From Trulia:
Bubblephobes, Rejoice: Asking Home Prices Declined in July
First Signs of Slowdown: Prices Down 0.3% Month-over-Month
Asking home prices decreased 0.3% in July – the first month-over-month decline since November 2012. Although monthly changes can be volatile, quarter-over-quarter changes – which are less jumpy – confirm the price slowdown: asking prices were up 3.3% quarter-over-quarter in July, down from a peak of 4.2% in April.
What’s driving this slowdown? As we’ve said, rising mortgage rates, more inventory, and declining investor demand all play a role in dampening price gains, but it’s hard to tease out which factor matters most. Inventory has increased 6% since January (even after adjusting for seasonality), and mortgage rates started their sharp rise in early May.
Prices are up 11.0% year-over-year – a new record since the recession – but the year-over-year change is an average over the past 12 months. That’s why the price turndown affects the month-over-month and quarter-over-quarter numbers first, even though the year-over-year change is increasing – for now.
…
Rents Up 3.9%, But Prices are Rising Faster EverywhereRents are up 3.9% year-over-year nationally. That’s a big increase compared with inflation or with income growth – but small compared with price gains. Even with the beginning of the price slowdown, prices outpaced rents in all 25 of the largest rental markets, making July the first time that rents aren’t rising faster than prices in any major market. Rents are rising fastest in the artisan coffee belt – Seattle, San Francisco, and Portland – along with Houston.
So Obama again calls for HARP 3, but at the same time calls for the wind down of Freddie and Fannie. Does he realize that HARP would not have been possible if Freddie and Fannie did not exist? There would be no way at all to mandate that kind of activity across the private sector, which is essentially why HARP 3 does not exist, and is only possible if F&F agree to refinance underwater/nonconforming private sector mortgages.
So which is it?
Hmm, looks like I’m not the only one… From Bloomberg:
Has Obama Forgotten the Danger of Loose Mortgage Lending?
Politicians have been promising more than they can deliver since the dawn of democracy. So it’s no surprise that President Barack Obama wants to make housing more affordable, ensure that home prices keep going up, reduce taxpayer support for the mortgage-finance system and prevent future crises — simultaneously. But some of the items on his wish list, as outlined in a speech Tuesday in Phoenix, are contradictory.
Many of the president’s goals are smart steps along the path of reform. Private lenders should have to deal with the consequences of their own bad decisions without dumping them on taxpayers. It should be easier for borrowers who are current on their loans to refinance at today’s relatively low mortgage rates. And government policy shouldn’t favor homeownership over renting, now that it’s clear renting is the better option for millions of households.
Some of Obama’s other ideas are worrisome. It’s all well and good to say that the government should “cut red tape” and “simplify overlapping regulations” so that “responsible families” have an easier time buying homes. But what does this mean in practice? Should income and down-payment requirements be eased? Lest we forget, lowering lending standards was precisely what got us into the housing mess in the previous decade.
In his speech, Obama sketched out a sensible plan for limiting taxpayers’ exposure. What he still needs is a strategy for setting minimum standards for the kinds of mortgages that can be packaged into securities by Wall Street banks.
From Wonkblog:
Obama wants to help people refinance their mortgages. Is it too late?
For years, the Obama administration and regulators have been working to find ways to make it easier for Americans to refinance their mortgages, so that low interest rates might do more to stimulate economic growth. The president announced new proposals just this afternoon that includes streamlining paperwork, waiving closing costs for those with shorter-term loans and allowing families without government-backed mortgages to qualify.
But is it too late?
New government efforts might help streamline the process for refinancing, but there’s one roadblock Obama can’t remove: rising interest rates. Mortgage rates have shot up nearly a percentage point since the start of the year, with the biggest jump occurring over the past two months. The average rate for a traditional 30-year fixed rate loan last week was 4.39 percent, compared to 3.34 percent in January.
That has made refinancing look a lot less attractive for many households – and their prospects are unlikely to get any better. That’s partly because the Federal Reserve is weighing pulling back its support for the housing market, which would push rates even higher. James Marple, senior economist for TD Bank, predicts mortgage rates will rise to 4.8 percent by the end of next year and hit 5.5 percent in 2015.
“The low watermark for mortgages has passed,” he wrote in a note to clients.
Ok, let me take the counterpoint all the way to the edge here.
I find it silly that we choose to bail out a failing GM, and pat ourselves on the back at what a good job we did saving an industry.
But at the same time, feel the need to dismantle the very profitable Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Fannie Mae made $17.2 billion in profit in 2012, putting it ahead of Walmart, GE, and even Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway (according to Bloomberg). Wait, did you get that? They made a profit, a big one, and if the recovery continues, can be expected to make much, much more. Payback of the $188 billion bailout seems not just plausible, but very very possible.
So which is it? Why is it OK to rescue the failing US auto business, but was wrong to rescue the very successful US mortgage business? Secondly, the incredibly ineffective TARP program spent $700 billion dollars with almost zero positive impact, yet the GSE bailout at $188 billion is the big gaffe? By the way, F&F have already paid back more than $50 billion of the bailout money.
Consider that the GSE bailout/nationalization may have been the wisest money spent, and perhaps the GSEs should remain as completely nationalized entities?
The fact is, and I’ve said it before, I have no faith in our legislature to rebuild a new national mortgage marketplace. Freddie and Fannie are not players in some existing market that will continue to exist without them, Freddie and Fannie ARE the market. I don’t care that you argue that this is positive or negative, but you can’t argue against the fact that without F&F, there is no national mortgage market, it just doesn’t exist. So we trust our legislature to rebuild a completely new market, from scratch? Because I don’t. It’s going to be rebuilt by lobbyists and the banks that bankroll them, and it’s not going to be pro-consumer. What we end up with isn’t going to be what we want, or what makes sense, it’s going to be what *they* want … and will continue to receive the full faith and credit of the US Government as guarantor.
woops moderated
grim (4)-
Without Phony & Fraudy, what will take their place as the catchall financial garbage bin/bailout vehicle?
#4…I think folks get caught up in the current frenzy of the moment….the bailout ruined the country…except most of the money was paid back….Bernanke is ruining the country…but the next guy will be worse….
6 – Are you talking about the Federal Reserve, or the GSEs?
Harp 3? Don’t even bother now.
Anybody else seen the impeach Obama protestors hanging out on the overpasses?
Protesters want Obama’s impeachment, say he’s ‘just the head of the pimple’
http://www.nj.com/morris/index.ssf/2013/08/protesters_obamas_the_head_of_the_pimple.html
From CNBC:
US mortgage applications rise, but so do rates
Potential buyers crept back into the U.S. housing market last week as applications for mortgages edged up, even though rates resumed their ascent, data from an industry group showed on Wednesday.
