From Reuters:
In New Jersey, spared by Sandy but paying the price in taxes
Philip Checchia’s home in Barnegat, New Jersey, escaped undamaged from Hurricane Sandy in October, but the 67-year-old is bracing for a different kind of storm damage – higher property taxes.
New Jersey home owners already pay the highest taxes in the country, with the revenues going to fund schools, police, firefighters, roads, and building projects. When the value of taxable property drops in one area, the burden often shifts to others to make up the difference.
At the epicenter of the problem is Ocean County, where Checchia lives, and where miles of long, fragile barrier islands bore the brunt of the storm’s beating. The storm carved $7 billion out of the total value of the county’s taxable property.
“You and I are going to pick up for people that chose to buy houses on the water,” Checchia said, sitting on the couch in the small two-story home he shares with his wife and grandson in a tidy, tightly packed middle-class neighborhood. His annual tax bill is already about $4,700 on a house valued at about $170,000 – roughly half what it was worth before the housing market collapsed, he said.
Ocean County saw its tax base – the combined value of all real estate subject to property taxes – dwindle to about $90 billion from $100 billion in 2012, said John C. Bartlett, a local elected official who heads the county finance department.
About $7 billion of that is due to Sandy damage, with the remaining $3 billion stemming from ongoing reassessments after the housing market declined, Bartlett said.
Expensive waterfront houses, some of them vacation homes for retirees, generated a large amount of the revenue that funds local schools and towns. “Thirty percent of our tax base was along the coast,” Bartlett said.
…
New Jersey collected $2,819 of state and local property taxes per capita in 2010, the highest rate of any U.S. state, according to the Tax Foundation, a conservative Washington think tank.Tax bills that take the new home values into account won’t be sent out until August. Many local communities and school districts – which stand to lose significant revenues because of the property damage – haven’t yet set their budgets.
It could be years before the full financial impact plays out. Many towns still aren’t certain how much they could get from federal recovery reimbursements and loans, and homeowners who feel their properties were overvalued after Sandy can appeal.
“The byzantine nature of our property tax system in New Jersey makes it really hard to calculate what the effect is going to be and how soon it will be felt,” said Kenneth Pringle, managing partner of the law firm Pringle Quinn Anzano. Pringle served for 20 years as mayor of the Jersey shore town Belmar, in Monmouth County, until 2010.
…
But even Republican Governor Chris Christie, who tried last year to cut the state’s income tax rate by 10 percent, has conceded that higher taxes might be inevitable after Sandy.Christie campaigned on a pledge to limit property taxes, and the state legislature passed a 2 percent cap on annual property tax increases in 2010. In November, Christie warned that, by law, towns could exceed the cap if there is a natural disaster.
For residents like Checchia, the question is: How much?
first
From CNBC:
How to Buy Your Dream House When It’s Not for Sale
As the housing market heats up, eager buyers are refusing to wait until the for-sale signs appear.
Instead, they are knocking on the doors of attractive properties, leaving letters in strangers’ mailboxes, scanning foreclosure listings and surfing the Web for prospects.
The direct approach worked for contractor Jerry Spring, 56, and his wife Kathryn, 62, who found themselves drawn to a house on a large corner lot in Richmond, Virginia, three years ago. But the house was not on the market.
The Springs used online county databases to find the owner, tracked her to an assisted living facility and then sent her an eight-page handwritten letter asking to buy her house and selling themselves as the best new owners.
The owner was not ready to sell, but the couple arranged a rent-to-own deal and moved in. They finally completed the purchase of the home in January with the executors of the owner’s estate after her death.
Welcome to the world of house stalking.
“A lot of buyers want to get into this market, but the inventory is just not there,” says Christine Parente, a broker and owner of Re/Max Trading Places in Hasbrouck Heights, New Jersey.
…
Once they find that dream house, some hopeful buyers reach out in writing. Note: It is illegal to put something in someone else’s mailbox, so if you do not want to run afoul of the law, you can send a letter through the U.S. Postal Service, addressed to “resident,” or stick your note in the door.
