September Case Shiller

Case Shiller Day – Not that anyone is going to talk about it…

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114 Responses to September Case Shiller

  1. grim says:

    Obama’s faux pas about “going to make good tv” turned out to be right.

  2. Grim says:

    I wonder about the economic impact to the broader St Louis and Missouri economies. We’ve seen first hand in NJ the impact of the Newark riots on what was then a vibrant economy. Surely the Ferguson area will become a ghost town, making the economic situation for the residents even worse.

  3. anon (the good one) says:

    @ShaunKing:
    The government story is this: Mike Brown gets shot, runs 148 feet away, and then decides to kill himself by running into a hail of bullets.

  4. Grim says:

    What Government? This was a Grand Jury. At least 9 citizens decided there was not sufficient evidence to bring charges.

    In the statement that preceded the decision, it was clear that a large number of witnesses, many who made public statements, made statements which included major inaccuracies, had changed their stories as evidence was made public, or had outright lied and perjured themselves. It was clear that the majority of public “testimony” released by the press had mislead the public into concocting their own story of events.

    Now we hear that the Federal investigation is going to continue? For what? Are we looking for justice or a lynching? Or is this just a veiled attempt to pacify the violence?

  5. anon (the good one) says:

    @FiveThirtyEight:
    Of 162,000 federal cases in 2010, grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11 #Ferguson

  6. Comrade Nom Deplume, on the way to Skyline says:

    Wonder how many people are going to call in sick today in Newark and Trenton?

    And I see this place filled its quota of 40% stupid before I got here, so maybe I’ll call in sick too.

  7. Comrade Nom Deplume, safe at home says:

    That is, before I change this outdated handle. Never did get to Skyline.

  8. anon (the good one) says:

    your question is to the cops, right?

    @MotherJones:
    St. Louis County cops have killed at least 14 people. None was charged.
    #Ferguson

    Grim says:
    November 25, 2014 at 6:56 am

    Are we looking for justice or a lynching?

  9. We were planning on leaving for NJ tomorrow. Now it looks like we’ll have to do a midnight run to avoid tomorrow’s chaos. Now I just have to decide what’s too early to leave. I’m guessing leaving any time before 10PM is too early.

  10. nwnj says:

    For sure, all hope is lost. The writing was on the wall since August(and apparently well before that), anyone with the means should GTFO. The rot will continue to fester now that the only remaining denizens are the human sludge, any productive people will move on to a more secure community.

    My favorite part of the episode were the peace signs that some people were holding prior to the anarchy. Was does peace in the hood look like exactly, random violence and open air drug markets? Was there peace in any of the NJ shltholes last night despite the being no rioting?

    Grim says:
    November 25, 2014 at 6:30 am
    I wonder about the economic impact to the broader St Louis and Missouri economies. We’ve seen first hand in NJ the impact of the Newark riots on what was then a vibrant economy. Surely the Ferguson area will become a ghost town, making the economic situation for the residents even worse.

  11. No reported looting or violence in Branson, MO.

  12. Can’t Obama just use an executive order to execute Darren Wilson?

  13. Toxic Crayons says:

    Newswire : Housing segregation played role in Ferguson, Mo. tragedy
    on OCTOBER 29, 2014 · NO COMMENTS · in CRIME, EVENTS, GOVERNMENT, NEWS, SCHOOL NEWS

    By Freddie Allen

    NNPA Senior Washington Correspondent

    WASHINGTON (NNPA) – The shooting death of Michael Brown, an unarmed Black teenager, in Ferguson, Mo. Darren Wilson, a White police officer, was as much as the product a century of housing segregation spurred by federal, state and local policies as longstanding tension between Blacks and police, according to a new report by the Economic Policy Institute (EPI).

    Richard Rothstein, a research associate at the nonpartisan think tank and author of the report, said that the long pattern of housing segregation was not an accident.

    “It wasn’t because of people’s choices, it wasn’t because African Americans were too poor to live in middle class neighborhoods. It’s because they were purposefully locked into segregated neighborhoods because of federal, state and local policies,” he said.

    The report said that “In St. Louis these governmental policies included zoning rules that classified White neighborhoods as residential and Black neighborhoods as commercial or industrial; segregated public housing projects that replaced integrated low-income areas; federal subsidies for suburban development conditioned on African American exclusion,” and restrictive covenants that made it illegal for Whites to sell property or even rent to Black families in certain neighborhoods, despite their relative incomes.

    St. Louis ordinances that deemed Black neighborhoods suitable for commercial development that was barred in the White suburbs contributed to the slum-like conditions found in the inner city.

    “Not only were these neighborhoods zoned to permit industry, even polluting industry, but taverns, liquor stores, nightclubs, and houses of prostitution were permitted to locate in African American neighborhoods, but prohibited as violations of the zoning ordinance in residential districts elsewhere,” stated the report.

    The report noted that the Federal Housing Administration (FHA), established during the New Deal and crafted to support White homeownership, denied those same opportunities to Blacks.

    The EPI paper included analysis of the FHA’s impact on Black homeownership released by the United States Commission on Civil Rights’ (CCR) in 1959.

    “Nonwhite home buyers and renters have not, however enjoyed the benefits of FHA mortgage insurance to the same extent as whites. According to testimony given before this Commission, less than 2 percent of the total number of new homes insured by FHA since 1946 have been available to minorities. Most of this housing has been all-Negro developments in the South.…Although the relatively low participation [of ] nonwhites has in part been due to their lower incomes, FHA bears some responsibility,” stated the CCR report.

    “Of great significance in this respect are FHA’s policies with regard to the discriminatory practices toward Negroes of real estate boards, homebuilders and lending institutions. For the first 16 years of its life, FHA itself actually encouraged the use of racially restrictive covenants. It not only acquiesced in their use but in fact contributed to perfecting them.”