The Mortgage Bankers Association said its seasonally adjusted index of mortgage application activity, which includes both refinancing and home purchase demand, rose 0.2 percent in the week ended Aug 2.
The gauge of loan requests for home purchases, a leading indicator of home sales, was stronger, adding 0.7 percent after falling in four of the past five weeks.
New quinnipiac poll out that says Booker will win the Democratic primary and take the general election over Republican front runner Steve Lonegan by 54 percent to 29 percent in a general election matchup.
From Bloomberg:
Manhattan Homes Under $3 Million Never Harder to Buy
With $1 million to spend and no need for a mortgage, Laiyan Wong expected to be able to easily buy a two-bedroom apartment on Manhattan’s Upper West Side. What she didn’t anticipate was how much competition she’d have.
Wong viewed more than 10 apartments in two months, gradually increasing her budget to $1.5 million as it became clear that others were looking for similar properties amid a plummeting supply of homes in her price range.
“I made four bids and was outbid each time,” said Wong, a trader at an investment bank, who eventually got a mortgage and paid $1.6 million for a condo that was about to go under contract to someone else. “You have to be willing to make a decision in a few minutes and overpay the asking price.”
Manhattanites with budgets that would buy mansions in most of America are discovering it’s tough to find even a two-bedroom apartment in New York as the inventory of homes shrinks. The number of available units for less than $3 million — those generally considered nonluxury — has plunged by the most on record, creating a shortage that’s unlikely to be alleviated any time soon as developers focus on ultra high-end condos that have set price records by wealthy investors.
Listings for nonluxury apartments, encompassing about 90 percent of the Manhattan market, have fallen by more than 36 percent year-over-year in each of the last three quarters, the biggest declines in 12 years of recordkeeping, according to data from New York appraiser Miller Samuel Inc. By contrast, inventory in the top 10 percent of the market by price fell only 3.9 percent in the second quarter from a year earlier.
…
“For the bulk of the market, the 90 percent, it’s probably the most challenging period for a buyer in the 25-plus years that I’ve been observing the market,” Jonathan Miller, president of Miller Samuel, said in an interview.
[9] Brian
Doubtless these people are already being slammed on MSNBC for using racist slurs. Requires a bit of a leap for the slur but Maddow and Hayes are up to the task.
[198] [prior] Fabius
Replied on prior thread. And has it been seven years? Seems longer.
Fannie and Freddie dont product anything and since it is just paper pushing dont employ many folks.
GM employs one million people almost if you count jobs at all its suppliers and dealers whose job is dependent on GM.
Plus Remember WWII, if your country does not have a strong automotive/Plane industry you are sunk.
Japan and Germany are our mortal enemies. Do you really think in WWII we can call up Mercedes, BMW, Toyota and Honda to sell us trucks and tanks so we can attack them.
Any Jewish American Taxpayer who was against the bailout of Chrysler has a screw loose. The reliable, cheap to fix 4 wheel drive go anywhere Jeep and tanks they made were a big part of us winning the war.
What is fannie and freddie doing for us? Nothing except saving folks a few bps off a home purchase.
grim says:
August 7, 2013 at 6:24 am
Ok, let me take the counterpoint all the way to the edge here.
I find it silly that we choose to bail out a failing GM, and pat ourselves on the back at what a good job we did saving an industry.
But at the same time, feel the need to dismantle the very profitable Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
re# 3 – bond pull back will continue to make mortgage rates shoot up. Obama is too late.
re #4 – Grimm Fannie and Freddie no longer pays taxes. They also booked their latest profits on massive one time carry forward losses. Not to say they won’t be profitable moving forward but they are going to be profitable at the taxpayers expense.
Just remember the GSEe are an accountants dream, because the taxes that Fannie isn’t going to pay in the future count as an asset NOW to its current owner Uncle Sam, so they get to declare profits because they don’t pay taxes.
I wish I could do that….
re # 4 and # 17 – Also think about this one Grim. How should the accountants treat the Fannie and Freddie MBS purchases by the Fed? Is it a massive money printing cash infusion of 1.2 trillion dollars so far and still going strong. Nobody can really call it open market purchases.
Is it an intra company’s loan being Fed and GSe are part of the government? or is it a subordinated loan? or is it an investment?
It is what it is a bail-in..with all of our money…the fact that they book “profits” on MBS that the open market can not or would not purchase is all a sham.
On top of what JJ said in #15, which is really important and overide a lot of issues. The main thing is that you are not an impartial, neutral observer. You make your livelihood off RE, which means you have a vested interest in a pro-F & F view.
grim says:
August 7, 2013 at 6:24 am
Ok, let me take the counterpoint all the way to the edge here.
I find it silly that we choose to bail out a failing GM, and pat ourselves on the back at what a good job we did saving an industry.
But at the same time, feel the need to dismantle the very profitable Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
You make your livelihood off RE
I do not, do not make that mistake. Taking into account all the time I’ve devoted to this, on net, this has been a losing endeavor for me. Looking back, I’d have done better taking a job paying minimum wage. Not that I would have, because it wouldn’t have been nearly as interesting and nowhere near as enjoyable. My ongoing livelihood is not in any way dependent on my RE income.
re # 19 – I think Grim is mistaken. He actually thinks they are profitable in the sense that they are a a public company that pays taxes and has to raise funds on the open market would be. The “Government” which is what Fannie and Freddie are is not a for profit company. The fact that they are spinning them as profitable is a sham.
HAMP/HARP have both shown folks re-default on mortgages even with lower rates.
Reduce their rate from 5 to 3 and they are still the same amount underwater and same amount in debt.
Banks/Govts perhaps should knock 50K off loan balance and reduce the rate. Make 50K payable back if sell before ten years or if they fall behind again. Also make 50K a personal liability not just backed by house. Take their cars, furniture, first born if they dont pay back.
Sandy areas Chrisitie is giving middle class lower middle class 50K free to buy a house for a first time buyer in a primary residence. We had a six year correction, sandy knocked 10% more off homes and then folks get 50K off. They buy the home and instantly up 50k, it requires a downpayment and once they do some repairs it is worth even more. By year two they have 100K equity. That is how you keep people from defaulting. Give them positive equity.
Juice Box says:
August 7, 2013 at 9:03 am
re# 3 – bond pull back will continue to make mortgage rates shoot up. Obama is too late.
22 – HAMP is garbage, it’s a failure. HARP however, has been a resounding success.
