Shared Sacrifice

From the Record:

Property tax rebates may vanish this year

Property tax bills in New Jersey have gone up 56 percent since 2001. But the rebate checks that once offset those bills by as much 20 percent may vanish this year.

New Jersey households could also be paying even more for schools, trash removal, road maintenance and other local government services – whose costs have grown nearly 70 percent since 2001 – if Governor Christie’s proposed budget clears the state Legislature unchanged.

Christie, who won the November election largely by pledging to lower the state’s property tax burden, wants to trim a combined $2 billion from the state programs that either soften property tax bills through rebates or help local governments cover spending needs with state aid.

In the past two days, Christie’s administration has announced proposed cuts of $123.2 million in aid to Bergen County towns and $80.4 million in aid to Passaic County towns.

The rebate checks would be cut this year even as property tax bills have risen to a record $7,281 statewide. The rebate checks averaged $1,000 in 2007, but they have been reduced several times since — and so have the number of households that qualify for them.

The rebates once were funded with $2 billion, but Christie has proposed cutting the rebates altogether in his budget to save $848 million. Instead he would create a tax credit funded with $270 million.

“We will send you property tax relief, after a break to reform the system, as a direct credit on your property tax bill,” Christie said during his budget address Tuesday.

“The first credits will appear in May 2011, in recognition of the shared sacrifice we all must make,” he said.

This entry was posted in New Jersey Real Estate, Politics, Property Taxes. Bookmark the permalink.

502 Responses to Shared Sacrifice

  1. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Supply of Foreclosed Homes on the Rise Again

    The supply of foreclosed homes that banks need to sell is rising again, signaling further downward pressure on home prices in some parts of the U.S.

    Mortgage analysts at Barclays Capital in New York estimated that banks and mortgage investors held a total of 645,800 foreclosed homes in January, up 4.6% from 617,286 a month earlier.

    According to Barclays, the supply peaked at around 845,000 in November 2008 and then declined through 2009.

    Even though the number of people behind on mortgage payments kept rising last year, the flow of homes into bank ownership slowed markedly because of time-consuming efforts to figure out which distressed borrowers could qualify for programs that attempt to avert foreclosures by reducing monthly payments. Meanwhile, brisk demand from investors and first-time home buyers helped banks unload many of the homes they held.

    Now the supply is rising again because banks are determining that many homeowners don’t qualify for loan modifications and are completing more foreclosures. Home sales also have slowed in recent months.

    Barclays projects that the supply of foreclosed homes will rise to about 733,000 in April, then begin to decline again gradually. Foreclosed properties now account for roughly a fifth of all homes listed for sale nationally.

  2. Mocha says:

    so close

  3. Essex says:

    New Jersey….a great place to be from.

  4. Final Doom says:

    Yikes (last thread)-

    Yeah, I saw the Dempsey goal. I was one of the 11 people in the US watching Fulham/Juventus during March madness yesterday.

    Absolutely one of the best games (and def. the best comeback) I’ve watched in the past 3-4 years. Fulham looked buried when Juve scored in the first minute. Being down 4-1 on aggregate at that point, most teams would’ve died.

    That was Dempsey’s first game back since the knee injury. Not bad form.

  5. yo'me says:

    #205 from prev thread

    You don’t know how the system works… with a comment like that

    THis is how the system works

    http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2010/feb/15/business/ct-biz-0215-burns-side-qanda–20100212

  6. yo'me says:

    does anybody know the process of being able to close,all opening of new credit cards to avoid Identity theft?

  7. Final Doom says:

    yo (5)-

    The system doesn’t work. The wheels are coming off everything. The worse it gets, the more the talking head cheerleaders yammer about “recovery”.

    Got ammo?

  8. d2b says:

    Yo-
    You can notify the credit bureaus to put a hold on all new accounts. It does not always work, but I did it a couple of years ago.

  9. Essex says:

    Solution: Shut it off.

    Turn off the TV. Shut down the PC.
    Go outside. Take a ride.

  10. Seneca says:

    …overheard yesterday among Realtor discussion: “It’s a seller’s market in Brigadoon for anything under 500k.”

    MLS 2745472 in Clark.
    Has this been for sale for more than two years now? Wasn’t the opening ask about $150,000 more?

    http://bit.ly/bg4QEC

  11. borat obama says:

    First to say first

  12. Mr Hyde says:

    Sastry

    from yesterday:

    They can pass what ever healthcae plan they want. They cant pay for it, so int he end it doesnt matter.

    Although it seems like it will be challenged right away on constitutional grounds.

  13. Mr Hyde says:

    When will people wake to the reality of “rebate” checks. They raised taxes in order to write the rebate check. We as a state were paying less in tax when they weren’t cutting rebate checks.

    Stupid people!

  14. Barbara says:

    Mr Hyde,
    its like setting your alarm clock 10 mins ahead…

  15. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Bank Failure Friday. Lets get it on!

    We are all on the express elevator to hell.

  16. Barbara says:

    Al,
    leave the poetry to Final Doom, its the way we like things around here.

  17. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    “President Obama gave a thumbs up Thursday to the outline of a plan to legalize illegal immigrants and create a flow of low-skilled foreign workers for the future, saying the immigration bill being worked on by a Republican and a Democrat is “promising.”

    In their broad blueprint, Sens. Charles E. Schumer, New York Democrat, and Lindsey Graham, South Carolina Republican, call for illegal immigrants to be put on a path to citizenship, offer green cards to keep high-skilled foreign university graduates and would create a temporary program for low-skilled workers, with some also getting the chance to become citizens.”

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/18/obama-endorses-immigration-blueprint/

  18. Final Doom says:

    I’m really beginning to warm to this guy, Christie:

    “I could feel when I started talking about the teachers union, you know how they say, y’know, dogs can smell fear? You could feel the air come out of that room. Those people have been the bullies of State Street. They have bullied every administration, Democrat and Republican. And they’re not going to bully me. So now the question’s going to be, what do they want to do?”

  19. Mr Hyde says:

    “President Obama gave a thumbs up Thursday to the outline of a plan to legalize illegal immigrants and create a flow of low-skilled foreign workers for the future, saying the immigration bill being worked on by a Republican and a Democrat is “promising.”

    That really burns my bonnet!!!!!

    Lock down the borders arrest them all and deport them immediately!

    Think of all the jobs that would create in the need to hire additional investigation personal to track down all the illegal immigrants and then all the people needed to collect them and ship them back to where they came from!!!

    Thats even more jobs then the census would create. Not to mention the fact that it would remove the artificial downward pressure on entry level jobs one you forcibly remove illegal labor.

    I am all for legal immigration, bring it on, but F the illegal BS.

  20. Final Doom says:

    Duh.

    “What we’ve been doing at the state level is papering over the excess of the locals. And I put it out there in the speech yesterday: In 2009, when we lose 121,000 private sector jobs, we add 11,300 jobs at the municipal and school board level. It’s unconscionable.”

    Funny that a guy who just points out simple truths is now regarded as dangerous by the sekretariat.

  21. Mr Hyde says:

    Doom 18

    My wifes side of the family is all about “what about the teachers? what about the children?”

    You should see their heads spinning. We could generate electircy from it if we threw in a little copper wire!

  22. goonsquad says:

    Can anyone give me a good explanation of why property taxes are so high in Millburn when they have so many commercial rateables, including the short hills mall? Is there something out of the ordinary (debt), or is it just the usual for NNJ (high teacher, administrator, public official salaries, pensions)?

  23. Mr Hyde says:

    I wonder how much money NJ alone could save in social program expenditures by actively and aggressively enforcing immigration laws?

    And yes the cost of landscaping will go up. Cry me a river.

  24. Final Doom says:

    hyde (19)-

    The gut-wrenching thing about this approach is that it makes no distinction between the value of a highly-skilled, grad/PhD student-type immigration candidate that we should be trying to keep here…and an illiterate wetback with no job skills and a propensity to turn to petty crime to make ends meet.

    Our lack of will to exercise judgment and make distinctions will be our undoing in the end. We will keep far too many wetbacks and send home far too many worthy candidates…who will then end up being our competitors (and, our superiors).

  25. Final Doom says:

    hyde (21)-

    Tell all the whingeing, crybaby liberals to suck it the fcuk up.

    Time to crack skulls.

  26. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    22.

    Probably 2 sets of books like the state has.

  27. Nomad says:

    Cause you got coin and the city wants it.

  28. freedy says:

    NJ is to far gone to do anything about
    cutting Social programs, especially for the
    illegal immigrants that are here.

    free hospital, free s8 housing, food stamps,
    ssi, it goes on and on. walk the streets

  29. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    23.

    Hyde,

    The real kicker is you are going to pay for their healthcare as well. Well, we pay for it now anyway but you know what I mean.

    Gotta go to work so that this cow can nurse a few more at the tit.

  30. Barbara says:

    24.
    Its true. Many Indian parents that I am friendly with resent the amnesty when they contribute more, take far less and came here legally, already educated and working.

  31. Mr Hyde says:

    24 Doom

    I’m a realist at heart. The politicos want their own slave labor class in order to compete at some level with china.

    deporting people alone isnt enough to stop the incentive to border hop. Enforce a penalty of 50% annual revenues on any company found to employ illegals.

    If US business and government want a local slave lass then just develop your business facilities across the border in mexico. That is what NAFTA was for anyway, right?

  32. Barbara says:

    family dinner tonight, gonna be interesting given all this Christie stuff. I will keep my mouth shut though, its a birthday dinner, my husband’s. I’ll order a lemon drop martini and be rolling before the appetizers. Light weight.

  33. NJGator says:

    BTW – 2 attached cape cods apparently equal a colonial.

  34. Barbara says:

    31.
    Gator,
    its like house tumors! Or house fungi?

  35. NJGator says:

    Barbara – won’t the lemon drop just let all the honesty out? I know it would for me.

  36. Mr Hyde says:

    Doom 25

    I did and got a dirty look. They also want to know why CC doesnt Tax The Rich to pay for the deficit. of course they would probably fall into the low end of rich as they make about 2X median income, but they really mean those “richer” then they are.

  37. Barbara says:

    Gator
    one makes me happy, two makes me ugly. I will keep it at one.

  38. Final Doom says:

    Barb (33)-

    You have punctured a fantasy of mine. I figured you could match me shot-for-shot through a bottle of Knob Creek.

  39. Final Doom says:

    barb (38)-

    Three makes you smarter and stronger.

    “one makes me happy, two makes me ugly.”

  40. Barbara says:

    Final Doom, ever see the Kids In The Hall skit of the Girly Drink Alcoholic? I require a small south east asian village floating above a beverage the color of something not found in nature if we are going to play that game!

  41. Mr Hyde says:

    Speaking of attached homes.

    Has anyone seen the house on 24 on the west side of mendham that is 3 or four different building attached into one house? And they are all completely different types of buildings?

    I will try and get a picture next time i drive by. Its been there forever.

  42. Nomad says:

    Consider myself conservative leaning on business issues and a bit liberal leaning on the social stuff. I see on a regular basis / first hand the amount of healthcare dolled out to folks who can’t afford to pay for it (legal and illegal patients).

    I guess part of our responsibility as a world leader is to set an example and act in a compassionate manner to those less fortunate but some of the give aways are starting to get under my skin and I have a pretty long fuse for this stuff.

    How long until we regularly see people saying FTS and refusing to pay fed and state taxes and being hauled off to jail with their heels dug in on this issue?

    I mean at what point does all this debt literally crush our nation.

    I am starting to think as citizens, we need to have a lot more accountability for our actions and enjoy the benefits of our success and the pain of our own mistakes.

    Perhaps no one is accountable anymore and that may be a root problem.

  43. NJGator says:

    Barbara – on a past trip to Las Vegas, we went to the Commander’s Palace 25 cent martini lunch. They do limit you to 4 martinis at lunch. After I ordered my first, they told me the chef was too busy to make me a vegetarian entree. I did have my 4 martinis though, and though my memories of that day are fuzzy, I do recall going to my spa appointment quite happy.

  44. Barbara says:

    three martinis…I never tried. I may need paramedics.

  45. Mr Hyde says:

    So is everyone else here OK with the constant game of “let the illegals stream in and then hand out amnesty for all” ever 5 – 10 years????

    Once again i am fine with controlled immigration regardless of where said immigrants may be from but think the illegal immigration game that is played by politicians is outrageous!

  46. Barbara says:

    Gator,
    maybe clot is right, I need to get over that two drink hump and then its all joy.

  47. NJGator says:

    Hyde – would you have given amnesty to these folks?

    Give Me Your Tired, Your Poor, Your Homeschoolers

    The Romeikes are not your typical asylum seekers. They did not come to the U.S. to flee war or despotism in their native land. No, these music teachers left Germany because they didn’t like what their children were learning in public school — and because homeschooling is illegal there.

    “It’s our fundamental right to decide how we want to teach our children,” says Uwe Romeike, an Evangelical Christian and a concert pianist who sold his treasured Steinway to help pay for the move.

    Romeike decided to uproot his family in 2008 after he and his wife had accrued about $10,000 in fines for homeschooling their three oldest children and police had turned up at their doorstep and escorted them to school. “My kids were crying, but nobody seemed to care,” Romeike says of the incident.

    So why did he seek asylum in the U.S. rather than relocate to nearby Austria or another European country that allows homeschooling? Romeike’s wife Hannelore tells TIME the family was contacted by the Virginia-based Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA), which suggested they go to the U.S. and settle in Morristown, Tenn. The nonprofit organization, which defends the rights of the U.S. homeschooling community — with its estimated 2 million children, or about 4% of the total school-age population — is expanding its overseas outreach. And on Jan. 26, the HSLDA helped the Romeikes become the first people granted asylum in the U.S. because they were persecuted for homeschooling.

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1968099,00.html

  48. Barbara says:

    here it is, Girly drink drunk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_H_sVNgvf4

  49. Mr Hyde says:

    its 48 W Main St,

  50. safeashouses says:

    #48 Gator,

    Maybe there was a shortage of religious home schooling zealots in TN so they had to import some.

  51. Barbara says:

    hyde,
    what a bunch of nonsense with that house. A lot of beauties in NJ are ruined by “inlaw suite” style additions.

  52. yo'me says:

    I know 3 legal immigrants room together to be able to afford an apartment.Because of low paying job,it was wiser for them to leave the country, for they can not afford to live here.Not much is left after paying upkeeps,staples and car insurance.This are single people with no family to feed here.

  53. safeashouses says:

    hyde,

    i like the colonial in the middle of that shot. I never understood why people build extensions that don’t go with the original structure.

  54. Outofstater says:

    #46 I’m with you, Hyde.

  55. Mr Hyde says:

    Gator

    I am not a policy expert or legal expert and in terms of amnesty decisions on specific cases i am probably not qualified to make a judgment. We already have a legal frame work in place for such requests. I do not know the details of said frame work, i only ask that it e followed.

    I may not agree with all aspects of the current legal amnesty channels if i looked at it in minute detail, but thats fine, i do not expect the world to suit me. I only want existing legal channels enforced and respected.

    If the people in your example meet existing guidelines for amnesty then by all means let them use the available channels. if they do not then no.

    In the case of mass illegal immigration the issue is clear and present. We have had massive numbers of illegal aliens hopping the border then promptly having an anchor baby.

    People will cry that we will be breaking up families and hurting children. We did not force anyone to break the laws. Their actions are their own and hence so are the repercussions. If they do not want to breakup their family take your children with you.

    I am well aware of this nations immigrant roots and the statue of liberty’s inscription Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, … I am also aware that we are no longer a burgeoning your nation trying to fill its territory. We cannot support our current population with existing governmental and tax structures, we are bankrupt, yet we are going to condone mass illegal immigration when said population is a net drain on society and drives the entry level of the labor market further down only exacerbating employment and income challenges for the lower income and poor who are legally citizens.

    I want the US to clean up our own mess and take care of our own people in a manner as would be expected of the wealthiest nation in the world before trying to cure the ills of neighboring poor populations (BS, more like trying to create a slave labor class) and as a result further exacerbating the social challenges confronting the low income and poor Americans, as well as forcing all Americans to pay for the failure of our politicians to take care of its own citizens first.

  56. Shore Guy says:

    “I am all for legal immigration, bring it on, but F the illegal BS”

    Amen. Be legal or be gone.

  57. Shore Guy says:

    ” Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,”

    Let us not forget, this was a poem. It was not a law. It was not a statement of government policy. It was a poem.

  58. Shore Guy says:

    Ket,

    The bottom line is that, unless we have an airtight southern border, we are in the business of amnesty, new wave of illegals, amnesty….

  59. House Whine says:

    43- You are spot on. Particularly your last line about accountability makes so much sense to me. Aren’t we taught that there are consequences to our actions? We all want the good stuff, but want to run away from the bad stuff. I think the bad stuff is catching up with us though.

  60. safeashouses says:

    #59 Shore Guy

    Ditto.

    You wouldn’t believe how much stress, bs, and expense my wife and I went through when we were applying for her green card.

    Now they give illegals no doc mtgs, bank accounts, and are giving them a free pass into the country.

  61. veto that says:

    “offer green cards to keep high-skilled foreign university graduates and would create a temporary program for low-skilled workers”

    clot, the article at 17 says that we are differentiating by favoring skilled, educated workers. Why do you think we are not doing that?

  62. Shore Guy says:

    We need to redefine “United States Person.” We already exclude from this the children born to foreign diplomats who are stationed here. It should be possible to exclude children of illegals and those just passing through, e.g. airport layovers. This would end thw anchor baby issue.

    If mom and dad break into the country and then continue to break our laws by staying here, any consequences to their children are of their own making.

  63. John says:

    I can’t believe I am staying this. Does the stock market every go down?

    I say lets keep every smoking hot illegal female immigrant between 18 and 30 and send them all back.

    Go mow your own damm lawns you lazy bums and pay an extra buck for dinner at a restaurant so they can afford legal bus boys.

    Also would sold the teen age unemployment problem.

    Plus keeping hot 18-30 illegals gives the ugly nerdy rich guys a chance to marry a Hottie!!

    problem solved letsmove on.

  64. freedy says:

    if you want to see huddled masses just
    go over to palisades park, on a day like today and see all the illegals on the streets.

    hundreds

  65. Mr Hyde says:

    Shore,

    I am aware the issue is far reaching. If we actually locked down illegal immigration Mexico would lose a massive amount of money, as remittances from illegal immigrants in the US are their #1 source of foreign income, larger then their oil revenues (as of 2003 data). as of 2003 remittances were $18 billion.

    However, if we actually enforced draconian penalties for employing illegal labor and change the definition of “united states person” to exclude anchor babies, we would go a long way in removing the incentive

  66. John says:

    “offer green cards to keep high-skilled foreign university graduates

    Screw that!!!! Look at top notch state university Medical Schools like Stonybrook. All foreigners who don’t give a dam about medicine in it for the money who did not chip a in a dime in New York taxes to pay for it. The kids born and raised on Long Island can’t go to Stony Brook. Those are kids who might be interested in medicine, not do it for the money and open a practice nearby. The foreigners claim they have all the skill sets so we must keep them, that is BS you block people like me from getting that degree then you claim you need extra privledges and breaks from me cause you have the degree. Get the hell out.

  67. Anon E. Moose says:

    “All person born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United Stataes and of the state wherein they reside.” U.S. Const., Amdt. XIV

    Perhaps Congress (with the blessing of the Court, nach) could play around with who is “subject to the jurisdiction”, but that is some difficult language to avoid in circumventing birthright citizenship.

  68. Mr Hyde says:

    Shore,

    when are you going to run for office, I’ll be the first in line at your rally

  69. Mr Hyde says:

    Moose 71

    In the end we dont have to. Just aggressively enforce existing laws. You either take the child with you or the child is given to protective services and the illegal parents are deported.

  70. NJGator says:

    John 71 – And I’m assuming, of course, that your specialty would be OB-GYN?

  71. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Number one problem facing education in this country has been teachers unions. They reward incompetence and instill that “whether I work hard or don’t give a sh*t it all pays the same” attitude. Moreover they make it nearly impossible to fire anybody. They have way too much power.

  72. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “The kids born and raised on Long Island can’t go to Stony Brook.’

    What do you care? I thought you are from Belmar?

  73. NJGator says:

    State workers march across N.J. to protest Christie’s budget cuts

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/state_workers_march_across_nj.html

  74. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [6] yo’me

    The rating agencies (e.g., Transunion, Experian) offer programs that may permit that. They also offer notification services, but these may be for a fee.

    At a minimum, you can also flag your own accounts with a “fraud alert.” Nice thing about that is that it cuts down on solicitations and junk mail. But don’t do it if you want to apply for credit.

    Early on, I made the mistake of closing accounts left and right, although I wasn’t hurt because I had opened new ones. But when I closed one, I always asked for a notation “Closed at customer’s request.”

