How North Jersey came to be

From the Record:

Our growing ‘City of North Jersey’: How we got here and where we are going

It’s not surprising that Englewood chose to name its high school for Dwight Morrow, a city resident who was a U.S. senator, an ambassador to Mexico and a powerful Wall Street banker. However, Morrow’s most enduring influence might have come through a position that doesn’t even rate a mention in his Wikipedia entry.

Morrow served on the influential 10-member committee that fashioned the 1929 “Regional Plan of New York and Its Environs,” the first master plan for any city or region in the country. That multivolume agenda became a seminal blueprint for the growth of New York City and the entire metropolitan area, and, in the eyes of many, codified the strategy that perpetuated the city’s role of dominance on the world scene.

As it turned out, by virtually laying out the structure of roads that serves as the region’s circulatory system and projected path of development, it also helped to create something unanticipated. Call it the City of North Jersey, the place we live and work in now.

The plan consisted of two parts: a highway system west of the Hudson and around New York City, and an economic transformation that turned New York City from an industrial-era engine comprising small manufacturers employing low-paid factory workers into a world-class city of concrete and glass office towers where banks, investment houses, insurance companies, real estate and legal firms did business and their mostly well-off workers lived.

These “clean” enterprises were the designated “highest and best uses” of the valuable real estate in Manhattan’s massive central business district. Spreading out from it in spokes and in concentric rings would be the highways — the plan paid scant attention to mass transit systems — that would filter factories and lower-priced residences through a megalopolis designed to serve Manhattan’s needs.

But a funny thing happened. North Jersey developed — in a big way, and pretty much according to the original highway design, tripling the population of the communities served by those highways since 1930.

The highway grid in the plan looks much the way it appears today: A big peripheral highway, 287; highways sprouting from one existing Hudson River crossing (the Holland Tunnel) and five anticipated crossings (three eventually became reality), Routes 4, 46, 208, 3 and 280, 80 and 95; and four north-south highways, the New Jersey Turnpike, the Garden State Parkway, Routes 17 and 9. Highways that fed into the George Washington Bridge and the Tappan Zee Bridge connected to the eastern half of the larger peripheral system that moved vehicular traffic around New York City.

North Jersey adopted its own version of “highest and best use.” Single-family housing soaked up blank spaces between the highway grid. Regional malls sprawled along the intersections. Midrise commercial buildings and hotels went up along the highways and in the Meadowlands. High-rise apartments came to Fort Lee, Hackensack and northern Hudson County.

Pretty soon, North Jersey had the looks of, well, a city. Not the dense, concrete-and-glass, high-rise prototype that identifies most of the world’s modern cities, but a hybrid that mixes those elements with the expansive, haphazard collection of housing, offices and malls typical of American suburbs.

To be sure, many pressures beyond the agenda of the 1929 plan pushed the development of the City of North Jersey. Already in place in 1930 were the industrial cities of Hudson, Bergen and Passaic counties. It was an era when Garfield was Bergen’s largest municipality, and Fairview was bigger than Paramus.

White flight, tax policies that favored home ownership over renting, the GI Bill and the rise of the automobile as the nation’s preferred form of mass transportation also encouraged the move out of the big cities to the more rural towns of North Jersey.

With the population growth, other development followed: Malls to sell merchandise to a ready and growing public; corporate headquarters to capitalize on a labor force unwilling to travel long distances for jobs (with lower real estate costs to boot for businesses). Between 1981 and 1986, Bergen County absorbed 13 million square feet of new office space, more than the 14 buildings of the original Rockefeller Center, completed a half-century earlier.

This entry was posted in Economics, New Development, North Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

112 Responses to How North Jersey came to be

  1. grim says:

    From the Washington Post:

    Low-ball bidders in many markets learn they can no longer get a steal on a house

    It’s not something that economists routinely track, but it provides a rough sense of what’s happening in local real estate markets. Call it the low-ball index.

    A year ago, according to researchers at the National Association of Realtors, one out of 10 members surveyed in a monthly poll complained about low-ball offers on houses listed for sale. In the latest survey — conducted in March among 4,500 agents and brokers across the country but not yet released — there were hardly any. Instead, the focus of volunteered comments has shifted to declining inventory levels — fewer houses available to sell — and multiple offers on well-priced listings.

