Pay Up!

From UPI:

Monthly home payments climb, while incomes stagnate

Monthly payments on U.S. homes jumped 21 percent in the fourth quarter of 2012 from a year earlier, a survey of 325 counties found.
Online housing marketplace and research firm RealtyTrac said Thursday that the payment bump was the result of a 10 percent average gain in the median price of homes and a 33 percent increase in the interest rates for the average 30-year, fixed rate mortgage.

Although home payments have soared, home ownership remains more affordable than renting a home in most markets, said Daren Blomquist, vice president of RealtyTrac.

On the other hand, he said, home affordability is losing ground due to “still-stagnant median incomes.”

In contrast to the housing market collapse that triggered the recession, the current imbalance in the market is a result of “investors and other cash buyers who are not tethered to the typical affordability constraints,” Blomquist said.

“One simply needs to look at the minimum income needed to qualify for a median-priced home in some markets to realize the extent of the disconnect between prices and income,” Blomquist said.

By example, the minimum income required to buy a median-priced home in Los Angeles County was $68,000 a year ago. That has climbed to $95,000 this year, Blomquist said.

By the numbers, a 30-year, fixed rate loan at 4.46 percent interest, assuming a 20 percent down payment, for a median-priced three-bedroom home cost an average of $865 per month in the fourth quarter of 2013.

A year earlier, all details the same, but assuming a 3.35 percent interest rate, and the average monthly payment came to $714 per month, RealtyTrac said.

This entry was posted in Demographics, Economics, Housing Recovery, Mortgages, National Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

101 Responses to Pay Up!

  1. grim says:

    From NJBIZ:

    New Jersey home prices are consecutively increasing ever since the housing recovery began.

    According to an Otteau Valuation Group Inc. report, this is due in part to an increase in the demand to buy a house combined with a tight inventory of available houses for purchase.

    The median home price in New Jersey increased to $287,480 in quarter four, up slightly over $10,000 from last year. At the same time, the amount of houses available for sale remains low with a decline of 1,800 homes (-4 percent) over the past year and more than 30,000 (-41 percent) homes since inventory peaked in 2011, the release said.

    After two consecutive quarters of declining housing affordability for buyers due to the high cost of homes coupled with the rise in mortgage interest rates, the affordability of ownership in the Garden State rose once again in quarter four.

    The affordability index rose 120 percent, similar to levels back in 2013. According to the findings, this means that a home buyer today earning the state’s median income of $69,667 is able to afford a home that is priced 20 percent higher than the state’s median home value of $287,480.

    The findings suggest a recovery in home prices has occurred in northern parts of the state however, southern parts continue to see a much slower recovery.

  2. anon (the good one) says:

    Grim, i wonder if could list some well-thought insights about trading up. it breaks my heart to see Eddie unable to afford the upgrade so desperately desired. Updating a kitchen, a bath and roof can cost me over $50 – $75k, perhaps and incentive to move up? haven’t actually done it because in my town a brand new house within my price range pretty much doubles my taxes. a reLtor told me to buy a $300k, tear it down and rebuilt for $500k. taxes then would be for an upgrade as opposed to new.
    jj is very much against moving up to a larger property, but surely there must be some appreciation benefits to a bigger house in a 30 yr period, no?

  3. Phoenix says:

    Anon, I have no doubt Eddie can afford to upgrade.
    He is looking for a needle in a haystack.
    There is a chance he will find it.
    No one knows when.
    And so he waits.
    I understand his reasoning behind the wait.
    I wish him luck. The deck is stacked against him.
    If housing falls to Eddies pricing level, there is going to be a lot of pain to go around.
    It will not be pleasant. I believe along with clot it is approaching unsustainable status.
    Then it’s time to grab your ankles.

  4. anon (the good one) says:

    Phoenix,
    cool post, it reads like a poem

  5. 1987 Condo says:

    “Earned Success”..Cadillac commercial in event you have not watched Olympics…my favorite line…”we left the keys in the car”…

    scroll down

    http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/02/poolside-with-the-2014-cadillac-elr-ad-break/

  6. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Condo that commercial should start with we used to, now we are just content to sit on our collective couches. eat cheatos and bag on the successful because they have not been punished enough for their success.

  7. JJ says:

    Move to a trade up house becaue you want to. You need to, You need more room, You want to show off. But there are absolutely NO financial benefits to doing so.

    First if you can afford a trade up home you are most likely in AMT and property taxes are not deductable. So basically the extra 10-20K a year in property taxes are out the window.
    Second, if you want more real estate exposure you could buy a second home to rent out. You would have same appreciation as if you had a bigger home but you would have income too
    Third. Plain old dollar average costing into a low cost quality stock fund beats housing over time. If you can afford and extra 2k a month in mortgage invest it.
    Fourth Heating and electric and lawn and hidden costs increase
    Fifth, but too big you have large transactions cost selling you smaller home to buy the larger home then in retirement you have to sell larger home to downsize. You created three real estate transactions all with high cost.

