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	<title>Comments on: Will the last one out please turn off the lights</title>
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	<description>Real Estate, Economics, and Politics</description>
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		<title>By: pg</title>
		<link>http://njrereport.com/index.php/2010/02/04/will-the-last-one-out-please-turn-off-the-lights/#comment-365698</link>
		<dc:creator>pg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://njrereport.com/?p=5109#comment-365698</guid>
		<description>For anyone interested in the Princeton study here is the link:  http://www.princeton.edu/prior/PRIOReconomy-Final-%282%29.pdf

Here is the summary of that study:

&quot;This study provides an empirical analysis of recent migration into and out of New Jersey. We focus on the social and demographic characteristics of migrants in order to inform public policy. While New Jersey has much to do to ensure the future vitality of the state and its residents, the state’s ability to attract and retain a highly educated and highly compensated workforce remains strong.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For anyone interested in the Princeton study here is the link:  <a href="http://www.princeton.edu/prior/PRIOReconomy-Final-%282%29.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.princeton.edu/prior/PRIOReconomy-Final-%282%29.pdf</a></p>
<p>Here is the summary of that study:</p>
<p>&#8220;This study provides an empirical analysis of recent migration into and out of New Jersey. We focus on the social and demographic characteristics of migrants in order to inform public policy. While New Jersey has much to do to ensure the future vitality of the state and its residents, the state’s ability to attract and retain a highly educated and highly compensated workforce remains strong.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: pg</title>
		<link>http://njrereport.com/index.php/2010/02/04/will-the-last-one-out-please-turn-off-the-lights/#comment-365697</link>
		<dc:creator>pg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 02:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://njrereport.com/?p=5109#comment-365697</guid>
		<description>Roadtripboy,

Thank you for taking the time to respond in a reasoned way.  I think somewhere along the way, my argument was misconstrued.  The study you cite to does not support my argument.  I never said it did.  I said it cites two other studies that support my argument.  It contradicts the two previous studies by Rutgers and Princeton Universities.  

The study you cite is a study of wealth. The Princeton and Rutgers studies studies are of income, an important distinction.  

I agree wealth is leaving NJ.  It is inevitable because retirees, with a lifetime of savings, are retiring to places like florida and arizona.  No doubt.

My point is that the problem is overstated.  First, NJ taxes income not wealth, so the loss of wealth isn&#039;t that problematic for tax receipts.  The homes these retirees are leaving are being sold to new families who pay the property taxes still.  So clearly the new families do not have wealth, they have imcome.  They don&#039;t have a lifetime of savings to run to florida.  They are new families starting out with jobs, using the schools and paying taxes.

Although Id rather that &quot;wealth&quot; stay in NJ, this is not particularly troubling if you ask me.  It is troubling to charities, who commissioned the study because they rely on wealth instead of income.  But wealth is generally passive income invested in annuities, stocks and other investments and don&#039;t contribute to NJ&#039;s economy.  Income does contribute. 

I agree it is not ideal to have people leaving, but the study overstates the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roadtripboy,</p>
<p>Thank you for taking the time to respond in a reasoned way.  I think somewhere along the way, my argument was misconstrued.  The study you cite to does not support my argument.  I never said it did.  I said it cites two other studies that support my argument.  It contradicts the two previous studies by Rutgers and Princeton Universities.  </p>
<p>The study you cite is a study of wealth. The Princeton and Rutgers studies studies are of income, an important distinction.  </p>
<p>I agree wealth is leaving NJ.  It is inevitable because retirees, with a lifetime of savings, are retiring to places like florida and arizona.  No doubt.</p>
<p>My point is that the problem is overstated.  First, NJ taxes income not wealth, so the loss of wealth isn&#8217;t that problematic for tax receipts.  The homes these retirees are leaving are being sold to new families who pay the property taxes still.  So clearly the new families do not have wealth, they have imcome.  They don&#8217;t have a lifetime of savings to run to florida.  They are new families starting out with jobs, using the schools and paying taxes.</p>
<p>Although Id rather that &#8220;wealth&#8221; stay in NJ, this is not particularly troubling if you ask me.  It is troubling to charities, who commissioned the study because they rely on wealth instead of income.  But wealth is generally passive income invested in annuities, stocks and other investments and don&#8217;t contribute to NJ&#8217;s economy.  Income does contribute. </p>
<p>I agree it is not ideal to have people leaving, but the study overstates the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: RoadTripBoy</title>
		<link>http://njrereport.com/index.php/2010/02/04/will-the-last-one-out-please-turn-off-the-lights/#comment-365383</link>
		<dc:creator>RoadTripBoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 06:11:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://njrereport.com/?p=5109#comment-365383</guid>
		<description>Plg,