    A low-ball offer typically involves a contract submitted to a seller where the price proposed by the purchaser is 25 percent or more below list. Low-balls increase sharply when there’s a glut of properties available, asking prices are out of sync with local economic realities and values are depressed or uncertain. Buyers figure: Hey, why not? Maybe I’ll get lucky.

    Based on the latest survey results, that sort of strategy is not a winning move in many communities this spring. In fact, in local markets where inventories are tight and competition for homes rising, realty agents say that buyers looking to steal houses by low-balling their offers are ending up at the back of the line, their contracts either rejected out of hand or countered close to the original asking price.

    In high-demand, high-cost markets that have rebounded from recession slumps, sellers are now firmly in control; they pay scant attention to low-ballers.

    Jayne Esposito, an agent with Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage in Los Gatos, Calif., says that multiple offers are “the rule, not the exception,” in her area, and many transactions end up with final contract prices higher than the listing. “Sure, I’ve had a few buyers try to low-ball, and they wouldn’t listen,” she said in an interview, “but that didn’t work out well for them.”

    Similar trends are underway in more moderately priced markets.

    Wes Neal, an agent at Prudential Olympia in Olympia, Wash., said “low-ball offers are down a lot because we’re seeing more homes come on the market that are more realistically priced.” Sellers have absorbed the hard lessons of the recession years about what the market can bear.

    Even when buyers submit shockingly low bids, sellers no longer are so insulted that they send the contract back without a counteroffer. Now they negotiate aggressively, and the final number ends up close to the original asking price. For example, Neal said, a buyer recently came in with a bottom-fishing offer of $150,000 on a house listed for $250,000. Though the seller was irritated, after a series of negotiations the low-ball buyer settled for a final price of $230,000.

    The takeaway here: Rolling low-balls at sellers may have been an effective approach between 2008 and early 2011. But in 2012’s environment — at least in rebounding markets — it could be counterproductive if you truly want to buy.

  2. NJ Real Estate and History Report.

  3. Still, we hurtle at 140 mph toward the edge of the cliff.

    Doom is imminent.

  4. grim says:

    2 – I thought it was interesting, they’ve got a nice graphic of the proposed vs actual maps.

  5. grim says:

    Always tough to really pinpoint exactly what a lowball is. Half the issue is the asking price, especially since market rate offers on an overpriced property really aren’t lowballs. If we’re talking 25% discount to market? These kinds of sales have always been very rare and are the reasons behind them are largely situational and not market driven.

  6. grim says:

    If we’re talking about discount to ask, this whole piece is more about the unrealistic asking prices we’ve seen over the last few years and the more recent seller capitulation.

  7. gary says:

    …this whole piece is more about the unrealistic asking prices we’ve seen over the last few years and the more recent seller capitulation.

    The ramp up will continue in our neck of the woods. Keep your eye on the further deterioration of white collar jobs here along with lung-piercing property taxes. We’re headed for 1990s level of pricing. Sellers frappuccinos to each other is not an indication of a robust economy.

  8. gary says:

    Sellers = Selling

  9. Brass Balls says:

    S&P Futures are down 14+pts and Dow Futures are down 138 pts.

    Watch the open!! Fun times are coming back!

  10. chicagofinance says:

    Shore: I was 12-20 years old when he was in the Presidential sphere…most of my perception was built around being in high school social studies in a Manhattan public school. I will take fact over anecdotal evidence any day. I just don’t want to be colored (smeared) as some republican voice when my main motivation is to advocate kicking the hack out of the White House.

    Shore Guy says:
    April 23, 2012 at 12:06 am
    We have to agree to disagree on RR. I had the pleasure of serving him and I have the deepest respect for him.

  11. livinginpa says:

    Grim, great point that the article makes no mention of the unrealistic ask that a LOT of sellers put on their homes, particularly in the “luxury” market. In the face of 20-25% list to sale ratios, I see sellers only emoldened by the BS media headlines that the economy is improving etc. So, “lowball” (25% less than list price as defined in article) offers, here, are actually right in line with the comps. Too bad, this article will only embolden these crazy sellers and their crazy broker even more. Really starting to question my move.

  12. chicagofinance says:

    Are you going to the muni thing on 5/8?

    Brass Balls says:
    April 23, 2012 at 9:14 am
    S&P Futures are down 14+pts and Dow Futures are down 138 pts.

    Watch the open!! Fun times are coming back!