Compliment the owner by saying how much you love the house, or sell yourself with personal details such as your gardening abilities or your childhood memories of the neighborhood.
Barb Camp, a retired realtor in Portland, Oregon, suggests offering inducements, such as allowing the prospective seller to remain for a period of time at a low rent.
Camp encouraged her son and daughter-in-law to send a letter to the owners of a southeast Portland house they admire. The owners have promised to keep their number handy and now wave at the would-be buyers as they jog past their dream home.
“They may end up with the house,” Camp says, “if they are patient enough.”
Good Morning New Jersey
for Regressives, ideology is above country. they will not hire workers for political reasons. the 1000’s needed would drop the unemployment rate and that would not be good be good news for Regressives.
“The Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (WMT) executive who called the retailer’s February sales a “total disaster” in an internal e-mail obtained and reported by Bloomberg News has left the company.
Jerry Murray, a vice president of finance and logistics, left April 5 after working for the company for seven years, David Tovar, a Wal-Mart spokesman, said in an e-mail today. Murray’s departure was “his decision,” Tovar said in a telephone interview yesterday. The company hasn’t announced a replacement, he said.”
Taxes? Who cares about taxes? People are lining up to pay 17,000 a year. The stock market is unstoppable, the housing market is on fire..all is well.
I did the letter writing thing but you know what it is easier just to pick up the phone knock on the door, info on the web is only so useful. For instance I wanted Condo info on place I was putting bid on, so I looked up names/addresses/age which is all on line with phone numbers and started dialing for dollars. Second number I called guy spent 15 minutes with me going over building. Nice guy. I own him a fruit basket or something.
Even if house is listed with agent, it pays to talk to owner, listing may be expiring etc. Two bids I had that failed both times it was realtors fault. We were within 5% but fee was in the way. Both times if I knocked on door gave that same bid directly to owner, when listing expired I would have got house.
Agent I used this time. Was good. I got a rare sellers agent who fought for me. Plus guy likes fact a “nice” family will get it plus he was at capitulation stage and I had cash. Honestly to get his price, he needed to rent it this summer, after summer pray no storm, drop 5k into renovations, relist in Spring and hope a buyer shows up that pays him more than cost of keeping house empty all winter and make up for a full year of taxes and maint. Honestly, not worth it. Old guy can just take my cash, ladder up short term bonds, 1-5 year and roll them into 5-10 year bonds as they mature at higher yields and when he passes in a few years live his wife a nice income stream rather than an investment property in a flood zone to manage.
Old guy is full of BS in article. First of All last like 30 years folks by water overpaid taxes as their expensive waterfront houses, some of them vacation homes for retirees, and a lot of second homes with no kids in school district generated a large amount of the revenue that funds local schools and towns.
Now after he getting a free ride for 30 years he is afraid at 67 he may have to pay a bit more. Well where is the 30 years of tax savings. If Old Coot just put the 1K a year in tax savings he got each year into the S&P he would not be way ahead.
Also what the heck is he talking about. If a 500K bungalow is now worth 400K it gets reassessed at 20% less.
Hear that pleebs beg for the honor of being in debt. While I like people being proactive to get things they want I never got the whole letter writing thing. May as well write a suicide note.
(3) I stalked back in the 80’s. For income property, though. Almost worked once. No response second time. Stalking is free.
#2, A guy I worked for had a house in Vail, custom designed by an architect. Some guy drove up, rang his doorbell, and said, “I love your house, how much will you take for it?” He negotiated a sale at a big premium, then built a bigger house in Telluride (up in Mountain Village).
#10 That’s exactly what I was wondering while reading that story. If you go around banging on doors of nice houses stating you’ll buy the place when it’s for sale, they could mark up the house more than it’s worth. If they get multiple of these, then they could mark up the house a lot.
It sounds like going to a car dealership and saying you are in love with the car.
