Jersey Comeback? Not in AC.

From Bloomberg:

Christie-Backed Revel Atlantic City Plans Bankruptcy

Revel AC Inc., the casino owner that New Jersey Governor Chris Christie bet on to revive Atlantic City, plans to file for a prepackaged bankruptcy that will reduce its debt burden by more than $1 billion.
Certain Revel lenders will provide about $250 million in debtor-in-possession financing, including $45 million of new loans, the company said yesterday in a statement. No taxpayer money will be used to finance the restructuring, Revel said.

Revel, Atlantic City’s first new casino since 2003, opened in April at a cost of $2.6 billion with the help of Christie, who helped restart the project after Morgan Stanley abandoned construction. An attempt to bring higher-end customers to the seaside city, Revel has struggled to attract business, suffering an added setback when Hurricane Sandy forced its closure for five days starting Oct. 28. New Jersey, faced with regional competition, saw its total gambling revenue fall 8 percent to $3 billion in 2012, the sixth year of declines.

Revel had the second-lowest gambling revenue among the market’s 12 resorts in January, according to New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement data compiled by Bloomberg Industries analysts.

The company’s $900 million term loan due in 2017 traded at 38 cents on the dollar yesterday, according to prices compiled by Bloomberg. The debt was arranged by JPMorgan Chase & Co. in February 2011.

With encouragement from Christie, the state’s Economic Development Authority granted $261 million in tax incentives to help jump start stalled construction of the project in February 2011. Christie, a Republican, signed legislation at the Revel construction site that created a state tourism district in the city, boosted marketing of the resorts and eased regulations on casino operators.

“My vision for Atlantic City is that Atlantic City needs to become Las Vegas East,” the governor said in a January 2011 interview with Bloomberg News.

Christie stepped in after Morgan Stanley walked away from the beachfront project in 2010, halting funding on what was conceived as the city’s biggest resort and writing off most of its $1.2 billion investment.

“We are committed to the resurgence of Atlantic City, the tourism district, and the many efforts currently underway to bring world-class attractions and entertainment to the city,” Michael Drewniak, a spokesman for Christie, said in an e-mailed statement.

This entry was posted in Economics, Politics, Shore Real Estate, South Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

120 Responses to Jersey Comeback? Not in AC.

  1. Essex says:

    Got Shiny?

  2. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Home Construction in U.S. Probably Cooled From Four-Year High

    New residential construction in the U.S. probably cooled in January from a four-year high, signaling the industry’s momentum paused at the start of 2013, economists said before a report today.

    Builders broke ground on houses at a 920,000 annual rate, down from December’s 954,000 pace that was the fastest since June 2008, according to the median estimate of 85 economists surveyed by Bloomberg. Housing permits, a proxy for future construction, probably rose.

    “It’s a moderate recovery,” said John Silvia, chief economist at Wells Fargo Securities LLC in Charlotte, North Carolina, the largest U.S. mortgage lender. “We’re seeing some month-to-month volatility. Housing is getting better.”

    The housing report is due from the Commerce Department at 8:30 a.m. in Washington. Estimates in the Bloomberg survey ranged from 870,000 to 1 million. Building permits may have climbed in January to a 920,000 annual rate, the highest since July 2008, according to the survey median.

  3. grim says:

    1 – No lack of gold chains on the Jersey shore.

  4. Revel is proof that Christie is no different than McGravy or Corslime. Why should anyone in gubmint step in to encourage the construction of a building (a casino, no less) that has no reason to exist? That place should never have been built.

  5. Fat Man = big talk, very little action

  6. grim says:

    4 -The thought is, by investing in AC, you can turn poverty into prosperity. Maybe if there were a few more jobs, or a few more tax dollars, it could just all turn around. (Maybe if we just had online gaming, it would be enough).

    The problem is, that won’t ever happen. It’s just not enough, you can’t turn a slum into a luxury resort destination just by calling it so. Until they bring the bulldozers in and tear down the vast majority of the city, the projects, the low income, and push it all out, it just won’t change. You need a master plan that involves taking of large swaths of property through eminent domain and relocation of existing residents far outside of the redevelopment areas, and outside the view of the major thoroughfares. Shut down the shelters, the kitchens, etc. Why the f*ck are there methadone clinics in AC?

    I’m sure I’m going to hell for even suggesting this, but it’s the truth. Las Vegas East? Are you kidding, it’s not even close, not even remotely close. It’s an insult to Vegas really. I’ve been to Vegas at least a dozen times now, and I’ve been to AC a total of 3 or 4. Not once did I ever feel I wasn’t safe in Vegas. AC? I wouldn’t walk outside at night. Worst thing that can happen to you in Vegas is one of those guys on the corner gives you the phone number of a hooker, in AC? You’ll get stabbed. I’m sure Vegas has the crime, the poverty, the mentally ill, but if they know anything, it’s how to manage perception and run a tight ship.

    AC is like Newark, Paterson, Camden with a Casino.

  7. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  8. Long time lurker & observer says:

    This is from an article in Salon. But I think it hits the big point of what is really happenning to the economy. As the “southern economics” mentality takes hold, it really means that we are all in the way to Mississippi’s quality of life.

    —-

    Contemporary American politics cannot be understood apart from the North-South divide in the U.S., as I and others have argued. Neither can contemporary American economic debates. The real choice facing America in the 21st century is the same one that faced it in the 19th and 20th centuries — Northernomics or Southernomics?

    Northernomics is the high-road strategy of building a flourishing national economy by means of government-business cooperation and government investment in R&D, infrastructure and education. Although this program of Hamiltonianism (named after Washington’s first Treasury secretary, Alexander Hamilton) has been championed by maverick Southerners as prominent as George Washington, Henry Clay and Abraham Lincoln (born in Kentucky to a Southern family), the building of a modern, high-tech, high-wage economy has been supported chiefly by political parties based in New England and the Midwest, from the Federalists and the Whigs through the Lincoln Republicans and today’s Northern Democrats.

    Southernomics is radically different. The purpose of the age-old economic development strategy of the Southern states has never been to allow them to compete with other states or countries on the basis of superior innovation or living standards. Instead, for generations Southern economic policymakers have sought to secure a lucrative second-tier role for the South in the national and world economies, as a supplier of commodities like cotton and oil and gas and a source of cheap labor for footloose corporations. This strategy of specializing in commodities and cheap labor is intended to enrich the Southern oligarchy. It doesn’t enrich the majority of Southerners, white, black or brown, but it is not intended to.

