More on the (still misguided, and even less affordable) NJ Homebuyer Credit

From the Record:

Bill would create N.J. homebuyer tax credit

In an effort to boost the state’s housing market, New Jersey legislators have introduced a bill that would give home buyers an income tax credit of up to $15,000, spread over three years.

“The housing industry is at an all-time low,” said Sen. Paul Sarlo, a Wood-Ridge Democrat and a co-sponsor of the bill. “The economic output that will be generated from these homes being built will be quite significant and will really help to stimulate the economy.”

The home-building industry has been slammed by the housing downturn. In New Jersey, fewer than 12,000 new housing units were built in 2009 — the lowest number since World War II. As a result, unemployment has soared among construction workers.

The bill would target new construction, with 75 percent of the tax credits going to buyers of newly built homes and 25 percent going to buyers of existing homes. Existing home sales make up the large majority of home sales.

If passed, the tax credit would cost the state Treasury $100 million over three years, at a time when New Jersey is in dire financial straits. But Sarlo said the economic stimulus would more than make up for those lost revenues.

Because the tax credit’s cost is capped at $100 million, a total of 6,667 buyers would be able to claim the credit — 5,000 of them new-home buyers. The credits would be available on a first come, first served basis.

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477 Responses to More on the (still misguided, and even less affordable) NJ Homebuyer Credit

  1. grim says:

    While we’re on the topic of spending money we don’t have…

    From the APP:

    Should taxpayers pay $300M for casino in Atlantic City?

    Fresh from using $10 billion in federal bailout money to save itself, Morgan Stanley is now gambling that its investment in a 1,900-room casino-hotel on Atlantic City’s boardwalk will hit another type of jackpot.

    The financial services company, which has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in the project, is betting that state leaders will grant it $300 million in tax breaks to help finish the partially built casino.

    “I’m struggling to pay my taxes, and we’re giving Morgan Stanley $300 million to build a casino,” said Bob McDevitt, president of Unite Here Local 54, the largest casino employees union in the city. “Why should the people of New Jersey finance this project?”

  2. Jim says:


  3. Jim says:

    I’m calling that as a tie! After all, Grim owns this site.

  4. freedy says:

    whats the word to describe Morgan ?


  5. newbie says:

    i posted this yesterday. i am a long time lurker. post occasionally. if grim or anyone can help. it will be appreciated.

    I saw this MLS#2750500 today in open house in Edison. It was OK. It is a 4br 2.5bth colonial. Asking $769,900. Bit pricey. What surprised me was that the house was bought 2 months back. Listing agent said the owner was shifting overseas due to job. Sounds a little fishy.
    Just wanted to know, if any body can give me a price history on this. I can’t any data from public sites. All point to a 2001 price.
    Any help is appreciated. Any body wants to chime in is also welcome.

  6. Final Doom says:

    newbie (5)-

    You pay 700K+ for anything other than an office building or a house of worship in Edison, you deserve whatever you get.

  7. Final Doom says:

    Guess I can’t learn how to drive big rigs on the gubmint dime:

    “For more than a decade, that loan-default rate was in decline because the federal government toughened penalties for schools with high shares of defaults. Now, the rate is increasing again and not just because of the economy.

    The problem is particularly acute in Arizona, which has the nation’s highest overall default rate on federal student loans: 9.8 percent in fiscal year 2007, the latest figures available.

    But more than default rates, it is the high levels of debt that are provoking alarm among consumer advocates. That has heightened scrutiny of for-profit schools.”

  8. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:


    Try This site Put in county, then town, then address


  9. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    I’m halfway through “Atlas Shrugged” and it’s like a “holyf*ckingshit” analogy of today — only written over fifty years ago…


  10. Final Doom says:

    Mish, on fire. Same article as #7:

    “What “Berzerkley” or a state or private university confers on the vast majority of students is a “credential” and “legitimacy” within the existing division of labor and state tax farm. Their “education” is mostly in terms of being conditioned to conform to the costly state superstructure, including submitting to tax, wage, and debt servitude for life.

    What they will “learn” in terms of actual occupational skills, self-reliance, and productive wealth creation they could learn at a much lower cost (and higher return to them) than 4+ years of university “education” by actually doing something productive, paid or not, as a youth.

    Rioting for more government largess extracted eventually from their meager paychecks in the future is suicide and merely sustains for a while longer the system they perceive themselves to be opposing or attempting to reform.”

  11. Final Doom says:

    sl (9)-

    Read Love in the Ruins at the same time. Mind-blowing.

  12. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Doom, I can only handle so much depression at one time…

    recall: I am still trying to find a suitable domicile for my family… and at the same time fighting the urge to go “off the grid” despite knowing it’d be near impossible given my line of work….


  13. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Doom, 11

    The politics in “Atlas Shrugged” are mirroring today’s business environment in many ways — though I haven’t seen ‘bailouts for the banks’ as yet — but I’ve got another 500+ pages to go…

    The soci*lism aspect is just soul/spirit crushing…

    I love how Rearden’s brother is such a typical tit-sucker. Worse is how their mom wants Rearden to give the brother a fluff job so he feels like he has some worth…


  14. yo'me says:

    Program to pay homeowners to sell at a loss
    Obama administration’s latest attempt to stem the housing crisis

  15. Final Doom says:

    Looks like Mrs. Watanabe is back.

    “I’m hearing from my buddies in Japan that while things are already quite bad in that enchanting country, they are about to get a whole lot worse, and that it is time to start scaling into a major short in the yen.

    Australia and China have already raised interest rates, to be followed by the US, and eventually Europe. With its economy enfeebled, the prospects of Japan raising rates substantially are close to nil, meaning the yield spread between the yen and other currencies is about to widen big time. In the case of the Australian dollar, that works out to 4% per annum. Leverage up ten to one, and pile on anticipated capital gains brought in by a weakening yen, and you have a real carry trade on your hands. That will generate hundreds of billions of dollars worth of cascading yen selling as hedge funds dog pile in. It’s macro investing at its finest.”

  16. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Newbie 5 Run don’t walk away from that house at that price. I don’t even need to know that much about the market in that town to know you are getting screwed. If you have not been reading a lot about housing start. Keep reading here & do some on your own. Things get off the topic here because it has already been beaten to death. You can get a nice home in a better town if you have that much to spend. The lemmings are buying now the smart money is still on the sidelines. There are deals to be had but just from your post you are not informed enough to go shopping yet. No offense meant you came here that was good now start your reading in few months you maybe ready to some low-balling.

  17. Yikes says:

    clot, how stoked are you that gossip girl is back on tonight? great show.

    and the weather is getting warmed … ah, july can’t get here soon enough.

  18. Final Doom says:

    GG will have to really pull out the stops to top last year’s 0rgy and the Sonic Youth appearance.

    This is a show that should go to HBO or Showtime and just become all about sex. I bet every actress on it would take off her clothes.

    Sooner or later, they will have to, as GG (while being a guilty pleasure for lots of viewers) is a guaranteed career-killer.

  19. veto that says:

    “Under the new federal program, a lender will use real estate agents to determine the value of a home and thus the minimum to accept. This figure will not be shared with the owner, but if an offer comes in that is equal to or higher than this amount, the lender must take it.”

    Somehow i find it difficult to get excited about any fed program, especially one where real estate agents are setting values.

  20. Mocha says:

    16. Well said.

  21. safeashouses says:

    This weekend I walked from 60th and 5th, down to 50th, cut over to Broadway, and walked to 32nd and Broadway. I walked past only 1 or 2 closed stores. Lots of crowds, many people carrying multiple shopping bags. I kept wondering where is the recession?

  22. Final Doom says:

    veto (19)-

    Don’t worry. Only Mr. Market determines value. If the agents’ asking prices aren’t right, the sales won’t happen.

  23. Anon E. Moose says:


    Agree. Used house salesmen essentially set the prices during the Great Housing Explosion by controlling who got referrals for mortgage, inspection, and appraisal (those who can’t ‘hit the number’ need not apply). Whocoodanode?

  24. Final Doom says:

    moose (23)-

    Sorry to see the weekend didn’t fix the case of stupid you’ve got.

  25. Painhrtz says:

    Safe tourists always shop

  26. Anon E. Moose says:

    Re [19] (con’t);

    New cottage industry – starving ramen-eater sells supposedly ‘confidential’ BPO to the bagholder so he can find out how screwed he is.

  27. Final Doom says:

    Hey moose- I spend all day, every day feeding crap sandwiches to banks and telling them to learn to love it.

    Sit on that and rotate.

  28. Final Doom says:

    moose (26)-

    Jerkoff, once the borrower is underwater, he could give a rat’s ass about the BPO value. The only thing he cares about is keeping the place clean and allowing access, so he can get the cash-for-keys.

  29. Pain/Safe:

    Commuted into the city twice this week. The abundance of tourists on the 1 train as I slogged down to Houston is way up. Especially this past Friday when I got in around 11am. The tourists are quite easy to spot. The men where too-tight jeans and funny colored sneakers. They also stare at pocket-folded transit maps the entire time they are underground. Can someone please educate the German tourists on the nifty invention known as deodorant. Some mornings they give the homeless a run for their money.

