“The rich aren’t as rich as they used to be”

From Bloomberg:

Luxury Homeowners in U.S. Use ‘Short Sales’ as Defaults Rise

Homeowners with mortgages of more than $1 million are defaulting at almost twice the U.S. rate and some are turning to so-called short sales to unload properties as stock-market losses and pay cuts squeeze wealthy borrowers.

“The rich aren’t as rich as they used to be,” said Alex Rodriguez, a Miami real estate agent with JM Group USA Inc., whose listings include a $2.9 million property marketed as a short sale because the price is less than the mortgage, leaving the bank with a loss. “People have reached the point where they can’t afford the carrying expenses of a $2 million home.”

Payments on about 12 percent of mortgages exceeding $1 million were 90 days or more overdue in September, compared with 6.3 percent on loans less than $250,000 and 7.4 percent on all U.S. mortgages, according to data from First American CoreLogic Inc., a Santa Ana, California-based research firm. The rate for mortgages above $1 million was 4.7 percent a year earlier.

The Fed purchases haven’t affected the high end of the market because they exclude so-called jumbo loans. Mortgages above the $729,750 limit set by Congress for the nation’s highest-priced markets cost almost 1 percentage point more than conforming loans, according to Keith Gumbinger, vice president at HSH Associates, a mortgage-data company in Pompton Plains, New Jersey. That’s quadruple the historic spread.

“There is no refinance market for you if you are underwater and outside the Fannie and Freddie framework,” Gumbinger said. “High-end neighborhoods are all suffering from the same problems of diminished income at a time when there is little equity to work with.”

“The reason the low end stopped falling is because the government stepped in with affordable loans,” said Scott Simon, managing director at Pacific Investment Management Co., a Newport Beach-based investment firm that runs the world’s largest bond fund. “There is no political will to bail out a million-dollar house.”

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Bubble, National Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

271 Responses to “The rich aren’t as rich as they used to be”

  1. grim says:

    Title probably should have read, “The rich aren’t as rich as they thought they were.”

  2. grim says:

    From the Record:

    Hovnanian reports 13th straight losing quarter

    Hovnanian Enterprises Inc., the state’s largest homebuilder, reported its 13th consecutive quarterly loss Wednesday, signaling that the housing industry’s problems are far from over.

    Red Bank-based Hovnanian reported losses of $250.8 million, or $3.21 a share, on revenues of $437.4 million for its fiscal fourth quarter, which ended Oct. 31. That’s well below the loss of $450.5 million, or $5.79, a share on revenues of $721.4 million in the same quarter a year ago. But the loss was significantly larger than the average $1.72 a share predicted by analysts.

    Hovnanian, which is one of the nation’s largest homebuilders, is carrying more debt than most other large builders, and has taken steps, such as exchange offers and repurchases, to make that debt more manageable. The company has also cut its workforce dramatically and scaled back construction since the housing bubble began to deflate in 2006.

    Hovnanian delivered 1,444 homes during the quarter, down 37 percent from the same quarter a year earlier. But the contract cancellation rate has fallen from 42 percent to 24 percent in that period, meaning that fewer buyers are backing out of deals.

    Ara Hovnanian, the company’s president and CEO, said he sees signs “that the housing market is at or approaching a bottom.”

  3. grim says:

    Happy Holidays from Citi

    From the AP:

    Citi to suspend foreclosures for 30 days

    Citigroup Inc. will suspend foreclosures and evictions for 30 days in a temporary break for about 4,000 borrowers during the holiday season.

    The New York-based bank said Thursday the suspension will run from Friday through Jan. 17. It applies only to borrowers whose loans are owned by Citi. Borrowers who make payments to Citi but whose loans are owned by other investors are out of luck.

    “We want our borrowers to have a much less stressful time, to spend their time with their families during the holidays as opposed to worrying about their homes,” Sanjiv Das, head of the company’s mortgage division, said in an interview.

    The suspension means Citi will halt foreclosure sales and stop evicting homeowners from properties it has already seized. The company projects it will help 2,000 homeowners with scheduled foreclosure sales and another 2,000 that were due to receive foreclosure notices.

  4. grim says:

    From HousingWire:

    Housing Won’t Collapse in 2010, says Radar Logic

    The US housing market could be in for some serious trouble in 2010, but predictions of a second collapse are “exaggerated,” according to a report from Radar Logic, a real estate data and analytics company.

    Housing values could significantly recover in the spring of 2010 as low prices attract a blend of owner-occupiers and investors. Heated bidding pushes up prices at foreclosure auctions, and the supply of new and existing homes is declining, according to the report.

    The threat to the budding growth is the shadow inventory of foreclosures. According to the report, delinquencies have reached their highest peak in decades and the most bearish observers believe the inventory will flood the market once the government programs end, boosting supply and decreasing home prices.

    If the government and the banks can effectively solve the puzzle of mitigating foreclosures, Radar Logic says that home values could even go up in 2010. Of course, before calling an end to the recession, everyone will keep an eye on unemployment. Many believe the rates will peak in the next two or three quarters and decline. Once that happens, according to the report, housing demand with strengthen even more.

    “While we are not out of the woods yet, our view is that housing is showing signs of stability, markets are showing signs of rational behavior and everyone is starting to understand the fundamental problems that brought us here,” according to the report. “As such, we think the bears are overdoing it.”

  5. grim says:

    From the NY Mag Daily Intel Column:

    Times Layoffs: Salkin, Konigsberg, Rimer, and More

    It’s a “pretty grim atmosphere” over at the Times today, when layoffs are coming down from on high as the paper tries to reach the 100-person editorial cut it announced earlier this fall. While 74 staff members took the buyout, that left 26 to go. Layoffs have been ongoing all day, sources tell us, with the unlucky few people called upstairs out of the newsroom — where now people are “standing around in clumps and obviously talking about everything.”

  6. Essex says:

    Howard Dean on Morning Joe (my favorite and only TV news show that I watch) was very good this morning…..t

  7. Nomad says:

    If the government and the banks can effectively solve the puzzle of mitigating foreclosures, Radar Logic says that home values could even go up in 2010.

    While it’s only two letters, “If” can be a pretty big word. The gov’t has only worked out what, 31,000 mtgs with their help program. Gonna take a bit more than that to fix things. ’10 & ’11 a big years for resets so I don’t get the logic of things getting better. An in ’12, when rates really go up, it’s not like unemployment will have dropped so if someone can tell me who is going to buy these homes I’d love to hear it.

    Probably a bit easier to get a parking space at the Short Hils mall these days. With the home equity ATM machine busted, cloths and cars probably ain’t at the top of the shopping list or maybe they are, got to keep up the image.

  8. Essex says:

    Tea Party movement is now more popular than BOTH parties in a recent WSJ poll….both parties are officially dead.

  9. Shore Guy says:

    ““The rich aren’t as rich as they thought they were.”

    Bingo!

  10. Shore Guy says:

    ““The rich aren’t as rich as they thought they were.”

    How many times have any of us seen people look at unrealized gains and conclude that they “are rich.”?

    Also, freshly-minted graduates of profesional schools who see their starting salary, far above a stuudent’s income, and try to live the lifestyle of those who are earning twice (or more) than they are.

    We have watched newbies (whose salaries we know because we have the payroll data) start the job and buy a biggerand more expensive house than we have. It is reckless.

  11. gary says:

    Well, well… received another job offer yesterday. It’s for a longer term contract, 20% increase in pay with a right to hire full time. Greenshoots for me?

  12. Schumpeter says:

    gary (11)-

    Congrats. I hope you also find a great way to completely screw your current slavedriver if/when you transition to your new job.

  13. safeashouses says:

    #10 Shore Guy

    People don’t realize high income does not equal wealth. I remember posting a link on this site showing over 25% of people earning over 100k a year would be in financial distress if they went 2 weeks without a paycheck. Yet I bet most of those people consider themselves middle class at least. They are simply poor with high incomes and better credit.

  14. Schumpeter says:

    Anybody see the news about this adoption Ponzi scheme on LI?

    Fcuking sick.

  15. gary says:

    “While we are not out of the woods yet, our view is that housing is showing signs of stability, markets are showing signs of rational behavior and everyone is starting to understand the fundamental problems that brought us here,” according to the report. “As such, we think the bears are overdoing it.”.

    It’s contained to subprime, Greenspan told me.

  16. gary says:

    Schumpeter [12],

    I’m working on it! All I need is some duct tape and a roll of shrink wrap and I’m good to go!

  17. Nomad says:

    Cash flow and net worth are two very different things. Better to have your water source in the form of a lake than a river.

  18. BC Bob says:

    “We want our borrowers to have a much less stressful time, to spend their time with their families during the holidays as opposed to worrying about their homes,” Sanjiv Das, head of the company’s mortgage division, said in an interview.

    If you’re so concerned about the welfare of your borrowers why not suspend foreclosures for 1-2 years?

  19. Schumpeter says:

    BC (18)-

    Foreclosure moratoria only serve the purpose of packing the metaphorical 10-megaton plutonium bomb full of nails, bullets, barbed wire scraps and radioactive waste.

    The eventual and inevitable detonation will just be that much worse.

  20. gary says:

    Initial jobless claims up 7,000 to 480,000. Greenshoots to all, and to all, a good night! The dollar also flying; shiny and Euro getting pounded!

  21. Schumpeter says:

    Oblivion beckons.

  22. Schumpeter says:

    In my e-mail this AM: Sovereign Bank will no longer underwrite FHA loans.

  23. 3b says:

    #7 nomad: That is what I was thinking. They sure expect alot of problems to be solved in 2010, that would see house prices rising. Do these people ever stop and think beefore they write these articles?

  24. Schumpeter says:

    Has anybody mentioned the new Truth-in-Lending guidelines?

    Our processors were on a mandatory conference call yesterday to be briefed on the new rules. Lots of ghost-like faces afterwards.

    In a nutshell, all prepaids (survey, title fees, homeowners’ insurance, etc) must be quoted accurately and to the penny. Any change in those numbers during the transaction requires issuance of an entirely new TIL statement, and any new TIL issuance triggers a mandatory, minimum seven-day wait if a closing has been scheduled.

    If you’re a borrower, this means two things:

    1. The new TIL guidelines- along with the new appraisal guidelines- practically fuses you to your first choice of lender. Shopping lenders will now be virtually impossible, as the logistics of switching will be too complex and costly.

