Bye Bye McMansions! (Good Riddance)

From the NY Times:

Builders Move Beyond McMansions in New Jersey

Faced with the prospect that New Jersey’s buildable open space could be gone by midcentury, developers are turning to projects that tap into existing infrastructure, use vacant buildings and emphasize the vertical over the horizontal.

A report released in July by Rowan and Rutgers Universities found that, after comparing aerial photos of the state, the years from 1986 to 2007 were New Jersey’s most sprawling period, when unprotected land was developed most rapidly.

When development ground to a halt in mid-2007 as the housing market collapsed, New Jersey had more acres of subdivisions and shopping malls than it had of upland forests and was down to its last million acres of developable land, according to the report, called “Changing Landscapes in the Garden State.”

“What will trigger denser development is that there’s no space left, and what is left no one can build on,” said David Henderson, a principal at HHG Development Associates, a Trenton company that focuses on sustainable building practices. According to the Rowan and Rutgers report, New Jersey is poised to become the first state to develop every acre of unprotected land, a milestone researchers predict will happen “sometime within the middle of the century.” But whatever the imperative, a number of untraditional projects seem to be finding acceptance with home buyers.

One answer to sprawl is to build up rather than out. In 2004, Toll Brothers and Pinnacle paid $76 million for a 24-acre former Maxwell House coffee factory on the Hoboken waterfront and razed the 11 original buildings. In their place rose two 12-story luxury condos with ground-floor retail shops and a new street grid that connected the public to the waterfront, which includes a park and a waterfront walkway.

Residential building permits in urban and suburban town centers in 15 regions across the country more than doubled from 1990 to 2008, particularly in the New York metropolitan area, where redevelopment in urban areas made up half of all new residential construction, according to a study, “Residential Construction Trends in America’s Metropolitan Regions,” released by the Environmental Protection Agency in January. The increases were particularly sharp in the last five years, with the trend continuing even in 2008, as the residential housing market weakened.

“I don’t see that McMansions are going to be the way of the future,” said Jacqueline Urgo, president of the Marketing Directors, a marketing and residential sales agency. “Opulence is out. It’s smart living that people are looking for.”

“This is the way things are heading. It’s all about affordability and sustainability today,” said Thomas Troy, a principal of Sharbell. “A lot of the shine around the McMansion is gone.”

This entry was posted in Economics, New Development, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

226 Responses to Bye Bye McMansions! (Good Riddance)

  1. grim says:

    From HousingWire:

    Wells Fargo settles with 8 states over pay-option ARM allegations

    Wells Fargo settled with eight state attorneys general offices after each alleged two of the bank’s subsidiaries deceptively marketed payment-option adjustable-rate mortgages.

    Wells Fargo will offer eligible borrowers at risk of these loans with a combination of rate reduction, loan-term extensions, and principal reductions. Up to 8,715 borrowers across Arizona, Florida, Colorado, New Jersey, Washington, Texas, Illinois and Nevada will be offered a modification between December and June 2013.

    It estimated that the settlement will generate more than $402 million in overall principal forgiveness. According to the Arizona AG, the settlement will provide $772 million in “total economic value,” which includes the modifications and money given directly to states.

    The states alleged Wachovia and Golden West marketed illegal pay-option ARMs that violated laws because the companies failed to explain that the minimum payment due in the first few years of the loan did not cover the full amount of accrued interest.

  2. grim says:

    From LoanSafe:

    New Jersey AG Announces $67 Million Loan Modification Settlement with Wells Fargo

    Attorney General Paula T. Dow announced today that Wells Fargo Home Mortgage has agreed to provide New Jersey consumers with nearly $67 million in loan modifications and pay the state $3.98 million to resolve allegations that companies it acquired – Wachovia Corporation, Golden West and World Savings — deceptively marketed adjustable rate mortgage loans.

    Acquired in 2008 by Wells Fargo, the companies sold thousands of so-called “Pick-a-Payment” adjustable rate mortgages in New Jersey by touting the mortgages’ low monthly payment options. However, the companies failed to warn borrowers that choosing the minimum-payment option could lead to a treadmill of debt. Specifically, a borrower’s “low” monthly payment option often failed to cover the interest on his or her loan. This resulted in an increase in the loan’s principal balance, causing the monthly payment to spike well beyond what the consumer expected to pay. Some borrowers became delinquent and faced the prospect of foreclosure. Others ultimately lost their homes.

    “This case is part of our on-going effort to protect New Jersey consumers, and to assist homeowners who may have fallen victim to misleading or exploitative lending practices,” said Attorney General Dow. “In many cases, those who seek out these ‘minimum payment’ option mortgages are the very people who have the most limited financial resources. Signing them up for loan terms that sound attractive without warning them of the potential financial pitfalls is wrong, and we intend to hold companies that engage in such conduct accountable.”

    New Jersey homeowners accounted for about 5 percent of the “Pick-a-Payment” loans acquired by Wells Fargo as part of its acquisitions of Wachovia, Golden West and World Savings in 2008.

  3. grim says:

    Lenny Dykstra’s home now priced near 50% off the 2007 purchase price from Wayne Gretsky.

    Lenny Dykstra’s Former Home Gets Another Deep Price Cut

  4. Essex says:

    3. Oh it’s a Richard Landry….well my, my, that’s a wonderful place and the design is simply impeccable. For the discriminating buyer this represents an opportunity to not only capture an essence and augment a lifestyle, but to make a statement that says…”I work hard and enjoy my perks”.

  5. Confused In NJ says:

    Obama should also issue direct government checks to those who overpaid without a mortgage. It’s only fair.

  6. Essex says:

    From the much vaunted Urban Dictionary….

    Thousand Oaks is an extremely boring bedroom community roughly 50 miles northwest of Los Angeles. Once a nice town with a western feel. Great place if you are a rich Republican or a mindless soccer mom. Nearly all the cool parks and nature are gone. Wildwood Park now smells like a sewer. Ventura County Sheriff harass teenagers on nearly an hourly basis. The odd thing is that it was a really cool place when i was a kid. “Thousand Oaks is boring”

  7. Essex says:

    5. Or let the MF burn if they din’t pay that $75 fire subscription fee.

  8. Yikes says:

    Good news! Can’t wait to hear how Republicans spin this negatively …

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/06/AR2010100607232.html

    The Obama administration announced Wednesday that in the past year it has deported a record number of unauthorized immigrants – more than 392,000, about half of whom were convicted criminals.

  9. Confused In NJ says:

    Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg sought federal permission on Wednesday to bar New York City’s 1.7 million recipients of food stamps from using them to buy soda or other sugared drinks.

    The request, made to the United States Department of Agriculture, which finances and sets the rules for the food-stamp program, is part of an aggressive anti-obesity push by the mayor that has also included advertisements, stricter rules on food sold in schools and an unsuccessful attempt to have the state impose a tax on the sugared drinks.

  10. Shore Guy says:

    ” Can’t wait to hear how Republicans spin this negatively …”

    We welcome this news as aa affirmation of our strategy and we welcome the President’s decision to step-up deportations as a good first step towards fixing the illegal alien problem that threatens America. Now rhat the President has seen the light, and recognized the necessity to deport the aliens who broke our laws by sneaking into this nation, we call upon the President to stop his foot draagging and to immediately resume building a secure fence across our southern border — which lies t the root of this crisis. Once the border is secure, the President’s deportaaations will, we trust, begin to reduce the numbers of illegals here in the United States, ths reducing the straain on hardworking american families who find it impossible to compete for entyr level jobs against illegals who are willing to work for illegal wages.

  11. Shore Guy says:

    Something like that, one would think.

  12. House Whine says:

    How are you supposed to build a secure fence across our entire southern border? Really, is that in any way possible??

  13. grim says:

    Isn’t that why mine fields were developed?

  14. a mad as hell reinvestor101 says:

    >> Confused In NJ says:
    October 7, 2010 at 7:11 am

    Obama should also issue direct government checks to those who overpaid without a mortgage. It’s only fair.<<

    Just like the various states who turned down the damn stimulus, I will NEVER take a stinking dime from Obama. I hate socialism. I will take all the damn money that the Fed can print up and give me. The Fed's money isn't tainted with filthy socialism and is more American.

  15. yo'me says:

    Senate Shockingly Passes Bill That Could Bail The Banks Out Of Foreclosure-Gate

    Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner told Reuters in an interview that the law would weaken protection of homeowners by requiring many states to accept lower standards for notarizations.

    She said it was “suspicious” that the law unexpectedly passed just as the mortgage industry is facing possible big costs from having filed false or improperly notarized documents.

    Notarizations are made by notaries licensed by individual states. The purpose of notarizations is to attest to the identity of the person whose signature is on a legal document.
    Even the bill’s own House sponsor is stunned by the speed with which this bell went through.

    So now it’s on the President’s desk to sign. ZeroHedge, which brought the story to our attention, is skeptical that he will. But vetos are rare. The path of least resistence is usually to just sign the bill and move on.

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bank-foreclosure-bill-leahy-2010-10#ixzz11fnYSpHI

  16. sx (4)-

    That house looks like it’d best be put to use as a set for p0rn flicks.

  17. whine (12)-

    Several centuries ago- with no heavy equipment and no modern engineering skill- the Chinese built a giant, impenetrable wall across their entire border. It still stands.

    I think we can secure our border. Problem is, it’s just too profitable for our fascist system to maintain status quo.

  18. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “The states represent the new systemic risk to financial markets,” says Whitney. “I see a lack of transparency and an abundance of complacency on the part of investors and politicians, just as we saw before the banks imploded.”

    “People keep saying it can’t happen, just as they said national housing prices could never go down,” says Whitney. “Now, it’s a real danger.”

    Worst states

    1. California

    2. New Jersey, Illinois, Ohio (tie)

    http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2010/09/28/meredith-whitneys-new-target-the-states/

  19. tard (14)-

    Glad to see you don’t allow your fascism to be tainted by soci@lism.

  20. Yikes says:

    oh, snap!

    Lou Dobbs had illegals working on his properties? Including one in Sussex, NJ?

    http://www.thenation.com/article/155209/lou-dobbs-american-hypocrite#node-155209

  21. yo (15)-

    Never doubt that we live in the United States of Banks. This whole robo-signer fraud will be old news by Xmas…and the banksters will be back at work, grinding every last morsel of wealth out of private citizens and saddling future generations with unpayable debts.

    Debt is the business of Amerika.

  22. yikes (20)-

    Who the hell else is Dobbs getting in Sussex? Mikeinwaiting?

    Good help is hard to find, yo.

  23. It’s hard to imagine that steve Lies-man doesn’t have a bounty on his head.

    He is now calling a “base formation” for about the 157th time.

  24. yo'me says:

    Jobless claim

    Prior Consensus Consensus Range Actual
    New Claims – Level 453 K 450 K 445 K to 460 K 445 K

  25. One has to admire Frank’s willingness to dare to be stupid.

  26. Libtard and the City says:

    Still Looking (about the GTG),

    Saturday evening or Sunday morning would work for us. Leaning towards the night, but since another 5-year old would be there, no need for a babysitter for either.

