The Next Big Issue ™

From HousingWire:

Suits allege Fannie, Freddie owe millions in real estate transfer taxes in Michigan

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are using tax-exempt status to escape county fees levied during the recording of foreclosure property transfers, two Michigan county leaders said in lawsuits this week.

Andrew Meisner, treasurer of Michigan’s Oakland County, and Oakland County Executive L. Brooks Patterson sued Fannie and Freddie in the U.S. District Court on behalf of taxpayers in their county.

Oakland County claims the GSEs owe area taxpayers more than $12 million in unpaid real estate transfer taxes on the sale of foreclosed properties, according to a press release from Meisner. Meisner told HousingWire he believes this is one of the first cases challenging the GSEs’ ability to claim exemption from fees on the grounds that they’re government agents.

In a statement, Meisner wrote, “Fannie and Freddie you quack like a duck (or a private corporate entity), so you better pay up.”

He added, “In this case, Fannie and Freddie walk, fly and quack like private companies, right down to the multimillion-dollar salaries for their CEOs. That means that they are not entitled to exemptions made for government entities.”

The Oakland County plaintiffs contend Fannie and Freddie are not exempt from Michigan’s real estate transfer tax, which requires parties transferring properties to pay $1.10 per every $1,000 in value to the counties, while the state receives $7.50 per every $1,000 per transaction.

In the suit, the Oakland County treasurer is trying to reclaim fees tied to 200 real estate transactions that occurred over a period of six years.

In the same state, the Ingham County Register of Deeds Curtis Hertel Jr. filed suit against the two GSEs, Bank of America (BAC: 10.52 0.00%), Wells Fargo (WFC: 27.26 0.00%), Countrywide Home Loans Servicing, and the law firms of Orlans Associates and Trott & Trott P.C.

Hertel claims the defendants tried to escape a transfer tax by moving the assignment of the mortgage. “What you see is literally within one or two months before a foreclosure is filed, they transfer assignment of the mortgage to Fannie and Freddie,” Hertel said. “Why would they do that right before the foreclosure is about to happen … obviously it is to avoid fees.”

This entry was posted in Foreclosures, National Real Estate, Property Taxes. Bookmark the permalink.

156 Responses to The Next Big Issue ™

  1. grim says:

    From the Record:

    Region’s workers earn 30% more than U.S. average

    Workers in the New York metropolitan area, including North Jersey, earn about 30 percent more than the national average, the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Friday.

    According to the BLS, the average hourly wage in the area was $27.49 in May 2010 — the most recent figures available — compared with a nationwide average of $21.35.

    Area workers earn a higher average wage because they have to pay higher housing costs.

    In addition, the mix of jobs in the region includes many higher-paying, higher-skilled jobs. “Most of the jobs that are really highly paid tend to be jobs that require lots of education,” said Martin Kohli, an economist with the BLS.

    Finance and law, for example, are both overrepresented in the local labor market. And a number of corporations have headquarters in the region with highly paid corporate executives, Kohli pointed out.

    On the other end, workers in the region are less likely than those nationwide to work in food preparation, manufacturing and transportation and material moving, which are relatively lower-paid.

    Still, many workers in the region make less than $15 an hour, “which has got to be hard to live on in this area,” Kohli said.

  2. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  3. Rusty Trombone says:

    Good mourning New Joisey.

  4. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    Lower Loan Limits: Let the Games Begin

    The summer has barely started, but the fight is on against changes to loan limits that don’t take place until the first of October.

    Today the National Association of Home Builders released its own study claiming that lowering the loan limits at Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Federal Housing Administration (FHA), “will reduce housing demand and place downward pressure on home prices in major housing markets.”

    The loan limits were raised when the mortgage market crashed, investors in mortgage backed securities ran for the hills, and the government-owned entities were the only ones left writing mortgages. Originally at $417,000 for a so-called “conforming loan,” they rose to as high as $729,000 in the nation’s higher-cost markets, in order to keep mortgages moving. That will drop to $625,000 in October in those markets, with the base limit remaining at $417,000.

    The builders say that homes above those limits “would likely require financing with higher mortgage interest rates and other less favorable loan terms, such as higher required down payments and more stringent credit history thresholds.”

    So how many homes does that affect? According to the builders, 3.63 million owner-occupied homes now fall outside the loan limits, given their current values and an estimated 10 percent down payment (these homes aren’t necessarily for sale). This is out of a total housing stock of 75 million U.S. homes. Lower the loan limit to $625,000, and the builders say you add 1.38 million homes to that group outside of the GSE/FHA eligibility.

    I spoke with one of their number crunchers and suggested that out of 75 million homes, that’s really kind of a drop in the bucket…barely 2 percent, and again, those homes aren’t necessarily even on the market. He argued that the national number doesn’t represent many big markets, like here in DC where it would be 8 percent of the housing stock. Lower limits would put 11 percent of owner-occupied homes out of conforming loan range in California.

    There’s no question, today’s housing market doesn’t need any more barriers to entry, but this is a tricky one. There’s a very good reason to lower the loan limits, which is to get the government out of the housing business. Right now there is very little investor interest in mortgages, especially jumbo mortgages, with just a few jumbo securitizations this year at very low volumes.

  5. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Housing Numbers Could Spell End to June Gloom

    Two housing indicators this week should offer some welcome news given the overall state of the market.

    On Wednesday, the National Association of Realtors is set to report on pending home sales for May, showing the number of newly signed home contracts. The NAR’s pending sales index dropped by 11% in April from March. According to data tracked by housing economist Thomas Lawler, pending sales bounced back in May and likely posted a double-digit gain from April.

    The year-over-year gain in pending sales should look even better, though it’s likely to overstate the health of the market because pending sales plunged sharply last May, the first month after home-buyer tax credits expired.