    2. In order for the originator to be able to generate precise TIL statements earlier in the process, buyers will have to begin forking out for prepaids virtually the moment contracts become binding…especially in situations where a fast closing is needed.

  25. 3b says:

    #15 gary: Is FHA supplying mtgs with little down rational behavior?

    And who is this everybody he speaks of that understands what brought us here?

  26. 3b says:

    #22 schumpt: Why?

  27. Schumpeter says:

    I don’t know about you guys, but I’m beginning to get comfortable with the idea that we live in a crumbling nation, dominated by con men who are in the thrall of insolvent and corrupt financial institutions.

  28. Schumpeter says:

    3b (26)-

    How dare you ask “why” of a bank?

    In truth, no reason supplied. That’s the MO of banks since this thing started.

  29. frank says:

    Times Layoffs: Salkin, Konigsberg, Rimer, and More

    They should layoff everyone at this liberal s&it-hole and shut it down.

  30. Schumpeter says:

    BC (30)-

    $1 beer only works when you do it in conjunction with “Disco Demolition” nights:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpQfCcsqQ0E

  31. Schumpeter says:

    Good chance dog racing lasts longer than the NBA.

  32. Stu says:

    Frank,

    Times layoffs = bad news for your hot dog cart outside Abercrombie & Fitch.

  33. Schumpeter says:

    C manages to shove their putrid secondary down market’s throat @ $3.15.

  34. BC Bob says:

    Schump [31],

    Hard to believe, that was 30 years ago.

  35. Schumpeter says:

    BC (35)-

    A classic so fresh, you’d swear it happened yesterday.

  36. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [11] gary

    Drinks on Gary at next GTG!!!

  37. grim says:

    Jobless claims at 480k. Unexpectedly higher.

  38. chicagofinance says:

    Strumpet: you should hear Dick Bove on C

  39. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Green shoots for Gary, hopefully mine don’t wither.

    I get my review in less than an hour, and I am not expecting happy talk since billing is down and I have clashed on occasion with a jr. partner here.

    Only question now is how bad will it be. I am not expecting to be escorted from the building, and hopefully won’t be told to “take some time to focus on your job search” but there won’t be any raise. No f’ing way.

  40. Schumpeter says:

    chi (39)-

    Dick Bove is a tool.

    I can only imagine his take…this guy would try to spin syphilis positive.

  41. Shore Guy says:

    “They sure expect alot of problems to be solved in 2010,”

    I suspect that many people, including drones in the financia press, are of the mindset that, “We are in the United States and long term things have always gone well for us. Sure we have had recessions but they tend to last X months then we always see the same essential recovery.”

    What folks do not seem to give heed to is the possibility that the fundamentlas of the global economy have changed in ways that alter our prospects of seeing a traditional exit from this recession.

  42. yikes says:

    how much gasoline are people storing in their garage?

    a few weeks ago someone mentioned feral dogs and armed bandits guarding the gas stations in a doomsday scenario…

    just wondering if people are two or three of those 5-gallon jugs and storing them.

    (and of course using fuel stabilizers)

  43. yikes says:

    has anyone actually asked their friends and family for weapons/ammo this xmas?

  44. Shore Guy says:

    Nom,

    Get back to the effing coal mine and generate some partner bonuses, will ya. Jeeze, whiny associates. They just don’t understand partners’ need to get to Barbados in January and Paris in April.

  45. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [41] clot

    Bove is a contraindicator.

    [45] shore

    Well, I beg them for work, so they can’t say I am not doing my share of the lifting. In fact, I think my billing is over the group average, but I have been feuding in a low-level way with a partner here, and while it may blow over on its own, it may not.

  46. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [43] yikes

    I try to keep about 7 gallons on hand but must periodically dump it in the gas tank and get more because of storage. I do cycle it so I haven’t been using stabilizers.

    Kettle has posted way back on stabilizers, and I seem to recall he wasn’t enamored with Sta-bil.

    As for feral dogs, how would you get them to guard anything?

    I only want enough on hand to deal with price spikes (we don’t use a lot), or, if TSHTF, enough to help get to the Nompound (whether mine or the one in Maine. That is also why a future Nompound will have hand tools and perhaps a horse barn, like the Maine location does).

    Otherwise, storing gas for a TEOTWAWKI event is more cost and hassle than it is worth.

    One idea I did have, and that apparently went into practice in some places, was the idea of a co-op, using an old gas station. There is virtually no labor cost and members get cheap gas. You could even start a co-op and run it through an existing station, but there wouldn’t be enough savings to make it worthwhile, esp. in NJ with its no self pump rule (the stand-alone co-op avoids that since the member is also an owner-employee).

  47. BeachBum says:

    Totally off the subject:

    Anyone have background on this house in Belmar:
    MLS 20945533
    on 8th avenue
    Last time we exchanged on Belmar, Shore, NJC & Co all said they didn’t think 8th ave was a problem, but any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

  48. prtraders2000 says:

    47

    When I lived in Dorado, PR the gas station by the plaza was a co-op. They sold to both members and nonmembers, but you pumped your own gas there.

  49. John says:

    Well everyone on this site is a lot richer this year, almost 99% of commodity, stock and bond tips on this site are way up. Plus it seems this site if full of cheapskates. Deadly combo.

    Plus this article is stupid as it is written be a realtor. The herd mentatlity is rampid amoung yuppies, they now think only a fool buys a trade up house and it is no longer trendy. I am not buying a house or car this year does that make me pooor? actually makes me richers!

  50. Mocha says:

    Former Fed Chairman Greenspan, in prepared testimony, warns U.S. faces threat of unprecedented fiscal crisis over the horizon – Reuters

  51. Painhrtz says:

    Always keep about twenty gallons on hand and one car filled that gets us to the Adirondacks and provides loiter time.

    must turn it over though even with stabilizers.

    Lost – heard some good news, Rangers lose tonight Sather is toast from a credible source.

  52. NJGator says:

    We got our corporate holiday gift this week. $15 debit card for the corporate cafeteria. And a printed card informing us that a donation had been made to a food bank organization. Our VP’s assistant was upset that she had to hand it out.

  53. freedy says:

    i received my gift for xmas. i sold my
    condo.

  54. NJGator says:

    Nom 40 – Bon Courage! Hope it all turns out ok! But what is this thing you call a “raise”? We’re going on year 2 without them here!

  55. John says:

    That is what the Japanese call the “circle of life”. You give to a food bank that you will soon to be qualified to use!!!!

    Get McKinsey over there now. Bull doze cafeteria and sub-let space. You need to maximize efficency over there.

    NJGator says:
    December 17, 2009 at 10:20 am
    We got our corporate holiday gift this week. $15 debit card for the corporate cafeteria. And a printed card informing us that a donation had been made to a food bank organization. Our VP’s assistant was upset that she had to hand it out.

  56. NJCoast says:

    BeachBum-

    200 8th ave. house-
    1590 sq.ft.

    Mortgage history
    3/3/05-$350,000
    5/19/05-$474,750
    6/21/05-$372,000

    last sale-1984-$70,000
    Block- 71
    lot-19
    You can look up particulars on the Monmouth county public records.

  57. ruggles says:

    53 – does the food bank service your cafeteria?

  58. John says:

    Raises are bad!!!! Bread and water for the uneducated. Take your 3% and shove it. I want options, restricted stock, def comp, golden parachutes like the big boys.

  59. BC Bob says:

    “I want options, restricted stock, def comp, golden parachutes like the big boys.”

    J[59],

    I would imagine those at Citi, BAC, AIG, etc.., would rather have received Gator’s $15 debit card than their RSU’s.

  60. BC Bob says:

    “President Barack Obama’s extension last month of a tax credit for first-time homebuyers failed to stir optimism among homebuilders or stock investors about the industry’s prospects.”

    “The extension has not materially helped traffic or sales despite the program’s expansion,” Carl Reichardt, a Wells Fargo analyst, wrote yesterday in a report.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=acPj_UrWVI6U&source=patrick.net

  61. John says:

    BC, actually since Citi staff is being paid mainly in restricted stock this year and the strike price is getting near, it is in the employees best interest to see Citi stock fall more short term. Maybe get in at $2.50 a share. A bounce to $5 would give them a 100% increase in two years when it vests. Meanwhile dopes who bought at $50 are still in deep doo doo at $5.

  62. chicagofinance says:

    strumpet does a turn as Santa.

    Dearest Santa,
    We don’t have a chimney in our house, how do you get into our home?
    Love, Marky

    Mark, first, stop calling yourself “Marky”, that’s why you’re getting your ass whipped at school. Second, you don’t live in a house, you live in a low-rent apartment complex. Third, I get
    inside your pad just like the boogeyman does, through your bedroom window.
    Sweet Dreams, Santa

  63. chicagofinance says:

    for the record….Bove said fcuk Citi, they suck moose c0ck….seriously

    Schumpeter says:
    December 17, 2009 at 9:27 am
    chi (39)- Dick Bove is a tool. I can only imagine his take…this guy would try to spin syphilis positive.

  64. Shore Guy says:

    “Rangers lose tonight”

    I thought that, “The Rangers had a homecoming in Harlem late last night.”

  65. freedy says:

    bove changes by the day

  66. BC Bob says:

    J[62],

    I was referring to RSU’s granted over the past couple of years.

  67. BC Bob says:

    Shore [65],

    The Magic Rat put one into the goal.

  68. Shore Guy says:

    BC,

    BTW, what are “wolfman fairies dressed in drag,” anyway? It sounds like attendees at an alternative dance in a Harry Potter book.

  69. Stu says:

    The Devils keep on winning and with very little talent and with a payroll that is nearly 20% less than that of the Rangers.

    Pittsburgh’s payroll (Stanley Cup Champs) is lower than both the Devils and Rangers, but it helps that two of the three best players in the NHL are only playing in their 3rd and 4th year professionally.

  70. Al Gore says:

    43.

    Regarding gasoline storage. I put 100 gallons in my boat with fuel stabilizer. Wife wont let me store the 5 gallon cans near the house.

    Of course if you have some property you could opt for the 250 gallon, polyethylene subgrade storage. Dont worry about the EPA.

    Bob,

    Whats your outlook on shiny through this dollar rally? Im looking to double my position as the shorts cover.

  71. Shore Guy says:

    Yup, BC, the Rat has to watch those tunnels uptown.

  72. BC Bob says:

    Shore [69],

    Don’t know. I’m lost in the flood.