  75. veto that says:

    20 Reasons Why The U.S. Economy Is Dying And Is Simply Not Going To Recover

    http://www.businessinsider.com/20-reasons-why-the-us-economy-is-dying-and-is-simply-not-going-to-recover-2010-2

  76. Mr Hyde says:

    Veto

    are you bipolar?

    20 Reasons Why The U.S. Economy Is Dying And Is Simply Not Going To Recover

    20 Reasons To Be Wildly Optimistic About The Economy

  77. John says:

    Citigroup yesterday is calling for huge earnings at JP Morgan in 2012. BOOYAAA

    Strong Fundamentals — JP Morgan is one of the strongest, if not the strongest,
    banks in our coverage universe, in our view. The company could generate
    normalized earnings in the $22-$24 billion range in 2012, we believe, based on earnings estimates prepared by our equity research colleagues.

  78. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [78] gator,

    Darn. Wish I knew in advance, then I could have gone and heckled them.

    Yeah, I’d risk being beaten up, but then I could go on Fox to be interviewed (anonymously of course): the “union thugs” and “death threats” headlines would be worth it.

  79. veto that says:

    “All person born or naturalized in the United States.”

    Moose. Naturalization is the acquisition of citizenship or nationality by somebody who was not a citizen or national of that country when he or she was born.

  80. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [81] ket

    By that standard, CNBC is bipolar.

  81. John says:

    The kids in Belmar have to star in Reality TV shows as Acknod Shah’s kids have taken all the spots at Rutgers.

    Dissident HEHEHE says:
    March 19, 2010 at 10:02 am
    “The kids born and raised on Long Island can’t go to Stony Brook.’

    What do you care? I thought you are from Belmar?

  82. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Doom, 39

    That’d be me.. :) Only it’d be Johnny Blue…

    sl

  83. Shore Guy says:

    “If we actually locked down illegal immigration Mexico would lose a massive amount of money”

    That is pretty much their problem. Mexico needs to fix itself. It was given a grand opportunity with the discovery of oil, and it has squandered the chance. It got another opportunity with the rise of tourism, but seems poised to squander that as well. We have enough issues to clean up here at home, we can’t let Mexico’s internal problems drive our immigration/law-enforcement policies.

  84. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [84] veto

    I don’t think that was Moose’s point, and I think he is onto something.

    But there is likely precedent that says “born” is what it means. Further, if you are here, you are subject to the jurisdiction of our government, so as enticing as that is, Moose, I don’t think it works.

    So anchor babies will continue to be anchor babies.

    Still, I suppose if you want to get tough on the anchor baby problem, you can tell the parent, well the kid can stay but you can’t. The parent has the right to take JR. with, but not the right to stay here with. That forces the parent to decide to take the kid or terminate parental rights.

    Another solution: Convene a constitutional convention. Then Clot will get his wish for open warfare because the entire document will be up for revision.

  85. Painhrtz says:

    FROm the NJO article these two snippets tell you all you need to know

    Though organizers were hoping thousands would attend the protests, the Newark rally drew about three dozen, the same as in Paterson. About 20 showed up in Hackensack, according to reports.

    Even so, Bob Master of CWA District 1, which includes New Jersey, said the outcry was a success.

    “We were doing many, many worksites,” Master said.

    “They are dismantling our entire profession,” said Sue Rusciano, an English teacher at Saddle Brook High School. “We’re not paid that much. One of the reasons people go into education is at the very least we don’t have to worry about benefits and retirement.”

    Isaac Garcia Jr., a clerk typist for seven years who earns $33,100, took aim at proposed cuts that he said will translate into cuts in education.

    “Who’s going to suffer? The kids,” he said. “Overcrowded classrooms. That’s the last place you should hit.”

    Carol Englund, a 57-year-old family service worker, said she just lost her husband and lives in a small two-bedroom house in Bloomfield with an $8,000 property tax bill. “I’m struggling right now just to make ends,” she said.

    As for Weiner, he took a jab at a $1 billion tax cut for families who earn more than $400,000, the richest 2 percent. “If you earn $400,000 and above, Christie has given you a tax cut and foisted his tax increases on the backs of the rest of us,” he said.

  86. Mr Hyde says:

    Shore 88

    I’m saying we should worry about mexico stepping in their own mess. I am simply pointing out that there are certainly “unintended consequences” that would occur.

    Such a drop in revenue and a flood of poor illegals back to Mexico could very possibly destabilize the country. I still say do it. But we should be aware of what the blow back is going to be.

  87. Mr Hyde says:

    Pain
    Tax the rich, not me!!! …er tax those RICHER then me!

  88. Mr Hyde says:

    I’m saying we should worry about mexico stepping in their own mess -> I’m NOT saying

  89. Shore Guy says:

    Ket,

    Mexico had a revolution about 90 years ago and it created the current mess. Perhaps they need another one. People appreciate what they have when they need to fight to achieve it.

    If Mexican gallows were filled with the corpses of corrupt officials, perhaps a stable Mexico would emerge. Whatever the tumult, I suspect that a few fighter units, air cav squadrons, and divisions of Marines could keep the nastiness from spilling over across the border. Might we need to occupy some northern Mexican states, als Pershing in 1916? Perhaps. That said, we would get better results and more direct benefits from that than we will from occupying Iraq.

  90. Painhrtz says:

    dimwits from that article

    RUSCIANO, SUSAN, SADDLE BROOK BD OF ED $69,546 $69,546 12/7

    ALLEN, MELVIN, E MOUNTAINVIEW YOUTH CORR. FAC. $59,097 $59,097 05/10

    GARCIA, ISAAC, ESSEX COUNTY $31,957 $31,957 06/5

    ENGLUND, CAROL, ESSEX COUNTY $60,969 $60,969 32/2

    I don’t feel sorry for a single one of you.

    Sue you make 70K a year for a 180 days worth of work, 245 for the rest of us more often that not for less.

    Melvin you make 60K a year to babysit juvenille criminals

    Isaac your a secretary, sorry life didn’t work out for you but at least you have a job but 30K a year is pretty fukcin good for a SECRETARY!!

    Carol sweet Carol, if you can’t afford 8K a year in property taxes on 60K then you have problems budgeting. I bet you drive a mercedes leased at 700 bucks a month. I thought social services was about helping people.

  91. Mr Hyde says:

    Shore Guy 2012!

  92. The Poet says:

    I did not complain when they taxed the Billionaires into the poor house, for I was not a billionaire.

    Then, I did not complain when they taxed the millionaires into the poor house, for I was not a millionaire.

    Then I did not complain when they taxed the moneygrubbing rich SOBs who earn over $200k a year, for I was not one.

    You know the rest.

  93. Mr Hyde says:

    Shore,

    we could probably hire the drug cartels to run border security cheaper then we could blackwater. Globalization baby!!!

  94. veto that says:

    nom, now that i re-read 72, im not sure what moose meant.

  95. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [18] clot

    “I’m really beginning to warm to this guy, Christie”

    Well then, I suggest you let him know.

    I plan to. The spouse and I plan to write to him to let him know of our support.

    And I intend to send a copy to Lesniak, and all the other Assembly and senate tools that plan to fight him.

    Of course, on the legsilative copies, I will black out my name and address, to prevent union goon squad retribution.

    In fact, here’s an offer NJREReport readers: Anyone who wants to send letters of full-throated support to Christie, and have redacted copies sent to Comrade Lesniak and the other state apparatchiki, let me know. I will happily take original letters, package them, and send the originals to Christie in such a way that they do not become public records. I will then send name-and-address-redacted copies to the clowns in our leadership, with a certification regarding their authenticity, and a terse explanation for the redactions.

  96. Mr Hyde says:

    Bernanke caught lying under oath.

    can we prosecute someone already?

    Securities and Exchange Commission and Federal Reserve officials were warned by a leading Wall Street rival that Lehman Brothers was incorrectly calculating a key measure of its financial health months before its collapse in 2008, people familiar with the matter say.
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cb971b38-32d6-11df-a767-00144feabdc0.html

    During congressional testimony, House Financial Services Committee Ranking Member Spencer Bachus asked if the Fed was aware of Lehman’s “accounting gimmicks.”

    “We did not have that information,” Bernanke replied. The Fed “had only a couple people in the company to make sure” Lehman repaid money it borrowed from the central bank’s primary lender credit facility, he said.

  97. Shore Guy says:

    As I have said a few times, watching the people we have elected continually fail to exercise good judgment, and allow the state and national governments slip off into a deep hole of debt, makes it very difficult to NOT run. I have no particular desire to be in congress but, EGADS! I know that I have more to offer than many of the people we send there. The problem, though, is that we elect these folks because we the people like to be lied to and we do not like to hear the truth. The election of Christie is the first real chink in that pattern.

  98. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [100] veto,

    I understood it. I just don’t think it is a winnable argument.

  99. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    OT ALERT:

    Now this explains a lot . . .

    “A sense of impending doom is a common feeling for many attorneys in practice: From the mistake made when drafting a document or taking a deposition to a transgression that you may not even be aware of yet, there’s always something lurking in your consciousness to produce a feeling of being “in trouble.”

    For him personally, writes Will Meyerhofer, a former BigLaw associate who now works as a psychotherapist, “it got to the point for me, at Sullivan & Cromwell, that I felt my entire body clench in preparation for attack just walking through the doors of 125 Broad Street and stepping into that elevator.” His post, however, indicates that law practice, in general, rather than any particular law firm, is the cause of such stress.

    Such feelings of constant anxiety, he says in a People’s Therapist post, can rise to the level of a diagnosable case of post-traumatic stress disorder, which is characterized by a state of hyper-vigilance to potential attack, a deadening of emotions and flashbacks or nightmares concerning stressful situations. . . .”

    That would explain a lot of behavior in the partner ranks here!!!!!!!

  100. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [103] shore

    You just doomed your chances.

    You demonstrated that you are overqualified for the position.

  101. relo says:

    90: According to numbers I read, Paterson school system lost 5% off their p/y allotment of over $400MM. BC, in it’s entirety, was allocated $249MM last year and will lose 40%.

    As an aside, I had a neighbor who went to Eastside during the Joe Clark transition. Man, did he have some stories.

  102. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [100] veto

    I see now that Moose was responding to an earlier post about anchor babies, and I agree with Moose that we can’t do much about the babies themselves–if they are born here, they are citizens.

  103. relo says:

    101: In.

  104. Painhrtz says:

    Nom count me in do you want it on card stock?

  105. veto that says:

    Dick Bove: Housing Market Will Fall 10%-15% When Fed Stops Subsidizing Home Prices

    Mar 19, 2010

    On March 31, the Fed says, it will stop buying mortgage-backed securities.

    So what will happen to mortgage rates and house prices?

    No one knows what mortgage rates would be if the Fed weren’t subsidizing them. No one knows where house prices would be if the Treasury and other government agencies weren’t modifying mortgages and trying to bail homeowners out. No one knows what would happen if taxpayers weren’t funding tens of billions of dollars of losses at bankrupt Fannie and Freddie to provide yet another housing subsidy.

    Even if the Fed stops buying mortgage-backed securities at the end of March, Bove says, some of the impact of the subsidy will still be felt through June. Also, for a while at least, Fannie and Freddie will continue to buy mortgages. So there won’t likely be a sudden change to the housing market or mortgage rates.

    Over the longer term, though, we’ll begin to find out where house prices would be if the housing market were less subsidized. And Dick Bove expects that that level is 10%-15% below today’s prices

  106. Mr Hyde says:

    Nom,

    In as well

  107. House Hunter says:

    #13 Hyde, in terms of Christie’s budget analysis, NJ actually “borrowed” money to cut the property rebate checks. Even worse than raising taxes to pay for it.

  108. NJGator says:

    Pain 97 – Isaac is not a secretary. He’s a clerk typist. The secretaries are actually paid more.

    BTW – I think the only requirement for the clerk typist job is the ability to type 25WPM. We are paying people to type who don’t even have to have the ability to type well. Secretaries, on the other hand, are required to type 40WMP or more.

  109. Painhrtz says:

    Gator, I stand corrected, Isaac then is lucky to have employment since his qualifications are a step above walmart greeter

  110. Essex says:

    TRULY. TRULY WE HAVE BECOME.
    HATED AND FEARED FOR SOMETHING WE DON’T WANT.
    LISTEN. LISTEN!
    MOST OF US BELIEVE THAT THIS IS WRONG.

  111. goonsquad says:

    My sister in law is looking to buy a cheap used car ($5-6k or less). Any recommendations for web search engines? I’ll want to convince her to buy a toyota or honda for the sake of reliability, but I think hyundai has also made great strides in reliability.

  112. NJGator says:

    Pain 116 – Here’s the job posting for entry level judiciary clerical postions.

    Did someone ever think about how many less clerks we would need if we actually required those we hired to have decent skills?

    http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/jobs/j081023a.pdf

  113. Chaotic Child says:

    Gator @ 31

    How did you get the Siamese Cape’s info. I am interested in this type of info.

    I live that area. I hope it would be a fair market price “today” for a cape.

    CC

  114. NJGator says:

    BTW – Judiciary apparently didn’t get the memo. They’re still hiring.

    http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/jobs/index2.htm

  115. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    grim, a very relevant 120 in mod.

  116. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    pain, relo, hyde.

    email me to get particulars.

    nomdeplumenj@gmail.com

    I probably won’t reply until monday as I am pretty jammed up.

  117. veto that says:

    NEW YORK (AP) — Boeing will speed up production plans for its 777 and 747 models in anticipation of greater demand from commercial airlines in a couple of years.

    Most major airlines reported losses in 2009 as travel demand slumped. The aircraft maker said Friday that it sees the airline industry recovering this year, followed by a return to profitability in 2011. That should lead to demand for new aircraft in 2012 and beyond, the company said.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Boeing-speeds-up-production-apf-131151150.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=4&asset=&ccode=

  118. Painhrtz says:

    Gator – but that would mean an end to patronage if government jobs went to the qualified. We can’t have that.

    Nom that is OK I’m traveling until thursday so take your time

  119. NJGator says:

    Baristaville Towns & Schools Clobbered By State Aid Cuts

    Governor Christie yesterday revealed exactly how much each municipality will lose as a result of his $275 million slashing of state aid. NJ.com has all the results. In Essex County, Livingston topped the list of biggest losers, Glen Ridge tied with Roseland for second highest at 23.5%, Montclair ranked fifth highest at 22%. Bloomfield lost 17.4% in municipal aid. Glen Ridge School District lost 100% of its funding, Bloomfield Schools are down $4 million. Montclair Schools were notified Wednesday that funding has been reduced by 60.1%, or $5.4 million.

    Bloomfield Mayor Ray McCarthy’s reaction was one of outrage. He told Baristanet: “Governor Christie has just broken the back of the middle class. It’s insanity! How can he cut our town budget 17.4% and leave a billion dollars on the table for the wealthy? This is a bully in a schoolyard fight. The Mayors of the state have to fight back. I’m outraged he’s hired 11,300 new employees, while Bloomfield is short six fireman, 10 cops. This is just going to hurt the taxpayers.”

    During an interview with the editor of the Star Ledger, Christie preached tough love, saying the cuts will force school districts to choose between “givebacks or layoffs,” referring to New Jersey Education Association’s union as the “800-pound gorilla.” Christie said he’s determined to fix the problem, or go down trying.

    Glen Ridge was one of 59 school districts statewide to see its state aid vanish completely for school year 2010/2011. That means the district budget is down $1.2 million. A statement from the borough released yesterday states “Every attempt will be made to find cost savings in a manner that will result in the least harm to our core programs; but there is no doubt that the plan will include painful budget reductions and even more painful lay-offs…We have been dealt a very hard blow, but we will do everything possible to mitigate its effects. Our core educational mission will be protected.” The town further stated it is in the process of negotiating a new contract with the GREA (teachers’ union) for 2010-2013. More on this story, here.

    The Bloomfield Public Schools will take a $4 million hit to its budget, and the district has notified all tenured and non-tenured administration building staff that layoffs are possible Superintendent Catherine Mozak told NorthJersey.com ” All administrators, supervisors, managers and secretaries are on notice…It’s devastating on the personal level, it’s devastating on the economic level…things are not going to be the same.”

    We asked Montclair officials to comment on the budget cuts; Dr. Alvarez was in meetings this morning, but in a letter being sent to parents, he says programs, services, and staff will have to be eliminated. We did get a statement from Councilor Cary Africk:

    While no one knew a year ago what a horrible situation we would be in, a year ago September the market came tumbling down and it wasn’t hard to see that tough times were ahead.
    At that time, the Board of Education introduced a budget that contained raises for all staff — from senior administrators to clerical staff and janitors. They said at the time that excellent education — such as that in Montclair — costs money and now wasn’t the time to cut back. The Board of School Estimate eagerly supported them.

    At the same time ground was broken at the new school.

    I’m no clairvoyant but I did publicly make the suggestion of 1) freezing at least administrative salaries and 2) investigating whether we could put a hold on the new school, at a time when ground hadn’t even been broken. No one supported my proposals.

    Not two months ago the entire Council, other than Councilor Baskerville and myself, was going full steam ahead on a new “intergenerational facility.” Even if we to ignore capital costs, it was expected to add at least $350,000 to our operating budget.

    Not two months ago our parking authority announced a substantial shortfall in revenue. I asked for a complete analysis but others said we didn’t need it, we might as well write off the debt.

    The depth of the cuts for Montclair is deep. The Board of Education has stepped up to the plate and made hard, but needed suggestions for change. It is likely the Town will do similar. But in the last year we could have, at least, recognized the opportunities to mitigate the damages by paying more attention. Perhaps now the idea of planning and analysis will appear less radical.

    It’s just good business.

    Montclair Board of Ed meets this Monday, March 22, at 7:30 pm.

    http://www.baristanet.com/2010/03/ouch_1.php#comment-461250

  120. John says:

    Dick Bove counts his shit every morning, one piece buy banks, two piece sell banks and three piece RE values are falling.

    When can we get back to talking about something important like me me me?

  121. Mr Hyde says:

    veto 124

    time to short boeing. On a related note, it will be interesting to see how much backlash there is the first time a 787 has a composite structural failure in flight and drops parts.

    Hunter 113

    Sorry, will try not to be so optimistic in the future

  122. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Gator:

    Good article. These mayors and school board people have nothing to cry about. No way they should hve been caught so off guard by this recession.

    I know a Bloomfield fireman. He is doing just fine. Trust me, most of this is political grandstanding.

  123. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    John:

    Someone should go back and count the number of employers Dick Bove has worked for in the past 5 years. I swear it must be at least 10.

    So you got any more onion or maybe a new cucumber story to tell us????

  124. NJGator says:

    All Hype – We are a bit prone to drama in our area. After all, our mayor is going to market us to the Chinese as a “creative class” town.

  125. veto that says:

    Hyde, its not a good idea and the second part of that sentance will never happen.

  126. leftwing says:

    BamaCare

    Dean on CNBC makes the comment that taking passive income tax rates from 15% to 23.8% doesn’t “make any difference at all” to those affected. Love how liberals like to spend my money and tell me it’s no big deal. If it doesn’t matter a$$wipe, let me keep the 9 percentage points and you dig in YOUR pocket to fund your wishlist.

    How you doing Clot? Must feel good to build a business, go out on the limb financially for your employees as you’ve told us here, in the process be villified for even attempting to make a buck over $250k, and then have the hard work you put in to building your asset’s value stripped from you at sale.

    But, hey, DNC says it “doesn’t make any difference at all”.

    Sell now, save 9%.

  127. sas says:

    I should run for office. back in my day, I was great at “clean ups”.

    SAS

  128. plg says:

    So I see you all are concerned about taxing the wealthy.

    The several hundred dollar/year tax on each NJ Transit rider doesn’t concern you? For the average train rider the increase is about 500/year, which is far higher than even the typical property tax hike.

    How about the impending tuition hikes at Rutgers and other State colleges? That is going to amount to hundreds, perhaps thousands of dollars per year for the average student.

    Are you concerned about those taxes on the poor and middle class? Or are you just concerned about the tax on those making over 400K per year?

    Just curious.

  129. WickedOrange says:

    Hipsters on food stamps

    They’re young, they’re broke, and they pay for organic salmon with government subsidies. Got a problem with that?

    http://www.salon.com/life/pinched/2010/03/15/hipsters_food_stamps_pinched

  130. leftwing says:

    Kudlow was interviewing Dean.

    Hard to figure out which one was more stomach churning.

    Every time I see Kudlow I can’t help but think he has some buttless leather chaps and whips tucked away in hotel drawers in DC for use with some young pages. That stupid little grin really skeeves me out.

    Wound way too tightly and too perfectly coifed. Like a bad Southern preacher, these people usually self implode (thankfully).

  131. Jamal Van Jones says:

    For the average train rider the increase is about 500/year, which is far higher than even the typical property tax hike.

    Fcuking soci@list pig! Execute this m’fer! Burn him at the stake.

    Jamil, mom says lunch has been served.

  132. Mr Hyde says:

    Veto 132

    i have no position on boeing. i just disagree with their forcast. my 2 cents as a highschool janitor.

