the Dream of Homeownership for 100 Years.” It showcases a Victorian-style house covered in corn husks, coconut flakes, sesame seeds, roses and orchids.”
I think of D-Day in animal house ramming the float with the mobile of death… I couldn’t find that clip but here’s a good one, who plays kevin bacon in 09′? hank paulson?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ntbfVQvHt8
“Trump Entertainment Gets 3-Week Extension to Restructure Debts”
http://tinyurl.com/8d8czl
bonuses? they knuckleheads should be fired and hit the pavement.
“Citi cuts executive pay
Pandit, Bischoff, Rubin forgo bonuses; other executives face cuts”
http://tinyurl.com/a3c9b3
“The fallout from Bernard Madoff’s alleged Ponzi scheme reverberated around the world as the list of investors facing losses widened. Among the biggest losers were charities, hedge funds, and banks in Europe and Asia. Below, see some of the most exposed investors and sort by the amount of potential losses. –Updated 12/31/08 ”
http://tinyurl.com/9o8b3p
sas it gives me pains in my stomach… im busting my a** for every buck I make/have, i’m not even sure how to plan any more.
F-ing BS
ABBA on you tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REElUors1pQ
“the associations float is dubbed Celebrating the Dream of Homeownership for 100 Years. It showcases a Victorian-style house covered in corn husks, coconut flakes, sesame seeds, roses and orchids.”
What I liked most about this float was how they had the sheriff (clothes made of bluebonnetts and purple irises) nailing an eviction notice on the front door as the family climbed out the back window carrying the flat-screen TVs, espresso machines, etc. into their three Hummers. It was a lovely use of floral elements. Especially the holes in the drywall when one peeked into the windows.
“Bernard Madoff’s alleged Ponzi scheme”
so where are the profits?
this shakeout is far from over and has a twist, this is another Enron. The corruption is instutionalized.
you may think, how does Madoff effect me? well, it represents how corrupt & vegas style investing goes in Wall st…across the boards really.
if confidence get shaken more, 4K DOW here we come.
and you thought your 401k & funds took a beating in 08.
ha ha ha!!!
SAS
#13 sas
Why would a hedge fund invest in another fund? Talk about getting money for nothing.
I do miss one thing about Hoboken…the bus to the city stopping at my doorstep every 10 minutes. Now I have to walk all the way to the end of the block to catch the train…sigh.
#15 Shoreguy,
Maybe thgey can add Freddie Crouger to it next year. Dreams turn into nightmares.
“ABBA Dancing Queen 1976”
ah, i have such fond memories from that time.
i wish I had a time machine.
“you can dance, you can jive”
:)
SAS
2009….is here….if this year is anything like last year….we should have a lot to talk about.
The big question re: The ABBA girls…which do you prefer the blonde or the brunette….?
“The ABBA girls…which do you prefer the blonde or the brunette….?”
thats a damn hard call. i do think those 2 women really represent beauty.
“take a chance on me”
http://tinyurl.com/57j4zc
SAS
Good morning all. A happy and healthy new year to all!
I gotta tell ya SAS I like ABBA, but last night I broke out the Boston album. Now there is a band that could rock. Could teach the young bands a thing or two. Who am I kidding, I haven’t liked a new band since Oasis.
“sas it gives me pains in my stomach… im busting my a** for every buck I make/have, i’m not even sure how to plan any more”
i hear you brother. makes you feel any better, i wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth. i’ve worked & still work my tail to the bone.
but, i do know this.
i learned these lessons the hard way, which have always get me afloat in my life (and also kept me alive):
-go w/ your gut & first instinct, cause it always the right one.
-don’t listein to anyone, but yourself.
have an open mind & hear input, but always make your own decision, no matter whom it pisses off…even if you have to piss off the pope..so be it.
-don’t follow the crowd, cause they do the wrong things at the wrong time.
i know, sounds simple, but many don’t do the above.
just my thoughts,
SAS
sas
I’d love to meet you in real life. With all the things you’ve posted here, I’d never take you for an ABBA fan.
“Boston”
they have some good tunes. yes, they could teach some young bands a thing or two.
many of today’s are synthetic/made to look like a label. well, the so called “pop” ones anyways..
