Property Tax Triptych

From the Daily Record:

When home prices fall, why don’t taxes?

A sharp and continued decline in the value of taxable property in Morris County has sent municipal official scrambling to push back the growing number of tax appeals that have chewed holes in their budgets.

Seventeen Morris County towns have conducted property reassessments or revaluations in the past two years or plan to in 2011 to narrow the gap in assessed values and sale prices. In the last year, 66 of 566 towns in New Jersey have conducted property revaluations, reassessments or re-equalization to balance the tax rolls.

At $1.3 billion, the countywide loss of property values this year was nearly as large as the total of all the taxable property in Morris County in 1961 — $1.6 billion.

From the Daily Journal:

N.J. Tax Crush: Rising property taxes hit seniors hard

Ask Richard F. Potts about property taxes and he will tell you that the Jersey Shore is becoming unaffordable for the middle class.

Potts, 74, lives in Glen Cove, a blue-collar bastion of lagoon and bayfront homes in this Ocean County community that was hit especially hard by the township’s revaluation this year.

“I’ve been toying with the idea of moving out of this state,” said Potts, who saw his taxes rise $1,978 in one year, to $4,457. “It just doesn’t pay to stay here anymore.”

It is a common angst felt across New Jersey each year by thousands of homeowners as their towns update the tax rolls.

Potts’ neighbor Jerry Bollettieri, a part-time engineer and veteran of the Marines and Navy, said he and his wife, Cathy, can afford to pay the tax increase for now. But he’s concerned about the many seniors in Glen Cove who have no income besides their Social Security payments.

“They are forcing us out,” said Bollettieri, 73, whose property taxes jumped from $5,524 to $8,319 because of the town’s first revaluation in two decades.

From the Daily Record:

Poll: Property taxes greatest cause of financial woes for NJ residents

Property tax bills that pump $25 billion into the coffers of school districts and local government create an economic hardship for two of every three New Jersey residents, a recent poll found.

The only household expense pegged as harder to pay than property taxes (66 percent) was saving for retirement (70 percent), according to the Monmouth University/Gannett New Jersey Press Media poll.

“Saving for retirement is probably considered discretionary when trying to meet your household budget, so it’s not surprising that most New Jerseyans say this is difficult to keep up with,” said Patrick Murray, director of the Monmouth University Polling Institute, West Long Branch. “Among the bills which must be paid every month, though, nothing comes close to property taxes for inflicting financial hardship.”

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208 Responses to Property Tax Triptych

  1. grim says:

    From the APP:

    Property tax burden may force many to leave N.J.

    For a growing number of families, getting by is getting tougher.

    New Jersey’s property tax burden is forcing many to think about getting out by either moving to a smaller house or leaving the state.

    In Jackson, soaring property taxes on their home have put Steven and Dawn Monko in a financial bind.

    “This is our retirement fund,” said Monko, 47, a former Asbury Park police officer who left the force in April 2000 and receives a $44,400 annual disability pension. He and his wife planned to live in the home for at least 10 more years and then sell it, using the proceeds for retirement.

    “We have always played by the rules,” Monko said. He said the couple want to stay in their home, but an annual property tax bill of $10,910, coupled with an economic downturn that has hurt their lawn cutting business, has put their financial life in dire straits. A revaluation two years ago boosted their taxes by 32 percent overnight. “But I don’t know if we can stay here. We’re thinking of looking out of state.”

    The Monkos’ plight is familiar to many New Jersey residents who have been struggling for years with rising property taxes. New Jersey property owners pay the highest property taxes in the nation: an average of $7,544 in 2010, up 71 percent since 2000 and twice the inflation rate.

    This in a state where unemployment is 9.2 percent and the median household income dropped $2,000 from 2008 to 2009 to $68,342.

  2. grim says:

    From Marketwatch:

    The 10 worst states for retirees

    Plenty of folks are aware of the best states for retirees. But what are the 10 worst states in which to spend your golden years?

    People of Illinois, California, New York, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Ohio, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, Connecticut and Nevada — you probably already know the answer.

  3. grim says:

    From the Star Ledger:

    Moody’s downgrades Newark’s credit rating as city faces $30.5M deficit

    Newark, the biggest city in New Jersey, had its credit rating cut to A3, the fourth-lowest investment grade, by Moody’s Investors Service for its inability to balance the annual budget. The one-step downgrade came with a negative outlook.

    Newark may face a deficit of $30.5 million for 2011, Moody’s said today in a report. Mayor Cory Booker raised property taxes 16 percent, fired police and plans to sell some city facilities to balance its $605 million budget this year.

  4. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Plunging Home Prices Fuel Property Tax Appeals Swamping U.S. Cities, Towns

    From Los Angeles to Atlantic City, the New Jersey gambling resort whose credit rating Moody’s Investors Service cut by three levels last month, property owners are demanding lower taxes after real-estate values plunged. The disputes over billions in dollars come as municipalities are already slashing services such as police and fire protection and may depress revenue further as communities try to recover from the longest recession since the 1930s. In Michigan, Governor-elect Rick Snyder has warned that hundreds of towns face financial crises.

    “We’re just getting swamped,” said Halm, 54, who was appointed in 2003. “We’re constantly buying new file cabinets to hold all the cases. We even have six surplus file cabinets in the courtroom.”

    U.S. home prices are 30 percent below their peak of April 2006, according to the seasonally adjusted S&P/Case-Shiller index of property values in 20 cities. They may drop 10 percent more, Greg Lippmann, a founder of New York-based LibreMax Capital LLC, said Dec. 2 at the Hedge Funds New York Conference hosted by Bloomberg Link.

  5. Comrade Nom Deplume in DC says:

    Yesterday, we heard from the Commissioner of the IRS. And while I did pose a question to him, it wasn’t the one I am sure many of you thought I would ask. That would have been hugely impolitic.

    Good thing I didn’t channel Lamar during questioning. Secret Service would have taken me out.

  6. Comrade Nom Deplume in DC says:

    [101] {prior thread] JJ

    {to the tune of Winter Wonderland}

    Doorbells ring,
    It’s the season,
    and you know,
    what’s the reason.

    There’s someone out there
    Who’s after his share
    Sticking out his greedy little hand

    First to come is the doorman
    He’ll complain he’s a poor man
    The janitor’s next
    With some lame pretext
    Sticking out their greedy little hands

    Next will come the superintendent’s visit
    He will ring your doorbell loud and long,
    When you open up and ask what is it
    He just stands and sings his Christmas song.

    Later on, you’ll get the cash up
    For the men who pick the trash up
    It’s nice they’re all here
    Just one day each year
    Sticking out their greedy little hands.

  7. Mike says:

    Comrade Number 6 great I’ll be humming this all day now

  8. Mike says:

    property taxes are not going to drop so prices of the homes need to adjust downward, end of discussion and caffeine

  9. Don’t worry, plume. Pretty soon, we’ll be in all-out tax revolt all over the US and municipal default will be commonplace.

    Some way or another, the reset button is gonna get pushed…even if it’s a default via a massive debasement of the currency. However, I don’t even think a currency devaluation will go far enough to reduce the debt.

  10. mike (9)-

    The tax bills won’t decrease. The tax collections will.

  11. Essex says:

    I see a continued decline in revenue. I see the state continue to leak jobs. Those who can be outsourced will be. End of story. Welcome to the new normal.

  12. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Last one leaving NJ please turn out the lights.

  13. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Essex from other day Mike is Mike I am inwaiting. Been around for years with no name change, others are a little hard to keep track of I agree. I am however toying with MikenotbuyingNJ. I am not going to work for another 20 years so some guy can retire at 50 with full medical on my back. F them or better yet I am not going to let them F me.

