Buyers Market in NJ Suburbs of Philly?

From NBC Philly:

Study: Philly Area 2nd Best Market in the Country for Home Buyers

If you’re looking to buy a home, Philly might be the place for you. The Philadelphia area is the second best market in the country for home buyers, according to a new study conducted by a website that specializes in real estate market research.

On Wednesday, Zillow.com released their list of the 10 best markets for home sellers and 10 best markets for home buyers. Philadelphia ranked second on their list of best buyers’ markets, right behind Cleveland, Ohio.

“Top buyers’ markets tend to have lots of inventory, steep price cuts and homes that linger on the market,” said Cory Hopkins of Zillow.com. “Top sellers’ markets tend to have low inventory, homes that are selling for more than the asking price and a quick turnover. Zillow analyzed data on sale-to-list price ratio, number of days listings spent on Zillow and percent of homes on the market with a price cut, and ranked the cities within your metro relative to one another.”

Within the Philadelphia Metro area, Pittman, New Jersey was ranked the number 1 buyers’ market while Newark, Delaware was ranked the number 1 sellers’ market.

Zillow also calculated that the median estimated home value for the Philadelphia area on a given day was $193,000 for the month of February, up 2.4 percent from February, 2013.

Nationally, the median estimated home value was $169,200 in February, up 5.6 percent from February, 2013, according to Zillow.

Hopkins also says the values for homes in the Philly metro area are expected to rise another 1.3 percent over the next 12 months.

Dr. Stan Humphries, the chief economist for Zillow, says their latest report shows that the West Coast may be better for sellers and the East Coast better for buyers.

This entry was posted in Demographics, Economics, Housing Recovery, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

123 Responses to Buyers Market in NJ Suburbs of Philly?

  1. grim says:

    Top 5 Philly Sellers Markets
    1. Newark, DE
    2. West Chester, PA
    3. Upper Providence, PA
    4. Northampton Twp, PA
    5. New Castle, DE

    Top 5 Philly Buyers Markets
    1. Pitman, NJ
    2. Norristown, PA
    3. Burlington Twp, NJ
    4. Williamstown, NJ
    5. Medford, NJ

  2. grim says:

    From the Star Ledger:

    NJ labor market sees sour start to 2014 as winter blamed for job woes

    New Jersey’s labor market kicked off 2014 on a few sour notes.

    According to preliminary data yesterday from the state Department of Labor and Workforce Development, the state lost 3,900 jobs during the first month of the year.
    Meanwhile, the state made scant progress over the past year toward returning to the peak employment levels it reached exactly six years earlier.

    In January 2008, New Jersey boasted a record 4.092 million jobs, according to data provided by Patrick O’Keefe, director of economic research at CohnReznick in Roseland.

    Six years on, the Garden State is more than 167,000 jobs shy of that number, as the state reported an estimated 3.925 million jobs for January. And the 5,600 jobs the state added between January 2013 and January 2014 barely closes the gap.

    “In 2013, we made less progress in the recovery than we thought,” said O’Keefe, a former deputy assistant secretary at the U.S. Department of Labor.

    According to New Jersey Policy Perspective, a liberal-leaning think tank, the state has recovered just 37 percent of the jobs it lost during the recession. New York has recovered 163 percent and Pennsylvania 78 percent.

    One area where New Jersey has made significant progress is its unemployment rate. The state’s jobless rate fell to 7.1 percent in January from 8.9 percent a year earlier. This drop puts the state closer to the national average, which stood at 6.6 percent in January and climbed to 6.7 percent in February.

    But as O’Keefe noted, the drop in New Jersey’s unemployment rate had little to do with people getting jobs, but rather with people dropping out of the labor force. Yesterday’s data showed that the civilian labor force — or the count of working-age people who either have a job or are looking for one — shrank by more than 100,000 over the 12-month period ending in January.

    In an interview, state Labor Department Commissioner Harold Wirths said he believed the declines in the labor force are due in part to people retiring rather than just giving up on finding work. But he acknowledged that the state, with its high taxes and heavy regulation, is lagging the nation when it comes to creating jobs.

  3. grim says:

    From MarketWatch:

    How to buy a house that isn’t for sale

    Some buyers are getting creative when low inventory levels threaten to crush their home-buying dreams: They’re writing letters to homeowners, asking if they’d be interested in selling.

    That’s what Will and Jung O’Donnell did last year.

    After unsuccessfully searching for a home in San Francisco for months, they switched real-estate agents. Their new agent helped them find listings that expired years ago — including the one they’d eventually buy. The agent then presented the owner with a letter of interest from the couple.

    The O’Donnells are now happily living in their Lower Pacific Heights home.

    Hey, if you don’t ask, you’ll never know, right?

    But for those on the other side of the transaction, the homeowners, getting an unsolicited offer for your home can feel a little strange. Maybe even a bit creepy.

    “Nine out of 10 [homeowners] will say ‘Thanks, but no thanks,’” said Brendon DeSimone, real-estate expert for the website Zillow, and an agent licensed in California and New York.

    If the home was on the market a couple of years ago, then removed, many times the homeowner is on to plan B; maybe they’ve built an addition to create the space they needed or they overcame an objection they once had about the home, DeSimone said.

    But sometimes they’re still interested in selling the property. Perhaps they decided to rent out the place instead for a while, but really don’t want to be a landlord. Or maybe they weren’t willing to part with their home at post-housing crash prices, but would be satisfied with their return now.

    Granted, this strategy isn’t popular everywhere. But in places where the inventory of desirable homes is tight or for highly sought-after properties, it isn’t all that unusual, real-estate agents say.

    “Sellers in this scenario can often name their price,” Hellman said.

    Of course, that doesn’t mean a buyer will pay it. But you can decide what price will make you move.

    And in highly competitive markets, you may get it.

    “The second you go on the [multiple listing service], dozens of buyers are competing,” DeSimone said. If they’re tired of looking and are planning on being in the home for a long time, the buyer might not mind paying a higher price.

  4. Best NJ Buyers’ Markets = hell

  5. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Write a letter offer to feed squirrels or.buy the squirrels 300 dollar jeans

  6. anon (the good one) says:

    Clot
    take a look at this. btw, what’s up withe lack of death threats? you used to threat non-rightwimgers everyday

    @BillMoyersHQ: New study looks at ancient civilizations that failed & concludes we may be headed in that direction http://t.co/cbOpktY4tX

  7. Cronut Nom Deplume says:

    [1] grim,

    Interesting stats. Being on the ground here, I can tell you that some things that might account for the sell off in a couple of those markets is Astra Zeneca. They are closing down a huge facility in Wilmington. This was a concern to us when we were looking as we knew about it. West Chester is a demographic blip, IMHO, and possibly growing pains. Traffic sucks here now.

  8. Fast Eddie says:

    I would rather be dead in Soho than alive in Pitman, NJ.

  9. Fast Eddie says:

    I’ve got a few dozen addresses in various towns where I am sending letters to homeowners. If the house is well kept, logical in layout and maintened, I may consider their price. If its a dump and some fat slob is looking for a payday, they can go fcuk themselves.