  30. NJGator says:

    Clot – Today’s the day we register Lil Gator with the Proletariot. Should Stu crack out his kufi hat for the first time since he dressed as Farrakhan for Halloween?

    BTW – I saved this for your reading pleasure this morning. Enjoy!

  31. Where = wear.

    I had a late night hockey game yesterday. Some 6’5 moron plowed me after I scored on a rebound goal. He received a 4-minute penalty. I received messed up ligaments in my right ankle. I might be manning the fireplace up at Windham this weekend instead of skiing. We’ll see.

  32. Final Doom says:

    gator (30)-

    Thanks; I love reports that look like bad Powerpoint shows. If they had dumbed that piece of crap down any more, it’d be a coloring book.

    Congratulations to you and Stu on becoming black. I definitely think it’s a good idea for you guys to convince TPTB that you are also members of the Nation of Islam. The sekretariat will quake in their boots in fear of your retaliation should they not play ball on your school choice.

  33. Final Doom says:

    Just show up with Little Gator and mutter “white devils” a lot. Things will go your way.

  34. Final Doom says:

    Stu (31)-

    Nothing like a black guy who plays hockey.

  35. NJGator says:

    Clot 32 – I just hope Stu saved the handkerchief with the mongrammed “F” on it. Would hate to have to stop off at Sears on the way to the Central Office tonight.

  36. FD:

    I iced it from 11 to 12:30 last night and it feels twice as bad this morning. Ugh!

  37. Painhrtz says:

    Stu for the record my in laws wear deodorant but they have been in the state for over 40 years.

    I was going to play yesterday in a pick up game with some buddies but I have a fracture in my foot thanks to falling in the snow so I thought better of it. Sucks about your ankle, If I was on your team he would have been missing teeth

  38. Final Doom says:

    Stu (36)-

    Time for the vic0din.

  39. Commanderbobnj says:

    Re: Ayn Rand, “Atlas Shrugged.”
    It is interesting that Ayn and her book have come up on this blog. I seem to remember that I had some copies of THE OBJECTIVIST, which was a monthly Ayn Rand newsletter of twenty-or-so pages published during the mid 1960’s in my book collection.
    …I just now found them and I am looking at two full years contained in two attractive green binders: 1966 and 1968. The issues were edited and mostly written by Rand and by one of her followers, Nathaniel Branden. Another writer/fan was ‘THE’ Alan Greenspan who wrote in the July 1966 issue a piece titled: “GOLD and ECONOMIC FREEDOM” –This one I must make some time to read through..
    One more observation: On the inner back cover of the Dec.1967 issue is an ad for “Atlas Shrugged-Special Tenth Anniversary Edition”; 2,000 numbered copies autographed by Ayn Rand—-The cost– $ 10.00 ! If I only knew then what I know now !!!

    If anyone is interested in seeing the above, I will bring them to the next GTD.


  40. Final Doom says:

    NJ RE Report, Antiques Roadshow and Collectible Book Club.

  41. Commanderbobnj says:

    Sorry, Correction: it’s GTG not GTD

  42. Anon E. Moose says:


    No chance the bagholder has a straw buyer in mind who needs to know how high to bid? It could easily turn into a home-loaner’s DIY principal reduction mortgage mod. Maybe shiny-shoes-GED (that’d be the sales flack) goes to the bagholder on the front end before s/he sets the price to arrange such a transaction.

    We could spend all day spitballing ways that the fine upstanding member of the guild could screw all involved to line their own pockets. You simply have to accept the well-demonstrated premise that the sales person’s interests are not aligned with the people they purport to represent in the transaction, and that sales person will look out for themselves to the exclusion of all others.

    The rest is just details.

    542.Final Doom says:
    March 7, 2010 at 11:28 pm
    Anybody got a diagram for how to build a bomb to kill everything?

    Thanks to all in advance,


    SRI-ously, miss you meds again?

  43. Final Doom says:

    bob (39)

    Very cool. Would love to see what that butt-kissing sycophant, AG, wrote.

  44. Commanderbobnj says:

    Final Doom says:
    March 8, 2010 at 9:12 am
    NJ RE Report, Antiques Roadshow and Collectible Book Club.

    LOL, “Doom” Yes, It could very be !!


  45. leftwing says:

    Clot re: student loans at 7

    I don’t see what the issue is regarding the student loan defaults. Why would these kids riot? They are getting a first class education that will prepare them better than any of their peers for future success:

    “B-b-b-but, you mean I should have researched what I was buying and not relied on the seller’s representations that it was valuable? He knows his product better than I do.”

    “B-b-b-but, you mean I should have understood the ramifications of borrowing the money I did? The lender knows more than I do.”

    “B-b-b-but the government made the money available to borrow. It’s their fault.”

    “B-b-b-but, the late night television and the realtor TOLD me everything would be OK. It’s their fault.”

    “Let’s scream loud enough and blame everyone else until someone assumes our responsibility.”

    C’mon, it took our generation decades of real life training to learn these maxims and throw personal responsibility out the window. These kids are learning it in college with their loans serving as the best interniship possible. I mean, they should be paying even MORE for these valuable, real life lessons. Isn’t training for future success part of the college experience?

    And think, another topical problem is solved as well. Today’s financial incompetents will have bright future employment prospects teaching in these institutions based on their experiences. Freedy has already completed his post graduate studies. I heard he has a sold out, 101 level lecture “Shame or Blame in the 21st Century: I can’t balance my checkbook.”

  46. Final Doom says:

    moose (42)-

    Try to pull off a straw man deal under these guidelines (or even the current guidelines). Only thing you will get out of this is your butt stretched. Which, I guess you might enjoy.

    Any number that is generated by a bank’s internal BPO is too high to snag a straw buyer, anyway. The way these deals happen is for the borrower & straw man to convince the banks the house is worth far less than their internal numbers indicate. They do this by submitting false comps or raising doubts about the physical condition of the house.
    Very often, the straw man ends up buying the note, rather than buying the house via short sale.

    I’ve already walked away from one business relationship in which I caught a financial advisor attempting the above (on his own house, no less), and I refused to work with another.

    So, jerkweed, I may be crazy, but I’m not dishonest. And, frankly, most people in RE who are dishonest enough to try this stuff aren’t smart enough to pull it off.

  47. Painhrtz says:

    Left I went to college for the drugs and chicks, the education was secondary at least it was after I dropped from pre-med

  48. sas says:

    Oscars? who cares, and who watches? its boring.

    for me, the best recent movies don’t come from Hollywood.
    I like the independent flicks & foreign.

    Last good hollywood movie had errol flynn, and I like Heston.


  49. Painhrtz says:

    SAS Omega Man Soylent Green?

  50. Final Doom says:

    left (45)-

    Har! Although it does seem to me that learning the art of strategic default is something everyone should have in their college experience.

    I bet at some point, O and his crew will make student debt dischargeable in BK.

  51. Could you imagine trying to teach a personal finance course today?

    Oh the moral hazard in it all.

  52. Happy Daze says:

    Just for laughs:
    from time to time this guy starts a message thread repeating his prior posts and adding a little more,
    he seems to have some sort of fixation against renters.

  53. Happy Daze says:

    49 Painthrtz

    Don’t forget Planet of the Apes!

  54. Final Doom says:

    daze (52)-

    All those posts are Bob Toll.

  55. Painhrtz says:

    Daze I don’t like monkeys nor Damn dirty Apes. Never could get past my dislike for non-human primates to like the Apes movies.

  56. 3b says:

    #52 Wow!! Talk about delusional/denial!!

  57. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    I love irony. Morpheus, you can relate.

    Found a marked up memo on my desk from the mysogynistic sociopath I work for (he works every weekend because he literally has no other life—I am not making this up). In the margins, he inserted snide comments of “don’t you proofread?”

    Ironically, I was updating a memo he had written. I was fixing all his old mistakes, and and I missed two (in a 20 page memo).

  58. Anon E. Moose says:

    Democratic Jobs Plan: We’ll Need More Bus Drivers

    Seeing as how many of their own are getting thrown under the bus lately (Gov. Patterson, Rep. Massa, to name a few from NY alone), this must be the Democrats’ plan to reverse unemployment.

  59. Comrade Nom Deplume says:


    “I bet at some point, O and his crew will make student debt dischargeable in BK.”

    That would be more ironic than my prior post, as Obama and the Dems want to take the student loan business away from the banks and bring it “in house.”

    Hell, I’d go get another degree, just so I could kill the loans and my CC debt.

  60. john says:

    Defaulting on student loans is 100% students fault. First of all broke people like myself went to school on full financial aid. To get a loan indicates you have money, cuase if you didn’t you be on financial aid.

    Secondly, college’s sold purpose orginally was to get a job. When student loans first started and before govt backed them you went to your local community bank, Dad co-signed and if you took a loan for a major the bank felt would get you a job that could pay back loan they gave it to you. Accounting, Law, Pharmacey, Medical School, Engineering etc.

    History, Sociology, PolySci, Fine Arts etc. Bank would say no way as they knew damm well you can’t pay back student loans with a fine arts degree.

    If a student whose parents have some money gets a degree in Civil War history that is worthless and owes 100K in student loans then a good lesson in history is pay it back like in the old days or go to debtors prision and break rocks for ten years.