Why? Because HAMP was focused on trying to make unaffordable homes less unaffordable. The focus of HARP was to allow refinancing of underwater loans for current, qualified, borrowers.
#23..HARP, reminds me of quote:
“You can always count on Americans to do the right thing – after they’ve tried everything else.”
Winston Churchill
Also think about this one Grim. How should the accountants treat the Fannie and Freddie MBS purchases by the Fed?
This is irrelevant to the discussion since the ongoing ability for the Fed to purchase assets is not part of the GSE wind down discussion. This is not going away. Do I need to remind you about how much trash was purchased at the Fed’s drive by window in NYC during the financial collapse? A bum could have pulled up to the Fed with a bag full of soda cans.
You don’t think the Fed will do the same thing with the major players in a private mortgage securitization market? Of course they will. The MBS purchases would have happened just the same, public or private.
I would vote for:
no government bailouts
no deposit insurance
no government underwriting of credit risk for anyone (TBTF banks, Mortgages, green/crony companies).
no government fiat money or central banking
26 – Conceptually, I agree. Realistically? We might as well ask for unicorns that shit skittles too. Ain’t going to happen.
Also get rid of the Mortgage Interest Deduction and Property Tax Deduction.
Mortgage Interest deduction is welfare and food stamps for the rich. More money is spent each year on the govt handout of the mortgage deduction then all the money spent on welfare and food stamps combined
Ragnar says:
August 7, 2013 at 9:53 am
I would vote for:
no government bailouts
no deposit insurance
no government underwriting of credit risk for anyone (TBTF banks, Mortgages, green/crony companies).
no government fiat money or central banking
Conceptually, I’d love to see Libertarians get on a boat and relocate to Somalia to start a new life there. Realistically, their main problem is grossly underestimating a desire for safety (both physical and financial) by an average person.
[14] redux
After a cup of coffee, I went back and reread my responses to Fabius. Seen in the cold, clear light of day, his initial reply to me wasn’t patently snarky. Yet I jumped on it as if it was.
Given that I had earlier commented on the need for civil discourse with respect to Michael, I felt I was unduly testy. If I am going to hold others to my standards, I should hold myself to them as well. Also not comment whilst busy and sleep-deprived.
Back to work.
The reliable, cheap to fix 4 wheel drive go anywhere Jeep and tanks they made were a big part of us winning the war
Feels to me like typical American “exceptionalism” at work here. Common misconseption is that America “won” the war. Most of the rest of the world believes, and probably rightly so, that Russia won WWII. Unless you mean “won” as in, “we escaped destruction of our manufacturing base and then provided goods and services to countries while they picked up the shattered pieces of their ruined lives”.
Grim, I believe that the real issue that you are failing to account for in this F&F topic is that the taxpayer is not just funding the GSEs through bulk MBS purchases they are also still on the hook if these companies get in trouble again. We assume all the risk but the GSEs get the reward. Either privatize the profits AND risk or make the GSEs a government organization.
I think that there isn’t much political will for subsuming the GSEs back into the government so they are going to dissolve them and let the market price in the risk.
Here’s a property tax appeal question…….
I live in a townhouse complex of about 20 units. They’re pretty identical although some might be 100 square feet larger than others and some have added an additional bath in the basement. The problems is some of my neighbors appealed last year and while I was once on the low side of the developement, I’m now on the high side as they’re paying anywhere from $1,800 to $600 less than I do. My appeal is next week and it seems the town is going to fight my appeal to match my neighbors with comps around town to say what I’m paying is legit and they don’t care that I pay more than my neighbors even if they have the same exact house or even improved with an extra bath. Aside from comps, what else can I use as ammo next week?
Somalia is an anarchist state. Libertarians would turn Somalia into a paradise in a few short decades. Perhaps we could ship the natives to an abbot district for proper education. It’s for the children remember.
26/28
Get rid of Title 26 and Amendment 16
Get rid of the property tax deduction?
Why should I have to pay a substantial tax on my income, and then have to pay another substantial tax on property using a dollar that I’ve already paid taxes on?
How many times do you want to tax the same dollar?
Am I the only one scared sh-tless about the prospect of Larry Summers as next Fed chair?
Why does there even need to be a national market for mortgage lending? Lending is lending…and it will always exist with or without a government backstop. Everyone wants returns on their savings and it doesn’t happen without lending.
Eliminate the MID – I’ll set up a corporation, sell my house to my corporation, re-mortgage it through the corporation, lease it back to myself, and deduct the mortgage interest through the company as standard business expenses… Bonus here is I get to depreciate the shit out of it too.
Why should corporations get the ability to deduct interest as business expenses, but homeowners can’t do the same with a mortgage?
How about we close the loopholes that allow for mortgage interest deductions on second homes, vacation homes, boats and RV’s?
I think both of my dead Grandpas who fought in Europe in WWII want to kick your a$$.
31.nicholas says:
August 7, 2013 at 10:26 am
The reliable, cheap to fix 4 wheel drive go anywhere Jeep and tanks they made were a big part of us winning the war
Feels to me like typical American “exceptionalism” at work here. Common misconseption is that America “won” the war. Most of the rest of the world believes, and probably rightly so, that Russia won WWII. Unless you mean “won” as in, “we escaped destruction of our manufacturing base and then provided goods and services to countries while they picked up the shattered pieces of their ruined lives”.
Grim, I believe that the real issue that you are failing to account for in this F&F topic is that the taxpayer is not just funding the GSEs through bulk MBS purchases they are also still on the hook if these companies get in trouble again. We assume all the risk but the GSEs get the reward. Either privatize the profits AND risk or make the GSEs a government organization.
I think that there isn’t much political will for subsuming the GSEs back into the government so they are going to dissolve them and let the market price in the risk.
“their main problem is grossly underestimating a desire for safety (both physical and financial) by an average person.”
What do you mean?
Don’t forget to ask Obama your housing questions today kids. 1PM ET.
http://www.zillow.com/whitehouse/
39
Sorry the truth hurts Brian.
You are hands down the most annoying blogger I have ever met. It was a joke Joyce. Je$us.
I think a lot of people got suckered into buying by thinking all the interest and property taxes would be deductible when making the calculations when in fact, that’s only the case if you had other deductions bringing you over the hump on the Schedule A. s
Je$us. I like that!
I think grim is the only blogger here.
#45
Sounds like something a college student would put on a blog to be clever about the state of organized religion. (I know Brian was dodging the filter, but come on, it’s so perfect)
I think that there isn’t much political will for subsuming the GSEs back into the government so they are going to dissolve them and let the market price in the risk.
