2.5% Cap – But will it pass?

From the Philly Inquirer:

Christie urges sweeping changes to cap property taxes

Gov. Christie unveiled a sweeping package of proposals Monday aimed at solving the state’s “property-tax crisis,” minutes after Democratic legislative leaders proposed reinstating an income-tax surcharge on residents who earn more than $1 million a year.

On a day of especially sharp exchanges among political leaders, and with the deadline for a completed state budget less than two months away, the governor said his plan would require passage of 33 pieces of legislation. At its heart: a constitutional amendment to place a 2.5 percent cap on increases in property-tax levies for municipal, school, and county taxes.

Governments could exceed the cap with voter approval; the only other exception would be for debt-service payments. Currently, the state has a 4 percent cap, but many more exceptions are permitted.

The legislation, Christie said, “will for the first time deal with the root causes of New Jersey’s property-tax problem.” Property taxes in New Jersey are among the highest in the nation.

“We cannot any longer have business as usual in this town,” Christie said. “We believe these reforms present us with both a unique opportunity and a unique solution to finally getting at the root of the things” that can make New Jersey unaffordable.

Other bills in the package would cap state spending, excluding aid to municipalities and school districts and direct property-tax relief, at 2.5 percent; prevent arbitrators from awarding contracts that exceed 2.5 percent, including salaries, benefits, and other economic compensation; allow counties and municipalities to opt out of civil service; and move school and fire elections to November.

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396 Responses to 2.5% Cap – But will it pass?

  1. grim says:

    From the APP:

    Red Bank tells employees layoffs come June 1 unless unions OK furloughs

    Borough employees have received layoff notices which will be effective June 1 if the two employee unions don’t agree to voluntary furloughs to help erase a $302,000 budget gap.

    The question of whether the Communications Workers of America and Policeman’s Benevolent Association locals will agree to furloughs to save jobs remains unanswered.

    “We’ve received no formal answer to our request to the unions,” Mayor Pasquale “Pat” Menna said Monday night. “Everyone got lay off notices in their last check. If there are no furloughs, lay-offs start June 1.”

    Department heads will decide who goes and stays, Menna said.

  2. grim says:

    From HousingWire:

    Fannie Mae Foreclosures Nearly Double in Q110

    The amount of foreclosures held by the government-sponsored enterprise (GSE) Fannie Mae nearly doubled from 2009.

    According to the quarterly earnings report filed for Q110, Fannie Mae holds more than $11.4bn in single-family foreclosed properties, up from $6.2bn in Q109. The foreclosure rate in its single-family portfolio reached 1.36%, up from 0.55% last year.

    For the quarter, Fannie reported an $11.5bn loss and requested $8.4bn in aid from the Treasury Department.

    The foreclosure volume reached over 109,000 from 62,000 in 2009. At the beginning of the period that number was just over 86,000.

    The region with the most was the Southeast with 17,700, followed by the Midwest with 15,000 and the Southwest with 12,800. The West was fourth with 12,600 and well behind the others, the Northeast had 3,500 foreclosed properties in the Fannie Mae portfolio.

  3. safe as houses says:

    The wheels on the bus go over the new guys, over the new guys, over the new guys, the wheels on the bus go over the new guys, that’s the pubic union way.

  4. Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:

    A day?!?! One day of an up market is all they get for 1T Euros?

  5. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Emotion Drives Many Defaults

    People often fall in love with their homes based on some charming but impractical feature or other. Now, increasing numbers of homeowners are abandoning their nests for similarly emotional—and sometimes irrational—reasons.

    It turns out that many of the Americans defaulting on their mortgages are doing so out of anger, fear or despair rather than making a purely sensible decision about their best financial interests, a new study found.

    Though small—covering just 350 people—the study spotted a notable trend. Some of these people have stopped paying because they are anxious about their financial situation; others are furious that banks or the government won’t help ease their load while other people are getting assistance. Hopelessness is a factor for others.

    Strategic defaults are becoming more common, various studies show—a Morgan Stanley report pegged them at 12% of all home-mortgage defaults in February, up from “insignificant levels” three years ago. Lenders fear borrowers who “walk away” will greatly increase the industry’s foreclosure-related losses, which already total in the hundreds of billions of dollars.

    But Mr. White also sees a “contagion effect,” in which people become more likely to default strategically if they know others who have done so.

  6. Final Doom says:

    A borrower is an idiot not to strategically default. Since the introduction of complete moral hazard, it is the prudent and financially-savvy choice.

    The asset declines; the debt remains. Barring any shred of contract law to oblige borrowers to continue paying, what other option is there?

    Short sell your POS and be back in the credit game in 24-36 months. It’s a no-brainer.

  7. Final Doom says:

    MS walks away from skyscrapers and tosses the keys to the lenders. Anybody see them suffering?

  8. Final Doom says:

    Is John Mack living like a bum under some overpass? Anybody call him out for being a deadbeat?

    Didn’t think so.

  9. Final Doom says:

    You guys would be amazed how many short sale prospects begin their meetings with me by asking how to hide liquid assets (that could be used to pay off their mortgages).

    No, I don’t offer to help people do that. When I inform prospects of this, they are incredulous. They also become whiny and then tell me all the purposes to which the money they intend to hide will be put, as though it’s some sort of justification.

  10. Final Doom says:

    Most often, the prospects who want to hide assets are Boomers.

  11. Nomad says:

    When you default on a small loan you have a problem. When you default on a large loan the bank has a problem.

    You are right Doom, it does make good economic sense to walk away. Society has no shame or sense of responsibility any more.

    Problem is, I am the one as you probably are too who is still paying taxes into this house of cards to shore up all the individuals and institutions that created this mess.

    Set aside the money, when a society starts down this path, it will go beyond housing and economic obligations and we as a country will morph into something very different and far less comfortable than the nation we once were.

    Given my taxes which I am coming to view as philanthropic donations, my charitable giving outside of taxes is going to $0.

  12. Final Doom says:

    Hey, Nomad, here’s how the real pros play the game (BTW, my charitable giving has gone from 10-12K/year to 0 as well; charity is a sucker play):

    “Thought experiment: You are the head FX trader at French megabank Croc Monsieur & Cie. (HFT: CMC) For the past 5 years, your bonus has been getting paid primarily in company stock. In the last two weeks you have seen the stock of your firm plunge as the markets have finally realized that those idiots in the Fixed Income desk have loaded up to the gills with PIIGS debt which is now worth 60 cents on the dollar at best. And to top things off, the euro has plunged to multi year lows killing any chance of buying that New York Pied A Terre which seemed so cheap when the EURUSD was 1.50 a few months ago. So what do you do? Well, you short the living daylights out of the EUR, knowing full well that the EU, the IMF and the ECB will not let Europe crash. You sell, you sell on margin and then you sell some more, trying to get EURUSD all they way down to 1.20, to 1.10, even to parity if possible, to make it all that more believable that the end of Europe is coming. And, lo and behold, on May 9 your plan succeeds: Europe agrees to bail your bonus out, by flushing $1 trillion under the pretext the money will be used to stabilize the periphery and the euro. Immediately the stock of CMC, and thus the value of your accrued bonus (several million worth), surges by a record 20% in one day. So you think: “How can I get an even greater bonus appreciation? Why – I will short the euro again. At this point I know that between myself and the other FX desks at all the other French and German banks we can easily take the euro down to 1.20 if not much lower. After all we are only trading against the very central banks that are keeping us alive. And when that happens Europe will have to print another trillion, then ten trillion, then one hundred trillion, all the while the stock portion of my accrued bonus surges. Brilliant.” Brilliant indeed – Zero Hedge has received confirmation that several of the largest French banks are now actively shorting the euro to take advantage of globalized moral hazard, which with every ensuing bailout does nothing but make the bonuses of French FX traders surge. In other words, the very banks that Europe is bailing out are betting more and more aggressively with each passing day against Europe’s own survival! Even George Soros has shed a tear of pride in how beautifully his initial plan to take on the BOE has mutated for the Bailout Generation.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/european-banks-now-feverishly-betting-against-euro-bailout-fails-gold-surges

  13. freedy says:

    walk away, just make sure you can bend the bank over. the more you owe the better it is.

  14. Nomad says:

    #12 – Rinse & Repeat I take it?

  15. Essex says:

    Election day today should be interesting.

  16. Essex says:

    A lot of folks are looking to support the status quo. My fear is that any change will just be more of the same, just shuffled a bit and coated in a different coat of shit.

  17. Shore Guy says:

    Will the cap pass?

    Like a kidney stone. It will pass with all the pain of a kidney stone.

  18. Final Doom says:

    Bust a cap. The only cap that can fix corrupt politicians.

  19. House Whine says:

    16- I am getting a LOT of blank looks from my cohorts who did not vote for Christie when I try to explain that this state is broke and we can’t go on like it’s party time. They simply don’t want to hear about it. They haven’t done their research and they have no idea how bloated our gov’t has become. When I give them “examples” they politely listen but I am not changing anybody’s mind.

  20. Al Gore says:

    Nomad, that’s why when the next 9/11 happens it will be every man for himself. Paying taxes especially federal is a laughable waste.

    Babylon will burn

  21. Final Doom says:

    whine (19)-

    That’s because they don’t want to admit that they are leeches and that we support their sorry asses.

    The first enemy we’ll have to liquidate in the next big blowup won’t be the ones from outside our borders. It will be these nation-destroying parasites.

  22. NJGator says:

    Gawker asks the “really important” questions about Elena Kagan. Replace the * in the link below with an e.

    http://gawker.com/5535425/is-supreme-court-nominee-elena-kagan-really-a-l*sbian?skyline=true&s=i

  23. tbiggs says:

    #19 whine –

    A good friend who lives in Montclair rushed home to vote against Christie in that election. When he complained about Christie cutting school aid and other things, I said yeah but the state is freakin’ bankrupt, don’t you think it’s about time something was done? And I mentioned another person we know who collects a $75K salary from the NJ government basically for turning oxygen into carbon dioxide. And I reminded him of how bloated and wasteful and institutionalized the schools have become.

    So he kind of agreed with me… but then went off on how Christie was also “funneling money to the rich”. I don’t even know what he was speaking about, other than the usual graft at state level. I asked for a cite but haven’t heard back yet. I guess it was union propaganda…

  24. homeboken says:

    So both Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan trade desks made money every single day in the last quarter. 63 straight trading days, not one loss.

    Goldman had 35 of those days where profit was in excess of $100million.

    This should be considered a statistically impossible event. Who is the counter-party to all these trades? Somone has to be on the other (read losing) side of these trades.

  25. Final Doom says:

    biggs (23)-

    No reasoning with the parasites. Bust a cap.

  26. veto that - lawrence yun 'the panda', 'next fall' says:

    Stock Futures off.

    This will be another fun day on the board.

  27. JJ says:

    I did it too, market went one way in that time frame. Trend is your friend.

    homeboken says:
    May 11, 2010 at 9:12 am
    So both Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan trade desks made money every single day in the last quarter. 63 straight trading days, not one loss.

