Housing Cage Match: Cities vs Suburbs vs Exurbs

From the WSJ (Hat tip Orange):

U.S. Cities Growing Faster Than Suburbs

America’s biggest cities are continuing to outgrow their suburbs as the economy’s plodding recovery makes it harder for city dwellers to move to greener pastures.

The nation’s 51 largest metropolitan areas — those with populations over one million — saw their city populations grow 1.12% between July 2011 and July 2012, up from 1.03% a year earlier and an average of 0.42% between 2000 and 2010, according to an analysis of Census data by demographer William Frey of the Brookings Institution in Washington. By contrast, these cities’ suburbs grew just 0.97% last year, higher than 2011’s 0.96% but far below the average of 1.38% in the previous decade. In the New York-Northern New Jersey metro area, New York City — the nation’s largest, with over 8 million people — saw its population grow 0.8% between July 2011 and July 2012, much faster than the 0.3% growth of its suburbs. Between 2000 and 2010, the New York metro area’s suburbs generally grew faster than New York City.

Fewer people “are moving out of the big urban cores because the recession [and sluggish recovery have] tended to freeze people in place,” says Kenneth Johnson, senior demographer at the Carsey Institute and a sociology professor at the University of New Hampshire. The Chicago metro area exemplifies the trend: Chicago’s population grew 0.4% between July 2011 and July 2012, while its suburbs grew only 0.2%. In the 2000s, Chicago’s population dropped 0.5% on average, while its suburbs gained 0.9%.

For many decades, Americans tended to move out of major cities into nearby suburbs, especially as cars let them commute to work — driving up suburban populations at the expense of cities. Young people in particular have moved to cities for jobs, especially from rural areas, and then switched to suburbs in their 30s when they built families. The U.S. housing boom from 2002 to 2006 accelerated these trends, sending Americans scrambling to find properties to buy in outer suburbs and even exurbs — while luring them to new jobs in the West and South.

Census data last year showed this migration to the suburbs stalled in 2010-2011. A combination of fewer moves out of cities and increases in population from births and immigration pushed up the overall growth rate of city populations beyond that of suburbs — something that hadn’t happened since the 1920s, by some measures. Now the trend appears to be getting entrenched.

“We would have expected this to change — and it hasn’t,” said Brookings’ Mr. Frey. “The question is, is this just a short-term effect, or something long-term?”

America’s housing market has only recently turned a corner. Once it revs up and more Americans are buying houses, that may push more people into the suburbs, Mr. Frey says.

One possibility, Mr. Frey said, is the recent revival of cities is partly due to a “generational phenomenon.” Younger people may have put their lives on hold indefinitely because of the downturn, delaying marriage, kids and home-buying — or even watched older siblings get burned by housing decisions, making them wary of buying in the suburbs. Much of the growth of America’s exurbs, meanwhile, may never return, he said.

This entry was posted in Demographics, Economics, Housing Recovery, National Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

65 Responses to Housing Cage Match: Cities vs Suburbs vs Exurbs

  1. Brian says:

    Growth in the exurbs? You must be joking.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highlands_Water_Protection_and_Planning_Act

    Highlands Water Protection and Planning Act
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Highlands Water Protection and Planning Act is a 2004 New Jersey law aimed at protecting the Highlands region of northwest New Jersey by regulating development within the region under the supervision of the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection. The Highland region covers 859,000 acres (3,480 km2), nearly one-ninth of the state,[1] and is home to 880,000 residents.[2] The area is primarily in Warren, Morris, Hunterdon, Passaic, and Sussex counties. The act is intended to preserve both large volumes of New Jersey’s fresh water sources for 5.4 million residents and the biodiversity in the area, in the face of increasing development in the exurbs of New York City.

  2. grim says:

    I’m still somewhat challenged by the definitions of city versus suburb vs exurb. Those specific criteria simply can’t be consistent across the US.

    For example, the New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA Metropolitan Statistical Area is made up of just under 19 million people. The largest subcomponent of this is the area including NYC and the immediate surroundings, the New York-White Plains-Wayne, NY-NJ Metropolitan Division, made up of just under 12 million people. Along side LA, these are the two highest population density areas in the US.