    Meanwhile, on Tuesday, the S&P/Case-Shiller home-price index reports home prices for the three-month period ending in April. Last month, this index showed that home prices in the first quarter had hit a new low for the current downturn. Most analysts expect April’s figure to show that the pace of declines is moderating.

    Housing-data firm Radar Logic publishes its own index that has closely predicted the Case-Shiller reading, and it expects that Tuesday’s report will show home prices turning positive in April on a non-seasonally adjusted basis. Several other home price indexes that aren’t seasonally adjusted have also showed gains in April.

    After a string of disappointing reports, any uptick in prices would be a relief, but the reality is that housing is poised for neither rebound nor freefall. “We’re going to be flat through 2012 or 2013,” says Christopher Thornberg, a housing economist at Beacon Economics. He dismisses talk of an impending “double-dip” just as much as any talk of prices bouncing back.

  6. Mike says:

    Not to worry Mr. Soprano will be offering mortgages come October at a very competitive rate and no one gets turned down

  7. grim says:

    From the NYT:

    The Post-Foreclosure Wait

    MORTGAGE troubles won’t necessarily shut you out of the housing market forever.

    As the economy and real estate market continue to struggle, millions of Americans have lost their homes through foreclosure, short sale (when a property is sold for less than is owed) or a deed in lieu of foreclosure (when the bank takes ownership without foreclosure).

    Even if you think you never want to own a home again, clean credit is important. Bad credit can make it more expensive to rent. In some fields, especially financial services, it can make it difficult to find or keep a job.

    How quickly your credit score improves depends in part on how the problem is reported, said Sarah Davies, a senior vice president of VantageScore in Stamford, Conn., a credit-scoring company that competes with FICO, the dominant scoring system.

    In a short sale where the balance is forgiven and no deficiency is recorded in public records, recovery can be quick. “Simply paying all your debts on time could bring your score up to a reasonable range in nine months,” Ms. Davies said. “Reasonable” may not qualify you for a mortgage, but it will help in other situations.

    A foreclosure or bankruptcy can weigh you down for years. FICO has found that it takes three years for a borrower to pull a score back up to a fair-to-middling 680 after a foreclosure, according to Joanne Gaskin, a company director. A borrower who started out with a near-perfect 780 score would take about seven years to climb all the way back.

    There are plenty of asterisks and conditions. But to generalize, the wait is longest after a foreclosure. Extenuating circumstances like a job loss, illness or divorce reduce the wait.

    With such circumstances, Fannie and Freddie specify a two-year wait after a short sale, deed in lieu, or discharge or dismissal of bankruptcy, and three years after foreclosure. Without extenuating circumstances, waits can extend to four years after bankruptcy and seven years after foreclosure.

    “The key is to avoid the foreclosure,” said Andrew Wilson, a spokesman for Fannie Mae. “That is what will help you be eligible for the shorter period.”

    As for F.H.A.-insured loans, they are available three years after a foreclosure, assuming perfect credit afterward, and two years after a bankruptcy is discharged. After a short sale, there’s a three-year wait if the borrower is in default at the time of the sale and there are no extenuating circumstances. If the borrower was on time with all payments for 12 months before the sale, there is no wait specified, meaning that an F.H.A. loan might be available immediately. Among the conditions: A loan isn’t available if the short sale was to “take advantage of declining market conditions,” according to the F.H.A. Home Loan Handbook for lenders.

  8. Mikeinwaiting says:

    You have to love this one: ” A loan isn’t available if the short sale was to “take advantage of declining market conditions,” according to the F.H.A. Home Loan Handbook for lenders.”
    Take advantage Hmm, just this in print in a lender hand book from the FHA should tell you all you need to know about the housing market.

  9. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Bag holder wet dream, plus the added pleasure of the GSEs originating mortgages.
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/276359-bernanke-and-cantor-take-distressed-sales-out-of-real-estate-comps
    “Appraisers and lenders should take distressed sales out of “comps.”
    If banks do not want to lend, we should allow the GSEs to enter the banking business, at least the part they know best: Real estate.”

  10. Mikeinwaiting says:

    PS Check out the comments, I could swear a couple of our group where posting.

  11. Mikeinwaiting says:

    See a trend.
    http://seekingalpha.com/currents/all

    “It’s ‘probably inevitable’ that the eurozone will have to create a mechanism allowing weaker economies to exit the euro, opines George Soros. “We are on the verge of an economic collapse which starts, let’s say, in Greece, but it could easily spread. The financial system remains extremely vulnerable.”
    “In its annual report, published yesterday, the Bank for International Settlements calls on central banks to start raising rates in order to rein in inflation, and says they may have to do so at “a faster pace than in previous tightening episodes.”
    “Moody’s censures Japan for its inability to forge a plan by its self-imposed deadline of last Monday to deal with its massive debts. “This development is credit negative as it does not anchor government finances in a framework that holds out the possibility for containing debt,” the ratings agency says. ”
    “Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao says China will find it difficult to meet its 4% inflation target this year but expects it to come in below 5%. In May, inflation was 5.5%. Wen, who is on a trip to Europe, also forecast that the economy would grow above 8%-9%.”
    “Hoping to ease concerns about the threat of state and municipal debt to bank and national finances, China’s National Audit office reveals there is total local debt of $1.66T. The office says the localities are obligated to pay back 62% of this amount, begging the question about the other 38%”
    “President Obama is due to separately meet Democrat and Republican Senate leaders today as he looks to solve the impasse over cutting the deficit and raising the U.S.’s $14.3T debt ceiling by August 2 in order to avoid a default.”

  12. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Did they nuke the rest of Jersey, crickets chirping.

  13. mikey (9)-

    All I can say is, wow.

    The idea of Phony and Fraudy as primary mortgage lenders is like locking a pack of chimps into the command center of a nuclear missile silo with the launch codes punched in and the fail/safes removed.