  61. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [57] redux

    Not to mention the “and and” above.

    But I don’t care what you all think of my proofreading.

  62. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [60] John

    My favorite was all the “art history” majors at MHC.

    You could be assured that none of them were there on scholarship or student loans.

    Heck, they weren’t even there for the degree. Just the rock.

  63. john says:

    Even better is FIT where midwestern Dads send their 18 year old boys to get Aids and they pay for it.

  64. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [63] john

    Remind me never to race you to the gutter. I will lose every time.

  65. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    How long before the Snark-In-Chief, Robert Gibbs, takes this guy to task?

    “The true unemployment rate in the United States is actually higher than we think — at 11.5 percent, said Stephen Roach, Asia chairman of Morgan Stanley.

    “The (official) unemployment rate at 9.7 percent is distorted downwards by at least 3 million people who have simply given up looking for work and who have effectively taken themselves out of the work force for economic reasons,” Roach said on CNBC.

    “For some bizarre reason, the U.S. statisticians do not count these poor souls as unemployed. If you add them back in, the unemployment rate isn’t 9.7 percent. It’s 11.5 percent,” he said. . . .

    Roach, however, cautioned that hiring may not come that quickly as businesses are still nervous about demand prospects.

    “The idea that we can get some spontaneous revival in employment and capex when the consumer is under serious trouble, to me, is really missing a key analytical point to take away from this tough post-crisis climate.” . . .


  66. john says:

    I took Art History as an elective once at Stony Brook, we had this hippie frizzy haired dikey women and lots of chicks who wore no make up and believe their favorite animal was the hairless beaver. Anyhow rumor was hippie spaced out teach sat at front of room just pushing forward slides one by one and all you did was identify painters, style and period she never left her chair so you just kept your book open on floor and got easy A. Don’t know what you do with that but man the rich lesiban jewish and black girls in class really need to shave their legs. That curly stuff needs to be cut off before it reaches mid thigh. But tell you what the other girls were very exfoliated from going down on those curly q’s and wasn’t a pimple in the class.

  67. john says:

    Actually Edger Allen Poe beat me in the race to the gutter.

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    March 8, 2010 at 10:26 am
    [63] john

    Remind me never to race you to the gutter. I will lose every time.

  68. Yikes says:

    think we’ve talked about this before, but people are doing the the roth conversion, right?

    i seem to recall people (Stu? Chi Fi?) saying on here if you had the cash, it was the smart move.

    we’re in a weird scenario – we’ve made real good money the last few years but there is no shot this will continue (wife plans to stay home; i got lucky, plain and simple). so would it still apply to us, since our income almost certainly will be DOWN later in life?

  69. sas says:

    yes. i liked Soylent green & planet of apes.


  70. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [66] john

    Classic john. Did you get the A? (of course you did, and you probably converted the best looking one into a has-bian while you were there).

    I had two not so open but not hard to figure out les-bian professors. They were my absolute favorites.

  71. sas says:

    but the news programs can’t get enough of the Oscars.
    anything to keep you sedated and not realize your being fleeced.

    go back to who wore what..


  72. sas says:

    Obama effect?

    ha ha ha…
    what a bunch of saps.


  73. Painhrtz says:

    SAS scary part of the Oscars,
    A. didn’t know the Hollywood felatio contest was even on.
    B. Wife and I didn’t even realize there was no ABC until her sheep friends started calling and asking us how we were going to watch the Oscars.

    My wife’s response Why would I want to watch the Oscars? Holding the Phone and asking me Did you know we did not have channel 7?

    I am constantly reminded through interactions with her friends of peoples ignorance and the reasons I married my wife

  74. newbie says:

    #16 & #20

    Nope. I was not planning on bidding asking price of $769,900. I was thinking of using 2001 price $423,000 and use a 3% inflation that gets you mid 500s.

    I was more curious about the last trade price.

  75. scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:


    you’re not here on the weekends so you missed my question

    if you’re over/under on good vs bad girl is 10 …

    what’s your over/under on good vs bad boy?

    what’s “a lot” as in “too many” in the context of guys?

  76. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [68] yikes

    Possibly not. The questions you should ask are:

    Will that cash will be taxed more or less heavily in retirement than you are now? Hard to say, but for some, the answer will be yes.

    Will you actually make any money with it? Problem with a Roth is that, unless you make decent money with it over the years, it is a losing proposition on a present value basis.

    Are you able to minimize the tax hit over 2010 and 2011? If so, that makes it more palatable, but if not, you are paying tax on max rates now.

    One thing to consider is that some practitioners say it isn’t required that you do it in 2010. Rather, that is the earliest you can do it. Still, it is possible that Congress takes this away after getting the tax bump from conversions.

    Also, there is the eventual means-testing that will result in the future for social security and other benefits. Thus, it would seem that cashing out Roths, 401ks and IRAs prior to whenever the means testing kicks in may make sense if your income is down—you get that money “out of your name” so to speak, but this is only viable if your tax bracket stays low. And you would have to essentially put that money beyond the reach (and the view) of both creditors and the USG. Trusts are best for this if structured correctly, and don’t even have to be offshore.

  77. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [73] pain

    Good woman, she.

    Mine had no interest in the Oscars either.

    I never watch these award shows. A mutual admiration society event, with all the rationality and relevance of syncro swimming, and judged just as arbitrarily.

  78. Yikes,

    On the ROTH conversion tip. There are so many factors at play here that a lot of research is necessary to make the decision. The most worrying, in my opinion, is that the government could change the tax status of ROTHs sometime in the distant future.

    I had converted much of mine over in past years and decided to leave the last chunk in a traditional so I am diversified against future increased earnings in retirement and future tax law changes in regards to IRAs.

    If you have a huge amount you are considering, then I would find a real good professional to help you make the best choice.

    There are many good articles out there on the topic, so get Googling.

  79. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [31] stu

    I thought yours was a no-hitting league?

    Maybe now I will consider joining. What fun is hockey if you can’t hit someone?

  80. newbie says:

    bTW, the website for tax records is as of 04/30/2009, so last 6 month data will not be there.
    But that is a nifty site. Will be very useful.

  81. Nom,

    It is no hitting, but plenty of it still occurs. That’s what the penalty box is for. Eventually the dude who ran me was ejected after pulling the same antics against a teammate at the start of the third. It’s a shame, as I would have gladly retaliated if given the opportunity to. Instead, I ended up with another assist.

  82. Comrade Nom Deplume says:


    If they change the tax status of Roths in the future (actually, to eliminate them, which is all they can do), then Yikes is not really worse off except that he pays tax now instead of the future (assuming rates remain the same).

    For my part, I don’t intend to cash out any former 401(k) money for conversions if I can avoid it. I have been funding IRAs with nondeductible deposits for the past few years. These will get rolled over with only a minimal tax effect.

  83. Nom,


    I also have been funding IRAs with nondeductible deposits for at least the past 5 years. We plan to use these contributions to pay for our 4-year olds plumbing school degree.

  84. Happy Daze says:

    Someone might have posted this on the weekend, but here it is anyway.

    From Forbes:
    Soaring Mortgage Defaults May Kill the Housing Recovery

    “March is usually the month when people in the real estate business start getting hopeful. Spring usually brings out both buyers and sellers and, along with them, higher values for most homes.

    But for some of the biggest housing markets in the country, those hopes look to be in vain this year. The problem is the glut of homes that have been repossessed by banks or that seem headed in that direction. The glut is far bigger than it was a year ago.

    In fact the outlook is flat-out grim.”

    “The number of homeowners who haven’t quite sunk into the foreclosure swamp–but are in serious danger of doing so–is also way up from 2009. First American CoreLogic tracks mortgages that are at least 90 days delinquent. (They include mortgages already in foreclosure or converted to REO.) One in 14 mortgages in the U.S. now meets this standard, up from one in 22 a year ago.”

    “But the other metro areas on the list of places where at least 10% of mortgages are delinquent, in foreclosure or converted to REO include some big names that may surprise you: Chicago, Los Angeles and the towns and cities of Nassau and Suffolk counties on New York’s Long Island.”

    In the linked article, “In Depth: The 14 Most Troubled Real Estate Markets”, the only NJ area to make it was Atlantic City at #11.
    Miami was #1 and “The Rest of Florida” was #2.

  85. “flat-out grim”


  86. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [530][prior thread] PGC

    “At the end of the day, are they are your clients. They belong to the firm and I assume the partner has them in the book of business.”

    I was going to reply to that, but I am at work. Suffice it to say, their actions may cost them some business from a client, and has cost them future business from my spouse’s company, and any company that spouse or her colleagues go to in the future.

  87. Final Doom says:

    newb (74)-

    You’re wasting everyone’s time, including your own.

  88. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [83] stu

    Judging by what I just paid a plumber to fix my boiler, that is a smart move.

  89. Final Doom says:

    stu (83)-

    Wow. A black plumber. Excellent niche marketing.

    Your kid is gonna stack the cheese, baby!

  90. Final Doom says:

    O now speaking to another hand-picked group of sycophants.

  91. FD,

    No lying. We once hired a plumber in Montclair who drives a Lamborghini. He, of course keeps his hands clean. He subcontracts out the work to his apprentices and simply drives around to each worksite to make sure everyone is doing the work right. I envy that guy. His underlings are all fantastic as they strive for a Countach of their own.

