Losses lower for Hovnanian, revenue in the gutter

From K. Hovnanian:

Hovnanian Enterprises Reports Third Quarter Fiscal 2009 Results

This marks the 12th consecutive loss for the Red Bank based homebuilder.

Revenue fell by somewhere near 45% from $716.5m in the third quarter of last year to $387.1m for the current quarter.

On the positive side, at least the losses are getting smaller. K-Hov lost *only* $168.9m in the current quarter, lower than the $202.5m last year. Word on the street is cost reductions drove the savings, something about less hair gel.

On another note, does anyone know if Ara ever sold his home? I believe the last asking price on it back then was $7.2m, up from the $6.75m purchase price (2005).

——————————————-

Update, looks like there is a sale on the tax records!

88 West River Road, Rumson NJ
Purchased: 9/24/2005
Purchase Price: $6,750,000

Sale Date: 7/10/2008
Sale Price: $5,600,000

Looks like Ara took a million dollar bath, so much for his bottom call, from Bloomberg:

Hovnanian Chief Says Housing Bottom Is `Very Near’
September 14th, 2007

“The bottom is very near but I think it’s going to stay along the bottom for a while before a recovery,” the 50-year- old Hovnanian said today.

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257 Responses to Losses lower for Hovnanian, revenue in the gutter

  1. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    frist

  2. Ben says:

    Since we are posting CNN articles on real estate, I wonder what happened to these people.

    http://money.cnn.com/2004/05/12/real_estate/investment_prop/tycoon_cromer/

  3. veto that says:

    just got back from the local mega strip mall. tons of empty stores.
    Even Old Navy closed.
    I would think any store that sold $4 jeans would flourish during a recession.

  4. grim says:

    Speaking of empty stores..

    From Reuters:

    Samsonite retail unit files for bankruptcy

    The retailing business of Samsonite Corp, the world’s top luggage maker, filed for bankruptcy on Wednesday as part of a reorganization aimed at closing roughly half of its 173 U.S. stores.

    Samsonite Company Stores LLC said its Chapter 11 filing is aimed at focusing the business on its outlet stores, which have fared better during a steep drop in consumer spending on travel and leisure.

  5. Ben (3)-

    I like the part about riding a roller coaster 20 hours a day.

    Reminds me of dance marathons during the Depression.

    http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?displaypage=output.cfm&file_id=5534

  6. In the perfect version of hell, Ara would be forced to live in one of the crapshacks his company builds.

  7. BC Bob says:

    “On the positive side, at least the losses are getting smaller. K-Hov lost *only* $168.9m in the current quarter”

    I’m drowning in 20 ft of water rather than 30 ft of water. I’m getting there.

  8. grim says:

    Oh bother.

    From the WSJ:

    The Reluctant Landlords

    In Frederick, Md., Realtor Jim Bass says that because of rising demand, a couple of months ago his real-estate group started offering property-management services, tending to the rented homes of absent owners. Mr. Bass says a client recently rented out his 4,700-square-foot house after failing to sell his home, which he listed for $790,000. Now a tenant pays $2,995 per month—a shortfall of $2,000 from the $4,995 mortgage payment. The homeowner “feels that two years from now, the market will improve to the point where he can recapture that,” Mr. Bass says.

  9. yikes says:

    Stu says:
    September 1, 2009 at 5:56 pm

    Citi Home Depot Rewards card closes October 1st. And the banks keep on lending.

    stu, is this some sort of twisted joke? Wife and i got $1500 worth of cards (via Amex) when we bought our house.

    came in super handy for all the odds and ends that we weren’t expecting.

  10. grim (10)-

    See why I say it’ll take 20 years to muck out all the sewage?

  11. BC Bob says:

    “Always, written on placards surrounding the dance floor and endlessly repeated by the marathon emcee was the question: “Ladies and Gentlemen, How Long Can They Last?”

    Clot,

    You can’t make this sheet up. Fast forward to the bubble, Chuck Prince [the truly talented]; “As long as the music is playing, you’ve got to get up and dance. We’re still dancing.”

  12. BC Bob says:

    “The homeowner “feels that two years from now, the market will improve to the point where he can recapture that,” Mr. Bass says.

    [10],

    Market will improve? Ask shorty;

    http://jsmineset.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/clip_image0011.jpg

  13. yikes says:

    talked to a friend today. he went HEAVY on RE around 04/05. i bought once place and when i was flipping it (off the advice here), he kept saying, “you’ve got to keep building wealth.”

    I told him to at least sell a few places. (he has a beach condo in MD, and about 5 houses in Atlanta. mostly of the low-income variety. he cleaned up in 04/05/06.)

    he was frank: “It almost took me down this year. Almost wiped me out.” Said he had a place empty for 10 months. had multiple renters not pay rent and on the way out F*&$ his places up.

    He said he is only now starting to get out from under. i told him to sell places – he said nobody’s buying.

    i told him to walk away from one or two … he said he can’t, or they’ll come after his other places or maybe his primary.

    felt bad for him, and of course he said “i should have listened to you, man.”

    and by me, he means YOU GUYS

  14. danzud says:

    Grim #10,

    Don’t worry, the next recommendation from the NAR will be to give $25,000 tax credits to people who sell their houses.

  15. Frank says:

    Who says taxes only go up in NJ??

    Matawan approves amended budget, Borough residents can anticipate a lower property tax rate.

    http://independent.gmnews.com/news/2009/0827/front_page/012.html

  16. (17)-

    The dunce shows up like clockwork, cheering the outlier, the exception to the rule and an isolated incident that he manages to convince his pea brain is a trend.

  17. So, Frank, how many other NJ municipalities are lowering their taxes?

    Or, are you telling all of us to move to Matawan?

  18. grim says:

    Matawan approves amended budget, Borough residents can anticipate a lower property tax rate.

    Half the decrease was due to extraordinary state aid. Where does the state get the funds to provide aid? Taxes.

  19. Stu says:

    Yikes (11):

    Home Depot Rewards Card is definitely closed.

    http://ficoforums.myfico.com/fico/board/message?board.id=creditcard&message.id=179771

    Information found “elsewhere” indicates that the accounts are being closed and cannot be PC’ed by request and are unlikely to be PC’ed by Citi offer. The reason being cited is a stupendous write-off rate of 55%. OUCH and OUCH!

  20. Stu says:

    Grim,

    Other penny decrease in Matawan taxes came from reducing library surplus. Hope there aren’t to many rainy days in Matawan’s future.

  21. chicagofinance says:

    Reposting from other thread….

    207.chicagofinance says:
    September 2, 2009 at 8:44 pm
    201.veto that says:
    September 2, 2009 at 6:09 pm
    Chi, You start a b!tch fight and then call truce as if you’re on the defensive. This is getting old already.
    Seriously, try to pass your time in a more constructive way.

    Dude: You get to ream me out twice, and also an extra free shot calling me OCD. All I did was explain myself. You are the c-cksucker. You smacked the sh!t out of me twice, and now you complain about it? WTF?

    You made a comment that would make you sound like a stupid ignorant sh!t to anyone in finance. Sorry I corrected you.

    208.chicagofinance says:
    September 2, 2009 at 8:50 pm
    veets: let me clarify that one a bit, so people will appreciate what I am saying.

    The stock AT&T has a current dividend yield of 6.30% based on Yahoo just now….stock price of $25+.

    Tomorrow the stock goes up $2 to $27+ and you comment “AT&T taking a dive. 6%”

    No….it’s flying through the roof…

  22. A 55% writeoff rate might be one of Citi’s more successful credit card ventures.

  23. chicagofinance says:

    I want blood!!

  24. yikes says:

    John says:
    September 2, 2009 at 12:33 pm

    Wall Street should get more comp. I have been to non financial service companies in the surburbs and all that is there are housewives, and beer bellied mid 50’s combover mid level managers. Everyone in Baseball starts out wanting to play for the Yankees and everyone in an MBA program wants to be an IB banker at GS, MS or JPM or some top notch Private Equity or Hedge Fund job. The leftovers end up in the other industries.

    because Strong Island is full of fit bobby redfords, right?
    john, would you ever show up at a get together? we’d make the drive from bucks for it, that’s for sure.
    you can’t be real

  25. yikes says:

    Here For Now says:
    September 2, 2009 at 5:00 pm

    [186] Not even entertaining the thought of buying right now. Only considering stepping up to a single family house to RENT for a couple of years … and looking to try to keep that cost down to a minimum as well.

    Property taxes are really scary around here. The thought of signing up for a 12K annual property tax bill has no appeal right now.

    but prop taxes have showed no signs of stopping. they will only increase. this means you will just never buy?

    would you move to buy?

  26. lisoosh says:

    They shoot horses don’t they?

  27. grim says:

    Frank says:
    September 2, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    Who says taxes only go up in NJ??