    Goldman had 35 of those days where profit was in excess of $100million.

    This should be considered a statistically impossible event. Who is the counter-party to all these trades? Somone has to be on the other (read losing) side of these trades.

  28. All "H-Train" Hype says:
  29. Final Doom says:

    Gold is not a currency. Yeah, right.

    [sarcasm off]

  30. veto that - lawrence yun 'the panda', 'next fall' says:

    More Financial Crises Coming Thanks to Global “Wall of Liquidity,” Roubini Says

    In the new book, “Crisis Economics: A Crash Course in the Future of Finance,” co-author Nouriel Roubini makes the case for why “black swans may become white swans.” In other words, “crises once thought to occur only once or twice a century may hammer the global economy far more often.”

    Why?

    “In practice we’ve seen that things that should have happened once every 100 years are occurring much more frequently and they’re much more virulent,” Roubini tells Aaron and Henry in the accompanying segment. “The fiscal costs of these financial crises are becoming larger, larger and larger.”

    So where’s the next bubble?

    Roubini is concerned the “wall of liquidity” from central bankers around the globe is laying the foundation for the next crisis, citing evidence of potential bubbles in various asset classes. “When you can borrow everywhere in the world at zero rate, and you can take leverage, the risk of creating the next asset bubble — dollar-funded carry trades, for example — that significant risk is rising,” he says.

  31. Painhrtz says:

    Clot every time I read zero hedge i develop a nervous twitch and order a 100 more rounds

  32. veto that - lawrence yun 'the panda', 'next fall' says:

    “Gold is not a currency.”

    Doom, ‘precious’ is a currency when it goes up.

    But on the days it goes down, its considered a raw material, like petrified coal.

    Historically, its best use is for painting christmas ornaments.

  33. veto that - lawrence yun 'the panda', 'next fall' says:

    Precious.

    It’s second best use is in the dental industry, to make ‘grills’. But that took a big hit when the rap music bubble started to deflate.

  34. RentinginNJ says:

    I am getting a LOT of blank looks from my cohorts who did not vote for Christie when I try to explain that this state is broke and we can’t go on like it’s party time.

    I agree. When I talk to my public employee friends, I get a lot of “it’s not fair”. I try to explain that “fair” really has nothing to do with it. At the end of the day, you simply can’t spend more than you take in…to which they tell me “it’s not fair, we didn’t cause this mess”. To which I respond “Yes, I agree it’s not fair, but it is what it is.” I then ask, “So what’s your solution then”. To which they respond, “It’s not fair to take it out in us”.

  35. still_looking says:

    Shore Guy, 17

    You say that like you’ve been there :)

    …I treat dozens of people with them…it’s awful.

    sl

  36. make money says:

    This should be considered a statistically impossible event. Who is the counter-party to all these trades? Somone has to be on the other (read losing) side of these trades.

    PPT.

  37. still_looking says:

    Painhz, 31

    You and the other still_looking… are doing the same thing.

    After listening to new about euro-bailout, I am starting to ‘get it.’

    Paper currency is doomed. They will be printing and ‘borrowing’ to prop the euro.

    sl

  38. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    There was a good discussion on the Weekend Thread about owning Physical Gold.

    Some poster mentioned Coast to Coast Coins as a good source. A quick google search turned up numerous complaints about this company.

    There are firms out there with a long history of superior customer service. Blanchard is one of them, American Precious Metal Exchange is another. Goldline has a good reputation, too.

    Perform your due diligence.

    Another poster had a good Do’s & Dont’s list :
    1. Take Delivery.
    2. Store at Home, not in Safe Deposit.
    3. American Gold Eagles are good, recognizable.
    4. $50 over spot is a fair price.
    5. Don’t pay extra for numismatic coins.

    Everybody should have some gold coins in a safe place, in your possession. I call this “The Get Out of Town in a Hurry” stash. If the feces hits the fan, you want to be able to grab your Go Bag, your travelling cash, and perhaps your firearm and drive to your family’s pre-determined rendevous point.

    Just try to imagine what would happen if the next Times Square incident involves some kind of toxin.

  39. veto that - lawrence yun 'the panda', 'next fall' says:

    It sounds dreadful. After drifting down consistently since last fall, the unemployment rate has suddenly shot up again, from 9.7 percent in March to 9.9 percent in April. But don’t despair: A rising unemployment rate is actually one of the best signs yet that the economy is bouncing back.

    The unemployment rate rose for the right reason. Instead of shedding jobs, employers added 290,000 jobs in April, the strongest showing since 2007. The reason the unemployment rate went up is that a lot more people are suddenly looking for work. The government said that the labor force swelled by 805,000 people in April. That’s more than three times the number of new jobs, so the proportion of people looking for a job but unable to find one went up.

  40. Happy Daze says:

    33 veto that

    “grills”
    That confused me for a long time.
    I did not see why there was such an affinity in rap culture for cooking over propane.

  41. sas says:

    “Gold is not a currency.”

    agreed.

    but, guns & drugs are a universal currency.

    SAS

  42. veto that - lawrence yun 'the panda', 'next fall' says:

    SAS, thats true.
    Also, a stiff kick to the bread basket is as dependable a currency as any.

  43. Happy Daze says:

    42 sas

    Don’t forget sex, the original recipe.

  44. Final Doom says:

    rent (34)-

    Typical lickspittle collectivists. The “it’s not fair” mantra is a tell that their brainwashing was complete by the time they graduated HS.

    This stuff can only be fixed with guns.

  45. Outofstater says:

    #38 I’ve been wondering about the NY Fed. Supposedly, they have a large cache of gold in the basement? Given that people seem to expect some sort of dirty bomb to be used in NY, wouldn’t it make sense to move it elsewhere? Like Iowa or someplace? Well, I hope they’ve moved it, anyway.

  46. Final Doom says:

    “It’s not fair.”

    Typical soci@list gambit: the minute circumstances call for action (or, God forbid, sacrifice), claim victimhood.

    This play works because we’ve all been conditioned to back off or make special accommodation when victimhood is invoked.

    I say it’s time to demonstrate what real victimhood is. Fill some body bags, and these zombies will wake up real quick.

  47. sas says:

    “Don’t forget sex, the original recipe.”

    yes, forgot about that one.

    free markets still exist.

    SAS

  48. Final Doom says:

    stater (46)-

    Somebody told me they put all that shiny on a slow boat to China a few years ago.

    Then again, when was the last time any gubmint-held gold in the US inventoried and reported?

  49. make money says:

    Given that people seem to expect some sort of dirty bomb to be used in NY, wouldn’t it make sense to move it elsewhere? Like Iowa or someplace? Well, I hope they’ve moved it, anyway.

    That’s been moved long time ago. No worries as we don’t own it anymore.

  50. jamil says:

    22 NjGator:

    We need someone brave and intelligent, say, John Kerry to publicly out Kagan..”I was in VIETNAM and I applaud Kagan WHO IS A LE$BIAN” and repeat it couple of times on TV so every rube gets it.

  51. Final Doom says:

    Put some of these 280 lb. DMV lard-ass bags of blood on raod crews. Show ’em what a real day of work is about.

    Oh…and no pensions, no insurance, no bennies and no union. Thirty minutes for lunch (perhaps it would be a good time for the to take up Slim-Fast), and bullwhippings for slow, shoddy work.

  52. jamil says:

    23 tbiggs: “but then went off on how Christie was also “funneling money to the rich”. I don’t even know what he was speaking about, ”

    Simple. In the minds of community organizers, the money and income of private sector employee belongs to the State (“it is fair”) and any money that is left to that employee is funneling money to the rich.

  53. Painhrtz says:

    Still “getting it” makes for really sleepless nights.

    Personally when the riots start, the looters can go to all the electronics and clothing stores they want, I’m hitting up my ex employer who made penicilin and cephaloxin. you think gold has a value, antibiotics will be worth double.

  54. Final Doom says:

    The only remaining economies on the planet that are remotely productive feature:

    1. Some form of slavery, or slave labor in key industries.

    2. Indenture for those in excessive debt.

    Just saying.

  55. Final Doom says:

    jamil (53)-

    Far and away your best post ever.

  56. jamil says:

    Almost like NJ, but without the great lifestyle..

    FT:
    “Europe has bought itself time with its €750bn bail-out for the euro. But the long-term problem remains.

    Most of the European Union is living beyond its means. Government deficits are out of control and public-sector debt is rising. If European governments do not use their new breathing space to control spending, financial markets will get dangerously restless again. Unfortunately, European voters and politicians are simply unprepared for the age of austerity that lies ahead.

    I used to think Europe had got it right. Let the US be a military superpower; let China be an economic superpower – Europe would be the lifestyle superpower. The days when European empires dominated the globe had gone. But that was just fine. Europe could still be the place with the most beautiful cities, the best food and wine, the richest cultural history, the longest holidays, the best football teams. Life for most ordinary Europeans has never been more comfortable.

    It was a great strategy. But there was one big flaw in it. Europe cannot afford its comfortable retirement. “

  57. JJ says:

    On the corner of 42 by Bryant Park in the old Republic Bank Building, now HSBC in basement is huge gold vault. First of all the gold bars are gigantic. When I was down there was told I could take as many as I could lift, you can’t lift any. Unlike movies they make them too heavy to carry. Secondly. vault is deep in basement in the Bedrock of NYC, immpossible to tunnel in. Only way in is a Secured Freight Elevator, only way to move gold is Fork lift. On purpose only way to get gold in and out is through lobby of the busy office building right out front door and into truck in a busy intersection of the corner of 42nd and Bryant park. There is heat, motion and vibration detectors. Oh yea there are guards watching rooms remotely. Even better guards watching room don’t know they are secretly being watch via hidden cameras by other guards in other states. Oh yea, did I forget to mention guards are armed and ex-FBI and Ex NYC police and bullet proof man traps and abilty to inject posinous haylon gass or remove oxygen from vault to choke you to death even better when I reviewed their security plans once you breached the first two access points there instructions were STKHSO. I said what does that mean, after you disabled or circuvented two complex systems and presumably killed the guard upstairs and you enter the vault area it is presumed you are a terroist or a highly sophisticated. STKHSO means Shoot To Kill Head Shot Only. Now if gunmen win battle remember FBI and NYC police are already on way via silent alarms and remote guards secretely watching are in action. There are several escape routes and FBI and police are instructed to go to those pre-planned spots on each escape route where they can do the tire strips and shoot the robbers somewhat safely. Now if you win that battle you got to cross a bridge or a tunnel in a stole armored car. Near impossible to steal gold in NYC, you are better off find the secret location of gold stored in less populated states. NYC stealing several tons worth of gold is a recipie for a bullet in your head.

    Outofstater says:
    May 11, 2010 at 9:48 am
    #38 I’ve been wondering about the NY Fed. Supposedly, they have a large cache of gold in the basement? Given that people seem to expect some sort of dirty bomb to be used in NY, wouldn’t it make sense to move it elsewhere? Like Iowa or someplace? Well, I hope they’ve moved it, anyway.