    I have way way way outgrown my house myself. My issue is my blue collar town there are no big homes. Only slightly bigger homes and is it really worth all the effort to move to get one extra bedroom and basically not that much different house. The rich towns near me with nice big homes in good school districts homes cost 1.2 million with 30K in taxes. Even it I put down 800K and took a 400K mortgage the mortgage would be $1,700 a month and taxes would be $2,500 a month. For a total of $4,300 a month. But since my current house being very genrous is worth tops 400K which means to put down 800K I have to sell 400K of muni bonds that currently pay me almost $1,700 a month interest. Add that to the $4,300 and I am at $6,000 a month.

    Compare to current house, no mortgage, taxes $730 a month.

    Then the fact I am at work 12 hours a day five days a week and usually go away on vacation.
    My wife wants to blow out my house. Personally I dont want to touch it. My taxes are low and once the contractors and town gets in their who knows what stuff they will find.

    I wish I could find a large run down low tax estate sale for an owner willing to do a cash deal. I could then instantly grieve taxes based on my sales price, then bring in my guys who do work no permits at cash price and fully renovated it. Of course “in-kind” repairs. Just replace existing baths and kitchens, paints and sand floors etc. So when I sell no problem. That way I could have trade up, avoid high taxes and perhaps make a profit when I sell. But I cant find any house like that.

    2.anon (the good one) says:
    February 20, 2014 at 7:56 am
    Grim, i wonder if could list some well-thought insights about trading up. it breaks my heart to see Eddie unable to afford the upgrade so desperately desired. Updating a kitchen, a bath and roof can cost me over $50 – $75k, perhaps and incentive to move up? haven’t actually done it because in my town a brand new house within my price range pretty much doubles my taxes. a reLtor told me to buy a $300k, tear it down and rebuilt for $500k. taxes then would be for an upgrade as opposed to new.
    jj is very much against moving up to a larger property, but surely there must be some appreciation benefits to a bigger house in a 30 yr period, no?

  8. grim says:

    So basically the extra 10-20K a year in property taxes are out the window.

    An EXTRA $20k in property taxes? What the hell kind of move up house are you looking at?

  9. chicagofinance says:

    Long-term I want 1500 sq. ft max and no yard…..this winter just reinforced in my mind that I am a hardwired city boy………when you have kids though……you have to give them a yard…it’s just cruel otherwise…..

  10. Fast Eddie says:

    Phoenix [3],

    Well-stated! Exactly. Anon, do you get it yet?

  11. Ragnar says:

    JJ,
    1.2$mn with $30k prop taxes/yr should be no big deal for a wall st. baller like you. More like the summer cottage.
    People don’t sell good houses for a discount as a bonus to reward the buyer for not taking a mortgage. Sellers get cash on closing no matter what. They want to sell to the person willing to borrow as much as possible to buy their house, to get a higher price, as long as they think the buyer will bring cash to closing. I think handwritten notes and cash purchases has a better shot in the low end of real estate.

  12. anon (the good one) says:

    JJ,
    thanks, I will print your post and keep it

    Grim, I’m shocked that you find $20k exorbitant. easy to find many examples in many counties in which going from 7-800k to 1.1 – 1.2 makes it happen. especially if house new

  13. JJ says:

    Usually houses that sell for cash are estate sales, divorces, houses with flood damage, condo or coops where builing is unmortgagable or people who already moved. Disount is not huge. But think about this. We sold my mothers house that was empty years ago to a cash buyer. We did consider a mortgage could take two months to close, if buyer could not get mortgage deal falls apart take another 1-2 months to find a another buyer. Then another 1-2 months to close. In the end we were willing to do 5k off for cash. But even 5k off person avoids, mortgage recording tax and all the excrow and mortgage fees. He could save 20K at closing.

    Cash is only something that comes up after you are done and about to go to contact. You try to get a few more grand off.

    You are right, good houses at good prices from homes that have no problem never give a cash discount.

    Remember the movie the Super with Joe Peschi. Dad gave him the two rules to be a successful real estate landlord.

    1) Only buy if propery meets the 3D rule (Divorce, Dispair or Death)
    2) What to you do to a property once you buy it? Absolutely Nothing.

    Dad on death bed tells Joe the two rules of succesful real estate investing and goes now that I have told you everything you need about real estate I can die.

    11.Ragnar says:
    February 20, 2014 at 9:14 am
    JJ,
    1.2$mn with $30k prop taxes/yr should be no big deal for a wall st. baller like you. More like the summer cottage.
    People don’t sell good houses for a discount as a bonus to reward the buyer for not taking a mortgage. Sellers get cash on closing no matter what. They want to sell to the person willing to borrow as much as possible to buy their house, to get a higher price, as long as they think the buyer will bring cash to closing. I think handwritten notes and cash purchases has a better shot in the low end of real estate.

  14. grim says:

    He said $20K more, extra, on top of the previous home’s property tax – that pushes upwards of $30k.

    Who goes from a $400k house to a $2m house as an “upgrade”, unless they stepped in a pile of cash.

    From my perspective, most “upgrades” that take place don’t breach more than $5k in additional taxes. Folks upgrade from $300k to a $500k house, or a $500k house to a $750k house. Folks don’t upgrade to homes where the delta is measured in multiples.