  27. Shore Guy says:

    “Really, is that in any way possible??”

    Uh, in a word, yes.

  28. Libtard and the City says:

    Yikes (on Dobbs):

    And the teabaggers will continue to embrace the hypocrite. They are all the same, regardless of affiliation. Better off not paying attention. I used to abhor the apathetic. Now I embrace it. Whenever someone says I don’t pay attention to politics, I say “smart move.”

  29. Mr Hyde says:

    SL,

    I would be in for Saturday night (tentatively) I am booked for Sunday.

  30. Last week’s jobless revised higher for about the 10,000th week in a row.

    Still, the MSM will not mention the lies.

  31. Barbara says:

    when you bulldoze the hundreds of acres of tract homes built from the 1950s levit towns to the 70s bilevels, that were never made to last more than 30 years, you free up considerable space.

  32. Mr Hyde says:

    34 Joyce

    Welcome to the banana republic!!!

  33. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Joyce [34]:

    That whole state rights dealo is so overrated.

  34. Anon E. Moose says:

    New Jersey is poised to become the first state to develop every acre

    Anyone who believes this crap and is willing to bet the cost of operating a single-engine aircraft for an hour or so on their belief is more than welcome to join me on a sightseeing flight over the lovely garden state.

  35. relo says:

    94: Yesterday’s post re: SWFL.

    A roofer friend of mine said they are now doing 20 a month for a national builder in one of the developments in the photos from the link. He said they are expecting a big “season” this year now that the new home pricing has dropped to match foreclosures (Ironically he has an investment property in foreclosure in the development). This is merely the latest rationalization in a five year stretch of “it should be back to normal is eighteen months”. I introduced him to BC’s “got demand”? I guess he feels he doesn’t have a choice.

    Al, people there are hoping for a hurricane as it is one of the few generators of work, however temporary it may be.

  36. Anon E. Moose says:

    Hyde [34];

    I like it. Its ridiculous that some submarine homedebtor thinks that who notarized the signature on the sale of their mortgage is more relevant to their foreclosure than the fact that they haven’t made a payment in years. TARP, HARP, HAMP, CRAMP – Gov’t needs to stop waving one mirage of salvation after another to these deadbeats. The sooner our government credibly says “Abandon all Hope”, the sooner the market correction will get underway in earnest.

  37. relo says:

    34: Was there ever any doubt?

  38. NJGator says:

    Still – Saturday night would definitely work best for us. Please let me know what we can make/bring. And Stu comes with his own chair these days, so no worries about furniture from us!

  39. SG says:

    Foreign investors find bargains in struggling U.S. real estate market

    Since January, 262 of the Viceroy’s 372 units have sold. But there’s a twist: Almost 90 percent of the buyers are foreigners. And they all paid cash.

    The Viceroy’s story is playing out across Miami. Individual investors from as far as Argentina, Canada, Colombia, France, Israel, Italy, Norway and Venezuela are swarming the city’s sales offices to get in on what they see as one of the greatest real estate fire sales in the history of the United States.

    At one time, these people would have invested in the U.S. stock market. Now they see the opportunity of a lifetime in the nation’s debilitated housing market.

    Colombians, who often call Miami the most beautiful city in their country, have always been drawn to Florida. The difference now is the upside-down economics. It is cheaper to buy in Miami than in Bogota, and you can fly between the two cities for $59 each way.

    “Muchos muchos muchos muchos opportunity,” says Elsa de Blaschke, who owns a construction company with her husband in Barranquilla, Colombia, and is hunting for an investment property to buy in Miami. De Blaschke chose not to invest the capital at home because she says Florida offers a better chance of a bigger return.

    In October, agents from 11 Sotheby’s International branches will descend on Hong Kong’s convention center to regale wealthy buyers there with slick visuals on showcase properties.

    In Toronto, agents from Florida Home Finders play to crowds of 800 every other Sunday at a Holiday Inn banquet hall. Jenny Huertas, Condo Vultures’ international sales director, throws seminars for potential clients across South America.

    “Their jaws drop. They can’t believe it,” Huertas says. “They think these deals are too good to be true.

  40. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [34] joyce

    Allow me to be the devil’s advocate (no pun intended). I think that this is much ado about little.

    This law brings certainty back to an issue once considered noncontroversial. There is an argument that notarized documents that are recorded are presumed valid under clause requiring states to recognize laws, articles, judgments, and records from other states. As a matter of comity, notarizations were never challenged (and there may (?) be state laws providing for such recognition, similar to guest driver statutes).

    Now that they will be recognized across state lines, it provides the same level of protection. However, it is a presumption of validity, and I don’t see how that prevents out-state notarizations from being challenged in the same manner as in-state notarizations.

  41. Mr Hyde says:

    Moose

    F both parties. You are suggesting the banks and their ilk get a free pass for playing fast and loose with established rules. The people not paying on their mortgages will take a hit as soon as the banks clean their mess up. Of course we cant have that because it would probably nuke the banks in the process. Never mind that a fair portion of the securitized mortgages are for all intents and purposes fraudulent. Forget about the deadbeat home owners, what about the fraudulent securities the banks sold to investors? If the banks were held to black letter law they would probably be vaporized overnight due them having to buy back a large % of the securitized mortgages at face value and possible face punitive damages from the investors.

    If you are so envious of the deadbeat home owners, go be one yourself.

  42. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [42] sg

    Let’s not overlook the tax and asset protection aspects of this trend.

    It has been an article of faith that the US is a safe haven for the well-to-do of other countries, which have (until recently) been more prone to forced redistribution than the US. Also, until FIRPTA, it used to be a nice tax shelter.

    Further, for certain countries (Canadian non-doms come to mind), there are great tax advantages to living for a period of time in the U.S.

  43. SG says:

    Shore home prices still falling

    Home prices at the Jersey Shore continue to search for a bottom, almost four years after the U.S. housing market took a downward turn.

    An analysis of second-quarter 2010 sale prices in Atlantic and Cape May Counties, done by Econsult Inc. vice president Kevin Gillen for Prudential Fox & Roach, shows that the typical Shore house has lost 24 percent of its value since the market’s peak in the second quarter of 2006.

    By comparison, Philadelphia’s single-family home prices fell 6.8 percent in the same period, U.S. prices dropped an average of 13.2 percent, and the average decline for New Jersey as a whole was 13.6 percent.

    The economy’s struggles have slapped the U.S. vacation-home market hard: In 2009, 533,000 such homes were sold, half the record 1.07 million sold in 2006.

    What’s more, and what explains much about the Shore’s price declines, the number of vacation-home purchases by investors nationally also has plunged since 2006 – to 940,000 in 2009, from 1.65 million in 2006.

    How distressed is the Shore? Since 2007, there have been 10,527 foreclosure filings in Atlantic County, with lenders taking back 1,236 homes, according to RealtyTrac Inc., of Irvine, Calif., which tracks U.S. foreclosures. For the same period in Cape May County, there were 4,665 filings and 580 lender repossessions.

    The hardest-hit town has been Atlantic City, where prices have nose-dived 63.3 percent since the market’s peak, Gillen’s analysis indicated.

    The latest Bureau of Labor Statistics data show that the leisure industry accounts for 53 percent of employment in the Atlantic City-Hammonton area. Seventy-five hundred casino workers have lost their jobs in recent years, with a domino effect on the investors whose condos they rented in Brigantine, Margate, and Ventnor.

    Atlantic City-Hammonton’s August unemployment rate was 11.5 percent. The rate for the state overall was 9.6 percent.

  44. still_looking says:

    GTG Update:

    It’s to be rescheduled for the 23rd of Oct, Sat. Kids welcome.

    Mr.SL has arranged the floor dude to be working on it late this week. The smell is fine if you spent the 1960’s huffing paint fumes. For a GTG, it might be interesting, but not really a great idea.

    Second, in efforts to include our blog host, to whom the still_lookings are indebted, the 23rd is a better date. As it turns out, better for us too.

    It would help if folks could RSVP via grim to me or to me – get my email from grim. I need some idea of a head count.

    sl

  45. hype (36)-

    Hard for states to assert rights when they’re all insolvent.

  46. relo (38)-

    This is sort of our version of China’s building ghost cities for 1mm people who never move in, then tearing the whole thing down.

    “Al, people there are hoping for a hurricane as it is one of the few generators of work, however temporary it may be.”

  47. gator (41)-

    I can see it now: trip, fall, lawsuit vs SL.

  48. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [49] lamar

    The states long ago spread their legs for the feds, just like an Atlantic City hooker. Any movement to assert states’ rights will have to go against TPTB in those states.

  49. Unexpected HEHEHE says:

    “Wells Fargo settled with eight state attorneys general offices after each alleged two of the bank’s subsidiaries deceptively marketed payment-option adjustable-rate mortgages.”

    Ah the old Pick A Payment Mortgages come back out of the woodwork. NOBODY could see how that wonderful Wachovia invention wasn’t going to end well.

  50. still_looking says:

    We’d like to take a moment to thank grim (and Clot/Doom/Pol/etc)

    We got really really lucky. We’d been watching the place for three years as it slid through the snake of preforeclosure, attempted short sale (fell through), foreclosure and then REO.

    We had the benefit of being close to keep watch on the condition of the place.
    We had the added benefit of the bank using a real estate agent who didn’t know the area (and hence, the value) at all.

    Grim can tell the negotiation part of the story and thankfully, THANKFULLY, kept us in line and from falling in love with the place — demandinghelping us to understand that walking away is the best option if it doesn’t work out.

    We had already started looking at renting houses as our home life here was evolving into a f*cking living hell and enough to jeopardize our marriage in not such a good way.

    We’re happy. He is the right guy to use for up here. Clot/Pol/Doom/ is the guy to use out in Somerset/Hunterdon. They will keep you out of trouble, without hurting your feelings but you may owe them scotch in the end. :)

    sl

  51. still_looking says:

    Poltroom, 52

    I may have Nom draft a waiver. :)

    sl

  52. still_looking says:

    Oops, meant for 51

    sl

  53. joyce says:

    (43)
    I do not claim to be an expert. However, I just foresee some judge “interpreting” the law in favor of the Banks/Govt and screwing individuals as is the usual practice.

    Just like in a case I read recently (State NJ v Crawley) which said (paraphrasing), “defendant has no right to flee from police or ignore an order from a police officer even if the investigatory stop is unconstitutional…… the defendant must simply comply and wait for remedy from judicial system”

    I had to read that nonsense over and over again to believe what the court said.

  54. JJ says:

    funny none of you believe the worst is over, but trust me it is. Houses I have been looking at that are priced right sell in days, I am talking million dollar homes. My buddy sold out of 2010 5 series people then bought all his pre-owned 5 series and now they are buying 7 series rather than wait a few months for a 2011 5 series. He yachts, motor homes and high end cars in his business and he can’t keep up on inventory to match demand. Heck let me use something as simple as Jets tickets the ultimate piss money down the toliet expense. I sold my two vikings tickets on stubhub for around $800 a pair. Sounds like a lot but the seats are all between goal line and 30 yard line in low rows are about that. But think about it in 2009 Jets could not sell non-psl UD seats with a $95 ticket price. Now magically people are lining up to pay hundreds of dollars per game. And don’t say it is becuase Jets are good, yea that helps. But game is on tv. It is free to watch. Cash is piling up and the roaring 2011 bull market is around the corner.