    Contrary to what is often said, the “original sin” of the South is not slavery, or even racism. It is cheap, powerless labor.

    Before 1900, the cheap labor was used to harvest export crops like cotton and lumber. Beginning around 1900, Southern states sought to reap benefits from the new industrial economy by supplying national manufacturing companies with pools of cheap, powerless labor as well. For a century now, Southern state economic development policies have sought to lure companies from high-wage, high-service states, by promising low wages and docile workers. Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s recent appeals to California businesses to relocate to the Lone Star State are the most recent example.

    The essence of the Southern economic model is not low taxation, but a lack of bargaining power by Southern workers of all races. Bargaining power at the bottom of the income scale is created by tight labor markets; unions; minimum wage laws combined with unemployment insurance; and social insurance, such as Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid.

    Naturally, the 21st-century descendants of Jefferson Davis and John C. Calhoun want to weaken everything that strengthens the ability of a Southern worker to say to a Southern employer: “Take this job and shove it!”

    Tight labor markets are anathema to Southern employers. They want loose labor markets that create a buyer’s market in wage labor. That is why, at a time of mass unemployment among low-skilled workers in the U.S., most of the calls for expanding unskilled immigration in the form of “guest worker” programs are coming from Southern and Southwestern politicians. Guest workers — that is, indentured servants bound to a single employer and unable to quit — are the ideal workers, from a neo-Confederate perspective. They are cheap and unfree.

    Needless to say, private sector unions that pool worker bargaining power are anathema to today’s suave metropolitan successors to the slave-owning plantocracy. The whole point of the Southern model of economic development is to create a non-union region from Virginia to Texas, to which companies can be induced to move from states with unionized workforces. Besides, unions engage in collective bargaining, in violation of the Southern ideal of employer-worker relations, in which the master gives orders and the fearful worker obeys without question.

    A high national minimum wage also threatens the Southern conservative program for stealing jobs and industries from other states and other countries. Particularly if it is combined with generous unemployment insurance, a high minimum wage gives Southern workers the ability to turn down jobs that pay poorly — that is to say, the majority of jobs in the South, if the Southern elite has its way. While the Southern right opposes a higher federal minimum wage, it has no objection to increases in the minimum wage by Northern states, which thereby help the South lure more businesses.

    Ruthless and callous as they are, the old families and nouveaux riches who make up the Southern elite don’t want their workers to starve. On the other hand, they prefer not to pay a wage adequate for the necessities of life. The solution favored by the Southern oligarchy is the earned income tax credit, a wage subsidy to workers that tops up a too-low wage paid by the employer.

    The major champions of the EITC in national politics have tended to be conservative Democrats from the South, like the late Lloyd Bentsen, a reactionary born into the South Texas aristocracy, and Louisiana’s Sen. Russell Long. What makes the EITC so appealing to Southern Democrats and Southern Republicans alike is that it forces the Northern and Western states, by means of the Internal Revenue Service, to subsidize low-wage businesses in the South, even as the South is using the poverty of its workforce to lure high-wage businesses from the North and West. Every penny spent on the federal EITC is a penny that Southern state governments and Southern employers do not have to spend on Southern workers to keep them from starving. By paying taxes to the federal government to fund the EITC, Americans in high-wage states are literally subsidizing the South’s job-stealing program. The progressive policy wonks who prefer a higher EITC to a higher minimum wage are useful idiots, from the perspective of the crafty Southern political-business elite.

    Finally, there is the welfare state. Universal, portable social insurance programs like Social Security and Medicare increase the bargaining power of workers, by reducing the penalty for quitting a job because of poor wages or poor treatment. If they quit, they don’t endanger their healthcare access or their retirement security. Workers with adequate social insurance are more likely — to use a time-honored Southern phrase — to be “uppity.”

    Apart from a high federal minimum wage, nothing could be a greater threat to the Southern cheap-labor economic strategy than universal, standardized federal social insurance. In order to maximize the dependence of Southern workers on Southern employers in the great low-wage labor pool of the former Confederacy, it would be best to have no welfare at all, only local charity (funded and controlled, naturally, by the local wealthy families).

    But if there must be a modern welfare system, then the Southern oligarchy prefers a system that allows state governments, rather than Washington, D.C., to control eligibility and benefit levels. By controlling eligibility, Southern state governments can minimize the amount of the local workforce that has access to good social insurance, reducing the power of Southern workers to be “uppity.” At the same time, giving Southern states the option to have lower benefit levels provides the neo-Confederates with yet another bargaining chip, along with low wages and low taxes, that can be used by Southern state governments to lure business from more generous states or nations.

    It is all a system, you see. Southern conservative policies toward immigration, labor unions, the minimum wage and social insurance don’t reflect supposed conservative or libertarian ideologies or values, even if conservative or libertarian intellectuals are paid to dream up after-the-fact rationalizations. These policies are reinforcing components of a well-thought-out economic grand strategy to permit the South, as a nation-within-a-nation in the U.S., to pimp its cheap, dependent labor for the benefit of local and foreign (non-Southern) corporations and investors.

    “Pimp” is the mot juste. In the 1960s, conservatives referred derisively to community activists who were accused of lining their own pockets while representing the urban poor as “poverty pimps.” But the real “poverty pimps” in America are members of the Southern political class — many Southern Democrats and practically all Southern Republicans. By means of permanent economic repression of most Southerners of all races, Southern strategists hope to strip the non-Southern states of the Union of their best companies and industries, thereby crippling Northern revenue bases and sending Northern economies into death spirals.

    The defeat of Southernomics is therefore in the interest of most Southerners and most non-Southerners alike. And the defeat of Southernomics requires the radical empowerment of Southern workers — white, black and brown alike. No American workers anywhere in the nation can ever be secure until the wage earners of the South are powerful and prosperous. And uppity.

  9. Essex says:

    5. He’s brought down the teachers. Now that’s something.

  10. grim (7)-

    Classic no-win situation. No demand, yet they kept building the thing for which there was no demand.

