Wage Home Price Disconnect?

From HousingWire:

Is wage stagnation keeping homebuyers away?

Perhaps the reason buyers are staying away from the housing market is because they simply can’t afford it.

At least, that’s what one report suggests. In Trulia’s Price Monitor for June, Trulia’s chief economist Jed Kolko compares the rise in asking prices with the rise (or lack thereof) of wages in the 100 largest metro areas.

The results are a bit troubling for those who think they should be earning more money.

According to Trulia’s data, in the ten markets where asking prices have risen the most year-over-year, wages have barely increased. In Riverside-San Bernardino, California, asking prices rose 16.9% from June 2013 to June 2014. Wages in that area only rose by 0.6% from 2012-2013, according to recently released full-year 2013 wage data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ Quarterly Census of Employment and Wages.

In Atlanta, asking prices rose 15.7% while wages only rose 0.8%. In Bakersfield, California, asking prices rose 13.9% while wages actually dropped by 0.3%.

“In fact, average wages per worker rose less than 1% in 2013 in all but one of the 10 metros with the largest price increases,” Kolko said. “Nationally, asking prices (year-over-year in June 2014) rose faster than wages per worker (year-over- year in 2013) in 95 of the 100 largest metros.

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164 Responses to Wage Home Price Disconnect?

  1. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Manhattan Apartment Rents Jump as Vacancies Rate Tumbles

    Manhattan apartment rents jumped last month, extending a surge in costs as availability tightens during the market’s peak season.

    The median monthly rent rose 3.3 percent in June from a year earlier to $3,300, according to a report today by appraiser Miller Samuel Inc. and brokerage Douglas Elliman Real Estate. A separate report by brokerage Citi Habitats showed the average rent reached $3,470, the highest in records dating to 2002.

    Rents are increasing following a lull at the end of 2013 and early this year, when vacancies rose after a jump in home sales. Apartment costs will continue to climb, pushing some people out of Manhattan to other boroughs, until employment improves and mortgage lending returns to historically normal levels, said Jonathan Miller, president of Miller Samuel.

    “The drivers of rising prices aren’t going away any time soon,” Miller, a Bloomberg View contributor, said in a telephone interview. “Prices have been elevated in Manhattan for a number of years. That has been a key driver of the Brooklyn rental market. Now you are seeing people proceed out of Brooklyn and looking at Queens.”

    Miller Samuel and Douglas Elliman’s median Manhattan rent was the highest since a one-month spike to $3,695 in February 2009, when the credit crisis damped demand at the low end of the market.

    The vacancy rate in Manhattan fell to 1.64 percent last month from 1.83 percent a year earlier, the Miller Samuel and Douglas Elliman report showed. It was the lowest for June in five years. Landlords’ use of concessions to fill apartments, such as a free month’s rent, also declined.

  2. Juggalo4eva says:

    Duh. Not to worry, however; we have all kinds of new toxic financing products to help you achieve the Amerikan Dream!

    “Perhaps the reason buyers are staying away from the housing market is because they simply can’t afford it.”

  3. Juggalo4eva says:

    Well they blew up the chicken man in Philly last night,
    Now they blew up his house too.
    Down on the boardwalk they’re gettin’ ready for a fight,
    Gonna see what them racket boys can do.

    Now there’s trouble busin’ in from out of state,
    And the D.A. can’t get no relief.
    Gonna be a rumble out on the promenade,
    And the gamblin’ commissions hangin’ on by the skin of its teeth.

    Everything dies, baby that’s a fact,
    But maybe everything that dies, someday comes back.
    Put your makeup on, fix your hair up pretty,
    And meet me tonight in Atlantic City.

    Well I got a job and tried to put my money away,
    But I got debts that no honest man can pay.
    So I drew what I had from the Central Trust,
    And I bought us two tickets on that Coast City bus.

    Everything dies, baby that’s a fact
    But maybe everything that dies, someday comes back.
    Put your makeup on, fix your hair up pretty,
    And meet me tonight in Atlantic City.

    Now our luck may have died, and our love may be cold,
    But with you forever I’ll stay.
    We’re goin’ out where the sands turnin’ to gold,
    So put on your stockin’s cause the nights gettin’ cold.

    And everything dies, baby that’s a fact,
    But maybe everything that dies, someday comes back.

    Now I been lookin’ for a job. but it’s hard to find,
    Down here it’s just winners and losers, and don’t get caught on the wrong side of that line.
    Well I’m tired of comin’ out on the losin’ end,
    So honey, last night I met this guy, and I’m gonna do a little favor for him.

    Well I guess everything dies, baby that’s a fact
    But maybe everything that dies, someday comes back
    So fix your hair up nice, and fix yourself up pretty,
    And meet me tonight in Atlantic City.

  4. grim says:

    From DS News:

    Foreign Buyers Competing in U.S. Housing Market

    According to a profile of international homebuying activity released by the National Association of Realtors (NAR), total international home sales were estimated at $92.2 billion from April 2013 through March 2013, up from the previous period’s level of $68.2 billion.

    “Foreign buyers are being enticed to U.S. real estate because of what they recognize as attractive prices, economic stability, and an incredible opportunity for investment in their future,” said NAR President Steve Brown.

    Approximately 65 percent of purchases by foreign buyers over the year involved a single-family home, with 42 percent used as a primary residence. Because non-residents are limited to six-month stays in the country, most buyers use their properties for vacation or rental purposes or as an investment, NAR says.

    While interest in U.S. housing spans the globe, NAR reports the greatest amount of activity came from buyers in Canada, China, Mexico, India, and the United Kingdom, which together accounted for nearly 54 percent of all reported international transactions last year. Canada held on to the largest share of purchases at 19 percent, while China took the lead in dollar volume, purchasing an estimated $22 billion.
    Four states—Florida, California, Arizona, and Texas—comprised 55 percent of total reported purchases, with Florida staying on top at 23 percent. California followed at 14 percent, followed by Texas and Arizona at 12 percent and 6 percent, respectively.
    According to the group, among foreign buyers, Europeans last year tended to flock toward the warmer climates of Florida and Arizona, while Asian buyers were drawn to the West Coast. Buyers from all countries showed greater preference toward areas where there were already concentrations of people of their own nationality.

    NAR also found that nearly 60 percent of reported international sales were all-cash, nearly double that of domestic purchases.

  5. 1987 Condo says:

    I’m “stunned” that they figured out that Europe had problems…

  6. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    [4] grim,

    Driving this in part is the fact that the rest of the world largely uses territorial tax systems. And as our tax treaties are designed to ensnare US citizens by insisting on home country taxation, it creates an exploitable gap where “non doms” from some nations can avoid tax on some or most income, sometimes nearly all if they plan their stays properly.

    Best of both worlds: get to live here and have the stability of the US and its laws, it avoid US, and sometimes home country, taxation.

  7. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    [4] grim,

    You can’t open a bank account now without the bank being required to subject you to a little anal probing to satisfy the AML regulations. But aside from the CTR (and AFIDA for ag property) is anyone asking where the cash for foreign buyers comes from? And to my knowledge, if you aren’t on OFAC/FinCEN radar, there’s no reporting to the passport holders government.

  8. nwnj says:

    grim

    Spotted this and thought you might be interested. http://www.post-gazette.com/life/libations/2014/07/10/Virginia-s-Copper-Fox-Distillery-is-connected-to-Pittsburgh/stories/201406160161

    What’s a 5th from one of these small batch places cost anyway?

  9. Essex says:

    Piketty shows that such inequality is driven by two complementary forces. By owning more of everything (capital), rich people have a mechanism for getting ever richer than the rest of us, because the rate of return on investment is higher than the rate of economic growth. In other words, money made from investments grows faster than money made from wages. Piketty claims the wealth of the wealthiest Americans is rising at 6%-7% a year, more than three times as fast as the economy the rest of us live in.
    At the same time, wages for middle and lower income Americans are sinking, driven by factors also largely under the control of the wealthy. These include the application of new technology to eliminate human jobs, the crushing of unions, and a decline in the inflation-adjusted minimum wage that more and more Americans depend on for survival.

  10. anon (the good one) says:

    yes, let’s go back to the middle ages and have your entire family permanently work for slave wages. F that

    Libturd in Union says:
    July 9, 2014 at 1:53 pm

    And let me tell you. My small team in Chennai is much more driven and skilled than my American team. They are all self learners and self motivated. They would bring their families into the office to help out if the situation called for it.

  11. anon (the good one) says:

    @stiglitzian:
    “There is a vicious circle: inequality of outcomes leads to inequality of opportunity which leads to further inequalities of outcome.”

  12. chicagofinance says:

    I like Pine Valley so much more……

    Juggalo4eva says:
    July 10, 2014 at 7:27 am

  13. chicagofinance says:

    For the record, this handle for you really isn’t good……

    chicagofinance says:
    July 10, 2014 at 8:44 am
    I like Pine Valley so much more……

    Juggalo4eva says:
    July 10, 2014 at 7:27 am

  14. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    Hold on to your butts kids. Futures ain’t looking so good . . .