30-year mortgage rate falls to 3.43%
Guess Goal of Fed is to get home prices rebounding asap, even if they jack rates again by 2015 by then all the suckers who bought in last bubble will fall into three camps:
1)BK
2)short sale
3) refinance and now have equity (skin in game)
With stricter under writing standards from Summer 2008 till Summer 2013 that limits defaults on new homes.
Trouble is lending standards are loosing up, rates are superlow and home prices are heating up. We may have a new bubble starting now and we may see a crash of folks who bought in late 2013 and 2014 who overpaid.
I almost feel bad for anyone who could not walk away from their Spring 2003-Spring 2008 purchase
Sold our beach house to people who really wanted it. We told them we were thinking of putting our house on the market and they came running. We didn’t even have an asking price, instead we asked them what they were willing to pay. Every time they gave a number and I’d say to my husband I really love this house I don’t think I want to move. They ended up paying 25% over their first offer. Fun times.
What year was that?
NJCoast says:
April 11, 2013 at 10:54 am
Sold our beach house to people who really wanted it. We told them we were thinking of putting our house on the market and they came running. We didn’t even have an asking price, instead we asked them what they were willing to pay. Every time they gave a number and I’d say to my husband I really love this house I don’t think I want to move. They ended up paying 25% over their first offer. Fun times.
http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/story/2011/06/Falling-prices-bring-NJ-beach-houses-within-reach/48289990/1
It will all be in shambles soon. $1 of your own money spent on housing is $1 pissed away (unless you are an investor looking for rental income).
However, I think levering up 103% against an asset that will eventually be worthless is a great hedge against the Zimbabwean inflationary holocaust that is bound to hit.
Bitcoin, bitchez!
Only buy housing after you are stoked to the gills with Hormel chili, bullets and PMs.
Sometimes the buyer wins. Check around and see if any landlord/resident has problem tenants or bad neighbors. Sometimes, they go over the edge and they will unload the property cheaper (as opposed to cheap). My parents did that over twenty years ago and got snookered. It caused great consternation as my wife an I kept arguing with them. They were very stubborn and lost out. My mother still blames us in not warning them about their own stupidity.
But that is the person you want to sell to you. In some kind of personal distress. Best way to find out is to be ‘on the in’ within the neighborhood.
…and I made many an attempt at giving the old line ‘I love your house, blah blah blah’ in relation to rental units. If the owner wanted too much, just walked away. Never called back. The effort, again, doesn’t cost you. And there is much more to gain than lose.
GEORGE: It’s supposed to be a good party.
JERRY: What does that mean? Good dip?
GEORGE: No, there’ll be girls there.
JERRY: There’s girls everywhere.
I no longer want to win all the way. Last house I held the guy down step on his throat and spit in his mouth. I went a little too far.
In return he did not give me alarm code, let dog crap in middle of wall to wall carpet and left rotten food in fridge and cabinets.
Lawyer advised me not to try to charge him. He said it is just a sign you got a great deal and he had sellers remorse.
It was even worse as locked in Price in December 1999 and then rented from me. So his house was rising like 5k a month while he was paying me $1,700 to rent his own house. Not my fault. This time I let owner off on some repairs and stuff. I left meat on the bone.
xolepa says:
April 11, 2013 at 11:49 am
Sometimes the buyer wins. Check around and see if any landlord/resident has problem tenants or bad neighbors. Sometimes, they go over the edge and they will unload the property cheaper (as opposed to cheap). My parents did that over twenty years ago and got snookered. It caused great consternation as my wife an I kept arguing with them. They were very stubborn and lost out. My mother still blames us in not warning them about their own stupidity.
But that is the person you want to sell to you. In some kind of personal distress. Best way to find out is to be ‘on the in’ within the neighborhood.
JJ the year was 2004, easy pickings then. We still got way over what my neighbor, who was a realtor, said our house was worth. She was thrilled that she was wrong.
