Wealthy screw everything up again

From the IB Times:

Wealthy Homeowners Threaten Housing Recovery

As the U.S. housing industry begins to sputter with signs of life, wealthy homeowners face a different kind of problem: selling their posh condos, villas, and waterfront properties before the onset of the dreaded fiscal cliff at the end of this year.

Owners of luxury homes are panicking at the prospect of shelling out millions of dollars more in capital-gains taxes beginning next Jan. 1, after the Bush tax cuts expire. As a result, they are pressuring exasperated brokers to find them good deals in the next five months. Their soaring desperation could eventually cripple housing prices overall, according to real-estate experts.

“This has become a key issue for sellers,” Stephen Games, chairman of Pacific Sotheby’s International Realty, a San Diego-based real-estate agency, told CNBC in a recent interview. “Sellers want to get a deal done before the election. They want to avoid the uncertainty.”

If the Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire, the current capital-gains tax of 15 percent would increase to 20 percent. Against such a backdrop, anyone selling a second home owned for more than 12 months would have to pay a capital-gains tax on the profit made on the sale — in other words, the difference between the original purchase price and the selling price — according to Alan Kufeld, an adviser to high-net-worth families and a consultant at accounting firm Rothstein Kass.

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Recovery, National Real Estate, Politics. Bookmark the permalink.

264 Responses to Wealthy screw everything up again

  1. grim says:

    From MarketWatch:

    Top home builder sentiment rise in nearly decade

    Home-builder sentiment in July surged the most in close to a decade to bring the level to the highest point since the recession.

    Builder confidence for newly built, single-family homes climbed 6 points to 35, the highest level since March 2007, according to the National Association of Home Builders/Wells Fargo housing market index released Tuesday.

    Economists polled by MarketWatch had forecast a reading of 30. The index is designed so that a reading of 50 is considered good, which hasn’t been the case since April 2006.

    That said, there’s rising confidence by builders. “This is greater evidence that the housing market has turned the corner as more buyers perceive the benefits of purchasing a newly built home while interest rates and prices are so favorable,” said Barry Rutenberg, chairman of the National Association of Home Builders, in a statement.

  2. grim says:

    From HousingWire:

    How low can the American homeownership rate go?

    The American homeownership rate fell from 69.2% in 2004 to a low of 65.4% in the first quarter of the year, but how much further does that rate have to fall?

    Paul Diggle, a property economist with Capital Economics, asked that question in a new research report released this morning.

    The future of homeownership depends a great deal on how young buyers will view homeownership in the future.

    Will tight credit keep young households out of the market for a longer period of time? And even if they can get back into the market, will student loan debt and fears of making a bad investment turn younger Americans away from the home buying option?

    “Over a longer horizon, the case for further falls in the homeownership rate hinges on whether there has been a permanent shift in the tastes and preferences of American households away from owner-occupation,” Diggle said Tuesday. “Hard evidence is thin on the ground, but that doesn’t appear to have happened.”

    But even with prices falling and the assumption that some pent-up demand could return to the market, Diggle worries that 1.7 million additional homes will fall into foreclosure over the next five years.

    With all of these factors taken into consideration, Diggle believes it’s reasonable to estimate that the homeownership rate will decline to about 64% by 2015.

    “This would take the rate back to 1995 levels,” he said. “The flipside of a falling homeownership rate is a rising rental rate. Compared to 2004, an additional 6.6 million households are renting, more than 90% of the increase in total household numbers over that period. Were the homeownership rate to continue falling in line with our expectations, the rental sector could expand by up to one million households per annum over the next few years. That is going to create opportunities for investors, who will own an increasing proportion of the housing stock.”

  3. grim says:

    Great headline from Reuters:

    Los Angeles sues U.S. Bancorp, calls bank a slumlord

    Los Angeles has sued U.S. Bancorp, accusing a unit of the fifth-largest U.S. commercial bank of becoming one of the city’s biggest slumlords and blighting the city by allowing hundreds of foreclosed homes to fall into disrepair.

    Monday’s civil lawsuit by the office of Los Angeles City Attorney Carmen Trutanich alleges that U.S. Bank NA has taken title to more than 1,500 foreclosed residential properties in the city in its role as trustee for various mortgage-backed securities trusts.

    “This lawsuit is a deterrent. It’s a message to other banks; step up and do the right thing,” Trutanich told reporters on Tuesday on the steps of Los Angeles City Hall.

    Asked if the city would sue other banks, Trutanich said “that is one of the arrows in the quiver,” but did not name any potential targets.

    In its complaint, Los Angeles said that at least since July 2008, U.S. Bank has “disregarded virtually every one of its legal duties and responsibilities as owner, resulting in the creation and maintenance of an alarming number of vacant nuisance properties and substandard occupied housing units.”

    It said the bank ignored repeated demands that it comply with the law, causing hundreds of homes to become uninhabitable or “public nuisances” and resulting in illegal evictions of hundreds of tenants from the second most-populous U.S. city.

    Los Angeles said it is seeking a civil fine of $2,500 a day for each violation by what it called “one of the largest slumlords in the city.” It estimated potential liability in the “hundreds of millions of dollars.”

  4. grim says:

    From the Hunterdon County Democrat:

    Residents in more Hunterdon towns complain about poorly maintained properties

    In several towns across the county, unsightly unkempt homes, many in foreclosure, are becoming more and more of a problem as neighbors worry that living near abandoned properties would decrease their property values.

    Recently, residents in East Amwell and Clinton Township complained to the governing bodies of their respective municipalities about problem homes in their neighborhoods.

    A handful of Clinton Township residents appeared before Township Council on July 11 to talk about a house on Cedar Grove Road where they said the grass is 3-feet high, with possibly unregistered and abandoned vehicles and a strong smell coming from inside the house.

    Mayor Kevin Cimei responded that the concerns being raised are “valid” ones and that he is “sympathetic,” but that the township does not have a property maintenance ordinance on the books that might help address the problem.

    The township years ago tried to introduce such an ordinance, the mayor said, but it was met with extreme opposition from residents.

    If the township did have an ordinance on the books, Cimei said, a lien could be placed on properties to finance grass cutting.

  5. Fast Eddie says:

    I must leave for work now. You know, that job in the private sector but did I hear right from Oblammy yesterday?

    Obama insulted small business owners during a campaign stop in Roanoke, VA on Saturday. “If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that,” Obama told the crowd. “Somebody else made that happen.” Obama said successful Americans did not become successful on their own, they had help. “If you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own,” he said. “You didn’t get there on your own.”

    Is this serious or was this a spoof?

  6. 1987 Condo buyer says:

    #5, I’d “guess” that he is referring to the fact that the Feds/State/City provided highways and military defense and a legal system and police, otherwise Clot would be running the show from his estate out in western NJ.

  7. yo says:

    This is how low the right has gone.Desperately looking for ways.

    Conservatives Selectively Edit Obama’s Speech To Claim He Hates Small Businesses

    http://thinkprogress.org/media/2012/07/16/525181/conservatives-selectively-edit-obamas-speech-to-claim-he-hates-small-businesses/

    I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

    (If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help.) There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. (If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.) The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

    (The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.)

    ( ) is what was edited

  8. yo says:

    Politics is a dirty game.I cant seem to think what reasonable reason a sucessful person wants to be in it with out personal gains.

  9. yo says:

    Sununu:’I wish this president would learn how to be an American’

    This are calculated sound bytes knowing not all americans listens to the media.They hear this sound bytes from friends, neighbors without checking validity or in this case Sununu’s explanation and apology

  10. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [7] yo,

    Any less misleading than the Obamunists suggesting that Romney was a felon over alleged facts that those media outlets with some respectablity call b.s.?

    And Obama did give the speech, the tenor of which was that you successful small businessfolk didn’t do this yourself, the government helped you. It is actually a version of a canned speech Tip O’Neill used to give.

  11. seif says:

    5 – classic…that’s the story that you get from the repub echo chamber where they edited what obama said so it fit nicely into their false narrative. he was “riffing,” if you will, on the elizabeth warren “someone built those roads and maintained the highways, etc. that help you conduct your business.”

    the best part of it is…romney used the false, twisted lie in his stump speech yesterday. what a crack team that romney has! they are getting their cues from fox news each night.

  12. seif says:

    sununu also echoed exactly what limbaugh said the night before, so as lauwrence o’donnell put it (paraphrasing):

    “the obama campagn is following the lead of the team that helped him win the white house 3 years ago and the romney campaign is listening to fox news and a drug addict that flunked out of college!”

  13. Essex says:

    5. My hope for you in your new job is that you slowly realize that everyone in the office in Liberal. And it makes you very uncomfortable.

  14. Essex says:

    5. What is funny is that the only people who really buy into this story are the ones on the far left of the intelligence bell curve.

  15. seif says:

    on a RE note…in Tenafly there is hardly a home worth looking at in the $650K-$850K range. they have all been snatched up. On the other hand, there is a plethora of $350K-$499K homes available. When I first started looking in The ‘Fly 3 years ago I never saw a home listed under $600K…I didn’t think they existed.

  16. raging bull jj says:

    So I have some real estate questions for people in real estate. So I talked to a “buyers” broker who apparently only purpose it to call “listing” agent to feel how much buyer will accept and what other offers are there.

    So I talk to buyers agent how do you now listing agent is telling truth. Maybe they are bluffing with other offers, she goes realtors usually tell other realtors the truth, kinda like professional courtesy. I then go do realtors always tell the customers the truth regarding other offers or what is least buyer will accept, she goes no, they want to get more so they get more commission and more for client.

    I then go how do I know you are telling me the truth, she goes you dont, but trust me I am.

    So for fun, I picked out a house last night, made up a realtor name and a realtor office and called listing agent to discuss my offer. In a matter of minutes I got all juicy details. Cant more people just be their own buyers broker? Why tell listing agent your real name? Wouldnt it be better to hide behind a fictional buyers broker name till you get details and then re-appear in person as the actual buyer?

  17. seif says:

    this is news:

    ” do realtors always tell the customers the truth regarding other offers or what is least buyer will accept, she goes no, they want to get more so they get more commission and more for client.”

  18. seif says:

    i meant

    “this is news????”

  19. Painhrtz - Yossarian says:

    Yo last time I checked taxpayers and the net worth (borrowing ability of the American Taxpayer) paid for the roads, teachers salaries, yada yada yada. Putting the whole speech up there does not lessen the intent. chairman O thinks we all owe a big wet kiss to Daddy government for paving the path to our success. those of us are successful did not do it of our own initiative and hard work but through luck and good fortune under the careful tutelage of the US government.

  20. yo says:

    Pain,
    I believe his intent is;Our lives is shape by the policies that our leaders (government takes).It does not have to be a business in general.Without government support and policies,you might as well be living in Mogadishu.Where you get no support from a corrupt government

  21. yo says:

    Roads and bridges were paid by the tax payers but with the policies of our leaders.Without this policies this roads would have never happened.Money will not do the work without moving it.