    I do think a catastrophic failure of the newer composite designs is possible due to poor maintenance or lack of diligence. Composites go from being structurally sound to catastrophic failure with little in between.

    its a newer application of the tech and will have a “learning” moment at some point in time.

  133. Mr Hyde says:

    plg

    college bubble! go to trade school

  134. plg says:

    Hyde,

    So I take it your answer is that you just defend against tax hikes on the wealthy. Tax hikes on the poor and middle class are just fine.

  135. Mr Hyde says:

    Veto,

    Boeing also does great as a war profiteer, so their prospects are looking up.

  136. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Gator:

    I live in Montcalir too but I rent. It will be interesting as I grab the popcorn and watch the show unfold in town.

  137. veto that says:

    hyde, no position on boeing either.

    my guess is that they know how to build an airplane that doesnt crumple in mid flight.

    But thats just a guess on my part.

  138. Painhrtz says:

    Hyde and that is why I have no desire to get on a 787, Every Passenger aircraft that has ever had large windows usually suffers from some form of structural deficiency. See DeHavilland Comet.

    although the composite components used in the 787 are the same as those in the Stealth bomber, hope they don’t get it wet.

  139. Mr Hyde says:

    plg

    yes, only those making less then 100K/yr should be taxed. They should also be required to work a minimum of 80hrs per week since they represent all of the economic dead weight.

    As a matter of fact you should be required to be within the 95 percentile for income in order to run for public office.

  140. Libtard says:

    PLG,

    Your arguments are sound, but unfortunately both parties cater to their largest campaign contributors. Republicans tend to raise taxes less on their wealthier contributors then the Dems do as they stand do lose more. Sorry if I am stating the obvious, but had any of the prior governors, most of whom were Dems, paid any attention to the impending budget mess, then the hidden taxes which are unfairly impacting the middle class might not have been the only available solution. You can’t blame CC any more for not socking it to the rich then to blame Corzine for not socking it to the rich. One thing is certain, if Corzine socked the rich, he might still be in office. If CC does, he will be a one-termer.

    Now Nom, I would hold off on writing your letters just yet. Corzine sounded a lot like the fat man in his first budget deliberations. Then the Assembly ripped him apart. I would wait to see what passes before wasting your stamps and your gratitude.

    I will gladly join your crusade to idolize CC when and only when I see the following things occur.

    1. My local property taxes not make up the difference in the shortfall in the state revenue coffers.

    2. The end of Union salary arbitration.

    3. A change to the unsustainable benefits of the unionized government workers benefits package and not just to new hires.

    4. A reduction in county government.

    5. A reduction in the size of higher education administrations as well as local school and municipal administrations.

    6. Less Republican rhetoric, more success in making NJ affordable.

    What I’ve heard so far sounds good. What I’ve seen so far is nothing. I’m gonna wait a few more months before I decide if its lip service or reality.

  141. skep-tic says:

    The Christie (intro):

    Twenty-ten
    Creepin while you sleepin
    Fattie with attitude? Nah loc,
    Fattie on a mutherf*ckin mission.

    What up teachers and teachettes?
    That crazy-*ss fattie’s back in the muthaf*ckin hizzouse
    The notorious Trenton G, C.C. on a solo tip
    F*ck the muthafoes.

    Droppin cheez whiz on yo *ss, be-otch
    GOP flava. Teachers that talk sh*t, get dealt with real quick.
    So if you wanna take a trip to the row,
    Let a fattie like Chris Christie know.

  142. plg says:

    Hyde,

    I agree, you know what NJ problem is that the poor are living too large. They aren’t paying enough to get to work, their college tuition is way too cheap and frankly our air is too clean so we should cut more clean energy. I will tell you the air could use a little more pollution, so lets keep the gas tax low so more people drive. I am sick of all this clean air.

    What really concerns me is that the Wall Street bankers get to keep their record bonuses. I mean taxing them is un-american. It is just a government plot to control the people. Those bankers are just more talented, better capitalists, they deserve all that money. The real problem are the poor who continue to live in the lap of luxury.

    I get it.

  143. Mr Hyde says:

    Veto,

    I have no doubt boeing can build a good plane. The issue with composites is that composite components develop micro stress fractures over time, but unlike metals, if you get 1 too many nucleation sites you can get an almost instantaneous structural failure of the component,whether its a wing, a tail or something else. There is little warning that a composite component is close to structural failure unless you look at it on the microscopic scale. It gets even better in that the nucleation sites could be buried deep in a component that you cannot visually inspect.

    They are currently addressing this by trying to develop technology to provide early detection of fatigue in composites, but it is new to civilian plane construction.

    Pain,

    I want boeing to go commercial with their flying wing designs.

  144. Chaotic Child says:

    Gator @122….thank you.

    How can i get these info on my own. I can’t find the same info in gsmls.com

    The info from gsmls don’t have DOM or OLP.
    Do i need to be a realtor???

    Thanks again.

  145. Happy Daze says:

    144 veto

    Boeing is still on a learning curve with this technology shift.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704576204574531651711236212.html

  146. Mr Hyde says:

    plg 149

    FINALLY! Something we agree on!

  147. Mr Hyde says:

    Pain,

    i want to see this commercialized:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-48

  148. NJGator says:

    Chaotic Child – Yes, you need a realtor to send this to you. Any realtor with GSMLS access should be able to set you up with a daily/weekly/monthly listings email.

  149. leftwing says:

    Re: 135

    Troll

    Reset the clock.

    You keep what you earn.

    From that, the governement takes only what is necessary to provide certain very limited functions and only at the most basic level.

    Defense (self, not the world’s police force), infrastructure (which doesn’t include bridges to nowhere or bike shacks), education (to become a functioning member of society, which does not require $18k per head in Newark).

    There should be a social safety net for the truly destitute that provides short term assistance for the basics – food, healthcare. Long term, work for it, or work for the government to continue to receive the good graces of your fellow citizens keeping you alive. What’s that, popped out five kids before age 24 and what do you do with them if you’re forced to work for a living? Here’s a really radical idea. Since you libs like means testing so much, how about we means test for a having a child? Can’t afford one, can’t have one. Can’t afford one, have one, and need assistance? There is a shortgae of good families looking for adoptions.

    Appalling? I’m equally appalled that you think I have an obligation to support your entire family simply because you can draw air and push another being down your birth canal.

    Keep your grubby hands off my money. My wealth is not digits on a statement, it is the cumulation of how I’ve lived my life. And I didn’t miss numerous holidays, school plays, anniveraries, and other events important to me to support your wants and desires. I am not in your servitude, a$$hole.

  150. plg says:

    Yes, its the poor who take advantage of the system, not bankers.

    Its not like Goldman Sachs paid themselves huge bonuses with taxpayer money after hijacking the system. Its the poor guy who get on taxpayer subsidized NJ transit everyday to go to work that is our real problem. The fatso in his cadillac escalade on Rt 287 is going to work the American Way, guzzling gas and polluting the air. That poor sap on the bus needs to pay more.

    What we need to make sure is that the banker coming out of goldman sachs in a luxury SUV has good, cheap roads to drive on and all his money in offshore accounts protected from taxation. The real freeloader is the kid going to Rutgers to get a degree. That kid is getting a free ride with that Bankers tax money.

    We are on the same page Hyde.

  151. sastry says:

    Plg, wrong forum to address middle class tax hikes!

    Edwards proposal of lifting ss tax cap and removing distinction on “earned” vd “unearned” income would be good starts.

    Right now, there is a “hard work penalty”. A couple making 100k each pay more taxes than a couple where the worker hubby gets 200k and wife doesn’t work.

  152. House Whine says:

    plg and Hyde: I do find it ironic that the title of today’s subject is “Shared Sacrifice”. Apparently, a lot us don’t want to share OR sacrifice. There’s way too much finger-pointing and divisiveness, both in NJ and in our country in general. I don’t think it’s healthy.

  153. Libtard says:

    PLG/Hyde:

    We do best when the Dem in power is not too liberal. We do best when the Rep in power is not too conservative.

    NJ had one of the most liberal jack @sses in power who did nothing to diminish the blow. Now we have a conservative in power who will swing the pendulum too far in the other direction.

    You must blame both of them equally.

    Me thinks that if Cody had been able to run, he would have won in a landslide against the fat man.

    What I doubt though, is if he would have dealt with the financial crisis.

    I suppose what our biggest worry should be is whether or not truly balancing the budget is the way to go. Certainly some states will utilize financial trickery to maintain the bloated size of their government and it is very possible that the Feds will bail them out. Meanwhile, NJ will have made the necessary sacrifice to avoid the fed bailout.

    Sort of like how the suckers who continue to pay their mortgages are being punished by paying for the bailouts of the intelligent ones among us who gamed the system.

  154. Mr Hyde says:

    Leftwing…

    ooohhhh…. I need a cold shower now!

  155. Mr Hyde says:

    Whine 159

    “Shared Sacrifice”

    I am fine with this as long as all parties uphold their end of the social contract. And note that my household falls below the 200K “rich” boundary.

    I have issue with the john rawls philosophy that has apparently taken over american politicis.

  156. Anon E. Moose says:

    Hyde, Nom;

    Yes, my point was that any attempt to prevent the anchor babies from being citizens runs into a fairly solid brick wall of the 14th Amendment.

    The “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” is what exempts diplomats’ kids; when they are here under diplomatic immunity they are not subject to US jurisdiction.

    If congress were to pass a law that holds illegal immigrants are not “subject to the jurisdiction” of the US, meaning our only option is to deport them, in which case their babies are not citizens. Then they also couldn’t be tried by our courts for crimes committed here. I don’t like that scenario.

    I also don’t think that depoting the parent means they have to terminate their parental rights – hypothetically they could leave the kid here – with a legal resident or citizen (maybe a relative) who will care for the child, or as a last resport to an orphanage (make the parent pay the tab if they ever want to return to the US).

  157. House Hunter says:

    From CNBC:
    Do you support President Obama’s plan to overhaul American health care? 12,533 responses

    Yes 25%
    No 75%
    Not a Scientific Survey. Results may not total 100% due to rounding.

  158. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nom[154];

    The flying wing has stabilty problems. The B-2 would not be able to fly without computers. It’s been tried for decades, but I doubt it will be commercialized.

  159. leftwing says:

    Hyde

    Yeah, I’ve got a real h@rdon today for the handout crowd.

    IRS wants me in tax court to resolve $8k of difference from 2007, which is a preposterous proposition given the costs. And even more ridiculous given from where the discrepancy comes.

    You know, it’s not just that they take my life and piss it away that bothers me, it’s that they make me perform like a show pony for the privilege of them doing so. All while painting me as the bad guy as I fund them.

    Saw the Great One’s college press conference on health care. Did you ever notice how long and slim his fingers are? Pickpocket-in-Chief.

  160. Painhrtz says:

    Moose actually most of the newer comercial jets are fly by wire. so that should not present a problem. the problems are two fold emergency egress and passenger “comfort” People like windows. I personally don’t care about them, I have already seen most of the world from the air and would rather fly comfortably. Athough thunderstorms over the midwest from 36K feet are really fukcin cool at night.

    Hyde lifting bodies are the future of aviation but they may never see the light of day on the commercial side. At least until the public gets comfortable not looking out of a window.

  161. Shore Guy says:

    Now for a little something different (via an ASCAP Newsletter):

    Bruno Mars and Phillip Lawrence the songwriting duo behind the hit song, “Nothing on You” by B.o.B. talk to “On the Come Up” about their growing success.

    What was your inspiration for “Nothing on You?”

    Bruno and Phillip: Honestly, at the time, we were both having some relationship issues and really wanted to express a point to our girls. We wanted to show an honest portrayal that, although there are beautiful girls all over the world, they have nothing on them. Originally, the song was called, “We Don’t Love Dem Hoes. Please Believe Me!!” Haha! But, I don’t think radio would’ve played that.

  162. leftwing says:

    GO BIG RED!!!!!

  163. Final Doom says:

    left (133)-

    And people think I’m joking when I talk about voting with a bullet.

    When it finally gets to the point of no return, everybody around me better duck.

    “How you doing Clot? Must feel good to build a business, go out on the limb financially for your employees as you’ve told us here, in the process be villified for even attempting to make a buck over $250k, and then have the hard work you put in to building your asset’s value stripped from you at sale.

    But, hey, DNC says it “doesn’t make any difference at all”.

  164. Final Doom says:

    sas (134)-

    Like Harvey Keitel in Pulp Fiction, I bet.

    “…back in my day, I was great at “clean ups”.”

  165. Final Doom says:

    plg (141)-

    The poor don’t pay enough in taxes.

  166. skep-tic says:

    some people don’t understand the concept of private property. arguing that the cutting of a benefit is the same as tax increase assumes that citizens’ wealth is collective property. it is not.

  167. Final Doom says:

    whine (159)-

    As a small business owner, I have been doing the “share and sacrifice” thing for close to ten years.

    Well, now I’m done. Besides, my sphincter hurts.

  168. Painhrtz says:

    PLG Want to know what is sad if the the poor, all around this country paid even 50 cents a day in taxes we wouldn’t be in this mess. Getiing a refund when you haven’t paid any taxes is not taxation,. It’s a subsidy.

    Don’t pull that consumption tax BS. We all pay it.

  169. SirRentsalot says:

    Any of the resident realtors want to post the history of this “new” listing? It should be quite funny (1108 Heckel Drive in Mountainside).

    My former landlords!

  170. SirRentsalot says:

    What a hovel!

  171. Final Doom says:

    rent (178)-

    Nice trailer.

  172. still_looking aka Tan-Less says:

    Wasn’t it just under 300 yrs ago folks rose up to start a new country that released them from the slavery of taxation and the oppression of having other’s religions imposed on them?

    My how far we’ve regressed… I long for the 1770’s…

    sl

  173. Juice Box says:

    Really killing it in Hoboken.

    A staggering $1.6 million dollar reduction – A “Will it Sell?” record!

    Cost today: $2,600,000
    Cost in November 2008: $4,200,000 (orig 4.35 mil!)

    http://hoboken411.com/archives/15077#more-15077

  174. SirRentsalot says:

    180 clot
    True, but you couldn’t get one up the driveway if you wanted to move. Can’t get a sedan up the drive if there are leaves on the ground.

  175. skep-tic says:

    so I have decided to drop out of the housing market for a month while all of the tax credit chasers run off the cliff. The market has gotten irrational and I would rather not compete with these people.

  176. Happy Daze says:

    Irrational exuberance strikes again?

  177. Libtard says:

    “Irrational exuberance strikes again?”

    Nope…just the transformation of FHA into Fannie Mac.

  178. skep-tic says:

    the market above the FHA limit is considerably slower. there are tons of first time buyers out looking below the limit though.

  179. leftwing says:

    BIG RED by 8 at the half!!!!!

  180. Fat B@stard says:

    In the past two days, Christie’s administration has announced proposed cuts of $123.2 million in aid to Bergen County towns.

    Big deal! We all know that the upper two thirds of Bergen County is just bleeding wealth.

  181. SG says:

    Email from School District:

    Dear Key Communicators

    As you know, we needed to reduce the 2010-2011 School Budget by $4.4M in the last few weeks, reflected as Tier 1 and Tier 2 level cuts on the budget PowerPoint presentation. Tier 1 cuts were a result of reductions to 2009-2010 State Aid and Tier 2 cuts were based on the Governor’s clear statements several weeks ago that 2010-2011 State Aid would be reduced by 15%. On Wednesday we received notification from the Department of Education that 2010-2011 State Aid to BRRSD was reduced by 55%, not 15%. This meant that an additional $4.4M needed to be cut from the budget. The loss of programs, services, and personnel is severe and the quality of the school district has been undermined. The new Tier 3 cuts were presented at the March 18 Board meeting and the PowerPoint presentation can be viewed on the district website under Budget. The Board must now decide how the budget will be presented to the public on April 20; 4 options can be viewed in the same PowerPoint.

    We are all experiencing an intensity of emotions, ranging from shock to frustration to anger. Last year the public passed the school budget by the widest margin in 30 years. This year the Board and I wanted nothing more than to thank the public by presenting a budget that maintained all of the programs and services the community has come to value. We have been sorely disappointed that this could not be accomplished. And now, Wednesday’s news is devastating. Words alone cannot begin to express how sadly we feel for the staff, parents, and most of all, students of this district.

    One very important reminder is that no one in this district is to blame. We didn’t lose massive State Aid due to any actions of the teachers, support staff, administrators, parents, students, or Board of Education. We lost State Aid because of a decision at the state level to solve longstanding fiscal problems by making immediate and drastic cuts to public education.

    We must now remain positive and hope that voters will support the district and its children on April 20, averting the possibility of even deeper cuts. Only then can we begin the rebuilding process.

    Sincerely,

  182. SG says:

    On the opposing view,

    Tuesday evening, at the JFK School in Raritan, the board announced a second round of $2.4M in cuts, resulting in a total reduction of $4.4M so far. This drops the current proposed budget expenditures to $132.5M, a 0.51% reduction (one-half of one percent) from last year’s actual school expenditures of $133.2M.

    According to Michael Schilder and Peter Starrs this is the first time that there has been an expense reduction to total B-R school expenses since at least 1992/93.

    You might think that an expense budget lower than last year’s would result in a reduction to your real estate bill in Bridgewater and Raritan. But hold on. Your taxes are still going up. The total tax levy is increasing from last year’s $113.4M assessment to $117.9M, a 4% increase, the maximum permitted under New Jersey law. This means that your tax rate per $100 of assessed value will go up by 5.2% to $1.22 if you live in Bridgewater; and, by 3.3% to $1.27 if you live in Raritan.

  183. SG says:

    This is going to be ugly. I am having fun watching all this from sidelines.

  184. Outofstater says:

    #156 Amen! Bravo!

  185. John says:

    Since we all make well over 250K a year on this site I say it is about time the deadbeats chip in.

    Mr Hyde says:
    March 19, 2010 at 11:57 am
    plg

    yes, only those making less then 100K/yr should be taxed. They should also be required to work a minimum of 80hrs per week since they represent all of the economic dead weight.

    As a matter of fact you should be required to be within the 95 percentile for income in order to run for public office.

  186. RU says:

    Anon: #163 Way off base. You don’t need to be a citizen of the US to be prosecuted. Many illegal aliens are arrested, tried and convicted in criminal courts throughout the US. As far as diplomats, their immunity can be stripped as long as permission is granted by the U.S. State Dept.

  187. Painhrtz says:

    SG – Fukc them. Tell them to cut non-essentials school is for learning not parties, extracurricular activites and enriching the teachers union.

    For all of these bozo’s in the union crying about the children. 55% Unemployment in new college grads. Don’t think you can’t be replaced by a cheaper more energetic verison. albeit with less experience. But we only need a few of you for guidance.

  188. Juice Box says:

    Wife and I were debating last night to try for telecommuting at work. There is a good chance she can get it and I may be able to force my company’s hand if she has to “relocate” for her job.

    Relocation will be to a low tax state for sure. I was even thinking it would be nice to live in Boca for a while.

    The main requirement would be same time zone, although 1 hour different would not be too bad. We would rule out San Diego and Hawaii simply because of the time zone difference. I thought about the US Virgin islands too but the schools there aren’t the greatest.

    I am pretty serious about leaving this state for a while till things settle. I don’t plan on allowing the politicians pick my pocket that is for sure.

    Any recommendations?

  189. NJGator says:

    Governor to Cut 60% of Aid to Montclair

    For months, district administrators have been braced for a “worst-case scenario” while awaiting news about state funding for the 2010-11 school year. In Montclair as elsewhere, everyone knew the news would be bad — but until yesterday, no one knew just how bad.

    http://www.montclair.k12.nj.us/Article.aspx?Id=558

    Governor Christie’s March 16 address to the state Legislature finally made it clear: it would be worse than expected. For Montclair, it means a 60.1% reduction in state aid, totaling $5,488,485.

    “This will require unprecedented and devastating reductions for us,” Superintendent Alvarez said. “Our hopes of preserving much of what we value most are gone.”

    “Right now our priority is keeping teachers in the classroom,” he said after the governor’s speech. To that end, he and key administrators have spent long hours in meetings on Tuesday and Wednesday, seeking ways to keep as much of the district — staff, programs and all — as intact as possible.

    Exemplary, long-standing student programs are now expected to be excised from the budget. The Health & Wellness Partnership, IMANI, Project Oasis, and STARS after-school and summer enrichment are among the programs slated to be cut.

    “Such programs have added immeasurably to students’ academic advancement and well-being,” said Dr. Alvarez today. “Unfortunately, we are being asked to decide between classroom instructional needs and supplementary support programs.”

    Recent communications with the public — at Board and community meetings, on this website, and elsewhere — have acknowledged that staff layoffs will most likely be inevitable in 2010-11.

    Even in light of the Governor’s state aid announcement, Montclair’s Board and administrators maintain that calling on taxpayers to make up the shortfall next year “is not fair, or even feasible right now,” Dr. Alvarez said.