  14. Mikeinwaiting says:

    May Personal Income and Outlays Income: +0.3% vs. +0.4% expected, +0.4% prior. Personal spending 0% in-line with expected, +0.4% prior. PCE core price index +0.3% vs. +0.2% expected, +0.2% prior.
    Let’s see, income down, spending flat, prices up, all is well.

  15. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Hobo 13 gotta love the “at least the part they know best: Real estate.”LOL, by the way love “locking a pack of chimps into the command center of a nuclear missile silo with the launch codes punched in and the fail/safes removed.” classic clot.

  16. 250k says:

    If I am selling a house, is it unreasonable to refuse the inclusion of a bank appraisal clause in the Purchase Agreement? That is, buyer can back out if lending bank appraises property for less than agreed upon purchase price. What if I add language saying buyer MUST pay bank appraised value provided I as seller agree. That way, if appraisal comes in at 354 but we agreed to 355, I can force the sale at the lower price and buyers can’t use it as an out.

  17. x-everything says:

    On the other end, workers in the region are less likely than those nationwide to work in food preparation

    As we all know, those people aren’t counted in statistics so therefore, they don’t exist.
    I wonder what the actual average income would be if we were to count the the armies if illegals who do the cooking and cleaning

  18. evildoc says:

    —Area workers earn a higher average wage because they have to pay higher housing costs.—

    Nah, cart before horse.

    Perhaps housing costs more because workers earn a higher wage, but the provision of wage is simple supply-demand

  19. grim says:

    250k – My buyers always have appraisal contingencies, this I a pretty common addition in AR.

  20. Kettle1^2 says:

    MIW

    Even better…. There are currently open lawsuits claiming that the GSE’s, Fannie and freddie cant foreclose as the notes were never transferred to them an further that the note has been separated from the deed since the last holder of the note was paid yet never transferred the note.

    Also consider the $$$ involved if any significant # of states wanted their transfer taxes out of Fannie and freddies hides

  21. 250k says:

    grim, thanks.
    In your experience, is it written as a flat out right to void contract or do people allow for some wiggle room? e.g. Appraisal must be 10k or more lower than purchase price in order to void.

  22. 3B says:

    #14 Mike:Let’s see, income down, spending flat, prices up, all is well.

    And some economist is dismissing a diuble di in housing?? It is already double dipping!!

  23. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Not exactly the Fabius/Schabadoo view, but not Jamil either:

    http://taxprof.typepad.com/files/131tn1315.pdf

    To me, this seems to be the other side of the same coin. ATEOTD, you implement the same reforms regardless of the competing rationales.

  24. amf1787 says:

    Would appreciate any recommendations for a place to eat for a date in downtown Montclair?

    Thanks!

  25. Kettle1^2 says:

    National bank runs!!!!! Party on!

    Moody’s Warns Of “Severe Greek Bank Cash Shortage” Due To Accelerating Deposit Flight
    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/moodys-warns-severe-greek-bank-cash-shortage-due-accelerating-deposit-flight

  26. grim says:

    250k – the problem is financing, since most lenders are going to require the buyer to add additional funds. Most buyers have tight finances and can’t contribute towards a larger DP. I’m not even talking about the impact to buyer sentiment due to the lower appraisal (holy crap we are overpaying). From a buyer standpoint this is also about protecting the deposit and still ensuring that the buyer can act on the contract.

    Worst case for seller is you drop the price accordingly to keep dp requirements status quo. You can kill the deal, but realize that you might be in the same boat with the next buyer.

  27. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Because of all you paper commodity traders out there, this bears repeating:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304231204576403674025064848.html?mod=WSJ_PersonalFinance_PF14

  28. Anon E. Moose says:

    Bleg: Anyone have the contact info of that ‘deal killer’ inspector? Post here or through Grim. Thanks.

  29. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Shiny continues to slide. Anyone with thots on when it is advisable to get back in?

  30. Wonderful, keep it up thanks.

  31. Kettle1^2 says:

    Nom

    $1450

  32. Anon E. Moose says:

    MIW [9];

    Appraisers and lenders should take distressed sales out of “comps.”
    . . .
    Franck J. Prissert
    Disclosure: I am long TOL, JOE.

    Doesn’t Clot have a saying for this? “Where you sit is where you stand.”

    I forget which talking head show had someone on who said this – either the bubble-headed host or a caller said something like “Donald Trump says its a great time to buy real estate…” “Well, Donald Trump has a lot of real estate to sell.”

  33. Shore Guy says:

    We may have gotten bin Laden but, we are allowing our enemies to turn us on ourselves:

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/26/florida.tsa.incident/

  34. Shore Guy says:

    The Dodgers entered BK. Serves them right for leaving Brooklyn.

  35. 30 year realtor says:

    #28 – Moose requesting the contact info for a home inspector? Got to be more to this story…

  36. njrenewbie says:

    Closing on a modest Maplewood home close to the village square, train, & a good elementary school for the kids. Got no complaints about the $14K prop taxes considering K & 1st grade alone in Manhattan was going to be $60K+ (Paid $25K last year for Kindergarten for the older of the 2 kids).

    Did not buy a short or foreclosure but still paid 2002 price point. The recent interest rate reduction is fantastic, this same house would have cost me $65,000 more ( over the lifetime of the loan) when this house first came on the market in mid-Spring. Between negotiating down to a 2002 price point and the interest rate decline, I can calculate approx $125,000 in less money the home is costing me.

    It’s not a joke, it is indeed a great time to buy if your personal circumstances are driving the choice. NJ’s a bargain for all us Manhattan young families that don’t have trust funds and 7 figure jobs.

  37. Anon E. Moose says:

    30-yr [35];

    When your conclusions differ from reality, re-check your premises; you’ll find one or more of them are incorrect.

  38. Anon E. Moose says:

    Title Post;

    I find this interesting because the desire to evate RE recording (and re-recording) fees/taxes while mortgages were being traded like baseball cards was a prime motivator to create MERS.