    Matawan approves amended budget, Borough residents can anticipate a lower property tax rate.

    Frank,

    Hurrah! for the lower tax rate. But too bad it doesn’t mean lower taxes.

    From the APP:

    Matawan approves 2009 budget amendments; taxes to go up

    The borough council’s proposed $9,731,992 budget for 2009 will increase municipal property taxes about $64 a year for the average homeowner, officials said.

    Under that rate, homeowners can expect their property tax rate to increase $92 to $2,161 a year for the average assessed home of $347,473, according to county valuation figures.

  28. grim (30)-

    Thanks. I didn’t stop to think that Frank was either lying or too illiterate to understand what he was reading.

    That’s why he insists on Mexican quants at his day job.

  29. BC Bob says:

    Clot [31],

    Forget about that imbecile. Concentrate on more important issues;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxIuIxqo2So

  30. Stu says:

    Looks like the consumer has still chosen not to participate.

    ap:
    Retailers report sales declines for August

    Retailers say August results fall as shoppers hold back on back-to-school purchases

    NEW YORK (AP) — Retailers are reporting sales declines for August as shoppers continue to hold off on back-to-school purchases and continue to focus on necessities.

    As merchants report their sales figures Thursday, teen apparel stores reported weakness. Wet Seal Inc. and Hot Topic Inc. both said sales dropped. Labor Day falls a week later this year, so some back-to-school purchases are likely to come later.

    Warehouse club operator Costco Wholesale Corp. says sales at stores open at least a year dipped 2 percent, but that was above analyst expectations. Food remains a best seller.

    August is expected to be the 12th consecutive month of such declines.

  31. chicagofinance says:

    I WANT BLOOD!

  32. lostinny says:

    34 ChiFi
    Watch HBO Sunday nights at 9.

  33. kettle1 says:

    MMMMMMM bubbleicious

    Some warn of deflating asset bubble in China

    * The Shanghai composite index sank 6.7% Monday, worrying global investors and capping an August bear market that has stripped more than 23% from share prices. The nerve-jarring drop prompted some — including the head of China’s $298 billion state-run investment fund and a former top Morgan Stanley economist — to warn of a deflating asset bubble. “Some of us were over-optimistic about the ability of China to become the engine of growth for the region and the global economy,”

    * [..] Chinese stocks have been whipsawed by signs that the government is tightening the tap on its free-flowing fiscal stimulus. Beijing has battled recession by funneling unprecedented sums through state banks as part of a $586 billion pump-priming.

    * Lou Jiwei, head of China Investment Corp., the government’s investment fund, said this weekend that both China and the United States were “creating more bubbles” in trying to combat the global crisis. And Andy Xie, a prominent, former Morgan Stanley economist, told Bloomberg News that the Shanghai exchange is in “deep bubble territory.”

    * [..] with lending from state-dominated banks shrinking from a monthly average of about 1,230 billion yuan over the first half of 2009 to as little as 300 billion yuan in August, investors sense the government is pulling back.

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2009-08-31-asset-bubble-china_N.htm

  34. BC Bob says:

    This mate also wants blood. Yes, burn your paper to the ground.

    “In a stark message aimed at Germany and France, which want the G20 leading nations to discuss “exit strategies” from measures to stimulate their economies, Mr Darling insisted that governments must carry on spending to ensure the global economy returns to sustainable growth next year.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/keep-spending–darling-warns-g20-against-complacency-1780887.html

  35. lostinny says:

    Hey Stu you’re number 2!

    The Cars Thieves Love Most
    by Hannah Elliott
    Tuesday, September 1, 2009

    http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/107656/the-cars-thieves-love-most?mod=family-autos

  36. Beggar thy Neighbor.

    The 11th Commandment.

  37. BC Bob says:

    “Food remains a best seller.”

    Stu [33],

    This is encouraging.

  38. Stu says:

    “Food remains a best seller.”

    Yes BC, although it wouldn’t have surprised me if people gave up their frozen dinners for newer large screen TVs and iPhones.

  39. Here for Now says:

    [28] What scares me most about the property tax situation is combining it with the weak job market (unusually high potential for a layoff in my field) and a large mortgage payment based on still-too-high prices.

    Plus on the taxes, seems to me that the worst may be yet to come, and we won’t know how all this plays out until we’re past this repression. It may get so bad that we would indeed move away from this area altogether.

    So that’s why I’m kicking around this plan to rent in the nicer sections of a so-so town like Woodbridge, Rahway, Edison, Avenel etc. Just trying to keep overall costs down while we wait this out.

  40. Maylook1day says:

    33 – “Food remains a best seller.” LOL, could they have intended “food is still selling”.

  41. grim says:

    Jobless claims in at 570k.

  42. grim says:

    The 4 week moving average up to 571,250.

  43. Maylook1day says:

    I wonder if Costco is refering to their ‘Thrive’ MRE’s, six month supply for family of four – shelf life 10 – 20 years, no kidding.

  44. Cindy says:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=aiyfkkqoy.A8

    “Ratings Firms Lose Free Speech Bid to Dismiss Lawsuit”

    A U.S. judge refused to dismiss a lawsuit against Moody’s Investor Service Inc. and Standard and Poor’s rejecting that investors can’t sue over deceptive ratings of private placement notes….etc.

  45. Stu says:

    “Jobless claims in at 570k.”

    Wow…looks like the typical unemployment parabola is going to have quiet a long positively skewed tail.

  46. grim says:

    Prior week claims revised up to 574k from 570k.

  47. Silera says:

    I just looked up Thrive- and the results blew my mind.

    I think I’m on a list somewhere now…

  48. X-NJ, formerly X-underwriter says:

    Here for Now (45)
    Just rent for a year. In those towns you won’t be competing with yuppies for rentals and it doesn’t seem like you’re sure you are going to be staying here.
    You need to be sh*t sure you’re staying and have a solid job here right now before you should consider buying.
    You can say to yourself you’re throwing all that rent money down the drain but do the calculations on what a mortgage would cost every month with taxes and insurance and how much it will cost to sell in a few years and it opens your eyes.

  49. Cindy says:

    More on rating agencies from 50 @ Rueters: “Morgan Stanley, Moody’s, S & P must Defend Fraud Claims”

    http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE5817EK20090903

    “A U.S. federal judge rules that Morgan Stanley and two credit agencies must defend fraud charges in a class-action lawsuit accusing them of masking risks of an investment linked to subprime mortgages, and which eventually collapsed.”

    Will anything come of this?

  50. Sean says:

    re#55 Cindy – re: “Will anything come of this?” Most of these firms has set aside money for settlements.

    The class action lawyers will get rich, the poor old widows in Sweden who lost their pension will be begging in the streets.

  51. Cindy says:

    56 – Sean – A girl could get discouraged….

    Latest from my district: Stimulus (one-time funds) may be used to “encourage” early retirement. Retire a number of $70,000 -a- year employees at say – 60 years of age and 30 years employment with a $20,000 bonus then you increase those per classroom. Then, when you DO need to hire again, you go for the $38,000 a year – new hires.

    We are just waiting to hear the final info. Looks like it will happen for real. I, BTW, am not eligible.

  52. BC Bob says:

    Nom,

    “Sept. 3 (Bloomberg) — HSBC Holdings Plc’s Swiss private bank says more rich foreigners are inquiring about moving to Switzerland, spurred by rising taxes at home and concerns about the erosion of banking secrecy for non-residents.”

    “We’re not talking about thousands of people because we’re talking about people with a certain wealth, but it’s significant,” Zeller said in an interview in Zurich. “They come above all from countries which have substantially increased taxes. There’s a direct correlation between taxes and the desire of a wealthy person to want to establish themselves elsewhere.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20603037&sid=ae3NU.gekp.0

  53. Cindy says:

    http://www.govspot.com/know/incometax.htm

    BC @58 – TONS of friends here talking about moving to nearby no-personal-income-tax states: Nevada and Washington. No Sales tax in Oregon. CA is so sk@wed.

  54. yikes says:

    NJ apple store gutted in 31 seconds by thieves

    (video is great)

    http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/take_action&id=6995567

  55. veto that says:

    Chi, You are kidding right?
    Because thats how your rebuttle reads, like a joke.

  56. make money says:

    Albani,

    I got your back.

  57. still_looking says:

    37 lost,

    My FAVORITE guilty pleasure….EVER.

    In January I watched the whole first season in about 2 days….then read the book series (all nine of them) in a week.

