Is Spring the time to sell?

From the Washington Post:

The Nation’s Housing: Is spring the time to list a home?

It’s common knowledge verging on holy writ in real estate: Spring is the absolute best time of the year to sell a house.

Right?

But is there hard statistical evidence that listing your house in April, May or June — flowers blooming, birds chirping, lawns greened up after a tough winter — actually nets you a higher price or a shorter time from listing to sale?

Yes, but it’s not as clear cut as you might imagine. There are important nuances in the data. Reviews of realty industry and academic studies suggest that while sales totals generally are highest in May and June, they are actually reflecting listings, contracts and buyer searches that occur earlier in the year.

A study of 1.1 million home listings between 2011 and 2013 in 19 major markets by the national realty brokerage firm Redfin found that, contrary to popular impressions, houses put on the market in winter — defined as Dec. 21 through March 21 — had a 9 percentage point greater probability of selling within 180 days and at a smaller discount to the initial list price than houses put on the market during the spring months (March 22-June 21). The advantage jumped to 10 percentage points over summer listings (June 22-Sept. 20.) Winter listers ultimately sold for prices 1.2 percentage points higher than homes listed during any other season.

Though there were geographic differences, researchers found that even in areas with harsh winters, there were statistical advantages for listers. In Chicago there was a 13 percentage point advantage in selling time for listings initiated in the late December through mid-March period compared with listings in the summer.
In Boston, the advantage was 14 percentage points. In Los Angeles and San Diego, even with their relatively mild winters, the advantage was still evident — 9 points and 11 points, respectively. In Seattle, it was 12 points.

A study conducted by online real estate site Trulia in 2012 found that while prices on closed sales peak in May and total sales peak in June, there are significant differences geographically. Prices tend to peak in the Southern states in March and April, according to Trulia, with the exception of Florida, where the high point comes in May. California, Virginia, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey and Massachusetts prices also hit their statistical peak in May. But it’s later — between June and August — in Oregon, Illinois, Connecticut, Washington and West Virginia.

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103 Responses to Is Spring the time to sell?

  1. grim says:

    From the Real Deal:

    Million dollar homes harder to come by

    Because of rising prices and a dearth of listings, New York City homebuyers looking for an apartment in the million-dollar price range are becoming forced to make considerable concessions.

    According to a report by Douglas Elliman, the median sale price for a Manhattan apartment was $972,428 in the first quarter of the year, up 18.5 percent from the same period a year ago.

    That’s 5 percent below the peak of $1.025 million in the second quarter of 2008 — the only time the median has crossed the $1 million threshold.

    The problem is that new supply isn’t growing fast enough to meet the demand for apartments priced at $1 million or less. Although they still make up the bulk of the Manhattan market, that piece has shrunk considerably.

    About 52 percent of sales in Manhattan in the first quarter were below $1 million, compared with 60 percent for the same period a year ago, according to Jonathan Miller, author of Elliman’s report and president of Miller Samuel.

    Comparatively, 71 percent of all Manhattan sales were below $1 million 10 years ago.

  2. grim says:

    Both of these articles are crap, but I’ll post them since I largely expect this to be the NAR talking points over the next 2-3 years … and this ties into #1.

    From LoHud:

    First-time homeowners Heather and Greg Santini

    After a tight squeeze in Brooklyn, the Santinis are loving their new home — and yard — in West Nyack.

    From the Record:

    Desire of a yard brings Hoboken couple to Montvale

    It’s a scene that never would have happened in Hoboken, where the couple lived in a two-bedroom condo for three years, with no yard to speak of.

    And it is exactly what started their home search last August.

    “We felt like we wanted more room, and Marco is a really active kiddo, so it was time,” said Samantha, a licensed clinical social worker who also teaches online for the University of Southern California.

  3. yome says:

    According to Realty Trac it is cheaper to buy a home than to rent in NJ. Every body needs a roof over their head. Even the unemployed.Will you expect prices to come down with unemployment cripping up?
    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/rent-or-buy-this-map-has-the-answer-2014-04-18

  4. grim says:

    From MarketWatch:

    Home sales getting crimped by more than the weather

    Officials will release monthly sales data this week for new and existing homes, and economists polled by MarketWatch expect to hear that both series remained at lackluster rates in March.

    An unusually tough winter hit sales in recent months. But data trends also signal a problem in underlying demand, with total home sales starting to slide over the summer as affordability dropped.

    “I don’t think the slowdown is primarily due to the weather,” said Jed Kolko , chief economist at real estate site Trulia. “Even though mortgage rates are low by historical standards, they are higher than a year ago, and prices are higher than a year ago.”

    A low level of homes available for sale (would-be buyers like the ability to choose from a variety of options) and new mortgage rules for borrowers and lenders are also curbing deals, analysts note.

    On Tuesday, the National Association of Realtors i is scheduled to release its report on sales of existing homes in March, and economists expect the seasonally adjusted annual rate to decline to 4.55 million from 4.6 million in February. If March’s rate does hit 4.55 million, that pace will be down 8% from the year-earlier period, and down 25% from the average monthly pace of more than 6 million over the five years leading up to a 2005 bubble peak.

    Recent sales trends for new homes are doing better, but they still remain at historically low levels, and builders are pessimistic. Economists expect the U.S. Commerce Department to report Wednesday that sales of new single-family homes hit a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 450,000 in March, compared with 440,000 in February . If the March rate rises to 450,000, that would be up 2% from a year earlier, but down 57% from the average monthly pace of almost 1.1 million over the five years leading up to the 2005 bubble peak.

    Although dropping affordability hits all buyers, it’s worth focusing on how it impacts two key chunks of the housing market: institutional investors and first-time home buyers.

