Sun 6 Sep 2009
Ok, so that last weekend open discussion ended up a disaster, but I’ve got hope that appendages, fluids, and the jacuzzi birthing parties are all behind us know. Let’s try this again.
“What idiot was going to pay $6 million for that?”
From the Star Ledger:
(who sent me a pre-cease and desist fair use nastygram the other day, be sure to click that link a dozen times so newspapers realize just how much traffic blogs push to their sites.)
Valet parking. Hors d’oeuvres. A financial-background check and a cashier’s check for $100,000 just to participate.
Potential bidders can expect all of that in an auction of the Froh Heim mansion, the Far Hills estate that once belonged to the town’s founding family. After going on the market more than a year ago for $8.9 million, the Mediterranean-style estate is to be auctioned this month to the highest bidder, whatever the price.
…
Heritage, based in Far Hills, bought the mansion for $2.1 million in October 2007 and spent more than $1 million on renovations, Jorgensen said. The company lowered its asking price several times, finally to $5.5 million, Jorgensen said.“We’ve come very close to a couple of very serious people purchasing well over the 6’s,” she said, referring to prices of more than $6 million. “Had it been in different times, I don’t believe we’d be having this conversation.”
Maybe the last few functioning neurons in my head have checked for the weekend, but with a $2.1 million purchase, and $1m in renovations, I’m going to go out on a limb here and value the place at, oh, I don’t, know, $3.1 million maybe? What idiot considered this place at $6? What idiot priced it at almost $9?
First
There’s gold in them thar hills.
Back to the mine.
The supply for homes 1-2.5 million is well over 12-month. I bet they are using home sales from the peak for the absorption rate.
Photo gallery
http://frohheimmansion.com/gallery.php
Victorian (from prev thread)
“But when people accuse him of soc!alism, then they are just raising a bogeyman.”
I’m starting to believe you. If you look at his past (Rev Wright, Ayers), his policies and appointments, the correct term is communist.
If you get your news from NYT and other government sources this is news to you, but his eco-czar Van Jones, in charge of doling out $30B taxpayer money
(forced to resign today) openly admitted that he is a communist. Of course, he also signed 9/11 Truther statements - naturally which “did not reflect his views”, made several ant-white public statements to media (again, “did not reflect his views” in the past, and advocated active resistance to police etc).
and your fact checks wrt Messiah school speech: Since the content of the speech is a state secret, it is hard to pinpoint anything specific. Still, most normal people should find it a bit creepy (and 3rd worldish) if the President supplies study material to schools centered around his speech, including questions like “how the children can help The President”. and again, if you get your news from NYT (you know, with layers of editing and fact checking), this example can just be ignored:
Mark Steyn statement on Fox News:
“Obviously we’re not talking about the cult of personality on the kind of Saddam Hussein/Kim Jong-Il scale.”
How do you think NYT “journalists” would report this (of course, after the resignation as the need to protect The Chosen One is over):
“Mark Steyn said on Rush Limbaugh’s nationally broadcast radio show that Obama’s ambitions to create a “cult of personality” were similar to those of North Korean dictator Kim Jong Il or former Iraqi strongman Saddam Hussein.”
Ah, the benefits of the Government provided facts.
Sounds like I missed a lot yesterday.
Meanwhile, my family sold another house as part of an estate.
Priced very aggressively, got a bid in a week and a half for $20,000 less than asking. Took about 3 months to close, but done last week.
Lots of houses in the immediate area that are just sitting there.
Clot (from previous)
We have a correspondent relationship with Fifth Third; the rep tells me at least once a week she goes into the office expecting it to be her last day.
I think she’s safe. It will be cheaper for AMEX to buy it than to move their business elsewere.
Scribe
Congrats on the sale. Care to share what general area said house is in?
“We’ve come very close to a couple of very serious people purchasing well over the 6’s,” she said, referring to prices of more than $6 million. “Had it been in different times, I don’t believe we’d be having this conversation.”
Very serious people… LOL!! OMG, what a jagoff! Go gas up your Ford Focus, *moron.
maybe I have been trading derivatives for too long, but the price of something tends to be the replicating cost….. 2.1mm + 1 mm = 3.1mm
and that is at best, because that $1mm in updating was done by someone else, who may not share the same taste as you do.
Not sure where the “synergy” premium should come in.
Gary,
Can you recommend any of the headhunters you came across for SA jobs. The head of our SA group just got fu(wha)cked and I would like to send him some leads that work.
Lost,
In Woodbridge township, in the estates section of Colonia, where every property is an acre, more or less.
Big ranch, needs some updating, but big piece of property with beautiful landscaping. My uncle’s thing in retirement was gardening, and he did a fabulous job.
Some of the surrounding houses - the houses themselves are better. But nobody has landscaping that comes close.
Is this an extension of “Cash for Clunkers”
http://idle.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/07/19/1529238
This has a nice discussion on 2nd amendment rights. “What would Je4us Do? Would he carry a gun?”
“I believe he would have carried a sword, but he was so powerful, he wouldn’t have needed a gun”.This is a very funny
from fri/sat talk about food in the burbs…
there are towns in bucks county that are nearly devoid of chain restaurants. for example, newtown.
anyone give serious thought to buying on lbi?
good restaurants, nice beaches, seems like a sweet place to be in the summer.
havent looked at prices, tho…
havent looked at prices, tho…
Post hurricane…
I like houses in that Spanish style. All wrong for New Jersey though, it would be a peach in Santa Barbara.
Barbara says:
September 5, 2009 at 10:25 pm
“I have a 1st grader with eccentric tastes. He WON’T eat sandwiches, never. He won’t eat the school lunches, he will eat salads that I make or a ceaser salad st a restaurant. He also eats steak (!) which I make here at home but how the hell do you pack steak or a salad for that matter, for school lunch?”
Both my kids have their own little foibles when it comes to food, although my 2nd grader is improving.
Suggestions:
Steak and Salad - London Broil sliced thin? Sliced cucumbers, carrot sticks, cherry tomatoes with dip in place of salad.
Hard Boiled Eggs (my kids love these).
Sliced turkey with rice cakes to make their own (one of my daughters favorites).
Yogurt (my son hates cheese too, but loves yogurt and yogurt drinks).
Appendages, fluids and jacuzzi birthing parties make this blog what it is.
Guess “Death Panels” are OK if there is money to be made. Done securitizing homes? Now securitize peoples lives.
Even better -health insurance companies should be buying this stuff up. Then they can benefit even MORE when they deny coverage to their policy holders. SCORE - two for the price of one profiteering.
Sigh.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/business/06insurance.html?_r=1&hp
After the mortgage business imploded last year, Wall Street investment banks began searching for another big idea to make money. They think they may have found one.
The bankers plan to buy “life settlements,” life insurance policies that ill and elderly people sell for cash…… Then they plan to “securitize” these policies, in Wall Street jargon, by packaging hundreds or thousands together into bonds. They will then resell those bonds to investors, like big pension funds, who will receive the payouts when people with the insurance die.
The earlier the policyholder dies, the bigger the return — though if people live longer than expected, investors could get poor returns or even lose money.
And yes I realize that they have been sold for years.
Just as mortgages were.
Securitization, the lure of quick, easy and low risk profits appear to turn legitimate financial transactions into engines of despair once these genius number crunchers get their hands on them.
home, home at last.
Scribe
I spent the first 30 yrs of my life in Colonia.
sl
And Vic (from prev thread)
Vic
“…soc!ialism is the farthest from what we are experiencing right now. Corporate fascism is more like it.”
Uhm, no.