  55. SG says:

    still_looking: Congrats. I hope you remember me from our first every GTG at Sheraton in Parsippany.

  56. Anon E. Moose says:

    Hyde [44];

    Which established rules? You mean to rules of the mortgages these people signed that say if you don’t pay as agreed then the bank takes the house and sells it to the highest bidder to recover their money? Those rules?

    All securitized mortgages are fraudulent? Fannie and Freddie have been doing it for decades before the bubble without a hitch. Their bonds were the bedrock of investing that pension plans relied upon. That all because the underlying conforming loans fit a certain mold – 20% down or MI; 28/33 DTI ratios; verification of income and assets, etc.. The private label stuff, the deterioration of credit standards (see deadbeats, supra) changed that.

    If you are so envious of the deadbeat home owners, go be one yourself.

    Damn integrity always got in my way. If it wasn’t for that, I’d be rich, good looking, and have slept my way through the cheerleaders’ locker room.

    I had thought that being wrong (like about how much $$ was a good idea to spe3nd on a house, and what a given house was worth) had consequences. Turns out I was right that spending too much on a house was a bad idea, because hopes of exponential furture income growth don’t always come true, and you end up unable to pay what you promised you would; I was right that suburban ghetto POS capes really weren’t worth $750k a pop.

    But I was wrong in thinking that there were consequences to being wrong. As it turns out there is no reward to being right. Frankly that idea is paralyzing. Blue pill, please.

  57. Juice Box says:

    JJ – Bull market in Jets tickets? How about the unsold PSLs? Woody Johnson has to write a seven figure check for each of the eight home games to avoid an NFL Blackout. Buying up every game and giving away to charity is a bull market?

  58. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [47] SG

    One factor to look at in the Shore’s decline is taxes, and the impact of future tax enforcement. First, consider the fed’s effort to force more tax reporting on landlords. Seasonal rentals were a source of rampant tax evasion, and the feds (and an aggressive NJ DOR) want to impose reporting requirements on landlords that would expose this under-the-table income. Making shore house income fully taxable reduces profitability, and therefore their utility (and price). Second, because of the state’s bankrupt condition, I am sure that a lot of owners are looking to reduce their tax exposure to New Jersey. Even if you aren’t reporting rental income, you still cannot avoid property taxes.

    For those that remain, aggressive tax planning will result in a lot of title transfers.

  59. still_looking says:

    SG

    Oddly enough, that’s the GTG that I remember most… maybe I had less wine at that one (just joking…) Yes, I remember you. You probably wouldn’t remember me… I was growing my hair to donate and it was really really long. ( donated it about 6 months later to the Pantene group who make wigs for women with cancer.)

    sl

  60. joyce says:

    (60)
    The contracts that the buyers/debtors signed, the banks also signed. The contracts also spelled out the way the foreclosure would proceed, as per State laws. Those laws have to be followed.

    Not to mention during the mortgage/purchase process and securitization process and transfer into REMICs, the banks had to follow those IRS rules/regulation and State documentation laws. Apparently, they did not.

  61. relo says:

    SL,

    Congrats and good luck. Whereabouts is your place (generally, of course)? I recall you mentioning a view of the Saddle River which means you’re probably not too far from us.

  62. he (53)-

    Pick-a-Pay was actually the invention of Golden West Mortgage’s husband/wife team of Herb and Marion Sandler…who laughed all the way to the proverbial bank when they foisted off that festering pustule of a company to Wachovia.

    Those loans remain some of the scummiest written during the whole boom cycle.

  63. jj (58)-

    Priced in gold, Jets PSLs are still a big loser.

    We are all Zimbabwean now.

  64. jj (58)-

    I have a chest full of Confederate money. Pretty soon, it will be at par with the USD. Your statement is akin to saying that you have a year’s worth of asswipe stockpiled in your basement.

    “Cash is piling up and the roaring 2011 bull market is around the corner.”

  65. moose (60)-

    I wouldn’t be presenting this fact as a positive.

    “All securitized mortgages are fraudulent? Fannie and Freddie have been doing it for decades before the bubble without a hitch. Their bonds were the bedrock of investing that pension plans relied upon.”

  66. Mr Hyde says:

    Moose,

    fannie and freddie have been selling hollow securities for decades? They have been selling securities in which the banks are acquiring the title AFTER the sale took place, which is incidentally illegal? Its not the securitization that is the problem, but their illegal methods.

    The homeowners are not violating the law by prolonging the foreclosure process, the banks are violating the law in trying to accelerate it. Once again, why are you so hard up for the banks when the home owners are simply acting in a similar yet legal manner compared to the banks. I havent heard you rail about the corporations that have been walking on mortgages? whats the difference?

  67. Methinks Moose may have corporate paymasters.

    Eat my bread, do my will.

  68. Unexpected HEHEHE says:

    Clot,

    I stand corrected. In any event, I think it says alot about the current state of this country when one of our greatest moments of economic ingenuity the past decade was the “Pick-a-pay” mortgage. Certainly right up there with the Model-T and the light bulb.

  69. Shore Guy says:

    And the RonCo Pocket Fisherman.

  70. relo says:

    60: Moose,

    So, in summary, life ain’t fair. Who knew?

  71. stan says:

    “But I was wrong in thinking that there were consequences to being wrong. As it turns out there is no reward to being right. Frankly that idea is paralyzing”

    I have a hard time disagreeing with this statement.

  72. wtf says:

    (9) That explains this commercial from the NYC Dept of Health…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62JMfv0tf3Q&feature=player_embedded

  73. Orion says:

    47-
    “The hardest-hit town has been Atlantic City, where prices have nose-dived 63.3 percent since the market’s peak, Gillen’s analysis indicated.”

    That’s what I’m talking about. Roadkill, baby.

  74. Anon E. Moose says:

    Hyde [70];

    The homeowners are not violating the law by prolonging the foreclosure process

    “Law” isn’t just legislation; it isn’t just what’s enforced by the police. The courts make “law” too. The idea of civil liability for breaking other people’s stuff, enforceable only through the courts, and probably not written into any legislation, is part of “the law” too. The fact that a court will enforce a contract between parties is part of “the law”. Breach of contract may have different consequences than criminal action (no debtor’s prisons, alas), but its breaking “the law”. There’s nothing sacred or exclusive about legislative edicts, or sanctions imposed by the government being part of the “the law”.

    “The law” also recognizes the difference between substance and proceedure. Not paying a mortgage as agreed is substance. Who notarized the process servers’ signature on your foreclosure papers is proceedure. The court places more emphasis on the former, and will commonly overlook irregularities in the latter – so long as the underlying purpose of the proceedure is met. Did the deadbeat have enough notice to show up and put on his case? If yes, it really doesn’t much matter how he got the papers and who notarized the signature of the person who delivered them.

  75. Anon E. Moose says:

    Lamar-Pol-Clot-Doom-whatever [71];

    Getting criticized for my [presumed] line of work by a used house salesman. That’s rich.

  76. stan says:

    Frank,

    Hoboken is seeing new lows across the board. There is a listing in the Constitution going for 559K. Identical units sold for 900K four years ago.

    The site you reference, which I believe I turned you on to when I posted the figures here, shows a year supply of housing and the posters there have turned bearish. You are the last holdout

    We will welcome you with open arms, come to Jesus.

  77. yo'me says:

    Dow 11K on the retreat.Got Red Bull?

  78. joyce says:

    (78)
    “Law” isn’t just legislation; it isn’t just what’s enforced by the police. The courts make “law” too. The idea of civil liability for breaking other people’s stuff, enforceable only through the courts, and probably not written into any legislation, is part of “the law” too. The fact that a court will enforce a contract between parties is part of “the law”.

    There’s common (criminal) law and Equity (civil) law… and then there’s statutes. All very different.

    “The court places more emphasis on the former, and will commonly overlook irregularities in the latter…”

    That’s not a good thing. That’s in fact a horrible thing.

    “If yes, it really doesn’t much matter how he got the papers and who notarized the signature of the person who delivered them.”

    Yes it does, produce the note! Notarization is very important. It’s called fraud when it’s not properly performed.

  79. DL says:

    Some alternate not-too-distant futures:
    1. China approves foreign aid for California
    2. US trucking companies hire armed security details to accompany drivers
    3. New international currency regime backed by gold
    4. States have legal right to repeal federal legislation
    5.U.S. Army, Mexican armies exchange shots across border
    6. Pakistan invades Afghanistan
    7. Russia becomes EU member – NATO dissolves
    8. Microsoft relocates to India

  80. Poltroon says:

    moose (79)-

    Exactly how does it feel to be a factotum in our new two-tiered system of law?

  81. Poltroon says:

    moose (79)-

    You also didn’t answer the question posed in #71. Are we to take it that my assumption is correct?

  82. Poltroon says:

    Law in the US:

    Tier 1: rich, politicians, corporations, banks, any other entity with juice

    Tier 2: schmoes like us

  83. Poltroon says:

    stan (80)-

    Honestly, even Jesus might tell Frank to piss off.

    “We will welcome you with open arms, come to Jesus.”

  84. Poltroon says:

    joyce (82)-

    You’re so naive. All entities falling into Tier 1 of our new, improved legal system can do whatever they want. Only little people commit frauds.

  85. hughesrep says:

    86

    American democracy in a nutshell – 2 wolves (The wealthy top 4%) and 1 sheep (Bottom 96%) are arguing about what to have for lunch, guess what they are having.

  86. Juice Box says:

    This Belmar abomination (no wrap around porch!) on sale for 1.45 M yet will be auctioned by the Sheriff for 1.08 M at the end of the month. How about dropping the price or is there another 400k second loan?

    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/304-9th-Ave_Belmar_NJ_07719_M67854-01894?source=hp

  87. Anon E. Moose says:

    Pol [85];

    A male fluffer could hold his head high when one of your guild is in the room.

  88. hughesrep says:

    90

    Nice neighbors too I’m guessing, 9th Ave. Illegal immigrants from September until May, Snooki and crew from June to August.

    Quite a few Belmar, Manasquan, Brielle properites on the foreclosure list I was looking at this week.

  89. Juice Box says:

    re: #92 – If you look at recent sales not all are going back to the bank.

  90. Poltroon says:

    moose (91)-

    Interesting that you can’t answer simple questions and continue to carry water here for thug corporations.

    Fluff me, asshole.

  91. Poltroon says:

    So which is it, Moose? You flack for banks? Corporations? Or, are you just an ambulance chaser?

  92. Poltroon says:

    Bitter renter…that we know.

  93. Mike says:

    Three more days until open house Sunday, looking for some new comic talent out there, last weeks were all duds except for the one who told me the owners won’t take a Lincoln cent lower. I tried to negotiate keeping the mid 60’s furniture to match the 1960’s update.