    As prices and rates climb, there’s less opportunity for investors to make a real return on property, and so they buy fewer homes , especially as the number of ultra-cheap foreclosures thins out. For example, Blackstone Group’s Invitation Homes unit, which Bloomberg estimates is the country’s largest single-family rental business, has dramatically slowed down the pace of its property purchases since July.

    As Nobel Prize-winning economist and home-price expert Robert Shiller recently pointed out : “It’s not at all clear that momentum is a safe bet anymore.”

    Economists are concerned that prospective first-time buyers , who face high hurdles to obtain a home loan, won’t fill the gap left by investors.

  5. grim says:

    PSA for husbands who might occasionally peruse the Victoria Secret mail catalog. If, by chance, you happen to see a Spanx catalog in the mailbox, do not … under any circumstances … open it. Thank you.

  6. Comrade Nom DePlume says:

    [5] grim

    Hmmm, three possibilities . . .

    1. Wife will freak out if her secret is discovered,

    2. Images within will cause extreme eye and brain pain, or

    3. Grim is the new male model for spanx for men!

  7. 1987 Condo says:

    #6..that is a tough one

  8. JJ says:

    spanx”ing the monkey after you open that catalog.

    Spring Buying Season does not even start till this week. By me we have a lot of snow birds, folks who celebrate Passover and Easter, Families who go away for the Break etc. Plus combined with harsh winter and fact lots of folks near me pulled listings after Sandy inventory has been very low. In the next few weeks tons of listings will hit MLS. Honestly, not everyone goes away and first time home buyers saving up for a house or couples getting married or couples having first kid were looking last few weeks but nothing to look at. Nieghbor who had house all redone after Sandy put house up for sale in March and was in contract to a newlywed couple in a few days at near list. Why not much inventory. Plus it was a perfect starter home. 60×100 three bedrooms two baths, garage, den and small office. And best of all redone after Sandy and couple who owned already planned to move to Florida pre-sandy. So not lived in really, brand new kitchen and brand new bath, floors paint etc. And zone X.

    That couple if they waited till May till put on market that couple would have already bought another house and they would have a lot more inventory.

    Sandy related the only thing they did I heard was they wanted an independent mold test. Stupid test anyhow as couple ripped everything out.

  9. Comrade Nom DePlume says:

    [4] grim,

    This thesis happens to be one I share and I fear we may be in a multi year dead cat bounce for housing. None of the generational macro shifts that are speeding us toward Clot’s abyss seem to be moderating and some, like technological change, are accelerating. Even this administration’s efforts to slow corporate consolidation (and the inevitable job losses it would create) are trivial, and other efforts have the unintended effect of piling coal into the firebox.

    I think the close in suburbs are screwed and the jury is still out on the future of urban living in all but a handful of coastal cities. Not willing to go along with Clot but he’s looking more right than wrong.

  10. Fast Eddie says:

    The house had been on the market only a few days when they went to see it. They offered $685,000, just under the $699,000 asking price, and surprise, there was no bidding war. Although there was a similar offer on the table, the owner went with the D’Aurias, with whom she could identify, having raised her family there.

    Surprise, there was no bidding war because you over-paid for the house. The other “similar” offer was a bid at 20% of the asking price or no other bid at all. Remember, there’s always “a lot of interest” in the house and “it will go fast” if you don’t act quickly. The buyers got hooked because they were already sold on moving. All that’s needed is a nudge and the “deal” is done.

  11. grim says:

    E – My neighbor is selling, beautiful 4br CHC. Needs the usual updates on the interior (they are older) – but the exterior is done. You interested? They would do private party. All the old folks are moving out, all the young families moving in. Most every house in the neighborhood that sold in the last 6-8 months went to a family with kids in grammar school or younger. Two years ago we were the youngest family in the neighborhood, no longer. All the neighbors are great, especially the ones at casa grim. Google street map my house, face my garage, and turn 180.

  12. Bystander says:

    Grim,

    On this blog, the advice is to list by January to hit spring market. Realtors told me last year that the seller missed the spring market because he listed in April. In Sept, I was told that this is busiest time bc everyone goes away in summer and peole buy before holidays. This is all horsesh*t. Price it right. Right now, there is a bubble about the be popped. Spring is DOA here.

  13. grim says:

    Y’all called me an idiot for saying the rest of the country was going to hop on the property tax bandwagon, and right fast too.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-21/property-tax-collections-rising-at-fastest-pace-since-u-s-crash.html

    Property-tax collections are rising at the fastest pace since the U.S. housing market crash sent government revenue plunging, helping end an era of local budget cuts.

    In cities including San Jose, California, Nashville, Tennessee, Houston and Washington, revenue from real-estate levies has set records, or is poised to.

    Local governments are using the money to hire police, increase salaries and pave roads after the decline in property values and 18-month recession that ended in 2009 forced them to eliminate about 600,000 workers and pushed Detroit, Central Falls, Rhode Island, and three California cities into bankruptcy.

    “‘The money is flowing back, but it’s not like an open spigot,” said Rob Hernandez, deputy administrator of Broward County, Florida, where property-tax revenue is set to rise 7 percent this fiscal year, though it remains below earlier peaks. “It’s trickling in.”

  14. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Grim are you trying to hold E’s feet to the fire.

    I would not open a spanx catalog if you begged me to. I prefer my catalog women airbrushed and unrealistic

  15. grim says:

    It is not uncommon for the North Jersey market to see a double peak. One corresponding to the Spring market, the second is a rush to close before school starts in September.

    This is an older graph, but it shows the trend pretty well:

    http://njrereport.com/images/may09_yoy.gif

    Missing the market really only applies to September listings, especially for properties that would be suited for larger families (with kids in school). After school starts, it’s no mans land for big houses. Other than that, I’d still say jumping the gun is likely the best strategy.

