Who said the high-end was immune?

From Bloomberg:

Greenwich’s Priciest Homes Languish With Four Years of Supply

It’s been more than 500 days since Stanley Cheslock put his 26,000-square-foot Greenwich, Connecticut, “dream home” on the market for $17.95 million.

The house and its surrounding estate — custom built by Cheslock in 2003, with a movie theater and 3,700-bottle wine cellar — is waiting for a buyer who sees the current asking price, $15.95 million, as a bargain.

“It’s a steal,” said Cheslock, a co-founder of an investment firm, who has knocked almost 50 percent off the price he was asking when he first tried to sell the property five years ago. “It’s way underpriced.”

Homes priced at $10 million and above are accumulating on the market in Greenwich, a town about 30 miles (48 kilometers) north of Manhattan that’s known as the U.S. hedge fund capital. They’re moving so slowly that it would take more than four years to sell them all, the biggest backlog since at least 2004, according to Mark Pruner, an agent with Prudential Connecticut Realty. Wall Street’s greater emphasis on deferred compensation, in which a portion of an annual bonus will be paid in the future, has stifled demand, he said.

“Our market moves very closely with the financial markets,” Pruner, based in Greenwich, said in an interview. “Deferred compensation has totally hammered the over-$10 million market because people just aren’t getting large amounts of cash, and that market has traditionally been a cash market.”

Fifty-two houses in that price range were listed for sale as of May 19, according to Pruner. Four have sold this year and two are in contract. At that pace, it would take 52 months to sell the inventory, he said. If that backlog remains through the end of the year, it would be the biggest in his data going back to 2004.

“Previously, if you got a $10 million bonus, buying a $5 million house wasn’t that big a deal” said Pruner, who estimates that about half of all homebuyers in Greenwich work in the financial industry.

“If you get $20 million — $3 million in cash and 17 in deferred compensation — are you going to borrow another $2 million in cash to buy a house? I don’t think so,” he said.

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168 Responses to Who said the high-end was immune?

  1. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  2. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Banks Face $17 Billion in Suits Over Foreclosures

    State attorneys general told five of the nation’s largest banks on Tuesday they face a potential liability of at least $17 billion in civil lawsuits if a settlement isn’t reached to address improper foreclosure practices, according to people familiar with the matter.

    The figure doesn’t cover additional billions of dollars in potential claims from federal agencies such as the Department of Housing and Urban Development and the Justice Department. State and federal officials haven’t proposed a specific comprehensive settlement figure, but Tuesday’s discussions represented the first effort to formally quantify potential liability.

    Representatives of the nation’s largest banks met in individual meetings on Tuesday with state and federal officials designed to highlight the potential costs they will face if a settlement isn’t reached.

    Banks and federal officials have made halting progress over two months to settle allegations of abuses related to mortgage servicing, and the numbers floated Tuesday indicate that the two sides are still far apart on the size of the penalty.

    Banks have proposed a $5 billion settlement that would be used to compensate any borrowers previously wronged in the foreclosure process and provide transition assistance for borrowers who are ousted from their homes. Federal and state officials have dismissed that as insufficient. Some officials have pushed for a total price tag of more than $20 billion to resolve foreclosure-handling abuses that surfaced last fall.

    State attorneys general from all 50 states and the District of Columbia announced investigations last fall. Tuesday’s discussions highlighted the potential for lawsuits alleging unfair and deceptive practices if a settlement isn’t reached.

  3. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    Home Builders Still in the Woods

    The best number out of today’s report on sales of newly built homes is not the 7.3 percent bump up in signed contracts, it’s the drop in inventories to a 6.5 month supply.

    That number is based on a quicker sales pace and a drop of 5000 in the absolute number of newly built homes on the market.

    That volume is the lowest since at least 1963, according to Miller Tabak’s Peter Boockvar, who worries that the supply of existing homes is still simply too much for anyone to be touting the builders.

    “The best response on the part of builders is to shoot themselves in the foot for as long as they can financially stand, so the market can more quickly absorb the excess inventory of existing homes which make up most of the overall market,” writes Boockvar.

    Aristar’s JT Smith chimes in on the actual April sales number: “Unadjusted sales of 32k makes April 2011 tied for the worst April sales number in recorded history.”

    My concern is not over the inventory of newly built homes. I think it’s a big positive. My problem is the glut of bargain-priced REO (bank owned) homes against which the builders compete.

  4. Hobo With a Shotgun says:

    Gluteus (157, yesterday)-

    Everyone deserves to see this. Degeneracy at its finest.

    http://www.spike.com/video-clips/325ai1/repo-games-wallace-tries-to-keep-her-car-from-being-repod

    No one will be spared. No one.

  5. Hobo With a Shotgun says:

    Hope these Greenwich crooks get their houses stuffed up their arses.

  6. Hobo With a Shotgun says:

    If your 15.95mm home- that has failed to sell for five years- is such a screaming bargain, take it off the market and stay the fcuk in it.

    Bitch.

  7. Hobo With a Shotgun says:

    From Chris Fountain’s Greenwich RE blog, concerning the Bloomberg article on the trophy house pile-up. Evidently, the rich aren’t all that different when it comes to serial re-listing:

    “The one thing the reporter got wrong, and it’s not her fault because she had no access to the data misrepresented to her by the agents she interviewed, is the average days on market the $10 million plus homes endure. The agents told her 202, but that’s because they didn’t include the earlier listings that failed to sell and just reset the clock when a new broker came on board. If you do the research, of the 30 houses priced at $10 million + that sold between January 1, 2009 and today, the average DOM is 422.2 days, not 202.

    And if you want to be cruel and look at the 53 houses in that same category that have not sold, the DOM figure is 640 and counting.”

  8. Hobo With a Shotgun says:

    Think gold isn’t money? Think again.

    “Wonder why Europe is pressing so hard for Greece (and soon the other PIIGS) to collateralize its pre-petition loans on a Debtor in Possession basis? Here is your answer: “Yesterday’s unanimous agreement by the European Parliament’s Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs (ECON) to allow central counterparties to accept gold as collateral, under the European Market Infrastructure Regulation (EMIR), is further recognition of gold’s growing relevance as a high quality liquid asset. This vote reinforces market demand for a greater choice of assets that can be used as collateral to meet margin liabilities.” Luckily for Greece, it has 111.5 tons of gold in storage (somewhere at the New York Fed most likely). Looking down the road, Portugal has 382.5 tons, Spain 281.6, and Italy leads the pack with 2,451.8 tons.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/european-gold-confiscation-sceme-unfolds-european-parliament-approves-use-gold-collateral

  9. Hobo With a Shotgun says:

    crap…#9 moderated

  10. Hobo With a Shotgun says:

    The dreaded “confisc@tion” word…as it relates to gold.

  11. Lone Ranger says:

    Things would be different if Greenwich was 48 kilometers north of West Jackson Blvd.

  12. Hobo With a Shotgun says:

    Ranger, it’s all going to end in tears…no matter what.

  13. Hobo With a Shotgun says:

    OTOH, I get a feeling that the Hunt High is about to be shattered.

