October Home Sales Surprise (only slightly)

From the WSJ Developments Blog:

Behind the Numbers: Thankful for Existing-Home Sales

Here’s a reason for America’s real-estate agents to start celebrating Thanksgiving a few days early: Sales of previously owned homes in the U.S. — the biggest part of the market — unexpectedly climbed in October.

As we report, existing-home sales ticked up 1.4% from a month earlier, the National Association of Realtors trade group reports. Sales rose in the West, South and Midwest, but fell in the Northeast, which may have been slowed by an early-season snowstorm.

Economists surveyed by Dow Jones Newswires had expected home sales to fall by 2.2%.

While beating expectations is a good thing — and the hard-hit housing market could be near a bottom — demand remains weak because of the limping economy, elevated unemployment and tight lending standards that are preventing many would-be buyers from securing mortgage funding.

Plenty of consumers are also afraid that home prices, down 30% or more from the peak, aren’t done falling. And it doesn’t look like they are: October’s median sales price was $162,500, down 4.7% from $170,600 a year earlier.

Paul Diggle, economist, Capital Economics: “The modest rise in existing home sales in October may reflect the recent improvements in economic activity and the labor market. But a sustained and significant recovery in home sales is just not on the cards when large numbers of potential buyers are constrained by negative equity and tight credit conditions.”

Joshua Shapiro, economist, MFR: “Inventories are high relative to sales rates, and would be even more so if all those wishing to sell their home actually had the house on the market instead of keeping it off in the face of eroding prices.”

Ellen Zentner, economist, Nomura: “Despite more job gains this year, affordability remaining near record highs, and rising rents generally steering renters to buying, home sales have been unable to break out of a narrow range. Programs such as bulk sales to investors and speeding the process of foreclosure would go far in dispensing of the incredible overhang of REO properties.”

From Bloomberg:

Sales of Existing U.S. Homes Unexpectedly Increase

Sales of previously owned homes in the U.S. unexpectedly rose in October, a sign falling prices may be attracting buyers.

Purchases increased 1.4 percent to a 4.97 million annual rate, the National Association of Realtors said today in Washington. The median forecast of 75 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News was for a 4.8 million rate. The median house price dropped 4.7 percent from a year earlier, and the number of properties for sale was the lowest for any October since 2005.

Borrowing costs near a record low are helping homebuyers take advantage of housing that’s growing more affordable as prices drop. At the same time, the end of a temporary halt on foreclosures may push more properties onto the market, triggering further slides in value that may prevent the industry from recovering for years.

“The housing market is stabilizing, but it has a long road to a full recovery,” said Sal Guatieri, a senior U.S. economist at BMO Capital Markets in Toronto. “There are still a lot of depressed properties in the pipeline that will hit the market, and demand likely needs to strengthen above a 5 million annual rate to absorb the overhang of unsold homes and alleviate the downward pressure on prices.”

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115 Responses to October Home Sales Surprise (only slightly)

  1. Bocephus says:

    Good Morning Ammmmerrrriica!

  2. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  3. grim says:

    Lies, damn lies, and statistics

  4. Mikeinwaiting says:

    “Sales of previously owned homes in the U.S. unexpectedly rose in October, a sign falling prices may be attracting buyers.”
    Aah “unexpectedly”, now let me see prices down 4.7 % from last year,sales an anemic
    4.97 mil., get out the party hats & noise makers folks. These guys will hang their hats on anything that gives the slightest glimmer of hope. The worst is over but the slow bleed will continue, death by a thousand cuts.

  5. grim says:

    Ignore the month to month comparisons, ignore the seasonally adjusted numbers.

  6. mikey (5)-

    Create the desired headline, then goalseek the statistics. Same as it ever was.

    The ship is going down, boys. The band is cueing up Nearer My God to Thee.

  7. grim (6)-

    Ignore that man behind the curtain.

  8. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Saw this in an article in regard to the stock market, good one.

    MORTICIAN: Bring out your dead!
    Bring out your dead!
    Bring out your dead!
    Bring out your dead!
    Bring out your dead!
    CUSTOMER: Here’s one — nine pence.
    DEAD PERSON: I’m not dead!
    MORTICIAN: What?
    CUSTOMER: Nothing — here’s your nine pence.
    DEAD PERSON: I’m not dead!
    MORTICIAN: Here — he says he’s not dead!
    CUSTOMER: Yes, he is.
    DEAD PERSON: I’m not!
    MORTICIAN: He isn’t.
    CUSTOMER: Well, he will be soon, he’s very ill.
    DEAD PERSON: I’m getting better!
    CUSTOMER: No, you’re not — you’ll be stone dead in a moment.

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/309495-bearish-market-conditions-bring-out-your-dead

  9. Mike says:

    Can I get a realtor’s license on line?

  10. Fabius Maximus says:

    Well if we are starting the day with Monty Python, I’ll put this up as the GOP debt discussions.

    What have taxes ever done for us!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ

  11. Fabius Maximus says:

    Make,

    Daughters skipping grades is a bad idea. Social and physical developement really stands out. Then as a father you can get your worst nightmare. Your daughter hits freshman in high school and starts hanging out with her classmates who were held back and because of age cut off could be almost 3 years older than her.