    All I know, is that when I add up all of the times I had to call a plumber, the rate was close to $100 per hour (mostly off the books for sure). I got smart and invested in a snake of my own. Called a plumber once in the last three years and that was to install a new water heater. I worked out a deal with the installer and saved a ton.


  93. reinvestor101 says:

    >>>”You know,” Delay said, “there is an argument to be made that these extensions, the unemployment benefits keeps people from going and finding jobs. In fact there are some studies that have been done that show people stay on unemployment compensation and they don’t look for a job until two or three weeks before they know the benefits are going to run out. <<<<

    Damn liberal rag is trying to snuff out the truth. Bunning was doing the right damn thing to cut down Obama’s creeping socialism. YOU CAN’T HAVE EVERYONE TRYING TO LIVE OFF THE DAMN GOVERNMENT and Delay is right, some of these people don’t want a damn job. LET THEM EAT CAKE DAMMIT. There shouldn’t be any more damn extensions of unemployment.

    We need folks like Delay and Bunning to stay in the damn government and fight the damn liberal socialist scourge that’s trying to jam all this damn crap down our damn throats.

  94. john says:

    No man should ever marry if he slept with less than ten women. That is the minimun to know when a women is good in bed and bare minimun to learn the moves.Plus any guy who slept with less than ten women will cheat on his wife or divorce her eventually.

    Good guy status is most likly between 10 and 20 women. Once you break 20 women and you are under 30, you are most likely a dog, serial dater, have low standards or are sleeping wtih hos. If you are doing it with gfs, it could take a few months to get a good one you hold on to her a few months and repeat.

    I say a lot starts around 50. I have a friend who broke 200 before he married. But to do that he basically was sleeping around 16 to 40 and rarely went out with a girl once he slept with her. Also rarely ever went on a second date if it did not look this would take at most 2-3 dates. He cut bait early and moved on. That and he had at least 4 circle of friends so he moved between circles so not to get all the girls made at him. He also was willing to try to hook up in the middle of the afternoon or whenever.

    I am happy I stopped when I did. Only because when I take my kids on errands there are already several routes I have to avoid already to avoid driving by ex’s houses. If I kept it up I could only drive on highways.

    What is your max number partners girls and guys to be still considered good marriage material?

    Guys still think about it, my brother once dated a girl who slipped and said she did only slept with two ex-boyfriends but she gave BJs, my brother remembers she dated ten guys and said I could never kiss those lips at the alter cuase all I could think of was those lips on ten guys.

    scribe, The Princess of Paramus says:
    March 8, 2010 at 10:51 am

    you’re not here on the weekends so you missed my question

    if you’re over/under on good vs bad girl is 10 …

    what’s your over/under on good vs bad boy?

    what’s “a lot” as in “too many” in the context of guys?

  95. Qwerty says:

    Some light reading for this bunch?

    “The Ultimate Suburban Survivalist Guide”

  96. PGC says:

    Great article. I think there are a few funnel jobs in here at times.

  97. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [96] qwerty

    Those books were all the rage in the late 70’s, the early 80’s, the early 90’s, . . .

  98. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [95] john

    I’d respond, but then you’d start calling me names.

    Your post about driving reminds me that when we named our daughters, there were two rules of what we could not use; one rule was no ex-girlfriend names. Not hard to do, but every now and then, the wife would pick a name and I’d ding it for what she described as “no apparent reason.”

    Finally, she said “just avoid the ones I knew about.” I replied “there are a lot more than that I want to avoid.”

  99. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [97] pgc

    had to read it to understand what you meant.

    So, how far down the funnel am I?

  100. Sastry says:

    #99 Player Nom?

  101. NJGator says:

    Clot 89 – And he’s gonna get all the municipal contracts for Montclair that way.

  102. Juice Box Sean says:

    re: #95 – John – re: “Once you break 20 women and you are under 30, you are most likely a dog.”

    John many a guy I know broke 20 before they even went to college, and by the time they were out of college were at least 30. Any guy still single at 30 that has not broke 20 never will and should join the priesthood or the other team.

    Even if you were a late bloomer and did not score till you were 21, that would still leave you 9 years to score another 19, so either you are living in your parents basement and playing video games for your entire 20s and getting high way too much or you simply aren’t manly enough and should start hitting for the other team where you can score 20 in one three day weekend at Cherry Grove on Fire Island.

  103. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    newb :74

    I believe the GSMLS #2750500 you’ve referenced is for 27 Bellavista Ct.

    According to Tax Records the most recent sale was on 12/23/09 for $737,500.

    As has been suggested here… should run, fast in the opposite direction.

  104. PGC says:

    #99 Nom

    I think you look at the funnel and realise, while it might be a fun place to stir up a bit of noise, you would put too much on the line with job, family and lifestyle by actually jumping in.

  105. 3b says:

    #104 Who would spend 700k in Edison??

  106. Final Doom says:

    John (95)-

    It’s hilarious if you replace the words GF or BJ with, say, “brake job”.

  107. Final Doom says:

    I don’t know what that means…

  108. “Who would spend 700k in Edison??”

    Dr. Manmohan Singh.

  109. Final Doom says:

    I bet 700K takes down a whole strip mall in Edison…with a curried goat shop (in the black) as an anchor tenant.

  110. Final Doom says:

    I really like curried goat.

  111. john says:

    Juicebox, I am saying max to be still considered a “good guy” marriage material. Someone to marry your daughter or sister. Kinda like the boring old reliable guys who married my sisters and sister-in-laws.

    Yea jersey shore/hamptons/ski house/hedonism/club med types can do 20 a year no problem. Guy who is a good guy was studying and working on his career and slept with a few GFs and that is it. Faithfull Schmuck. Heck I had the good girl at under ten lifetime.

    I say it depends on quality too. I wasted time on a few models that took me two to three months to to land and I was not throwing back that quick. My buddy steve OMG he even nailed a 50 year on a cruse whose husband was in prision for murder. Wrong on so many levels first of all he was only 21 and second of all she was old and yickely and third of all what if husband found out. He was all about the count. He could knock out three or four new years eve. Crazy sob sat next to an fugly middle aged women on trip back from cancun and asked her to join mile high club, she did and when they got back he just ignored her for two more hours. Guy was a body count god, would you want him anywhere near your sister. I wouldn’t share a handtowel with him.

    I saw a girl from Canada once knock off 7 in a row free style in Hedonism while waiting for her bags to be sent to her room. Yikes,

  112. Final Doom says:

    I had an assistant about 7-8 years ago who went to Hedonism. Came back and told me about her “airtight” experience.

    Egads. I wanted to take a shower (not with her!).

  113. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    UNDATED – About 100 of the nation’s nearly 15,000-plus school systems have moved to four-day school weeks, and dozens more are considering it.
    Why are they considering the change?

    The move would prevent layoffs and save money on transportation, heating and overhead.

    Some districts made the change as a last resort to save money.

    The school districts using the four-day system are in 17 states. Virginia is among the states that would allow the four-day option, as long as students meet the minimum instruction time — 180 days or 990 hours.

    Some educators and parents are against the idea.

    A superintendent in Oklahoma tells The Wall Street Journal it is hard to keep children’s attention for the extra 1 hour and 40 minutes each day.

    While teachers work the same number of hours, other staffers, such as bus drivers and cafeteria workers, don’t. They end up losing as much as 20 percent of their salaries.

    Working parents worry such a change would create daycare problems.

    This should dumb down the masses even more. Hopefully it comes with cuts in teacher pay and benefits.

  114. Final Doom says:

    Rally caps, everyone!

    “The announcement by Fitch that CMBS delinquencies rose by another 29 bps to a new high of 6.29% is no surprise to anyone who has been following RealPoint’s remittance/CMBS reports. Yet it is good to get independent confirmation that there is no respite in CMBS land. And with TALF for existing and new loans expiring on March 31 and June 31 respectively, without ever really taking of, this sector of the market is sure to face increasing pressure, especially when coupled with the certain increase in MBS rates once the last $30 billion or so in QE is purchased. The most recent culprit for deterioration: maturities of 5 year loans from the 2005 vintage as the refi market is still practically dead: “Approximately 30% of the newly delinquent loans were from 2005 transactions. In fact, the four largest newly delinquent loans (ranging in size from $65 million to $112 million) are from this vintage. Three of these four loans are past their 2010 maturity dates and are, therefore, categorized as non-performing matured loans.”

  115. Final Doom says:

    al (115)-

    Best those kids stay home and get to work planting vegetables.

  116. Omer Ganga says:

    I like the layout of your blog and I’m going to do the same thing for mine. Do you have any tips? Please PM ME on yahoo @ AmandaLovesYou702 1 2 3

  117. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    Or digging fall out shelters.

  118. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    ‘We will not offer Greece a cent’: German economy minister deals hammer blow to Athens as rioters attack police on the streets

    “It could almost be a battle from Greece’s ancient past – a melee of fighting at close quarters with shields, raised weapons and flags.
    But this was the scene in Athens yesterday as riot police clashed with protesters outraged by cutbacks designed to slash the country’s huge budget deficit.
    The violence came as Germany ruled out offering Greece ‘a cent’ of financial aid, insisting it should sort out it own problems.”