  15. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    [10] Essex,

    We needed Picketty to tell us that?

    I haven’t read his book but I swear there can’t be an original thought in it.

  16. Libturd on NJTransit and it's actually moving. says:

    There goes the neighborhood.

    Hey Anon. You can thank prez cigar in the intern for it. Isn’t he your messiah?

  17. Juggalo4eva says:

    Gotta show solidarity with my ICP peeps, bro.

  18. Ragnar says:

    #2,
    “…they simply can’t afford it.”
    Modern American government believes it is instituted to ensure that “can’t afford it” should never be an argument against purchasing something.

  19. anon (the good one) says:

    @stiglitzian:
    “Widening and deepening inequality is not driven by immutable economic laws, but by laws we have written ourselves.”
    http://t.co/teXh35e7eq

  20. JJ says:

    Thnak god we have some vol today and some reason for VIX to move. Compliancy is a killer. We need some mojo today.

  21. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    If there is anyone left alive who still denies, publicly at least, that Obamacare wasn’t intended in part to help out the base, here’s yet another coincidence to explain. . . .

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101823365

  22. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    [21] anon

    “Widening and deepening inequality is not driven by immutable economic laws, but by laws we have written ourselves.”

    Man, there is all kinds of fun to be had with that statement. Stiglitz clearly wasn’t thinking when he said it, and we all know you weren’t when you tweeted it.

  23. 30 year realtor says:

    Comrade #23 – Wasn’t the point of the legislation to get the uninsured insured? Where did you think the change was going to come from?

    That has to be one of the most ridiculous, pointless comments I have ever seen you make.

  24. Fast Eddie says:

    Perhaps the reason buyers are staying away from the housing market is because they simply can’t afford it.

    Great deduction, Lois Lane.

    “In fact, average wages per worker rose less than 1% in 2013 in all but one of the 10 metros with the largest price increases,” Kolko said. “Nationally, asking prices (year-over-year in June 2014) rose faster than wages per worker (year-over- year in 2013) in 95 of the 100 largest metros.

    Jot down how much money you spend when you leave the house – especially on the weekends. Keep a thorough note of it. How much money are you laying out every month to pay bills? Better yet, what percentage of your income is being invested per month? Lets ask that last question to all the muppets who are currently underwater.

  25. joyce says:

    If there is anyone left alive who still thinks they care about the base…

    Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:
    July 10, 2014 at 9:18 am

  26. joyce says:

    The Environmental Protection Agency has quietly claimed that it has the authority to unilaterally garnish the wages of individuals who have been accused of violating its rules.

    According to The Washington Times, the agency announced the plan to enhance its purview last week in a notice in the Federal Register. The notice claimed that federal law allows the EPA to “garnish non-Federal wages to collect delinquent non-tax debts owed the United States without first obtaining a court order.”

  27. grim says:

    What’s a 5th from one of these small batch places cost anyway?

    Ranges widely, anywhere from $30-75 depending. Most common issue on pricing is that the price is high for the “age”. However, age doesn’t correlate with quality when talking about the craft spirits.

    For example, raw whiskey coming off a still in Scotland is so harsh, you’d wretch. It needs to sit for 15 years to have enough of that edge taken off to be drinkable. It’s not that it was great to begin with, and improved with 15 years in a barrel, it’s that it was horrible, and needed to sit for 15 years before it was drinkable.

    With a good craft spirit, the raw product is very drinkable, so it doesn’t necessarily need 2, 3, 5, 15 years in a barrel to achieve the same profile. Not to say that age isn’t important, it is, but by far the public has been swayed into thinking double digit ages mean a superior product, and that isn’t always the case.

    Reason for this usually boils down to yield, large commercials are focused on yield, yield is inversely correlated with quality. I’ll spare you the details. But yeah, makes for an expensive fifth.

  28. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    [19] juggalo

    “This is not the end. We’ll keep fighting to clear the Juggalo family name” . . . Violent J, said in a statement released by the ACLU.

    Violent J doesn’t want people to think of him as a thug. Hmmm, well let’s start with that name . . .

    “While it is easy to fear what one does not understand, discrimination and bigotry against any group of people is just plain wrong and un-American,” he said.

    Unless its a group you disapprove of. Then you want them banned and/or prosecuted.

  29. joyce says:

    The notice went on to say that the EPA had fast-tracked the new rule, enabling it to take effect September 2 unless the agency receives enough adverse public comments by August 1. The EPA said the rule was not subject to review because it was not a “significant regulatory action.”
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/09/epa-claims-it-has-power-to-garnish-wages-without-court-approval/

  30. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    [25] 30

    “That has to be one of the most ridiculous, pointless comments I have ever seen you make.”

    I could try to explain it to you. But that would be even more pointless than the prior comment.

  31. grim says:

    Jobless claims at a 7 year low this morning.

    Armageddon for sure!

  32. 30 year realtor says:

    Comrade – Legislation intended to get the uninsured to become insured is going to disproportionately impact the young and poor. These are the people that are uninsured. This group is viewed as Obama’s political base. Where did you believe the impact would be?

    Before you insinuate that I am unable to understand your argument, why don’t you make one?

  33. Fast Eddie says:

    30 year realtor,

    Do you have contact info or a link? I have a few questions about the foreclosure process.

  34. 30 year realtor says:

    Gary, Can you get my email address from Grim?

  35. Fast Eddie says:

    30 year,

    I will ask grim. Thank you.

  36. Fast Eddie says:

    If there is anyone left alive who still thinks they care about the base…

    Joyce,

    The meekly informed muppets elected an arr0gant, c0cky, smug, self-centered, ph0ny windbag not once but twice. Does that answer your question?

  37. 1987 Condo says:

    #33..I have “astutely” noticed that people “project” their individual circumstances into their commentary of society and the economy.

  38. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    [34] 30 year

    “Before you insinuate that I am unable to understand your argument, why don’t you make one?”

    First, I need to know if you are really a realtor. That influences how grade appropriate the discourse must be.

    Second, you miss the qualifier “in part”. Yes, O-care was intended to bring in the uninsured. Yes, those uninsured tended to fall into the democratic base. But you treat that fact as immaterial. It isn’t and there is a lot about O-care that supports this, such as the redistributive provisions, and the voter registration piece that HHS was going to implement but backed off for now. I mean, if the law is simply about insuring the uninsured, why these seemingly unrelated provisions that the supporters declare to be necessary to the overall workings of O-care? I take them at their word so if all of O-cares’ provisions are part of a carefully choreographed performance, then why are requirements that serve a primary purpose unrelated to insurance so necessary?

    You seem to endorse the notion that helping out the base was an unintended side effect of O-care. I submit that this side effect, while never a primary design feature, is recognized and that the supporters have sought to use O-care as a vehicle to, as Polemachus would say, reward their friends and punish their enemies.

    And it isn’t the first time that the Obama Administration has proposed facially neutral legislation that would have, or did, convey a disproportionate benefit on its core constituencies. Am I supposed to ignore that simply because the legislation was facially neutral?

  39. Juice Box says:

    re: medical insurance and Politics

    I have an indigent in my family who now claims they are now covered with Medical Insurance. They went through the Obamacare registration recently and now are covered via Medicaid and a PPO. They are now happy as a clam to have Medical Insurance, between that and the Facebook posts over the last few years about OWS, there is no way they are not voting for a Dem. Way too happy to sponge off of family and government now to bother working on a career or work flipping burgers either.

  40. joyce says:

    Gary,
    To which elections of the last 50+ years are you referring?

  41. Ragnar says:

    In general, O feeds his base by making sure most of his policy fits this dictum:
    “To each according to his needs, from each according to his abilities”
    The exception is in monetary/finance policy where the rule is:
    “To each according to his political pull, from each who cares where it comes from”

  42. joyce says:

    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Va-Teen-Could-be-Jailed-for-Sexting-Girlfriend-265770831.html

    I guess the lack of requisite intent is only applicable to government officials.

  43. Juice Box says:

    Joyce they can legally knock boots in Virginia she be 15 and he 17 but they cannot send pics. Which is safer?

  44. 30 year realtor says:

    Comrade – I have been reading this board for years and comment sparingly. Where are you getting off insulting me? Have I ever made enough comments about political issues for you to even have a clue where I stand?

    With regard to your argument, all politicians pander to their base. The article was only pointing out who is becoming insured via Obama Care. You are reading into the article and bringing up all sorts of issues that I have not even ventured to address.

    Having read your voluminous daily posts I have a clear picture of your views and behavior toward others on this board. I could care less about your political views but the way your condescending treatment toward others on this board is unattractive. You are as much of a troll as anyone I have observed in this forum over the years.

  45. joyce says:

    JB,

    We are all criminals, just awaiting our turn.