    Comparing against the 2010 census list of urbanized areas, NYC, LA, and Chicago metros FAR outnumber most all cities and urban areas (19m, 12m, 8m respectively). You would need to combine the next 12 most populous urban areas to equal the population of the top 3 (Miami, Philly, Dallas, Houston, Washington, Atlanta, Boston, Detroit, Phoenix, SF, Seattle, and San Diego).

    Dallas? 5 million
    Washington? 4.5 million
    Boston? Touch over 4 million
    Most other large metros in the US are a third or less of the NY Metro area.
    St. Louis? 2m
    Columbus? 1.3m
    Jacksonville? 1m
    SLC? 1m
    Nashville? 1m

    Hell, more people live in Bergen County than the whole of the Nashville Metro. So is Bergen a Suburb or is Bergen a city? Based on population and population density, should’t BC be a city in it’s own right?

    So what’s a City and what’s a Suburb? What’s the dividing line?

    When I look at sat maps of cities across the US, it’s clear what a city is, it’s a bunch of dots in the middle of nowhere, but look at LA, Chicago and NYC? It’s all dots, there is no delineation.

  3. Brian says:

    Areas under the Highlands Act may get compensation
    The program may help developers and land owners who hare under restrictions

    http://spartaindependent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130522/NEWS01/130529961/Areas-under-the-Highlands-Act-may-get-compensation

    NEWTON — The Skylands Group of the Sierra Club heard — and saw — a presentation on the Transfer of Development Rights (TDR) program, which was instituted as part of the Highlands Water Protection and Planning Act.

    The Transfer of Development Rights program is designed to enable the property owners to recoup some of the value that they have lost because of the restriction put into place when Governor James McGreevey signed the Highland Act into law in 2004.

    It allows a community to use market forces to encourage the transfer of development potential from areas that the community wants to preserve (called sending zones) to areas that are more appropriate to accommodate increased growth (called receiving zones).

    Landowners in the sending zones receive compensation for restricting development on their property. As a market-based system, payment for this lost development potential comes from purchasers who buy credits representing the lost development potential in the sending zones.

    The credits then entitle the purchaser to build in a receiving zone at a density greater than that permitted in the underlying zoning.

    The TDR program is being considered by property owners in Byram Township. Township Councilman Scott Olson commented, “Here in Byram, we have some of the most pristine and environmentally sensitive areas within the Highlands, and TDR provides one of the best tools available for land preservation, by purchasing development rights from a landowner and shifting that development to an appropriate location…The benefit to the property owner is that the actual land remains theirs; it does not become public.”

  4. JSMC says:

    #2

    So what’s a City and what’s a Suburb? What’s the dividing line?

    Pull the magnification back a bit: What’s a suburb and what’s an exurb? Do you have to go to sussex county and west if we’re talking about NNJ? I grew up on the far western edge of the pine barrens, right where the farms end the wilderness starts…but suburban developments are right up the road, less than 5 minutes…which are suburbs and which are exurbs?

  5. grim says:

    Do you have to go to sussex county and west if we’re talking about NNJ?

    Typically, how I understand it, exurban is traditionally the furthest outer-ring *growth* associated with a city. The growth and development is what differentiates exurb and rural.

    So looking back at what Brian posted, since there is no outer ring development due to the Highlands provisions, those areas are no longer “exurban” by definition, but rural (I may just be arguing about semantics at this point). Exurb frozen in time?

    Central Jersey poses another issue with regards to “exurban” definition. Because Central NJ is right in the middle of the most populated metro (NYC) and the fifth most populous metro (Philly), can any of central NJ even be considered “exurb”? The further you get from NYC, the closer to you get to Philly.

  6. JJ says:

    New Jersey legislative budget and finance officer David Rosen is projecting the state will collect $700.6 million less in the next two fiscal years than the state’s executive branch has predicted.

  7. grim says:

    Wondering if Pike County, PA and Orange County, NY are probably the two areas closest to the “exurban” definition.