    “Daddy, I love high school, my new friend Joey is a linebacker with a learners permit”

  12. reinvestor101 says:

    Stinking liberals are an absolute scourge on damn politics. I knew the damn super committee would fail because all the damn liberals want to do is tax and spend. People are sick of that crap. Why in the hell would you want to raise any damn taxes at all? They need to be cut again dammit. I want the government to be the size of the damn gnat–and that’s too big for my damn taste. You know what I want for Christmas? Some damn pepper spray to use on stinking liberals.

  13. reinvestor101 says:

    >>freedy says:
    November 22, 2011 at 8:11 am

    http://www.businessinsider.com/mf-global-revelations-keep-getting-worse-2011-11

    Amazing that Corzine is not in a jail cell<<

    Let's keep the damn focus on liberal Corzine's support of Obama. Stop focusing on people's money missing. This is NOT ANOTHER MADOFF and I for one resent all this crap scaring the hell out of people. This doesn't do a damn thing for confidence and if this crap keeps up, who in the hell will trust anything other than damn Backyard National? WE CAN'T HAVE THAT. So, just keep your damn month shut about all that and focus on stinking liberals. This money will come back at some point and if it doesn't, who gives a shlt? I hate Gerald Celente and am glad to see he lost money.

  14. JJ says:

    My next door neighbor in my blue collar town bought his house literally the month and year of the peak of the housing market. Paid 619K and whole block was literally talking how insane that was. Interesting, brand new his house was sold by builder in 1955 for $13,500 so what a price jump over just 50 years. Went up 46 times orginal price in 1955 to all time peak. So since guy was in his 30s and told us when he bought this was the house he was going to die in did he expect another 46X increase by time he died in his 80s, if so his split would be worth $ 28,474,000 by the time he died. Imagine property taxes on a 70×100 split with a $28 million assessed value.

    Meanwhile house is on sale for 499K now being reduced every month. Guy can’t keep up with month payments.

  15. gary says:

    Plenty of consumers are also afraid that home prices, down 30% or more from the peak, aren’t done falling. And it doesn’t look like they are: October’s median sales price was $162,500, down 4.7% from $170,600 a year earlier.

    Any Questions? B1tch?

  16. evildoc says:

    —-The housing market is stabilizing, but it has a long road to a full recovery,” —-

    Someone really should teach him about statistical noise.

  17. reinvestor101 says:

    I just read that the damn banks could lose $ 185 billion in deposits due in part to these stinking unemployed kids who have nothing better to do than be in the damn street protesting. I love my bank and I for one will never switch to a damn credit union. The damn credit unions are collectivist organizations that smack of socialism and there’s no way in hell any red blooded rock ribbed American could get involved with them. Credit Unions are a form of damn tyranny and they’re trying to assault the banks.

  18. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (20) re,

    Since BofA has been up against the deposit cap for some time now, it matters little to them. It also makes it easier for bank mergers as the local markets will be less concentrated. finally remember that depositors are liabilities for the banks. Yes, it affects their capacity to lend but that is avoidable and they aren’t lending anyway. So the occupy effort actually winds up helping the large banks.

  19. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    Make —

    You should be very proud of your daughter’s accomplishments so far.

    But I would be hesitant to skip a grade or two at this stage of her life. Keep her challenged with exercises outside of the “dumbed down curricula” of the standard school system. Show her what’s out there, beyond the basic grade school. Let her be a kid for a while longer.

    When she gets into High School, get her into Advanced Placement courses, which can count as College Credits. By the time she’s applying to Universities, she’ll have put together a very good “resume”

    If you’re going to skip a year……skip one of those expensive college semesters, rather than grade school.

  20. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (22) fiddy,

    Best advice thus far.

  21. make money says:

    Fab[13],

    Thought about that as well. It’s interesting that if she was a boy we wouldn’t even talk about this. So much for equal opportunity from own parents. Is it Ok to tell my daughter that she must right the word “Blue” ten times as part of her HW because other kids still don’t know how to spell it although she learned to spell it when she was 4? Is it Ok to tell her that the reason she can’t move up and learn new things in school is because I’m afraid of Joey “the linebacker” with a learners permit in 2018?

    Now days people in early 20’s are considered “kids”. If one doesn’t have a graduate degree they’re still not considered educated. Because we’re living longer, it seems like we have been slowly pre-dispositioned to grow up later in life.

    Is it better to go through life early and retire at 50 or have an simple long childhood and work until 60? That’s the question I have trouble answering.

  22. Juice Box says:

    Make – A little warning from another child prodigy about skipping grades. Ted Kaczynski was tested in the 5th grade and found to have an IQ of 167, he skipped the 6th grade which he described as a pivotal event in his life. He recalled not fitting in with the older children and being subjected to their bullying, he attended a public school. He developed a fear of people and buildings. Smarter people tend to to be much more sensitive especially when they are near ages 11-13. If you are going to skip her a grade do it now early since many kids are held back or ahead around this time in their life. You can always pick the smart ones out of the class when they are young.

  23. gryffindor says:

    Make – I think Fiddy has it right. Gear her up to be able to cut the time in college down. I remember going nuts in high school with AP courses and sports and extra curriculars. There were lots of other over-achievers in high school gunning with me so it didn’t seem odd at the time. It kept me busy and away from all the other nonsense that goes on in high school. I got to college and applied those AP credits to skip lots of introductory stuff and sat in my classes wondering why all the other students were so dumb. I had loads of free time on my hands in college, enough to leave a year early myself and I don’t regret it. Gave me a head start in grad school.

