Shocker: Houses expensive in North Jersey

From the Star Ledger:

Where homes are within reach for the middle class in New Jersey

Only about 19 percent of the homes for sale in Bergen County are within reach of the average middle-class family, a recent survey shows, while in Salem County, the number skyrockets to 92 percent.

Real estate company Trulia compared the price of an average home for sale in each New Jersey county with the local median household income. It arrived at the affordability percentage based on whether the total monthly payment for the home was 31 percent or less than the household income.

According to Trulia, a family with a median household income of $56,000 in Bergen can afford a home priced at $274,000 – a scarcity in one of the country’s most expensive counties. By contrast, there are plenty of homes for $319,000 – the perfect price for a family earning $62,000 in Salem County.

The calculations assumed a 4.5 percent 30-year mortgage, and took into account property taxes and insurance.

This entry was posted in Demographics, Economics, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

143 Responses to Shocker: Houses expensive in North Jersey

  1. grim says:

    Only 19% of houses in BC are affordable to someone making $56k.

    How is this a problem?

    Someone with a household income of $56k probably shouldn’t be buying a house in North Jersey. This is what, two $14/hr jobs?

  2. grim says:

    By the way, this analysis uses median income for the entire metro, but the home price by county, not sure that’s the best measure here.

    For example, this has the Bergen County median income at $56k, where it is actually closer to $80k. That changes the calculus significantly, we’re talking about close to 50% more income.

    (Correction: $82,729 in 2012)

  3. Fast Eddie says:

    Since Obama has been president, seven out of every eight jobs that have been “created” in the U.S. economy have been part-time jobs.

    Yes We Can!

    I’m going to work, more later.

  4. anon (the good one) says:

    @ianbremmer: Republicans – My party shut down the Government and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt. http://t.co/lhnhdXLdvV

  5. nwnj says:

    It should be a great day for body count Booker today. It’s a good thing he has such a good lead, he lost another vote last night.

  6. grim says:

    From BuzzFeed:

    Cory Booker: Yes, I Live In Newark

    The claim that Booker resides elsewhere, which his opponent alleged Monday, is a “desperate stunt,” his campaign says.

    Booker, his office said, lived in the Hawthorne Avenue house from late 2006 to 2013, when he moved out several weeks ago to Longworth Street. The property is a multi-family home with three units, one on each floor. While the first was vacant, the second was occupied by Booker’s security detail, and the third by Booker.

    Newark Police Director Samuel DeMaio explained the need for 24-hour security in a statement. “There have been numerous threats on the mayor’s safety during the last seven years,” said DeMaio. “The mayor’s apartment on Hawthorne Avenue was located in a building with multiple units. The mayor rented a unit and the police department rented a separate unit to use in their protection of the mayor.”

    Booker’s office provided BuzzFeed with checks showing rental payments from Booker and from the Newark Police Department for the Hawthorne apartment dating back multiple years. The checks are made out to an Ife Okocha, who owns the Hawthorne building, according to state property records. (Booker’s senate financial disclosure form, which he released in May when the campaign first began, also lists the Hawthorne building as his home address.)

    Booker moved full-time from Hawthorne Avenue to the Longworth unit, near Newark’s Lincoln Park, in late September, his office said. He has owned the building since Sept. 2011, when he purchased it for $171,000 from HSBC Bank, according to state property records and local newspaper reports from the time.

    Booker moved into Brick Towers, a 20-story affordable housing complex on Newark’s Martin Luther King Blvd., shortly after becoming a city councilman in 1998. He later purchased two adjacent properties on Court Street, one of which he sold this March to Newark Now, a nonprofit he founded in 2003, for $1.

  7. grim says:

    Do we still have time for Christie to cancel the election and name Booker to the seat? God knows we could use the money.

  8. Can’t we just dig up Lautenberg and send him to DC? A few dead bodies in the halls of clowngress can only make things better.

  9. You’d think Menendez was dead at times.

  10. grim says:

    From HuffPo:

    Steve Lonegan, the Great Embarrassment of New Jersey

    For the millions of Americans who love to dump on New Jersey, it’s your lucky day. The state that brought you Paulie Walnuts, Snookie and the turnpike from hell has dropped another laughingstock into the national conversation. The unfathomable Steve Lonegan.

    Lonegan, Cory Booker’s opponent in the Senatorial Special Election on October 16, is probably not going to win. He’s been consistently down 10 points, and thanks to Chris Christie’s desire to keep Booker voters away from his sacred November election day, Lonegan has less time to chip into Booker’s lead.

    Interestingly, in one of the most diverse states in the country, Lonegan has decided to run a campaign Archie Bunker would have been proud of.

  11. grim says:

    8 – Maybe we can get Menendez to take Lautenberg’s body down to the Dominican – Weekend at Frankies! Hookers … booze … just think of the laughs!

  12. nwnj says:

    Whether Booker has lived in Newark lately isn’t clear, what constitutes living somewhere? 50-75% of the nights spent there? It sounds like there is reason to doubt he’s been there that often.

    What is clear is that he’s given up on the place a long time ago.

  13. Street Justice says:

    10 – Considering Lonegan was mostly unknown before the election when compared to Booker, it’s impressive that he was able to get within 10 points of Booker in the latest polling. Lonegan has no chance of winning, but I really thought Booker would be killing it in the polls right now.

  14. Fast Eddie says:

    53 percent of all American workers now make less than $30,000 a year.

    No worries, free phones and health insurance is on the way.

  15. Street Justice says:

    Booker should be killing it in the polls right now. This election has become a contest of who sucks less.

  16. nwnj says:

    That HuffPo blog piece is much what I’d expect — lack of substance — same thing their readers look for in a senate candidate.

  17. Fast Eddie says:

    For example, this has the Bergen County median income at $56k, where it is actually closer to $80k. That changes the calculus significantly, we’re talking about close to 50% more income.

    Sure, it changes the dynamic but where is the 20% down payement coming from? A young family has been able to save this on $80,000? That’s ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS IN DOWN PAYMENT. And, of course, that $500,000 dump is going to need some work. So, they have another $50,000 or $60,000 to remove the sh1t smell embedded in the walls among rotted out sills under doors and windows, the 1962 in-wall range with rodent droppings inside and crumbling sheathing under the decaying roof tiles. I mean, that’s considered a little updating from what I’m told. “Wait, you mean the furnace is original? Is that the furnace? And why is there a water mark 10 inches above the basement floor?”