I don’t know “oasis”.
only oasis i know is Oasis Lounge in Rapid City, South Dakota. Its a native american joint where they get drunk hard & fast.
if you are a white guy, you gotta be hard as nails to go in there by yourself. when i go, I go with an old friend of mine, T. Standing Bear, whom is native american (Lakota).
why i went there? its a great watering hole.
SAS
ABBA fans,
What next? A GTG at Mama Mia?
Yikes says:
in both cases, the stock market took two years to go down. the market only dropped here within the last six months. this would lead me to believe that we’ve got at LEAST another year before the recovery hits. and that isn’t even taking into account the fact that we’ve NEVER SEEN A BUBBLE like this current mess.
Y-man: The generally agreed “top of the market” was October 2007, so we are 15 months into this one…..we are probably due for one more extreme smackdown, but there should be an updraft of some size at some point in here. I think the problem with 2009 is that the headline numbers are just going to be bad…day after day…..but people tend to ignore that stuff after awhile.
Happy 2009….my New Year’s resolution is to cuss more on the threads…bi-otch….
“New Year’s resolution is to cuss more on the threads”
hugh. u still drunk from last night cheers?
:)
SAS
By the way, I want to take some stupid credit for at least calling the timing of the Madoff thing…..for weeks before it happened, I kept talking about something big and wacky out of left field. I was saying December 16-18, and I think it came out in the day or two before that weekend. Yeah, I know it didn’t really have a pronounced market impact, but -man- what a completely %ucked up situation. Seriously. What in the hell was that?
“ABBA fans,
What next? A GTG at Mama Mia?”
Uggg! 70s pop music was bad enough the first time around. Alright, Fleetwood Mac was okay, and Boston et. al, were okay for the time, but ABBA? Oy!
sas 25
Cheers! thx for the affirmation… now back to the important stuff
“The ABBA girls…which do you prefer the blonde or the brunette….?”
c’mon that’s easy, both
is bi-otch a curse?
#32 ChiFi – Yes, you did call the Madoff thing exactly right. I remember your post and wondering what it would be. What was it? You just had a strong gut feeling and weren’t afraid to share it. And you were right. Kudos!
It’s beyatch!
Obviously ChiFi is not street trained.
feels good when you say it right… beyatch! that’s it, thx stu
actually i think bi-otch was first used by Thurston Howell the III to Lovie the I, from middle english
ABBA?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gPETyY5eIM
Talk about foreign cultural disconnect
How ’bout this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=namnAIZ7Drw
Or this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R82OM5tzcrk
Brothers and sisters it’s time to dust off the cowboy hats and blue jean jackets if we are going to be talking about ABBA….we might want to think about gettting a little Gary Cooper here kids.
PS
The writer would like to thank Mr. Bruce Springsteen for saving the United States from ABBA…
Haooy New Year all.
Seroiously how could any one think or still think that our area would not take a hard fall, after all that transpired in 2008.
Still hearing people say, prices won’t fall here, or prices won’t fall alot, and I say why,why,why.
Just one reasonable answer is all I ask. The only answer I get, when I get one is “because they wont”.
And this from educated supposedly intelligent people.
Sorry. Happy New Year to all. Last night was one incredibly cold night.
Happy New Years Day and something apropos for all you musically inclined investor types out there for 2009:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_DV54ddNHE
Americans should get it…. 1975 kids.
“The writer would like to thank Mr. Bruce Springsteen for saving the United States from ABBA…”
[41],
“Poor men wanna be rich, rich men wanna be kings, And a king aint satisfied till he rules everything.”
All the best 1n 2009, to all. In 2009, it’s time to mine.
Actually, sad to close the door on 2008.
Happy New Year to all and wishing the best to Gary and any others unfortunate enough to have lost work in 2008.
Speaking of Gar- are you out there? Hope you’re doing well.
Speaking of Gary- are you out there? Hope you’re doing well. What happened to our gtg?
4.
“I really dislike Hoboken. It seems to be full of people who are continuing their college lifestyle in the real world.”
would you say the same of the hipster sections of Brooklyn? I agree about Hoboken.
wish you have a cheerful new year with following tag:
1) dow will reach 11000;
2) srs unger $25.25 (recent dividend adjusted);
3) oil over $60 (raised from $50 i made 2 weeks ago);
4) recession ends in Q1;
5) gold under $600/ounce
6) case/chiller shows yty price up by June.