    I work with adolescents. BIG difference between a 11 year old and 14 year old. She will grow up too fast.

  24. gary says:

    Make,

    Do…. not…. skip…. a…. grade!! Period!

  25. JJ says:

    Work sucks why would anyone be in a rush to get to the real world by skipping grades. I proudly went to college for five years, luckily due to recession did not get first full time real job with a suit till October after senior year. Plus being young at work is not an advantage. My wife plowed through school at rate of 130 credits a year and started her job in banking the day after graduation. No one took her seriously as she was so young looking. She got a lot of can I talk to your boss as they did not believe she was an officer of the bank, by the time she looked old enough to be taken seriously she was already pigenholed as the girl in the cube. Time flies in odd ways at work. I had this girl who worked for me who was smart and started fresh out of school looked young to me at time, more like she should be my waitress at TGIF than working on wall street, whe was like 5 foot two inch 115 pounds and pretty. I knew she got engaged to college sweetheart, then married and all at once she announces she is going on maternity leave a few months after I paid for her MBA. She now wants to be mommy tracked with part time or flex schedule and according to my math by the time she is back she is hitting 30. Now this girl has a great undergraduate degree and MBA all with a high GPA. Sadly, in academics, medical or pharma that might mean something. But in the real world girls have it tough in one respect they need to play the game until their mid 30s and not start too young or act young.

    Even more case in point many years ago I worked with this girl Kelly on wall street. She started on Wall Street a week after graduation from HS, did college part time and graduated when she was 27. But no matter what she did she was always cute Kelly, people remember her from 18 when she was blonde, blue eyed and cute as a button. Now her Dad was a smart guy. I met him twice. When Kelly was 20-23 he kept telling her to cash out. He was a BSD with some JU-ICE but had no sons, Kelly was a pony and he needed a throughbred. He told Kelly grab one of those good looking Morgan Stanley or Smith Barney junior six foot two inch MBA good looking well spoken Irish Traders and let me push him to Managing Director before I retire and you give me grandkids. Alas Kelly decided she would do it herself. Last I saw her was a chance meeting when she was 33 stuck at a VP level non revenue producing job on wall street, put on 30 pounds and time has passed by. Too late to get that big job, too late to get that rich husband. Women have it very tough, in Kelly’s case the brass ring it turns out was her looks and youth at 20.

    Her dad trying to rope me in got me a traders interview at Morgan Stanley, which I got and I was excited till I opened paper next week and find MS took a huge loss and recinded all offer letters. Yikes. Sadly I got the best let down of my life by MS when they told me I should be proud to have beaten out 100 other candiates to get job offer, when I went I am but I sill don’t have a job, but he said imagine the other 99. They cant even get offered a job so they must be doing something wrong. Good news is if I got trader job I would have had to deal with Dad pushing daughter on me. Instead that fizzled out.

    Women on Wall Street is where smart girls belong. But Women have two games to play, husband and career and trying to cash out on both sometimes makes you end up lke Kelly cashing out on neigther.

  26. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [12] fabius

    Funny, but I never recall any serious rightie say no taxes, never.
    In reality, we differ on the definition of “fair share”. To those of you on the left, notably you, fair share means the burden is borne by someone other than you.

    And now, here is the Democratic perspective on taxes for those who aren’t democrats:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQqtvl2Ibzo

  27. The Original NJ Expat says:

    Skipping grades is even a bad idea for boys, maybe worse. I skipped 6th grade, went 5th to 7th, right into middle school where I didn’t know a soul. I was so messed up socially that I didn’t know which end was up even when I had enough credits to graduate HS at the end of my Junior year in HS. I was terrified about going away to college as 5′ 5″ barely 16 year old who wasn’t even shaving yet. I took advanced courses in HS my Senior year and went away to college as a gangly 5′ 11″ 17 year old instead, which worked out better. 6.5 years, two schools and about 5 majors later I emerged just fine, making up for lost (fun) time in college. Friends of mine who were born in 1960 like I was graduated college before I did even though I graduated HS two years ahead of them, so where was the advantage of skipping 6th grade?

  28. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [25] juice

    Yeah, but he blew the competition away!!!

  29. The Original NJ Expat says:

    BTW, I think my college major progressions was BioChemistry, Chemistry, Biology, History, and then I finally settled on Electrical Engineering with Computer Science emphasis so I could get a job when I got out. Transferred schools for my last 3 semesters so I could start my grade point average over again (credits transfer, grades don’t). Graduated with high honors and 3.52 from Fairleigh which worked out better than the 2.0 that I had locked in at Rutgers.

  30. JJ says:

    No way if you do this can you let your daughter go away to college. I had two pot dealers, one coke dealer, a pre-med guy who sold prescption pills and one guy who tripped on LSD on my hallway and keg parties and smell of pot was a 12 hour a day ritual as well as the co-ed showers and hook-up made it a feeding frenzy fro upper classman when new freshman arrived. One guy a senior I recall hooked up with this hot 17 year old girl as soon as she arrived, when she went home at Christmas she already had a huge coke habit, and was walking like she just rode a horse eight hours after around 200 times plus doing it. Now sending a 15 year old girl away to college that is scary. A 15 year old boy just will have a bad time as he won’t be able to get girls, drink or be too small for sports. A 15 year old girl you might as well have Sandusky babysit your ten year old boy.