    The 1959 CCR annual report continued: “The 1938 FHA Underwriting Manual, which contained the criteria used in determining eligibility for receipt of FHA benefits, warned against insuring property that would be used by ‘inharmonious racial groups,’ and declared that for stability of a neighborhood, ‘properties shall continue to be occupied by the same social and racial classes.’ The Manual contained a model restrictive covenant which FHA strongly recommended for inclusion in all sales contracts.”

    The EPI report said that although many of the laws that encouraged housing segregation were prohibited in the late 20th century their effects still linger today.

    Fifty years after the landmark Brown v. Board of Education Supreme Court decision “several elementary schools in Ferguson today are 90 percent African American and no elementary school is less than 75 percent African American; educational performance in such racially isolated settings is inadequate.”

    Rothstein said that that there’s no way to raise the achievement of low-income African American students as long as they’re locked into segregated, high-poverty schools.

    Rothstein said that because the segregation of metropolitan areas nationwide and “the creation of virtually all-Black low-income communities like Ferguson was not a result of “White Flight,” and instead caused by specific governmental policies, the remedies will also require government intervention.

    Rothstein recommended that all suburbs be required to accept subsidized and low-income housing and multi-unit buildings. The EPI researcher also suggested forbidding landlords from refusing subsidized renters.

    “It’s a mistake to think that the problems being protested in Ferguson are simply about the interactions between police and Black men and boys in the community,” said RothsRothstein continued: “Unless we understand how Ferguson went from being a all-White suburb to a virtually all-Black suburb we’re never going to be able to get to the root of the police problems or any other problems that the community faces.”

  14. grim says:

    Look I’m generally highly critical of zoning, more often than not zoning gets it wrong, not right. Zoning boards are largely staffed by quasi-political figures with little to no actual training in anything, and often operate in a highly political manner.

    However, you can not look at this outside of the context of the history of urban development and postindustrial decay in the United States, going back more than 100 years.

    Mixed use is not a new phenomenon, it was simply the way things worked 100 years ago. Cities like Newark or Trenton, which were major economic powerhouses, and wealthy too, were a mish-mosh of residential, industrial, commercial, and retail. Every corner had a store, every block had a bar, every body could walk to the plant to work. This isn’t new.

    Even the smaller residential areas followed a similar pattern. Growing up in Clifton, we saw the vestiges of the corner bar, the corner store. There were more than 100 “corner bars” just in blue collar, white (albeit immigrant white) Clifton.

    All it takes is a drive through Newark, Paterson, Jersey City, Trenton, Camden, Philly, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Detroit, etc etc etc to see this. Major industries co-located with row house developments. Driving through Passaic just the other day, past the old US Rubber/Manhattan Rubber/Uniroyal factory. It’s got to be nearly a million square feet, massive buildings, 4 stories tall, multiple sub basements. This place made rubber, it was dirty, nearly a million square feet – it probably employed 10,000 people. There were bars and stores across the street when it operated, and it only took a block walk to be in a what was largely residential. Above every bar and store was residential.

    But to claim that it was somehow systematically put there to punish the residents? Hogwash, it was there because there was land, and it was for sale, there was a river and a railroad, so they built a factory. Now nearly 100 years later, the area is poor, and the building is an eyesore. The area is rough, redevelopment was hoped for for 30 years now. But to claim somehow this zoning was punitive?

    Yes, there were plenty of concerted efforts to segregate in American history, but the decay of US cities in the post-industrial period is a wholly separate, but related phenomenon. To build industrial in the middle of nowhere (eg the suburbs) simply makes no sense. These areas were largely farm land, and had nearly no access to major shipping methods, river and rail, and no access to heavy power. Likewise, they had no easy access to labor. Cities rose up around the industry, not the other way around, don’t forget that.

    This statement almost seems nonsensical when contrasted to the history of these areas:

    The report said that “In St. Louis these governmental policies included zoning rules that classified White neighborhoods as residential and Black neighborhoods as commercial or industrial;

    You can’t take these previous mixed use zones and re-define them as only residential, like you could in the suburbs, who were largely planned communities (I’m not talking about rural and farm areas). These were industrial and commercial areas because the history largely dictated it to be so.

    This guy has got the chicken and egg all wrong. It takes nothing more than a quick look at the geography of these post-industrial wastelands to understand that it was access to shipping methods and the growth of industry that built these areas, not the corresponding suburbia that emerged.

    As the industrial renaissance began to falter, these neighborhoods began to decay, and with decaying neighborhoods comes low-cost housing, so the poor lived here, out of necessity, not out of design.

    This is more of the story of the decline in industrial American cities than insinuating some kind of forced segregation.

  15. Ragnar says:

    Chairman O is always right and all branches of government must obey.
    Like all budding tyrants, he asks all individuals to defer to the collective, to which he has a special direct connection and ability to command.

  16. Ragnar says:

    “Losing Ground” by Charles Murray can explain a lot of Ferguson, Trenton, Camden, etc. Basic theory: US welfare policies breed ongoing dependency rather than incentivizing education and work.

  17. nwnj says:

    The progressive activist types see a racial boogeyman everywhere they look. They’ve integrated a racial perspective into every aspect of their lives. It makes them feel better and is more consistent with their own worldview to blame their problems on race rather than acknowledging individual shortcomings.

  18. grim says:

    13 – I’d trust this guy long before I trust the rich white lawyer mentioned there…

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/umar-lee/spanish-lake_b_5507408.html

  19. chicagofinance says:

    Just saying the protests in NYC looked more like the OWS leftovers looking to relive their personal Woodstock….how does a white person have the ball$ to be marching out there….as Malcolm X responded to a white supporter at Columbia University….what can I do to help support your cause?…..answer…..nothing….

  20. chicagofinance says:

    Look at the NYC photos….everyone is white…..WTF is this? It is embarassing….

  21. grim says:

    Heard there is a protest scheduled at Princeton.

    Snicker.

  22. grim says:

    Was there any evidence at all presented that indicates that Wilson was in any way racist or violent?