  46. Boomers need a beating says:

    Hell yeahh!! And what is wrong with that??

    Why do you think everything has to benefit either:

    – Wall Street 0.01% hedge fund fat cats
    – Draft avoiding economic life s*cking whiny white tea party boomers
    – Corporate welfare queens & kings – aka – contractors (military/government, etc)

    Either we are all in this together (like the WW2 generation’s mindset) or if it is the Boomer’s way ( I got mind, f you) – then I’m looking out for myself too. And here is a tip. Destroy Medicare and SS is number on the hit list (die boomers die)- if the Boomer’s way is the chosen way.

    Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:
    July 10, 2014 at 9:18 am

    If there is anyone left alive who still denies, publicly at least, that Obamacare wasn’t intended in part to help out the base, here’s yet another coincidence to explain. . . .

  47. chicagofinance says:

    I always thought your were one of those plantation owner/confederate flag waving types…….and your Hebrew roots were sourced in the Louisiana slave trade……didn’t your pre-oenophile interests begin from your childhood experiences with those pedophile moonshiners?

    Juggalo4eva says:
    July 10, 2014 at 8:53 am
    Gotta show solidarity with my ICP peeps, bro.

  48. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    [47] realtor

    Where are you reading insult? I asked you if you were a realtor. Then I made a reference to grade level but didn’t indicate any metric. You concluded that an insult was intended even though the sentiment you seem to complain of was never expressed. BTW, that omission was intentional and it informs me about your thought processes and biases.

    As for being a troll, I learned long ago that I can’t, and shouldn’t, please everyone. So I don’t. I care not a whit whether you agree with me or what you think. My purpose was to prod, to provoke discussion, and to invite deeper inquiry. On that point I’ve only partially succeeded.

  49. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    [49] beating

    Honest, direct, and proof that Tytler was correct.

  50. yome says:

    Red States have the higher uninsured health care.Seems they benefit more

    http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/red-states-vs-blue-states-who-has-the-highest-level-of-health-care-uninsured/news/2011/09/06/26490

    “Yes, O-care was intended to bring in the uninsured. Yes, those uninsured tended to fall into the democratic base”

  51. Boomers need a beating says:

    So you are putting your faith in Alexander Fraser Tytler, Lord Woodhouselee, n arrogant Scottish royalist famous for his Lectures giving a few decades after we beat the English’s behind. From Wikipedia -) Tytler displayed a cynical view of democracy in general and representative democracies such as republics in particular. He believed that “a pure democracy is a chimera,” and that “All government is essentially of the nature of a monarchy.”

    Wiki has this gem -)

    That said however, Tytler does admit that there are individual exceptions to the rule, and that he is ready to allow “that this form of government is the best adapted to produce, though not the most frequent, yet the most striking, examples of virtue in individuals,” paradoxically because a “democratic government opposes more impediments to disinterested patriotism than any other form. To surmount these, a pitch of virtue is necessary which, in other situations, where the obstacles are less great and numerous, is not called in to exertion. The nature of a republican government gives to every member of the state an equal right to cherish views of ambition, and to aspire to the highest offices of the commonwealth; it gives to every individual of the same title with his fellows to aspire at the government of the whole.

    However like any whiny Tea Party Boomer type, wiki has this better gem -)

    The following quotation has been attributed to Tytler, although it has also been occasionally attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville:[citation needed]

    A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.

    The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.

    This text was popularized as part of a longer piece commenting on the 2000 U.S. presidential election, which began circulating on the Internet during or shortly after the election’s controversial conclusion.[10]

    There is no reliable record of Alexander Tytler’s having written any part of the text.[10] In fact, it actually comprises two parts which didn’t begin to appear together until the 1970s. The first paragraph’s earliest known appearance[11] is in an op-ed piece by Elmer T. Peterson in the December 9, 1951 The Daily Oklahoman, which attributed it to Tytler:

    Two centuries ago, a somewhat obscure Scotsman named Tytler made this profound observation: “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.”[12]

    The list beginning “From bondage to spiritual faith” is commonly known as the “Tytler Cycle” or the “Fatal Sequence”. Its first known appearance is in a 1943 speech “Industrial Management in a Republic”[13] by H. W. Prentis, president of the Armstrong Cork Company and former president of the National Association of Manufacturers, and appears to be original to him. It is also published in the text of an address by Prentis (entitled “The Cult of Competency”) delivered at the February 1943 convocation of the General Alumni Society of the University of Pennsylvania.

    I say, let’s keep what we have, put a check on this whiny draft dodgers Tea Party boomer types, and let the alikes of Comrade have a field day in their living room while they spent their time sniffing their Ayn Rand dirty underwear collection.

    Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:
    July 10, 2014 at 11:37 am

    [49] beating

    Honest, direct, and proof that Tytler was correct.

  52. Boomers need a beating says:

    Grim unmod me

  53. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I just dug out some research I did back in 2011. I have a spreadsheet with Median House Price divided by Median Household income for 105 MSAs for the years 1980 through 2006. When you view 27 years worth of data for 105 different markets certain things just jump right off the page. Here’s a couple:

    1980-2000
    1. National average ranged from 2.9 to 3.1 (times median income) every single year. Never lower, never higher
    2. Except for Honolulu, San Francisco, San Jose, San Diego, and LA a rise above 4.2 was *never* sustainable. NY/NJ/Long Island peaked at 5.0 in 1987 before steadily dropping to 3.7 in 1996.
    3. You could almost never go wrong buying in any market when the number was 2.9 to 3.1.
    4. If a market dropped to 2.8 the MSA was almost always beginning a long, if not never-ending, decline. NY/NJ/Long Island hit 3.0 in 1982 but was always 3.1 or higher in every other year.
    5. Except for Hawaii and those CA MSAs, most bubbles/run-ups started at 3.2 and popped in the 4.5-5.0 range. Bridgeport/Stamford/Norwalk was an aberration hitting 5.6 in 1987. NY/NJ hit 5.0 in 1987. Boston hit 4.5. Interestingly Honolulu and those CA markets were only around 4.0 at this time.

    I’ll post more after lunch.

  54. Michael says:

    lmao….thanks for the laugh!!

    Nom, you will blindly back the republican party and their beliefs till the day you die. Whatever they say, pretty much becomes your talking point. Let go of the left and right bs debate. You are much smarter than that. Political parties are for muppets.

    30 year realtor says:
    July 10, 2014 at 10:57 am
    Comrade – I have been reading this board for years and comment sparingly. Where are you getting off insulting me? Have I ever made enough comments about political issues for you to even have a clue where I stand?

    With regard to your argument, all politicians pander to their base. The article was only pointing out who is becoming insured via Obama Care. You are reading into the article and bringing up all sorts of issues that I have not even ventured to address.

    Having read your voluminous daily posts I have a clear picture of your views and behavior toward others on this board. I could care less about your political views but the way your condescending treatment toward others on this board is unattractive. You are as much of a troll as anyone I have observed in this forum over the years.

  55. Fast Eddie says:

    I like what the Tea Party represents. I think I’m more in line in what “FreedomWorks” or the “Tea Party Patriots” represents. We could only hope. I’m so s1ck of this progressive bullsh1t.

  56. Michael says:

    Thanks for the share. Once again, why is this so hard to understand? Why do people continue to fight the facts. Talk about ignorant pea brains. Sad part is, most people going against this theory think they are so damn smart. Funny, you are so smart and made so much money, yet you can’t understand how this is harming our economy. Thanks for being so smart.

    Essex says:
    July 10, 2014 at 8:25 am
    Piketty shows that such inequality is driven by two complementary forces. By owning more of everything (capital), rich people have a mechanism for getting ever richer than the rest of us, because the rate of return on investment is higher than the rate of economic growth. In other words, money made from investments grows faster than money made from wages. Piketty claims the wealth of the wealthiest Americans is rising at 6%-7% a year, more than three times as fast as the economy the rest of us live in.
    At the same time, wages for middle and lower income Americans are sinking, driven by factors also largely under the control of the wealthy. These include the application of new technology to eliminate human jobs, the crushing of unions, and a decline in the inflation-adjusted minimum wage that more and more Americans depend on for survival.

  57. Michael says:

    Great, since progressives suck, why don’t we just go back to the feudal system or the monopolies of the guilded age. If progressives like teddy roosevelt didn’t step up, you would be owned by names like rockefeller, morgan, or carnegie right now. But keep hating progressives.

    Fast Eddie says:
    July 10, 2014 at 12:31 pm
    I like what the Tea Party represents. I think I’m more in line in what “FreedomWorks” or the “Tea Party Patriots” represents. We could only hope. I’m so s1ck of this progressive bullsh1t.

  58. Michael says:

    Yes, unfortunately we do. People like you fight this tooth and nail. If it’s common sense, why do you fight it so much?

    Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:
    July 10, 2014 at 8:48 am
    [10] Essex,

    We needed Picketty to tell us that?