Let what market price in the risk? That’s my point, the GSEs *are* the market. There is essentially no market for non-agency MBS, let alone a market with sufficient liquidity to support the current national mortgage market.
Larry Summers is like a bad penny.
See if there are any errors in your property tax record. For example, maybe they assesed you as having a fireplace, when you don’t. Or, maybe the square footage calculation is wrong…etc.
32.Dan in debt says:
August 7, 2013 at 10:33 am
Here’s a property tax appeal question…….
I live in a townhouse complex of about 20 units. They’re pretty identical although some might be 100 square feet larger than others and some have added an additional bath in the basement. The problems is some of my neighbors appealed last year and while I was once on the low side of the developement, I’m now on the high side as they’re paying anywhere from $1,800 to $600 less than I do. My appeal is next week and it seems the town is going to fight my appeal to match my neighbors with comps around town to say what I’m paying is legit and they don’t care that I pay more than my neighbors even if they have the same exact house or even improved with an extra bath. Aside from comps, what else can I use as ammo next week?
The GSEs are the entire market because the entire market is a sham.
Let what market price in the risk? That’s my point, the GSEs *are* the market. There is essentially no market for non-agency MBS, let alone a market with sufficient liquidity to support the current national mortgage market.
Maybe we need to go back to banks servicing their own loans.
Remember the days back during the crash when Paulson would start babbling about covered bonds as the way out of the GSE morass?
Quaint.
The GSEs will never go. They are essential to destroying whatever concept of sound money still exists in Amerika.
I don’t think there’s an error in what I was originally assessed. My issue now is that we practically have the same units but some now are as low as $9,100 and go up to $10,800 and there’s no rhyme or reason for the differences now.
Interesting response to the spate of Montclair shootings. It really speaks directly to the white guilt I’ve been describing.
POSTED BY spotontarget | August 07, 2013 @ 10:08 am
MISSION STREET MADNESS
The drug related violence around Mission Street is partially a full-circle payback from our own “liberal” passivity. It was created from the 40-year climate of political correctness and a continued unwillingness to see and confront our underlying social realities.
This needs to change. A new, updated progressive-liberal operating philosophy is required that starts to turn the situation around. We need to stop seeing everyone today as a victim and instead set-up interventions that require individuals in need to become personally responsible. We need to provide a real path to help people pull themselves up. Many of those solutions are known. What’s missing is the will to begin to implement them.
Today, everyone from the police, to the schools, to our community leaders have been pacified into accepting our current social reality – if only it stays relatively quiet. We essentially live with the blindness not seeing or trying to stop the madness around us, even when we know some of those problems are at crisis levels: youth unemployment, gang violence, drugs and and an increasing “moral” acceptance of teen pregnancy among parents and grandparents of low SES populations. There effectively remains government support still promoting teen pregnancy with on-going payments to single-parent families having more children. And this is despite the dead end cycle of dependency and despondency created as a result.
Is it any wonder some living in what are clearly borderline ghetto conditions around Mission Street with little hope to break out — slip into a culture of drugs and violence? Is is any wonder that an entire chunk of our local population still just glides through school today knowing their long term prospects are slim?
Conversely, look what happened before when the police previously stepped up more aggressive street confrontations and harassment against those with suspected criminal behavior in the 4th ward. They were accused of being racist and discriminatory for preemptive actions — hypocritically by some leaders now who will no doubt take the lead trying to turn the current level of violence around. But while more police action is certainly needed short-term at this time, it remains only a band-aid.
We spend millions educationally in Montclair today on special ed and programs trying to close the racial achievement gap. Yet, we make few real demands to follow-up and do little or nothing with the parents of those kids that need the most help when their low SES children fall behind. Do we “require” these children to attend special tutoring help during lunch or after school to keep them off the streets longer and away from a potentially dis-functional setting? Do we make demands on their parents or care-givers with a real remediation plan for the family as a “condition” of receiving special tax-payer help. No, we are legally prevented and PC intimidated from this kind of real social demand and involvement — all the time spending millions of tax-payer dollars to just mitigate the end results — from prisons to antipoverty programs.
Have you ever gone down to the Essex County government building and seen the resulting cycle of dependency and defeatism among those collecting their weekly checks? The continuing underlying social-worker message to these folks from the non-profit poverty pimp community and government workers being sustained is that everyone is a “victim”.
And to an extent they still are. They are trapped in a cycle of program dependency with a lack of skills and family support to help them break out. Why? Partially because they’ve been allowed to go through our school systems with continued “passes” even though they didn’t really have the skills to cope. Again, it was our liberal political correctness over the years afraid to offend and really deal with the populations who weren’t cutting it. This is now paying us back big time. We passed the problems on rather than actually confront them.
Yes, Montclair will no doubt deal in the short term stopping the violence and ultimately create safer 4th ward streets. But what are we going to do then about the underlying conditions that created the upsurge in violence?
A new liberal-progressive operating philosophy is needed. From our churches to our schools, a shift in the underlying mind-set has to take place. We must focus on individual responsibility today, not victim-hood. However, this should be handled not the way conservatives and the right-wing want it — just throwing people to the wind. We need instead to provide real ladders and real programs for those willing to pull themselves up. At the same time we must make demands that they actually start doing it with penalties and downsides for individuals and families who do not at least try.
There is an abundance of research on effective programs and policies that have actually generated results. They need to be sourced and implemented. The cycle has to be broken.
When our underlying philosophy shifts from a PC, coddling mindset that treats everyone as a victim dealing with today’s social issues — some of those symptoms and resulting negative behaviors on the street – will start to change.
Grim, regarding #38…what are the loopholes that allow for mortgage interest deductions on 2nd/vacation homes? I need to hop on that if true.
grim says:
August 7, 2013 at 10:45 am
Get rid of the property tax deduction?
I dont get to deduct a penny of my property taxes I pay on two places as I am in AMT.
Also I dont have a penny to deduct in mortgage interest.
Yet I own two places. Buying a place should NEVER be for tax write off.
Funny NO-ONE pays a sustantial tax on his income who deducts the property tax. In NY/NJ unless you are on welfare or unemployed any married man with multiple kids who can afford a house is in AMT>
Why should I have to pay a substantial tax on my income, and then have to pay another substantial tax on property using a dollar that I’ve already paid taxes on?
How many times do you want to tax the same dollar?
“Buying a place should NEVER be for tax write off. ”
I wholeheartedly disagree.
No loophole up to one million mortgage is deductable. And it can be first or second home or combo of both.