  14. Lone Ranger says:

    Hobo [13],

    Just a matter of time. Tonto says we will be moving higher but will probably have to go back to sign post 31, test/re-test, to make sure the foundation is solid.

  15. Hobo With a Shotgun says:

    Higher lows, higher highs; hi-ho, hi-ho, it’s off to work we go.

    We’ll probably get 5 margin hikes today.

  16. AG says:

    I can’t wait until QE2 ends. Its going to be better than Christmas.

  17. AG says:

    Gold already is the world reserve currency. It has won the battle it always wins. Now we just need to price it at its real value. Not too soon though. Daddy needs some more.

  18. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    A high end community I’ve been watching for years is Sands Point, NY. Lots of inventory, no sales that I could find for the last couple years. Check that. One sale on 3/29/2011:

    http://www.trulia.com/homes/New_York/Sands_Point/sold/21481806-7-Half-Moon-Ln-Sands-Point-NY-11050

  19. 3b says:

    Mr. Cheslock is the founder of an investment firm?? And yet he still does not understand markets. Scary.

  20. JJ says:

    sands point has super high taxes although it is the closest to NYC that offers acre plus lots on long island. plus port schools are nowhere good as nearby northshore, manhasset or great neck

  21. Hobo With a Shotgun says:

    3b (20)-

    There are all kinds of folks- at every income level- who understand the workings of markets…yet think that they and their homes are somehow immune to it all.

    I seem to be able to find 1-2 such people every week for the past five years.

  22. Hobo With a Shotgun says:

    freedy (21)-

    Somebody should sit that crew down at a round table, lay out a couple of six shooters, and settle this stuff by reenacting the opening scene of The Deer Hunter.

  23. 30 Year Realtor says:

    #22 Hobo – It truly is amazing how really smart, rational people lose all judgement about the value of their home. Emotion is a powerful force!

  24. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    In response to 20, Stu thought you were banned from council meetings?

  25. 3b says:

    #22 Understand, but still have to shake my head.

  26. 3b says:

    #24 30 Year: That is a big problem in my town, major denial , even as some people finally seem to be getting it, you still have others pricing their houses like it is 2005. I do not recall their being so many homes on the market in RE as there are now. We are coming to the end of the Spring selling season ( another month or so), and yet there are still 3 to 4 new listings coming on every week. Inventory is just backing up like a clogged drain.

  27. Shore Guy says:

    Win a Golden Ticket to putting your arm shoulder-deep into a cow.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/18/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-reunion_n_863446.html

    Where are those blasted Oompa Loompas when you need them to do real work, anyhow?

  28. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Greetings from the Del. Woke up to the news that Mark Haines at CNBC kicked the bucket. Will miss his “live from the financial capital of the galaxy.”

  29. Kettle1^2 says:

    EU: “Greek Eurozone Membership Is At Stake” And Greece Must Agree On Tough Measures Or Return To Drachma

    That sound be a fun chain of dominos for the other PIGS, especially since default is in the peoples best interest.

  30. Shore Guy says:

    “default is in the peoples best interest.”‘

    What a quaint notion. The real driver will be what is in individual politicians’ best intersts and the interests of their contributors and leash holders. Bark minister! Beg! Roll over! Vote the way I tell you.

  31. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    if Greece goes back to the drachma at least we won’t have the worst western currency, travel to a nice place in Europe would be cheap again

  32. sas3 says:

    Finance/political gurus here… Do you guys have some insight into why GOP is opposing Warren? Seems like they are going full steam ahead on this. Everything I’ve seen about her indicates that she is a fairly decent choice on behalf of consumers.

    Disclaimer: my current impression is that the PTB telling the GOP to play offense and dems to play the defense and the whole game is designed to keep Warren out? At least the dems are pretending to be for her… but could be part of a game!

  33. 3b says:

    #32 Greece back to the Drachma, Ireland back to the Punt, Italy back to the Lira!!!! Everything old is new again!!!!

  34. Happy Renter says:

    From the lead article:

    “It’s been more than 500 days since Stanley Cheslock put his 26,000-square-foot Greenwich, Connecticut, ‘dream home’ on the market … ‘It’s a steal,’ said Cheslock, a co-founder of an investment firm, ‘It’s way underpriced.’”

    You know, for the past 500 days I have been trying to sell some of my shares of Apple for $625 per share. I don’t understand why nobody has offered to buy it yet. It’s a steal. It’s way underpriced.

    I think we need a taxpayer-funded government program enable more people to realize the American Dream and own shares of Apple, particularly my shares. This will get the economy growing again.

  35. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    Why things will never change there are idiots in this state that think what the SC did yesterday was a good thing

    http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2011/05/nj_supreme_court_does_its_job.html

  36. #35 – sas3 – … Do you guys have some insight into why GOP is opposing Warren?

    Fortuitously NakedCapitalism had a post on this very subject today;

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/05/why-are-republicans-so-keen-to-persecute-elizabeth-warren.html

  37. Nice and very informative post. U should submit your article at qateq.com

  38. young buck says:

    Needed: Criminal investigation in Elizabeth

    Published: Monday, May 23, 2011

    The foul odor in Elizabeth these days cannot be blamed on oil refineries along the Turnpike. It is from the ethical rot created by the city’s Board of Education.

    Board members in Elizabeth routinely solicit political donations from teachers and other school employees. They are using the district’s 4,000 employees as their personal slush funds, building a heavy-handed political machine that is based on intimidation.

    That is sleazy at a minimum. It becomes criminal if employees are coerced into giving money by the threat of punishment or the promise of reward. And that is exactly what employees of the district say is happening, as staff writer Ted Sherman reported in The Sunday Star-Ledger.

    Several lawsuits making that charge have been quietly settled, with a convenient gag order attached. And several authoritative sources, including a former superintendent and a former principal, say that is precisely how the board does its business.

    “If you don’t buy tickets, you are not promoted to jobs you may want,” said Frank Cuesta, the former principal, now a city councilman. “You are basically shut out of the system, no matter how competent you are.”

    These are serious charges that merit a criminal investigation by U.S. Attorney Paul Fishman, or Attorney General Paula Dow, or both offices working in tandem.

    Their challenge will be to prove the coercion. A wink and nod are not enough. Investigators need to explicitly link the district’s treatment of an employee with his or her response to the request for money.

    It will come as no surprise if they find that smoking gun. Because judging by what we know of this board, its members have lost their ethical bearings entirely. The signs of this are familiar to anyone who follows New Jersey politics.

    Nepotism is one symptom. Sherman found that at least 20 district employees are relatives of current or past board members.

    The ringleader on this is Rafael Fajardo, a former board president who has six relatives on the payroll, including a sister who is a truant officer for preschool students, a job the state deemed pointless because preschoolers are not required to attend.

    Soliciting money from firms that do business with the district is another classic symptom, and the Elizabeth board embraces that practice as well.

    Fajardo won’t talk about any of this, and neither will most current board members. That, too, is a sign.