    The only way these situations get traction is through the assistance of gubmint troglodytes who don’t understand simple economics.

  11. freedy says:

    Atlantic City has been over for many years. Now they want to let MGM back in .Why?

    They passed on Steve Wynn, Shelly is over in PA. AC lost the chance many years ago.

    Its a do over . Get the wrecking ball out

  12. JJ says:

    Revel AC I wonder if any NJ taxpayer money is getting lost.

    Honestly, AC is not a gambling destination anymore. There I said it

  13. Brian says:

    They should legalize prostitution in AC.

    Beats gambling. At least people would leave AC feeling like winners.

  14. Anon E. Moose says:

    Re: [9];

    Salon does a hatchet job parading all their metropolitan prejudices about people ‘too stupid to vote blue’ and calls it economic analysis. Color me surprised.

  15. Phoenix says:

    [14] Brian
    As long as you drink enough to forget the fact that she was toothless.

  16. nwnj says:

    “Essex says:
    February 20, 2013 at 8:00 am
    5. He’s brought down the teachers. Now that’s something.

    He hasn’t done sh!t but run his mouth.

  17. Painhrtz - The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch says:

    Grim try pumping gas on Brigantine at midnight. guy i was working with had a gun pulled on him. Had to drive through that hole everyday on my way to school. I hate AC.

    Detroit with better beaches.

  18. JJ says:

    Every ho has a purpose, toothless if great for 4 am $5 drive through BJs, maybe get Jarret from Subway yelling $5 dollar, $5 dollar and all footlongs get a free BJ

    Phoenix says:
    February 20, 2013 at 8:41 am

    [14] Brian
    As long as you drink enough to forget the fact that she was toothless.

  19. anon says:

    9. yep. That’s why we all smart folk live in the north. people here would rather move out of the USA (chile, Costa Rica or to a Far East island in the case of yome) than live in the south.

  20. Outofstater says:

    #9 Nicely sums up nearly every regional bias against the South I have ever heard. The author of that piece forgot to mention that Southerners are all stupid, fat, in-bred, toothless, Bible thumping, Nascar-loving trailer trash who drink moonshine out of Mason jars. Oh well, that’s okay. The Southern Baptists will still load up their trucks and head to NY and NJ to feed the people after a disaster. I’m sure we’ll have tornadoes down here this spring. Maybe some of “y’all” can come down and return the favor.

  21. JJ says:

    Not a soul from down South came up here to help. They hate us.
    The Mormons from Utah came by and helped.
    My last few times in Atlanta I was not impressed at all. Last time I rode the Marta from airport and it was scary, considering I rode the 5 train in the bronx a lot in the 1970s and 1980s that is saying a lot. Moving Africans Rapidly Through Atlanta is the bigoted name the white baptists call the MARTA train, time before that I went to Olympics, and I just missed getting blown up when it was bombed.

    It you are lilly white, live in gated community in buckhead and drive your lexus to work everyday to your assigned spot it is nice. But at Olympics as we were circling streets looking for parking, a few blocks from the downtown areas resemble the South Bronx in 1978

    Outofstater says:
    February 20, 2013 at 9:27 am

    #9 Nicely sums up nearly every regional bias against the South I have ever heard. The author of that piece forgot to mention that Southerners are all stupid, fat, in-bred, toothless, Bible thumping, Nascar-loving trailer trash who drink moonshine out of Mason jars. Oh well, that’s okay. The Southern Baptists will still load up their trucks and head to NY and NJ to feed the people after a disaster. I’m sure we’ll have tornadoes down here this spring. Maybe some of “y’all” can come down and return the favor.

  22. joyce says:

    JJ making wild incorrect generalizations… who’d have thunk it?

    JJ says:
    February 20, 2013 at 9:33 am
    Not a soul from down South came up here to help. They hate us.

  23. JJ says:

    I saw the Mormans, Samaritans Purse, Red Cross, National Guard, DEC, Navy Pumpers, TOH sanitiation and Fema. I was pretty much ground zero of flood. Heck they threw a massive rally covered by CNN, channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 12 around 400 feet from my front door.

    I did not see any Baptists. I do know the Baptists Churchs did help “other christians”, But Mormans called up Cuomo/Fema got a list of folks with no flood insurance and their annual income, and went to all these houses. The original owner elderly jewish widow with no flood got her house massively destroyed near me. The Mormans gutted it for free. Samaritans Purse who has volunteer electricians, plumbers, sheetrockers gave free labor. Between FEMA and NYS Sandy she got a $41,900 grant which all went to materials. They are wrapping up that house now. She lived their whole time upstairs, I think she got real heat only in January.

    Of course this stuff dont make the news. Only folks who are dual income earners whining the bank is not releasing their flood payments quick enough.

    I am by far the stupidest and luckiest person with Sandy. House to left, right, behind me sustained incredible damage, that widow’s house I described is only 100 feet from me. Thank God, the Lord must love me. He parted the sea twice. although this time it was a double win as two neighbors on top of me took bulk of wave. Actually, corner houses are a nightmare. Prior owner of house to left only got one foot in Irene last year. However, being a corner house on a snow emergency street, every passing ambulence, firetruck, fema vehicle flying down block kept creating waves that really damaged house. The water line was much higher. The two corner houses had same crap again in Sandy. Imagine a 70×100 corner house, 170 feet of frontage, three feet deep water in street and hummers and firetrucks flying through water at 30 miles an hour down your block. Wow crazy.

    Southern Baptists are a bit like Orthodox jews in a way they do a lot of charity but mainly for each other. A pie sale to help church, etc.

    joyce says:
    February 20, 2013 at 9:52 am

    JJ making wild incorrect generalizations… who’d have thunk it?

    JJ says:
    February 20, 2013 at 9:33 am
    Not a soul from down South came up here to help. They hate us.

  24. Anon E. Moose says:

    Joyce [24];

    Based on the example in [9], he should get a job writing for Salon!

  25. JJ says:

    Joyce are you still waiting for the waiter to take your order?

    joyce says:
    February 20, 2013 at 9:52 am

    JJ making wild incorrect generalizations… who’d have thunk it?

    JJ says:
    February 20, 2013 at 9:33 am
    Not a soul from down South came up here to help. They hate us.