  58. bullrun says:

    When there is a crisis,governments are the only one that can spend to turn the economy.If government control spending when everybody is not spending,where do you think the economy will go?

  59. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [9,10] Doom

    Sounds like my kind of clients.

    You are right to avoid this topic with them because the bankruptcy reform act of a few years ago makes it illegal to counsel a person on how to do this in contemplation of bankruptcy. In your case, it is an occupational risk for no benefit. Not so with an attorney who is compensated for such advice.

    By definition, those who are strategically defaulting will have assets. Perhaps they are concerned about other creditors or the government. Perhaps they want to avail themselves of other benefits. Perhaps they are looking at a future bankruptcy (in which case, I would counsel them on fraudulent transfer presumptions).

    Provided it is done legally, I have no qualms about helping people “hide” assets. Whatever the reason, so long as the law is observed, I am helping them to better their financial position, just as they would as a strategic defaulter.

  60. Bubble Disciple says:

    while we’re at it, he should also propose a 2.5% cap on housing price increases … but even that would not be enough

  61. Final Doom says:

    run (59)-

    Back to some sort of reflection of reality?

    “If government control spending when everybody is not spending,where do you think the economy will go?”

  62. Outofstater says:

    #58 JJ Thanks for the info – cool stuff.
    #54 Yep. The things to have if the poop hits the prop will be food, ammo, painkillers, antibiotics, chocolate and liquor. Shiny will retain its value but might be tricky to barter in the midst of chaos.

  63. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    A reflection on Veto and Bob’s shiny debate.

    My holdings in GLD and SLV (past and present), have largely paid for my other holdings in metals, namely steel alloys, lead, and brass.

  64. yo'me says:

    Back to some sort of reflection of reality?

    You can’t handle the truth!

  65. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [22] gator,

    Not only have I believed that to be true, I have a pretty good idea who her love interest is (or was).

    I can only disclose a first name: Sarah.

  66. make money says:

    Currency or not, wake me up when Dow and Shiny are aproaching each other.

  67. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Here is one of the better articles I have found that covers the bio of our next SCOTUS Justyce.

    http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/elena-kagans-long-journey-to-supreme-court-hopeful/19470792

    I love how the administration apparently got CBS to retract a blog or story about her orientation. If she comes out, or is forced out, they are gonna get hammered for that bit of muscle-flexing.

  68. Final Doom says:

    make (64)-

    Easy. Too many unqualified students are admitted into college. Natch, the dropout rates soar.

  69. Final Doom says:

    Edumacation bubble is already exploding. Watch a lot of peripheral institutions close their doors over the next few years.

  70. Outofstater says:

    Re: Shiny. Why coins instead of 1 oz bars? Easier to sell later?

  71. Final Doom says:

    A friend of mine teaches at Muhlenberg (very highly-respected small college). Has been complaining for years that 75% of her students cannot write a high-school level paper. For the past 2-3 years, also informs that a high number of parents regularly intervene by contacting her directly on both assignments and grade issues.

  72. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [72] doom

    “Watch a lot of peripheral institutions close their doors over the next few years.”

    Agreed. Been saying this for years. In fact, I fail to understand why many haven’t closed already.

  73. Final Doom says:

    I used to think vocational education was a long-term solution. However, while I was on the foundation at a well-known local vocational HS, I realized the admins and teachers don’t give a damn about the kids. They do care intensely, though, about their salaries, bennies and ways to avoid hard work.

  74. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [74] doom

    “Has been complaining for years that 75% of her students cannot write a high-school level paper.”

    I felt this explains why so few closures. Colleges in trouble have lowered the bar. Doonesbury mocked this trend a few years ago.

  75. Final Doom says:

    Many volunteers in my area want to donate time and resources to vocational ed. However, the teachers turn down the offers and mostly give the prospective donors the cold shoulder.

    Accepting offers of outside help means they have to work more and work harder.

  76. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [70] errata

    Eeeep. Noticed that the article I linked mentioned Sarah Walzer as a friend of Kagan.

    Not the Sarah I was thinking of. The one in the story is married.

  77. Final Doom says:

    I guess Playboy doing a “Girls of the Supreme Court” feature is out of the question.

  78. jcer says:

    Doom, I think I just threw-up a little in my mouth. That Kagan women is gross looking when fully clothed, let alone naked. Perhaps a judicial robe is the only appropriate clothing for her? it does cover a lot.

  79. meter says:

    I had an education argument with my wife yesterday – part of an ongoing debate. I would estimate that 75% of jobs in the US require no college education – assuming a slightly above average intelligence and ambition. (Maybe those assumptions scuttle my premise, but then again those people have no business being in college either).

    We should be encouraging apprenticeships and work-study programs.

  80. BlueNDGold says:

    Re: 82.
    So what jobs do you think that requires a college education.

  81. young buck says:

    Sent out to all members…

    May 9, 2010

    TO: All NJEA Members
    FROM: Barbara Keshishian, NJEA President
    Vincent Giordano, NJEA Executive Director
    RE: Tomorrow’s Legislative Assault from Gov. Christie
    Our war with the Christie Administration is now full-blown.

    Every NJEA member should now be fully outraged at this governor and his agenda, because it is now an official attack on the very future of public education, and on the careers and livelihoods of each and every one of us.

    Despite almost daily attacks on NJEA, its members, our students, and public education in general over the past four months, we are now faced with an all-out assault which we must mobilize to defeat.

    As the Newark Star-Ledger reported today, Christie will propose 33 bills that seek to crush public employees on every level.

    While the focal point of this attack may be its proposed 2.5% cap on annual increases in salaries and benefits, it also includes a 2.5% cap on annual increases in municipal, school, and county property tax levies, which would have a disastrous impact on the ability of districts to maintain services and programs.

    Christie is also going after the civil service system, by allowing towns to opt out of civil service protections such as the use of seniority when determining layoffs. This is on top of last Friday’s legislative proposal announcement by Commissioner Schundler, which seeks to change our tenure system and to basically abolish the seniority system as we know it.

    Please know that NJEA is on top of this attack:
    We have had work groups analyzing and preparing research, talking points, and lobbying information on all of the key issues in this package, and that information is now in hand;
    We will be holding emergency meetings first thing this week to analyze the specific legislation as soon as it is made public (sometime Monday);
    We will move quickly to put an organizing/political action plan into effect; and
    We will be providing all staff, leaders, local presidents, and members with constant updates as events unfold, to ensure the broadest possible awareness of and involvement in this ultimate showdown.
    We must be prepared to move swiftly and decisively in the days ahead. We need everyone’s singular focus on this crisis, if we are to turn back and defeat this unprecedented attack on public education, NJEA, and its members.

    Stay tuned, and stay in touch with your local president for the latest updates.

  82. JJ says:

    I rarely studied grades K-12 and college. Rarely studied first year of grad school and then turned it on last two semesters of grad school.

    Actually studying to get high grades that few months really ate into my job, partying, dating, hamptons, ski houses, going to gym etc. Glad I did not wast HS and College on that nonsense.

    meter says:
    May 11, 2010 at 11:13 am
    I had an education argument with my wife yesterday – part of an ongoing debate. I would estimate that 75% of jobs in the US require no college education – assuming a slightly above average intelligence and ambition. (Maybe those assumptions scuttle my premise, but then again those people have no business being in college either).

    We should be encouraging apprenticeships and work-study programs.

  83. jcer says:

    BlueNDGold, jobs requiring(or are greatly assisted by) advanced study:
    Doctor
    Lawyer
    Engineer
    Scientist
    Artist
    Musician
    Writer
    Mathematician
    Professor
    Teacher
    Nurse

    Most people work in business or corporate america which generally only requires common sense and some street smarts. I am sure I am missing some.

  84. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [84] buck,

    The only way for NJ voters to protect themselves is to NOT LET UP.

    I can speak from experience—special interests count on voters to express anger in November, and then go away.

    The ONLY way for Christie to succeed is for the legislature to hear that the people still have his back.

    Call, write, or email your elected reps (especially if you live in Dem strongholds) and tell them that you support the governor. If you are not a republican, let them know that—it is especially valuable.

    They will want you to disclose who you are. Tell them that you don’t feel like ending up on some union goon squad list. Or, you can “relent” and give them the name and address of a democratic leaning neighbor.

    (note–I don’t want to dissuade you from calling or writing because they won’t put you on a list for the unions, but if enough people vent that fear, they will be further warned against it.)

  85. Painhrtz says:

    84 I really despise that organization. Really your at war with the Christie administration. Your equating a budget struggle to war. Morons!

    So what your really against is fiscal responsibility? Lower taxes, smaller administrative staff which will allow for more money for gasp, education! They truly are an army of idiots, they are not just killing the golden goose with their childish antics, they are spreading the fois gras on salted Earth.

  86. JJ says:

    Average Coporate person who is a parent can do everything on this list.

    jcer says:
    May 11, 2010 at 11:23 am
    BlueNDGold, jobs requiring(or are greatly assisted by) advanced study:
    Doctor
    Lawyer
    Engineer
    Scientist
    Artist
    Musician
    Writer
    Mathematician
    Professor
    Teacher
    Nurse

    Most people work in business or corporate america which generally only requires common sense and some street smarts. I am sure I am missing some.

  87. sas3 says:

    JJ: Hockey moms (or dads in this case) for plugging the leak in the oil pipe.

  88. Outofstater says:

    #84 “fully outraged?” Instead of sort of outraged or partially outraged? Does the word “outraged” require a modifier? I thought it sorta said it all, all by itself.

  89. Outofstater says:

    #84 Give it up, Babs. There is no money.

  90. sas3 says:

    JJ, on a serious note, there are many jobs that require immense training and education. Common sense and raw intelligence isn’t sufficient for those jobs. If we don’t respect the problem at hand, the solution won’t be respectable.

  91. NJGator says:

    School-chief pay rises as districts struggle

    The average school superintendent’s salary in North Jersey is larger than the governor’s — and more than 90 percent of schools chiefs make more money than the state’s education commissioner.

    Governor Christie receives $175,000 while the average annual salary for superintendents in Bergen and Passaic counties topped $180,000 in the 2008-09 school year.

    And the overwhelming majority of schools chiefs in the two counties make more than Education Commissioner Bret Schundler — as do almost half the assistant superintendents and business administrators. One in four principals in the region also makes more than Schundler.

    Most of the districts operate no more than four schools. Schundler, who sets state policy and oversees more than 600 school districts, is paid $141,000.

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/93254809_School-chief_pay_rises_as_districts_struggle.html

  92. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [88] pain

    They’re calling for war?

    I say give them one. A real one.

  93. Final Doom says:

    sastry (90)-

    C’mon. Five playgroup moms could probably come up with something better than that giant dome that immediately jammed up with frozen methane.

    I bet 25 Navy SEALS could figure out a way to stop the leak.

    Even jamming the hole with 750 bn euros is worth a try.