Unless you can explain how 50% of the population being supported by the other half is not soc!alism.
This country is in for a huge train wreck but not for the reasons you think. It won’t be the bottom half revolting, but the upper half as they tire of supporting people with whom they differ substantially on most levels
lisooh,
my thoughts exactly when looking at the Spanish colonial manz, lovely but screams mafia in the NE. Also, that kitchen is so pretentious it hurts my head.
I am going to try the sliced steak for school lunch since his lunch period is a little earlier and I won’t be so wigged out about spoiling.
MADMEN TONIGHT!
Don Draper Is My Co-Pilot
23:
The ultra far-left wacko who resigned today called himself a “revolutionary marxist” and ecoactivism as a way to “overthrow capitalism”. Yeah, that is exactly the kind of guy who should be in charge of $30B, ecoactivism and transforming new economy in the US. Did I mention that he was also open supporter of convicted cop-killer Mumia?
But hey, it is only right-wing smear to bring up these things. The things he said to media, the signatures he signed and the organizations he headed “do not reflect his views”. Implying otherwise is smear. Got it?
26 jamil
the Right got it right on this one. They continue to get it wrong on the School Address and health care.
FYI, some Spam links on this old page
http://njrereport.com/index.php/2008/04/30/reasons-to-be-a-renter/
what a trip down memory lane!
reading posts from (gasp!) ‘06!!!
I really really really miss BOOOOYAH Bob. :(
sl
21.lisoosh says:
September 6, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Guess “Death Panels” are OK if there is money to be made. Done securitizing homes? Now securitize peoples lives.
Even better -health insurance companies should be buying this stuff up. Then they can benefit even MORE when they deny coverage to their policy holders. SCORE - two for the price of one profiteering.
Sigh.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/business/06insurance.html?_r=1&hp
After the mortgage business imploded last year, Wall Street investment banks began searching for another big idea to make money. They think they may have found one.
The bankers plan to buy “life settlements,” life insurance policies that ill and elderly people sell for cash…… Then they plan to “securitize” these policies, in Wall Street jargon, by packaging hundreds or thousands together into bonds. They will then resell those bonds to investors, like big pension funds, who will receive the payouts when people with the insurance die.
The earlier the policyholder dies, the bigger the return — though if people live longer than expected, investors could get poor returns or even lose money.
L: I am seen quite a bit of this stuff. If this site was the FLREReport website, you would know more people involved and details. I do not know the downside for the humans with the price on their head. However, if you get past the vile and morbid aspects of it, it seems like some extra money.
The ripoff aspect for the seniors is the idea that IF they were going to bother and get involved with such a scheme, then they should be better compensated.
However, if the view is these people just end up with more money, then it’s really more caveat emptor on the investor side. As it has always been for every piece of securitized sausage spit out by the Street.
Barbara: If it helps at all, when I was a kid, all I ate was red meat and coke. It got to the point where my mom made the regular meal, and a side meal of either hamburger or roast beef for me and a potato.
When I was a latchkey kid, my mom would give me $10 for dinner. I would either order Chinese food (spare ribs, wonton soup, and beef and broccoli) or stop at the Dan’s Supreme supermarket on the way home from the subway, and buy a package of Oscar Meyer bacon and Welch’s frozen grape juice pops. I would cook the entire pound of bacon and eat it and eat all 6 ice pops for dinner. If and answer the door when she got home from work and my teeth were purple and the house smelled like cooked grease, she’d know what I did.
I turned out OK (vito and skep FU). I eat regular food now.
33.
ChiFi
I does help! I have to remind myself that from 1st to 5th grade I ate the exact same brown bag lunch every day. Lebanon salami with cheese and mustard on Wonder bread.
“L: I am seen quite a bit of this stuff. If this site was the FLREReport website, you would know more people involved and details. I do not know the downside for the humans with the price on their head. However, if you get past the vile and morbid aspects of it, it seems like some extra money.”
Chi - after calming down, and reading through some of the comments, it seems the concept itself isn’t horrible and appears to be OK’ish (though full of fraud) on a small scale.
I can’t help but get the impression though that removing it from a niche market, padding it up and moving it to the mainstream (increasing a few zero’s to the bottom line) is going to get us up the same creek we are trying to back out of.
These analysts/salespeople/quants, whatever they are just seem to dig around playing with numbers till they come up with a concept people bite on. Of course there is interest -there will always be interest in seemingly easy, low risk money. Duh. Doesn’t make it good.
L: If it helps at all, I think the arb is that the i-banks try to smell out insurance companies that are mispricing insurance. So if the idea is that you go get five quotes and they come back $5; $5; $5; $5; $3; $5…then you go find the people that would qualify for the $3 rates and stock up; sell $5 insurance on the same coverage so you collect $2; then use part of the $2 for a credit default swap in the size enough to cover the potential collection. Whatever is left of the $2 beyond the cost of the CDS is profit. Part of it you give to the person insured.
Honestly, if you know someone older than about 65-70 in perfect health and they need money, go make some calls.
Is it called COLI? I guess I should go back and read the article.
Barbara - my nephew lived on a diet of only hot dogs and Mac n Cheese until he was 12. He turned out ok. Makes me feel just a little bit better about Lil Gator - at least he eats corn on the cob. We can’t make him a sandwich either. The only bread he will eat (outside of french toast - the kid will eat anything for breakfast) is crackers , croutons and pigs in a blanket made with veggie dogs and crescent rolls. It just kills me.
L: The comments section is hilarious. Right out of central casting.
To be clear, yeah it is ostensibly on human heads, but in reality, it is “drive poorly managed life insurance companies to death gambling”. If you hate “greedy” life insurance companies then you should love this innovation.
chicagofinance says:
September 6, 2009 at 6:09 pm
“L: If it helps at all, I think the arb is that the i-banks try to smell out insurance companies that are mispricing insurance.”
Sorry Chi, doesn’t help. The I-banks didn’t exactly do a good job smelling out the mortgage companies dodgy deals.
If you go back and read the article, they list the pros and cons. I also recommend digging through the comments. Yes there are plenty of emotional ones, but a lot of good points in there too.
End of the day -the life settlement concept doesn’t bother me. The securitization and commodotization does.
Barb
The Right got it right on the school address. They made him back off the offensive parts - write a letter how you can help the president. Guess he figured out that latest polls indicate 53% would like to IMPEDE his policies. I never had a problem with him getting on the tube and telling kids the merits of working hard and staying in school.
Re: healthcare, I have come 180 degrees and hope the Libs pass it under reconciliation. If so, the program will be such an inevitable s***show they will pay at the polls for at least two presidential cycles. It’s been hilarious watching the Dems argue every Sunday morning that the reason they got buried in the midterm elections after Hillarycare failed was because they DIDN’T pass it. No. They lost the midterms because of the arrogance and misdirection of trying to nationalize healthcare - most swing voters just don’t want it. They are effectively doubling down on a losing hand and they will be even more roundly defeated if they pass it this time.
leftwing, ask your average VA recipient or Medicare retiree how they feel about their coverage and if in fact they would rather turn it over to a large for profit corporation. When the grannie loud mouths
at the town halls ask to give back their coverage in exchange for a private healthcare plan, I will disagree with them, but will respect their consistency. Until then, they are just going to the party to be part of the spectacle.
We already have socialized health care. I pay higher premiums because the law of the land will not allow hospitals to turn away the emergency room charity cases.
Instead of paying 11k in premiums with an additional 5 k deductible every year, I’d rather have my taxes go up 3k a year while I can buy a low deductible plan for a fraction of the price.