  16. Fast Eddie says:

    grim,

    It’s the location that’s inconvenient right now for the current “school” status. Text or email me the address and let me talk to the spouse.

  17. grim says:

    Grim are you trying to hold E’s feet to the fire.

    It’s really just more of an inside joke at this point.

  18. yome says:

    What happened to the people betting for housing to come down lower when housing hit bottom 2 years ago. The reason then was investors will not last. Today when market is up more than 20% they are still betting for housing to come down. How much will it come down? Lower than the bottom 2 years ago?

  19. Ragnar says:

    Bags of cottage cheese wrapped with rubber bands?

  20. grim says:

    I do have a spanx tee shirt – it appears to be made of stainless steel webbing and bungee cords.

    It came with an instruction manual, to clearly describe the installation of said device. It is about the size of a toddler t-shirt, and getting this thing on is hilarious. Do not try to do it standing up, you will fall over and hurt yourself. I nearly threw my back out just trying to get it on. Do not attempt to put it on in front of a female, she will lose all respect for you. Unlike Houdini or Copperfield, who both looked very cool trying to escape from a chained straight jacket, you will not.

    I will say, it is amazing how it will take my 30lb overweight beer belly and craft it into a chiseled 6 pack and a set of pecs that would make Ahnold cower like a sissy man.

    Just like the female versions, nothing more than false advertising. When you take the shirt off (if you can, most times I just give up and fall asleep in it), it’s not unlike shaking a jello mold out of a bundt pan.

  21. Ragnar says:

    “The 1%” is a faulty concept, because it isn’t a static population. My tip: try to make sure your peak earning years don’t come when politicians are going after “the rich”. I failed on that front.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/20/opinion/sunday/from-rags-to-riches-to-rags.html?smid=pl-share&_r=0

    It turns out that 12 percent of the population will find themselves in the top 1 percent of the income distribution for at least one year. What’s more, 39 percent of Americans will spend a year in the top 5 percent of the income distribution, 56 percent will find themselves in the top 10 percent, and a whopping 73 percent will spend a year in the top 20 percent of the income distribution.

    Yet while many Americans will experience some level of affluence during their lives, a much smaller percentage of them will do so for an extended period of time. Although 12 percent of the population will experience a year in which they find themselves in the top 1 percent of the income distribution, a mere 0.6 percent will do so in 10 consecutive years.

    It is clear that the image of a static 1 and 99 percent is largely incorrect. The majority of Americans will experience at least one year of affluence at some point during their working careers. (This is just as true at the bottom of the income distribution scale, where 54 percent of Americans will experience poverty or near poverty at least once between the ages of 25 and 60).

  22. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [16];

    For timing purposes, a reported sale is a closed sale, right?

  23. anon (the good one) says:

    that’s right. just think of yourself as a fact cat, that’s all you need. 20% or so of the ppl already think themselves 1%
    delusional is not a crime

    Ragnar says:
    April 21, 2014 at 9:50 am
    “The 1%” is a faulty concept, because it isn’t a static population.

  24. Ragnar says:

    Anon,
    I’ve heard that the ability to write coherently is correlated to income.
    Are you living proof?

  25. Libturd in the City says:

    Was in DC for the weekend. Wow! The lobbyist model is really fukced things up down there. You can’t possibly pull the plug on it without completely wrecking the city. Spent most of my time in Foggy Bottom and Georgetown as well as had breakfast in the Adams Morgan section. There were empty bike racks everywhere. And more upscale restaurants and hotels than in NYC. Pull the plug on campaign finances and paying for favor and the whole capital will become the worlds largest homeless shelter. We checked out the zoo this trip and what a complete tourist sh1thole. Would rather the Smithsonian charge admission to reduce the number of animals on our side of the cages.

  26. Libturd in the City says:

    Anon need not know language arts to master Ctrl-C.

  27. grim says:

    22 – Since this is a real estate blog, I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out the major impact that a real estate sale would have on a single year of income, especially in situations where the basis is very low and the property is owned outright.

    I know plenty of retirees who would very easily fall into the one percenter camp if they chose to liquidate their investment properties, and in this area, heck, even just 1 property.

  28. Comrade Nom DePlume says:

    [28] grim

    This is where those kids who still live with mom and dad come in handy. Another 250k exclusion for each one who meets the requirements under Sec. 121. Of course, careful planning is essential. Otherwise you’ve simply handed your layabout son or drug addled daughter 250k.

  29. Comrade Nom DePlume says:

    [26] lib
    so, you’re telling me nothing’s changed?

  30. Libturd in the City says:

    Pretty much Nom.

  31. JJ says:

    16.grim says:
    April 21, 2014 at 9:28 am
    It is not uncommon for the North Jersey market to see a double peak.

    I watched the Real Housewifes of New Jersey and there are plenty “double-peaks” in New Jersey

  32. JJ says:

    Sounds Horrible. I barely tolerate the screaming and running around of my own kids. Why would I want to live in a neighbor hood where kids are on left and right of me and behind me. Honestly, the worst is to have neighbors with kids your own age, you know it is not ending well and then every play date, birthday party you have the snoopy neighbors right at the fence. I had these neighbor with triplet kids when I moved in. Two boys and a girl. At first they were indoors all the time as they were three year old when I bought house. A few years later I could not even sit outside The screaming and yelling and Dad and wife yelling, at them in the pool, basketball court etc. Thank god they moved and now we have no kids next door. Couple are complete idiots but they both work full time.

    I have no tolerance for other peoples kids and dogs and cats. Give me some nice old people. Plus kids are a burden on my school taxes.

    BTW why I am ranting. Why does NJ High School have no version of a New York State Regents? How exactly do you tell one school is better than another?