3b.
Last night I did a little whirl wind tour of the MLS. Honest to god the delusion out there is maddening. So many properties, not ONE in a reasonable price range, not even in counter offer territory. At this point I’m convinced that there is a LOT of realtor collusion going on. I’m familiar with the local brokers here, and even the smart and savvy ones, the ones I talk to at council meetings, who understand the market, are participating in this stalemate. No one wants to be the bad guy broker who starts selling off the handful of properties at 30% below the ask or more. Many of these brokers come from old established families around here and stand to piss off blood.
was at a new year’s day gathering this morning. mostly folks in the 45 and up age range … lots of bitc*ing about taxes and NJ when the subject came up about us buying in PA.
one guy said he bought three acres in PA in the last couple of years just to escape taxes. 4000 sq foot house and 3 acres … and his taxes are slightly LOWER than what he was paying in NJ (hunterdon county) for 2000 sq feet and half an acre.
also added that his friends are increasingly thinking they’ll be following him to PA.
the exodus continues
52 yikes: “also added that his friends are increasingly thinking they’ll be following him to PA.”
Usually these are the very same people who voted for the tax-raising union-controlled politicians. Then they move to a neighboring state and bring their voting habits with them. In 5-10 years they have destroyed the new state, too. They are like parasites who are willing to kill the potentially healthy host and then move on to the next state.
PA, NH, FL, AZ, CO, TX were healthy states few years ago, now the locusts from failed states have contaminated them.
#49 Barbara
Woudn’t know about Brooklyn. I avoid going there there. The best man from my wedding lives in Bay Ridge, he asks me when I’m going to visit. I always tell him when he moves out of Brooklyn.
Yikes and jamil,
I saw a story on Channel 12 (the NJ news whatever it’s called) showing that NJ was 2nd in the US for number of people moving out. Something like 60% of all interstate NJ moves were outbound.
1) dow will reach 11000
4) recession ends in Q1;
5) gold under $600/ounce
bi,
Explain this combo to me? It’s very confusing to me.
If gold is under $600 an ounce, kiss your recovery goodbye. One other thought, if gold is under $600, where do you really think stocks will trading? I hope gold trades towards $600, I’m locked at $950, until Dec 2009. What levels, stocks, are you locked at?
By the way, I also think the Dow will trade close to 11,000; 10,500-11,000. Gold and the Dow will be joined at the hip. Let all the delusional get bulled up with the O recovery, a major bear market rally. A 50% retracement, peak/trough, is reasonable. Unfortunately, I feel that it will hit a brick wall at these levels, if we get there. At this point, the market will realize that there is no recovery, zero/negative growth accompanied with inflation. Slumpflation. The great unwind will continue, new lows in the Dow. Here, gold and the Dow will disconnect. Just wait until we start to hear about tariffs, trade wars, currency wars and protectionism. It will be a dandy, buckle up.
bairen: People want to move from blue states to red states. Unfortunately, in the process the healthy red states turn blue.
Citizens and legal residents are leaving NY, NJ, CA in droves. Illegal immigration still keeps the population growth balanced in these states. For every taxpaying citizen leaving the state, at least one benefit-sucking parasite moves in. This massive Ponzi-scheme is the one that finally destroys the country.
One more thing…if you take into consideration the grade of tin foil that one uses in the helmet…you will need several layers to stop the signals from entering the brain.
56#, bob, i am not so bullish on gold this year based on: 1) high inflation is unlikely this year; 2) 2008 style panic will be less likely; 3) gold will have less appealing compared to other distressed assets. but again, i won’t bet against it by real money. there may be more troubles a few years down the road but unlikely it will happen this year.
eh..58 is not me.
It is the same 10-old kid (or a liberal moron, with equivalent mental capacity).
It always amazes me the depths these libs go having kicks, but if you have a really pathetic life, I suppose this is all you can achieve.
bi [59],
One thing for sure, I’m glad I didn’t take your advice and sell nuggets, at $750, to buy X-Mas presents. Actually, I did the opposite, got rid of some dollars and bought nuggets.