    The testimony I read through indicated he was a pretty laid back guy, not involved in any incidents that would at all be considered racially motivated or excessively violent.

    Testimony from his superiors indicated that he never had any kind of reprimand, in fact the only items in his employee record were positive commendations.

    From the testimony, prior to the incident, he had been in the neighboring apartment complex where he was helping a young mother and baby, leaving only after EMS had arrived.

    Look, I’m pretty critical of cops, and I know all about the blue shield or blue wall. But this was a high profile grand jury case, if there was anything, it would have been brought out. For god sakes the FBI was involved. Maybe they could hide something at the local or state level, but they aren’t hiding it from the FBI.

    I think this was the first time Wilson had actually ever fired his weapon outside of the range (can anyone confirm that?).

  23. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    I’m not surprised that there was no indictment. It’s hard to expect a fair trial when you share a common view. For the most part, people generally side with law enforcement regardless of the circumstances. Law enforcement has discretion to use whatever force they deem possible….and be completely justified in whatever that is. Cases like this show that it’s not about right vs wrong, its more about whether it was a “justified” response, which will always be the case. Cops success record on getting off is as impressive as the SEC’s record in going after people. Probably a 90% success rate.

    How do you have a conversation with your son about the news. A teenager is killed by officer despite not having a weapon. A teenager handcuffed in the back seat of a cop car somehow gets a gun and shoots himself? You see a cop killer and an ensuing manhunt, and the guy is not “justifiably” killed but is bought to jail?

    BTW, you can clearly see Officer Wilson’s orbital fracture in these pics.
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/24/justice/gallery/darren-wilson/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

  24. jj says:

    CHIFi, tommorrow and Friday good day to pick up Munis in secondary. Lots primary offers last few days and inventory floating around with few buyers, see plenty of odd stuff you can pick up at almost 4 percent

    January is going to be lots of calls and new money to work so too late to invest “cheap”

  25. Mike says:

    Back in the sixties there was an Elizabeth Mayor Tom Dunn who gave his policemen orders “shoot to kill” that kept the riots in Newark from rolling over into Elizabeth. This made national headlines. From the internet: Mr. Dunn’s bluntness was also evident in his approach to city social problems. In 1967, when neighboring Newark was gripped by race riots, Mr. Dunn issued a ”shoot to kill” order to police. Some called the order overly harsh, but others credited it with preventing the violence from spilling over into Elizabeth.

  26. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    Nothing wrong with shoot to kill orders if applied equally.

    Two guys kill an officer of the law. One is a former officer and the house where he is held up is burned down with him in it. Another a gun enthusiast is somehow bought in alive. Yea yea different circumstances but its always different.

  27. Fast Eddie says:

    jj,

    Is the looting last night in Ferguson their version of Black Friday?

  28. clotluva says:

    23 FKA

    “How do you have a conversation with your son about the news.”

    Pretty easy, I think: “If you play with fire, sometimes you get burned.”

    Also, there is a big difference between having mistrust in authority and having outright contempt for it (to the point where you would escalate a confrontation after being caught committing a crime red handed).

  29. nwnj says:

    Jay Nixon is a weasel. I’m sure he was sworn to uphold the laws in MO, but he’d rather placate a bunch of thugs(AKA his base).

  30. Mike says:

    FKA Number 23 & 27 Check your spelling : killed but is bought to jail? Another gun enthusiast is somehow bought in alive. The word is brought.

  31. jcer says:

    29, bingo don’t mess with the law. I make no qualms, about it, don’t mess with cops. When I was about 17, I was in a friends car driving down the turnpike and we got into a road rage incident with an elderly lady doing about 40 mph, sure enough she called the cops told them we were waiving a gun and the next thing you know four state troopers with guns drawn and us face down on the pavement next to the turnpike, an illegal warrant less search of the car(they did not ask permission). Did we protest or do anything other than comply, did we make any legal claims for a warrant less search or an excessive use of force? One must realize the police are trigger happy and it has less to do with race than anyone cares to admit. If Mike Brown was a white kid who did what he did, he’d still be dead. Lesson learned DON’T engage the police short 1 word answers, and when you are caught, you are caught, and never touch a police office, you’ll get a beat down best case scenario.

  32. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    Sadly spellchecker has made me lazy.

    Agreed if the confrontation escalates, it usually wouldn’t end well especially if you are in certain areas. I also have to teach him to be aware that although he is the same person I raised to be good person, a cop will have different assumptions about him and engage him differently if he’s in Short Hills than he would in Newark.

  33. grim says:

    I’ve had a gun pointed in my face in short hills, and I’m white, but that’s a story for a less public forum.

  34. clotluva says:

    32 jcer

    One could also take the whole police element out of it. I dare say the outcome might not have been any different had the kid pulled the same thing on a strapped OG from the street. Regulators gonna regulate.

  35. Happy Renter says:

    [3] “The government story is this: Mike Brown gets shot, runs 148 feet away, and then decides to kill himself by running into a hail of bullets.”

    We don’t need a “story” and I don’t care what was going through Big Mike’s drug-addled brain when he bull-charged the police officer. He got what was coming to him for attacking a police officer after robbing a convenience store. Yawn.

  36. Happy Renter says:

    “How do you have a conversation with your son about the news. A teenager is killed by officer despite not having a weapon.”

    Pretty simple conversation: “Son, don’t attack police officers. Even if you think they are unreasonably detaining you or searching you, there is a legal process that can deal with that later. In the heat of the moment, you do everything you can to calmly state your rights (e.g. I do not consent to having my vehicle searched) but do nothing to escalate the situation.”

    I know, I know — that is so very difficult to comprehend.

  37. Happy Renter says:

    Was I the only one hoping to see a tear-gas canister knock little brother Cuomo in the head last night on CNN?

  38. [23] FKA

    “How do you have a conversation with your son about the news.”