  10. Cronut Nom Deplume says:

    [6] anon,

    Thanks for the morning chuckle. Always enjoy Comrade Frank’s screeds. But he really needs to break down and hire a fact checker. To wit:

    “In a 1984 book on the problem of inequality, the journalist Thomas Edsall wrote that one of the Democratic Party’s historical contributions to equality was its practice of promoting members of outsider groups to positions of political authority. He meant this as a description of the distant past and, indeed, I don’t know of any other commentator on the subject who mentions the practice at all. It is completely forgotten.”

    Except in New York, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, Springfield, IL, Providence, Los Angeles, nearly all of New Jersey, etc., etc., etc., . . .

    I’m not expecting Frank to be anything other than biased. But hopelessly myopic? That’s just sad.

  11. Cronut Nom Deplume says:

    [1] grim

    Norristown is a top buyers market? For what? Section 8 investors.

    Eddie, I’d rather be dead anywhere than alive in Norristown.

  12. JJ says:

    Munis Are Now Belle of the Ball
    By John Carney
    MARKETWATCH — 10:07 PM ET 03/18/14
    The municipal-bond market seems to be pulling off one of the world’s oldest and most effective seduction ploys: playing hard to get. That could be welcome news for some big banks.

    February saw $1.77 billion come into muni-bond funds, the second month in a row of net inflows, according to Morningstar. While that is far from a pace that could make up for 2013′s $58 billion outflow, it signals the flight from munis by individual investors may finally have ended.

    Issuers still shy away from the market, though. Just $34.3 billion of new muni bonds were issued through February this year, down 33.6% year over year, according the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association. Refundings–nearly two-thirds of all muni issues last year–declined 62.3% to just $12.7 billion.

    These cross currents have buoyed muni bonds. The total return of the S&P Muni Bond Index is 3.64% for the year to date, outperforming Treasurys, high-yield debt, and top-rated corporate bonds. This could be a bright spot for banks, whose muni holdings rose 11.6% last year, according to data from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. Of the biggest banks, J.P. Morgan Chase’s muni portfolio expanded by 41% last year to $30.6 billion, while Wells Fargo (Symbol : WFC
    )’s grew by about 10% to $42.5 billion.

    Of course, the market currents still can shift. Many muni investors sell bonds in March to meet tax liabilities. Issuance is expected to climb from the January and February levels. Last week’s $8.4 billion in new issues was twice last year’s weekly average, according to Morgan Stanley.

    Now that munis are in contention to be prom queen, banks look pretty smart for asking them out last year. For investors who turned their backs, it may be too late to score a date.

  13. chicagofinance says:

    Can you be a little clearer? Not sure to whom it is directed and what you suggest they do…..

    Fast Eddie says:
    March 19, 2014 at 8:07 am
    If its a dump and some fat slob is looking for a payday, they can go fcuk themselves.

  14. Sima says:

    The paragraphs in post #2 about the job market in NJ are so true.
    Based on my experience and other laid off workers we know, the unemployment rate is dropping in NJ because people are dropped from receiving unemployment after 6 months. So they become invisible.

    Just looking at people I know – business contract people (in pharma and finance) in NJ are looking for work anywhere from 40% to over 50% of the time. That is, frequently there are MANY months between contract jobs.

    The hourly rate contract workers are getting seems to be on a downward spiral from even 2 years ago – in the pharma industry about $15 less per hour (and desperate people are begging for the jobs).

    It seems that there are more contract jobs (IT business) in NY than in NJ.
    And by the way, companies do not want to hire someone who isn’t local – fewer problems for them that way.

    So for those with jobs -life is great, but if you’re laid off and become a contract worker – than life is one of desperation and just trying to survive.
    I don’t see how NJ can fully recover in the near future.

  15. Sima says:

    And I want to throttle those academics or people who have nice secure high-paying jobs say that it is a “poor financial decision” to take Social Security at 62 rather than years later.
    No, it is not – for many it is financial desperation because they need the money to survive because they can’t get a job.
    (I am hearing this from unemployed people in their early 60s who find that they can’t get a contract or any job at all.)

  16. Cronut Nom Deplume says:

    [14] sima,

    Not just Pharma or finance. Law has always been a big player here. I know experienced, older attorneys doing doc reviews for Shiite money. I did that when I started out and I live in fear of that becoming something I might need to do again.

  17. Michael says:

    Thanks for the share anon. I think this last paragraph in the quote below, sums up some people’s way of thinking in here.

    “If you’re in the right mood, you might well agree with him. In the distant past, “opportunity” used to be something of a liberal buzzword, a way of selling welfare-state inventions of every description. The reason was simple: true equality of opportunity is not possible without achieving, well, greater equality, period. If we’re really serious about opportunity—if we’re going to ensure that every poor kid has a chance in life that is the equal of every rich kid—it’s going to require a gigantic investment in public schools, in housing, in food stamps, in infrastructure, in public projects of every description. It will necessarily mean taking on the broader problem of the One Percent along the way.

    But that was what the word meant long ago. It’s different today. When people talk about opportunity nowadays, they’re often not trying to refine the debate over inequality, they’re trying to negate it. The social function of mobility-talk is usually to excuse inequality, not to change it; to persuade us that the system we have now is fair and even natural—or that it can be made so with a few more charter schools or student loans or something. Because everyone has a chance at making it into the One Percent, this version of “opportunity” tells us, there’s nothing wrong with letting the One Percent hog every dish at the banquet.

    The well-known libertarian economist Tyler Cowen, for example, writes in his new book “Average is Over” that we increasingly inhabit a “hyper-meritocracy” in which “top earners” take home more than ever before because, duh, they’ve got the right skills and hence they deserve to take home more than top earners ever have before. The future might look bleak for less-than-top people like you, but if you fall off the ladder of opportunity there’s only one answer: Get used to it.”

  18. nwnj says:

    This could make Michael and anon’s(undersized) head explode.

    http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-03-16/want-success-choose-the-right-parents

  19. chicagofinance says:

    JJ: How was it?

    Duke p0rn star hits the stage at NYC strip club
    By Amber Sutherland

    Belle Knox Visits HeadQuarters NYC

    Belle Knox, the Duke University student who acts in p0rn to pay for her education, performs a striptease at HeadQuarters, a strip bar in Manhattan, on March 18.

    Duke p0rn star Belle Knox wiggled across the stage at a Hell’s Kitchen strip club Tuesday night, as the infamous Blue Devil made her debut as an erotic dancer in New York.

    “This is my first time dancing,” Knox told The Post just before hitting the stage. “I’m nervous, but I think it’ll be really empowering.”

    Knox rocked a plaid miniskirt as she strutted the stage at about 10:30 p.m. and danced to the glam rock anthem “Cherry Pie” before shedding her top and shaking her moneymaker for the packed crowd.

    “I chose the song ‘Cherry Pie.’ It’s young, it’s cute, it’s fun to dance to,” the comely coed gushed. “I’m still shocked that I have fans. I few months ago, I was like a normal girl.”