I&#039;m a long-time reader of this blog and pretty rare poster.  But this ongoing debate you&#039;re having with the board piqued my curiosity about your arguments and, even more so, about the sources you posted that supposedly support your arguments.  My curiosity about your source stemmed from several statements you&#039;ve made in prior posts that just didn&#039;t sit right with me.  But let&#039;s go over some things I found in your source:

&lt;strong&gt;Pg.8 Migration Based on CPS - Table 2&lt;/strong&gt;
&lt;em&gt;There has been a gradual general net migration of households from the
northeast to all other regions, particularly to the southern regions of the country. Wealth holders have followed this general pattern and the net wealth that has left the northeast has increased the wealth in all regions of the country, with a concentration in the south.

3. There has been an extensive net inflow of households to the northeast from abroad. Nearly a third of these households are headed by persons who were U.S. citizens when they arrived. The remaining two thirds were not citizens when they entered the United States. In the last 5 years there were more households migrating from Asia into the North East than from any other
continent, including Europe, and North America.&lt;/em&gt;  

Heck I could have told you this based on tennis and thai food. . .

&lt;strong&gt;Pg.8 Migration Based on ACS Data&lt;/strong&gt;
&lt;em&gt;&quot;&lt;strong&gt;In the past 5 years there has been net out flow of households
from New Jersey to all regions of the country with a concentration to the south. Wealth holders have followed the same pattern.&lt;/strong&gt; The net wealth that left New Jersey has resulted in modest increases in wealth in all other regions of the country again with a concentration in the south.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;Pg. 10 Reduction of Wealthy Households Moving To New Jersey&lt;/strong&gt; This heading says it all... The entire section is worth a read.

&lt;strong&gt;Pg. 10 Characteristics of Migrating Households ACS Data- Table 4&lt;/strong&gt;
&lt;em&gt;&quot;Table 4 contains social and economic characteristics of households migrating into and out of New Jersey based on data from the ACS for 2004 through 2008. . . &lt;strong&gt;Although their household income is higher, their wealth and the expected giving pattern is lower than the out-migrating households.&lt;/strong&gt;  Since a considerable fraction migrated from foreign countries the in-migrants are less likely to be citizens and less likely to have been born in New Jersey.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;Conclusion&lt;/strong&gt;
&lt;em&gt;&quot;Our analysis indicates that in recent years wealth has been leaving New Jersey in larger amounts than wealth has been entering the state due to household migration.&lt;/em&gt;

and here&#039;s the good part . . 

&lt;em&gt;&quot;Part of the change reflected a general increase in households moving out of the Northeast, including wealthy households. &lt;strong&gt;Comparisons with New York and Connecticut imply that the shift in New Jersey was larger and likely involved factors idiosyncratic to New
Jersey.&lt;/strong&gt; The pattern is clear and if the trend continues it will have a significant accumulative impact.&lt;/em&gt;

How does this study even remotely support your position?  This study supports what most of the regular posters have been saying for quite some time now.  