  26. Ragnar says:

    #9, Looks like that author finally found an outlet for his ivy league degree in English.
    Preach welfare statism using race and class warfare as the organizing themes. Pathetic that he presumes Alex Hamilton would be on board with the way that the Northeastern government/union axis conspires to extract rents and bankrupt the states.

  27. Ragnar says:

    JJ, the Baptists weren’t allowed up north, they weren’t union labor, and would have been taking away the overtime of union men. There’s a limit to how far it makes sense to drive a bucket truck anyway. How many New Yorkers drove to New Orleans for hurricane cleanup?

  28. Essex says:

    I am sure that there are better places to live than the “south” if you are a career minded professional in specialties like finance and pharma. They “do” pay in sunshine down there. There are some back office operations that do pretty well and these are sometimes inhabited by displaced northerners on a tourist visa south.

    All in all I like life in the northeast if, and I have said this before, you can make money here. Money being anything over $200k as a household income. I know people in FL who would starve on twice that, but for my purposes, $200k is the minimum that it takes to live decently in this area.

    The South has biased people sure, but I think the identity of southern red neck is overstated most times. You are just as likely to meet a roughneck in a bar in Philly than in Atlanta. Either way, if you judge areas by the reputation they have no one would ever move to Jersey.

  29. JJ says:

    The Southerns are not allowed to do paid work in Nassau County. That limited the southern carpet baggers from coming up north.

    The Mormans chartered a bus from Utah. Full of 20-23 year old men with strong backs. Basic Hand tools, mops, masks, bleach, rags, buckets etc is all that is needed.
    They hop out and do a whole house demo in a matter of hours. Down South it takes then ten minutes to put get my order ready at Burger King.

    Maple syrup in the Arctic Circle moves quicker than a Southern Handiman.

    Ragnar says:
    February 20, 2013 at 10:13 am

    JJ, the Baptists weren’t allowed up north, they weren’t union labor, and would have been taking away the overtime of union men. There’s a limit to how far it makes sense to drive a bucket truck anyway. How many New Yorkers drove to New Orleans for hurricane cleanup?

  30. Carlito says:

    How can you tell a baptist from a mormom from a jew from a…?

  31. joyce says:

    Salon, The Onion, or any fiction will do

    Anon E. Moose says:
    February 20, 2013 at 10:08 am
    Joyce [24];

    Based on the example in [9], he should get a job writing for Salon!

  32. joyce says:

    The author also could have mentioned the fact that Hamilton strongly advocated for a Monarchy form of govt. during the constitutional convention. Maybe they don’t teach that anymore.

    Ragnar says:
    February 20, 2013 at 10:10 am
    #9, Looks like that author finally found an outlet for his ivy league degree in English.
    Preach welfare statism using race and class warfare as the organizing themes. Pathetic that he presumes Alex Hamilton would be on board with the way that the Northeastern government/union axis conspires to extract rents and bankrupt the states.

  33. grim says:

    Mike – Interesting, is this the start of a shift away from multifamily back into single?

    From Bloomberg:

    U.S. Single-Family Home Starts Rise to Four-Year High

    Builders broke ground in January on the most U.S. single-family homes in more than four years and permits for future construction rose, an indication the industry’s momentum carried over into 2013.

  34. joyce says:

    Do not question Superman’s powers of observation!

    Carlito says:
    February 20, 2013 at 10:23 am
    How can you tell a baptist from a mormom from a jew from a…?

  35. JJ says:

    Few tests.

    do they have a place to hide gum in a sandstorm?
    Yell free ham and look for the one that is conflicted?
    Yell I hate Mitt Romney and love Coca Cola and see who punches you
    Yell free fried chicken and pie and see who gets there quickest

    Carlito says:
    February 20, 2013 at 10:23 am

    How can you tell a baptist from a mormom from a jew from a…?

  36. 1987 Condo Buyer says:

    #Assorted, my brother and the FDNY has returned favors to South Carolina and New Orleans (fire trucks. personnel) for their help after 9/11. He is now assisting as a volunteer relief coordinator for Sandy relief efforts on S.I. I bet there are “southern” groups helping out….

  37. joyce says:

    Carlito,
    To answer your question, he can’t. He can only spout uncreative non-funny ‘jokes’.

    JJ says:
    February 20, 2013 at 10:27 am
    Few tests.

    do they have a place to hide gum in a sandstorm?
    Yell free ham and look for the one that is conflicted?
    Yell I hate Mitt Romney and love Coca Cola and see who punches you
    Yell free fried chicken and pie and see who gets there quickest

    Carlito says:
    February 20, 2013 at 10:23 am

    How can you tell a baptist from a mormom from a jew from a…?

  38. JJ says:

    Lots of expense in sending a truck down south? . who paid for that? I mean the firefighters dont pay for gas is it NYC or FEMA, just curious.

    1987 Condo Buyer says:
    February 20, 2013 at 10:30 am

    #Assorted, my brother and the FDNY has returned favors to South Carolina and New Orleans (fire trucks. personnel) for their help after 9/11. He is now assisting as a volunteer relief coordinator for Sandy relief efforts on S.I. I bet there are “southern” groups helping out….

  39. JJ says:

    How can you tell a baptist from a mormom from a jew from a…?

    One gives 10% of his income to the church the other likes knishes

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  41. 1987 Condo Buyer says:

    #40. lots of expense in sending trucks up from New Orleans and South Carolina as well! I think 9/11 was city to city type exchanges.

  42. JJ says:

    Ok here is a Firefighter question.

    Chicks dig Firefighters and like if you go to bar the women all want you. Also people think being a NYC Firefighter is a really big deal.

    Ok, my question is why? I mean back when I was young and in good shape and had a really junky job on wall street after crash I signed up for firefighter test. Couple of my staff was doing it, one his brother was a Lt. So I jogged exercised a few weeks, took the review class, studied for test (stuff like do you take firetruck ever down a one way street even if shortest route, standpipe questions etc.) So I do really good. 100% written and the physical part only part I nearly flunked was carrying heavy dummy up three story ladder and part where you go through tunnel for speed, guy before me tank hit and that second caused him to lose 5 points. Anyhow, for my few weeks work I get a great score. At same time I signed up to be a Suffolk State Trooper. That test is IQ based, no studying, no physical. So I take the tests, get on list. Time goes by I get called for both jobs, by then I cant afford to do it as starting salary was a pay cut and by then I was nearly done with MBA.