All the best in 09′.
How about 5k Dow. The collapsing debt-financed asset price bubble has barely begun. There is nothing but bad news coming from all of the public companies, earnings season is going to be a bloodbath.
Layoffs are now coming en mass.
1st 6 months of 2009 5 million will lose their jobs, retail, construction and service jobs.
2nd 6 months of 2009 an additional 5 million will lose their jobs.
For homeowners the psychological effects of being underwater on their mortgage is beginning here in NJ. People are already less inclined to borrow money, or to spend money fixing up their home, and home improvement value increases will be swallowed up by comps of neighbors who were desperate to get out. General market price declines all around here in NJ and you don’t need a crystal ball to see it.
There will as John points out still be profits to be made by those who bought very early 1997-2001 in the previous housing boom cycle but fewer people will have this option, most will be underwater and aren’t moving anywhere for at least a decade.
Happy New Years to all, and most of all stay healthy, financially, physically and emotionally.
Anecdotal evidence:
i went for a long walk today with Indiana Bones (my dog) in the area of the townhouse.
(I have a small townhouse on the uws).
I noticed 2 new places that closed & now have “for Rent” signs. slowly but surely i’m seeing more & more of this,
even in the so called “swank uws”.
SAS
#53 totally agree. I’ve seen it happening before my eyes, and it makes me heartsick. My beloved Bucks is becoming overrun – please don’t move here.
one thing that concerns me about increasing commercial RE places not having tenants in my hood is this:
at night, no lights, its dark, no foot traffic.
perfect place for a drug dealers to set up shop (and they do & will find spots like that).
i remember during the crack epidemic in the 80s this was really bad, i had to step over some of the crack heads at night.
during that era, i did ask some of the crack dealers not to set up shop during school hours. not appropriate for the children (was a public school).
they responded with a lift of the shirt, and a flash of brass, asked me “do you have a problem n-word?”
I said “fair enough sir, last thing I want to do is disrespect you or hurt your buisness”
next day, got a knock on my door, that crack dealer was there w/ his boss. Boss says “we both aplogize Mr. SAS, were off this area from 7-4”.
Connections: sometimes they are worth more than gold.
SAS
back then, swank uws… wasn’t so swank.
but, things sure have changed, and I hope it doesn’t return to what it once was.
SAS
Barbara [51]
I hear what your saying, I am not so sure of outright collusion though. Of course sellers and realtors have an incentive to keep prices high, but realtors need transaction volume to survive. I think the properties that are listed now over the holidays are probably the most desperate. A large percentage of these have outstanding mortgages w/ very little equity, so they are listed at what they owe plus 7% to cover fees and taxes. The only way they can lower the ask is to sell short or write a check at closing. The advice my realtor gave me (which I think is good) is to primarily consider homes where the seller is in a strong equity position as these folks will have the necessary flexibility to negotiate. Then it is just up to how quickly they want to sell. Of the many homes we have looked at here in NE Monmouth, we knew of three or four where the owners either had no mortgage or strong equity and they all sold with a short DOM and for 10-15% off OLP.
“Panel wants fuel taxes hiked to fund highways
National commission wants to hike fuel taxes, impose driving fees to pay for highways”
http://tinyurl.com/8molra
“Sovereign Wealth Funds Take a Big Hit”
http://tinyurl.com/7qtnsv
67.
JBJB good point, in fact we already decided that when we jump back in, we will not even look at houses bought after 2003 AND we will want some lowdown on the home ec situation from the agent. No more wasting entire days on house searches that are 40% upsidedown. Been there, done that.
“No more wasting entire days on house searches that are 40% upsidedown. ”
For some time, I suspect, many people will attempt to get ’06 prices and refuse to sell for less — withdrawing the place from the market if need be. Over time, though, life will get in the way of obstinance and those who are looking to move on with their lives (getting out from under crushing debt or tax burden, downsizing due to medical or lifestyle issues, getting a bigger place, relocating to a warm state or for a new job) will start to recognize the necessity of pricing according to the new reality. It may take some time, but the market forces will require it. Tic tock, prices will drop.