    Now waiting for the 10th book to come out.

    sl

  58. chicagofinance says:

    make money says:
    September 3, 2009 at 10:03 am
    Albani, I got your back.

    mm: My bud from Woodlawn once said to me “…hey..even though you are p-whipped piece of sh!t, you are Albanian, and the Irish know you don’t mess with the Albanians…they are fcuked in the head…”

  59. chicagofinance says:

    kettle1 says:
    September 3, 2009 at 8:12 am
    chifi http://hemospat.com/terminology/images/Blood_Pool.jpg

    ket: thank you

  60. chicagofinance says:

    albani: nice shiny trade

  61. Sean says:

    re# 64 – Look at those column, that place was built for a king! On the water in Massapequa too! That is John’s dream home, and I bet it has the updated Kitchen his wife wants!

    Quick John cash in those bonds and buy yourself raffle tickets!

  62. veto that says:

    chigfin, ive been trying to rip into you on several of your many short-comings but this moderation keeps thwarting the execution.
    hate that.

  63. X-NJ, formerly X-underwriter says:

    Interesting post from a similar RE blog down in NoVA

    Cara: Back from Corolla and met with my real estate agent today to list some properties. She told me a story I thought you might find interesting. She is putting a condo on the market at The Berkeley in Ballston and was there with a photographer taking pictures of the condo and photographer also took photos of lobby. While doing so, she ran into Lawrence Yun who is the chief economist at NAR and who lives in the building. She did not know who he was, but he asked her if she was putting one of the condos on the market (I guess the photographer was the clue). She said yes, and he introduced himself and said that this was a good time to sell before the next wave of foreclosures hit. My agent asked him when that was going to happen and he said right after the $8,000 credit ended in December. She also asked him what was going to happen to interest rates and he basically said “who knows.”

    https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=4787878578920468587&postID=7272514792812793505

  64. snuggler says:

    Does anyone have any insight when people will start putting their homes up for sale? Inventory for spring of ’09 was terrible. Will spring of 2010 be just as bad?

  65. veto that says:

    Snuggler, Inventory is horrendous as far as i can see.
    Its putting more confidence into sellers and delaying the price correction.
    I blame the removal of MTM. There are several short sales and foreclosures that i know of that are simply not for sale right now. This has been going on for months.
    I put an initial offer of 350k on a nicely update place last week. That was fair value based on comps and some nice upgrades.
    They said “no” and didn’t even counteroffer. They are asking 367K and are confident they will get it. They bought the place for 300k in 2005 and put 50k of upgrades into it.
    This is nuts.

  66. chicagofinance says:

    the end is nigh….

    No thumbprint, no money, bank tells armless man

    MIAMI (Reuters) – A bank in Florida refused to cash a check for an armless man because he could not provide a thumbprint.

    “They looked at my prosthetic hands and the teller said, ‘Well, obviously you can’t give us a thumbprint’,” Steve Valdez told CNN on Wednesday.

    But he said the Bank of America Corp branch in downtown Tampa, Florida, still insisted on a thumbprint identification for him to cash a check drawn on his wife’s account at the bank, even though he showed them two photo IDs.

    In the incident last week, a bank supervisor told Valdez he could only cash the check without a thumbprint if he brought his wife in with him or he opened an account with them.

    “I told them I neither wanted an account with them and couldn’t bring my wife in because she was nowhere close by,” Valdez told CNN.

    Bank of America said in a statement cited by CNN: “While the thumbprint is a requirement for those who don’t have accounts, the bank should have made accommodations.”

    Valdez said his treatment by the bank violated the U.S. Americans with Disability Act requiring institutions to provide reasonable accommodation to disabled persons.

  67. make money says:

    My wife says that it’s worth buying $1,000 tickets (50K) and having a 1:30 odds of winning a home.

    I asked her if she’s been hanging with Clot.

  68. chicagofinance says:

    veto that says:
    September 3, 2009 at 10:43 am
    chigfin, ive been trying to rip into you on several of your many short-comings but this moderation keeps thwarting the execution.

    veets: Basically, human behavior suggests that your post will actually be a window into your mind, but using me as subject matter. So read it closely as you are speaking to yourself.

  69. chicagofinance says:

    make money says:
    September 3, 2009 at 11:10 am
    My wife says that it’s worth buying $1,000 tickets (50K) and having a 1:30 odds of winning a home.
    I asked her if she’s been hanging with Clot.

    make: why not just go to AC and stay at the Borgata for a weekend? She will be treated like a queen.

  70. veto that says:

    “read it closely as you are speaking to yourself.”

    chi this explains your trite attacks perfectly.

    You jump all over typos like a child.
    this is a casual chat room, not some caricature of donald trump’s board room.

    but im not going to beat on you anymore, even though you deserve it. Im starting to think you like it. Please stop posting things to my attention. thanks,

  71. veto that says:

    chigfin,
    im not going to beat on you anymore, even though you deserve it. Im starting to think you like it. Please stop posting things to my attention. thanks,

  72. BC Bob says:

    Make [77],

    The east does not trust the west. The pillars of the Comex are starting to shake.

  73. make money says:

    chigfin,
    im not going to beat on you anymore, even though you deserve it. Im starting to think you like it. Please stop posting things to my attention. thanks.

    Translation,

    ChiFi you’re the man. You’re smarter, stronger, wealthier, bigger(onions) and you got the whole Albani nation behind you. Please stop beating on a poor Guido and I’ll stop using access Gel and oil products.

  74. make money says:

    The east does not trust the west. The pillars of the Comex are starting to shake.

    yup. right on schedule.

  75. LTLV says:

    *72 veto: Take it easy, prices are declining, more and more every day. And property taxes are rising.

  76. PGC says:

    #75 ChiFi

    “veets: Basically, human behavior suggests that your post will actually be a window into your mind, but using me as subject matter. So read it closely as you are speaking to yourself.”

    That’s an interesting thought, my rants against Nom’s Right wing, Republican diatribes usually hit moderation. I would say that our politics while not polar opposites, are far enough apart. My replies could probably be interpreted as “All Republ1cans are going to Hel1”

  77. morpheus says:

    chi & veto:

    can’t we all just get along.

    Is it safe to emerge from the bunker? where are the blue helmets?

  78. veto that says:

    make, i couldnt be further from a guido.
    you are off-base, like most of your other posts.

  79. LTLV says:

    *84 The tone and camraderie of this blog has declined over the last few months. Dominated now by just a handful. No more give and take.

  80. chicagofinance says:

    veto that says:
    September 3, 2009 at 11:18 am
    chigfin, im not going to beat on you anymore, even though you deserve it. Im starting to think you like it. Please stop posting things to my attention.

    Seek therapy, sir.

  81. kettle1 says:

    LTLV,

    I agree. The herd getting restless as the storm clouds gather? no one likes uncertainty…

  82. kettle1 says:

    Chifi,

    Sweet, maybe Veto and i can do group therapy! :)

    (Note this is meant purely as a pot shot at myself and am not trying to join the fray)

    back to mopping floors…..

  83. kettle1 says:

    maybe this for the next GTG to relieve some of the tension???? SFW

    http://www.interpretivearson.com/projects/ddi/

  84. veto that says:

    “can’t we all just get along.”

    morph,
    i forgot a word and created a typo. chig jumped all over it like a child.
    then stooped to name calling and cursing me out to make himself feel better.
    thats par for the course with him.

  85. LTLV says:

    *89 Possible, more than that however, I believe. A certain meaness if you will now permeates this blog,and ironically a be silent or agree with me mentality.

    Plus the outbursts, arrogance,and rules and conformity that only apply to some, not all.

    It used to be a sanctuary.

  86. BC Bob says:

    “no one likes uncertainty…”

    Kettle,

    With all due respect, I disagree.

  87. chicagofinance says:

    ket: Believe it or not, I actually think we are more alike than different. I wouldn’t make such a big issue of things if I did think it was worth the effort. Silence from me is the biggest insult I offer people. It is how I am wired.

  88. Doyle says:

    Will there be hair pulling? Perhaps it will lead to shirt tugging and the inevitable bra shot / stray b**b…

    I love chick fights.

  89. chicagofinance says:

    veto that says:
    September 3, 2009 at 11:46 am
    “can’t we all just get along.”
    morph, forgot a word and created a typo. chig jumped all over it like a child.
    then stooped to name calling and cursing me out to make himself feel better.
    thats par for the course with him.

    veets: fcuk you a$$$hole…that’s bullsh!t

  90. kettle1 says:

    94 BC

    sorry was being to general.

    uncertainty can be a traders bread and butter.

    But is the bane of the average joe.

    only the 99th percentile enjoy uncertainty

  91. chicagofinance says:

    LTLV says:
    September 3, 2009 at 11:47 am
    It used to be a sanctuary.

    LTLV: I disagree completely. BC Bob summed it up perfectly several months ago. We all focused on real estate excesses. We were correct. Now not enough is happening so we are turning our attention on each other. We are aggressive and opinionated people. This blog is the NJ RE Report, and I stress NJ. Would be have it any other way?