    Fabius Maximus says:
    November 22, 2011 at 7:57 am
    Make,

    Daughters skipping grades is a bad idea. Social and physical developement really stands out. Then as a father you can get your worst nightmare. Your daughter hits freshman in high school and starts hanging out with her classmates who were held back and because of age cut off could be almost 3 years older than her.

    “Daddy, I love high school, my new friend Joey is a linebacker with a learners permit”

  31. JJ says:

    Fairly Riducolous, Harvard on the Highway

    The Original NJ Expat says:
    November 22, 2011 at 9:56 am
    BTW, I think my college major progressions was BioChemistry, Chemistry, Biology, History, and then I finally settled on Electrical Engineering with Computer Science emphasis so I could get a job when I got out. Transferred schools for my last 3 semesters so I could start my grade point average over again (credits transfer, grades don’t). Graduated with high honors and 3.52 from Fairleigh which worked out better than the 2.0 that I had locked in at Rutgers.

  32. The Original NJ Expat says:

    JJ #28 – I was very lucky to *not* graduate on time. If I graduated in 4 years I would have been released into the workforce May of 1981, not a good time at all. By f*cking around at college right through that recession, I was instead released right into the upswing in January ’84, graduating off semester. $26K to start, ended up getting promotions and 15% raises for the next 3 years. I thought it was supposed to continue like that forever.

  33. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    I came across this while researching something else. Funny what you will happen upon by accident.

    “I Support the 1%
    October 30, 2011 by Huston

    I am a public school teacher, but I choose not to hate or envy those whose hard work and innovation have brought them greater wealth than I have. They have taken nothing from me. My life is the result of my choices. Each of us is responsible for dealing with and improving our own circumstances.

    My house is only worth 1/3 of what I’m paying for it, but I will not scapegoat a small group of people whose work is related to New York’s financial district. I will not associate the illegal malfeasance of a very few with the wealthy population in general–such prejudiced thinking has always led to atrocities. Many of our country’s economic problems were caused by the reckless buying and poor preparation among us in the middle class, anyway. It’s time we grew up and admitted it.

    I’ve had difficulty paying bills on time and providing for my family, but I do not feel entitled to demand that wealthier people are obligated to bail me out. This is a free country, and we believe in private property.

    I have had student loans in the five figures. I paid them off by budgeting and sacrificing. Nobody forced me to take out those loans, and nobody else was responsible for paying them back.

    I pay no income taxes, yet I benefit from public services. I will not have the gall to impose upon the wealthy a convenient vision of what they “must” provide for others. There is no such thing as an objective “fair share.”

    I am the 99%, but I support the 1%.”

    http://gentlyhewstone.com/2011/10/30/i-support-the-1/

    BTW, Huston seems to have some pretty good insights. I loved her later post comparing Orwell to Ayn Rand.

  34. JJ says:

    In 86 my wall street firm gave raises every six months as turnover was high and you had to pay for talent. Pretty much if you gave a 10% raise next day person walked across street and switched jobs for another raise based off his new salary. We gave 8% raises every six months. I started at that firm at 19K a year and was told after ten years I would be making a fortune if they just continued giving out 8% raises every six months for the next ten years. Too bad October 1987 ended that.

    Pretty much bulk of raises over last 30 years were 1985-1986, 1996-2001 and 2004-2008. If you graduated school at start of a raise cycle you did well. Graduating early pays dividends big time if it gets you into front of a raise cycle.

    For instance the big four raised salaries for SOX demand, the class of 2004 started at a higher salary than 2002 and 2003 even when you factor in their two years worth of raises. Imagine busting your butt to graduate early in 2002 to start at 35K and the class of 2004 starts at 50K!

    The Original NJ Expat says:
    November 22, 2011 at 10:02 am
    JJ #28 – I was very lucky to *not* graduate on time. If I graduated in 4 years I would have been released into the workforce May of 1981, not a good time at all. By f*cking around at college right through that recession, I was instead released right into the upswing in January ’84, graduating off semester. $26K to start, ended up getting promotions and 15% raises for the next 3 years. I thought it was supposed to continue like that forever.

  35. The Original NJ Expat says:

    #36 – I pay no income taxes, yet I benefit from public services. I will not have the gall to impose upon the wealthy a convenient vision of what they “must” provide for others. There is no such thing as an objective “fair share.”

    Duh. No taxy payee, only taxy takee, why upset the apple cart? And if his or her house is worth 1/3 of what s/he is paying for it, where does that money come from and how much can the house be worth?

  36. make money says:

    Everyone,

    Thanks for all your inputs. I know its a good problem to have but it’s a problem. I was thinking that moving her up one or two years will be insignificant and probably not worth the risk. If I decide to expedite things it will be full throttle and race to finish 12th grade.
    She’s attending a private and intimately small school now and will do so until 12th grade. Wife and I are home and we spent all day together for the most part. She has access to every support mechanism available. There are 11 kids in her class with two teachers so chances of kids being rude is minimal. Most kids are somewhat advanced as well.
    Wish my wife will stop being Albanian for one day and tell me what she really thinks about this. She just keeps saying that its my decision and she’s sure I’ll make the right call. What if I don’t??

  37. JJ says:

    “Wish my wife will stop being Albanian for one day”

    Are we talking about education or shaving legs?

  38. grim says:

    Skipping grades?