However, I paid cash for my vacation/rental place recently as you pay a 1/4 point higher on a second home on mortgage, I had to put down 20-40% on a second home and the closing fees, appraisal, bank loans, mortgage recording tax were a few grand.
I only wanted to borrow 150K and at 4% that is only 600 a month payment which 40% is tax write off or $240 a month. I also had to pay like 10K more to buy house as owner gave a discount for cash.
So it would cost me an extra 15K grand to save an extra $240 a month. And remember that deduction falls each month as you pay principal.
Buying a Hamptons House for 1.4 million when you live an a rent stablized apt in NYC and make a lot of money a SLAM dunk. Buying a beach place under around 350K not so much.
Plus there is no tax write off on investment properties if you are in AMT. I have to carry forward losses till I sell so does not help me now.
ccb223 says:
August 7, 2013 at 12:12 pm
Grim, regarding #38…what are the loopholes that allow for mortgage interest deductions on 2nd/vacation homes? I need to hop on that if true.
I believe the tax write off is icing on the cake. But muni bonds, investment properties etc, stuff you have to look at the investment.
Honestly, want to avoid taxes buy high quality non dividend paying stocks like Berkshire and never sell and pass it to kids in estate. There basis becomes the day they inherit it. Boom.
So I have not done my taxes yet for 2012 how exactly am I getting a write off on the beach place?
Costs me 1k a month to own. I rent it for around 6k a month in summer, 2 k a month in winter. It sits empty around two months a year tops. So all in all 30K rent I should be able to get a year.
Libtard in the City says:
August 7, 2013 at 12:19 pm
“Buying a place should NEVER be for tax write off. ”
I wholeheartedly disagree.
Isn’t that the title of a Michael Moore movie?
Libtard in the City says:
August 7, 2013 at 11:02 am
Je$us. I like that!
Finally we have a valuable use for social media:
And the summer’s biggest schmuck is…
It was no contest when Post readers were asked in an online poll to vote for this summer’s “biggest schmuck.”
The runaway winner, capturing more than two-thirds of the ballots cast, was serial sexting mayoral candidate Anthony Weiner.
Things got heated and personal Tuesday between mayoral candidates Anthony Weiner and George McDonald as they attended an AARP forum at Hunter College.
In the latest episode of Weiner not being able to keep his foot out of his mouth, the peter tweeter went after his elder GOP opponent George McDonald yesterday, sarcastically referring to him as “grandpa” at, of all places, a forum sponsored by the AARP.
The standoff started just before the debate, when the 48-year-old Weiner put his hands on the 69-year-old McDonald’s chest as he walked by, possibly to say hello.
McDonald quickly flew into Weiner’s grill.
“Don’t put your hands on me ever again,” McDonald growled, as the two stood nose-to-nose.
“What’s gonna happen if I do?” Weiner asked, then continued: “You have anger issues.”
“I don’t have anger issues,” McDonald insisted.
“Yes, you do, grandpa,” Weiner appears to say, according to muffled video of the exchange captured on NY1.
Alex Rodriguez, who garnered a little more than 20 percent of the vote, returned to the diamond this week on the same day his 211-game suspension for violating the Joint Drug Agreement and Basic Agreement for his connection to the Biogenesis PED scandal.
In an amazingly tonedeaf interview this week after being handed the ban, A-Rod insisted “I’m fighting for my life…I have to defend myself. If I don’t defend myself, no one else will.”
Things got heated and personal Tuesday between mayoral candidates Anthony Weiner and George McDonald as they attended an AARP forum at Hunter College.
The embattled Yankees slugger is allowed to play while he appeals Bud Selig’s ruling.
Simon Cowell made headlines last week after it was revealed is the baby daddy of married New York socialite Lauren Silverman. The sharp-tongued reality TV mogul, who won 7.9 percent of the vote, has not spoken directly about the scandal. Silverman is reportedly a little more than 10 weeks along with Cowell’s first child.
Coming up last (albeit a distinction that the former love gov probably won’t mind) is current comptroller candidate Eliot Spitzer. The infamous Client Number 9, winning just under 5 percent of the vote, resigned in disgrace as governor in 2008s after it was revealed he hired high-price call girls while in office.
libtard [56]
There are 3 ways to break the cycle of teenagers having babies to get benefits, all of them unacceptable to the majority but for different reasons. (1)Stop providing the benefits unless mother works or does community service 40 hrs/week (you’ll spend more on child care than on the benefits); (2) give (limited) welfare benefits to the adults w/o children, but with very little increase for the 1st child, and zero increase for the consequent children; (3) give benefits directly to the children (feed them 3x a day and provide clothing, etc.) and not to the mothers.
joyce [40]
I mean that people want guarantees (e.g. strongly prefer DB (w/PBGC cover) to DC retirement plans, wouldn’t open bank accounts without FDIC protection, like their Medicare, don’t mind wasting extra hour in the airport for TSA screening, etc.), and despite general dislike of the govt, trust it to provide them.
Just back from glorious vacation with no internet, limited cell coverage, and a pact not to turn on the news.
Lib so their solution to broken government programs are more government programs. Color me surprised. At least he had the balls to challenge the PC police that must have gotten him banned.
Guys, I told you I was open-minded.
I would like to thank you for opening my eyes to the reality of how I was wrong, on many fronts, when it comes to economic policy and government policy. Problem was, I was looking at policy with emotion and my focus was on immediate consequences. I was not looking at the big picture or long-term consequences of govt policy. If I had not come on this blog and participated in the discussion, I would still have the same philosophy that I assumed was based on complete logic. I truly thank you for taking the time to help educate me; ESP com, ragnor, and libtard (btw I am highly educated but that doesn’t mean I can’t learn anything new…college provided me the ability to stay open minded, use critical thinking skills, and realize there are always two sides to every story or idea).
I believe that some services like police, military, food inspection, EPA, and ESP education should remain in the public domain. (Notice no fire dept, that should be on a volunteer basis, I don’t believe in using tax dollars to pay someone to sleep, so they can have a 3 day work week and get another job). I also believe those high police salaries should be lowered and instead spent on increasing teacher pay to attract the best candidates.
Also, decriminalize drug offenses. This will stop the money being wasted on a massive police force at the local level, take away the dea at the federal level, and at the same time take away organized crime’s ability to make tons of untaxed money on the trade. You also will take away the need for so many prosecutors, lawyers, and judges. Lets not forget, it will also take away from spending money on keeping these individuals in jail. If Abbott districts are considered a waste of money at 17,000 a pupil, how are people not complaining about having to pay 30,000 to 50,000 per pupil in jail? You see my point of trying to educate these Abbott kids? If you don’t, you end paying for them the rest of their lives through welfare or jail time. Like I said, I’m looking at the big picture and long-term consequences. Not the immediate effect.