    I haven’t read his book but I swear there can’t be an original thought in it.

  59. Michael says:

    So you are saying the top capitalists have no say in what the laws are? Give you one example, tax laws. Just read some of the bs tax laws and you will see how laws we have created have led to deepening inequality. If we the people were serious about equality, we would have laws to protect the country against people avoiding taxes in off-shore tax havens. It’s so easy to create that law, but why won’t they make it? Guess who controls the lawmakers? That’s right, corporations.

    Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:
    July 10, 2014 at 9:19 am
    [21] anon

    “Widening and deepening inequality is not driven by immutable economic laws, but by laws we have written ourselves.”

    Man, there is all kinds of fun to be had with that statement. Stiglitz clearly wasn’t thinking when he said it, and we all know you weren’t when you tweeted it.

  60. JJ says:

    Even at personal level, gay men with no kids who live in rent stablized apts in the village and are dual income pay a ton of taxes.

    Meanwhile a married man in surburbs with same income and a stay at home wife and a few kids and a huge mortgage and property taxes and a few 529 plans might be paying a lot less taxes.

    63.Michael says:
    July 10, 2014 at 12:43 pm
    So you are saying the top capitalists have no say in what the laws are? Give you one example, tax laws. Just read some of the bs tax laws and you will see how laws we have created have led to deepening inequality. If we the people were serious about equality, we would have laws to protect the country against people avoiding taxes in off-shore tax havens. It’s so easy to create that law, but why won’t they make it? Guess who controls the lawmakers? That’s right, corporations.

  61. Libturd in the City says:

    ” Guess who controls the lawmakers? That’s right, corporations.”

    Which is why we need to end the corporations.*

    *Subaru, Whole Foods, Lululemon and Costco can remain.

  62. Ragnar says:

    I saw this meme started by Mike Rowe (of “Dirty Jobs” fame), and thought of Libturd:
    I would sign off, though some are harder to live up to than others.

    http://profoundlydisconnected.com/skill-work-ethic-arent-taboo/

    “The S.W.E.A.T. Pledge”

    (Skill & Work Ethic Aren’t Taboo)

    1. I believe that I have won the greatest lottery of all time. I am alive. I walk the Earth. I live in America. Above all things, I am grateful.

    2. I believe that I am entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Nothing more. I also understand that “happiness” and the “pursuit of happiness” are not the same thing.

    3. I believe there is no such thing as a “bad job.” I believe that all jobs are opportunities, and it’s up to me to make the best of them.

    4. I do not “follow my passion.” I bring it with me. I believe that any job can be done with passion and enthusiasm.

    5. I deplore debt, and do all I can to avoid it. I would rather live in a tent and eat beans than borrow money to pay for a lifestyle I can’t afford.

    6. I believe that my safety is my responsibility. I understand that being in “compliance” does not necessarily mean I’m out of danger.

    7. I believe the best way to distinguish myself at work is to show up early, stay late, and cheerfully volunteer for every crappy task there is.

    8. I believe the most annoying sounds in the world are whining and complaining. I will never make them. If I am unhappy in my work, I will either find a new job, or find a way to be happy.

    9. I believe that my education is my responsibility, and absolutely critical to my success. I am resolved to learn as much as I can from whatever source is available to me. I will never stop learning, and understand that library cards are free.

    10. I believe that I am a product of my choices – not my circumstances. I will never blame anyone for my shortcomings or the challenges I face. And I will never accept the credit for something I didn’t do.

    11. I understand the world is not fair, and I’m OK with that. I do not resent the success of others.

    12. I believe that all people are created equal. I also believe that all people make choices. Some choose to be lazy. Some choose to sleep in. I choose to work my butt off.

    On my honor, I hereby affirm the above statements to be an accurate summation of my personal worldview. I promise to live by them.

    Signed_______________________________________ Dated____________________

  63. Libturd in the City says:

    Besides 7, I would sign it.

  64. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I heard Mike Rowe interviewed long form on a podcast not too long ago. He seems like the real deal. He said his Dad wasn’t handy with anything, but his grandfather was and that’s where he got his start learning to work with tools and such. He also had a horse he used to ride to High School and he would get off the horse where the woods bet the playing fields and then send the horse home on it’s own. Oh yeah, he was an opera singer too.

  65. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [67] My attorney says we need to have the words “delegate a” inserted between the words “cheerfully volunteer” in #7.

  66. Theo says:

    I’d sign it if you got rid of 3, 4, 5, 7, 8 and 10.

  67. Boomers need a beating says:

    Here is the one Donald “I scalp Bronx Zoo chipmunks” Trump, and heard also the Koch Brothers and Jamie Dimon, Lloyd Blankfein, and the Fanjul Brothers and friends signs:

    1. I believe that I have won the greatest lottery of all time. I am alive. I walk the Earth. I live in America. I inherited a lot of loot. Above all things, I am grateful that the little people are below me as taught to me by the 3 greatest wise women Leona Hemsley, Ayn Rand and Sara Palin.

    2. I believe that I am entitled to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, drugs, sex, plastic surgery, not to pay taxes, and have more influence on ruling the country, the world, the solar system, the galaxy, the universe than the little people. Nothing more. I also understand that “happiness” and the “pursuit of happiness” are not the same thing, and such it requires a lot of hookers and blow, which by pre-eminence of birth and Wealth Management Account size makes me exempt to all temporal laws.

    3. I believe there is no such thing as a “bad job”, as those jobs are the illegal’s job. I believe that all jobs are opportunities to show my stuff and my superior breeding, and it’s up to my lawyers, bankers, and other little people to make the best of them in making me look good.

    4. I do not “follow my passion.” I bring it with me. I believe that any job can be done with passion and enthusiasm with plenty of hookers and blow, as I can wrtie the big checks to buy off everyone, and I mean everyone.

    5. I deplore debt that my lawyers can not weasel me out of, and do all I can to avoid it. I would rather live in a tent and eat beans than borrow money to pay for a lifestyle I can be legally held liable to. This will never happens as I have the best legal sharks in the ocean.

    6. I believe that my safety is the responsibility of my retired captains ex-cops of my security detail that I pay them $150,000 to make sure that the little people are kept away. I understand that being in “compliance” does not necessarily mean I’m out of danger, which mean my legal team’s senior associate will always be with me to get me out of a jam.

    7. I believe the best way to distinguish myself at work is to have the little people show up early, stay late, and make them look like they cheerfully volunteer for every crappy task there is, or else they get the boot and their kids eat ramen noodle the rest of their life.

    8. I believe the most annoying sounds in the world are whining and complaining little people or any one that want to be “fair”. I will never make them as I know I am above it all just by the size of my Wealth Management Account. If I am unhappy in my work, I will either find call the dealer or get a hooker with warm hands and it always make me happy.

    9. I believe that my education is my responsibility, and absolutely critical to my success. I am resolved to learn as much as I can from my lawyers, accountants, lobbyist and other sycophants that are available to me. I will never stop learning, and understand that I can buy it, if need it, because if I know something is, every human has his price or you can get someone to squeeze that person enough to say yes for the right price.

    10. I believe that I am a product of my choices, based on my special circumstances, which makes special bitches. I will never blame myself for my shortcomings or the challenges I face, as it’s other people’s faults. And I will always accept the credit for something I didn’t do if it makes me look good.

    11. I understand the world is not fair, and I’m OK with that, because I’m the 0.01% top. I do not resent the success of others, as long as they are below me on Forbes ranking.

    12. I believe that all people are not created equal. I also believe that all people make choices. Some choose to be lazy. Some choose to sleep in. I choose to call my hookers and do plenty of blow.

    On what I think is my honor, I hereby affirm the above statements to be an accurate summation of my personal worldview as agreed by my legal team. I promise to live by them, a be alert to the first sign of revolution.

    Signed_______________________________________ Dated____________________

  68. Fast Eddie says:

    G0d bless the rich. Without them, a lot of us would not have the lifestyle we currently enjoy.

  69. painhrtz - whatever says:

    jeez pop by yup populated with you guys arguing with mouth breathers going back to work no energy to respond

  70. joyce says:

    gary,
    You know small businesses are responsible for the most jobs, right?

  71. grim says:

    From the Record:

    North Jersey industrial market posts strong quarter

    North Jersey’s industrial real estate market continued to improve and tighten in the second quarter, with vacancy rates dropping because of strong leasing activity, according to data released Wednesday by Cushman & Wakefield Inc.

    Bergen County’s industrial vacancy rate in the second quarter was 7.5 percent, down from 8.3 percent in the first quarter and 9.5 percent in the second period last year, according to Cushman & Wakefield. Industrial vacancies also fell in Passaic County, tumbling to 6.7 percent in the second quarter from 7 percent in the first quarter and 8.7 percent in the same year-ago period.