    Time to find out what these people are hiding. And for that, we need criminal investigators to do their work.

    http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2011/05/needed_criminal_investigation.html

  39. young buck says:

    A Message From Marie Munn, President of the Elizabeth Board of Education

    “It looks like payback” as the Star-Ledger has
    noted in a past editorial. We can look back with the
    benefit of 20-20 hindsight and know our suspicions
    and fears were justified. In the matter of Ted
    Sherman’s article on the Elizabeth Board of Education
    that is the case. Our concerns proved accurate.
    The damage to our educational system is done.
    Interestingly, someone was so pleased with the article
    they distributed the newspaper free of charge throughout Elizabeth.
    At this point, the most valuable exercise may be to point out our concerns with the
    methods used by the reporter.
    Consider the following,
    The quality of the sources relied upon should be a cause of great concern.
    Aside from the obvious use solely of retired and former employees, the Sherman story
    fails to point out some pretty pertinent facts.
    The four administrators quoted in the article were promoted in the system and retired as
    highly paid administrators, despite the fact that all four had disciplinary action and had initiated
    litigation against the Elizabeth Board of Education.
    Thomas Dunn, the former Superintendent who was placed in the job by his father, the
    mayor, was a prime example of the needed change due to inefficiency that stymied the progress
    of the school district. The Board non-renewed his contract as a result of the district not
    performing under his leadership. He retired at a superintendent’s salary.
    The reference to former Board member Eddie Branquinho fails to point out that
    Branquinho actually lost his campaign for re-election.
    A special area of concern was the heavy reliance on a so called anonymous source. We
    do know that one possible source boasted via a text message about the impending Sherman story.
    Missing of course in the Sherman account was that this individual is a convicted felon who
    threatened the Board because of their refusal to hire her, which was not permitted by law. Those
    text messages, with its anti-Semitic and anti-Hispanic remarks should be cause of concern for all
    of us. It also calls into question the credibility of this “source”.
    Covering The Real Story
    It is disconcerting that the positive aspects of the District’s progress were only included at
    the end of the story.
    Among the facts provided and ignored include test scores rising at our high schools. We
    now know through the Washington Post that our own EHS ranks now in the top 10% in the
    Country and No. 2 in the State of New Jersey.
    Alexander Hamilton Prep Academy, a below average school, is now 90% proficient in
    language arts.
    Devoid in the Star Ledger story is the fact that our cost per pupil has dropped to 2006
    levels. School taxes this year were not raised. Ted Sherman had been provided significant data
    as to the bevy of audits conducted by the State Department of Education during the Corzine
    years. Most significantly, the 2010 Legislative audit report demanded by Lesniak also resulted in
    a 100% clean bill of health. This is important because it is a point contested by the Board’s
    detractors.
    The political aspects of Sherman’s story are his own opinion, and in many cases factually
    inaccurate. Despite his focus on Marvelis Perreira for her fund raising efforts and her so called
    connections as implied by Sherman, she was recently laid off. The point is that no favoritism
    was shown to the very person that was focused in on by the investigative reporter. This is of
    course in contrast to the many supporters, family and friends of this party boss who continue to
    remain Board employees, many of them in administrative positions.
    Despite its national recognition and accolades, the Star Ledger has seen fit to do a
    political boss’ bidding and criticize the District, despite its educational successes. This may turn
    out to be a learning experience for all of us as to the tactics and motivation of this story. All of
    this is very reminiscent of a former Elizabeth Board of Education President having received a
    subpoena only days prior to another election held in Elizabeth. As they say, it’s déjà vu all over
    again.
    We think that the Star-Ledger got it right when they wrote the editorial “Looks Like
    Payback” on April 1, 2006. Taking on the political machinery of Ray Lesniak will always be met
    with a low blow challenge.
    That is why we categorically deny your subtitle. No one is or has been pressured to
    support any particular candidates.
    hc tarbbgcr
    EDITORIALS
    Looks like payback
    Saturday, April 01, 2006
    Excuse us for being skeptical, but Sen. Raymond Lesniak’s recent concern with the
    finances of the Elizabeth school district are a little hard to swallow. This week, the
    Democratic senator from Union County asked the Assembly Budget Committee, which
    started looking at state school aid figures, to scrutinize the finances of the Elizabeth
    district. He also asked the state Education Department to appoint a state monitor to
    oversee the district’s spending. Strange? It seems so.
    Ordinarily, senators are cheerleaders for towns in their districts, working overtime
    to guarantee that they get their fair share from the state plus some. In a remarkable
    reversal, Lesniak decided to do just the opposite. He seems to be inviting the state to
    hold back money originally slated for Elizabeth. If Lesniak were truly concerned with
    the public purse, we would applaud him. But we suspect this is not about a sudden
    attack of conscience.
    A more likely explanation is that Lesniak has decided to play hardball because the
    Elizabeth Board of Education dared to upset a land sale that Mayor Christian Bollwage
    - a Lesniak protégé – thought was a done deal. The city was going to sell a 4.1-acre
    tract to a politically connected developer at a bargain-basement price. The school board
    balked at the idea, saying the land was needed for a new vocational technical school.
    Nevertheless, the city council authorized the sale of the land for $520,000 – the same
    amount the city paid NJ Transit to buy the land. Appraisers say the site is worth more
    than $5 million.
    Turns out the developer, Vilu Construction, owned by Luis and Vivian Rodriguez,
    gave at least $5,000 to the Elizabeth mayor’s 2004 re-election campaign. The two
    owners also have given at least $2,000 to Lesniak.
    It may be that some of the issues raised by Lesniak have merit. What we fear is that this
    is not about dealing with mismanagement of public funds. It’s about payback. Lesniak
    seems to be out to punish the school board and by extension the taxpayers of Elizabeth.
    That’s as indefensible as the original multimillion-dollar giveaway to the developer.

    http://www.epsnj.org/education/page/download.php?fileinfo=U3RhdGVtZW50XzUtMjMtMTFfLV9Mb29rc19MaWtlX1BheWJhY2tfdG9nZXRoZXIucGRmOjo6L3d3dzEwL3NjaG9vbHMvbmovZWxpemFiZXRoL2ltYWdlcy9kb2NtZ3IvNDM5ZmlsZTIzNDEucGRm

  40. Shore Guy says:

    What was that about Deep Throat and following the money?

    http://gawker.com/5805267/how-to-respond-when-a-congressman-calls-you-a-liar

  41. Shore Guy says:

    dang. That is the wrong link. Will post later.

  42. Juice Box says:

    re # 35 – SaS3 -The new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau created under Dodd Frank is supposed to ensure that loans provide value and not landmines to borrowers. The banks don’t want another agency that has the power to create new rules cut into their cash flow of scams.

    Bank of America’s mouthpiece is their local congressman from South Carolina Rep. Patrick McHenry. He is now Wall Street’s “Employee of the Month.” for his attacks on Warren calling her a liar.