  119. Final Doom says:

    Gonna be a long, hot Summer.

  120. Final Doom says:

    I have great faith that our homegrown riots in CA will rival any in Europe.

  121. confused in NJ says:

    95.No man should ever marry if he slept with less than ten women. That is the minimun to know when a women is good in bed and bare minimun to learn the moves.Plus any guy who slept with less than ten women will cheat on his wife or divorce her eventually.

    You’re not only Wrong, you’re a Sick Puppy.

  122. Final Doom says:

    confused (123)-

    Stop it. He’s entertaining me.

  123. Final Doom says:

    Oblivion closing in on all fronts.

  124. freedy says:

    any riots in NJ, or are they to lazy?

  125. Anon E. Moose says:


    “airtight” experience

    Can you take from that she was smart enough to use barrier protection? And did it result in her termination or promotion?

  126. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    UK civil servants plan massive strike
    Up to 270,000 civil servants are to strike for 48 hours across the UK, in what will be the biggest industrial action by the sector in two decades.

    The parliament, courts, job centers, tax offices, museums and emergency police call centers are among some of the services that will be affected by the move.

    The massive walkout, called by the British Public and Commercial Services Union, is over changes to the civil service redundancy scheme.

    The union says that according to the plan civil servants will lose up to one-third of their entitlements, worth tens of thousands of pounds.

    This is excellent. The tit suckers of the world are falling for the bait hook line and sinker. They are like putty in our hands.

  127. Sastry says:

    700k in Edison in this market should get one a very large house (there are some recently constructed monstrosities off of Oak Tree Rd). Some Indian families may like the area (may be Asian families too).

    Anecdata: some people we know were complaining that we were not Indian enough when we said Edison is our second choice after Greenbrook (even after explaining that we lived just north of Rt 22 for a long time and liked it).

    700k is too much for Edison, and in a few months, I think the prices will go much further.

    But, since we have already hit the bottom (TM), my reasoning may not be applicable…


  128. Sastry says:

    “Plus any guy who slept with less than ten women will cheat on his wife or divorce her eventually.”

    Tiger Woods can use this logic to defend the first nine or ten courses he played! “Honey, I am just trying to meet the minimum requirements to be faithful for ever”!

  129. Mr Hyde says:

    127 moose

    ummmmm…. i dont think “airtight” means quite what you think it does.

    try throwing that term into urban dictionary.

    I would promote the lady. Is shows she’s a real go-getter, who can perform under pressure

  130. Final Doom says:

    Hyde (132)-

    The only analogy that keeps popping into my head is a Dyson vacuum cleaner.

    The one that swivels.

  131. Mr Hyde says:


    Perhaps we can start a pool of sorts on what nation riots first, with some basic qualifiers for the “event” to be classified as a riot.

    Perhaps we use a point system to better account for the multiple nations rioting. The winner is whoever has the highest score. With points awarded based on correct estimates of riot size/cause.

    Sort of like the riot version of the board game RISK.

  132. Final Doom says:

    At the time, the only thing I could think to ask her was if that was something that would make your ears pop.

    I felt like I was being reverse-harrassed.

  133. Mr Hyde says:


    I that former employee of yours is now a realtor, Veto would appreciate a link to her headshot ;)

  134. Final Doom says:

    hyde (134)-

    Got to have some way of working body count and property destruction into the game.

    Sort of a national deadpool, as it were.

  135. Mr Hyde says:


    1 point for every 10 million USD of damage
    1 point for each confirmed fatality.
    No partial points

  136. #134 – Perhaps we can start a pool of sorts on what nation riots first

    Dibs on France, that’s almost a shoe-in.

  137. Final Doom says:

    France may not riot first, but rest assured, they will riot the best.

  138. Painhrtz says:

    Doom, well played sir, anything to close a deal

  139. Final Doom says:

    Champions’ League final in Madrid this Summer.

    We could get simultaneous political and soccer riots.

  140. Painhrtz says:

    Hyde use of nonleathal weapons and apall from the worldwide media of the ongoings could be a good basis to start from.

  141. Mr Hyde says:


    if we are talking europe, my money is on the muslim youth riots that are bound to pop up taking the lead in damage. The greek ma take the lead in body count. I wouldnt out it past a sleeper eastern european nation to 1 up the greeks on body count though

  142. Mr Hyde says:

    Lets not discount Spain in all of this. They have a history of some impressive social unrest.

    With 40-50% youth unemployment Spain also looks like a contender

    My first guess:
    1 France
    2 Greece
    3 Spain
    4 Some Eastern Euro nation

    Of course i have complete confidence that any serious US riot would easily put the europeans to shame.

  143. 3b says:

    #130But, since we have already hit the bottom

    We ahve?? That news to me.

  144. 3b says:

    130But, since we have already hit the bottom

    We have ?? That news to me.

  145. Happy Daze says:

    131 Sastry

    No wonder Tiger didn’t mind playing balls “in the rough.”

  146. #146 – Lets not discount Spain in all of this

    /sports guy voice

    I gotta agree Hyde. But Ireland and Italy have also been looking good this year.
    You gotta give `em credit. Ireland’s got the hunger for the win and hasn’t had a world class riot in years. Kind of like the Cubs.

  147. Mr Hyde says:


    Maybe we could have tosh or one of the other software types write an app to count “google news’ stories on riots and sort them by nation.

    We could use that as our “Rep” (reputation) count.

    so we have the following point catagories:
    Damage: 1 point for 10million USD
    Kills: 1 point per body count
    Rep: 1 point per 50 stories

    How about a bonus category? 20 points for every politician or celebrity fatality. 20 points for every national/federal government building successfully razed.

  148. Barbara says:

    regarding the ROTH conversions: its not really an issue unless you’ve actually MADE money on them. Most people are just lucky to have recovered their losses. With no gains, there’s nothing to tax and nothing to save.

  149. Happy Daze says:

    I now have the urge to watch “Death Race 2000”.

  150. 3b (148):

    “130But, since we have already hit the bottom. We have ?? That news to me.”

    Me thinks that Sastry knows that the market hit bottom on the day he closed on his home purchase last year.

  151. Mr Hyde says:

    Tosh 150

    /sports guy voice

    I have to disagree with your Ireland call. They just haven’t had the spirit since that persistent northern Ireland incident.
    And Italy. Its a shame really. They have some world class spirit, but i just don’t see the drive. They tend to peter out by half time and cant consistently perform for the entire period.

    If i had to chose I would rank Ireland above Italy every time

    I have to rank both of them at the bottom, for the upcoming season

    1 France
    2 Greece
    3 Spain
    4 Some Eastern Euro nation
    5 Ireland
    6 Italy

  152. 3b says:

    #155 Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Well that explains his we have reached bottom comment.

  153. Anon E. Moose says:


    I must be too technical, thinking it involved latex. My line of thought might actually proved interesting and somewhat unusual. The ‘conventional’ definition seems plucked from any garage-filmed p0rn or run-of-the-mill frat house.

  154. Painhrtz says:

    We can do an over under on assasinations

    /sports guy voice

    Don’t foget those plucky young nations of the former soviet union. They have shown a willingness to riot and are relatively new to this whole freedom thing

  155. Mr Hyde says:


    your version of “airtight” is a more hardcore german “GGG” flavor. Spreken ze deutsch?

  156. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    Ireland isnt going to riot anymore they go straight to blowing up cars.

    England is pathetic. I saw how they protested when they turned in their guns. What a pathetic crap heap of humanity on that island.

    France is a good bet. They dismantly their own factories when upset. Couple that with the Muslim minority and the pompous people it certainly would be a powder keg.

    Italy and Greece are good bets too.

  157. Mr Hyde says:

    pain 159

    /Sports guy voice

    right you are, thats why i ranked an unknown eastern euro nation as #4. They dont have the budget for those fancy “non-lethal” toys that they euro’s have and arent quite as squeamish about breaking a few eggs in the kitchen.

  158. Juice Box Sean says:

    re: #112 – “Someone to marry your daughter or sister.”

    This isn’t Afghanistan they aren’t gonna wear burkas and be traded in marriage for a goat and alternating weekends “herding” the sheep.

    Women are women in this country, and

  159. yo'me says:

    The 5.9 percent annualized surge in fourth-quarter growth — the fastest since 2003 — was powered more by exports and business investment than the traditional drivers of consumption and housing. This new mix of demand will boost the economy by 3.7 percent in 2010 and pave the way for 3.5 percent annual average increases thereafter, said Joseph Carson, an economist at AllianceBernstein in New York, who coined the phrase.

  160. Mr Hyde says:

    If we want to get a little close to home, I think a Baltimore riot could be an astounding event that could set the bar for all to follow. Its already the south central of the east coast

  161. Juice Box Sean says:

    re: #112 – “Someone to marry your daughter or sister.”

    This isn’t Afghanistan they aren’t gonna wear burkas and be traded in marriage for a goat and alternating weekends “herding” the sheep.

  162. Nicholas says:

    I’m pretty sure that I’m getting more, higher-quality action then any unmarried guy.

    As it turns out, I am wealthier, happier, and I will live longer too according to the article above.

    It was obvious to me, very early, that there were some serious benefits to being married that outweighed the benefits to doing freelance work.