  22. Painhrtz - Yossarian says:

    and one last thing about chairman O’s ridiculous speech. Here is a guy who his whole life has had it’s good fortune guided by luck and the hard work of others with minimal investment of his own capitol. Medicore pothead gets into Columbia, futzes around in liberal organizations, affirmative actions his way into Harvard, does nothing as the president of the Harvard Law review, is a one in a million professor goes into government. the only actual adult job he ever had he ran from kicking and screaming. His entire career has been built on the premise he just outlined. Why would he think any differently? The mistake the moron makes is assuming his experieince is the same as everyone elses’

  23. raging bull jj says:

    It is not news, but I love how realtors will tell you they lie, stocks and bonds now show bids/asks and pricing history. Hard to price securities, illiquid securities and securities that lack price transparency sell at a discount since buyers are not sure they are getting the actually market price buyers will low ball.

    Realtors are in effect getting less for homes due to the lack of transparency. It does keep them in the process. Like the full service stock and bond broker generating massive commission 25 years ago at expense of seller and buyers of stock, real estate agents will go the way of the buck slip, typewriter, sticky pad, yellow pencil, notepad and rotary phone as having a place in the business world.

    Realtors have great chutzpa.

    seif says:
    July 18, 2012 at 8:30 am

    i meant

    “this is news????”

  24. Bagholder Brian says:

    Working and making a living as a businessman is for suckers anyway. Your best bet in NJ is to aspire to being a made guy.

  25. yo says:

    Bank of America swings to profit, shares climb

  26. Painhrtz - Yossarian says:

    Yo, I don’t say this much but your an idiot. Prior to the current cabal of thieves and idiocy of the american populace government did not live in a vaccum. You needed the consent of the governed to get those sort of things. Eisenhower sold the US on the interstate highway system. Before the US government doled out tax money believe it or not there were roads, schools and basic public services. If people needed a bridge they built it and tolled it to pay for it or sold bonds. The golden gate bridge being a perfect example. FDR and Johnson did so much to sell the notion that government will take care of your needs that idiots like you have internalized it to think it has always been this way.

  27. Bagholder Brian says:

    Trenton Mayor Tony Mack denies wrongdoing after FBI predawn raid at his home

    http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2012/07/trenton_mayor_tony_mack_denies.html

  28. Bagholder Brian says:

    Let the government take care of us. There is no need to question what they do. Tony Mack is a perfect example. They really have our best interests at heart. Look at all of the FBI investigative jobs he has generated.

  29. NJGator says:

    And your tax increase had nothing to do with local spending….even though the levy increased by $4M this year (while ratables declined 20%)…

    New Tax Bills Frustrate Taxpayers
    Many residents say they can no longer afford to live in Montclair.

    One resident of Christopher Street spoke for many at Tuesday night’s Township Council meeting when she said she wasn’t sure she could afford to live in Montclair any longer due to her recent tax hike.

    The resident, who received her new tax bill late last week, said her taxes have gone up by $6,000, meaning her taxes now total $30,000 a year.

    “That’s more than some people will earn in an entire year,” she said. “I have had to explain to my 13-year-old daughter that we may have to move.

    “Nobody has endless pockets no matter how big the home,” she added.

    At Tuesday night’s council meeting, taxpayers stepped forth one after another to ask questions about the third quarter tax bills that showed up in mailboxes late last week.

    Residents have even set up a Facebook page called Tax Us Fairly Montclair.

    Township Manager Marc Dashield explained that the third quarter bills are the result of last year’s reassessment, one that was designed to make taxes more equitable.

    He said that, as a result of the reassessment, the average property value went down 20.8 percent. Taxpayers whose property values went down at or close to the 20.8 percent average would have seen little or no change in their portion of the total tax burden. Those whose property values went down more than 20.8 percent would have seen their portion of the tax burden decline, while taxpayers whose property values decreased less than the average would have seen their portion of the burden rise.

    In general, about 60 percent of taxpayers apparently saw decreases in taxes while 40 percent saw increases—some of which were major increases.

    Dashield explained that a property owner’s entire 2012 tax bill should be calculated by multiplying one’s new assessed value by .03252—and not by multiplying the third quarter bill by four.

    “You’re making up for the first two quarters [of 2012] which were billed at last year’s rate since we did not have an established rate and the budget was not approvved by that time,” he said.

    Dashield emphasized more than once that any large increases were not connected to local government spending.

    Rather, he explained that the tax levy based on school, county and municipal budgets was about $183,000,000 in 2011, while the 2012 figure is closer to $187,000,000.

    Dashield also pointed out that, as a result of the reassessment, the value of the town’s properties dropped from $7 billion to $5 billion.

    “This [tax bill issue] is all directly related to the reassessment and this is not going to happen again unless we do another reassessment,” he said.

    He also noted, much to the chagrin of some angry taxpayers, that there’s no way to appeal one’s reassessment until next year.

    Resident Howard Platzman said that he’s lived in Montclair for 16 years but that he doesn’t know how much longer he can afford it.

    “I almost had a heart attack when I saw my tax bill on Friday,” he said.

    Platzman said that he really doesn’t understand how people could have been under the impression that they might be paying a bit more or a bit less this year—but not a whole lot more or a whole lot less.

    “I thought I had a $4,000 increase and maybe it’s a little less than that but it’s still a lot of money,” he said.

    Platzman said he has a real problem with suddenly being told that his tax bill is 40 percent higher without any real explanation.

    “I think taxes should go up in a more phased-in manner,” he said.

    Another resident said that she didn’t understand how all the homes around her house had dropped significantly in value—except for her home.

    “I now owe $7,200 in August … that’s unfortunate … we’re in a real pickle here,” she said.

    Mayor Robert Jackson told taxpayers that he feels their pain, but that the new Township Council, which took office July 1, is already taking steps to reduce debt and, ultimately, taxes.

    “We’re already doing things to bring the number down,” he said.

    Towards this end, at a meeting earlier this month, Dashield unveiled a preliminary 10-year plan to reduce the town’s $220 million debt.

    He said that the town’s first move would be to set a limit on new debt while establishing levels of principal to be paid off each year.

    In addition, Dashield talked about the purchase of insurance through the IMAC broker rather than through the State Health Benefits plan. Dashield chose IMAC in September 2011 to negotiate health insurance purchases for the township, a move that he said saved the town $600,000.

    One resident asked if the council was looking at new ways to raise revenue.

    “We are moving aggressively at economic development,” Jackson said. “The value of our property is really not in the selling of it but in the development of it.

    “We understand and are doing all we can do at this time,” he said.

    For more on your tax bill, and how to decipher it, go here.

    http://montclair.patch.com/articles/new-tax-bills-frustrate-taxpayers

  30. yo says:

    Back to the lead story:

    I cant understand why,this luxury homes can cripple housing prices over all.If owned two years or more,you need to pay capital gains tax.Do they even have gains if not bought in the 90’s.That is when price bubble started.If bought in the 2000 capital gains will be minimal if any. The headline the other day was “sellers holding,prices going up.”What makes this rich people any different?5% more in capital gains tax on what you’ve earned while enjoying the home?Will not pay that to the government i’d rather take a loss?This is gains.You pay tax on what you earned. Makes no sense to me.

  31. yo says:

    Any different from what I said?It is the policies that our leaders take.The voting public has the last say on this policies,presumably.

    Painhrtz – Yossarian says:
    July 18, 2012 at 9:06 am
    Yo, I don’t say this much but your an idiot. Prior to the current cabal of thieves and idiocy of the american populace government did not live in a vaccum. You needed the consent of the governed to get those sort of things. Eisenhower sold the US on the interstate highway system. Before the US government doled out tax money believe it or not there were roads, schools and basic public services. If people needed a bridge they built it and tolled it to pay for it or sold bonds. The golden gate bridge being a perfect example. FDR and Johnson did so much to sell the notion that government will take care of your needs that idiots like you have internalized it to think it has always been this way.

  32. Shore Guy says:

    Maybe the feds came by to have tea and crumpets with the mayor before they started their day?

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/fbi-searches-house-belonging-nj-capitals-mayor-16801156

  33. yo says:

    Don’t you call your congressman when there is a policy that will be against the good of your community?

  34. Shore Guy says:

    Why do those residents in Montclair think that the mayor and council give a rats tail about whether they move to flee the taxes? If they leave, the house and the tax bill remain in place. The town suffers no loss whatsoever if residents leave, as long as there is a sucker to buy the place. And, unless the current owners abandon the property, they will be selling to someone. A HARD tax cap is the only way to do anything about this. A tax cap that exempts the main drivers of tax increases is no solution; it might be a step in the right direction but it is no solution.

  35. raging bull jj says:

    I looked at homes in a rich subdivision in Nassau County Long Island that was built in 1982. Homes were originally priced a 150K to 200K. Todays homes in that town go for 1.5 million to 4 million. Someone who bought a big trade up home at 35 is now 65, they are sitting on a a two million dollar gain. People who bought homes prior to 1999 other than that mini bubble of 1986 to 1990 on the very high end could be sitting on a huge increase, think central park west, Alpine, Ho Ho Kus, Southampton, Old Brookvile.

    yo says:
    July 18, 2012 at 9:20 am

    Back to the lead story:

    I cant understand why,this luxury homes can cripple housing prices over all.If owned two years or more,you need to pay capital gains tax.Do they even have gains if not bought in the 90′s.That is when price bubble started.If bought in the 2000 capital gains will be minimal if any. The headline the other day was “sellers holding,prices going up.”What makes this rich people any different?5% more in capital gains tax on what you’ve earned while enjoying the home?Will not pay that to the government i’d rather take a loss?This is gains.You pay tax on what you earned. Makes no sense to me.

  36. yo says:

    Pain,
    Hey! you are the smart one.Dolts like me should shut up.You are always right.

  37. NJGator says:

    Shore 36 – What’s the over under that by 2013 the Montclair property tax rate will be as high as the going rate for a 30 year mortgage?

  38. Painhrtz - Yossarian says:

    Actually that is the smartest thing you have said

  39. Shore Guy says:

    Gator, they aren’t there yet?

  40. yo says:

    Keep on thinking that.There is a saying ,if you think it long enough it might just happen

  41. raging bull jj says:

    Nassau County put an offer out to senior citizens once where they are exempt from school tax as long as they sign a legal affidavit with large penalties that they will never used the services of a profession that requires a high school degree. Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants, Police, Firefighter, EMS etc. They claimed your school taxes paid for their HS degree which was free and was required for those professions. No senior citzens took them up on the offer.

  42. NJGator says:

    Shore 41 – They’re only at a piddling 3.252% I have no idea what these whiners are complaining about :)

    In other news from last night’s Town Council meeting, the payback of the Essex County Machine has begun. Council passed a resolution on first reading last night to leave the State Insurance Pool and go out and acquire their own insurance through their broker IMAC….IMAC is affiliated with Joe DiVincenzo’s (Essex County Exec) son. What a small world!