    Tell him not to smoke pot, steal cigars, intimidate shop clerks, and try to forcibly take a police officer’s gun from him when he gets caught walking down the middle of the street holding a box of stolen cigars. At least encourage him not to do all of these things in one hour’s time.

  39. [40] Or if your son is already a street thug, just tell him, “When you be goin’ out to get paid, watch out nobody be lookin’ to pay you back.”

  40. joyce says:

    Agreed.
    What do you recommend your kids/people do when the “legal process that can deal with that later” (always) fails to hold the govt officials accountable?

    Happy Renter says:
    November 25, 2014 at 11:33 am
    “How do you have a conversation with your son about the news. A teenager is killed by officer despite not having a weapon.”

    Pretty simple conversation: “Son, don’t attack police officers. Even if you think they are unreasonably detaining you or searching you, there is a legal process that can deal with that later. In the heat of the moment, you do everything you can to calmly state your rights (e.g. I do not consent to having my vehicle searched) but do nothing to escalate the situation.”

    I know, I know — that is so very difficult to comprehend.

  41. grim says:

    40 – You forgot “assault a police officer”

  42. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    LOL….you have no idea. If only it were that simple. It’s like stating a walk down the street is the same whether you are in Millburn as it is in Frankfurt, or Mexico City. Just remember you have rights and don’t escalate the situation and you will be fine whereever you are.

  43. joyce says:

    43
    To continue to agree with you, yet expand on my comment: It’s also very possible that the police are the ones that escalate (usually physically) certain situations. And in some (albeit not every time), you might end up dead and have ZERO recourse after the fact.

    It’s still possible to get shot when you ARE following the instructions of the officer:
    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/cop-asks-for-mans-license-shoots-him-when-he-reaches-for-it/380775/

  44. joyce says:

    When someone says “when a cop has a gun pointed at you, do what they say” … I’ve always responded “when ANYONE has a gun pointed at you, do what the say.”

    With process/legal system the way it is today, yes – your best bet is to not do anything and just submit. My problem is with the system (and the sociopaths and psychopaths it attracts).

  45. chicagofinance says:

    Q: Does dashboard cam in squad car record conversation of Brown and Wilson? This situation is not he said/she said…..there are recordings and many (albeit conflicting) witnesses…..Ex-Pat…..I can’t really scan 4800 pages…..is there a particular enlightening set of paragraphs?

    Am I too cynical, or is it the ones who wish to protest don’t want the fact to get in the way of a good story? Where’s joyce when you need her?

  46. chicagofinance says:

    Joyce…..didn’t see your posts at the end of the thread….it was an honest request…..

  47. grim says:

    I was looking for testimony of the accomplice, can’t find it. Did they even put him on the stand?

  48. chicagofinance says:

    fact = facts

  49. Happy Renter says:

    “What do you recommend your kids/people do when the ‘legal process that can deal with that later” (always) fails to hold the govt officials accountable?'”

    What are you asking? In this case, the legal process worked perfectly; there was nothing to hold Wilson accountable for, since it was the fault of the man who attacked him.

    If you’re asking generally what do I say to my son about the imperfect legal process, well, first things first. You teach your son that by not escalating a confrontation with the police, he will avoid a potentially life-ending mistake. If it turns out the police were wrong to stop/search/detain/arrest him or whatever, and the legal process fails to address that afterward, you teach your son that it’s something you can all complain about sitting around the family dinner table. The system isn’t perfect, but he’ll have the entire rest of his life to complain about it.

  50. Happy Renter says:

    “To continue to agree with you, yet expand on my comment: It’s also very possible that the police are the ones that escalate (usually physically) certain situations. And in some (albeit not every time), you might end up dead and have ZERO recourse after the fact.”

    Indeed, it is. I can’t teach my son some magic that will avoid all possible danger. But talking about ways to minimize the risk of these type of confrontations turning deadly, that’s what you teach your son.

    Last time a cop stopped me at night, I just kept my hands on the wheel and when he came up and asked for license and registration, I said “OK – it’s in the glove box, I’m going to get it, OK?” I wanted to make sure he saw that I was not reaching for a gun or something. Did I HAVE to do that? No. But it’s common sense.

    Pretty much everything I teach my son can be distilled down to: “Life isn’t fair.” and “It’s a jungle out there.” Everything else is just detail about how to work with that and have a good life.

  51. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    It’s fairly simple to me, if you do a crime, then you should do the time. Mike Brown was no angel and should be sitting in a jail. If that was the case, there would be nothing in the news, there would be no one protesting his jail sentence. Compare that storyline to Eric Frein, who shot and killed one officer and wounded another officer and is currently sitting in jail. It’s natural to wonder why a teenager with cigars was considered more dangerous than a guy with a high powered rifle.

    [52] Happy Renter

    “The system isn’t perfect, but he’ll have the entire rest of his life to complain about it.” That’s a hard pill to swallow but is the best that can be done.

  52. Happy Renter says:

    “It’s natural to wonder why a teenager with cigars was considered more dangerous than a guy with a high powered rifle.”

    Give me a break – you’re not that stupid. No one said anything about anyone “considering” Mike Brown more dangerous than Eric Frein.

    If you can’t comprehend the difference between a 290 lb man suddenly attacking a police officer at close quarters in his squad car on the street, and the capture of Eric Frein by the manhunt that tracked him down, you are brain dead.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/01/saw-black-hat-us-marshals-describe-capturing-suspected-cop-killer-eric-frein/

    “I saw the black hat,” team leader Scott Malkowski told Fox News’ Shepard Smith. He said the team then fanned out to get closer to Frein. “Once he got through the grass, I saw his hands,” Malkowski said. “He had no weapon. Twenty-five meters out he turned to me. He finally saw us.”

    Frein made no attempt to flee and didn’t put up a fight. The marshals ordered Frein to keel and to put his hands in the air. They then ordered him to lie face down on the ground. “Once we handcuffed him, I asked him who he was. He said, ‘Eric Frein,'” Malkowski said.