  163. #166 – This isn’t Afghanistan they aren’t gonna wear burkas and be traded in marriage for a goat

    IDK, have you seen John’s sister? They be lucky to get that goat.

  164. Painhrtz says:

    Hyde something I’m reminded of everytime I’m down there for work. they should hand out kevlar vests to tourists. Balitmore looks like Sarejevo circa 1996

  165. Nicholas says:

    College Park rioted just because we beat the Duke Blue Devils. Tear gas, horse mounted police, fires, screaming, smashing, “F-Duke” chants, and the like.

    Does that count or does it need to be political unrest?

  166. skep-tic says:

    Brits will riot first because the UK is most vulnerable to an Icelandic style currency run. Plus Brits have massive built in class envy/resentment that will become explosive in hard times. Not to mention the militant muslim population.

  167. Mr Hyde says:


    Nice! TY

    I like that Greek spirit!

    Greek Workers Disrupt Transport, Try to Storm Parliament as Lawmakers Vote

    Striking Greek workers shut down transport and tried to storm parliament as lawmakers passed 4.8 billion euros in budget cuts, including wage reductions, needed to trim the regiona s biggest budget deficit.

  168. skep-tic says:

    odd thing is that greeks can’t even muster the energy to shave or shower, yet they will storn parliament at the drop of a hat.

  169. Mr Hyde says:

    Looks like baltimore is warmimng up for the event!

    Thu Mar 04, 2010

    The Baltimore Sun

    Two hurt in shooting near Inner Harbor after fight at nightclub

    Two young men who had been involved in a fight inside a downtown Baltimore nightclub where a near riot occurred last week were shot and wounded early Thursday near the Inner Harbor, according to police who repeated calls for the club to be shut down.

    Of course Baltimore has a natural advantage in the scoring given how heavily armed it is as a city and the density of high value industrial sites on the water

  170. Final Doom says:

    Burn, baby, burn!

    Burn the mf-er down!!!

  171. Mr Hyde says:


    I dont have much faith in the British. yes they have plenty of tensions, but they have taken right to the whole “security state” model. You now have to be over the age of 21 to buy a knife and need ID to do so.

    They are so thoroughly disarmed an american boyscout troop could take a small british city

  172. RUWaiting says:


    Good luck with any offer that starts with a “5”

    Mortgage is 724K over 40 years!!


    BTW, 724K mortgage on a $737,500 [Re: 104] purchase price……how is that possible??!?!?

  173. Nicholas says:

    Baltimore hasn’t rioted since 1968 the year MLK was assasinated.

    The place seems pretty stable to me. It is a port town serving as a destination point for goods in and out of the country. They were always the red-headed stepchild of New York since it is an extra day travel in and out of the Chesapeak Bay and the rail lines can carry the double-stacked cargo boxes that come off the container ships.

    Both of those combined mean that they have had to pitch lower costs to entice shippers into port. With a slowdown in shipping my guess is shippers have alot of time but little money to move goods and would rather land in Baltimore instead.

    I do know that General Growth, the owner of the Harbor Place retail in Baltimore, is planning a mid-2010 chapter 11 bankrupcy filing. It has been in the papers lately.

    I would put them on the lower end of rioting. They are on a steady supply of assistance anyway.

  174. Jim says:

    167. I’m pretty sure that I’m getting more, higher-quality action then any unmarried guy.

    Tiger said the same thing and look what happened to him.

  175. “IDK, have you seen John’s sister? They be lucky to get that goat.”

    You might be better off trying to marry the goat. Perhaps then the dowry might include John’s sister?

  176. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [105] pgc

    True enough. I live or die by the perception others have of my integrity and intelligence. And there is no such thing as complete anonymity here.

    But the fact that I just don’t believe the same things as those down the funnel believe probably has more to do with it.

    For example, while I understand the birther’s argument, and even understand why they think the document profferred is insufficient, I also accept that the entire body of evidence establishes Dear Leader’s citizenship, even in this photoshop age (oh, and I don’t really care).

  177. . Perhaps then the dowry might include John’s sister?

    With that family it might include John…

  178. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [101] sastry

    Nothing like John. Not even close.

  179. Juice Box Sean says:

    re: Greece what is interesting is the
    rioters now have the ability to instantaneously organize themselves through text messages twitter and other new media without waiting passively to be informed by traditional newspapers and television. Technology has empowered the crowd or the mob, if something is happening in government that they don’t like they can organize nearly instantly for a flash riot.

  180. 3b says:

    #179Good luck with any offer that starts with a “5″

    Even thosu no offer should be higher than 3

  181. 3b says:

    #174 It is very Europeam not to bath or use deodorant. The men as well as the women.

  182. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Deliberate Massacre of US Sailors on USS Liberty Covered By Fox W/Commentary From CIA Analyst
    Commentary from 27-year CIA veteran Ray McGovern. Ray served 7 US Presidents, presenting the morning briefings for many of them.

    Its about time this story was covered. Its only been 40+ years.

  183. 3b says:

    179Good luck with any offer that starts with a “5″

    Even though no offer should be higher than 3.

  184. Barbara says:

    some college creep on my FB is trying to sell unemployed friends on NuSkin MLM (out of Utah, of course!). Oh yeah, he’s also an evangelical, what a surprise. Unfriend.

  185. Final Doom says:

    hyde (178)-

    England is a theme park. The most violent thing there is football.

    After seeing Ramsey get his leg broken last week, I’d say nothing else comes close on the violence scale.

  186. Final Doom says:

    The English have even reined in rugby.

  187. Final Doom says:

    sean (186)-

    Look for “flash riot” to enter the OED this year.

    You should trademark that. Or, “triot”…for Twitter riot.

  188. Final Doom says:

    barb (192)-

    Slick crowd you hung with there.

  189. Barbara says:

    196. this was the one guy that everyone tolerated. Every crowd has one.

  190. Final Doom says:

    Actually, some crazy bitch has been bugging my wife to sell these worthless Silpada trinkets. Just a total MSM/pyrmaid piece of slop.

    My wife got so annoyed, she had me contact the acquaintance to tell her to leave her alone.

  191. SG says:

    For Shore Guy,


  192. Barbara says:

    Doom, its insidious stuff, turns people into vampires over night with BFFs and family the first victims. My last experience was when I explained to a family member that they were getting involved in a pyramid scheme and to think twice before signing up. I did this nicely and with tact but was made the “enemy that won’t support her success.”

  193. john says:

    Who says RE is dead, this fund has returned over 110% in the last 12 months!!! Makes the days of 20% a year rise in housing value seem like nothing.

    Fidelity Real Estate Investment
    1 Year 110.36%

  194. rob says:

    Anyone have any opinions, good or bad, on Harding Township? Comparisons with Boonton Township?

    Clot, do you cover this area at all (around Harding Twp, to Bedminster, Bernards, etc)? What do you think about buying in this area soon, and would you act as a buyer’s agent?

    Grim, I recall an older article that said you represented buyers…do you still do that? Send me an email if you do, I’d be interested in working with you to find a home (or, if you don’t, I’ll contact Clot if he responds that he acts as a buyer’s agent).

    My wife and I have been looking for a few years. I don’t think RE has hit bottom, but I don’t think it will within the next year or two and I don’t want to wait 10 years or however long it might take if the govt keeps trying to prop up the mkt. So probably will buy some time this year if we find what we like.

  195. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Sure wish I didnt sell my Chinese rice last week. I would have been 5k richer this week.

  196. A.West says:

    I’m jealous that you get to read Atlas Shrugged for the first time. It’s such a great book on numerous levels.

    Newby: that house transaction sounds fishy. Looks like a plain old bilevel with mcmansion facade – what’s the point of paying so much for a newish 4/2.5 when there are so many older ones around? Some people are willing to pay an extra 200k for granite and a newer facade but stuff built in the past 10 yrs are alleged to often be structually weak.

    On Alan Greenspan – all his main works under Rand’s guidance were published in Capitalism The Unknown Ideal. They weren’t bad at all, she probably did a lot of the work herself. None of what he did at the FRB were remotely consistent with her ideas, or even his writings of the 60s. BTW, he blamed the Great Depression on the FRB in the 60s, but finds it (and himself) blameless in this debacle. Suggests that what he was really after all along was fame and power, not ideas. (By the way, a number of folks I know associated with the Ayn Rand Institute have been condemning him for the last 20 years based upon his philosophy and actions at the FRB and government).

    Combining the number of girls thread with Atlas Shrugged, see this quote:

    I think I see John described at the end of it.

  197. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    “I don’t think RE has hit bottom, but I don’t think it will within the next year or two and I don’t want to wait 10 years”

    Yeah, anectdotally I am seeing the same thing. Saw a cape with competing bids go for asking price 30 days after listing. 200-500k seems to be moving. If municipalities can get control over the property taxes a 10% or so price depreciation risk might be worth it to some people.

  198. Juice Box Sean says:

    Now you want out? Follow up story to Weehawken Firefighter the sole occupant of a high rise in Fort Meyers FL.

  199. Juice Box Sean says:

    re: #206 – be sure to rad the comments to this Firefighter that makes about 150k and his wife is in prison for stealing parking ticket payments from the town.