  39. Supreme Court says my 4 y/o niece can empty her piggy bank and go buy Grand Theft Auto or Call of Duty.

  40. Anon E. Moose says:

    njrenewbie [36];

    Got no complaints about the $14K prop taxes considering K & 1st grade alone in Manhattan was going to be $60K+ (Paid $25K last year for Kindergarten for the older of the 2 kids).

    You should read Rich Karlgaard’s Life 2.0. He called such things the ‘yuppie tax’ on urban lifestyle.

  41. 250K (16)-

    Try floating your idea past your buyer, and let us know here how it worked out.

  42. vodka (20)-

    I bet MERS’ potential outstanding transfer taxes dwarf Phony and Fraudy’s.

  43. Check that; I meant to say MERS’ recording fees.

  44. Kettle1^2 says:

    43 hobo

    How long before the states get hungry enough to tear into MERS. I would imagine that it wont be too much longer before MERS starts looking like a fat juicy steak.

    The interesting part is that MERS is a shell company exclusively for the laundering of mortgages. Can the states manage to reach the banks behind MERS for the $$$? Several state courts have already ruled that MERS has no standing to foreclose. The facade is crumbling layer by layer.

  45. vodka (25)-

    I wonder to what extent the widespread rioting in Greece will hinder the bank runs.

  46. Happy Renter says:

    [1] “Workers in the New York metropolitan area, including North Jersey, earn about 30 percent more than the national average, the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Friday.”

    Oh. That explains why home prices in North Jersey are only 30% more than across the rest of the nation.

    That’s correct, isn’t it?

  47. Shore Guy says:

    I have not yet read the decision but, it would seem difficult to restrict sexual contact given this decision. What, one is forbidden from seing a depiction of a natural part of life, in which just about everyone is expected to participate on a regular basis and that leads to the creation of new life; however, one is allowed to see depictions of gruesom crimes leading to death and maiming? Someone, please wake me up.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/28/us/28scotus.html

    WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court, in a 7-to-2 vote, said on Monday that California could not ban the sale or rental of violent video games to children.

    The court agreed with a decision by the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in Sacramento to throw out the ban. The appeals court had ruled that the law violated minors’ rights under the First and Fourteenth amendments.

    The law would have prohibited the sale or rental of violent games to anyone under 18. Retailers who violated the act would have been fined up to $1,000 for each infraction.
    snip

  48. Shore Guy says:

    This ought to get Sastry in a lather:

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100093577/the-science-is-settled-us-liberals-really-are-the-dumbest-creatures-on-the-planet/

    The science is settled: US liberals really are the dumbest creatures on the planet

    Today I am in New York on my publicity tour for Watermelons and as I sat at breakfast this morning, chomping on an Ess-a-bagel and reading Thomas Sowell’s Basic Economics I found myself wondering – not for the first time – why it is that liberal-lefties manage to be so utterly wrong about everything.

    “Because they’re stupid,” said a libertarian friend of mine.

    “Oh come on, not all of them surely? A bit misguided, maybe but…” I protested.

    “No really they’re stupid because they’re not interested in facts. They just want to construct their pretty little narrative about the world, regardless of whether or not it has any bearing on reality. And then they want to dump it on us. And ruin our lives. So not just stupid but evil too.”

    snip

  49. 250k says:

    HoboClot (41)

    Asking for removal of bank appraisal clause seems unreasonable unless I want to kill the deal in this hypothetical, I agree. But if buyer really wants the house, why would they care if I agree to let them buy at whatever discount the bank appraiser comes up with (within reason)? If they offered 400 and appraisal says 390 and I agree to let them pay only that, how is that not great for the buyer? What I as seller give up is 10k but I don’t let them back out of the deal.

  50. Shore Guy says:

    250, under those circumstances, a buyer would be very tempted to ask the appraiser to not appraise above a certain level. In the absence of a clause like you suggest, if the deal falls through because of “appraisal,” if you respond to a low appraisal by agreeing to lower the price, then it was likely to fall apart under attorney review anyway, even with the clause.

  51. njrenewbie (36)-

    Please post here again when the state of NJ decides that you- and folks like you- deserve to be Louima-ized with the payment of all the bad debt this state has rung up over the past few decades.

    Any idea of potential “savings” to be accrued by moving from an insanely-priced bubble market (NYC) to a slightly-less-insanely priced bubble market that features withering RE cost of carry issues (i.e., taxes) is madness.

    I can guarantee you that if you make a lot now, the gubmint here will find more and more ways to take more of it from you. If you earn more in the future than you do now, NJ’s Dept. of Revenue will then take even more of it from you.

    The only two groups that can thrive in NJ are the uber-rich and the indigent. Anyone in between is simply a host for the parasites otherwise known as state and local gubmint.

  52. A.West says:

    Shore,
    I disagree about liberals being stupid. I suspect liberals are on average somewhat more intelligent and educated than conservatives. At least the NY Times reading sort around here. Liberals are simply more consistent in demanding to directly apply the most basic and wrong ethical premises that are widely held, such as “you are your brother’s keeper,” that “to give is better than receive,” and “we’re all in this together”. They put collectivist/altruist premises into action, and are thus considered “idealistic”. They aren’t smart or honest enough to question their premises, but at least they essentially follow them. Religious republicans, on the other hand, routinely fail to even consistently follow their values, artificially tacking onto their Christian values the occasional lip service to freedom and property rights, but routinely folding politically when it’s pointed out how this conflicts with the tenets of altruism.
    I’d rather have Fidel Castro as president than Palin/Bachmann, because at least Americans would revolt in disgust at the clear repudiation of the last remnants of the US constitution.

  53. 14K property taxes in Maplewood AND laying out 60K in Manhattan for K thru 1st grade are BOTH insane and unsustainable propositions.