Oh, and rationing? Yeah, been there, done that. They are called HMOs.
The right in this country have a breathing taking stubborn streak when it comes to their counter intuitive opinions and voting patterns on key issues that actually affect their lives.
leftwing/vic:
““…soc!ialism is the farthest from what we are experiencing right now. Corporate fascism is more like it.””
soc!ialism and national-soc!ialism are basically the same ideologies (state control, national healthcare, anti-semitism, banning free media etc).
O’s science czar advocated mass-sterilizations and forced abortions. Sounds like the right guy to be O’s Science Czar. O’s Global Warming Scaremonger Czar is also a self-admitted soc!ialist. The Diversity Czar presented the great idea that “private broadcasters (private business) should pay a licensing fees which equals their total operating costs”. Yeah, that should get rid of those pesky critical comments found in one remaining TV channel not loyal to the President.
I’m not sure if there are any Czars who are not soc!ialists or national-soc!ialists.
Of course, it is smear accusing this admin to be soc!ialist or communist. Btw, let’s nationalize 1/6 of the economy. It leads to better healthcare for everybody and saves money. Really, it does. O said so and the lobbyists and industry cronies who made secret deals with White House have confirmed this.
Barb
I hear you, but come to a different conclusion regarding political ramifications.
Agree the VA and Medicare recipient are generally satisfied. They, however, are not your swing voter and to the extent they are swing voters OCare alters their benefits. Even if OCare doesn’t decrease those benefits (arguably OCare does) nobody likes change to something they are satisfied with - lost votes there.
The ones pushing for Ocare are already pretty solidly in the Dem column. Passage really doesn’t get the Dems many more votes among the faithful. They’ve got religion already.
The 12m truly uninsurable - probably won’t even know their insurance status changed and don’t vote anyway. Deeper societal problems there. You’re right, they are the ones hitting SL’s ER in serious states of disrepair. That won’t change by changing payors so the costs don’t go down. We’ll just be funding their care out of the left pocket rather than the right. No net change in costs or votes there.
The big, fat middle - working family, doing OK but not great, hasn’t experienced a financially calamitous healthcare issue, and while not pleased necessarily with their plan and the current system are wary of change particularly when the government is involved - those ARE the swing voters and the ones you lose in droves by moving them to OCare. All that anger they have for the HMOs - guess what, that will be directed at the government now and expressed at the polls. Bye-bye Senate and House.
Lastly, a good number of swing voters are highly sensitive to the deficit. OCare will suck up exponents of forecast expenditures - think Medicare, Post Office, Amtrak forecasts vs. actual. Swing votes lost there even if the program isn’t that bad.
The game plan again for Reps and Cons should be to stay as far away from this potential debacle as possible. That will force a Dem line vote which means the outcome will be even more liberal than otherwise, make it more likely to fail on the above counts, and hang it entirely on the Dems. When it implodes swoop in and pick up the pieces. Kind of like post the debacle that was the Carter presidency which turned over the House for the first time in a generation and kept the Dems wandering in the desert for nearly 20 years. Passage of this may actually result in us getting two more Presidential cycles of a Ronnie equivalent, plus the Senate and House. Reagan Revolution II.
Dems are nuts if they think moving health care administration to the government will win them swing votes, and swing votes are what win elections. Hurray for public option and single payor!
leftwing:
“while not pleased necessarily with their plan and the current system ”
Actually, vast majority of voters are happy with their current health plan.
Rasmussen “There’s also the reality that 74% of voters rate the quality of care they now receive as good or excellent.”
That 74% of voters is pretty relevant part of electorate..
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Foreign markets are becoming a source of strength for U.S. producers, helping shrink the trade deficit in one of the few bright spots in the global recession.
The international trade report will be one of the top economic stories of the coming week, along with data on consumer credit, consumer sentiment and unemployment benefits. The Federal Reserve will also release its Beige Book report, an anecdotal account of the economy designed to dig beneath the hard numbers to find deeper truths.
It’ll be a relatively quiet week for data, and markets may pay as much attention to politics as to the economic data, with Congress returning to Washington and President Barack Obama giving a major speech on health care to the assembled lawmakers
Jamil
I’m with you. Implementing OCare is analogous to forcing people to move from Microsoft to Apple. Microsoft s*cks, not everyone who has it likes it, and Apple is the better system. But if you force the move and expose people to the dislocation of change, they resent it.
The only problem with the analogy is that it is doubtful OCare is Apple to the HMO’s Microsoft….
I’m serious, on principle I’ve argued Ocare should not happen. I’ve now abandoned all principle to become a political animal. Go, OCare, go! Rep-Con Congress in 2010!
With medical costs soaring, more Americans are seeking care in foreign lands, resulting in a healthy prognosis for some stocks, reports Barron’s Leslie Norton
http://www.marketwatch.com/video/asset/bangkok-bypass-surgery-2009-09-05/DBB1112D-69F5-4DF1-81AA-BBB605757860
pgc (7)-
Great. I can just imagine how nice it will be to sell mortgages from American Express.
Actually, the smart money is on GS to swoop in and vulture Fifth Third at the hour of imminent doom.
If you think about it, it makes a lot of sense and is actually a good fit.
As much as anything is a good fit with the spawn of Satan.
Chi (33)-
As God is my witness, my mom smoked three packs of Salem Longs a day and drank Jim Beam the whole time she was preggers with me.
Other than my premature delivery, failure to thrive and low birthweight, the rest of my life has pretty much been a dinner cruise.
“I turned out OK (vito and skep FU)”
all the bacon grease might have made your head swell a bit. other than that you seem completely normal.
I found some northeast household income data and matched it against NJ med home prices to calculate the ratio.
All from the census archives…
NJ Price to NE Med HH Income
2006 6.9
2000 3.9
1990 5.0
1980 3.3
1975 3.4
Would love to see the 2009 updated numbers. I would guess we are around 4.0-5.0x income today. thats a guess though…
44. leftwing
here’s the rub. Those charity cases are increasingly middle class and uninsured. Often, they could afford the care but choose not to get coverage, instead saving that 800-1000 monthly on goodies. These are the asswipes that I’m paying for. Reform would require everyone to pay in who can afford to do so. The very poor won’t pay in now and won’t pay in after reform, so its awash, however by everyone paying IN and deductibles becoming a relic of the old system, hospitals won’t be able to justify the 10 dollar tylenol.
Further, its naive (not you, the Rep, Con general stance on this issue) to assume that people who are covered are paying in. They are, to the extent that premiums are paid monthly and copays at doc’s offices are being paid up. But, when it hits the fan and that 5k deductible kicks in? Fuhgetaboutit. How many people do you know with 5-10k lying around? These “insured” stick hospitals with these deductibles all the time.
Insurance and health care do not share a common interest and should not be associated with one another.
I posted on Hoboken411 for the first time in a while….
Regarding the new Maxwell Place pier park.
In response to spoon who said:
Can someone say CONCRETE. talking about being cheap with the finishes. Brick pavers and some grass and plants would have been nice there.
When people see Maxwell Place they see luxury but i see a lot of concrete, asphalt and stone. big conrete wall, weird ass conrete tree planters, concrete sidewalks, asphalt road, lots of big rocks along the water and beach, big new conrete slab of a park, big conrete slab pier
23. chicagofinance
September 6th 2009 - 20:26:22 |
spoon: dead-on
What a sinfully stupid set of decisions that just screams….cheap Toll crap. On a comfortable sunny Labor Day weekend, the concrete field combined with all the concrete and glass on the building turn the place into a solar energy array.