    Meanwhile I see folks who are Suffolk State Troopers and NYC firefighters being treated like kings. I was at Dentist a few weeks ago and assistant was telling me her husband is a NYC cop and she took test and cant wait to be called, talking about great pay etc. I casually mention I passed Suffolk State Trooper Test and even got called to be a trooper when I was 27. She was like OMG, I can’t believe it that is amazing, I could only dream of that job. I thought she was going to jump my bone or kiss my ring. Then I tell her a week before the recruitment class I told them no. She was like are you crazy, on and on. Meanwhile if I started at 27 I could have retired technically at 47, how I like to know half salary of 140K is only 70k. I have to stay at least to 30 years to get 3/4 salary for life. But even then how could I retire at 58 at 3/4 salary.

    I guess to someone who is has a HS or Community College degree a 140K Cop job is the dream of a lifetime. But really, I did not even study for that test, just showed up paid a fee and got called. It only required a Community College degree. The firefighter test was a lot harder.

    I know the pension is great, but firefighter and cops give up like one million in income over career to get that pension. So really at best a wash.

    But why do chicks dig it so much? I mean most firefighters wifes I know have to work, or their husbands have to work second jobs to make it work. Cant they just be a bond trader at 450K a year and do it on side as a volunteer if the like it so much.

  43. JJ says:

    My Moms friend son is jokingly referred to the unsung hero of 9/11. The first tower already fell, they were headed downtown through queens and brooklyn to the second tower still standing. When all at once they spot a car fire, he demands the firetruck stop and put out car fire with the other guys all shouting at him no, well anyhow they put out the fire and get back in truck and are a few blocks from WTC when second tower collapses. Everyone called him the chicken hero. He actually saved everyone on trucks life and by arriving a few minutes after second tower fell they had a fully equipped operable fire truck full of healthy men ready to assist.

    1987 Condo Buyer says:
    February 20, 2013 at 10:55 am

    #40. lots of expense in sending trucks up from New Orleans and South Carolina as well! I think 9/11 was city to city type exchanges.

  44. yome says:

    one reason I decided to retire there is I can hire live in help with in my $3400 a month budget

    anon says:
    February 20, 2013 at 9:10 am
    9. yep. That’s why we all smart folk live in the north. people here would rather move out of the USA (chile, Costa Rica or to a Far East island in the case of yome) than live in the south

  45. nwnj says:

    #44

    You’re slipping. When you used to completely make stuff up, at least it was interesting.

  46. yome says:

    gold below 1600 floor at 1583. 800 in the rear view?

  47. 1987 Condo Buyer says:

    #44, lol, well, my brothers pensions, based on current rates, are probably worth between $3 million and $5 million dollars, maybe more….I will be “down South” when that bill comes in…….

  48. BTFD, yome.

    Although I guess you’re buying ES as fast as you can.

  49. Hi-ho under $29 would be another BTFD situation.

    Disclaimer: my views on finance are somewhat akin to the Unabomber.

  50. 1987 Condo Buyer says:

    #44….I honestly did not know , when I was 18-22, that Bond Dealers or other such jobs paid $450,000….or taht Insurance brokers made the money they did…I will teach my son differently…..

  51. Brian says:

    Hey you may be on to something. Guy doesn’t have to work, gets 3 hot meals a day and has free health care.

    51.Scrapple Cannon says:
    February 20, 2013 at 11:52 am
    Hi-ho under $29 would be another BTFD situation.

    Disclaimer: my views on finance are somewhat akin to the Unabomber.

  52. raging bull jj says:

    Even more amazing the firefighters in my town do it for free.

    The biggest scam of all is NYC Sanitation. Much better than cops or firemen. My friend who is pretty much lazy, wanted to retire young, never wanted to go to college and likes lots of money. He became a street sweeper at 16 so he could be a sanitation guy at 18. Lucky SOB retired in 2002 at 38, 1.2 of last salary of 140k (9/11 OT), he got married to his 28 year old GF and retired to Florida. Crazy part is wife inherits pension so NYC is paying free medical for life and a 70K pension, since the wife ie 28 she could easily live another 60-70 years, that is insane.
    Firefighting is a bit less of a scam now. Years ago I briefly dated a girl who was a secretary in the fired dept. Her dad was a big shot. She too got the 20 year pension, She was only like 27 but already doing it 9 years and told me she is looking forward to retiring at 38 and raising her kids.

    I am thinking, wow I could ride an easy gravy train. A wife who brings in income without working. Then the night of the third date it all came crashing down, we go back to her place I get her on the bed and she had lopeided sided boobs. She acutally had a pad on one side and none on the other.

    Free medical for life is not worth a lifetime of lopsided boobs.

    1987 Condo Buyer says:
    February 20, 2013 at 11:47 am
    #44, lol, well, my brothers pensions, based on current rates, are probably worth between $3 million and $5 million dollars, maybe more….I will be “down South” when that bill comes in…….

  53. joyce says:

    47

    nwnj

    I can’t wait to hear the ‘almost became a doctor/nuclear physicist/etc’ stories.

  54. raging bull jj says:

    Actually, since I never studied in HS or College for that matter anything involving high GPAs, hard courses and years of studying I never considered.

    Sales, Civil Service or Wall Street/Banking are where folks go to make money with local schools and average GPAs.

    Personally, I would have liked to be a doctor 30 years ago. Today it is all Asians, Indians, Pakis who do it and it is all medicare/insurance nonsense and tons of work.
    Medical school is pretty much for smart socially akward quriky people to go to make a lot of money. Think Akanak Shan Hassen with a big turban. In america he is qualified to work at a newstand or as a Doctor.

    A polite, pretty, 5 foot six, blonde blue eyed catholic girl from the right neighbor hood, with right parents and school with a good name has no need to be a doctor.

    Years ago I recall. I got assigned a really nice extremely pretty girl, business suit, sweet as can be, blue eyed, wow. Type of girl folks chase down and give the number to as my junior staffer. Well I send her first day up to the trading desk to do the “walk through” She actually, asked the trader what a “DK” stood for. She even my favorite dumb question off all time asked “why the vault has a doorbell”.