    The p0rn actress — who is planning to make thousands with books, films and her own sex-toy line — said she didn’t even have time to practice her routine. She said she watched some YouTube stripper videos to learn the basics.

    “I’ve been so busy, I haven’t been able to practice anything,” said Knox.

    One club patron came to see Knox dance after watching her CNN interview, and said he was impressed by her routine.

    “She’s an attractive girl,” the fan said. “I think she’s admirable. She stands for something. She speaks with conviction.”

    The coed has made headlines after being outed by a fellow student.

    She has said her p0rn career is a pro-feminist statement.

    She said she plans to continue her education even though her career has sparked controversy.

  20. Michael says:

    This sums it up. It’s not an attack on someone that worked hard and became successful. It’s an attack on the unfairness of the circumstances. Rob 5,ooo from a bank, and go to jail for a long time. Rob 50 million through fraud, and a slap on the wrist. Don’t pay your mortgage and you lose your house. Make tons of bad calls on investments and receive a bailout, along with a bonus for doing such a good job. How can you cry about someone on welfare, when someone received a bonus for taking down the economy. Yes, lottery type bonus payouts for doing such a great job! How do I get one of those jobs?

    “Even with those assumptions it’s not so simple. Why should Americans work to ensure that everyone has a fair chance to join the ruling class, if the great principle of that ruling class is unfairness? Why should Americans compete on the level if what we’re trying to win is admission to a fraternity of thieves?

    Let me explain. A meritocracy requires more than simply making it possible for people at the bottom to climb the ladder of opportunity. It also involves chutes of accountability for those at the top. These are two sides of the same coin: the skilled must be able to rise, but grandees caught with their snouts in the trough must also come tumbling down. “We cannot have a just society that applies the principle of accountability to the powerless and the principle of the forgiveness to the powerful,” writes Chris Hayes in his sweeping meditation on meritocracy, “Twilight of the Elites.” And yet: “This is the America in which we currently reside.””

  21. joyce says:

    List the names of the people here who defend this hypocrisy?

    Michael says:
    March 19, 2014 at 10:48 am
    This sums it up. It’s not an attack on someone that worked hard and became successful. It’s an attack on the unfairness of the circumstances. Rob 5,ooo from a bank, and go to jail for a long time. Rob 50 million through fraud, and a slap on the wrist. Don’t pay your mortgage and you lose your house. Make tons of bad calls on investments and receive a bailout, along with a bonus for doing such a good job. How can you cry about someone on welfare, when someone received a bonus for taking down the economy

  22. Michael says:

    I don’t mean to keep posting quotes from this article, but damn, they really drive home the problems we are facing.

    “There was a mysterious inability to get “excessive pay” under control at bailed-out banks, and so few prosecutions of the banksters who did all this to us that Obama’s Justice Department made George W. Bush’s Justice Department look like an Everest of moral virtue. In a 2012 speech, the head of Obama’s Criminal Division even announced in a public speech that he was sometimes persuaded when banks and corporations asked him not to prosecute because that might cause the company in question to fail and thus hurt the economy—a courtesy that American prosecutors extend to no other group of professionals and that, by its nature, makes a joke of the idea of equality before the law. Obama can hand out full college scholarships to every single toddler deemed worthy, and he will never recover the faith in fair play that one speech destroyed.”

  23. Michael says:

    Corporate blackmailing of the govt. When is the govt going to turn the table, and say if you dont’ play by our rules, you can’t do business here. It’s as simple as that. Don’t give stupid tax breaks just so they keep the business in your state or town. It’s worthless.

    “the head of Obama’s Criminal Division even announced in a public speech that he was sometimes persuaded when banks and corporations asked him not to prosecute because that might cause the company in question to fail and thus hurt the economy”

  24. Cronut Nom Deplume says:

    Quelle surprise.

    http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/19/news/economy/obamacare-doctors/index.html?iid=HP_LN

    ” . . . Like Durheim, many Americans who’ve enrolled on the Obamacare exchanges are realizing they have access to a relatively limited set of doctors and hospitals. In many areas, the largest hospitals are not participating and many doctors are not accepting the coverage.

    That’s by design. To keep premiums down for silver and bronze plans, insurers narrowed the networks of doctors and hospitals, often excluding the priciest and most specialized providers.”

    But hey, if you like your doctor, you can keep him. Just don’t expect coverage.

  25. Cronut Nom Deplume says:

    More grist for the mill. Another study saying that wealth is fleeing NJ.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101506720

    Discuss!

  26. joyce says:

    Not to mention multiple thousand dollar deductibles… so when people actually need to use their “insurance” they realize they’ve really bought nothing.

    Cronut Nom Deplume says:
    March 19, 2014 at 11:19 am
    Quelle surprise.

    http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/19/news/economy/obamacare-doctors/index.html?iid=HP_LN

    ” . . . Like Durheim, many Americans who’ve enrolled on the Obamacare exchanges are realizing they have access to a relatively limited set of doctors and hospitals. In many areas, the largest hospitals are not participating and many doctors are not accepting the coverage.

    That’s by design. To keep premiums down for silver and bronze plans, insurers narrowed the networks of doctors and hospitals, often excluding the priciest and most specialized providers.”

    But hey, if you like your doctor, you can keep him. Just don’t expect coverage.

  27. Happy Renter says:

    [11] “Norristown is a top buyers market? For what? Section 8 investors.”

    Sad but true.

  28. Happy Renter says:

    Abe Vigoda > Ukrainian Crimea

    Someone had to say it.

  29. Cronut Nom Deplume says:

    [27] Joyce,

    Lower cost plans are designed to be “cat health” plans so they aren’t for everyone. The article subject picked the wrong plan. ATEOTD, she gets her docs and saves less, if anything.

  30. joyce says:

    31
    Comrade,

    Yes, I agree. But I’m not referring to the lowest of the low plans, the silver level with not cheap premium payments have approx. $5,000 deductibles and up. People with those plans bought nothing but a monthly payment.

  31. Cronut Nom Deplume says:

    [32] Joyce,

    Agreed, but I never said otherwise nor have I endorsed it.

  32. Cronut Nom Deplume says:

    Something to get anon stiff . . .

    http://newdemocracyworld.org/revolution/how.html

  33. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    JJ it is nice but one problem route 36 in the summer. Hell 36 anytime of year unless your taking the seastreak downtown then it is an awesome location

  34. Painhrtz - unegalitarian says:

    Nom where do you find that trash?

  35. Libturd in the City says:

    As promised…I’ll calculate an average police offers retirement in our neck of the woods.
    I have a friend who is on the Glen Ridge force. There is nothing special about him. He’s a nice guy, he’s active on Facebook and he represents the average police officer on our local force. He has served 12 years on the force, is currently 40 years old and his title is police officer. His annual salary is $94,000.

    Assuming he retires with 30 years of service and his current salary increases between 2% to 3% per year, his final salary would be $140,000. Now most officers in their final years, work a lot of overtime to juice their pension, but I’ll be conservative here and suggest we use $150,000 as his final compensation. So if he retires at 58 years old with 30 years of service, his pension will be:

    $105,000.00 per year, or $8,750.00 per month.