  43. Shore Guy says:

    it has to be tough spending money on an overtaxerd-overpriced house when one is nearing 50 and still paying off student loan debt:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303612804577533332860797886.html?mod=ITP_pageone_1

    Student debt is rising sharply among all age groups, but middle-aged Americans appear to be struggling the most with payments, according to new data released Tuesday by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

    The delinquency rate—or the percentage of debt on which no payment has been made for 90 days—was 11.9% for debt held by borrowers aged 40 to 49 as of March. That compares with a rate of 8.7% for borrowers of all ag

    snip

    Two-thirds of the nation’s $900 billion in student debt is held by Americans under 40, the Fed estimates. But borrowers over 40 are having a particularly tough time with student debt for several reasons, consumer and higher-education experts say.

    Many debtors over 40 are still paying balances from college years ago, while their home values and savings have declined sharply in recent years. Some have stopped payments after losing jobs. Many parents—no longer able to tap home equity to pay for their children’s education—are taking out new student loans to do so.

    snip

    Francine Crusan-Garcia, 50 years old, owes roughly $75,000 in federal and private student loans from attending Regis University, a Catholic university in Denver, where she graduated with a bachelor’s degree in organizational development in 2008. The married mother of five children from Commerce City, Colo., said she recently missed a payment on her mortgage to make her $415 monthly student-debt payment. Her husband is unemployed, and the family struggles to get by on her five-figure salary.

    “It’s ‘Do I feed my kids, do I pay my car payment, do I pay my car insurance?’ ” Mr. Crusan-Garcia said.
    snip

  44. Painhrtz - Yossarian says:

    Gator new car or pay taxes, Ellery private school or pay taxes, I think the reckoning may finally be on the horizon for Montklair. Not that the Nero’s on the town council would notice.

  45. Shore Guy says:

    This is taking on a “yes or no, are you still beating your wife” quality to it. Romney is so blowing this tax issue. Next we will be hearing how he will possibly face audits of his taxes for 4-5 years ago and how we can’t elect someone who might (Spiro Agnew) possibly (Spiro Agnew) have some (Spiro Agnew) tax issue (Spiro Agnew) or another hanging around his neck and who might be forced (Spiro Agnew) to resign because iof it; so much better to stay the course. Besides, why chance leaders inthe middle of a recession caused by George Bush and while we are fighting a war. In fact fighting two wars, one in Afghanistan and one against those fools stupid enough to earn over $250,000 per year.

  46. Shore Guy says:

    Gator,

    It is just part of the family’s continued service to the people. That he would take bread out of his own childrens’ mouths to cut the taxpayers a break on costs is quite admirable.

  47. Juice Box says:

    re: #35 – Yo I used to write my Congressman and Senator regularly, back when I was part of a PAC the 1990s. Years ago I used to get a signed letter response, usually a thoughtful letter addressing my concerns. These days I get a form letter or email response asking me to join a twitter feed or email list, with some fluff that tells you nobody even laid eyes on my letter. These days you have to buy access to Congressmen and Senators, they no longer represent us they just don’t have time they are too busy fundraising. Just take a look a the latest legislation shelved by the Senate for Campaign Finance Reporting that even McCain came out against. Does McCain really believe that every person that donates smaller amounts from $1-$10,000 dollars should fill out disclosure forms, or is this just his way of saying we like PACs and their unlimited funding because of Citizens United so we are going to keep them in the dark?

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-congress/2012/07/campaign-finance-reformer-mccain-blasts-disclose-129200.html

    It has gotten to the point where we are going to need a Constitutional Amendment to change the way campaigns are financed.

    I think the Ragnarök will happen first.

  48. yo says:

    Olympic gold medal is 93% silver

  49. Juice Box says:

    re # 15 – seif – in the Fly you must be looking east of the train tracks on the hill. Aren’t all of the lower priced homes POS capes next to Bergenfield? I actually own tax free land in the Fly, my final resting place unless my wife wants me in a jar on the mantle.

  50. yo says:

    #49 Juice
    I agree.

  51. raging bull jj says:

    Skip the jar, Dr. Pepper put his wife’s ashes in a a bottle, to this day Dr. Pepper still cums in bottles.

    Juice Box says:
    July 18, 2012 at 10:09 am

    re # 15 – seif – in the Fly you must be looking east of the train tracks on the hill. Aren’t all of the lower priced homes POS capes next to Bergenfield? I actually own tax free land in the Fly, my final resting place unless my wife wants me in a jar on the mantle.

  52. yo says:

    Should Mitt Romney release more of his past tax returns?
    Results with 61 short comments
    Total of 2,667 votes –
    86.2% Yes 2,299 votes
    10.8% No 287 votes
    3% Don’t care

  53. Anon E. Moose says:

    SX, Seif, et al.;

    Well, for one thing, its the campaign doing the editing, and not the lap dog “unbiased” state media doing it for them. The campaign exists because they have a dog in the fight. The media vehemently denies that they do — all evidence to the contrary.

    a) How did the redacted portions differ or alter the points made in the unedited whole?

    b) Didn’t the slackers, welfare check-cashers, government handout courtesans at all levels of society have access to the same schools, roads, police and fire? They did less with it. Its about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.

    c) The most successful already pay quite a bit more (on aggregate, proportional to income, and net basis) than the teat-suckers for those schools, roads, police, fire, etc. already. The middle quintile of this country for the first time is a net recipient of government transfers (http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2012/07/progressivity-of-taxes-and-transfers.html). And the Socialist-in-chief is talking about making the top pay even more.

    d) Speaking of all the ‘help’ that the successful people get, I haven’t seen my check lately. What happened to “Spread the wealth around”, “Pay for my gas and my mortgage” and all that? I guess everyone doesn’t get the ‘help’ after all.

    e) Those ‘police, fire, infrastructure’ etc. that his O-ness wraps himself in like mom and apple pie are about 30% of the budget. I’ll agree to leave all of that alone if we start taking a machette to the other 70%, like in half… m’kay?

  54. Anon E. Moose says:

    JJ;

    I’ve got a NY broker’s license. You wouldn’t have to lie. Maybe we should talk.

  55. seif says:

    52 – yes, those homes under $500K are all WEST of the train tacks (I believe)…as The East Hill is the “prestigious” part of town. East Hill props got snatched up quickly in the last 3 months. Tons of “wrong side of the tracks” properties are available.

  56. Richard says:

    JJ the the whole realtor/broker thing is a scam. No other country has it (dunno about Canada). When I lived in the UK a 2% commission was considered expensive. I’m sure the listing realtor would rather deal with a buyer than an agent as they get to keep a bigger share. Maybe even get a lower price and split the savings.

  57. Juice Box says:

    Seif – small world one day we could be neighbors! Temple Sinai backs up to Mount Carmel Cemetery too come pay me a visit if I stop posting on this blog suddenly.

  58. seif says:

    57 – basically you are saying “who cares if they edited and presented it as an attack on individual business owners (even when that is not what it was) because that fits my long-winded narrative version of how i see things”

    m’kay?

  59. seif says:

    61 – i will place some daises for you to push up

  60. WickedOrange says:

    I’m west of the tracks, the side of town where it’s acceptable to do your own yard work if you so choose. The way I see it… all those big houses on the east side are subsidizing the services I’m using in Tenafly.

    Seif, Where are you seeing all the inventory? I’m looking on realtor.com and see 8 homes listed under 500k (3+ bed rooms 1+ bathrooms).

  61. joyce says:

    43
    JJ,

    Remove the stupid barriers to entry, created by the govt, for all of those professions (licencing laws) and allow people to exercise their 2nd amendment rights … than the offer would be very possible to consider.

  62. raging bull jj says:

    I have one too. I got it off the internet. Control C, Control V. Trouble is they wanted a complete offer form with signatures and all. That is where I draw the line. One thing to make up stuff. By the way my realtor name is Al Lewis and I was looking for a place for my niece Marilyn, the ugly girl in family. I was ROFL having a discussion for house purchase. I was going to ask does house have a flip up staircase for my dragon and a lab in basement, but that would have made me laugh.

    Where do you do RE in NY, are you familar with REOs and LI?

    Anon E. Moose says:
    July 18, 2012 at 10:36 am

    JJ;

    I’ve got a NY broker’s license. You wouldn’t have to lie. Maybe we should talk

  63. Juice Box says:

    re # 56 – Yo – speculation is his 2009 returns show he paid no federal taxes do to carry forward losses. There is no way he is going to release them if that is the case. I think O wins this talking point.

  64. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Bernanke rolling his eyes during Paul’s diatribe. And Bawney Fwank actually butted into Paul’s time with a procedural stunt to get Paul to shut up. Classic.

  65. Shore Guy says:

    What was it that Dillinger said about robbing banks because, “that’s were the money is”? Of course, even this is chump change compared to what one can do by buying influence with the right politicians.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/authorities-in-ny-charge-48-people-in-massive-medicaid-fraud-case-costing-millions-of-dollars/2012/07/17/gJQAhkKEsW_story.html

    Authorities in NY charge 48 people in massive Medicaid fraud case costing millions of dollars

    By Associated Press, Published: July 17

    NEW YORK — A nationwide prescr!pti0n dr-ug ring bought mountains of H-IV medic@tions and other dr–ugs from down-and-out Medic@id recipients in New York City, then marketed the pi!ls to pharm@cies that dispensed them to unsuspecting consumers, authorities said Tuesday.

    Federal prosecutors in Manhattan detailed the scheme at a news conference announcing charges against 48 defendants.
    snip

  66. raging bull jj says:

    Actually depending on three events, if catholics are right, jews are right or neither.

    Catholics believe all good people go to heaven, so if catholics are right you both will be in heaven together
    Jews believe only Jews go to heaven, in that case one is in heaven and one burns in Hell
    If neither is right acording to groups like the Muslins both catholics and jews will burn in hell.

    So you have a 2/3rds chance you will be together in the afterlife. Oh Vey

    Juice Box says:
    July 18, 2012 at 10:42 am

    Seif – small world one day we could be neighbors! Temple Sinai backs up to Mount Carmel Cemetery too come pay me a visit if I stop posting on this blog suddenly.

  67. seif says:

    65 – on NJMLS. 15 houses (townhouses included) under 500K right now. I don’t disagree with you…you are in a great town and getting the same services subsidized by the hefty taxes of the East Hill.

    If you are into sushi, check out Foova in The Fly – it is a hidden gem. A hole in the wall but it really is excellent. They have 2-3 table but takeout is the move.

    There is a nice one that just went up on Hyler for $550,000. I like the house a lot but the location doesn’t work for me (although it is East Hill).

    not sure if this link will work:
    http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1225588&dayssince=&countysearch=false

  68. Shore Guy says:

    “speculation is his 2009 returns show he paid no federal taxes do to carry forward losses. There is no way he is going to release them if that is the case. I think O wins this talking point.”