  15. Ragnar says:

    How did these dumbass kids happen to be driving a high-priced Audi at 1am? I’m guessing a lack of parental supervision combined with a surplus of parent money.
    Bad luck to both be dead and have dumb photos on the internet of you posing in front of your guillotine.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/dead-single-car-wreck-long-island-expressway-article-1.1618007

  16. JJ says:

    Address Not AvailableRockville Centre NY, 11570 (Active ) Share .$1,200,000
    4 beds, 3 Full/1 Half baths, 3,386 sqft| 80×100 Lot Built 1940
    MLS# 2615707

    Here is an example of high taxes can be for a Four Bedroom House on a 80×100 Plot in a nicer long Island train town.

    Property Taxes: are $36,928

    80 by 100 plot wall paper, old kitchen, rooms with dated wall to wall carpeting and some wood panneling to boot!!! It is not a renovated house.

    $36,928 TAXES IS INSANE on top of a 1.2 million price tag.

  17. grim says:

    Idiot and his money…

  18. Ragnar says:

    JJ,
    On rule #1 I hit 2 of 3 in my last purchase, but since I’m living in it on #2 I did lots of work.

  19. grim says:

    Granted, my view of the overall market is limited and potentially biased, but for folks I’ve worked with and deals I’ve been close to (my office) – the following is a pretty good rule.

    Generally – someone will upgrade to a house 2x in value from the first, only if they own the current residence outright – no mortgage. Sell the $400k house, put a 50% down payment (or more) on the $800k house. Typically, the higher the mortgage amount on the first house, the lower the upgrade multiple.

    Only exceptions to this are folks in professional careers taking huge pay increases due to position changes (really mostly doctors that I’ve seen).

  20. Michael says:

    14- I agree with grim on this point. Unless they hit the lottery, no one moves from a 400,000 home to a 2 million dollar home. Two different worlds.

  21. Michael says:

    Thought a few of you might enjoy this.

    “The individual income tax accounts for slightly less than half of federal revenue and the top 1% already pays a substantial share of that total. Most of the wealth owned by the top 1%, and especially by the “super rich” in the top 0.1%, is also held in stocks, bonds and real estate that are not subject to income taxes until sold. It is a fool’s errand to try to raise the living standards of the bottom 60% through higher income taxes on the top 1% or 0.1%.”

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303519404579352551767664072?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

  22. xmonger says:

    #15 – 90mph on Pothole Hell Highway? Kid was either stupid, drunk, or both.

  23. Anon E. Moose says:

    Michael [21];

    Careful, there. You’re starting to sound sensible. You’d better go watch some CNN/MSNBC before you have an episode.

  24. Anon E. Moose says:

    JJ [16];

    You know well that’s the haughty section of RVC. The town forced the county to build Peninsula Blvd as limited access because it’s an artery from Hempstead — they didn’t want the hoi poloi having easy access in and out of their neighborhood.

  25. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Rag looks like a v8 S5 so 450 hp, nothing like buying the instrument of your kids demise.

  26. AG says:

    Trade up houses are for suckers. Buy small, stay small, make your million, then GTFO. That’s life in NJ.

  27. Ragnar says:

    Painhrtz,
    The photo was blurry, but those tires didn’t even look like winter tires. When he’s got AUDI AWD, a guy can just put on his black fur coat in winter and drive 90 on icy potholed highways. Maybe he thought he was playing “Need for Speed” and could just hit the reset button if he crashed.

    My wife is going to investigate if this was one of those kids sent from China with a ton of money. Like some high official’s mistress’ kids. The non-bastard kids stay and die in Ferrari’s instead of Audis, and with 2 girls instead of just 1:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2198246/Ling-Gu-death-Ferrari-crash-covered-Chinese-officials.html

  28. scribe says:

    Grim,

    I have a favor to ask. I need a look-up on a property in Cranford, NJ. Can you email me at rretkwa@verizon.net with your email address?

  29. Statler Waldorf says:

    “$36,928 TAXES IS INSANE on top of a 1.2 million price tag.”

    Chump change for a player. A few clicks of the mouse, and in rolls the money.

    Why the fear of spending a few dollars more, when it’s a minor percentage of your cash flow?

  30. JJ says:

    $36,928 should be taxes on a mansion. Three acres, pool, tennis court, 6,000 square foot house.

    This is $36,928 on a 80×100 1940 house in pretty much original condition that needs work. That is insane even for a billionaire. Even more insane I can rent a nice 4 bedroom house for 4k a month in a rich neigbhborhood, rent out my place for 2k a month and be only out of pocket 24K a year, way less than the taxes alone on that house. I could do that for next ten years and move back to my little house once I ran all the kids through school.

  31. anon (the good one) says:

    not a good way to go, but why are you enjoying it?
    had they been blasted instead by a Newark resident for playing Chinese music too loud in the Audi then you would be crying hysterically

    Ragnar says:
    February 20, 2014 at 9:40 am
    How did these dumbass kids happen to be driving a high-priced Audi at 1am? I’m guessing a lack of parental supervision combined with a surplus of parent money.

  32. Libtard in Union says:

    Anon.

    Maybe if they opened their eyes all of the way, they could have seen the speedometer better.

  33. Ragnar says:

    anon,
    You truly don’t know anything, and are exceptionally unqualified to speculate on my emotional reaction to things. Your little mind cannot grasp my mental processes, even when I spell them out for you, so it certainly cannot when I don’t. “The sound perception of an ant does not include thunder”. To spell it out, you are the ant. Now go back to finding left-wing twitter spooge.