  94. NJGator says:

    N.J. education commissioner Schundler pitches plan to tie student performance to teacher pay and tenure

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/051010_NJ_education_commissioenr_Schundler_pitches_plan_to_tie_student_performance_to_teacher_pay_and_tenure.html

  95. meter says:

    This was the list proposed:

    Doctor
    Lawyer
    Engineer
    Scientist
    Artist
    Musician
    Writer
    Mathematician
    Professor
    Teacher
    Nurse

    I would cross off artist and musician for sure (coming from a musical background, you don’t need college for that. A conservatory or private mentor, yes). Same with writer. The best writers in history weren’t “trained.”

    I feel the same way about teacher & professor; a college education is no guarantee for good teaching skills. Professorships for the below, I would agree with. Anything else, I would prefer to study under someone with real world experience and study a subject that isn’t merely a self-fulfilling prophecy (e.g. sociology, which seems to exist almost solely to generate professors to teach soc. courses).

    These I would agree with:

    Doctor
    Lawyer
    Engineer
    Scientist
    Mathematician

    assuming that “scientist” covers the hard sciences (physics, chemistry, biology).

  96. safe as houses says:

    #90 Sastry,

    They should just ask JJ how to do it. He’s an expert at filling holes that are spewing hazardous substances.

  97. jamil says:

    Comrade:
    I said it before, but Lautenberg decision (ie NJ politbyroo/court allowed the State to break the law because of vague “public interest” or “unexpected scenario” reasoning) and it could be used here, too.

    Since “public interest” requires cutting unsustainable parasite benefits and this is “unexpected” and “unprecedent”, Christie should simply go forward and do all the required changes.

    The Ultra-Left and State Media will hate him anyway.

  98. safe as houses says:

    Attention Greedy grubbers, AKA sellers with fantasy prices.

    If you pos could not sell in 2008 and 2009, do you really think it is going to move at 10% less than last year’s fantasy price? Perhaps if you had listed it in 2008 for what you have listed now you could have found a new bag holder, I mean buyer. But hey, what’s 2 years of your life worth to you.

  99. chicagofinance says:

    Glad I did not wast HS and College on that nonsense.

    Clearly dude…

  100. sas3 says:

    meter, “professors” can mean many things — from teaching “intro to computing 101” to “string theory 684”. One of my roommates was doing his PhD in CS [fairly sharp guy], and to this day, I remember him asking, “What programming language should I use to store a few thousand numbers and do some series calculations? Can C do that? Where do I learn about C?”. I think he may be a CS faculty member somewhere. I am sure Sarah Palin types will scoff at a ‘so-called’ “CS professor that does not know simple programming”.

  101. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [90] sas3

    Have you identified any group that is NOT in favor of plugging the oil leak?

  102. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [103] sas3

    I don’t know simple programming so no scoffing from this quarter.

    I recently learned that a friend from law school has been an adjunct faculty member at our alma mater for 7 years now. He informs me that he is NOT allowed to call himself “professor.”

  103. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [99] safe

    “He’s an expert at filling holes that are spewing hazardous substances.”

    Wow. Had no idea that onions were so dangerous.

  104. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Doom,

    You’ve got mail.

  105. meter says:

    @103, Sas3 –

    That’s why I said professors for the disciplines indicated, meaning those who teach physics, chemistry, medicine, advanced mathematics, etc.

    You don’t need a professor to teach ‘intro to computing 101.’ Get a book!

  106. Rusty Harpoon says:

    107. I smell a three way.

  107. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Clegg and Cameron to form a government. Brown out.

    Damn, I did not think that could happen this soon. So will the leaders in UK be called TINOs?

  108. Essex says:

    I noticed you tools are pretty much experts on everything. Except working.

  109. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [111] essex

    Welcome to the party.

  110. Al "Fat Thumbery" Gore says:

    28.

    My silver is going to make mince meat of my mortgage. Assuming I dont HELOC the sh#t out of it then default.

  111. make money says:

    Even jamming the hole with 750 bn euros is worth a try.

    Spilled coke all over myself. Quote of the day goes to Doom.

  112. homeboken says:

    Nom (104) – OPEC

  113. Al "Fat Thumbery" Gore says:

    49.

    Doom,

    I believe it was 1954.

  114. Al "Fat Thumbery" Gore says:

    63.

    Those ARK 3 survival kits are hot commodities.

    http://www.bestglide.com/Ark_III_Info.html

    I have one in each of my cars along with my potassium iodide, hand crank radio/flashlight. I also keep a stash at home.

  115. make money says:

    Edumacation bubble is already exploding. Watch a lot of peripheral institutions close their doors over the next few years.

    I used to think the same thing but with increase on financial aid programs, loans, and lack of new schools entering the market due to barriers of entry students have to go somewhere.

    You look at the demographics and its clear that kids have to go somewhere and who cares what you get out of it when financial aid and financiang is availabe via gubmint.

    One is only required to pay up to 10% of their salary to student loans and they’re tax deductible so its a no brainer.

    If you fail college then you can always say that at least you tried. Students who stay for a year or two and drop out keep some of these colleges in business.

    The completion rate for most community colleges in NJ is between 10-20%.

    hardly worth the taxpayers dime.

  116. NJGator says:

    Doom – Are you commenting on Gawker these days?

    “Maybe this is just my New Jersey roots showing, but if I was behind on a mortgage I’d just pay someone to drop a match.”

    http://gawker.com/5536201/panic-is-perfectly-rational

  117. Essex says:

    I am not here!

  118. JJ says:

    I would say Doctor is about it.

    Abe Lincoln didn’t need no school to be a Lawyer, neither did the great Engineers, Scientists and Matematicians. But judging from the show Tudors I watch, Doctors need a lot of schooling otherwise they are just butchers.

  119. make money says:

    http://www.american-school-search.com/review/passaic-county-community-college

    Passaic graduation rate is 6%. yet we poor million every year in this black hole.

    Since 94% of these kids don’t graduate, when is it politically feasible to say some people are just not meant to go to school?

  120. Al "Fat Thumbery" Gore says:

    With the advent of the internet, higher education is simply too inefficient. I agree completely with meter. A partially paid full time apprenticeship accompanied with home reading and organized testing.

  121. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [214] [prior thread] minimus

    Caught your post just now. Thought I would respond to what comes closest to cogent thought.

    “Nom
    I see your still throwing Jefferson under the bus. I’ll keep an eye out for a “Jefferson was a G0D-Dammed L1beral!” T-shirt for you.”

    Won’t happen, and you will have to explain this statement, which is borderline ad hominen and little else. Just saying Jefferson doesn’t make the argument. If you are so much smarter, enlighten me.

    “I caught sight of “With respect to W” while surfing” and thought what a great example of an Oxymoron.”

    Or, a way to direct the reader to the subject, perhaps? Sorry about that English course you must have done so poorly in.

    “In light of today’s SCOTUS news, I’ll just say Harriet Miers and leave it at that.”

    Touche’. Never said idiotic SCOTUS picks were the province of the left. And I would not describe Kagan as idiotic. Ideological perhaps, but not idiotic.

    “As for W and putting God in policy, he for the most part didn’t need to do anything; he had the likes of Kentucky displaying the 10 commandments to do the heavy lifting for him. But off the top of my head I’ll give you stem cell research, family planning for A1DS prevention in Africa and of course this little gem.

    “What we are going to do in the second term is to make sure that the grant money is available for faith communities to bid on, to make sure these faith-based offices are staffed and open. But the key thing is, is that we do have the capacity to allow faith programs to access enormous sums of social service money, which I think is important.”
    –George W. Bush, January 11, 2005”

    So which is it? He didn’t need to endorse, or he did endorse? You are suggesting both (as well as collusion with Kentucky. Naturally, you have some facts to back that up, right?).

    Further, you make the inferential leap between the policies listed and government endorsement of christianity. Of the three, I see only one that implicates a christian position (if you can tie in the others with reference to official christian dogma, you are more informed than I—I eagerly await that post).

  122. Painhrtz says:

    Al, I would agree, I have bredth of a full liberal arts education and can communicate on a multitude of subjects. I would have been just as happy to spend five years in biology labs and walked out with a Masters. Any professional is only as good as their application of gained and usable knowledge. College doesn’t provide nearly enough of it, nor does it produce many critical thinkers any more. Sad what the halls of academia have become.

  123. make money says:

    http://www.ucc.edu/AboutUCC/AdministrativeDepartments/APR/CommonDataSet/GraduationRateSurvey.htm

    Check out Union County College…not one student who entered in 9/2005 got their associates in 2 or 3 years.

    12% got it in 4 years.

  124. grim says:

    Even jamming the hole with 750 bn euros is worth a try.

    Junk Shot indeed.

  125. Painhrtz says:

    make I went CC and didn’t get my associates, I was 4 credits short when I transfered to a 4 year school. You have to put the transfer rate against that number as a comparison. I would agree though that a good number of kids test the waters at a CC decide it is not for them and look for something else.

  126. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [115] ‘boken

    Good one!

  127. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [126] make,

    UCC is also a magnet for area au pairs, who need to take classes but won’t ever get degrees here.

    My first au pair took two courses there because it was convenient. She is now studying law in Berlin. Though I admit, she may be an outlier.

  128. make money says:

    Com,

    you can see the transfer rate at 126 its still miserable.

  129. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    sas3

    I think we were discussing this. Appears the case may now be moot.

    “LOS ANGELES – Thieves have stolen a cross in the Mojave Desert that was built to honor Americans who died in war, less than two weeks after the U.S. Supreme Court allowed the religious symbol to remain on federal land.

    The 7-foot-high cross was stolen late Sunday or early Monday by thieves who cut the metal bolts that attached the symbol to a rock in the sprawling desert preserve, National Park Service spokeswoman Linda Slater said. . . .

    The cross came under legal fire about a decade ago by a former park service employee on grounds that it violated the constitutional separation of church and state. A lengthy court fight ensued, culminating with a 5-4 ruling by the Supreme Court that said the cross should remain.

    The cross had been covered with plywood since the early 2000s while the courts decided whether it was legal, but vandals tore off the wooden cover over the weekend. Maintenance workers went out to the rock to replace the cover and discovered the cross was missing, Slater said. . . .

    The VFW promised that the memorial will be rebuilt at its remote rock 70 miles south of Las Vegas and 200 miles northeast of Los Angeles. . . . .

    It was not immediately clear whether they would be permitted to erect a new cross or whether a new cross would fall under the Supreme Court ruling.

    “We’re waiting for news from the Department of Justice as to what we should do. The case is still in litigation,” Slater said.

    The cross has provoked a tremendous amount of debate over the years among civil libertarians, veterans and the courts.

    Federal courts ruled that the cross was unconstitutional and rejected a congressional effort to solve the issue by transferring the property into private hands.

    The high court last month sent the property issue back to a lower court again and, in the meantime, refused to order its removal. . . . .

    Peter Eliasberg, managing attorney at the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California, which filed the lawsuit on the ex-worker’s behalf, said his organization objects to the cross but condemns its theft.