  92. BC Bob says:

    Kettle [98],

    Spot on.

  93. chicagofinance says:

    if I did think it was worth the effort.

    did = didn’t

  94. kettle1 says:

    LTLV

    I think some of it is related to many people coming under increasing stress levels in their daily life whether due to personal finance, job security, or related family issues. Most people i know are feeling some pressure either within their own household or through other family members situations.

    We could probably all stand to be a little more forgiving with each other

  95. yo'me says:

    WASHINGTON — China has agreed to buy the first International Monetary Fund bonds for about 50 billion dollars, the IMF said Wednesday.

    IMF managing director Dominique Strauss-Kahn and the deputy governor of the People’s Bank of China, Yi Gang, signed the agreement Wednesday at IMF headquarters in Washington, the multilateral institution said.

    Under the agreement, the Chinese central bank “would purchase up to SDR 32 billion (around 50 billion dollars) in IMF notes,” it said.

    An SDR is an interest-bearing IMF asset based on a basket of international currencies — the dollar, yen, euro and pound — that is calculated daily and which members can convert into other currencies.

    “The note purchase agreement is the first in the history of the fund,” the 186-nation institution said.

    http://moneynews.newsmax.com/financenews/china/2009/09/03/255910.html

  96. kettle1 says:

    chifi,

    thanks ;)

  97. Barbara says:

    98 kettle,
    but kettle, like all internet msg boards/blogs, only the top 1% of the most influential, wise, wealthy and all around unrealized geniuses post here!!!

  98. still_looking says:

    102 ket

    AMEN brother!

    sl

  99. veto that says:

    chi, you are acting like a lying dilusional manipulator. go drudge up the posts in your own words. and try not to cherry pick pieces of quotes that make you look innocent.
    im not surprised one bit. You’re belligerence precedes you time and again here.

  100. LTLV says:

    * 82 We could probably all stand to be a little more forgiving with each other.

    I would agree.

  101. kettle1 says:

    Barb,

    Thanks, for a moment there i almost forgot that i am actually a super genius janitor… MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJPFSNu_QNs

  102. veto that says:

    ket, its convenient that chi is being nice to you today so that you dont rip into him while he is busy starting a nonsense personal fight with someone else. dont forget that he dislikes you tremendously for no good reason and makes that point clear to everyone here weekly.
    i guess im the target for this week.
    you are right to ignore him. i will do the same.

  103. LTLV says:

    * 99 I do not believe there is a need for people to turn on each other.

    It accomplishes nothing, and adds a level of hostility that harms the conversation.

    This of course is just my opinion.

  104. BC Bob says:

    Chi [99],

    I agree. We, well not everybody, called this back in 2005. Unfortunately, we now have to be patient and wait for the unwind. If market forces were the only parameter, this would unwind by 2011-2012. As a result of govt intervention, freezes, delays and manipulation it may take a total of 15-20 years[peak-trough]. Yes, we have turned Japanese. In the meantime, what do we do for an encore? We nit pick and tear apart each other’s posts. Although, sometimes, entertaining no value is derived.

  105. Danzud says:

    I know most of you won’t have sympathy for Redskin fans. Interesting and not surprising that so many of the people interviewed were mortgage brokers.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/02/AR2009090203887.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR

  106. Stu says:

    Enough you two.

    You both lose.

    Feel better?

  107. kettle1 says:

    LTLV

    I a sick of your crap. as barbara just pointed out, i am a SUPER GENIUS and an always right! i also happen to live in alpine and just flipped a home in Bergen county for a 200% profit. just because you are less intelligent and not as business savvy (or as attractive: http://sixers4guidos.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/abbronzatura.jpg) as me does not give you the right to mewl about on this blog about complaining about the hardships of you your peasant life

    (JOKING)

  108. House Hunter says:

    Veto, are you still looking in Mercer Co?

  109. make money says:

    Veto,

    Why don’t you admit that Albani taught you something about yeilds and prices and just move on.

    It’s OK to learn from someone who’s clearly above your pay grade.

  110. kettle1 says:

    All is not well in the east

    Chinese workers are taking to the streets to demonstrate against pollution and job losses stemming from state-asset sales, highlighting social tensions weeks before the Communist Party celebrates 60 years of rule on Oct. 1.

    http://tinyurl.com/mzjx5r

  111. Stu says:

    Don’t make me turn to my previously frequented blog.

    http://tinyurl.com/njrereport-replacement

  112. Barbara says:

    Stu,
    I have have to go back to the LOST blog, off season! NOooooooOOoOoOoooooo. No.

  113. veto that says:

    make, ive been in finance my whole career, more specifically… bonds.
    not saying i know it all but please.

  114. John says:

    Hey if anyone is unemployed here is a job.

    My client is a $120 Million company located on Wall Street and is looking for an accountant that will become the CFO. They must have SEC experience with all the various filings. They can come from any manufacturing background, mining or financial services as long as they have SEC experience and are a current CPA. The base is going to be just shy of $150K with a 100% bonus making it an initial cash package of @$300K. There is no relocation, local candidates only. Would you be able to recommend someone? Is there an organization that would be best to help network the position? Thank you.

    Siobhan K. Tautkus, Principal
    Abbott Executive Search
    16 Salmon Street
    Manchester NH 03104
    Siobhan@abbottsearch.com
    603-669-9909, X201
    603-606-5502, Fax

  115. veto that says:

    house hunter: yes.
    and i see lower prices but its taking time.
    you?

  116. Stu says:

    “Is there an organization that would be best to help network the position? Thank you.”

    Try Myspace.com

  117. Hubba says:

    #77 make

    More like:

    “We are going to blow you up soon, so give us our assets back before we melt them beyond recognition.”

  118. John says:

    MANBLA

    Stu says:
    September 3, 2009 at 12:34 pm
    “Is there an organization that would be best to help network the position? Thank you.”

    Try Myspace.com

  119. Clotpoll says:

    vodka (102)-

    Except for Gary. This whole thing is his fcuking fault. :)

    “We could probably all stand to be a little more forgiving with each other…”

  120. Clotpoll says:

    See, now even Congresscritters think debt = wealth.

    Surreal, yet absolutely true:

    “In a clip that has to be seen to be believed, California Congressman Pete Stark displays the most unbelievable combination of economic incomprehension, stupidity, hubris, and to top it off tells interviewer Jan Helfeld to “get to fcuk out” or he will be thrown out of the window for daring to expose just what a sack of… hot air Stark is.

    A line that will now live forever, thanks to Congressman Stark: “The more debt we owe, the wealthier we are”.

    http://tinyurl.com/lbghce

  121. lostinny says:

    63
    SL

    You got me beat. It took me about 3 weeks to read the 9 books.

  122. morpheus says:

    #102-stress? hell yes

    That is why IMHO we should have a GTG a strip club and we all contribute so Chi and veto get 1 lap dance each. ONLY 1 each. They have to pay for. . . .um..extras.

    This would help reduce stress.

    This is one GTG I would attend.

  123. Clotpoll says:

    I say we should have a duel for a GTG.

    I’ll provide the drinks.

  124. Barbara says:

    I think you should all find an Open House for the next GTG.

  125. BC Bob says:

    Clot,

    “How strange a thing this is! The Priest telleth me that the Soul is worth all the gold in the world, and the merchants say that it is not worth a clipped piece of silver.”

    Oscar Wilde

  126. Sastry says:

    Veto,

    Truth be told, you seem to be too eager to pick fights. As an example, you and syncmaster thrashed me for noting that the current immigration quotas are more favorable to Indians and Chinese (with “higher preference” categories). You guys thrashed me, not based on numbers, but based on your impressions of what “Americans” think of immigrants. When I tried to clarify, thrashed me again. Went on for longer than needed.

    S

  127. Sastry says:

    Veto,

    Addendum to truth be told, I am also often eager to pick fights, so there…

    S

  128. yo'me says:

    That is why IMHO we should have a GTG a strip club and we all contribute so Chi and veto get 1 lap dance each. ONLY 1 each. They have to pay for. . . .um..extras

    Who wants too fight to get a free lap dance.lol

  129. make money says:

    Shiny is glowing again today.

    i feeel good nanananana

  130. veto that says:

    fair enough sastry.
    i come here with the intention of disagreeing and diliberating. we all seem to enjoy that dynamic.
    its the manner in which we express our different oppinions. these disucssions should not be escalated to personal attacks.
    with the exception of chi i have very rarely if ever felt the desire or need to rip into anyone.
    i dont even take digs on frank or bi or re, who seem to be low hanging fruit for the ultra bears.
    im up for a good sparring now and then. its usually fun. but not when your sparring partner comes into the ring with bare nuckles and a chainsaw looking for the jugular…

  131. zieba says:

    Mid day lap dance for the duo, followed by a quick duel in the parking lot. Losers posse are then quickly shuttled to an open house staffed by Sue Adler.