  94. Anon E. Moose says:

    Joyce [82];

    The point was that a deadbeat not paying money as agreed under contract is, in fact, ‘breaking the law’. Pointlessly draging out foreclosure proceedings to the detrement of the note holder has real costs, costs that will never be paid by the deadbeat – he’s got no money after all, otherwise he wouldn’t be a deadbeat.

    ‘Is some functionary’s signature propertly notarized’ pales in comparison to ‘is the note being paid as agreed? The purpose of notarizing a signature is to assure that the individual signing is identified as the person he claims to be. Take the deadbeat on the original note, for example. Say that the original note is lost, and a duplicate is presented with another notarty’s stamp. Does that mean the the deadbeat didn;t recive the money to purcchase the house? Does that mean that the deadbeat has not been living in the house purchased with that borrowed money? Does that change the fact that the deadbeat hasn’t paid instalments of the note?

    The purpose of the notary is to prevent a true fraud, that is claiming you or I are liable on some note in a state neither of us have ever been to, on the basis of a forged signature. Hardly the case here, and the notarization of a transactiomn between subsequent assignees of the note is quite beside the point.

    So stop holding up the dollars to wait for the dimes. Ding the bank $25k per case for misrepresentation, and get on to the heart of the matter concerning the $250k houses.

  95. Mr Hyde says:

    Clot

    what 2 sets of laws????

    Kentucky lawyer Heather Boone McKeever has filed a state class-action suit and a federal civil racketeering class-action suit on behalf of homeowners facing foreclosure, alleging that MERS and financial firms that did business with it have tried to foreclose on homes without holding proper titles.

    “They have no legal standing and no right to foreclose,” McKeever said. “If you or I did this one time, we’d be in jail.”

    Never!

  96. Mr Hyde says:

    It has been pointed out that the bill being pushed through to cover the banks will likely act like the interest rate law changes did. That is pass a law saying all states have to accept each others notary regulations and then the banks buy out 1 state to enact ridiculously lax notary regulation. Similar to the lack of real usury laws in South dakota is used to jack credit card interest rates.

    For big banks, “there’s a possible nightmare scenario here that no foreclosure is valid,” said Nancy Bush, a banking analyst from NAB Research. If millions of foreclosures past and present were invalidated because of the way the hurried securitization process muddied the chain of ownership, banks could face lawsuits from homeowners and from investors who bought stakes in the mortgage securities – an expensive and potentially crippling proposition.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/06/AR2010100607227_pf.html

  97. Mr Hyde says:

    Sue em’ all and let god sort them out

    Janet Tavakoli, founder and president of Tavakoli Structured Finance, a Chicago-based consulting firm, said that for much of the past decade, when banks were creating mortgage-backed securities as fast as possible, there was little time to check all the documents and make sure the paperwork was in order.

    But now, when judges, lawyers and elected officials are demanding proper paperwork before foreclosures can proceed, the banks’ paperwork problems have been laid bare, she said.

    The result: “Banks are vulnerable to lawsuits from investors in the [securitization] trusts,” Tavakoli said.

  98. Mr Hyde says:

    Yep this is kosher, nothing fraudulent or illegal going on here!!!

    ..from the latest deposition out of florida

    1 Q Let’s go to the assignments of mortgage. They
    2 were prepared in-house?
    3 A Yeah.
    4 Q You’re smiling. You want to tell me about
    5 them?
    6 A Assignments were done sometimes after the
    7 final judgement was entered.
    8 Q Do you know why that is?
    9 A Because that’s what we were directed to do

    19 Q Can you tell me the execution of the
    20 assignments, how it worked?
    21 A Assignments were prepared again from the
    22 casesum. All of our stuff comes from the casesum. They
    23 would be stamped and signed by a notary or not. Per
    24 floor we had a designated spot to place them and Cheryl
    25 would come once a day and sign them.
    22
    1 Q Sign them as what?
    2 A As –
    3 Q For the bank?
    4 A Correct.
    5 Q Or for MERS or whoever it was for?
    6 A Correct.
    7 Q Would these notaries be there watching her as
    8 she signed?
    9 A No.
    10 Q She would just sit there and sign stacks of
    11 them?
    12 A Correct. As far as notaries go in the firm I
    13 don’t think any notary actually used their own notary
    14 stamp. The team used them.
    15 Q There were just stamps around?
    16 A Yes.
    17 Q And you actually saw that?
    18 A I was part of that.
    19 Q You did it? Are you a notary?
    20 A No, I’m not.
    21 Q Did you sign as a witness?
    22 A I did not. I signed as a witness on one
    23 document and after that I decided that I didn’t want to
    24 put my name as a witness anymore.
    25 Q Tell me about the stamps. You stamped them?
    23
    1 A Yeah, I had stamps. Each team had a notary on
    2 them or notaries that I was aware of. Whether they were
    3 or weren’t wasn’t –
    4 Q You had stamps?
    5 A Correct. We would stamp them and they would
    6 get signed.
    7 Q Stamp them in blanks?
    8 A Yes.
    9 Q Who would sign them?
    10 A Other people on the team that could sign the
    11 signature of the person or just a check on there or
    12 whatever.
    13 Q Was that common practice?
    14 A Yes.
    15 Q Was that standard practice?
    16 A Pretty much.
    17 Q What about the witnesses?
    18 A Those would be signed by juniors who were –
    19 Q Standing there?
    20 A Here, sign this. It has to go to Cheryl, sign
    21 it. Then it would go and sit at the desk where Cheryl
    22 would sign everything.
    23 Q Out of view of the notary and out of view of
    24 the witnesses?
    25 A Correct.

    http://4closurefraud.org/2010/10/07/exclusive-bombshell-of-foreclosure-fraud-full-deposition-of-tammie-lou-kapusta-law-office-of-david-j-stern/

  99. Mr Hyde says:

    More juicy goodness

    25 A They wanted us to start changing the documents
    33
    1 and stuff and doing stuff that we weren’t supposed to be
    2 doing as far as service.
    3 Q What documents did they want you to change?
    4 A Manpower documents. A lot of judges started
    5 requiring, because of the Jane and John Doe issues,
    6 required that you have a military search for all the
    7 defendants. If you named a Jane and John Doe as an NKA
    8 you had to pull a military search on them. Unless you
    9 have somebody’s social security number technically you
    10 can’t pull a military search supposedly.
    11 The program that we used for the program that
    12 we used, you could put in the main defendant’s social
    13 security and John or Jane Doe’s name and it would give
    14 us a military search saying that they were in the
    15 military.
    16 Q You would get their social security number
    17 because the bank documents contained it?
    18 A Correct. The lenders, the referrals had the
    19 socials.
    20 Q Did you put the social in on everybody to find
    21 out their address for service?
    22 A Not everybody. I personally did not do it
    23 because I refused to do it. I wasn’t going to falsify a
    24 military document. I was told that that’s fine,
    25 somebody else on your team will do it.
    1 Q What do you mean falsify a military document?
    2 A Well, I’m using the main defendant’s social
    3 security number on somebody else’s name, not his name.

    Nope all the documents and foreclosures processed by this group are just fine!!! All 30,ooo, 40,000, however many tens of thousands of documents they processed!!!!

  100. Mr Hyde says:

    11 Q So why wouldn’t they use the right social
    12 security number for the right person?
    13 A Because you don’t have a social for an NKA or
    14 unknown tenant. They wouldn’t enter a final judgement
    15 unless the military doc was there.
    16 Q So you just used anybody’s?
    17 A Correct.

  101. Mr Hyde says:

    I wonder if Cheryl is getting a little concerned at this point? I doubt the CEO or head partner of this groups intends to go down for this.

  102. Mr Hyde says:

    Cheryl,

    I here brazil is nice this time of year

    Q Cheryl knew about all the practices because
    13 she is the one who ran the office?
    14 A She was the one who implemented them.
    15 Q Were there any other activities or practices
    16 over at David Stern’s firm that made you feel
    17 uncomfortable or that you were unwilling to do?
    18 A I don’t know how to answer that question.
    19 It’s a loaded one.
    20 Q Take your time.
    21 A Yeah. Some of the things that were done there
    22 just were not on the up and up.
    23 Q Explain to me in as much detail as you can
    24 what those things were.
    25 A I don’t even know where to start with it.

  103. Mr Hyde says:

    Moose

    The purpose of the notary is to prevent a true fraud,

    HAHAHAHA LOL

    Read my post at 102 and try and say that again with a straight face. No try and tell me that this activity was limited to this one law firm in Florida when the structure of LPS and their competitors essentially guaranteed this sort of operation.

    Do you work for LPS, for one of the banks, or perhaps one of the involved law firms?

  104. chicagofinance says:

    26.Lamar, aka Poltroon says:
    October 7, 2010 at 8:47 am
    One has to admire Frank’s willingness to dare to be stupid.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HmsuPmtl3E

  105. Mr Hyde says:

    Moose,

    Incase you missed it

    7 Q Would these notaries be there watching her as
    8 she signed?
    9 A No.
    10 Q She would just sit there and sign stacks of
    11 them?
    12 A Correct. As far as notaries go in the firm I
    13 don’t think any notary actually used their own notary
    14 stamp. The team used them.
    15 Q There were just stamps around?
    16 A Yes.
    17 Q And you actually saw that?
    18 A I was part of that.
    19 Q You did it? Are you a notary?
    20 A No, I’m not.
    21 Q Did you sign as a witness?
    22 A I did not. I signed as a witness on one
    23 document and after that I decided that I didn’t want to
    24 put my name as a witness anymore.
    25 Q Tell me about the stamps. You stamped them?
    23
    1 A Yeah, I had stamps. Each team had a notary on
    2 them or notaries that I was aware of. Whether they were
    3 or weren’t wasn’t –
    4 Q You had stamps?
    5 A Correct. We would stamp them and they would
    6 get signed.
    7 Q Stamp them in blanks?
    8 A Yes.
    9 Q Who would sign them?
    10 A Other people on the team that could sign the
    11 signature of the person or just a check on there or
    12 whatever.
    13 Q Was that common practice?
    14 A Yes.
    15 Q Was that standard practice?
    16 A Pretty much.
    17 Q What about the witnesses?
    18 A Those would be signed by juniors who were –
    19 Q Standing there?
    20 A Here, sign this. It has to go to Cheryl, sign
    21 it. Then it would go and sit at the desk where Cheryl
    22 would sign everything.
    23 Q Out of view of the notary and out of view of
    24 the witnesses?
    25 A Correct.

  106. Anon E. Moose says:

    OK. The banks were baaaaad boys. The MERS transfers pertains to a transfer from the originating bank to the MBS/CDO trust security. The notes had to be signed by someone with authority to bind the selling bank, and that signature had to be notarized. The SOP was the head of the department, the individual designated by the bank with authority to act on their behalf, robo-signed thousands of them. Then the underlings who prepared the forms used any notary stamp handy to ‘notarize’ the signatures, whether or not they actually saw her sign as a notary should, or whether they were in fact a notary, or the particular notary whose stamp was being used. ‘Juniors’ signed documents as witnesses without regard to what they witnessed.

    Remind me how exactly any of this relieves the deadbeat of his obligation to pay his monthly nut?