  18. grim says:

    13 – NJ general assembly is split 48-32 Democrat. Converted to % that’s 60/40.

    Had Lonegan done nothing he would be within 20 points of Booker, just by voting party lines.

    The 10 point lead is the most optimistic for Lonegan:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2013/senate/nj/new_jersey_senate_special_election_lonegan_vs_booker-3938.html

    Average across 5 pollsters is Booker by 14.6%, the Rutgers poll had Booker by 22%.

  19. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [6];

    I still think the whole story is a grand fizzle, but I like how they explained where Booker sold one of his two houses to his own charity for $1. (No information on whether the charity assumed any debt on the property? More than one way to skin that cat.)

    I remember when owning more than one house was considered out of touch (McCain; Romney).

  20. JJ the Welfare Queen says:

    In NY the Middle Class Star Tax Relief Program is for folks making 500K AGI or less.

    The enhanced senior citizen Star Tax Relief program if for folks making 79K a year or less.

    I was on the train this morning OMG bunch of chatterboxes after Jamaica.

    Four impossibly pretty girls with two guys all class of 2009-2012 college graduates from what I gathered. From way dressed all six work in the city. All dressed nice.

    They all just moved out of home a few weeks ago and did a three bedroom winter rental in Long Beach. So from sounds two to bedroom.

    Those houses rent like tops 2k a month in winter. Tops $600 a month utilities on that place. So we are talking each kids share of rent is $435. That plus LIRR/Metro Card is only expense. No car needed in Long Beach or Manhattan.

    What is the household income of that house? And this is what we consider poor around here. Maybe 60K each salary. So we are talking 360K income in that house with a combined 2,600 monthly bill. Which if for some reason they cant pay, mommy or roomate will spot them.

    The 30K number is insane to think they are home buyers, That is half the salary of the average 24 year old.

  21. Anon E. Moose says:

    They’ve found a solution to Obamacare’s high cost — lower your income to qualify for subsidies.

    People whose 2014 income will be a little too high to get subsidized health insurance from Covered California next year should start thinking now about ways to lower it to increase their odds of getting the valuable tax subsidy.

    “If they can adjust (their income), they should,” says Karen Pollitz, a senior fellow with the Kaiser Family Foundation. “It’s not cheating, it’s allowed.”

    http://www.sfgate.com/business/networth/article/Lower-2014-income-can-net-huge-health-care-subsidy-4891087.php

  22. chicagofinance says:

    agreed….WTH? is says nothing…..

    nwnj says:
    October 15, 2013 at 8:43 am
    That HuffPo blog piece is much what I’d expect — lack of substance — same thing their readers look for in a senate candidate.

  23. chicagofinance says:

    I’m a big fan of October 6th, 1:33PM.

    chicagofinance says:
    October 14, 2013 at 6:12 pm
    Has this site ever been posted here?
    http://terriblerealestateagentphotos.com

  24. chicagofinance says:

    Sept 28th 3:20PM

  25. grim says:

    20 – Household income isn’t calculated based on non-related residents. In that situation, you have 4 “households” sharing a single residence.

  26. grim says:

    23 – That site is fantastic by the way, I am planning to share a number of my own private stash with them.

  27. Street Justice says:

    How in the hell did Christie ever get elected?

    18.grim says:
    October 15, 2013 at 8:46 am
    13 – NJ general assembly is split 48-32 Democrat. Converted to % that’s 60/40.

  28. Fast Eddie says:

    Do you think Oblama put Malia and Sasha on the silver plan or gold plan?

  29. grim says:

    28 – What I don’t understand is why the Federal Government didn’t transition all employees over to the exchanges for insurance, not saying hang them out to dry, I’d expect the insurance benefit to transition to a insurance subsidy benefit. What’s good for the gander ain’t good for this goose.

  30. Thundaar says:

    10- “Lonegan has the charisma of Dana Brody and the stability of Carrie. “

  31. grim says:

    27 – Why the hell did we ever elect Corzine for that matter.

  32. Street Justice says:

    31 – Blue is my favorite color.

  33. Street Justice says:

    Crowds of skateboarders in Columbus Circle…’gasp’ without a permit. So scary. Send in the black SUV’s.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/cops-broadway-bomb-skateboarders-columbus-circle-article-1.1485541

  34. anon (the good one) says:

    @pourmecoffee: Get excited, America! Default comes Thursday and the House Tea Party caucus is about to take center stage http://t.co/XFVCO5Rjsu

  35. Fast Eddie says:

    What I don’t understand is why the Federal Government didn’t transition all employees over to the exchanges for insurance…

    It has nothing to do with insurance, silly boy! It’s about centralized control over a dim-witted populace without opposition.

  36. joyce says:

    33
    Permits keep us safer.

  37. Fast Eddie says:

    “When Barack Obama entered the White House, there were about 32 million Americans on food stamps. Today, there are more than 47 million Americans on food stamps.”

  38. joyce says:

    Fast Eddie,
    You’re approaching the same level as ‘anon’ … do me a favor and blame more than just the buffoon in chief for the past & current expanding problems.

  39. hey anon the moron

    http://news.yahoo.com/disastrous-obamacare-exchanges-just-tip-iceberg-060600225.html

    guess it was all us wreckers and kulats who ruined the Glorious God Emperor’s plan for us all.

  40. Fast Eddie says:

    joyce,

    No problem, they all s.uck. But the current charlatan brings s.uckness to a new level.

  41. nwnj says:

    Damn, another Booker vote just dropped. That lead is dwindling.

  42. JJ the Welfare Queen says:

    In your world. But in real life it is.

    grim says:
    October 15, 2013 at 9:03 am

    20 – Household income isn’t calculated based on non-related residents. In that situation, you have 4 “households” sharing a single residence.

  43. grim says:

    Sure, it changes the dynamic but where is the 20% down payement coming from? A young family has been able to save this on $80,000?