    There is no reason he should have to release his tax forms, unless he wants to become president. if he does not want to be president, he should keep them private, and he should withdraw his name from consideration at the convention; otherwise, this whole campaign will come down to “What is Mitt hiding and how can you trust him?”

    Brilliant moves so far by Axelrod and company.

  69. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Harvard Endowment says it is buying up “natural assets”, namely timberland, farmland, hydro, etc. Another interesting comment is a manager that is buying stocks of companies that will benefit from a bailout of the states.

    BTW, has anyone noticed the sudden influx of stories about strapped states? We should see another micro-bailout from the admin soon. If not, expect a more robust effort post election, such as a fed guarantee for public pensions.

  70. Anon E. Moose says:

    Seif [62];

    So you’re playing the “have you no decency” card, and ignoring the other five substantive points made. Well done, lil’ Saul.

  71. Juice Box says:

    re# 73 – In an interview that aired last weekend Romney looked very uncomfortable when questioned about releasing more tax returns, and he said absolutely not going to release more returns. Pretty soon some reporter will ask him specifics, I can see a gaffe or two coming with sound bytes for PAC attack commercials.

    “The man who pays no taxes”

    Romney may be a wet dream for Comrade, but for the average Joe he will just look like a cheat. Class warfare and it isn’t even October.

  72. Pete says:

    Mitt’s not dumb. Its a risk reward move on his part. The cost of not releasing (very minimal if you look at polling and futures markets) is less than the cost of releasing.

  73. Shore Guy says:

    How long before someone leaks Romney’s earlier tax forms? If Nixon were inthe White House they would have been mailed to every newspaper.

  74. Anyone who pulls the lever for either of the two bastards running for president becomes part of the problem. They are one and the same, in that both want to wage war against you.

  75. A Chicago machine political hack vs. a sophisticated financial skimmer.

    We are well and truly fuct.

  76. Note to self: you don’t have enough firearms.

  77. Juice Box says:

    re: # 79 – Wikileaks aka CIA doesn’t have them already?

  78. Shore Guy says:

    “Romney may be a wet dream for Comrade, but for the average Joe he will just look like a cheat. Class warfare and it isn’t even October.”

    if I don’t write-in a name, between the two of them, I will vote for Romney. That said, he is playing this tax-return issue very badly and it will cost him the election. Other things might also cost him the election as well but that is another issue. God save the GOP if we nominate this guy because, if we do, he will get crushed in November and the most right wing of the party will make the case that he lost because he was not conservative enough, and we will nominate someone who won’t be able to win in ’16.

  79. joyce says:

    (69)
    Nom,
    I believe Paul was the one warning of the problems in 03/04 and described exactly what would happen and the incorrect actions that the govt would take; and I believe it was Bernanke telling us there was no bubble, it was contained, and everything would be fine from 06/07 until now.

  80. Shore Guy says:

    Now that I think of it, it was Willie Sutton who said that about banks and money.

  81. NJGator says:

    Woman uses story of cheating former husband to sell house

    Elle Zober describes herself as “scorned” and “slightly bitter.” And the recently divorced Oregon woman hopes those feelings of resentment will help her sell a house.
    Local Fox affiliate KPTV reports that the For Sale sign in Zober’s front yard reads, “Husband left us for a 22-year-old. House for sale by scorned, slightly bitter, newly single owner.”
    Zober even created a website for the house titled Great Family Home.
    However, Zober is practicing some discretion in screening potential buyers; as the sign points out, “Adulterers need not apply.”
    But anyone is free to buy a $5 fridge magnet version of the sign, via the site’s merchandising section.
    As the sign notes, Zober says she and her former husband split after he allegedly left her and their two children for a younger woman.
    Nonetheless, her ex-husband gave her permission to disclose the information in the For Sale sign, as Zober explains on the site: “Here’s the deal—the sign and this entire site was made with my ex-husband’s expressed permission and approval. He even paid for the cost of half of the signs.”
    Zober goes on to note that they have not shown the sign to their children.
    So, why exactly have the former couple gone through all this effort to very publicly air their dirty laundry?
    “As long as it sells the house, we’re good,” Zober told KPTV. “Neither of us wants the house to end up in foreclosure.”

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/ex-wife-uses-story-cheating-former-husband-sell-221218162.html

  82. Juice Box says:

    Shore – Palin, GWB and now Ron Paul have been pretty much blacklisted from the GOP convention, no speaking roles. It is going to be a snooze fest. Who are they going to put up there?

  83. Shore Guy says:

    I would expect tht the Ron Paul delegates will cause a problem if he does not get to address the convention in prime time.

  84. Shore Guy says:

    that

  85. Juice Box says:

    Might see some regime change in Syria by the weekend. Any chance the Russians make a move here?

  86. WickedOrange says:

    Seif, thanks for the tip. I’ll check that place for sure.

    I’m pretty sure there’s a good amount of sellers in the under $600k range waiting for the opportunity sell. I saw quite a few homes get listed this spring and then fall off 30-60 days later. I assume no one hit their asking price.

  87. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [92] freedy,

    Sounds like a plan except that I’m not JJ, the Ultimate Male, so I’d have to lower my rate.

    Just the thought of me doing that reminds me of that old joke that ends in response to the question “Who gave you the quarter?” “Everyone, why?”

  88. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [92] freedy,

    Though I have been propositioned by soccer moms, so who knows. Tax free income. Hmmmmm.

  89. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [62] seif,

    I think the point was that the editing did not change the message. And to me, it didn’t. I am, as I said, familiar with the speech, having heard it long before
    obama went to Harvard.

  90. Juice Box says:

    Nom = Duce Bigelow Brigadoon Gigalow. Do you just massage feet? That is probably all they want.

  91. 1987 Condo buyer says:

    We need 1 guy to make $2 Trillion next year and then put in the 50% tax rate, that gets us 1 of those trillions back!

  92. seif says:

    99 – if the message was the same they wouldn’t have to edit it

  93. Mwwwaa Haaa Haaa says:

    Essex 14,

    Who ever told you it was a bell curve?

    Seriously, it’s got to be left-tailed skewed, possibly with multi-modes.

    IQ is overrated. EQ is how the sociopaths get away with it despite their flagging IQs.

    Mwwwaa Haaa Haaa!

  94. Essex says:

    103. Mitt romney’s nuts ride in a burlap sack.

  95. Frank the Renter says:

    Hello everyone..seif and wicked, you guys seem to know quiete a bit about the Fly. can you break down the different sections for me. I believe the town is divided into 4 grammar schools. can you talk about pros/cons of each. We were looking in the fly as well as can back up the idea that everything decent in the 650-800 range sold in the last few months. thanks for your help. Wife is caught up on the “East side”, because a friend moved there about a year ago and can’t stop raving about it.

  96. raging bull jj says:

    So bank gave me methodology to consider offers. Point system.

    Points + or – if you are a cash buyer, conforming mortgage vs non conforming mortgage
    Points = or – primary owner vs. investor
    Points + or – if you need a seller contribution towards closing
    Points + or – if you need money for repairs
    Points + or – for time to close
    Points + or – if you ever purchased property from bank before
    Points + or – if your own or rent your current residence
    Points + or – amount of Ernest Deposit.

    The lowest bid may win if it is cash, as is, no contingencies, primary owner, large earnest deposit, quick close and had a prior favorable REO purchase with bank.

    Bottom line someone getting a mortgage would first pay more for house and second would incur a lot of fees with obtaining a mortgage. Even with super low rates deals are still being done all cash as it costs a lot more to buy a house with a mortgage and some REO sellers just wont sell the good deals at all to people who need a mortgage.

  97. seif says:

    105
    the town basically separates into 4 different quadrants split by Dean St & Clinton Ave.
    yes, 4 elementary schools: Maugham, Smith, Stillman and Mackay.

    I can’t comment on the pros and cons of all of them because I am only familiar with Smith. Tenafly High School is the crown jewel, so if you can get your kid there it probably doesn’t matter too much which elementary school they go to. By middle school all the kids are together.

    Where on The East Hill do your friends live? There are million dollar homes in all quadrants but more so on the East Hill side. The town is not that big so you wouldn’t be too far from your friends no matter what, but your kids might go to different schools K-5.

  98. Carlito says:

    #106 : I understand all those, but why do bankers care if you are homeowner or investor? So they sleep better?

  99. Richard says:

    Zuckerberg has an ARM on his house, pays 1.05%.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/18/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-lawandlife-idUS172225602120120718

    I was thinking if this is good or not. He could get a margin loan at from a bank for much less than 1% so not sure why he’d bother with the mortgage. Margin loans would be deductable too.

  100. Jill says:

    JJ #71: “Catholics believe all good people go to heaven, so if catholics are right you both will be in heaven together
    Jews believe only Jews go to heaven, in that case one is in heaven and one burns in Hell
    If neither is right acording to groups like the Muslins both catholics and jews will burn in hell. ”

    You have no idea what you’re talking about. In Roman Catholicism, only their own peeps go to heaven. Jews have no concept of afterlife.

  101. yo says:

    The FBI removes documents from Trenton Mayor Tony Mack’s home on Wednesday, July 18, 2012.No charges have been filed

  102. Statler Waldorf says:

    I’m sorry but the following statements are quite disturbing, and cannot be explained away:

    “If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.”

    Really? “If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen”??

    Obama can claim other factors helped you along the way, but to minimize the accomplishments of entrepreneurs and business people is an abomination, and not the type of talk that should ever leave the lips of an American president.

  103. raging bull jj says:

    Catholics believe all good people go to Heaven. Jews believe that currently the gates of Heaven are locked. Jews believe when the Messiah comes and opens up the gates all Jews living and Dead will rise up and go to Heaven. So oddly it is smarter to be a jew than a catholic. Jew hedge their bets and go to heaven each way, Catholics only have a 50/50 chance of making it.

    I was on the board of directors of catholic charities once and sat down in front for the Popes last visit. I am all hooked up and feel I am Gods voice on earth. In fact I speak in indisputable terms which are not open to your mere mortal questioning.

    Jill says:
    July 18, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    JJ #71: “Catholics believe all good people go to heaven, so if catholics are right you both will be in heaven together
    Jews believe only Jews go to heaven, in that case one is in heaven and one burns in Hell
    If neither is right acording to groups like the Muslins both catholics and jews will burn in hell. ”

    You have no idea what you’re talking about. In Roman Catholicism, only their own peeps go to heaven. Jews have no concept of afterlife.

  104. Frank the Renter says:

    Seif- they live near smith and have their child there…which they love. Our price range is around 750, which doesn’t buy you much on the “East Side”. I do like the style of houses on the East side but need to be open to other areas. Like you said, the whole town shares the same services and all we want is a town with good schools and managable commute to NYC..We don’t need all the snotty attitude either

  105. raging bull jj says:

    I take trains and subways alot to props to that!