  107. Juice Box says:

    re#105 – Hyde – A Florida Judge already ruled that the Attorney General cannot subpoena law firms for records while going after the lawyers (David J Stern in particular) in these Florida Foreclosure Mill Cases.

    Judge ruled that the Attorney General “lacks jurisdiction to gather data from a law firm”.

    http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9ILK12O0.htm

  108. Mr Hyde says:

    Wow, Its a good thing we are only worried about True Fraud

    21Q Did you ever hear of any problems with service
    22 of process, any complaints?
    23A Those were daily phone calls.
    24Q Could you tell me about them.
    25A People were not served.
    1Q How did they know they weren’t served?
    2A Well, some of them would go to do
    3 modifications on loans or go to take out other things
    4 and it would come up that they were in foreclosure and
    5 they would end up finding out that way that they was no
    6 actual service on them. I had tenants that were served
    7 saying that they were the property owners and they
    8 weren’t the property owners. Service was a complete
    9 mess.
    10Q At whose direction was service perfected?
    11A Cheryl Samons.
    12Q Did Cheryl Samons to the best of your
    13 knowledge tell the process servers just to serve
    14 anybody?
    15A I don’t know that she told them that but when
    16 we would get the phone calls it would be what she would
    17 call a business decision on whether the service was
    18 completed or not. We were directed to do whatever she
    19 said.
    20Q Didn’t the process server deliver a return of
    21 service?
    22A Yes.
    23Q And would they say that it was served?
    24A Yes.
    25Q And oftentimes they weren’t? Is that what
    1 you’re saying?
    2A Correct.
    3Q Did you have times when service was attempted
    4 numerous times or on people that did not live at the
    5 property?
    6A I don’t understand.
    7Q One property might have two owners; a husband
    8 and a wife.
    9A Correct.
    10Q But then the law firm would send out a
    11 subpoena for tenants A,B,C,D,E,F,G and get ten service
    12 fees for only two people?
    13A Oh yeah. That was done regularly.
    14Q Was that done intentionally to build up the
    15 service fees?
    16A I would assume so. If you’re serving the
    17 defendant at the property you can’t serve Jane and John
    18 Doe if you’ve already served the defendant there,
    19 correct?
    20Q If you say so. So they would send out
    21 multiple services?
    22A Correct. There was always a Jane and John
    23 Doe. Sometimes there would be a spouse, unknown spouse,
    24 spouse, unknown spouse. In other words, if it was Mary
    25 Jane it would be the unknown spouse of Mary Jane. Then
    16
    1 if it was James it would be the unknown spouse of James
    2 They changed it periodically on how they did it.
    3Q They’d also add tenants?
    4A Correct. There was a fee for everyone.
    5Q Do you know what the fees were?
    6A I believe it was forty-five dollars for
    7 service at one attempt. Obviously two attempts was the
    8 ninety dollars. Anything out of state was a hundred and
    9 eighty dollars. It was out-of-state notices of action.
    10 They did skip tracing. They charged an additional I
    11 believe that was eighty.
    12Q Did they do the skip tracing?
    13A I can’t guarantee that. They said they did
    14 it.
    15Q Who was billed the forty-five dollars? Let’s
    16 just say it was the one service. Who was billed?
    17A It goes back to the borrowers.
    18Q Eventually?
    19A Well, it goes into your Affidavit A’s and it’s
    20 part of your service.
    21Q Right. Okay. Before that. Because the
    22 homeowner or the borrower or the defaulted one might not
    23 pay so the process server has to get paid. Who pays
    24 them?
    25A I would imagine it comes from the banks where
    1 it’s being billed to.
    2Q It’s being billed to the banks?
    3A Correct.
    4Q It’s not being billed to David Stern?
    5A Well, David Stern pays the bills but in return
    6 I would imagine he’s getting paid by the banks from what
    7 we know. I don’t know that for sure.
    8Q Do you ever have any reason to believe that if
    9 the process server served one forty-five dollar bill
    10 that it went into the affidavit as two or three?
    11A I’m not sure I understand.
    12Q If the affidavits that were filled out by Law
    13 Offices of David Stern reflected the actual bill that
    14 was billed or did they bill the homeowner more?
    15A There was always a fee for the Jane and John
    16 Does in the bill. The bills always consisted of the
    17 defendant, an unknown spouse of the defendant if there
    18 wasn’t a spouse, and always a Jane and John Doe.
    19Q So they were always billed for four of five?
    20A Correct.

  109. Poltroon says:

    I am going to start a new business: self-service notary kiosks.

    You’re a real piece of work, Moose. Any of your corporate paymasters have you go down on them yet?

  110. Poltroon says:

    hyde (112)-

    I thought we’d already established that only the little people commit frauds. When a bank or corporation does it, it’s called “doing business”.

  111. Poltroon says:

    When I was five years old, I used to take my dad’s notary stamp, and stamp all my drawings and coloring book pages.

    Little did I know I was training to be a loss mitigator for banks.

  112. Mr Hyde says:

    Moose 110

    Remind me how exactly any of this relieves the deadbeat of his obligation to pay his monthly nut?

    It doesnt and i have never argued that it does. What it does show is illegal and fraudulent activity by the individuals and corps involved. What is should do is invalidate every single one of these foreclosures until he banks get their ducks in a row per the black letter law. All of the parties directly involved should also be brought up on charges.

    if you think that the foreclosures are acceptable as is then your legal philosophy is clearly that the ends justify the means.

    If the banks end up eating crow because they were sloppy then to F’ing bad. I am glad you believe so strongly in the rule of law.

  113. Mr Hyde says:

    Juice 111

    I saw that and it should be interesting to see how it pans out. I am a legal dunce but the ruling seems strange to say the least and I would be surprised if it isnt appealed. Even if it stands, the cat is out of the bag and the hounds smell blood. How many attorneys will be digging in tot eh practices of every other foreclosure mill in every other state based on what was found here?

  114. Mr Hyde says:

    Hey as long as we are all clear that it is acceptable for banks to commit fraud amongst a number of other illegal actions that would promptly land a private individual in prison, in order to prove they have standing to foreclose. because really, how else would they ever show standing? Heck the MBS trusts the formed were even formed illegally!

  115. Mr Hyde says:

    a succinct summary

    So the witness saw documents stamped without the notary present to see the signing. The witness saw 3 different people write the same signature. This happens on Sept 22. HR 3808 passes the Senate in a unanimous voice vote on Sept 27 forcing state governments to accept electronic out of state notarizations.

  116. Mr Hyde says:

    Moose,

    Another effect of the mess the banks made was that the Trusts never took delivery of what it claims it did when it sold those MBS to investors then the investors are holding an empty box. And this is OK? If so i have some AAA securities you might be interested in.

  117. Poltroon says:

    If banks do it, it must be OK.

  118. JJ says:

    I firmly believe the Jets and Giants completely mispriced their PSLs. For example lets take a lower level sideline PSL priced at 10K with a 150 ticket between the 10 and 30 yard line. That section has I think 34 rows and each row has 30 seats. There is a total of 1,020 seats in section all priced the same. Jets had great trouble selling last 30% of seats.

    Problem is they priced all 1,020 seats the same. Row one, two and three are scalpers delight, (90 seats), within four of the aisle on 30 yard line are also great seats, (120 seats). These seats were snapped up for 10K. Even with PSL they go for a 100% mark up on subhub.

    Meanwhile rows 20-34 ten seats closest to ten yard line are dogs. High up and close to ten yard line. The seats sell at a loss on stub hub, yet Jets expect people to pay 10K for a ticket which conveys the right to overpay for seats for the next 30 years.

    Jets should have jacked row one and seats on the aisle by 30 yard lines PSLs to like 13K and knocked 3k off junky seats. They did not do that. This is akin to trying to sell the last junkier car on lot with no AC and stick shift at end of model year for full price. Stupid Jets said if they lower a PSL price for any seat in a section they must lower them all even mr. row one 30 yard line.Good luck moving last 10% of seats that are the most overpriced in stadium with the worst views.

    Friend works for NFL and I asked him about PSLs he said buy them the moment they come out and get best seat in section as they are priced all the same or wait till secondary market where 90% of seats will be going cheap since 90% of seats are overpriced

    I admit PSLs are a huge rip off and Jets/Giants did this at worse time possible giving recession so it was doomed from start. But add in stupid pricing and it is a case study in stupidity for generations to come.

    Juice Box says:
    October 7, 2010 at 11:31 am

    JJ – Bull market in Jets tickets? How about the unsold PSLs? Woody Johnson has to write a seven figure check for each of the eight home games to avoid an NFL Blackout. Buying up every game and giving away to charity is a bull market?

  119. Anon E. Moose says:

    hyde [116];

    Remind me how exactly any of this relieves the deadbeat of his obligation to pay his monthly nut?

    It doesnt and i have never argued that it does.

    Great. I’m glad we can agree on that.

    What is should do is invalidate every single one of these foreclosures until he banks get their ducks in a row per the black letter law.

    So you want the deadbeats to keep the house they didn’t pay for. That’s where we part company. What should the giveaway be for the suckers who bought in ’05 but are paying their mortgage? Or for the people who had enough brain cells knocking into each other to say “NFW” to the $750k POS cape? Or do you only want to reward the dumbest among us?

    If the banks end up eating crow because they were sloppy then to F’ing bad. I am glad you believe so strongly in the rule of law.

    I’m all for letting the banks twist. Fine the sh!t out of them so they take nothing from the foreclosure if you want — but don’t reward the stupidest of the deadbeats with a free house.

    In my view the ‘rule of law’ is bigger than notary stamps on inconsequential transfer documents.

  120. JJ says:

    Back when you were still learning to pee pee in the potty I did a vault review at Brown Brothers Harriman, back rows had tons of Confederate money siting in custody. When I asked about it was told plenty of rich southern clients whose grandpappy left them the money in the will with instructions to hold on to it as when the south rises again they will be worth a lot of money.

    Also had stacks of CBS Broadcasting Cuba bonds. Seems Fidel stole lots of buildings from US companies that issued bonds backed by buildings as collateral. Bonds only pay off if Cuba is no longer Communist and CBS can get its building back to sell to pay bondholders.

    Lamar, aka Poltroon says:
    October 7, 2010 at 11:50 am

    jj (58)-

    I have a chest full of Confederate money. Pretty soon, it will be at par with the USD. Your statement is akin to saying that you have a year’s worth of asswipe stockpiled in your basement.

    “Cash is piling up and the roaring 2011 bull market is around the corner.”

  121. Anon E. Moose says:

    Hyde [120];

    If the trusts paid for them, then they can be found to hold equitable title, even if their legal title is deficient. Follow the money and correct the paperwork when it comes to light.

  122. Poltroon says:

    Moose, do your paymasters take the gag ball out of your mouth on weekends?

    And, God forbid one or two of these banksters do some jail time. After all, jail is for the little people, too. Perhaps these banks will pay their fines from the stash of FREE MONEY that the gubmint already gave them.

    “I’m all for letting the banks twist. Fine the sh!t out of them…”

  123. Anon E. Moose says:

    Re: [125];

    I think the lesson to be learned from those holding Confederate script and Cuban broadcasting bonds is that a fast nickel is better than a slow dime.