    Anyhow the client keeps asking for her back at $200 an hour to keep asking the dumb questions, one trader said I would pay her $200 dollar an hour for a year if you want.

    Anyhow her billable hours were great, she got a promotion or two and by 27 she got engaged to a trader and moved to a rich surburb and joined the country club set.

    At our CPA cram school we even got the girl to squeek past all four parts. OMG she ws a keeper.

    Why or why would a girl like that want to suffer through pre-med and med. She was not the sharpest tool, Medical school today is for folks who cant make it in the real world. The days of the Marcus Welby type good looking six foot two inch white doctors are all long gone. They realize they dont need that anymore.

    joyce says:
    February 20, 2013 at 12:22 pm
    47

    nwnj

    I can’t wait to hear the ‘almost became a doctor/nuclear physicist/etc’ stories.

  55. Outofstater says:

    JJ – just so you know – the Southern Baptists prepare all of the food that is distributed by the Red Cross. And my Atlanta friend who spent Christmas Day and the following two weeks driving a truck distributing relief supplies in Brooklyn and Staten Island would take exception to your comment that “not a soul from down south came up here to help us.” I was there for two weeks and gave up Thanksgiving with my husband and children to do it. Oh and except for police, fire and power crews, we were all volunteers. None of us got paid a dime. When you are hit by a disaster and people come from all over the country to help, maybe you should think before you post. Still love ya though.

  56. Comrade Scungilli DePlume says:

    [9] lurker,

    I know people, some of whom I consider reasonably intelligent, who consider salon to be credible analysis or, even more astounding, news.

    If they weren’t friends of mine, I would almost feel compelled to take advantage of them.

  57. raging bull jj says:

    The closest weird job I ever almost was offered was on General Hospital. The casting director met me through a friend of a friend, she wanted me to play a minor role as “Blackies Parish’s” friend. You know John Stamos role. I even got the cafeteria scene I was to read for.

    So being a poor irish kid mom my mom never got braces for me. Anyhow I am told I am perfect but I need to get my teeth fixed and whitened. I look into it and it was like 4k and the part paid peanuts. Could not swing it at the time, plus no time for braces, it would be paying for stupid venars which ment grinding teeth. Oh well. My teeth are all straight now, but at my age noone wants me to be a hottie.

    joyce says:
    February 20, 2013 at 12:22 pm
    47

    nwnj

    I can’t wait to hear the ‘almost became a doctor/nuclear physicist/etc’ stories.

  58. Painhrtz - The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch says:

    Chi fi WTF, I don’t know whether to be disgusted or intrigued.

  59. raging bull jj says:

    I only got hot dogs and beans, bottled watter, a few donuts and some good hot coffee from Red Cross and MREs from FEMA.

    I appreciate the work, but honestly food was least of my problem. I actually found it a bit annoying. I was knee deep in muck, mold, no cars, no power tools, no heat and the red cross parked a truck around 200 feet from my house for a week, with a bull horn they kept going on about the food.

    Meanwhile I had three fridges full of food, even one under four feet of water sealed held up. My BBQ still worked and all the food was slowly defrosting.

    I even had some nice ladies in a Mercedes give me free coffee from out of state. It was nice they were trying to help.

    But really I needed a generator, gas, car, sumppump, power tools, garbage pick up even babysitting for my youngest.

    Honestly FEMA was only one who really helped me by giving me 31,900 pretty quick, no strings. It was spent in like three week.

    Also the FEMA folks, insurance adjusters, volunteers from out of state compounded my problem. By week two of no power, no heat, no hotwater, and mold growing like crazy I spent hours on the phone trying to book a place. The five nearest my house were all booked by out of state folks “helping out” I was kinda pissed. I spent a week freezing in a half distroyed house as the “relief” workers booked all the room. I know they are trying to help, but very weird.

    Outofstater says:
    February 20, 2013 at 12:52 pm
    JJ – just so you know – the Southern Baptists prepare all of the food that is distributed by the Red Cross. And my Atlanta friend who spent Christmas Day and the following two weeks driving a truck distributing relief supplies in Brooklyn and Staten Island would take exception to your comment that “not a soul from down south came up here to help us.” I was there for two weeks and gave up Thanksgiving with my husband and children to do it. Oh and except for police, fire and power crews, we were all volunteers. None of us got paid a dime. When you are hit by a disaster and people come from all over the country to help, maybe you should think before you post. Still love ya though.

  60. zieba says:

    slow day in the life of a BSD, eh JJ? Grim should charge you by the character.

  61. Outofstater says:

    #62 I don’t know about all the volunteers but the Red Cross people I know who were in your area were sleeping on cots in a shelter. You really were at ground zero and we were all worried about your safety when you didn’t post for a long time. One funny side note – I was working with people from all over the country and more than one of them said, “Wow, these New Yorkers are, well, NICE! I didn’t expect that!” All they knew of the northeast was what they saw on television. I think they expected everyone to be like Tony Soprano. So, little by little, the regional biases that are everywhere, start to crumble.

  62. Comrade Nom Deplume. Apparently. says:

    ChiFi

    I have to be in Lincroft at Collins Arena on Sun. morning. Coffee in Red Bank?

  63. Comrade Nom Deplume. Apparently. says:

    Or anyone else near Red Bank on Sunday morning. Pain, you nearby???

  64. raging bull jj says:

    I stayed on night at the Melville Marriott, got a Saturday night. Fema and insurance adjustors had all the rooms. I did not see any red cross.

    I would like to work with FEMA when I get old, those guys were nice and helpful. Fema gave me cash, work gloves, cleaning supplies, and eventually although I paid out of pocket I got into a hotel at the FEMA rate for two weeks.

    oddly not a single volunteer offered or would help me. FEMA had a list of folks with no flood insurance and also your income. Folks down south dont understand NY incomes. By me a 200K income is scrapping by, folks down south a 200K income seems like a lot. I got blocked out of one program as you needed no flood insurance and earn less than 90K, I got blocked out of the casualty write off as it has to be greater than 10% of your AGI.

    I would stay the charities really target near me the poor, widows and orphans with no flood insurance or basically the poor and/or elderly.

    Trouble is there is no “pay it forward” I watched the Mormans do the elderly couple;s house down the bock and samitians purse do the house of the old widow across street.