  14. Essex says:

    gotcha mike. hang in their buddy.

  15. Essex says:

    It is a real joy to own property in New Jersey. Just keep repeating that to yourself as you click the heels of your ruby slippers.

  16. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Clot on the ski slopes over looking the golf course now. Come on up! We can watch the inbred play banjo & drink moonshine.

  17. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Essex even here in the hinterland taxes are out of control. But the pride of ownership makes it all better. NOT.

  18. Mike says:

    Thanks for clarifying Mikeinwaiting. MikenotbuyinginNJ sounds good too.

  19. ny-to-pa says:

    Barbara Corcoran just used this phrase about the housing market on the Today show:

    “it won’t recover unless banks sit down with the homeowners and give them the breaks they deserve.”

  20. Fast Eddie says:

    Property tax bills that pump $25 billion into the coffers of school districts and local government create an economic hardship for two of every three New Jersey residents, a recent poll found.

    I wonder when the riots begin due to decreasing tax revenue?

    Off to my temp job now… need to keep funding the entitlement programs.

  21. Essex says:

    Government doesn’t care about your hardship. They never have. There are businesses designed and owned by ex-gubmint chiefs designed to exploit your hardship.

  22. Neanderthal Economist says:

    High prop taxes are not cause of nj problems. They are an effect. Wake me up when they start merging some of the holes with their donuts and replacing some of the$ 300k superintendents.

  23. borat obama says:

    First

  24. borat obama says:

    Good mornink nyc

  25. borat obama says:

    Hi. Fiveeee

  26. Neanderthal Economist says:

    Mikewaiting. Haven’t prices crashed 50% in your county? Now i know what grim and clot mean when they say some people will never buy at any price.
    Renting is cool too.

  27. Nomad says:

    Lamar #10

    So tell me how to short a muni index / fund.

    W debasement as a way to reduce debt, isn’t it all relative? #s might be smaller but ratios don’t change – what am I missing?

  28. safe as houses says:

    #1

    Fcuk that guy whining about his 10k in taxes. He went out on disability at the age of 40 and we are stuck paying for his health benefits and his disability pension for the rest of his life. He’s one of the reasons our prop taxes are so high in NJ.

    He also lives in Jackson. According to the tax records and zillow he’s living on 17 acres, and his wife owns another property.

    And if he is so disabled he can’t be a cop, yet he can take mowers and other power tools on and off a trailer all day. Cry me a river.

  29. Neanderthal Economist says:

    Mike. It should be made clear that mikeinwaiting was here first.
    Other than that im not getting involved.

  30. Shore Guy says:

    Jus a minute. He was a blue-collar worker, he lives on a waterfront lot with easy access to the Barnegat Bay, and a straight shot outside via the Barnegat Inlet and he is kvetching about $4,000 taxes. Cry me a frickin’ river.

  31. Shore Guy says:

    I used to ride my bike down there alot also. We would head over to Berkeley Island park and look at all the boats on the bay that we could not afford.

  32. Neanderthal Economist says:

    Nomad. Not a good idea to start day trading muni bond funds. Especially when based on a few headlines and clots daily doom announcement.

  33. Shore Guy says:

    “give them the breaks they deserve.”

    Huh!? Kneecaps? Fingers? What should the banks break?

  34. mikey (17)-

    Assuming those slopes afford one the chance to get off some Lee Harvey-quality shots.

  35. ny2pa (20)-

    That would mean a process server and use of a free Penske truck, one way to any US destination.

    “…it won’t recover unless banks sit down with the homeowners and give them the breaks they deserve.”

  36. “You deserve a break today” only happens at McDonald’s.

    Everybody else: bend the fcuk over.

  37. whoops. Moderated for saying Mickey D’s?

  38. Painhrtz says:

    Safe that is the first fckin thought that popped into my head, your on 44K diability and you have a landscaping business. Ten bucks says it isn’t just Mexicans pushing the mowers. sounds like somebody needs to be inestigated. Cry me a river about your taxes you hagfish.

  39. Mike says:

    Neanderthal Number 30 Yes he was here first but we are under two totally different user names

  40. safe (31)-

    I hope that guy gets run over by one of his lawnmowers. I get so mad I shake when I think about how many other shit deals like his that NJ has cut. Sumbitch probably isn’t even disabled.

  41. neanderthal (33)-

    My daily announcement of doom is money in the bank. Ignore it at your own peril.

  42. schabadoo says:

    said Monko, 47, a former Asbury Park police officer who left the force in April 2000 and receives a $44,400 annual disability pension.

    It’s a failing of mine: when I hear ‘disabled’, I think of someone in a wheelchair, something like that. Not some mid-40s Skynyrd roadie that looks like he can stomp half the posters on this site.

  43. Shore Guy says:

    Bring on the Mother Truckers on a cold day.

  44. Neanderthal Economist says:

    Mike. Does grim reaper qualify as totally different than grim?

  45. schab (43)-

    Yeah. The guy’s probably a bodybuilder or powerlifter, too. I love those TV shows where they tape these schmucks on disability lifting 400 lbs. and running sprints.

  46. Painhrtz says:

    Friend of the family is on disability as an former upstate corrections officer. Owns his own business, drives a harley, goes to the gym everyday for “therapy” former army sniper and generally bad dude. I wouldn’t want to be the one who submits him for investigation

  47. NJGator says:

    Sorry. I live in Essex County and pay over $13k anually to live on my palatial .24 acre estate. And that’s only after litigating my taxes down. Can’t feel sorry for any of these Ocean County folk (Sorry, Shore).

  48. NJGator says:

    And why can’t these “disabled” cops work desk jobs?

  49. chicagofinance says:

    Biotch essentially referred to my wife and me as mouth breathing morons 5 years ago on National TV for “bubble sitting”.

    ny-to-pa says:
    December 9, 2010 at 7:51 am
    Barbara Corcoran just used this phrase about the housing market on the Today show:
    “it won’t recover unless banks sit down with the homeowners and give them the breaks they deserve.”

  50. chicagofinance says:

    The definition refers to the public sector employee’s moral compass.

    NJGator says:
    December 9, 2010 at 9:24 am
    And why can’t these “disabled” cops work desk jobs?

  51. Against The Grain says:

    While everyone is fantasizing about Mr. Monko’s disability, consider that it may be that may be a mental, not a physical one. Just by reading some of the comments on this blog, I can see that there’s a lot of that going around.

  52. njreal says:

    The odd thing to me is that the towns with the highest property taxes (montclair, princeton, ridgewood) are the most in demand. Everyone wants to live there, despite the high property taxes because they want the serives, mostly top schools. Couldn’t this be intepreted to mean that there is sufficient demand for government services to support the high property tax bills?

    I don’t think NJ has a property tax problem and I don’t think NJ’s problem is people leaving the State. I think its the opposite. There is too much demand for housing and people are willing to pay for it, which drives up home values and property taxes.
    If property taxes were too high, wouldn’t home values be dropping disproportionately in the high property tax towns to compensate for the increased cost of ownership? It seems to be the opposite, the train towns with good schools AND high property taxes are the most in demand.

  53. Juice Box says:

    LOL!

    Russia has suggested that Julian Assange should be awarded the Nobel peace prize…

  54. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Neanderthal,

    some people will never buy at any price.

    Price is relative. Everyone has to make their own assessment and for some that may indeed work out to never buying. Without substantial changes its unlikely i will ever buy in NJ. I am not willing to submit myself to a tax burden that can approach the PI on a house and is set to go much higher. So far i have been able to rent and focus more of my income on my family as opposed to RE taxes.
    I think the only way we see substantial drops in taxes in for rolling municipal bankruptcies as clot dreams of. Even then, if we dont put some sort of law/regulation in place to limit tax growth at the municipal level that demon will just spring a new head.