  73. HEHEHE says:

    Ex-Wife Sues Fund-Manager Cohen

    Billionaire hedge-fund manager Steven Cohen’s ex-wife sued him and his firm SAC Capital Advisors on Wednesday, claiming that he engaged in insider trading during the 1980s and hid assets during their divorce proceedings.

    The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, accused Mr. Cohen and his Stamford, Conn.-based firm of a long-running racketeering scheme.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703581204574600643769832888.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us_business

  74. Schumpeter says:

    chi (64)-

    That’s great. Do you think Dimon, Blankfein- or both- paid him to jump ugly on C?

    The leeches must be close to needing another corpse to feed on. Gotta think they’re eyeballing C.

  75. Schumpeter says:

    Do you think hockey skills translate to Rollerball?

    If not, a lot of these guys are gonna be broke in a year or two.

  76. Al Gore says:

    The U.S. Army War College warned in 2008 November

    The military must be prepared, the document warned, for a “violent, strategic dislocation inside the United States,” which could be provoked by “unforeseen economic collapse,” “purposeful domestic resistance,” “pervasive public health emergencies” or “loss of functioning political and legal order.” The “widespread civil violence,” the document said, “would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order and human security.” “An American government and defense establishment lulled into complacency by a long-secure domestic order would be forced to rapidly divest some or most external security commitments in order to address rapidly expanding human insecurity at home,” it went on. “Under the most extreme circumstances, this might include use of military force against hostile groups inside the United States. Further, DoD [the Department of Defense] would be, by necessity, an essential enabling hub for the continuity of political authority in a multi-state or nationwide civil conflict or disturbance,” the document read.

  77. Al Gore says:

    Gary,

    Congrats on your job offer. Now you have the opportunity to prepare effectively.

  78. NJGator says:

    Ruggles 58 – No, but we are hoping to get preference when we need to use it after we are all laid off.

  79. d2b says:

    Hockey is strong for the good players and teams. It could stand to lose a few teams but so can most sports. Hockey has the ability to adjust their labor costs so in that sense they can aviod an implosion.

    Rangers, like the Flyers, have too much $$$ and the pressure to always win. Because of this they can not burn it down and start over. The Devils have the best goalie in the game. He may be the best goalie ever.

  80. Shore Guy says:

    “The U.S. Army War College warned in 2008 November”

    AG,

    How about a link? I have read many things that come out of there and most are just papers written by folks looking for a rise in grade and looking to write something that gets attention and shows solid scholarship.

    Now, something coming out of the Pentagon or a DoD advisory committee….

  81. jcer says:

    Stu, I disagree with the little talent thing about the Devils, they have Broduer, Parise, Zajac, Elias, Langenbrunner, Rolston, Niedermeyer, and Bergfors. Also kids like Zarkhov who show a lot of promise, and defenseman like Martin and Green. What they lack is a shutdown defender, some one really physical and centers as really they are down to 2, although before his injury I was pretty impressed with how Zubrus was playing. Pittsburgh is not that good, Crosby is overrated, and they will be eliminated and playing golf by the second round this year, their defense is not very good. Oh yeah had detroit not choked the pens wouldn’t have won last year.

    From where I sit the devs have the greatest goaltender of all time who is also one of the best canadian players, the best czech player in the world(Elias), the best US player(Parise), and a cast of role players who do their jobs well. I mean look how well Rupp is doing on the pens, devils talent tends to go unnoticed, the devils players are better than most people think.

  82. Painhrtz says:

    D and Stu

    Want to know the definition of torture, my one distraction is a lifelong passion for hockey. Unfortunately, I was born into a family of Ranger fans. So I’m always miserable

    D2B – what is the one constant between the Flyers and Rangers both are run by huge Cable monopolies flush with cash. I envy the Devils they do more with other teams cast aways than my beloved blueshirts can do with cash.

  83. Stu says:

    I agree that Brodeur is very good, if not the best, but Clemenson did not disprove the ‘system’ theory by winning almost every single game last year when Brodeur was out for surgery. Watching Lemaire’s system is like appreciating art. You almost have to be a player to understand it. It is fantastic though and the Devils have the right players willing to sacrifice individual stats for team wins and bonus and incentives for long playoff runs. If the Devils miss the playoffs, the team loses money. Lou Lamoriello is the Bellicheck of the NHL.

    The Rangers simply need to keep stupid fans in the seats to turn a profit. The playoffs are just gravy for them. Devils are lucky to have 12,000 at their average game.

    Sports are businesses. Fanatics forget that so frequently.

  84. Shore Guy says:

    AG,
    Thanks. I will give it a look when I am back in the office.

  85. homeboken says:

    Bernanke confirmed, keep those printing presses on and the helicopters fueled up.

  86. jcer says:

    With the salary cap the difference in payrolls is not huge, the big difference is the organization. Teams like Detroit, NJ, Pittsburgh, etc win because the organization is good and understands hockey and how to win. They have great hockey minds and draft well, coach well, and assemble teams with players who have what it takes to win. People like Ovechkin or Crosby couldn’t play on the devils as they would be expected to play for the win not their own personal stats. Parise and Zajac could have more points and goals but they don’t because of the defense they are playing, hence the high plus/minus both of them have.

  87. Stu says:

    jcer,

    Why is it that nearly every top Devil player that leaves for richer pastures sees a dropoff in their offensive statistics? Shanahan is about the only player I know over the years who actually improved with a trade. I think the Devils are less about talent and more about ‘the system’. Admittedly, Parise has mad skills, but Crosby/Malkin/Evechkin/even Semin he is not. I went to the Hurricane game last Wednesday. Devils did not let up a single odd man rush for 60 minutes. Same with the Philly game on Saturday night. This is just plain unbelievable.

  88. chicagofinance says:

    Bud Fox: Why do you need to wreck this company?

    Gordon Gekko: Because it’s WRECKABLE, all right? I took another look at it and I changed my mind!

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=asfbtAgFRn1g

  89. Shore Guy says:

    BC,

    That is a tough spot in which to be. It sounds like you need Protection, or an Angle while you are Out in the Street or Out of Work at Night. Me? I had a great Pink Cadillac at My Fathers House, but I took a Downbound Train to a Meeting Across the River and This Little Girl stole it and drove ot down Thunder Road. Now it is just another Stolen Car. Well, I have a Reason to Believe that so the State Trooper said that he would shoot her Point blank if they ever Rendezvous aand he determines that She’s the One. But who knows. For now, I don’t feel the Magic of driving a new vehicle so I am Savin’ Up to go out looking at Used Cars. There is a place behind the Tunnel of Love that is Open All night. You know, the one by Mary’s Place? If they don’t have what I want, I my find something ib either Nebraska, in Atlantic City, or on the Streets of Philadelphia.

  90. NJGator says:

    Hey Chifi – At the office holiday party last night, I found out that our Business Manager, who can’t even reconcile our books or generate our artist statements, just started an MBA program at Cornell. What the heck happened to admissions standards there?

  91. Painhrtz says:

    Stu and that is why I have been voicing my displeasure with my rear. I won’t be back at the garden until Sathre is gone. Go to games at the rock when I want to see the blueshirts.

    Brodeur is as great goalie, but he is also the perfect goalie for that system. Hybrid, contolled movements positionally sound. Put him on most other winning organizations he wins 350 games over the course of his career, devils system 500 + and counting.The devils system has made a great golie, the all time great goalie.

  92. jcer says:

    Stu again Clemmer is a far better goalie than people give him credit for, he played well, and really has weakness in moving across the net, the devils defense tried very hard not to expose his weakness and largely succeeded, straight on he is hard to score against, he has a relatively quick hand and good reflexes. Any of that bunk about Brodeur can be debunked by watching some of the games in last years carolina series, Brodeur and Ward both turned aside something like 50 shots. Ward imo, is still kind of underrated his performance can be spotty but the team in front of him is quite bad.

    Again, the identifying the talent in other teams cast aways is key to winning with the cap, no you won’t get the highest caliber talent but some of these players if used properly can be game changers…cough… Rupp. Guys like Lemeux and Lamoriello know hockey and who they can use for what task. What I appreciate most about Lemaire, is his ability to get performance out of players. Sutter was not a bad coach, I actually think Lou hired well, but the biggest thing is that the players didn’t like him and he was wasting a lot of talent.

  93. HEHEHE says:

    Poor Ara Hovnanian, he’s tried everything and his co is still swirling down the toilet

  94. Stu says:

    Pain, Agreed.

    Now how the heck do the Knicks continue to sell seats?

  95. BeachBum says:

    #57 NJC – thanks.

    Given how the listing showed up, I’m wondering if it’s not a short sale or other – no pictures, no details in the listing, etc. usually that’s sign.
    But I keep hearing “8th Avenue, it’s a sh! street. All the bennies, they drive off the bridge and come screaming down the road” etc.

  96. lisoosh says:

    grim says:
    December 17, 2009 at 9:14 am

    “Jobless claims at 480k. Unexpectedly higher.”

    There’s that “unexpected” word again.

  97. chicagofinance says:

    NJGator says:
    December 17, 2009 at 11:46 am
    Hey Chifi – At the office holiday party last night, I found out that our Business Manager, who can’t even reconcile our books or generate our artist statements, just started an MBA program at Cornell. What the heck happened to admissions standards there?

    Gates: what kind of MBA? Executive MBA? More details….I will explain though…

  98. jcer says:

    Gator, I’m continually astounded at who the Ivy League lets into their graduate programs. I know quite a few Harvard and Yale people who are no balls of fire.

  99. jcer says:

    Rangers fans, one player Gaborik. Ok I’m done. That is what is wrong with the team.

  100. chicagofinance says:

    Stu says:
    December 17, 2009 at 11:52 am
    Pain, Agreed. Now how the heck do the Knicks continue to sell seats?

    Stu: location; location; location…one of the most centrally located and easiest to access sporting venues in the world. The ultimate corporate handout….

  101. chicagofinance says:

    jcer says:
    December 17, 2009 at 11:55 am
    Gator, I’m continually astounded at who the Ivy League lets into their graduate programs. I know quite a few Harvard and Yale people who are no balls of fire.

    You need to be specific relative to programs…..however you essentially already know the answer

  102. lisoosh says:

    RE news from my mid-tier, blue/white collar non-train town.

    Starting to crash.