  8. JSMC says:

    #5

    Typically, how I understand it, exurban is traditionally the furthest outer-ring *growth* associated with a city. The growth and development is what differentiates exurb and rural.

    By that definition, the street I grew up on is the last eastern exurb of Philly. It was the last development built going that far east of Philly (that I’m aware of). Once you got past that you were in no-man’s land until you hit the GSP on the other side around exit 72.

  9. JJ says:

    Funny when I lived in Manhattan Yonkers was upstate New York, Hoboken was the sticks, Brooklyn was too far to go. People parents lived in the suburbs of Nassau and Bergen County.

    Surburbs/Exurbs is a moving definition. My Mom in 1955 lived on 73rd street by Central Park in NYC her grandaunt who bought the rooming house she lived in back in the 1920’s did so cause it was quite and uptown away from everything. In 1940-1965 it got crowded up there and newlyweds moved to the surburbs of the Bronx, by 1965 and on folks starting moved in Nassau and Bergan counties and by 1980 they started moving further on in NJ and into Suffolk county Long Island.

    grim says:
    May 24, 2013 at 8:43 am

    Wondering if Pike County, PA and Orange County, NY are probably the two areas closest to the “exurban” definition.

  10. Ottoman says:

    “since there is no outer ring development due to the Highlands provisions” – Not exactly true. The Highlands concentrates development along already existing corridors so it actually encourages development along Routes 57 and 31 in Warren County for example. I think they’re called “Highlands Planning Areas” as opposed to “Highlands Preservation Areas.” I would imagine also in the Newton area in Sussex, maybe all of Route 206 and Route 23 except for any designated environmentally sensitive areas.

  11. Brian says:

    10 – the Wikipedia article did not list Newton as a municipality regulated by the act.

    There are two major developments in town before the planning board. One is to build a large 55+ community on Spring street across from the Theater. The other is to build 54 townhomes off Newton-Sparta road near the strip mall where the old Quick Chek is located.

  12. Ottoman says:

    According to this map from the Highlands website, 2/3ds of Sussex isn’t in the Highlands at all.

    http://www.nj.gov/dep/highlands/highlands_map.pdf

  13. grim says:

    I didn’t say Sussex, JSMC did.

    My point was that Highlands created a geographic barrier to the contiguous urban to suburban to exurban continuum.

    The preservation areas are exactly where you would expect the next ring of exurban development to be taking place.

  14. Comrade Nom Deplume, Halfwit Dumbass says:

    [14] chifi

    I thought the second page sucked.

  15. Brian says:

    I don’t think the Highlands act makes those areas any less desirable. If there’s any affect, I would think it further restricts supply.

  16. grim says:

    This shows what I mean better – Look at the fall off in population density (bright to dull orange):

    http://njrereport.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/pop_density.png

    (huge picture warning)

  17. Comrade Nom Deplume, Halfwit Dumbass says:

    [6] JJ

    “New Jersey legislative budget and finance officer David Rosen is projecting the state will collect $700.6 million less in the next two fiscal years than the state’s executive branch has predicted.”

    I’m doing my part to make that happen. Right down to seeing if I can get out of a hearing in Atlantic county today. Don’t feel like driving to the shore on a Friday before Memorial Day for what I think is a waste of time and judicial resources.

  18. JJ says:

    http://www.redfin.com/NY/Long-Beach/48-Barnes-St-11561/home/20239578

    I love this Long Beach house that just sold, flooded then caught fire and sold as is!!!

    Amazing when price is right what you can sell.

  19. grim says:

    I love this Long Beach house that just sold, flooded then caught fire and sold as is!!!

    The house didn’t sell for $155k, the dirt did.

    If Long Beach is anything like Jersey Shore, the dirt is what you are buying, as it’s by far the most expensive part of the transaction. Lots of times down there, when you are talking about crappy run down beach shack, realize that you are probably getting the house for free when you buy the land.

  20. grim says:

    By the way, Jordans makes a slammin’ lobster roll.

  21. Anon E. Moose says:

    Scrapple [90, prev thread];

    Nom did predict that once.