I now realize how frivously our govt wastes our money. They have good intentions, but are highly misguided. For example, the govt should not be in the biz of loaning money. You are just picking winners at the expense of others. If the individual or corporation is not able to achieve credit through private industry, then the govt surely should not be there loaning the money. Why? If the individual or corporation was credit worthy and had a good idea, they would have no problem getting a loan through private industry. The private industry would be salivating at the mouth to give them a loan. When this individual or corp turn to the govt for assistance, it means it is too risky to use our tax dollars.
Almost all subsidies, create winners at the expense of losers. They have good intentions but when looking at the long-term effect, it’s counterproductive.
I’m still in the process of learning and growing intellectually every day. Don’t be afraid to critize my thoughts, it only helps me to think and grow as a person. As long as you stay open minded, mistakes make you grow. Thank you guys for challenging my thoughts and beliefs.
59- I agree. I bought my first house, a multi in Clifton with the intentions of getting some of my tax money back. I was single at the time and getting raped. I saw this as a way out of all the taxes I was paying at the time.
Whether I now agree with the mortgage tax deduction, is irrelevant. It was there and I bought the house based on an investment to collect rent and lower my taxes.
Grim- I agree with you on Fannie and Freddie. I don’t want private bankers getting a free hook up. It will not be truly privatized because it will be backed by tax dollars, which is a joke. They get to make the money off the loans, yet the risk will be backed by tax dollars? Not going down this road again. That’s the problem with this country. Private industry isn’t really private, the govt (tax dollars) is helping them one way or another. Complete joke. Capitalism my ass. Pardon my language.
Michael,
Just wondering who will be manning the volunteer fire stations in Newark and Irvington? Who will train them and keep them ready for service?
Under the same logic, why not just have volunteer public school teachers in Newark and Irvington rather than the paid ones? How much lower can the dropout rates or test scores get? Maybe the results would be better if their parents ran the classes at a third of the cost then what’s going on now whether or not they have college or master’s degrees.
A big reason the GSE’s are profitable at all is because they have the “implicit” government guarantee. As we know, there is almost no market for non-agency mortgages because no one wants the credit risk. FNMA/FHMLC get this credit for free. Of course they are going to make a pile of money. If they were stand-alone entities with no gty at this point, mortgage rates 100-300bps higher, and the market would be a hot mess.
Even JC Penney could make billions if you gave it a government guarantee.
67 – What’s your position on Gun control in NJ?
Ok thanks. So how does that relate to libertarians again?
cobbler says:
August 7, 2013 at 12:33 pm
joyce [40]
I mean that people want guarantees (e.g. strongly prefer DB (w/PBGC cover) to DC retirement plans, wouldn’t open bank accounts without FDIC protection, like their Medicare, don’t mind wasting extra hour in the airport for TSA screening, etc.), and despite general dislike of the govt, trust it to provide them.
I was referring to posts 26 and 27
It sounds like you’re saying the position of having a small govt is not tenable due to the fact that you think the average person wants whatever amount of govt services. Is that correct? If yes, that is a system that doesn’t protect the minority’s rights. Are you OK with that?
71-Dan- thanks for pointing that out, didn’t realize that no one would volunteer in the ghetto, but you are right. What about the other cities overpaying for firemen like clifton or englewood? Those cities still have good parts and are not ghettos.
74 – I didn’t read his comments as arguing they were right or wrong philosophically. Cobbler is just saying the average Joe doesn’t agree with the Libertarian views and that they outnumber Liberterian minded people.
Repeating — call for interest of a NJRER GTG in or around Morris Co. (venue TBD) the latter half of August. All are welcome, regardless of expressed political opinions (face-to-face discussions of the topic tend to be lively and more enjoyable than the online versions).
Lib, does the 27th or 29th work better for you than the 22d?
73-Brian- Gun control debate is a joke and complete waste of time. Even if you outlawed them, you would still be dealing with it. (Like the joke of a war on drugs…what a waste of time and money). Since the day guns were invented, they are here to stay. (until they invent a better weapon). Only thing gun control does is take weapons out of the hands of people who really need them to defend themselves and gives a complete advantage to the people who don’t follow laws.
It’s what my “philosophical awakening” has taught me. Gun control sounds great in theory, just like the war on drugs, but are disasters in the long-term consequences.
81-* long-term consequences dept.
In a rush with writing that I hardly have time to fix my grammatical errors.
Trouble is you can only write off up to 25k a year on an investment property. Since I am in AMT I cant even write that off.
Only write off is the depreciation offsets the rental income. But then again I could just have bought munis and done the same.
I bought house only because I like it, cool to have and after a housing collapse and Sandy, downside is limited. Also starting October 2013 on renewals NFIP is jacking non-primary beach home flood insurance through the roof. It will go up 25% a year ever year till it reaches full market rate. Even a beach house with a relatively dirt cheap $900 a year policy that should be $9,000 a year full risk policy at 25% a year in ten years that flood policy will be crazy high. Uppers in condos where condo manages flood it wont matter if it is an investment property or vacation home. The rate is the rate.
I think folks will be surprised how quickly rates will rise. Funny folks who buy pre-october a cheap flood house have a good run till the 25% hikes price them out, Folks who buy in 2014 on day one it is full price.
Michael says:
August 7, 2013 at 1:19 pm
59- I agree. I bought my first house, a multi in Clifton with the intentions of getting some of my tax money back. I was single at the time and getting raped. I saw this as a way out of all the taxes I was paying at the time.
Or Montclair. You should see what they pay their firemen.
When the financial crisis occurred and Montclair’s tax revenues went down, someone finally looked at the MFD’s finances. It appears that rather than move the workers shifts around to cover for someone who was sick or on vacation, they simply paid the firemen overtime to cover their original shift as well as the absentee’s shift. No doubt, the firemen closer to retirement took most of the overtime to juice their pension. I think it saved nearly a million dollars annually. The recurring theme always remains…when the government is involved, accountability goes out the window. Why wouldn’t it? Without a profit motive or the fear of losing one’s job, the workers focus almost entirely on increasing their compensation and not on the service they are being hired to provide. A lot of people are against privatization, but competition does create alternatives and a focus on efficiency.
Anon, I would try, but will be out of the country the second half of August.
Michael -hmm, this change of perspective seems to have happened all too fast. Maybe think it over longer. Even better, I suggest reading the novel Atlas Shrugged. By the time you finish you should either love it or hate it.