    The reason your scenarios seem implausible is because you create them using statistics that aren’t representative of home buyers, but are representative of the general population. Not everyone has the means or ability to buy and own a home, it is not a right.

    Household Income of Home Buyers in NJ – This is statewide – These numbers likely SKEW HIGHER IN NORTH JERSEY:

    Less than $25,000 2%
    $25,000 to $34,999 3
    $35,000 to $44,999 4
    $45,000 to $54,999 6
    $55,000 to $64,999 6
    $65,000 to $74,999 8
    $75,000 to $84,999 8
    $85,000 to $99,999 10
    $100,000 to $124,999 18
    $125,000 to $149,999 10
    $150,000 to $174,999 8
    $175,000 to $199,999 3
    $200,000 or more 13

    Statewide – 52% of all home sales are to buyers with a household income above $100,000.

    When you look at the buyer profile in the hoity toity towns, you might want to focus on the 24% of home sales that are to the $150k and up crowd, instead of looking at the single wage earner household in Hackensack.

  44. joyce says:

    (43)
    grim,

    I can’t argue with any of those statistics. When in the past you as well as others have mentioned the 3-5x salary = average purchase price in a given locale, weren’t those numbers based on all salaries… not just the salaries of home buyers?

  45. grim says:

    Now, if you want to get real real accurate, it’s more likely that the buyer in the high-end town is not a first time buyer, but a move-up buyer. Here is the income breakdown of the move up buyer:

    Less than $25,000 3%
    $25,000 to $34,999 3
    $35,000 to $44,999 5
    $45,000 to $54,999 5
    $55,000 to $64,999 5
    $65,000 to $74,999 7
    $75,000 to $84,999 6
    $85,000 to $99,999 7
    $100,000 to $124,999 14
    $125,000 to $149,999 11
    $150,000 to $174,999 9
    $175,000 to $199,999 5
    $200,000 or more 20

    Statewide – $100k+ income is 59%, and the $150k and up crowd accounts for 34% of all move-up sales. An amazing 1 in 5 move up sales is to a household with $200K+ income. This $200k move up buyer is probably buying the house in Wyckoff or Saddle River, not Clifton or Bloomfield.

  46. 1987 Condo says:

    #45…and the breakdown of the $200,000 and above bracket would be even more revealing. I’d guess to be a move up buyer in Ridgewood, etc, you are at $400k +

  47. grim says:

    Median Income for a First Time Buyer – Married Couple in NJ – Statewide in 2011 was $104,900.

  48. JJ the Welfare Queen says:

    80K is around tops two years to save for a newly married couple.

    Todays newly weds have it super easy. Stocks are up around 120% since 2008. A couple gets married she moves into his apartment, his expenses fall as he is no longer living single life, he saves around 75% of their combined salaries. They are at peak raise years in a career 26-35. Housing is stagnant in the time frame. They have wedding money. Piece of cake. There main problem is too much money not too little money.

    grim says:
    October 15, 2013 at 10:21 am

    Sure, it changes the dynamic but where is the 20% down payement coming from? A young family has been able to save this on $80,000?

  49. grim says:

    Average age of a first time buyer in NJ is 31.

  50. Essex says:

    Trish Regan: “Then why buy a home? People trap their savings in a home. They’re running an opportunity cost of not having that money liquid to earn a better return in the market. Why do it?”

    Robert Shiller: “Absolutely! Housing traditionally is not viewed as a great investment. It takes maintenance, it depreciates, it goes out of style. All of those are problems. And there’s technical progress in housing. So, new ones are better…

    “So, why was it considered an investment? That was a fad. That was an idea that took hold in the early 2000′s. And I don’t expect it to come back. Not with the same force. So people might just decide, “Yeah, I’ll diversify my portfolio. I’ll live in a rental.” That is a very sensible thing for many people to do.

    “If you think investing in housing is such a great idea, why not invest in cars? Buy a car, mothball it, and sell it in 20 years. Obviously not a good idea because people won’t want our cars. It’s the same with our houses. So, they’re not really an investment vehicle.”

    Homeowners understand that you can’t sell a home with 30-year-old roofing, carpet, and kitchen appliances. Sure, the home price might go up, but investors must adjust prices for years of maintenance and renovations.

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/nobel-prize-robert-shiller-housing-not-great-investment-2013-10#ixzz2hmgInXdC

  51. JJ the Welfare Queen says:

    400K is not much of a salary anymore.

    True story. I applied for grants after Sandy. They say they consider income but did not give me income cut-off. So I applied anyhow. I got two of them.

    You can put 400K income down on a form and get Red Cross and State assistance for lower income people.

    Heck at the state level my intake person was a nice pretty girl who lives at home like 28. She saw my income, saw my car as I pulled up and saw I had no mortgage. I then bring up will my income disqualify me. She goes heck no, you have several kids. Heck when I was little when my dad took me to Roosevelt field I used to clean him out and I was only one kid. I then add and then I got colleges, weddings, clothes, vacations, food these kids are like cash sucking machines, she is like I know, I still live at home and I am just one. No problem. You have needs.

    400K is a step above welfare. I am sure half the folks in line at walmart using food stamp cards in that riot made 400k.

    1987 Condo says:
    October 15, 2013 at 10:33 am

    #45…and the breakdown of the $200,000 and above bracket would be even more revealing. I’d guess to be a move up buyer in Ridgewood, etc, you are at $400k +

  52. Juice Box says:

    Forcast is rain tommorow, that is bad for Booker.

  53. grim says:

    46 – Problem is that most of the statistical survey data stops at $200k+. Suppose if they extended the breakdowns up to $500k plus, some respondents might get upset.

    The top income neighborhoods in Ridgewood have median household incomes of $200,000. This appears to be a statistical anomaly because of the top-coding above. It’s very likely that the median household incomes in these areas are in excess of $200k.

  54. Street Justice says:

    “If you think investing in housing is such a great idea, why not invest in cars? Buy a car, mothball it, and sell it in 20 years. Obviously not a good idea because people won’t want our cars. It’s the same with our houses. So, they’re not really an investment vehicle.”

    That made me think of this story…..