  22. JJ says:

    Jordans is in Island Park, which has tons of restaurants.

    Jordans is open, so it Peters Clam Shack.

    Panchos Cantina and Ruby Tuesdays got destroyed,. looks like a scene from a post nuke movie till this day.

    Pops in Island Park which is right on Water got rebuilt and is already, open. Really cool place.
    http://www.popsseafoodshack.com/

    Whistlestop bakery is also open, makes best cheesecake in tri state area

    http://www.kpsearch.com/DF/WhistleStop1/all.asp

    Restaurants like Peter Lugar, and the Palm get their Lobsters from Jordans and their Deserts from Whistlestop. Folks in the know swing by both on the way home from beach, grab a few lobsters at Jordans and up the road a cheesecake at whistle stop. If you ordered that in the restaurant it would cost you at least $250 for dinner for four. To go maybe $50 bucks.

    NY Sports Club and Movie theater in Long Beach WOW – aint never opening again. Imagine 800 moldy chairs bolted to ground and an entire floor of rusted weights and blown out threadmills.

    They are lucky Memorial Day sucks weather wise. They aint ready. The next big weekend if 4th of July and they better get their act together.

  23. Libtard in the City says:

    “New Jersey legislative budget and finance officer David Rosen is projecting the state will collect $700.6 million less in the next two fiscal years than the state’s executive branch has predicted.”

    It must be election time again, although no one really pays attention anyhow.

  24. Sima says:

    One way to think of northeastern NJ is as “urban suburbia”. Everyone around here thinks they live in the suburbs, but maps show that most of it is urban density from NY City all the way west to 287.
    But northeastern NJ is urban when you compare it to so-called other cities in the US – for example: Toledo (like Montclair in density), or Kalamazoo (even less dense). People coming from other parts of the US by air always express shock over the miles and miles of dense housing,etc that they can see from the air – yup, it looks like one big sprawling city that stretches as far as the eye can see.

  25. Libtard in the City says:

    It’s worse in the LA area. If it wasn’t for a few air force bases, all of Southern California, from San Diego to Oxnard, looks way more dense than the area from New Brunswick up to Greenwood Lake. Maybe not as many multi-storied buildings, but not an acre of land left to be developed.

  26. Fast Eddie says:

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Some labor unions that enthusiastically backed President Barack Obama’s health care overhaul are now frustrated and angry, fearful that it will jeopardize benefits for millions of their members.

    Union leaders warn that unless the problem is fixed, there could be consequences for Democrats facing re-election next year.

    “It makes an untruth out of what the president said — that if you like your insurance, you could keep it,” said Joe Hansen, president of the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union. “That is not going to be true for millions of workers now.”

    LMAO!!!!

  27. Libtard in the City says:

    “Union leaders warn that unless the problem is fixed, there could be consequences for Democrats facing re-election next year.”

    Baa…Baa!

  28. 1987 Condo Buyer says:

    “It makes an untruth out of what the president said — that if you like your insurance, you could keep it,” said Joe Hansen, president of the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union. “That is not going to be true for millions of workers now.”….DUH!

  29. Richard says:

    Houston: 8.7m
    Philly: 7.6m
    Phoenix: 7.5m
    San Antonio: 6.9m
    San Diego: 6.5m
    Dallas: 6.2m
    San Jose: 5.7m

    Thats a lot of Texans

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cities_and_metropolitan_areas_of_the_United_States

  30. JJ says:

    Union people have a right to be upset about Obama care. I know a few people who took union jobs or worked for state at less pay cause of free medical for life.

    Example Pharmacists who work in Supermarkets are in the union and get free medical for life when they retire. CVS which is non-unionized with no free medical for life pays like 10k to 20K a year more. Over a 40 year career that could be 400K to 800K in lost salary. Then retirement comes and Obama changes rules and everyone has same medical plan. Kick in the pants. Do I care no. But I do understand why they are mad

  31. JJ says:

    OK how poor is poor in NY? I mean what income level would you say is poor. I only ask as Robin Hood Foundation gave a 2k grant to folks near me for repairs. It is income based. So lady said to fill it out as they are pretty liberal. So I did, actual income and I got the grant. Then another break for middle class tax payers was offered. This one you need less than 500K adjusted gross income.