    “We believe in the rule of law and we think the proper way to resolve to any controversy about the cross is through the courts,” he said. “We absolutely reject the idea of anybody engaging in theft or vandalism.”

    Eliasberg said he hasn’t thought about what to do if the cross is replaced, but noted that the group had not objected to leaving up the current cross while it was covered. . . . .”

  130. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [131] make

    Oh, I believe you. I suspect UCC is largely a place for kids to “try” college, and it serves two obvious purposes:

    A. Sop to inner city kids who would never get into Rutgers (or even Rowan); and
    B. Typical county patronage job generator.

  131. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [131] make

    In Mass., these were called “community colleges” and largely considered a joke. We used to call them The 13th Grade.

    They were, IMHO, only useful for very talented h.s. kids—my frat brother’s younger brother (who was scary bright) went to one while a sophomore at a local joke of a high school.

  132. jcer says:

    I stand by my original assessment, I never said college or university, I stated advanced study. That could be self learning,in a classroom, or as an apprentice. I think there is value in higher education in the general sense provided the student is really in it to learn. I think the current system is somewhat polluted and values the wrong things but that well rounded schooling is important. Some people are naturally gifted in certain things, and require little schooling other require more but the truth is all people need to learn things from somewhere. Musicians aren’t born just knowing about music, the same goes for artists, and writers. Sure they need talent but they also need to be educated and not necessarily formally.

    JJ I’d like you to drive over a bridge not designed by a trained engineer. In older homes not designed by trained people(Think victorian era) there were often structural issues(in odd places think loads not being supported properly) and more often than not waste because structures were built way stronger than necessary. How about a computer control system for a nuclear power plant not designed by certified, trained, educated engineers? I think you can get my drift. I am a firm believer in people being flexible and able to learn things “on the Job” so to speak but sometimes that is just not the case.

  133. jcer says:

    Lest just face it, it is unpopular to say now, but higher education is really for those who are gifted or wealthy, everyone else is better served to work because they have to and college does little to help them.

  134. sas3 says:

    make… even though internet provides all the required information, there needs to be some direction/guidance for a student [usually in the form of teachers/advisors]. I don’t know who said it, but it goes like, “knowledge is knowing that tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad”. An ancient Hindu saying is “knowledge without a teacher is a waste” (loosely paraphrasing).

    Same thing holds in corporate/business world too — experience is very valuable.

  135. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Another low volume, up market day. ho hum…

  136. Essex says:

    136. What drivel!

  137. Al "Fat Thumbery" Gore says:

    Hyde,

    Amateur video of the spill in the gulf. Aerial photos by a pilot.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=did-S6XbpMM&feature=player_embedded#!

  138. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [137] sas3

    “knowledge is knowing that tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad”.

    Great quote. Can I attribute you?

  139. veto that - lawrence yun 'the panda', 'next fall' says:

    I think some of you are way off on Higher Education’s worth.

    Hate to say it but education bubble didnt even start yet. We are going to move the entire society toward book learning, in a a way nobody has ever seen before. We are on the verge of a huge structural shift. College will be mandatory for everyone. I wont be surprised if govt moves in and makes 90% free for everyone.

    The world bank published a convincing study that directly links higher education to economic growth. Google it if you want. Very interesting stuff.

  140. sas3 says:

    jcer, higher ed with some scholarship is not a bad option. My college was subsidized (everyone in the college paid peanuts, and had access to some of the best facilities in India), and my grad school scholarship helped me financially support my folks back in India a little bit — a couple of hundred US bucks a month was a lot of money in India those days.

    A few years after I graduated college, the tuition fees were up by a factor of 30 or so — from ~ $20/semester to $500/semester, along with room costs ($1 per year to some reasonable amount). The costs I quote are the regular tuition, not for financial need based cases.

    S

  141. jcer says:

    sas3, hence the gifted part, and the strong desire to learn. People with intelligence and the desire to learn should absolutely go to University and for their own reasons it should be worth the cost paid.

  142. sas3 says:

    Nom, no… My original stuff is almost always not worth repeating.

    That quote is probably from Miles Kington [after a quick googling]

    http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/164685.Miles_Kington

  143. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [140] Al

    Few topics make me ill, but that is one of them. I don’t agree with Chairman O on many things, and I think that cap and trade is ill-conceived, but we have to do something.

    I was always an advocate for higher gas taxes (yes, I know, but there really is a conservative principle to it), but now I think that, in the words of my former girlfriend/combat medic, that would be like putting a band-aid on a sucking chest wound.

    We have to do something.

    (OT rant off. Going back to work now).

  144. jcer says:

    We tend to link money spent with education. Efficiency should be the goal.

  145. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [145] sas3

    “My original stuff is almost always not worth repeating.”

    You do realize I am stifling the urge to reply with both hands, don’t you?

    must-get-back-to-work-now-ack!

  146. JJ says:

    when exactly was the last time anyone built a nuclear power plant or bridge in New York City?

    JJ I’d like you to drive over a bridge not designed by a trained engineer. In older homes not designed by trained people(Think victorian era) there were often structural issues(in odd places think loads not being supported properly) and more often than not waste because structures were built way stronger than necessary. How about a computer control system for a nuclear power plant not designed by certified, trained, educated engineers? I think you can get my drift. I am a firm believer in people being flexible and able to learn things “on the Job” so to speak but sometimes that is just not the case.

  147. House Whine says:

    To all those knocking the quality of community colleges, at least in NJ, let me say that I got a great bang for my buck going there for a certificate program. Granted,some of the instructors weren’t good. However, I had the pleasure of having small classes and some really qualified instructors who could actually teach the subject. They were better teachers, emphasis on “teach”-ers than some of the professors I had at my prestigious university. Remember that professors have to be up on their research but that doesn’t mean they know how to teach. Some of them were incomprehensible and I ended up teaching myself (at the university, that is) by studying the textbook and skipping class.

  148. sas3 says:

    veto #142

    “We are going to move the entire society toward book learning, in a a way nobody has ever seen before.”

    I’ve seen it and it isn’t a pretty sight. It is called Urban India, where many college grads even this day “dream” of becoming call center agents.

    India is on the other extreme, where there is often little respect for labor, non-book knowledge, etc. Of course, there have been some changes in the past decade with IT boom where someone could take a short cut to a well paying and well respected job.

  149. veto that - lawrence yun 'the panda', 'next fall' says:

    i do agree that the thing that is a bubble is paying $80k to go to montclair state to get a maketing degree. In the new economy, most kids just out of school are be lucky to make $35-40K per year. It seems.

    Colleges will have to find a way to survive and that means lowering prices, even if it means pushing half the classes online.

  150. JJ says:

    But can everyone get in? India does not even have free elementary, Junior High and HS for everyone. When I was in Asia awhile back I was shocked High School was not free and you needed a certain GPA to get in so if you had poor parents or slacked off in 7th or 8th grade you were destined to a low menial job for life.

    sas3 says:
    May 11, 2010 at 1:55 pm
    jcer, higher ed with some scholarship is not a bad option. My college was subsidized (everyone in the college paid peanuts, and had access to some of the best facilities in India), and my grad school scholarship helped me financially support my folks back in India a little bit — a couple of hundred US bucks a month was a lot of money in India those days.

    A few years after I graduated college, the tuition fees were up by a factor of 30 or so — from ~ $20/semester to $500/semester, along with room costs ($1 per year to some reasonable amount). The costs I quote are the regular tuition, not for financial need based cases.

    S

  151. Final Doom says:

    sastry (137)-

    We’ve bungled our educational system so badly that our teachers are now as dumb and ignorant as the vast majority of students.

  152. Final Doom says:

    Cindy excluded from #154.

  153. BlueNDGold says:

    Re 126:
    Maybe all students that attend Union County work/attend school part-time? (Trying to stay positive)

  154. Final Doom says:

    One of my daughter’s “Blue Ribbon” teachers no longer comes to class.

    No repercussions, despite parental complaints. Tenure.

  155. sas3 says:

    Re #151

    “India is on the other extreme” — in relation to the focus of the blog today, and not in relation to the “Urban India” statement.

  156. Anon E. Moose says:

    OT – Nom [146];

    “in the words of my former girlfriend/combat medic…”

    Dude, where’d you go wrong? ;-)

  157. meter says:

    “Musicians aren’t born just knowing about music…”

    Assuming you mean the kind of musicians that are currently training at the college and graduate levels: that statement is entirely false. This is coming from a child prodigy, but still – I know the field.

    Teaching will enhance raw talent by expanding repertoire and broadening expression and interpretation but no amount of teaching will prepare someone with no talent to become a concert pianist, or even a second-chair flautist for that matter.

    In any event, I’m all for conservatory or better yet mentorship (if available). There’s no earthly reason to require a mezzo-soprano to take Biology 101.

    The same would hold true for any ‘creative fields’ whether it be writing, art, drama, or dance.

    The bubble is in the lie that we all need to be ‘well-rounded’ in order to be successful, or productive, or fill in the blank. People will follow their own interests naturally.

  158. meter says:

    “Lest just face it, it is unpopular to say now, but higher education is really for those who are gifted or wealthy, everyone else is better served to work because they have to and college does little to help them.”

    I’d leave it at gifted, if gifted equals an IQ over 115 and a drive to match (slightly above average). The wealthy can eff off, useless milquetoast sods that they usually are.

  159. JJ says:

    Until the US School system adds courses on operating Slurpee machines we will be highly dependent on the Indian educational system.

    sas3 says:
    May 11, 2010 at 2:07 pm
    Re #151

    “India is on the other extreme” — in relation to the focus of the blog today, and not in relation to the “Urban India” statement.

  160. JJ says:

    Ingvar Kamprad Elmtaryd Agunnaryd

    WOW, that is what IKEA stands for.

  161. veto that - lawrence yun 'the panda', 'next fall' says:

    Right now the best education that leads to a high paying jobs is in IT or Robotics where you will become skilled in making machines and computer systems that have the sole purpose of taking jobs away from average workers.

    This has been the case for the last 10-20 years and will continue at an increasing rate.

  162. meter says:

    US Exposure to EU Bailout: $50 Billion and Counting

    This makes me nauseous.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/37084075

  163. make money says:

    Gold settles at new all-time high of $1,220.3 an ounce.

    Why is this?

  164. make money says:

    meter,

    This whole thing will be spun off that we will actually make money on this bailout.

  165. meter says:

    Congrats, Make. I don’t begrudge a man his profits and kudos.

  166. make money says:

    Maybe all students that attend Union County work/attend school part-time? (Trying to stay positive)

    If you pass the stuff you and students are taking, I’ll test positive too.

  167. Essex says:

    154. Perhaps you are projecting a bit there mate. Just because your life is toast why completely dismiss the fun kids have in growing up and attending school.

  168. jcer says:

    meter, the wealthy don’t have to worry about it so they can do what they like, the cost is meaningless. Meter, again I addressed this, most people have innate skills that make them suited for particular things music is just one of those things. Some people have minds that work math and mathematical theory well, not everyone can learn theoretical mathematics and some will learn it more quickly than others. Some, rarely can take what others have done and expand on it further but not everyone can, some can be proficient, some simply cannot and others can innovate. Maybe the innovator learns with no formal education but it is beneficial to be taught a good foundation.