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/09/29/227495741/the-142-000-pickup-truck-with-1-3-miles-tops-vintage-car-auction

  55. Fast Eddie says:

    Average age of a first time buyer in NJ is 31.

    So, they paid off the student loans and saved 20% down payment on one of those part time jobs Oblama created? ;)

  56. joyce says:

    If you’re talking about wall street and the like, you’re right they’re all on welfare.

    51.JJ the Welfare Queen says:
    October 15, 2013 at 10:45 am

    400K is a step above welfare. I am sure half the folks in line at walmart using food stamp cards in that riot made 400k.

  57. grim says:

    So, they paid off the student loans and saved 20% down payment on one of those part time jobs Oblama created? ;)

    69% of First Time Buyers in NJ have an income of above $75,000. In fact, 1 out of 4 first time buyers in NJ has an income of $100,000-$124,999, and another 22% (not quite 1/4th) has an income higher than $125k. They aren’t working part time jobs.

    Again, I need to emphasize, these percentages will SKEW HIGHER if we look only at Northern NJ.

  58. grim says:

    And why 20%?

    I put down 10%, and plowed the other 10% into renovations. After the renovations were complete, I did a second refi to eliminate my PMI payment as the assessed value was increased enough to get past the 80% gate.

    This is a much more plausible scenario in this area, due to the older housing stock, and probably provides a significantly better bang for the buck versus purchasing a similarly updated home at a higher price.

    If someone has the cash to put down 20%, than do renovations on top of that, they’d end up in a very comfortable equity position post reno.

  59. Pull the lever for Corey Bunco or for Lonegan, makes no difference…except that your vote makes you complicit with their criminal actions.

  60. Fast Eddie says:

    Yes, the incomes, I get it. Big hat, no cattle. They’re killing themselves and don’t have a pot to p1ss in. House rich, cash poor. It took me a “few” years of doing nothing but investing to reach a certain point. The next thing I’m going to hear is that the 31 year old put 20% down and has six figures in reserve.

    Let’s forget the heating/cooling system that’s about to blow, the maintenance, the property taxes, cable, phones and the fact that one needs to eat food once in a while. Flat salaries for a decade and a half while everything else doubled has nothing to do with it, right?

    Believe me, the houses are still ridiculously overpriced but why argue; my house has just increased in value by 10% as I finish this sentence. If a potential buyer doesn’t like it or is insulted, I can point to all the statistics I’m offered proving otherwise.

  61. grim says:

    59 – What’s the difference if you vote democrat or republican, either way you get a politician.

  62. Wake me up when it’s time to start shooting these leech politicians.

  63. chicagofinance says:

    Running a downtown JC liquor store seems like a perfect place to get your lever pulled gratis from a whole host of willing offerors…..

    Spine Snapper says:
    October 15, 2013 at 11:39 am
    Pull the lever for Corey Bunco or for Lonegan, makes no difference…except that your vote makes you complicit with their criminal actions.

  64. AG says:

    Where do I sign up for for the Kenyan’s free sh-t army?

    Tired of working. Get tour b-tch ass hands off my EBT (eat-better-today) card.

  65. JJ the Welfare Queen says:

    Cars are great investments. However, you really have to know what you are buying.

    For instance I bought back in Highschool a 67 firebird convertible that was originally a six cylinder, but sometime in the late 70s the engine blew when car only had 65K miles and the girl who owned it at time had a brother who was a mechanic drop a V8 from a 1969 Firebird that was rear-ended with a turbo 400 tranny and then put in a B&M rachet shifter.

    Back in the 80s everyone was ripping out sixes and dropping eights in the cars. Add to that a brand new paint job, lift kit, top, rugs and seats from catalogs on-line and car is fast and looks great and guess what near worthless.

    The car now has 105K miles on odometer and is now worth a fraction of what it should be worth. Hood and badges say six cylinder, open hood see a big V8. How many miles on that engine or tranny, who knows. Can you even prove it is a firebird engine, who knows. That size engine was not even an option in 1967 so completely mismatched. The shifter, who knows where it is. Original top, seat covers, rugs all gone.

    In retrospect, if when owner blew that original engine he just parked it in a garage threw a cover one it and pulled it out today it would be worth a hell of a lot more.

    Survivors are rare. They have value. My old benz that got destroyed in Sandy, looked good in the day. But I was pretty broke. When I rebuilt engine the cat converter, smog pump and AC was thrown out. I got a chance to get a brand new block for a good price so I put it in but I reattached the top half of engine. I had a lot of bondo on car on a cheap paint job, good year tires, diehard battery, autobarn sparkplugs you name it, over time you got nothing left.

    They always show that car pulled out of garage worth a fortune. Only car I sold that would be worth a fortune today is my black two door 1969 Dukes of Hazzard Car I used to own.

    Why I got it from original owner when he died. I had all orginal paper work. I never changed a thing. Car had a little bit of slight rust, needed a tune up, front end alignment, four new tires but other than that it was 100% original. And only 69K miles on odometer. Black is a great color, those days you had a lot of horrible white, green ones. Mine had the V8 which is good. And also had front bench seat which is good as lighter than buckets and it had the pop out rear windows instead of roll down which is also lighter. Also owner got power steering and brakes but avoided AC which is heavy and slows down car. Finally he got the SIX tire option. Meaning he paid extra to get the full spare with two extra rims with snow tires on it. I had original spare and original snow tires. And all original hub caps, and it was not torqued out. You get torquing from racing. Bends rear frame.

    Whoever bought that in 1992 I am sure he mollested it. It is a shame. If I just put that car in a garage it would be worth 30K. I sold it for 1k. But back then plain jane cars even Dukes of Hazzard cars with hubcaps all orginal were boring and not popular.

    Folks put Crager rims on them, AM/FM radios, new paint, threw bucket seats in and new shifters and blacked out windows etc. Basically making them worthless.

    First

  66. Street Justice says:

    Frightened white people in Congress who won’t accept a black President are what’s causing the deadlock

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/scared-whites-causing-shutdown-article-1.1485722#ixzz2hoEwE4Fq

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/scared-whites-causing-shutdown-article-1.1485722

  67. joyce says:

    The author lost me when he called King & McCain sane people.