    12.grim says:
    April 21, 2014 at 9:21 am
    E – My neighbor is selling, beautiful 4br CHC. Needs the usual updates on the interior (they are older) – but the exterior is done. You interested? They would do private party. All the old folks are moving out, all the young families moving in. Most every house in the neighborhood that sold in the last 6-8 months went to a family with kids in grammar school or younger. Two years ago we were the youngest family in the neighborhood, no longer. All the neighbors are great, especially the ones at casa grim. Google street map my house, face my garage, and turn 180.

  33. Ragnar says:

    Libtard,
    Rather than outlawing lobbying, I’d suggest moving to a more limited government that would then have less power to bestow favors and money. Taking away government’s power to redistribute (to the poor, rich, weak, powerful) from the individual would massively disable the root cause of the corruption. Rather than fencing in the weeds of DC, I suggest pulling them out by their roots.

  34. Fast Eddie says:

    BTW why I am ranting. Why does NJ High School have no version of a New York State Regents? How exactly do you tell one school is better than another?

    Just talk to most realtors here in North Jersey and they’ll give you their version of the g0spel. The price and taxes is “warranted” because the schools are lined with gold and the kids in town A are somehow smarter than the kids in town B. Or, it’s a “Blue Ribbon” status because we say so. Or, just count the number of German cars in the school parking lot.

  35. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Mortgage Lenders Ease Rules for Home Buyers in Hunt for Business

    The credit freeze is starting to thaw.

    Mortgage lenders are beginning to ease the restrictive lending standards enacted after the housing boom turned to bust, a sign of their rising confidence in the housing market.

    While standards remain tight by historical measures, lenders have started to accept lower credit scores and to reduce down-payment requirements.

    One such lender is TD Bank, Toronto-Dominion Bank’s U.S. unit, which on Friday began accepting down payments as low as 3% through an initiative called “Right Step,” geared toward first-time buyers and low- and moderate-income buyers. TD initially launched the program last year with a 5% down payment. It keeps the product on its books and doesn’t charge for insurance. Borrowers also don’t need to put down any of their own cash if a family, state or nonprofit group provides a down-payment gift.

    The changes also are a recognition by lenders that the business of refinancing old mortgages, which had been a huge profit center for banks, is nearly tapped out. To generate future profits, banks will have to compete for borrowers who may not have perfect credit or large down payments.

    With refinances down sharply, “everybody is fighting for a smaller portion of the originations pie,” said Mike Copley, executive vice president of lending at TD Bank. He said the bank believes the loans will perform well.

    Valley National Bank, a community bank based in Wayne, N.J., lowered down-payment requirements to 5% from 25% this month on mortgages for certain buyers in New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Next month, Arlington Community Federal Credit Union, based in Arlington, Va., will begin accepting 3% down payments on mortgages up to $417,000, down from 5%.

  36. Michael says:

    Nice call Grim!!! I wonder if this will have a positive effect on nj down the line.

    grim says:
    April 21, 2014 at 9:25 am
    Y’all called me an idiot for saying the rest of the country was going to hop on the property tax bandwagon, and right fast too.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-21/property-tax-collections-rising-at-fastest-pace-since-u-s-crash.html

  37. Michael says:

    I don’t know what to take of this. If they are trying to make the point that nobody really stays in the 1%, I would have major trouble believing it. I don’t know too many billionaires that have moved down to the middle class or poor class. I honestly don’t know of one billionaire that this has happened to. It’s almost the same names on the forbes 400 billionaire list. So it’s kind of hard to believe that 20% of the population falls under the 1% at one point in their life. That is not believable at all. I don’t know, and have not ever known, a billionaire on a personal level. If 20% of the population falls under the 1% at one time, shouldn’t I have met a billionaire by now? I have been alive for 33 years.

    Last but not least, is the author tying to make a point that we advocate for taxing the 1% more, since it’s not a set class, and it’s always changing. Based on his thinking, nobody stays in the 1%, so why not tax them more. You are not targeting a certain group, since that group can be anyone inside 20% of the population. Obviously, I’m being sarcastic. This all sounds fishy to me.

    Ragnar says:
    April 21, 2014 at 9:50 am
    “The 1%” is a faulty concept, because it isn’t a static population. My tip: try to make sure your peak earning years don’t come when politicians are going after “the rich”. I failed on that front.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/20/opinion/sunday/from-rags-to-riches-to-rags.html?smid=pl-share&_r=0

  38. Comrade Nom DePlume says:

    [38] Michael

    Case in point. In 2012, we weren’t in the 1%. In 2013, we were. In 2014, likely not.

    Any questions?

  39. Ottoman says:

    “I don’t know what to take of this. If they are trying to make the point that nobody really stays in the 1%, I would have major trouble believing it. I don’t know too many billionaires that have moved down to the middle class or poor class. I honestly don’t know of one billionaire that this has happened to. It’s almost the same names on the forbes 400 billionaire list. So it’s kind of hard to believe that 20% of the population falls under the 1% at one point in their life. That is not believable at all. I don’t know, and have not ever known, a billionaire on a personal level. If 20% of the population falls under the 1% at one time, shouldn’t I have met a billionaire by now? I have been alive for 33 years.”

    1% would consist of about 3 million people, not 400. The 400 would be the 1% of the 1% –they are actually insulated against pretty much everything. I have seen this before, where even people in the 1% are not secure in their futures as long as income inequality continues to grow. Many of them rely on middle class and poorer people buying things to keep them wealthy.

  40. JJ says:

    So it is imaginary NJ Schools are good. They have no way to prove it. The SATs you can cram for and take classes and hire tutors and have years to prepare. Most rich kids did pretty good.

    The NYS Regents in Chemistry, Physics, Algerbra, Calculus, Spanish, English you name it was a bear. Since they all pile up in 9 to 11 the grade there is no way to cram for it. You had to have a good teacher, do all the homework, attend all the classes and study all year.