    “If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.

  106. Essex says:

    112. How’s this one grab you “…if you work for our banks you wouldn’t be in business right now if it was not for the American Government…”.

  107. chicagofinance says:

    yo: pain hits on the issue exactly; it is not backward looking…what has government done? We are attempting to answer questions today. How can we move forward?

    To look at what has been accomplished in the past is comparing apples and oranges. There isn’t an equivalence.

    It is the same as using the “I paid my way through” college line on an 18 year old staring down 4 years at a school for $240K. The references that O makes are so hopelessly out of context as to be utterly insulting ….. quotes in full context or not.

    Bottom line, we need a way forward…and path to help us heal. This guy is going to do absolutely nothing, or worse, really position us for a harsh reality when investors stop being interested in buying U.S. debt. He has no experience and really has little interest in governing…..he’s shown that to the population for the last 3 years….what else do you need to see?

    yo says:
    July 18, 2012 at 9:24 am
    Any different from what I said?It is the policies that our leaders take.The voting public has the last say on this policies,presumably.

    Painhrtz – Yossarian says:
    July 18, 2012 at 9:06 am
    Yo, I don’t say this much but your an idiot. Prior to the current cabal of thieves and idiocy of the american populace government did not live in a vaccum. You needed the consent of the governed to get those sort of things. Eisenhower sold the US on the interstate highway system. Before the US government doled out tax money believe it or not there were roads, schools and basic public services. If people needed a bridge they built it and tolled it to pay for it or sold bonds. The golden gate bridge being a perfect example. FDR and Johnson did so much to sell the notion that government will take care of your needs that idiots like you have internalized it to think it has always been this way.

  108. Mr Obvious says:

    110 – JJ “You have no idea what you’re talking about.”

  109. seif says:

    the “you didn’t build that” refers to the roads and bridges. twist it as much as you want but that is what it is.

  110. chicagofinance says:

    seif: the guy committed a serious gaffe; or worse, he gave us an insight into his (closely guarded) opinion

    seif says:
    July 18, 2012 at 2:20 pm
    the “you didn’t build that” refers to the roads and bridges. twist it as much as you want but that is what it is.

  111. seif says:

    120 – you lose all credibility with angry drivel like that. hang onto that little crumb as long as you want but i think you are smart enough (i could be wrong) to know that the antecedent to “that” is not the business, but “roads and bridges,” as well as the “American system” as a whole.

  112. homeboken says:

    “If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.”

    OK – So if you were successful in life, then you have the prescient group of legislators and public employees to thank for your success.

    On the flip side – If you are homeless crack-addict that never amounted to anything, well you clearly need more of Uncle Sam’s generosity. The gift keeps on giving.

    Let’s face it – The generosity of public programs doesn’t create success, it might help to enable it, but it does not create it. My HS class graduated 300 students. I know of 5 that died of heroine overdoses before 25. I also know several multi-millionaires, doctors, teachers, Wall St’ers and Non-Profit charity founders. Tell me again Mr. Obama how you can paint us with the all-knowing broad brush of how we ended up with our current lot in life?

  113. Anon E. Moose says:

    Seif [119];

    the “you didn’t build that” refers to the roads and bridges.

    Only if you stick your fingers in your ears and sing “LA LA LA LA LA LA” while he says “If you’ve got a business” between the roads and brigdes thing and “You doidn’t build that”. Now who’s selectively editing to fit their preconceived worldview?

    Even accepting your position, you have to admit that Obama can’t seem to string a coherent sentence together to express himself. When leftists were talking about GWB that trait was unforgivable and conclusive proof of his intellectual inferiority. Plus, four years ago Obama was touted as the silver-tongued orator without peer. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

  114. chicagofinance says:

    Moose: Obama is a great speaker….very effective, there is little question; his motives stink…he rather be cool than credible….

  115. seif says:

    123

    123 – I love this. When you guys have to cling to nonsense like this (like you cling to your guns and bibles!!) it is a good sign for the obama campaign. Even if you think – wrong or right – that obama feels that way, hanging your hat on what is clearly an inability to comprehend a sentence properly is just sad and silly.

  116. Juice Box says:

    Not getting much traction in the MSM but might as well toss this one out there again.

    http://news.yahoo.com/arpaio-obama-birth-record-definitely-fraudulent-010211250.html

  117. Juice Box says:

    Question for the gallery. Does Romney go birther directly or via a proxy before this one is over?

  118. Anon E. Moose says:

    Seif [125];

    hanging your hat on what is clearly an inability to comprehend a sentence properly is just sad and silly.

    Lefty trope No. 347 – Those who don’t share the fervor for his O-ness that makes them willing to re-write his sentences for him “don’t comprehend”. Even your own quote puts the words in teh order he said them. Your interpretation requires a strategic thumb over the transcript; differing opinions just “don’t comprehend” — ergo inferior intellect. You always have to be the smartest guy in the room.

    Obama is getting outraised by Romney. The smart money backs the winning horse. O’s lead in NH has been cut in half; Virginia is now a dead heat. Writing on the wall, seif. Do you have the courage to read it?

  119. yo says:

    Is that not a choice you make? They gave you the tools to be successful and you choose that road.Then,you blame it to somebody else.We complain about hard working non documented Mexican but don’t realize, how they see the chance of a better life doing what most Americans will not do.This is democracy at work.You want to see something success was forced to its citizen?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore

    This people were told who to marry, how many kids they can have.Educated seperated from uneducated.Educated can only marry educated.educated are the ones that can have more babies.

    homeboken says;
    OK – So if you were successful in life, then you have the prescient group of legislators and public employees to thank for your success.

    On the flip side – If you are homeless crack-addict that never amounted to anything, well you clearly need more of Uncle Sam’s generosity. The gift keeps on giving.

    Let’s face it – The generosity of public programs doesn’t create success, it might help to enable it, but it does not create it. My HS class graduated 300 students. I know of 5 that died of heroine overdoses before 25. I also know several multi-millionaires, doctors, teachers, Wall St’ers and Non-Profit charity founders. Tell me again Mr. Obama how you can paint us with the all-knowing broad brush of how we ended up with our current lot in life?

  120. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [119] seif,

    Now that is some spin. Obama clearly was talking about the businesses that we didn’t really build. How you get to roads and bridges reminds me of the equation with a section that reads “then a miracle happens”.

    That is the best spin I’ve heard since Carney maintained that the crowd was really saying “yoooooouk.”

  121. Shore Guy says:

    I don’t believe that Obama has a clue about what it takes to run a business, nor does he really respect those wo do so. His comments indicate that he believes that businesses exist to creat jobs, and his attacks against Romney are consistent with that belief. Newsflash! Companies do not exist to creat jobs; taking on employees is not the goal of business owners. One forms a business not to provide a product or a service. One forms a business to generate income. If one can do this without ever hiring a person or creating a single beneficial service or product, so what? Companies hire people because they need their labor, creativity, contacts, or abilities to further the economic intertests of the business owner(s). Hiring employees in a means to an end, not an end in itself.

  122. yo says:

    Just like Stu always say,none of this candidates will make our life any better.We will be back here next election debating the same

  123. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [100] juice,

    Yeah, that would be about all I’m capable of anyway.

  124. yo says:

    In some countries they don’t allow you to own a business.I guess you have to thank the government to let you own a business.

  125. yo says:

    Let us face it.All it takes is a strong dictator to take all this away

  126. seif says:

    130 – this is pointless. see it how you guys want to. cling to it, hug it, sleep with it.

    Nom – you come off as intelligent most of the time (misguided, but intelligent) but the Carney/youk thing was tongue in cheek…he was practically laughing as he said it. he knew, as well as everyone in the room, that they were booing obama because he knocked the red sox. was that not clear to you? did you actually hear it or just read about it? i heard it.

    serious question: do you REALLY think that obama was saying that people don’t build businesses? that the government is responsible for ibm, apple, walmart, mom and pop restaurants etc? is that what you think he was saying?

  127. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [131] shore,

    He has admitted as much so I don’t fault him for not knowing. I met someone who claimed to be in the one office where Obama worked briefly and he considered Obama remarkable for being unremarkable. I do fault him for having synchophamts around him whose closest notion of capitalism is the crony variety.

  128. seif says:

    131 – “Newsflash! Companies do not exist to creat jobs”

    blows a hole right through the “job creators” nonsense, doesn’t it?

  129. Pete says:

    Watch the video. He is referring to roads and bridges when he says “didn’t build that”. End of story.

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/did-obama-say-if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that/

  130. yo says:

    Exactly the point.This coming from a Republicans mouth

    seif says:

    July 18, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    131 – “Newsflash! Companies do not exist to creat jobs”

    blows a hole right through the “job creators” nonsense, doesn’t it?

  131. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Seif,

    I think he said you didn’t do it by yourself, that you can’t without gov help. The entirety of his speech makes that clear. The implication is that the gov helped you so shut up and pay more taxes. The rebuttal is “you mean we haven’t paid enough?”

    Again, its an old meme that Warren also tried to use, with equally bad delivery. Well, maybe not equally bad.

  132. Painhrtz - Yossarian says:

    Yo 135 I stick to my earlier contention that your an idiot.

  133. joyce says:

    Singapore
    Despite its relative economic success, Singapore does not have a minimum wage, believing that it would lower its competitiveness. It also has one of the highest income inequality levels among developed countries, coming in just behind Hong Kong and in front of the United States. The government has rejected the idea of a generous welfare system, stating that each generation must earn and save enough for its entire life cycle.
    (but to be fair they also have)
    There are, however, numerous means-tested ‘assistance schemes’ provided by the government for the needy, free medical care at government hospitals, and some subsidies for children’s school fees, training grants for courses, etc.
    ————————–
    In a very general, they sound less socialist than the US has become over the decades… note, I didn’t mention the extremely low tax/regulation/fraud/corruption environment.

  134. Statler Waldorf says:

    LOL

    “the ‘you didn’t build that’ refers to the roads and bridges.”

  135. joyce says:

    (143)
    Pain

    Frustrating, right?

  136. yo says:

    Pain,
    Live in a country where all this freedom is not allowed and tell me again I am an idiot.

    143.
    Painhrtz – Yossarian says:

    July 18, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    Yo 135 I stick to my earlier contention that your an idiot

  137. yo says:

    #144 your point?

  138. seif says:

    142 – the entirety of the speech is “give a little back” not “government built your business, not you.”

    as i said, keep clinging to it. it belongs to you guys. run with it. i am sure that “pal-ing around with terrorists” will be trotted out again soon as well.

  139. joyce says:

    Obama also said:
    “We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts.”

    Can someone tell me where?

    “We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…”

    That is laughable if it wasn’t such a bold faced lie. If anything, they will double down on the wasteful programs.

    “We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …”

    Cuts + tax increases. I believe they’ll increase the taxes, for sure, but the cuts (even the fake kind) will never happen. Both the blue/red teams are trying to undo the phony cuts (slower increases) that was already agreed to. It’s pathetic.