    67.Street Justice says:
    October 15, 2013 at 12:36 pm
    Frightened white people in Congress who won’t accept a black President are what’s causing the deadlock

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/scared-whites-causing-shutdown-article-1.1485722

  68. JJ is there a muscle car you didn’t own?

    Joyce article could have been shorter with this headline Republicans = Racists

  69. Juice Box says:

    Re: #67 – Baloney if it was Hillary in the White House instead of Barry the Repu licans would be doing the same thing.

  70. JJ the Welfare Queen says:

    A few I did not own, I did own the following cars, in age order
    1963 Dart GT Convertible
    1967 Firebird Convertible
    1968 Buick Skylark 2 dr Hardtop V8
    1969 Plymouth Belvedere, 2 dr Hardtop V8
    1971 Dodge Demon, 2 dr Hardtop V*
    1973 Dodge Dart Swinger, 2 dr Hardtop
    1974 Mercury Capri, V6 Sunroof
    1975 Mercedes 450 SL Convertible
    1976 Jeep CJ7 Convertible, Levi Package, V8

    If I still owned all of them it would a pretty good car show.

    Painhrtz – Disobey! says:
    October 15, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    JJ is there a muscle car you didn’t own?

    Joyce article could have been shorter with this headline Republicans = Racists

  71. JJ the Welfare Queen says:

    White Presidents have deadlocks, Black Presidents have dreadlocks

    Street Justice says:
    October 15, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    Frightened white people in Congress who won’t accept a black President are what’s causing the deadlock

  72. I encourage all voters to drink heavily tomorrow.

    Drink so heavily that you pass out and cannot go vote.

  73. anon (the good one) says:

    unreal

    @MotherJones: Surprise: House Republicans are pushing for an anti-birth-control measure in the debt ceiling deal http://t.co/NGkdZJaeLD

  74. Fred the ex renter says:

    hello everyone…thoughts on home insurance carriers in NJ? combo packages with car insurance..

  75. Fast Eddie says:

    anon (the good one),

    Why don’t you use your other handle to post?

  76. unbelievable says:

    grim stats are total rubbish

    don’t you realize that incomes and income distribution is lower than 2000 yet houses are 50% up not to mention taxes that doubled or more in the last 10 years
    the only reason market has not crashed is fed/gov

    what a nerve to argue for overpriced used junc liabilities
    no wonder this country/state is down the drain

  77. Statler Waldorf says:

    People shop homes by zip code, not county.

  78. Statler Waldorf says:

    Grim, I’ve seen that city-data.com provides median income values for a given town to well over $300K.

  79. yome says:

    On the House floor, Congressman Chris Van Hollen decided to get a clarification on the rules of the shutdown. Apparently, normally any congressperson can call for a vote on any bill at any time. But just before the shutdown happened, the GOP quietly passed a measure that said only House Majority Leader Eric Cantor can call for the shutdown to end (unless he gives a designee permission). Not even the most senior GOP congressperson, Speaker of the House John Boehner, is allowed to do it, without permission from his own guy.

    Here’s the thing. Democrats are not always right. Neither are Republicans. The political system is messed up from top to bottom. But this is just crazy. The guy in charge of the GOP can’t end the shutdown. Watch and see. At 5:00, we get to the reality of the situation.

    http://www.upworthy.com/congress-did-something-so-spectacularly-creepy-that-its-too-unbelievable-to-make-up?g=2&c=upw1

  80. Pete says:

    #80, I don’t think there is a town in the US that has a median income over $300K.

  81. anon (the good one) says:

    which other handle would that be? I bet there has been a long conversation about it and I missed it.

    Fast Eddie says:
    October 15, 2013 at 2:01 pm
    anon (the good one),

    Why don’t you use your other handle to post?

  82. I don’t recall anyone here having the handle, “Dolt”.

  83. Statler Waldorf says:

    city-data.com/zips/07620.html

    Averages for the 2004 tax year for zip code 07620, filed in 2005:

    Average Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) in 2004: $512,431 (Individual Income Tax Returns)
    Here: $512,431
    State: $64,921

    Salary/wage: $287,720 (reported on 68.0% of returns)
    Here: $287,720
    State: $57,755

  84. joyce says:

    Statler,
    How did it spike in 2004 but not 2000 or 2010?

    CENSUS 2000
    The median income for a household in the borough is $130,740, and the median income for a family is $134,068.
    CENSUS 2010
    The Census Bureau’s 2006-2010 American Community Survey showed that (in 2010 inflation-adjusted dollars) median household income was $172,054 (with a margin of error of +/- $23,256) and the median family income was $192,188 (+/- $56,076).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine,_New_Jersey#Demographics

    Estimated median household income in 2011: $169,947 (it was $130,740 in 2000)

    http://www.city-data.com/city/Alpine-New-Jersey.html#ixzz2hokGUdWz

  85. nwnj says:

    Pete

    Nearly every poll(nytimes, cnn, etc.) that I’ve searched since you responed yesterday has Romney winning the college degree vote by 51 to 47. Even the fox news poll that you referenced had that same numbers, before reporting the erroneous stat that had Obama winning the college degree vote. My guess is that some dunce at Fox News who put those pages together double counted the graduate degree holders when reporting the college degree vote separately.

    Not that it really matters or I care, my point was just to illustrate what a mindless drone anon is for repeatly parroting the twitter hacks that he follows. Everyone can agree on that.

    Pete says:
    October 14, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    “Romney won the college educted vote.”

    No he didn’t. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2012-exit-poll

  86. Libturd in Union says:

    Fred the ex renter,

    Shop around! Go with whomever prices the lowest. I personally never found a company whose combined home and auto policies provided a better discount than using the cheapest insurer separately. Also keep in mind, insurers have no loyalty. If you are a glutton for pain and savings, get new quotes each and every year. Currently, I am with Tower (horrible customer service) for homes and Geico (excellent service through one and only claim) for cars. Used to use MetLife (awesome through Snowlaween and Sand) and Liberty Mutual (never had a claim) for cars. I’ve also had Narangasett (sp?) and State Farm over the years. Quite honestly, if you don’t have frequent claims, just go with whomever is cheapest. I requote whenever they raise my rates significantly. I am essentially paying less for both than I did when I first purchased my multi back in 2004. Shop around. Once you get your first quote, whiteout the prices and fax it to all of the other insurance companies. You can even leave the original insurance company’s name on there. They don’t care. Easy peasy. Just don’t give them your phone number. Have them email you their quotes to a junk email box. Whole process takes about an hour.