  13. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Silver getting pounded, but gold not down so much. Traditional ag volatility or suugestion of a downturn?

  14. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Lots of coverage of Walmart and the FCPA charge. Walmart getting hammered in premkt. Wonder how much this is depressing the tape?

  15. chicagofinance says:

    Borat Obama: high five?

    ‘Borat’ travel boom makes benefit glorious nation of Kazakhstan
    NEWSCORE

    Kazakhstan — Kazakhstan is finally seeing the funny side of Sacha Baron Cohen’s “Borat,” after cashing in on a tourist boom inspired by the British comedian’s magnificently-mustachioed adventurer.

    The Central Asian nation reacted with fury when “Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan” hit the screens in 2006, and banned it from being shown.

    But with visa applications up tenfold, Foreign Minister Erzhan Kazykhanov admitted that maybe the “mockumentary” was not quite such a disaster after all, Kazakh news website Tengri News reported.

    Since the movie hit the screen, the number of visas [for those wanting to travel to Kazakhstan] has grown tenfold. For us, it is a great victory. I am grateful to the [spoof journalist] Borat, the main character of the movie, for tourists’ keen interest to Kazakhstan,” Kazykhanov told lawmakers Monday.

    Kazakhstan is still struggling to shake off the spell of “Borat,” as evidenced last month when the movie’s spoof anthem was accidentally played during a medal ceremony at a shooting championship in Kuwait.

    “I would treat the movie from the philosophical point of view,” the foreign minister said.

  16. 3B says:

    #8 gary 1990’s pricing is already available in BF, DUM, and NM in Bergen Co.

  17. Anon E. Moose says:

    Gary [9];

    Sellers = Selling

    Nice. Listing==I’ve got the winning ticket for this Saturday’s PowerBall!

  18. gary says:

    Moose [18],

    LOL! My typo took on a whole different meaning!

  19. gary says:

    3B,

    What’s your opinion on New Milford? Do you think the Southern Dumont and Bergenfield influence is taking over? Is it getting a little “sketchy” in NM as well?

  20. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [19] moose,

    Yup.

  21. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [19] moose,

    Read that piece last night. I think we are looking at the third wave of law firm demises in my recollection.

    I have always said that law firms are ethereal things. Even partnership doesn’t equal security.

  22. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Heard chosen one committing us to intervene in African conflicts. Also subtly taking credit for prior intervention successes by Clinton and bush.

  23. seif says:

    “Typically, banks get about 20% less for a foreclosed home. Foreclosure can also take years to unload, during which expenses, like property taxes, insurance and other expenses, mount up.”

    grim – is there a typical % for short sales that get closed?

  24. joyce says:

    you’ll be waiting until you or your children are outright slaves

    94.Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    April 23, 2012 at 9:02 am
    [82] joyce,

    I’m perfectly content to wait for the final score.

  25. Grim says:

    Foreclosure discounts? In NJ?

    There is no discount, they sell at market, the issue is that folks try to comp a foreclosure against a non-distressed sale, and it doesn’t work.

    Just about every foreclosure or abandoned short I’ve seen is in disrepair and required a significant amount of work.

    I work with clients all the time that think they are going to find a move in ready, pottery barn show house in foreclosure. They are usually gagging by the third listing and asking me why I wasted their day. I usually ask them the same question.

    They aren’t bargains, they are priced 20% below market because they need 60 grand in work.

  26. gary says:

    With the population growth, other development followed: Malls to sell merchandise to a ready and growing public; corporate headquarters to capitalize on a labor force unwilling to travel long distances for jobs (with lower real estate costs to boot for businesses). Between 1981 and 1986, Bergen County absorbed 13 million square feet of new office space, more than the 14 buildings of the original Rockefeller Center, completed a half-century earlier.

    Now, the ballon is contracting. Jobs have moved out of state and/or have been outsourced permanently. What’s left is the premier site known as snagaj0b dot c0m. So, the question still begs: Sell? Sell to f*cking whom?

  27. seif says:

    27 – what about homes that aren’t abandoned? not every short or foreclosure is empty. I recently saw 2 shorts with renters currently living in them.

  28. Nicholas says:

    I really have to apologize here guys.

    The reason why there are significantly fewer lowball offers is because I stopped making offers on homes in 2008. I would come across a litter box and it would be priced at 400k when you just knew in your heart that it was worth 175k tops. At the time I was young and had time and energy to burn, but now I’m older and have responsibilities, I just can’t keep up with the demanding schedule of writing low ball offer after low ball offer.