    Instead, he said, ”We are looking at some very harsh reductions to our budget — even harsher than we anticipated. That’s the reality this year.”

    Community members are encouraged to attend the next meeting of the Board of Education, where the draft budget for 2010-11 will be presented for the first time. Monday, March 22, 7:30 p.m., in the George Inness Annex atrium, 141 Park Street (parking behind the building on N. Fullerton).

  190. Fat B@stard says:

    15 year olds in the USA are ranked 18th in the industrialized world in Math and Science.

    57% of college entrants in the USA require remedial classes.

    Hey, what time is Americant Idle on?

  191. chicagofinance says:

    Barbara says:
    March 19, 2010 at 9:03 am
    three martinis…I never tried. I may need paramedics.

    The night I won over my father-in-law was when we took my m-i-l to a couple of places and then the bar at the Four Seasons on 57th Street. We walked out and she said “oh my” dropped to her knees and tossed her cookies in front of the doorman, who called security on us. I was white with fear and we went home. The following morning my father-in-law walks up to me, gives me a firm handshake and a huge wink. He said he was waiting for that night for 30 years.

  192. Painhrtz says:

    Hey Gator, Have Stu recommend to the board to start with football, hockey and lacrosse for starters. Then and administrator or five. A couple of non-essential personnel and you could keep those programs if they are really an educational necessity. Any place that charges an average of 18K a year for property taxes should not be forced to cut anything

  193. veto that says:

    I see both sides of todays debate. Yes, as a tax payer, of course im not happy about hemoraging buckets of money each year to a system that doesnt seem to appreciate it.

    But we have massive poor underclass living among us in this country and I dont buy the argument that claims its just because they are lazy. The fact is that they dont have a choice and we like it that way.

    For example, who here wants to volunteer to grow up in projects with no dad and crack addicted mom?
    (raise your hand)
    Lets see if there arent any glass ceilings there. And lets see how ‘smart’ and ‘hard working’ you turn out to be after you grow up in those circumstances where mommy tells you she ‘hates you’ and ‘school is for suckers’ on a regular basis.

    i highly doubt opportunity is equal in this country so the reason why uncle sam is always in our pocket is to compensate for that. At least thats the way it seems to me.

    we want the flat tax but at the same time we want to keep the undesireables cordined off in the projects where your children can’t see them.

    There is obviously bigger fundamental flaw in our system that is not being addressed and the venting about being taxed too heavily seems like one side of the story to me.

  194. chicagofinance says:

    clot appreciates posting “One day closer to oblivion.” … I like to say “one day closer to August 1st.”

    John says:
    March 19, 2010 at 9:49 am

    I can’t believe I am staying this. Does the stock market every go down?

    I say lets keep every smoking hot illegal female immigrant between 18 and 30 and send them all back.

    Go mow your own damm lawns you lazy bums and pay an extra buck for dinner at a restaurant so they can afford legal bus boys.

    Also would sold the teen age unemployment problem.

    Plus keeping hot 18-30 illegals gives the ugly nerdy rich guys a chance to marry a Hottie!!

    problem solved letsmove on.

  195. veto that says:

    fat b@st, you used the wrong ‘idol’. you must be part of that remedial problem. lol

  196. chicagofinance says:

    leftwing says:
    March 19, 2010 at 12:46 pm
    GO BIG RED!!!!!

    FCUKIN’ YEAH!

  197. skep-tic says:

    #202

    Veto– your argument would be great if the money actually made it to the hard up people for whom it is supposedly intended. the truth is that the government middlemen impose unconscionable transaction costs. they are the only ones who actually benefit from the current system. the taxpayers are screwed, the poor remain poor, helpless and dependent, which is exactly the result the beast wants since they can use them as justification for continually feeding them more.

  198. Painhrtz says:

    Veto grew up in Garfield with an amphetamine addicted mom (though I never heard she hated me but i did have a TV babysitter until I got a job at 14), lived with Grandparents and ate pasta for 3 weeks straight at a clip. Lets not forget the jacka$$es I had bullying me everyday for being smart.

    A college degree, graduate degree and a decent living throws your argument down the rabbit hole. While you could contend nature and environment reduce opportunity. I know plenty of examples on the other side who rose above their lack of nurturing environment to be successful. Water always finds its own level. People are the same. We all have the intrinsic tools to succeed but some do not have either the intelligence or motivation to grasp it.

  199. Outofstater says:

    Detroit In Ruins. Some might appreciate the commentary beginning at 11:21.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hhJ_49leBw&feature=fvw

  200. Hard Place says:

    John,

    Screw that!!!! Look at top notch state university Medical Schools like Stonybrook. All foreigners who don’t give a dam about medicine in it for the money who did not chip a in a dime in New York taxes to pay for it. The kids born and raised on Long Island can’t go to Stony Brook. Those are kids who might be interested in medicine, not do it for the money and open a practice nearby. The foreigners claim they have all the skill sets so we must keep them, that is BS you block people like me from getting that degree then you claim you need extra privledges and breaks from me cause you have the degree. Get the hell out.

    By your standards than a company like Google probably would have been formed in another country, as Sergey Brin was an immigrant who went to University of Maryland and Larry Page parent’s were immigrant professors at University of Michigan. This is the land of opportunity. You want an opportunity? Work hard, go earn it.

  201. Final Doom says:

    Juice (197)-

    Not unless you like tagging 77 y/o widow cougars.

    Eating dinner at 4:30 in the afternoon kinda blows, too.

    “I was even thinking it would be nice to live in Boca for a while.”

  202. veto that says:

    “your argument would be great if the money actually made it to the hard up people for whom it is supposedly intended. the taxpayers are screwed, the poor remain poor.”

    Ok skeptic, So then the problem is not that we are taxed too heavily but that our taxes are squandered?

    If so, im all for that. But then after we streamline the bloated, wasteful, corrupt system then should we either address the structural inequalities and bring taxes down for all? or expect to continue to pay more taxes for those inequalities?

  203. Painhrtz says:

    Another well to do burb whining about the budget cuts

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/88568177_Wyckoff_reeling_after_learning_state_aid_figures.html

    Any one else get the feeling Christie is trying to get the taxpayers to revolt against their local governemts? It would be a great way to force consolidation and property tax reform on the backs of voter discontent. Ah creative destruction at its’ finest

  204. Final Doom says:

    gator (198)-

    Amazing how creative a kid can get when you just hand him a can of Krylon and put him in front of a blank wall.

    “The Health & Wellness Partnership, IMANI, Project Oasis, and STARS after-school and summer enrichment are among the programs slated to be cut.”

  205. Final Doom says:

    chi (200)-

    Why? Did she die afterwards?

    “The following morning my father-in-law walks up to me, gives me a firm handshake and a huge wink. He said he was waiting for that night for 30 years.”

  206. House Whine says:

    162- Hyde- that is exactly what my point is. We all have to uphold the “social contract” and we all should be accountable and not look for ways to cheat.

  207. Outofstater says:

    Food. I draw the line at food. I can’t in good conscience let anyone go without food. Adult, child, illegal, criminal, no one should go hungry. That’s why food stamps don’t bother me although the organic salmon is a bit much but it has more nutrients than Doritos so those people will be healthier and need fewer medical services. Just a personal thing.

  208. veto that says:

    “A college degree, graduate degree and a decent living throws your argument down the rabbit hole.”

    Pain, im sorry you had to grow up like that.
    And the fact that you made incredible accomplishments coming from that disadvantage says a lot about you.

    Unfortunately, it doesnt say much of anything about the average of society as a whole because it is statistical fact that poorer communities experience lower salaries, higher rates of drug use, higher unemployment, higher crime, lower educational attainment, lower academic performance, etc. in sum, the lower on the socioeconomic food chain, the less opportunity. So its great that you did it, and yes there are some incredible success stories from those coming from adversity, but unfortunately most do not.

    Also, its not to say that anyone who grew up in cranford had a situation was automatically rigged to facilitate success. But on the average yes it is true.

  209. Final Doom says:

    I demand the entire Cornell team be tested for ster0ids.

  210. Final Doom says:

    Cornell vs Wisconsin: basketball as n@rcotics.

  211. Final Doom says:

    Forza Inter! Vaffunculo Juve!

  212. Mr Hyde says:

    Veto

    we want the flat tax but at the same time we want to keep the undesireables cordined off in the projects where your children can’t see them.

    Not sure where you get that from? I I havent seen that idea espoused here. And to be completely honest, virtually all societies segregate themselves regardless of their culture.

    How does a flat tax suddenly mix the populations of mendham and newark? Those with money and resources will always provide themselves and family with a nicer environment then someone living on government assistance. They only mix to any significant degree when forced to.

    We have massive levels of social engineering going on in the US that is a waste of time and money. Whats really frustrating is it is not about helping anyone, but about the consolidation of political power.

    Social engineering can work to degree, but i have not seen a successful example outside side of a homogeneous population such as scandanavia. heterogeneous populations do not tend to respond well to social engineering as the different cultures are incentivized to game the system as much as possible.

    Social safety net programs are great, but should e retooled.

    We will never see a flat tax, not because of the social aspects, but because it would remove a massive source of power out of the politicians hands.

  213. skep-tic says:

    veto– there is massive waste. reduce the waste and you can cut taxes and free up more funds for the poor and needy. look at the fed budget deficit for just this year. it works out to about $5,000 for every man, woman and child in the country. And this is just the deficit! and it doesn’t even count the budgets of state and local government. there is so much money flowing through government it is insane. we are getting hardly any value for this money.

  214. Mr Hyde says:

    veto 217

    You can only provide the tool, you hand success to anyone. We have handed the tools to places like newark and camden for decades. In these cases it is often a case of the parents not being involved or not knowing how to be involved.

    We can certainly improve the tools we offer to help poor populations ( i know there have been some very successful recent programs that teach parents HOW to teach their children), but in the end they must provide for their own success.

    We have similar issue in healthcare and in social policy. We cannot, as a nation accept that some people will fail and some will die.

  215. Mr Hyde says:

    Re flying wings/lifting bodies

    Commercial application shouldn’t be a huge issue from a technical standpoint. Most military fighters have been intentionally designed to be inherently unstable in order to increase maneuverability. In the military realm we have been flying plans that require computer aid in order to maintain stability for decades.

    As Pain also pointed out, all of the newer commercial aircraft are fly-by-wire as well and i believe that a few of the newer ones are capable of landing themselves if need be.

  216. Painhrtz says:

    Veto no need for pity, I’m OK. Would not trade my childhood for anything. It made me who I am today. The problem is society doe not celebrate the successs stories. Those who pick themselves up and succeed are seen as sell outs. That is the problem, so why stay and provide a positive example. Welfare also provides a disencentive to hard work. why work hard if everything is taken care of for you.

  217. Mr Hyde says:

    Lots of hot issues today….

    As someone else pointed out, what do you do about the habitual welfare mother, who pops another out just to get another check?

    is forced sterilization unconstitutional?

    Where we need to start, is “what can we pay for”. That is the first question we need to ask. I’d like to drive a ferrari, but cant pay for it. Who wants to subsidize my ferrari? How about you leftwing, your “rich”.

  218. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [136] comrade plg

    Since you asked . . .

    “Are you concerned about those taxes on the poor and middle class? Or are you just concerned about the tax on those making over 400K per year?”

    Yes on transit

    No on Rutgers

    God I hope to be concerned re: 400K+ earners

  219. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [226] pain,

    “Welfare also provides a disencentive to hard work. why work hard if everything is taken care of for you.”

    And lets not forget the flip side: Why work hard when everything is taken from you?

  220. NJGator says:

    Clot – My kid is doomed if he can’t participate in any of the following elementary school after-school enrichment programs:

    Chess
    Fencing
    Yoga
    Who in the world was Frank Lloyd Wright
    Shockingly Sticky Science
    Knitting Needle Ninjas
    Dutch Masters
    Knit Wit
    Elementary Egypt
    Master Bridge Builders
    Capoeira – Afro-Brazillian Martial Arts

    http://montclairpta.org/pta/pages/articles/edgemont5033.pdf

  221. Fat B@stard says:

    Veto [204],

    Um… I guess you didn’t get it.

  222. Libtard says:

    Who will be this generations Pol Pot?

  223. veto that says:

    “How does a flat tax suddenly mix the populations of mendham and newark?”

    Ket, we want to pick and choose what to be fair about.
    it but its implied in the ideas discussed.

    You cite scandanavia and other countries, even england, mix the poor people into the wealthier communities. I dont get the impression that would go over very well with many here. But when the kids from newark grow up needing welfare because the flunked out of school in 9th grade, then we want to complain that they are slackers without really looking into why.

    we have to look at the whole system and all the imbalances, not just that uncle sam is picking my pocket.

  224. Mr Hyde says:

    PLG, Veto,

    Call me a naturalist. I think people should generally be left to find their own level of achievement, with basic social safety nets, as i acknowledge that everyone falls on hard times at some point or another. But those safety nets should be a temporary hand up not a crutch. We should acknowledge that some will overachieve and some will fail in life. So be it.

    It certainly doesnt help things when you have your politicians celling out the nation due to both their personal corruption as well as corporate corruption.

    As an example, vaunted free trade, without any standards has the effect of immediately depressing the entry level of the job market/economy meaning that the initial impact is worst on those least able to bear it. By standards i mean not forcing american workers to compete with 3rd world slave labor or countries without environmental regulations. In the case or free trade/globalization, its a guaranteed race to the bottom unless you enforce universal standards across the board.

  225. Mr Hyde says:

    Veto 232,

    i am not familiar with what you are suggesting, but agree with your premise…..we have to look at the whole system and all the imbalances, not just that uncle sam is picking my pocket.

  226. Jill says:

    Mr. Hyde: “As someone else pointed out, what do you do about the habitual welfare mother, who pops another out just to get another check?”

    Excuse me, what decade are you living in? Isn’t the “Welfare queen in the Cadillac” (who was in actuality a wealthy woman defrauding the system) line from Reagan circa 1982 getting a little old, especially after the welfare reforms of the 1990’s?

  227. njescapee says:

    197 JB, I’ve been doing fulltime telework for nearly 5 yrs from my home in Key West. Life has been pretty good here.

  228. Mr Hyde says:

    Jill,

    My wife works with disadvantaged families in places like newark. Where i come up with my statement is her coming home and bitching about what she see’s.

  229. 2010 Buyer says:

    Let’s say in 2005, your parent’s house was appraised at $600k. For whatever reason, they decided to take out a reverse mortgage and gave them $450k.

    Fast forward today, the house is worth $350k….who got screwed?

  230. Mr Hyde says:

    Jill,

    the issue isnt just welfare, or even the form of welfare, but an issue of cultural breakdown in blighted urban areas.

    When you have 14 and 15 year old girls intentionally getting pregnant so that “someone will love them” (their baby) you have a serious issue. And yes my wife has worked with a number of girls coming through and saying this to her.

  231. Mr Hyde says:

    Jill,

    let me also that the the issue is 2 sided. if the best our society can offer a person trying to escape poverty is a job at BurgerKing, as opposed to something they can actually build a skill in then the politicians/society is doing something wrong as well.

  232. skep-tic says:

    welfare lady is a smokescreen wedge issue. so are bankers’ bonuses.

  233. veto that says:

    ‘Those who pick themselves up and succeed are seen as sell outs. ”

    pain, Thats just another one of the many disadvantages that keep the poor in the drainage ditch. I grew up in working class neighborhood, so i wouldnt know. if i did poorly in school or said i wasnt going on to college, for example, there would be a negative reinforcement whiplash among my peers. They might openly make fun of the ‘losers’ who were destined to be underachieving, blue collar etc etc.

    Take that concept to the whole other extreme, when you grow up in newark and take your books home from school, the cool kids call you ‘gay’ for studying.

    Just think, because of that, you aint getting girlfriend until you are at least 20. Yet if that same kid sells drugs and drops out, he will immediately have more friends and girlfriends than he knows what to do with. At 15 its a pretty easy decision for most youths.

    There are a million advantages like that which most of us never had to deal with. Yet we are so quick to dismiss those unfortunate youths as lazy. (in many cases)

  234. Final Doom says:

    gator (229)-

    That is just sickening.

    We have become a nation of fat, soft pussies.

  235. Final Doom says:

    In my world, only two acceptable afterschool activities:

    1. Hand-to-hand combat
    2. Soccer

  236. veto that says:

    “there is massive waste. reduce the waste and you can cut taxes and free up more funds for the poor and needy.”

    cut cut cut the waste and corruption and bloated system. of course. all for that. Whether you want to raise or lower taxes, cut the waste.

  237. NJGator says:

    Clot – I actually believe most of the after-school enrichment in our school district is fundraised by the PTA. The teacher honorariums and other costs are paid for by the tuition and the balance is covered by the PTA. The district isn’t paying for that crap.

    Which will of course mean that my son’s core educational program will be gutted next year, but he will still have Capoeira and Shockingly Sticky Science available to him.

  238. jcer says:

    Ok my take on all of this is the government squanders an exorbitant amount of money and almost everything they do costs twice what it should, so the govt overhead is likely over 100%. I am actually a Democrat and really believe the people have a responsibility to the community and that a framework to ensure people have the support they need is a necessity. The problem is what we have now DOESN’T WORK and likely NEVER WILL. We need to destroy it, we need to concentrate on helping people make their own opportunities through hard work. Not everyone can be Bill Gates, or a movie star, or a pro athlete, etc. Not everyone should go to college and go to the corporate world. But I strongly believe everyone has some skill that through hard work they can exploit to lead a successful and productive life.

    Make no mistake we try to give the tools to Newark et al but really that money is sent to no show jobs and political appointments. WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO BURN IT DOWN. The government cannot make parents care for their children and cannot make good schools out of bad no matter how much they spend per student. The only thing to do now is wipe the slate clean, balance the budget and start over again, we simply CANNOT afford and costs that are not absolutely necessary. We cannot expect to make things better if we don’t have the money to pay for it. We need to spend within our means and cut the deficit.

  239. Anon E. Moose says:

    233.Mr Hyde says:
    March 19, 2010 at 2:49 pm
    PLG, Veto,

    Call me a naturalist.

    I’M BLIND! MY EYES! THEY BURN! Arrggg…

  240. Shore Guy says:

    Sastry,

    Let’s talk about raising the SS income limit. Right now, only earnings up to around $115,000 a year are taxed; there is also a limit to the size of a monthly check. Let’s say there is a couple hat pulls in $400,000-$500,000 or so a year and they are self employed. Now, the extra taxes you propose are substantial. Are you proposing, then, to remove the limit on payments at retirement?

    I know for sure that if I am going to be taxed 3 or 4 times the current amount I should see a commensurate increase in my benefit.

    If we are going to start treating SS taxes as general revenue and not the fallacy we have been deluding ourselves with lo these many years, we should just collect the revenue via the income tax process and lay bare the lie that SS taxes are anything but just that.

    Right now, with the lower limit on SS taxes, Mrs Shore and I pay over 60% of our income in income taxes. Lifting the limit will push us over 75%. Now, let’s add property taxes to the mix and you might see how we are getting a bit grumpy. Oh, wait, there is some other 2% the BO is sticking us with as part of healthcare reform.

    I ask you this, why the he-ll is my last dollar earned taxed at twice, three times, or more, than some other citizen?

    I picked myself up out of the muck and our family has paid blood to protect this country. Heck, they both came to this land and fought for it in every century from the 17th century (yea the 1600s) through the 20th.

    I am all for shared sacrafice, so, let’s all do it to the same degree. It is time for a flat tax with no deductions for anything.

  241. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [232] libtard

    That’s easy. He’s right here.

    Pol Clot!

  242. Anon E. Moose says:

    Re[248];

    Oh, wait. That’s “natrualist”… with an “L”.

    Nevermind…/gilda

  243. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Remember my admonition about the top few hundred wealthy in america leaving?

    http://www.globalpolicy.org/nations-a-states/state-sovereignty-and-corruption/tax-havens/48038.html

  244. skep-tic says:

    what do I mean by a smokescreen?

    Gov’t answer for welfare lady problem. Raise taxes.

    Gov’t answer for banker bonus problem. Raise taxes.

    Gov’t answer for obesity problem. Raise taxes.

    Gov’t answer for alleged climate change problem. Raise taxes.

    And on and on. Notice a pattern?

  245. Libtard says:

    But what would all the tax lawyers do?

  246. Painhrtz says:

    Jill drive around the State St projects in Passaic more luxury cars than most suburbs.

    Look up ODB getting his welfare check on MTV back in 1999 after the CLinton reforms on you tube.

  247. veto that says:

    “I think people should generally be left to find their own level of achievement, with basic social safety nets,”

    hyde, of course but this is utopian pipe dream. If most people were like you and others on this board, then for the most part there would be level playing ground and equal opportunity.

    But most of the disadvantaged are unfit to be parents or just plain ignorant so how can we expect their kids to compete with ours and then call it a free, fair competitive system?