  55. Justin says:

    On an interesting side note, I got a lovely bill from the NJ Dept of Labor stating that they over paid me benefits in 2003 (I believe I was on short term disability for a portion of that year). Now they want their 757$ back. Seems like the state is trying to find money everywhere.

  56. chi (50)-

    Barbara Corcoran should be sentenced to life at hard labor on a chain gang.

  57. relo says:

    My 8th grader last night asked “If the government is trying to promote world peace, why does the government sell weapons to other countries?”. I replied, “I think you just answered your own question”. That one is going to be alright.

  58. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    NJREAL 53

    Its called brazilification, albeit this is child’s play so far compared to some places. The demand is driven by people wanting to segregate themselves from “undesirable” elements. What those taxes are buying is access to a school system where the parents are at least trivially involved with the children and arent babysat by a TV while mom has to work 2 jobs to cover the groceries.
    The difference in schooling in the US is largely tied to parental involvement.

  59. Juice Box says:

    re: #57 – I know someone who received a notice from the state that his license would be suspended for an unpaid parking ticket in about two weeks from a ticket written in the year 2000. 10 years later? He cannot even fight the ticket apparently either.

  60. Only a dolt would think Montclair HS is good.

  61. Painhrtz says:

    Cat 60 you know the mood has changed here when not even clot can muster up the terminity to shoot down a ramen eater.

    Seatbelt on waiting for oblivion

  62. NJGator says:

    njreal 53 – We’ll see how long that lasts. Chatting with a lot of local friends, even ones who have long drunk the Montklair kool-aid, I am hearing a lot of unhappy folks. And I know a lot of people here who would leave in a minute, but could never sell their place because they bought in ’04 or ’05 with almost no money down. They are trapped, they know the town is a fiscal trainwreck and they only have higher taxes and even less services to look forward to and no one trusts the keystone cops currently in charge of the municipality and the BOE to even make the “right” kind of cuts. It’s getting ugly here. So ugly in fact, that none of our Montclair friends are even judging us for our impending move to GR.

  63. NJGator says:

    Lamar 62 – Even our BOE is finally waking up to the fact that MHS is a problem.

    SOS Parents Remain Committed To Saving SchoolsSchool board members say they’ll look at reallocating resources so that more attention is paid to the high school

    But “we must invest in the high school,” she said. “We have brought in strong leadership but we may need to bring in more.
    “The creation of small learning communities there needs to be put on a fast track,” she said.
    MHS Principal James Earle is scheduled to make a presentation on small learning communities at the high school at the school board’s next meeting on December 20.
    Over the past several weeks, four working groups made up of community volunteers have put forth a variety of ways the school district could attract revenue or control costs going forward.
    The aim: plugging a $6.5 million budget gap.
    Monday night’s meeting afforded board members their first chance to discuss the presentations and, as Lombard put it, think out loud.
    While a handful of school board members reiterated their support for keeping each and every single school open, Lombard pointed out that not enough people are paying attention to the quality of the high school.
    “It’s unacceptable that the high school is barely in the top 100 high schools in the state,” she said. “If we can save $6.5 million without closing schools, fabulous.
    “But if we end up having to close an elementary school there would still be five other attractive options,” she said. “When you get to high school you only have one option or your other options may not be very attractive ones.
    “In a few years all of you elementary school parents are going to be worried about the high school,” she said. “I really think we need to have a discussion about reallocating resources.”
    For example, she finds it unacceptable that the high school’s guidance deparatment employs only 11 counselors for 2,000 kids.
    Other school board members also agreed that a greater emphasis has to be placed on the teaching and resources at the high school, something that benefits everyone by helping to keep property values high.

    http://montclair.patch.com/articles/board-members-want-greater-focus-on-high-school

  64. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Gator

    Too bad that the school isnt the root of the issue. They can pump all the resources into the school that they want, but if you have “absentee” parents (for whatever reason) and little to no expectations for the children then the school can do very little for most.

  65. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Clot,

    Fun in the UK

    As English students continue their protest over tuition rate hikes, a protest that started over a month ago and which has at times turned violent, they have now surrounded the Houses of Parliament as politicians pretend to discuss a matter which is basically a fait accompli. It is expected that a resolution on the student hike may be reached shortly. Watch the protest live below via Sky News.

    http://wwitv.com/tv_channels/b5791.htm

  66. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    To be clear, current socioeconomics probably drives a large part of parental absenteeism in most groups. It takes 2 incomes just to keep your head above water for most families. There are of course some cultural issues mixed int heir as well.

  67. NJGator says:

    True, Cat. And we will see if Montklair avoids it’s impending death spiral. Once they tax most of the middle class folks out of town, and the kids lower on the SES food chain attain a plurality, we’ll see if the wealthy folks that remain (because they love the diversity) are still willing to send their kids to public school that score even worse than they do today. Only 2 of our 6 fabulous elementary schools made AYP this year.

    Our BOE set up four working groups to prepare for this year’s budget disaster. The board is looking to cut $6.5M in expenses. Unfortunately there was no working group set up to study salary and benefits – which comprise about 85% of the total budget. So it looks like the board is looking to take an overall 6% budget cut solely out of only 15% of the budget. But it’s all for the kids, right?

  68. Juice Box says:

    re #64- They are trapped? Cumon Gator is that what they really are saying now trapped in their little socialist utopia. HaHaHa……. speaking of your friends and neighbors judging each other wait until someones kid get busted for selling drugs so they can buy the Abercrombie clothes they could no longer afford after their family income was cut in half. I can see allot of new fence permits. What is the allowable fence height anyway? Can you put up a stone wall with glass on top?

  69. dan says:

    Gator,

    How come the BOE isn’t using drug dealers as a potential revenue source? Maybe a weapons salesman too.

  70. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Dan 71

    All it takes is one well publicized incident for there to be a boom in urban self defense/personal security

  71. NJGator says:

    Dan 71 – I dunno. But I think Stu did propose Crack Vial Tops for Education on Baristanet.

  72. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Did anyone else notice this?

    Outgoing Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger made a last-ditch effort Monday to help close California’s budget deficit by proposing deep cuts to social services and prisons, ideas that had been rejected by lawmakers in previous budget negotiations.

    The Republican governor on Monday declared a fiscal emergency and called the Legislature into a special session to deal with part of the deficit, which is $25.4 billion over the next 18 months.

    http://tinyurl.com/25s5gb8

  73. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Gator,

    I see a potential market for kevlar lined backpacks for the kids (yes, they make them) and GPS tracker bugs for their sneakers.

  74. Orion says:

    Lender Processing Services (LPS) handles more than half of all foreclosures- read on:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6B547N20101206?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a49:g43:r5:c0.035692:b40051798:z0

  75. cat (67)-

    Anarchy in the UK!

    Why do kids even want to go to college in the UK? They are toast.

  76. gator (69)-

    The only group that needs to form in Montklair is one to set a strategy for declaring municipal BK and using the threat of that to bring all the public service parasites to heel.

  77. juice (70)-

    Aka, the Argentine wall.

    “Can you put up a stone wall with glass on top?”

  78. NJGator says:

    Lamar 78 – Our current debt level is completely acceptable for a municipality of our size. And we are not a poorly run municipality. And Montklair is the best place to live in America. I know this to be true. Mayor Fried told me personally.