    Why doesnt NJ have these tests? I mean couldnt you just get lucky and have an easy Chemistry teacher for instance and without a Regents I would have no idea you really dont know Chemistry?

    35.Fast Eddie says:
    April 21, 2014 at 11:45 am
    BTW why I am ranting. Why does NJ High School have no version of a New York State Regents? How exactly do you tell one school is better than another?

    Just talk to most realtors here in North Jersey and they’ll give you their version of the g0spel. The price and taxes is “warranted” because the schools are lined with gold and the kids in town A are somehow smarter than the kids in town B. Or, it’s a “Blue Ribbon” status because we say so. Or, just count the number of German cars in the school parking lot.

  41. JJ says:

    In regards to folks coming in and out of the 1%, consistant earning are much more important to long term wealth than any other factors. If you earn lets say a modest 350K year in and year out. You can afford to max out the 401K and 529 plan every single year and afford to save in your brokerage account every single year.

    Folks who average 350K a year over time but have wild swings from 0 to one million mostly likely cant max out everything every year and in the big swing for fences years more likely to blow the money.

  42. grim says:

    How many one year one percenters are lotto winners?

  43. Ottoman says:

    “Rather than outlawing lobbying, I’d suggest moving to a more limited government that would then have less power to bestow favors and money. Taking away government’s power to redistribute (to the poor, rich, weak, powerful) from the individual would massively disable the root cause of the corruption. Rather than fencing in the weeds of DC, I suggest pulling them out by their roots.”

    Somalia has limited government. Of course when people talk about the evils of redistribution they never acknowledge the government programs such as schools, military, police, food and drug regulations, safety regulations, environmental protections, transportation, health policies, welfare programs etc. etc. that enable people to buy whatever sh!t they’re selling.

  44. Michael says:

    Those 400 are who I have a problem with. Who died and made them kings? They are like aristocrats of the 21st century. Collecting endless amounts of money on a market they rigged for themselves. Would love to compete with walmart, just explain to me how I am supposed to compete?

    Ottoman says:
    April 21, 2014 at 12:31 pm
    “I don’t know what to take of this. If they are trying to make the point that nobody really stays in the 1%, I would have major trouble believing it. I don’t know too many billionaires that have moved down to the middle class or poor class. I honestly don’t know of one billionaire that this has happened to. It’s almost the same names on the forbes 400 billionaire list. So it’s kind of hard to believe that 20% of the population falls under the 1% at one point in their life. That is not believable at all. I don’t know, and have not ever known, a billionaire on a personal level. If 20% of the population falls under the 1% at one time, shouldn’t I have met a billionaire by now? I have been alive for 33 years.”

    1% would consist of about 3 million people, not 400. The 400 would be the 1% of the 1% –they are actually insulated against pretty much everything. I have seen this before, where even people in the 1% are not secure in their futures as long as income inequality continues to grow. Many of them rely on middle class and poorer people buying things to keep them wealthy.

  45. Libturd in the City says:

    I would simply like to see a government that made decisions that most benefited the people. We had this conversation with Gator Jr., during the car ride home from DC. Gator used tobacco as an example of what is wrong with our government. The example worked very well to help little Gator understand. This is in complete contrast to the Holocaust explanation I was forced to give on the drive down on Friday which stemmed from a discussion on how Haagen Dazs got its name. Keep in mind, we are skipping Hebrew School for our kids and are giving our kids the freedom to believe in whatever faith they choose. Currently, my son believes that religion is responsible for wars, terrorism, etc. I’m pretty sure he’ll end up agnostic or atheist with a Jewish identity, which works perfectly for me. Other funny conversation that came up this weekend occurred as we walked past Watergate. He acknowledged all of the homeless in our capitol too. This turned out to be some educational trip. I’m super glad he is growing up with the ability to think for himself. It’s a shame that so few do.

  46. Libturd in the City says:

    “Would love to compete with walmart, just explain to me how I am supposed to compete?”

    I am not feeding this troll.

  47. Michael says:

    You answered your own question. Nj is always in the top 3 for richest states. This is why it’s a leader in education. Same thing goes for conn and maryland. That’s why I get sick of hearing people bash inner city schools. It’s obvious there is a correlation between wealth and success in education. Look at clifton for example, take a look at the elementary school scores. The montclair hights section elementary school scores 9 out of 10. The rest of the schools score 3 or lower. Is this school doing something different than the rest of clifton? OH YEA, THAT’S THE PART OF CLIFTON WITH SOME MONEY. That helps explain the difference in scores. Education can’t solve poverty. I hate when I hear people claiming education can rid poverty. The only thing you get when everyone is successful in education, is a class of poor people who are educated and realize how they are getting taken advantage of by their rich master.

    JJ says:
    April 21, 2014 at 12:31 pm
    So it is imaginary NJ Schools are good. They have no way to prove it. The SATs you can cram for and take classes and hire tutors and have years to prepare. Most rich kids did pretty good.

  48. joyce says:

    So I take from your comment that you favor ending these programs that exist to provide income to corporations?

    Ottoman says:
    April 21, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    etc. that enable people to buy whatever sh!t they’re selling.

  49. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    47 Well amazon is starting to do a pretty good job of it but that would be lost on the troll

  50. Fast Eddie says:

    Many of them rely on middle class and poorer people buying things to keep them wealthy.

    There you have it folks! The thinking of a liberal.

  51. grim says:

    I’d make a great Somali pirate. Yarr!

  52. grim says:

    I hear Montclair banned gas-powered leaf blowers in the name of public safety.

  53. Fast Eddie says:

    The only thing you get when everyone is successful in education, is a class of poor people who are educated and realize how they are getting taken advantage of by their rich master.

    Oh, satire; I get it.