    Those vacancy rates were just below that of North Jersey, which Cushman & Wakefield defines as not only Bergen and Passaic but Hudson, Essex and Morris counties. The five-county region had a second-quarter industrial vacancy rate of 7.6 percent, down from 7.9 percent in the first quarter and 9.4 percent in the year-ago period, according to Cushman & Wakefield.

    The area’s industrial sector is being lifted as post-recession, pent-up demand for space is released, said Stan Danzig, an industrial expert and executive director at the commercial real estate firm. In addition, online and brick-and-mortar retailers – competing to offer quick deliveries – want distribution centers near dense population centers, such as North Jersey, Danzig said. Also, rising rents are giving developers the financial justification to build industrial properties on spec, he added.

    Year-to-date, the New Jersey industrial market has seen more than 5.8 million square feet of space absorbed, the highest amount recorded during the first half of a year in recent history, according to Cushman & Wakefield.

  72. grim says:

    I can attest to this fact, if you think commercial lease rates in NJ are low, or are depressed, or that there is some kind of glut of available space, you are completely incorrect.

    If you think NJ houses are expensive, your name probably isn’t anywhere near a commercial lease.

  73. Fast Eddie says:

    joyce,

    Yes, I am aware of it. My family were small business owners for years and employed about two dozen people. However, the perks and benefits I currently enjoy are due to those who took a chance, became wealthy and opened the door to an opportunity.

  74. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Here is the entire series for the New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA MSA:

    1980 3.1
    1981 3.1
    1982 3.0
    1983 3.2
    1984 3.4
    1985 3.7
    1986 4.4
    1987 5.0
    1988 4.9
    1989 4.4
    1990 4.2
    1991 4.0
    1992 4.2
    1993 4.1
    1994 4.0
    1995 3.8
    1996 3.7
    1997 3.7
    1998 3.8
    1999 3.9
    2000 4.2
    2001 4.6
    2002 5.2
    2003 5.6
    2004 6.4
    2005 6.8
    2006 7.1

  75. grim says:

    Paterson
    Median Income: $34,302
    Median Home Price: $318,700
    9.3x

    Newark
    Median Income: $35,696
    Median Home Price: $282,400
    7.9x

  76. grim says:

    Upper Saddle River
    Median Income: $180,429
    Median Home Price: $927,600
    5.1x Price/Income

    Upper Montclair
    Median Income: $158,529
    Median Home Price: $653,400
    4.1x Price/Income

    Short Hills
    Median Income: $229,222
    Median Home Price: $1,000,001
    4.4x Price/Income

    Ridgewood
    Median Income: $154,348
    Median Home Price; $702,900
    4.6x Price/Income

  77. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    And here’s the complete series from the Detroit MSA. Look at how the good old “House-as-ATM-for-SUV-and-other-stuff-buying” days pulled Detroit temporarily out of the crapper and into the “stable” tier :

    1980 2.2
    1981 2.2
    1982 2.0
    1983 1.9
    1984 1.8
    1985 1.7
    1986 1.7
    1987 1.9
    1988 1.9
    1989 1.9
    1990 2.1
    1991 2.1
    1992 2.1
    1993 2.2
    1994 2.1
    1995 2.2
    1996 2.2
    1997 2.4
    1998 2.4
    1999 2.3
    2000 2.5
    2001 2.7
    2002 3.0
    2003 2.9
    2004 3.2
    2005 3.1
    2006 2.9

  78. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [82&83] Exactly.

  79. Essex says:

    59. & 72. Really? You are delusional dude.

  80. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    The smart people who sold their houses during the bubble must have moved to
    GREENSBORO-HIGH POINT NC MSA

    1980 2.9
    1981 3.1
    1982 3.2
    1983 2.8
    1984 2.8
    1985 2.9
    1986 3.1
    1987 3.1
    1988 3.0
    1989 2.9
    1990 2.9
    1991 3.0
    1992 3.0
    1993 2.9
    1994 2.9
    1995 2.8
    1996 2.7
    1997 2.8
    1998 2.9
    1999 2.9
    2000 2.9
    2001 3.1
    2002 3.4
    2003 3.4
    2004 3.2
    2005 3.2
    2006 3.2

  81. Ragnar says:

    I’m happy to have gotten my home price to income ratio under 1.
    Short Hills people must be sweating, considering the “median” home of $1mn probably buys a 3/2 cape, or a 4/3 sitting next to the highway/railroad priced at 4X their annual income.
    Look at this million dollar home for a laugh. I can almost smell the catpiss, and feel the knotty pine paneling through the monitor:
    http://www.trulia.com/property/3151411054-250-Dale-Dr-Short-Hills-NJ-07078

  82. Ragnar says:

    Doing the crappy jobs are a good idea early on within an organization to demonstrate that you’re willing to go the extra mile. Later on it’s more important to focus one’s time on the highest-value added items.
    But the founder of my firm, worth nine figures, still picks up garbage off the floor when he sees it, clears away dishes after meetings, searches to find cheap parking at the airport, cheap flights, etc.
    Losers can say success is mostly luck, but I see a lot of good work and habits among the successful people I’ve encountered..

  83. grim says:

    Don’t neglect the impact of near term income increases on affordability – I’ll repost this one from months back:

    Imagine you purchased in 1980, you’d have purchased at a time when the ratio was 3x:

    NJ Home Price (1980)/Household Income(1979) = $60,200/$19,800 = 3x

    Why this is so incredibly interesting is, in just a few years after purchase, incomes *doubled*, yielding an incredibly beneficial situation for the buyer who purchased in 1980:

    NJ Home Price(1980)/NJ Household Income(1989) = 60,200/40,927 = 1.5x

    However, by this time, NJ home prices were in the $162k range, making the ratio for a new buyer in 1990, 162,300/40,927 = 4x, significantly more painful than 10 years earlier.

  84. grim says:

    In the scenario in 87 – we’d be complaining that 4x is unsustainable, but at the same time we have a significant pool of buyers sitting at current ratios of 1.5x, making housing HUGELY affordable. I’m not saying that this explains the current situation, I’m just making a point that there is a time dynamic that needs to be accounted for.

  85. grim says:

    Finish the series dammit

  86. Michael says:

    66- rags, who the hell made that list? Def someone who never had to work at the bottom their whole life. Honestly, that sounds like propaganda from some boss trying to con his workers to work harder for him. If it’s so good working hard and going the extra mile, then how come owners and managers don’t do come and do the dirty work? Please explain, since it’s so good to go the extra mile for your boss, how about the boss go the extra mile for the worker? Here’s a little tip, you want your workers to work harder, then pay them the wage it will take to get them to work harder. Paying them crap with no opportunity to move up will not get you hard workers. It’s really not rocket science.

  87. Libturd in the City says:

    Rags.

    That’s funny. I make a habit to say hello to everyone including the security guards and cleaning people and always hold the elevator and even hit the floor buttons for everyone. It’s all part of leading by example. I too am the one who cleans up the conference room and throws out everyone’s trash. It’s funny. You can spot the Michael’s a mile away. They don’t even notice you cleaning up after their sorry entitled asses. Those raised right will then join in to help me. And I don’t do it to make a point. I just hope that one day they’ll return the favor. I don’t believe in Karma nor am I at all superstitious. And I know that if you give, frequently you won’t receive (shut up JJ). But I feel better knowing the likelihood of getting help in return is at least moderately increased.

    By the way, our new CEO just used the word ‘impactful’ in his initial missive. I don’t like him already. :P

  88. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Forgot to post the “All MSAs” complete series that really shows how stable the metric is for 21 years straight until 2001.

    1980 3.1
    1981 3.1
    1982 3.0
    1983 3.0
    1984 2.9
    1985 2.9
    1986 2.9
    1987 3.0
    1988 3.0
    1989 3.0
    1990 3.0
    1991 3.1
    1992 3.1
    1993 3.1
    1994 3.1
    1995 3.0
    1996 3.0
    1997 3.0
    1998 3.0
    1999 3.0
    2000 3.1
    2001 3.4
    2002 3.6
    2003 3.7
    2004 4.0
    2005 4.4
    2006 4.6

  89. grim says:

    92 – all msa nationally? this clearly misses a number of local bubbles that existed over those time periods.

  90. Fast Eddie says:

    Where is the property tax variable when computing these house price to income ratios? Did I miss it?

  91. Michael says:

    71- lol….this list is more realistic. Rags list was a joke. That list must have come from the 1950s, when it paid to work hard. Presently, anyone going the extra mile while working at Walmart type jobs are an idiot. What is the incentive to work hard? Rags thinks that you can grab any job and as long as you work extra hard, you will be successful and rich. How do you believe that crap?

  92. grim says:

    94 – Where is the list that includes food, energy, education, and everything else that has gotten more expensive relative to inflation over the past 20 years?

  93. Fast Eddie says:

    Ragnar [87],

    Indeed. Always be humble and grateful, regardless. L1berals don’t understand the concept; they’re too busy blaming someone or something for their deficiencies.