    “Got no complaints about the $14K prop taxes considering K & 1st grade alone in Manhattan was going to be $60K+ (Paid $25K last year for Kindergarten for the older of the 2 kids).”

  54. On second thought, I have no doubt that the Greeks can successfully incorporate rioting into their bank runs.

  55. NEWS: former Citi VP Gary Foster arrested and charged with embezzling 19mm from C.

  56. 250K (49)-

    Because the shortfall on the appraisal may jeopardize their anticipated financing package.

  57. Shore Guy says:

    AW,

    I was not saying I agreed with ther author, only that it would drive Sastry into a lather. Your assessment is spot on.

  58. Real liberals don’t get angry at people who express contrary opinions. They feel sorry for us, then go to work finding ways to silence us.

  59. 250k says:

    Hobo (56)
    … and if they are putting more than 20% down?

  60. A.West says:

    Classical liberalism was a good thing – essentially the politics of enlightenment values, reason, free trade, individual rights, anti-slavery. The pro-capitalist liberals were the progressive vanguard against the conservative forces of religion, inherited political priveledge, and guilds. There are still some countries like Australia where “liberals” are the pro-market party. US conservatives decided that capitalism and the constitution can only be defended by faith and tradition, ceding reason to the liberals, and divorcing America’s founding documents from the intellectual age in which they were born.

  61. Shore Guy says:

    Bingo.

  62. Anon E. Moose says:

    Happy Renter [46];

    Until you consider the sheeple like Harry and Hila How-Much-A-Month… When you leverage out the income difference, and apply all of the excess to housing, you come remarkably close to the actual price differential (the extra premium is just because everybody wants to live in New Joisey).

    Translation – for most people its impossible to be fiscally rational and responsible while buying a house. Where ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise.

  63. 250K (59)-

    In reality, most buyers run for the hills if the house underappraises for a much as $1, as they take it as a sign that they’ve overpaid. They generally also ditch their buyer’s agent, since the next logical conclusion is that the agent sold them down the river.

  64. No matter the size of the DP, buyers (and, if not buyers, certainly their attorneys) would perceive any attempt to remove or heavily condition an appraisal contingency to be a big red flag.

  65. Nation of Wussies HEHEHE says:

    A West for prez

  66. 3B says:

    #64 That is certainly understandable.

  67. 250k says:

    Hobo (64)

    Aaah, yes, the big red flag. But when you are dealing with the properties contained within the borders of Brigadoon, there is a surcharge. You see, people should be paying the sellers extra fees for the privilege of purchasing their homes. Am I right Com Nom????

  68. Kettle1^2 says:

    Liberals v conservatives.

    If you accept that limited paradigm, the choice is a simple matter of dumb or dumber. The only way to win is to refuse to play the game as long as “they” define the rules of the game.

    …….Wouldn’t you prefer a nice game of chess?

  69. Kettle1^2 says:

    of course the Sheeple love the liberal v conservative paradigm as it fits right in with the scantron education they are so proud of.

  70. A.West says:

    Hobo,
    When you’re talking about the size of the DP for buyers, are you talking about down payment or double penetration?

  71. RentinginNJ says:

    Toll Brothers credit rating just cut to “junk”.

  72. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    Ket Scan tron has too many choices for those idiots true or false are the only reasonable choices that fit intot heir worldview

  73. Anon E. Moose says:

    Clot [63];

    [I]f the house underappraises for a much as $1, … They generally also ditch their buyer’s agent, since the next logical conclusion is that the agent sold them down the river.

    Is that just your anecdotal experience?

  74. Anon E. Moose says:

    Rentinginnj [71];

    Toll Brothers credit rating just cut to “junk”.

    Someone should break the news to Mr. Prissert [9, 32].

  75. Kettle1^2 says:

    Clot

    Xerxes Blankfein’s attempts to auction off Athens’ monuments appear to have met with a resilient match in the face of the communist affiliated Spartans who have now covered the Parthenon with slogans that read: “The peoples have the power and never surrender – Organise – Counterattack.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/communists-have-now-taken-over-acropolis

  76. JJ says:

    why would anyone need to spend 25k for kindergarten? what is wrong with public school in city? I went to kindergarten in Bronx pretty much kids are kids. In kindergarten there are no gangmembers. That 25K if invested properly compounded for 14 years would have been 100K towards college.

    njrenewbie says:
    June 27, 2011 at 10:20 am
    Closing on a modest Maplewood home close to the village square, train, & a good elementary school for the kids. Got no complaints about the $14K prop taxes considering K & 1st grade alone in Manhattan was going to be $60K+ (Paid $25K last year for Kindergarten for the older of the 2 kids).

    Did not buy a short or foreclosure but still paid 2002 price point. The recent interest rate reduction is fantastic, this same house would have cost me $65,000 more ( over the lifetime of the loan) when this house first came on the market in mid-Spring. Between negotiating down to a 2002 price point and the interest rate decline, I can calculate approx $125,000 in less money the home is costing me.

    It’s not a joke, it is indeed a great time to buy if your personal circumstances are driving the choice. NJ’s a bargain for all us Manhattan young families that don’t have trust funds and 7 figure jobs.

  77. Shore Guy says:

    Blogo, goes straight to jail today?

    Associated Press
    Blagojevich jury reaches verdicts on 18 counts
    By MICHAEL TARM , 06.27.11, 02:28 PM EDT

    CHICAGO — More than two years after his arrest while still in office, former Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich will hear the verdict in his corruption retrial Monday, after jurors informed the judge that they had reached agreement on 18 of the 20 counts against him.