  87. Libturd in Union says:

    Anon is like the camp guard at Auschwitz.

  88. grim says:

    85 – The two neighborhoods in Ridgewood that I indicated were at the $200k limits on the census data look like they are at a $250k limit on City Data (“Over $250k”). I’m looking at neighborhoods that are more granular than zip.

  89. Pete says:

    nwnj, just to clarify the 51-47 that you see everywhere is for “college degree only”. To get the total college graduate vote you have to get the weighted average of “college degree only” and “postgrad study”. That is what the foxnews poll aggregated in the 2nd question.

  90. Fred the ex renter says:

    Thks Lib…I’m currently renting so no prior experience with home insurance and have Geico for car which has been pretty good. I’m getting a great quote from “NJ Skylands” for both car and home, I’ve never heard of them so I’m a bit leary.

  91. Anon E. Moose says:

    Fred [91];

    Skylands was lowest bid for me too, my first year in the house/state. I lost a tree in Sandy, which took out a detached staircase on its way down. Skylands was the epitome of a day late and a dollar short. What they paid me for everything just about paid for the tree removal alone (and that was only six months later after things calmed down and the $5000 bid gypsies disappeared) with nothing left over to replace the stairs.

    Anyway, I considered it a cheap lesson, and as soon as the year was up I moved the policy to Travelers for only a hundred or so more. I’m using the same co. for home and auto.

    Libtard’s mortgage guy referred me to John Wilkens

    Robert Wilkens Insurance Agency
    320 Palisade Ave
    Bogota NJ 07603
    P 201-343-1741
    F 201-343-2814
    http://www.wilkensagency.com

  92. Fred the ex renter says:

    Thks Anon..That’s exactly what I wanted to avoid. I’m a first time homeowner so don’t need that headache. Travelers is next in line as far as price, about $500 more than skylands for both car and home, but would still save about $600 on car alone going with Travelers. Funny…I’m already working with Wilkens, what’s been your experience with them

  93. nwnj says:

    #90

    Fair enough, though nowhere in there does it say the first groups are exclusive(why wouldn’t they just use bachelor’s degree?), and I don’t study the stuff anyway. It’s just so easy to refute the garbage regurgitated by anon here daily.

  94. Libturd in Union says:

    Wilken’s are a bit sloppy (they forgot to charge me for a policy, but sent me a receipt that claimed I paid), but at least they TRY to service you. Skylands is notoriously bad! Remember…no loyalty. Better to keep finding teaser rates.

  95. Bystander says:

    My buddy lives in Ridgewood. Probably makes 200k total and put 25% downvon 700k house. With 3 kids and stay home wife, he is drowning in debt and wife is miserable bc they can’t afford Ridgewood Country club. Poor in a rich town. Where is this in Grims stats?

  96. Lib,he may as well change his name to Schultz. Seriously other than the bluesest of the blue is any body really sweating the whole shutdown. We have not had an FDA inspection in 2 weeks I’m not complaining. Life is just going on for the rest of us until the daily prison $ex returns once our idiot masters can come to an agreement ont he best way to continue to F*ck us.

    To be honest isn’t like 80% of the government still operating the rest is just kabuki theater.

  97. Libturd in Union says:

    “Poor in a rich town. Where is this in Grims stats?”

    Count me in. I live across the street from the Glen Ridge Country Club, but joined the community pool. Though, it’s not that I couldn’t afford it. It’s more the case that I simply prefer not to associate with those people. Plus, I’m not sure they would be willing to valet Lightning McQueen. Though it might be worth joining just to see people cringe when I pull up in her.

  98. grim says:

    Country clubs? You guys are out of my league. It kills me to pay my $29 gym membership every month.

  99. Fast Eddie says:

    Bystander [96],

    Multiply by a zillion. That’s my point. These are not measurables. The “big hat, no cattle” theorem.

  100. grim says:

    My buddy lives in Ridgewood. Probably makes 200k total and put 25% downvon 700k house. With 3 kids and stay home wife, he is drowning in debt and wife is miserable bc they can’t afford Ridgewood Country club. Poor in a rich town. Where is this in Grims stats?

    Not sure, but I’m pretty sure this story ends with JJ screwing your friends wife on the hood of a ’67 Firebird Convertible. Sorry about your friend though.

  101. Happy Renter says:

    This vehicle is perfect for driving through snow, mud, rivers . . . and mobs of angry thug bikers!

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/10/15/ghe_o_motors_rescue_video_romanian_vehicle_is_perfect_for_zombie_apocalypse.html

    Clot, gotta pick up one of these before the apocalypse.

  102. Ottoman says:

    I don’t believe any insurance companies pay for tree removal no matter what you pay for your policy. They only pay for any damage that the tree does to property–house, outbuildings, car, neighbors house. So most likely, the money they gave you was for the staircase only. It was up to you to fund taking the tree down and removing the debris. I have Allstate for auto and home (they farm out the home) and am happy with it.

    “. I lost a tree in Sandy, which took out a detached staircase on its way down. Skylands was the epitome of a day late and a dollar short. What they paid me for everything just about paid for the tree removal alone”

  103. Anon E. Moose says:

    Fred [93];

    Ditto Lib on Wilkins as to responsive customer service. When I priced the move last year I shopped them, Geico and Allstate. Wilkins gave me two options, incl. Skylands, that were both cheaper than the others.

    I don’t know that I’d call their office sloppy, but I had a funny incident. When they faxed me two temporary insurance cards related to my change of auto policy this year, they were filled in on a blank form sheet that had four pre-printed cards. On the two that were not used, the person faxing them had written “AVOID” diagonally across. Just a slight miscommunication with the scribe…

  104. Anon E. Moose says:

    Otto [103];

    The tree removal was covered because it was necessary to replace the staircase. Considering that, had the tree fallen north instead of south, their exposure would have been much greater, I would have thought they’d be glass to settle my relatively small claim quicker than they had and with less contention. Their adjuster came in at 1/3 the best of my estimates.