  53. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    [53] Happy Renter

    Pretty much everything I teach my son can be distilled down to “life isn’t fair” and “it’s a jungle out there”. Everything else is just detail about how to work with that and have a good life.

    True indeed. I’ve had that same conversation with ppl wanting to be traders but didn’t go to an Ivy. Or how the 6 Degrees of Separation benefited an obviously average person get ahead of more qualified people. Or why Ms Perky was chosen over Ms Consistent.

  54. Happy Renter says:

    “True indeed. I’ve had that same conversation with ppl wanting to be traders but didn’t go to an Ivy. Or how the 6 Degrees of Separation benefited an obviously average person get ahead of more qualified people. Or why Ms Perky was chosen over Ms Consistent.”

    It’s amazing how much one can increase his happiness by just realistically dealing with the world in which he lives, rather than the fantasy world he thinks should exist.

  55. Happy Renter says:

    I think Cosby was out there in disguise on the streets of Ferguson last night, trying to whip things into more of a media feeding frenzy.

  56. Happy Renter says:

    Could swear some of those projectiles looked like Jello Pudding Pops.

  57. [48]Chi-Fi – I just paged through and read witness testimony for three different witnesses. It was very easy to piece together the facts from all the common elements. Every witness saw a violent struggle through the drivers window of the cop’s SUV. They all said the cop appeared to be pulling him in while he was attempting to pull the cop out. They all said there was at least one shot fired during this struggle. They all agreed that Brown ran away and seconds later the cop emerged with his gun drawn. They all agreed that Brown turned back around to face the cop. That’s where the stories diverge, but the evidence shows up who is mis-remembering. For example, a woman says he turned around with his hands up and that’s when he was killed dead on the spot. No one else claims he raised his hands, the rest say he either charged back fast at the cop or fell toward the cop or stumbled toward the cop, but his blood is found at something like 20 or 30 feet further away then where his body fell, so he covered that distance back in some fashion at some speed.

  58. grim says:

    Just paged through the Dorian Johnson testimony, I see why they didn’t give much credence to his story, there were a number of major inconsistencies with the physical evidence: Said Brown wasn’t in the car when the first shot was fired (he was), said he never touched the gun (he did), said he was initially shot in the chest (he wasn’t), said he was shot in the back as he was running away (he wasn’t), and said Brown didn’t move any closer to the officer after running away (Brown’s blood was found 20 feet further up the road, indicating he had moved back).

  59. joyce says:

    52-53
    Don’t forget to teach him, “no body = no murder”

    A lot of holes in the desert, and a lot of problems are buried in those holes. But you gotta do it right. I mean, you gotta have the hole already dug before you show up with a package in the trunk. Otherwise, you’re talking about a half-hour to forty-five minutes worth of digging. And who knows who’s gonna come along in that time? Pretty soon, you gotta dig a few more holes. You could be there all f-ckin’ night.

  60. grim says:

    64 – That is the perfect opening paragraph … nevermind.

  61. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    This is an Apache shooting ISIS, what a horrible shot. This is no video game.

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/eBEU-OiEvII

  62. clotluva says:

    September Case Shiller NYC Price Index down 0.03% from August to 178.15. Still only 17% off the historical high of 215.83 recorded in June of 2006.

    Buy your overpriced decaying time capsule now, or be priced out forever.

  63. grim says:

    NY Metro Tiered Index

    (Under $286433) – Up 3.12% YOY
    ($286433 – $461938) – Up 2.88% YOY
    (Over $461938) – Up 2.97% YOY
    (Overall Market) – Up 2.83% YOY

    (These numbers are weird .. I’ve never seen the aggregate be lower than the others).

  64. Happy Renter says:

    [64] Nah, I won’t teach him that; that would be premeditated murder. If he has to, in self-defense, he may just have to dig quickly.

  65. Toxic Crayons says:

    CNN showed split screen of Obama’s speech….with riots escalating out of control….

    http://www.nationaljournal.com/white-house/obama-s-split-screen-appeal-lost-in-ferguson-s-anger-20141124

  66. anon (the good one) says:

    @chrislhayes: Curious to hear from defense attorneys today about the GJ proceedings: How does it compare to how things normally go down for your clients?

    @dmsarad: @chrislhayes not in the same world. This was a unique proceeding.

    @tara_ganguly: @chrislhayes The idea that one of my clients could testify before GJ WITHOUT BEING CROSS EXAMINED by pros is ludicrous. Literally insane.

    @onlymattjohnson: @chrislhayes everyone I’ve talked to says it’s unprecedented to have a defendant testifying in Grand Jury proceedings

    @DavidKaib: @chrislhayes You might want to ask people who have served on grand juries too. Mine was nothing like this.

  67. jj says:

    NYC condos up 10% yoy

    grim says:

    November 25, 2014 at 2:00 pm

    NY Metro Tiered Index

    (Under $286433) – Up 3.12% YOY
    ($286433 – $461938) – Up 2.88% YOY
    (Over $461938) – Up 2.97% YOY
    (Overall Market) – Up 2.83% YOY

    (These numbers are weird .. I’ve never seen the aggregate be lower than the others).

  68. All Hype says:

    @ShaunKing:
    The government story is this: Mike Brown gets shot, runs 148 feet away, and then decides to kill himself by running into a hail of bullets.

    Yep, that about sums up the Mike Brown shooting. Any questions?

  69. Toxic Crayons says:

    I don’t think any of the traders here went to ivies…. Heck some didn’t even major in business. Two whom I know very well, have computer science degrees.

    I get your point but not your analogy…

    FKA 2010 Buyer says:
    November 25, 2014 at 1:03 pm
    [53] Happy Renter

    Pretty much everything I teach my son can be distilled down to “life isn’t fair” and “it’s a jungle out there”. Everything else is just detail about how to work with that and have a good life.