All you need to know about how stinking hot it is there, for the first time in my life I actually saw a welcome mat dried to crisp. It was on the ground in front of the ONE ground floor unit sold. I looked like a fried pork rind
55.
ChiFi
Retro Brut architecture?
I learned me something today. I am reading the book that my friend from high school wrote about real estate in the U.S. and the history from the Great Depression to now. She a chapter on Sacramento…..she noted a term used by all of the publicly traded home builders….”value engineering”….(a.k.a. euphemism for cutting corners and fcukinig over the purchaser by every means possible in the construction process in the name of cost efficiency).
I think the example was a driveway surface that was improperly bedded and the surface was diluted to 45% of required materials. It would break apart within 4-5 years - BY DESIGN.
BTW - when I finish the book, I will report on it, but I LOVE it. I think a lot of you would like it too. I can’t get over the amount of first person accounts. Unless she is a muckraking version of Jayson Blair, she really broke her back research this stuff.
my realtor was explaining that he thought most of the price correction is done and he quoted the average home price in cars to prove his point.
“Avg price is at about 7 toyota prius cars right now. That seems about the right price for a home. most of the correction is probably behind us.”
umm, anyone care to comment about that? im lost for words.
or maybe it was 11 prius, i forget the number he used.
51. that explains so much.
joking….of course.
I’ve done some reporting on life settlements, about a year ago.
The problem is that life insurers offer very little in the way of cash value if people want or need to cash out, and there are a lot of elderly or aging boomers with big policies who don’t need the coverage any more - their kids are grown.
There are some issues about how often the buyer of the policy can call the insured to check up.
I wouldn’t want to get involved in selling a policy to a third party who was waiting for me to die.
It’s a bit creepy, but the i-b’s are able to buy policies because the cash values are too low.
The insurers are complaining because they count on a certain number of people allowing their policies to lapse later in life when they can’t or don’t want to maintain the premiums any more.
Pure profit for them.
The solution is for the life insurers to match the offers being made by the i-bs.
But this is indeed becoming a big business. Lots of legislation in lots of states. Last time I checked - close to 40 states.
chi,
I didn’t see a post with the title of the book?
scribe: Our Lot by Alyssa Katz, but I want to finish it before I fully endorse it. From my perspective, she has written a pragmatic book and has held onto her objectivity. I am about 60% done, but I want to see whether she follows through to the end. I am hopeful she will.
The reason I posted is that “value engineering” really pissed me off. I am convinced now that no one should ever buy any mass produced real estate property. I would always buy something that has stood the test of time, or else, be responsible for your own construction.
chi,
I will look it up.
59.
Veto,
personally I prefer the Starbucks latte method. My realtor knows I won’t pay a penny over 12,8571 lattes.
Barb
I respect your opinion but regardless of what’s done healthcare costs in the next decades are going up - radically. No way to change it, it’s the pig passing through the python of the boomers reaching late in life high cost consumption.
The inevitably of the increased costs is why I hope OCare passes from a political perspective. They are catching a bag of **** thrown from the tenth floor. It’s going to be ugly for them.
It’s impossible to expand coverage, not ration, and decrease the rate of growth in expenditures.
The Health care problem is an easy fix. 45 Million out of a population of 310 million have no coverage.
1/3 are illegal immigrants, about 15 million, send em home I say.
And the rest? The remaining 30 million? Well they need jobs, so how about a nice WPA program to get them working with coverage?
Oh, and Barb, you will be paying for it.
While your premiums may decrease, your taxes will go up.
leftwing,
prices are currently artificially high because costs are buffered by way of third party (insurance companies) so no one gets a real bill and hospitals and doctors get to charge 130 dollars for a 5 minute office visit.
The truth? Eliminate all insurance, make it a cash out only business forcing doctors and hospitals to get competittive with pricing and services while providing universal care to catastrophic care only.
This would cut down on costs and eliminate the charity work, except we as a society would have to have the balls to turn away those that won’t or can’t pay. If it were truly a competitive market, prices would be forced down to affordable so that beer and marlboros money for the month could go toward an office visit for the kid, excuses would be hard to come by.
This is what my universe would look like. I know it would never happen.
Andrew Sullivan:
“When the health insurance bill is passed and elderly Americans are not rounded up into concentration camps and granny isn’t subjected to euthanasia, and when many uninsured people gain a peace of mind they have never felt before, and people become able to change job without fearing loss of insurance, the Republican scare tactics may come to seem absurd.”
Barb
Wow. Marry me.
Here I thought I had a bleeding heart on my hands. You’re a soulmate.
You nailed it. The answer is less government intervention and more transparency and choice. OCare doesn’t get us there. It complicates and obfuscates.
70.
Leftwing.
Like I said earlier, 15k for my current plan or 1/3 of that with a 3k tax increase?
You see, people really can do the math on this one.
67 correction
128,571 lattes
Damn, that’s a lotta drink.
Grim
I’ve fallen for Barb and proposed to her in my last post, which is in moderation. Very embarrassing. Help.
lol
128,571 lattes…
that sounds about right for a house.
it also helps if you get paid in big macs.
Barbara says:
September 6, 2009 at 10:01 pm
leftwing,
prices are currently artificially high because costs are buffered by way of third party (insurance companies) so no one gets a real bill and hospitals and doctors get to charge 130 dollars for a 5 minute office visit.
The truth? Eliminate all insurance, make it a cash out only business forcing doctors and hospitals to get competittive with pricing and services while providing universal care to catastrophic care only.
This would cut down on costs and eliminate the charity work, except we as a society would have to have the balls to turn away those that won’t or can’t pay. If it were truly a competitive market, prices would be forced down to affordable so that beer and marlboros money for the month could go toward an office visit for the kid, excuses would be hard to come by.
If you make them pay cash for everything but a catastrophic condition, conditions will be getting catastrophic in no time. Do you know that the people without dental insurance coverage have 85% less cleanings but 4 times more extractions than those with one? (And you can get a cleaning for $100 if you shop around…)
Perusing the GSMLS listings for Glen Ridge, I find this Cape, a forclosure listed for $259,000 with taxes of 11k. How long do you think it will take the bank to unload this beauty, with the following listing description:
“”Sold AS IS”, buyer responsible for all inspections & C.O., expanded family room, IG pool, newer kitchen, hardwood floors, seller discloses a failed oil tank inspection, no soil samples taken.”
Grim - I saw listing 2704240 for a Reserve short sale. What makes the listing agent think this 2BR unit can sell for $755k while a townhouse unit is listed for $499k. What’s so special about this place? $19k+ in taxes and $750/month in association fees…yikes!
cobbler,
I don’t consider a root canal catastrophic. I don’t think you give a great example of why that proposal would fail. Anyone who actually gets professional cleanings every 6 months is a dupe and needs to just invest 60 bux for a Sonic.
A lot of wealthy New Yorkers pay cash for their MDs and other procedures. The Docs don’t take insurance.
Your theories on this subject are as moronic though as most of the stuff posted her this weekend.
The blog gets pretty lame from Friday through Sunday. We need those productive cube dwellers to contribute.
Our pediatrician stopped accepting insurance starting Aug 1st, stating it doesn’t cover the cost. Guess what, with $95 a visit tag, we still had to wait for an hour a week ago. With all that crap about universal health care, guys, if you love to keep shelling ~25% of your money to the insurance companies, with more and more crappier coverage, good luck! In the last 8 years the premium was doubled for our company. Do you think it’s sustainable? Yes, our taxes will go up, but 25% of overhead comparing with Medicaid 4%? And yes, if properly done you’ll still be able to buy private insurance like in Canada
productive cube dwellers posting habitually on an internet blog during work hours? Oxymoronic.