  132. yo'me says:

    With the chinese buying 50 bil IMF bonds
    shiny will go up dollar will come down.let us see if this will really help the budget deficit.

  133. chicagofinance says:

    morpheus says:
    September 3, 2009 at 12:58 pm
    That is why IMHO we should have a GTG a strip club and we all contribute so Chi and veto get 1 lap dance each. ONLY 1 each.

    morph: If you got my wife to give me that lap dance I would be willing to blow you…..

  134. yo'me says:

    142 i meant trade deficit.

  135. chicagofinance says:

    Veet: That you for helping us learn more about you.

    chicagofinance says:
    September 3, 2009 at 11:12 am
    veto that says:
    September 3, 2009 at 10:43 am
    chigfin, ive been trying to rip into you on several of your many short-comings but this moderation keeps thwarting the execution.

    veets: Basically, human behavior suggests that your post will actually be a window into your mind, but using me as subject matter. So read it closely as you are speaking to yourself.

    veto that says:
    September 3, 2009 at 11:56 am

    chi, you are acting like a lying dilusional manipulator. go drudge up the posts in your own words. and try not to cherry pick pieces of quotes that make you look innocent.
    im not surprised one bit. You’re belligerence precedes you time and again here.

  136. Clotpoll says:

    BC (134)-

    …just let my January AU calls come in the money.

  137. chicagofinance says:

    That you = thank you

  138. veto that says:

    chi,
    that is kind of like ‘im rubber, you’re glue…’
    i remember that from third grade.
    nice.

  139. Clotpoll says:

    Here’s something wildly hopeful. I like the part where they tell these two banks to draft a realistic 2009 budget.

    Er, geniuses, 2009 is almost over.

    OMAHA, Neb. (AP) — The Federal Reserve has imposed restrictions on two correspondent banks in Nebraska and Missouri owned by Midwest Independent Bancshares Inc. of Jefferson City, Mo.

    The agreements released Thursday put limits on the Nebraska Bankers’ Bank of Lincoln, Neb., and Midwest Independent Bank of Jefferson City. Those banks provide banking services for roughly 550 financial institutions throughout the Midwest.

    Regulators want the banks to develop stronger credit risk standards, adopt comprehensive ethics policies, improve capital reserves and draft realistic budgets for 2009.

    A Federal Reserve spokesman declined to comment on the restrictions. Officials with Midwest Independent and state regulators did not immediately respond to messages Thursday.

  140. chicagofinance says:

    Veets: I know why you are steamed at me. If you work in finance, and you made a mistake of that type in front of a colleague, they would lose confidence in your skill set. Sorry it pisses you off. Maybe I did you a favor, or just reminded you of a professional deficit.

  141. Clotpoll says:

    hi-ho doing the hockey stick.

    I’ve been waiting a long time for this.

  142. chicagofinance says:

    Clotpoll says:
    September 3, 2009 at 1:48 pm
    hi-ho doing the hockey stick.
    I’ve been waiting a long time for this.

    Field hockey or ice hockey?

  143. Clotpoll says:

    John must be busy buying IMF bonds.

  144. Clotpoll says:

    chi (152)-

    Murder the Dollar hockey.

  145. Sean says:

    Boy they elected a Democrat in Japan for the first time in 50 years and look what they get for a first lady.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE5812DV20090902

  146. veto that says:

    “and if you made a mistake of that type in front of a colleague”

    ok chi, so this is your inner-most fear that you are self conscience about.
    You should have more confidence in your abilities and stop being so distracted about typos. My colleagues would not jump all over me for that, nor would i to them.
    maybe its different for you? and if thats the case you should ask yourself why you have created such an atmosphere.

  147. BC Bob says:

    Make [139],

    Nothing, yet.

  148. relo says:

    Sounds like she brought some of that Venus green back with her.

  149. Clotpoll says:

    sean (155)-

    Mrs. Watanabe, come to your senses!

  150. Hubba says:

    #155 Sean

    It is just a side bar of the Real Western Leader Freak Show. Sane, talented individuals need not apply.

  151. morpheus says:

    143:
    Chi:
    I must politely decline your offer. In the words of an immortal sage–“Homey don’t play that!”

  152. make money says:

    Make [139],

    Nothing, yet.

    BC,

    We’re at 9 ounces withh Dow. Are you still saying 2.

  153. John says:

    Actually, I was not buying bonds today, lots of BS to catch up on as I am headed out early to Jets Game. I am printing up my Who Let the Dogs Out, VICK sign right now.

    i was going to blow off the preseason game but I have the tickets, weather is perfect and I get to insult Vick and drink beer, alternate is to go home and do mundane boring stuff.

  154. chicagofinance says:

    veto that says:
    September 3, 2009 at 1:55 pm
    maybe its different for you? and if thats the case you should ask yourself why you have created such an atmosphere.

    veto: It ain’t optional if you want to make more than $100K a year for any length of time as a trader. By the way, it isn’t the mistake in itself. The main issue is that there are extremely complicated things to quickly understand and analyze. To the extent that a basic error is made at that level, it draws a whole series of other conclusions. I guess you’ve never seen people who are smart and capable get whacked for performance…not a RIF…

  155. BC Bob says:

    Make [162],

    Yes, within 4-5 years. Many say I’m nuts, they claim 1-1, even inverse. In 1980 it was 1-1. The mess that has been created today has the underlying potential to create havoc, much worse than 1980. “Everything that dies someday comes back.”

    One day, the naked, paper shorts will be called to deliver. This event will make dot com look like a minor league scrimmage.

    When your competition is idiot central bankers, who are prostituting their currencies, the stock of their country, you have to enjoy your seat. Make no mistake about it, it will be volatile, frustrating and gut wrenching. On the flip side, it will be the trade of your lifetime.

  156. John says:

    CHIFI, read it and weep. One of my crazy GMAC bonds is maturing on 9-15 and is trading at par. Who would have thunk it.

    GENERAL MTRS ACCEP CORP 5.10000% 09/15/2009FR
    Price Quantity Date/Time Buy/Sell
    100.000 15 09/03/2009 02:09:27

  157. John says:

    Wow even Rod Stewart could only hold down 7 ounces.

    make money says:
    September 3, 2009 at 2:14 pm
    Make [139],

    Nothing, yet.

    BC,

    We’re at 9 ounces withh Dow. Are you still saying 2.

  158. chicagofinance says:

    The Wall Street Journal
    CAREERS
    SEPTEMBER 3, 2009, 2:24 P.M. ET

    Students Borrow More Than Ever for College Heavy Debt Loads Mean Many Young People Can’t Live Life They Expected

    By ANNE MARIE CHAKER

    Students are borrowing dramatically more to pay for college, accelerating a trend that has wide-ranging implications for a generation of young people.

    New numbers from the U.S. Education Department show that federal student-loan disbursements—the total amount borrowed by students and received by schools—in the 2008-09 academic year grew about 25% over the previous year, to $75.1 billion. The amount of money students borrow has long been on the rise. But last year far surpassed past increases, which ranged from as low as 1.7% in the 1998-99 school year to almost 17% in 1994-95, according to figures used in President Barack Obama’s proposed 2010 budget.

    The sharp growth is “definitely above expectations,” says Robert Shireman, deputy undersecretary of the Education Department. “But we’re also in an economic situation that nobody predicted.” The eye-opening increase in borrowing is largely due to the dire economic environment, which is causing more people to seek federal loans, he says.

    The new numbers highlight how debt has become commonplace in paying for higher education. Today, two-thirds of college students borrow to pay for college, and their average debt load is $23,186 by the time they graduate, according to an analysis of the government’s National Postsecondary Student Aid Study, conducted by financial-aid expert Mark Kantrowitz. Only a dozen years earlier, according to the study, 58% of students borrowed to pay for college, and the average amount borrowed was $13,172.

    The ripple effects for today’s heavily indebted young people are becoming palpable. A growing body of research suggests that tough loan payments are affecting major life decisions by recent graduates, forcing them to put off traditional milestones—from buying a first home to even marriage and having children.

    Also, the rising levels of borrowing may ironically be contributing to the accelerating cost of college, say some college-finance experts. Loans can give colleges an artificial sense of a family’s ability to pay tuition. To some extent, that false sense of security gets built into the assumptions schools make when setting prices, say experts. The idea is that as prices rise, families borrow more and more, spurring prices to rise further, which in turn requires more borrowing. Barmak Nassirian, associate executive director of the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers, says this phenomenon is playing a role in why tuition grows at about twice the rate of inflation. “Instead of imposing tougher choices” on college costs, he says, it’s “easier to raise prices…because this additional loan amount is made available.”