    115 IQ seems awfully low?

  169. Final Doom says:

    JJ (163)-

    And all this time, I thought it meant flimsy crap that breaks the minute it’s assembled.

    “WOW, that is what IKEA stands for.”

  170. Final Doom says:

    sx (170)-

    I don’t. In fact, the fun is all that’s left, since the rest of it is sheer idiocy and mind control.

    “…why completely dismiss the fun kids have in growing up and attending school.”

  171. meter says:

    115 is low, but it’s the bottom range of ‘above average’. As a bare minimum would still cut out a lot of the chaff. I’d rather it be higher, but I also acknowledge that IQ isn’t everything – e.g. without minimal drive or application a high IQ is worthless.

  172. Final Doom says:

    sx (170)-

    Not projecting, either. I somehow was lucky enough to receive an actual education and am constantly shocked and disgusted at the dreck we’re trying to pass off on the current generation.

  173. Al "Fat Thumbery" Gore says:

    166.

    “Gold settles at new all-time high of $1,220.3 an ounce.
    Why is this?”

    Because Gold is money always has been always will be. This is just the beginning we are going to 2000 and beyond.

    I cant dump my Federal Reserve Notes fast enough.

    Got funny money?

  174. sas says:

    “Got funny money?”

    got stockpiles of non perishables?

    SAS

  175. sas3 says:

    I think part of devaluation in higher education is because there are fewer safeguards in higher education (based on the tenure talk for elementary school teachers here, it seems that getting a tenure as a low-skilled teacher is orders of magnitude easier than getting a tenure as a college professor).

    Additionally, there is more emphasis on money or quick success — e.g. celebrating achievements of astronauts versus celebrating the latest IPO whizkid or hedge fund manager.

    May be man’s need for technology and medicine have evaporated once redtube and v!agra appeared. Added to this, poisonous discourse like “all climate scientists are colluding” does not help matters at all.

    I may sound like a commie, but communist USSR used to produce great scientists but didn’t take care of common people. Now, Russia produces Paris Hiltons and may be still doesn’t take care of common people.

    As they say, “Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it’s the other way.”

  176. sas says:

    “Until the US School system adds courses on operating Slurpee machines we will be highly dependent on the Indian educational system:

    we already are dependent.
    The US imports talent.

    Your public schools sucks, and you over pay for nothing. US schools dumb you down, sugar you up with caffeine until you need a Methylphenidate to numb you back down.

    and you think your Blue Ribbon means something? ha..ha ha.

    next you will tell me your wee planner says your portfolio is “diversified” to reduce risk.

    lol,

    SAS

  177. sas says:

    Its called the H-1B visa.

    SAS

  178. Al "Fat Thumbery" Gore says:

    Somehow I managed to squeak by an education while dodging the indoctrination.

    Sure by the year 2000 the homosexual propaganda was in full force but by then I was unable to be subverted. It was a close call indeed. A few years too late and I would have been an obese mindless sea animal flapping my fins on an X box.

  179. chicagofinance says:

    clot zero value post…..European banks are simultaneously shorting the Euro and going long shiny….

    make money says:
    May 11, 2010 at 2:23 pm
    Gold settles at new all-time high of $1,220.3 an ounce.
    Why is this?

  180. JJ says:

    SAS actually I don’t diversify. I follow the “buy winners” approach. In a normal portfolio 50% of the time you win, 50% of time you lose. In my approach I only buy winners.

    Indian/Asian schools are much harder than american schools but they don’t teach you to think. I once told an indian staffer on your next project I want you to “think the unthinkable and do the undoable”, he had this crazy blank look on his face.

    But getting to know him I learned he never fixed a car, never did home improvements, never did drugs or drank heavily, never was on a team, never held a job during school, never had a ski house or beach house or was in a frat or went to spring break. Heck he never even ate a hot dog or a burger. He did not even know Jesus was a real person he thought it was a myth, also knew very little about other cultures. Heck he did not even know to say God Bless you when a client sneezed or offer his opinion or challenge opinions of his bosses. He was a bookworm, very knowlegable about his religion and cluture, quiet and agreeable.

    His parents valued education and he studied and got straight A’s. He memorized and repeated back information. The he married who his parents told him and that was that.

    All of this Knowledge is not of any use in selling business, fitting in on a team, diversity and being a leader or capable of independent thought rather than following.

    I think the new India is getting away from this. But it is hard to break.

    sas says:
    May 11, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    next you will tell me your wee planner says your portfolio is “diversified” to reduce risk.

    lol,

    SAS

  181. JJ says:

    Isn’t the name Raghuram Rajan redundant?

  182. sas3 says:

    Al Gore:

    “Sure by the year 2000 the homosexual propaganda was in full force but by then I was unable to be subverted.”

    You were not able to be subverted — away from the propaganda that was in full force? :)

    The only agenda around Y2K was dot coms and day trading — and the filler news on TV “is your bicycle Y2K safe? buy a ton of canned food and an underground bunker to survive Y2K.”

  183. veto that - lawrence yun 'the panda', 'next fall' says:

    ‘precious’ bugs.

    Dont mean to brag.

    But ive been holding AUY for a long while now. Today was a good day. up 7%.

    A guy named BC gave me that tip.
    Havent seen him in a long long time. last i heard, he was planning on traveling Japan and Greece.

  184. Al "Fat Thumbery" Gore says:

    186.

    SAS3,

    What about the shark attacks?

  185. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [163] JJ

    Ironically, Kamprad, the founder, doesn’t live in Sweden, and hasn’t for some time.

    He is a taxpatriate and lives elsewhere in Europe to avoid Sweden’s U.S.-like taxation.

  186. Painhrtz says:

    SAS3 I miss Y2K a kinder gentler end of the world. Return to a luddite existence, cumbya all that jazz.

    none of this interconnected police state illuminati junk.

  187. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [186] sas3

    I must admit, I did “stockpile” a little bit for Y2K, but only about a week’s worth of food, and not nearly enough water.

    I was in banking before law, and I saw the emphasis the financial industry put on dealing with Y2K. They were way ahead of the curve. I had no concern about a major meltdown from Y2K.

    So when doomers were buying land in the mountains for their nompounds and stocking it with a year’s supply of dehydrated food, I was more than a bit bemused. I thought “what will they do with all of this when the world doesn’t end?”

    BTW, it was the experience of seeing people piss their money away that led me to believe that a nompound should not be a solitary venture. It’s one thing to buy insurance; its quite another to put your life savings into a death benefit.

  188. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [186] sas3

    Although my bicycle didn’t work after Y2K. Could never figure it out. :-0

  189. JJ says:

    I bought a house a few days befor Y2K while you nuts were hoading water. Broker with straight face told me I should lock in rates as after Y2K the rates will skyrocket when Y2K happens and I should move my cash for the downpayment. I was like Hello, was sleeping before midnight and when I woke up the world was still workign.

  190. Ben says:

    I’ve taught at the University and in high school. Some of the smartest people I know in science don’t stand a chance teaching a subject like General Chemistry. There are plenty of people out that have a in depth understanding of their field of expertise that would make the worst teachers ever. They have trouble comprehending the fact that certain people do not understand certain concepts at the drop of a hat.

  191. JJ says:

    what is the point of memorizing that whole periodic table?

  192. Al "Fat Thumbery" Gore says:

    192.

    Nom,

    I believe what we are facing will make the worst case scenario of Y2K look like a walk in the park. I didnt prep at all for Y2K.

    The end goal is global government and global currency. In order for that to happen fiat money must be destroyed.

    Order out of chaos.

  193. sas3 says:

    Also, I believe a large number of H1Bs in IT have never been educated in the US, so there is a big cultural gap. For guys that try to (unsuccessfully) hook up with international chicks in grad school, there is more interaction — often, well beyond baseball and football.

  194. Painhrtz says:

    Yeah Ben like my college Salvadorian organic chem professor , affectionately named el munchin el diabla, she could not teach for Sh!t. The only reason we all passed is all of us cheated on her final. The dumb Salvadorian smurf handed out the exam the day before for people who could not make the exam. Buddy copied the whole thing and we spent the entire night needing a Rosetta stone to figure out the answers. 5 questions counted for 70% of your grade. I was one of her star pupils with a 45 average there was no scale. She was let go the following year for her churlish disposition not her teaching accumen.

    Scary part is I have not seen her in 17 years and I still harbor deep seeded feelings of wanting to perform Saddam like torture on her.

  195. sas3 says:

    Pain got a crush on his Salvadorian teacher :)

  196. chicagofinance says:

    JJ says:
    May 11, 2010 at 3:08 pm
    Isn’t the name Raghuram Rajan redundant?

    He was a tough bitch of a professor….

  197. make money says:

    Shiny on stereoids…it must someone with a fat finger. Where is the PPT?

  198. make money says:

    ChiFi,

    All you need to know is that we are all going into the oblivion, timing is questionable.

    shiny will rule the world again.

  199. Painhrtz says:

    Dhanya-waad, my indian liberal friend. : ) But not the case

  200. JJ says:

    I used to love at Stony Brook they would distract the TAs collecting the finals and steal the one or two kids who were eggheads finals so they would get a zero and bring whole curve up. Guy on hall way knew number 3 or 4 is always number one. They used to publicly post grades back then so you knew who was screwing you. My favorite ballsy move of all time was a guy on my hall for the final sat there with nothing on his multiple choice for over an hour. This kid everyone hated he followed up and put his blank unsigned scantron sheet in pile, said whoops forgot to put in my name, pulled out other kids sheet erased name and wrote his own. We had no honor code so all that happens is he gets and F for cheating. Big time dice roll that worked big time. 800 kids in class no way they can figure it out

  201. Juice Box says:

    Make shiny is getting close to the cost of an OZ of Blow. When shiny crosses Blow lookout!

  202. Painhrtz says:

    No cult of personality here, no hero worship move along

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/05/jeep_sold_for_26k_in_watchung.html

    What is the moron that bought this hoping to get Obama’s man stink off of the driver’s seat even though there is an owner in between.

    All I can think of is it is Jon Voight’s car!

  203. Mr Hyde says:

    Juice,

    what is cross in hooker-hours/Oz AU???

  204. A.West says:

    Pain,
    I think there is some serious seat-sniffing going on in Ct right now.

  205. relo says:

    204: Got busted for that in 2nd grade. Went on for months using different kids. One day other kid put name on front and back of worksheet, only changed the front. Teacher was so embarrassed, didn’t tell my folks. Something must have been up though, parochial school for me after that. Nuns w/ hammer viable deterrent.

  206. Juice Box says:

    Hyde – the old NY Confidential Moroccan themed brothel that was down on Worth St used to charge 2k an hour for top talent. You could get laid at lunch if you wanted to, this when things were really flying.

    Today some places downtown you might find a mix of Wall Streeters out for a lunch break as well as Hasidim in prayer shawls decked out in their talis coming in for a quickie rub and tug for say $200.