    He is also eligible to convert his group life insurance for an additional $1314 per month. So that’s $10,000 per month for life or $120,000 per year.

    How much did this officer pay in? Former rate (prior to 2011) was 8.5% of current base salary (OVERTIME IS NOT INCLUDED). Christie raised it to 10%. If we say his average salary over his 30 years of service was 100K (which I think is quite fair), then he contributed a total of… (this is where you grab your barf bag) $285,000.

    $285,000 in and with a life expectancy of 82 years (not even mentioning that his wife will get paid $75K per year after he croaks until she dies), he will receive $2,880,000.

    Him and his spouse will also receive healthcare coverage for life. This minor benefit at current costs works out to another $500,000 for the couple according to AARP, and that’s only from age 67 to death. I couldn’t get a number for the nine years between his retirement at 58 and age 67.

    So we’ll conservatively call the final number….$3,500,000.

    Now let’s prove that compounding doesn’t turn $285,000 into $3,500,000.

    $10,000 average annual contribution/12 with a 7.9% interest rate (what NJ uses) times 30 years = $1.2 million at the start of retirement.

    This 1.2 million will run out (using the same 7.9%) interest rate, after 19 years and 5 months. Keep in mind, this does not include the cost of the healthcare benefit which would make it run out significantly earlier. For the pension to be whole, the total amount required would be $1.3 million. But then there is the question of the 7.9% interest rate, my conservative life expectancy number and so many other factors.

    Check out this snippet I found when performing this research…

    Today there is a 25% chance that a healthy 65-year-old man will reach age 92, a woman age 94, and for one spouse in a married couple to live to age 97.

    The source for this estimate is the 2000 Individual Annuitant Mortality Table, provided by the Society of Actuaries.

    So where did I mess up here Michael? This is your average police officer. It’s no different for your average teacher, fireman, garbage hauler or school superintendent. What say you?

  36. Happy Renter says:

    [37] Thanks for writing up this real-world example of what we all know to be true, but are too lazy (or too busy working as the taxpaying suckers we are) to do.

  37. Michael says:

    26- Honestly the flight probably has a lot more to do with other factors than taxes. Most likely, the factors would be retirement, looking to avoid child support, or maybe just like warm weather. Florida attracts the biggest dirtbags with their laws. Why would you not have a law forcing child support, it just attracts dirtbags. Why would you want to attract dads that get random women pregnant, leaving you with the bill of taking care of the single mother household.

  38. Libturd in the City says:

    I can’t believe a 12th year local cop makes $94,000.

  39. joyce says:

    Right and that’s base. They still work just 36hr/week before OT kicks in?
    I’ve seen the salary step schedule for my local town’s PD. One of them bitch-d and moaned a lot when they went from 5 years to 7 years in order to max out.

    Libturd in the City says:
    March 19, 2014 at 12:54 pm
    I can’t believe a 12th year local cop makes $94,000.

  40. Michael says:

    37- Where did you account for the govt’s contribution?

  41. joyce says:

    In their salary, OT, benefits, etc….

    Michael says:
    March 19, 2014 at 1:01 pm
    37- Where did you account for the govt’s contribution?

  42. 1987 Condo says:

    #40..I have seen that the average in north jersey is $100,000 at year 10

  43. Michael says:

    Is it all on the worker?

  44. 1987 Condo says:

    Can someone verify, I do not think Police in NJ get Social Security…..
    Compare North Jersey cops to NYC, I bet NYC cops take an additional 10 years to get to 100k, if they even get there, and I say working in Bed Sty might be tougher than Ridgewood or Glen Ridge?

  45. joyce says:

    Well, when you have an incorrect view on this topic (and most), it doesn’t surprise me you come to erroneous conclusions. I wonder what the statistic is on how many companies that offer 401(k) plans actually contribute to them as a benefit to the worker. My guess is very very few of the small/medium businesses do so. But I guess Michael believes the average CEO gets paid $10MM too … and that doesn’t just refer to the top 100 companies or whatever.

    Michael says:
    March 18, 2014 at 1:55 pm

    Think of a 401k, if the company wasn’t paying their matching contribution for 20 years, don’t you think that would be a problem

  46. Libturd in the City says:

    Glen Ridge is very rough. The other day, I saw a car not yield to a pedestrian in the crosswalk.

  47. Libturd in the City says:

    Since 1990, the police contribute and collect from SS.

  48. chicagofinance says:

    I am strongly offput by the fact that Obama is out there with his college picks. There is a lot of sh!t going down right now. It makes him appear like a cartoon character. Putin is a thug and Obama is sitting around making champagne toasts, and for lack of a better description, just being a putz.

  49. Libturd in the City says:

    Don’t make me do a teacher Michael.

  50. Cronut Nom Deplume says:

    [36] pain

    Opposition research.

    Seriously, you can find all manner of trash on the internet. Ask anon.

  51. 1987 Condo says:

    A few years ago our town offered 0-0-0 to the Police. Arbitrator ruled for 4-4-4. This was after recession 2009-2012. Teachers got 0-1-1. Arbitration works best for Police. New police contract 2-2-2.

  52. Cronut Nom Deplume says:

    More of Chifi’s neighbors in the news

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101507606

  53. Libturd in the City says:

    What’s more important? Charming his base of future voters who also went gaga over Bill Clinton on the sax or worrying about some internal squabble in Russia?

    http://tinyurl.com/o8rfkux

  54. Libturd in the City says:

    Condo. When it’s all said and done, the police will always get their 3% regardless of the economy. They are protected class.

  55. Michael says:

    You guys have me confused. So you are saying the state doesn’t contribute to the pension, that it is all on the worker? So why does the state have their hand in the cookie jar, if its not theirs? Why all this talk of the state making its pension payment, if they don’t contribute.

  56. Michael says:

    and believe me….I hate paying the cops too. In case you didn’t realize that from all my posts. Teachers and other state workers, I feel bad for. Teachers get crapped on a regular basis, compared to cops and firefighters. Dont’ know why teachers get grouped with cops and firefighters. I think teachers get crapped on because they are made up of a majority of women. So they get picked on, because it’s easy to attack them. Roid head cops, good luck trying to attack them.

  57. Michael says:

    look at the retirement age for cops. Look at the salaries. Look at the % they receive from their pension. Teachers and other state workers get none of this.

  58. Libturd in the City says:

    Yes Michael, the state (you and I) involuntarily contribute to pension plans. I’m not quite sure why?

    If you are interested in learning more, here’s a nice guide to some of the recent changes made to NJ’s big three pensions funds.

    http://crr.bc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/New-Jersey.pdf

  59. Libturd in the City says:

    “look at the retirement age for cops. Look at the salaries. Look at the % they receive from their pension. Teachers and other state workers get none of this.”

    Uh oh…don’t make me do another math problem.

  60. Michael says:

    60- So where in your compounding, did you account for the state’s contribution?