    These and other impacts are likely to continue to spiral for future generations of tuition payers, college finance experts say. It is unclear whether we have seen the worst of it. Mr. Kantrowitz predicts the rate of increase will slow to 12% for the 2009-10 school year due mainly to what he expects to be a rebounding economy. On the other hand, Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody’s Economy.com, says he thinks unemployment rates will be at least as high as they are now, and housing prices will fall further, making it difficult for families to borrow against home equity.

    “Growth in student lending can remain very strong, at least through the next school year,” Mr. Zandi predicts.

    The total borrowing limit for dependent undergraduates who take out federal Stafford loans—the most popular federal aid program—grew to $31,000 this past school year from $23,000. Raised limits in federal loans may have siphoned some borrowing away from riskier—and costlier—private loans, which are now harder to get due to the retrenchment of that business. The move away from these risky loans may be one bright spot in an otherwise frenzied student credit environment, Mr. Kantrowitz says.

    Still, students cringe when they think of what they will owe by the time they graduate. Kordi Solo, a senior majoring in journalism at Central Michigan University, expects to owe about $60,000 in student loans by the time she graduates in the spring. She had hoped to owe much less, but her father, a construction worker, has been out of work since last fall. She worries about the ramifications that debt will have on her future—whether it is being able to afford health insurance or qualifying for future loans.

    Zack Leshetz, a 30-year-old lawyer in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., has $175,000 in student loans from his seven years in college and law school. Lately he has had his eye on the real-estate market. “Everyone says that it’s a great time to buy a house,” he says. But that is not an option right now, he says, thanks to $800 a month in payments—and another chunk of student loans in forbearance, which means payments are halted while interest accrues. “I find myself living paycheck to paycheck,” he says.

    He has also been engaged since March, but has held off on marriage. “There’s no way I can pay for a dream wedding, or even just a regular wedding,” Mr. Leshetz says. “I feel like I’m putting my entire life on hold.”

    “There are no guarantees about how easily you’ll be able to pay off your student loans,” says Lauren Asher, president of the Institute for College Access and Success.

    These students’ experiences are mirrored in research by Mathew Greenwald & Associates Inc. for investment-management firm AllianceBernstein LP. In a 2006 survey of 1,508 graduates under age 35, 39% of college graduates say it will take them more than 10 years to pay off their household’s education-related debt. The survey says that this has caused a delay in certain key “rites of passage” associated with adulthood. Forty-four percent of respondents said they delayed buying a house because of their student loans, while 28% delayed having children.

    “Loans have gone from being the exception to being the norm for most students,” says Mr. Nassirian. He laments that, rather than fixing the problem of sticker price, policy makers typically tweak student-aid programs to make it easier for students and families to continue to borrow more.

    Attacking the problem of cost is thorny because it is politically difficult to get all the interested parties — which include federal and state governments, foundations and private institutions—to agree. “There are so many stakeholders, different explanations at different schools as to what’s happening with cost, that it becomes politically dicey,” says Christine Lindstrom, higher-education program director for U.S. Public Interest Research Group, which advocates for consumers. Also, colleges can be big employers in congressional districts, making it challenging for politicians who represent them to also take them on. “You’re not going to win friends if you’re alienating them,” she says.

    Some Republicans made attempts at controlling tuition increases when they held the majority in Congress. Rep. Howard P. “Buck” McKeon of California championed legislation in 2003 that would have penalized colleges for raising tuition too much by taking away federal subsidies. Though the bill died, he plans to continue pursuing the issue in the upcoming Congress, a spokeswoman says.

    Some recent graduates say they wish they had known more about the consequences of debt before taking it on. Lillian Russell graduated from law school at the University of Pittsburgh last year with $181,000 in debt from her seven years in school. She has spent much of the past year looking for work. In recent weeks, she found a job clerking at a small law office. While she settles into her job, she has deferred payments on most of her federal loans, though interest continues to accrue.

    “I wish I had considered the long-term impacts of what I was getting into,” Ms. Russell says. When she entered school, “the idea was I’d take out the loans, get a job, and pay it back,” she says.

    It seemed straightforward. But as the economy has soured, “I feel like it’s shifted a lot of my life goals,” says Ms. Russell, from buying a house to starting a family. “I’m really concerned about handling this obligation while taking on new ones.”

  159. chicagofinance says:

    John says:
    September 3, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    CHIFI, read it and weep. One of my crazy GMAC bonds is maturing on 9-15 and is trading at par. Who would have thunk it.

    GENERAL MTRS ACCEP CORP 5.10000% 09/15/2009FR
    Price Quantity Date/Time Buy/Sell
    100.000 15 09/03/2009 02:09:27

    JJ: that ain’t investing; it’s bungee jumping…..fine, your rubber band is short enough that you didn’t hit the ground like Wil E. Coyote…..go SANCHEZ!

  160. veto that says:

    chi, i dont want to be a trader or a sleasy salesman like you and i have been making more than $100k for years thanks for the back-handed sarcasm. You think i come in here talking the vernacular of my niche? If i did that, three people would follow (and no you are not one of them), and the rest would fall asleep or tune out.

    i come in here to shoot the breeze about a macro topics that are interesting and enjoyable – stuff they print in the newspaper. to think you try harder than that is sad.

    Lets recap what you are blowing out of proportion here. I think it highlights your neurosis perfectly:

    yesterday I made a comment that the ten year rate is dropping into the 3.30s but forgot to say ‘rate’. Most people who read that picked up on it and moved on. It was meant to trigger a thought about possible future mortgage rates and it was pretty straight forward as this is a blog about real estate so no big deal – right?

    Wrong. Immediately you jump all over it with a text book example of the inverse relationship of prices/yields that you just copied from investopedia, which you have been going on about ever since. Then you read into it as if the typo ruined one of your fast talking pitchbooks and chased a client out the door.

    In all seriousness, do you think you know bond math better than me? I highly doubt it.

    What a waste of time.

  161. Stu says:

    How long before the ‘Dirty Sanchez’ chant gets started?

  162. Sean says:

    Only in America can a guy named Sanchez who was the ball boy for ball boy for Carson Palmer at USC get a $50 million dollar contract.

  163. Stu says:

    Veto/Chi:

    For the sake of the blog, get each others email addresses from Grim already. None of us care whose Jimbrowski is larger. Actually, the longer this goes, the more cowardly you two appear.

    Just some advice from a guy who doesn’t claim he has the largest pecker in the room.

  164. veto that says:

    stu, mine is medium size if that makes you feel better. but its all in how you use it.
    so ive been told by my wife.

    i apologize to everyone for feeding into this today. i meant to ignore it but keep getting pulled in. im done now (i think)

    but honestly, im surprised more people have not spoken up today. most of you guys are all over the first weakling that walks in the door but you turn a blind eye to the jaggoff who starts a distracting battle out of nothing every week.

  165. make money says:

    On the flip side, it will be the trade of your lifetime.

    BC,

    Thanks BC. I just need to hear it from time to time. You know I’m all in.

  166. veto that says:

    bc, stu, ltlv…
    the last paragraph of that post doesnt apply to you.

  167. Stu says:

    Veto,

    You just can’t give up.

    If you would allow me to play Dr. Freud for a moment. We have two similar personalities (as much as this revelation pains you both) that are arguing that each other is correct. The saddest part of this whole little barrage of annoying teet-for-tats, is that over and over again you two continue to prove my theory.

    Exhibit A: ChiFi is smart as a whip but often does not clearly explain what he means. I need an encylopedia at times to figure out what the f he’s saying.

    Exhibit B: Veto that is smart as a whip but often does not clearly explain what he means. I need an encylopedia at times to figure out what the f he’s saying.

    Exhibit C: Both of you idiot savants keep saying the same thing to each other.

    I will now return to my crystal meth lab.

  168. morpheus says:

    #174:

    yes, let us move on. . . . to the planing stage of next GTG. I know of some “fine” establishments where the performers are .. . generous.

  169. sastry says:

    Veto,

    My [limited] experience… most of the board are normal, decent folks, especially when you meet them in person. It’s tempting to take some of the arguments to heart, but it’s not a big deal. Mind you, this is not necessarily what I follow.

    S

  170. Stu says:

    morpheus,

    How about a duel in the strip club. Loser has to hang out in the men’s room until he sells 10 packages of mints. Winner gets to ‘make it to rain’, with the proceeds from the mint sales.

  171. PGC says:

    #170 Veto

    “In all seriousness, do you think you know bond math better than me? I highly doubt it. ”

    Can we make it like a game of Jepordy.

    I’ll have “Whats the Coupon on a 30/360 accrual for $100”

    Pencil and paper only no HP12 allowed.

  172. Sean says:

    Bond math question.

    James Bond is about to go on a Mission for MI6, but first he must pack his own suitcase do to budget cuts in the British Government.