  54. anon (the good one) says:

    protest? we all are the 1%!
    what’s there to protest?

    @BillMoyersHQ: Where are the voices protesting against vast #inequality in US? asks @profwolff http://t.co/pAhdMLOnmS

  55. grim says:

    What about protesting the millions of American kids that squander opportunities that other kids would die for by dropping out of school every year?

    Drop out in America and you are worthless to society, completely unemployable. 3 million who will amount to nothing in life but consuming public benefits and sucking the entitlement teat.

    Why no outrage? Blame it on the man I guess.

  56. anon (the good one) says:

    The top 10 hedge fund managers earned as much in one year as 334,902 elementary school teachers or 271,575 registered nurses.

    @BillMoyersHQ: Think CEO pay is out of control? Top hedge fund managers make 59 TIMES as much as they do. http://t.co/mZNSOX1FpF

  57. joyce says:

    An elderly Missouri man dialed 911 and asked for an ambulance to come and help his ailing wife. Instead, the police showed up, threw him to the ground, sat on his head and handcuffed him…. and charged him with resistence arrest and battery on a pig.

    http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/21/elderly-man-calls-for-ambulance-violent-cops-beat-him-instead/#2

  58. Libturd in the City says:

    “I hear Montclair banned gas-powered leaf blowers in the name of public safety.”

    Only for the residents and their contracted landscapers and only during certain months of the year. Though the Community Services employees (Public Works & Parks), are not subject to the ban. Hey, that’s what happens when ultaliberals run the roost.

    The council (with the help of NJs only environmental coordinator I think) is also working extremely hard to find an energy supplier to the town that produces electricity cleanly that residents would have to ‘opt out’ of if they didn’t want to participate.

    I got a multi that will probably have a rare vacancy in the next six months if anyone is interested in living in a town where the government legislates your every move.

  59. joyce says:

    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/25270990/mich-judge-to-killer-i-hope-you-die-in-prison

    I have no sympathy for this killer… tried & convicted of murder. Life in prison (not a death penalty state). But do we really want some person who’s emotional and unable to control his temper for a judge? I know the retort is “he’s human”. Yes of course, but how can we pretend with a straight-face that the arbiter of the law and facts is impartial?

    I know some on this board would rip the defendant for doing the slighting thing that’s ‘disrepectful to courtroom decorum’ (sometimes, rightfully so) … however, as we all know, the rules don’t apply to the judge.

  60. anon (the good one) says:

    ppl like Libturd and Ragnar could train HS dropouts to speculate in Wall St and in no time make them rich. society needs more hedge fund managers anyway

    grim says:
    April 21, 2014 at 1:18 pm
    What about protesting the millions of American kids that squander opportunities that other kids would die for by dropping out of school every year?

    Drop out in America and you are worthless to society, completely unemployable. 3 million, every year, who will amount to nothing in life but consuming public benefits and sucking the entitlement teat.

    Why no outrage? Blame it on the man I guess.

  61. Michael says:

    Thought this comment on that article makes some good points, esp the hippie part.

    AnnaFrieda
    Yes, my heart sank when I saw the drums and dreadlocks appear at Occupy Wall Street, seemingly playing right into the hand of the one percenters (see those hippies? of course they don’t have jobs, but how is this our fault?) But I think a bigger reason we are not out there screaming is that too many of us are still hanging on, if just barely, and we are not yet willing to risk that little bit we still have left. If will take a charismatic and strong leader to convince us that the risk is well worth taking to secure a better future. Or it will take a tipping point where the homeless and downtrodden become too numerous and they have no other option left but to protest.

    anon (the good one) says:
    April 21, 2014 at 1:14 pm
    protest? we all are the 1%!
    what’s there to protest?

    @BillMoyersHQ: Where are the voices protesting against vast #inequality in US? asks @profwolff http://t.co/pAhdMLOnmS

  62. Libturd in the City says:

    The funny thing about the hedge fund managers is that for the most part they play a con game. Only, the people they con their money out of are the ultra wealthy. Many of these funds are run by former athletes, celebrities, or really anyone who makes dumb rich guys feel good about playing golf with or having at their kids bar mitzvahs and debutante balls. The saddest part of the whole thing is that most hedge fund managers suck and can’t even match the performance of the overall market or particular indexes. Noone ever said the 1% are smart.

  63. Michael says:

    Exactly, if you work hard and are smart, the world is yours (says the boss who is trying to con you into working harder for him so that he can make lots of money). You guys always miss this point, if everyone works hard and is studious, we will rid the country of poverty? It’s freaking impossible in a capitalist system. No matter how hard everyone works, someone has to be poor. Now you know why there is a class of people in our country who have given up and accepted their fate. Someone has to be poor and these people have accepted their fate. Having a 100% graduation rate from college and hs will not solve the unemployment problem. There will still be a unemployment rate because there is not enough jobs for everyone, period! There are not enough customers to go around for every business to have insane profit margins. Therefore stop throwing out the myth that if these hs dropouts had not dropped out, that they would not be in the same damn crappy situation…….because they will be whether or not they get educated. They are poor, not because of lack of education, but because of a lack of opportunites at making good money. There are only so many good money generating opportunities out there. Too bad they are all taken. It’ s a lottery to win these good opportunities.

    anon (the good one) says:
    April 21, 2014 at 1:36 pm
    ppl like Libturd and Ragnar could train HS dropouts to speculate in Wall St and in no time make them rich. society needs more hedge fund managers anyway

  64. grim says:

    Do you still need to be an “accredited investor” to invest in the pure play hedge funds? I thought this was the case, but I know there are a number of long/short funds available to the public that leverage similar strategies.

    You needed a net worth of $1m, $200k in income, and a reasonable expectation that the income level will continue.

    Yet these guys are scamming the 98%? Doesn’t look like it to me. More like the 1% scamming the 2%.