    Would that the banks’ REO departments learned that lesson.

  124. Poltroon says:

    moose (126)-

    A buyer under contract on a purchase also holds equitable title to that home. However, you don’t see people in that position foreclosing to assert their interest.

    Then again, individual buyers are the little people. Banks can do whatever they want.

  125. Poltroon says:

    moose (124)-

    So far the courts are with you. “The Public Interest” and “Feelings” even trump rule of law.

    “In my view the ‘rule of law’ is bigger than notary stamps on inconsequential transfer documents.”

  126. Anon E. Moose says:

    Pol [127];

    Fluff you [94] with a ball gag in my mouth? I wouldn’t brag about being that small if I were you, but you have personal knowledge I don’t.

  127. Libtard says:

    I agree with Moose on this one. Let the banks take their legal lumps, but stop letting squatters stay in homes which they have no right to squat in. More importantly, shut the banks down and restore mark to market. Enforce the rules for a change so the rest of us who actually follow them stop getting the red hot poker up the backside for doing nothing wrong.

    I swear, if anything is going to cause a revolution of sorts in this country, it’s the moral hazard we see as common policy in every facet of governance. California is allowed, through financial alchemy, balance their budget. Banks, need not value their books anywhere near reality. Wall Street gets loans for being over leveraged. AIG, you get bailed too. Fannie/Freddie don’t worry, we’ll take care of you too. Stu, Shore, Moose and others…we’re closing your credit cards, increasing your taxes and raising your insurance rates to pay for all of the immoral acts of everyone else. Please bend over so we don’t have to kick in your knees.

    Is anyone else concerned about the value of the dollar? I’m trying to book a vacation in Mexico over Christmas and you can really see the impact of the snotback.

  128. Mr Hyde says:

    Moose 126

    you seem to enjoy running in circles.

    So you want the deadbeats to keep the house they didn’t pay for. That’s where we part company. What should the giveaway be for the suckers who bought in ’05 but are paying their mortgage?

    1st, This is not about deadbeat home owners, its is about illegal actions taken by banks and their associates.there are a number of documented cases of banks foreclosing on homes they have no title to and never did int he first place, documented cases of banks foreclosing on homes that are owned free and clear by the homeowner, documented cases of multiple banks foreclosing on the same property. if you are so outraged with someone riding out the foreclosure process, then To F’ing bad. You , me and everyone other american made our bed and must now sleep in it.

    Secondly get it through your skull that there are no free houses to be had here. if the banks dont have standing then the trust that hold the now naked note has standing to sue the home owner. By the way guess who holds about 80% of these hollow MBSs? That would be GSE’s and the FED. You, me and every other tax payer were forced to pay for fraudulent hollow securites.

    As has been previously pointed out Life isnt fair. When you boil it down you are advocating lawless behavior by the banks and corporations simply because it makes you feel better. At this point you and anyone else advocating such a lawless stance are as much a part of the problem as greenspan was for allowing this bubble to ignite int he first place. Until the rule of law is demanded by the nation as a whole we will see nothing but 3rd world banana republic politics.

    I am done debating this with you as it is clear your only concern is revenge because your angry that some schmuck took a NINJA loan to outbid you on your dream house. Life’s a b1tch then you die! Without the rule of law we as a nation are no different then any other nation we regularly mock from Zimbabwe to Mexico

  129. Mr Hyde says:

    Libtard

    shut the banks down and restore mark to market. Enforce the rules for a change so the rest of us who actually follow them stop getting the red hot poker up the backside for doing nothing wrong.

    I agree 100%. My question is how do you justify the current foreclosure procedures being used. The practices exposed so far are rife with forgery and fraud! I agree kick out the deadbeats, but do so by demanding that the banks follow existing law. How would you justify allowing the current procedures of fraud and forgery to continue?

  130. reinvestor101 says:

    I agree with Moose too. Everyone is picking on the poor banks and threatening them and that’s why they don’t want to lend any damn money. They need legislative protection. They can’t help it that some damn lowlife shoehorned himself into a damn house he can’t afford. The banks are in this damn situation because of the stinking real estate terrorists who’ve sought to upend these damn markets.

    Speaking of banks, some stupid jerk tried to convince me step back 50 years technologically and open an account at a stinking credit union to get back at the damn banks. I told that jerk to screw off. It’s this sort of subversion that the damn banks are facing. They should have outlawed the stinking credit unions years ago.

  131. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “I think the lesson to be learned from those holding Confederate script and Cuban broadcasting bonds is that a fast nickel is better than a slow dime.”

    [128],

    That was LTCM’s motto.

  132. Juice Box says:

    What is more interesting about this robo-signer assignments and missing Note issue is the fact that even the GSEs do not have the paper they were supposed to have been conveyed, and when they try to negotiate “putbacks” the originators are either playing dumb or refusing to provide it to them.

    Fitch estimates that the large banks could see as much as $180 billion in loan repurchase requests from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

  133. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “Is anyone else concerned about the value of the dollar?”

    Lib [132],

    I’ve been crying wolf for the past 5 years.

  134. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “They can’t help it that some damn lowlife shoehorned himself into a damn house he can’t afford.”

    50.5,

    How’s your mirror looking these days?

  135. Juice Box says:

    As far the the spat between Moose and Poltroon. The NOTE still belongs to somebody, it may not be the the GSEs, the MBS or the REMIC or the Bank, or MERs so ONLY the loan originator or last-validly-endorsed intermediary should be foreclosing.

    Whomever that is can foreclose and keep the change……as far as the bitter underwater owners, they can start over that is what bankruptcy is for.

    I hope this all gets sorted out soon, since I would like to have tomorrow’s price today.

  136. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Relo [139],

    Hey why not? The fed is creating so much paper that some will find its way to his hedge fund. In addition to this, he’s in the boys club, he can also front run the fed.

  137. JJ says:

    robo signers ha ha ha, this is america, you should be smart enough to buy a house you can afford, back in the day I had banks wanting to give me a mortgage up to 10x income. If I was stupid enough to leverage myself that much I deserve to end up in the street.

    Heck buy a freeging $75,000 Caddie Escaladie on a clerks salary can pay GM takes it back, there is no loan modification or period where you drive care for a year or two while the bank moves slow. GM has onstar baby they just use the tracking to find the car and also use onstar to disable it. Should put onstar on houses, lock your butt out if you don’t pay

  138. reinvestor101 says:

    “How’s your mirror looking these days?”

    I look in the damn mirror and see an563 investor who’s been jerked by a bunch of renting malcontents who did everything they could to hurt folks like me.

  139. Mr Hyde says:

    Juice 141

    so ONLY the loan originator or last-validly-endorsed intermediary should be foreclosing.

    Will never happen. That would still detonate the banks.

  140. Unexpected HEHEHE says:

    Obama issues pocket veto of foreclosure docs bill
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101007/ap_on_bi_ge/us_obama_foreclosures

  141. yo'me says:

    President Barack Obama won’t sign legislation that critics said would have eased the way for banks to process home foreclosures, his spokesman said.

    The bill would have required courts to recognize notarizations across state lines, including electronic signatures. White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said the administration was concerned about the potential impact on home foreclosure proceedings.

    “Out of an abundance of caution, and to ensure that those unintended consequences don’t harm consumers, the president will send the bill back,” Gibbs said.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-07/obama-will-veto-notary-recognition-bill-on-possible-abuse-in-foreclosures.html

  142. reinvestor101 says:

    ” Essex says:
    October 7, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    144. A good listen….

    http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/415/crybabies

    I think you must have meant this for someone else. Now take the damn thing back and give it to them.

  143. reinvestor101 says:

    “Out of an abundance of caution, and to ensure that those unintended consequences don’t harm consumers, the president will send the bill back,” Gibbs said.

    Anything that damn socialist is against, I’m for and whatever the hell he’s for, I’m against. That keeps my life real damn simple and unconfused.

  144. Essex says:

    Why? It’s interesting. You might find it enlightening. I did. Tune in.

  145. sas3 says:

    Does everyone here support O’s veto of the foreclosure bill? Congresscritters quietly tried to pass it through. Now, all the media will gloss over — bringing attention to the matter will open a can of worms.

  146. Essex says:

    150. That’s actually not that uncommon a perspective these days and one reason the nation has been circling the drain for decades. Too many people don’t want to actually think for themselves. Hurts their heads.

  147. Anon E. Moose says:

    Hyde [133];

    You’re not Pol, and I really don’t mean to be contentious about this. Also I never thought we were all that far apart on this.

    This is not about deadbeat home owners

    I seriously doubt that any entity is systematically filing foreclosure cases against large numbers of people who are making their regularly scheduled monthly payments. Please don’t cite the one guy in Florida who bought the house for cash who was sued for foreclosure by the bank previously holding the note. It was one guy, and clerical errors happen in the best of human systems.

    The whole foreclosure process gets rolling because somebody can’t/won’t pay as agreed. If the home-loaner is making their monthly nut, I have no cause to get exercised about how the banks split it up amongst themselves on the back end.

    Secondly get it through your skull that there are no free houses to be had here.

    You’re proposing to bar anyone from foreclosing on the note because the transfers may have irregularites somewhere along the line. Even the idiots in their 2005 houses are wise that if there’s no way to foreclose, there’s no reason to pay. Sounds like they got a free house to me.

    Without the rule of law we as a nation are no different then any other nation we regularly mock from Zimbabwe to Mexico

    The ‘rule of law’ is society imposing penalties and consequences for behaviors it wants to reduce, and rewarding behaviors it wants to increase. A payment-free house is a big reward. It is being given to those who underestimated their capacity to pay, stopped paying, and stuck their thumb in the eye of their counterparty (“Produce the Note”). Those who negotiated a quick and quiet vacancy of the premises (“cash for keys”), arranged for short sales (however poorly executed on the banks’ side), got no such benefits. So as a society, do we want to reward the deadbeats who left clawmarks on the threshold, or those who acted honorably under adverse circumstances?

  148. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “Too many people don’t want to actually think for themselves. Hurts their heads.”

    Essex,

    I’ve been thinking too damn much. Now I’m banging my head against the wall. It hurts like hell.

  149. sas3 says:

    #155, try the medication recommended in yesterday’s episode of South Park :)

  150. Anon E. Moose says:

    Juice [144];

    I agree. So long as the deadbeat is shielded from subsequent suits on the same note by other claimants, he really has no grounds to object.

  151. 250k says:

    NY Times
    Christie Kills Hudson Train Tunnel Between New Jersey and New York

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/nyregion/08tunnel.html?src=me

    So what does this mean for the property values along the Raritan Valley Line? Will those who paid premium prices in Cranford, Westfield, Scotch Plains/Fanwood, Bridgewater, Whitehouse, etc. get a refund from sellers?

    What I don’t understand is how Christie has learned nothing from the events of the past few years. Those who spend money they don’t have will be bailed out by the federal government. Buy your fancy tunnel now, and if you can’t pay later, Uncle Sam will print some new green to help settle the bill. This works for individuals, why would Christie have any doubt it won’t also work for states?