    At the peak, wouldn’t see a listing under $350.
    Now the lowest end, bad neighbourhood bulldozer ready stuff is trying to be dumped at the low $100′s (and isn’t moving). Few fixers for sale in the low $200′s and then the delusional long term listers of cape cods at $350+. Big spread. Not including the big lot McMansion crowd near me still listing at $850 when comps are in the $600′s already.
    Sales in the $200′s mostly. Will expect the sh*t to hit the fan in the summer.

  103. lisoosh says:

    Next door wannabe top town (delusional) with a big Asian contingent-

    Huge spread between listing prices and sales. Median sales 40% below median listing prices. Only the low end stuff is moving.

    I attribute the wide spread to general “it won’t happen here, we have great schools” delusional thinking.

    They’ll learn.

  104. NJGator says:

    Chifi – Don’t have the details yet. Found out after consuming too many martinis and Lambics. She mentioned something about it being the weekend program I think.

  105. cobbler says:

    gator [93]

    Most people with MBA degrees are outright damaging long-term for the companies they work for – at least when they get into the decision-making. So, it is good that an inept guy gets into the Cornell program: he took a slot from someone with a much greater potential for harm-making later on in life.

  106. Mocha says:

    Lisoosh,

    what area?

  107. jcer says:

    Stu, we will disagree about Parise, he plays great positional hockey, is lightning fast and has great puck handling. He is the real deal and would argue he is every bit as good as Crosby, maybe not Ovechkin or Malkin as I think they are easily the most talented players in the NHL. Players that leave tend to be old, Rolston was better off the devils then he ever was on. Also the devils tend to make players better, Bergfors is a product of the system, they are using his youth and speed combined with the skill and talent of other players. For players on the devils it is about pairing, I think even Elias is far better than his numbers indicate. The players I believe you are referencing were a product of the system and Elias was the reason for their production.

  108. schabadoo says:

    Watching Lemaire’s system is like appreciating art.

    It all comes from Lou. He controls everything that happens within that organization, down to the brand of paper clips.

    Working for him was a study in ruthless efficiency.

  109. chicagofinance says:

    joking or not, I bite my tongue big time; back off

    cobbler says:
    December 17, 2009 at 12:02 pm
    gator [93] Most people with MBA degrees are outright damaging long-term for the companies they work for – at least when they get into the decision-making.

  110. lisoosh says:

    Franklin in Somerset (this is where Clot starts to %%$%^%$$, he hates the town). It’s an odd town. One section borders New Brunswick and is pretty rough, then we go to regular middle class colonials on half an acre, big townhouse complexes, McMansions in Franklin Park (usually on acre+) and a bunch of multi million dollar estates and real mansions on the Princeton side and canal area. With a few farms thrown in.
    The big point isn’t the dollar amounts but the percentage drop. At least 30% so far, nicer, more established middle level neighbourhoods holding on the longest (the colonials).

    The wannabe town is South Brunswick. Lot of softness there, lot of foreclosures coming down the pike.

  111. safeashouses says:

    The end is nigh

    “Tokyo man marries video game character”

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/12/16/japan.virtual.wedding/index.html

  112. Shore Guy says:

    Safe,

    I know some people who married Barbie dolls.

  113. NJGator says:

    Barbara – re your posts last night on the house. Where on Madison? We know folks on Draper, Franklin and Alden, who are generally happy with the area.

    Further north you are close to Maple Ave, which is a bit sketchy (town sent us a multi-family on that street as a comp and it is listed under 200k as a short sale).

    I’d be wary of buying any place marginal in Montclair. The value of those homes has been dropping dramatically compared to more desireable areas of town. I’d also be pretty concerned for my personal safety on some of the blocks south of Bloomfield Ave.

  114. Stu says:

    By the way, Bergfors might be another Parise in the making. He looked awesome in person at the Hurricane game last week. If I was to buy a new sweater, his name would be on it. Unfortunately, the last sweater I bought still has Petr Sykora on it and before that it was Uli Heimer.

  115. lisoosh says:

    Shore Guy says:
    December 17, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    “Safe,

    I know some people who married Barbie dolls.”

    Half of Short Hills, Rumson, Summit etc. etc. etc.

  116. Mocha says:

    I hope so, my wife is losing confidence in me. I convinced her to sell our sprawl townhome back in 2005/06. Now a lot of our friends are running back into the market, patience is getting tough but the fundamentals still aren’t adding up. I poste above but it still is being mod’d, so I’ll say it again sans links.

    The median household cannot afford a median home in NJ.

  117. chicagofinance says:

    NJGator says:
    December 17, 2009 at 12:00 pm
    Chifi – Don’t have the details yet. Found out after consuming too many martinis and Lambics. She mentioned something about it being the weekend program I think.

    General comment about MBA programs
    Rigor of admission standards:
    Campus
    Part-time
    Weekend/Executive

    Other issues: of the quality programs, about 65-80% are white male/asian/south asian….
    Characteristics that allow for substantially variance in candidate quality in increasing order of importance:
    (1) professional background;
    (2) age;
    (3) female helps quite a bit;
    (4) U.S. citizen who is a minority sans asians/south asians is almost a free pass.

    Source organization:
    Conde Nast would be a very attractive non-financial NYC firm to draw candidates. Especially if it was executive education, where the tuition is doubled and paid outright by a sponsoring organization.

  118. Stu says:

    Safe,

    That Japanese dude with his avatar is just plain scary. He belongs in Guantanamo.

  119. Shore Guy says:

    “hearingg “8th Avenue, it’s a sh! street”

    Beach,

    Everything is relative. Also, most troubles are for a season that lasts 120 or so days, and most of them on 3 days each week. If they become pains in th @$$, (in my best sinister German accent) “zear are vays of dealing mit zem.”

  120. NJGator says:

    Chifi – CN nixed Tuition Reimbursement as a benefit last year. Also, even in our glory days the max reimbursement you could get was $2500/year.

    My colleague is a hispanic female.

  121. HEHEHE says:

    Chris Henry…RIP

  122. db says:

    If true this could be Obama’s undoing ..http://www.youtube.com/user/Bigone5555J

  123. safeashouses says:

    #118 lishoosh,

    LOL. So true. I think going to Short Hills Mall is almost as creepy as Camden, but for different reasons. Also, what’s up with so many non asian women getting the asian hair straightening treament? It was like an epidemic of it had broken out when I was with my family at Short hills last weekend.

  124. Shore Guy says:

    “I’d be wary of buying any place marginal in Montclair. The value of those homes has been dropping dramatically compared to more desireable areas of town. I’d also be pretty concerned for my personal safety on some of the blocks south of Bloomfield Ave.”

    C’mon Gator! Get with the program. If there were any crime in Montclair, it would only be committed byprestigious muggers and burglers.

    Montclair has its standards, remember.

  125. 3b says:

    #115 shore:I know some people who married Barbie dolls.

    So do I. However, many of those Barbie dolls turn out to be Brides of Chuckie.

  126. safeashouses says:

    #121 Stu,

    He is a creepy dude. I wonder if he is an extreme example of the young Japanese men being called “grass eaters”, guys who are asexual.

    http://www.slate.com/id/2220535/

    “Japan panics about the rise of “grass-eating men,” who shun sex, don’t spend money, and like taking walks.”

  127. NJGator says:

    Shore 127 – So I should be honored then if I get attacked by one at gun/knife point?

  128. yikes says:

    Nomad says:
    December 17, 2009 at 8:19 am

    Cash flow and net worth are two very different things. Better to have your water source in the form of a lake than a river.

    i like that. u come up with it on your own?

  129. chicagofinance says:

    NJGator says:
    December 17, 2009 at 12:23 pm
    My colleague is a hispanic female.

    Gates: Coming from Conde Nast, she may have been solicited. I know people that have received admits in the mail where all they need to do is fill in all of the information. No essays needed.

    I know of someone who graduate from my class in Chicago with a 570 GMAT. It would literally be impossible for her to handle the quantitative curriculum….

  130. NJGator says:

    Here’s a Montclair townhouse south of Bloomfield Ave that seems to have taken a bit of a value hit:

    47 Gates Ave MLS 2719835

    Sold 7/21/07 515000
    LP 399,900 and “Seller is offering $2500 towards closing costs”

  131. 3b says:

    #99There’s that “unexpected” word again.

    Yeah unexpected by who?? The so called experts??

  132. chicagofinance says:

    Gates: also, she may have been given a whole or partial scholarship…..actually there really is no question…..

  133. Stu says:

    “Japan panics about the rise of “grass-eating men,” who shun sex, don’t spend money, and like taking walks.”

    I suppose I’m a third of the way there!

    Tuition reimbursement at my company was limited to $100 per year. How’s that for a benefit?

  134. yikes says:

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    December 17, 2009 at 9:50 am

    One idea I did have, and that apparently went into practice in some places, was the idea of a co-op, using an old gas station. There is virtually no labor cost and members get cheap gas. You could even start a co-op and run it through an existing station, but there wouldn’t be enough savings to make it worthwhile, esp. in NJ with its no self pump rule (the stand-alone co-op avoids that since the member is also an owner-employee).

    ive said this before but i like where your mind is at.

  135. lisoosh says:

    safeashouses says:
    December 17, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    “#118 lishoosh,

    LOL. So true. I think going to Short Hills Mall is almost as creepy as Camden, but for different reasons. Also, what’s up with so many non asian women getting the asian hair straightening treament? It was like an epidemic of it had broken out when I was with my family at Short hills last weekend.”

    Bairen – I knew I wasn’t a “prestigious top town” kind of gal after 3 events – a visit to Short Hills mall, a “treated” spa outing to Dieci in Livingston and lunch with a colleague in Montclair.
    I’m a bit too down to basics.

    The hair straightening is probably the JAP set (I’m Jewish, I get to say it). Lot have natural curls but the look du jour is very straight and layered.
    My biggest issue is finding a Jewish community that is big enough to support activities but not too “fancy”. A tough order if Lakewood isn’t your thing.

  136. lisoosh says:

    Mocha – my husband isn’t too happy either, and I have had him put his house owning ambitions on hold since 2004.

    Hold in there. Prices are dropping. Took a while to rise, will take a while to fall.

  137. Stu says:

    Lisoosh:

    “My biggest issue is finding a Jewish community that is big enough to support activities but not too “fancy”.”

    Good luck with this one. Let me know if you find anything.