    Bottom line – neither party will help one darn bit.

  140. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [149] schabadoo ( its you, isn’t it?)

    Are you really reading what I said? Anyone else here think I said what seif thinks I said? Not that I care what you think, I just want to make sure I’m being clear.

  141. joyce says:

    (144)
    Yo,

    My point is quite clear. If some legislator in the United States was adovcating much lower taxes, much lower regulations, NO minimum wage, a much smaller means-tested welfare system… you would be freakin’ out.

  142. Anon E. Moose says:

    Pete [140];

    Even Tapper is not making the argument that you and seif are. All Tapper is doing is putting the full video and transcript up for consideration.

    Tapper says: The president’s argument, which is similar to one made by Massachusetts Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren, revolves around the idea that business people need the infrastructure provided by the government in order to succeed.

    That is not mutually exclusive with the counterpoints that

    the comment was a “slap in the face to hard-working Americans conveyed Obama’s belief that it takes a village – a heavily subsidized village – to create that venture you’re profiting from.”

    or

    the comment was “insulting” to small business owners.

  143. yo says:

    Joyce,
    Will you not be freakin out if this was applied here?

    “Singapore
    Despite its relative economic success, Singapore does not have a minimum wage, believing that it would lower its competitiveness. It also has one of the highest income inequality levels among developed countries, coming in just behind Hong Kong and in front of the United States. The government has rejected the idea of a generous welfare system, stating that each generation must earn and save enough for its entire life cycle.”

  144. seif says:

    153 – again, when you twist the meaning to believe it is what you want it to say, you are correct. that would be like lift the “you are correct” part of that last sentence and headlining:

    Seif Says to Mouse: You Are Correct!

  145. Anon E. Moose says:

    Seif [149];

    i am sure that “pal-ing around with terrorists” will be trotted out again soon as well.

    “Trotted out again”? “Again” presumes that someone in the mainstream media had already investigated or publicized the fact that Obama’s political career was midwifed in Weather Underground bomber Bill Ayers’ living room. Next time would be the first — “again” doesn’t apply. Seems both you and Obama could use some remedial English to get your points across accurately.

    But you’re more interested in how Romney spent his own money (tax returns) than how Obama spends ours (Solyndra, stimulus, …).

  146. chicagofinance says:

    shore: one of the most important conversations I have had in the last 3 years regarding government was with several local Monmouth business-types who have been sucked into Trenton related stuff out of necessity. I came away from that conversation with understanding that anyone in government who has never really worked in business has a warped perception of the top line (i.e. revenues / sales). I asked for clarification…essentially the assume that if someone opens a business they immediate begin servicing customers…..it’s total lost on them that you cannot “appropriate” sales…..they assume you open your door for business and you start counting all the profit…..clueless idiots……. O is one of those people….

    Shore Guy says:
    July 18, 2012 at 3:01 pm
    I don’t believe that Obama has a clue about what it takes to run a business, nor does he really respect those wo do so. His comments indicate that he believes that businesses exist to creat jobs, and his attacks against Romney are consistent with that belief.

  147. Shore Guy says:

    Meanwhile, circling the drain:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/19/business/global/imf-warns-of-sizeable-risk-of-deflation-in-euro-zone.html?pagewanted=all

    FRANKFURT — The International Monetary Fund, warning Wednesday of “a sizable risk” that some euro zone countries could suffer a debilitating decline in prices, called on the European Central Bank to pump money into the region’s economy by buying huge volumes of government bonds.

    Such bond buying, which the U.S. Federal Reserve has undertaken in recent years to stimulate the U.S. economy, is a move the E.C.B. has been reluctant to take, one that would probably stir outrage among the fiscal disciplinarians of Germany.

    And it is unclear whether the I.M.F.’s public push for big spending by the E.C.B. would make it more or less likely for the bank’s president, Mario Draghi, to take action. He, like any central banker, wants to appear immune to outside pressure.

    But the I.M.F. is a respected international organization, and the warning Wednesday of a destructive plunge in prices — known as deflation — could help give the E.C.B. the economic rationale to use the stimulus of buying billions of euros worth government bonds.

    In a report highly critical of euro zone policy, the I.M.F. said there was a 25 percent risk of consumer price deflation before 2014, and that the danger was greatest in countries like Italy where growth is slow and the government is counting on tax increases to help pay down its staggering debt.

    snip

  148. raging bull jj says:

    You can not question my infallible statements.

    [in-fal-uh-buhl]  
    in·fal·li·ble

    adjective

    Immune from fallacy or liability to error in expounding matters of faith or morals by virtue of the promise made by JJ.

    Mr Obvious says:
    July 18, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    110 – JJ “You have no idea what you’re talking about.”

  149. yo says:

    Republicans have been waging class warfare for years — and winning without working up a sweat. For proof, just take a look at the welfare program for the wealthy that is the U.S. tax code.

    Such victories aside, Republicans have always claimed that it’s Democrats who play the class card. Whisper that the top 1 percent pay the lowest tax rate in 80 years and you’re trafficking in class resentment. Help the working and middle classes get health care and you’re a socialist.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-17/this-time-class-warfare-cry-is-true.html

  150. Painhrtz - Yossarian says:

    yo I would welcome it, our poor live better than the middle class in some developed countries.

  151. yo says:

    ???
    Pain,
    Live in a country where all this freedom is not allowed and tell me again I am an idiot.

    Painhrtz – Yossarian says:

    July 18, 2012 at 4:05 pm

    yo I would welcome it, our poor live better than the middle class in some developed countries.

  152. seif says:

    156 – funny stuff. looney toons. take off your foil hat before you go out in this lightning storm

  153. yo says:

    75% INCOME TAX RATE

    Soccer player Zlatan Ibrahimovic, who was signed today by Paris Saint-Germain, will be subject to French President Francois Hollande’s planned 75 percent income tax rate.

    The club’s announcement that it was signing the Swedish striker from AC Milan on a three-year contract forced the French government to clarify whether professional athletes will face the “millionaire tax.” A rate of 75 percent on income of more than 1 million euros ($1.23 million) was among Hollande’s election campaign pledges
    Ibrahimovic will earn 14 million euros annually, sports daily L’Equipe reported. Sports Minister Valerie Fourneyron said that indicates that European football needs more regulation.

  154. grim says:

    Sure, I never built a bridge or a road…

    But I sure as hell pay the taxes that pay for them. In fact, Mr O, you wouldn’t have a job, nor would we have any infrastructure, if it weren’t for taxpayers.

    That fact seems to be lost in all of this.

  155. joyce says:

    154

    no

  156. chicagofinance says:

    You are incredibly obstinate and clearly are not paying attention. You are having a conversation with yourself. Who cares about scum bucket Republicans…..O is a hack; he deserves to get kicked to the curb….case closed….

    yo says:
    July 18, 2012 at 3:58 pm
    Republicans have been waging class warfare for years — and winning without working up a sweat. For proof, just take a look at the welfare program for the wealthy that is the U.S. tax code.

  157. chicagofinance says:

    Also, shore is the most thoughtful, informed, and experienced voice on national politics in these threads. Think twice before you reflexively dismiss his opinions merely because you disagree with them…..

  158. Anon E. Moose says:

    Paying 0.5 pt to buy down the rate by 1/4% should be a no brainer, right? The break-even on payment difference alone is ~36 mos. If you consider the increased equity owing to the lower rate, the break-even is sooner — ~25 mos; i.e., at 36 mos. the payment difference replenishes the points spent, and I’d have more equity to boot; at 25 mos. I’ve saved enough in interest to consider that I’ve broken-even.

  159. Juice Box says:

    Anyone else get the flash flood alert on their Verizon phone?

  160. seif says:

    168 – the master projector

    isn’t this what you do to everyone else?

    chicagofinance says:
    July 18, 2012 at 4:33 pm
    Also, shore is the most thoughtful, informed, and experienced voice on national politics in these threads. Think twice before you reflexively dismiss his opinions merely because you disagree with them…..

  161. joyce says:

    Both teams have their talking points. They shift slowly over the years, sometimes switching sides completely.
    They use the same critiques of each other depending who controls the executive and who controls the congress.

    Example: What happened to the anti-war movement during GWB’s second term? It simply vanished (discounting the liberatarians) because it wasn’t real… it was just something the Blue team could use to criticize the current administration.

    Example: The Red team is complaining about spending now. Where was that complaint during the 2000’s?

    Example: Bush shredded the 4th amendment then, Obama continues it now and more… but certain Blue team supporters say well Bush started it as if that makes one bit of difference. That is a kindergarden response.

    Example: Blue team holds itself out as supporters of blue-collar jobs and the middle class… how many “Free” Trade Agreements have been signed in this curren term alone? Several, just like Bush, just like Clinton, etc etc

    Meat is right – it’s a war with ALL of them against ALL of us.

  162. Good to see seif back into self-loathing liberal mode.

  163. shore (131)-

    Unless you are the gubmint, which is essentially one giant jobs program.

    “Hiring employees in a means to an end, not an end in itself.”

  164. seif says:

    173 -more projection

  165. raging bull jj says:

    You take a mortgage as you want free cash to invest on high yielding opportunities What are you doing with the cash

    Mortgage quote I got was 3.75% on a vacation home. I have to find a risk free rate greater than 3.75% in order to declare that a good rate.

    Anon E. Moose says:
    July 18, 2012 at 4:39 pm

    Paying 0.5 pt to buy down the rate by 1/4% should be a no brainer, right? The break-even on payment difference alone is ~36 mos. If you consider the increased equity owing to the lower rate, the break-even is sooner — ~25 mos; i.e., at 36 mos. the payment difference replenishes the points spent, and I’d have more equity to boot; at 25 mos. I’ve saved enough in interest to consider that I’ve broken-even.

  166. chi (157)-

    Frankly, pretty much anyone who has not created and operated a business thinks that top-line revenues are 100% profit. Talk to somebody about cost of sales, cost of occupation, financing costs, etc, and they look at you like you have three heads.

    TPTB have rendered a critical percentage of the population into drooling retards. And now, they have stepped up their war on the stupid and unentitled.

  167. yo says:

    It does not matter who gets there?
    I just happened to agree with the article.You did not have to read it if it offends you.

    I have the highest respect at Shore’s views and for everyone’s.I mentioned time and again,I learn from the discussions,r else I will not waste my time in this blog.My views are just my opinion.I don’t know who is right or wrong,only time will tell.I join some discussion to throw my 10 cents.Hell,nobody even knows or can see me,why not get wild?

    chicagofinance says:

    July 18, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    You are incredibly obstinate and clearly are not paying attention. You are having a conversation with yourself. Who cares about scum bucket Republicans…..O is a hack; he deserves to get kicked to the curb….case closed….

    yo says:
    July 18, 2012 at 3:58 pm
    Republicans have been waging class warfare for years — and winning without working up a sweat. For proof, just take a look at the welfare program for the wealthy that is the U.S. tax code

  168. Chicago machine political hack, or sophisticated financial skimmer?

    The only logical choice is stockpiling firearms.