  94. Libturd in the City says:

    Michael,

    It is rocket science apparently (to you). I busted my ass in and out of college. First professional job I took paid $18,000 per year in 93. I often worked 60-70 hour weeks at that place and my boss often bounced my paychecks, didn’t give me the transit checks that were deducted from my checks and promised benefits that never came to fruition. What I learned busting my ass there is that what I’m not getting paid fairly for now is a hell of a lot cheaper than paying some liberal arts college to supposedly teach me what I am learning. I worked that job and quadrupled the size of my team in 4 years. Heck, two of the people I trained there work for me in my current employ. They too were dedicated workers. The big issue there was that the owner of the boutique firm had absolutely no clue how to run a business or manage money. She also undercharged her clients significantly because she did not properly value the strength and client-dedication of her team.

    When I voluntarily left there, I drew a line in the sand as to the minimum salary I would accept at my next employ. It was significantly higher than even I thought I was worth, but I stuck to it. It took me nearly a year to land the job I currently have and when they finally made the offer, it was $5,000 below the line. I confidently turned it down. They had already spent more than that courting me. I’m pretty sure that HR just figured I would accept it after working so long for peanuts. The next day they offered it back, but only if I hit easily obtainable performance goals. I did of course and they have treated me quite golden since. But I do work for it and don’t blame the CEO when the economy tanks and our companies revenue is halved.

    It must be nice to have someone who just gifts you an investment property. Now THAT’s not rocket science.

  95. Fast Eddie says:

    grim,

    94 – Where is the list that includes food, energy, education, and everything else that has gotten more expensive relative to inflation over the past 20 years?

    Excellent questions! That’s my point. This house price to income ratio is useless. It doesn’t apply. In fact, the previous models and metrics no longer apply. No rules any longer. Be fleeced or the be the fleecee!

  96. Michael says:

    If this was 400 years ago, you would be the serf singing “god save the queen”. You would also be telling everyone that divine right is true, the king received his right to rule from god. I could so picture it. You are so lost, it’s not even funny. You are right, God bless the rich, they have created my lifestyle, my hard work had nothing to do with it. You guys are nuts. You give way too much credit to the elite class. You need to take a step back and look at the big picture.

    Fast Eddie says:
    July 10, 2014 at 2:27 pm
    G0d bless the rich. Without them, a lot of us would not have the lifestyle we currently enjoy.

  97. JJ says:

    Ape in New House

    We have just bought a new house, but it has an ape in it. A friend tried to scare it off, but it tore his arm off and did something sexual to him.

    Any ideas? This has never happened to us before.

  98. grim says:

    99 – Yeah, but since when does something becoming expensive preclude it from becoming more expensive? Gas isn’t going down to a dollar a gallon any time soon. I’m sure we all bitched when it hit $2.00, but that didn’t change anything.

  99. Libturd in the City says:

    Michael…you are an ignoramus.

  100. Fast Eddie says:

    Michael,

    If this was 400 years ago, you would be the serf singing “god save the queen”.

    And if my aunt had b@lls, she’d be my uncle.

  101. Michael says:

    Don’t be so quick to judge. You guys bust my balls for getting a 50,000 dollar break from my grandmother, but protect the elite class. Makes no sense.

    Listen, I’m happy for you. You did the American dream. Congrats. The part that you seem to miss is that there are thousands of you out there that did not make it. They worked just as hard as you, but it didn’t work out for them. Do you understand everyone can’t be a manager or boss, someone has to do the crap work. For some people, there really is no point in working hard, it will get them nowhere. You and a lot of people out there don’t get this. You can’t just look at life only through your experience. I’m sure there are people that worked half as hard as you and are more successful than you. It goes both ways. But bottom line, there aren’t enough jobs period, never mind good jobs. This is why the welfare system exists. Do you think the govt wanted a welfare system?? Hell no, it came out of need. This is why I hate hearing wealthy people complain about welfare and taxes. My advice to them, go create jobs if you want to get rid of welfare and high taxes. More people working means less taxes for everyone. So f the 1 % dude. They suck.

    Libturd in the City says:
    July 10, 2014 at 3:56 pm
    Michael,

    It is rocket science apparently (to you). I busted my ass in and out of college. First professional job I took paid $18,000 per year in 93. I often worked 60-70 hour weeks at that place and my boss often bounced my paychecks, didn’t give me the transit checks that were deducted from my checks and promised benefits that never came to fruition. What I learned busting my ass there is that what I’m not getting paid fairly for now is a hell of a lot cheaper than paying some liberal arts college to supposedly teach me what I am learning. I worked that job and quadrupled the size of my team in 4 years. Heck, two of the people I trained there work for me in my current employ. They too were dedicated workers. The big issue there was that the owner of the boutique firm had absolutely no clue how to run a business or manage money. She also undercharged her clients significantly because she did not properly value the strength and client-dedication of her team.

    When I voluntarily left there, I drew a line in the sand as to the minimum salary I would accept at my next employ. It was significantly higher than even I thought I was worth, but I stuck to it. It took me nearly a year to land the job I currently have and when they finally made the offer, it was $5,000 below the line. I confidently turned it down. They had already spent more than that courting me. I’m pretty sure that HR just figured I would accept it after working so long for peanuts. The next day they offered it back, but only if I hit easily obtainable performance goals. I did of course and they have treated me quite golden since. But I do work for it and don’t blame the CEO when the economy tanks and our companies revenue is halved.

    It must be nice to have someone who just gifts you an investment property. Now THAT’s not rocket science.

  102. anon (the good one) says:

    that list is typical right wing FUNDAMENTALISM

    Michael says:
    July 10, 2014 at 3:48 pm
    71- lol….this list is more realistic. Rags list was a joke. That list must have come from the 1950s, when it paid to work hard. Presently, anyone going the extra mile while working at Walmart type jobs are an idiot. What is the incentive to work hard? Rags thinks that you can grab any job and as long as you work extra hard, you will be successful and rich. How do you believe that crap?

  103. Michael says:

    105- the elite can get rid of welfare right now!!! Why don’t they do it?? They can provide jobs to everyone of those welfare recipients, but they rather socialize (push) the cost of the bottom dwellers on the rest of the population. Then when they avoid taxes through off shore accounts, they have totally shafted the rest of the population to pay for the people with no jobs and no way to take care of themselves.

  104. NJGator says:

    And yes, there are actual Republicans in Montklair.

    New Jersey Assemblyman Declan O’Scanlon to speak at Montclair Republican Club dinner

    The deficit in pension liabilities for public employees is the “big elephant in the room” for New Jersey’s state budget, according to Montclair Republican Club President John Van Wagner.

    The club, Van Wagner said, will delve deeply into the topic of pensions, along with other issues involving New Jersey’s budget, during tonight’s dinner meeting with Assemblyman Declan O’Scanlon, whose presentation is appropriately titled, “Taxes, Trenton & You: Perfect for Whom?”

    The meeting will be held at Marzullo’s Restaurant & Café at 117 Grove Street. Seats are $30.

    O’Scanlon, who represents District 13, composed of Monmouth County municipalities, is the Assembly’s Republican budget officer. He told The Montclair Times that the discussion will span several governmental topics, but will focus on budgetary concerns such as the state pension plan and school funding.

    “That’s going to be a big part of it,” O’Scanlon said of the state’s pension plan. “Even with the reforms that we did in 2011, the pension obligation as it is presently constructed is going to be very difficult to sustain. A system that completely falls apart is worse than a program that makes adjustments.”

    O’Scanlon said a healthy state budget should have about 5 to 7 percent tied to pension obligations. The 20-year outlook for New Jersey’s budget prior to the 2011 reforms had pension obligations exceeding 25 percent of the state’s budget, he said.

    Current projections have the allotment leveling off at about 13 percent, according to O’Scanlon. He said that the blame for such a predicament can be spread among past elected officials and union representatives, all whom should have known that the system is unsustainable.

    With New Jersey among the nation’s most highly taxed states, O’Scanlon said, a collaborative effort is needed to reform the state pension system and make it sustainable for taxpayers.

    “Nobody is saying that they should shut these things down,” O’Scanlon said. “This should be a collaborative effort…

    “The bottom line is, the sooner we deal with this, the better. The longer we wait, the harder it’ll get.”

    In addition to pension reform, O’Scanlon said that capping state-sponsored school funding would save hundreds of millions of dollars, rather than providing some districts $30,000 per student for a “lousy” education.

    In O’Scanlon’s estimation, tax dollars saved in pension and school funding reform could go toward other needs such as the state’s transportation trust fund, and provide tax relief for residents of New Jersey.

    – See more at: http://www.northjersey.com/news/montclair-gopers-public-pensions-the-elephant-in-the-room-1.1049456#sthash.uL6gzabX.dpuf

  105. anon (the good one) says:

    well, the rich need to work a bit harder because your lifestyle is lacking. your dream house still remains a dream

    Fast Eddie says:
    July 10, 2014 at 2:27 pm
    G0d bless the rich. Without them, a lot of us would not have the lifestyle we currently enjoy.