Barbara,
That’s what been puzlling me for a long time.
firestorm,
when I hear about docs who stop taking insurnace i wonder if it has more to do with the extra staff and time paid to collect the unpaid claims from insurers. My docs have had a balance out on me for 1 year, not my fault but rather an administrative snafu on the part of the billing dept. We just resolved it last week. Since BCBS is my insurer I have to assume that this happens a lot. If they have two staffers who just deal with collecting the money that they aren’t getting and it takes a year….well, that seems like expensive man power needed to stay in business.
re: #82 Essex- “The blog gets pretty lame from Friday through Sunday.”
Wonderful contributions you have made no? NOT!
http://search.yahoo.com/search?n=10&ei=UTF-8&va_vt=any&vo_vt=any&ve_vt=any&vp_vt=any&vd=all&vf=all&vm=p&fl=0&fr=yfp-t-501&p=Essex&vs=njrereport.com
Barbara,
Our doc said he was hit with 9K bill for vaccines that wasn’t or partially covered by Oxford, not sure exactly what happened. He had 2 assistants and let go one of them a year ago.
Anyway, I don’t know what to do now, since my plan is HMO, I’m eager to pay $95 out of my pocket but in that case I’m not able to get referrals for the kid to any other doctors. In the current state, the healthcare is fkuced in the US. And O is right, no matter how I despise him. What bothers me, I don’t believe these clowns can make it right They’ll most likely make it worse
Meh.
barbara [81]
Neither do I - but many people, especial-ly stretched financial-ly (I am not talking about Manhattanites using concierge doctors) will avoid going to see the doc until it hurts really bad, and then you see heart attacks, stage IV cancers and kidney failures. Even small deductible is viewed as an avoidable expense when you need money for a new flat screen TV (or to pay the utility bills - it depends), service utilization drops big time once the deductible is put in place (when there was none before). The “right-sized” deductible (or what one actually sees as a visit charge) should be high enough to discourage “nuisance” doctor visits and low enough to not make the people “walk wounded” just to avoid the expense. I guess, making the primary care doc’s visit charge very low, and speci.alist’s much higher (not $20/$30 or so like now but rather $10/$150) will go a long way to reduce the overall health bill.
Just my 2 cents - the Dems should consider portraying the public option as a coverage floor rather than something designed to compete with the Aetna, UHC, etc. Or repackage Romneycare and sell it on a national level. Or see what minor tweaks to the existing system would get more folks insured. A lot of families are looking at premiums of $1500-2000 per month, w/o pre-existing conditions. It’s almost better to roll the dice.
91.
“A lot of families are looking at premiums of $1500-2000 per month, w/o pre-existing conditions. It’s almost better to roll the dice.”
we’ve considered rolling the dice but decided against it because we have assets that would be seized by collectors should anything bad happen. I consider it asset insurance, not health insurance.
90.
some of this could be avoided by making check ups and certain routine tests mandatory if you want access to the catastrophic insurance.
Barbara says:
September 7, 2009 at 12:10 am
90.
some of this could be avoided by making check ups and certain routine tests mandatory if you want access to the catastrophic insurance.
It is impossible to enforce - what are you supposed to do when the guy shows up in the ER with the massive heart attack and you’ve learned he never went for a physical - throw him into the street?
RE: Andrew Sullivan
Sullivan suffers from Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID).
Here’s Andrew Sullivan from 9/14/2003:
=======================================
Reading this essay by Wesley Clark, I have to say I’m not reassured that he has what it takes to wage a war on terror. If he had been president, the war in Afghanistan would probably not have taken place, let alone the war against Saddam.
His first instinct after the deadliest act of war against the American heartland in history was to help the United Nations set up an International Criminal Tribunal on International Terrorism. I’m not even making that up. Maybe Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia could head up the committee.
If I were to imagine a parody of what a Rhodes Scholar would come up with in such a moment, I’d be hard pressed to come up with something more perfect. His insistence throughout the piece is on process, process, process. Everything is seen through the prism of NATO’s Kosovo campaign, his one claim to military glory. Can you imagine having to get every special ops target in Afghanistan approved by 19 different countries, including those who opposed any action against the Taliban? Can you even begin to imagine constructing a case for any action in Iraq under similar auspices? It simply wouldn’t have happened. Which is the point.
It’s important to remember that under the last administration, almost nothing happened to address the genocide in the Balkans until the genocide had taken place. Why? Because we needed a consensus from all the Europeans to even wipe our collective ass. And the Europeans couldn’t agree on anything in the 1990s. Have you noticed greater unanimity since?
There’s also no sense in Clark’s essay about other agendas from our allies. It’s all very well to achieve maximum international consensus on every international action. But what if you cannot get it? What if you cannot get the U.N. even to live up to its own resolutions, let alone American priorities? What if a critical “ally”, like France, has a firm policy of thwarting American power - wherever and whenever it is waged? The notion that Bush created such a French policy is a fantasy. Clark’s foreign policy strikes me as an abdication of foreign policy. That was dangerous in the 1990s. It would be fatal now.
http://betsyspage.blogspot.com/2003/09/andrew-sullivan-is-not-impressed-with.html
=======================================
94
cobbler,
this is what I was saying in the earlier post, we don’t have the stomach for enforcing personal responsibility on any level so I would never happen. So, I support a public option. At the very least it will work as well as medicare if thats the standard.
96 Barbara
The problem is that Medicare expense grows like mushrooms and will continue to do so unless there is a political will to slow it down. The best way to do it obviously is to reduce the amount of unnecessary care that we’ve read so much about recently; in reality, I don’t believe it could be done unless we somehow force the doctors into the salaried employment (like Mayo clinic). Short of that (and with current doctors’ incentives staying in place) we are stuck with rationing: either explicitly listing the procedures or drugs for which Medicare won’t pay (cost/benefit analysis and not just being allowed by FDA), or telling the patient with life expectancy below certain number (based on medical review, not age) no aggressive treatments will be paid for, or reducing the providers’ reimbursements across the board to fit the pre-set budget. In the current political environment neither option can be implemented, so we just need to get into a fetal position and wait till this beast eats us out of house and home.
97 cobbler
really? so switerland, france, denmark, all figured it out and achieved a high rate of sucess with life expectancy and satisfaction. We just can’t get this thing done? 10 billion a week in iraq but we just can’t afford a public option? We can’t even try it out, put an expiration date on it into law, have it privatized if it fails to meet budget? Too lofty a goal?
really?
The “right-sized” deductible (or what one actually sees as a visit charge) should be high enough to discourage “nuisance” doctor visits and low enough to not make the people “walk wounded” just to avoid the expense.
The hassle with getting an appointment, driving to the doctor’s office, and waiting there for a long time, should prevent most of the nuisance visits. There will always be one man or woman that will “live in the hospital” but that is more of a fodder for talk shows rather than for regular analysis.
S
Happy Birthday Grim!
Happy Birthday to you, Grim! It’s my dad’s b’day today, too!!
sl
Grim - I saw listing 2704240 for a Reserve short sale. What makes the listing agent think this 2BR unit can sell for $755k while a townhouse unit is listed for $499k. What’s so special about this place? $19k+ in taxes and $750/month in association fees…yikes!
The last 2br unit is the comp to use. Unfortunately, it closed lower than $499k, and much much lower than $755k.
I’m in love with that townhouse unit, but for $2,300+ a month in taxes and maintenance, without even touching the mortgage? No thanks.
I read this little tidbit somewhere and it made me think.