    I am pretty healthy, know how to do repairs and have money. I really wish I got some that was of use. My favorite is the truck full of fozen turkeys that came to my town from out of state while the power was still off. Other favorite is out of blue I get a big bag of toys, cross word puzzels board games. To replace lost toy. Also got a $500 voucher salvation army. Not that I would ever use it.

    Anyhow when I get a chance I will put before and after on photobucket. I have the pictures.

    Anyhow a special thanks to Macy’s 10% extra off for Sandy Victims, GM for a discount on new car, Fema, NYS Sandy, Red Cross hot cofee, Mother in law for free car for one month, Friend of a Friend of a Friend who lent me generator and sump pump, DEC for pumping out old oil, heating company for free financing on new oil burner, nemerous folks at Home Depot and Lowes and Serve Pro guy who helped me figure out mold abate house on my own. SBA for approving a 60K loan.

    Outofstater, plenty of people helped me. Best of all grants are tax free.

    Outofstater says:
    February 20, 2013 at 1:39 pm
    #62 I don’t know about all the volunteers but the Red Cross people I know who were in your area were sleeping on cots in a shelter. You really were at ground zero and we were all worried about your safety when you didn’t post for a long time. One funny side note – I was working with people from all over the country and more than one of them said, “Wow, these New Yorkers are, well, NICE! I didn’t expect that!” All they knew of the northeast was what they saw on television. I think they expected everyone to be like Tony Soprano. So, little by little, the regional biases that are everywhere, start to crumble.

  65. Comrade Nom Deplume. Apparently. says:

    [50] scrapple,

    I BTFD, at least a little. I hope to hell this isn’t the falling knife.

  66. Jill says:

    #57: You mean the ham and cheese sandwiches that the Red cross delivered to Jewish neighborhoods (http://www.jvhri.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3720:months-after-the-disaster-hurricane-sandy-victims-still-stranded&catid=41:community&Itemid=62) and trash bags containing broken hamburgers (http://gothamist.com/2012/12/05/red_cross_drops_off_trashbag_of_ham.php) the Red Cross distributed? You may not know this, but Occupy is out there with portable stoves cooking chicken, vegetables and rice every day.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/11/04/occupy_sandy_hurricane_relief_being_led_by_occupy_wall_street.html

    http://eatocracy.cnn.com/2012/11/12/sandy-volunteers/

  67. Jill says:

    Grim: Please un-mod #69…it has a lot of links in it but it is not spam. Thanks.

  68. Painhrtz - The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch says:

    Nom sorry wife is taking professional development classes on Sunday I’m home with kids all day. not allowed to leave the house wife has them on lock down so they are not sick for their first birthday

  69. Painhrtz - The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch says:

    and it is about an hour drive depending on traffic

  70. JJ says:

    Death Cross for Gold

  71. nwnj says:

    Edison, this must be a misprint?

    Report: Driver fired a shot at pedestrian in Edison
    http://www.nj.com/middlesex/index.ssf/2013/02/report_driver_fired_a_shot_at.html#incart_m-rpt-1

  72. plume (68)-

    Just remember what is and isn’t money.

    You can’t print gold and silver.

    BTFD.

  73. jj (72)-

    BTFD. Things always seem brightest for fiat paper just before the rug is pulled out from under it.

    Can’t print gold.

  74. yome says:

    73
    This place is starting to be called Camden North.All I have to say now is, I am from Edison and they start taking off their belongings. You looking for some slightly used chrome wheels? Give us 2 days.It can be arrange.

  75. Painhrtz - The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch says:

    Nom the last time I was at Collins Arena was the last time I was on a date with someone other than my wife. Saw Live there in 2003 just blew out my knee in a hockey tournament, and ran into my an ex who told me when I broke up with her not to date the girl I was with. good times. sorry JJ no hoods got dented in this story.

  76. Carlito says:

    #75 can’t print gold but can dig it for far less than $1600/oz..

  77. yome says:

    Not to mention 30% premium and 30% less than trade price to sell

  78. Young Buck says:

    73. nwnj – What is your hard-on with Yome being happy in Edison? Get over it already.

  79. Anon E. Moose says:

    Yep, RE bubble over. WSJ talking about high-tech kitchen islands.

    http://on.wsj.com/ZgHeTi

  80. Anon E. Moose says:

    Con’t [81];

    Plus a glimpse of how the high land survivors in Long Beach get by.

  81. hi!,I really like your writing so a lot! share we keep in touch more about your article on AOL? I require a specialist in this house to resolve my problem. May be that’s you! Taking a look forward to peer you.

  82. JJ says:

    I read that, I totally crack up about middle class long beach folks they are a pretty rich bunch. I saw in the news my old GF bro, he is a LB Firefighter, pays like 90K a year, full time contractor and wife is a stockbroker. He is all like boooyaa for the middle class bungalow owners. Guy has a lumpy bed cause it is full of c-notes

    Anon E. Moose says:
    February 20, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    Con’t [81];

    Plus a glimpse of how the high land survivors in Long Beach get by.

  83. xolepa says:

    (81) Kitchen islands as make shift bars! Now, that’s gaudy. Bars are made from wood and carry a pub theme. The only think close to my center island being a bar is that’s where I usually open a bottle of wine when having dinner, or throw the cork on after I open it.

  84. The biggest tell that gold is a BTFD situation is that yome is dissing it.

  85. JJ says:

    Buy The Fcking Dip. GLD is POS

  86. I think yome spends a lot of time strapped to his kitchen island. Face down.

  87. I see turkey basters.

  88. grim says:

    I hang my head low in shame, I’m in the crazy island category:

    12 foot long by 4 foot wide island
    Seating for 6
    Built-in 15″ Thermador single “Burner” induction cooktop (separate from gas-fired cooktop opposite island) – This monster can bring a pot of water to a boil in 90 seconds.
    Built-in Fridge/Beverage Center
    Pull-out/pop-up shelving for the Cuisinart
    Cabinet-front Bosch dishwasher
    Big ass sink

    http://njrereport.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/kitchen.jpg

  89. grim says:

    We also have the “mixer elevator” in the cabinetry opposite the island.

    We cook the shit outta this kitchen.