  34. Juice Box says:

    re: Long Island and Audi crash.

    Used to be the rich Italian club kids getting killed on then LEI every year driving home from NYC like maniacs, now it is the Asian kids driving to some underground club that allows underage kids perhaps, neither lived on Long Island right? What would bring them onto the LIE headed west at 1 AM during a weekday?

    FYI that girl was jail bait too, age of consent is 17 in NY, plus it is a school night….

  35. chicagofinance says:

    A short drive from where I grew up……there is no way you can drive that speed on that road……then throw in black ice…..forget it…..the LIE in that stretch is a combo of 280 through Newark with the winding of the GSP in Essex County…..then the left lane and right lane all have below grade sewer grates that serve as megapotholes……..it also feels as if the cross street overpasses were retrofitted, so it is a lot of upgrades/downgrades………sheer suicide…..

    Ragnar says:
    February 20, 2014 at 9:40 am
    How did these dumbass kids happen to be driving a high-priced Audi at 1am? I’m guessing a lack of parental supervision combined with a surplus of parent money.
    Bad luck to both be dead and have dumb photos on the internet of you posing in front of your guillotine.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/dead-single-car-wreck-long-island-expressway-article-1.1618007

  36. Libtard in Union says:

    “plus it is a school night….”

    Exactamundo!

    As usual, the ultralib always despises any inkling of personal responsibility.

  37. Statler Waldorf says:

    “$36,928 should be taxes on a mansion. Three acres, pool, tennis court, 6,000 square foot house.”

    It is, in Nebraska. I just don’t follow all the penny pinching with 7 figures are rolling in each year. All the rationalization seems more appropriate for someone pulling in $60K.

    As for schools, wouldn’t the kids benefit from living in a top-tier school district?

  38. chicagofinance says:

    Ragnar: Also profuse apologies in advance…….Chinese-Americans are the worst drivers other than South Asians…..

  39. chicagofinance says:

    It is Flushing……tons of Chinese north of the LIE there…..

    Juice Box says:

    February 20, 2014 at 12:16 pm

    re: Long Island and Audi crash.

    Used to be the rich Italian club kids getting killed on then LEI every year driving home from NYC like maniacs, now it is the Asian kids driving to some underground club that allows underage kids perhaps, neither lived on Long Island right? What would bring them onto the LIE headed west at 1 AM during a weekday?

    FYI that girl was jail bait too, age of consent is 17 in NY, plus it is a school night….

  40. chicagofinance says:

    Chinese music has no bass……..BIG difference….

    anon (the good one) says:
    February 20, 2014 at 11:51 am
    ot a good way to go, but why are you enjoying it?
    had they been blasted instead by a Newark resident for playing Chinese music too loud in the Audi then you would be crying hysterically

  41. joyce says:

    Maybe 7-figures are not rolling in each year?

    37.Statler Waldorf says:
    February 20, 2014 at 12:23 pm
    “$36,928 should be taxes on a mansion. Three acres, pool, tennis court, 6,000 square foot house.”

    It is, in Nebraska. I just don’t follow all the penny pinching with 7 figures are rolling in each year. All the rationalization seems more appropriate for someone pulling in $60K.

    As for schools, wouldn’t the kids benefit from living in a top-tier school district?

  42. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Rag the thing with all the nanny systems on the audi f*cking things are almost impossible to crash in any weather condition.

    audi is the car of choice in china saw more audis in Bejing than I saw in Frankfurt.

  43. grim says:

    42 – Ballers drive with traction control off

  44. Comrade Nom Deplume in the dark says:

    [38] chifi,

    Back in my un-pc days, we had a term we used to describe Asian driver habits: DWA. Driving While Asian. It used to be DWO.

  45. Comrade Nom Deplume in the dark says:

    [43] grim,

    Whats traction control?

  46. Street Justice says:

    Steve “I will never support concealed carry” Sweeney, NJ Senate president…Holds a concealed carry permit. Motherfcucker!

    Manasquan, NJ –(Ammoland.com)- The Twitterverse has exploded over the last few weeks after NJ Senate President, Steve” Sellout” Sweeney stated “I will never support Concealed Carry” during one of his regular “Twitter Thursday” events with constituents, then proceeded to blame those same constituents insistence that he directly answer questions concerning NJ Gun Laws as the reason why “common sense” solutions cant proceed.

    But people have come forward privately to claim that the Senate President has told them in face to face conversations that he holds a NJ Concealed Carry Permit. Are rumors and third party information sufficient proof? Depends on who you ask. If your an ultra liberal Democrat in the State Legislature, then rumors and innuendo are more then sufficient to launch full blown investigations into the slightest mis step by your opponents. If your the same liberal Democrat that has rumors swirling about you however, then they are simply that, nothing but rumors and slanderous falsehoods, engineered by your enemies to bring you down a peg, to be shrugged off as dismissively and easily as respecting your Oath of Office.

    Will we ever know for certain about the existence of a NJ State Carry Permit issued in the name of Steve Sweeney? Unlikely, as the State doesn’t release that information, although Sweeney himself could answer the question by authorizing a release or issuing a statement to address it. At least Dianne Feinstein had the guts ( and I use that word extremely loosely) to openly admit to having a Carry Permit herself, whilst simultaneously using every tool at her disposal to deny that right to others and seize their lawfully owned firearms along the way. Who would have thought? A big, burly Iron Worker, bested in the “courage” Dept by a frail, narcissistic despot from San Francisco.