  138. still_looking says:

    lis,

    wow. you could be me… outlook, religion, hair, type of community desired… (!) you sure we weren’t separated at birth?

    sl

  139. yo'me says:

    Sovereign debt collapse = ^ in value of dollar = collapse of value of gold.No need to raise interest rates due to demand of treasuries.

  140. fly-over says:

    Late, but RE: 17
    It depends on which lake and which river.

  141. John says:

    My town is mainly jewish, we support all the activities, once a year passover dinner served take-out style from Bens, the club med vacation at Christmans time so you don’t have to listen to the happy gentiles and the annual pluging in of the Haunkee lights. We even have a JCC to ditch your kids one diner, a trader joes, five chinese restuarants, four malls and five temples. It is paradise

    Stu says:
    December 17, 2009 at 1:15 pm
    Lisoosh:

    “My biggest issue is finding a Jewish community that is big enough to support activities but not too “fancy”.”

    Good luck with this one. Let me know if you find anything.

  142. BC Bob says:

    “Sovereign debt collapse = ^ in value of dollar”

    [142],

    Not even a 1/4 of a woody.

  143. NJGator says:

    Lisoosh – Only place that instantly comes to mind is West Orange. And they’ve got other issues.

    “My biggest issue is finding a Jewish community that is big enough to support activities but not too “fancy”.”

  144. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [55] gator

    Thanks. It was bad as I expected, though not as bad as it could have been. Feud with the jr. partner was the topic of discussion.

    While I got my licks in, I was told in no uncertain terms that the partner may not always have been right, but you aren’t going to win those fights. You are damned if you do and damned if you don’t so make the best of it.

    There is a silver lining: For now, I don’t have to work with the guy or deal with his idiosyncracies, and there is some comeuppance coming his way from an unexpected source. Can’t say more.

  145. yikes says:

    Al Gore says:
    December 17, 2009 at 10:56 am
    I put 100 gallons in my boat with fuel stabilizer. Wife wont let me store the 5 gallon cans near the house.

    5 gallons? why? are people lighting matches in your house often? somebody smoke?

  146. John says:

    OMG Gold Bubble just burst. 1,107.4

  147. ruggles says:

    138 lisoosh – Morris Township

  148. BC Bob says:

    J [149],

    Yeah, heard the same at 750, 850 and we would never trade over 1,000. Now 1,100 after the bubble burst? I’ll take it, correction, took it. Time to get back, scale in down to 1,000. We all luv sales.

  149. Sean says:

    Lisoosh- try Edison or Teaneck.

  150. Mocha says:

    Property taxes in Teaneck are out of control.

  151. Barbara says:

    Lisoosh,
    re: jewish community that isnt too fancy, what about Highland Park? They have a nice YMHA there too.

  152. r says:

    I’m posting this here because I know I’ll get some smart answers and because it is semi-real estate related.

    __What would you do?___

    This past summer I hired an architect to determine what kind of addition I could put on my house given lot size, set backs, town codes, and what ever other restrictions might apply. He came back with an answer and drew up the specs. Based on the drawings I obtained a loan and hired a general contractor.

    The GC applied for permits last week and the town said I have to raise my house at least two feet to be in compliance with FEMA regulations in effect since 2005. The house raising will cost $25 to $30 grand on top of the $275 grand I was already budgeted for. In short, the Architect never looked to see what the FEMA regulations were and because of the mistake I will have to incur these extra costs. I have been assured from another architect, from an attorney and from my GC that my architect’s omission was his fault and not something that should have been missed.

    Had I known from the beginning that a house raising was required, I might not have moved to obtain the loan and contractor. Between the loan closing costs and other expense I am already about $50,000 into the project.

    Question: Does anyone think I could recover the extra costs to raise the house from the architect?

    Any lawyers here who would like to chime in or have any recommendations.

  153. Barbara says:

    r says,
    I have to know, what is “raising a house” in terms of an addition? This scares me.

  154. r says:

    To Barbara

    I have to lift the house an extra two feet off the ground.

  155. Barbara says:

    r says
    was there something uniquely low about your house?

  156. r says:

    Barb.

    It is in a flood zone. Given the amount of work planned, FEMA requires the lift under new post Katrina rules. There would be no FEMA requirement if I do not do the addition.

  157. Sean says:

    re: #155 – you need a good contract lawyer to look over the paperwork, go get a consultation they are usually free, although some shysters will try and take you for every penny you have.

    Is this for flood protection?

    FYI, FEMA gives out grants for this to the States and towns to pay for raising the house. You might want to look into the program, there could be some money available to pay for it.

    http://www.fema.gov/government/grant/fma/index.shtm

    Flood Mitigation Program

  158. cobbler says:

    r – if your house is in the flood zone, you should have let the architect know about it (and your mortgage company would absolutely want you to have flood insurance on the house). If it is not in the flood zone, FEMA doesn’t care how high the house stands.

  159. cobbler says:

    oops, too late

  160. make money says:

    Bc,

    I’ve been hoping with get to 975 range on shiny so that I can contact Schiff with an order.

    John,

    Remember, until we change course and get serious about strengthening teh greenback shiny will continue to be in a Bull market. I’ll tell you what can cause shiny to drop 50% from these levels. Fire Ben and hire Volcker. I will sell my shiny on rumor alone.

  161. John says:

    Yea until central banks of shaky countries start dumping gold

  162. John says:

    Flood insurance stinks, it is almost 1% meaning a 100K policy can cost almost $1,000 a year. And that policy does not cover contents. Also most policies do not cover any part of house like basement or crawl space that is below ground level. Rates are set pretty much so shopping around won’t help much. Good news only people with a mortgage has to get it. Bad news is if you do a HELOC and lets say you have a 100K line and your balance is zero bank will still make you take out a policy.

  163. BC Bob says:

    John [164],

    HMMM. Unfortunately, they are buried in dollars.

  164. BC Bob says:

    make [163],

    Next support is 1,050-1,070. Watch, if it gets there, the 82 level in the dollar index.

    Also, there will be less liquidity, each day, from now till the holidays. Hedge funds will be looking to lock in their year. There can be some violent moves in this environment. I’m looking to take advantage of s/t weakness.

  165. meter says:

    “My biggest issue is finding a Jewish community that is big enough to support activities but not too “fancy”.”

    Cherry Hill? Sure there is status seeking but it’s nothing on par with North Jersey. Might be too far south depending on your work sitch.

  166. Veto That says:

    Get used to this. We are headed for some extreme measures on the state/local levels. also, Old Bridge in middlesex county just announced 14 layoffs last week i think.

    Mercer County, News »
    Robbinsville sets layoffs, pay decreases, furloughs
    By The Star-Ledger Continuous News Desk
    December 17, 2009, 7:20AM

    ROBBINSVILLE — The mayor of the township announced Wednesday he is cutting positions, giving out pay decreases, and giving furloughs to his staff of 127 employees to close a $1.2 million shortfall next year, a report in the Times of Trenton said.

    Mayor Dave Fried told the newspaper he is cutting the equivalent of 9.5 positions through layoffs, changing a position to part-time and not filling in vacancies. All department heads will take a 2 percent pay decrease, and all other employees other than fire and police will get furloughs, including the mayor and council members, according to the report. Starting next year, all employees will pay 1 percent of their health insurance, and co-pays will increase from $10 to $20, the report said.

  167. safeashouses says:

    #169 Veto

    Starting next year, all employees will pay 1 percent of their health insurance, and co-pays will increase from $10 to $20

    Oh the humanity!!
    Cry me a fcuking river gov employees.

  168. Barbara says:

    gee, 1% beats 100%, right?

  169. chicagofinance says:

    Barbara says:
    December 17, 2009 at 2:12 pm
    Lisoosh,
    re: jewish community that isnt too fancy, what about Highland Park? They have a nice YMHA there too.

    Barb: this is a good call…lish…in Monmouth County, have you considered Elberon/WLB? Also Marlboro has got some nice heebie-jeebies……I don’t know whether NJ has a proper Borscht Belt….

  170. Veto That says:

    “My biggest issue is finding a Jewish community that is big enough to support activities but not too “fancy”.”

    lish, maplewood seems like middle class jew heaven. is that kosher with you?
    also, fair lawn?

  171. John says:

    “middle class jew” A bergen county oxymoron

  172. Veto That says:

    john thats actually essex.

    my step dad was jewish. his preference was to to live as far from a jewish community as possible. dont really know why but whenever anyone would ask me if i was jewish, i would respond by saying, ‘heck no. my d*&k is way bigger than my pinky.’

  173. chicagofinance says:

    a light at the end of the tunnel for gator

    the more stu writes on the blog, the better off you will be based on this article

    WSJ
    CHEAPSKATE
    DECEMBER 17, 2009
    Learning to Spend (a Little) More
    By NEAL TEMPLIN

    Writing this column has had a disturbing effect on me: I’m getting less cheap.

    Have I become a free spender? Hardly. In the coming months, I will be singing the virtues of everything from cheap haircuts to greasy-spoon restaurants. Still, I’ve noticed some small but noticeable changes in my spending habits.

    The biggest is tipping. As a former busboy, I never stiffed waiters. But I used to think a 15% tip was just fine unless the service was outstanding. I learned through writing a column on the subject that 20% is rapidly becoming the standard tip. So that’s pretty much what I give now.

    Of course, if I thought 20% was outrageous, I wouldn’t care what other people tip. But waiting tables is a tough, underpaid job, and I decided tipping an extra 5% made more difference to the waiter than it did to me. (It amounts to only an extra dollar on a $20 meal.)

    The more subtle change has been around the house. I’m generally getting less bent out of shape when my wife, Clarissa, and the kids spend money on things I consider a waste. The shift has been subtle enough that Clarissa says she’s barely noticed. “Just a smidgen,” she told me. “Or as we say in cooking, ‘A dash.’”

    Well, it has seemed like more than a smidgen to me. But I’ll come back to that.

    The more pressing question: Why would writing a column on being cheap make a person less so? Wouldn’t it have the opposite effect?

    I talked to some academics who have researched tightwads, and they weren’t surprised. Cheapskates have an emotional aversion to spending—they can actually experience pain when they spend. The pain can be out of proportion to the amount spent.

    So if you want to make a person less cheap, the cognitive side of his personality has to override the emotional. One way to do this is to make that person explain in writing why he’s being cheap.

    The goal is to encourage “heightened deliberations,” says Scott Rick, an assistant professor of marketing at the University of Michigan. “That will tend to extinguish the influence of emotion.”