  43. The Original NJ Expat says:

    It’s been a long time since I’ve been to Sands Point, but I think they have 2 acre zoning. Everybody who works at City Hall is a Port Washington resident except the mayor. Last time I was there the town had just bought the Guggenheim estate/IBM Country club. A woman who works for the town took me around Sands Point including the Village Club just purchased from IBM. Visible only from the country club was a ~3 bedroom two story guest house on an abutting property, set back in the woods. Turns out the owner had built it on his estate some time back in the 70′s without pulling any permits or paying any taxes on the structure. They were still in negotiations over the back taxes at that time, this was probably ’97 or so. Village taxes were ridiculous back then, most of them in the $30-$40K range.

    JJ says:
    May 25, 2011 at 9:13 am

    sands point has super high taxes although it is the closest to NYC that offers acre plus lots on long island. plus port schools are nowhere good as nearby northshore, manhasset or great neck

  44. young buck says:

    From Elizabeth BOE President post above: “We now know through the Washington Post that our own EHS ranks now in the top 10% in the Country and No. 2 in the State of New Jersey.”

    Fact check. Elizabeth High School was recently been broken up into 5 seaparate stand alone high schools. What the BOE now conveniently refers to as “Elizabeth High School” is in fact the gifted & talented school.

  45. Lone Ranger says:

    “#32 Greece back to the Drachma, Ireland back to the Punt, Italy back to the Lira!!!! Everything old is new again!!!!”

    3b,

    Everything that dies someday comes back.

  46. pain (38)-

    These judges deserve nothing better than to be executed like the traitors they are.

    Naturally, they will all sit on the bench until the day they grow feeble or die of old age.

    This state is screwed. Last one out…turn off the lights.

  47. tosh (40)-

    Repugs oppose Warren because she isn’t in on the giant bank robbery or the conspiracy to hide it. They are trying to rout out every last honest person in DC.

    And it shouldn’t take long.

  48. brian says:

    Long-time lurker, first time caller here…

    The blog has offered me invaluable knowledge over the years. Thank you, all!

    After holding off buying a home for many years, my fiancée and I are finally ready to plant some roots and buy our first home. We are in the very early stages of our search but have come across a house we both like very much. Based on what I’ve seen from pictures and doing a few drive-bys, the home needs a lot of work in terms of updating (kitchen, bathrooms, floors, landscaping, etc).

    From what I was able to gather, it is an estate sale and has been on the market for well over 90 days. The price has been dropped once back in February (8% drop).
    Even with that drop, I feel that the list price is still about 20% too high based on recent sales and current inventory in this town and neighboring towns. Now I’m not a professional so my estimates could be completely off but I think I’m in the ballpark. A similar house on the same street just sold for 14% less than the list price of this home and it was completely updated throughout (granite, hardwoods, SS appliances) and was 150 sq.ft larger. Also, a home with the same exact layout and condition in a neighboring town is currently on the market for about 23% less than the home we like. Full disclosure: taxes are approximately $2k more per year on this home. For a variety of reasons, we prefer the one with the higher list price (25% larger lot, about 10 mins closer to work, etc)

    We have not been working with a buyer’s agent nor have we contacted the listing agent for a walk-through as we decide the best way to proceed. OK now on to my question: Do you think we should work directly with the listing agent or should we find a buyer’s agent to negotiate the best deal for us? My thoughts are that if we work with the listing agent she may be more apt to convincing her clients to accept the more realistic price since she would receive the whole commission. On the other hand, we are first time buyers who aren’t experienced with this process and having someone work for our best interests would be beneficial.

    Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

  49. Juice Box says:

    re # 50 – Hobo Dems are trying to buy her off too. They want her to go back to Mass and run for Senate instead of vying for the Director Job at the new agency. The only hope she has of getting the job is a recess appointment from Obama, so she might as well go home since Harry Reid will probably trip up any chance of a recess appointment.

  50. NJGator says:

    Pain 25- Stu has put himself in self imposed exile. When presented with a brick wall, some people continue to bang their head into it. We’ve decided to turn around and walk away. 4 more weeks!

  51. 3b says:

    #53 I did the same in my town; simply impoassible to have a rational discussion with the elected govt/BOE folks and residents in general, just deep deep denial. So this long time resident will be leaving.

  52. Hey there just wanted to give you a brief heads up and let you know a few of the pictures aren’t loading properly. I’m not sure why but I think its a linking issue. I’ve tried it in two different web browsers and both show the same outcome.

  53. juice (53)-

    I wish she would walk away from DC and publicly excoriate them all as liars and bank robbers. However, her biggest flaw is not really understanding that these people are pure evil.

  54. gator (54)-

    Much like junkies who resist all attempts by friends to help them get off the needle, Fried and this band of clowns resent the hell out of you and Stu and are probably thrilled to see you leaving.

  55. 3b (55)-

    Hope we live to see the day that voting with feet is replaced by voting with bullets.

  56. 3b says:

    #57 That is what they want, if you do not like what is going on, you have too choices stay silent or leave. Anyone who disagrees, who dis agrees with the world view of the powers that be and their supporters must be silenced. It is the same way in that special place where prices have increased 26% from last year.

  57. I look at a place like the Peoples’ Republic and have to figure there are scores of municipalities all over the US that are as bad, or even worse, in their complete fiscal incompetence and denial.

    Put them all together (like giving weapons, keys and lighters to a zoo full of rabid monkeys), and I think Meredith Whitney’s muni collapse call is a lead-cinch lock.

  58. JJ says:

    Nope, towns will charge students to be on football teams and clubs well before a default. Most munis technically default. Rarely does principal and interest not get paid back. Plus you can’t go to bk court just cause you want to. Most bks are unfinished projects. Can’t say oh we don’t want to charge for drivers ed or have half day kindergarten or raise property taxes so our school bonds are defaulting.

    Hobo With a Shotgun says:
    May 25, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    I look at a place like the Peoples’ Republic and have to figure there are scores of municipalities all over the US that are as bad, or even worse, in their complete fiscal incompetence and denial.

    Put them all together (like giving weapons, keys and lighters to a zoo full of rabid monkeys), and I think Meredith Whitney’s muni collapse call is a lead-cinch lock.

  59. Al Mossberg says:

    54.

    3B,

    Did you try appealing your property taxes? I didnt even have to goto court and they knocked 100k off my assessment. I agree with your sentiment. Im getting the f_ck out of Jersey ASAP.

  60. sas3 says:

    Juice, I think Obama will do a recess appointment if everything else fails. Otherwise, it would be a major let down by him and adds to the letdowns of gitmo, renditions, patriot act, W’s tax cuts, etc.

    On the other hand, if he appoints Warren, he will probably not gain any additional supporters (even from teabaggers that are being badly teabagged by banks and credit card companies). May be the teabaggers don’t care about things getting better for them — that are just happy if others suffer more than they do.

  61. Nicholas says:

    These judges deserve nothing better than to be executed like the traitors they are.

    While I respect that you have the freedom to say what you like, I don’t think that this is appropriate for a public forum. I don’t know these judges, their rulings have no impact on me, and I don’t even know their names. I don’t like that you called for their execution and think that this behavior treads dangerously near where I would consider it reportable to authorities.

  62. 3b says:

    #63 Just gonna move.