    Damn, I thought everyone was timing births and holding kids back based on Gladwell’s outliers. Oldest and biggest in your kindergarten class has advantages, no?

  39. Fabius Maximus says:

    #29 Nom

    I think the grammer pol1ce want a word about your double nevers.

    I don’t consider myself leftist, but I am left of a few people, yourself included.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BqvWsSWmG90#at=85

  40. freedy says:

    http://hereisthecity.com/2011/11/22/im-part-of-the-statistics-reader-comment-on-job-losses/

    Presented for your viewing pleasure . Those who are out of work in the NYC area.

  41. make money says:

    Are we talking about education or shaving legs?

    JJ,

    Good one. Guys like you and me knew better than to marry the hottest chick we met or the best BJ award recipient.

  42. Juice Box says:

    re: #41 -Grim – Oldest and Biggest in kindergarten class? The games to obtain or achieve something start younger than 5 or 6 years old. Even when there are two adults watching a small class in daycare of one year olds there is still some tussling going on. I have seen children that are towering at one years old. My son had to learn to tussle with another kid in day care who looked and weighed like he was three years old when he was only one. Turns out the big kid’s Russian parents are both over 6’2″ with large frames. My kid was smarter he figured out how to topple the bigger, slower kid. It was a move I will always be proud of, and one for I received a few warnings since they thought I taught it to him :)

    My son was born at the end of October. He will be in private school for Kindergarten where he will still be 4 years old. If we sent him to public Kindergarten the cutoff in NJ is November but there is no way I am starting him at age 4 with kids who are 5 or even 6 in a public school setting. Since he already is a social animal at his day care and will be 2.5 soon he will be moving up to preschool at the end of February. I know he will do fine since he already has the cognitive skills and emotional skills to deal with being younger than other children but only at a smaller private school for now.

  43. freedy says:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzner/2011/11/22/1-7-billion-customers-money-missing-from-mf-global/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

    As we approach the Holidays ,we’re now missing almost 2 billion. Jon relaxes with the wife and his turkey .

  44. gary says:

    freedy [46],

    But at least he cares about the middle class. After all, he’s a democrat and we all know democrats care about clean air, clean water, tax cuts for hardworking Americans and education.

  45. The Original NJ Expat says:

    #37 JJ – You’re right about those good raise years and getting in at the right time in the raise cycle. I worked for a defense contractor, so we were soaking up those Reagan contracts in the mid 80’s. As a kid, you never realized where all the money was coming from, but we were hiring about 80 engineers off-semester and another 140 in May-June, year in, year out. Even though we were salary we got shift differential (start your work day at 5AM and get 15% added on to your gross) and overtime (straight time, not time-and-a-half) but you had to work a minimum of 10 hours. So we were all working our 50 and the smarter of us made a case to work 3rd shift (get out early and get to the Jersey shore faster on Fridays), it was a great time to be single and employed. I worked with other guys who were in just a few years earlier and they were miserable. Married with kids, part of a van pool so they couldn’t work odd shifts or get shift differential. I knew one guy who used to deliver papers with his wife every morning for peanuts before they put the kids in daycare/school and they both went to their jobs. His way of getting over was that he rented video tapes from the local rental store and went home and made illegal copies of the with his two VCRs for his awesome video library. That was all I need to see as the way not to go, or at least not go for the next 20 years.

  46. Fabius Maximus says:

    Don’t forget why we pay taxes!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ69X1qt4sQ

  47. JJ says:

    NFLX is a train wreck the convt bond offering last night basically sold $200M of itself at $85-ISH [convert strike price] and meanwhile earlier this year it bought $200M of its stock in buybacks at $222.

    Even the govt couldn’t do such a bad deal.

  48. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (42) fab,

    Still haven’t figured out how to insert quotation marks with VR. And I plan to sic the spelling police on you.

    As for how you perceive yourself, remember beauty, or progressivism in your case, is in the eye of the beholder. You don’t consider yourself left, but I think nearly everyone else here does.

  49. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nom [51];

    I reassured a true communist acquaintance recently, when he lamented what he perceived as a proliferation of reactionary ideologues in politics, that they only outnumber the communists because all the “real” leftists have starved to death.

    I guess as long as Fab continues to feed himself from his own labor, he’s a running dog capitalist pig like the rest of us.

  50. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    The Messiah is in Manchester, and I noticed how diverse the crowd behind him is. A recurring theme, but in NH, I think they had to bus in the diversity from Mass.

  51. wtf says:

    (36) That must be one of the many e-mail chain letter that right-wingers circulate to each other to make themselves feel better about being pr*cks.

  52. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Also, to suggest that Manchester reflects NH is like suggesting that Camden reflects NJ.

  53. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (54) wtf,

    I gave you the link. See for yourself who Huston is, then come back.

    BTW, if you are a lawyer, I want to be opposite you whenever possible.

  54. A.West says:

    Comrade (36),
    Interesting pointer to the Ayn Rand/Orwell tie-in. The chickens broke their creations to prevent the pigs from eating them. The same thing in essence occurred in both The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.
    Even the bible covers this concept:
    “Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and tear you.”