  61. Michael says:

    Then do it for the teachers. Would love to see this. I don’t think teachers are overpaid. My wife laughed at becoming a teacher…..she said she would never settle for that kind of money. Wasn’t even an option for her. But you are right, going to college, and topping out at 90-100,000 is amazing. I’m so jealous (sarcasm).

    “Libturd in the City says:
    March 19, 2014 at 1:33 pm
    “look at the retirement age for cops. Look at the salaries. Look at the % they receive from their pension. Teachers and other state workers get none of this.”

    Uh oh…don’t make me do another math problem.”

  62. joyce says:

    Look Look Look
    Why can’t you just show us something, anything with some numbers & arithmetic?

    Michael says:
    March 19, 2014 at 1:29 pm
    look at the retirement age for cops. Look at the salaries. Look at the % they receive from their pension. Teachers and other state workers get none of this.

  63. Libturd in the City says:

    And no one I know craps on teachers or any other public workers. I just like to remind them to save outside of their pensions as I really can’t see how they will be paid in full as promised.

    Our teachers get tons of gifts, parents volunteer to help out in the classrooms. Tons of supplies are donated, etc. I do not know of a single case where any of these servants are disrespected.

    Yes, the liberal playbook likes to equate any attack on public workers benefits as an attack on their profession or individual person, but it simply is not true. I respect the police, the firefighters and feel they are paid fairly. It’s the benefits that have gotten out of control in exchange for the union’s endorsement and their member’s votes.

    Over the years, the story has changed. At one time, the union would argue that the high pensions were needed to attract the best candidates so they wouldn’t run off to the private sector to garner a higher salary. Then the story changed to, we should be equally compensated to our counterparts in the private sector. Meanwhile, the benefits in the private sector were being gutted to nearly none. Very few people I know collect a pension and the 401K match is nearly gone. Then there is the comparison of health care benefits and all of a sudden, the average public sector has gained a huge leg up on the average private sector worker. Today in the private sector, it’s don’t attack me for what I was promised when I took the job. The liberal playbook has changed their story to one where they claim that the public worker is the middle classes last stand and if we don’t maintain fair benefits here, then corporations will be less likely to provide them for their (private sector) workers. And then there is the argument that every school teacher, fireman and police officer would have become Fortune 500 CEOs if they chose not to work in the public sector.

    Where were these public workers when Gator and my company terminated their pension plans, drastically cut their 401K match to a mere pittance and raised our health care contributions so much that it ate up more than our piddly salary increases?

    Oh right. They were saying that their benefits need to be protected to maintain the middle class. The middle class to which they are forcing the former middle class to directly pay for.

  64. Libturd in the City says:

    Michael,

    My son’s kindergarten teacher in Montclair made 104 K per year (without her masters) to work months of the year. In kindergarten, there’s no homework to check and really, not much of a lesson plan to create. There’s no standardized tests to teach to, there’s no after class help to provide and my son’s class had 3 aides to boot. She worked 185 days per year. Her work day was 6 hours (not to mention the hour lunch break) and she regularly received bonuses for longevity and other cokcamamie things that are unheard of in the real world. My mom was a teacher. I know how it works. Stop believing everything you read in Mother Jones and open your eyes.

  65. chicagofinance says:

    Absolutely classic….

    Libturd in the City says:
    March 19, 2014 at 1:17 pm
    What’s more important? Charming his base of future voters who also went gaga over Bill Clinton on the sax or worrying about some internal squabble in Russia?

    http://tinyurl.com/o8rfkux

  66. Anon E. Moose says:

    Michael [63];

    Read “The Millionaire Next Door”. As is relevant to your post, regarding the ‘typical’ American millionaire:

    About two-thirds of [the 80%] who are working are self-employed…
    The number-one occupation for those wives who do work is teacher.

    (link)

    If one’s spouse was bringing in platinum, i.e., public-’servant’, benefits, that would take a HUGE burden off a fledgling start-up business, and very easily swing the outcome towards its eventual success rather than failure. The spouse’s paycheck is almost immaterial.

  67. Libturd in the City says:

    Trust me. I do feel bad for these suckers who truly believed they would get what they were promised when they signed on for these jobs. But we all know that people who want to teach do it for philanthropic reasons, not to be rich. And the vast majority of cops and firefighters were the class clowns of their generation. Not to take anything away from them and the dangers of their job, but no one forces them to do it. For the most part, they did not follow the college prep track in their adolescence. But we should pay them all like executives because they protect or teach Graydon and Phoebe.

  68. Michael says:

    What crappy companies do you guys work for? They don’t match the 401k? My wife works for Vornado, and they match up to 5%. Her health insurance plan is better than my sister, who is a teacher in Paterson. My bro-in-law has a pension at Ernst & Young. What kind of slave drivers do you guys work for? Do they expect you to ever be able to retire? My brother, who is a licensed plumber, even gets a 401k matching contribution from his company. These companies cutting their 401k contributions to you guys should be ashamed of themselves. They are creating a huge problem down the line for this country, where you are going to have a bunch of people who can’t survive without some sort of retirement plan.

    “Meanwhile, the benefits in the private sector were being gutted to nearly none. Very few people I know collect a pension and the 401K match is nearly gone”

  69. Libturd in the City says:

    I used to get a 7% match. It’s now down to 3%. Who do you work for Michael?

  70. chicagofinance says:

    No sh!t…..I can almost see his house from my front lawn…..walk down the street a few hundred feet……

    Cronut Nom Deplume says:
    March 19, 2014 at 1:16 pm
    More of Chifi’s neighbors in the news

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101507606

  71. Michael says:

    68- So you are saying that teachers play a vital role in helping our economy, you know by helping these businesses to succeed. (just doing what you guys do to me….a little taste of your own medicine)

    “If one’s spouse was bringing in platinum, i.e., public-’servant’, benefits, that would take a HUGE burden off a fledgling start-up business, and very easily swing the outcome towards its eventual success rather than failure. The spouse’s paycheck is almost immaterial.”

  72. joyce says:

    70
    Michael,
    So you assume your inner circle is a microcosm of everyone else? Or to be a bit fairer, the entire state? To really shock your world, no we did not all have a family member give us their house at 20% off as a graduation gift either.

  73. Michael says:

    66- My sister is a teacher. She makes nothing for 15 years. Almost no raise for 15 years. If you call 200 dollars a year a raise, then they do. So for 15 years she makes I think 55,000 avg. Then for the other 15 years, she gets to make 100,000. She went to school for 2 degrees. How is this overpaid? Who is going to go into debt paying for school, miss out on yearly earnings while in school, go through the hard work earning 2 degrees, and then work at a job starting at 40,000 and topping out at 70,000. NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND!

  74. Libturd in the City says:

    No one forced her to do it and you don’t need two degrees to teach school. The problem is, there is such an abundance of people who want to teach that wannabee teachers are coming in overqualified. And there’s no shame in working for 55K. I did it for 5 years with no benefit outside of healthcare. Heck, I started at 18K per year with 7 years of education.

    I really think we’ve raised a generation of pussies.

  75. 30 year realtor says:

    JJ – A while back you claimed that listing agent for FNMA cannot see offers inputted on Homepath. This is not true. Listing agent sees everything!