    As if its really a big mystery if our children are going to get better grades and make more money than 95% of the youths who are growing up in newark right now.

  248. plg says:

    Mr Hyde,

    “As an example, vaunted free trade, without any standards has the effect of immediately depressing the entry level of the job market/economy meaning that the initial impact is worst on those least able to bear it.”

    Are you arguing for protectionism? Isn’t that big government? Why not let people compete in a free market?

  249. veto that says:

    “I guess you didn’t get it.”

    F@t Bast, no, i got it. was being ironic.

  250. Mr Hyde says:

    Jcer 247

    WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO BURN IT DOWN

    Let your anger flow through you. Your hate will make you strong. …

  251. jcer says:

    Veto, I think the issue is THERE IS, WAS, and WILL ALWAY BE an inherent lack of fairness is the system. Now how do your children compete with the children of the wealthy with superior business connections and guaranteed admittance to the finest schools, the short answer is they don’t, and they can’t. Fairness is an idealized vision that what people put in they’ll get out. Some people are born with an advantage, physically, intelligence wise, a knack for business, etc. People are so different and follow different paths to success there simply isn’t a way to make it fair. We can only educate people on their options and possible avenues to success, and try to foster talent that is evident in youth no matter what that talent may be. Trying to do more is pure folly.

  252. SirRentsalot says:

    “Mrs Shore and I pay over 60% of our income in income taxes”

    Shore, which bracket is that?

  253. Anon E. Moose says:

    Shore [249];

    I completely agree with you. The progressive income tax has been justified on the basis of ‘everyone who maxes $x gets taxed the same’, even if its a larger proportion/percentage than those who make half of that.

    (PLG, please don’t link to the Buffet interview comparing his tax burden to his secretary’s – I’ve seen it, I understand his point, which was the VERY rich are outliers. I’m talking about HENRYs, not Warren)

    What torques me is the income phase out deductions and credits. Being blissfully not a home loaner, without itemizing my only deduction to speak of was my SAH spouse’s IRA contribution. If the government wants to encourage retirement savings by deferring tax on them, why does that policy become null and void once a certain income is reached.

    To quote the old saw against farm subsidies for the purpose of reducing output to put a floor under prices: I don’t grow corn either; where’s my check?

    Government picking winners and losers among its citizens on any basis, including earned income, is insiduous.

  254. plg says:

    All of you anti-taxation people really think you made your money all by yourself without any advantage or help from the society that many people have contributed to building? That is so arrogant and completely wrong.

    Are you kidding? You just happened to have been born into the most spoiled, advantaged generation in the history of the world. It was luck! You think you work hard? Try growing up in Bangladesh!

    You think any of you would have made any money at all if you were born in Yemen? Society affords you the opportunity to make a good living and instead of appreciating that fact you say, “screw you, I did this by myself.”

    The financial markets, the court system, the educational system and many other social institutions that were built over many generations have afforded you the opportunity to specialize in your particular field. But for these social developments, unless you were born into wealth, you would be subsistence farming somewhere.

  255. Libtard says:

    plg,

    I’m not sure I get your point?

  256. Shore Guy says:

    “Society affords you the opportunity to make a good living”

    And it affords eceryone else in the country the with the same opportunity. So, let’s all get taxed at the same rate. If we do, the successful will pay a boatload more, but all should pay “in appreciation of the opportunity to succeed.”

  257. Mr Hyde says:

    Veto 256

    But most of the disadvantaged are unfit to be parents or just plain ignorant so how can we expect their kids to compete with ours and then call it a free, fair competitive system?

    you just pointed out a very ugly truth that is carefully avoided by most.

    Is that not a free fair system? Brutal? yes. but certainly free and fair.

    Now i am not suggesting we take it to that raw of a level.

    Can anyone even answer your question without being promptly shouted down by society?

    perhaps we need to genetically engineer a new human predator that will thin the heard for us. a well designed predator wont care what your last name is or what town your from.

    My question to you is this;

    But most of the disadvantaged are unfit to be parents or just plain ignorant why should society, any society tolerate this for even a moment! Why support an individual or group if they are truly so inept and incapable. In so doing you are simply allowing such traits to spread and masking the true penalty.

  258. veto that says:

    “how do your children compete with the children of the wealthy with superior business connections and guaranteed admittance to the finest schools, the short answer is they don’t, and they can’t.”

    jcer, Good point. I think its a fair comparison.
    The system is not fair. And i am not suggesting that we try to make it fair.
    But thats why we expect those rich to dig deeper than the middle class when it comes time to pay taxes. and for the most part they do and are happy to, as long as they continue to have a system that keeps us middle class rif raf out of their prescious prep schools.

  259. Jamal Van Jones says:

    If most people were like you and others on this board, then for the most part there would be level playing ground and equal opportunity.

    Then, all of us would be making substantially less money.

  260. njescapee says:

    PLG, I’d rather burn my money than pay taxes to support you or Pelosi.

  261. Barbara says:

    re: flat tax. I support a flax consumer tax. Labor should not be taxed, ever. Passive income (profit) and sales tax only. Income tax is immoral and makes no sense.

  262. skep-tic says:

    #263

    “You just happened to have been born into the most spoiled, advantaged generation in the history of the world. It was luck! You think you work hard? Try growing up in Bangladesh!”

    yes, and for that reason I understand that some level of taxation is necessary and justified. but this does not justify taxation without limit, especially when the people in charge of administering the money clearing aren’t capable of responsibly handling what they already take.

    And FWIW, your argument works both ways. One can just as easily say that in a country of such stability and opportunity you should not expect any handouts. I personally would not go that far, but left leaning people often fails to appreciate the flip side of your often made point.

  263. John says:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=anljLrBSc_D0&pos=11

    Poor Warren and me, I think we were only people on buy side in Q1 2009.

    BTW what’s up with all this studying stuff. America is a great country where a man like me can get a graduate degree without paying for it and rarely studying. God Bless America. School is for fools.

  264. John says:

    I saw slumdog millionaire. Whats up with you guys pouring acid in kids eyeballs so they can beg for you? If that is your idea of hardworking get on next plane back.

    skep-tic says:
    March 19, 2010 at 3:33 pm
    #263

    “You just happened to have been born into the most spoiled, advantaged generation in the history of the world. It was luck! You think you work hard? Try growing up in Bangladesh!”

  265. Final Doom says:

    gator (246)-

    Save your child, while there’s still time.

  266. Shore Guy says:

    Rents,

    Add our fed and state income taxes, we are at the top rate, then state income taxes (various rates in about 20 states), then employee and employer share of SS (as self-employed we pay both), then add medicare, AMT. Boom! Up over 60% we go.

    We have no mortgage so no deduction.

    I have to deal with tax calculations 7 or so times a year (quarterly payments, two extensions, and final filing), so taxes are in our faces in a way they are not for lower earning couples who get a W-2 and fill out one or two forms each year.

  267. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [262] libtard

    What would we do? Help them leave, of course.

    [264] comrade plg,

    I came across this graphic. Puts things into perspective.

    http://intltax.typepad.com/intltax_blog/2010/03/expatriations-on-the-rise-again.html

    BTW, I have been following the expat numbers, and I also noticed this about the big spike: In prior years, a lot of the names sounded “foreign”, suggesting that these were probably permanent residents, or kids of foreign parents, etc. You expect that sort of expatriation. It’s normal.

    This time, very few of the names sounded foreign.

    Couple that with anecdotal evidence that attorneys in other countries are fielding inquiries, and some actually admit (cuz its good for their bidness) that they have helped the wealthy leave.

    Fact is, its happening. And it hurts the US. At the extremes, we can either reform the tax system to make it less pun-i-tive, or we simply c0nfis-cate all their property if they try to leave.

    I think I know where you’d come out.

  268. John says:

    http://www.skeptic.com/

    Here is a new website for you guys.

  269. Barbara says:

    John,
    I loved that movie but can’t watch it again because of that scene.

  270. Mr Hyde says:

    Veto,

    your stance is self contradicting.

    The system is not fair. And i am not suggesting that we try to make it fair.

    Its not fair and because its not fair the rich should pay more?.?.?.?.?.

    The only equal approach is a flat tax. if 1 make 1 million and you make 100K i am still paying significantly more then you in taxes even if we are noth taxed at 10%.

    If we use barbara’s example then i am paying WAY more then you because a 1 million, a fair portion of my income is likely to be from interest.

    We dont actually want life to be “fair” competition breeds excellence and advancement in everything from evolution to business to education. As in thermodynamics, there is no free lunch! If you want advancement/development through competition then you must accept that there will be a segment of losers and winners in a society.
    A static entity, whether a species or a society is doomed if it does not compete when faced with competitors.
    The posters on this blog compete against each other daily on an economic basis and our society competes daily against every other society in the world.

    Competition and the drive to succeed is what made this nation great. A fear of competition is what may bring us down

  271. plg says:

    Skeptic,

    “your argument works both ways. One can just as easily say that in a country of such stability and opportunity you should not expect any handouts”

    No the argument does not work both ways. The argument is that wealth is largely the result of luck and relative opportunity. Therefore, since wealth is largely luck, we should re-distribute it to even out some of the extremes. We should not have billionares and extreme poverty.

    Bill Gates and Warren Buffet will tell you that they got extremely lucky. Extreme poverty is usually purely the result of bad luck. Do we really want human well-being to be a lottery?

  272. veto that says:

    “And it affords eceryone else in the country the with the same opportunity. So, let’s all get taxed at the same rate.”

    Mr Shore, unfortunately for most, it really does not – no matter how hard you work.

  273. plg says:

    Hyde,

    No one is suggesting eliminating competition. (I would argue that you really don’t want true competition because if you did you would soon be competing with several billion Chinese and Indians and much of your wealth will be going that direction)

    I am not suggesting eliminating competition. I am just saying a 25% fair increase, a similiar tuition increase, cuts to schools, etc is crushing the poor and middle class. Now is not the time to cut back on social services. The wealthy Bankers got record bonuses in an incredibly unfair and egregious manner. We have every right to tax those bank bonuses and mitigate some of the damage to the poor and middle class.

    Instead Christie digs his heel into the chokes of the poor.

  274. Shore Guy says:

    “are going to get better grades and make more money than 95% of the youths who are growing up in newark right now”

    Let’s consider this:

    Productive folks are shoveling money into Newark to ensure that the schools there have more money to spend on each child in Newark than we have in our own towns. For those who cannot affford it, we pay for their breakfast and lunch. If parents and children there do not take care of free public education (and for a goodly number of Newark redidents it is free as they are not paying taxes , or paying minimal ones) that is their friggen problem. You want to earn? Study! Go to class and learn. S0omeone calls you gay? Fcuk em! The only reason one can get hurt by that is if they see gay as something to be ashamed of. I am not gay but if someone called me gay BFD.

    The failure of people to take advantage of opportunitied laid at their feet is their own problem. I will not be made to feel badly about others’ lack of ambition, self-sacrifice, and willingness to work and take advantage of what society offers.

  275. Painhrtz says:

    Hyde – well put

  276. John says:

    Back in the 1800s for every rich neighborhood their was poor one next door so the servants would have somewhere to live. I say lets disperse the poor into shanty towns outside rich neighborhoods and employ them as servants and deport the illegals.

  277. jcer says:

    I have no issue with taxation provided it is used wisely. The just of the scenario is many people pay the majority of their income in taxes. The government collects a lot or money, the question is where does it go, why can’t we provide what is needed to people? Why is there massive debt, it has nothing to do with not collecting enough money, it has to do with where the money goes and how efficiently the government operates. I for one have no expectation of being taxed lower, what I am looking for a politician to do is enhance the operation of the government, look for efficiencies, cut wasteful spending. Personally I know we need the taxes, I know this country is in dire need of infrastructure replacement and improvement. What I cannot get behind is feeding a corrupt and inefficient system. Certain government entities are models of what the government should be like, for example NOAA. They run more efficiently than contractors can and provide a lot of value vs. cost. Also when faced with an economic maelstrom it is folly to try to invest in social and health programs we cannot afford. Kind of like cutting taxes in the good times so the gov’t is in debt when it needs to do bailout and provide support to the economy.

  278. Barbara says:

    jcer,
    we pay out as much as a french citizen and get sqiat for it, I agree.

  279. veto that says:

    “your stance is self contradicting.

    Its not fair and because its not fair the rich should pay more?.?.?.?.?.”

    hyde, its not contradicting. The rich should pay more than middle class just like the middle class should pay more than the poor. (Assuming that we dont want to totally even the playing field for all at the foundational level)

  280. Barbara says:

    sqiat = squat

  281. Shore Guy says:

    Veto,

    I came from nothing. I disagree with your assertion that people cannot pull themselves up. Sometimes it takes a generation or two but it can be done with work and effort.

  282. veto that says:

    “competition breeds excellence”

    the argument assumes that leveling the playing field (through progessive taxation) is making things more fair and therebye increasing competition.

  283. skep-tic says:

    plg– you are looking at extreme outliers. buffet and gates are not representative of anyone but themselves. Also, taxing them alone will not make a dent in the lives of the “unlucky” (in fact, a larger question is if certain people are truly unluckly, then nothing will).

    Look at the millions of people who make in the low 6 figures. that is the real money pot that the gov’t wants to tap. Do these people work significantly harder than those who make, for example, $50k? I am certain that on average they do (notice I did not say in every case).

    Life is not totally fair, but it is also not totally unfair.

  284. Shore Guy says:

    “No the argument does not work both ways. The argument is that wealth is largely the result of luck and relative opportunity. Therefore, since wealth is largely luck, we should re-distribute it to even out some of the extremes. We should not have billionares and extreme poverty”

    Here we have a difference that cannot be bridged. You seem to see things as a communist does, and I do not.

  285. jcer says:

    plg you really are dense, we have no way of recovering banker bonuses short of a federal tax. Any tax NJ implements will simply make people move their primary residence to CT or NY and businesses will think twice about moving employees to Jersey City. Increasing taxes on the rich will just move businesses and residents out of the state. NJ taxes are currently very high, we need to remain competitive with NY and CT as they really are essentially the same.

  286. Mr Hyde says:

    plg,

    the bankers got their bonuses because our politicians are to corrupt to prosecute the illegal behavior of the banks and other politicians.

    I think our society should compete amongst the other and that means penalizing china for utilizing slave labor which is an essential front to human dignity. if you would like to work in slave labor condition i wont get in your way, but have that forced upon our society, to be forced to compete with that should be addressed.

    The real result of such action is that we would lose access to many of those markets and be forced to manufacture said goods ourselves. if we failed to do so or were not capable of doing so then we fail… That sir is competition.

    Competing with an unjust, amoral and corrupt society such as china ( although all three could be used to describe the US at the moment) on their terms is lunacy and tantamount to surrender, not competition.

  287. Barbara says:

    veto,
    I’ve worked with the welfare class up close, politically. Dirty secret: they don’t want better, just the security of the same.

  288. plg says:

    jcer,

    I agree. You take a reasonable approach to the problem.

    Can I suggest the most inefficient and diastrous use of government money? The trillion or so dollars we have spent killing Arabs in countries that never attacked us.

  289. Juice Box says:

    Hyde re: is forced sterilization unconstitutional?

    Anyone remember Norplant and Welfare recipients from the early 1990s?

    If the States did not back down on mandating welfare recipients and criminals get Norplant by now there would be one whole less generation of losers…..

    The ABA and the ACLU was all over Norplant and Wyeth had their pants sued off over it.

  290. Mr Hyde says:

    Veto 292,

    It may in a homogeneous society, there is evidence for that. But there is no evidence that i have seen that suggests it is at all effective in a heterogeneous society.

  291. plg says:

    Hyde,

    Fair enough, if you want to follow your comeptition creed to the end you are looking at some serious competition from desperately poor, hard working and industrious people all over the world.

    You have enjoyed countless advantages over them in the course of your life. Im just suggesting not to lose sight of the fact that your country has given you the upper hand over several billion other unlucky bastards born in other places and maybe you should give something back in taxes.

  292. nah says:

    The reason real welfare reform never passes because there are more white rural moms on welfare than any other demographic.

  293. veto that says:

    “I came from nothing. I disagree with your assertion that people cannot pull themselves up.”

    Shore, read through the earlier conversation, particularly btween me and pain. We covered this already.

    and i dont necessarily disagree with you but my explanation gets complicated,

    although i guess my whole stance is that you are prob not representative of most who grew up with nothing. And then too there is a difference and varying degrees between being poor or alcholic parents and the other extreme where the parent is so ignorant and broken that he/she performs an all out assault on the child’s hope and future every single day.

    Like my fil, now he grew up in poor home with two mean military alchoholics, one german and the other irish. (yikes) but they wouold bring the belt in the room and go through the homework and make sure the kids were doing chores like soldiers. Of course my fil did very well in his career, hard work ethic and strong academics, you can imagine. lol. but you get the point.

  294. Mr Hyde says:

    Its interesting seeing the lines dividing the different posters. Very telling really. Our own little idealogical civil war of sorts.

  295. Mr Hyde says:

    plg,

    I am with shore on this, an unbridgeable gap.

    I am fine with appropriate taxation, ala a flat tax. of course property taxes should be banned as they insidiously violate private property rights in the long run.

  296. jcer says:

    Yes, fact the rural poor are insanely more poor than the urban poor and have a much, much , much bleaker economic scenario. Go to a poor farm town or rust belt area of Michigan, truly bleak economically the only option is out, generally to the sun belt. If you want to see the successes of liberal government and the unions look at Michigan as what Jersey will become if steps aren’t taken to correct it. I’d rather deal with cuts from the fat man 1000 times over than wind up like Michigan. Remember 50 years ago it was the capital of the manufacturing world, were the captains of industry lived and worked, where the middle class was string and lived a nice life. Everyone wanted to be there, SOUND FAMILIAR!

  297. veto that says:

    “Dirty secret: they don’t want better, just the security of the same.”

    No secret barb. That is the whole problem. Society has left many of them so ar out in the cold, that they are totally broken and hopeless.
    If we dont want to fix the system at the foundation level, their children will end up with the same apathy.

    And im not saying we should or should not but we are leavingit out of discussion altogether and then making judgements based on the pis s poor outcomes as if they are occuringin a vacuum.

  298. Mr Hyde says:

    It seems that the term “Fat Man” has become a badge of honor of sorts…

  299. skep-tic says:

    people can come to different conclusions on the degree of luckiness involved in life. those who feel guilty due to a perception of being unduly lucky are free to donate their money to someone they deem unlucky.

  300. Mr Hyde says:

    Veto,

    Short of removing the children from poor (economically) parents, ala forced boarding school or something similar, how do you propose we forcefully break the chain?

  301. veto that says:

    “Our own little idealogical civil war of sorts.”

    Hyde, you can lump me with plg today. lol. thats pretty extreme.

    Truth is that i am not liberal or sypethetic to the lower class. i see both sides equally and im just playing devil’s advocate today because there were some pretty extreme posts this morning coming from one side.

    both sides get skewed to an equal degree in my opinion, especially when politics is the mo.

  302. plg says:

    skeptic,

    “people can come to different conclusions on the degree of luckiness involved in life. those who feel guilty due to a perception of being unduly lucky are free to donate their money to someone they deem unlucky.”

    OFCOURSE YOU WOULD SAY THAT, YOU ARE ONE OF THE LUCKY ONES!

  303. House Whine says:

    Realizing that life is not fair, I want to address why we seem to think of those who are poor as not working hard. Have you ever imagined what your life would be like cleaning toilets at a rest stop or being a home health aide? THese people are like invisible to most of us. I bet so many of these kind of workers are poor and need a few extra dimes from the taxpayers to sustain them. I wouldn’t deny them that. We need people who are willing to perform these tasks- I know I won’t and I know my children won’t. There is truly a lot of wealth still left here and let’s not assume that everyone has the smarts and presence to get paid well. We have to take of the people at the bottom, at least to some degree. If you resent them or resent helping them then let’s all clean up after ourselves at the rest stops and take care of our own grandmothers.

  304. plg says:

    House Whine,

    Well said.

  305. Anon E. Moose says:

    Juice Box [298];

    I’m about as conservative as they come, but there is nothing funny about socio-economic genocide. And there is nothing wrong with Norplant or Wyeth pre se, just a misguided use of their product.

    Being poor is supposed to suck; if it didn’t why would anyone try to better themselves?

  306. jcer says:

    Veto that defines the different ethnic groups, immigrants(From most places) work hard and drive their children to succeed at all costs and it shows. The most successful black people I know are the children of people from Jamaica, why you might ask. First they are willing to work hard, second they don’t expect as much to be given to them, and third they frankly cope better with workplace racism(i.e they don’t blow their career because someone they work with or for is a racist jerks). These people are disadvantaged but they have risen above and have succeeded.

    Welfare and the entitlement culture it promotes is BAD for society, people need not only money but the dignity that comes along with earning it.