    Again, I use words like “courage” and “guts” for illustrative purposes only, as Feinstein is truly devoid of both.

    If it turns out to be true that Sweeney does hold a NJ Carry Permit, does anyone actually believe he has gone to the effort of completing the training requirements and shooting a qualifying score on the NJ State Police test that is mandatory under the law in order to be issued a valid permit?

    Or is it much more likely his paperwork was simply rubber-stamped by a sympathetic Judge? Its not exactly unprecedented.

    When NJ Senate President Steve Sweeney says “I will never support Concealed Carry”. What he is actually saying is that it is perfectly acceptable to him if a random number of innocent Citizens are victimized by violent criminals as sacrifices on the altar of Anti Gun Ideology. Such as Dustin Friedland, tragically gunned down while protecting his wife from a gang of vicious repeat criminals shortly before Christmas.

    When NJ Senate President Steve Sweeney says “I will never support Concealed Carry”, what he is saying is, it is of no consequence to him how many women are brutalized, raped and often murdered because the choice to defend themselves has been taken out of their hands. Especially if to do otherwise might cost him votes.

    When NJ Senate President Steve Sweeney says “I will never support Concealed Carry” what he means is, he will never support Concealed Carry for “the little people” , those annoying Constituents who continue to pester him with questions about why he is not taking his Oath to defend their Rights more seriously.

    And when NJ Senate President Steve Sweeney says “as long as I am Senate President, you can rest assured that not a single Anti Gun Bill will reach the house floor”. What he really meant was, I’ll sell you and your Rights out from under you in a heartbeat if I decide that keeping my word might cost me higher office.

    So how about that, Steve? Are you willing to man up, come clean and publicly state whether you do or do not hold a NJ Carry Permit? And if you do, why you feel your life and the lives of your loved ones are more valuable then the lives of those you swore an Oath to serve?

    About Dan Roberts Dan Roberts is a grassroots supporter of gun rights that has chosen AmmoLand Shooting Sports News as the perfect outlet for his frank, ‘Jersey Attitude’ filled articles on Guns and Gun Owner Rights.As a resident of the oppressive state of New Jersey he is well placed to be able to discuss the abuses of government against our inalienable rights to keep and bear arms as he writes from deep behind NJ’s Anti-Gun iron curtain. Read more from Dan Roberts or email him at DRoberts@ammoland.com You can also find him on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/dan.roberts.18

    Read more: http://www.ammoland.com/2014/02/does-senate-sweeney-have-a-nj-carry-permit/#ixzz2tt5MgOnr
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
    Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

  47. Street Justice says:

    Grim, can you unmod my post please?

  48. chicagofinance says:

    When we were in college, my friend was pulled over while driving back to NYC…..I asked him why did the trooper nail him? DWB was the response…..

    Comrade Nom Deplume in the dark says:
    February 20, 2014 at 1:02 pm
    [38] chifi, Back in my un-pc days, we had a term we used to describe Asian driver habits: DWA. Driving While Asian. It used to be DWO.

  49. chicagofinance says:

    While at AT&T in Bedminster, I worked with a historically bad driver who was a South Asian woman. She drove up to the wrong lane on the security checkpoint and her security card didn’t work. She tried to back out of the lane, but panicked. She turned the steering when and then the back left tire went up onto the island curb. She panicked some more and managed to back her entire car onto the island in between lanes. Her car then teetered up there and all four wheels lost contact with the ground. The needed to call a large vehicle tow truck to run two sets of chains under the car so they could pick it up and place it back down on the ground.

    Meanwhile, she does this in the middle of the week at 8:15AM, so the entire 3,000 person complex gets a chance to see who this goofball is. Even 6 months later I remember getting coffee with her and hearing other people say “it’s her”…..

  50. chicagofinance says:

    when = wheel

  51. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (Haute Cuisine Edition):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6afKhS-aMTM#t=24

  52. Ragnar says:

    Pain,
    All that nanny stuff can’t override the laws of physics though. On my new A6, even with winter tires, it cannot stop very quick on slick ice. One thing I notice when making turns on slick ice & snow is that the car starts feeling like a video game. I think its doing some trickery to make the turn happen, and conceal that stuff is slipping, but it’s also really unnerving because it’s sort of hiding the underlying negative feedback from me. So that could lead me to become overconfident and not know that I could just entirely slide off the street if I tried the same turn even faster.

  53. Michael says:

    37- I totally agree. I stated this a few weeks ago on this board. There is absolutely no reason to keep saving money when you have that kind of money. It’s completely backwards to be worrying about 30,000 a year in taxes when you are a millionaire.

    It’s like that dumb book, “The Millionaire Next Door”, as long as you don’t spend money and live in a small house, you will be a millionaire. No sh#t. Problem is, you are a millionaire living like you are lower class, what is the purpose? YOU ARE NOT REALLY A MILLIONAIRE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT LIVING LIKE ONE. It’s no different than a bum on the street worth millions (Laugh, but I have read numerous articles with street bums worth millions). No point in being a millionaire and living like a poor person. It’s backwards and makes no sense whatsoever. IMO, it’s a disease to not be able to spend and enjoy the money you worked so hard to make. It’s not something to be proud of.