    True indeed. I’ve had that same conversation with ppl wanting to be traders but didn’t go to an Ivy. Or how the 6 Degrees of Separation benefited an obviously average person get ahead of more qualified people. Or why Ms Perky was chosen over Ms Consistent.

  70. Juice Box says:

    “Michael Brown’s stepfather consoled the dead teen’s distraught mother after Monday’s controversial grand jury announcement and then turned to the crowd of demonstrators, saying, “Burn this mother f—er down” and “Burn this bitch down,” according to a New York Times video.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/25/us/michael-brown-stepfather-video/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

  71. Juice Box says:

    Pants down burn this bitch down.

  72. jj says:

    When I used to consult at Merril back in 2001 the CEO had an MBA from St. John’s. But they started in late 90s hiring for trader training program only from Ivy League Schools.
    The CEO made a joke when I was consulting if you want to be a Junior Trader at Merril Lynch you need a Harvard MBA but if you want to be a CEO of Merril Lynch you need a St. John’s MBA.

    Sadly that dumkoff Stanley O’Neal the next CEO drove the place into the toliet with bad MBS and Subprime bets.

    Stanley O”Neal did have a Harvard MBA, but apparantly no street smarts of common sense.
    Toxic Crayons says:

    November 25, 2014 at 3:15 pm

    I don’t think any of the traders here went to ivies…. Heck some didn’t even major in business. Two whom I know very well, have computer science degrees.

    I get your point but not your analogy…

    FKA 2010 Buyer says:
    November 25, 2014 at 1:03 pm
    [53] Happy Renter

    Pretty much everything I teach my son can be distilled down to “life isn’t fair” and “it’s a jungle out there”. Everything else is just detail about how to work with that and have a good life.

    True indeed. I’ve had that same conversation with ppl wanting to be traders but didn’t go to an Ivy. Or how the 6 Degrees of Separation benefited an obviously average person get ahead of more qualified people. Or why Ms Perky was chosen over Ms Consistent.

  73. Happy Renter says:

    So, the Obama Administration was actually ticked off that the prosecutor, in announcing the grand jury verdict, didn’t go out of his way to try to paint Brown as a victim (ticked off that the prosecutor didn’t mention during last night’s press conference that Brown was unarmed)? Did the Obama Administration think that portraying Brown as the victim would help make the jury verdict go down more easily with the thugs?

    And Holder refused to join the prosecutor while the jury verdict was delivered, or to share the results of the federal investigation to date. Nice.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/26/us/politics/holder-finds-dwinding-options-to-ease-fergusons-tensions.html?_r=0


    Several federal officials said they were frustrated by Mr. McCulloch, who criticized journalists and recounted the evidence without ever mentioning that Mr. Brown had been unarmed.

    Mr. Holder was particularly angry that Mr. McCulloch invoked his name when announcing the local investigation’s findings, federal officials said. “As promised by me and Attorney General Holder, there was a full investigation and presentation of all evidence,” Mr. McCulloch said.

    Mr. Holder had worked for months to establish the Justice Department as a credible, independent investigator. He refused repeated entreaties to join local officials in Ferguson. They had hoped that if Mr. Holder simultaneously announced his findings, it would reassure the African-American community and help prevent unrest.

  74. nwnj says:

    #75

    They really disgraced this kid if they really feel he was innocent.

    Memorializing him by smoking blunts and doing smash-and-grabs on the corner liquor store doesn’t help to lift the suspicion that maybe we wasn’t the innocent character that they were trying to portray him as.

  75. Juice Box says:

    re # 78 – He did not seem innocent, but at the same time 12 shots were unwarranted, two in the car and 1o more on the street. We may never know how they Grand Jury vote went. All the Feds need to do is find once instance of any kind of racism in Wilson’s past and they will be able to get a Federal Grand Jury indictment on Civil rights violations. They may never find it even with dozens of FBI agents investigating and Holder will be gone soon anyway and the FBI’s focus may be changed back to anti-terrorism. Didn’t you hear more ISIS were found in Minneapolis.

    I do feel sorry for the community there because their leaders Crump and Sharpton are all hucksters and will be long gone soon, all they will have left is their smoldering city.

  76. Juice Box says:

    No surprises here it’s New Jersey.

    “Kean College, a publicly-funded university in New Jersey, is under criminal investigation for spending $219,000 on a custom-built conference table, reports the Daily Mail. And the school could shell out an extra $51,000 in additional fees before the table is finished.

    Kean President Dawood Farahi defended the spending on the table and said, it is “small-minded” to focus so much on a school purchasing a table for $200,000, during a campus interview with a local news publication. Farahi earns about $300,00 a year and received a $200,000 bonus last year. Kean students pay more than $44,000 to earn a four-year degree.

    Read More Russians dumping rubles for… Rolls Royces?

    The 22-foot circular table, made of oak and cherry veneer, can seat 23 people. It has a world map that lights up and also has a glass turntable that is motorized. Farahi said if the table was built in the United States, it would have cost the school $500,000.”

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/102216975?trknav=homestack:topnews:4

  77. grim says:

    82 – Funny the picture I saw of the room has a full table surrounded by additional chairs for those who could not be accommodated by that monstrosity. So they spent $200k on a table, and it isn’t big enough.

  78. grim says:

    So if a 6’4 280 pound guy is unarmed, and he assaults a female officer weighing 125 pounds, she shouldn’t shoot him if she fears her life is in danger?

    I understand the issue here, I’m not being insensitive to it, but I fail to see how anyone can establish this as a general criterion? At what point should an officer be able to fight back against an assailant and not use force, because they are big enough or man enough to take a few punches? As far as I understand it, there is no criterion that a police officer needs to be an MMA expert, capable of expert hand to hand combat.

    So what’s the deciding factor? When the guy is pounding on the 125 pound female officer on the ground, it is more important the he’s assaulting a police officer, or that he is unarmed?