72. Shore guy
I’m sorta counting on it. I come here to get set straight and keep sane.
I remember a time not too long ago when 500,000 dollars was routinely referred to as “half a million.”
*mumbles to self*
“Statue stolen from Madoff found with message”
http://tinyurl.com/7k82vc
link? evidence?
I just checked the listings in Westfield. There are a lot of nice places in the 475 to 500k range. 3-4 bdrs that have been renovated this century and are in move in condition.
A year or so ago I couldn’t find a rundown cape in that price range.
Barb (51)-
I’m out there every day, trying to piss off every agent in my area.
Any way you cut it, I win. Either things begin really sinking & I keep picking up forced sales; or the stalemate continues, and my competitors are forced out of the biz.
I hate real estate agents. Real estate agents suck. But I like people who can transact real estate. Big difference.
Oh…yeah. Happy f’ing New Year.
link attached …http://hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/Liberal14.html
just doing some cleaning and came across the 2007 andex chart. these things are so damn cool.
i can’t wait to see the 2008 one.
(link below is to the canadian one)
http://www.andexcharts.com/c_ewall.htm
100,000 at the Rose Bowl. I guess Frank is right, where’s the recession?
To all:
Best wishes for the new year. Up in vermont to do a long ski vacation. sub-zero temps to day (combined with the wind chill). Killington actually closed. Hope you all enjoy all of life’s pleasures for the new year.
74. Failed State? Now that is something. I cannot really wrap my brain around that one. Having lived in six different states…politics are one thing…but corporations have been failing states for years….pulling up stakes and moving to Mexico for one thing. But the states themselves remain lovely places to be.
clott,
happy new year and merry xmas…
For more than two decades, the leaders of Iceland’s political parties have met every New Year’s Eve over champagne and spiced herring to talk about the year ahead on Iceland’s Channel 2 television.
But this year’s show with Prime Minister Geir Haarde was cut short 45 minutes into the program when a torch-wielding crowd stormed Reykjavik’s Hotel Borg in an attempt to get to the studio.
Protesters inside and outside the hotel clashed with police, who fired pepper spray to disperse the 500-strong crowd. Some demonstrators threw water balloons, while others tossed firecrackers.
http://tinyurl.com/8k82qg
“100,000 at the Rose Bowl. I guess Frank is right, where’s the recession?”
Happy Valley?
Sorry, Pat.
kettle [83],
Welcome to 2009, a bull market in uprisings.
Frank,
I think I’ve found your recession.
http://money.cnn.com/video/#/video/news/2008/12/30/news.feyerick.123008.cnnmoney
Interesting article of how Corzine will save the state, he plans on waiting for $$$ from BO.. what is even more interesting is the responses people left about Corzine. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/01/tough_times_face_new_jersey.html
Happy New Year to all, and hopefully another 20% drop in prices.
Jim
BI:
Doubled my position in SRS at the close yesterday. My position is now half way to full. Any other good tidbits from that black box of yours?
bairen [86],
Goodbye mall.com.
“100,000 at the Rose Bowl. I guess Frank is right, where’s the recession?”
yes, alot of dumb, drunk college kids maxed out on credit & student loans can fill many stadiums.
SAS
“My position is now half way to full”
careful bloke. you never get caught the first time you do something.
you get caught when you think your hot to trot and can always pull it off.
SAS
“deal or no deal”
god damn this show is stupid.
SAS
#89 BC Bob,
Good riddance too. Malls are just a way for people to spend money they don’t have to buy overpriced junk they don’t need. Also a place for teens to hit on each other.
Please stop scaring people. Just stop it. We were all told to buy and hold and that the market will recover. We can’t time the market because you have to be right twice. That’s impossible for most people, so just buy and hold. Besides, you’re not making any return on money put in a bank. Interest rates are too low. The only place to be is in the market. Stop trying to scare everyone away from the market. I’m not going to allow you to take away my dreams.