  79. Pretty soon, Mayor Fraud will only have himself to talk to.

  80. London student riots now on CNBC.

  81. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Lamar

    Re London riots:

    Besides the entertainment value, the riots are a Faustian act. They are demanding that the state maintain a certain level of benefits when the bill will only be passed to the rioters children if they are successfully. Yes the banks were bailed out with huge sums of public money, but the students are not rioting over the bank bailouts but simply over cuts to education subsidies.
    Misdirected action can have a more negative effect at the end of the day then no action at all. However, it is nice to see a few groups speaking out even if it may be misdirected.

  82. freedy says:

    most americans are to fat and lazy,, plus stupid to protest.

  83. Anon E. Moose says:

    Yo [141-yesterday];

    I think the PR angle is to use the black swans, genuine mistakes like the ones cited in the article, as human shields to keep the deadbeats in my house.

    I’m fine with loser pays. That solves the problem cited, no?

    Even without loser pays, if the homeowner keeps a paper trail, and has evidence that the bank told them “you need to hire an attorney”, only to fold like a cheap card table when the same evidence presented to them beforehand shows up in court, the court would have a hard time justifying a denial of sanctions/attorney fees. Tack on counterclaims and damages for slander and defamation of character in the case where the credit ratings are hit. This really isn’t ground breaking stuff.

    Often a car accident is a mistake – e.g., someone ran a red light. When people make mistakes and it causes harm to others, the harmed person can sue to recover their damages. No different here. And its certainly not an excuse to derail the normal operation of the market to foreclose on and resell the houses of deadbeats who can’t afford them.

  84. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    CLot,

    Did you notice the description of the riot under the live news cast?

    Missiles and bottles thrown….

    Physics homework for the day:
    How many rioting UK students does it take to accelerate a missile to a velocity sufficient for it to be used as a projectile weapon.

    for extra credit: How exactly does a UK student obtain a missile and covertly transport it to the riot when private ownership of guns is banned and it is illegal to publicly possess a blade greater then 3″ in length.

  85. schabadoo says:

    While everyone is fantasizing about Mr. Monko’s disability, consider that it may be that may be a mental, not a physical one.

    It’s considered and likely. Shoot in the direction of someone and then claim emotional distress, it’s very common.

    Just by reading some of the comments on this blog, I can see that there’s a lot of that going around.

    Remember, as the holidays are here, do not isolate yourself. Surround yourself with loved ones, your close friends. If you need help refer to a counselor or physician.

  86. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    I think this sums up Mooses POV quit nicely

    I think the PR angle is to use the black swans, genuine mistakes like the ones cited in the article, as human shields to keep the deadbeats in my house.

  87. Unexpected HEHEHE says:

    “Barbara Corcoran just used this phrase about the housing market on the Today show:
    “it won’t recover unless banks sit down with the homeowners and give them the breaks they deserve.””

    That is a classic. Somebody needs to be keeping a list of these types of overtly self-serving ignorant statements that are continuously being made by the “intelligentsia” and “leaders” in this country.

  88. cat (89)-

    Where you sit is where you stand.

    BTW, “missile” is the British way of referring to anything that gets thrown or hurled through the air.

  89. HE (90)-

    I think we should set up Babs Corcoran and Moose on a blind date.

    She would end up in pieces in the Passaic River.

  90. Anon E. Moose says:

    Cat [68];

    You said it, brother. See, Down and Out on $250,000 a Year

    (Apologies if that article was linked previously.)

  91. Juice Box says:

    re: # 79 – Just checked the code in Montclair, you can only have 4 and one-half feet in Montclair Code Section 347-27A(2).

    4.5 feet isn’t going to keep anyone out!

  92. safe as houses says:

    #53 njreal

    I don’t understand the high demand for Montclair since it has a large hood section. i can see why people would pay up for towns that don’t have hoods and gangs in them.

  93. Anon E. Moose says:

    HEHE [90];

    Better yet, a buyer pitching lowballs on a Corcoran listing should quote the listing agent’s boss. “Tell the seller to ‘give me the break I deserve.’ “

  94. Painhrtz says:

    Cat 89, maybe they are using Roman candles and bottle rockets.

    Just tuned into CNBC, I’m pretty disappointed with the amount of soccer hooligans in that country they can’t even mounta proper riot. Doesn’t anyone have the nerve to crack skulls anymore?

  95. NJGator says:

    This being Montclair, of course there has to be an element of moral judgement to this.

    Montclair wants to raise water fees, especially for heavy users

    MONTCLAIR — Montclair’s council plans to raise next year’s water rate 3 percent, while instituting a steeper charge for high-volume users to encourage conservation.

    The council introduced an ordinance Tuesday that would raise the water rate to $3.13 per hundred cubic feet of water, starting in January. Those who use more than 3,300 cubic feet would pay 10 percent more.

    0
    Share 0 Comments “People who for instance have their sprinklers running during rainstorms and just constantly wasting water would essentially be paying a higher rate for that water,” said Mayor Jerry Fried, “and would reward people who are basically taking responsible actions.”

    High-volume water users who go through more than 13,000 cubic feet per day, such as a college dorm or water park, would pay 20 percent more.

    http://www.nj.com/news/local/index.ssf/2010/12/montclair_wants_to_raise_water.html

  96. Anon E. Moose says:

    Lamar [93];

    One less used house sales flack is a good start. Speaking of which, how’s the wine business?

  97. Juice Box says:

    re: # 96 – Safe “i can see why people would pay up for towns that don’t have hoods and gangs in them.”

    There is a big difference in Montclair, they are paying $$$ extra to have a hood and the hoodlums and their fence permit process only allows for 4.5 feet in height.

    Back in 2006 they even sponsored a town event called “Leave your doors unlocked tonight” and somehow this year however there is talk about flight……

  98. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Juice,

    4ft topped with a nice wide coil of razor wire would certainly slow down most people. And if they want to be really strict you could just do a 3 ft fence with multiple layers of razor wire behind it.

  99. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Juice,

    How about a 4 ft dirt berm with a 4 ft, 1/4″ steel fence fronted with razoe wire? That should suppress most gun fire and prevents casual access to your property.

  100. njreal says:

    #96 – Safehouses

    I agree on Montclair. Montclair high has its share of issues.

    My point is just that people seem MORE than willing to pay NJ property taxes because house prices are relatively high. We can all complain about property taxes, but the fact is there is somebody willing to pick up that tab to live in most of the nice towns of NJ. In fact, those people are willing to pay a fairly steep premium for the house even with the property tax tab.

  101. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Juice

    “Leave your doors unlocked tonight”

    That sounds like a headline out of the Onion!!!!

  102. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    NJreal

    Social inertia is a b1tch. All these savvy home buyers thought that there was no housing bubble in sight in 2006 either. Now i commonly here that we are at bottom and it’s a great time to buy because of historic rates!!! You add on top of the social inertia factor that the government is doing everything it can to keep housing from deflating and you are seeing exactly the behavior one would expect.
    There is also the issue that housing is fairly il-liquid (non-liquid???). It takes time for trends to propagate through the general home buying population.

  103. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Juice,

    One of the first things that an Army drill instructor will teach you (one way or another) is that those who fail to secure their personal possessions are responsible for the loss in the first place. (said lesson usually involves lots of physical punishment)

    There wouldn’t be any crime in this world if stupid privates would secure their god damn belongings!!!

  104. Shore Guy says:

    “How about a 4 ft dirt berm with a 4 ft, 1/4″ steel fence fronted with razoe wire? ”

    How very Architectural Digest. I can see the issue now, Suburban Bunkers for the 21st Century.

  105. NJGator says:

    Hey it could happen. AD is based in New York now. No more of that flaky LA crap.