Sure our economic problems are larger than NJ.  But that doesn&#039;t mean that this state isn&#039;t throwing considerable water into an already burning oil fire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plg,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a long-time reader of this blog and pretty rare poster.  But this ongoing debate you&#8217;re having with the board piqued my curiosity about your arguments and, even more so, about the sources you posted that supposedly support your arguments.  My curiosity about your source stemmed from several statements you&#8217;ve made in prior posts that just didn&#8217;t sit right with me.  But let&#8217;s go over some things I found in your source:</p>
<p><strong>Pg.8 Migration Based on CPS &#8211; Table 2</strong><br />
<em>There has been a gradual general net migration of households from the<br />
northeast to all other regions, particularly to the southern regions of the country. Wealth holders have followed this general pattern and the net wealth that has left the northeast has increased the wealth in all regions of the country, with a concentration in the south.</p>
<p>3. There has been an extensive net inflow of households to the northeast from abroad. Nearly a third of these households are headed by persons who were U.S. citizens when they arrived. The remaining two thirds were not citizens when they entered the United States. In the last 5 years there were more households migrating from Asia into the North East than from any other<br />
continent, including Europe, and North America.</em>  </p>
<p>Heck I could have told you this based on tennis and thai food. . .</p>
<p><strong>Pg.8 Migration Based on ACS Data</strong><br />
<em>&#8220;<strong>In the past 5 years there has been net out flow of households<br />
from New Jersey to all regions of the country with a concentration to the south. Wealth holders have followed the same pattern.</strong> The net wealth that left New Jersey has resulted in modest increases in wealth in all other regions of the country again with a concentration in the south.&#8221;</em></p>
<p><strong>Pg. 10 Reduction of Wealthy Households Moving To New Jersey</strong> This heading says it all&#8230; The entire section is worth a read.</p>
<p><strong>Pg. 10 Characteristics of Migrating Households ACS Data- Table 4</strong><br />
<em>&#8220;Table 4 contains social and economic characteristics of households migrating into and out of New Jersey based on data from the ACS for 2004 through 2008. . . <strong>Although their household income is higher, their wealth and the expected giving pattern is lower than the out-migrating households.</strong>  Since a considerable fraction migrated from foreign countries the in-migrants are less likely to be citizens and less likely to have been born in New Jersey.</em></p>
<p><strong>Conclusion</strong><br />
<em>&#8220;Our analysis indicates that in recent years wealth has been leaving New Jersey in larger amounts than wealth has been entering the state due to household migration.</em></p>
<p>and here&#8217;s the good part . . </p>
<p><em>&#8220;Part of the change reflected a general increase in households moving out of the Northeast, including wealthy households. <strong>Comparisons with New York and Connecticut imply that the shift in New Jersey was larger and likely involved factors idiosyncratic to New<br />
Jersey.</strong> The pattern is clear and if the trend continues it will have a significant accumulative impact.</em></p>
<p>How does this study even remotely support your position?  This study supports what most of the regular posters have been saying for quite some time now.  </p>
<p>Sure our economic problems are larger than NJ.  But that doesn&#8217;t mean that this state isn&#8217;t throwing considerable water into an already burning oil fire.</p>
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		<title>By: NJGator</title>
		<link>http://njrereport.com/index.php/2010/02/04/will-the-last-one-out-please-turn-off-the-lights/#comment-365378</link>
		<dc:creator>NJGator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 04:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://njrereport.com/?p=5109#comment-365378</guid>
		<description>Montclair revises school admission criteria 

In the first major revision since the criteria were created more than three decades ago, the Board of Education has updated the admissions process for students attending its magnet public schools.

The move came in a unanimous vote during the board’s meeting this past Monday night and concluded more than 18 months of study and planning by a School Integration Task Force. Assisting the process has been the Kirwan Institute for the Study of Race and Ethnicity at the Ohio State University and pro bono legal review by the Skadden Arps law firm.

&quot;It’s the first major restructuring of the admissions criteria since the founding of the magnet schools some 30-plus years ago,&quot; said Schools Superintendent Frank Alvarez.

&quot;We hope the revisions will help us achieve a balance that will allow us to comply with the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision and still remain true to the spirit of Montclair’s original school desegregation plan that created our current magnet schools,&quot; said Alvarez, referring to a 2007 Supreme Court ruling.

This judicial decision bars public school districts from classifying students by the race of the individual child, but does permit schools to &quot;devise race-conscious measures to address the problem in a general way.&quot;

Under the plan adopted by the board, Montclair School District officials will phase out a child’s race as one of the five criteria utilized to determine to which public school Montclair elementary and middle school students will be assigned.

The district instead will divide Montclair into three separate geographic districts and select an equal number of students from each district for admission to each school. The plan is designed to give each school a mix of students of different racial and social economic backgrounds.