  79. chicagofinance says:

    Where is the recording from the squad car?……if Brown was quoted by Wilson under oath with the threat that Wilson was “….to much of a pussy…” to shoot Brown, doesn’t that imply the idea that Brown being unarmed is superfluous? He figured he was safe from mortal harm and did not respect the badge…..

  80. chicagofinance says:

    chicagofinance says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    November 25, 2014 at 4:25 pm

    Where is the recording from the squad car?……if Brown was quoted by Wilson under oath with the threat that Wilson was “….to much of a p^ssy…” to shoot Brown, doesn’t that imply the idea that Brown being unarmed is superfluous? He figured he was safe from mortal harm and did not respect the badge…..

  81. chicagofinance says:

    Previously did not see this one…..I’ll give the guy credit for having a set….
    “When the president was talking last night about training the police, of course, the police should be trained,” Giuliani said. “He also should have spent 15 minutes on training the [black] community to stop killing each other. In numbers that are incredible — incredible — 93 percent of blacks are shot by other blacks. They are killing each other. And the racial arsonists, who enjoyed last night, this was their day of glory.”

  82. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (English Pun Edition):

    Florida man watching gay p0rn busted for assaulting male passerby

    The Florida man, named Phuc Kieu, was watching gay p0rn on a portable DVD player in his green Honda Civic when he grabbed a male passerby, punched him and dragged him into his car. He then tried to straddle him before the victim managed to escape.

    A Florida man with an obscene-sounding name was hit with a slew of felony charges after pulling a man into his car while watching gay p0rnography.

    Phuc Kieu, 58, was watching the p0rn in his green Honda Civic Sunday afternoon in a bank parking lot, according to the Smoking Gun.

    “The defendant parked his vehicle, laid the driver’s seat all the way back and proceeded to watch homosexual p0rnography on a portable DVD player,” according to a Gainesville Police Department report.

    When a male passerby walked by after withdrawing cash from an ATM, Kieu got out of his car, punched the victim in the mouth and grabbed his backpack with the $220 he withdrew, according to the police report.

    The crazed Vietnamese immigrant then dragged the victim into his car, straddled him and tried to tear off his shirt, belt and pants.

    The victim, 21, eventually managed to escape after grabbing Kieu’s car keys. He ran away, yelling, “Rapist!”

    Kieu is charged with sexual assault, kidnapping and robbery without a weapon.

    He is being held in the Alachua County jail in lieu of $150,000 bond.

  83. Fast Eddie says:

    88 – Phuc Kieu – LOL!!

  84. Happy Renter says:

    [84] Grim the only PC-approved pronoun is “child” (“boy” is also acceptable, although not preferred; “teenager” is disfavored). Under no circumstances should Saint Michael be referred to as a “guy” or a “man.”

    Also, whenever you invoke his holy name, we prefer that you post a photo of him from age 14.

  85. Liquor Luge says:

    Good riddance to this Mike Brown character. Unfortunately, his death doesn’t put even the tiniest dent in the national numbers of lazy, violent and entitled bags of shit just like him.

    And, lest the race-baiting pea brains here have a go at me, there are a fair few whites in the above-mentioned group.

  86. czxvmhpqf says:

    September Case Shiller | New Jersey Real Estate Report
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  87. Liquor Luge says:

    “A cesspool filled with excrement exploded in a central Chinese city, injuring 15 residents and toppling a building on Saturday, police said.

    Police in Zhangjiajie city, Hunan Province, believed it was an accident when a man surnamed Ding was burning waste outside his derelict house and near the cesspool at about 5 p.m..

    Police said the fire ignited the methane emanated from the pit and caused the blast. The house has been abandoned since 2006.

    The blast occurred at Dayongqiao community of Yongding District. One residential building collapsed, and four others were damaged.

    The injured people have been hospitalized. Local residents have been settled properly.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-24/explosive-excrement-topples-building-china-15-injured

  88. United Bronx Zoo Chipmunks against Donald "the scalper" Trump says:

    We for one nominate the greatest douche of NY, par none in an area filled with many candidates, we offer you – Donald “I inherited 20 million but make it look like I came from the ghetto” Trump.

    Our second nomination is Roger Ailes, finding ways of destroying America to fill his Nixon retribution complex.

    Our third nomination is Rupert Murdoch. Crappy australian immigrant whose ex was likely chinese spy, doing the best to destroy the country by selling papers and commercial. Does not stand low enough to have his editors hack phones of a family whose child was murdered to sell papers. Of course he could not done it alone, Clinton removed the restrictions in place since the Great Depression to prevent egomaniac like this.

    Good riddance to this Mike Brown character. Unfortunately, his death doesn’t put even the tiniest dent in the national numbers of lazy, violent and entitled bags of shit just like him.

    And, lest the race-baiting pea brains here have a go at me, there are a fair few whites in the above-mentioned group.

  89. Hughesrep says:

    Which TV to loot?

    Any opinions on ultra HD 4K TV? Watch a lot of sports. I know there’s not much 4K out there, but the price is only a few hundred.

    Flat screen, not curved.

  90. anon (the good one) says:

    @NewsBreaker:
    BREAKING:

    Protests underway in New York City for second night over grand jury decision – @CNN

  91. anon (the good one) says:

    @7im: McCulloch’s dad was a cop, who was killed in a shootout at a housing project

  92. Toxic crayons says:

    National Bar Association Statement:

    WASHINGTON, DC – The National Bar Association is questioning how the Grand Jury, considering the evidence before them, could reach the conclusion that Darren Wilson should not be indicted and tried for the shooting death of Michael Brown. National Bar Association President Pamela J. Meanes expresses her sincere disappointment with the outcome of the Grand Jury’s decision but has made it abundantly clear that the National Bar Association stands firm and will be calling on the U.S. Department of Justice to pursue federal charges against officer Darren Wilson. “We will not rest until Michael Brown and his family has justice” states Pamela Meanes, President of the National Bar Association . . .