    “$36,928 should be taxes on a mansion. Three acres, pool, tennis court, 6,000 square foot house.”

    It is, in Nebraska. I just don’t follow all the penny pinching with 7 figures are rolling in each year. All the rationalization seems more appropriate for someone pulling in $60K.

    As for schools, wouldn’t the kids benefit from living in a top-tier school district?

  54. Michael says:

    53- People with this state of mind, some advice- LET IT GO. Once again, what is the purpose of saving huge amounts of money (aka sacrificing quality of life) to only grow old and not spend it. Wait, you have to give it to your kids right? Noble gesture, but complete waste of time. If you want to give your kids something, teach them how to survive and make it on their own. Otherwise you will just be supporting an ungrateful spoiled brat that will never ever grow up.

  55. grim says:

    54 – Don’t tell me how to live my life or what to do with my money. If I want to hoard it or give it to my kids, who are you to judge? Usually the ones who yammer about money not buying happiness don’t have either.

  56. Comrade Nom Deplume, back as Captain Justice says:

    as my friend and fraternity brother used to say “money cannot buy happiness, but I’d rather be rich and unhappy than poor and miserable.”

  57. Comrade Nom Deplume, back as Captain Justice says:

    Things that make me think of JJ:

    copy of an email on Facebook that said “sluts are just hookers without a grasp of economics”

  58. grim says:

    What no talk about the WhatsApp acquisition? Mind F*cking BLOWN.

  59. Denis says:

    JJ I have just the house for ya’ …….Little Silver lot size 100×520 ….

  60. Fast Eddie says:

    Usually the ones who yammer about money not buying happiness don’t have either.

    Exactly!

  61. Statler Waldorf says:

    For less than a single-digit percentage of his alleged annual income, JJ can live in the house he pines for here each day, and his kids can attend top-tier schools.

    Squeezed into a small split-level located in an average school district while there are millions in the bank is not rational in my book. But what do I know, I’m just a janitor living in a rented room.

  62. Essex says:

    Money is nice. But I do remember making $20k a year and feeling like I had made it.

  63. Michael says:

    You can do whatever you want. I’m just trying to open your mind to the negatives of being a scrooge. I’m not advocating you spend everything you got, but if you are worth millions and complain about 30,000 a year in property taxes, you have issues. These type of people don’t spend anything. They don’t really live life. They are so obsessed with looking at how much money they have saved, that they miss out in life. The obsession takes over them, and they feel guilty spending a dollar when they are worth millions. What happens next is that they are on their deathbed at 80 years old, worth millions, and asking themselves, why didn’t I live a little. Did I really need to save so much that I missed out on life? It’s good to save, but you have to look at the big picture here, and not let it take over your life. You will spend so much time saving that you will never get to enjoy it. Hence, why even save if you never get to enjoy it. It would be like a squirrel that saved more acorns than the other squirrels. Every year the squirrel spent his life working to save more acorns. The squirrel, by his third year, acquired enough acorns to last the rest of his life, but he didn’t stop. Even though the squirrel didn’t need to, he kept on saving acorns all the way to year 10. On the 10th year of his life, this squirrel was on his deathbed, finally realizing that it was a waste of time to save that many acorns, he can’t take it with him. He should have enjoyed life some more instead of wasting it collecting acorns he was never ever going to use or need.

    P.s When did I say money doesn’t buy happiness? I’m calling the savers, who never spend, idiots.

    54 – Don’t tell me how to live my life or what to do with my money. If I want to hoard it or give it to my kids, who are you to judge? Usually the ones who yammer about money not buying happiness don’t have either.

  64. Michael says:

    Exactly!!!!! To have that kind of money while living in a crap house for the sake of saving money is a disease. I will never understand this type of mindset. It’s sad because these type of people go on living life never ever realizing how crazy they really are. You can’t take it with you. Enjoy it while you are here. If you barely spend money, you will have no problem living on welfare, so why are you scared to lose your money?

    “For less than a single-digit percentage of his alleged annual income, JJ can live in the house he pines for here each day, and his kids can attend top-tier schools.

    Squeezed into a small split-level located in an average school district while there are millions in the bank is not rational in my book. But what do I know, I’m just a janitor living in a rented room.”

  65. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Rag we play a game with our A4 avant to try and get it out of the nanny zone. I have had it in controlled drifts a couple of times but the computer really hates it. Agree about fighting the laws of physics but if that was a late model s5 it takes a lot of stupid to get it to that point which this 19 year old apparently had.

    In other news US women epic choke job to lose the gold

  66. grim says:

    65 – New S5? You can press a button and turn off esp/traction control off.

  67. grim says:

    http://www.auditech.org/acont-1556.html

    Looks like the kid should have read the manual…

    Please note that, when the ESP or ESP/traction control system (ASR) is switched off, the driven wheels may start to spin, causing the vehicle to lose grip, in particular on slippery or wet roads – danger of skidding!

  68. Ragnar says:

    Michael,
    I don’t think many Americans have an over-saving problem.

    Statler,
    A few of JJ’s stories don’t quite add up, you may have noticed through the years. But they are entertaining enough that I don’t want to cramp his literary freedom by complaining about it. JJ will forever in his stories be rolling in cash and undervalued bonds, driving premium cars, yet doing slapdash repairs on a small house sitting on a bad street with a nosy neighbor.