As to Madoff, this is an isolated incident. He did this by himself. Besides, I don’t believe that he stole an amount equal to Bill Gate’s net worth.
sas says:
January 1, 2009 at 9:28 am
“Bernard Madoff’s alleged Ponzi scheme”
so where are the profits?
this shakeout is far from over and has a twist, this is another Enron. The corruption is instutionalized.
you may think, how does Madoff effect me? well, it represents how corrupt & vegas style investing goes in Wall st…across the boards really.
if confidence get shaken more, 4K DOW here we come.
and you thought your 401k & funds took a beating in 08.
ha ha ha!!!
SAS
Hyena
bairen vulture says:
January 1, 2009 at 9:31 am
#15 Shoreguy,
Maybe thgey can add Freddie Crouger to it next year. Dreams turn into nightmares.
#87 hopefully another 20% drop in prices
No need to be hopeful, another 20% is guranteed.
SAS:
Not too hot to trot. Also, not too large of a position to lose sleep at night. My full position will be less than than the profit made in initial run. Took over a year to realize significant gains last time around. Willing to wait even longer if necessary. If 2009 is as bad as I’m guessing it will be, I’ll be alright. Do appreciate the warning though. Keeps a man sane.
“Happy New Year to all, and hopefully another 20% drop in prices.
Jim”
You want everyone to suffer just so you can get a cheaper house. You’re extremely selfish
#95 re101
Would that be a laughing hyena?
#59 bi: So this year no trouble, but in a couple of years trouble? Why? Based on what?
#50 bi:4) recession ends in Q1;
Why? Based on what? 3 short months and all is well? At least John was waiting until the end of May.
#51 barbara: Agree see the same thing in my town.
But nothing is selling, and this is the year the delusion will be followed by the painful reality,and the substanial price drops.
Has anyone read “Rich Dad’s Prophecy” by Robert Kiyosaki.
Sub -title” Why the biggest stock market crash is STILL coming”
My son gave it to me for xmas, started it today, almost done. Great book about why market will crash. It makes a lot of sense, written 2002. Everything is playing out as is written, within decent predictions. It is a house of cards, where the taxpayers under 50 are going to get screwed,or revolt.Tax burden will be unbearable, real estate taxes will go through the roof,( how much higher can they go?)
Sound familiar? Looks like some of you guys are right on!
Basically baby boomers will be sucking out their 401k money, especially after already losing 20 to 40 %. Result market collapse,high unemployment, Depression.
The government actually forces them to start taking their money at 70.5.
To coin a phrase , it looks very GRIM.
Jim
“bairen vulture says:
January 1, 2009 at 9:59 pm
#95 re101
Would that be a laughing hyena?”
No, that would be the sniveling, groveling low down as a dirty dog kind. The kind that doesn’t hunt his own food, but sits around waiting until someone hits a snag and then swoops in to pick the bones. Hyenas, snakes, cats and vultures are the lowest of the low.
reinvestor101:
What’s so bad about cats? Mine are great pets!
tard (94)-
Just had a New Year’s drink with my SEC pal who’s combing through Madoff’s life. Several items he mentioned right off the bat:
1. Madoff definitely had intel help (props to SAS for that call) in deploying the loot all over the planet. He figures there’s about 1 bn hidden that the SEC will never find.
2. Madoff didn’t make a bad trade way back when and then spend years in desperate trading, trying to make it back. He consciously ran the thing as a Ponzi from Day 1.
3. There’s a connection between Madoff and Ed “The Human Torch” Safra’s people (mostly Swiss/Sephardic). The Safra connection appears to be his “in” to Brazil & to Swiss banking.
stu (97)-
Will be fun watching the phoenix of SRS rise from the ashes.
Am going to Texas hedge myself with a nice short of SPG tomorrow (thanks, BC). Should add a nice, turbocharged “kick” to the plummet when things start to get hairy again.
Lots of well-dressed adults hitchhiking in FL.
tard (98)-
I’d be satisfied if the suffering were just localized to you, in particular:
“You want everyone to suffer just so you can get a cheaper house. You’re extremely selfish”
I can pretty much wait forever for SRS to come in.
How many longs have the same time horizon?
NO NO NO. Don’t say that. This is all lies, just lies.
As I said, I don’t believe he stole $ 50 billion. That’s country sized money. He couldn’t steal and spend that much.