    Thanks to The Wall Street Journal, I’ve conducted a giant writing experiment on being cheap, penning thousands of words on the subject over the past 18 months.

    And I haven’t liked everything I’ve learned about myself. I’ve had to ponder the times when my penny-pinching irritated my family or when I denied myself some small pleasure because it wasn’t the cheapest choice.

    The result: I’m making an effort to not be automatically against every expenditure. I try to bear in mind that it isn’t usually the little purchases that drag down a household budget. Far more important is how big a house you buy, how expensive a car you drive, where you send your kids to school.

    It’s not an easy transformation for me. Wasting money on little things still bothers me quite a bit. Let me give you an example. We had some friends over for dinner a couple of months ago. So Clarissa ran out and bought a large electric coffee maker for $40 before the dinner.

    I thought it wasteful. I don’t drink coffee, and our children, all now adults, don’t either. Clarissa drinks just one cup a day. So we’re never going to use this coffee maker unless we have company over.

    After that dinner, Clarissa asked who wanted coffee, and nobody did. So the coffee maker went unopened. It sat there. I asked Clarissa about it once, and she said she planned to return it to the store. She didn’t. It’s still sitting in our den because Clarissa says she might need it some day.

    Before, I would have nagged her several times about the pot. The thought of us owning another appliance we didn’t need would have bugged me. More so than the $40.

    This time I bit my tongue, mainly. To me, that’s a change. To Clarissa, the fact I mentioned the coffee pot at all shows I haven’t really changed. In any event, Clarissa thinks any talk from me about not being as cheap as before is beside the point.

    “You were never as cheap as you thought,” she informed me. “Because I was spending the money anyway.”

  174. still_looking says:

    Oy Gevalt.

    sl

  175. chicagofinance says:

    grim unmod….the Proz med

  176. lisoosh says:

    Stu – the only thing I can come up with is a kibbutz, but they don’t have those aroundhere.

    Still -I think I am the left wing version of you. My hair is naturally straight though. We do need to meet at some point in time, I’m not even that far from you place of work.

    John -only thing worse than NJ Jews are LI Jews.

    Gator – I always think of W. Orange as more the older money set, especially Llewelyn park, we had a lot of solid donors from there.

  177. db says:

    Who said there are no jobs ? In the last decade, New Jersey lost 94,300 private-sector jobs – but added 68,200 public sector jobs.Just head
    on down to town hall and tell you WANT a job !

  178. lisoosh says:

    ruggles, I know, Randolph especially is fast growing. They are the children of the Livingston set though. Too much new money around Mendham although I know some nice long timers there.

    Sean – please say you are kidding. Teaneck????

  179. lisoosh says:

    Barbara, while a bit religious I actually like Highland Park. I want something more rural though.

  180. Sean says:

    More Citi news. Stike Three Timmay!

    The U.S. government abruptly shelved plans to start trimming its 34% stake in Citigroup Inc., after investors demanded a price so low that the Treasury Department would have lost money on the deal.

    The embarrassing reversal came two days after the Treasury said it planned to sell as much as $5 billion of stock in the New York company, as part of Citigroup’s plan to pay back $20 billion in taxpayer aid the troubled bank received last year.

    The huge offering encountered a lukewarm reception on Wall Street, where investors were skeptical of the company’s earnings prospects and had already …

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126100573858094185.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsTop

  181. Barbara says:

    confused, I thought “a bit religious” was the point?

  182. Schumpeter says:

    Chris Henry = TSTL

    Every minute of that guy’s adult life was on borrowed time.

  183. Schumpeter says:

    The next time I argue with my wife, I think I’ll jump onto the back of her car and see how long I can hold on.

  184. lisoosh says:

    Went further down the thread. Wow, thanks for all the suggestions :-) very sweet.

    Chi -Marlboro is big hair SI transplant heaven.

    Flemington is probably more realistic for me.

  185. John says:

    I actually like the LI ones better. I absolutely loved growing up in Great Neck Long Island in the 1970′s and was always amazed as the brand new Mercedes would pull up to Best Bagel in Middle Neck road (same place Cher met the Bagel Boy of Great Neck) and the ladies with their holocost tatoo numbers clearly visibile would buy their bagels and lox. A very forgiving people considering the model car they adored.

    John -only thing worse than NJ Jews are LI Jews.

  186. Schumpeter says:

    Inevitably, when pro athletes get into public scraps with their women, they aren’t wearing a shirt.

    WTF?

  187. Schumpeter says:

    lisoosh (188)-

    Lots of very uptight, Zionist Jews in Flemington.

  188. Schumpeter says:

    John (189)-

    You should see the reparation checks my in-laws get from the German gubmint. More than chump change…

  189. lisoosh says:

    Barbara says:
    December 17, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    “confused, I thought “a bit religious” was the point?”

    :-)
    Highland park has a large Orthodox community due to the eruv (line around the town, long story). We trend Cons/Reform/freelance. It’s more about having enough around for a Bar/Bat Mitzvah and cultural familiarity without being overwhelmed.

    And without shiny, screechy JAP’s or big hair.

  190. Al Gore says:

    So do you guys still want government run healthcare? Do you think we can afford it?

    LMAO

    Check out the 2008 CIA fact book of national account balances world wide.

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html

  191. lisoosh says:

    Clot – oh dear. Even my Israeli politics veer left.

  192. NJGator says:

    Lisoosh – Llewelyn Park is definitely not the norm for West Orange.

    You are right about Marlboro though. My folks moved from SI to Marlboro when I was 8. Monmouth County was “the country” to them. By the time I was in junior high, half of my PS 32 classmates from Great Kills had joined us.

    But I never had big hair. Honest.

  193. Schumpeter says:

    Jews in the Clinton area tend to be reform/mixed marriage.

    Check out Or Chadash on Rt 31. Good congregation & half the members are named O’Brien.

  194. Schumpeter says:

    lisoosh (195)-

    Does this make you a self-loathing Jew?

    “Even my Israeli politics veer left.”

  195. Veto That says:

    lish, i thought you were scottish?
    scottish jewish?

  196. Sean says:

    re: #181 – Lisoosh _ I used to hang out with the Jewish kids from Alpine. To us Teaneck was not too “fancy”.

  197. John says:

    Those imprisoned up to 12 months will receive some $900 each year, those imprisoned between 12 and 30 months will receive about $1,100, and those imprisoned longer than 30 months will receive about $1,400. All of the payments will be made annually.

  198. John says:

    I had an Alpine car stereo once. You guys are the bomb.

  199. Essex says:

    East coast Jews are some of the most unappealing people I have ever met.

    Signed, A Midwestern Jew.

  200. kettle1 says:

    from zerohedge:

    Markets are grinding around sideways, meanwhile most participants are waiting to see if a nuclear bomb is going to go off between now and the end of the year. As usual, money is fleeing back into dollars, bonds, and REITs, the typical safe havens during a brewing “crisis”.

    REITS safe in this environment????

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/waiting-nuclear-bomb

  201. John says:

    New Giants-Jets Stadium Will Bid for 2014 Super Bowl (Update2) Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A
    By Aaron Kuriloff

    Dec. 17 (Bloomberg) — The new home of the New York Giants and Jets will bid to host the National Football League’s 2014 Super Bowl title game in East Rutherford, New Jersey, the teams’ stadium company said.

    The New Meadowlands Stadium Co. is “mounting a full-scale campaign to capture the hosting rights” to the game after receiving permission to bid from the league owners’ Super Bowl Advisory Committee, according to a company statement. The game would be in February 2014, following the 2013 season.

    The committee approved the company’s application to bid despite the league’s traditional requirements that host sites have a minimum temperature of 50 degrees or a climate-controlled indoor stadium, the release said, calling the bid “a unique, once-only circumstance based on the opportunity to celebrate the new stadium.”

    The $1.6 billion, open-air stadium, scheduled to begin operations in 2010, will be the first built to serve as the home of two NFL teams and will host 20 regular and preseason games each year, more than any other venue. The 82,500-seat stadium also is about 10 miles west of the NFL’s headquarters on Park Avenue in Midtown Manhattan.

    ‘Great Tradition’

    “The National Football League and our organization are blessed with a great tradition in the metropolitan New York region, and the Giants’ and Jets’ new home is a continuation of that tradition,” said Giants Owner John Mara. “Our building playing host to the Super Bowl in 2014 would allow our organizations and this region to celebrate that tradition with our biggest game and we welcome the opportunity to work with our community to make that happen.”

    The New York area never has held a Super Bowl, which has been played a combined 18 times in Miami and New Orleans. The coldest temperature at kickoff was 39 degrees Fahrenheit, during Super Bowl VI in January 1972 at Tulane Stadium in New Orleans, according to the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

    The coldest NFL game on record was the 1967 championship between the Dallas Cowboys and Green Bay Packers in Green Bay, Wisconsin. The temperature at kickoff on Dec. 31 was -13 degrees and the game became known as the “Ice Bowl.”

    The average February temperature at Newark Airport, about 20 miles from the Meadowlands sports complex, is about 34 degrees, according to data from the New Jersey state climatologist.

    Miami will host its 10th Super Bowl after this season, followed by Dallas in 2011, Indianapolis in 2012 and New Orleans in 2013.

    To contact the reporter on this story: Aaron Kuriloff in New York at akuriloff@bloomberg.net.

    Last Updated: December 17, 2009 15:24 EST

  202. Veto That says:

    Russians confirm that UK climate scientists manipulated data to exaggerate global warming

    What the Russians are suggesting here, in other words, is that the entire global temperature record used by the IPCC to inform world government policy is a crock.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100020126/climategate-goes-serial-now-the-russians-confirm-that-uk-climate-scientists-manipulated-data-to-exaggerate-global-warming/

  203. kettle1 says:

    Schump 187

    Can someone please explain why people still seem hung up on it being OK for businesses to walk away from RE purchases but a home owner is amoral/bad/reckless for doing the same thing?

    Gee, MS just walked on a few billion and people seem to get hot under the collar of homeowners walking away from properties that are about 0.01% of that value.

  204. Barbara says:

    Lisoosh,
    I grew up in Cherry Hill, its a dead ringer for what you are describing. Nice people, great schools. But, it is a ways south

  205. still_looking says:

    Veto 206

    Of course it is… but we need a new scare tactic to manipulate everyone on the planet.