  169. Comrade Nom Deplume says:
  170. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [180] beer

    Guns. Check.
    Bullets. Check.
    Shiny. Check.
    Nompound. Check.

    All we need are lampposts, ropes and a list of registered [insert party here].

  171. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [164]

    I’m sure that PSG had to include a tax gross-up provision in the contract.

    On a related note, I wonder if the socialist victory had any role in Newcastle’s latest signings. We’ll have to start calling the team Le Toon (Les Toon? Is Toon plural?)

  172. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Of course, one won’t know if France pulled a Maryland until the law takes effect and we get tax receipt data.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9404209/Frances-proposed-tax-hikes-spark-exodus-of-wealthy.html

    BTW, Seif and Yo, this nonexistent phenomenon is referred to as “deadweight loss” in tax policy circles. Admittedly a funny term. Never understood why “deadweight” but some wonk probably penned it and it stuck.

  173. grim says:

    185 comments on a Wednesday – Pretty crazy

    Just when I thought this place was starting to die out.

    One more FYI – We’re still tracking at somewhere around 8500 unique visitors a day

  174. xmonger says:

    #165. Grim, I would add…

    I haven’t seen a road, bridge, or tunnel ever built in NYC in my lifetime.

  175. chicagofinance says:

    How much is spammy bot type of traffic in your estimation?

    grim says:
    July 18, 2012 at 5:52 pm
    One more FYI – We’re still tracking at somewhere around 8500 unique visitors a day

  176. prtraders says:

    186

    I was thinking the same thing. 8500 visitors. Wow. What’s that 8,490 lurkers?

  177. A Home Buyer says:

    186 -Grim

    I’m still convinced all the posters on this blog are really just a single person with Dissociative Identity Disorder brought on by the stress of an underwater mortgage, the stress of which shattered their psyche.

  178. pr (189)-

    More like 8,490 monitors from the DOJ.

  179. I didn’t need an underwater mortgage to trigger my dissociative personality.

  180. Nom, I for one am enjoying the silence from the Wankers fan. Nothing steels the confidence like your 40-goal scorer announcing he’d rather play for anyone but them.

  181. Van Persie house-hunting in Manchester…

  182. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Yo 160 Help middle class get health care yes all for it, but the plan su*ks.

  183. Fabius Maximus says:

    Shore,

    before I start into the politics, I thought I would share this from my sister. She was at the Springsteen gig in Dublin.

    “he had an electric switch and started with ‘before I was rudely interrupted’, and proceeded to finish his Beatles number from Hyde park!”

  184. WickedOrange says:

    RE: 188 Google Analytics does a pretty good job of excluded search indexing and spam bots. GA also uses a first party cookie vs. a third part cookie that would have a lower browser acceptance rate. 8,500 is probably pretty legit.

    How does daily visitors compare to daily visits? That would give rough idea how often visitors are checking the site each day.

  185. AG says:

    I, for one, wouldn’t go within 100 miles of London. Its a giant illuminist wankfest.

  186. seif says:

    oh sh*t!!! Rombot is socialist too!!!

    “There are a lot of people in government who help us and allow us to have an economy that works and allow entrepenuers and business leaders of various kinds to start businesses and create jobs. We all recognize that. That’s an important thing.”
    – Mitt Romney 7/18/12

  187. AG says:

    Re: Politics

    I usually enjoy political theatre but its no longer entertaining. This has to be the worst election in my lifetime. Obama the foreign national vs Mittens the neocon opportunist.

    Even GWB vs Al Gore was better. Ross Perot deserved better back in the 90’s.

    Ill sit this one out. Hoping the Ron Paul delegates make the RNC into a fiasco. That would be entertaining.

  188. Fabius Maximus says:

    #196 Juice

    Stewart hit that out of the park.

    The tax returns issue is a calculation and I think it has been made that full disclosure will do more damage than good. With every return running a few hundred pages, he can’t be 100% certain that there is no major issue in there that can blow up against him. He is also fighting against the fact that while a strategy might be legal, it may not look good. NPR had a piece today that could be an exit strategy for him. Do what Arnie did. Hire a room; invite a select group of respected journalists. Give them one hour to go over the returns, no notes, no copies to be taken and then cope with the fallout.
    What a lot on the right miss, is that the argument is not that Mitt is rich. It is more that he is so far out of touch from the majority of the voters. He has a severe lack of charisma and is running the worst campaign I have ever seen. Mike Bloomberg is a lot richer and a lot more successful. His big difference is that he can connect with the people and can use his wealth to political advantage. When Susan G Komen pulled funding from Planned Parenthood, he stepped up and wrote a 250K check to cover the shortfall. Pure political gold.
    To recover and get back in this race, Mitt needs a home run speech. Just like O pivoted off his race speech in 08 to diffuse Rev Wright, Mitt needs a Gordon Gecko level “greed is good” speech to level the playing field and make this issue fade.
    But there again when Tax issue fades, then Immigration will step up and that is top of a long list of actual issues Mitt has to defend his position on.

  189. AG says:

    Here is a list of the things Americans wont be getting.

    1. Medicare
    2. Universal health care
    3. Social Security
    4. Pensions

    Americans, myself included, have led very cushy lives by world standards. Now its time to take the medicine.

    It isnt going to get better. Its only going to get worse. Consider yourselves lucky that you get to live through such interesting times. History books will be all over this time period. Or maybe not.

  190. WickedOrange says:

    Also how much of that traffic is from a mobile device? The lack of true NJRE mobile support is a pet peeve.

    http://wpwidgets.net/3-of-the-best-wordpress-plugins-to-make-your-site-mobile-friendly/

  191. ag (204)-

    Right you are. All we are going to get for the next 50 years or so is the business end of a plunger handle.

  192. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [201] seif,

    The pernicious effects of life in Massachusetts no doubt. Oh snap, I’m a GD socialist too???

  193. Fabius Maximus says:

    #127 Juice

    Question for the gallery. Does Romney go birther directly or via a proxy before this one is over?

    Mitt can’t go there, to do so he would have to explain his fathers run and that opens up a whole entitlement thread.

  194. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [194] meat,

    I’d prefer him to be househunting on the Tyne. No guarantees we keep our dembas.

  195. seif says:

    207 to me GD stands for Grateful Dead.

    peace, love, music!!!

  196. Fabius Maximus says:

    #193 Clot

    Does that mean you are calling for our relegation again this year.

    I love the polite applause.
    http://footyroom.com/chemnitz-1-0-newcastle-united-2012-07/

  197. Fabius Maximus says:

    #168 Chi

    “the most thoughtful, informed, and experienced voice on national politics in these threads”

    What, no love for me here. I have called this since 2008. I have nailed this political climate and this election like JJ nailed his AMBAC coupon.

  198. Fabius Maximus says:

    #156 Moose

    “Trotted out again”?

    I had to sit through an episode of Huckabee on Fox and he was rehashing this. I like this was buried four years ago. While this might be meat and ratings for the base, it shows that they have nothing on O. There is an attempt at trying to get him on smoking weed in college. Bill showed how to side step that one and these days that is a non issue when even the army and most of domestic retail can get basic recruits/applicants through the tests.

  199. Juice Box says:

    Fab- He isn’t going to get off easy on his taxes and Bain anytime soon.

    http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/18/bain-never-left-romney/

  200. AG says:

    Do the libtards really think they are going to get things for free?

    Do you really think you are going to get free healthcare? Doc’s are already opting out of Medicare. It pays like sh_t even when you struggle to get paid.

    Medicare patients will end up like this. Denial of access with political blame on Dr.’s.

    There will be consolidation of care around health systems. X amount of money per population. Think clinics. The days of spending 2 million bucks on an 80 year old diabetic are over.

    The wild card is whether the private sector can survive. They adapt well but eventually they wont be able to compete.

    Better to get to know people in the system. Black market style. Thats one thing America lacks. A sophisticated black market. It will come though.

  201. yo says:

    If we got our manufacturing workers compete against the 3rd world laborer don’t you think we can have doctors from other countries do that job?We have tons of Indians or foreign educated doctors in the country already.They don’t have loans to pay off.Just saying

  202. AG says:

    216,

    Sure we can. You haven’t seen 3rd world Dr.’s operate. I have.

  203. Shore Guy says:

    FM,

    Great Dublin story. The English behaved badly the other night.

  204. Shore Guy says:

    Chifi,

    Thank you for the kind words. Where do I send the check?

  205. Shore Guy says:

    A story ripe for JJ, apparently 600 years ago in Austria, linen panties were a sign of male dominance. I don’t know that I am buying that.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/austrian-finds-bras-from-15th-century-_-500-years-before-garment-thought-invented/2012/07/18/gJQAS01btW_story.html

  206. Fabius Maximus says:

    #214 Juice,

    Two points here. The first will be the WTF call back to Bain. The call to “run silent” should have gone out to them nine months ago. The part you have to look at here is, why this and why now. The campaigns from Santorum, Perry and even McCain are available to Mitt. They would have dug up anything they could possibly throw. The campaign should have moved to negate anything damaging and had a standard boilerplate responses to anything else that was left.
    Mitts pivot point here is. “I will try and pull this division out of Bain and I will show, that America can lead the world in Industry and America can fight in High Tech and that the American car industry and the industries that surround them are and will continue to be world class. ” Now the fact that, any deal to make that happen would be after November is easily spun. It is the perfect, if you don’t win, you don’t have to buy it scenario.

  207. Shore Guy says:

    “foreign educated doctors ”

    The main reason for this is that we do not allow enough people into medical school here.

  208. Shore Guy says:

    http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/19/us-usa-campaign-romney-idINBRE86F1CM20120719

    snip

    Some Republicans fret that by not dealing with the tax issue head on Romney is allowing himself to be defined negatively instead of moving on. He has a good argument that he is a proven job creator, a family man and a former governor who navigated a difficult political environment in largely Democratic Massachusetts, Republicans say.

    “I think they totally botched it,” said a Republican strategist, who spoke on condition of anonymity. “I think they had a chance to deal with this months ago during the primary. And when this came up initially, they just let it hang out there.”

    Romney released tax information from 2010 and 2011 earlier this year when Republican primary opponents accused him of paying less than ordinary Americans.

    snip

  209. Mikeinwaiting says:

    AG 217 beg to differ, do not paint with such a broad brush.

  210. yo says:

    Do you have a chinese,indian,filipino doctors now? It will be the same.They all went to the same school in their own country.In fact ,many doctors go to mexico and the carribean for school nowadays

  211. Shore Guy says:

    “The campaign should have moved to negate anything damaging and had a standard boilerplate responses to anything else that was left.”