HE IS ISOLATED AND DID THIS ALONE. This can’t be stressed enough because we can’t have a situation where people believe that there was more than one person in on this or that there’s a group of people taking our IRA/401K money and acting like they’re a bank and lending it out. The funds of funds were innocent victims in all this. Hell, people might start thinking that there are a few Madoff’s doing this same thing. Our system is based on belief and faith. We can’t have another run on the bank/stock market. Please stop this kind of talk.
Clotpoll says:
January 1, 2009 at 10:32 pm
tard (94)-
Just had a New Year’s drink with my SEC pal who’s combing through Madoff’s life. Several items he mentioned right off the bat:
1. Madoff definitely had intel help (props to SAS for that call) in deploying the loot all over the planet. He figures there’s about 1 bn hidden that the SEC will never find.
2. Madoff didn’t make a bad trade way back when and then spend years in desperate trading, trying to make it back. He consciously ran the thing as a Ponzi from Day 1.
3. There’s a connection between Madoff and Ed “The Human Torch” Safra’s people (mostly Swiss/Sephardic). The Safra connection appears to be his “in” to Brazil & to Swiss banking.
All Hype says:
January 1, 2009 at 10:29 pm
reinvestor101:
What’s so bad about cats? Mine are great pets!
A cat is down there with a snake; always sneaking around. They never want to be petted. I can’t stand them.
I’m fine with cats. But BIRDS???
I hate birds. They’re like flying mice.
Treasury Opens Door to Array of Companies, Industries to Help Automakers
“There are going to be other industries that are going to have just as good a case,” as the auto companies, former St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank President William Poole said in an interview on Bloomberg Television. “We don’t know what those other industries are going to be. Where does this process stop?”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=aZm0zupPvbB8&refer=home
Treasury Has Pledged More Rescue Funds Than Authorized
The Treasury Department has committed nearly $10 billion more than the $350 billion Congress has authorized to date for the financial-sector rescue package, which could constrain how the incoming Obama administration deploys the rest of the fund. Treasury’s announcement Monday that it is directing $6 billion to auto-finance company GMAC LLC brought to $358.4 billion the total funds from the Troubled Asset Relief Program that have been pledged to a variety of programs and guarantees. That suggests Treasury is tapping into the second half of the $700 billion set aside in October before it has been released by Congress. “They are pushing the envelope here,” said Sen. Bernie Sanders (I., Vt.), a critic of the bailout. “What they are trying to do is create a situation to put pressure on [President-elect 0bama] and the Congress to provide the next $350 billion.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123068292824744097.html
patrick.net links an article that claims that Madoff ran his fund as a real hedge fund for years. then, when it tanked (due to lousy investing), he claimed that it was a ponzi scheme, so that his investors would qualify for government restitution (which they wouldn’t get, in the event of it simply being a failed hedge fund).
another theory, just for fun
Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
Thats how it goes
Everybody knows
Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died
Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows
Everybody knows that you love me baby
Everybody knows that you really do
Everybody knows that youve been faithful
Ah give or take a night or two
Everybody knows youve been discreet
But there were so many people you just had to meet
Without your clothes
And everybody knows
Everybody knows, everybody knows
Thats how it goes
Everybody knows
Everybody knows, everybody knows
Thats how it goes
Everybody knows
And everybody knows that its now or never
Everybody knows that its me or you
And everybody knows that you live forever
Ah when youve done a line or two
Everybody knows the deal is rotten
Old black joes still pickin cotton
For your ribbons and bows
And everybody knows
And everybody knows that the plague is coming
Everybody knows that its moving fast
Everybody knows that the naked man and woman
Are just a shining artifact of the past
Everybody knows the scene is dead
But theres gonna be a meter on your bed
That will disclose
What everybody knows
And everybody knows that youre in trouble
Everybody knows what youve been through
From the bloody cross on top of calvary
To the beach of malibu
Everybody knows its coming apart
Take one last look at this sacred heart
Before it blows
And everybody knows
Everybody knows, everybody knows
Thats how it goes
Everybody knows
Oh everybody knows, everybody knows
Thats how it goes
Everybody knows
Everybody knows.
i really really hope this financial crisis is affecting everyone in some way shape or form on this board!!! finally you people get what you want and it would be soooooo IRONIC that it affects everyone here…hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha…happy new year!!!!!!!