    I decided that it would just be better for us all if I withdrew from the market all together and waited until house prices stopped falling before I made more offers.

    Data in my area indicates that price paid to originial list price is around 90-92%. During the boom it sat at somewhere near 100-102%. This clearly indicates that we are in a buyers market. To me that means that if you pay the listing price then you were not thinking it through very well. A 10% markdown from list is average and to me indicates that lowball offers are not only still in effect but are being accepted.

    Who dafuq indicated that 25% was an official “low-ball”? Low-ball == below list price in my opinion.

  29. Shore Guy says:

    “Heard chosen one committing us to intervene in African conflicts. ”

    Well, duh! We have to have somewhere to fight when we pull out of Afghanistan.

  30. Shore Guy says:

    Besides, Nom. The Horn of Africa is a basketcase with true potential to bite us in the hind quarters here in North America and Rare Earths and other essential elements are found there and China is buying the loyalty of many nations who have valuable raw materials or are next to nations that do.

    Proxy war anyone?

  31. Another day in hell.

  32. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nom [23];

    I have always said that law firms are ethereal things. Even partnership doesn’t equal security.

    I recall when Morgan & Finnegan announced they were disbanding in Feb ’09, I went to their website to see if they had some sort of press release posted. The most recent press release was their announcement of the new class of partners to begin the year, one of whom I knew. Ouch.

    M&F had just taken a two floors in the recently re-constructed Three World Financial Center. Some years earlier I remember hearing that the problems plauging Pennie & Edmonds came to a head when the partnership faced being personally liable for a new 10-year lease in their midtown space.

    Seems like real estate problems are the downfall of many entities, not just people and their houses.

  33. Anon E. Moose says:

    Seif [29];

    what about homes that aren’t abandoned? not every short or foreclosure is empty. I recently saw 2 shorts with renters currently living in them.

    Just one more substantial hurdle to clear. In addition to getting all the players at the table to agree, you have to deal with a tennant who may or may not cooperate on leaving in a timely fashion. Go try to get him out, and let me know how that works out. I’ll pass, thanks.

    If I had any designs on occupying a short sale home after purchase, I wouldn’t even consider it if the seller was not witholding payments and commited to continue doing so until closing; the bank will get whet they get then. That’s the only motivation the bank has to move. In fact, banks will commonly stall by telling sellers that they would only consider the short sale if payments are being made — after 6-9 months of which they say “no”, having successfully kicked the can down the road and squeezed the bagholder for another $20k in the interim.

  34. Brass Balls says:

    Happy to report that EF Hutton is back in business. Per WSJ today. My favorite is the only large investment bank untainted by the 2008/2009 Financial Crisis. Actually they were untainted by Y2K also!

  35. seif says:

    35

    the one i looked at has a tenant that is out in July. they are short-term, while another home undergoes reno. also, i occupy a home that could have short sale potential. getting the tenant out – or keeping me in – wouldn’t be an issue.

    also, new short sale rules are going into effect in June:

    Earlier this week, the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA), which oversees Fannie Mae (FNMA, Fortune 500) and Freddie Mac (FRE), announced the new guidelines, which will also require lenders to review and respond to short sale requests within 30 days and provide weekly status updates to the borrower if the offer is still under review after that time.

  36. chicagofinance says:

    If you want to know what informed by prejudiced view of Europeans, all you need to see is the following information. The mass murder in Norway who blew up and build and then killed 77 people, here is what he could face…..
    “If Breivik is deemed sane, as he hopes to be, he could face a 21-year prison sentence with indefinite extensions for as long as he is considered dangerous.”

    Yeah…..I was saying AYFKM too……

    The next time you hear an opinion about the U.S. from someone over there, reply this one in your mind to give you some frame of reference.

  37. chicagofinance says:

    build = building

  38. chicagofinance says:

    reply = replay

  39. Brian says:

    http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2012/04/13/n_shiller_good_finance.cnnmoney/

    Shiller is obviously plugging his book everywhere but he makes some interesting points. He advocates how financial innovation is actually a force for good overall in the world.

    One interesting point…he says he’s been talking to governments about actually issuing shares…instead of just debt. People could buy dividend paying shares of a country.

    Another was tradeable social policy bonds.