If you think you really own your own property, try not paying your property taxes.
I guess in reality we are all just long-term leasing and the “rent” (taxes) are determined by our landlord (state, local, municipal tax assessors.) So if our landlord is strapped for cash…..he has unlimited rights to raise our taxes.
Only recourse is to find someone else to assume the yoke (buy your place) so you can get out.
sl
grim , where is that townhouse?
2k per month taxes,,, good grief
750 association,, this i want to see
Glen Ridge, that fancy new development called “The Reserve at Glen Ridge”. Near the Bloomfield Ave and Ridgewood Ave intersection.
The $19k in taxes were probably appropriate when these units were selling near $800k a pop, and some closer to the $1m mark.
But when they are selling in the 4’s? Not quite right.
From Rutgers (hat tip CR):
“The Anguish of Unemployment”
A comprehensive national survey conducted among 1,200 Americans nationwide who have been unemployed and looking for a job in the past 12 months, including 894 who are still jobless, portrays a shaken, traumatized people coping with serious financial and psychological effects from an economic downturn of epic proportion.
The survey, conducted and released by the John J. Heldrich Center for Workforce Development, a research and policy center at Rutgers University, is one of the first and most comprehensive national scientific samples of unemployed Americans during the present recession. It provides an in-depth portrait of the social and economic experiences of unemployed Americans as they are occurring now.
grim:
thats insane , the glen ridge
property. have they sold many over there?
to who?
capitalismalovestory.com/
Happy B’Day Grim. Now it’s time to mow the lawn.
Grim: Happy Birthday
and… thanks for making this blog possible. Coin in the box…
July 2009 Weehawken resale comps
http://tinyurl.com/nwsu2k
Happy Birthday, Grim. Hope you have a great day!
Happy Birthday!
Barbara: Most voters (~70%) are happy with their current health plans. Of the uninsured, large portion are illegal parasites or their legal anchor babies.
Instead of letting the famously incompetent and corrupt government to nationalize the health sector, how about starting with couple of minor improvements:
1: Getting rid of current malpractice scheme where john edwards like scam artists can steal millions. (Of course, as long as trial lawyers dole out $400M to dems this won’t happen). Malpractice premiums make health care very expensive and it discourages doctors to stay in the practice. Let’s just move to scheme similar in Europe in this area.
2: Let hospitals to deny non-emergency care from illegals and report them. This would dramatically lower the cost to everyone (as the hospital would not have to collect their fees from you anymore) and it would also discourage illegal immigration (further reducing the public spending).
3: Tackle health care fraud (ie harsher penalties, more inspection and audits by private investigators)
I’m sort of curious to know if those who voted for the Annointed One would vote the same way today.
veto (60)-
The proper plural for Prius is Prii.
BTW, your agent is a dick.
left (75)-
Wait ’til she turns on you.
sx (82)-
Several docs in my neck of the woods only take cash…no insurance.
They are very good docs, too.
#59 Veto - Love it! Although I prefer to divide the average price of a home by two, then multiply it by the number of computer terminals at the nearest libray and then divide by the number of drawer pulls in the kitchen.
Library, even.
Barb (96)-
Silly me. I thought the whole idea of personal responsibility is that it doesn’t have to be enforced by some third party.
Your utopian what ifs are actually a great example of why liberal policies never work. They just don’t take human nature into account.
“…we don’t have the stomach for enforcing personal responsibility on any level”
A great many problems in healthcare can be solved by increasing competition and tying the patient (consumer) to payment for services.
No product can be competitively priced or efficiently delivered if the user is not responsible in some form for the payment of what he is consuming.
These two ends do not need $1T of new spending and a massive new fed program.
Here’s a simple proposal:
Have the Feds establish a menu of standardized coverage options that would cover most personal situations and stages of life. About a dozen should suffice (high premium, low deductible; catastrophic only; etc.). Allow movement over time among the options without considering it a change of coverage/policies.
Offer current insurers the opportunity to sell these, but only these specific options, nationally directly to consumers.
Provide the individual similar tax incentives (revenue neutral) employers enjoy currently relating to healthcare.
Let us go shopping.
Premiums will fall, you’ve addressed the portability and pre-existing condition issues, and you don’t have the government on the hook for the costs.
Government here is the referee calling the game, not a principal in the transactions.
One of my serious issues with OCare is that it doesn’t address the most basic problem in the current system (consumers divorced from payment for services), it just moves this destined-to-fail situation on the government’s (my) books.
barb (98)-
Now you use moribund welfare states as an example (ok, I’ll grant you Switzerland is a cut above that)?
Read up on depression, alcoholism and absenteeism in Scandinavian countries. It’s through the roof. Those countries are so collectivized, there’s no impetus to work. And, these are homogeneous societies, where’s it’s supposedly easier to institute the “one for all, all for one” madness.
All I want from my gubmint is to go away and leave me alone.
#71 Barbara - That’s sort of the way it was when I was a kid. We had “hospitalization” coverage only. My parents paid 100% out of pocket for all office visits, immunizations, etc. When Mom needed surgery, she got it and they set up a payment plan for what insurance didn’t cover. Medical care was part of the household budget, like food and clothes. And you know what else? People used to SAVE UP to pay the doctor bills BEFORE they had a baby! It’s a tough problem and I don’t know what the perfect solution is, but I think you’re pretty close. I do think a lot of people would stiff their doctors though. People just aren’t used to actually paying for the services they receive.
Outofstater: That was the time before trial lawyers..
How about regulating trial lawyers instead of doctors? Ie if you happen to be sitting president accused of lying under oath, you need to wait 10 months (just like everybody else) until your state appointed first year law associate takes your case.
Happy chest hair to you.
Happy chest hair to you.
Happy chest hair dear biker boy.
Happy chest hair to you.
clot: use “dystopia” in a sentence…
#114,
I hate to agree with Jamil, but this time around I must.
gary, #115
On would you vote for Obama again.
There wasn’t much of a choice. McCain was clearly senile, and no way was Sarah Palin capable.
And Hillary redux … ugh
Grim,
Happy birthday!
Chi (127)-
One man’s dystopia is Clotpoll’s paradise.
Give me an AK-47, a couple of bull terriers, a razor wire perimeter and a garden plot.
I’m good to go.
I’d wish everyone a happy Labor Day, but in our current Schumpeterian depression, labor has no value.
So I’ll say happy birthday to the Grimness instead!
Outofstater, #125
Years ago, one of the big problems - even if you had insurance, they made you pay for everything up front, and then you got the insurance re-imbursement, not the doctor.
If you were having a baby, you were expected to front the payments throughout the pregnancy.
In the 90’s, when a friend of mine was critical with ovarian cancer and sick very long term - 6 years - her cancer docs wanted it all in cash, AND when Blue Cross sent the re-imbursements to them - they refused to refund her. Said they would “hold” the insurance money in her account “for the future” - when she was clearly dying. She came from an affluent family, and could pay for everything upfront - huge bills, too.
But for most people …
And then at some point, that changed.
I’m not sure how or why or when.
Can somebody please turn on the Today show right now and tell me whether this is a news program or Cougars in Heat?
Happy Birthday Grim Jim!
“do think a lot of people would stiff their doctors though.” Yes, they would and they do
“How about regulating trial lawyers instead of doctors?” Yes, end is near. Jamil and I agree. Aw, hey, F*ck, for that matter Frank>/i> and i agree
NOW you are getting to the real issues, folks. I can say it because I LIVE IT. As a patient as well as a physician.
“All I want from my gubmint is to go away and leave me alone.” Clot, I love you. That’s all I want too.