  307. skep-tic says:

    plg– what I have found is that most of the time the people who shout the loudest about how lucky people like me are are themselves equally as lucky but are unwilling to put their money where their mouth is when it comes to supporting those they consider unlucky.

  308. toomuchchange says:

    On immigration, legal and illegal:

    I don’t think we’ll do mass deportations of illegals, but it sure would help if Obama and company would just SHUT UP about amnesty during 10% unemployment. That way, more will leave on their own instead of clinging here hoping for amnesty.

    All this appeasing of the loudly pro-amnesty Latino vote is just making the problem worse by setting up an expectation of continued bribes. Also it ignores the fact that for many Latino voters, other issues are far more important than immigration because, of course, they and their families are here legally.

    As a person who’s been unemployed for over a year now, I see legal immigration as a problem too. We’re still granting work permits at the same rate as when unemployment was under 5%. According to the government’s own statistics, this year there will be more new workers from abroad than new jobs created. That’s crazy and shouldn’t be allowed. We should stop allowing sponsorship of parents, brothers and sisters. Also increase the financial criteria for sponsorship, which is a whopping 125% of poverty level. You can’t really help anyone else when you’re poor yourself.

    Finally, it’s imperative that we do the right thing and end birthright citizenship for the children of illegal aliens. We’re already going to stick our children and grandchildren with a huge bill for our senior years and the federal deficit. What business do we have committing future generations to taking care of people who shouldn’t have been here in the first place?

  309. veto that says:

    “removing the children from poor (economically) parents”

    Definately not removal them from their parents. The opposite maybe. Perhaps hold a mandatory parenting training for any parent who wants welfare assistance?

    For starters we need to create some political will to get into these festering sub-cultures and start showing a little interest. Clearly throwing money at the problem does nothing.

    But we cant even convince them to breast feed their children so it would definately be an up hill battle. But there are programs that work.

    I have proposed programs in the past that include incentives to allow social workers to get into the home and talk to the parent on how to help with school work, offer substance abuse programs, discuss with them the benefits of college and give them real world goals that they can attain – like how to become a pharmacist. because they really have no idead!!! not really shocking.

    I dont really have a solution. In fact my whole angle was just to even out the debate. but you get the idea.

  310. plg says:

    Skeptic,

    Dont try personal attacks. They are weak and detract from the argument.

    The whole point of what I am saying is that we are all lucky. We have computers, the ability to write and probably a decent standard of living.

    Unlike you I happen to recongize it, appreciate it and have some humility about whatever level of “success” I have achieved. Therefore I am willing and do give back in many ways. One of those ways is trying to make people like you a little more humble about the success you think YOU have achieved.

  311. Anon E. Moose says:

    Whine;

    I don’t resent the poor, I don’t resent heping them. Charity at the point of a gun is not charity. And when gov’t plays Robin Hood and keeps 50¢ on the dollar in thier own pocket (and those of their ‘friends’) for their trouble; while sanctimoniously telling me how much more they care than I do, its particularly noxious.

    Cleaning toilets pays poorly because anyone can do it. That gets back to Shore’s point of taking advantage of free education offered to everyone in this country. The toilet cleaner or their kids can learn skills that give them something of more value to offer than cleaning toilets.

  312. yo'me says:

    flat tax for earned and capital gains.no deductions for business losses,depreciation of equipment,interest deduction.i can go with that.wont the businesses loose more that way than what it is now?

  313. Shore Guy says:

    ” maybe you should give something back in taxes”

    We pay several times more in taxes each year than most people earn. I don’t know about :et, but the Shore Family pays, and pays, and pays. There comes a time when you realize that you have paid well north of a million dollars in taxes tp a government that can’t balance its books, and where close to half of “the people” don’t pay any taxes, and the call keeps going out “tax the rich” and we live well within our means, frugally by our income standards, and we still don’t know how we will pay for college tuitions and retirement and you say to yourself, “what the fcuk is wrong with this picture.”

    The other thing I don’t get is how paying the same percentage tax as a flat tax is unfair? We do the sales taxes that way — pay more, get taxed more.

    If we had a flat tax of, say 20% on all income, we would still be paying six-figure taxes, Warren would be paying the same percentage tax as his secretary and many more dollars than any of us.

    The liberals here seem to want fair as long as it benefits them. If you folks want fairness, let’s all be in together. We live in the same place, enjoy the same rights, let’s pay the same. Since many of you are incapable of paying the same dollar amount as we are, and we can’t afford the same dollar amount as Buffet or Gates, what can we do to make things FAIR. Hummm??? I know, let’s all pay the same percentage on all income regardless of source.

    Let’s also eliminate all deductions (they really benefit the top the most anyway) and simplify the tax code.

    Unless one has esoteric sources of income it can be hard to understand how fcuked up the tax code is. Our income tax form is north of a hunderd pages. Add filings in 20 states, and there is a LOT of time, effort, and expense that goes into this. One of our forms has an IRS estimated time to complete of something like 72 hours! THIS is not the 1040 itself, just one of the forms in the attachment sequence.

  314. A.West says:

    Veto,
    Do you think that the successes and work of some parents to create a better life for themselves and their kids is inherently unjust? In know PGC and plg do. Most of what happens in human life is determined by the cumulative sum of choices made. And that includes generations of family members. Pretty much every kid born in the US has a better opportunity than the majority of people born in the world. There are some cultures in the US, however, that don’t value knowledge, effort, etc., and actively punish kids with educational success, etc. I despise those kinds of attitudes and cultures. But dang if I think its fair for the government to take my money and dump it in that black hole. Telling people – read a book in the public library and turn off the tv and boombox – that’s free advice more valuable than any amount of welfare.

  315. plg says:

    Anon E. Moose,

    320 – So under your concept that anyone can improve their condition through free education, I assume you are opposed to the MASSIVE cuts Christies has made to public education, including higher education?

    A high school diploma is useless. College is not free. It is free, or almost free, in many countries. In NJ a college degree from Rutgers is about $100,000 now and more since Christie cut $150 million in aid to higher ed. Is that equal opportunity?

  316. veto that says:

    “The most successful black people I know are the children of people from Jamaica,”

    jcer, i agree with the different ethnicities and the work ethic idea. Would be nice if we can look into that and learn what drives that and then reproduce it and use it on the portion of our population who are lacking motivation…

  317. A.West says:

    Veto,
    Back before guaranteed welfare, private charities kept people from starving, but along with that help came the requirement to ask for it, to bear a bit of shame regarding their situation, and a requirement to listen to advice about how they can improve themselves. Post government welfare, people now claim other people’s money by RIGHT, with no shame, no guilt, no conditions other than what the third party government tells you. This is a totally different dynamic, which turns living off of others into a “lifestyle choice” from which many feel no need to escape.

  318. plg says:

    A.West,

    You refer to the public library. That system was largely built during the New Deal and require tax dollars to continue.

    So I assume your support taxation for good things like that, right? Christie has slashed aid to municipalities. Do you know what that means for public libraries? Fewer hours, less book, etc.

    We are cutting opportunities for the poor exactly when they need it the most, so that a fat banker can keep his bonus. Makes no sense.

  319. skep-tic says:

    plg– I don’t know you and my point isn’t any more personal than your assertion that I am lucky. We simply disagree on an ideological level about the nature of property.

    You would probably be appalled to learn that I do not begrudge people who have inherited 100% of their wealth in the least. It is their money and they are free to do with it what they wish. Just as, for that matter, we are.

  320. Juice Box says:

    Question for the day.

    If there are 106 million productive private sector workers, 20 million government workers, 40 million indigents and 47 million retirees collecting social security in this country then what does that say about our future?

    How can we possibly expect the 106 million to support everyone else?

  321. Outofstater says:

    #324 MASSIVE cuts?? I thought no school district had more than 5% of its budget cut. As for higher ed, use the proceeds of the lottery to fund it. Where does that money go in NJ anyway?

  322. jcer says:

    House Whine, many of us on this board have worked bad jobs for little pay. The truth is I know people who are wishing they could find a quote un quote bad job, here it is not possible to survive on a $10 an hour job but in some parts of the country that is the best they can get and they’re having a hard time finding it. Note that in smaller sunbelt cities and rural areas rent is $500 a month. You haven’t lived until you’ve worked in a seafood restaurant shucking oysters and working in a kitchen with mostly foreigners and prisoners on work release. You do what you have to do and that is the difference between the successful and the unsuccessful. I feel for the people struggling, who have the bad jobs but they’re not the ones being helped. The most money goes to those not working, who often cheat the system on the side.

  323. veto that says:

    “Do you think that the successes and work of some parents to create a better life for themselves and their kids is inherently unjust?”

    No. Definately not. and i also agree with this:

    “Most of what happens in human life is determined by the cumulative sum of choices made. And that includes generations of family members.”

    So if your parent or grandparent made the wrong choices, you really dont have an equal opportunity and are basically screwed which means there is not really equal opportunity.

  324. Barbara says:

    veto,
    its no longer a situation to crawl out of or overcome, its a culture that would need to be rejected outright. That culture spans neighborhood, politics, family (we have defacto polygamy in the form of baby mommas and baby daddys) art. Pretty hard nut to crack at this point.

  325. SammyG says:

    #326: talking to a co-worker about this stuff. At his church, they provide for the needy. Predetermined amount of food for the week depending on family size. Show up with smokes or a cell phone, no food for you. You have enough for extras, no need for a handout.

    Want to change behavior, more of the above. You want my food & shelter, here are my rules. Don’t like them, find someone else to help you.

    Welfare is as much for the recipients as it is for the people who are employed by the system.

    I wonder when more people are going to look at their tax bill and put it in the shredder.

  326. Shore Guy says:

    “Cleaning toilets”

    Welcome to my first jobs. That and schlepping cartloads of wet and dirty cloth adult diapers to be laundered. Ever wipe another adult’s @ss for them for $.10 above minimum wage? I have.

    I have walked to work because I did not have a car or money for transit. I have eaten a half a packet of ramen for lunch and another for dinner for weeks on end because there was no money for anything else.

    I have shivered in the winter because there was no money to fill the oil tank, and the gallon or two of K-1 we could afford each day would run out while we slept.

    I have seen the sheriff tack a notice on the front door and had no money to afford to burry a parent.

    So, forgive me if I get a bit edgy when someone tells me that I do not afford the struggles of the poor.

  327. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    101.

    Comrade,

    I sent him a letter of support via Congress . org. There is a rally/ tea party in Trenton on 4/15 that Ill try to attend as well for the same purpose.

  328. Shore Guy says:

    “So if your parent or grandparent made the wrong choices, you really dont have an equal opportunity and are basically screwed which means there is not really equal opportunity.”

    I do not mean to be rude, really, but I call bull$hit on the basic premise. Are kids from Beverley Hills and someone from Camden equal? Of course not. There is no way to make them so, and we can’t tax ourselves into the poor house trying. Kids do not choose the families into which they are born. It has ever been thus. What we can do is establish basic opportunities that people will either take advantage of or not. You mother is a crack wh0re? It is a really tough break and my heart goes out to you but the least you can do is stay in school and do your part. If you do, thee will be opportunities for free higher education, as society continues to try and help. But, when people do not do their part, I will not be made to feel sorry for them.

  329. jcer says:

    Veto I for one think there is little genetically that separates the different races it is totally cultural. Parents who instill work ethic in their children and make sure they understand what is needed to succeed fair the best. You can only work with what you are given, some people are “Lucky” and are given a lot either by their parents or inherently. A culture that idolizes thugs coupled with bad parenting is a recipe for disaster. Thug life replaces family. People inherently need direction when they are young, they need to understand that success is attainable on some level. Maybe if your not terribly intelligent your good at art, music, perhaps a trade skill, take what you have however little it is and run with it, work hard at it. This kind of thing needs to come from parents, they need to make their children understand that desirable behaviors are rewarded while negative behaviors are punished. Anytime you read the news about a kid getting shot in the ghetto the parents are always quoted as saying he was a “good kid”. When the reality is he was dealing drugs, parents need to be careful about who their kids hang around with the influences on them and in the ghetto that largely doesn’t occur.

  330. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    103.

    I would encourage you to run if not for Congress perhaps assembly. Adler in District 3 is toast but it looks like the ex football player Runyan will be the opposition.

    Pallone likely will get ousted by Halfacre.

    We really need someone to run against Chris Smith in Dist 4. That fing bum signed the Cap n Trade bill in June. Hes also been in there way to long (1981).

  331. Shore Guy says:

    “the public library”

    These are great equalizers and opportunities for second chances for people who did not take advantage of free public education. I would ensure that every one has multiple internet connections and is open at least 12 hours 7 days a week.

  332. veto that says:

    “How can we possibly expect the 106 million private workers to support everyone else?”

    Juice, this assumes that the private work is productive and profitable.

    But dont you remember when the private sector almost totally collapsed on itself last year because it was plagued with greed, incompetence and miserable failure? The industry that ive dedicated my whole career to nearly came toppling down on my head.

    I dont totally love the bailouts but without govt we would have 50% unemployment right now.

    The private sector is not carrying everyone. Its getting its pants kicked in bye the third world.

    Most of the benefits to the economy are coming from the military. Would be interesting to see where we would be as a country without being in control of the mid east oil.

  333. Shore Guy says:

    Al,

    Just try to picture me in a school gym answering questions from people who want, want, want, and want it to be paid for with fairy dust.

  334. SirRentsalot says:

    shore

    Apologies for harping on this, but

    Current highest federal rate: 35%
    Current highest NJ rate: 10.75%
    SS: 12.4% if you only make $107K, more like 2% if you make $500K
    Medicare: 2.9%
    FUTA/SUTA don’t apply
    AMT means you lose a bunch of deductions, but doesn’t increase the highest marginal rates assumed above.

    so worst case scenario I can come up with is ~51%, and that’s only if we imagine you’re paying the highest marginal federal and state rate from dollar one, which you’re not. What am I missing?

    So, worst case scenario

  335. Juice Box says:

    re: #341 – veto we all know productivity is measured as well as profits.

    My point is the numbers are unsustainable already and are going to get worse. 40+ million indigents and 2.5 workers for everyone retired.

    Something has got to give.

  336. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Guys, guys, guys,

    If I have taught you nothing by example, its that I should have listened to chifi (had temple on my cards J, so fcuk cornell) and not gotten into it with plg. It is a waste of time.

    Further, he doesn’t see the irony in that he is arguing with folks who are putting forth solutions to prop up a system that benefits him.

    If we were truly as he makes us out to be, we’d welcome a brazilification meltdown that would devastate all but the wealthy and rural landowners.

    In that event, plg would be fighting with other urban dwellers for rats and squirrels to eat, or would find himself crossing the perimeter of someone’s nompound, soon to be shot, bound, tossed into the back of a pickup truck, and tied to a tree at the edge of town with a sign around his lifeless neck that says “looter.”

    I have to get back to work now. Someone has to pay for O’s redistributive schemes, and I don’t like the feel of IRS chrome on my wrists.

  337. veto that says:

    “You mother is a crack wh0re? It is a really tough break and my heart goes out to you but the least you can do is stay in school and do your part.”

    Shore, lol. if you really mean this, its pretty hard core of you.

    And i’ll have to admit that i wasnt ready for this type of counter argument because its overwhelmingly insensitive.

    but maybe in the end its the right answer. I dont really know.

    i think i like you more and more with each post.

  338. confused in NJ says:

    At Brooklyn Tech in the late 50’s & 60’s their was an Industrial Processes Teacher named Mr. Heepe. The students for decades use to chant, “I P, U P, We all P for Heepe”. The solution for Mr Heepe may be what Chris is proposing in NJ for the Teachers Union, P on them. Why not, it was good enough for Tech, when it was rated third in the Country.

  339. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    259.

    Hyde,

    “WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO BURN IT DOWN”

    Its going to burn down by itself. Accept it and prepare for it. Pop yourself some popcorn and let the useless eaters do the heavy lifting while you walk off with the cash.

  340. jcer says:

    How about instead of income tax, we slap a 10% tax on goods produced in an unethical fashion, code named chinatariff. Wouldn’t bother me much, I generally try to avoid slave shop produced stuff. Maybe then we could force the chinese to have working conditions in line with what we feel is ethical. It raises revenue in the short term and forces china to built stuff in accordance to our regulations making US industry more competitive with chinese.

  341. plg says:

    Comrade,

    “Further, he doesn’t see the irony in that he is arguing with folks who are putting forth solutions to prop up a system that benefits him.”

    I have a solution to prop up the system too. Tax the Bankers, traders, and other overpaid middlemen types who contribute nothing to the system, but take so much out.

  342. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [351] jcer

    hated to chime in after saying I was out, but you are talking about protectionism.

    Which is consistent with what I said many months ago, that the only way Dear Leader can get his agenda and hope for it to succeed is through protectionism.

    Fact is, protectionism would put people back to work, but at the cost of rampant inflation.

    Got commodities???

    Now I am out. everyone have a great weekend. Even you comrade plg.

  343. Shore Guy says:

    Rents,

    You leave off the employer’s share as well. You can believe or not believe, it makes no difference to me. I see what comes in, and I see what goes out in taxes and we pay over 60% when all is said and done.

    I would LOVE to be at just 50%.

    If you had told me even 10 years ago that we would be in this house, with these cars, with no debts whatsoever (we even overpay credit card bills so they often come in with negative balances)and with THIS INCOME, I would have figured that we would be living high on the hog and feeling darned comfortable. Heck, last year as the bottom fell out, our income increased by double digets.

    When WE are feeling uncertain and uncomfortable, it is a sign that things are rotten to the core. And there is no way to tax ourselves out of a mindset of waste and out-of-control spending.

    I have no problem with our paying our fair share. I am just tired of paying for others’ share too.

  344. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [352] plg

    Better yet, outlaw the bankers, traders and overpaid middlemen.

    Good plan. Let me know how it works for you, comrade.

  345. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    and FCUK CORNELL

  346. Shore Guy says:

    “Its going to burn down by itself”

    Naw. I picture it more like dry rot, where everything looks fine but has become weak and unable to withstand severe stress.

  347. SirRentsalot says:

    shore
    “You leave off the employer’s share as well.”

    No – the numbers I stated included the employer’s share.

  348. jcer says:

    Nom, not actually protectionist. If you want to import from the developed world where they have a reasonable level of environmental and worker protections that is fine no tariff, imports from factories without appropriate safety and environmental records as spelled out in our legislation would be subject to tariff, EVEN if they are IN the US, there needs to be provisions for surprise inspections and punitive penalties for non compliance when your documentation filed shows otherwise. It is not protectionist, it is free trade and it is to ensure that all nations aren’t in a race to the bottom.

  349. Shore Guy says:

    “its pretty hard core of you. ”

    I don’t want people living in the streets, or starving, or going unshod. BUT, for a LONG time we have been pouring money into places, heck FLOODING them with it is more like it, and putting programs in place tohelp people pick themselves up off the ground because generations before them didn’t get a fair break, or mom was a drunk, or whatever.

    Okay, we tried. We had excess money and we tried by throwing cash at a problem. Well, unless someone is motivated to be better than mom or dad, and is willing to put in the time and effort to be, we can spend $1,000,000 a year on his or her education and it will make no difference.

    It comes down to themselves and their parents. Okay, the parents are bad and the kids can’t help it. I understand then either take the kids away or cut off the funding. If some people have totally given up and are beyond hope, why on earth are we spending anything trying to help them succeed? You want to work and be better? Great! I want to help. I can’t do it for youand I don’t owe you either.

  350. Sastry says:

    still_looking aka Tan-Less says:
    March 19, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    “Wasn’t it just under 300 yrs ago folks rose up to start a new country that released them from the slavery of taxation and the oppression of having other’s religions imposed on them?”

    The taxes are going up in terms of increased local traffic tickets, increased public transport costs, etc., that affect lower income people much more. All the while the top marginal tax rates, estate taxes, and capital gains taxes are being reduced. Moreover, rich persons can park their money in off-shore accounts.

    Meanwhile, we have Faux telling church goers what churches they should walk out of, how *all* muslims are bad, and how we are a *christian nation*, blah.

    S

  351. Shore Guy says:

    Rents,

    Maybe you should replace our accountants then. I know what we pay and it is not that low.

  352. Sastry says:

    safe #63…

    same here, tons of documents to get a green card. Lawyer screwed us by moving and not informing USCIS. They asked for an employment letter (verification) and it took us four months to get a copy of the letter (from the day I found out via the electronic notification).

    It’s a mess for legal immigrants, and it is a cake walk for some that circumvent rules of legal immigration (body shops that bend many a rule).

    However, I think legal vs illegal immigration are different issues altogether. If the govt has ba.lls, they’d fine employers of illegal immigrants more. Right now, there is more money to be made in keeping the status quo (by the TV talking heads, by small businesses via unpaid taxes, by corrupt enforcers, local body shops, etc.)