    “The government issues a bond that would payout only if some social goal like a lowering of the unemployment rate or the lowering of the crime rate in some city.”

    He says, for example, people could buy social bonds that have these positive social goals attached and then set up a non-profit and focus all the energy of the community and the bondholders in reaching these goals.

  40. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [26] joyce,

    Uh-huh.

  41. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nom;

    How’d you like Everton pulling even to draw ManU from 4-2 down?

  42. Brian says:

    Hey Scribe, if you’re lurking, I sent you a couple of pics of the cans I pulled out of my wall. My guess is just late 70’s or early 80’s. Not sure if it’s steel. Maybe just a heavy guage aluminum.

  43. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [34] moose,

    Sometimes it isn’t even hard times that cause a firm to close.

    Shortly after I left Skadden, I heard that the guy in the office next to mine had left the firm in order to move back to Massachusetts. Like me, he was from there. He also went to MIT and HULS, and clerked for the SJC before going to DoJ in DC.

    He took an associate position at Testa Hurwitz & Thibeault, arguably the “Skadden” of Boston. Testa was at the top of the heap in those days, having muscled aside the old white shoe firms by absorbing the lion’s share of tech work.

    He went there in the fall of 2004, just before this:
    http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2005/01/10/daily72.html?page=all

  44. Seif (37)-

    Sheep, this has always been the case with HARP, HAMP and all the other worthless programs devised by the rhesus monkeys who are running the country into the ground. Google for downloads of some of those programs; you will laugh until you vomit when you realize that most of them are nothing more than compendiums of bullet-pointed, half-baked ideas that were supposed to be fleshed out by the enforcing agencies, but instead were left to languish as yet another dead-on-arrival program was concocted.

    The US banking system is functionally insolvent and has been since 2008. Any short sale of homeowner forebearance program is nothing more than a vehicle to dupe sheep like you into thinking something is being done…while allowing banksters to kick the can on this whole mess ad infinitum.

    Do you REALLY think that the lawless bankster horde will ramp up staffing in their short sale departments to be able to comply with this law? In case your answer is “yes”, let me assure you that the real answer is a resounding “no”.

    “…also, new short sale rules are going into effect in June…”

  45. The first rule of short sales is: there are no rules.

    My apologies to Fight Club.

  46. seif says:

    46 – i don’t disagree with a lot of what you say…but if there is a chance that you can get an answer within 60 days as opposed to 6 months, that would be nice.

  47. Fabius Maximus says:

    #11 chi
    Got alternative? Huntsman was the only one in the GOP field that had a chance against O.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/jon-huntsman-trashes-gop-expresses-campaign-regre?s=mobile

  48. Anon E. Moose says:

    Seif [37];

    the new guidelines, which will also require lenders to review and respond to short sale requests within 30 days and provide weekly status updates to the borrower if the offer is still under review after that time.

    Only thing that will do is kill some more trees and generate business for the USPS. How much effort is requried to send out a weekly form letter that says “The case currently remains under review”? About as much effort as it does to send out the the monthly deficiency/collections letters for houses that haven’t been paid on for 3 years and counting.

  49. Anon E. Moose says:

    Fabio [49];

    Huntsman was the only one in the GOP field that had a chance against O.

    What a crock of sh!t. I love it when leftys tell the opposition how they’re supposed to win elections. A corrolary is how, to a lefty, the only good conservative is a dead conservative (e.g., gushing over Reagan after his death…continuing via hijacking his name to this day by Oblama).

  50. Fabius Maximus says:

    #38 Chi

    Is there a point here or is this just one off your norrmal xenophobic anti-european rants?

  51. 3B says:

    #52 Fab: Lets be honest there are many European countries where American tourists get assaulted all the time about American foreign policy. For the most part these are just tourists visiting and taking in the sites. It gets really tiresome after a while. I doubt Europeans are subject to the same abuse when visiting over here.

    I do have to say I witness little of this behavior in England, but I have seen it time and time again in other countries in Europe.

  52. seif says:

    50 – that is great news! i am all for keeping all the post offices open so i am glad to hear these new rules will “generate business for the USPS.”

  53. AG says:

    Its all turning to sh_t. Get your chicken coups cleaned out.

  54. Brass Balls says:

    England is at best a tourist trap, bad teeth, greasy french fries wrapped in yesterdays newspapers and warm beer.