  76. Michael says:

    76- You don’t come off sounding too smart here ( I know you are smart). So you are saying you would go to college to earn 55,000 a year? There’s no shame in working for 55,000, but it is pure stupidity to go to college to make 55,000 a year. It makes no sense whatsoever. You have to figure minimum wage is pretty close to 20,000 (at 10 an hour), so you are going to go to college to make twice the minimum wage? You didn’t raise a generation of pussies, you raised a generation not stupid enough to work their life away for nothing. Refusing to let someone make off and profit through cheap labor.

    “Libturd in the City says:
    March 19, 2014 at 2:28 pm
    No one forced her to do it and you don’t need two degrees to teach school. The problem is, there is such an abundance of people who want to teach that wannabee teachers are coming in overqualified. And there’s no shame in working for 55K. I did it for 5 years with no benefit outside of healthcare. Heck, I started at 18K per year with 7 years of education.

    I really think we’ve raised a generation of pussies.”

  77. Libturd in the City says:

    Michael,

    I’m much smarter than you think. What did you pay for your education? I bet I paid 1 tenth of what you paid. When I graduated, the economy was in the toilet. I took what I could get (I didn’t have mommy or daddy to help me). My first professional job was crappy from a compensation standpoint, but it allowed me to hone my management skills and the position offered me enough autonomy to practice what I was taught in my masters classes. I knew I wasn’t going to grow rich there, but I was getting more knowledge and experience there than I would get anyplace else then and now. Made the big jump up in salary at my next gig, which is still my current gig. I wouldn’t have even been considered for it without the experience I earned in the prior job, nor would I have wowed them in the interview. The best part of the hiring process, besides the first class airfare and lodging to meet with people at headquarters and to meet with my future super in Los Angeles was that I drew a line in the sand as to the minimum salary I would accept. After six months of their recruiting, they came back 5K short. I immediately rejected their offer and they acted surprised. The next day they met it by making incentives that I would have to meet, which I far surpassed. Out of college, I would not have had the confidence or street smarts to make such a move. So what did you pay for your higher education and where did you go? And how did you pay for it? I bet mommy and daddy footed your bill.

  78. Pete says:

    #68,

    “About two-thirds of [the 80%] who are working are self-employed…
    The number-one occupation for those wives who do work is teacher.”

    People read too much in to this stat. You can take non-millionaires and the number one occupation of wives would be teachers also. Why? Because there are a lots of female teachers of course.

    If I were to try and make the connection I think the child rearing benefit of aligned school schedules weighs heavier than the health benefits.

    Also, you left out the part where 50% of their wives don’t work at all.

  79. Libturd in the City says:

    I think anyone who chooses to teach is actually really smart. I’m not saying it’s an easy gig, but the benefits are great and it is truly a rewarding profession. Plus, I would love to see my kids squirm when I ran into them at the local supermarket.

  80. anon (6)-

    Since when am I a “right winger”? I loathe most conservatives as much as I do liberals. People in the gubmint who are real statesmen and really care about the country (these days, exactly zero people) don’t label themselves.

    You are a dolt and a troll. Back to ignoring you.

  81. chi (20)-

    Big upgrade in Dook women since my UNC days. Back then, most Dookie girls had back hair and halitosis.

    “Belle Knox, the Duke University student who acts in p0rn to pay for her education, performs a striptease at HeadQuarters, a strip bar in Manhattan, on March 18.”

    Go to hell Dook.

  82. Bystander says:

    Michael,

    Take the silver spoon out of your a$$. All IBs I know have been cutting back 401k match for several years, 7% to 5%. Freeze on raises and little bonus. This is norm for anyone in middle or back office. They continue to outsource like mad. Not sure what coddled industry you are in but 115k jobs are common for any MBA, CPAs with 10yrs + experience. No one wants them but be unemployed on 6-8 mos. and 100k will be welcome. Geez, reality..the finance industry is still treading water

  83. Richard says:

    Median wage for a college grad in USA is $56k. I dont know what planet you’re on.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States#By_educational_attainment

    Michael says:
    March 19, 2014 at 2:47 pm

    76- You don’t come off sounding too smart here ( I know you are smart). So you are saying you would go to college to earn 55,000 a year? There’s no shame in working for 55,000, but it is pure stupidity to go to college to make 55,000 a year. It makes no sense whatsoever. You have to figure minimum wage is pretty close to 20,000 (at 10 an hour), so you are going to go to college to make twice the minimum wage? You didn’t raise a generation of pussies, you raised a generation not stupid enough to work their life away for nothing. Refusing to let someone make off and profit through cheap labor.

  84. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    70K, double the median salary, summers off, boatload of holidays during the year. Yeah sounds miserable. I’m sure there are a ton of people who would love to have her misery are equally qualified and would do it for 50K. this is not an attack on teachers merely the truth.

    I absolutely love when teachers and their defenders decry how poorly they are paid how tough the job is. You chose your career knowing the compensation going in, it is not like this is a new revelation.

    Clot the duke chick really isn’t that hot. great bod sure but you would have to look at her and listen to her feminist screeds no thanks.

  85. chicagofinance says:

    Found out more…..prominent local family in the community…wife taken for a ride apparently…..

    chicagofinance says:
    March 19, 2014 at 2:13 pm
    No sh!t…..I can almost see his house from my front lawn…..walk down the street a few hundred feet……

    Cronut Nom Deplume says:
    March 19, 2014 at 1:16 pm
    More of Chifi’s neighbors in the news

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101507606

  86. pain (86)-

    Not to be the anti-feminist, but most Dook women I’ve met, I just want to punch in the mouth.

    Just looked this one up; definite butter face.

    “Clot the duke chick really isn’t that hot. great bod sure but you would have to look at her and listen to her feminist screeds no thanks.”

  87. Something really humorous about a p0rn actress issuing feminist screeds.

  88. chicagofinance says:

    I finally located Michael:
    This wasn’t chump change. A public works inspector pleaded guilty Wednesday to stealing 1.8 million quarters — worth $450,000 — from a New Jersey village.

    Prosecutors said that over the course of two years, Thomas Rica literally stuffed his pockets with quarters from the Village of Ridgewood’s meter collection room.

    Rica, 43, lost his job with the village in January 2013 after he was arrested and charged with stealing $500 in coins from the Village Hall’s collection room, where collected parking meter quarters are stored.

    But Bergen County officials investigated further and learned that Rica had stolen more than just pocket change.

    Officials said Rica, who was not authorized to be in the room, sneaked the coins out and deposited them in his bank account.

    Rica, who appeared in court Wednesday, was charged with fourth-degree theft and hindering apprehension.

    Under the plea deal, Rica will avoid jail time, but must repay the money within five years while he serves probation.

    He can also never work for another municipality.

  89. Cronut Nom Deplume says:

    [83] clot

    By Friday night, I will probably be hating Duke. By Sunday, I hope to see them out of the tournament.

  90. Cronut Nom Deplume says:

    [6] anon,

    Clot is right. He’s more of a nihilist than anything. But that doesn’t mean he won’t gladly cap you in the event of TEOTWAWKI.