  69. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Grim you can turn the ESP off but there is is still a lot of roll over and speed sensitive features that would keep most dweebs from doing something utterly stupid with a powerful car. For the record if it was a late model s5 it would have had the supercharged v6 not the v8

  70. Ben says:

    I watched a Chinese grad student at Rutgers try to park his car once. He hit the adjacent car on the side door. He then backed up and tried again. Hit it again.

  71. Juice Box says:

    Speaking of saving vs spending…

    We are in the process of taking apart and selling Great Granny’s house. A simple brick 3 br cape cod, the house she raised her children in after she got married at the end of WWII. She is nearly 102 and finally gave in and moved into assisted living. If this woman did not save she would have been broke a long time ago. Either way she will be broke anyway at the end. House is worth maybe 120k and that only good for the costs of about two years of assisted living. So for the last 4 decades she had to keep up with inflation after her husband died and she lived off his simple pension with no COLA. The only way to do that was to live frugal and live off what savings she had.

    There is nothing wrong with saving. Stop basing the savers. It is the spenders and those that live off of credit way beyond their means that are the real problem we have today, not some middle aged Long Island “Joey” Buttafuoco accountant like JJ who saves and invests to build up a modest nut to retire on.

  72. 1987 Condo says:

    I think until you have at least $2 million saved for retirement (exclude house, college costs, etc) you need to be fairly frugal.

  73. Juice Box says:

    Chi – re: 1500 sq ft.

    This is for sale. They are moving to Texas. The fountain alone is worth more than the average house, actual sq footage is also alot more than 8,700.

    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/209-Holland-Rd_Middletown_NJ_07748_M65814-66210?row=5

  74. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [58];

    They took $19B — I have to wonder what how much they asked for, and how anyone that delusional on valuation can own something more substantial than a POS NJ Cape!

  75. 1987 Condo says:

    #72…of course if you have one of the good gov’t pensions, you may not need anything saved!!

  76. JJ says:

    What are the taxes?

    73.Juice Box says:
    February 20, 2014 at 4:17 pm
    Chi – re: 1500 sq ft.

    This is for sale. They are moving to Texas. The fountain alone is worth more than the average house, actual sq footage is also alot more than 8,700.

    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/209-Holland-Rd_Middletown_NJ_07748_M65814-66210?row=5

  77. chicagofinance says:

    Michael: you make me sick…..you have no idea what you are saying…….case in point: I have an 80 year old client who had to rewrite his will, because of a potential future benefactor with your mindset came to the well once too often……nicest person too…said benefactor must have really crossed the invisible line, but when someone who earned their money smells an entitled “taker”, it is really depressing….then remove the personal connection and make it society…..far more repulsive to the point of anger…..it isn’t about one-time…..it is setting a precedent and then watching everything go off the rails from there…..

  78. Juice Box says:

    re: # WhatsApp

    What Zuck is now engaging in is what Microsoft did back in the 90s. They are attempting to consume or destroy all completion.

    Problem is different today and Zuck is going to lose because he will not be able to buy out or destroy all completion. Today the barrier for entry to mobile is practically zilch. Anybody can build an app and deploy it to Android and iPhone, you can rent presence in the cloud stack for zilch as well and allot of nobodys have hit it rich doing so.

    I think Net Neutrality will be the real game changer here. The telecos are not going to go quietly.

  79. Michael says:

    Well said. I love jj’s posts.

    Btw, I was not directing my posts at jj. I was simply venting my feeling towards extreme savers. I happen to know more of these types than I care to, and they tend to get under my skin. My friend, who is turning 31 this year, has never had a job in his life. He is loaded and lacks ambition due to the fact that he was given everything. He is getting married this year and having a Sunday wedding. What a cheapo!! I rest my case.

    “A few of JJ’s stories don’t quite add up, you may have noticed through the years. But they are entertaining enough that I don’t want to cramp his literary freedom by complaining about it. JJ will forever in his stories be rolling in cash and undervalued bonds, driving premium cars, yet doing slapdash repairs on a small house sitting on a bad street with a nosy neighbor.”

  80. Juice Box says:

    JJ – a mere pittance of $55k annually to live on the corner of a very busy road.

    FYI this guy struck it rich with an IT body shop.

  81. Michael says:

    77- so what are you saying, become a millionaire to not spend anything? Why is spending some of your money a bad thing? You are telling me that you are one of these sicko’s who make money to never spend it? Hey guys, I have 100 million dollars that I will never spend….high five!!

    Btw, great example you just gave. Rich family member saved his whole life only to give to his reckless family member who does not appreciate the money at all. Same ol story. How about this guy go on a vacation instead of giving the money to his family member to blow.

    “Michael: you make me sick…..you have no idea what you are saying…….case in point: I have an 80 year old client who had to rewrite his will, because of a potential future benefactor with your mindset came to the well once too often……nicest person too…said benefactor must have really crossed the invisible line, but when someone who earned their money smells an entitled “taker”, it is really depressing….then remove the personal connection and make it society…..far more repulsive to the point of anger…..it isn’t about one-time…..it is setting a precedent and then watching everything go off the rails from there”

  82. Juice Box says:

    Chi – I know you may have heard of this but $8,000 per month for assisted living? This is a place in the Midwest too. I am starting to believe what my high school history taught me, which was that families will be suffocating their retired baby boomers parents with pillows as the sleep.