  105. xolepa says:

    Libtard,
    Who do you use for income-property insurance? I am thinking of switching from State Farm.

  106. Fred the ex renter says:

    anon/lib..Something similar already happened with them as they sent me a file with a random name for my wife. She would be thrilled to know that she’s been replaced..haha. any thoughts on Travelers for either home/car, have had Geico for car for 7 years and have been pretty happy.

  107. Ottoman says:

    105- ah, that makes sense that they would pay something for the tree then. I and all my neighbors and local relatives have lots of experience with fallen trees and various home owners insurance companies. The topic got really hot around here during the October storm the year before Sandy. We just cut our own trees down now, in fact I’ve got a 50 footer laying across the back of the property I need to cut up this week.

  108. grim says:

    108 – Nice – We cut down a 70 foot ash last weekend. Had enough room to just fell it proper. Didn’t take much time at all. Biggest pain in the ass for a DIYer is dealing with small branches. Dealing with little branches takes more time and effort than dropping the tree and breaking it down. Suppose you could rent and tow a big ass chipper, but that’s going to cost a couple hundred bucks and take half a day to move around.

  109. grim says:

    Reminds me that I need to call Steve to take down 2 more trees at my house. Both are going to probably need a crane as they overhang the house, deck, fences, etc. I know my limits.

    I’m done with trees anywhere near anything of value that can be smashed by falling branches. I’ve had to fix a gutter twice now.

    Looking forward to a day where “clean out the gutters” makes no sense at all to me.

  110. Ottoman says:

    That’s the nice thing about western Somerset and morris counties. Although the people are just as annoying, they’re farther away and easier to avoid. I haven’t yet driven my 11 year old rusty pickup to 90 Acres (grossly overrated but our friends like it) only because of the dog hair I’d need to remove from my clothes, but I’m sure my Subaru wagon has gotten a few side eyes from the patrons and staff. Seems like half the kids around here drive Porsches to school.

    “It’s more the case that I simply prefer not to associate with those people. Plus, I’m not sure they would be willing to valet Lightning McQueen. Though it might be worth joining just to see people cringe when I pull up in her.”

  111. grim says:

    New neighbors move in on Friday – I suppose I could ask them if I could take their shitty old chain link fence down and drop the tree on their property. How’s that for a warm welcome? Heck, we could split the cost of a 6 foot vinyl privacy fence and it would be a win for everybody.

  112. Ottoman says:

    109. – during the October storm we had a double 70 foot ash come down and land across a pear and apple tree. We got a guy from warren county to cut it up for us plus trim all the trees near the barn, cars, house, etc. 400 bucks. Pear and apple are still alive. last year we pulled down another 70 footer on our own that was rotten at the base. This other one just fell on its own back in the woods, it’s near a creek. Anyone who dreams of land, beware. Get meadows you can mow.

    And you are right about the small branches, lucky for me I can pile them in a cart and dump them down a hill into my neighbors property. But I only do that for willows, my brother in law takes the ash for his wood stove.

  113. chicagofinance says:

    If you can get in New Jersey Manufacturer’s…case closed…..

  114. chicagofinance says:

    I have them for home, auto, umbrella…..it costs about $0.05…..

  115. JJ the Welfare Queen says:

    grim says:
    I dont play golf or tennis. I need a club for stoop ball and johnny on a pony.

    October 15, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    My buddy lives in Ridgewood. Probably makes 200k total and put 25% downvon 700k house. With 3 kids and stay home wife, he is drowning in debt and wife is miserable bc they can’t afford Ridgewood Country club. Poor in a rich town. Where is this in Grims stats?

    Not sure, but I’m pretty sure this story ends with JJ screwing your friends wife on the hood of a ’67 Firebird Convertible. Sorry about your friend though.

  116. Bystander says:

    Grim,

    I hear that she is only good for once a quarter. JJ better time it right. Although maybe he is Moses to her Red Sea. Better flash the cash first.

  117. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (JJ Politico Edition):

    It was one long, hot bathroom break.

    The weekend before the government shutdown, Staten Island Congressman Michael Grimm took time out to sneak into the bathroom of an upscale Brooklyn wine bar with a comely gal pal — for a suspected 17-minute sex romp, sources told The Post on Tuesday.

    “It just so happened a couple people [at the bar] knew exactly who he was and kept an eye on him,’’ said one source, a Brooklyn Republican political operative who received a phone call from one disgusted eyewitness. “They were shocked.

    “Dude, I think he was in there having sex,’’ the source said, quoting the witness at The Owl’s Head on 74th Street in Bay Ridge, part of Grimm’s district, which straddles southern Brooklyn.

    “I think it was pretty obvious what as going on in there,’’ the source said. “They said Grimm was in there with a girl for 17 minutes. I guess they were timing him.

    “They were absolutely appalled,’’ the source added of the witnesses.

    “[The bar] is a place you go to for a quiet, romantic glass of wine, not a congressman having a tryst in a bathroom.

    “It’s very brazen. but that just all fits in perfectly with [Grimm’s] brazen persona.’’

    Grimm, a former FBI agent, did not immediately respond to a phone call or e-mail seeking comment.

    The story was first reported online by Brooklyn Magazine.

    The handsome congressman, who was briefly wed in 1994 before the marriage was annulled, is no stranger to controversy.

    In 1999, he was working as an undercover stock trader when he allegedly waved his gun around in a Queens bar after his girlfriend’s husband confronted him. He also was accused of making a racist comment to other people in the bar at the time.

    The feds also probed his 2010 campaign finances amid allegations of improper contributions from a well-known rabbi.

  118. Theo says:

    State Farm cover tree removal for me. Neighbor’s maple snapped in half 20 ft up during Sandy and fell across fences on four properties.

  119. Street Justice says:

    I thought you hated vinyl fencing.

    grim says:
    October 15, 2013 at 4:46 pm
    New neighbors move in on Friday – I suppose I could ask them if I could take their shitty old chain link fence down and drop the tree on their property. How’s that for a warm welcome? Heck, we could split the cost of a 6 foot vinyl privacy fence and it would be a win for everybody.