    Judge James Zagel said the verdicts will be read Monday afternoon. The jury had returned to the federal courthouse Monday morning after nine days of deliberations.
    snip

    http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2011/06/27/general-us-blagojevich-trial_8537282.html

  78. Shore Guy says:

    John,

    True as that may be, if one does not put one’s child in the RIGHT Manhattan preschool, one cannot get one’s child into the RIGHT kindergarten. Then, because of poor parenting/financial decisions, one cannot get one’s child into the RIGHT elementary school (lower house of a private school) and then, by the time one NEEDS to get a child into a private high school, the options are closed.

    I cant tell you the number of business associates who have recounted this to me.

  79. 3B says:

    #79 And at the end of the day, much of it may turn out to be nothing. Please remember this is not for the child,and what may be best for him or her; it is for the parents.

  80. Kettle1^2 says:

    Shore 80

    Why dont we just re-purpose some of our old MERV’s and put 20ft tungsten rods in place of the warheads. We disassembled most if not all of our MERVS (i.e the peacekeeper) in the 90’s, but we have to have a few lying around. Launch the MERV and drop the tungsten rods from orbital altitude. Voila! an improvised “Rods from heavan”, all the destructive force of a nuke with non of the fallout. As a nice little side benefit, the tungsten rods would make great deep penetrator bunker busters with a blast of nuclear magnitude purely from the kinetic impact!!!

    Enough of the boring foreplay already, lets just fire off WWIII already and enjoy a little creative destruction.

    Just for fun, you could crush any foreign navy with a handful of rods and clear any coastal defenses with a nice little tsunami as well.

  81. Rusty Trombone says:

    I appreciate a quiet stroll on a shady street.

  82. Shore Guy says:

    Regarding the video game ruling, this is one of a very, very limited number of times that Thomas has come out on the opposite side as Scalia. Breyer hit the nail on the head in his dissent:

    Justice Stephen Breyer … questioned the video game industry’s claims of effectiveness for its voluntary rating system, and also questioned the logic of restricting minors’ access to portrayals of nu-dity but not carnage.

    “What sense does it make to forbid selling to a 13-year-old boy a magazine with an image of a nu-de woman, while protecting a sale to that 13-year-old of an interactive video game in which he actively, but virtually, binds and ga-gs the woman, then tortu-res and kills her?” Breyer said.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/06/27/BA9Q1K37ED.DTL

  83. Shore Guy says:

    Kettle,

    It would have to be SLBMs. Any ICBM attack on Iran would require flying over the pole and RUSSIA, which runs the risk of causing our own incineration in an oops moment. Also, our agreements with Russia limits the number of delivery vehicles and I don’t know that we want to expend them on a conventional attack.

    With each passing day, it becomes more and more clear that Iran’s missile program needs to be curtailed with, as the movie said, extreme prejudice.

  84. Shore Guy says:

    Blogo guilty on 11 counts.

  85. Shore Guy says:

    I wonder who his roommate will be.

  86. Shore Guy says:

    agreements limit

  87. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    Yeah Iran has underground silos. Never thought anything would makle me yearn for the long gone Days of MAD and the Soviets, but there it is.

  88. JJ says:

    A Boars Head Route would be a better investment.

    Shore Guy says:
    June 27, 2011 at 2:51 pm
    John,

    True as that may be, if one does not put one’s child in the RIGHT Manhattan preschool, one cannot get one’s child into the RIGHT kindergarten. Then, because of poor parenting/financial decisions, one cannot get one’s child into the RIGHT elementary school (lower house of a private school) and then, by the time one NEEDS to get a child into a private high school, the options are closed.

    I cant tell you the number of business associates who have recounted this to me.

  89. 3B says:

    #90 Agreed.

  90. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (67) 250

    Indeed, as I post from the palatial grounds of the Brigadoon town pool, where the girls are cavorting with unicorns in the petting zoo, I am reminded that in the brig, all the women are hot, the men are buff, and the kids are above average. In fact, folks from reseller and plainfield are trolling the brig and casting off our trash, so valuable it is to them. That alone justifies the premium.

    (BTW, the part about the unicorns is made up, and not all the adults are hot. The rest is amazingly true)

  91. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Friggen android. Reseller s/b reseller and casting off s/b picking up

  92. nj escapee says:

    92, Nom, no need in Key West to travel all the way to the town pool to see hot women in bikinis. they are everywhere ;)

  93. 250K (67)-

    I see your fantasy, and raise you one pipedream.

  94. west (70)-

    You should assume anyone who buys a home in this market is being double penetrated.

    Louima-style.

  95. rent (71)-

    Wake me up when it hits “D” (default).

  96. moose (73)-

    Believe it or not, I have not personally had that experience as a buyer’s agent. I have, however, seen it from the listing agent side a couple of times. And, I have also seen buyers appeal the appraisal, have the number upped on the appeal and then get their expected financing and close.

  97. Moose, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

  98. vodka (75)-

    I hope they don’t intend on turning that pile of rubble into their fort.

  99. moose (76)-

    Sounds like the Fed’s idea of methad0ne.

  100. shore (79)-

    Nope, no education bubble there…

  101. I’m pretty sure Rusty Trombone and Borat Obama are the same poster.

  102. escapee (94)-

    What percentage of those women are actually men?

  103. Rusty Trombone says:

    I started drinking at 10am today.

  104. Congratulations, but why so late in the day?

  105. Anon E. Moose says:

    OT: I wonder if men parading in the streets wearing drag and/or @$$less chaps is the most effective way of selling the narrative that “We just want to be like everybody else”. Just a thought.

  106. Bystander says:

    Shore 84,

    Its such a fine line between stupid and clever.
    – David St. Hubbins

  107. Anon E. Moose says:

    Hobo [99];

    I’m personally fond of Excalibur prensados in maduro.

  108. NJ Toast says:

    When is the final decision / date of Greece’s supposed austerity program?

  109. toast (110)-

    It’s not an austerity program. It’s an engineered pause between now and the eventual default, during which time all the world’s banksters hope to be able to asset-strip the country down to bare bones.