    I saw a few with really low income stuff like 40k, but some with up to 500K. And they dont count assets. So two million in the bank and a Mercedes in the driveway with a 499K income and no debt you can still get a middle class grant.

    Funny Bruce Springsteen, Wall Street, Hedge funds in the Robin Hood Charity anyone making under one million a year is in poverty.

  32. Essex says:

    Rock on peeps’! Be safe this weekend.

  33. BearsFan says:

    grim, what’s the average DP into escrow, the 10 days after AR….is it percentage based?

  34. chicagofinance says:

    POTOMAC WATCH
    By KIMBERLEY A. STRASSEL

    The White House insists President Obama is “outraged” by the “inappropriate” targeting and harassment of conservative groups. If true, it’s a remarkable turnaround for a man who helped pioneer those tactics.

    On Aug. 21, 2008, the conservative American Issues Project ran an ad highlighting ties between candidate Obama and Bill Ayers, formerly of the Weather Underground. The Obama campaign and supporters were furious, and they pressured TV stations to pull the ad—a common-enough tactic in such ad spats.

    What came next was not common. Bob Bauer, general counsel for the campaign (and later general counsel for the White House), on the same day wrote to the criminal division of the Justice Department, demanding an investigation into AIP, “its officers and directors,” and its “anonymous donors.” Mr. Bauer claimed that the nonprofit, as a 501(c)(4), was committing a “knowing and willful violation” of election law, and wanted “action to enforce against criminal violations.”

    AIP gave Justice a full explanation as to why it was not in violation. It said that it operated exactly as liberal groups like Naral Pro-Choice did. It noted that it had disclosed its donor, Texas businessman Harold Simmons. Mr. Bauer’s response was a second letter to Justice calling for the prosecution of Mr. Simmons. He sent a third letter on Sept. 8, again smearing the “sham” AIP’s “illegal electoral purpose.”

    Also on Sept. 8, Mr. Bauer complained to the Federal Election Commission about AIP and Mr. Simmons. He demanded that AIP turn over certain tax documents to his campaign (his right under IRS law), then sent a letter to AIP further hounding it for confidential information (to which he had no legal right).

    The Bauer onslaught was a big part of a new liberal strategy to thwart the rise of conservative groups. In early August 2008, the New York Times trumpeted the creation of a left-wing group (a 501(c)4) called Accountable America. Founded by Obama supporter and liberal activist Tom Mattzie, the group—as the story explained—would start by sending “warning” letters to 10,000 GOP donors, “hoping to create a chilling effect that will dry up contributions.” The letters would alert “right-wing groups to a variety of potential dangers, including legal trouble, public exposure and watchdog groups digging through their lives.” As Mr. Mattzie told Mother Jones: “We’re going to put them at risk.”

    [edit]

    This history also casts light on White House claims that it was clueless about the IRS’s targeting. As Huffington Post’s Howard Fineman wrote this week: “With two winning presidential campaigns built on successful grassroots fundraising, with a former White House counsel (in 2010-11) who is one of the Democrats’ leading experts on campaign law (Bob Bauer), with former top campaign officials having been ensconced as staffers in the White House . . . it’s hard to imagine that the Obama inner circle was oblivious to the issue of what the IRS was doing in Cincinnati.” More like inconceivable.

    And this history exposes the left’s hollow claim that the IRS mess rests on Citizens United. The left was targeting conservative groups and donors well before the Supreme Court’s 2010 ruling on independent political expenditures by corporations.

    If the country wants to get to the bottom of the IRS scandal, it must first remember the context for this abuse. That context leads to this White House.

  35. Juice Box says:

    I hate two things packing and painting. Two jobs I should have outsourced.

  36. Comrade Nom Deplume, Halfwit dumbass says:

    [29] condo

    I’m shocked, shocked . . .