  91. Michael says:

    Just playing devils advocate here. So basically the same could be said to you, if you knew teaching was such an amazing job, why aren’t you doing it? Why would you go into other fields, if you think this is the best job out there?

    Nothing for nothing, takes a special person to be around kids all day. Kids are annoying as hell. I would go nuts, esp when they keep saying “I don’t get it”. Even worst, after listening to the kid say he doesn’t get it, you have to then listen to the parents blame it on you, as to why their kid doesn’t get it.

    The teaching field has the highest turnover rate. Avg teacher lasts 5 years. If the job is so great, and pays so much, why the high turnover rate?

    “I absolutely love when teachers and their defenders decry how poorly they are paid how tough the job is. You chose your career knowing the compensation going in, it is not like this is a new revelation.”

  92. Michael says:

    Why would I care about that figure? I live in northern nj, and 56k is laughable here. Did it ever occur to you that the rest of the country brings that # down. Do that figure based on California, md, nj, NYC, ct, and ma. Then I will respect the avg. Right now you have places like Alabama and Iowa bringing down those #s.

    “Richard says:
    March 19, 2014 at 4:25 pm
    Median wage for a college grad in USA is $56k. I dont know what planet you’re on.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States#By_educational_attainment

  93. jcer says:

    Teachers are public servants. It’s not working at an ibank, coincidentally my wife is hiring college kids now for operations work, pay is like 60k and for that hey are expected to work at least 60hrs a week. You are really out of touch, nobody owns you when you’re a teacher like in the private sector where they want the last drop of blood.

  94. Michael says:

    Listen, maybe I come off the wrong way, but I respect every single person here. Everyone on this board is what this country needs. People that take time out of their busy days to come on this board and through debate, increase their knowledge of how our society works. I learn a lot here, and let’s face it, you can’t learn about this stuff, without access to the individuals in this board. This is sort of like the philosophical lounges of the enlightenment period, except we do it electronically, as opposed to in person. If the entire population of citizens took part in boards like this, you can bet that this country would be that much better for it.

    Now I really want to understand this pension issue. Libtard, is there anyway that you can figure out an equation that would account for the state’s contribution? I really want to understand this, since it’s really complicated.

  95. Michael says:

    96- ok, maybe we can get somewhere if I try this a different way. I’m saying that it’s not the teachers that are overpaid, it’s the nature of how the private sector (basically workers that have no leverage vs their boss…just be happy you have a job type deal) is getting the living sh!t kicked out of them by the corporate elite. Is it a coincidence that the private sector is jealous of the union worker? It’s obvious the union worker has leverage, which the private sector does not. To solve this problem, the private sector must unite, meaning don’t do a job for less than the next guy, just for the sake of having a job. If all the private workers united, boycotted work for a week, you would see things change. A boss is never going to say I have extra money, here are your raises. He is always going to play the broke game. Unless you create leverage, you will get crapped on. As long as the workers continue to fight each other, by doing a job for less than they should, the private sector is dead. How long will it take to get the private sector to rise up and fight for their rights again, is anyone’s guess. It took almost a 100 years of complete crapping on the worker in factory systems for the last labor movement to come about. Now that most of that movement’s gains have been lost, another labor movement has to be coming down the pipeline.

    jcer says:
    March 19, 2014 at 6:11 pm
    Teachers are public servants. It’s not working at an ibank, coincidentally my wife is hiring college kids now for operations work, pay is like 60k and for that hey are expected to work at least 60hrs a week. You are really out of touch, nobody owns you when you’re a teacher like in the private sector where they want the last drop of blood.

  96. Ragnar says:

    I’m divided on the government worker pensions.
    If a government agency tells someone they’re going to receive X dollars and benefits until they die, I think that’s a promise that should be kept, because that sounds like a contract to me. Someone’s retirement shouldn’t be put up to public vote every few years.

    The problem is bad incentives and management of pension promises in the government sector vs the private sector. In the corporate world, there is a lot of disclosure and decent if confusing accounting for pension obligations. So when managers of a company make pension promises, they know it’s going to cost a lot of money to fulfill them, though they cannot actually predict exactly how much (because it depends upon actuarial assumptions as well as how successful pension asset investments work out). So corporations take the promising of pension benefits very seriously.

    In contrast, the public sector doesn’t have a profit and loss orientation. Politicians have the incentive to promise things that will be some other politician’s (and the taxpayers’) problem in the future. And the accounting for government pension promises is terrible, from what I’ve heard. So politicians get away with cooking the books and transferring problems to the future, until they cannot, turning into a cash flow crisis.

    What the government sector really needs is transparency and accountability when it comes to these deals. In terms of the viability of current pensions and the true costs of new promises.

    Given the difficulty of solving this issue, Clot’s proposal to arm the children seems increasingly appealing.

  97. joyce says:

    99
    Ragnar,
    Regarding the promised pension being a benefit, I understand the sentiment behind that. However, I would couple that with providing the benefit which was promised at the time of higher (since the promises improve over the 20-25 years of their service). Now, if the promised benefits for new hires are mathematically impossible to fulfill, that’s another problem in and of itself.

  98. anon (the good one) says:

    this is your opportunity to become rich

    @NJSP: Career Night, Mercer County Community College, March 20, 2014, 7pm-9pm. Recruiters will be present. http://t.co/5s8V1sQqdc

  99. Michael says:

    99- Ragner, that was really well written. You really broke the problem down for both sides without pushing one sides agenda.

    I knew the equation to come up with the pension #s (the one’s Joyce kept asking me for…and I said I don’t know) was complicated. Kept trying to tell Joyce it’s not a simple equation. It can’t just be broken down based on one individual. Way too many variables at play.

  100. Michael says:

    I don’t know who invented the whole pension idea, but I’m sure they didn’t understand the complex mathematical equation for future payouts (since it’s impossible unless you can predict the future value of the investments). I’m sure they looked at it as a Ponzi, meaning current workers carry the load for the retired. It’s the only way they could have looked at it, how else can you accept that the first retirees never put into the system and will collect. Makes me think the same thing about social security. Being that the first social security benefits collected without putting in. So the creators of social security and pension, never cared about the mathematics of future payouts, all they cared about was the mathematics of current payouts, meaning current workers supporting the retired worker. Based on this way of thinking, the system would only go broke if we have too many retirees and too little workers, which is why everyone in govt started panicking about social security in the late 90′s. They saw the effect of the baby boomer generation retiring and started panicking. This is what we are going through now. Too many retirees and not enough workers. It’s all making sense now. Lol…at least I think it is. Now show me why I’m wrong and show me what I’m missing.

  101. Ben says:

    Michael, the pension system is insolvent and unsustainable. Those promises will never be kept and they will renegotiate them down when the time comes. Personally, I want out of the pension system but the union fights tooth and nail any time the idea of giving someone the choice to opt out even comes up? Why? The second I and any other new hires opt out, default will happen soon after.