    S

  353. Shore Guy says:

    “we are a *christian nation*, blah”

    Sastry,

    My family has been here since the 1600s. I am Catholic. I am a Republican. Despite all that, this country was NOT founded as a CHristian nation. Yes, many early settlers were members of various Christian sects, and some of our Founding Fathers were theists; a good portion of the founders wer either athiests or diests and knew the dangers of having folks force religion down another’s throat. They were not that far removed from the religious conflicts that ravaged Europe after, after that incident, some cal the Rformation.

  354. Shore Guy says:

    “However, I think legal vs illegal immigration are different issues altogether. If the govt has ba.lls, they’d fine employers of illegal immigrants more.”

    Amen. Say, 20% of the CEO’s salary for each illegal found.

  355. sas says:

    BFF friday.. baby!

    SAS

  356. skep-tic says:

    “I have a solution to prop up the system too. Tax the Bankers, traders, and other overpaid middlemen types who contribute nothing to the system, but take so much out.”

    two problems: #1 the constitution bans bills of attainder. #2 there is a long list of countries who would love to welcome such activity to their shores so any large legal tax you could devise would have diminishing returns at best.

  357. Shore Guy says:

    Advanta Bank Corp., Draper, UT
    Century Security Bank, Duluth, GA
    American National Bank, Parma, OH

  358. Shore Guy says:

    Press Releases
    FDIC Approves the Payout of the Insured Deposits of Advanta Bank Corp., Draper, Utah
    March 19, 2010

    Bank of Upson, Thomaston, Georgia, Assumes All of the Deposits of Century Security Bank, Duluth, Georgia
    March 19, 2010

    The National Bank and Trust Company, Wilmington, Ohio, Assumes All of the Deposits of American National Bank, Parma, Ohio
    March 19, 2010
    http://www.fdic.gov/

  359. Shore Guy says:

    Before heading out to bask in the glory of America in the Obamma years, I leave you with this word from the Gov., who WILL be hated in the short run but has the makings of the greatest Governor we have had in my lifetime:

    http://www.app.com/article/20100318/NEWS03/100319004/Christie-wants-NJ-finances-fixed-even-if-it-costs-him-re-election

  360. Sastry says:

    Shore #362

    Agree fully with you — US is still the best country for immigrants, way more accepting of other religions and cultures (at least on the coasts), and in general is a good place.

    I was just mentioning about Faux’s relentless coverage of sounds from the nether regions of Glenbeckistan.

    S

  361. SirRentsalot says:

    shore
    maybe those bastages are skimming!

  362. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [359] jcer

    “It is not protectionist, it is free trade and it is to ensure that all nations aren’t in a race to the bottom.”

    Uh, isn’t that protectionist? I mean, not close the border protectionism, but it is protectionist to do this.

    I mean, if you aren’t trying to protect something (domestic industry), then why are you doing it?

    You are arguing over degrees, suggesting that trade restrictions must rise to a certain level of exclusion before it can be labeled “protectionist.” I don’t see it that way, and the measures you suggest have been suggested before, for the very purpose of protecting U.S. industry.

    As I said, anything that keeps out exports will spur job creation in the U.S. Simple math. And since our cost of living and doing business is so much higher, it will cause inflation. Again, simple math.

    I just want to know what to expect, and invest accordingly.

  363. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [370] shore

    Not if the Silent Majority gives him full-throated support.

    I want to see the tea partiers picketing union offices. That would be fun.

    Gotta go, night all.

  364. chicagofinance says:

    NJGator says:
    March 19, 2010 at 3:03 pm
    Capoeira and Shockingly Sticky Science available to him.

    gates: it sounds like an STD? :(

  365. chicagofinance says:

    Are you THAT bored?

    plg says:
    March 19, 2010 at 3:56 pm
    jcer, I agree. You take a reasonable approach to the problem. Can I suggest the most inefficient and diastrous use of government money? The trillion or so dollars we have spent killing Arabs in countries that never attacked us.

  366. chicagofinance says:

    DOWN GO THE BADGERS!!!!!!!

    omrade Nom Deplume says:
    March 19, 2010 at 5:13 pm

    and FCUK CORNELL

  367. A.West says:

    I’m more hard core than Shore, but I still like him a lot. I’ve travelled all around the world, and seen people a lot worse off than the US crack whore’s kids. A lot of those kids dream of being a US crack whore’s kids, but didn’t have that good luck. The vast majority of wounds in the US are self-inflicted. Anyway, I have a lot more respect for the poor kids in India scratching up money to learn something to make themselves of use to the global economy than I have for America’s “deprived” kids who are too busy listening to hip hop to bother reading.

    By the way, free libraries existed befor the government created them, mostly funded by the hated rich people, mostly, I imagine. And I’ll give away a free copy of Atlas Shrugged to just about anyone who sincerely wants it.

  368. Shore Guy says:

    Chifi,

    Collegetown will be jumping tonight. Too bad it is not yet warm enough for a run down to Purity.

  369. Sastry says:

    #376

    “Anyway, I have a lot more respect for the poor kids in India scratching up money to learn something to make themselves of use to the global economy…”

    The call center guys are the kids of middle class parents that could afford to get them through private schools. There are too few public schools (the ratio is 100 private to 1 public; same size or some times the public schools are much smaller). You’d need to pay “donations” to get a kid into a good school.

    The guys that get coffee and tea for the call center kids are the ones who pulled themselves up. They make almost nothing in income. Don’t be fooled by Slumdog Millionaire’s Chai Wallah. If the guy could speak English half as well as the Chai Wallah, he’d be managing the call center!

    A.West, you seem to have a very rosy view of how the world is. That’s what happy lives sometimes make people think, and one should feel happy for you. However, sometimes happy lives can make a person completely insensitive towards real-world problems (e.g. discrimination, lack of opportunity, all decks stacked against a kid). In many cases, good people don’t do anything because they think every one is getting a fair deal.

    I grew up in a lower middle class family, and the thing that drove me was my parents’ focus on my education, and the surrounding society’s pressure — because I was born in a “preist’s caste”, I was expected to conform to that expectation (studies, no smokes, no eating meats, no blah…). In retrospect, that was a good thing for me.

    On the other hand, I am sure there are kids that are born in similar circumstances with one or two parameters changed (being born a girl in our neighborhood would have brought major disadvantages).

    Shore, you, and others talk about how you were able to pull yourselves out of trying circumstances. Let me ask one question, what would have been the chances of success, if only one parameter changed: being born black?

    Hell, 1/4 of the population still has *doubts* about where Obama was born, despite confirmations from multiple sources, and smart people that should go on TV and repeatedly say, “Stop it”, aren’t doing so. If racism is still a barrier (minor one though) for an Editor of Harvard Law Review, what chance do inner city kids born with the wrong set of skin pigments in rough neighborhoods stand?

    S

  370. Final Doom says:

    I still can’t believe Alex Chilton died.

  371. leftwing says:

    “Also, its not to say that anyone who grew up in cranford had a situation was automatically rigged to facilitate success. But on the average yes it is true.”

    Success is relative.

    The people in Cranford want to be in Westfield who want to be in Short Hills who want to be in Franklin Lakes who want to be in Alpine who are lightweights because while they have hit the pinnacle they are still just in NJ and have only one secondary house, and not in Tahoe. And none of them is Bill, Serge, or Warren.

    I don’t begrudge those further up the food chain their belongings; if it’s important to me I reach for it and with some hard work and luck I succeed, without, I fail.

    Inequalities will always exist, as will different opportunities even from birth. The Lucky Sp3rm Club is real. Every one of us knows a member.

    The most we can do as a society is to provide a reasonable opportunity for one to attain one’s vision of success, a hand to get him moving again if he falls, and hope for the best. What you do with the rest of your life is up to you, not me.

  372. Sastry says:

    leftwing: the rate of social mobility has reduced substantially over the last few decades. So, the opportunities that were available to one generation earlier have reduced.

    http://www.nytimes.com/pages/national/class/index.html

    There was a theory I read a while about the evolution of caste system in India (weak theory, but makes a point). At one point, the castes were professions, and birth didn’t decide where one ended up (it was only based on aptitude, hard work, etc.) At one point, the guys who were in power decided to rig the game and made sure their kids got preferential treatment, and it went down the drain enough for it to be “only birth based” and had all types of “privileges” (or lack of) associated with it. Soon, only marriages within the caste were allowed, and …

    If only docs’ kids become docs, and they only marry docs, and the MCATs and admission policies are rigged to admit only docs’ kids?

  373. leftwing says:

    Basic human nature, econ 101:

    If you subsidize something, you get more of it.

    If you tax it, you get less.

    “But most of the disadvantaged are unfit to be parents…”

    Why are we providing huge subsidies to unfit parents?

  374. veto that says:

    “My family has been here since the 1600s.”

    Shore i trace back to 1600’s in america as well. 1200s if i go back to england / scotland but thats by skipping over 200 years of missing info.

    I agree with your 359. you make a strong case.
    Like i said i see both sides of the debate. It makes it all the more complicated and as much as i can sympathize and understand the complications, of course it still boils my blood to pay the tax man.

  375. leftwing says:

    “Are you kidding? You just happened to have been born into the most spoiled, advantaged generation in the history of the world. It was luck! You think you work hard? Try growing up in Bangladesh! ”

    By your logic, we should take the belongings of the residents of Newark, however meager, and distribute them to the residents of Bangladesh until there is ‘fairness’ among the two groups.

    Watch how quickly Newark residents go ‘Red’ on that suggestion….

  376. Sastry says:

    #384, I still like to find ways to reduce my tax bill. But, I am also inclined to speed a little (tough though on my ’96 Corolla).

    But I fully support the laws that make the roads safer from maniac drivers like me, and I support higher taxes and closing of loopholes (for greedy people like me), especially if the alternative is Indianization of Brazilization of US.

    The economics 101: what is good at the individual level need not necessarily be good at the population level. I’d like to pay no tax, ever, but if everyone does the same, the outcome will be horrible.

  377. Shore Guy says:

    “Shore, you, and others talk about how you were able to pull yourselves out of trying circumstances. Let me ask one question, what would have been the chances of success, if only one parameter changed: being born black”

    I have a story to tell you:

    I scored very well on the LSATs. A friend who is black literally got a score less than half of mine. He was offered a full ride for law school. You tell me who was disadvantaged in that circumstance.

  378. njescapee says:

    the poor guy says tax the rich guy, the rich guy says tax the smoker, the smoker says tax the drinker, the drinker says tax the fat guy, the fat guy says tax the rich guy. bottom line: don’t tax me, tax the guy behind that tree.

  379. Outofstater says:

    The northeast seems to have a caste system of its own, based on what town you live in and the differences can be striking, even in towns that are very close geographically. In other parts of the country, most towns have a mixture of income levels and one cannot usually determine another’s social class by their town of residence. Quick, think of residents of these towns. First, Westfield. Now, Linden. See?

  380. plg says:

    A.West,

    “free libraries existed befor the government created them”

    Really? Ones that were open to the public? Open to a children of all colors?

    Don’t think so.

  381. leftwing says:

    “Have you ever imagined what your life would be like cleaning toilets at a rest stop or being a home health aide?”

    Had a paper route that spanned four miles (poorer rural area) in early grammar school. Lied about my age in the sixth grade to get a work permit in a bakery, hours 4am-11am Sats and Suns and cleanup each weekday after school. First fist fight I got in was over that job. Parked my broken up bike outside the bakery while I went in the front door to unlock the side door where I was to enter, bike was being taken apart. Couldn’t let that happen since it was my only way to work. Stepped in, kept the frame, wheels and chain, left a front tooth.

    Went on to work in a janitorial company cleaning doctors office including, yes, toilets during HS.

    Put myself through college with more work study than I ever thought possible. Fulfilled my outside of major requirements with soft classes taken pass/fail so I could get more hours in working at the dining hall. Had a tough time travelling during the winter because my POS clunker had rusted out floorboards and the stolen DPW signs laid on the floor still allowed airflow. Graduated with massive student loans that I had to defer paying twice due to economic circumstances.

    I came from a rural area with a median income well below the national average. I realize it’s not downtown Newark nor even close to what others on this board experienced. I acknowledge and appreciate the role of the ‘helping hands’ I got along the way, including the government assistance so I could work, borrow, and repay to invest in my future.

    I know my background makes me ‘lucky’ relative to some and ‘unlucky’ relative to probably an equal number.

    But if one of you has the b@11s to ascribe my current success to luck rather than the choices I made to my face you will be at the receiving end of the beating I got in the sixth grade over that bike.

  382. plg says:

    Shore Guy,

    I am not saying we should just take money from the rich and give it to the poor, but we should facilitate opportunity for people. There are many ways we do that. Christie is doing his best to crush those opportunities.

    For example, NJ transit provides transportation for all kinds of people. It should be subsidized so that no matter what people can get to work if they need to. The cost of buying and mantaining a car is a steep barrier to opportunity for many people. NJ transit is a resource to facilitate opportunity. (aside from the environmental, quality of life, and increase in real estate value benefits)

    Rutgers should be subsidized so no one has an excuse not to get a college education. Right now we make it quite difficult to obtain a college degree. It costs about 100K at a PUBLIC institution. That is a crime!

    These are two examples of Christies priorities being way out of wack. We are crushing opportunity for the poor and middle class.

  383. imkeithhernandez says:

    have there really been “barriers” put up for obama? he’s the president of the most powerful country in the world- how much higher can he really rise from here?

    yes, there are people who are rascist but that doesn’t necessarily mean that that racism will be an impediment for a member of that group… heck, there’s a boatload of anti-semites but it hasn’t really stopped jews from achieving success, no?

  384. Shore Guy says:

    ” we should facilitate opportunity for people”

    Sure thing. I agree. Just like leftwing’s work study. I am all for spending money to help give opportunities to those who are willing to work hard and make the most of them. The people who want without working for it, not so much, no.

    We spend, what is it, $25,000 per student in Camden? And people have the gall to say society is holding back Camden High students? I guarantee you, any kid who excells there and graduates will not need to write a tuition check to any school.

  385. NJGator says:

    Uh oh. I think we’re in trouble…

    Montclair in shock over cuts in state aid

    Montclair officials are expressing dismay at Gov. Chris Christie’s plan to cut state aid to New Jersey’s municipalities by $275 million.

    Last year, Montclair received $3.8 million in aid from Trenton; this year’s amount will be less than $3 million.

    The news “hit me like a ton of bricks,” said Township Manager Marc Dashield, reached by phone this afternoon.

    Dashield, who took the helm of Montclair’s municipal government in February, was already facing a roughly $2 million revenue shortage. The added $834,429 deficit makes matters “more difficult,” he said.

    “I’m a little speechless. I’ve never, ever seen it this bad,” Dashield said.

    Montclair school officials are still reeling from Christie’s decision to slash $819 million from state aid to schools, which would affect the Montclair School District by $5.4 million.

    Mayor Jerry Fried, who has had few kind words for the governor, said Christie could have restored state aid to municipalities if he had not decided to plow ahead with $1 billion in tax cuts for the wealthy.

    “It’s very disappointing,” Fried said.

    Municipal officials have yet to publicly debate the 2010 municipal budget, aside from general warnings that it may bring reductions in all but essential areas. The municipality’s workforce has been warned that layoffs may be imminent.

    Councilwoman Kathryn Weller-Demming said Christie will have to “rethink” his decision to slash aid to municipalities. New Jersey’s towns and cities may not be able to function otherwise, Weller-Demming said.

    “He’s going to force us into a double-digit tax increase. It’s unconscionable,” she said.

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/88616537_Montclair_in_shock_over_cuts_in_state_aid.html

  386. Shore Guy says:

    “Uh oh. I think we’re in trouble”

    We’re I trouble.
    Right here in Montclair City
    Oh! We’re in trouble.
    We’re in terrible, terrible trouble.
    The Governor’s budget cuts
    Are the devil’s tool

    Oh! We’re in trouble
    Got to find a way to keep
    Over funding our city’s schools

  387. NJGator says:

    Christie: High police salaries ‘can’t be sacrosanct’ in budget-cutting process

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/030910_Christie_High_police_salaries_arent_sacrosanct_in_budget-cutting_process.html

  388. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Let Montlair sink into the sea. Its a fing sh#thole anyway.

    Economic triage. The bottom 25% leeches must go so we can save the other 75%.

    Tough sh#t Montclair.

  389. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Down here in Ocean County Brick, Toms River we are having our state aid cut and we are happy about it. No whining down here.

    Voting down public education budgets is a municipal sport.

    Muahahaha. Fing losers.

    Monmouth and Ocean County really need to secede from this state of whiney pieces of sh#t.

  390. plg says:

    Shore Guy,

    But if you agree that we should provide opportunity how do you justify Christie’s dramatic cuts to NJ Transit and Rutgers? I mean these are avenues for the poor and middle class and for those “willing to work hard.”

    These are not “freeloader” type welfare services. These are services that help the middle class and poor get to work and better themselves through education. Particularly in a recession these are services that are needed more than ever.

    Getting back to the original theme of this thread, this is not “shared sacrifice.” Lets say you are a teacher, getting a grad degree at Rutgers, commuting to work and school on NJ transit. This is someone willing to work hard, but who just got wacked with a new 1.5% contribution to healthcare, a 25% transportation increase and a similar tuition increase. (I know someone in this exact situation) That adds up to a solid 3-5, maybe 10% of their income? Who else is sacrificing on that level? No one!

  391. Al "The Thermostat" Gore says:

    Plg,

    Guess what. If you are paying a premium to commute and attend Rutgers you are an idiot.

    Its an overpriced sh#tbox. Better off getting an online degree like every other superintendent in the state.

  392. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Al Gore:

    You OK tonite big guy? Montclair is not that bad. There are some good places to eat in town. Most people are nice hard working middle class in my hood.

    Most of the stupid nouveau riche people live in Upper Montclair.

  393. NJGator says:

    Ahem PLG – I am sacrificing that much. I’m paying that same 25% fare increase. Salary is frozen for the second year straight. Tuition reimbursement completely gone at work. Fitness reimbursement 40% reduced. Healthcare premiums up 20% with reduced benefits and higher out of pocket. Pension frozen and 401k contribution cut in half. And now my town councilperson is using an 800k municipal aid cut as an excuse for an double digit tax increase.

  394. NJGator says:

    All Hype – Stu’s new favorite recession special – $5.95 large pizza at Soho. I forget where he got the coupon.

  395. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Gator:

    Myself and Mrs. Hype ate at AlPizz on North Willow. It is the best pizza I have had in a good long time.

    Granted, it is pretty expensive but it is the most authentic Neopolitan pizza I have had in the state.

  396. Stu says:

    I think I’d rather eat 2.5 Soho pizzas which are slightly better than mediocre than 1 AlPizz pizza that is far superior.

    Perhaps for my birthday, I’ll splurge

  397. Fabius Maximus says:

    #378 JuiceBox

    Forget Chris Dodd, this is the funniset I have seen JS in a long time.

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-march-18-2010/conservative-libertarian

  398. Barbara says:

    380.
    Final Doom

    re: Chilton

    I have friends in Austin. He was a couple days away from the South by South West festival, its all everyone is talking about according to the FB posts.

  399. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Stu:

    Let me know when you are going to AlPizz. I will walk down the street to join you.

  400. Stu says:

    Sure All Hype.

  401. NJGator says:

    Mom of octuplets may lose home to foreclosure
    Foreclosure proceedings are starting on Nadya Suleman’s California home

    http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/35951890/ns/today-today_people/

  402. Final Doom says:

    Gator (395)-

    This year’s version of “we couldn’t possibly have seen this coming”:

    “Last year, Montclair received $3.8 million in aid from Trenton; this year’s amount will be less than $3 million.

    The news “hit me like a ton of bricks,” said Township Manager Marc Dashield, reached by phone this afternoon.”

    Please wake me up when it’s time to dust off my grenade launcher.

  403. Final Doom says:

    Want to smack me with a big tax increase?

    Guess what? You can have my fcuking house and my office building. Take them for the taxes…and I hope they rot and fall on some fat municipal leeches’ heads.

    After the bank runs, the tax revolts will be like church socials.

  404. Fabius Maximus says:

    Lots to comment on here.

    Nom, can you add my letter to your pile. Although I don’t think it will be complimentary, it will be more along the lines of, did you discover the medical weed stash, because you must have been smoking the Gange to come up with this. I get all the rehetoric on union reform and reducing state excess, but this budget just stuck a big one in the middle class corn hole.

    The more I look at that education budget spreadsheet, the more I see towns that are debted up with senior centers, new schools and an excess of municipal services seem to get an easier ride than the ones that were more fiscally conservative but as a result, end up with the BOE budget as a high percentatage of overall tax got shafted.

    The peoples republic of Montclair has an intersting side note. Do the ones in Upper Montclair really care as they will be paying the nut for the likes of Kimberley.

  405. Final Doom says:

    gator (395)-

    She says this like it’s a bad thing.

    Who needs cops in Montklair, anyway? Doesn’t everybody know Capoeira (is that Portuguese for bitch-slap fighting?)?