  106. Michael says:

    Actually the rich should be thanking the workers for their lifestyle. Without them, their lifestyle could not exist. Workers lifestyle would survive without the rich. Ironic, don’t you think?

    anon (the good one) says:
    July 10, 2014 at 4:29 pm
    well, the rich need to work a bit harder because your lifestyle is lacking. your dream house still remains a dream

    Fast Eddie says:
    July 10, 2014 at 2:27 pm
    G0d bless the rich. Without them, a lot of us would not have the lifestyle we currently enjoy.

  107. Fast Eddie says:

    anon (the good one),

    A dream house at another’s dream price? It’s like dividing by zero. :)

  108. joyce says:

    That may well be true. I do not know who you work for. If it’s for a multinational or other large public firm… i think you’re mistaken in your assessment.

    Fast Eddie says:

    July 10, 2014 at 2:48 pm

    joyce,

    Yes, I am aware of it. My family were small business owners for years and employed about two dozen people. However, the perks and benefits I currently enjoy are due to those who took a chance, became wealthy and opened the door to an opportunity.

  109. joyce says:

    What an A-hole. Ragnar, dont you know it’s his civic duty to overpay!? $9 for a slice of pizza for him.

    Ragnar says:
    July 10, 2014 at 3:23 pm

    But the founder of my firm, worth nine figures, still … searches to find cheap parking at the airport, cheap flights, etc.

  110. Fast Eddie says:

    joyce,

    The firm was founded during the Reagan years and currently employs a few thousand people. I wish I could say more. :)

  111. joyce says:

    Retard,
    We already discussed how the true welfare queens are those in the corporate sphere (i’m not saying all are welfare queens, just that the major ones happen to be in that environment). We already discussed how the welfare state directly and indirectly benefits the top/protected class. Directly through the monetary/regulatory/legal/tax sysems. Indirectly via medicaid/foodstamps and all the other programs taking those costs and socializing them. Can you not remember from one day to the next? You’re a freakin’ child.

    Pass whatever you’re smoking…

    Michael says:
    July 10, 2014 at 4:11 pm

    Do you think the govt wanted a welfare system?? Hell no, it came out of need.

  112. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [93] grim – I’ll send you my spreadsheet if you want. I think I took two data sets and created the metric as each cell has a ton of decimal places but no formulas so I probably pasted it after calculating it in another place, it was 3 years ago that I put it all together so I’m not sure. I’m pretty sure the numbers are right because I think all of the MSA data came from one dataset of Median house prices nationally and broken out into the MSA components. Maybe the ballast of the fairly static lower tiers holds down any bubble effect from the ritzy areas on the overall data? Was there a national spike in median housing price in 1987 that was unaccompanied by a national spike in median income? As long as median income rises and falls with median housing price you won’t see a bubble in the national ratio…kind of the whole point.

    92 – all msa nationally? this clearly misses a number of local bubbles that existed over those time periods.

  113. joyce says:

    I should have waited to post. Our resident retard (well, one of them) contradicts himself a few mere minutes later. Go back to the sandbox.

  114. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    If you add all the MSAs together, that’s still a subset of the overall market, but what’s excluded is mostly rural, right?

  115. anon (the good one) says:

    “We have to remember the murders and the lynchings just as we have to remember the Holocaust. History does repeat itself. There is no certain immunization against going backwards, but the best chance of preventing retrogression is to remember, to be vigilant, and to be ready to act when we see signs of it appearing.”

    @BillMoyersHQ:
    50 years later, we must remember the courage of the people of Mississippi & other Jim Crow states @peterbedelman http://t.co/ULfRLaCbdx

  116. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    joyce – just skip reading his posts entirely. I get through these comments SO much quicker now. OTOH, sometimes I just read Nom, grim, clot, and JJ, so YMMV.

  117. joyce says:

    [did i post this already?]
    For each sample from the facilitators, Pfizer provided a six-page report, each with the same conclusion: “Authentic Pfizer manufactured drug product not intended for distribution in the U.S. market.”

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101805014?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity

  118. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [121] cont’d AND 30 year! Despite today’s dust-up, 30 year’s reports from the field are taken as gospel by me and I appreciate all his chaff-less wheat.

  119. grim says:

    MSA doesn’t necessarily correspond only to major metropolitan areas, it’s relative for the area.

    Many of the smaller MSAs include areas that would likely be considered rural. But there are many rural areas that aren’t included in MSAs.

  120. joyce says:

    Don’t hurt yourself anon

    During the Reconstruction period of 1865–1877, federal law provided civil rights protection in the U.S. South for freedmen – the African Americans who had formerly been slaves. In the 1870s, Democrats gradually regained power in the Southern legislatures, having used insurgent paramilitary groups, such as the White League and Red Shirts, to disrupt Republican organizing, run Republican officeholders out of town, and intimidate blacks to suppress and discourage their voting. Extensive voter fraud was also used. Gubernatorial elections were close and disputed in Louisiana for years, with increasing violence against blacks during campaigns from 1868 on. In 1877, a national Democratic Party compromise to gain Southern support in the presidential election resulted in the government’s withdrawing the last of the federal troops from the South. White Democrats had regained political power in every Southern state.[3] These conservative, white, Democratic Redeemer governments legislated Jim Crow laws, segregating black people from the white population.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws

    anon (the good one) says:
    July 10, 2014 at 5:02 pm
    “We have to remember the murders and the lynchings just as we have to remember the Holocaust. History does repeat itself. There is no certain immunization against going backwards, but the best chance of preventing retrogression is to remember, to be vigilant, and to be ready to act when we see signs of it appearing.”

    @BillMoyersHQ:
    50 years later, we must remember the courage of the people of Mississippi & other Jim Crow states @peterbedelman http://t.co/ULfRLaCbdx

  121. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    Wow , kicked the hornets nest today. Will say more when I’m not on an iPhone in traffic.

  122. Ragnar says:

    Haha, the trolls goaded some of you into responding to them. They enjoy losing 7-1 as long as you’re kicking their ba11s.

  123. phoenix says:

    11. I understand the world is not fair, and I’m OK with that. I do not resent the success of others.
    11a I understand that all do not play fair, will cheat on their taxes (justified of course),
    hide money (justified of course) hire illegals(hey, it’s ok, just doing business), hire/fire based on nepotism(justified of course),brownnose,lie, etc do everything it takes to win (world is not fair, justified).
    11b Teach your kids to be prepared to stab/lie/cheat/steal/be unethical. Remember, the world is not fair. Remember Libturd’s comment of the day (wrong caste, guy is best worker,but never going to be boss). Same thing happens here. Politicians, judges, cops (those who make laws) of course, not all, have been caught cheating, stealing and lying on a daily basis.
    The truth comes out even more with technology. Hard work alone can make you a winner, but rattle the closets of these so called “winners” and you will find that there is no halo over their heads. It’s a facade.
    Rattle the close

  124. phoenix says:

    Some great posts today. The golden rule in America is that there are rules, but they are made to be bent back and forth all day long. These rules are no rigid, they are made to be constantly tested and poked for weaknesses, if you succeed you win, if not, pay a penalty and move on. Only sheep follow the rules to the letter.

  125. grim says:

    Teach them to lie, cheat, or steal? No, but teach them they will be lied to, cheated, and stolen from.

    Much more damaging to a young person than to tell them the oft repeated lie, that “doing what you love” will be sufficient to provide for a livelihood.

    Much rather we taught that it was most important to be useful.

  126. Ragnar says:

    Maybe just teach them that by voting for and tweeting about voting for the right person, all their dreams can come true thanks to someone else’s hard work.

  127. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    [127] rags

    Yup. Still tied up but I may get something out tonight, and will follow up with something that happened to me today that left me absolutely thunderstruck.

  128. Michael says:

    I understand the biggest welfare queens are the corporate elite. My post about welfare was focused on the welfare that the wealthy complain about. The food stamps, bama phones, etc. I was trying to make a point that the haves complain about it, but directly benefit from the stability it brings to our society.

    joyce says:
    July 10, 2014 at 4:54 pm
    Retard,
    We already discussed how the true welfare queens are those in the corporate sphere (i’m not saying all are welfare queens, just that the major ones happen to be in that environment). We already discussed how the welfare state directly and indirectly benefits the top/protected class. Directly through the monetary/regulatory/legal/tax sysems. Indirectly via medicaid/foodstamps and all the other programs taking those costs and socializing them. Can you not remember from one day to the next? You’re a freakin’ child.

    Pass whatever you’re smoking…

    Michael says:
    July 10, 2014 at 4:11 pm

    Do you think the govt wanted a welfare system?? Hell no, it came out of need.

  129. Juggalo4eva says:

    chi (50)-

    Throwing shade on the Juggalo culture is beneath you, kind sir.