  102. Ben says:

    70K, double the median salary, summers off, boatload of holidays during the year. Yeah sounds miserable. I’m sure there are a ton of people who would love to have her misery are equally qualified and would do it for 50K. this is not an attack on teachers merely the truth.

    I absolutely love when teachers and their defenders decry how poorly they are paid how tough the job is. You chose your career knowing the compensation going in, it is not like this is a new revelation.

    I can tell you, as a teacher, they aren’t crying how poorly they are paid. They are trying to defend how much they are paid against a consistent public outcry to lower their salaries.

    Honestly, it’s not difficult to succeed as a teacher if you have the skills. But I can guarantee that, regardless of how good you are, you’ll work night and day non stop if you are dedicated. The public sentiment loves to write this off or not believe it at all, probably because they had some scumbag lazy bum that was their 10th grade teacher.

    I’ve worked other jobs before. I hear people all the time say how easy the job must be, how you don’t work past 3, or how much they are overpaid. Me personally, I’d be willing to bet any person $10k in cash that they wouldn’t last a year without admitting that they were wrong if they tried it themselves.

  103. joyce says:

    Today’s another solid example demonstrating Michael’s bi-polar mood swings.

  104. joyce says:

    I liked it better when he called everyone a racist as well as claiming someone said something, then telling them they were wrong.

  105. joyce says:

    Michael,
    If you don’t know how to use a financial calculator or excel to run some simulations based on yearly salary, increases, contributions, future value, discount rate, years of service, pension amount…. then burn your degree (or should I say diploma). You can do it for one person and include life expectancy, employee, turnover, etc, which takes into account large samples of people. So, yes you can simply to get a snap shot to use in this discussion.

    You make a lot of bold statements (bold because they’re so asinine), yet never back any of them up with anything except your deep thinking & feelings. In addition, after making incorrect generalizations about people here as well as the public at large, you dodge every question. Why not answer libtard’s questions regarding how you paid for college, employment, et al?

  106. joyce says:

    Hope this link works:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhJIvLt209KFdGxVQnBaUFVVa0loSUxkMUtjcy1MYVE#gid=0

    Assumptions
    Starting Salary 80,000
    Yearly Salary Increase 3.0%
    Pension Contribution 10.0%
    Discount Rate 7.9%
    Pension Withdrawal 65.0% (of yearly salary average over last:
    Pension Withdrawal 5 years)
    Yearly Pension COLA 2.0%
    Years of Service 25

    In deficit after 10 years of retiring

  107. Michael says:

    108- Joyce, if this board took place in the back of some bar, I bet you and me would end the night in the back of the car, you def have it for me.

    Maybe I am bi-polar, but I think it’s more likely due to my passion…the heat of the debate sort of thing.

  108. Wag says:

    Christie recently admitted to a 54 billion dollar pension shortfall, this is what is admitted to in public. The actual numbers, are horrifying. We are bankrupt and keep spending ourselves into oblivion. Simply a matter of when.

  109. joyce says:

    Thanks again for not responding to any point made… perhaps Mikey takes lessons from Fabius.

  110. Libturd at home says:

    Michael. Haven’t been able to find the state contribution to the pensions. I think they all stopped keeping track once they decided it wouldn’t help much even if they were paid.

  111. Wag says:

    Stu (113) – Take a look here: http://burypensions.wordpress.com
    Look for the March 10 update….

  112. Michael says:

    Warren Buffet’s commentary about actuaries in his 1975 letter to Mrs. Graham (head of the Washington Post) discussing pension Plan risks and investments in general, is very telling …..
    “Consulting actuaries are very good at making calculations. They are frequently terrible at making the assumptions upon which the calculations are based. In fact, they well may be particularly ill-equipped to make the most important assumptions if the world is one of economic discontinuities. They are trained to be conventional. Their self interest in obtaining and retaining business would be ill-served if they were to become more than mildly unconventional. And being conventional on the critical assumptions basically means accepting historical experience adjusted by a moderate nudge from current events. This works fine in forecasting such factors as mortality and morbidity, works reasonably well on items such as employee turnover, and can be a disaster in estimating the two most important elements of the pension cost equation, which are fund earnings and salary escalation.”

  113. Michael says:

    113- lol…that sounds about right

  114. Libturd at home says:

    Thanks Wag. The calendar year of doomsday for pensions was always projected to be between 2017 and 2019. It looks like we are right on schedule.

    “BURY NUMBERS WITH MARKET VALUE AND COLA (in billions)
    ……………………………TPAF………..PERS……..PFRS……………TOTAL
    Market Assets…………26.9…………26.8………22.6……………..76.3
    Bury/COLA Liab…….95.2…………79.8……….59.0…………..234.0
    Deficit………………….-68.3…………-53.0……….-36.4………….-157.7
    Funded Ratio………..28.3%………33.6%…….38.3%………….32.6%

    For the year ended June 30, 2013 there was about $9 billion paid out in benefits from the system. With early retirement incentives, the return of cost-of-living adjustments, longer life expectancies, and baby-boomer retirements this payout number should hit $12 billion in four years by which time the fund will be depleted (after returning the interest-adjusted contributions made by employees) unless, of course, New Jersey politicians step up and do the honorable thing. There’s a debate as to whether you can put a number on that happening.”

  115. Michael says:

    Boy was I naive. Libtard, thanks for showing me the light. Much appreciated. Now I need to go explain to my sister how she should start lobbying to her union to allow her to opt out of her pension. She is 30, so she is basically paying an extra tax to support someone’s current retirement, or better yet, support some double dipper’s second income. I’m also recommending that she should fight tooth and nail, to any pension contribution increase, as she will be getting robbed/taxed even more.

  116. Libturd at home says:

    Check out Tough Love’s comments after this article. He too has mathematically proved what you will never here. That the pensions simply can’t be paid without drastic tax increases which will not be tolerated by private sector employees with significantly lesser pay and benefits.

    http://unionwatch.org/how-much-does-professionalism-cost/

  117. Libturd at home says:

    Michael. If I could put it simply, though our politicians promised it, the math doesn’t support it. Yes it sucks for them. Even the unions know it as they would have never quietly allowed the recent reforms to take hold. IE, COLA freeze, increased employee contributions, later retirement age requirements, etc.

    Even look at Christie’s reform from 2011. He essentially promised to make the required state contributions to the pension system(s) with a payment schedule that only reaches 50% of what would be necessary for the plan to be whole (based on states actuaries) in 2015. In 2010 and 2011, he contributed only 2% of what was necessary.

    Why are the public sector unions sitting back and letting this go on? Because they too know the math doesn’t work. This issues going to come to a head during this decade. Might as well educate yourself now so when you throw your tomatoes, you can back it up with some knowledge of the issue.

  118. Wag says:

    Stu (120) – Reform is newspeak for default.

  119. Cronut Nom Deplume says:

    [106] Joyce

    Speaking of bipolar, has anyone heard from Essex of late?

  120. Cronut Nom Deplume says:

    Some time back, I mentioned that we always insist on “dispense as written.”

    I suspect that in the future, the government will order us to use generics.

    http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(10)01087-9/abstract