    He wants to take with him a collection of suits and ties, 8 items altogether. At least 3 of these have to be suits and at least 4 ties. He has 10 different suits and 12 different ties to choose from. In how many ways can James Bond organize the collection of suites and ties he needs for the trip?

  173. Stu says:

    NG is at $2.51!!! Your energy company may pay you to heat your home this winter.

    These are 2002 prices. Think that Amaranth guy was a little early on his trade?

  174. still_looking says:

    lost,

    Bill or Eric?

    sl

  175. lostinny says:

    185 SL
    ERIC!

  176. still_looking says:

    186, lost

    :) yep! hands down HOT!

    sl

  177. lostinny says:

    187 SL

    You got mail!

  178. veto that says:

    Stu, thats funny more than anything. im really not so smart. And im not saying it in way in which i really want you to think i am. its just not my angle.
    but you dont need smarts to know the stuff we discuss here, at least not to the depth in which we discuss it. maybe just some experience, common sense, interest and a subscription to wsj but not smarts.
    But the guys who created the cdo and siv? they were smart…

  179. relo says:

    183: African or European?

  180. still_looking says:

    lost,

    You’ve got male! (NSFW) :)

    sl

  181. lostinny says:

    191 SL
    *faints*

  182. John says:

    ChiFi, I did research on GMAC and me and Bill Gross both called it. I did not buy GM bonds. BTW didn’t you buy Lehman brothers?

    JJ: that ain’t investing; it’s bungee jumping…..fine, your rubber band is short enough that you didn’t hit the ground like Wil E. Coyote…..go SANCHEZ!

  183. John says:

    Trick question, James Bond would just have a hot babe do the packing for him.

    Sean says:
    September 3, 2009 at 3:46 pm
    Bond math question.

    James Bond is about to go on a Mission for MI6, but first he must pack his own suitcase do to budget cuts in the British Government.

    He wants to take with him a collection of suits and ties, 8 items altogether. At least 3 of these have to be suits and at least 4 ties. He has 10 different suits and 12 different ties to choose from. In how many ways can James Bond organize the collection of suites and ties he needs for the trip?

  184. Nicholas says:

    @138

    Bond math question.

    James Bond is about to go on a Mission for MI6, but first he must pack his own suitcase do to budget cuts in the British Government.

    He wants to take with him a collection of suits and ties, 8 items altogether. At least 3 of these have to be suits and at least 4 ties. He has 10 different suits and 12 different ties to choose from. In how many ways can James Bond organize the collection of suites and ties he needs for the trip?

    nCr = n! / ( (n-r)!r!)

    where n = number of elements in collection and r = number of items selected

    Since we have two disparate collections of elements that can be chosen in different ways the number of combinations that can be made are simply the product of the two individual calculations (assuming that order doesn’t matter since appearance of the clothes on bond is all that matters and that he will put them on in the right oder, for example he wont wear put his tie on before his suit).

    answer = [10!/(7!3!)]*[12!/(8!4!)]

    answer = 59400 different ways to wear the suits and ties.

  185. Nicholas says:

    make money says:
    September 3, 2009 at 11:10 am
    My wife says that it’s worth buying $1,000 tickets (50K) and having a 1:30 odds of winning a home.

    Actually it isn’t worth buying 50,000$ of tickets to get a 1:30 chance of obtaining a million dollar home. The return per dollar bet would be 0.66. Even blackjack at the casino gives you better odds.

    If the 50,000$ bought you a 1:20 chance of obtaining the million dollar home then that might be something to consider.

  186. Nicholas says:

    Was there a point to the bond question?

  187. Nicholas says:

    Let me rephrase the answer to the bond question.

    answer = 59400 different ways to pack his suitcase for the ensuing trip.

  188. Sastry says:

    Nicholas #195

    Please explain why you use so many exclamation points in your post. It’s usually considered offensive.

    S

  189. LTLV says:

    One of the worst days ever on this blog.

  190. Sastry says:

    LTLV: May be you should get the mail from sl… That may cheer you up?

  191. skep-tic says:

    joke pricing continues with new september listings! pricing 1% below your neighbor whose house has been for sale since 2006 is not a winning strategy!

  192. Sean says:

    Nick, just killing time as we head into next week.

    LTLV – next week we are off to the races….

  193. Sastry says:

    LTLV: Take it easy. It’s like a slow news day or like a slow trading day on the market — not much action and general cr@p.

    I doubt the folks here have changed much in the last couple of months.

    S

  194. Victorian says:

    One of the worst days ever on this blog.

    You must be new here.

  195. BC Bob says:

    “One of the worst days ever on this blog.”

    Can’t hold a candle to Richard’s slop regarding unlimited, perpetual liquidity.

  196. relo says:

    196: Less if tax on winnings is considered.

  197. Nicholas says:

    Exclamation point is shorthand notation for “factorial”

    10! = 10*9*8*7*6*5*4*3*2*1

    You can see now why shorthand becomes valuable when these types of problems are solved.

  198. Sean says:

    Here is a pic of Veto and Chi making up over a few brews while blogging on njrereport.com

    http://9.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kp3ou0XUuY1qzzhzdo1_500.jpg

  199. veto that says:

    sean, pretty funny stuff. needed that.
    looks like chi has a chubby in that one.

  200. veto that says:

    im surprised nobody posted anything about BPs gigantic oil find in the gulf. that ought to help. eventually.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/BP-announces-giant-oil-find-apf-2273328778.html?x=0&.v=1

  201. jamil hussein says:

    I’m shocked..tax-hiking NJ politician (of unknown political affiliation) caught cheating on taxes by claiming to live in Florida.

    “An attorney for an unsuccessful Jersey City council candidate says that the city’s current Ward C Councilwoman has two identities: Nidia Lopez, the Jersey City resident and politician, and Nidia Boehringer, the Florida resident and taxpayer..

    Among the most startling, according to Jeffrey, was Lopez’s disclosure that she files her taxes in Florida, where there is no state income tax, even though she says her business – Nidia Boehringer Consulting – is based in New Jersey. Jeffrey said that Lopez has not paid New Jersey income taxes since at least 2006.

    “She avoids paying New Jersey income tax by relying on her Florida persona,” ”

    http://www.politickernj.com/matt-friedman/32882/lawyer-says-jersey-city-councilwoman-maintains-separate-identities-nj-and-florid

  202. kettle1 says:

    Veto,

    I like the beard.

    CHifi,

    i see you have been working on your burns! its a good look

  203. kettle1 says:

    Veto 211.

    the BP find in the gulf represents about 1 – 1.5 days worth of global crude consumption or about 5-6 years worth of US consumption.

    The find while helpful is negligible compared to the rate of decline in the old super giant fields that make up a significant portion of global crude supply

    There is also a very big catch in that given the depth (i.e cost) and geology of this find, that they will see less then average recovery rates at higher then average extraction costs.

  204. kettle1 says:

    opps

    that they will LIKELY see less then average recovery rates at higher then average extraction costs.

  205. Stu says:

    Come on Kettle:

    Get it straight!

  206. kettle1 says:

    green shoots

    A record 35.1 million people received food stamps in June as unemployment reached a 26-year high, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
    http://tinyurl.com/mc2qn6

  207. lostinny says:

    Oh yeah I forgot! For those of you old school industrial/goth/alternative types, The Bank (club on Houston) is having a reunion Sunday night.

  208. silera says:

    I thought they tried turning it into a strip club and couldn’t get a license.

    I was down there last weekend. I realize why I thought 30 yr olds were old when I was 16 and I realized it’s because we are.

  209. lisoosh says:

    silera says:
    September 3, 2009 at 5:44 pm

    “I was down there last weekend. I realize why I thought 30 yr olds were old when I was 16 and I realized it’s because we are.”

    No, its because 16 year olds are really young and generally bratty.

    I can’t believe how stupid I was at 18/19.

  210. chicagofinance says:

    I am so out of the loop.

    Real Burger King ad from June….

    The end is nigh….
    http://tastybooze.com/wp-content/gallery/random_pictures/bksevenincher.jpg

  211. chicagofinance says:

    Shiny Shiny…..

    WSJ
    SEPTEMBER 3, 2009, 4:16 P.M. ET
    Gold Flirts With $1000, Hits Six-Month High
    By MATT WHITTAKER

    NEW YORK — Gold’s rally on safe-haven and alternative-currency buying this week has catapulted the metal out of its summer range and poised it within inches of $1,000 an ounce.

    But if gold can’t sustain the upward momentum above that psychological benchmark, it would be vulnerable to a fall if participants decide to book profits from the strong rally.