..and then again there are stupid buyers and even more stupid RE agents. My wife’s grandfather before his death (died at 90+ 15 years ago) deeded his single in Union to all grandkids. RE agent shows up at his wake with contract offer in hand. Unsolicited.
Offered market price, grandkids discussed and accepted in the funeral parlor.
All the buyer had to do was wait while the kids had to start payments on the house, and he would have gotten a better deal.
He was snookered – there was an abandoned underground oil tank. Know one knew about it, unless prehaps, the deceased. You couldn’t get him to testify on that.
clot: is this a good price?
http://www.thereadystore.com/mre/case-of-mre/military-meals-sandwich-variety-pack-case-of-72
Scrapple Cannon says:
April 11, 2013 at 11:05 am
Only buy housing after you are stoked to the gills with Hormel chili, bullets and PMs.
X [9];
Stalking is free.
Depends on what you value your time at. I’m not opposed to taking a risk with sweat equity, but it gives a false risk/reward balance to put $0 on the risk scale. Even if I wasn’t making money with that time, I could still be doing something I enjoy more.
Chifi nearly 300 bucks!? Crap wonder what the mark up is on that. Maybe I should invest in a prepper company.
For that price I could get a dehydrator and canning equipment. sure it is not a fancy schmancy MRE, but it eats just the same and they are not single use. Plus I can always just pillage the candy a$$ preppers, freaking world goes to crap I am just going to become Lord Humongous, why prepare when your OK with moral ambiguity.
Pain, found a nice Series II for you.
http://jalopnik.com/oh-land-rover-look-at-how-much-youve-changed-472447138
$300 to run a batch of uncrustables through a Ron Popeil Dehydrator, we are in the wrong business.
JJ – can you reiterate for me again the logic or reasoning behind walking away from a deal over a nickel again? (i think that was you).
I’m in need of some “spinal” support.
#25 redux
Sorry that Defender was for Clot.
I’m tempted by this. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-Land-Rover-Series-III-aka-Defender-/290895651095?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item43babb6117
(25) I stalked and got a multi at 35% under market value. I sold several years later and put that money toward building a French Provincial here in Hunterdon County. That was over twenty years ago. Was General Contractor, too. I was in my mid-thirties then and was already raising two kids with one more on the way. Also was a independent IT consultant and president of a Federal Credit Union – volunteer work – at the same time. Spare time, who needed it then. I had more than enough when I was in my twenties gallivanting.
I say, well, about 6 hours of stalking was an excellent use of my spare time. What is spare time for anyway? Drinking Beer? Cruising the internet? When you’re young you invest your spare time so that you can truly enjoy it later.
xolepa,
So, your plan worked. Still doesn’t mean your (spare?) time is worth nothing. If you used those 6 hours doing something else, maybe you’d be farther ahead in some other direction. The seen vs. unseen. Moose’s point stands.
Has anyone seen Scrapple?
http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/11136473/TX/El-Paso/Crash-blamed-on-zombies/Latest-News/
[29] fabius
Freshman year, a guy I met at orientation at UMass had one of those and he brought it to school with him. We lived in the same dorm so we hung out a lot and drove the rover a lot. Right hand steering, a blast to drive.
He was british (not sure if he brought it across the pond with him) and his name was Keith, so he was quickly dubbed “Moon.”
Whenever I saw him, he was shattered. So the nickname was apt, I suppose.
(31) Things don’t happen that easily. But if they do, consider yourself very fortunate. Everyone I know who has extra time and/or money on their hands now busted in their earlier years.
I still can’t sit still when I know there is some work to be done, somewhere. Anywhere.
Grim,
a few questions if I may. I’m preparing for my summer project.
ever heard of First Internet Bank? Rates dirt cheap.
Also, what about that broker Carl Nielsen? Do I really need a broker to refi or should i just deal w bank?
Thanks
Actually if it is way under market I would never do it. But recently there was a beach house last summer worth like 360 in my opinion, realtor got me up to 390K cause for me it was pretty perfect. Then the women kept harrassing me to 395, I dropped out, she then came back to me for 390 a few weeks later, which I responded I will give you full market price 360K.