  63. relo says:

    60: I guess all the foreclosures in Greenwich are what’s holding up the market there too.

  64. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    Nicholas, before the era of multiculturalism and political correctness, that is what happend to traitors.

    If you live in NJ it does effect you even if you don’t have children or own a home. The fact of the matter is judges should judge, while legislators legislate. I’ll reiterate my position from yesterday if Christie had b*lls he would tell the justices if you are so quick to deepen the public into debt than you go out an collect the taxes on them which you mandate.

    Last time I checked taxation without representation. I.E. legislating from the bench started a minor tussel between the folks who settled here and Britain. Maybe you have heard of it?

  65. Jersey Girl says:

    Nicholas – 65.
    I agree wholeheartedly and would add this comment is just as unnecessary:
    “Hope we live to see the day that voting with feet is replaced by voting with bullets.”

    Comments, such as these, take away from discussions by suggesting violence is an acceptable means to resolving political differences. Which is not the general consensus here.

  66. 3b says:

    #60 There is a place that nestles gently upon the green and gracious banks of the noble Hackensack River, where prices are up 26% from last year, and as such the information is N/A.

  67. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    Jersey Girl/Nicholas

    If you think that when the somnolent populace in this country figures out they have been buggered up their respective cornholes by the politicians of this once great land that voting booths are going to placate them, you are sadly mistaken.

    The coming storm is going to make the aftermath of Katrina seem like a schoolyard dust up.

  68. pain (68)-

    Thank you. My sentiments exactly. We are done as a nation if we don’t quickly develop a thirst for refreshing the tree of liberty.

    And those of us who know our famous quotes know you don’t refresh that tree with water.

  69. 30 Year Realtor says:

    Brian #51 – With agents you never know what you are going to get. Listing agent could be a consummate professional or a friend of the seller? A buyer’s agent who someone refers is a known quantity and has allegiance to you, not the seller.

    As far as value goes, wasn’t much in your comment that I can go on to offer any guidance. If you provide an address and it is in GSMLS, NJMLS or Hudson MLS, I can do a little research and offer some opinion.

    Crossing town lines can be very deceiving when choosing comps. Apples to apples is always best.

  70. Alas, I fear that far too many of us have been mentally castr@ted to ever gather the numbers necessary to foment a real revolution.

    Anybody know Kirstie Alley’s current dress size?

    Anybody willing to bet more Amerikans know this than know the name of even one of their senators?

  71. Maybe we’ll go to the ultra-violence when our shit TV and HFCS are taken away.

  72. Ray Lewis says crime will go up if the NFL doesn’t play this fall.

    He should know.

  73. JJ says:

    Yes I do, but I won’t tell you. However, the same dress was used last night as from her first dance and the dress was taken in 38 inches for her to wear it again..

    I thought the drunk guy from Long Beach Long Island was funny stuff on the Bachelorette.

    Hobo With a Shotgun says:
    May 25, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    Alas, I fear that far too many of us have been mentally castr@ted to ever gather the numbers necessary to foment a real revolution.

    Anybody know Kirstie Alley’s current dress size?

    Anybody willing to bet more Amerikans know this than know the name of even one of their senators?

  74. Kettle1^2 says:

    Nicholas,

    The threat of violence to government and government officials was part of the original intent of this nation ( i.e second amendment) in that if they continually overstepped their bounds against the peoples wishes the people had the means and ability to enforce their will .
    We as a nation have just gotten too used to having extra lives and the ability to save our “game” when engaging in our redirected violence.

  75. All Hype says:

    Pain (68):
    The amount of tax money the 31 districts receive due to the Abbott legislation is jaw dropping. I had to read it 3 times for it to sink in. I can see this being nothing more that a payoff for the Democrats to thier constituants in the cities they represent. I actually feel sorry for the rest of the teachers in the other 350+ school districts because they are about to get totally cornholed with cuts.

  76. Jersey Girl says:

    Painhrtz 71.

    Well then I hope you’re stock piling ammo and taking full advantage of ShopRite’s can-can deals. I recommend the carrots. Vitamin C prevents scurvy. Don’t forget your gold coins – you may need them to barter with when the printing presses finally run out of ink. Oh, and make sure you disconnect from the grid completely – starting right now – because, they are watching you! When the government unleashes their tax funded apocalypse, it’s the unsavory IP addresses they will be going after first. Since they’re probably rounding up all the revolutionary freedom loving patriots as I type, you may want to start unplugging your devices immediately. Leave no trace behind.

    I hope you like squirrel. I hear they’re high in protein.

  77. Kettle1^2 says:

    Jersey girl

    No need to go that far. Look at Argentina or parts of Brazil. That is where this road leads. Although in both places a small stockpile of food, gold and guns is advisable.

  78. Kettle1^2 says:

    It is also unfortunate that the problem is social and not financial. money isnt the fix and wont particularly help until the social situation is addressed.

  79. Way too late on that call, Jersey Girl. We became Third World about a decade ago.

    At least the best 3W countries don’t pretend that they are not hellholes. Hell, Argentina’s almost made it stylish.

  80. Michael Sydor says:

    80: Everything animal is “protein” – rats, rabbits and road kill.

    Just don’t eat the squirrel brains. It’s a southern delicacy, for what-ever gawd-awful reason, but is know to cause Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease – for which I think dying from radiation might be a better choice – than dying from your brain rotting… – if only quicker!

    Known your prions. Don’t feed ruminants to ruminants. Don’t eat squirrel brains. Eat safe.

  81. AG says:

    Argentina it is. Only the victims of crime are unarmed in post collapse Argentina. I can’t wait for the doom to start in earnest. It will be like watching the morons that cry and shake in fear after witnessing minor doom. Wait until major doom strikes. Americans are so woefully unprepared for the upcoming nightmare. Too busy stuffing their face at the walmart cafeteria.

  82. vodka (82)-

    You mean festering cities like Paterson- full of idiots and illegals who crank out children faster than bacteria multiply- have social problems?

    Obviously, the way to fix the problems is to money-bomb the skools so that they have Sprinturf, wireless, laptops, interactive teaching aids, etc. The excess can get sucked up by the unions and the mob…while the kids all go home, stuff their pieholes with starch and HFCS and zombie out in front of the TV/video games.

    Meanwhile, we can drag down the kids of the people who fund this whole circus.

    Then, all will be equal, and all outcomes will be both equal and pre-ordained.

  83. In the end, the only choice left us will be to feed the gubmint beast or bow down in supplicance to it.

  84. Jersey Girl says:

    81. Kettle1^2
    Jersey girl

    No need to go that far. Look at Argentina or parts of Brazil. That is where this road leads. Although in both places a small stockpile of food, gold and guns is advisable.

    I go to Buenos Aires every year. It’s a beautiful city in a vibrant country. What about Argentina are you referring to? It’s economy has bounced back exponentially since it’s attempt at pegging their currency to the dollar resulting in the 2001 collapse. Since then, they defaulted on their loans from the IMF, dumped that money into their economy and are emerging stronger. Brazil? Their economy has been booming for years now. It’s the largest economy in South America. Just look at ICAP’s acquisitions there if you have any doubts. Of course there are parts that are underdeveloped just as there are underdeveloped areas here in the United States so I’m unclear about what your narrative was meant illuminate.