    One thing about NY once they shut one down another dozen pop up to take their place, they don’t call it the oldest profession for nothing.

  207. make money says:

    Juice,

    If someone believes and invests in equities as an asset class over a period of time they’re called BULLS. If someone has the same belief for shiny as an asset class they’re named BUGS. RE people are being degraded to a dolphin. WTF???

    I went from a Dolpin to a Bug and soon will be Emperor.

    Wake me up when shiny and DOW are flirting with each other.

  208. Essex says:

    184. Great post John! Dead on. Education is so much more than the sum of it’s parts.

  209. make money says:

    John (184)

    Spot on.

  210. Mr Hyde says:

    Looks like the next PIIG is up to bat, Italy:

    Italy paid a high price for the sale of debt on Tuesday in the first test of investor appetite for new eurozone debt since the unveiling of a €750bn rescue package for the region.

    Although the €5.5bn auction of 12-month loans was twice covered, Italy had to pay the highest yield on 12-month loans for a year to attract investors.

    Analysts said Italy had to pay a premium of 15 basis points. -FT

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/275107b8-5ce4-11df-bd7e-00144feab49a.html?catid=8&SID=google

  211. Final Doom says:

    Don’t need no edumacation to shoot people.

  212. sas says:

    “SAS actually I don’t diversify. I follow the “buy winners” approach”

    all business depend on govt contract, subsidies, or bailouts (in one form or another).

    my best education: air america 1972, alot better than Tuck.

    SAS

  213. Mr Hyde says:

    Clot,

    Enjoy

  214. sas says:

    crap…I just spilled my dressing from my reuben sandwich on my keyboard.

    oh well, it’s made in china.

    SAS

  215. sas says:

    “1972”

    with Hmongs over Laos.

    SAS

  216. sas says:

    “Don’t need no edumacation to shoot people”

    no, but the dumb ones end up accidently shooting thenselves or someone else in the crossfire.

    SAS

  217. sas says:

    “but the dumb ones end up accidentally shooting themselves or someone else in the crossfire”

    -that reminds me..when people in the hoods tend to hold their sidearms to the side, I see that style in movies too.

    This sloppy shooting style is designed to hit anyone in sight with no discrimination. but, in most cases, as you hear in the news its some poor kid down range.

    Damn rookies.

    SAS

  218. stan says:

    to piggy back on the JJ HSBC 40th street thing.

    I have seen when the gold shipments come in. They block off the whole street with armed guards and back in enormous trucks where more aremd guards hop out. always found it inteeresting, but didnt know exactly what they were bringing in.

  219. Final Doom says:

    sas (219)-

    The dressing, the keyboard, or both?

    Got cadmium?

  220. Final Doom says:

    sas, can I come over and borrow a few shredded cardboard buns?

  221. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [193] jj

    ” bought a house a few days befor Y2K while you nuts were hoading water.”

    I hardly think 5 gallons is hoarding.

    I have more than that set aside now in case of a water pressure failure.

  222. Thanks for a great post and interesting comments. I found this post while searching for some song lyrics. Thanks for sharing this article.

  223. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [220] sas

    Still have your Montagnard crossbow?

  224. sas says:

    “sas, can I come over and borrow a few shredded cardboard buns?”

    Yeah..no kidding.
    I wouldn’t ingest anything from China, hell..I would even be surprised that after they harvest the organs..they use the rest of the body cavity as fillers for your toothpaste.

    just throw in a little sodium bicarb..and wala…

    SAS

  225. sas says:

    “Montagnard crossbow”

    I used a crossbow when I use to hunt deer.

    Hills deer, not prairie deer.

    prairie is too easy.

    SAS

  226. chicagofinance says:

    e-mail received

    I was told today that about 10 years ago, the town was faced with a similar situation – the budget failed and the town council wanted to cut a huge amount out. Hundreds of parents/kids/etc showed up at the meeting to show their support and it made a difference. Hopefully it can this year as well.

    This year, the town council wants to cut hundreds of thousands of dollars and teachers from the budget – in addition to the 17.5 teachers that were already let go based on the proposed budget.

    Please make an effort to attend the meeting tomorrow (Wed) at 7:30 at town hall. You can bring your children. And definitely your husband. (Off the record, we were told today that the councilmembers might not take a group of women seriously. If your husbands, fathers, etc show up too, they might!) Someone suggested today that you even invite your parents. Seeing that demographic there supporting the budget would make an impact, as well.

    If it looks too crowded, go in anyway. Try to push your way into the room. We were told that sometimes there are people blocking the door, yet there is still room inside.
    You don’t need to speak. Just show your support.

    Tomorrow night is our last chance to salvage next year’s (and the future) education.
    All future years budgets will be based on this one. The board can only raise the budget up to 4% from year to year. There’s no way they can reinstate dozens of teachers in one year, let alone several.

    —– Original Message —–

    The message of this email is simple: Show our Township Committee that we care.

    The Colts Neck Township Committee does not believe that the parents of Colts Neck Schools care. They believe that we do not care about the quality of our children’s public education, that we did not care enough to vote, that we do not care enough to save the jobs of more of our kid’s teachers.

    This Wednesday, May 12th at 7:30 at Town Hall is the final Colts Neck Township Committee meeting before the committee members announce what additional cuts must be made to the school budget. The numbers they are talking about are not small. The results of these cuts will be felt. Wednesday is our last chance to tell them that we want zero or minimal cuts to an already stretched tight school budget.

    Mom, dads and kids of Colts Neck are all encouraged to attend the Township Committee meeting at 7:30 on Wednesday night. Signs or t-shirts expressing how you feel are welcome. Prepare something to say or just stand in support.

    I know we are all busy at 7:30 on a school night but we need to show not just that we care but we are a force to be reckoned with. Please make this meeting a priority.

    I’ll see you there,
    xxxxxxxx

  227. chicagofinance says:

    Comments from above….

    “Someone suggested today that you even invite your parents.” So non-residents of the town should come just to fill up the room.

    “There’s no way they can reinstate dozens of teachers in one year, let alone several.” Just doesn’t get it.

    “…that we did not care enough to vote, that we do not care enough to save the jobs of more of our kid’s teachers…..” We care! We said no!

    Bear in mind, Colts Neck is a shrinking school district. Budget has been going up dramatically in the face of a decrease in student enrollment. It also is not a well regarded school district.

  228. sas says:

    “e-mail received”

    yikes

    SAS

  229. homeboken says:

    Chifi – Expect a low turn-out, Dancing with the Stars finale starts at 8pm, have to be there to see Kate Gosselin dance one last time.

  230. Essex says:

    232. I have never lived in a place (NJ) where public education is so dependent on a vote each year. It is a little pathetic.

  231. Essex says:

    It is like a telethon that politicizes something that is really just a basic service. It is crap like this that makes me want to move —

  232. Jim says:

    38. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:
    May 11, 2010 at 9:41 am
    There was a good discussion on the Weekend Thread about owning Physical Gold.

    Some poster mentioned Coast to Coast Coins as a good source. A quick google search turned up numerous complaints about this company.

    I posted about Coast to Coast Coins. I’ve ordered gold coins from them and never had any problems. Much better than many sites that advertise coins but don’t actually have much in stock. A large company is going to get some complaints, but I guess it also depends on what the nature of the complaints are. To me they always delivered as advertised by registered mail and what you order is in stock.

  233. House Whine says:

    Anybody out there know if it is true that the teachers don’t have to contribute at all to their Social Security from their paychecks? Do we taxpayers also pay for that?

  234. Essex says:

    238. He Whiner, didja ever find a job?

  235. House Whine says:

    239 – Yes, I am working. Just not doing the stuff I used to do but that’s ok for now. Juggling things for now.

  236. Essex says:

    Congrats!

  237. Fabius Maximus says:

    #124 nom
    “With respect to W” can be either “to give consideration to” or “to give esteem to”. If you wish to remove the ambiguity, change respect to regard. You will need to pluralize to get esteem. As I said before all my 101 courses were in the sciences as my college did not require 60 credits of GE to cover deficits in the national schooling system. As ambiuity is the fault of the author, you may look for a refund on those credits.

    Did GWB endorse? Yes he did and Kentucky split the Supreme Court down the middle. Part of my issue here, is again we have another Wingnut Double Standard (WDS). The right will harp on about the constitution right up to the point it does not suit their needs.
    Over the past few days you have thrown up that anyone who brings up the separation of church and state is an automatic Liberal. The Wall of Separation was one of Jefferson’s finest contributions to this great nation. But is goes against the argument that the nation was founded on Christian beliefs, so under the bus he goes.

    I think I’ll get that tee-shirt made it has a nice ring and a good level of sarcasm.

    Regards
    Fabius

  238. Al "Fat Thumbery" Gore says:

    Banks protesters storm Irish parliament.

    “Protesters have stormed Ireland’s parliament during a march against government plans to inject billions of euros into the country’s banks.

    Dozens of people broke away from the march and ran at the gates of the parliament’s main building, Leinster House.

    They wrestled with police, who tried to force them back and secure the gate.

    At least one man suffered a head injury during the scuffles with organisers appealing for calm.”

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/uk-ireland/banks-protesters-storm-parliament-14804947.html#ixzz0nefF58j4

    Dont worry Americans still have American idol and Doritos. All is well.

  239. House Whine says:

    241- Essex:
    Thank you for remembering me! It makes me feel less anonymous.

  240. Fabius Maximus says:

    The higer education debate can be distilled to one sentence.

    http://www.despair.com/potential.html

  241. Fabius Maximus says:

    Gold settles at new all-time high of $1,220.3 an ounce

    Why is silver not following?

  242. poor guy says:

    someone (paterson} realized state employees are too expensive. didn’t he get the memo that the bankfcuks of his state kept their bonuses? and why do demokrats voted for the bill?

    http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2010/05/11/govs-lame-duck-status-proves-helpful-as-albany-votes-for-furloughs/

  243. NJGator says:

    Sitting in a town council meeting. We are now more than 1 hour over on the discussion about the Town Animal Shelter. I wonder how much time they will now allocate to that minor agenda item of ‘budget’.

  244. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [242] funnius

    “The Wall of Separation was one of Jefferson’s finest contributions to this great nation. But is goes against the argument that the nation was founded on Christian beliefs, so under the bus he goes.”

    Sigh. Guess I am not making myself clear to you. Perhaps I should use crayon and avoid big words.

    There are volumes written in law reviews on this topic, by scholars who, I would wager, know more about this than you (or I), and to my knowledge, none of them suggested that Jefferson thought every vestige of religious thought or inference should be stricken from the village square and public record. I know, I read them.

    Further, you don’t, because you can’t, try to reconcile the idea that we can have complete separation of church and state, and a system of laws rooted in judeo-christian beliefs. You simply accept that they cannot be reconciled and attack anyone who introduces a thought that doesn’t fit with your narrow worldview.

    As I tell opposing counsel when I find them to be holding an unreasonable position, “I don’t have to convince you; I just have to convince the judge.”