  200. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Is it my imagination or have a lot of people who are executives for pariah industries become crime victims of late?

    “An official with the New Orleans Police Department said Sequent Energy Management President Douglas Schantz’s disappearance may involve foul play, Dow Jones reported on Monday.

    Schantz hasn’t been seen since surveillance cameras caught him leaving a popular Bourbon Street club at 2 a.m. on Friday, according to the news service. He had been in New Orleans to make a donation to Tulane University on Thursday, and never showed up to a Friday meeting. . . . “

  201. Painhrtz says:

    Barbara – Ah the old MLM support ladder spiel. My personal favorite “my upline said you would say that.”

    People who participate in MLM schemes fit easily into the axiom A fool and his money are soon parted.

    Then again I wish I had started one, you have to see all the Amway crap in asia. you would think half of South Korea was sponsored by them.

  202. 3b says:

    #205 If municipalities can get control over the property taxes.

    Yeah, like that si going to happen.

  203. Barbara says:

    its psychological structure can only be describe as cultish.

  204. confused in NJ says:

    U.S. Taxpayers on the Hook for $5T of Fannie, Freddie Debt … No Matter What Barney Frank Says
    Posted Mar 08, 2010 03:34pm EST by Aaron Task in Investing, Recession, Banking, Housing, Politics
    Related: FNM, FRE, XLF, AIG, C, FAZ, JPM
    House Financial Services Chairman Barney Frank caused a bit of an uproar Friday when he suggested the U.S. government does not guarantee the debts of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

    Rep. Frank later recanted and backed a Treasury Department statement reassuring investors that, yes, Fannie and Freddie Mae debt is guaranteed by the U.S. government. “Going forward,” he said in a statement, we “will make sure that there are no implicit guarantees, hints, suggestions, or winks and nods…we will be explicit about what is and is not an obligation of the federal government.”

    But after years of winks and nods, there’s no doubt that Fannie and Freddie now enjoy an explicit guarantee, according to most observers. The U.S. government placed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in conservatorship in September 2008: “This means that the U.S. Taxpayer now stands behind $5 trillion of GSE debt,” according to the Congressional Research Service.

    The problem is that $5 trillion of so-called agency paper is not treated as if it is a debt of Uncle Sam for accounting purposes, says Richard Suttmeier, chief market strategist at Niagara International Capital and

    “Get it on the balance sheet – that’s where it belongs,” Suttmeier says. “Add it to the $14.2 trillion in [federal] debt and let’s move on.”

    Another Time Bomb Ticking But $5 trillion is a lot of money – even by government standards — and moving on may be the problem because of ongoing problems in the housing market, Suttmeier says. “There’s a general concern on Main Street U.S.A. that ‘my neighbors are throwing in their keys, there’s more for sale signs in my community…do I want to buy a new home, risking there’s still downside risk to housing?’ ”

    Noting the Case-Shiller 20-City Home Price Index is still 50% above 1999 levels and mortgage delinquencies are still rising despite the rebound in GDP, Suttmeier says “victory is nowhere in sight, particularly when the drain we’re going to see from Fannie and Freddie is unlimited losses between now and the end of 2012 — on top of the $400 billion that’s already been allocated.”

    Coincidentally (or not), the FDIC is allowing U.S. banks until 2012 before forcing them to fully write-down bad or toxic loans, which is “another time bomb ticking,” Suttmeier says. “They’re hoping the public market comes back into the mortgage arena, which is going to be hard to do.”

    Unlimited losses from Fannie and Freddie? Keeping zombie banks alive on the backs of the taxpayer? Suttmeier’s right: There’s no accounting for that

  205. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    A West 204,

    Thanks! And oddly enough I had just started reading that section this morning.

    The book has just been “wow-ing” me since I picked it up.

    Especially now, in these political/financial times…

    and yes, I too see what you mean about the “conquest of a mindless body” relevance to our blog member.

    The sensual scenes between Rearden and Dagny are wonderful.

    I’d love to have a book group set up (for anyone willing to travel to Bergen County. I’m off most of this week (after tonight) and if I can clear it with the spouse would have a Fri Sat GTG here.

    It would depend on the availability, number of interested folks and I’d serve some basic food/drink.

    Anyone interested?

    I’d also have to finish the book by then or we could do this in two parts: on GTG for the first half, and another for the rest of the book.


  206. Anon E. Moose says:


    Funny that I started reading it recently as well; about half through.

    Jim Taggart marries a ‘commoner’ and “society” is all a-buzz; the pitiful girl thinks [Jim’s sister] Dagny is a monster because all she knows is Jim’s b!tching about her; and at her own wedding reception makes it a point to engage her new sister-in-law:

    “I’ll put you in your place. I’m Mrs. Taggart. I’m the woman in this family now.”
    “That’s quite all right,” said Dagny. “I’m the man.”

  207. sastry says:

    3b# Re: Market Bottom…

    I was trying to do a word play on real-estate statements. And on my friends’ statements that I timed the market well (though, we just got blindly lucky and bought something at a very low price)…

    I think it is likely to be a gradual drop in prices for a while.


  208. Firestormik says:

    Re: An eastern country to revolt. You can scratch it off your list. These countries have been through much worse.

  209. Comrade Nom Deplume says:


    The hypocrisy of the NYT ed board is well known, but sometimes it manages to surpass itself.

    The NYT takes issue with GOP “spokespeople” who are flamed at the admin. for hiring attorneys from what I (and they) used to call “the Guantanamo Bar Association” (they even had hats).

    It’s the same old tired story (by the GOP) of blaming the lawyer for his client.

    Now why is this hypocrisy by the left? Because they suggested that folks like Yoo and others should be tried, or at least disbarred, for doing the exact same thing.

    Oh, parse it as you might, and many defending the NYT do, arguing that the gitmo lawywers’ work was noble, while the administration’s memos were in furtherance of a crime.

    The problem with that is that the parsing is still content–based. Yet I see no distinction between an attorney asked to write an opinion and an attorney asked to defend a terrorist. Both could be pursuing their task honestly and earnestly, or both could be engaged in a subversive purpose. Yet that isn’t how the NYT sees it. Rather, the purpose dictates the validity, and the purpose comes from the client.
    So, regardless of how NYT spins it, they still judge the attorney by his client. After all, no client, no work, and nothing to criticize.

  210. confused in NJ says:

    124.Final Doom says:
    March 8, 2010 at 1:47 pm
    confused (123)-

    Stop it. He’s entertaining me.

    You are right, I stand corrected. Interesting that when you sleep with someone, you actually sleep with everyone they slept with. So, using a metric of 30 brings you to 900. Not sure I even want to be in the same City with that Person in this day and age. To many latent diseases waiting to spring out like the HIV they are finding hiding in bone marrow and undetectable with standard blood tests.

  211. Sastry says:


    The mental drain from the breakups is probably much worse.

  212. Sastry says:

    #218 Nom. Apples and Oranges.

    Yu’s role was closer to that of an accomplice — he authored memos on how to torture. On the other hand, the public defenders basically were representing the rights of the accused [They were not promoting Al Qaeda ideology via some creative interpretation of rules].

    The parallel would be if the attorneys actually advocated the ideology of terrorists.

    The similarity is that there is an abuse of power. In Wu’s case, it was to his benefit, and in the attorneys’ case, the Satan’s Spawn is using her Fox pulpit to muddy the waters. See, even you fell for it.


  213. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    215 Anon

    Yep… recall that line — read it today… think of that match up Jim Taggart and Cherryl Brooks (Mrs Taggart) and when you get to Francisco’s speech about how he actually not a playboy you can understand it even more.

    A West cites it in a link above at 204

    I have only about a half-dozen stories regarding Dagny’s response of “that’s okay, I’m the man.”


  214. Sastry says:

    #218 Nom, the motive is very clear in case of Yoo — please the boss to get ahead (I used “Wu” and “Yu”, seems like I am extra coherent today).

    Attributing a motive in the case of “Jihad 9” will be a stretch.


  215. dan says:

    The New Jersey Riot Expectation Report?

    I think you need to add points for water cannons used.

  216. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Nom, 218

    F*ck the Times… I went from daily to only weekends and now really want to pull the subscription altogether.

    The article that about did it for me was some 60 ish writer for them who derided “those new gym members who show up in Jan for a few months” and how she had to endure them.

    That f*cking bloated, self important s.cumbag never once thought to offer five minutes of her years and years of gym training to help motivate or even acknowledge the person who at least had the guts to make an effort.

    More of “hooray for me” and “oh screw that loser (even though they are trying.)

    The picture that came to mind was the gym boot stamping on a face.

    As I read it I wanted to find the phone number, call her up shame her… then I realized, these are folks who are unshame-able. Sickening.


  217. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [221] sastry

    My objection to your reasoning is that you are assuming facts not in evidence.

    Further, you fall into the content-based trap I suggested. That defending the rights of odious accused is noble, and attempting to push the constitutional envelope in a manner you disagree with is immoral (yet it is also something done with equal glee by liberals). You are making a distinction between the type of legal work based on the client, and worse yet, you are imputing motives that I am pretty sure you have no firsthand knowledge of.