  106. PG says:

    Completely off-topic, but i was searching for a FLIP HD camcorder and came across this title of the product which may be relevant to this blog

    Ikelite 5611.01 Underwater Video Housing for The Flip SlideHD camc

    http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&biw=1024&bih=587&q=flip+slidehd+camcorder&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=4384979086450759383&ei=vwkBTdHTF4L-8Aa54dW9Bw&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CFkQ8wIwBQ#

  107. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Shore,

    I expect at least some passing credit when this hits AD!!!

  108. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Shore,

    I hear 308 stainless Steel could work well as any gang tags can be easily sandblasted off or wiped away which a nice muriatic (Hydrochloric) acid wash. As a bonus you get that old world look after the acid wash.

  109. NJGator says:

    Board sets stage for major budget cuts

    The Board of Education started the ball rolling on major budget cuts this past Monday night, instructing the financially strapped Montclair School District’s top administrators to draft plans to reduce its Central Office operation and consider outsourcing its teacher aides.

    The moves, which emerged during a marathon five-hour-long public board meeting, could affect more than 200 of the district’s more than 1,000 employees and are a precursor to what Board of Education President Shelly Lombard said would be more moves to come.

    In addition to Central Office reductions and teacher aide outsourcing, Lombard, with the board’s support, told Schools Superintendent Frank Alvarez and district Business Administrator Dana Sullivan to examine transportation-related cost reductions.

    Those moves include cutting school busing for as many as 500 students, eliminating the aides who ride the school buses and consolidating some school bus routes.

    The board indicated it favors a “play to participate” plan that would assess a $100-per-pupil fee on Montclair High School students who participate on the school’s athletic teams or in its extracurricular programs.

    “I think the board members realize the fiscal crisis we are in and want to keep everything on the table until we figure out how we will get out of this financial hole,” Lombard said.

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/111579604_What_to_keep__what_to_chop.html?page=all

  110. grim says:

    Ron Paul to lead the House/Fed oversight committee. Watch your back Benny.

  111. Juice Box says:

    Gotta love this lame duck session..we had a deal and now we have gridlock on extending the Bush Tax cuts for two years.

    The House Democratic caucus on Thursday rejected the tax deal negotiated between the White House and Senate Republicans. …

    Fiddling while Rome burns folks…

  112. JJ says:

    well most experts are saying we are bouncing around the bottom but say we are either at the bottom or within 10 per cent of the bottom. For buyers buying today putting down 10%, the 10% decline would wipe out 100% of their investment.

    Schrodinger’s Cat says:
    December 9, 2010 at 11:26 am

    NJreal

    Social inertia is a b1tch. All these savvy home buyers thought that there was no housing bubble in sight in 2006 either. Now i commonly here that we are at bottom and it’s a great time to buy because of historic rates!!! You add on top of the social inertia factor that the government is doing everything it can to keep housing from deflating and you are seeing exactly the behavior one would expect.
    There is also the issue that housing is fairly il-liquid (non-liquid???). It takes time for trends to propagate through the general home buying population.

  113. schabadoo says:

    The House Democratic caucus on Thursday rejected the tax deal negotiated between the White House and Senate Republicans. …

    The Tea Party will be ecstatic, they’re big on reducing the deficit:

    “The survey finds that the deficit is seen as an especially pressing issue to those who agree with the Tea Party movement — fully 84% of Tea Party supporters say it is a major problem that must be addressed now.”

  114. Schrodinger's Cat says:
  115. Juice Box says:

    Schab – gridlock coupled with stagflation. Jimmy Carter all over again.

  116. JJ says:

    Well I spoke to a few C-level, BOD, Big 4 Partners, Chief Economists, Audit Committee members this morning at one of those hotity toity places. Here are my favorite quotes:

    Six years of boom, six years debt deleveraging – we are only 2 years into it.

    USA may never raise rates again same for Europe, UK and Japan

    Household debt to disposable income was .63 in 1984 and currently 1.2, still almost double 1984 two years into deleveraging process.

    “Everyone’s debt is someone else’s asset”

    “there has been a rush in europe to exchange euros for swiss marks”

    Random thoughts in my coversations, but interesting.

  117. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Jaime[122],

    Has Ben opened the window for carpet manufacturers?

  118. yo'me says:

    The FED being independent and courtesy calls answering questions from the lawmakers.What is the oversight committee’s function again?

    “Ron Paul to lead the House/Fed oversight committee. Watch your back Benny.”

  119. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Wantan

    I hear he accepts dead fish wrapped in carpet but prefers them wrapped in a fresh NYT or WSJ

  120. yo'me says:

    Kudos to JJ

    Household Worth in U.S. Rose by $1.2 Trillion in 3rd Quarter Household wealth in the U.S. rose by $1.2 trillion in the third quarter as share prices jumped in response to an improving economy.

  121. dan says:

    Classic.

    The NY Times reporting on Chinese day-traders being so prevalent since they work for peanuts. We have truly outsourced everything. Well, almost everything, the Chinese were reckless degenerate gamblers to begin with.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/business/global/10daytrade.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2&src=busln

  122. relo says:

    Lots on NY cops/firefighters on disability in FL. Fun bunch of guys. You should see them cut a rug at the community holiday party. They’re all working off the books.

  123. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Dan [126],

    They are huge futures traders. I once had a Chinese Doctor who had trading screens in his office. He would have them programmed to beep after a certain % move. He would leave patients and run to his screen anytime he heard it beeping. When the market went against him he would call our office a bunch of round eye fcuks. Classic.

  124. dan says:

    njreal,

    Towns with high taxes in demand? I guess Clifton and West Orange aren’t part of your territory.

  125. Anon E. Moose says:

    Cat [89];

    It is my house. Yours, too; and Mikeinwaiting’s, etc. Until recently, still_looking and others. It is all of ours because we saw the bubble, but didn’t get sucked in by the “Most Unqualified Buyer Auction”. The idiots being foreclosed upon now are the self same ones who qualified for their oversized mortgages only because qualification meant a pulse – the intelect to recognize the magnitude of the bear trap being walked into was a disqualifier.

    They got to live in the house, I got to live in the rental housing stock – comprised of run down original equipment Levitt homes, illegal splits, etc. They made only token “Pick-A-Payment” contributions towards the expense; got tax write offs to boot. Naturally, rent is not tax deductible. Well, their full bill is now due.

    They’re crying about how attached they are to their house [that they paid almost nothing for], how much [of the banks HELOC] money they poured into it in improvements. They get bailouts of tax money; my tax money because their living expenses were tax-deductible.

    I am coming to the belief that I am worse off for not having bought at the top of the bubble and subsequently defaulted. It really sucks having been so right for so long, and gotten screwed for it, while the deadbeats continue to get rewarded.

  126. JJ says:

    If a couple in their 40’s can’t afford to pay 10K in taxes, moving won’t help much, it means you have a combination of little savings, little interest/dividend income and not much of a salary. Even with zero real estate taxes your other problems are all still there.

  127. Juice Box says:

    ROFL!

    VINELAND NJ– Many people who use any of the city’s parks and recreational facilities could be subject to admission fees under a new proposal now before City Council.

    http://www.thedailyjournal.com/article/20101209/NEWS01/12090315/1002/City-considers-fee-to-play-at-parks-%28corrected-version

    The city’s Recreation Commission has twice come before council this year with concerns about revenue and ideas to implement park fees. One idea had the city charging individual athletes in leagues affiliated with the city to use parks and fields. The other plan would see groups pay fees to use city recreational facilities.

    Due to deep budget cuts, the commission needs revenue for park maintenance and clean-up costs, Commission Chairman Ernie Marcacci said.