    3B says:
    April 23, 2012 at 2:03 pm
    #52 Fab: Lets be honest there are many European countries where American tourists get assaulted all the time about American foreign policy. For the most part these are just tourists visiting and taking in the sites. It gets really tiresome after a while. I doubt Europeans are subject to the same abuse when visiting over here.

    I do have to say I witness little of this behavior in England, but I have seen it time and time again in other countries in Europe.

  55. Fabius Maximus says:

    #51 Moose
    Your post defines crock. For elections I look at the positions and the numbers. The GOP positions are pushing OH and FL to O by six points. If I want a true non partsan view of a race I look at the bookies.
    Nov will be O by double digits.

  56. gary says:

    Fabius,

    Nov will be O by double digits.

    And this is good… for whom?

  57. Shore Guy says:

    “Huntsman was the only one in the GOP field that had a chance against O.”

    Huntsman would have crushed BHO in the general election. Romney may have a chance but, the primary hurt Ol’ Willard to the point where he goes into the general as damaged goods and with many in the middle wondering if they can pull the lever for a party with so many anti-science and intolerant people, many of whom seem to want to take the world back to the 15th century.

  58. Shore Guy says:

    “Nov will be O by double digits.”

    I would not be surprised in the least.

  59. Fabius Maximus says:

    3B

    The short answer is “Freedom Fries!” But why don’t we play a game. You pick a european city and we can count the number of google hits for “Tourist sh0t in “. We can then compare that search to a US city of similar size.

  60. gary says:

    The bleeding heart peons seem to be under the impression that the ivory tower charlatans actually give a f*ck about them. Unless the little lefty cheerleaders are uber rich or uber connected, they’ll have to hoe potatos and share their crop with the rest of the commune. Well, at least they can braid each others hair… until, of course, the charlatan elite decides to tax that service.

  61. Pete says:

    Fab #57,

    Oddsmakers have O at 63% to win. Not quite pointing to the blowout you are predicting.

  62. Fabius Maximus says:

    #58 gary

    The philosophical “Is it good” is irrelevant against the reality of the situation.

  63. Fabius Maximus says:

    #59 Shore
    Thank you. That is a perfect summation.

  64. Fabius Maximus says:

    #63 pete

    Intrade has it O 60 \ Mitt 38

  65. Anon E. Moose says:

    Fabio [57] (& Pete [63]);

    Oddsmakers have O at 63% to win. Not quite pointing to the blowout you are predicting.

    Actually below 60% per InTrade (http://www.intrade.com/v4/markets/?eventId=84326). And that’s an improvement over January.

    Not quite pointing to the blowout you are predicting.

    Fab, you stand to make a killing. How much are you in for?

    Shore [59];

    Huntsman fizzled for lack of support. He couldn’t get to, much less through, the general. With that background, Obama money advantage would have surely carried him to re-election. Hunstman would have been the Republican’s John F***ing Kerry, probably the only possible candidate bad enough to lose to a widely unpopular incumbent. When you’re an unknown quanitity without the money to mount an air war, the opposition can have a field day defining you the public.

    Don’t get me wrong, Romney isn’t the candidate of my choice, but this election is an up-or-down referendum on Obama. The Hunstman BS from Fabio is all about setting up the easiest distraction/opponent to defeat. I’m curious where you think Hunstman’s base was that would support him in a head-to-head against Obama, or what his path to winning would have been.

  66. Libtard in the City says:

    As of now the election is over. It’s bad enough that people here tend to think anyone in DC actually gives a rat’s backside about them. So can we stop talking wasting precious bandwidth on it regardless of what the bookies say?

    Bread and circuses people. Baa Baa.

  67. Anon E. Moose says:

    Lib [68];

    Bread and circuses people. Baa Baa.

    Sorry, Lib; I don’t buy that. I can’t accept that line that ‘Republicans are spendthrifts too, so might as well stay home.’ I think that’s part and parcel of Obama’s re-election campaign as well: Demoralize the unattached voter who would vote against him if they bother to vote at all.

    Well, if the choice is between spendy Bush 43 with a Republican Congress for at least part of his term that saw avg. $500 B deficits on one hand, and drunken Sailor Obama with a democratic Congress that gave us avg. $1,500 B deficits on the other, I may not like the $500B choice, but it looks better than the alternative.