  85. Kettle1^2 says:

    Hobo 86

    while the kids all go home, stuff their pieholes with starch and HFCS and zombie out in front of the TV/video games.

    We dont have a program to provide taxpayer funded Ipad 2′s to all of these poor students????

  86. Happy Renter says:

    [88] I think he’s referring to the murder rates, the need for private armed guards, swaths of territory where the government exercises little to no authority and people live or die at the mercy of drug lords and gangs, and the corruption that infests those societies from top to bottom.

    I don’t think he was referring to tango, Argentine reds, feijoada, World Cup 2014, or anything you will find on the gringo trail.

  87. A.West says:

    New Jersey has a total private sector labor force of 3.2 million. It has a public sector labor force of 0.62 million. (according to NJBIA.)
    The NJ leeches must think that they’ve latched onto a huge bull that will hardly notice the drain. Unfortunately for them, it’s more like a sick hamster. $500mn more down the drain? That’s only another $150/yr taken from the productive to the perpetually failing. Camden and Newark combined were spending about $1.5bn, $23k/student, to produce massive failure. So everyone in NJ with a private sector job is already paying on average $1,500 per year to support this institutional failure.
    Stick em up, honkey, I want $2000 next year.

  88. Jersey Girl says:

    Happy Renter says:
    May 25, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    [88] I think he’s referring to the murder rates, the need for private armed guards, swaths of territory where the government exercises little to no authority and people live or die at the mercy of drug lords and gangs, and the corruption that infests those societies from top to bottom.

    I don’t think he was referring to tango, Argentine reds, feijoada, World Cup 2014, or anything you will find on the gringo trail.

    Sorry, no gringo here. Obviously you have no idea of what you’re talking about. If you’re going to make elaborate, hyperbolic statements, you should back them up. By the way, ‘gringo’ is a Mexican idiom. Argentina doesn’t use or know that word.

  89. A.West says:

    Hobo,
    American will all be rich – with an unlimited supply of HFCS and cereal, everyone will qualify to be a morbidly obese reality tv star on disability, yielding oceans of wealth flowing in from mobile twitter and facebook posts and endorsements that everyone will send to everyone else. We can eat, spend and text ourselves rich, and easily afford a huge public sector and comfortable retirements for all.
    Soylent Green has already been invented – it’s called the welfare state. All those transfers – they’re eating people, or at least converting the sweat of other men’s brow into government cheese (and everything else).

  90. AG says:

    The kids from Camden and Newark don’t need more money. What they need is a barge to send them back to Haiti.

  91. JJ says:

    Yesterday watching DWTS, Oprah’s last show and the new season of the Bachelorette all in one day left me emotionally drained.

    What is this stuff about squirl brains?

  92. Essex says:

    Jersey Girl just pwned you two.

  93. Happy Renter says:

    [92] They don’t use the word “vibrant” in Argentina either. What’s your point?

    I didn’t make any statements that require backing up. If you aren’t aware of the international statistics on murder rates or the corruption index, look ‘em up yourself. Angola has some “beautiful” and “vibrant” aspects as well. So what?

    Brazil’s economy is the largest in South America? Um, yeah and what’s the largest country in South America?

    There are many places in the world where the economy is “booming” but I would not want to live there, nor do I want to see the U.S. becoming more like them.

  94. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    Hype hearing it already out here in tawny Morris county

    Jersey Girl been to both Argentina and Brazil. Just because the fruit looks great on the outside doen’t mean it is not rotten to the core. The Ivory Coast, Lebanon and Somalia have great beaches too. Lady, I know where your trying to go with the whole militia thing, when the government starts coming for people like me you should really be worried. while I may disagree with you and respect your opinion in disagreeing with me I should not fear the government the government should fear me. As it is theoretically by the people and for the people.

    By the way squirrel is fine, but only the hind quarters when pressure cooked over medium heat. when the supermarket runs out of your favorite hormone injected swine or bovine I’ll still be eating well.

  95. JJ says:

    WOW, someone I am mentoring told me they were about to make an important decision and said before I do I always go WWJD? I go you mean What Would Jesus Do?, anyhow person goes no way!! He ended up on a Cross, I mean What Would John Do?

    AHHHH the joys of helping the youth of today!

  96. Barbara says:

    bad link, nevermind

  97. 3b says:

    If the link below is any indication, than BA in Argentina is a mixed bag at best.

    http://www.batips.com/need-to-know/crime-in-buenos-aires/

  98. Barbara says:

    Yeah, Argentina is mostly European, specifically italian, german, spanish decent. Its “gringo” central.

    Jersey girl, I want to visit Argentina and hike spend some time in Patagonia soon. I have to wait for my youngest to get bigger and saner.

  99. Barbara says:

    3b, is Chicago safe? Detroit? Oakland? Crime is returning to *gasp* Manhattan in the form of flash mobs, the new wilding. America has the SHITTIEST cities. Let me say that again, America has the SHITTIEST cities in the industrialized west.

  100. Barbara says:

    Philadelphia, DC – holy hells, all of it.

  101. A.West says:

    Argentina just keeps going lower. Before the Perons’ statism, it was nearly as wealthy as Europe. By the 90′s it was considered a “promising” emerging market. Now it’s been dropped from “emerging” and is now a “frontier” market.
    Argentina’s economy is like a formerly pretty lady, who once had lots of rich boyfriends. Then she turned into a paid escort. Now she’s a crack wh0re with missing teeth and stretch marks. Argentina’s vice is to always elect a politician who promises something for nothing.

  102. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    Barbara don’t disagree Detroit, Philly, Oakland, Memphis these are places I do not like to go to. Oh and forgot DC

  103. Barbara says:

    Here’s that SNL skit
    Strauss at Rikers, I thought of this board and loled

    http://www.hulu.com/watch/243591/saturday-night-live-dominique-strauss-kahn-cold-open#s-p2-sr-i1

  104. Jersey Girl says:

    98. Painhrtz – Salmon of Doubt says:
    As it is theoretically by the people and for the people.

    It’s declarative not theoretical. In other words we absolutely live in a democracy not, we think we live in a democracy. The problem isn’t that you and I disagree on premise, we disagree on approach. For me the issue isn’t government per se but the special interest that has co-opted those representatives within our government. If you believe in the words ‘by the people, for the people’ then you believe that WE are the government. Which indeed we are. Then you, all of us, should realign our frustrations and redirect them where they truly belong. Not with each other but rather with the big money think tanks funding divisive campaigns for the sole purpose of dismantling the very democracy (you and me) they find have too much power. That means understanding the tactics they use to divide us. Language being the most profound.

    You and I are on the same page. It’s the semantics that have us chasing each other’s tails. As we point fingers and sass one another, the charlatans are freely pillaging and laughing all the way to the bailed out banks.