  152. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “So as a society, do we want to reward the deadbeats who left clawmarks on the threshold”

    Moose,

    Precedence has been set. We have bailed out the geniuses who blew up the world and rewarded them, for their actions, by giving them the keys to the vault. In one fell swoop, the kings of WS have been stripped to their true status, welfare queens.

    By the way, I am not supporting the actions of the deadbeat dwellers. They, along with the corrupt financial institutions, should be blown to smithereens.

  153. Unexpected HEHEHE says:

    I still don’t get how that bill was going to make a difference. At the end of the day I thought the plaintiffs were attacking the veracity of the person swearing to the holding of the documents and not the notary public; what would that law have done to change that?

  154. schabadoo says:

    Someone was looking for some Open House comedy

    The pics are great. All the charm of a neighborhood bar in Ringwood. The washer/dryer in the kitchen is a nice touch.

  155. Essex says:

    156. A PhD who watches South Park…I wanna party with you buddy.

  156. Anon E. Moose says:

    While I was mentiong the lack of debtor’s prisons, I noticed this:

    http://reason.com/archives/2010/10/07/the-return-of-debtors-prison

  157. scribe says:

    Just heard a news blurb on Bloomberg Radio. Christie cancelled the tunnel into Manhattan.

    Channel 7 news just announced a story on it – coming up at 6.

  158. Libtard says:

    Remember how I was b1tching about the surprise 30% increase to my homeowners policy? That is without ever making a single claim. Well I just did my annual shop-around and saved $520. Not bad! Geico again. Now they cover my car and my home and took a few books off of the car policy. Plus, my coverage is improved on the home. Captain Cheapo is still amazed by how there is absolutely no discount for loyalty with insurance companies. You really have to change companies every year (if you keep your record clean).

  159. Libtard says:

    Old news. Came out around noon.

    I have no issue with the cancel, but he is going to use the money for the transportation fund (read roads) which he can’t figure out how to fund otherwise. It’s just crazy that they can add another larger shipping lane to the Panama Canal for less then it would cost to build a rail tunnel under the Hudson.

  160. grim says:

    It’s just crazy that they can add another larger shipping lane to the Panama Canal for less then it would cost to build a rail tunnel under the Hudson.

    Isn’t it amazing?

    I’m wondering if we could ever rebuild the GWB or the Lincoln Tunnel at this point.

    Between OSHA, Unions, the Mob, the local government (the Mob), I don’t think we could do it again.

    Hoover Dam? Never a chance again, we’ve lost it.

    We can trade a billion shares a second, but we can’t build a god damn tunnel anymore.

  161. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [167];

    Best illustration of current ability is the “Big Dig” in Boston.

  162. chicagofinance says:

    NJM crushes everyone case closed…..

    165.Libtard says:
    October 7, 2010 at 5:59 pm
    Remember how I was b1tching about the surprise 30% increase to my homeowners policy? That is without ever making a single claim. Well I just did my annual shop-around and saved $520. Not bad! Geico again. Now they cover my car and my home and took a few books off of the car policy. Plus, my coverage is improved on the home. Captain Cheapo is still amazed by how there is absolutely no discount for loyalty with insurance companies. You really have to change companies every year (if you keep your record clean).

  163. lib (132)-

    Funny thing about moral hazard: once you set it loose, it can’t be contained.

    I also have a feeling the only way it can be ended is with massive bloodshed, but hey…that’s just me.

  164. he (146)-

    Just kicked back to Congress until after the election. Watch him stealthily sign an “improved” version after the public furor dies down.

  165. Confused In NJ says:

    WASHINGTON – A government investigator says 89,000 stimulus payments of $250 each went to people who were either dead or in prison.

    The Social Security Administration’s inspector general said in a report Thursday that $18 million went to 72,000 people who were dead. The report estimates that a little more than half the payments were returned.

    The report said $4.3 million went to a little more than 17,000 prison inmates.

    The payments were part of the government’s massive economic recovery package enacted in February 2009. Under the law, the $250 payments were sent to about 52 million Social Security recipients and federal retirees.

  166. moose (154)-

    Collectively, the banks are bigger deadbeats than the defaulting borrowers. You still haven’t addressed that.

  167. Fast Eddie says:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101007/ts_alt_afp/usinfrastructuretransport

    NEW YORK (AFP) – The governor of cash-strapped New Jersey on Thursday terminated work on a multi-billion dollar train tunnel linking New Jersey and Manhattan, one of the country’s largest infrastructure projects.

    Good! F*ck em! There’s no more blow left, the eight ball is gone, so stop begging for more! The intervention in this State was a loooong time coming!! Hey, Maybe Oblama’s cronies who got all that payback porkulus money will help out their union brothers here in NJ. NOT!

  168. Can we shut down Morgan Stanley and Vornado for defaulting on mortgages that they can perfectly well pay?

  169. BTW, I got a letter a few weeks ago from my mortgage servicer. They mentioned my loan had been sold to Wells Fargo.

    Just for giggles today, I called the servicer and asked them for a copy of my mortgage note and any affadavits and supporting documents regarding their assignment.

    Guy on the other end got real quiet. I told him I wasn’t joking and that I will continue to badger him until I have all the documents.

    PRODUCE THE NOTE, MF’ER!

  170. speedkillsu says:

    Anybody here make this lowball bid that got hit? ..Leona Helmsley’s 40-acre estate in Greenwich, Conn., was sold for $35 million, marked down substantially from its initial $125 million price tag but still among the most expensive homes ever sold in this affluent New York suburb….http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/big-discount-on-helmsley-sale.html

  171. Essex says:

    174. That’s what, 6000 more people to go on unemployment. No matter. Carry on.

  172. Caveman says:

    167 – Grim

    Im an engineer by trade and often deal with clients, contractors, and inspectors on a semi daily basis. I believe we could definetly build something that big, it would just cost triple what it normally would and take twice as long. The highlights of my short career:

    – being yelled at by the client for holding the door for a contractor moving something into a building. For “legal reasons” the client or their sub-contractors (me) cannot assist in “construction” efforts.

    – Being yelled at by the contractor’s union rep for assisting the contractor by holding the door. (Insert BS reason here). Real reason was because I was speeding up the contractor and the union makes money by the hour.

    – Different story, but we submitted a set of drawings to a client, and recieved notice that the package was “un-constructable” as is. We thought we missed something vital, something that would kill somebody if they tried building it. The real reason? The font size was off by .05″. This caused a 2 week delay.

    It can be built, but there better be a big coin bag and flexible dates backing it.

  173. Essex says:

    179. So people like to yell at you….is that what you are saying?

  174. Al Gore says:

    176,
    Poltroon,

    My mortgage was sold to Wells Fargo too. I guess Ill have to badger them as well. When I refinance at 3.75 ill be hiring an attorney to make sure they can produce the note. I dont want to be the guy that pays off a mortgage only to be the sucker without a note.

  175. Any tunnel that NJ would try to dig under the Hudson would end up like the Taggart Tunnel in Atlas Shrugged.

  176. cave (179)-

    Things will be better for you after we purge this country of lowlife scum.

    This thing is only headed to one, inevitable conclusion.

  177. borat obama says:

    First

  178. God, I love Mike Krieger:

    “The U.S. Federal Reserve, which is in charge of the world’s reserve currency has gone completely and totally insane. Every time the stock market is down 2 points some maniac academic with a printing press delivers a speech about how much money they are going to print, basically daring anyone to short or sell the market. No one is smart enough to know how much QE is priced into the market, is it $500B? $1 trillion? $3 trillion? No one knows, but what we all do know is that the Fed through its non-stop yapping has now set up the ultimate moral hazard in financial markets. It doesn’t matter if all of the economic data miraculously comes in extraordinarily bullish over the next three weeks. The markets have put the Fed into the biggest box they have ever been in. They must do QE2 at this point and they probably have to do it big. The problem is, with the equity market up at the levels it is I don’t think ANY amount of QE2 will cause a rally. In fact, this might be the biggest “sell the news” event in the history of the stock market. If you are smart you will take appropriate actions while you can and sell to someone with less of a clue (believe me there are plenty out there).”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-biggest-sell-news-event-stock-market-history

  179. Mr Hyde says:

    Moose

    you are right we agree mire then we disagree. You seem to be basing your stance, the point where we differ on revenge. The revenge you seem ro desire causes more damage then not if seen through. Most people who end up living for a year plus in a house without paying a mortgage are not living a happy life. I have seen it first hand. There is enormous marital stress/relationship stress and no real plan. Very few of those in such a situation are “getting away” with anything. They are generally too busy buying ipads and designer clothes to think about actually saving.

    In the end I know what I want is a pipe dream and that all sides willnot be treated equally under the law. The banks will win as always, eh comrade!

    This sort of blatant behavior by banks really burbs my biscuits and while I would never advocate violence I won’t shed a tear when people start to physically lash out against the bankers.

  180. Tell it, Mike!!!!

    “Wall Street has now been transformed from merely a chronic user of painkillers to a full-fledged crack head. When QE2 is ultimately announced it cannot possibly be good enough no matter how large it is. Wall Street will then whine to its pusher with a sell-off in an attempt to access more crack. The process that the Fed has started can never end. It is exactly what Rudolf Havenstein, president of the Reichsbank in Weimar Germany experienced. Once you go down this path you can never get off. The big difference here is that it has happened to the country with the reserve currency. It is the currency in which the supposed “wealth” of the world is stored. What do you think people will buy when they realize this? Physical gold or a round lot of Home Depot? QE2 will be more like the Titanic.”

  181. reinvestor101 says:

    Essex,

    You’re a confirmed damn liberal and a stinking Obama lover.

    Talk to the damn hand.

  182. Al Gore says:

    “Student Attacked After Shouting ‘You’re a Liar’ at Obama”

    Check out the trash in the crowd as the Kenyan spews BS from his foreign national _ss.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoNlhJAPmaM&feature=player_embedded

  183. Juice Box says:

    So what happened the bids came in last month on main digging for the ARC tunnel that are almost 40% higher than originally estimated?

    Its a shame, we really could use high speed rail.

    http://tunneltalk.com/ARC-Jan10-Hudson-Tunnels.php

  184. Fast Eddie says:

    The tunnel can get completed and finish within budget as well. Terminate the 6000 workers, give the project to private construction firms with no New Jersey ties and then re-hire the 6000 workers as consultants on a per diem basis. You know, sort of like the real world. Problem solved.

  185. Essex says:

    188. I’d like to think of myself as an enlightened independent with some understanding of the morass of the Washington swamp. I have a passing knowledge of history and somehow cannot find too much to get excited about on either side of the proverbial coin these days.

  186. Essex says:

    In this country it is every man (and woman) for themselves folks. The sooner you figure that one out the better off you will be.

  187. A.West says:

    250K, I don’t think anyone was buying houses on the Raritan Valley line with the expectation of that bridge coming. Maybe a few are hoping (I don’t particularly like the Newark switch, but if you’re working downtown, you need to switch to the PATH anyway.) To me, it would be a bigger deal if there were a train every 30 minutes during off peak hours, but that will never happen.

    Regarding South Park, it’s by far the most astute satire on TV, though I didn’t think last night’s episode was special. I’m surprised Sastry watches the show, though. Did he miss the episode “Die Hippie, Die”?