    Is there no safe haven anywhere in the world anymore?? Used to be people came here to flee oppression and look for opportunity. Now we are exploited, lied to, stolen from and manipulated.

    Where do you go from here??

    sl

  206. Shore Guy says:

    ” So I should be honored then if I get attacked by one at gun/knife point?”

    Gator,

    Of course. In town like Montclair, with the wealth that abounds, to be chosen for acute involuntary redistribution of wealth (mugging is such an ugly word) is a real mark of honor. Everyone in Montclair should be so lucky. Most residents there have to rely on the non-exclusive theft of their wealth –taxes.

  207. HEHEHE says:

    Citigroup: The Problem That Won’t Go Away

    “Ho, ho, ho — Santa Claus seems to have swung by Wall Street a bit early this year.

    The Washington Post reports, “The federal government quietly agreed to forgo billions of dollars in potential tax payments from Citigroup (C) as part of the deal announced this week to wean the company from the massive taxpayer bailout that helped it survive the financial crisis.”

    How generous of them.

    When I received a notice from the IRS in my mailbox this November, informing me that I underpaid the government by $300 back in 2003, I was rattled. I didn’t sleep until I was able to get my accountant on the phone the next morning. As it turned out, the taxman owed me money. But then, I’m just a regular guy. Not a bank.”

    http://www.minyanville.com/articles/print.php?a=25977

  208. kettle1 says:

    Nom,

    RE Fuel stabilizer

    Do your own research, but mine pointed to this stuff
    http://www.priproducts.com/

    as being a better product…. whatever works for you.

  209. jcer says:

    That only in comparison to ALPINE, one of the richest towns in the country!

  210. Shore Guy says:

    Gator,

    No big hair — ever? Not even the ’80s?

  211. chicagofinance says:

    chicagofinance says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    December 17, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    For the good of the blog….

    Despite calls for medication, building the case to keep clot off his meds….

    WSJ
    CAPITAL
    DECEMBER 17, 2009

    A Pr0zac Economy Has Its Costs
    By DAVID WESSEL

    A tantalizing question arises in profound debates about the nature of the human mind: If Van Gogh or Mozart had been on Pr0zac, would they have been spared the agony of depression or would the world have been denied their great art?

    The financial crisis and ensuing deep recession raise an analogous question. Do we face a choice: A dynamic, volatile economy with painful episodes like the recent one to get faster long-run growth in living standards versus a more stable economy with fewer crises but also slower growth over time?

    If we could find the economic equivalent of Pr0zac — a c0cktail of “financial stability” overseers, tighter restraints on banks, wise government rule to prevent market excesses — would it bring a calmer prosperity or a less prosperous calm?

    Europe has long advocated for a stable economy; the U.S. has preferred a dynamic one. WSJ’s David Wessel says those mindsets are clashing once again during the current crisis.

    In a sense, this is a new chapter in a long-running debate between Europe and the U.S. “In the past 20 years, a very extensive political system was built on preserving stability in Europe,” Andrzej Rapaczynski , a Columbia University law professor said at a conference last weekend in Berlin convened by Columbia’s Center on Capitalism and Society. “It fell under attack by the American risk-loving system. There is now a certain feeling that the world has been victimized by the U.S.,” he observed. As a result, he suggested, “a correction of a fundamental ideological kind is under way.” It seems to prize stability over risk even at the cost of less innovation.

    All this provokes (at least) three responses.

    One says: It’s a false choice. Peter Kramer , a psychiatrist and author, decries those who see treating depression as somehow different than treating syphilis or epilepsy, both of which once were associated with bursts of creativity. Depression is an illness to be conquered, he insists. Some economists look at the economy the same way. We shouldn’t tolerate the panics and depressions that plagued earlier generations, they say. “We want high prosperity but we want it without crisis because crises hurt prosperity,” Edmund Phelps , the Nobel laureate, said in Berlin.

    Stephen Roach, the Morgan Stanley economist, argued that the boom was a mirage, false prosperity driven by excessive leverage. Surrendering such euphoria denies us nothing in terms of long-run economic growth, only the pain of deep depression. The ups of the 2000s were smaller than the downs; it was a lost decade.

    A second says: This is a bad choice. Overemphasizing stability in the wake of the crisis will mean less wealth for the next generation. Standing not far from where the Berlin Wall once towered, German entrepreneur Peter Jungen said, “Without the dynamic growth since the fall of the Wall, we probably wouldn’t be where we are today. Would we be happier?” His answer: No! Capitalism, he said, means lurching from crisis to crisis and getting stronger over time. “We need more capitalism than we have,” he insisted.

    A third says: This tension must be managed, not denied. “We can acknowledge capitalism is not stable, and deal with it,” said New York University economist Roman Frydman . “We no longer have to defend capitalism against communism.” He argues not for aiming at “stability,” but instead at what’s been dubbed in other contexts “bounded instability” or the “edge of chaos.” Accept the ups and down, but strive to avoid the very highest peaks and very deepest troughs, he said. “Markets ultimately self-correct. They just do it too late.”

    Until a few years ago, the U.S. implicitly accepted the view that stability was overrated. The Asian financial crisis was their problem, not ours. The tech-stock bubble of the late 1990s burst, but did no lasting harm. Bankruptcies, layoffs and worthless stock options were the price of entrepreneurial risk-taking that also produced the likes of Google. And all that Wall Street financial innovation, well, it seemed to make people rich without making anyone else poor.

    That view is now being challenged. The painful recession has provoked discussion inside the U.S. Federal Reserve, which once shrugged off bubbles in stocks and house prices, about when and how to pre-empt bubbles before they burst. A similar reconsideration lurks behind the debates in Washington and other capitals about what financial innovation should be banned, how much bankers should be restrained, when government should interfere with markets.

    Fundamentally, this is not a technical question, but a bigger one. “The regulation we are going to get will be much more a matter of politics than economics,” said Mr. Rapaczynski. “Economists are prone to forget this. They believe in markets and believe in philosopher-kings with economists as the philosophers.”

    If we could be sure that economic and financial stability can coincide or even produce faster growth over time, the choice would be easy. We can’t be sure. So ultimately, this is going to be a political — in the best sense of the word — decision. If we’re lucky, the political system and central banks will devise ways to get more stability without stifling innovation and dynamism. We might not be lucky.

    Clumsy, ill-conceived and hot-headed efforts advertised as avoiding a repeat of the current crisis could yield neither more stability nor more growth. That would be unwelcome.

  212. chicagofinance says:

    lisoosh says:
    December 17, 2009 at 3:50 pm
    And without shiny, screechy JAP’s or big hair.

    l: this is NJ…………

  213. schabadoo says:

    That only in comparison to ALPINE, one of the richest towns in the country!

    —Suckas, if I ha my own blog and sold advertising space, I would be able to afford a mansion in Alpine. I usually go against the common flow so that is why I am always popular on every forum/blog I use. —

    Did he ever sell?

  214. chicagofinance says:

    Essex says:
    December 17, 2009 at 4:07 pm
    East coast Jews are some of the most unappealing people I have ever met.
    Signed, A Midwestern Jew.

    Essex: Russian jews….some of the most fcuked up people I have ever met considering their superior intelligence…..

  215. chicagofinance says:

    Barbara says:
    December 17, 2009 at 4:20 pm
    Lisoosh, I grew up in Cherry Hill, its a dead ringer for what you are describing. Nice people, great schools. But, it is a ways south

    Barb: south jersey is effectively staten island; if she turns her nose up at good north/central jersey towns then you cannot go south of the Mason-Dixon line (a.k.a. Princeton)…..

  216. jcer says:

    Lets just face it, it transcends race, religion, culture, wealthy NY metro people are snobs and pretty much suck. I’ve seen it among all of the various groups, its all a giant who’s bigger contest. Who has the more expensive car, best vacations, most expensive clothes, earns the most money, yadda, yadda, yadda when really it is all just a big show. Essex , most midwesterners find people in the east unappealing, as easterners are materialists and flaunt wealth in ways that is frowned upon in the midwest.

    Chicago, note RUSSIAN, years of USSR have made them really crazy to the point where it has effect them as a people. Russians tend to be pretty crazy.

  217. Barbara says:

    ChiFi
    I tend to agree but the cherry hill/voorhess is a large pocket of civilization. Still, the guido/guida is strong in SJ, no argument here.

  218. Barbara says:

    speaking of, new jersey shore tonight. Your assignment, watch for colorful discussion tomorrow. You know you love it.

  219. d2b says:

    I didn’t realize that there was a Blackberry problem today until I received 10 emails at one time. I just thought it was a glitch with out company. Funny that it happened on a day when they released positive earnings.

    Saw a headline that sales were attributed to strong holiday sales. That seems to be a stretch.

    Spoke to my friend in the mall today. They are down 15% yoy through December 14th. They consider themselves lucky.

  220. d2b says:

    Whenever I hear a New Yorker complain about Philadelphia, New Jersey, or the southern New Jersey shore, I’m happy because it means that they are not moving here.

  221. Veto That says:

    Al Gore was right.
    see for your self.

    http://endofworld.net/

  222. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [227] d2b

    Don’t be that sanguine. NY’ers b1tch about the Boston area all the time, yet they still move there in droves.

    NYers just like to b1tch. As Mayor Lenny said in Ghostbusters II: “Being miserable and treating other people like dirt is every New Yorker’s God-given right.”

  223. d2b says:

    Nom-
    Just kidding. I was born in Roxbourough which is near Manayunk in Philadelphia. More like the suburbs than the city. Going into the regular city is like a culture shock for me, even though I went to HS and College in the city.

    NYC is completely out of my league.

  224. Veto That says:

    “the guido/guida is strong in SJ, no argument here.”

    Barbara, there are definately no guidos in sj. just because they still use aqua net does not qualify them.
    Hicks, pineys, hill billies, drunks and union workers yes, but no guidos.

  225. Nomad says:

    jcer says:
    December 17, 2009 at 5:27 pm
    Lets just face it, it transcends race, religion, culture, wealthy NY metro people are snobs and pretty much suck. I’ve seen it among all of the various groups, its all a giant who’s bigger contest. Who has the more expensive car, best vacations, most expensive clothes, earns the most money, yadda, yadda, yadda when really it is all just a big show. Essex , most midwesterners find people in the east unappealing, as easterners are materialists and flaunt wealth in ways that is frowned upon in the midwest.

    Chicago, note RUSSIAN, years of USSR have made them really crazy to the point where it has effect them as a people. Russians tend to be pretty crazy.