    City Solicitor Alfred Verderose on Tuesday presented an ordinance to council that includes both of those earlier proposals. The ordinance includes per-season costs for athletes ranging from $5 to $20, depending on the participant’s age and where they live, and park rental costs of $150 for residents and $300 for nonresidents.

    Can someone pull up Vineland employee payroll records. I am sure we can find some money to pay for the parks.

  128. Janice says:

    “Chewed hole in their budgets” from property tax appeals??

    How about “Chewed hole in taxpayers’ budgets” from 6 figure pension deals and subsidized healtchare for public union gov’t administration??

  129. NJGator says:

    Maybe NJ should look into this…

    German city pares budget deficit with ‘s*x tax’

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40586027/ns/world_news-europe/

  130. ditto says:

    I’m moving from brooklyn. We’re looking at GR. We discounted Montclair because of the high school – they need to get their act together soon. Whats the point of paying 12-14K taxes for that place?

  131. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Gator,

    A new purpose for xanadu!!!!

  132. Zhang Fei says:

    JJ says:
    December 9, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Well I spoke to a few C-level, BOD, Big 4 Partners, Chief Economists, Audit Committee members this morning at one of those hotity toity places. Here are my favorite quotes:

    Six years of boom, six years debt deleveraging – we are only 2 years into it.

    USA may never raise rates again same for Europe, UK and Japan.

    If they are right, are bonds oversold now? Or were they overbought in the first place?

  133. Painhrtz says:

    Moose when it comes to bubbles the prudent and conservative are always $crewed, This is why we saved and bought a house on the downward trend, with low rates, at a price we could afford. Couldn’t wait for the bottom, had no intentions of it. Am I pissed about bailing out the grasshoppers and sheep of course I am. The thing that really gets me going is the absolute suspension of moral hazard and market reality. The rule of law is dead.

    Juice box, Vineland is a hole, and their parks are drug infested rat holes. I know, it is where my pot dealer was located in college. The city council will find if they start charging, they will have an even larger budget shortfall.

  134. NJGator says:

    Ditto – 12-14k? You’re an optimist :) Give it another year or two and you will only find low taxes like that within 1,000 feet of the Bullock School/Official Town Drug Den.

  135. ditto says:

    Well if you’re paying those taxes you expect local freelance pharmaceutical services to be readily accessible.

  136. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Gator

    Do they deliver?

  137. Juice Box says:

    London riots still happening.

    The AP (via Breaking News) is reporting that protesters have attacked a car with Prince Charles and his wife Camilla inside. Both, apparently, are unhurt.

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/reports-london-protesters-break-into-treasury-2010-12#ixzz17eC1HSXR

  138. moose (100)-

    I’ll tell you about my business when you tell us what the hell you do.

  139. Painhrtz says:

    Juice, 143 replace apparently with unfortunately and it would better represent the wanker’s view of Chuck and Camilla

  140. pain (98)-

    Problem is, soccer hooligans in the UK aren’t gonna fight for keeping down the cost of college. Most soccer ultras can’t read or write and don’t really care to learn.

  141. dan (130)-

    Another delusional troll. Not worth the energy expended to respond.

  142. moose (131)-

    Too bad your beloved banks- pushed along by Congress- cooked up the whole scheme.

    “It really sucks having been so right for so long, and gotten screwed for it, while the deadbeats continue to get rewarded.”

  143. Painhrtz says:

    Good point Clot, you had to figure they would have absorbed some tactics through visual interaction though

  144. cat (137)-

    I’d gladly pay for an E-ticket ride on Heidi Klum.

  145. safe as houses says:

    #135 NJGator

    We need a tax on trophy wives, plastic surgery, and Japanese hair straightening.

  146. pain (145)-

    I heard the crowd dispersed when Camilla rolled down the window and smiled at them.

  147. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Lamar,

    I’m pretty sure that your talking about the 1k/hr ticket at that level

  148. Juice Box says:

    Krugman true to form. There really is no bus he will not toss Obama under.

    “Obama may be buying off the hostage-takers by … giving them more hostages.”

    Also compares him to Jimmy Carter and his chances of re-election. He really must be reading this blog.

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/

  149. safe as houses says:

    #152 Lamar,

    “I heard the crowd dispersed when Camilla rolled down the window and smiled at them.”

    You sure Charles wasn’t mooning them? It’s hard to tell the difference.

  150. JJ says:

    Bonds are oversold right now that is why they are bouncing back. Citigroup yesterday afternoon put a buy rating on the ten year. Sweet spot is 5-10 and for a special situation 10-20, but avoid 20+ plus. We are digging out of a huge ditch so problem is passbook, CDs, savings accounts, savings bonds and very short term treasuries will remain paying peanuts for many years until Fed if ever starts raising Fed Fund rates.

    Zhang Fei says:
    December 9, 2010 at 2:41 pm

    JJ says:
    December 9, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Well I spoke to a few C-level, BOD, Big 4 Partners, Chief Economists, Audit Committee members this morning at one of those hotity toity places. Here are my favorite quotes:

    Six years of boom, six years debt deleveraging – we are only 2 years into it.

    USA may never raise rates again same for Europe, UK and Japan.

    If they are right, are bonds oversold now? Or were they overbought in the first place?

  151. Painhrtz says:

    Safe they thought it was Camilla then realized it was Chuck’s polo pony

  152. Painhrtz says:

    Juice 157 the one good thing about that article is the photo of the kids filming the fireball on their smart phones.

    the revolution will indeed be televised

  153. Painhrtz says:

    And I look like a loon spammer

    reality hits home

    http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/111549/were-no-2

  154. JJ says:

    Just to show how quickly yields on Munis have moved, this 5.375 coupon bond was at par a few weeks ago, today it is at 93 with a ytm of 6%, that is a huge movement given no news out of Monroe NY and Fed Fund rates have not risen at all. A 6%YTM for someone in the 40% tax bracket is a taxable equiv yield of 10%

    Market is ilquid, more seller than buyers and the whole BAB thing, how can one not say this is a buying opportunity for the Hold to Maturity crowd.
    BAA3/NR 5 610755YH7 MONROE CNTY N Y INDL DEV AGY 5.375 04/01/29 6.000(M) 93.105 NY N

  155. I still find it hard to believe that Krugman is actually an economist, much less a Nobel laureate. He seems much more like a second-rate liberal political hack, like that Mayor Fraud in Montklair.

  156. Juice Box says:

    JJ – do you think your don’t fight the Fed strategy will work with Muni bonds too? Only 54 of the 60,000 munis that Moody’s Investors Service rated from 1970 through last year have defaulted.
    When will the Fed start back stopping the 3 trillion dollar municipal bond market? Half of American municipalities are insolvent and this a problem a big as sub-prime or perhaps even bigger because of the un-funded liabilities. The question is not if but when Bernake and his printing press show up in the Muni markets, and also whether the yield and tax exempt status will do better than inflation.

  157. AG says:

    18.

    Mike,

    You have to get some of those developers to build some retirement villages to help offset the tax burden. Put those old bastards to work.

    But I hear ya, Im outta here as well maybe even the entire country if this tyrannical BS continues. Just waiting for the other shoe to drop so Im not gainfully employed anymore. Shouldnt be too long now.

  158. yo'me says:

    Is he singing a different tune?

    Pimco Raises U.S. Growth Forecast on `Massive’ Stimulus
    Pacific Investment Management Co., which manages the world’s biggest bond fund, is raising its forecast for U.S. growth next year as policy makers pump a “massive amount” of stimulus into the economy, Chief Executive Officer Mohamed El-Erian said.
    ..