Who knows I may have also backed out even if 360 was accepted. I do find it is usually the seller who makes the mistake going for extra 5k not the buyer.
BearsFan says:
April 11, 2013 at 1:54 pm
JJ – can you reiterate for me again the logic or reasoning behind walking away from a deal over a nickel again? (i think that was you).
I’m in need of some “spinal” support.
Actually I am the CEO of First Internet Bank, just wire a 3k application fee to my off shore pay pal account and I can get you a 1% mortgage.
anon (the good one) says:
April 11, 2013 at 2:28 pm
Grim,
a few questions if I may. I’m preparing for my summer project.
ever heard of First Internet Bank? Rates dirt cheap.
常来常看。受益匪浅。
the FDIC lists First Internet Bank as a real one, but must be impossible to get in touch with them if something goes wrong
chi (24)-
The Retort Pouch is state-of-the-art in MREs. Screaming buy.
A Retort Pouch will keep a ham sandwich fresh for at least 37 years.
plume (32)-
Nah. Just your garden-variety meth freak there.
36 – JJ, I’m now at a 2% spread with seller, but my last offer was really high for me and out of my comfort zone. I’m thinking I don’t want to give another millimeter, let alone an inch. But long term, it sounds nuts to walk. I guess there is a line at some point though YOU SHALL NOT PASS.
I worked with First Internet Bank. They seemed legit, although I didn’t work with them all the way to close. I used their best offer to bring Carl Nielson down to match. If Carl didn’t match, I would have used them without worry. And who needs to get in touch with their mortgage broker??? If they need something, they’ll get in touch with you. Once you commit, as long as your docs are in good order and thorough, you won’t hear from them again until the day before the closing. I’ve done 4 mortgages now (2 new and 2 refis). Never have I needed to call them!
“I guess there is a line at some point though YOU SHALL NOT PASS.”
Honor that line. My two offers, one which put me outside of my comfort zone were thankfully dropped. Time will reward you much more than overspending on something that you know is not quite worth it. Trust me.
Lib,
thanks for the feedback on Internet Bank. there is a tendency for cheap operations to lose docs, not answer messages, make mistakes (in their favor) and that is the concern about getting in touch with them. but, they are offering 2.3 for a 15 yr. with reasonable closing costs.
well color me f*cking shocked
http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/293071-costs-mount-for-health-laws-exchanges
Trouble is all you have left to get price down is quick close, as is, cash deal. Usually that is what I do. But once seller says that is it, hard to keep going lower if you accept the guy to fix your home inspecting things, broom clean house, deal with your bank appraisal, home inspector, and a mortgage contingency stuff
I think you can get a mortgage up to 90 days after close. I know folks in Hamptons all the time do the cash deal then get mortgage. Folks will give you 1-10% off for cash. Of course you need a big HELOC line or Margin account to do this.
BearsFan says:
April 11, 2013 at 3:53 pm
36 – JJ, I’m now at a 2% spread with seller, but my last offer was really high for me and out of my comfort zone. I’m thinking I don’t want to give another millimeter, let alone an inch. But long term, it sounds nuts to walk. I guess there is a line at some point though YOU SHALL NOT PASS.
BearsFan says:
April 11, 2013 at 3:53 pm
36 – JJ, I’m now at a 2% spread with seller, but my last offer was really high for me and out of my comfort zone. I’m thinking I don’t want to give another millimeter, let alone an inch. But long term, it sounds nuts to walk. I guess there is a line at some point though YOU SHALL NOT PASS.
I did the pretty much the same thing. I could have swung it at the “out of my comfort zone range” a few months ago. I didn’t feel the possible future value of the house was worth my discomfort on a daily basis. There will always be another house. And if there is another bubble there will be another bursting of that bubble.
[24] chifi,
As my army buds used to say:
MREs. The next best thing to food
MRE: three lies for the price of one
MRE. Meal Ready to Explode
[47]. Pain
I’m tempted to go back a couple of years and find out who was calling me delusional for suggesting that this would happen.