In addition to the new districts, district officials will continue to consider four existing criteria that include parental choice, sibling preferences, English as Second Language services and students requiring Special Education services in determining where students are assigned.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/83519152_Admissions_policy_revised.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Montclair revises school admission criteria </p>
<p>In the first major revision since the criteria were created more than three decades ago, the Board of Education has updated the admissions process for students attending its magnet public schools.</p>
<p>The move came in a unanimous vote during the board’s meeting this past Monday night and concluded more than 18 months of study and planning by a School Integration Task Force. Assisting the process has been the Kirwan Institute for the Study of Race and Ethnicity at the Ohio State University and pro bono legal review by the Skadden Arps law firm.</p>
<p>&#8220;It’s the first major restructuring of the admissions criteria since the founding of the magnet schools some 30-plus years ago,&#8221; said Schools Superintendent Frank Alvarez.</p>
<p>&#8220;We hope the revisions will help us achieve a balance that will allow us to comply with the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision and still remain true to the spirit of Montclair’s original school desegregation plan that created our current magnet schools,&#8221; said Alvarez, referring to a 2007 Supreme Court ruling.</p>
<p>This judicial decision bars public school districts from classifying students by the race of the individual child, but does permit schools to &#8220;devise race-conscious measures to address the problem in a general way.&#8221;</p>
<p>Under the plan adopted by the board, Montclair School District officials will phase out a child’s race as one of the five criteria utilized to determine to which public school Montclair elementary and middle school students will be assigned.</p>
<p>The district instead will divide Montclair into three separate geographic districts and select an equal number of students from each district for admission to each school. The plan is designed to give each school a mix of students of different racial and social economic backgrounds.</p>
<p>In addition to the new districts, district officials will continue to consider four existing criteria that include parental choice, sibling preferences, English as Second Language services and students requiring Special Education services in determining where students are assigned.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.northjersey.com/news/83519152_Admissions_policy_revised.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.northjersey.com/news/83519152_Admissions_policy_revised.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: NJGator</title>
		<link>http://njrereport.com/index.php/2010/02/04/will-the-last-one-out-please-turn-off-the-lights/#comment-365375</link>
		<dc:creator>NJGator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://njrereport.com/?p=5109#comment-365375</guid>
		<description>Shore 414 - I wonder if they will all go into the state insurance pool.  The state will be broke after the next hurricane season.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shore 414 &#8211; I wonder if they will all go into the state insurance pool.  The state will be broke after the next hurricane season.</p>
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		<title>By: scribe, The Princess of Paramus</title>
		<link>http://njrereport.com/index.php/2010/02/04/will-the-last-one-out-please-turn-off-the-lights/#comment-365374</link>
		<dc:creator>scribe, The Princess of Paramus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://njrereport.com/?p=5109#comment-365374</guid>
		<description>Gator,

Get a fixer upper and invite all of your blog friends over for a do-it-yourself &quot;extreme makeover.&quot; 

I can plaster, sand, and paint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gator,</p>
<p>Get a fixer upper and invite all of your blog friends over for a do-it-yourself &#8220;extreme makeover.&#8221; </p>
<p>I can plaster, sand, and paint.</p>
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		<title>By: Shore Guy</title>
		<link>http://njrereport.com/index.php/2010/02/04/will-the-last-one-out-please-turn-off-the-lights/#comment-365373</link>
		<dc:creator>Shore Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://njrereport.com/?p=5109#comment-365373</guid>
		<description>125m?  Egads!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>125m?  Egads!</p>
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		<title>By: NJGator</title>
		<link>http://njrereport.com/index.php/2010/02/04/will-the-last-one-out-please-turn-off-the-lights/#comment-365371</link>
		<dc:creator>NJGator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:37:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://njrereport.com/?p=5109#comment-365371</guid>
		<description>Shore 410 - Yup.  Heard they were going to cancel 125,000 policies in FL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shore 410 &#8211; Yup.  Heard they were going to cancel 125,000 policies in FL.</p>
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		<title>By: Shore Guy</title>
		<link>http://njrereport.com/index.php/2010/02/04/will-the-last-one-out-please-turn-off-the-lights/#comment-365370</link>
		<dc:creator>Shore Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://njrereport.com/?p=5109#comment-365370</guid>
		<description>Better watch out Clot.  First they target Americans overseas, next Branchburg:

http://www.alternet.org/world/145543/top_intel_officer%3A_u.s._may_kill_americans_abroad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Better watch out Clot.  First they target Americans overseas, next Branchburg:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.alternet.org/world/145543/top_intel_officer%3A_u.s._may_kill_americans_abroad" rel="nofollow">http://www.alternet.org/world/145543/top_intel_officer%3A_u.s._may_kill_americans_abroad</a></p>
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		<title>By: Shore Guy</title>
		<link>http://njrereport.com/index.php/2010/02/04/will-the-last-one-out-please-turn-off-the-lights/#comment-365368</link>
		<dc:creator>Shore Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://njrereport.com/?p=5109#comment-365368</guid>
		<description>Via ASCAP:


http://www.alternet.org/rights/145485/5_ways_techno-gadgetry_is_bringing_out_the_worst_in_humanity</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Via ASCAP:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.alternet.org/rights/145485/5_ways_techno-gadgetry_is_bringing_out_the_worst_in_humanity" rel="nofollow">http://www.alternet.org/rights/145485/5_ways_techno-gadgetry_is_bringing_out_the_worst_in_humanity</a></p>
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		<title>By: Shore Guy</title>
		<link>http://njrereport.com/index.php/2010/02/04/will-the-last-one-out-please-turn-off-the-lights/#comment-365367</link>
		<dc:creator>Shore Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://njrereport.com/?p=5109#comment-365367</guid>
		<description>Has anyone heard about State Farm Insurance saying that it would stop writing Florida homeowners insurance after the Florida Insurance commissioner rejected the rate increase of 47.1% for State Farm homeowners insurance in Florida?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone heard about State Farm Insurance saying that it would stop writing Florida homeowners insurance after the Florida Insurance commissioner rejected the rate increase of 47.1% for State Farm homeowners insurance in Florida?</p>
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		<title>By: BC Bob</title>
		<link>http://njrereport.com/index.php/2010/02/04/will-the-last-one-out-please-turn-off-the-lights/#comment-365366</link>
		<dc:creator>BC Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://njrereport.com/?p=5109#comment-365366</guid>
		<description>Ben [398},

I agree. I was pointing out short term technical zones.

Technicals are short term, fundamentals are long term, insurance is never day to day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben [398},</p>
<p>I agree. I was pointing out short term technical zones.</p>
<p>Technicals are short term, fundamentals are long term, insurance is never day to day.</p>
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		<title>By: safeashouses</title>
		<link>http://njrereport.com/index.php/2010/02/04/will-the-last-one-out-please-turn-off-the-lights/#comment-365365</link>
		<dc:creator>safeashouses</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 02:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://njrereport.com/?p=5109#comment-365365</guid>
		<description>#407 Clot,

I have an idea.  NSFW

http://www.chinasmack.com/stories/shanghai-man-survives-suicide-jump-blowup-sex-doll/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#407 Clot,</p>
<p>I have an idea.  NSFW</p>
<p><a href="http://www.chinasmack.com/stories/shanghai-man-survives-suicide-jump-blowup-sex-doll/" rel="nofollow">http://www.chinasmack.com/stories/shanghai-man-survives-suicide-jump-blowup-sex-doll/</a></p>
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		<title>By: The Condition-Code Red</title>
		<link>http://njrereport.com/index.php/2010/02/04/will-the-last-one-out-please-turn-off-the-lights/#comment-365364</link>
		<dc:creator>The Condition-Code Red</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 02:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://njrereport.com/?p=5109#comment-365364</guid>
		<description>Hyde (399)-

If that&#039;s true, then how did Frank happen?

&quot;Someone cant get pregnant if you stick to the dirt road…&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hyde (399)-</p>
<p>If that&#8217;s true, then how did Frank happen?</p>
<p>&#8220;Someone cant get pregnant if you stick to the dirt road…&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Al "The Thermostat" Gore</title>
		<link>http://njrereport.com/index.php/2010/02/04/will-the-last-one-out-please-turn-off-the-lights/#comment-365363</link>
		<dc:creator>Al "The Thermostat" Gore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 02:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://njrereport.com/?p=5109#comment-365363</guid>
		<description>Teacher pension fund lost $9 billion last year while costs rose
by Kim Gittleson 

In Albany this week, UFT President Michael Mulgrew floated a plan to save the city money by letting teachers retire earlier. But a new report on the health of the city’s teachers pension fund suggests that Mulgrew’s proposal would only compound the fund’s potentially crippling budget crunch.

Take the pain Disneyland losers.  I love it when the clown shoe knocks out a government tit sucker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teacher pension fund lost $9 billion last year while costs rose<br />
by Kim Gittleson </p>
<p>In Albany this week, UFT President Michael Mulgrew floated a plan to save the city money by letting teachers retire earlier. But a new report on the health of the city’s teachers pension fund suggests that Mulgrew’s proposal would only compound the fund’s potentially crippling budget crunch.</p>
<p>Take the pain Disneyland losers.  I love it when the clown shoe knocks out a government tit sucker.</p>
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