“…until your state appointed first year law associate takes your case.”
Hmmmm. Now this poses a real problem. I worked for the governement as a new, wet behind the ears doc. I worked for Indian Health Service (IHS). I worried just as I do today about getting sued. I later found out….guess what? You can’t sue IHS workers, IHS hospitals or the government that provides IHS care.
How’s that for stuff to think about.
sl
Scribe, We stopped taking BC/BS - because they denied EVERY claim and refused to pay anything.
I already work 30-40% of the time for free because of uninsured, “medicaid”– about as good as charity care — we get paid next to nothing — and don’t forget folks who “look insured” - present an ID card to the hospital registration clerk - that is no longer in effect.
/sarcasm starts here/ OH! that’s right. I’m a doctor. Responsible for your life and health. I’m the penultimate altruist and I should work for free…/sarcasm off/
sl
Im noticing a significant trend in the new census data for mercer county.
Asian invasion…
Census recently published a 2007 survey, not quite as accurate as the comprehensive census, but a pretty good indicator nonetheless.
Since the 2000 census in almost every town, rich and middle, the % of whites are being severely eroded, making way for drastic increases in the % of asian population.
West Windsor, for example, 73% white in 2000, 65% white in 2007. hispanic and african american % actually decreased slightly for that same period.
Summit, cranford, westfield and wayne did not show the same result - any changes seem minimal if any.
Happy Birthday Grim!
China alarmed by US money printing
The US Federal Reserve’s policy of printing money to buy Treasury debt threatens to set off a serious decline of the dollar and compel China to redesign its foreign reserve policy.
“If they keep printing money to buy bonds it will lead to inflation, and after a year or two the dollar will fall hard. Most of our foreign reserves are in US bonds and this is very difficult to change, so we will diversify incremental reserves into euros, yen, and other currencies,”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/6146957/China-alarmed-by-US-money-printing.html
…
“Gold is definitely an alternative, but when we buy, the price goes up. We have to do it carefully so as not to stimulate the markets,” he added.
The comments suggest that China has become the driving force in the gold market and can be counted on to
buy whenever there is a price dip, putting a floor under any correction.
Happy birthday grim!
Happy Birthday Grim!
You should have come out with us last night to celebrate your bday. Then you’d feel as good as I do right now.
hey, welcome to the Era of Czars..
O’s proposed regulatory czar, Cass Sunstein wants to ban hunting, animal agriculture and give animals the right to sue in court.
Now I really want to regulate access to lawyers. Maybe Buffy the dog should get priority over, say, sitting president when The Committee decides the priorities.
#49 Clot
Will the mortgage come with 5% Cash back on the Refi? Or will it be miles?
Happy Birthday Grim
138. I avoid docs from India like the plague. I look for home grown professionals. Sorry.
138 and 149.
nativists have teh stoopid.
http://www.ihs.gov/
Sorry Essex, wrong Indian… these were “Native Americans” in NM.
/sarcasm alert/
…off to work…Oh yeah, on a holiday, go figure… and no overtime/double time, etc. Oh that’s right, we have to work holidays and on relative’s birthdays and all that.
Oh. That’s right… we are the enemy, for expecting to be paid for our work….
/sarcasm OFF/
sl
Essex,
I think she was talking about Indians, as in the old-time name for Native Americans. Sounds like they named the agency years ago when “Indian” was still being used to describe Native Americans.
sl,
If you were in Colonia for the first 30 years, you’re not far past 30 now!
Must have been recently ….
Sync 150
faster than me….
sl
Let’s have a birthday party for Grim next weekend.
Somewhere down the shore, but with easy access via public transportation.
Last call for beach weather!
no. I’m actually pretty old. Practicing in NJ for over 15 yrs.
sl
#135 Scribe - That’s horrible. Holding it in an account for the future?? Sounds like theft and insurance fraud to me - they had already been paid! BC/BS should have reimbursed your friend directly. What a lousy situation!
Still looking after 15 years? Time to call it a night.
139.stilllooking
“Scribe, We stopped taking BC/BS - because they denied EVERY claim and refused to pay anything.”
this is my insurance company and they seem to accidentally on purpose screw up every bit of paperwork, denying proper payment to my doctors. I mean, every time. No way this isn’t part of company policy to see how many people will just write out a check and pay the bill. On average, it takes 6-12 months for me to get these issues resolved and my doctor paid in full.
I’ve been noticing more problems with getting things paid through my plan at Oxford. They somehow merged with someone else and things have gotten worse.
But I’m in a group plan through a trade organization, and the only other option is HIP - more expensive and said to be even worse.
This one goes out to all the medical professions on the board:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN7hJDS26rI
About O’care:
He had a chance but blew with the Banks. Political strategy calls for him to have beaten the crap out of the banking oligarchy -Nationalize/Fire/& Jail people.
What we got was appeasement. It’s the same as the guy going to prison on his first day -he’ll get challenge -has to fight or be someone’s wife.
O failed the test - The public sees him like someone prison’s wife. He’s owned & paid for by the FIRE industrial complex.
So now no one trust his O’care. Why should they?, no matter how bad things are.
My prediction - If anything passes -it will be bankrupt in 5 yrs. If anyone is old enough here remember the Joint Insurance Underwriters Auto Insurance in NJ in the 80’s that ended broke. Auto Insurance companies got the best drivers & pass the bad/new ones to the Fund but still got paid a processing fee & made out like bandit. In the mean time 20% of drivers were uninsured because could not afford it.
Answer is Medicare for everyone -but O sold out. Everyone gets it or nobody gets it, because within 5 yrs the young (Gen X/Y) will refuse to pay for the geezer-boomers, while they suffer the combined effects of economic depression, massive debts & decrease standards of living. Every society the old sacrifice for the future the younger future generation, at present it seems we are going to be one that sucks the life out of the young to keep the old going.
“at present it seems we are going to be one that sucks the life out of the young to keep the old going”
Don’t even bother closing the barn door….too late
Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus is urging three Republican colleagues to sign off on the $900 billion health-care reform package they have helped to negotiate over the past two months, in order to add a bipartisan proposal to the mix before President Obama’s speech to Congress on Wednesday.
The Baucus plan, circulating among the Finance Committee’s “Gang of Six” this weekend, sets forth provisions that have already gained the bipartisan group’s unofficial support and adds nothing that the group has not already deliberated, senior Senate aides said. But Democrats are wary that two of the three GOP negotiators — Sens. Charles E. Grassley (Iowa) and Mike Enzi (Wyo.) — could walk away, under pressure from their Republican colleagues to allow Democrats to fight for a bill on their own.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/07/AR2009090700786.html?wprss=rss_business
Hey ChiFi
Start watching HBO Sundays at 9. They’re using one of DM’s songs for the season finale commercials.
Thanks for the information
Mac (162)-
“What we got was appeasement.”
?????
The fringe uses “appeasement” alot apparently with little knowledge of what it means or the history leading up to WW2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMMklhX74_w
To Mac:
I know my history & I meant it. It means Lloyd at GS gets to keep 85 Broad Street -play High Frequency/Dark Pool/Market manipulation games & we get to pay for it in future inflation & decrease standard of living.. Did you see any one go to jail yet?…
Do you think Teddy Roosevelt or his nephew Franklin -would have handle it a little different. Maybe - the country & constitution before bastard bankers raping the world.
When a group of corporate insiders essentially have managed to bring about the questioning of the integrity of the American system…Something that even during the darkest days of the cold war it did not occur. And no repercussion from Govt… Does not this happen in 3rd world banana republics?, let’s say Guatemala & the United Fruit Company in 50’s….