My guess is that it was one of the usual suspects.
I’m not suggesting you stop working or let things in need of attention deteriorate. The original point made was that time spent on a project with no ‘hard’ dollars spent still has a cost.
34.xolepa says:
April 11, 2013 at 2:28 pm
(31) Things don’t happen that easily. But if they do, consider yourself very fortunate. Everyone I know who has extra time and/or money on their hands now busted in their earlier years.
I still can’t sit still when I know there is some work to be done, somewhere. Anywhere.
I have to echo this…..
You are streching, yet there is no way to ever get your costs lower than at this point….the only way is to pay down principal and then refi out and reset the amortization schedule……think about everything that has to have come together just to get to this point…..
If you are ready to buy…go for it…if your life is ready to buy fine, but take the financial piece out of it, because buying now has nothing to do with bettering your financial life….buying now is a lifestyle decision….absolutely nothing else….
Libtard in the City says:
April 11, 2013 at 4:04 pm
“I guess there is a line at some point though YOU SHALL NOT PASS.”
Honor that line. My two offers, one which put me outside of my comfort zone were thankfully dropped. Time will reward you much more than overspending on something that you know is not quite worth it. Trust me.
clot: is this a nephew or some other close relation?
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/texas_college_stabbing_suspect_interested_3x970EefPXccjMyBaAm17O
thanks chi. I asked grim to send you a copy of an email i sent him regarding the house, i was actually looking for your thoughts. I guess he didn’t forward it though.
Bears 2%? Best deal is when both parties close and nobody is 100% happy. You will be 98% happy and at these rates?
JB yup….2%. I’ve been juggling both chi and your angles for a few days in my head. ahh, the reckoning.
Bears – I feel ya. For me the happiness of the kids and wife made all the difference. If you need to down a few to write the check I will join ya.
thanx JB. I’ll let you know what happens, if anything.
chi (54)-
I would’ve traced my family tree on that one, but when I saw the part about slicing off people’s faces and using them as masks, I knew he was just another Ted Bundy wannabe.
Sharpe James!
NEWARK — Former Newark Mayor Sharpe James was robbed today on a street in his hometown, police and family members said.
While standing on the 1100 block of Bergen Street, a teenager approached the 77-year-old James and snatched a gold chain from his neck, his son, John Sharpe James, said.
“It happened so quick — the kid came up from behind,” the younger James said. “He thought somebody was joking with him.”
The account was confirmed by two police officials, one of whom said the former mayor was put in a choke-hold. James was not injured, his son said.
James served as Newark mayor from 1986 to 2006. He also served as state senator from 1999 to 2008. In April 2008, he was convicted of five counts of fraud by a federal jury and was sentenced to 27 months in prison.
http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2013/04/sharpe_james_robbed_of_gold_ch.html
juice: isnt the rates thing a negative? You are actually paying up because of the rates…a more expensive house becomes more affordable, yet the rates have nowhere to go but up, hence, any future buyer is going to factor in a higher payment to the purchasing decision…..it is a headwind forever, since rock bottom rates are now…..also, Bear become capitive to mortgage, because any future buying decision has one factor being tossing away “this” mortgage.
If bear is going to be in this house for at least 15 years….then it doesn’t really matter…..
Juice Box says:
April 11, 2013 at 8:44 pm
Bears 2%? Best deal is when both parties close and nobody is 100% happy. You will be 98% happy and at these rates?
The only one happy in this transaction is the Realtor(R)…self-explanatory…..
Juice Box says:
April 11, 2013 at 8:44 pm
Bears 2%? Best deal is when both parties close and nobody is 100% happy. You will be 98% happy and at these rates?
grim has ADHD…..
BearsFan says:
April 11, 2013 at 8:43 pm
thanks chi. I asked grim to send you a copy of an email i sent him regarding the house, i was actually looking for your thoughts. I guess he didn’t forward it though.
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