    Now, you would have done better to compare Yoo’s opinion to the tax opinions written by law firms on transactions. Both were used to justify questionable activities and motives. And despite efforts by the government to prosecute or sanction authors of tax opinions, the fact is, they can’t do so unless it was clear that the motive was to enable a crime. Now, the tax code provides that an attorney that authors just such an opinion must have a reasonable basis. Doesn’t mean the client will prevail, but it does mean that the attorney was just doing his job.

    Now, you seem to think that is the case for Yoo and Bybee, or that Yoo at least told the admin. what they wanted to hear. If you have facts proving this, get on the Acela, go to DC and present your facts to whatever body is convened to hear them.

    But I suggest that if these attorneys took the position that the law is unsettled, and that there is a “colorable” argument in support, then it is immaterial what Yoo’s motivation was.

    And unpopular as this interpretation of presidential power was, I have yet to hear a clear pronouncement of law that it was illegal. Even in that event, the attorneys recommending such an action are not liable criminally for their advice per se absent a finding that they stepped outside of their roles as attorneys. Further, absent a finding that the positions advanced were so clearly illegal as to be frivolous, I see no basis for even threatening disbarment.

  218. Yikes says:

    anyone know these women?

    pretty bad idea if you ask me

  219. Bubble Disciple says:

    guy is from NJ though story takes place in FLA:

  220. PGC says:


    Shaky ground even for you. There is a big difference here. John Yoo was charged and found guilty by the DOJ with “intentional professional misconduct”.

    Still, does your malpractice insurance have a “Just pleasing the boss” clause in it?

  221. Sean says:

    RE: #227 – crazy stuff.

    This is much cheaper and less dangerous when you want to feel foxy.

  222. PGC says:

    “But the inescapable fact is that war shifts power to the branch most responsible for its waging: the executive.”

    Nom, I won’t even ask for your opinion on Yoo. I can’t be bothered with the

    You can’t ask an opinion …. engage in contract ….. retainer….. NJ Bar association ….. yadda, yadda yadda ….

    I put this up as a great example of another nail in the constitution. This flies in the face of three equal branches of government.

  223. Final Doom says:

    rob (202)-

    I have a longstanding policy of not representing people I meet through this board.

    I would, however, be happy to refer you to a good agent for that area. You can get my contacts through Grim.

  224. sas says:

    what did I tell you many moons ago?

    “FDIC Urges Pensions to Invest in Failed Banks: Report”


  225. Final Doom says:

    sl (213)-

    If that includes Everclear and Cheetos, count me in.

    “It would depend on the availability, number of interested folks and I’d serve some basic food/drink.”

  226. Final Doom says:

    confused (219)-

    I don’t think John’s case of mad cow is latent or hiding in his bone marrow at all.

    I think a brain scan of that guy basically reveals a pockmarked chunk of rancid cheese.

  227. Final Doom says:

    dan (224)-

    Good point. Water cannons kick ass.

  228. Yikes says:

    Clot – better to spend money on a 3D TV (They’re all the rage!) or weapons and ammo?

    i still can’t find a flashbang online anywhere. i’d like half a dozen just in case.

    looking around at SUVs is fun. im going to try to lease one for 2-3 years. kind of wish i could make the windows bulletproof

  229. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    Yeah you called it regarding pensions. Now Corzine invested the pension funds in the market and lost most of the money. So lets take whats left and buy FDIC assets because the FDIC will be dissolved after the 2000 small and regional banks are closed.

  230. Yikes says:

    the best part about reading John’s “conquests” … those who are constantly talking about it RARELY got it.

    if you’re well-versed in making things happen with the ladies, you dont need to come on an anon message board and brag.

    i think john’s shtick is funny, but that guy couldn’t get his d!ck wet in the shower …

  231. sas says:

    “better to spend money on a 3D TV (They’re all the rage!) or weapons and ammo?”

    one thing that gets overlooked are flares.
    can’t hurt to have a few flares stashed away for emergency (both homes or in yer automobile).


  232. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [229] PGC


    “Dept. of Justice Clears UC Berkeley Professor John Yoo of Misconduct

    By Riya Bhattacharjee

    Thursday February 25, 2010

    “An internal review by the U.S. Department of Justice released Friday said that the lawyers who authorized waterboarding and other harsh interrogation techniques under the Bush administration showed “poor judgment” but were not guilty of professional misconduct. . . . ”

    BTW, this was in a Berkeley paper.

    As for my opinion on Yoo, I think DOJ already issued one, and I don’t need to reinvent the wheel here.

  233. PGC says:

    #213 Still

    I have been crying for a Bergen GTG for years. The closest we got was Rich suggesting The Iron Horse in Westwood.

    Unfortunatly (or fortunatly) I have a Casino night on Fri and Mrs PGC has decreed I am babysitting Sat.

  234. PGC says:

    #231 Nom

    I had just found that. My only deene was that I was out of the country at the time.

    Here is a nice piece from your favorite source.

    I love this quote;
    ‘“While I have declined to adopt O.P.R.’s findings of misconduct, I fear that John Yoo’s loyalty to his own ideology and convictions clouded his view of his obligation to his client and led him to author opinions that reflected his own extreme, albeit sincerely held, view of executive power while speaking for an institutional client,” Mr. Margolis said’

  235. PGC says:

    deene = defense

    I need a new keyboard

  236. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [243] pgc

    Understood. If you want a pretty good read (and are having trouble sleeping), I suggest the following:

    Remember, I am not saying he is or is not correct. Fact is, there is a difference of opinion, and it isn’t settled by whether it is objectively right or wrong—it it could, it wouldn’t be unsettled. It is decided when law is crafted to close the gap.

    Further, we, as a society, have to decide what we permit our elected officials to do in furtherance of their office. If we erode the barrier of immunity for official acts, then look for not just republicans to be fending off criminal complaints, but democrats as well. It is a two-edged sword.

  237. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [243] PGC,

    I read that, and in a rare (for the NYT) fillip to the complete picture, there is this:

    “Indeed, Mr. Margolis’s 69-page report was often more critical of the ethics office than of the Bush administration lawyers themselves.”

    But do you also see the subtle hand of politics here? In the end, like the Yoo memo, this was also pre-ordained as the Dems, who control this process, got precisely what they wanted: To bloody Yoo and Bybee and the prior admin. but not paint themselves into a corner and restrict their own territory.

  238. PGC says:

    #245 Nom

    Agreed, but on the other side, the fact is that the OPRs findings still stand means you can’t use Yoo against the NYT.

    Going back to he actual editorial there is a massive difference here in that regardless if the lawyers acted in a noble or not cause, there was no law broken, no conflict of interest or interpretation of the law valid or invalid.

    This is the right wing neocons trying the lawyers in the court of public opiion. If you are not for us, you are one of them. These lawyers are terrorists.

    The sad part here is that again the neocons show a middle finger salute to the 6th and 8th amendments.

  239. Jim Anderson says:

    I love this blog. Thanks for the great information. I have it bookmarked and will be back. If anybody needs how to get a new credit file don’t hesitate to come on over.

  240. safeashouses says:

    People are getting angrier. Seems like a former client shot up a financial office.

  241. Final Doom says:


    I always keep flares in my cars. Good call.

    People love to sneak them into soccer matches in Italy and light them up. Never been able to figure out why.

  242. PGC says:

    #183 Nom

    Down the funnel and the birthers. Here is my biggest issue. There is always partisanship and double standards in these arguments. I understand the birthers arguments and agree that their point has been refuted, but to me the issue is not one of upholding the constitution, but one of race. They are pi$$ed he is not of their ethnicity. One thing that got passed over in the election was the face that McC was born in Panama, but that got passed over . If McC had won, would we have seen the same response?

    Now you may say that it is a rhetorical question and how would you ever know the difference. I would say that there is a bigger double standard that proves the point. A lot of people go after the campaign message of Hope and Change. They say O got elected on a false platform. You know what, maybe that’s right., but you know that’s politics. O ran the campaign that he needed to win. It was an impressive feat and caught the right and the mainstream GOP off guard. They expected to see Hilary at the podium and they couldn’t work out how to stop O. But I would put that campaign second to Bush 2004. SwiftBoating Kerry. That was political genius and will be hard to ever top. GWB did what he had to do to win.

    Now we see that they worked out now how to stop it. People here say that O squandered the political capital, I say maybe, but “The Party of NO + Joe L” was a pretty big roadblock. The so called “Dog and Pony” healthcare sitdown was ridiculed by some here, but I saw it as a great fight back. Pull the GOP to the front and get them to justify their position. The biggest dog and pony was the Pavlov “clean state”, “lets start over” sound bites.

    For me that sad thing is that the double standards, will always be there and the country is worse for it.

  243. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:


    Cry me the blues. Shall I get my violin? Everything reverts back to racism for you liberal Communists.

    Dont like government takeover of healthcare? You are a racist

    Criticize Israel? You are an antisemite

    Ill never understand that mindset. Its like a bunch of man children rattling their crib because Mommy said its time to goto bed.

    Grow up.

  244. PGC says:

    #252 Al

    I think over the past few days you have done a good job of defining Antisem1tism in your own terms.

    The more you post, the more I see that you and Uncle Joe have a lot in common.
    That politcal spectrum diagram I posted was spot on in showing how close you are to Commun1sm.

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