  68. Libtard in the City says:

    My issue is that it doesn’t matter who you elect. Both parties are one and the same. They use social issues to cater to their bases, but ultimately they get into office and do the same thing. Which is precisely why it’s as easy to bash Obama as it was to bash W. Likewise, the cheerleaders here will be bashing Romney or Obama come next January. It’s all the same.

    Your energy would be much better utilized in building your wealth enough to plan for your escape. In just 15 more years, you can join me somewhere in Central America where I’ll be so isolated that my only concerns in life will be ensuring my propane tanks are full, my rain barrels will have captured enough water to keep my garden healthy and the fish I catch are of the edible variety.

  69. Njescapee says:

    Lib is the guy with a worthwhile plan. Keep your eyes on the prize.

  70. joyce says:

    Hear, hear Libtard

    well said

  71. seif (48)-

    The only time I’ve ever gotten an answer on a short sale within 60 days was on a deal where my client was dead.

    I opened the file with the bank by supplying the death certificate.

    Short of a situation like this, take a number and wait.

  72. Juice Box says:

    Keep cosigning those loans so your kid can study creative writing and then graduate to making coffee.

    “About 1.5 million, or 53.6 percent, of bachelor’s degree-holders under the age of 25 last year were jobless or underemployed, the highest share in at least 11 years. In 2000, the share was at a low of 41 percent, before the dot-com bust erased job gains for college graduates in the telecommunications and IT fields.”

    “College graduates who majored in zoology, anthropology, philosophy, art history and humanities were among the least likely to find jobs appropriate to their education level; those with nursing, teaching, accounting or computer science degrees were among the most likely.”

    http://www.seattlepi.com/business/article/1-in-2-new-graduates-are-jobless-or-underemployed-3501033.php#ixzz1stZkJUEG

  73. 3b (53)-

    I have an Amerikan friend who has lived in Lyon for the past 9 years. She’s moving back here, because the anti-Amerikan sentiment has become a real threat to her safety.

  74. Juice Box says:

    Meat – Realtytrac says short sales are again on the rise. Not in New Jersey of-course we are just too close to Manhattan.

    http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/04192012_short_sales_reo.asp

  75. I plan to spend Election day packing shotgun shells and re-reading Steal This Book.

  76. chicagofinance says:

    Fab: you are not being empathetic; those mouthbreathers are going to look at the price of gas at the pump and the overall feel of the economy in October. If they are satisfied, the O wins (just as in 2008 the bad economy killed McCain who was the de facto W. in the election). To ascribe any deeper strategy to it is fantasy.

    Fabius Maximus says:
    April 23, 2012 at 2:23 pm
    #51 Moose
    Your post defines crock. For elections I look at the positions and the numbers. The GOP positions are pushing OH and FL to O by six points. If I want a true non partsan view of a race I look at the bookies.
    Nov will be O by double digits.

  77. njescapee says:

    chi-fi, it seems the mouthbreathers may have more sense than those elite- knucledraggers afterall if they vote their own interests.

    “those mouthbreathers are going to look at the price of gas at the pump and the overall feel of the economy in October.”

  78. chicagofinance says:

    Escape: part of my point is that what they think they see is not really reflective of what is going on for them; OH needs to get rid of Obama to move forward at all costs; to be clear, I don’t really care either way……so they may think they are voting their own interests, but as mouthbreathers, they are not able to think through the issue deeply enough as Fab assumes…..

  79. Painhrtz - I ain't dead yet says:

    I cant vote for Obama because he is… part white there I said it. He is not black enough!

    Seriously since this tarded state always swings blue idiot, I able to vote libertarian or which ever candidate floats my boat. my vote is essentially nullified by the entitlement class, but I still do it every first Tuesday in November because I like the illusion that I am still part of a constitutional republic. Shucks I also a sucker for outmoded traditions : )

  80. Painhrtz - I ain't dead yet says:

    guess my autocorrect is not doing I’m today. Stupid crackberry

  81. NjescaPee says:

    Chi-fi, just having fun w/you. I couldn’t care less. I’m not planning to vote.

  82. Voting shows you’re complicit in the conspiracy.

    Only vote that counts is a vote with a bullet.

  83. I really love it when some crook who wins by a landslide claims he has a “mandate”.

    jj can tell you what a mandate really is.

  84. Anon E. Moose says:

    Meat [85];

    Voting shows you’re complicit in the conspiracy.