  110. It will be impossible to initiate or administer a true austerity program in Greece. The whole country will go up in flames on day one.

  111. 250k says:

    Hobogun (98)

    >>I have also seen buyers appeal the appraisal,
    >>have the number upped on the appeal
    >> and then get their expected financing and close.

    Really? Did the house sit atop undiscovered gold?

  112. 250K (113)-

    No. Sometimes, appraisers make mistakes. Sometimes, the mistakes are even honest ones. Other times, the mistakes are rooted in incompetence, not deceit.

  113. Rusty Trombone says:

    106. i had to sext my coworkers my turgid unit.

  114. Bystander says:

    Heads up..anyone interested in tort reform and the often mocked McDonalds coffee case, tune into HBO @ 9 pm. They are showing a documentary called Hot Coffee about the woman, the media and impacts on tort cases nationwide.

  115. Al Mossberg says:

    116,

    Freedy,

    Cant wait until JP Morgan gets to asset strip NJ. I say we auction off Monclair.

  116. kiki says:

    Thank you..really informative!!

  117. Kettle1^2 says:

    Freedy

    that loan is suicidal. Alas the event horizon of this debt singularity was passed long ago. Our only chance at this point would be for Christie to force a government shutdown then slash & burn the budget unitl existing tax revenue covers expenses.

  118. 3b says:

    #199 The vote in their Parliament I believe is later this week.

  119. NJ Toast says:

    Hobo – on the Greece thing, as I understand it, they have to cut their expenditures or the EU won’t help them restructure. Are you saying it will be a smoke & mirrors event whereby the will get their economic help but not actually engage in meaningful cost cutting? If so, you think the countries doing the bailout are going to just let things remain and give up the $$ to avoid a total collapse?

    Freedy – could not read the entire article. Is that a short term loan that gets repaid in a few months when the states new FY kicks in and they get the new years tax $$ coming in or is it a revolving line that goes on forever and they are actually using the $2.25 Billion or whatever amount to finance / cover the shortfall in revenue?

  120. 3b says:

    Sorry the above post is in response to post #110.

  121. Shore Guy says:

    “Its such a fine line between stupid and clever.
    – David St. Hubbins”

    Unfortunately, the stupid more often go to eleven than do the clever.

  122. Kettle1^2 says:

    In case there was any question about the looming geometric Increase in NJ property taxes, I think that bridge loan settles the question.

  123. Al Mossberg says:

    Martin Armstrong on the election cycle.

    “The numbers show that the days of Marxism are numbered. But the days of the right wing religious followers do not look so good either. What is percolating behind the scenes appears to be a political change toward greater independence. The Revolution Cycle is likely to hit in 2068..

    The Democrats have promised the moon, but funded nothing. Their constant attack on the class structure and corporations has done far more harm than good. They have chased jobs from America and no matter what you show them, they will not change their ways. The Republicans have also lost their way and desire to be the world policeman of imperialism forcing American doctrine upon the rest of the world, but we ran out of the bankroll to support that agenda. The Republicans are behavior Marxists and demand to control what people think and do. They have destroyed the LIBERTY that was supposed to be the number one objective of the constitution and transformed the USA into the biggest prison camp the world has ever seen.”

    http://www.10sigma.com/files/The%20Presidential%20Elections%2006-26-2011.pdf

  124. Shore Guy says:

    Anyone catch this the other day?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/business/global/26bridge.html?src=me&ref=general

    SHANGHAI — Talk about outsourcing.
    At a sprawling manufacturing complex here, hundreds of Chinese laborers are now completing work on the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge.

    Next month, the last four of more than two dozen giant steel modules — each with a roadbed segment about half the size of a football field — will be loaded onto a huge ship and transported 6,500 miles to Oakland. There, they will be assembled to fit into the eastern span of the new Bay Bridge.

    snip
    “On the reputation of showcase projects like Beijing’s Olympic-size airport terminal and the mammoth hydroelectric Three Gorges Dam, Chinese companies have been hired to build copper mines in the Congo, high-speed rail lines in Brazil and huge apartment complexes in Saudi Arabia.

    In New York City alone, Chinese companies have won contracts to help renovate the subway system, refurbish the Alexander Hamilton Bridge over the Harlem River and build a new Metro-North train platform near Yankee Stadium. As with the Bay Bridge, American union labor would carry out most of the work done on United States soil.

    American steelworker unions have disparaged the Bay Bridge contract by accusing the state of California of sending good jobs overseas and settling for what they deride as poor-quality Chinese steel. Industry groups in the United States and other countries have raised questions about the safety and quality of Chinese workmanship on such projects. Indeed, China has had quality control problems ranging from tainted milk to poorly built schools. “

  125. Shore Guy says:

    snip

  126. Shore Guy says:

    Parliment or Funkadelic?

  127. Kettle1^2 says:

    Nj toast

    The state would aim to repay the bridge loan with proceeds from the bonds it expects to issue later this summer, known as tax-and-revenue anticipation notes. Those bonds are expected to be paid off through tax receipts.

  128. Shore Guy says:

    “The Democrats have promised the moon, but funded nothing. Their constant attack on the class structure and corporations has done far more harm than good. They have chased jobs from America and no matter what you show them, they will not change their ways. The Republicans have also lost their way “\

    I am no fan of monarchies but, one can say this for them, therer is a single head that one can lop off when things go poorly. In a democracy, there are so many heads pointing at the other, it is difficult to pin blame on those most culpable for a given mess.

  129. Shore Guy says:

    There has to be a joke in there about having a bridge loan to sell somebody.

  130. Kettle1^2 says:

    Shore 131

    nuke them from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure

  131. Shore Guy says:

    “I say we auction off Monclair.”

    Can we toss in Camden?

  132. freedy says:

    Sell Trenton to the Mexicans

  133. Kettle1^2 says:

    Shore

    we don’t have an old peacekeeper MERV laying around do we?