    “Councilwoman Kathryn Weller-Demming said Christie will have to “rethink” his decision to slash aid to municipalities. New Jersey’s towns and cities may not be able to function otherwise, Weller-Demming said.”

  406. Fabius Maximus says:

    Stu/Gary,

    Wyckoff has a $5 pizza every day, no coupons/no delivery. Although the guy has to close to make room for the new ShopRite.

  407. Fabius Maximus says:

    #403 Gator

    Healthcare and Salary freeze make a point, tuition and fitness are like complaining your moccha frappachino has gone up 50c.

  408. Stu says:

    “Do the ones in Upper Montclair really care as they will be paying the nut for the likes of Kimberley.”

    I see it this way. The majority of the town is fed up, but the town council is always made up of representatives who more resemble the average Upper Montclair resident. Who in their right mind has the amount of free time to dedicate to one of these positions. I tend town council meetings on occasion and they are usually 3 to 4 hours long. My guess is that they must spend at least 4 times that amount of time every week for four years for $4,000 per year (or close to that). You don’t get a lot of poor folk who have that kind of time.

    The town council tends to be a mix of rich white men and retired black men who used to serve in the municipal government who will now be rich black men with their fantastic pensions.

  409. Final Doom says:

    The school board dunces in my district are finally growing a pair. First to go are administrators and vice-principals.

    I’d really love for a couple of these fat fcuks to shoot me a resume.

  410. Stu says:

    Clot…you make me laugh.

  411. Final Doom says:

    Stu (418)-

    More excellent evidence for why we need to vote with bullets.

  412. cobbler says:

    When sharing the stories about pulling ourselves out of the muck by the bootstraps, still need to remember that to achieve success one needs to be at least 2 out of the 3 things: hard-working, lucky and smart. If you are all 3, you are awesome. However, if you got only 1 of these, too bad… All the talk about opportunity doesn’t work if one’s brain is unfit of taking advantage of it…

  413. Final Doom says:

    Stu (420)-

    It’s not me; it’s the Knob Creek talking.

  414. Final Doom says:

    cobbler (422)-

    Is this the preface to your sob story, or are you about to tell us which A&P to come visit you at tomorrow?

  415. Final Doom says:

    Cobbler, your manager called.

    There’s been a lobster breakout in the walk-in fridge.

  416. Barbara says:

    At this point, the debate and the ideologies are insignificant. Its like going to the Mercedes dealer and ranting about how you can’t afford one of their cars. We’re broke. Next.

  417. Final Doom says:

    Barb drives to the basket and throws it down.

  418. Final Doom says:

    Call me jaded, but most of these Final Four teams look like Hickory HS. I keep waiting for Gene Hackman to call timeout.

  419. Stu says:

    Regulators shut 7 banks in 5 states; 37 in 2010

    Regulators shut banks in Alabama, Georgia, Minnesota, Ohio and Utah; makes 37 this year.

    Cost to FDIC around 1.4 billion. Small beans I suppose.

  420. Fabius Maximus says:

    #345 Nom

    “Further, he doesn’t see the irony in that he is arguing with folks who are putting forth solutions to prop up a system that benefits him.”

    Don’t see many solutions being put out here outside of Trickle down and burn it down.

    My biggest issue here is that CC plan just doesn’t make sense. This is a big big problem, and 5 months after election day we get a knee jerk budget. regardless of the assembly, half of his cuts won’t make it through the courts.
    Not funding the Pensions is just more fuel on the fire. The budget defecit is not due to local town taxes. “Setting the stage for Reform ™” can wait until next year. This year focus on “stem the bleeding”. The towns will hurt with aid cuts, putting the 2.5% handcuffs on just exaerbates the problem.

    Start with 10c on the gas. A consumption tax that will take us closer to the national median. Do we need the cheapest gas in the nation? use some of that to offset the transit hikes.

  421. NJGator says:

    Hundreds of teachers protest 5 potential pension, medical benefit bills

    Teachers around North Jersey, in Passaic, Paterson and Wayne, hit the streets after class to protest five pension and medical benefit bills making their way through Trenton.

    In Wayne, more than 400 teachers from several school districts lined up along Route 46 outside the offices of Assemblyman Scott Rumana, R-Wayne, and Senator Kevin O’Toole, R-Cedar Grove.

    Teachers carried signs that declared “Teachers are not the problem” and “vote no.’’ They urged Rumana to vote against the pension reform bills and opposed recently announced state school-aid cuts.

    Rumana was not able to attend the rally but said he would meet with local union leaders next week.

    In Passaic, more than 50 members of the Passaic Education Association gathered in front of the office of Assemblyman Gary Schaer, D-Passaic, to voice their anger over the bills, which they said will cut their pensions.

    An Assembly committee Thursday advanced five bills that would reform taxpayer-funded pensions and benefits for public workers. Elements of those bills, which will be up for a vote in the Assembly on Monday, are sprawling. Some highlights include:

    * Limiting the pension system enrollment to new full-time employees for the state or 32 hours for local government and schools.
    * Require all workers with more than one public job to receive a pension for only one job.
    * Require all public employees to pay at least 1.5 percent of their salary toward health benefits.
    * Limit sick leave payouts for all new local and school employees to $15,000.
    * Require new local and school employees to work at least 25 hours per week to quality for health benefits.

    In Wayne, protesters targeted the governor’s tactics.

    Keith Parian, a Wayne Valley High School history and social science teacher, said the governor is forcing through the legislation without collective bargaining and is making teachers scapegoats for the state’s fiscal trouble.

    Schuyler-Colfax Middle School math teacher Kathy Hanenberg objected to Christie’s decision to allow the so-called millionaire’s tax to expire, while reducing money to school districts.

    “His tax cuts for people making $400,000 or more dollars could have covered what he took from the public schools,’’ Hanenberg said.

    Pompton Lakes teachers union president Deanne Martini said the governor has engaged in “blatant and forceful attacks” against teachers.

    “I understand the state is in a crisis but we didn’t create it, we are not the cause of it, Martini said. “Making us pay for everyone else’s mistake is not fair and we are not going to stand for it.’’

    She also objected to comparison’s between teachers and people who work in the private sector.

    “We don’t get paid a private-sector salary,’’ Martini said. “In the 90s, when everyone got rich, my salary stayed status quo. If my salary was dependent on the economy I would have gotten rich in the 90s like everyone else, so you can’t make me pay now when there is a recession.’’

    Steve Boudalis, Passaic Education Association president, urged the crowd gathered in the city to prepare to protest in Trenton on Monday.

    “This is not a short battle and we’re in it for the long haul,” Boudalis said. “And, we’re going to win.”

    Schaer said he would work with the unions.

    “We have a common agenda,” Schaer said. “We’re in this together.”

    Members raised home-made signs that read: “Teachers are the solution, not the problem” and “We did nothing wrong.”

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/88691387_Hundreds_of_teachers_protest_5_potential_pension_medical_benefit_bills.html

  422. Final Doom says:

    Biggus Dickus (430)-

    Burn the mofo down. Burn, baby, burn!!! Make the leeches eat Friskies, and drive the sekretariat into poverty.

    Need a job, Mr. Diversity Officer? Grab a pick, and bust some rocks.

    What doesn’t make sense? That we are going to stop spending money we don’t have? You don’t wean an addict incrementally. You take away the pipe, and lock him in a rubber room.

    Don’t worry; after a few weeks, you’ll get past your DTs.

  423. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [381] leftwing

    “The people in Cranford want to be in Westfield who want to be in Short Hills ”

    FWIW, I could afford short hills. I didn’t want it. I would rather live with people who want to be in short hills than the folks I actually saw there.

    Summit, short hills. Feh. If I lived there, I would have probably opened up someone’s skull with a 2 iron by now.

    I have only known 2 people (couple, really) from Mass. that wanted to live in short hills. I didn’t think much of them then, and I don’t now.

    I guess it is because short hills attracts a certain type of person, and not only am I not that type of person, I am mildly sickened by them.

  424. njescapee says:

    Barron’s Cover | MONDAY, MARCH 15, 2010
    The $2 Trillion Hole
    By JONATHAN R. LAING | MORE ARTICLES BY AUTHOR(S)

    Promised pensions benefits for public-sector employees represent a massive overhang that threatens the financial future of many cities and states

    http://online.barrons.com/article/SB126843815871861303.html?mod=BOL_hpp_emr#articleTabs_panel_article%3D3%26articleTabs%3Dcomments

  425. Final Doom says:

    The only thing better than Christie’s budget is the prospect of the whole gubmint shutting down while they fight it in the Legislature.

    That would be the best outcome.

    In a lot of Southern states, legislatures only convene 5-6 weeks out of the year. I’d like for NJ to move to that schedule.

  426. safeashouses says:

    #431 Gator,

    These teachers are so fcuking shameless. Crying because they can only get 15k for any unused sick days when they retire. Having to pay 1.5% of their gross for their health benefits, ending the bs of multiple public pensions, and actually requiring someone to be a full time employee to collect a pension. Cry me a river. I doubt less than 10% of these whiners could get a job or start a business that would pay them what they make as a teacher.

    I got paid zero for my sick days in the private world. I had to use or lose my vacation time, I was paying 8% of my gross for my health benefits, I had zero job security. These blood suckers are bankrupting us. Teachers used to be low paid but that was offset with their benefits and pension plan. When the 18-5 law was passed in NJ in the 80’s that set the minimum salary for a public school teacher at 18,500 a year teachers salaries shot up and have outpaced inflation ever since.

  427. Shore Guy says:

    “to achieve success one needs to be at least 2 out of the 3 things: hard-working, lucky and smart. If you are all 3, you are awesome”

    Indeed. In the final analysis, onceone meets a certain basic level of intelligence, hard work is more important than brain power, in many instances. Luck, well, sometimes good luck is working hard, preparing, and taking a chance; sometimes it is just, well, luck.

  428. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [432] fabe

    if all you see is trickle down, you are not paying attention.

    As for the cuts, I applaud them, even though it may hurt me. That is because a principle of conservatism is to vest decision-making, benefit, and responsibility in the same spheres, which is local if the benefit is local.

    The teachers all byatching about Trenton cutting their aid are bleating to the wrong crowd. Teachers in Montklair and Wayne get zero sympathy from me because they do nothing but take my taxes.

    Christie hasn’t said that they can’t have all the money they want; he said look to your own voters and taxpayers for it. As for the cap, there will be an override mechanism. So if Wayne wants to tax the shiite out of itself, it can. And I have no problem with that. Further, by forcing these issues to the local level, the localities are forced to confront their own priorities. Why should they have choices and expect me to fund them.

    Further, this doesn’t really hamstring big spenders like you. Write a check. I’ll even deliver it. Just don’t expect me to join you in your largesse.

    ATEOTD, tax policy and politics are a highly evolved form of organized crime. Your gang has shaken mine down for years. Now we are fighting back. Time to go to the mattresses.

  429. Fabius Maximus says:

    #156 leftwing

    Please take this in the sprit intended, but this is a great description of a “social liberal”. Welcome to the club.

    “From that, the governement takes only what is necessary to provide certain very limited functions and only at the most basic level.

    Defense (self, not the world’s police force), infrastructure (which doesn’t include bridges to nowhere or bike shacks), education (to become a functioning member of society, which does not require $18k per head in Newark).

    There should be a social safety net for the truly destitute that provides short term assistance for the basics – food, healthcare. Long term, work for it, or work for the government to continue to receive the good graces of your fellow citizens keeping you alive.”

    One of the tenets of social liberals is the right to work and a living wage. A lot of people forget that this has been in place for years in the US for the younger generations. But in the past decade the message has been corrupted There was always a way out of the ghetto in going into the National Guard and building and repairing NOLA levess or NJ shore beaches. Or sign up for a few tours in the services and get an education.

    The biggets problem today is that there is a generation between 50 and retirement that are getting thrown on scrap heap.

  430. safeashouses says:

    I took the wife and littlersafe to Turtle Back Zoo. The bugaboo pushing, pony tail through the baseball cap wearing, naming their demon spawn things like Finley and Graydon were out in force and traveling in packs.

    I loathe that group. They always look at me when I tell them I’m from Long Branch as if I had just said I had surgery to remove 3 gerbils and my car keys out or my a$$.

  431. Final Doom says:

    I would love for my sport to empty this world-class moron’s pockets…and I believe I have a reasonable chance of seeing it happen:

    (ESPN, 3-19-10)- “American rap star P-Diddy is considering using his vast wealth to buy struggling Championship club Crystal Palace (yes that P-Diddy) because he likes the name, according to a report in The Sun this week.

    The hip-hop mogul “plans to put the Cristal into Crystal Palace” and according to what the newspaper refers to as ‘a UK spokesman’, the New Yorker has dismissed Fratton Park in favour of Selhurst Park. “Diddy was in London meeting football fixers a couple of weeks ago,” a source said. “The finance is in place, he’s just deciding who he thinks he’ll make a bid for. Portsmouth were mentioned but he thought Palace were a better idea. He could cover their debt and bankroll a return to the Premier League. He liked the name as well.”

    The Eagles would surely welcome such a bizarre investment given that the club is bankrupt and facing relegation after having ten points docked for going into administration.”

  432. Shore Guy says:

    “Limit sick leave payouts”

    Sick leave is for,

    say it with me,

    when… one… is…

    sick.

    It is not extra vacation. Do you know whay one calls someone who does not get sick?

    Lucky!

  433. Final Doom says:

    Crystal Palace has been a side full of wankers for over 30 years. The only place in London to find more lowlife than a CP game is the dog track.

  434. safeashouses says:

    Also there would be few to none layoffs if the teachers and other “public servants” would agree to a salary freeze and paying 1.5 to 3% of their benefits. But no. The people who are supposed to serve the community and educate our children are so fcuking selfish they would rather throw the new people under the bus then forgo a raise.

  435. Final Doom says:

    Shore (437)-

    You- of all people- should know there’s no such thing as luck.

  436. Final Doom says:

    plume (438)-

    Damn straight. I’m armed to the teeth, so call me if you need a hand. These crooks will back down right quick if a couple of them get handed a closed-casket funeral.

    “ATEOTD, tax policy and politics are a highly evolved form of organized crime. Your gang has shaken mine down for years. Now we are fighting back. Time to go to the mattresses.”

  437. Shore Guy says:

    “ng Branch as if I had just said I had surgery to remove 3 gerbils and my car keys out or my a$$”

    I always thought that was a common procedure up in LB. Well, the gerbils, anyay. The keys, I always associated with keyport.

  438. Shore Guy says:

    Gator,

    Did they cut the number of hot-stone massages each month ? That would be a real sin.

  439. Barbara says:

    Never understood the fascination with ShortHills. The houses and neighborhoods are very ordinary. No big whoop.

  440. safeashouses says:

    #447 Shore Guy,

    I think that procedure may be prevalent in parts of Asbury Park and Ocean Grove.

    And keys, well real LBers don’t need car keys to start a car.

  441. Barbara says:

    but my husband always has to remind me that people like ordinary and that I’m the weirdo.

  442. safeashouses says:

    #449 Barbara,

    The people make it special.

  443. Barbara says:

    oic

  444. Final Doom says:

    safe (452)-

    Hell is other people.

    -Sartre

  445. Barbara says:

    and Beckett said that Hell is
    “adieu”

  446. Fabius Maximus says:

    #438 Nom

    But the point here, is that what he has proposed with pensions and salaries, will be held up in the courts for months and not years.

    Stu makes a great point here in that unless the rubber meets the road and gets traction, he is just spinning in the wind.

    Looking at his numbers, Revenue is down and unemplyment is soaring. There is triage to be done, collective bargaining agreements and pension obligations cannot be changed overnight. His proposals is taking the paitent making some big incisions that will make the paitent bleed out.

    On a side not Public Advocates get hammered in FY11. More lawyers out on the street.

  447. Barbara says:

    but I digress

  448. safeashouses says:

    #454 Doom,

    Right on.

  449. Fabius Maximus says:

    #441/443

    I lived down the Palace at one point and got to see Ian Wright / Mark Bright palying their best, they were not wankers.

    Simon Jordan was fun, taking the Mark Cuban approach to the FA.

  450. Fabius Maximus says:

    #454

    Hui Clos, you have taste.

  451. Looks like these guys have plenty of outsourcing opportunities available.

  452. Cody Baldo says:

    I see an excellent progress in your writing, I would really like to get in touch. Keep up the perfect work! Your article is really inspirational for somebody who is new to this type of stuff.

  453. Lee Sayavong says:

    I must say, I really enjoy this site. Could tell me how I can keeping up to date with it?

  454. Online shopping is rapidly becoming the first choice of people in the world for modernized or traditional shopping. Gradually, online shopping is being accepted as the new and fashionable way of shopping. It is becoming popular because people have many other things to do in their busy life and shopping online saves time in numerous ways.

  455. I’ve bookmarked this because I found it funny. I would be extremely interested to hear more info on this. Thanks!

  456. Thank you for a great post

  457. Anna Nejman says:

    good share, very useful info thx

  458. Sexshop says:

    Thank you for writing this good blogposting. I genuinely much like the design which you use to compose about points. It had been quite informative and I would like to thank you you for thaking the time to compose about this. Many persons would explain this stuff so a lot more complicated, but with your statements I actually understand now every thing. I am certain I’ll examine back your site and my rss reader will like your stuff too.

  459. I found your site via google thanks for the post. I will bookmark it for future reference. Thanks Stock Market Forum

  460. I really like this post and hope to read more like it.

  461. Andrew Pelt says:

    Find the Best car donation charity,Donate Your Car to a Vehicle Donation Charity.

  462. Hello. Great job. I did not expect this on a Wednesday. This is a great story. Thanks!

  463. Janina Tarin says:

    Thought provoking post. Thanks. You have brought some clarity to something I have been trying to figure out.

  464. Good post, thanks

  465. Hassan Hirao says:

    I am really not really 100% certain that credit card debt settlement is the best way to go however , I have been beginning to believe more and more about it supported on what I’ve been examining. I could proclaim that eleminating 45% of my own unsecured debt approximately will be a terrific comfort.

  466. Interesting, your’s is the second site today that I’ve visited with this opportunity. I’ll keep an eye on it.

  467. I have a Win7 Ultimate machine with multiple video cards and 3 displays. Within the past few months an issue arose where when logging in in the morning my displays are rearranged. Let me describe my setup. I have 2×22″ monitors on the desk with a 40″ on the wall. The monitor assignment is as followed. Monitor ID 1 is the center monitor, monitor 2 is the Right 40″ monitor. Monitor 3 is on the left and is the other 22″. So its like this. Monitor3 Monitor1&Monitor2 | ( Monitor3 is Primary/main ) Monitor3 needs to set to primary/main display and on the left side. Monitor1 and Monitor2 are Cloned (same display on both) and are on the right and are not primary. Monitor1 and Monitor2 on the same video card and Monitor3 is on it own. The 2 video cards are the following models: GeForce 8400 GS and GeForce 9500 GT. This use to not be an issue until about a month or so ago. The issue is as followed: After logging out and then logging back on the monitor show up like this: Monitor1&Monitor2 Monitor3 | ( Monitor is set to Primary/main ) SO… I have to go into display properties and move 3 to the left and set it to primary/main EVERY morning. and it getting old. I can not find any related forum posts addressing this issue. PLEASE Help

  468. Fantastic read, I just handed this onto a colleague who was doing a little researching on that. And he actually bought me lunch because I found it for him…. smile.. So let me rephrase that: Thanks for lunch!But yeah Cheers for taking the time to discuss this, I feel strongly about it and really like learning more on this topic. If possible, as you gain expertise, would you mind updating your blog with more information? It is extremely helpful for me.

  469. Keep working ,great job!

  470. haha … the one who is posting the comments :D

  471. This is the very thing that I want

  472. My Money is on Argentina Winning this year….I think Messi is really going to step up….He is the best player in the world…..and i know many people think other wise,and it would be interesting to who you folks think is the best player

  473. Great blog. I like the way you have it laid out. How can I subscribe to RSS? Thanks. Cartucce

  474. se nuke says:

    This is a great article. I have now left the rat race, never to look back. You’re right that the only way to make any decent money is by running your own business!

  475. I’m amazed at the level and top quality of articles you’ve put on your site, that you simply love to create truly comes through. Grabbed the Feed, thank you!

  476. From the man page for sudoers (RHEL5.4), I notice that the default value for stay_setuid flag is ‘OFF’. In RHEL4.8, th man pages don’t specify the…

  477. It looks like you’ve attracted a pretty good following these days. I’m delighted to see it!

  478. You’ve surely resulted in pretty otherwise engaged you can make in the foregoing excellent weblog, Right into a very intriguing from study. Can’t simply wait to see that which you write an article in the following last seven days. Howdy for the huge discussion, and yet Been so over saturated really compassionate these pointers site, along with you start this excellent, as well as the fantastic reviews all the other folks showed, will definitely support families choose reside it’s the proper choice for you personally. Is the very bestissue.

  479. Truly actually great website publish which has got me considering. I never looked at this from your point of view.

Comments are closed.