  65. Libturd in the City says:

    The occupy movement was retarded. The so-called protesters had no unified message and it was hard to take people with iPhones and Powerbooks seriously as they complained about not getting their fair share of the spoils of society. The only thing worse than the spoiled protesters were the lines of Subaru Outbacks driving meals in from the suburbs who were allaying their guilty consciouses by pretending to do their part. There was literally a convoy stretching from Montclair to the Lincoln Tunnel.

  66. Street Justice says:

    You need to protest while brandishing firearms in order to be effective in America.

  67. grim says:

    67 – How many NYU students were in the crowds in NYC … what was the 2012/3 estimated tuition and housing? $75,000?

  68. Libturd in the City says:

    Sadly, I agree that the fat cats should play more equitably. But I don’t blame them for their greed. It’s only human to want what others don’t have. If buying your representatives works, why the heck wouldn’t you.

  69. JJ says:

    One of my old bosses back in the heady days of 2007 hit the top 400 list. Has a nine figure salary.

    He lived in a 60×100 split and drove a dodge caravan and shops at Kohls and his kids went to public schools and CUNY/SUNY schools

    He gives to charity and does not plan on leaving much money to the kids. Meanwhile some of his staff have planes and mansions and Beach Houses.

    Not all rich people are evil and by the way you cant take it with you. Folks like Oprah have no kids or even husband. The Money she has she is only “renting”

    44.Ottoman says:
    April 21, 2014 at 12:37 pm
    “Rather than outlawing lobbying, I’d suggest moving to a more limited government that would then have less power to bestow favors and money. Taking away government’s power to redistribute (to the poor, rich, weak, powerful) from the individual would massively disable the root cause of the corruption. Rather than fencing in the weeds of DC, I suggest pulling them out by their roots.”

    Somalia has limited government. Of course when people talk about the evils of redistribution they never acknowledge the government programs such as schools, military, police, food and drug regulations, safety regulations, environmental protections, transportation, health policies, welfare programs etc. etc. that enable people to buy whatever sh!t they’re selling.

  70. JJ says:

    The worst back then were the pilots and union working striking back in 2009 outside the Stock Exchange.

    The unions actually hire folks to dress up like Pilots while the actually pilots took the day off. Same for the union folk. My favorite I saw a few folks in suits marching and over heard one guy said he came in for an interview and saw an Ad for $100 bucks for day to march around. He was a laid off Wall Street worker being paid to protest wall street.

    69.grim says:
    April 21, 2014 at 1:56 pm
    67 – How many NYU students were in the crowds in NYC … what was the 2012/3 estimated tuition and housing? $75,000?

  71. grim says:

    The council (with the help of NJs only environmental coordinator I think) is also working extremely hard to find an energy supplier to the town that produces electricity cleanly that residents would have to ‘opt out’ of if they didn’t want to participate.

    Sure as hell won’t be wind power – you see that article about dead birds? They should raise everyone’s taxes and dedicate 1/4th of the town budget to purchasing carbon credits.

  72. grim says:

    What, you think the 99% isn’t capable of greed? Disgusting.

    Port Authority hires retired ‘double-dipping’ N.J. police officers, report says

    The Port Authority has hired almost a dozen retired officers from New York and New Jersey who now earn a $150,000 salary while collecting a pension, according to a report from the New York Post.

    Nine of the new hires are officers from the NYPD and New Jersey State Police, the report said. A Newark police captain and a police commissioner from Mount Vernon are also among the retired officers joining the Port Authority, according to The Post.

    On top of their pensions, the officers earn a salary of at least $150,000, the report said. The officers also earn an annual $12,000 bonus and perks including a “take-home” car and a free E-ZPass, according to the report.

  73. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [66];

    More like the 1% scamming the 2%.

    At the time the NYP ran backgrounders on the arrestees from Zucotti Park; hard-core trust-afarians.

  74. Libturd in the City says:

    Grim…I can’t get a post through. If you find the time…to listen to me whine….please unmod.

  75. grim says:

    You are going into the shredder, not even moderation – what are you trying to post about?

  76. Libturd in the City says:

    Summer camp.

  77. anon (the good one) says:

    the 99% do not set tax, economic policies.
    neither they decide other tremendously profound societal events. when to go to war, for example

    grim says:
    April 21, 2014 at 2:29 pm
    What, you think the 99% isn’t capable of greed? Disgusting.

  78. Xolepa says:

    (36) Grim. If they open it up for multis, I may go back in.

  79. 1987 Condo says:

    I can’t take the Port Authority, as a kid in the 1970’s I read in the NYDN all those stories of double dipping, OT at end of career, etc…and literally 40 years later nothing has been done to correct it…ugh!

  80. Libturd in the City says:

    During college summers, I used to be a camp counselor as I needed a place to live and it was good times. I started working at the summer camp I attended as a kid which to this day, may be the cheapest sleepaway camp in the region. We got a lot of fresh air fund kids and man did everyone appreciate being away from home (and their parents). I absolutely loved the camp as the kids were ‘real’. Then one Summer, my spoiled rotten best friend from childhood invited me to be a counselor at his rich b1tch camp. I never saw amenitees like these. This camp even had waiters in the dining hall and some cabins had AC. I got paid more in one week in tips in this camp than I made working nine weeks at mine. But it really wasn’t worth it. All these spoiled brats did was try to one-up each other. It was the most annoying summer ever. And they were dumb as heck when it came to common sense. One kid wrapped the rope from the water skiing boat around his wrist and got his hand ripped off. I swear these kids never did a single things for themselves. Few of them even knew how to make their own beds. I ended up getting the counselor of the year award, which didn’t really involve much on my part. All I did was discipline the sh1t out of my bunkmates and they ate it up like a bunch of puppies. They had never been forced to run naked around the flagpole and back for not following the rules. This was a daily evening ritual in the camp I grew up at. This discipline worked wonders when it came to cabin competitions.