    As a midwesterner I say Bravo – well said. The east coast is loaded with miserable people who seem to suffer from esteem issues. I lived in one of the fancy train towns – some very rich folk but a whole bunch leveraged to the hilt w home equity loans, leased cars, and a wardrobe financed on visa – faux wealth if you will.

    A pig in a tuxedo is, well, a pig.

    How would I describe many of these folks: All hat and no cattle.

  226. jcer says:

    Nomad, spent a bunch of years in the midwest, parents lived in Nebraska for a while, and girlfriend is from Michigan. Not a huge fan of the midwest but I can see the differences, it’s pretty funny around the holidays in midtown when we go out to eat people think were tourists. The issue is that NYC is one of the epicenters of talent, wealth, etc and being among very smart and or wealthy people can tend to drive people’s self esteem down and makes people associate the material possessions with success and as a result these people are flaunting it to try to project an image of success. I know some really rich people, they don’t have to flaunt anything, if you met them you’d think they are hired help, yet they are worth a couple hundred million. The rich have nothing to prove and while they have nice things they are very nonchalant about them, they don’t have to point out their new bentley or boat in conversation repeatedly. You see this a lot in Palm Beach as well, faux wealth.

  227. Essex says:

    221. Define f*cked up…..

  228. Essex says:

    I married a Presbyterian and she converted. Never would have worked out with a JAP.

  229. Essex says:

    My east coast family on my mom’s side are all Church of England people despite the fact that the dad’s folks were Holocaust survivors. I guess you go either way after listening to those stories.

  230. Barbara says:

    231 Veto, you are simply, 100% wrong. Anyone who has lived in SJ KNOWS that most of Camden County and part of Burlington, down to AC and MArgate/Wildwood is filled with South Philly and NE Philly transplants.
    Bitch, please.

  231. Veto That says:

    barbara,

    actually, im not that familiar with that area of the state. 231 was just my impression so you are prob right, depending on your definition of a guido.

    btw, you are pretty fckng hard core and i mean that as a compliment. Do you head butt your husband in the face when he disagrees with you? rock on.

  232. d2b says:

    SJ- love the area from Collingswood to Cherry Hill. Would love to live in Medford.
    I need a better understanding of the whole guido mentality before I believe that folks from Sphilly or Sjersey are of the persuasion. That crap on MTV is full of circus freaks. I live in Wildwood all summer and that sh1t is over the top even for me. Scares me to think that this happens all summer above AC. I really don’t see it near me. Wildwood has lost much of its Italian following. We see more SW Philly and River ward people, lower/middle class Irish.

  233. Schumpeter says:

    vodka (207)-

    I can’t explain it. However, the stigma of defaulting on residential mortgages is dwindling fast.

  234. d2b says:

    Yeah, Barb. You need a different job so you can post more.

  235. Barbara says:

    veto,
    I’m totally goofing on the internets, I just don’t use emoticons cause I think they’re gay, in the junior high sense.

  236. Schumpeter says:

    I’m Episcopalian, my wife is Jewish, my kids are fairly secular (except when they want to score 8 days of Hannukah presents), and I don’t need to know anybody’s religion in order to develop a rich hatred for them.

  237. Schumpeter says:

    This guy Chris Henry died today, and I really don’t like him.

  238. Barbara says:

    db2,
    you should see the FB pics of some of my old HS mates. They all look like they rolled in Nestle’s Quik powder, in a club wearing the cheap stretchy attire, throwing up the hand signs…..in their 30s and 40s…ugh

  239. Veto That says:

    “veto, you are simply, 100% wrong.
    bitch, please.”

    ok barb but if this was you hitting on me, i should just say upfront that i am happily married.

  240. Essex says:

    243…as a reform Jew I have been compared to Episcopalians…

  241. Essex says:

    I roll on Shabbos. usually.

  242. Barbara says:

    the “bitch please” was an snl reference, although it is obscure. I guess I disagreed so strongly because I spent 18 years of my life putting up with hair geled meatheads and their female counterparts. Jersey Shore, in my experience, isn’t that over the top.

  243. Veto That says:

    This clip right here is reason enough to watch every single episode.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/10/jersey-shore-girl-punched_n_388203.html

  244. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (230) D2B

    I know where ‘yunk and rox are. I lived in CC for 5 years. And the wife is from Bucks.

    We hung out in manayunk a lot.

  245. Nomad says:

    jcer 233,

    everyone is different, thanks why Baskin & Robbins has so many flavors (i thought 41 now). east coast has some positive things about it but I have often said if it is so great, why are the people so unhappy or mean.

    very interesting how people get self esteem from the kind of car they drive, cloths etc when the reality is (am I’m no psychologist) is that if you need stuff to make you feel good then are you not really exhibiting that you are not proud of who you are and need to try to boost yourself with what you have?

    do you think europeans living in 1,000 sq ft homes have a better quality of life then us?

  246. Veto That says:

    actually barb, i guess there were a few guidos in toms river high schools too but they were watered down want-to-bes who thought it was cool to be from northern jersey but in some respects that can make it worse because they stood out like some kind of sore thumb anachronism and commanded way more attention than if they were at lodi high.

  247. Essex says:

    252…My car is my only real extravagance. I have always been a car person. I would drive a RWD Camaro or a vette if we had a better weather pattern here, so I drive an AWD German Luxo Sedan…and it really is not an ego thing. I just like the way it feels. When I was in grad school I drove a vintage german car my dad gave me and I got pretty bored with people asking me about it. Really. It’s value was nothing more than a decent Honda…but people are generally easily impressed.

  248. Al Gore says:

    Veto,

    Thank you for spreading the truth. Its refreshing to not be the only one smashing his head against the wall.

  249. Nomad says:

    Essex,

    if you really want to drive your german iron, take it out to the track. you will then be impressed by what it’s capable of. google your local bmw, porsche or audi club and see what the ’10 track schedule is. make sure your dealer torques everything down and checks the suspension and brakes before you go. you will need a helmet too.

    lime rock, pocono or the track in nazareth

  250. jcer says:

    Its not about want you own or wanting nice things, it is about the reason you want it and buying it only if you can afford it. The material things should be about you not other people, it is sad when someone buy something, or does something to impress others.

    I enjoy a nice car as well but I bought mine because I like driving it and it does what I need it to do, I don’t besmirch people for having money and nice things, only for their arrogance. I have plenty of personal extravagances, car, eating out, ski vacations, season hockey tickets, etc but I spend on this because I want to and don’t judge others for not spending or being unable to do so.

  251. Veto That says:

    “people get self esteem from the kind of car they drive, cloths etc
    if you need stuff to make you feel good then are you not proud of who you are and need to try to boost yourself with what you have?”

    nomad, have you ever been to LA? where people spend 50% of their incomes on their cars, while they cant afford health care or home furnishings. I think you will find that nj has a fair amount of understated wealth but dont forget that we have high incomes so you will see a fair amount of 8 Series beamers in a state like that, even if the owners are not trying to impress anyone. NJ definately isnt the farm belt, where we keep it real and deprive ourselves.
    have you ever driven an $80k euro car to work? its worth every penny and for anyone who is half the enthusiast that can afford it, will buy a ton of happiness for themselves.

  252. safeashouses says:

    #232 jcer

    a whole bunch leveraged to the hilt w home equity loans, leased cars, and a wardrobe financed on visa – faux wealth if you will.

    Those people are not showing off wealth, but loneliness and unhappiness

  253. Essex says:

    256. That doesn’t sound too bad, but this thing has to last me for a while. I have moved to cash only….no credit…and this girl needs to get me through a long road. I rev it up on trips around town and she likes it, but I am afraid tracking it might be a bit much. My brother in law worked for Penske for a while and has two Indy 500 rings….he now has “anytime” access to the greatest track in America….tempted!

  254. jcer says:

    Cali, is the same as the east, seemingly anywhere you have successful people you have the pretenders. Again, totally understand buying stuff if you have the means, I spent $1500 on a coffee maker, I don’t normally advertise that fact but I consider it worth every penny, most people would consider it a ridiculous purchase but that is not what matters. What matters to me is that I can get a cappuccino, by pressing a button without going to starbucks. Other people love cars or yachts or fishing. The key is they aren’t passing judgement on others and they are buying this stuff because it makes them happy. There is no one in the world who doesn’t enjoy nice things, if you think otherwise you are deluding yourself.

  255. Veto That says:

    “Its refreshing to not be the only one smashing his head against the wall.”

    Gore, i am definately not banging my head against the wall about a global warming conspiracy. its not even on my top-10-things-to-worry-about list. on the contrary im generally in support of any tax that stops people from pissing all over mother earth. but i dont mind sharing articles if im scanning anyway.

    and we all know you will be the first to hyperventilate to us your version of what is occuring in coppenhagen.

  256. Al Gore says:

    262.

    You would probably also be in favor of a 1 child policy if the UN told you the world was overpopulated.

    I guess some people are truly happy having the government control their lives from cradle to grave.

    Enlightening to say the least. I guess your top 10 things to worry about list would include?

  257. Barbara says:

    Al Gore, somethings are just true. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it a conspiracy. This mentality is lazy.

  258. Veto That says:

    “I guess your top 10 things to worry about list would include?”

    people like you worry me.

    the earth is overpopulated until we can learn how to grow our population with out destroying the earth. we need to tax additional children. you think i want 12-children families hogging my oxygen, spreading pestulance and lowering my standard of living and from across the planet?

  259. Al Gore says:

    Holy sh#t its worse than I thought. It really is a mental illness.

  260. kettle1 says:

    Note

    You can buy substantial amounts of brain melting pleasure if you have the funds. But that does not equate to buying hsppiness.

    That is the point that i think gets lost. Just because you are fitfully entertained by 1000$ hookers and a Kilo of blow doesnt mean you are happy. Pleasure yes, happiness? Not for most people.

    My german car is a pleasure to drive, its for me and not for the rest of the world, but i have no illusions of it being the basis of my happiness.

  261. kettle1 says:

    Note 2

    German cars are fun tot drive BUT IT SUCKS PAYING FOR THE MAINTENANCE

  262. kettle1 says:

    Dont forget that happiness is relative. Some poor village from the nastier parts of Congo plopped into your life would be worry free and substantially happier then you are with your daily life.

    You plodded into Bill gates life would probably be much happier with his life then he is with his own.

    relativity is a b1tch