Legalizing drugs (excluding minors) is something I’d think liberals and lovers of liberty should both support. Yet politicians don’t want to touch it. Legalize drugs and suddenly selling drugs would become less remunerative than working at McDonald’s.
Moose…the 29th would be ideal as Rutger’s will be losing to Fresno State at 10:30pm on ESPN. Maybe stay at the bar until halftime. I head out to Cincy with the family at 1pm the next day so I could sleep in temporarily. Will be flying thanks to the casino. Gator would have to approve or be willing to come along :P
When I spoke to one cranky republican at my daughter’s kindergarden orientation this summer, he was telling me that even in towns like mine that have volunteer fire departments the towns are still on the hook for pensions. Anyone know if that is true?
These municipal pension agreements aren’t worth the asswipe they’re written on.
Got Friskies?
Tilt. Game over. Default. Reset.
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/pensions/epbam/pensions/enrollments/exemptfire.htm
Municipal Volunteer Firefighters
Exempt Certificate and Conditions
——————————————————————————–
Police and firefighters must meet stringent age criteria in order to be eligible for enrollment in the PFRS. Those who have passed their 35th birthday cannot be enrolled in the PFRS. Those over the age of 35 who are employees of the State or of a county can still be hired in PFRS titles but are enrolled in the PERS. However, State law prohibits the hiring of municipal police officers and fire fighters over age 35.
There are two exceptions for municipal firefighters:
N.J.S.A. 40A:14-44 allows individuals who are over age 35 in a “part-paid” fire department (some of the department’s firefighters are paid, the others are volunteers), to be hired to paid positions up to age 40 as long as they served for at least two years as a volunteer in the same fire department immediately prior to the appointment. They are eligible for enrollment in the PERS, not the PFRS. See the PERS Enrollment Guide for instructions on enrolling these individuals into the PERS.
This link is intended to adress the second exception to the age limit for municipal firefighters. N.J.S.A 40A:14-56 allows individuals who are over age 35 in a “part-paid” fire department (some of the department’s firefighters are paid, the others are volunteers) to be appointed to PFRS eligible positions, up to age 45, if they are able to obtain an “Exempt Firefighter Certificate”. Obtaining the “Exempt Firefighter Certificate” requires such individuals to meet a number of conditions, which are listed below. Please note that individuals who qualify for this exemption are eligible for enrollment in the PERS, not PFRS. See the PERS Enrollment Guide for instructions on enrolling these individuals into the PERS.
Conditions Which Must Be Met by Municipal Volunteer Firefighters Who Are over Age 35, in Order to Be Granted an “Exempt Certificate”
The fire department or force is composed of both paid and volunteer firefighters (“part-paid”);
The firefighter is not under age 18 or older than 45 years of age;
The firefighter is of good moral character at the time of appointment;
The firefighter performed as a volunteer firefighter for at least seven years in a department or force that employs paid firefighters;
The firefighter participated in at least 60% of fire duty at the location.
If a firefighter, otherwise eligible for an “exempt certificate”, was unable to complete seven years of service due to injury or injuries that proved disabling, the firefighter may still be eligible for an “exempt certificate” if he or she had participated in 60% of fire duty over a period of five years.
If a firefighter had service in more than one municipal fire department, and if the aggregate service (excluding concurrent service) totals seven years or more, the firefighter will be eligible for an “exempt certificate” from the department or force in the municipality in which he or she is participating at the time of becoming eligible. (NJSA 40A:14-56)
The “Exempt Firefighter Certificate” allows a volunteer firefighter over age 35 to be appointed to PFRS eligible positions in the municipality where he or she was a volunteer. The member is eligible to join the PERS upon appointment to the position.
The Exempt Firefighter Certificate
The following sample “Exempt Firefighter Certificate” represents the information
If I’m reading this right, it’s only possible if they are appointed to a paid position in the future.
88.Theo says:
August 7, 2013 at 2:29 pm
When I spoke to one cranky republican at my daughter’s kindergarden orientation this summer, he was telling me that even in towns like mine that have volunteer fire departments the towns are still on the hook for pensions. Anyone know if that is true?
There is a stipend/pension program…
http://www.northjersey.com/bogota/052512_Bogota_considers_referendum_on_stipends_for_fire_rescue_volunteers.html?c=y&page=1
Is that the same Michael? I smell an imposter. just kidding. I appreciate your open mindness.
Now, to reply to this remark:In NY/NJ unless you are on welfare or unemployed any married man with multiple kids who can afford a house is in AMT.
My reply is that those same individuals must be idiots, or have no time in their lives. They apparently don’t own businesses. Because if they did, they would never be on AMT. JJ, you may be on Wall Street. But you don’t think Main Street.
85- I have already read Atlas Shrugged. She makes great pts. My critique would be with the fact that, she gives too much praise and credit to the people at the top. People like Thomas Edison, although genius, are nothing without the amazing workers working in his labs. People like Edison, fail to acknowledge workers playing a major role in their success. If we asked Edison, he would credit his success to his amazing characteristics, as opposed to the truth, great scientific minds working under him.
97- lol I promise that it is me. I might have to pinch myself to make sure this is not a dream.
Did anyone catch that video of the thugs beating the boy on the bus in Florida? Media seems to leave out that the boy getting beat was white. If the roles were switched, and it was three white boys beating on an African American boy with a white bus driver doing nothing. What kind of fun would the media have with that? You can bet sharpton and Jackson would use that as a talking block for the next 40 years. Scammers.
Mistake again—*nothing, what kind of fun would the media have with that?
Hey does anyone know how much one million umbrellas insurance should cost
Dan 32 – You have no standing to argue comparable assessments – i.e. my neighbors have a better deal than me – you only have standing to argue comparable sales. What did townhouses in your community sell for during the usable sale period this year. If those sales show that your assessment is fair, then you will lose. Your neighbors may have jumped on comps for last year that are not usable this year. If they did, and you didn’t appeal then, then unfortunately you may have missed the boat.
The system is sucky and unfair in a lot of ways.
JJ – Personal Umbrella for $1m is $145, I just did it two months ago, commercial umbrella you need to get a quote.
I think Michael is Pat.
104 – Juice
I think you misunderstood. He is clearly asking for the cost to insure “one million umbrellas”.
to Theo -#88
The answer is YES, BUT – They are called LOSAPs. Length of Service Awards Programs.