  55. reinvestor101 says:

    >>>Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    November 22, 2011 at 9:14 am

    (20) re,

    Since BofA has been up against the deposit cap for some time now, it matters little to them. It also makes it easier for bank mergers as the local markets will be less concentrated. finally remember that depositors are liabilities for the banks. Yes, it affects their capacity to lend but that is avoidable and they aren’t lending anyway. So the occupy effort actually winds up helping the large banks.<<<

    I read that a few weeks back that the banks don't want any more deposits anyway as the market swoon has turned them into money warehouses–and that's why they were starting to charge for the privilege. As long as the ECB/IMF/Fed cooperate, they'll be fine. The inexorable move to virtual money also helps them as they get a slice of every transaction and they own the politicians the world over. Yes, I'd say they're in a fairly strong position, notwithstanding folks fleeing the banks for credit unions. But just the same, I can not allow my money to remain in their clutches.

  56. The Original NJ Expat says:

    #36 Invalid assumption Nom – BTW, Huston seems to have some pretty good insights. I loved *her* later post comparing Orwell to Ayn Rand.</

    http://gentlyhewstone.com/about/

    Make sure to scroll down and read the "25 random things about me:" part. He has 5 children, is on his second wife and none of the 25 things mentions his kids. He is a self-absorbed low income who is clearly no gem, but certainly thinks of himself as one. In other words, he’s like the rest of us here, except he’s broke;-)

  57. The Original NJ Expat says:

    #59 should have said low income “fill-in-the-blank” who…

    but the left and right angle brackets got taken as html and made italics where I didn’t intend them. Oh well.

  58. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (59) expat,

    Yep. He blogs like a girl. Didn’t scope him out until later.

    As for him personally, I didn’t think to get into character assassination as I didn’t think it relevant, but if it works for you, well …

  59. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (57) west,

    Did not think of that, but did observe that the same tactic was used by farmers who protested low farm commodity prices.

  60. The Original NJ Expat says:

    61 – Nom Yep. He blogs like a girl.

    You assumed he was a woman and then when set straight on the facts state he blogs like a girl…and I’m the character assassin? All I said was he’s just like us (thinks he’s a gem, but he’s not), just not as well off.

  61. Happy Renter says:

    Wait — what do you mean I’m not a gem?

    Oh, yeah — I’m a renter. I forgot. ;-)

  62. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (63) expat,

    Did I say that blogging like a girl was negative? Your assumption shows your bias.

  63. The Original NJ Expat says:

    #65 Well played, Nancy.

  64. Confused in NJ says:

    ..THE RETURN OF DEBTORS PRISONS: Collection Agencies Now Want Deadbeats Arrested

    ..By Henry Blodget

    As if life wasn’t already tense enough for Americans who can’t pay their debts, collection agencies are now taking advantage of archaic state laws to have some debtors arrested and sent to jail.

    More than one-third of US states allow debtors to be arrested and jailed, says Jessica Silver-Greenberg in the Wall Street Journal.

    Judges typically grant arrest warrants when the debtors have failed to show up for court dates or failed to make court-ordered payments.

    Of course, the reason debtors have failed to make court-ordered payments is often the same reason they didn’t pay their debts in the first place: They don’t have any money.

    In September, a 53 year-old woman named Vivian Joy was stopped for a broken tail-light in Champaign, Illinois. And then, because the cops discovered that she still hadn’t paid $2,200 to a collection agency, she was cuffed and carted off to jail.

    Joy’s excuse?

    She doesn’t have any money.

    Jailing debtors for not paying their debts is apparently especially popular in Illinois.

    (This practice, needless to say, is preposterous. If people can’t pay their debts and have no prospect of being able to pay their debts, they should declare bankruptcy. And the debts should be written off. Companies don’t go to jail when they default. Neither should people.)

    ..

  65. Juice Box says:

    Expat and Nom – Did you read anything else on that blog? How about one of the 200 or so entries on Religion?

    “I remain convinced that the only path to civilization renewal is a return to orthodox religiosity”

  66. JJ says:

    No way do we need any more orthodox religiosity, I went to a temple party once in five towns as they had dollar heinikens, man oh man went to the kosher pizza next door and go pizza with meatballs was some type of velveta non-cheese concocation with meatballs so I threw up a plastic pizza in the parking lot. At least the Baptists who are kooks got some good eats.

    Juice Box says:
    November 22, 2011 at 1:54 pm
    Expat and Nom – Did you read anything else on that blog? How about one of the 200 or so entries on Religion?

    “I remain convinced that the only path to civilization renewal is a return to orthodox religiosity

  67. Painhrtz - I ain't dead yet says:

    juice that is where that guy lost me. Morals need not be the sole dominion of the religous, there are plenty of us who try to lead a good life without seeking the approval of the invisible sky wizard. Christians can do more to be more like Christ, and for pink unicorns sake the bible isn’t fact. It is a bunch of parables to keep tribes from becoming fornicating diseased uncivilized roaving bands of barbarians. It is the everything I needed I learned in Kindergarten handbook for the masses.

  68. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (Junk In The Trunk Edition):

    More allege botched buttocks surgery by fake doc
    (AP) — Several possible victims have come forward alleging a woman posing as a Florida doctor and promising buttocks enhancement pumped their behinds with a toxic concoction of cement, superglue and flat-tire sealant, state health officials said Tuesday.

    Oneal Ron Morris — who police say was born a man and identifies as a woman — was arrested Friday after nearly a year of being sought and charged with practicing medicine without a license with serious bodily injury. Authorities say a victim who was looking to get a job at a nightclub and wanted a curvier figure paid Morris $700 for the injections in 2010. Morris allegedly used some type of tubing and inserted the toxic chemicals into her backside during a painful procedure.