    On Thursday, most-active December futures rose as high as $999.50 an ounce, taking out the $993.60 peak set in June and establishing the contract’s strongest point since Feb. 24, its last time above $1,000. The December contract settled at $997.70. More thinly traded contracts into next year breached the $1,000 mark, as longer-dated futures tend to be more expensive because of carrying costs.

    Gold is often bought as a hedge against economic uncertainty, dollar weakness and inflation. Although equities rose Thursday, recent declines have supported gold. The dollar and euro were also little changed, but participants may nonetheless be diversifying currency holdings into gold in hopes the metal could provide better returns.

    Friday’s U.S. nonfarm payrolls data may offer gold the boost it needs to reach a four-digit price, said Larry Young, senior trader with Infinity Futures. Economists expect payrolls to decline by 233,000 and the unemployment rate to be 9.5%.

    A weaker-than-expected reading could spark further safe-haven buying, while a stronger-than-forecast number could incite inflation-hedge buying, Young said.

    “The charts indicate we’re in an upward trend,” Mr. Young said. “We could easily be at a thousand in the blink of an eye.”

    Once gold reaches $1,000, profit-taking could cause a dip below that psychologically important mark, said Adam Klopfenstein, senior market strategist at Lind-Waldock, a division of MF Global.

    “If this market can’t take out and hold $1,000 it’s going to go right back down,” said Sterling Smith, market analyst at Country Hedging. “This market is loaded with profit on the upside.”

    Through Thursday’s peak, December gold rose nearly 5.5% from a low of $947.50 Tuesday. The rally has come as open interest has risen, a sign that traders have put on new bullish trades. Open interest is the number of unfilled or “open” contracts.

    With Friday in front of a three-day weekend for the U.S. Labor Day holiday, the question will be whether profit-taking kicks in, Mr. Smith said. “If we break this, we will be back to support levels,” he said. Those lie around $950-$960.

    “It needs fund participation and it needs to keep momentum on its side or its going to be very vulnerable to a sell-off,” Mr. Smith said.

    Mr. Klopfenstein said a bout of profit-taking will likely follow gold’s rise to $1,000, but then he sees the metal advancing again, to $1,025 — which would take out the nearby contract’s March 2008 all-time high of $1,014.60. He forecasts $1,100 gold by the end of the year.

    “We have more than one theme hitting gold,” Mr. Klopfenstein said.

    The move accelerated Wednesday on technical-chart buying above $975. Fears about bank failures are circulating and driving flight-to-quality buying in gold, Mr. Klopfenstein said.

    Further, with the low federal-funds rate and the Fed saying it is committed to a firmly rebounding economy before altering policy, there are concerns of future inflation, Mr. Klopfenstein said. The accommodative policy also makes it easier for speculators to move into the metal. “This cheap money is going into gold,” he said.

    Recent declines in equities have also spurred flight-to-quality buying in gold, and the seasonal tendency of purchases ahead of the Indian wedding season is also constructive, Mr. Klopfenstein said. India is the world’s largest buyer of gold for jewelry.

    But overall, the gold buying is speculative rather than based on supply-and-demand fundamentals, said Frank Lesh, broker and futures analyst with FuturePath Trading.

    “It’s all investment interest,” Mr. Lesh said. “It isn’t about supply. This is about being an international currency, a flight to safety.”

    Money is coming out of currencies and going into gold, not necessarily because of declines in the U.S. dollar but because participants think they will get a better return on gold, Mr. Lesh said.

    “What we have here is a lack-of-viable-currency play,” Mr. Smith said.

    Euro and U.S. dollar holders own as much of those currencies as they want at the moment, he said.

    They need to find another medium in which to put their money, and “they’re putting that money into the gold market,” Mr. Smith said.

  212. kettle1 says:

    clot

    Death print of an ETF

    Market regulators might not yet realise it, but it seems even the whiff of more regulation gets results these days. In the field of energy price speculation, nothing speaks as eloquently about the likelihood of impending new rules as the move by Deutsche Bank this week to scrap a product that lets investors bet on oil prices.

    http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/09/02/69411/death-print-of-an-etf/

  213. chicagofinance says:

    What a sh!tty day on this blog….grim is a slacker…………………………………..
    I WANT BLOOD!

  214. lostinny says:

    219 Silera
    It’s been a nightclub called Element for years. I didn’t know anything about making it a strip club.
    And I might be old but I’m not as stupid as the kids are. Now I gotta break out the old club clothes. And no, I’m not wearing any PVC.

  215. willwork4beer says:

    Lost,

    Darn it. The blog was just starting to get interesting again… :)

    “And no, I’m not wearing any PVC.”

  216. silera says:

    The strip club thing was like 7 yrs ago. I counted 3 vomiting 20 somethings on my way back to the car.

    At least I always could hold my liquor.

  217. willwork4beer says:

    OT alert:

    All of the Octoberfests and Pumpkin ales are coming out now. The relatively cool temperatures have tempted me to go there early.

    Glad I did. :)

    Cheers!

  218. still_looking says:

    Sastry, 201

    You wouldn’t want what I’m sending…. :)

    sl

  219. lostinny says:

    Beer
    Sorry. I do have some nice Cheongsam like dresses though.

  220. lostinny says:

    227 Silera
    Yeah? I’m interested to see the turn out on Sunday.

  221. still_looking says:

    Sean, 209

    the only “guy stretched out in a bathtub” worth looking at:

    http://tiny.cc/yl1Cs

    hey Lost, enjoy!

    sl

  222. lostinny says:

    SL
    You are killing me!

  223. Sastry says:

    Nick #208,

    I prefer to write out the full expansion instead of using exclamation points! You have to see my code on factorial calculations that doesn’t use recursion or goto’s :)

    Well, my attempts at humor haven’t panned out well.

    S

  224. Sastry says:

    sl #229…

    But… LTLV may like the email… otherwise, it still continues to be the worst day :)

    S

  225. grim says:

    Good lord, this place goes to hell when I don’t actively moderate!

  226. grim says:

    Ritholtz interviewed in the Ledger? What is Barry doing on this side of the Hudson?

  227. grim says:

    Interesting news. Any of the Liz crew still out there in Secaucus? Hell, do they still employ anyone out there?

    From Zero Hedge:

    Is Liz Claiborne On Road To Chapter 11?

    Who was it that posted the story here about upsetting their daughter by telling her that Juicy Couture was really just Liz Claiborne?

  228. Morpheus says:

    and now for something completely different:

    could someone please give me the status of the following MLS#:

    2499772
    2696171

    Thanks

  229. grim says:

    2696171 – Under Contract, estimated closing is 10/23
    2499772 – Expired, but listed under 2679130, in Attorney Review. Came on the market at $369,000 in 2007 and chased the market straight down to the last ask of $259,000.

  230. Morpheus says:

    thanks grim

  231. chicagofinance says:

    Did I mention that my neighbors down the street have a swastika painted on the inside of their garbage dumpster? Very nice…..I’m glad I rent….

  232. Pat says:

    Maybe it’s to scare the jewish raccoons away.

    Can you snap a pic of that?

  233. chicagofinance says:

    Update, looks like there is a sale on the tax records!
    88 West River Road, Rumson NJ
    Purchased: 9/24/2005
    Purchase Price: $6,750,000
    Sale Date: 7/10/2008
    Sale Price: $5,600,000

    Our next GTG should be here
    http://www.saltcreekgrille.com/
    even though the food is average.

    I’ll bring a BB Gun to shoot up the river at his house. It is really close….

  234. vodka (223)-

    That ETF is a piece of shit. More problems than a math book, and it should be shut down.

  235. sas says:

    son of a gun, I’ve been hood winked.

    “Anger uncorked at bottle maker Sigg over BPA”
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090903/ap_on_re_us/us_fea_lifestyles_bottle_backlash

    SAS

  236. sas says:

    “hood winked”

    man, everytime I say the word, i can’t help but to think back to 1982.

    i was caught in a major pickle out in Tierra del Fuego.

    yikes!

    SAS

  237. yikes says:

    the boise state kicker blows.

    sidenote: one night, when blackout drunk (2002?), i stumble into a cab on the UES. think i was at some dump like mad river.

    anyway, i hail a cab, and sit down and look on the ground and i see a wallet. i pick it up, open it … like the drunk i am, i take the cash and drop the wallet. it was only like $14. pad for my cab fare and a slice afterward.

    i have felt bad about it ever since.

  238. firestormik says:

    234: Sasry,
    Heh. I’ll pass this time on the quality of Indian code :)

  239. firestormik says:

    I’m sorry :(
    Sasry=Sastry

  240. sas says:

    the sun goes down, and all the bloggers brush their teeth and goto bed.

    what gives? where is the night crew?

    SAS

  241. still_looking says:

    some of us live on the other side of the clock, too.

    sl

  242. d2b says:

    Yikes:
    I’d rather watch women’s softball than footbal on a blue field.

Comments are closed.