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-09/pimco-raises-2011-u-s-growth-forecast-to-3-to-3-5-on-massive-stimulus.html

  159. shawn212 says:

    Don’t know if this has been posted yet – good laugh for those who follow gold

    http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/cash-4-second.jpg

  160. JJ says:

    I am not fighting anything. Munis are not treasuries, it is a vast collections of bonds with vastly different risks. I give an example I bought 20 year St. John’s University Dorm Bonds. First of all bonds are insured, secondly bonds are back by tuition, thirdly the bonds are back-stopped by the Catholic Church and a Bond Insurer, Finally, St. Johns owns outright a huge plot of land mortgage free the university sits on, a huge endowment fund and huge CBS Broadcasting and MSG deals. Yet under the rating system none of that is accounted for. It can get lumped in with Shea Stadium bonds backed by revenue from Team Attendence and a stadium build on a junkyard and managed by an owner stupid enough to invest with Bernie Madoff.

    Munis hold to maturity for water bonds, revenue bonds, state GO bonds, are a lot different than hospital and stadium bonds.

    Juice Box says:
    December 9, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    JJ – do you think your don’t fight the Fed strategy will work with Muni bonds too? Only 54 of the 60,000 munis that Moody’s Investors Service rated from 1970 through last year have defaulted.
    When will the Fed start back stopping the 3 trillion dollar municipal bond market? Half of American municipalities are insolvent and this a problem a big as sub-prime or perhaps even bigger because of the un-funded liabilities. The question is not if but when Bernake and his printing press show up in the Muni markets, and also whether the yield and tax exempt status will do better than inflation.

  161. AG says:

    166.

    “It’s all about the bond auctions, the bond fell off a cliff. In the derivatives market you’ve got JP Morgan playing the bond market at the behest of the Fed, going long 30 years versus selling short-term paper. They buy 30 year paper and then immediately hedge themselves by selling the 30, 60 and 90 day paper. It’s how they keep interest rates down, it’s how you do it.

    The only reason interest rates are not in double digits in the US is because of this game. These guys are short front month paper. If this (the bond market) actually fell much longer, JP Morgan could be wiped out, I mean they would be liquidated. The Fed cannot allow them to do that. We’re witnessing history here.

    Money flowing out of bonds is going into precious metals. So what they are doing is trying to paint the tape and make it look like a double-top in gold, with silver also retreating. Open interest went up into the decline, this is a gift (the decline). Asian buyers are laughing, we’re like a cartoon to them. They cannot believe how orchestrated this is.”
    http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2010/12/9_KWN_Source_-_Gold_Will_Move_$150_Higher_Within_5_Weeks.html

  162. JJ says:

    QE3 if BAB is not extended will be buying long term state GO muni bonds, mark my words.

  163. relo says:

    121:

    Not in BK.

    “Everyone’s debt is someone else’s asset”

  164. Zhang Fei says:

    Un-effin’-believable… (Pardon my French). Whatever happened to the sleepy, practically comatose muni market of yore?

    JJ says:
    December 9, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Just to show how quickly yields on Munis have moved, this 5.375 coupon bond was at par a few weeks ago, today it is at 93 with a ytm of 6%, that is a huge movement given no news out of Monroe NY and Fed Fund rates have not risen at all. A 6%YTM for someone in the 40% tax bracket is a taxable equiv yield of 10%

    Market is ilquid, more seller than buyers and the whole BAB thing, how can one not say this is a buying opportunity for the Hold to Maturity crowd.
    BAA3/NR 5 610755YH7 MONROE CNTY N Y INDL DEV AGY 5.375 04/01/29 6.000(M) 93.105 NY N

  165. Shore Guy says:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11954333

    Why does the UK need a hereditary head of state, with all the attendant costs? Chuckie brings little benefit the people who pay his freight. With the death of his mother, it would be a good time to end the folly of monarchy in the UK.

  166. Shore Guy says:

    On a related note, what is the future-king doing riding in an unarmoured vehicle? Run-of-the-mill protesters broke a window in his car. Perhaps GM can sell them a few “beasts.”

  167. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Shore,

    I hear that the monarchy has had to cut back as of late. I guess the armored cars went first.

  168. Shore Guy says:

    “s*x tax”

    I can’t tonight dear, I cant afford the tax.

  169. Shore Guy says:

    Ket,

    Do away with the lot of them. It is a waste of an institution. Turn the palaces into luxury hotels or condos.

  170. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Thinking of going to Shanghai Jazz this weekend. Anyone have any suggestions for something similiar, jazz and dinner?

  171. dan says:

    Went to Shanghai Jazz a couple of years ago. Everything was great until the green tea ice cream which tasted terrible. Ruined the night. My friends still tease me about being pissed about it. Isn’t there a Trumpets in Montclair?

  172. Confused In NJ says:

    Bar Stool Economics
    Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100 and If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

    The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
    The fifth would pay $1.
    The sixth would pay $3.
    The seventh would pay $7.
    The eighth would pay $12.
    The ninth would pay $18.
    The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.)

    So, that’s what they decided to do.

    The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.” so drinks for the ten now cost just $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected…They would still drink for free…But what about the other six men – the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’…They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33…But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer..So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

    And so:
    The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings)
    The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
    The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
    The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
    The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
    The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

    Each of the six was better off than before…And the first four continued to drink for free…But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. “I only got a dollar out of the $20,”declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,” but he got $10!” “Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!” “That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!” “Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!”

    The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

    The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

    And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction.Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

  173. joyce says:

    (179)
    I will never hate anyone for making more money than I (even if they make millions to my 90K). I might be jealous, but I will never ask some organized crime syndicate to steal from them and give it to me.

    However, if those millionaires and billionaires are fraudulently “earning” their money, that is a problem. That is when supposedly the government is supposed to put a stop to it, prosecute them, incarcerate them, and claw back the ill-gotten money/goods. Unfortunately, a bigger problem is that the government is protecting them, and helping them rape everyone else.

  174. Essex says:

    179. Just another cut and paste. This simpleton couldn’t come up with a ‘story’ like that and he probably can’t explain it. Just another example of a failed wisdom.

  175. AG says:

    Nom or anyone else.

    I am going to open up an offshore banking account preferably in Canada. Can anyone think of any patriot act or other issues that should be considered?

    I have to call them tomorrow and would prefer not to have to travel there to get it done. I heard TD bank Canada is relatively problem free.

    Anyone have some input?

  176. Punch My Ticket says:

    Chances are they won’t do it over the phone. They have obligations to verify your identity. How will they do that?

    Even if you do get the account opened, there are rules to follow.

    1. Declare the income (hah, what income?) every year.
    2. Send a TD F 90 to Detroit every April.
    3. Do not ever carry more than $10k over the border. Ever. Not cash, not travelers checks, not certified checks, not bank drafts, not money orders. Either wire money or mail a personal check.

  177. Punch My Ticket says:

    4. (not a rule but wise) Send USD and let the Canadian bank convert it. You will still be ripped off but not as badly as if you deal with a thieving US bank.

  178. Fabius Maximus says:

    #179

    Its more like
    The first four are drinking water even if they could afford a beer, the bar doesn’t take WIC.
    The fifth is drinking a domestic beer
    The sixth is drinking an Import beer
    The seventh is drinking a craft beer.
    The eight is drinking Jack D,.
    The ninth is drinking Domestic Champagne
    The tenth is drinking Cristal.

    The 10th guy decides that he is not coming back to the bar unless the cost of his Cristal is reduced more. He says his Cristal is the same strength as the Moet so he should get the same discount. He ignores the fact that the bar has extra expense to store the high value stock to stop it getting stolen. So instead of the owner getting 50% markup on Moet, he only gets 20% markup on Cristal.