  188. grim says:

    Terminate the 6000 workers, give the project to private construction firms with no New Jersey ties and then re-hire the 6000 workers as consultants on a per diem basis.

    Why can’t we ship in thousands of “offshore” employees to dig the hole for minimum wage and no benefits?

    We’re expert at using that strategy to “optimize” operating performance of our companies, so why not extend it to jobs that can’t be shipped overseas?

  189. joyce says:

    (154)
    “The ‘rule of law’ is society imposing penalties and consequences for behaviors it wants to reduce, and rewarding behaviors it wants to increase.”

    No, the rule of law is suppose to do nothing, nothing except protect and maintain individual rights. It’s not meant to encourage or discourage anything. It’s called Freedom. Free to choose to do anything you want except violate someone rights.

  190. Juice Box says:

    The Channel Tunnel ran 80% over estimates. The companies bidding are a conglomerate of European and US companies.

    Here is a study on cost overruns for these types of projects, seems it is the MO to get the project and jack prices up later.

    http://flyvbjerg.plan.aau.dk/JAPAASPUBLISHED.pdf

    I give Governor Christie credit for what he is doing. Enough is enough the taxpayers
    cannot take anymore.

  191. Essex says:

    I admire Christie for a lot of his ideas and think the fact that this thing was so over budget sends a clear message to contractors. These “private” businesses bilk the government out of millions and often provide sub par service. If we can somehow bring back accountability to these projects then this is a good thing.

  192. reinvestor101 says:

    “I’d like to think of myself as an enlightened independent with some understanding of the morass of the Washington swamp. I have a passing knowledge of history and somehow cannot find too much to get excited about on either side of the proverbial coin these days.”

    Haha. Don’t make me laugh. You know good and damn well you’re in the tank for Obama and the democrats. The only thing worst than a liberal democrat is an independent who wants to play the damn middle. I deal best with black and white and don’t like this grey crap. Choose one damn side or the other.

    Guess what, I’m excited about the mid-terms as we’re going to throw you bums out. In a mere 22 months, Obama has implemented socialism and reversed nearly 300 years of progress. Now with the tea party led revolution, we’re going to take our country back. Happy days again!! It will be morning in America again!!

    Look, you have my permission to go out and be happy again!

  193. Juice Box says:

    re #195 – no longer true lots of project managers, engineers and labor is brought in from all of the world for their expertise for these construction projects.

    Anyone here ever watch the Discovery Channel show Extreme Engineering? Episode of the Kárahnjúkar Hydropower Project had a tunnel built in Iceland for the Aluminum smelting plant? The welders put all of the drill heads/bits in backwards!
    These experts were flown in for the job from all over the world, to do this and they still welded in the drill head assembly wrong!

    Other than farming it out to say 100% Chinese company there is no way to avoid the massive cost overruns inculding Wall St’s vig on the financing.

    Christie is doing the right thing. Enough is enough from the construction MOB and I mean all of them, the Brits, the Swedish, the Spanish,the Americans who are working on the ARC tunnel!

  194. Essex says:

    I really could care less what you or anyone else think about “my beliefs”, my grandmother had a saying that applies to folks like you.

    “…You couldn’t pour pee out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel…”

    Her country wisdom provided a clarity that applies to the majority of the people that I have run into in the six different states that I have lived in. This country is chock full of complete morons. And the chickens are finally coming home to roost. It’s gonna get really ugly folks. But hey, what do I know?

  195. Essex says:

    Early in the morning factory whistle blows
    Man rises from bed and puts on his clothes
    Man takes his lunch, walks out in the morning light
    It’s the working, the working, just the working life

    Through the mansions of fear, through the mansions of pain
    I see my daddy walking through them factory gates in the rain
    Factory takes his hearing, factory gives him life
    The working, the working, just the working life

    End of the day, factory whistle cries
    Men walk through these gates with death in their eyes
    And you just better believe, boy, somebody’s gonna get hurt tonight
    It’s the working, the working, just the working life
    Cause it’s the working, the working, just the working life

    Bruce

  196. cobbler says:

    SL – congratulations on your purchase and good luck!

  197. still_looking says:

    Cobbler, 203

    Thanks!

    I’m deferring the negotiation tactics to grim… He gets to tell that story.

    [Cmon, grimmy — spill.]

    sl

    For those who are interested: I did promise a GTG if we bought. OCT 23rd. is the date.

    But I will need a head count…

  198. still_looking says:

    I’m hoping my Reinvestor is gonna show….. and the elusive JJ and the further elusive SAS.

    Relo — how close are you?

    sl

  199. Mikeinwaiting says:

    SL What town or general area did you buy in?

  200. still_looking says:

    In Bergen…. next to (but not in) Ridgewood…

    You free the 23rd?

    sl

  201. Mikeinwaiting says:

    SL Would love to come, do my best to keep open. A long way off the way things have been going in my world.

  202. Revelations says:

    Agree with both Moose and Hyde.

    How about this:
    Judge to Deadbeat: “Did you make your payments?”
    Deadbeat: “No.”
    Judge to Bank: “Is your paperwork 100% legal?”
    Bank: “No.”
    Judge: “I hereby put the property up for public auction tomorrow, and the proceeds of sale will be distributed to the residents as a property tax refund.”

    Disclaimer – I AM a bitter renter, and I despise both banks AND deadbeats.

  203. Juice Box says:

    SL – Congrats to you and yours as well as that Realtor you have, he should be nominated to run the NAR! I love that part of Bergen County, and have lots of family
    residing there who love it as well.

    New handle perhaps? NL? as in Not Looking!

    Cheers Juice Box AKA Sean

  204. Fabius Maximus says:

    !02 Essex

    I’m an ordinary man, nothin’ special nothin’ grand,
    I’ve had to work for everything I own,
    Well I never asked for a lot, I was happy with what I got,
    Enough to keep my family and my home,
    Now they say that times are hard & they’ve handed me my cards,
    They say there’s not the work to go around,
    When the whistle blows the gates will finally close,
    Tonight they’re going to shut this factory down,
    Then they’ll tear it down.

    I never missed a day nor went on strike for better pay,
    For 20 years I served them best I could,
    With a handshake and a cheque it seems so easy to forget,
    Loyalty through the bad times and the good,
    The owner says he’s sad to see that things have got so bad,
    But the Captains of industry won’t let him loose,
    He still drives a car and smokes a cigar,
    And still he takes his family on a cruise,
    He’ll never lose.

    Now it seems to me to be such a cruel irony,
    He’s richer now ever he was before,
    Now my cheque is all spent and I can’t afford the rent,
    There’s one law for the rich, one for the poor,
    Every day I’ve tried to salvage some of my pride,
    To find some work so’s I might pay my way,
    But everywhere I go, the answer is always no,
    There’s no work for anyone here today,
    No work today.

    And so condemned I stand, just an ordinary man,
    Like thousands beside me in the queue,
    I watch my darlin’ wife tryin’ to make the best of life,
    God knows what the kids are goin’ to do,
    Now that we are faced with this human waste,
    A generation cast aside,
    For as long as I live, I never will forgive,
    You’ve stripped me of my dignity & pride,
    You’ve stripped me bare.

    Christie

    Theres even chords for Shore to strumm
    Chords : Am,G,F,Am,F,G,Am, x 2
    F,G,C,Am,F,E(7),Am,G,F,Am,F,G,Am,F,G,Am

  205. still_looking says:

    Juice, 210

    Thanks! We were really really lucky in so many ways… having grim as an agent just nailed it for us. Any other realtor (except for Clot/Poltroon/Doom) would have been the kiss of death.

    I still believe patience and keen eyesight…. hunt it like you are hunting wild game….and be ruthless. Toward the end of negotiating I could easily have gone off track.

    Grim really was on target. Kept us out of trouble.

    sl

  206. Revelations says:

    “You can soon apply for a no-interest government loan for up to $50,000 to pay your mortgage and cover your arrears. The loan, which can offer assistance for up to two years, will be forgiven if the homeowner stays in the house for five years.”

    http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/05/news/economy/unemployed_mortgage_help/index.htm

    Note the WILL BE FORGIVEN part.

  207. a mad as hell reinvestor101 says:

    >>I’m hoping my Reinvestor is gonna show….. and the elusive JJ and the further elusive SAS.

    Relo — how close are you?

    sl<<

    sl,

    I'll join everyone else is congratulating you and your husband on your recent purchase. I'm gonna surprise all you guys one day and show up at a gtg. Who knows, it might just be the 23rd!

  208. Fabius Maximus says:

    Still,

    Congratulations and welcome to the sweet taste of Bergen Co REO. There is nothing better. I had picked you as the mystery buyer and when the property hit the hot sheets I have to admit I ran the numbers.

    On a side note, I am the other side of Ridgewood, but my son’s school is your side of 17 so I pass close by fairly often. If you need something to do with a 5 year old this weekend while your floors are getting done, Westwood Fire department are sponsoring a circus in the Kmart Car park. While it will be lamer than Ringling Bros, at $8 a ticket, will be a lot cheaper.

    May your repairs not be too onerous and may you have many happy years.

  209. dan says:

    Two sports tickets stories today. First, Jets PSL guy called me again offering me 5 and 6 game packages for rest of year but friends are taking me to some games so I’ll pass on that. As for the Yankees, tickets prices are astronomical for Saturday’s division game on Stubhub. For god sake’s it the Twins aka the Washington Generals for a division series!!!!!!!!! Got my tickets for much less on EBAY. Gotta remember JJ’s site from last year, razrgator?

  210. Fabius Maximus says:

    #195 grim

    And that’s where Atlas Shrugged falls on its face.

  211. still_looking says:

    Fab, 215

    Something to be said for having a shark for a real estate agent, huh?

    Circus sounds great! – they finished the floor late this afternoon and I figure the smell should be tolerable by Sunday. I’m in the Pit Friday night – –

    If you forward email to grim, I can send details.

    Maybe the other tot-toting blog members might be interested in a circus event?

    sl

  212. still_looking says:

    Be still my beating heart! My reinvestor! in person! I will have to break out the Margarita maker for this event!!

    Grim can forward our new address – as I am sure you wish to remain anonymous.

    sl

  213. sl, can’t make it that weekend. Soccer non-stop until December.

    I also have a grenade launcher that needs attention. :)

  214. Essex says:

    S_L congrats on the new place. One caveat, I am afraid that in your giddy joy you may have thrown caution to the wind. Inviting children ‘and’ someone you have never met who compiled an online “hit list” which placed you on it. Seems to be somewhat less than intelligent. Note: the internet is not completely safe. Re investor might be a troll, or a neato character…or simply a person who easily resorts to ad hominem attacks on anyone he/she fails to understand. Either way, opening your new home up to someone like that seems a little risky. My two cents.

  215. Essex says:

    P.S. I like how this thread illustrates the value of a good realtor. Grim et al.

  216. borat obama says:

    Last

  217. borat obama says:

    SL i am on call ,can’t make it that weekend

    Drinkk for mee

    Hii. Four

  218. borat obama says:

    Congratulations

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