  120. anon (the good one) says:

    where W at?

    @pourmecoffee: Downgrade us once, shame on – shame on you. Downgrade us – we won’t get downgraded again.

  121. anon (the good one) says:

    @ianbremmer: House vote dead. Boehner will be stuck with Senate bill. Boy those House Republicans are imploding.

  122. grim says:

    120 – Yeah, but I’m pretty sure they have no idea that there are two big dogs next door. I kept them in for every open house and showing, so I’m pretty sure the neighbors are in for a surprise. It’s ugly ass privacy chainlink in 1972 green. I’d put in the same aluminum I have around the rest of the yard, but that only opens it up more to the dogs.

  123. Libturd at home says:

    Xolepa,

    Same for home and multi. Dumb Chase mortgage required a 6 month rent loss coverage. Skylands was the only one I found offering it. Plus, it was truly cheap as heck. Then Chase came back and said both my primary and investment properties must be from the same carrier. Hence, no more Met Life. And they will cover the tree removal if the remaining portion is dangerous, as ours was.

    It was probably better that I left Met Life anyway. I had about 13K in claims over the two years I used them. I’m guessing my policy would have skyrocketed shortly after.

  124. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [110];

    Did you mention having knowledge with those open cell foam gutter fillers? Any particular brand? I see a couple on the market.

    I cleaned one gutter on the 1st story family room, standing on the ladder from the deck. I then decided it was worth it to hire out the rest of the job — and would like to avoid i being an biennial event. They seem relatively inexpensive (and well they should be, save for installation labor).

  125. grim says:

    Most of the big open cell triangles are going to give you similar performance. The kind I was familiar with was GutterStuff.

    I don’t like the surface tension covers, they all perform pretty poorly in heavy downpours.

    Heard a couple of other guys said they’ve seen even better performance with some of the (much) cheaper screen type filters. Home Depot carries a bunch by Amerimax, some rolls, some more structured clip on units. I haven’t played with these but I seen some installations that were downright ugly (drilled holes and zip ties).

  126. Anon E. Moose says:

    Thanks.

  127. Fabius Maximus says:

    Tax news of the day.
    Personally I would have imposed a 2% surcharge for a non domiciled company to wipe out Austerity, But it’s a start to address a global issue.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24542794

  128. Fabius Maximus says:

    #7 grim

    That is what CC should have done from day one. Real life, he should have appointed a Dem (even a really bad one) to serve out the term an then moves on. But he was caught in that Hobson’s Choice. He appoints any D he is politically dead. If he appoints an R he’s is partisan.

    I saw the debate with CC and Buon and Babs was very impressive. CC has a big problem here. While he will coast to a win, I’m not buying into 24 points. First time I will say that Buono as a loser, will walk away from this loss stronger. CC will have people asking if he can’t put away Buono in these debates with such a big lead, how will he handle the National debates.

  129. chicagofinance says:

    I’m no huge CC fan, but you are kidding, right? You follow sports….how does your team play with a big lead? You are truly insufferable….

    Fabius Maximus says:
    October 15, 2013 at 11:09 pm
    #7 grim
    CC will have people asking if he can’t put away Buono in these debates with such a big lead, how will he handle the National debates.

  130. Comrade Nom Deplume, riding the CLUTCH! says:
  131. Comrade Nom Deplume, riding the CLUTCH! says:

    [133] chifi,

    You just figuring this out now?

  132. Comrade Nom Deplume, riding the CLUTCH! says:

    You know, somehow “I told you so” just peasant quite do it . . .

    “Of course, I want people to have health care,” Vinson said. “I just didn’t realize I would be the one who was going to pay for it personally.”

    http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_24248486/obamacares-winners-and-losers-bay-area

  133. Comrade Nom Deplume, riding the CLUTCH! says:

    I am really looking forward to Obamacare. It’s a lawyers dream!

  134. Fabius Maximus says:

    #133 Chi

    “.how does your team play with a big lead?”

    They don’t play for a draw and they don’t let the tying run get to the plate. CC is high in the polls on the back of Sandy. He has to worry about a low turnout. If its just the bases going to the polls he has an issue. I would not be surprised if the right throw him under the bus. There may be some who think that he is so far in front that they don’t need to go vote for him. He has to worry about the Blue Dogs looking at their property tax bill and wondering where their charter school vouchers are. I’m sure his last prayer at night is that there is no 47% tape out there from all the closed door fund raisers or trips to the Koch.

  135. nwnj says:

    Body count Booker is really going out with a bang(multiple bursts of them actually).

  136. JJ the Welfare Queen says:

    I got a fun game today. So as we all know I was stupid without flood insurance. Anyhow other than FEMA inspector saying I qualify for full $31,900 grant I had no clue what damage was to my house. Sure I hired off the books folks to do all the emergency repairs and fix the whole lower level but I never finished and I never got real quotes.

    So NYS visited my house three weeks ago and an inspector spent two hours documenting damage to my house to repair using builder grade material no luxury items. No granite countops, no tile floor, no contents, just plain jane fix and repair.

    So I got the letter last night how much to fix my house back to builder grade just from direct damage from Sandy using licensed contractors.

    Anyone care to guess what the total damage is to my little split level house?
    I will give you a few guesses.

  137. chicagofinance says:

    Elite 140: Why did the chicken cross the road? I’m sure you will ponder and dissect the possible answers to nauseous effect…….well?

  138. chicagofinance says:

    JJ: what did you think of the rep having sex in the bathroom at that Brooklyn bar? Classy right?

    chicagofinance says:
    October 15, 2013 at 5:38 pm
    The End Is Nigh (JJ Politico Edition):

  139. JJ the Welfare Queen says:

    I like it. You know what some trendy bars have multiple unisex bathrooms where it is common for couples to have quickies. That is why they get away with charging ten dollar for drinks. Folks who live at home, are married, have long commutes why not.

  140. grim says:

    140 – You sure it was sex? Maybe they went in for a couple bumps of coke and just couldn’t get the vial open?

  141. moose I have the open cell foam on one gutter to try them out they work ok but can get filled with debris. We have locust trees over the one gutter and they can get clogged but work well enough with a little bit of maintenance.