    Seriously, readers of this here lil ol’ blog knew that. Three years ago.

  37. cobbler says:

    Fab[39]
    With all due respect, this is patented nonsense: Roundup is a herbicide (kills weeds), not insecticide. You need to essentially bathe the bugs (bees, too) in Roundup solution to kill them. So, yes, any bees are pretty resistant…

  38. Anon E. Moose says:

    Fab [39];

    You were cheerleading Dear Leader and the Jackboots just last fall. What different did you expect? In Illinois?

  39. joyce says:

    39
    I hope you object to the lack of due process IN EVERY SITUATION in the future. There is no conceivable reason not to.

  40. joyce says:

    Actually, I would like to ask you a question related to that story. If someone acting under the color of law (or just outright trespassing) is unlawfully on your property and robbing/destroying your property… in your opinion, what is the victim allowed to do, in the moment, as a response?

  41. Fabius Maximus says:

    #40 cobbler

    I’ll defer to the beekeeper on the science of it. http://www.bouldercountybeekeepers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/TheCaseAgainstRoundUp1.pdf

  42. Fabius Maximus says:

    #42 moose

    Over Romney and any manifestation of todays GOP, I’ll still vote the O. As I have said since 2008, it doesn’t matter who is on the D side, the GOP is unelectable until 2020. If Jop B gets the primary nod in 2016 he is a shoe in. If Hillary goes that 2020 moves to 2024.

    But to address your point. I don’t look at the government side I look at if from who pushed the wheels of government to act that way. Just like with the take down of Elliott Spitzer. The FBI were correctly doing their job acting on information.
    In the same manner with the IRS. The day to day people in the offices are not swapped out every 4 years with a change of administration. The cabinet and executive branch change, but the civil servants live out their terms and the lower downs are not affected by the change. Pelosi made the point that the head of the IRS came in under GWB. While I will agree there can be some political manipulation of the departments at a high level, the systemic nature people are claiming with the IRS, just does not exist

  43. Fabius Maximus says:

    #44 Joyce

    Shoot them!
    /sarc

  44. Randy says:

    My impression is that 10% is typical DP into escrow, approx 10 days after conclusion of AR.

    We’re having to do an oil tank sweep because the seller can only produce documents that a (still open) permit was obtained to remove an oil tank– no paperwork or receipts that the tank was actually removed, or sweep done, etc. Careless of these people to have trusted that the oil tank was actually removed after the permits were obtained!!

  45. cobbler says:

    fab[45]
    You can as well find blogs stating that Roundup causes cancer, impotence, acne and sinus infections. There is no peer-reviewed literature validating the bee-damage claim. EU, with its chemophobia, just recently prohibited the use of 2 neonicotinoid pesticides suspected of hurting the honeybees – but they don’t have any issue with Roundup.

  46. joyce says:

    Of course you wouldn’t answer the question. My assumption is that your truthful answer would be ‘bend over’

    47.Fabius Maximus says:
    May 24, 2013 at 11:39 pm
    #44 Joyce

    Shoot them!
    /sarc

  47. grim says:

    It’s worse in the LA area. If it wasn’t for a few air force bases, all of Southern California, from San Diego to Oxnard, looks way more dense than the area from New Brunswick up to Greenwood Lake. Maybe not as many multi-storied buildings, but not an acre of land left to be developed.

    Sure about that? Was just in LA a couple of days ago, don’t know about that, sprawl may be worse here. May be close. Other than flying into Chicago, flying into LA and NYC are both very similar from a sprawl perspective.

  48. grim says:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density

    1. Guttenberg, NJ (NYC) – 56k per sq.mi
    2. Union City, NJ (NYC)
    3. West New York, NJ (NYC)
    4. Hoboken, NJ (NYC)
    5. New York City, NY (NYC)
    6. Maywood, CA (LA)
    7. Cliffside Park, NJ (NYC)
    8. Newark, NJ (NYC)
    9. Passaic, NJ (NYC)
    10. Cudahy, CA (LA)
    11. Great Neck, NY (NYC)
    12. Irvington, NJ (NYC)
    13. North Bay Village, FL (MIA)
    14. Huntington Park, CA (LA)
    15. Kaser, NY (NYC)
    16. West Hollywood, CA (LA)
    17. Somerville, MA (BOS)
    18. East Orange, NJ (NYC)
    19. Bell Gardens, CA (LA)
    20. Paterson, NJ (NYC) – 17k per sq.mi.