    The victim, who is not being identified due to medical privacy laws, suffered permanent scarring around the injection sites. Shortly after the surgery, she went to the hospital, but left because she was too embarrassed to tell doctors about the procedure. The victim required multiple surgeries and had a 24-hour home health aide for an extended period of time, according to a statement from the Department of Health.

    State health officials said Tuesday that several possible victims have since come forward alleging Morris performed similar procedures resulting in life-threatening injuries.

    The 30-year-old Morris has since been released from jail on a bond. A phone listing for Morris could not be found, and it’s unclear if Morris has an attorney. Police say Morris performed the same surgery on herself.

    Authorities said Morris may be part of an underground plastic surgery ring in South Florida. Health officials said additional arrests are possible, but did not elaborate because it’s an ongoing investigation.

    Investigators spent nearly a year tracking Morris throughout South Florida and said she moved frequently.

    State health officials are encouraging other potential victims to contact them.

  69. Happy Renter says:

    [67] “This practice, needless to say, is preposterous. If people can’t pay their debts and have no prospect of being able to pay their debts, they should declare bankruptcy. And the debts should be written off. Companies don’t go to jail when they default. Neither should people.”

    Nothing new; for decades, men have been jailed for failure to pay child support, even if the reason they couldn’t pay is because they don’t have any money. What’s good for the gander is good for Vivian Joy . . .

  70. JJ says:

    [IMG]http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h398/Alkrotraz/mark-gastinueau.jpg[/IMG]

    To get you pumped up for Sundays game!

  71. Juice Box says:

    re: #69 – JJ – His version of orthodoxy is more inclined to having multiple wives and hijacking wagon trains crossing the Rockies on their way to California.

  72. trucacashan says:

    Buy health and beauty products online from the UKs most popular chemist, Boots. How many pills – [url=http://viager-alternatives.order-vigra.info/canada-viager.html]canada viager austin[/url] – medic!!pharmacology test bank questions durable medical equipment donations california!

  73. The Original NJ Expat says:

    #74 – Juice Box – multiple wives:

    Bigamy – Having one wife too many.

    Monogamy – Some contend it has the same definition.

  74. Juice Box says:

    Expat – you can have all the ex-wives you can afford.

  75. Painhrtz - I ain't dead yet says:

    Great now we have German bots, Underground plastic surgery, thsi crap has been going on for years. Listen if somebody offers you cut rate surgery I say buyer beware. Prosecute the idiot for practicing medicine without a license that is it, and the other moron for being dumb.

  76. joyce says:

    80
    let people practice medicine without a license, buyer beware

  77. Anon E. Moose says:

    seif [76];

    Eight pages to expand of the thesis ‘FOX News sucks!’ ? *Yawn*

  78. JJ says:

    marriage is just legalized prositution for women. there I said it.

  79. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [66] expat

    I got yer Nancy right here.

  80. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [68] Juice

    No, why would I?

    [77] expat

    “Bigamy – Having one wife too many.

    Monogamy – Some contend it has the same definition.”

    I love it! But I would shorten it as follows:

    Bigamy – Having one wife too many.

    Monogamy – Same thing.

  81. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [82] moose,

    Like any good Fox viewer, I didn’t finish reading it.

  82. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [67] confused

    I think if you dig deeper, she wasn’t jailed for debt, she was jailed for contempt. And you can be jailed for contempt, which is refusing to comply with a court’s order.

    She can purge the contempt if she can prove she is broke. Of course, we have a process for doing this-it’s called bankruptcy. And even a court-ordered judgment can be discharged in that event.

  83. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Okay, some red meat for the board econ. majors.

    Krugman calls for a 70% tax rate on job creators (his words, not mine).

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/taxing-job-creators/?nl=opinion&emc=tyb1

    I know what meat will say, and I’ll say it as well: Let’s give it a try; what’s the worst that can happen?

  84. chicagofinance says:

    We need South Korean style politics…..

    South Korean lawmakers tear gas rivals

  85. seif says:

    sorry…i know 8 sentences is a little too long for fox news viewers, let alone 8 pages.

  86. Fabius Maximus says:

    #52 anon

    “I guess as long as Fab continues to feed himself from his own labor, he’s a running dog capitalist pig like the rest of us.”

    Nothing wrong with that. I happily refer to my dear mother as “a Marxist with capitalist tendancies” My own views are close to the libetrians on fiscal policy, but with a big social contract which goes to the other end of the spectrum.

  87. Bocephus says:

    82. What about kept men?

  88. Bocephus says:

    Illinois jailing people for debt? Ironic.

  89. JJ says:

    I am writing year end reviews today, being jailed for debt looks good about now.

  90. Anon E. Moose says:

    seif [89];

    sorry…i know 8 sentences is a little too long for fox news viewers, let alone 8 pages.

    Just because someone said 8 pages worth of it doesn’t make it any more worthy of the electrons killed to download it.

    One can’t make omelettes out of bad eggs, no matter how many eggs are used.

  91. The Original NJ Expat says:

    marriage is just legalized prostitution for women.

    …combined with insurance. The premium keeps going up, but the benefits often get downsized. In some cases the husband pays the premium while other insureds receive the benefit.

  92. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [84] Nom I love it! But I would shorten it as follows:

    Bigamy – Having one wife too many.