  130. Juggalo4eva says:

    ragnar (66)-

    Add as 11): I pledge to cap all the fascist mf’ers who are running the country into the ground.

    Then, I’ll sign it.

  131. Juggalo4eva says:

    stu (91)-

    You know what to do: one to the bean.

    “By the way, our new CEO just used the word ‘impactful’ in his initial missive. I don’t like him already. :P”

  132. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I just found out they actually sell diet Faygo in orange flavor!

  133. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    [63] michael

    Not sure I took the same perspective but the same idea. Essentially, Stiglitz is arguing that unfettered economic systems will redistribute wealth on their own. I agree. But the laws he complains of are often laws INTENDED to amerliorate the effects of capitalism and instead lead to more inequality. Case in point: Min. wage laws. You increase the cost of labor capital relative to physical/intellectual capital and guess which starts to look better. Case in point: Regulation: Has a laudable purpose but can become a barrier to competition and can further the same effect as minimum wage.

    Of course, Stiglitz may be referring to laws that let people keep their property. Like the 5th Amendment “takings” clause. Do I infer he has a problem with that?

  134. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    [62] Michael

    “People like you fight this tooth and nail. If it’s common sense, why do you fight it so much?”

    First, it isn’t common sense. Not all of it. Second, I fight it because it will do more harm than good.

  135. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    [58] michael

    “Nom, you will blindly back the republican party and their beliefs till the day you die. Whatever they say, pretty much becomes your talking point. Let go of the left and right bs debate. You are much smarter than that. Political parties are for muppets.”

    You haven’t been paying very close attention, have you? I dispute “blindly”, but I vastly prefer the GOP versus what the Dems have become. As for left and right, I agree that there are more nuanced positions, but left v. right is a useful construct and suffices in the absence of a better one.

    BTW, does anyone else find it amusing that the progressive and Tea Party brands of populism are pretty close to one another? I’ll be damned if I can find someone of either side that will admit it though.

  136. Juggalo4eva says:

    Expat, WTF is “diet Faygo”, some sort of orange flavored fairy jizz?

  137. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I already don’t read Michael. Now I need a way to stop reading my favorite commenters responding to Michael. It’s a small market, but I think I can develop an app for this.

  138. Juggalo4eva says:

    Goddam f@ggots and darkies are running us into the ground.

  139. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [142] Exactly.

  140. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    [55] boomers,

    So your argument is that the sentiment oft ascribed to Tytler must be wrong because:

    1) He was a royalist
    2) He might not have said it.

    Well, thanks for that. I will give it the consideration it deserves.

  141. Juggalo4eva says:

    Where’s a good soccer riot when you need one?

  142. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    ^^^^ Clot – You’re not faux juggalo, right?

  143. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    There, I think I responded to the folks who were expecting a nonresponse. Sorry if it seemed abbreviated but I think I gave your comments the consideration they deserved.

    Now for an epiphany.

    Earlier today, I was at an ice cream shop with my younger daughter. Her mom was out with older sis and I felt she deserved a water ice because her sister got one after practice the night before.

    I was engaged in a dialogue on facebook (on a mutual friend’s page) with a person I regard as an absolute tool, a total hater of a liberal who is apparently an attorney in Tennessee. Near as I could figure, he got somewhere in state gov on coattails, then change of administration and he found himself bitter and on the street. I am firmly of the opinion that he is a few french fries short of a Happy Meal.

    To put things in perspective, I would glady share a beach house with anon, Michael, cobbler, Joyce, and 30 Yr. for the summer than to spend one more minute reading this a-hole’s posts. And what is most infuriating is that he sounds like so many here but without any semblance of an idea. It’s just hate, spew, snark, bile. If we ever find ourselves in a zombie apocalypse, I am driving to Tennessee and busting a cap in this guy’s skull. He is utterly and completely odious and contemptible in a way I have not found anyone here, not even Fabius, anon or the late schabadoo. Anyway, you get the idea.

    So today, we are at a table, eating water ice, and I read his post in which he says something close-mindedly stupid, while, amazingly, calling me close-minded. It was also in the vein of a Fabius response so you can imagine how I felt about it. I was in the process of replying when my beautiful 5YO daughter (and a few of you can vouch for this) looked up from her water ice and said to me “Daddy, stop typing and talk to me.”

    Right then and there, I realized I was ignoring my little girl, who only wanted my attention, while I replied to this tool. Bear in mind, this is a person I consider so vile that if God gave me a pass to off one person and still get into heaven, I’d ask God to put this guy before me and I’d gut him with a spork. He wasn’t worth the effort it took to type the response, let alone craft it, and here I was preferring him to my daughter.

    I told him as much, stopped notifications on the story, and stopped the newsfeed from the mutual friend. I did my friend the courtesy of explaining why.

    Anyway, that applies not just to facebook but to all of the diversions that have been bleeding my time and, as it turns out, my soul. Also, rather than do something half-assed, better to not do it at all. Not saying that I won’t lurk or comment from time to time, but 30 yr reminded me of something and the tool from Tennessee hammered the point home: This just isn’t worth it.

  144. Faux Juggalo says:

    grim – were my tiered MSA historical reports deleted from earlier today? I think I posted ’99, ’87, and 2006. I saw them at work but they seem to be gone now?

  145. Michael says:

    I don’t understand how it will do more harm than good. I see it the opposite way. I want to avoid chaos (revolutions) at all costs. I see this inequality issue, if left unchecked, leading to a revolution. Revolutions are almost always violent. I do not want to go through that. Why not just try to fix the problem before it gets to that point? Any negative effect that comes from trying to address the problem surely can’t be worst than a revolution.

    The thing I hate most about revolutions is that it pretty much solves nothing. It just creates a period of chaos to replace one leader with another.

    Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:
    July 10, 2014 at 10:01 pm
    [62] Michael

    “People like you fight this tooth and nail. If it’s common sense, why do you fight it so much?”

    First, it isn’t common sense. Not all of it. Second, I fight it because it will do more harm than good.

  146. Juggalo4eva says:

    xpat (148)-

    Straight up 8 mile Motor City h@rdcore Juggalo, mofo.

  147. Juggalo4eva says:

    Actually, my old assistant GM from the store used to hang with them in Detroit. Says they’re super chill.

  148. Michael says:

    Family comes first, but don’t discount the benefits that come from intellectual debates. It’s great exercise for the mind. Keeps your writing and thought process sharp (proven by your intelligent and well written posts) Don’t be so hard on yourself. Passion is a beautiful thing. Passionate people are the true world changers.

    “Anyway, that applies not just to facebook but to all of the diversions that have been bleeding my time and, as it turns out, my soul. Also, rather than do something half-assed, better to not do it at all. Not saying that I won’t lurk or comment from time to time, but 30 yr reminded me of something and the tool from Tennessee hammered the point home: This just isn’t worth it.”

  149. Libturd at home says:

    Going forward, we should all refer to Michael as Passion Fruit.

  150. phoenix says:

    Michael,
    Not that I want to speak for Nom, but I can see both your points and his.
    The way I see it you have not given up, but he looks at things as if the train already left the station and the future is going to be every man for himself and that there is no hope.
    O’man may have good intentions, but you can’t save them all.
    Some are so lazy and entitled they will never change.
    On the top, some are so ruthless/uncaring they would light children on fire to make money.
    The rest are the one’s in the middle toiling away.
    It does not end.
    The upper class is trying to distance itself from a complete breakdown in society which it believes is coming. They are connected and well armed. I am just a middle class worker in a profession ranked near the top in ethics, work with professionals every day which is a blessing in itself, so much to learn from the best and the brightest.

    I try to look at things from a broad perspective-I have to agree with Nom and Clot, the die is cast. Sucks to think that way when you have a small kid. All I can do now is lift her as high as I can and hope she flies.

    The election between O’man and Romney was like having a gun put to your head on the side of a cliff, jump or be shot. Neither one looking out for the middle class working guy, either pandering to the rich and the senior citizens vs pandering to those that don’t even pretend to work.
    As clot would say, Smoke ’em if you got ’em.

  151. Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:

    [157] phoenix

    I like the train analogy. I use one often but the one I use is that everyone is on the train, it’s heading for the washed out bridge, and both sides are fighting over the throttle.

    I’m going to bed and will be out of pocket for much of the next three days. Maybe longer as I ruminate on what my 5YO said. I can’t underscore enough just how thunderstruck that left me.

  152. phoenix says:

    By the way, many in my professional arena are wealthy. This wealth has been obtained thru pure talent, hard work and education. They earn every dime and deserve it.
    They don’t sue to get rich, they were not born with silver spoons, etc.
    They are very dedicated to what they do. They work all day, they work all night. The beepers and phones ring non stop.
    They are from different religions, nationalities, etc, but all work extremely hard in a profession many think they should do for free because they “took an oath.” Many of their clients are ungrateful, at least most are thankful. I am proud to be part of the team working with them.
    I hope to never see their work outsourced as some here suggest for profit or lower cost.

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