    Don’t Vote It Just Encourages the Bastards

  85. Shore Guy says:

    Stu,

    You are wrong. Wrong. Wrong. There is a huge difference between what the two parties. In the Democratic party half of the folks are out of touch whereas in the Republican party it is just 50%.

  86. Happy Renter says:

    [70] “you can join me somewhere in Central America where I’ll be so isolated that my only concerns in life will be ensuring my propane tanks are full, my rain barrels will have captured enough water to keep my garden healthy and the fish I catch are of the edible variety”

    Not in Central America, but already a few steps ahead of you there, brother.

    “My issue is that it doesn’t matter who you elect. Both parties are one and the same. They use social issues to cater to their bases, but ultimately they get into office and do the same thing.”

    I mostly agree; but in the meantime, while I put the finishing touches on my escape plan, I prefer to flush fewer dollars down the drain via government taxes; I also prefer to stay well-armed per my 2nd Amendment rights. You may consider these social issues — I consider them much more than that.

  87. Shore Guy says:

    Let’s try that again.

  88. Shore Guy says:

    Stu,

    You are wrong. Wrong. Wrong. There is a huge difference between the two parties. In the Democratic party half of the folks are out of touch whereas in the Republican party it is just 50%.

  89. Shore Guy says:

    “I really love it when some crook who wins by a landslide claims he has a “mandate”.

    “jj can tell you what a mandate really is.”

    In any case, the kulaks are going to get bent over the arm of the sofa.

  90. Fabius Maximus says:

    #82 pain
    Maybe this will cheer you up. You can play it all the way to November. Maybe you can start a league!
    http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op/sXMLLyMJKA-Te3RtcOrYA_w/view.m?id=15&gid=world/us-news-blog/2012/apr/23/ron-paul-video-game-kickstarter&cat=world

  91. Shore Guy says:

    http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120423/AUTO0103/204230371/1148/auto01/GM-build-2013-Cadillac-XTS-China-year

    General Motors Co. announced Monday at the Beijing auto show that it will begin building its all-new 2013 Cadillac XTS sedan in China this year and later will build the ELR luxury electric coupe in the country.

    snip

  92. AG says:

    China buying Iranian oil with gold to bypass US sanctions on Iran.

    Goodbye to the petrodollar.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2012/04/22/the-best-reason-in-the-world-to-buy-gold/

  93. AG says:

    Central America is a tricky thing to predict. Takes a lot of balls to make that move. Costa Rica has a large American expat population.

  94. joyce says:

    (98)

    AG,

    So are we going to invade Iran or China now? or both?

    Clearly, our national security is threatened.

  95. Libtard at home says:

    I got the jist the first time Shore.

  96. AG says:

    100.

    Joyce,

    I dont know. Personally I think most of us left alive will be rowing around the local rivers in dug out canoes like the Lenape Indians looking for clams and bugs.

  97. NjescaPee says:

    Yum, linguini w/clam sauce

  98. Essex says:

    The world is changing….deal with it folks.

  99. Shore Guy says:

    Just where do they think they are — Jersey?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/24/world/americas/bribery-tolerated-even-as-it-hurts-mexican-economy.html

    MEXICO CITY — Every now and then, the health department shows up at José Luis García’s food store in an affluent neighborhood here. Mr. García immediately reaches for his wallet.

    “They first say there is some fine and then they say, ‘We can fix this another way,’ ” said Mr. García, who typically pays $50 to $100 to make the inspectors go away.

    snip

  100. Fabius Maximus says:

    #51 Moose.

    “A corrolary is how, to a lefty, the only good conservative is a dead conservative (e.g., gushing over Reagan after his death”

    Was that the same type of gushing that was directed at Teddy K when he passed on?

    I don’t hold animosity against most conservatives. I can understand their views and while I disagree with them, I can respect them for it. I take exception to those who inflict deliberate pain on people through their actions and for that I am waiting patiently for Margret Thatcher to make her appointment to burn in hell. For me RR was a non event, he was locked in his own dementia hell, so passing on down was probably a relief to him.

    I do think a lot of South America toasted RR passing. He was not too popular down there, can’t think why? /sarc

  101. Fabius Maximus says:

    Clot

    As for the Toon, enjoy Wigan as I think that will be your last chance at points this year. I think poetic justice would be 5th on goal difference, but I think you’ll be 6th.

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