    Monogamy – Same thing.

    Good work. I approve this edit.

  93. cobbler says:

    nom [87]
    The problem is trying to differentiate high-income taxpayers, and I am not sure it can be solved. E.g., if a highly reputable neurosurgeon is taxed at a 70% marginal rate, he’d probably operate less – it probably will not affect the jobs number as someone else will operate instead with all the assistants, nurses, etc. – but maybe more people will die which is obviously an undesirable effect. If say LinkedIn engineer who cashes in his options is taxed at 70% he may actually work more: instead of quitting and going to live on an island in the South Pacific he may have to continue working. Venture capitalist will likely invest less, which is a clear minus. Hedge fund manager (referred to by Krugman) will probably not do anything different if his rate is 70% instead of 15%…
    I’d probably start with taxing the capital gains from selling the assets that had been publicly traded in both sell and buy transactions, at a full marginal rate – or maybe even at a premium rate in some situations (e.g. HFT, or for the taxpayers with more than $ 10 mln income, etc.).

  94. Fabius Maximus says:

    Despair (just for Nom)

  95. yo'me says:

    Let us not forget there is a difference between a Corporate tax rate and earned income tax rate.A surgeon that owns the corporation will have different tax rate.If he gets salary from his corporation he files for individual income.Corporate tax rate is alot less than individual.To say the surgeon is not going to operate because he has to pay more in taxes does not sound right.

    The job creator are in the corporate tax rate (owner of business) and workers that derive (salary) income from their corporation or workers working for a corporation do not create jobs.

  96. yo says:

    If I formed a business classified as LLC.Business is making 1M a year.Business tax rate is 34% not counting deductions,with deductions it will be alot less.If individual income above 500K, tax rate is increase to 70%.I own the company why will I take a salary of more than 500K to pay 70% tax?Compare this to a person making 700K from wall street.The Wall street guy don’t create jobs.He pays 70% in taxes that creates more revenue.

    This idea might create more entrepreneur because the business owner pay less taxes

  97. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (100) fabius

    That got a LOL. BTW, my mother is also a Marxist with capitalist tendencies.

  98. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Yikes. Okay, I opened a can that time. Understand that Krugman is talking policy in theory, and is not accounting for the current IRC. He’d have to change a lot to get his rate through, which would be a top marginal rate. Also, he acknowledges, but doesn’t really address, elasticity and distortion, which had been the problem in the past.

  99. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Krugman is also assuming two other truisms that might not be so:

    1.) The increased “revenue” (don’t you love this new euphemism for taxes?) is efficiently passed down to the poor, with not too big a vig by state and federal emplyees. Anybody believe that?

    2.) That even if 1.) above is true, does it really benefit society? Just like we all agree, I think, that there is a point of diminishing returns for the cost of a college education, isn’t there also some point of diminishing returns for funds redistributed to the poor?

    We’ve already eliminated starvation in the US, haven’t we? So everyone is now fed. What next? Houses and iPads and Flat screens for everyone and nothing but huge growth in the wake of that social investment?

  100. cobbler says:

    Ex-Pat [106]
    I don’t think any increased funds should be given to the current recipients – but I’d like to see the govt as the employer of last resort, de facto setting the minimum wage at a level eliminating the need for foodstamps and housing subsidies for the able-bodied.
    I’d also set up a nationwide 100% merit-based scholarship program allowing free college education for the best 10% of the nation’s students, while eliminating any taxpayer subsidy (loans, grants, whatever) for those that are failing.

  101. Shore Guy says:

    “I’d also set up a nationwide 100% merit-based scholarship program allowing free college education for the best 10% of the nation’s students, while eliminating any taxpayer subsidy (loans, grants, whatever) for those that are failing.”

    Makes sense, except I would allow loans/grants for those who enroll in a community college and excel. it provides a second chance to succeed.

  102. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    #107 – cobbler I don’t think any increased funds should be given to the current recipients – but I’d like to see the govt as the employer of last resort, de facto setting the minimum wage at a level eliminating the need for foodstamps and housing subsidies for the able-bodied.
    I’d also set up a nationwide 100% merit-based scholarship program allowing free college education for the best 10% of the nation’s students, while eliminating any taxpayer subsidy (loans, grants, whatever) for those that are failing.

    Well administrated, I think all of initiatives are excellent programs. When I was a stupid teenager I just figured there was already a system where you took a test and if you scored high enough you went to college free, I never expected my college education would cost them a dime. Of course I was wrong, but at least it didn’t cost too many dimes back then. Rutgers with room/board and as many credits as you dared was $2600 per year. Can’t send your kids away for a summer for $2600 these days, imagine getting a college degree plus room and board for just over $10K? Merit based free college education is even better, AFAIAC. As we all know, the devil is in the details.

  103. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    cost them a dime = my parents

  104. cobbler says:

    shore [108]
    Community college is pretty affordable without extra help (taxpayers already subsidize it in a major way), methinks if a person can hold a “last resort job” – see proposal 1 – there will be enough, maybe with some scrimping, to pay for it. And if he/she does reasonably well there, the grant/loan system will stay in place… we just can’t tolerate places like JC “University” where >90% of the students get aid, and <30% graduate in 6 years.

  105. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    #111 cobbler – You’re preaching to the choir.

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  108. Kiinteistön says:

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Comments are closed.