By the way do you actually think any one is going to trust us, when our financial dog poo has infected the world & no sign of any law enforcement or correction of errors seems to take place. In fact it seems the cops are taking pay off money.
Yep is appeasement… only to be superseded by crook if found to have taken some payoff….
lost: they hacked it up pretty good..thanks for the heads up
165.lostinny says:
September 7, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Hey ChiFi
Start watching HBO Sundays at 9. They’re using one of DM’s songs for the season finale commercials.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK2iyGTaaXM
162.Macchievelli for 2012 says:
September 7, 2009 at 3:52 pm
About O’care:
Answer is Medicare for everyone -but O sold out. Everyone gets it or nobody gets it, because within 5 yrs the young (Gen X/Y) will refuse to pay for the geezer-boomers, while they suffer the combined effects of economic depression, massive debts & decrease standards of living. Every society the old sacrifice for the future the younger future generation, at present it seems we are going to be one that sucks the life out of the young to keep the old going.
Mac: You forget #1 how many boomers there are; #2 how much they will vote their interests without conscience.
As a Gen X, I resigned myself awhile ago to the thought that these bloodsucking locusts will suck my carcass dry, and what ever is left will be picked clean by their vacuous children.
It pretty simply: the boomers will wreck the country and then once they are gone, theor children will ensure that I am euthanized because they don’t want to pay for me.
chi (170)-
And I’m the dystopian?
Mikey, fully recovered:
MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 7, 2009
Fed Regulators Fear Banking Panic
“On August 24th a brave judge in Manhattan ruled against the central bank. Chief U.S. District Judge Loretta Preska ruled that the Federal Reserve must identify the companies in its emergency lending programs crafted by King Henry and Prince KaKa Kashkari. As you know, the Fed has blatantly refused to name names, even though it is our money and this is the United States of America . . . not The Kingdom of Paulson.
Bloomberg News filed suit on November 7th, and it took this long for justice to prevail, on an issue that politicians have been grandstanding about for months. Wake Up America! What’s next?
I’ll tell you what’s next . . . an appeal, because the government is concerned the details of what King Henry and Prince KaKa Kashkari have done would spark a panic.
Tell me why something as simply as one of our basic rights took 10 months and millions upon millions of dollars in legal fees to resolve? I only have one thing to close with . . .
Wake Up America . . . the Banksters are r@ping you while you watch Reality TV and stuff your faces with cookies and pizza.”
http://realestateandhousing2.blogspot.com/2009/09/fed-regulators-fear-banking-panic.html
171.Cyclonic Action Vacuum says:
September 7, 2009 at 10:08 pm
chi (170)-
And I’m the dystopian?
clot: Speaking of dystopia…I am working with a guy from Eastern Europe among others on this ridiculous Albania real estate project. Before he dealt with me he demanded that I read various passages from books. One is from PJ O’Rourke…the third chapter is on Albania….skip to the third page and there is a hyperlink to the chapter. I think they purposely drop 2 pages just to penalize the cheapies.
My favor quote to paraphrase, why did the population stop looting? They were done.
http://books.google.com/books?id=gea-ec5FW00C&dq=eat+the+rich+pj+o‘rourke&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=_L2lSrHkC5We8Qas353tDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Hey, Sheilababy…this one’s gonna leave a mark:
“…Corus Bank has been hard hit by the real estate downturn in Nevada and Florida.
Industry watchers expect the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation to seize the institution this month. Corus Bank, the operating subsidiary of Corus Bankshares Inc., has been one of the nation’s most aggressive lenders to condo developers and investors.
The FDIC had given Corus a June 18, 2009 deadline to raise more capital. However, in a previously released July statement, the bank said it was “critically undercapitalized” and “highly unlikely” to raise capital without the FDIC’s help in brokering a deal.
The newspaper reports former Corus Bankshares Inc. chairman Joseph Glickman, 94, has already sold most of his stock in the bank.
Glickman, a former Minnesota resident, sold 3.9 million common shares from Aug. 20 through Aug. 26 for an average price of 31 cents a share, according to a Securities and Exchange Commission filing.
The Joseph C. Glickman Foundation dumped 800,000 shares of common stock from June 22 to Aug. 28.
That leaves Glickman and his Foundation with 544,762 shares, or 1 percent of the company. As of March 9, 2009, they had owned 9.7 percent of Corus, according to the SEC. The Glickman family until recently had owned nearly 45 percent of the bank.
In April, Joseph Glickman resigned from the bank as chairman and director, and his son Robert resigned as CEO and director.
Robert Glickman
Robert and his brother, Edward, also have been reducing their Corus stakes. Edward’s stake has dropped to 7.1 percent Wednesday from 11.7 percent in March, and Robert’s to 4.3 percent from 23 percent, according to their filings with the SEC.
Glickman came to Chicago in 1966,bought out a $20 million-asset lender and grew the institution to a $7.07 billion-asset Corus Bank, according to the Tribune.”
http://tinyurl.com/nemx66
Clot did you pose for this?
http://s3.amazonaws.com/wootsaleimages/DystopiaevwDetail.png
clot: I apologize, there is at least one quote per paragraph.
On the ponzi schemes that took down the economy in the 1990’s.
“The Albanian population’s reaction was philosophical - assuming your philosophy is nihilism.”
Chi, my 90-year-old MIL asked me tonight to explain the whole health care issue to her, so that she can communicate this out. You see, she doesn’t understand the hullaballoo. Her insurance only costs her two hundred bucks for the payment on the private plan Grandpa had as a retiree of a utility, plus her hundred for the Medicare. Of course, she did have to pony-up two hundred for a dental issue. She has no dental coverage. “Nobody thinks old people like me have any teeth left.”
She’s the old lady you see behind the folding table at the voting place. Spends a lot of time at the Burger King for her Kaffee Klatches.
Have faith in the old ones. She concentrated while I explained the issues of transition, coverage and cost for current employees, ex-employees and citizens.
She will have follow-up questions.
Pat: she isn’t the problem…it’s the 60 year olds that are her kids….
clot: more….they cannot set up a child abuse hotline, because it will be swamped with how-to? calls…
gal (175)-
Kinda wish I did.
chi (176)-
Why would you be trying to do a deal of any kind in this place?
Sounds like the ninth circle of hell.
BTW, one of my son’s best pals is a kid on his soccer team whose parents fled Tirana in ‘97. They say they can’t ever go back.
I don’t want to know why.
On second thought, it seems as though Albanians are just Irish who can tan instead of burn in the sun.
Just kidding…
Provide your own funny caption:
http://tinyurl.com/krhl5d
183.
Here goes.
“does the food dispenser come with black granite countertops?
jamil.hussein says:
September 7, 2009 at 8:54 am
Barbara: Most voters (~70%) are happy with their current health plans. Of the uninsured, large portion are illegal parasites or their legal anchor babies.
i thought we only had to deal with this guy during the months leading up to an election? love how he rattles off info as if it is fact.
sounds like a couple republican radio windbags i’m vaguely familiar with …
happy bday, bednar
Guv….
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=awwFC9D8a4YY
My 2 year old son has a new stategy. He says the house needs repairs and we need to buy supplies. I assumed he was going ask that we go to the hardware store, Home Depot or Lowe’s or something….then he said we needed to go to Jackrabbit Toy store….he had me going before he laid down the law….
The most sober thing I’ve ever expected to see written by a NJ Democrat:
http://blog.nj.com/njv_tom_byrne/2009/09/can_nj_stem_job_losses.html#comments