  83. joyce says:

    Michael,

    For the fourteenth time, the savers you’re referring to do not wrap their cash in plastic and bury it in the back yard. They invest it. I would assume that because the ‘super rich’ people have most of the money that 99.9% of all the money saved (that you’re complaining about) is really invested which adds to GDP the same way spending does. Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth?

  84. Ragnar says:

    73, Juice,
    Photo #4 of that house is house pron. I hate garish dual stairway entrances and that one is especially garish. Photo 4 looks like an aging hooker with legs spread wide, wearing black lace. The gold clock on the wall is the cl1t. Good place to film some fake reality show.

  85. Michael says:

    Yes, I understand. Question, when do they get to enjoy the fruits of these investments?

    Too many times, the investments become addictions, where the person dies never even touching a dollar from that said fund, all in the name of never taking from the fund since that will cause it to generate less money. Once again, what is the purpose of never going on vacations or driving a crappy car, and then diverting this money saved to savings/investments, if you are never going to touch this money?

    You apparently haven’t been around enough rich people that are so cheap, you can consider it a disease. It can get to you after a while.

  86. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    [84] ragnar,

    Who did the window treatments? Morticia Addams?

  87. joyce says:

    So now 1) we’ve dispensed with your original notion of the money being saved/hoarded/etc, and 2) you agree that it is being used within the economy… you still have a problem with choices other people make that do not affect you in the least.

    You’re hopeless.

    Michael says:
    February 20, 2014 at 5:30 pm
    Yes, I understand. Question, when do they get to enjoy the fruits of these investments?

    Too many times, the investments become addictions, where the person dies never even touching a dollar from that said fund, all in the name of never taking from the fund since that will cause it to generate less money. Once again, what is the purpose of never going on vacations or driving a crappy car, and then diverting this money saved to savings/investments, if you are never going to touch this money?

    You apparently haven’t been around enough rich people that are so cheap, you can consider it a disease. It can get to you after a while.

  88. Juice Box says:

    Rags the basement is where all the Bollywood action is

  89. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    Define “irony”:

    From CNN Money:

    “Colorado expects to take in about $184 million in tax revenue from marijuana in the first 18 months after legislation — and much of that money will be funneled into teaching kids to stay away from pot.”

  90. Ragnar says:

    Juice,
    I couldn’t find basement photos. The photos overall were terrible. They should have planned ahead and took photos before the house was buried in snow. Too cheap to shovel the entire steps, I note.
    But is that house more garish than this oldy but goody a mile from me?
    http://www.prudentialnewjersey.com/102816020

  91. anon (the good one) says:

    Define “advanced civilization which realizes that the war on drugs is hugely wasteful on many levels and therefore regulation, taxation and prevention are better options”

    From CNN Money:

    “Colorado expects to take in about $184 million in tax revenue from marijuana in the first 18 months after legislation — and much of that money will be funneled into teaching kids to stay away from pot.”

  92. Street Justice says:

    That’s exactly what my wife’s grandparents pay. But hey like Michael said, just spend it all as soon as you get it. Savers are suckers right? Why save for the future when you can just burden future generations with your care?

    Juice Box says:
    February 20, 2014 at 4:52 pm
    Chi – I know you may have heard of this but $8,000 per month for assisted living? This is a place in the Midwest too. I am starting to believe what my high school history taught me, which was that families will be suffocating their retired baby boomers parents with pillows as the sleep.

  93. Juice Box says:

    re# 90 – Rags you will have to trust me on the basement, that is where they held very large and lavish parties. Mom was smoking hot too, perhaps an ex -Bollywood actress or something. They moved out already house will sit for a while I would think. Not sure if it is levered up but considering it was only built in 08 who knows how much they actually pumped into the place.

  94. Michael says:

    I’m all about moderation. I feel the same way about extreme savers as I do extreme spenders. Both are fools in their own way.

    “That’s exactly what my wife’s grandparents pay. But hey like Michael said, just spend it all as soon as you get it. Savers are suckers right? Why save for the future when you can just burden future generations with your care?”

  95. Michael says:

    I still don’t agree with you. Like I said, I know some really cheap people. I know some freaks that don’t trust stocks or banks with their money. Not everyone invests in stocks. Some save the money in their house and buy a rental property when they have enough cash saved up to pay in cash.

    “So now 1) we’ve dispensed with your original notion of the money being saved/hoarded/etc, and 2) you agree that it is being used within the economy… you still have a problem with choices other people make that do not affect you in the least.”

  96. Juice Box says:

    Taibbi has left Rolling Stone to join Omidyar but not before writing this.

    Mega Squid

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-vampire-squid-strikes-again-the-mega-banks-most-devious-scam-yet-20140212

  97. Bystander says:

    test

  98. joyce says:

    95

    So now buying a rental property is considered saving/hoarding and is not considering spending it within the economy?!?!?

    christ, I’m done

  99. Juice Box says:

    Joyce – done?

  100. joyce says:

    I’m done explaining the english language to Michael.

  101. Milena Velba says:

    Will you allow me to place this on my twitter?

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