    So what is the bar owner to do? If the 10th guy walks he loses 60% of his revenue, but if he gives in, his profit margins take a hit. But there is a silver lining; if the 10th guy walks he also loses the expenses associated with supporting the high cost product line.

  179. Fabius Maximus says:

    #5 Nom

    “Yesterday, we heard from the Commissioner of the IRS”

    They should have got Wesley Snipes in before his trip to the big house. He could have done a PSA along the lines of “Winners don’t do d rugs and pay their taxes!”

  180. Fabius Maximus says:

    #172 Shore
    I don’t think you understand the role Brenda plays for the UK. She controls how the country is governed. She has the power to appoint the prime minister to form a government and has the power to dissolve it. The people only elect the members of Parliament.

    Brenda gets around $7million from the public purse to run her household and around $25 million to cover travel expenses. The Royal family fly British Airways for the most part and Military transport. The country picks up the security tab, that is mostly personnel costs. The PR and goodwill she generates around the world is worth the cost.

    Chuckie for the most part pays his own way. He takes no draw from the public purse. He has some minor accommodations provided by his mother in the royal residences, and the same level of security.

    Compare that to the $180K per hour cost for this country to run AF1.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1332946/Air-Force-One-running-costs–181-757-hour.html

  181. shore (172)-

    I believe Messrs Rotten and Vicious said it best.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeP220xx7Bs

  182. shore (175)-

    I miss the old days, when the tax on s@x was gonorrhaea or syphilis.

  183. joyce (180)-

    Post of the year.

  184. gluteus (187)-

    All those inbreed English royalty should be put to the guillotine and the monarchy ended forthwith.

    Their friggin’ king/queen thing reminds me that they’re way more degenerate than we are.

  185. Essex says:

    Oh Lamar, lighten up.

  186. And my Magpies fired Hughton and hired fcuking Alan Pardew, for absolutely no reason. Now we’re going from a spot in Europe to another relegation battle.

    It’s just like I’m a Mets fan- who moved to Jupiter- then found the Mets playing baseball on Jupiter.

  187. Let me correct that statement. Nothing is worse than following the Mets.

  188. Fabius Maximus says:

    #194 Clot

    Look on the bright side, at least it wasn’t Dalglish.

  189. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Veto 27 some at 50% but mostly sh*t. It ain’t over yet by a long shot up here. Thanks for remembering my long tenure, sh*t did I just use the word tenure.

    Clot 35 yes, excellent vantage point.

    AG 164 Have 4 more years then no kids in school , getting out of dodge.

  190. Fabius Maximus says:

    #195 Clot

    I won tickets to a Knicks game last year, I would beg to differ. They were up 20+ points after the first and lost by six.

  191. cobbler says:

    Germans Get Jobs for Life as Export Boom Shrinks Worker Pool
    By Richard Weiss – Dec 9, 2010 6:01 PM ET
    Dec. 10 (Bloomberg) — Germany’s export-driven industry is embracing an asset closer to home: domestic workers.

    BASF SE, the world’s largest chemicals maker, last month followed Siemens AG in granting job security for the 33,000 workers at its Ludwigshafen plant. Siemens, the biggest German company by market value, said in September it will indefinitely secure locations and jobs for all its 128,000 domestic employees in the most sweeping concession to local workers yet. Utility E.ON AG and carmaker Porsche AG have similar accords.

    Unemployment in Europe’s largest economy has tumbled to the lowest level in 18 years, as companies seek skilled workers to sustain an economic rebound that shows few signs of cooling. The demand for local talent marks a shift from a decade-long trend of companies moving production abroad to escape high wages and German labor market regulation that hampered hiring and firing.

    German workers have more clout than in other countries because they are represented in the highest echelons of company management. Every supervisory board of publicly traded companies is evenly split between representatives for management and employees. That system, unique to Germany, gives works councils and union members more sway over strategy, hiring and firing, as well as the pay of senior executives.

    “When I left General Electric, I thought this can’t possibly work, you can’t run a company with all these labor representatives on the board,” Peter Solmssen, who joined Siemens’s management board in 2007, said in an interview in Munich on Dec. 1.

    Solmssen, a U.S. citizen who oversees compliance at the engineering company, said he has since revised his opinion, as Siemens “gains more from working with the labor representatives than what we give up.”

    Germany, with 82 million people and a gross domestic product of 2.4 trillion euros ($3.3 trillion), relies on an apprentice system rooted in the tradition of master craftsmen handing down their expertise to young people, producing a steady stream of qualified workers…

  192. Shore Guy says:

    “I don’t think you understand the role Brenda plays for the UK. She controls how the country is governed. She has the power to appoint the prime minister to form a government and has the power to dissolve it. The people only elect the members of Parliament. ”
    FM,

    I fully understand the Monarch’s constitutional role in th UK. This head of state role, as opposed to the PM’s head of government role, can be performed by an elected president, just as happens in other parliamentary democracies. The upshot for places like Canada is that they would also be rid of their unelected head of state and her appointed governors.

  193. Reversion to Mean says:

    Worse than following the Mets?

    Wit Da Mess, you know you’re gonna be surprised and delighted. Or maybe beaten about the head with a baseball bat but confident you will continue to return to for more. Crapshoot.

    Gambling is a rush.

    With buying a house, you wonder year after year if Clot is right and some people (i.e.,
    “ME” will never buy.)

    The big difference is you have a couple of months in the Winter to rethink your Crisis of Faith and worry about going to h3ll. So you do your Easter duty and go back to Mess.

    There’s no break on the house thing.

  194. Fabius Maximus says:

    #201 Shore

    The Commonwealth Realms are free to vote for a Republic, some have some haven’t. I can’t see Canada going republic. While Quebec may aspire to independance, the rest of the country are quite happy with the current setup or oblivious to it.

  195. Fabius Maximus says:

    #199 Cobbler

    That article is a piece of fluff, it is not a concession, it’s the way the country works. German labor law is a wonder. This is a country where overtime is effectively not allowed. If you have to work over, you have to take vacation to make it up. People disappear from the office for months at a time. If a company needs to increase production, they have to hire more workers. It is almost impossible to fire anyone and there are offices full of people reading newspapers.

    So yes they can open a plant and guarantee staff jobs for life, for once hired, never fired.

    Now the immigrant population is a different matter.

  196. chicagofinance says:

    The theme song to the Montklair Public School System….
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZ6UNrCZ4VE&feature=related

  197. cobbler says:

    fabius [204]
    Your claims are untrue. German labor laws had been changed quite a bit in the last 20 years, and yes it allows overtime. Besides, the article is not about reading the newspapers in the offices but about the blue-collar workforce that kicks a$$ of everyone else (except maybe Dutch and Swiss).

  198. Punch My Ticket says:

    Germany is booming because of the euro. There’s nothing like tying 250 million relatively unproductive workers in other countries into the same currency to make your own J6Ps (dunno what the German acronym would be) look good. If they hadn’t done that, the DM would be at $1.25 and Germans everywhere would be crying. Instead, it’s the Greeks and the Spaniards and the Irish.

  199. Reading this article makes me proud that I never bought a house anywhere in NJ! This state is absolutely ridiculously overpriced in every aspect. Seriously people, do you think everyone makes a half a million per year? Get over it! Cut your loses foreclose and move to another state. How much longer is the “but your close to the city” factor worth it. Who cares about the city. Then of course comes the argument about how great the shows are, the excellent restaurants, blah blah blah. I lived in Atlanta and can’t wait go back! There I am able to live better, in a nicer home, with great shows and in many cases better restaurants. AND GET THIS, (insert drum roll) ALL AT A FRACTION OF THE PRICE!!! Oh and by the way, the “you earn more here” is also an invalid statement, check your sources and you will see that income is comprable.

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