  90. Essex says:

    That’s the thing jj. Tough to leave the money behind here for little towns and such.

  91. yome says:

    I only looked into gold coins during the downturn in 2008. When the dealer told me there is a 30% premium, I never got interested again. Only gold I have is my 24 k jewelry. They said they put something on it to make it harder.24k gold is soft

  92. yome says:

    Grim, you built a beautiful home. Nice place for little grim to grow

  93. grim says:

    Kitchen was designed to seat 6 -8 guests at the island while the cook or cooks prepped dinner on the other side, kind of like the cooking channel style setups. It’s wide enough so that prep doesn’t encroach on plate.

    I have the cameras ready to mount up under the hood so we can ‘broadcast’ the cooktop action to the flatscreen on the opposite side of the room.

    Yes, I am sick, but we take dinner parties seriously.

    Only fault is that I typically stand all night.

  94. Anon E. Moose says:

    G [95];

    You da man.

  95. Sh1tting skittles says:

    Scrapple,

    Gold is a fiat commodity. It has no real purpose outside of its perceived worth.

    Judging from the way you are desperately pumping shiny, you must own a large position.

    It makes a good hedge, but its a terrible retirement plan.

  96. Happy Renter says:

    [98] “Gold is a fiat commodity. It has no real purpose outside of its perceived worth . . . It makes a good hedge, but its a terrible retirement plan.”

    You’re probably right, in pure investment terms.

    But fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

    I have come to accept that the “reward” for having a successful retirement investment plan is that when I retire, the government will look at the balance in my 401(k), IRAs, and taxable investments and say: “Congratulations! You’ve worked hard and saved hard all your life, and by doing so you have paid for your own retirement. No social security or medicare for you. Well done!”

    Meanwhile, Mr. and Mrs. Spendthrift next door (who earned roughly the same as me but didn’t save for retirement and enjoyed spending all their money on clothes, fancy cars, expensive vacations, pointless home renovations, flat screen TVs in every room, and every piece of i-crap that hits the market) will collect bennies from Uncle Sam equal to what my retirement stash yields.

    No way. F!-k you, pay me.

    My money? I blew it all on shiny and then misplaced it; you know, memory being the first thing to go and all.

    (Yeah, and my kiddos are now officially Latino and loving it. Let the bennies roll, amigos.)

  97. Sh1tting skittles says:

    Sound sort of like the old saying “they’re not making any more land”.

    People on this blog sure know that it can decrease in value.

  98. Ernest Money says:

    skittlepoop (101)-

    And we all know little green pieces of paper are backed by the full faith and credit of our benevolent overlords.

  99. Ernest Money says:

    Methinks skittlepoop skipped history class on Weimar day.

  100. Ernest Money says:

    skittlepoop prolly likes those dividend-paying stocks, too.

    It all works. Until it doesn’t.

  101. Ernest Money says:

    Where is the “donate” button to buy skittlepoop a Dow 14,000 cap?

    Or, should we get him a EUR/USD 1.40 version?

  102. Happy Renter says:

    [103] He might have slept through the lecture on Wiemar Germany, but surely he can’t have missed the entire housing bubble aftermath we’ve just been through. Let’s do the re-cap:

    Idiots who flushed all their money (er, actually, not even their money) down the toilet to buy a grossly overpriced crapshack, to spare Graydon and Ellery the indignity of living anywhere but in a home they “own” in Brigadoon . . . they get rent free, mortgage-free living, principle write-downs, and countless mention by the chimp in chief as the poor, struggling homeowners we need to “save”.

    Prudent folks who saw the glaringly obvious housing bubble nonsense, refused to overspend to buy a POS crapshack, and sat on the sidelines for the past 8 years . . . they get tax increases to pay for “folks who just need a little money in their pockets,” you know, to get the economy going.

    Spendthrifts: 1
    Suckers: 0

    Why anyone thinks it will be any different when it comes to the retirement crisis we’re barreling toward is beyond me.

    Done with that. F!-k you, pay me.

  103. yome says:

    Dont you get paid with that little green paper not backed by anything when you sell that precious backed by all good things gold?

  104. Happy Renter says:

    P.S. Kids, according to The Google, that’s “Vete a la mierda, me pagan”

  105. #107 rises to the top of the Pantheon of Dumb Things Uttered by yome.

  106. yome says:

    Clot, I hope gold goes up to how much you want it. But the fundamentals are disapearing.
    http://www.nasdaq.com/article/gold-why-the-carnage-gold-miners-what-happened-cm219400

  107. BearsFan says:

    yome – (as you know) last time dow hit 14K was in 2007, gold was $660 an ounce, silver $13, and the list of “real” things whose “price” has gone up is endless. So if u liquidate your “14K Dow” equity position today, it would by less than half of what it did in 2007.

    now that never ending QE has begun, and is here forever, and the gold/silver paper market is actively manipulated to keep price down less you “wake up” to said fact in paragraph 1 above, you should be thankful that Scrapple even bothers to try and help u see the light, no?

    Edison is a big town, and there are still nice parts of it. For now.

  108. yome says:

    Bearsfan,
    Like I said I hope gold goes up to what you guys want. Anticipation of inflation due to QE is starting to be questioned by investors. Inflation is the driving force of the rise in price of gold. Mining gold is not profitable if price keeps going down. Good luck to all gold bugs

  109. sh1tting skittles says:

    Cheap motor fuels should help keep the cost of consumables down and help keep the masses in check.

    http://www.pwc.com/en_GX/gx/oil-gas-energy/publications/pdfs/pwc-shale-oil.pdf

  110. BearsFan says:

    thanks, but I don’t own any gold. I believe the fundos on Hi Ho are much better.

    “Mining gold is not profitable if price keeps going down.” – isn’t it great, like a built in floatation device :)

  111. yome (112)-

    Sheep, the rise in the price of gold is not due to anticipation of inflation. It is due to the failure of fiat paper and the complete loss of confidence in central banks and the fiscal policies of failed countries.

  112. scribe says:

    I saw news coverage of a crew from New Orleans that was serving hot food in Staten Island right after Sandy. They mentioned that volunteers from NY had been in NO during Katrina, and they wanted to return the favor.

    Grim, you have the most beautiful kitchen I’ve ever seen.

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