    Until we collectively stop the bickering and lay blame where it belongs, (2 billion dollars a week on 2 quagmires is a start) this is the best we’re ever gonna get.

  105. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    Thanks Babs, I heart you sometimes

  106. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    Jersey girl on that I will agree with you, when civil discourse left the political arena so did the hope of any meaningful politician being elected. It is also the reason folks like Hobo, myself and few others look at history and know this is not going to end without blood on someones hands

  107. Jersey Girl says:

    Barbara says:
    May 25, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Yeah, Argentina is mostly European, specifically italian, german, spanish decent. Its “gringo” central.

    Jersey girl, I want to visit Argentina and hike spend some time in Patagonia soon. I have to wait for my youngest to get bigger and saner.

    You should. If you hike Mendosa is divine. La Plata is a must. The people are really friendly and they LOVE Americans.

  108. Happy Renter says:

    [108] Awesome SNL skit. “You know I got no love for Portugal …”

    But I visit Portugal every year and it’s such a beautiful and vibrant country …

    ;-)

  109. chicagofinance says:

    You rag on Chicago and Philly?…you are a dimwit….

    Barbara says:
    May 25, 2011 at 4:25 pm
    Philadelphia, DC – holy hells, all of it.

  110. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    Nom – the future for the up to their eyeballs newly minted law types? I would rather be in debtors prison than Wheeling, WV

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/At-WellPaying-Law-Firms-a-nytimes-1899956294.html?x=0&.v=1

  111. Jersey Girl says:

    Painhrtz – Salmon of Doubt says:
    May 25, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    Jersey girl on that I will agree with you, when civil discourse left the political arena so did the hope of any meaningful politician being elected. It is also the reason folks like Hobo, myself and few others look at history and know this is not going to end without blood on someones hands

    See, it just seems to me that you and your cohorts get off on the rhetoric alone. That is where your camp completely loses me. There are plenty of steps in between coarse correcting and revolution being overlooked and I can’t help but come to the conclusion that violence for violence sake is at the root of your disdain. There doesn’t seem to be any meat to any of your arguments besides imagery of blood shedding and I’m trying hard to understand.

    Anyway, I would hate to see this forum, that’s a home for much needed discussions on real estate, devolve into a survivalist conspiracy black hole.

  112. Barbara says:

    ChiFi,
    Outside of your Philly hangs on Pine Street, what do you love about it? Center city closes down after 5pm. Historical parts have no street level retail and also close down after 5. There are some restaurants and some sad 80s clubs and Northern Liberties have been “up and coming” since 1987. It has yet to arrive. Fishtown? Lord knows it tries to be another Brooklyn but we all know that Kensington isn’t going to allow that. As for the other 80% of the city, from the Great NE down to the airport to Upper Darby, its a crime strewn no mans land of burned out husks, crack dens and endless welfare. So Chifi, tell me all you know about Philly, bitch.

  113. willwork4beer says:

    Sitting outside enjoying some guitar music and a Yards Brawler (Pugilist Style Ale). Seemed to be most appropriate given the recent tone of this thread. Cheers, NJNREReport people. Its a beautiful day in the neighborhood out here in Lower Cowpie.

  114. Pat says:

    I miss Philly every day.

    They don’t even know how cool they are.

  115. Pat says:

    Clot, I watched a few minutes of the repo game vid.

    What was the issue? That chick was pretty classy.

    Well, for me.

  116. Shore Guy says:

    “from the Great NE down to the airport to Upper Darby, its a crime strewn no mans land of burned out husks, crack dens and endless welfare”

    And the downside is?

  117. sas3 says:

    Jersey Girl… Your smack downs are impressive!

  118. Shore Guy says:

    Does anyone here NOT see a difference between these folks and those of us pulling in between $200,000/yr and $500,000/yr? Calling reasonably-successful hard-working professionals and business owners “rich” is an absurdity when one looks at folks who are, without question, rich.

  119. New in FL says:

    People in Brazil – at least the parts I know – call us yanks ‘gringos’. I haven’t been to the far south, where culturally and geographically they are much closer to Argentina. I can’t comment at all about Argentina.

  120. pain (112)-

    Show me an incidence in history where a people took- or, re-took- control of their own country without bloodshed.

    In case Jersey Girl needs some time, I’ll be here all weekend.

  121. jg (117)-

    Way too late for that. I’ve got a grenade launcher, a Mossberg .500, several rifles, a Cabelaload of .223 and all the physical shiny I’ll need for both everyday trade and major purchases.

    And, compared to some others here, I’m a lightweight.

    “Anyway, I would hate to see this forum, that’s a home for much needed discussions on real estate, devolve into a survivalist conspiracy black hole.”

  122. pat (121)-

    Nice to see you’re settling into MD.

  123. Jersey Girl says:

    Hobo With a Shotgun says:
    May 25, 2011 at 7:24 pm
    pain (112)-

    Show me an incidence in history where a people took- or, re-took- control of their own country without bloodshed.

    In case Jersey Girl needs some time, I’ll be here all weekend.

    You should consider turning off the computer and going for a walk. That may part of the problem. Regarding your question about retaking control…NY’s 26th district just voted in their first Democrat in 50 years because they were not feeling the draconian approach the Republicans were offering. That’s what happens when people get off their asses and vote. On average, 30% of the electorate exercise their right to vote. That. Is. Shameful. Until we have 100% turnout and nothing’s changed, I’ll stick to a democratic form of revolution over a violent one.

  124. sas3 says:

    Clot #126,

    Show me an incidence in history where a people took- or, re-took- control of their own country without bloodshed.

    Egypt, Tunisia, India (though the Britishers gave us one big break-up shot through partition), South Africa. More infrequent than what should be…

  125. Pat says:

    Clot, I miss you.

    And mostly everybody else around these parts ;)

    I once made a recommendation here that kinda sorta was implemented and now I’m neck deep in the stuff. Part-time, of course.

    Can’t visit as much as I’d like.

  126. Kettle1^2 says:

    Shore

    reactor 1 at 204 SV/hr. That is lethal in about 3 min & indicative of a fissioning core, not just transient recriticalities. Too bad the core is fissioning in the cement catch basin below the reactor vessel.

    I wonder if we get to see a real steam explosion as the melted corium hits the water table.

  127. JG (130)-

    That’s just a congressional district voting themselves another two years of bread and circuses. Of course, when they end up having austerity shoved up their arses anyway, I bet the hunters among them might get a little itchy for action.

    I don’t walk. I run. Thanks for your exercise advice, though.

  128. sastry (131)-

    South Africa? I guess a few generations of bloodshed as a result of apartheid and de facto genocide don’t count, since it wasn’t the blacks on the giving end.

    Sheesh.

  129. vodka (133)-

    Me like when things go boom.

  130. 3b says:

    #130India?? Lets not forget the slaughter after independence

  131. Shore Guy says:

    “reactor 1 at 204 SV/hr. ”

    Kettle,

    That is soooooo last month. Who cares. Now is time to focus on important things like, where was Michelle Obama’s hat and the loss of Winfree on daytime TV.

  132. 3b says:

    South Africa?? No violence??