    Yup! Romney is blowing it. The field this year sucked, apart from Huntsman who dropped out too early, and is the only one Obama had to fear.

  212. Shore Guy says:

    “many doctors go to mexico and the carribean for school nowadays”

    And Italy, and, and, and. Qgain, the problem is that American medical schools admit too few students. St. Georges in Grenada places a boatload of residents in U.S. hospitals every year.

  213. yo says:

    And add to limited admittance to medical school is the high cost of medical education

  214. Shore Guy says:

    Offshore often costs more , so I have heard.

  215. yo says:

    We opened our borders for registered nurses for a long time.That worked out well.Benefitted the country and the poor person from the 3rd world

  216. Shore Guy says:

    I am all for taking the best and brightest from everywhere. That said, many of our shortages are self-inflicted.

  217. yo says:

    I will not argue that

  218. AG says:

    225,

    Yo,

    You are willing to roll the dice I am not. Theres a lot of sh_t out there. If you got lucky congrats but eventually you wont.

  219. Shore Guy says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3API5MnicU4

    Mitt dances around the issues.

  220. AG says:

    227,

    Shore,

    The day I let my wife get treated by a Grenada medical school graduate is the day I cut my neck with a 10 blade.

  221. AG says:

    230.

    Yo,

    It worked with Phillipinos. It failed miserably with Irish nurses.

  222. Shore Guy says:

    With each passing day, the question that seems to loom is, just how many electoral votes over 300 will BO get?

  223. Shore Guy says:

    Well, I am depressed enough for one night.

  224. AG says:

    237,

    Obama has it locked up. No one likes Romney. All by design. 10% of Republicans are Ron Paul supporters. Even in NJ. Neocons dont have a hope of winning this election. Stupid b_stards should have nominated Ron Paul. Now we all get 4 more years of the Kenyan.

  225. cobbler says:

    What we are seeing with the MDs shortage and high average earnings is the result of protectionism selectively applied to a significant part of the economy (17% of GDP goes to healthcare, probably a third of this is docs’ pay?). Had we not engaged in all the free-trade stuff (long-term great only for the large business, consumer first gains from cheap goods, then loses from convergence of his income with his peers overseas), I guess the medical expenses would have largely tracked the GDP (ditto the college costs) – instead, they diverged impoverishing everyone not in the protected field, and making a blow of globalization yet more painful. From 2 ways out (import more doctors, or build a protections’ wall for the rest of the economy), my strong preference is for the second.

  226. Fabius Maximus says:

    #226 Shore

    I’m in here on record on Huntsman. I would add TPAW into that mix. While he would lose a little on a lower stature of VP. He can still bring a lot to the ticket and as the nomination would have brought a lot to the table.

    The undercard is always a wonderful study. 2000 McCain and 2008 Huckabee, candidates in that particular time frame, could have won. BTW, I’m not suggesting that they would have won, but more that they could have run the result closer and better.

  227. Fabius Maximus says:

    #139 AG

    Yes you got one part right, no one likes Romney!
    When you want a realistic disection of Ron Paul, let me know!

  228. joyce says:

    cobbler,
    With the average person’s income shrinking, where did the demand come from to allow the costs of healthcare and college to sprial updwards? Was it all the inflation created by the FED reserve system directed into those two industries (and a few others) by the federal government?
    (of course it was)

  229. joyce says:

    Fabius,
    re: Ron Paul

    I would love one.

  230. chicagofinance says:

    q

  231. cobbler says:

    joyce [243]
    Healthcare and college costs sucked in all the savings consumers supposedly got from having cheaper imported merchandise and services. These industries don’t have meaningful foreign competition (OK, some medical tourism for elective surgeries, also Caribbean med schools), so as the demand grows they are able to control supply and boost prices. FED doesn’t make the population grow older and sicker, neither it makes folks believe that without going to college their kids are destined to stand by the cash register (though, it is so even with this education…). Just check how much you will be charged if your house heater goes down on a frosty Saturday night in January…

  232. 2012 news says:

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  233. joyce says:

    cobbler,
    I completely agree these horrific “free” trade agreements are anything but; they are all one-sided and benefit individuals running multinational corporations at the expense of individuals of the middle class/poor here in the US. However, we do not need strict protectionism. In the absence of these one-sided trade agreements, we could still benefit with some imports from countries that have a comparative advantage in a given product/industry. The savings that it would generate would free up capital to be invested in other areas (yes some workers would be displaced, temporarily, but not permanently unemployed). But it is the inflationary debt-based monetary system we have does not provide incentives to invest in long term production but short term speculation and financial engineering. (and a little is to blame for the overly generous welfare system that provides incentives not to work, not to train and learn new skills, but to just live on the dole).

  234. Fabius Maximus says:

    #244 Joyce

    Ok, let me know how far down the rabbit hole you want to go!
    http://tinyurl.com/6t98bcy

  235. joyce says:

    cobbler,
    re: college education
    You do realize that government guarantees the student loans made by banks. Moreover, it is the only kind of debt that is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. There is ZERO risk to the lender so of course they will lend any amount of money to the students regardless of how overprice the tuition is in relation to the job prospects of their chosen major.
    The people running the universities were not so stupid and realized they could charge WHATEVER they wanted and the students would be able to borrow it, all they had to do was lower their standards to allow more and more people in.

    Healthcare and college, and other things like food/energy/housing, not only sucked in all the savings from lower consumer electronics and the like, but it sucked in all the credit provided by the FED reserve system’s inflation. If all the savings were gone and incomes were stagnating, NO ONE could have afforded it and the prices couldn’t have continued to rise.
    No the federal govt doesn’t make people sicker and older, but again, if nobody can afford something at the price offered (like a medical procedure in demand), then it will either not happen if not economically feasible, or the price will be lowered and the supplier will accept smaller profit margins.

    I completely agree the medical system needs more competition. MUCH MORE. The govt has granted it so many monopolistic protections they are impossible to list in full. Over at the market ticker, Denninger has done a great job commenting on all the abuses.

  236. joyce says:

    Fabius,
    How did I know it was going to be some wedge issue nonsense that distorts what he has said numerous times.
    My other guess was that you were going to say the ‘hypocrite’ line with regards to SS.

    I would like to see some evidence that 20% of women are victims of rape.

  237. cobbler says:

    joyce [248]
    At least we’ve come to a partial agreement… But, inflationary debt-based monetary system provides incentives to invest in long-term production in Germany or Singapore why?
    As for welfare, I am always of two minds… there are so many actual jobs (and quite a few of these well-paid) that don’t create anything of real value or actually produce harm. I’d give the welfare benefits to anyone willing to commit to 30 hrs/week or so of community service, as long as they are not disabled – and throw off the dole those who won’t keep this commitment. I think it will be a bargain to the taxpayers, and a strong incentive to the recipients to get real jobs…

  238. joyce says:

    Your idea of welfare is obviously an improvement on the current system. That being said, you are still advocating govt sponsored theft and believe that the production of certain people automatically belong to everyone.
    If I cannot lawfully take my neighbor’s property, than how can I morally justify using an intermediary to do it for me. What’s the difference if it’s a thief wearing a mask or an IRS badge?

    (I will comment on Singapore/Germany tomorrow… it’s a long answer and I’m SOO tired)

  239. ag (215)-

    Our survival depends upon how quickly we can develop a robust black market.

  240. cobbler says:

    joyce [250]
    I concluded too early that we’ve come to some agreement… College inflation was as bad before the bankruptcy code reform that made the loans non-dischargeable… what the reform did was to encourage the lenders to give these loans to totally rotten risks – guys who have zero chance of graduation, so it started this huge proliferation of for-profit schools and kept colleges that don’t deserve to stay in operation, running. Harvard will not have a problem filling their class even if the tuition goes up to 100K/yr, and they would charge 15% interest on the loans…

    For the affordable v. non-affordable medical procdures… I guess your points are true for something not perceived as life-saving. However if say health insurers develop guts not to pay for Provenge (prostate cancer drug that costs $100K or so per treatment and extends life by a couple of months), the majority of folks if given a chance will take money from their life insurance policies, one can do it if the docs say he’s got less than a year to live, and pay up…

  241. We will also benefit by developing a Pol Pot-style method to execute as many gubmint employees and politicians in as short a time as possible.

  242. joyce says:

    255
    Cobbler,

    What changed?

    Yeah, sure, Harvard and Yale can charge anything they want… what does that prove? The 99% of other colleges cannot charge exhorbitant tuitions without the government subsidies. Everything you said in that paragraph before that aligns with what I said. Of course the proliferation of crappy for profit schools was another by-produce.

    Healthcare… of course people will take whatever money they can no matter how futile their diagnosis and life expectancy is; what does that prove? Medicare covers Provenge which is one of countless examples of pathetic policy and waste within that system. Again, you are aligning with what I said exactly. Without the government giving money away, Provenge would not have been brought to market in its current form/price.

  243. joyce says:

    by-produce = by-product.

    wow, i’m tired, tomorrow’s another day

  244. yo says:

    Joyce,
    I know you are against inflation even if it is minimal as you have seen on charts for the last 30 years.Central banks target was always at the 2.0 we had between 3 and 4.5.We had high inflation in the 70’s due to oil . Where do you really stand?Stagflation or deflation?Explain if there are other choices.Can we run an economy without the 3?

  245. yo says:

    Joyce,
    Provenge is brought to market and at a high price due to government granted patent monopolies.It takes 10 years before the patent expires before anyone can compete with the drug.No Generic choices.It has nothing to do with inflation.We grant companies trademarks and patents,the result is a monopoly of the market.

    Joyce says,
    Without the government giving money away, Provenge would not have been brought to market in its current form/price.

  246. yo says:

    Medicare/medicaid has a set price that they pay with this drugs.I dont think the government is giving money away.If a consumer will have to pay for this drugs on their own,you are right prices will come down to the price what 3rd world countries pay.But we might as well buy the drug from the 3rd world right now,but that is against the law.Point is Patents gives no competition.Has nothing to do with what help the government gives to its citizen

  247. yo says:

    By the way even germany who is strongly against inflation is running between 1.8 and 5.0 probably average 3.0

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/inflation-cpi

  248. yo says:

    Apple Inc. (AAPL) was ordered by a judge to publish a notice on its U.K. website and in British newspapers alerting people to a ruling that Samsung Electronics Co. didn’t copy designs for the iPad.

    The notice should outline the July 9 London court decision that Samsung’s Galaxy tablets don’t infringe Apple’s registered designs, Judge Colin Birss said yesterday. It should be posted on Apple’s U.K. home page for six months and published in newspapers and magazines to correct any impression the South Korea-based company was copying Apple’s product, Birss said.

    The order means Apple will have to publish “an advertisement” for Samsung, Richard Hacon, a lawyer for Cupertino, California-based Apple, told the court. “No company likes to refer to a rival on its website.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-18/apple-must-publish-notice-samsung-didn-t-copy-ipad-judge-says.html

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