    President Meanes is requesting that the citizens of Ferguson, Missouri not allow this decision to cause an unnecessary uproar in the community that could lead to arrests, injuries or even deaths of innocent people. “I am asking for everyone to remain as calm as possible and to join in solidarity as we continue to support the family of Michael Brown and put our legal plan into full effect” says President Meanes “I feel the magnitude of the grand jury’s ruling as Ferguson, Missouri is only minutes from where I reside”, adds President Meanes.

    Over the last couple of months, the National Bar Association has hosted Town Hall meetings informing attendees of their Fourth Amendment (Search & Seizure) constitutional rights, whether it is legal to record police activity, and how citizens should behave/respond if and when they interface with police officers. “The death of Michael Brown was the last straw and the catalyst for addressing issues of inequality and racial bias in policing, the justice system, and violence against members of minority communities,” states Pamela Meanes.

    The family of Michael Brown requested that District Attorney McCullough step aside and allow a special prosecutor be assigned to the investigation to give the community confidence that the grand jury would conduct a complete and thorough investigation into the tragic shooting death of 18 year old Michael Brown. The grand jury’s decision confirms the fear that many expressed months ago — that a fair and impartial investigation would not happen.

    “The National Bar Association is adamant about our desire for transformative justice. While we are disappointed with the grand jury’s ruling, we are promoting peace on every street corner around the world. The only way to foster systemic change is to organize, educate, and mobilize. We are imploring everyone to fight against the injustice in Ferguson, Missouri and throughout the United States by banding together and working within the confines of the law,” states President Meanes.

    For complaints related to Ferguson, please contact the FBI 24 Hour Hotline at 314-589-2500.

  93. Juice Box says:

    Car plows through protesters at Mike Brown rally http://youtu.be/KONn3PBb9kI

  94. Juice Box says:

    Rest of the story and better video.

    mostly crazy white people.

    http://m.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/283891941.html

  95. McDullard says:

    If we consider a case where race is not part of the equation, many cops in India are corrupt, have a sense of entitlement, and actively demand extortion money. Do you think, with all the union protections, “tough on crime” laws, and leniency in asset seizures, there is potential for some bad apples taking advantage of the situation? And, with very powerful guns in the hands, don’t you think there is more danger overall?

    Wouldn’t you have preferred a situation where Michael Brown was arrested and not killed? What about the case of the 12 year old kid that died when a cop mistook his very-realistic toy gun for a real gun (well, why can’t the stupid dems at least fight for banning such toys if they don’t have the balls to fight the NRA)?

    There must be a better solution than, “your kid will die the first time he/she is rude to the cops”? This, in contrast to situations where guys that gun down cops and citizens in movie halls are captured without any damage to them (it seems to be independent of race — the Arora shooter, the DC sniper, the philly woods guy, Fort Hood shooter).

    I believe the cops have far too much firepower at disposal (tens of shots seem to be an average), and seem to be prepared to fight an invading army. Any minor mistakes in such situations will end up with tragic outcomes. Imagine a scenario where someone posts some stupid drug-related stuff here, and another idiot gives a tip to the local police department, which gets on a SWAT raid — the poster is very pissed off, and goes to the door to demand an apology from the cops, only to get shot — 50 times. Imagine a scenario where the person didn’t even post anything at all. Why would one want such a society? The only thing that makes me feel a bit safer is that the area is considered a decent area, and the township cops seem to be decent (despite me fighting traffic tickets regularly and complaining about the process).

  96. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Well I think we can all agree that people who owned property in Fergeuson are now underwater muppets. You prob couldn’t give away property in that area now. It’s completely worthless.

    I still can’t believe they made this into black and white issue. It’s 2014, let the race card go already.

  97. Liquor Luge says:

    Don’t know where I heard it, but we need a little more law and a little less justice.

  98. Liquor Luge says:

    Fcuk it; what we need is to burn the motherfcuker down and start over.

  99. Liquor Luge says:

    Anarchy is the way!

  100. McDullard says:

    #103… It is a complex issue — excessive use of force by cops, manifests more in “troubled neighborhoods”, which is correlated with wealth, which in turn is correlated with race. Add to this the “he is big thug that deserved to die” narrative, and if you try hard, some nut somewhere will chime in on why the 12 year old kid deserved to die too.

    It is very much easy to interpret it as a systemic black vs white situation because black kids were needlessly killed. But there are also white 1st grade kids in Newton that were needlessly killed, and the NRA is laughing all the way to the bank. The crowd should be protesting against the weaponization and guns rather than one cop.

  101. McDullard says:

    Hughes #95… I saw one 4k TV in Costco (the curved Samsung one). Looks like it does some anti-aliasing, so the picture looks nicer even for 1080p content. If you can also use it as a your computer monitor, you get more screen space (say, for working on your laptop with some part projected on the TV).

  102. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    Curved TVs are a scam according to some guys I met who sell them.

  103. Juice Box says:

    4k TV. I have one, 1080p is up scaled since there are more pixels. 4k content is sparce, even on Netflix. CHECK THE MODEL Netflix does not support all 4k TVs. 6K TV is coming too, so is 8K and so on and so on.

  104. anon (the good one) says:

    interesting points

    McDullard says:
    November 25, 2014 at 10:43 pm

    #103… It is a complex issue — excessive use of force by cops, manifests more in “troubled neighborhoods”, which is correlated with wealth, which in turn is correlated with race. Add to this the “he is big thug that deserved to die” narrative, and if you try hard, some nut somewhere will chime in on why the 12 year old kid deserved to die too.

    It is very much easy to interpret it as a systemic black vs white situation because black kids were needlessly killed. But there are also white 1st grade kids in Newton that were needlessly killed, and the NRA is laughing all the way to the bank. The crowd should be protesting against the weaponization and guns rather than one cop.

  105. Liquor Luge says:

    Somebody tell the NY Times to publish anon’s address.

  106. matz crorkz says:

    yFBQh4 There’s noticeably a bundle to find out about this. I assume you made sure nice factors in options also.

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