  134. Shore Guy says:

    Kettle,

    I would have no objection to bombing them into the pre-Persian Empire, or even the stone age. Like a bee to an allergic person, they have the potential to present an existential threat to the West, and I would rather do unto them before they do unto us.

  135. Shore Guy says:

    Ronco Real Estate makes this incredible offer: Buy Montclair NJ for $19.95, and an assumption of its debt, and get Camden and Trenton free. You heard it, three cities for the unbelievable price of $19.95. But if you act now, we will throw in Elizabeth and Vineland. You must act now. These prices cannot last long.

  136. Kettle1^2 says:

    Shore

    I was talking about the politicians not the Arabs.

  137. Kettle1^2 says:

    Perhaps we could hold a national political conference at Calhoun just as gavins point dam has an “unexpected” failure.

  138. Shore Guy says:

    “What percentage of those women are actually men?”

    The really, really sad thing is that a good number of transvestites actually make better-looking women than many women out there. If that were not motivation for more women to put down the Sourcream Doritos and get a bit more exercise, I don’t know what else could be more motivating.

  139. Shore Guy says:

    Kettle,

    Don’t you know, every reasonably-anticipated event is now unexpected.

  140. Shore Guy says:

    Drive around the old Asbury Circle on Route 66 in Ocean Township and you’ll see something new, something that is expected to be less prevalent in New Jersey this year than in years past.

    It’s a brand new shopping center in the final stages of construction, called the Ocean Circle Plaza and located on the former site of the old Ritz Diner.

    In New Jersey, the pace of new retail construction, including shopping centers, is forecast to slow in 2011. Banks are keeping their cash close
    snip
    http://www.app.com/article/20110626/NJBIZ/306260029/Fewer-new-shopping-centers-sprout-up-in-NJ-due-to-poor-economy-and-rigid-financing-

  141. Shore Guy says:

    In for a dime, in for a dollar. This chick seems to have nothing at all going for her:

    http://www.app.com/article/20110623/NJNEWS/306230071/Brick-woman-accused-fatal-Toms-River-crash-now-facing-prost*itution-charge?odyssey=obinsite

    remove *

    Brick woman, accused in fatal Toms River crash, now facing prost-itution charge

    SEASIDE HEIGHTS — A 26-year-old Brick woman — already charged in connection with a 2009 crash that killed a West Orange attorney — is back in jail, this time charged with prosti-tution.

    Crystal Vallee was additionally charged June 15 with pros-ti-tution after soliciting Detective Elijah Bryant, an undercover officer, Detective Steve Korman said.
    snip
    She was originally jailed on a charge of vehicular homicide in connection with the death of Mark A. Infante, 54, a West Orange prosecutor who was fatally struck by Vallee’s vehicle on the day after Thanksgiving in 2009 on Route 35 near his vacation home in Toms River. Vallee admitted using cocaine before the incident, authorities have said.

    Vallee is also previously charged with theft by deception after she allegedly wrote and cashed a series of seven checks she stole from her mother on Nov. 9, 2009. The amount of the stolen checks totaled $1,430, according to the allegations.
    snip.

  142. Shore Guy says:

    Apparently, miniskirts and bicycles are not a legal combination:

    http://fashionetc.com/news/fashion/2152-miniskirt-bike-nypd?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=launch

    snip

    Dutch bicycle company manager Jasmijn Rijcken claims she was beating the heat in a miniskirt on May 3 when she was pulled over by the NYPD for flashing a “disturbing” amount of skin, the New York Daily News reports.

    Rijcken, who was in town for the New Amsterdam Bike Show, says she was approached by an officer who told her that her outfit was “very disturbing, and it’s distracting the cars and it’s dangerous.”

    “I thought he was joking around but he got angry and asked me for ID,” the 31-year-old tells the paper. “I didn’t even think for one second that my outfit could be harmful or disturbing. I was on my way back to the hotel when it happened and I changed into pants. I didn’t want to get into trouble again.”

    snip

  143. nj escapee says:

    104, 141, I’m not blind. Trust me when I say they are genuine women, mostly touristas walking / biking around town in next to nothing, nowhere near the beaches. Who looks at SI centerfolds when you have that kind of scenery. Another benefit of living in the southernmost city.

  144. Rusty (115)-

    So far, that is my nomination for Post of the Year.

    “i had to sext my coworkers my turgid unit.”

  145. I like Vodka’s idea to drop 20 ft tungsten rods on the earth from outer space.

  146. Can I borrow somebody’s spacecraft?

  147. cobbler says:

    Tungsten rod without a guidance system when dropped from space is highly unlikely to hit anywhere close to where you want it to. The one with the guidance system is actually called a warhead, and the non-nuclear MIRWes had never been shown to be particularly useful.

  148. Kettle1^2 says:

    Hobo

    a tungsten rod, 20ft by 2ft impacting the earth at around 20,000 mph would make for dome very serious shock and awe.
    Then again if you go with a large cloud of knitting needle sized tungsten shards you could shred entire battalions.

    Don’t forget your highschool physics. K=1/2mv^2

  149. Barbara says:

    145. Shore
    I’m willing to bet the mini skirt wasn’t the issue but rather, the lack of underpinnings. She’s Dutch, after all.

  150. Barbara says:

    126. Al

    Hyperbole IS fun.

  151. Al Mossberg says:

    Why dont we just drop these 2 food stamp fat _sses out of a C-130.

    Tungsten doesnt have the mass that these 2 fine Americans have.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efyrzAewjz8&feature=related

  152. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Kettle ,”War Games” & “Aliens” Ref all in one day , outstanding. Give me the posts folks your drinks on me at the next GTG.

  153. free ipad 2 says:

    Good review! This is truly the type of article that should be shared around the internet. Sad on the Google for not positioning this article higher!

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