    As you are so clearly in the same tedious camp as Schabadoo, plg, and my friend G, who can’t read past the labels that color your outlook and your rhetorical style, I won’t try to convince you that you are right. It’s much easier to convince everyone else that you are wrong.

    And I would love to see that T-shirt. Bring it to the next GTG.

  245. Final Doom says:

    gluteus maximus (242)-

    Your writing skill does not deliver the level of snark to which you aspire.

  246. Final Doom says:

    Perhaps Montklair can resolve its animal shelter situation by naming Gluteus Maximus dog catcher.

  247. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [242] fabulous

    Here you go. Just keep repeating it to yourself.

    http://www.despair.com/pretension.html

  248. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [251] doom

    Neither does mine, but then as a knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing, inbred, uncultured conservative, syntax, grammar, and a pithy, droll, style are not expected of me.

  249. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [244] WTF

    “Tax bills in 2009 at lowest level since 1950”

    Since you brought up a tax policy question, I will reply to it with a maxim concerning taxation that may explain this anomaly.

    Make less money, pay less tax.

  250. Final Doom says:

    plume (254)-

    Hey, you’re the counselor at law. Leave the assclowning to me.

  251. Final Doom says:

    The euro keeps going this way, somebody’s gonna get a pack of elephants and sack Rome:

    “First the fun stuff: gold hit an all time record today. To those who have had the foresight to realize that in the currency devaluation race to the bottom, the only winners will be non-dilutable precious metals (and not industrial gimmickry and bets on China’s excess capacity like copper), we salute you. In fact, so does the market: the S&P is now down 8% year to date when expressed in ounces of gold. Because while central banks can monetize, sterilize (whatever that means), and dilutize that last remnant of the dying Keynesian religion, the FRN and its equivalents around the world, gold is untouchable, and increases in value with each desperate attempt to save a failed economic system. Yet the bandwagon is once again getting heavy: the EUR is getting killed after hours, approaching $1.25 and is about to break the E-mini critical 117 yen support once again. Should central bank buyers not materialize, hello gravity. Which would also mean freefall for the ES. The bailout plan is now null and void, and in need of a bailout plan itself. The French banks won: we expect their FX traders to make a killing this year. We hope their contract demands bonus payment in gold.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/it-getting-ugly-quick-fiat-land-sp-now-down-8-ytd-non-dilutable-terms

  252. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [230] sas

    “I used a crossbow when I use to hunt deer.”

    I find the car door works pretty well.

  253. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [256] doom

    Yeah, you’re right. I have to get back to work now anyway. One partner wants me to explain call reports to the management of a mid-sized bank in NYC, and another wants me to advise on how to correct an inadvertent Qsub election.

    Maybe Gluteus with his superior brain can help. Or his other friends, the ones with heart and courage.

  254. Rusty Harpoon says:

    Tea Parties Rage as Taxes Hit Lowest Level Since 1950

    CLOSE [X]
    For almost a year and a half, furious Tea Party protesters have been chanting “Taxed Enough Already.” But as it turns out, “taxed enough” actually means “at the lowest levels since 1950.” That’s the word from the Bureau of Economic Analysis, which found that Americans paid the smallest overall tax bill since Harry Truman was in the White House. Of course, that inconvenient truth for Tea Bag More..gers is tied to another: their plummeting payments are due in part to the tax relief delivered by President Obama.

    USA Today summed up the BEA data debunking yet another right-wing myth:

    Federal, state and local taxes — including income, property, sales and other taxes — consumed 9.2% of all personal income in 2009, the lowest rate since 1950, the Bureau of Economic Analysis reports. That rate is far below the historic average of 12% for the last half-century. The overall tax burden hit bottom in December at 8.8% of income before rising slightly in the first three months of 2010.

    “The idea that taxes are high right now is pretty much nuts,” says Michael Ettlinger, head of economic policy at the liberal Center for American Progress.

    That conclusion echoed a similar finding from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities last month. CBPP found

    Middle-income Americans are now paying federal taxes at or near historically low levels, according to the latest available data. That’s true whether it comes to their federal income taxes or their total federal taxes.

    Several factors are fueling the reduced tax bill. For starters, the Bush recession has battered Americans’ incomes and slashed sales tax revenue. New and expanded tax credits signed into law by presidents Clinton and Bush also lightened the tax burden for working families. And importantly, the $160 billion in tax cuts delivered by the Obama stimulus program helped refill Americans’ bank accounts.

    But you’d never know it, judging from the incendiary rhetoric flowing from the Tea Party movement and amplified by its media stenographers.

    And in this case, ignorance is not bliss. While over 95% of working Americans received a tax cut thanks to President Obama and Congressional Democrats, a CBS poll found that Tea Party supporters literally didn’t believe it:

    Of people who support the grassroots, “Tea Party” movement, only 2 percent think taxes have been decreased, 46 percent say taxes are the same, and a whopping 44 percent say they believe taxes have gone up.

    It’s no wonder that despite their much publicized fury, 52% of Tea Party sympathizers “say their taxes are fair.” Of course, when it comes to taxes, what Tea Baggers don’t know is a lot.

    In March, former Reagan Treasury official Bruce Bartlett quantified the know-nothingness of proud if deluded anti-tax Tea Partiers. Among other findings in a survey of the assembled DC Tea Baggers on March 16:

    Tuesday’s Tea Party crowd, however, thought that federal taxes were almost three times as high as they actually are. The average response was 42% of GDP and the median 40%. The highest figure recorded in all of American history was half those figures: 20.9% at the peak of World War II in 1944.

    “For an antitax group,” Bartlett aptly concluded, “they don’t know much about taxes.”

    So the next time the Tea Party Republicans masquerading as independents call Barack Obama a socialist fascist communist or worse, remember the two words they should express to the President.

    Thank you

  255. Final Doom says:

    plume (259)-

    I’m really amazed you haven’t gone Full Metal Jacket on that crew of sociopaths at your office.

  256. Final Doom says:

    #260 is the single dumbest thing I’ve read this year.

  257. Outofstater says:

    #261 I think Nom must write nasty memos and then put them in the bottom drawer to age like fine wine. Me, I’d get fired at that place in a heartbeat.

  258. Pat says:

    OOS…I’d be smoking in the bathroom while I painted my non-existent nails.

    If I still smoked.

  259. Outofstater says:

    #264 I’d be setting wastepaper baskets on fire, with your cigarettes, of course.

  260. Final Doom says:

    I’d make a batch of homemade plastique and blow the place to kingdom come.

  261. Pat says:

    Smoking in the bathroom is clearly the most radical and effective approach to dealing with insane partners.

    Then, holding the cigarette in such a way as not to damage the wet nail polish, parade into the corner office and demand a 10% raise.

  262. Pat says:

    BTW, does anybody know what the decision was in that California civil rights case involving employer snooping without notice while employee had a reasonable expectation of privacy?

  263. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [261] doom

    There’s only one true sociopath here, and I don’t do much with him anymore.

    As sociopathic partners go, they are not as bad as some I have seen.

    [262] doom

    Yeah, there is so much wrong with that “story”, I don’t know where to begin. I have looked at similar “studies” produced by CBPP in the past, and they are junk science. Still, I would be interested in reviewing their methodology because some stories focus on percentage of income while others focus on overall receipts. They aren’t the same; it’s like comparing apples to hockey pucks. Further, the oversimplification, and blatantly inaccurate portrayal of the TEA party regulars is, well, it is intended to play to the base. Lots of other factual inaccuracies as well—I especially liked the part about the Obama tax cuts. Must have missed those changes to marginal rates.

    [263] stater

    Huh? I guess you concluded that the assignments I mentioned were drudgery. Actually, they aren’t and I am happy to be handed these particular balls. The reason I am on them now is that the clients want answers by the morning and this is the only time I have to work on them.

  264. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [260] rusty,

    Interesting stuff. I would love to talk tax policy over a beer or two at the next GTG. That was my favorite course in the Graduate Tax Program at NYU.

    Please say you will show? Pleeeeze?

  265. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [269]

    Should be footballs, not balls. Otherwise, Gluteus might get confused by the ambiguity, and suspect I was into teabagging.

  266. dan says:

    Rusty has got some of the biggest blinders on I’ve seen since that jerkoff who wanted the bike trail in Camden. Let me in on a little clue, I mean let me remind everyone else what you will gloss over. The people that go to the tea parties are actually the people that still pay taxes. The fact that Dear Leader is trying hard to find a way that 51% of the people don’t pay taxes doesn’t mean that those of us who work more hours for no raises or increases in pay/commissions aren’t getting screwed over by taxes. But don’t let the last NJ election results get in the way of your bull about whether believe you or the clowns quoted in the article.

  267. dan says:

    Wow, it’s late. I can’t even put two sentences together.

  268. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [263] OOS,

    This one takes the cake. It was circulated about the same time I was planning to leave my firm in DC, and a few people thought I had written it in anticipation of my exit, which was 3 months later.

    http://www.discourse.net/archives/2004/05/allow_me_to_fan_the_flames_of_your_burning_bridge.html

  269. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Dan,

    If I had the time right now, I could dissect the CPBB/CAP position for you and tell you how they came up with that drivel. In fact, to suggest it was a BEA analysis is shamefully misleading (it wasn’t–BEA doesn’t do that analysis, at least that is what my senior level contact there tells me).

  270. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    For you gold bugs, just in case you were wondering if you could do this:

    “It is the opinion of the Secretary of the Treasury that Public Law 93-373 did not repeal or alter the so-called Gold Clause Resolution of 1933 (31 U.S.C. 463). The Resolution prohibits any contractual provision which purports to give the obligee the option of requiring payment of the obligation in money or a specified amount of gold.”

  271. Fabius Maximus says:

    #250 Nom

    Does your post meet the criteria for ad hominen? I suppose I can make sense of your arguments if I look at it from a lawyers’ point of view. The content of the argument is irrelevant, if the only thing of relevance is the end result.

    When you label anyone who challenges something on the grounds of the separation of church and state a Liberal, that’s a very narrow viewpoint. Does that leave Liberals as the only ones upholding the constitution? There are no moderate republicans out there that would file such a suit?

    The scholars would say that the village square and public record can be peppered with religious thought or inference, free speech covers that, it just cannot be state sponsored or funded.

  272. Fabius Maximus says:

    #251 Clot

    My aspirations are fairly modest and therefore, easily achievable.

  273. Fabius Maximus says:

    #253 Nom

    I would have offered compromise.
    http://www.despair.com/compromise.html

  274. Fabius Maximus says:

    #268 Pat

    I think it came out as the employee had a reasonable expectation of privacy. I think the ruling was based on the fact that the company had examined the external emails on the computer after the associate had left the firm.

  275. Final Doom says:

    gluteus (278)-

    Thanks for lowering the bar here.

    A couple more guys like you, and this blog will be just like the real world.

  276. Fabius Maximus says:

    #281

    I thought that aspirations and asking prices were still high in the real world.

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