  133. 3b says:

    #129 Voting?? We voted no on our school budget, and they passed it anyhow.

  134. d2b says:

    Barb:
    Greetings from Philly (well three miles outside of it). I love it here. I don’t want to waste you time telling you why except to say that I try to avoid “up and comming”.

    I find it curious that New Yorkers are always quick to point out that everything falls short if NY. Fishtown doesn’t want to be Brooklyn. Philadelphia does not want to be NY.

    If you do make it down, take your little ones to Smith Playground. The playhouse just reopened and they did an amazing job. Try to go during the week because it gets crowded on weekends.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9cK3YxjvFg&feature=related

  135. Neanderthal Economist says:

    “I’ll stick to a democratic form of revolution over a violent one.”
    Jersey girl, I agree. Were moving forward not backward. Computer viruses, social networking and boolean operators will replace guns, riots and gold. Someone needs to tell that to the survivalists so they can stop hoarding canned goods.

  136. kettle1^2 says:

    Shore

    For references points. The close proximity to the exposed core at Chernobyl was reading 300 SV/hr and the fuel fragments laying in the open after the explosion were reading about 200 SV/hr

  137. Barbara says:

    d2b,
    Its where I grew up. I’m not a native New Yorker (I’m in NJ) and your assuming the comparison. I lived in Philly. People who like philly live outside of it and venture in on the weekends, or drive in for work/school and get out before sundown. Been there, done that. I also lived north of Spring Garden for a few. Its not a livable city. It just isn’t. Each neighborhood is like a compound, walk off it it (three blocks?) and you better run to the next compound.

  138. Pat says:

    Barbara, I worked downtown for seven years from 7 am until 9 pm almost every night, and lived w/in a half an hour drive of downtown Philly for almost 20.
    Carol’s in Fishtown was my best place for crabs on Fridays.
    The Greek diner near 20th was my lunch hang.
    I’ve been mugged on ramps, taken down, scared sh/tless in West Philly, and still feel like Philly has it.
    The docs at HUP saved my sister. She doesn’t have much left inside of her neck, but she’s walking.
    I still have my 267.
    You’re missing something.

  139. Pat says:

    Maybe I’m just not a nice person.

  140. Barbara says:

    Pat,
    that half hour drive makes all the difference in the world.

  141. 3b (137)-

    History is written by the wusses.

  142. 3b (139)-

    I guess Robben Island was just a rumor.

  143. babs (144)-

    Jonathan Franzen pegged Philly just right in The Corrections.

  144. pat (146)-

    Maybe it was you who pelted Santa Claus with snowballs.

    Then again, I can’t sit through anything at Franklin Field on the nicest day of spring. Can’t imagine watching the Iggles on a frozen December day in that outdoor toilet.

    “Maybe I’m just not a nice person.”

  145. Pat’s or Geno’s?

    All other questions in Philly are moot.

  146. Barbara says:

    Hobo,
    have not read it but my friends are always talking about it, I guess I know why. Will have to read it.

  147. Belarus goes hockey stick (in all the wrong ways). And it’s not Bobby Clarke’s stick.

    Or even Eric Lindros’.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/images/BYR.jpg

  148. Barbara says:

    Love all the local flavor, its just got some many strikes against it that it cannot be navigated. I have a simple criteria for when a city is truly great… and that is, can you raise a family in it safely with a reasonable quality of life? Before you scoff, understand how we in the US have been conditioned for decades to see cities as places of fun and vice only. This just isn’t the case in other western countries.

  149. Barbara says:

    some = so

  150. babs (153)-

    I’ve spent a good deal of the past two years ODing on Franzen and John Foster Wallace.

    Those two will f-up your mind faster than smoking wet with angel dust and reading Kafka upside down.

  151. babs (155)-

    The best way to think of Philly is as a target-rich environment.

    A great reality show would be to set a sociopath loose after dark with lots of sidearms and just film what happens next.

  152. d2b says:

    Barb:
    All cities have warts. Since you lived here you would no that most people move out of the city because of schools and taxes, not safety. We wanted to be close to the city which is why we are here after living in the city for 30 years. The reality is that we save about $10,000 in taxes in Montgomery County.
    Bad things happen everywhere. It’s unfortunate that most major cities can’t stop the blight. Government has too much graft and sometimes things have to sour before private money can rebuild. Some areas will never come back.
    The comparison comment was all yours, saying Fishtown tries to be Brooklyn. It does not.
    Truth is that I can’t wait to move away from the Philadelphia suburbs when our sons are grown. I want a few years in a warmer climate. I find that the Northeast is too cold in general. I’m happier when I’m warm and I want to be outside for 12 months. Maybe Mitchell can find me a rental in Wilmington, NC….

  153. The only thing Mitchell can do is dig shallow graves.

  154. Barbara says:

    d2b,
    Google Fishtown and Brooklyn. Its not a secret.

  155. Barbara says:

    First exposure to Kafka, Beckett, Sartre was my freshman year. All within two months. It actually did set off a depression. Sartre wasn’t so bad.

  156. Al Mossberg says:

    158,

    I would just rent and try out new places. This would partially fulfill America’s destiny as a nomadic and agrarian society. Think Lenape Indians only with cars.

  157. Pat says:

    So I now live in idyllic MD.

    The lady down the street came over pointing her finger at me at 7:30 am on Saturday morning.

    I’d just gotten my coffee and gone outside to sit and enjoy the morning dew before getting all dolled up for an event.

    So, she screams that she hates me and accuses me of infiltrating her house to accuse her of hitting a child with a baseball bat.

    “What baseball bat? I hate baseball..I’m a baseball widow!”

    She tells me she has a man in the house willing to testify that I was in her home, threatening her.

    I tell her, look, hon, I was just on the pot with my normal circulars, and that if I was in her house she wouldn’t be “walk-ready.” So she flounces away to try to find her meds.

    It ain’t better anywhere else.

  158. Barbara says:

    I bet its better than 20th and Washington.

  159. sas3 says:

    3b/clot…

    The South Africans triumphed against the horrible violence and didn’t give in to revenge mania. Ind/Pak won the independence in a peaceful manner but got suckered by the British-engineered partition. In both cases, the “people” took back their country without much violence from their side, and in case of Ind/Pak, they went crazy after that.

    There is some good to learn from the non-violent struggle. Setting aside moral aspects, and effectiveness, it is probably the only approach that has a non-zero chance of success, especially in times when a SWAT team can pump in 60 bullets into a military veteran because they suspect he may have some drugs, and when a sheriff comes in with tanks and an also-ran film star to check on a hen farm. There is no way to prepare for that at an individual level. Things may also get very erratic if there is a large community where everyone has enough ammo to shoot the whole community hundred times over.

  160. Confused In NJ says:

    So far, 2011 has proved a year destined for the tornado record books.

    Nearly 1,200 tornadoes have swarmed the United States this year, according to preliminary numbers from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). Four of these storms have been rated at the highest tornado strength, an EF-5. The death toll from these tornadoes has likely topped 500, a number not seen since 1953.

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