They are 457 Deferred Comp Plans. If an active volunteer member meets the year of active service requirement, a LOSAP mustprovide a benefit between the minimum contribution of $100 and maximum contribution of$1,150 per year. While the maximum amount is set by statute, once a LOSAP is adopted, if
authorized by the enabling referendum it is subject to periodic increases that are tied to theconsumer price index (N.J.S.A. 40A:14-185f). The Division annually certifies the permitted maximum amount.
More of an expense is the fact that a lot of towns have switch to monthly stipend, running up $500+ a month. A civically minded 18 yrs old can do well with volunteering with one of the Stipend/LOSAP towns.
Wait so personal umbrella does not cover me if a tenant slips and fall I need commerical?
What firm did the $145 quote, that is a good price?
Juice Box says:
August 7, 2013 at 4:16 pm
JJ – Personal Umbrella for $1m is $145, I just did it two months ago, commercial umbrella you need to get a quote.
JJ – https://www.andovercos.com/AgentLocator.html
JJ – don’t you get condominium insurance through the association? I would check that too to see if you can get a better deal if you use the same company for whatever Landlords insurance you need. Yes it is called “Landlords insurance.”
I said as much yesterday……can grim verify through ISP?
Scrapple n’Ricin says:
August 7, 2013 at 4:30 pm
I think Michael is Pat.
JJ favorite Irishman is Pat McWeeney…..
Actually, I’ve always been fond of the surname Titsworth…….as in…how much? Oh, about a titsworth….
Scrapple n’Ricin says:
August 7, 2013 at 4:30 pm
I think Michael is Pat.
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — Puerto Rico paid a premium to sell its debt Wednesday as the municipal bond market demanded a premium to lend to the troubled issuer. The Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority sold $673 million of BBB-rated debt, with the 30-year tranche of the debt priced to yield 7.12%, according to Chris Keith, senior vice president and fixed-income manager at Adviser Investments. The debt is triple-tax exempt — meaning investors avoid federal, state and local taxes — but equates to a taxable yield of 11.78%. “The higher yield is to compensate for the extra risk that they perceive,” Keith said in a note, adding that by comparison, a AA-rated Harris County, TX 30-year bond traded at 4.75% Wednesday.
2013 clot Youth Achievement Awards:
‘He always told me he wanted to become a hired killer’: Teen murders entire family, goes to school, then takes his own life
A Brazilian teenager killed his police officer parents, his grandmother and his great-aunt, and then, after a full day at school, took his own life.
The five bodies were found before dawn on Tuesday inside two houses located on the same property in northern Sao Paulo, they said.
“Everything seems to indicate that (13-year-old) Marcelo (Pesseghini) killed his parents and relatives,” Itagiba Franco, of the Sao Paulo Civilian Police’s homicide department, told a press conference.
Forensic examinations were under way but police said the teen’s parents were killed late Sunday or in the early hours of Monday.
Mr Franco said Marcelo had told a friend he wanted to kill his parents and become a hitman.
“He always told me he wanted to become a hired killer. He had a plan to kill his parents during the night, so that no one would notice and escape in the parents’ car and live in an abandoned place,” police quoted the unidentified friend as saying.
The teen was found dead, with his father’s police-issue service revolver nearby, Sao Paulo police commander Benedito Roberto Meira said.
A second gun, a .32 caliber revolver, was found inside the backpack the teenager had brought to school on Monday, Mr Meira added, saying “there was no sign that someone broke into the house”.
The police commander ruled out “an act of revenge by a criminal group” against the teenager’s father and mother.
I have landlords insurance it is expensive, want a second policy for two million to cover both tenants and if folk decide to drown in my pool, brake a leg on my trampoline or end up under my car.
Juice Box says:
August 7, 2013 at 4:52 pm
JJ – don’t you get condominium insurance through the association? I would check that too to see if you can get a better deal if you use the same company for whatever Landlords insurance you need. Yes it is called “Landlords insurance.”
Premium? what kind of premium? The kind you get on 116th & Lex?
JJ says:
August 7, 2013 at 5:08 pm
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — Puerto Rico paid a premium to sell its debt Wednesday as the municipal bond market demanded a premium to lend to the troubled issuer. The Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority sold $673 million of BBB-rated debt, with the 30-year tranche of the debt priced to yield 7.12%, according to Chris Keith, senior vice president and fixed-income manager at Adviser Investments. The debt is triple-tax exempt — meaning investors avoid federal, state and local taxes — but equates to a taxable yield of 11.78%. “The higher yield is to compensate for the extra risk that they perceive,” Keith said in a note, adding that by comparison, a AA-rated Harris County, TX 30-year bond traded at 4.75% Wednesday.
[97] xolepa,
Michael professed his moderate credentials yesterday, and if his sock was hijacked, surely he would speak up. FWIW, he hasn’t advanced anything utterly outrageous, just some things outside the mainstream.
He kinda reminds me of Sastry, who is clearly left on the economy but open minded.
The End Is Nigh (Urban Highway Infrastructure Edition):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX38pmMsKlk
All too fishy to me.
I’m not getting caught in this tar-baby.
All the Michael posts are from the same IP, no other posters ever used that same IP (not that this means much).
This could have been President Obama…
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/parts_admits_luring_strangling_year_tZnp0PbCFVqpnEcHysI2wL
wow this is the tax history of a place down the shore in Toms River (and no it wasn’t knocked down and rebuilt or anything like that in 2009/2010)
Tax History
Year Property taxes Change Tax assessment Change
MoreFewer
2011 $7,317 10.9% $519,300 —
2010 $6,600 92.8% $519,300 —
2009 $3,424 10.7% $519,300 414%
2008 $3,092 -3.1% $101,000 —
2007 $3,190 2.3% $101,000 —
2006 $3,119 — $101,000 —
2005 $3,119 8.4% $101,000 —
2004 $2,876 — $101,000 —
Family of 5…..parents mid 30’s…..kids range from 4 to newborn……what kind of car/SUV do you buy? No luxury cars, but certainly high end regular car.
This proposed gtg…is it Michaels gang initiation?
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/08/gun_control_advocates_call_on_christie_to_sign_legislation.html
Joyce 118 – Toms River had a townwide revaluation for the 2009 tax year. It seems like the homes near the beaches saw some pretty big tax hikes.
http://www.silverbeachnj.org/2009taxreassessment.htm
http://www.app.com/article/20090823/NEWS/908230375/Coastal-owners-face-tax-hikes-following-Toms-River-revaluation
Chifi: If they are cheap, nothing touches the Mazda 5, but warn them of the shock/strut issue. Otherwise the Honda Odyssey or the Town and Country. Anything with captain’s chairs would work the best.
lib: thx
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