    Well I’m not sure where I am going with all of this, except to say that rich people really aren’t all that bad. I just wouldn’t want to bunk with them cause they’re such idiots.

  81. Libturd in the City says:

    Well I know the problem is in the first half now.

  82. Libturd in the City says:

    Screw it.

  83. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Lib no one wants to know what you did at Moses camp anyway : )

  84. Libturd in the City says:

    Moses Camp? I went to YMCA Camp Mason! Best part was for Friday night services, they hung the Israeli flag on the cross and that made the chapel a temple. Oy vey!

  85. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    sure, then you kids made a golem and went hunting for christian children.

    I think my twin nephews work at camp mason every summer. though I never bothered to ask them which camp it was?

  86. Libturd in the City says:

    As far as I know…there’s only one camp Mason. Just checked rates and it’s $800 a week unsubsidized. The rich bitch camp moved, but now costs 3 times that!

  87. Juice Box says:

    Tard – not a new story, but rich kid camp now requires a private jet to get there.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/25/nyregion/to-reach-simple-life-at-camp-lining-up-for-private-jets.html?_r=0

  88. The Original NJ ExPat, cusp of doom says:

    Every cop in Boston must be working today. There have been 14 cops just in front of our building ALL day, and we’re 4 miles from the finish line. Average year it is usually about 2-3 cops out front. Also hard barriers, we usually just have a rope running pole to pole along the sidewalk.

  89. JJ says:

    http://www.floodtools.com/Map.aspx

    Really cool tool just released that maps flood risk by your home address.

  90. Michael says:

    Ok, I’m finally done puking. This is worst than the 1%.

    What’s really sad about this is the fact that somebody needs that job. They don’t have a job because greedy bastards like this are double dipping. When someone calls them out on it, they always come with a stupid response like…” Don’t get mad at me, it’s legal”. Spoken like a true dirtbag.

    grim says:
    April 21, 2014 at 2:29 pm
    What, you think the 99% isn’t capable of greed? Disgusting.

    Port Authority hires retired ‘double-dipping’ N.J. police officers, report says

    The Port Authority has hired almost a dozen retired officers from New York and New Jersey who now earn a $150,000 salary while collecting a pension, according to a report from the New York Post.

    Nine of the new hires are officers from the NYPD and New Jersey State Police, the report said. A Newark police captain and a police commissioner from Mount Vernon are also among the retired officers joining the Port Authority, according to The Post.

    On top of their pensions, the officers earn a salary of at least $150,000, the report said. The officers also earn an annual $12,000 bonus and perks including a “take-home” car and a free E-ZPass, according to the report.

  91. Michael says:

    I agree, and like I said previously, most people that know me would consider me as pretty well off. I don’t hate rich people, I am one. My wife and I are 33 and have been generating an income of 200,000 or more since day 1 of our marriage back in 2009. What % does that put us in, maybe top 5% in the income percentile for the nation? So, I’m far from poor and a lot closer to the 1%. Trust me, I don’t hate rich people. I just hate the small % that have gamed our economy and taken over control of govt policy, which basically means taking over the govt.

    “Well I’m not sure where I am going with all of this, except to say that rich people really aren’t all that bad. “

  92. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    [82] libtard,

    “All these spoiled brats did was try to one-up each other. It was the most annoying summer ever. And they were dumb as heck when it came to common sense. One kid wrapped the rope from the water skiing boat around his wrist and got his hand ripped off. I swear these kids never did a single things for themselves. Few of them even knew how to make their own beds. ”

    I was talking to a psychologist today about how executive functions were never taught in schools in the past. She went on to say that today they are taught but taught badly, and not after a certain grade. She theorized that this was why kids don’t do well in college. I agreed and posited that it carried on to later life.

    If my wife had her way, my daughters would be spoiled like rich kids. I am somewhat the opposite, which means that the girls keep running to “the court of appeals” to have my decisions overturned. But I advised the appeals court that if she was going to impose her own judgment, she could handle enforcement and logistics too. That put a crimp in the rate of spoilage.

  93. The Original NJ ExPat, cusp of doom says:

    [57] This is a simple fix. We need a tiered benefit structure in Welfare. Pay the highest benefit to those with a HS degree and no kids.

    What about protesting the millions of American kids that squander opportunities that other kids would die for by dropping out of school every year?

    Drop out in America and you are worthless to society, completely unemployable. 3 million who will amount to nothing in life but consuming public benefits and sucking the entitlement teat.

    Why no outrage? Blame it on the man I guess.

  94. Essex says:

    93. I got news for ya M – $200k in northern NJ is a living wage. If you lived in Iowa you would be considered “well off”. Not a dig. Just the place.

  95. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    No longer will I feel obligated to bring a lot of wine when I dine at my BIL and sister’s house.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-salary-does-a-doctor-make-2014-4

  96. I’m sorry; is this the blog for fans of chicks with blubber butts?

  97. grim (36)-

    A hard rain is gonna fall.

    “Valley National Bank, a community bank based in Wayne, N.J., lowered down-payment requirements to 5% from 25% this month on mortgages for certain buyers in New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Next month, Arlington Community Federal Credit Union, based in Arlington, Va., will begin accepting 3% down payments on mortgages up to $417,000, down from 5%.”

  98. stu (46)-

    Stop there. Your kid is a freaking genius.

    “Currently, my son believes that religion is responsible for wars, terrorism, etc.”

  99. street (68)-

    Brandish money. Firearms are so gauche.

    “You need to protest while brandishing firearms in order to be effective in America.”

  100. Woops. Gotta get back to Idol.

Comments are closed.