  49. grim says:

    And to make the whole thing even more complicated, can you even compare the Northeast Megapolis to the rest of the country?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_megalopolis

    French geographer Jean Gottmann popularized the term in his 1961 book Megalopolis: The Urbanized Northeastern Seaboard of the United States, his landmark study of the region. His conclusion was that the various cities contained in the region—especially Washington, D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York City, and Boston—are, while discrete and independent, uniquely tied to each other through the intermeshing of their suburban zones, acting in some ways as a unified super-city: a megalopolis.

  50. grim says:

    Probably the single coolest picture of the NE Megapolis:

    http://i.space.com/images/i/000/015/583/i02/eastern-seaboard-1600.jpg?1330539613

  51. grim says:

    grim, what’s the average DP into escrow, the 10 days after AR….is it percentage based?

    Completely subjective, there is no norm or average. When I write up a contract I almost always use $1k with the offer and an additional $9k after AR, total of $10k. This is typically 1-3% or so.

    EMD is largely irrelevant from a negotiation perspective, as total DP is a more meaningful predictor or mortgage.

    In the last 7 years or so I’ve never heard of a single case of a seller keeping an deposit if a deal fell through (locally, residential resale, not commercial or new construction). A big reason for that is probably the mortgage contingency. But also likely that folks generally aren’t dicks. If push came to shove, it wouldn’t be difficult for a buyer to sabotage their mortgage, and trigger the contingency.

    I wouldn’t go anywhere near 10% for fear of having those funds tied up in escrow should something go south with the deal.

  52. BearsFan says:

    Thanks grim, that’s what I was thinking. They are asking for 5%.
    I’ll push back.

  53. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [55];

    Reminds me how much I loved flying over LI at night.

  54. Comrade Nom Deplume, Halfwit dumbass says:

    Stuck with family in Pike County today. Girls bouncing of walls, I so need a drink.

    But I finally got a chance to check some scores. Sweeeet!!!!

    Pain, still looking to deliver, buddy.

  55. cobbler says:

    moose [58]
    Manhattan on the nighttime approach to EWR along the Hudson is one of the most beautiful and unforgettable views in the world. I am always requesting a seat on the left side of the plane when coming in in the dark with the hope we don’t take a southern approach, and the weather is OK.

  56. Juice Box says:

    Only noise at my new place is the planes flying into Newark from the south, will be very quite at night very much unlike Hoboken. I will be out back smoking the occasional cigar enjoying the quiet life listening for the caterwaul.

  57. Anon E. Moose says:

    Congrats, Juice. Hope you enjoy long and well.

  58. LoveNJ says:

    Done with last of six-pack. See you all.

  59. WickedOrange says:

    Sucks when you’re the last house in Tenafly, trying to sell (overpriced) and your next door neighbor in Bergenfield can’t be bothered to mow the lawn.

    http://postimg.org/image/9ltreg8tn/

    I got a kick out of that.

  60. WickedOrange says:

    Newark star ledger reporting that new Ruters AD Julie Hermann was accused of verbally abusing her players as Tennessee volleyball coach back in 90s. Also accused of telling an assistant coach that she would likely loss her job if she got preggers.

    For those trying to keep score, that means Rutgers discovered one of their coaches was abusing its players- tried to cover it up until another assistant coach blew them in. They fired their AD, who claims he was the fall guy. They then replace him with a person who six of her former players say abused them and forced her to resign. There’s also a video the new AD said doesn’t exist, that clearly shows the new AD inferring that a preggers assistant coach would be an unwanted situation.

    Amid all of that it announced that its new basketball coach was a graduate of Rutgers, when he actually wasn’t.

    This is an amazing display of utter incompetence.

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