New Jersey – Great place for the wealthy

From the Star Ledger:

N.J.’s income gap has widened significantly since 2000, report shows

The income gap between New Jersey’s wealthiest residents and all other groups has widened significantly since the turn of the century, and grew worse after the recent Great Recession lifted, according to a new report.

Only the top 20 percent of households in the state has seen their average income increase since the recession ended in 2009, according to the study released today by Legal Services of New Jersey, an Edison-based organization that gives free legal help to low-income residents in civil cases.

And black and Hispanics in the Garden State have seen their median household income decline at a greater pace than white households after the recession faded, according to the report, which studies data from 2000 to 2013.

“This is unsettling, discouraging, and challenging most of all,” said Melville D. Miller Jr., Legal Services’ president. “It’s a national issue as well as a state issue, but New Jersey’s high cost of living makes it a sharper issue here.”

The numbers mirror a national trend. A report released this week by the Pew Research Center showed the wealth gap between the nation’s top 20 percent and the rest of the country is at its widest point in three decades.

But while experts say the U.S. has made strides recovering in the wake of the recession, New Jersey has witnessed a slower rebound than many other states.

Though it typically ranks as one of the wealthiest states in the nation, New Jersey saw its poverty level reach a 52-year high in 2011, according to a recent Legal Services study. Nearly a third of the state’s residents were considered poor in 2012, another study showed.

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74 Responses to New Jersey – Great place for the wealthy

  1. Fast Eddie says:

    Only the top 20 percent of households in the state has seen their average income increase since the recession ended in 2009…

    Think about how that influences the Plankton Theory.

  2. grim says:

    Seems that going forward, it’s going to be good practice that if someone campaigns with a promise of “change”, vote against them.

  3. Fast Eddie says:

    Sold for $800,000 back in 2007; currently sitting for the last four months at $749,000. Thank goodness this town is bleeding wealth as I’ve been told:

    http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1429328&openhouse=true&dayssince=&countysearch=false

  4. grim says:

    Happy Solstice, I have my deck chairs arranged like Stonehenge for one last time before I pack them away for the winter..

  5. The Great Pumpkin says:

    They are bleeding wealth in the towns you are looking. Every town you are looking at would fall in the top 20%. The article states that 1/3 of the state is living in poverty. This is who you are talking about(bag holders), not the people living in Ridgewood or Woodcliff lake. This is a product of capitalism buddy. We are usually ranked no 1 in terms of wealthiest state in America. Under capitalism, you need a strong base of poor to support the wealthy. Meaning you need a specific amount of poor to support every millionaire. If the millionaires are getting wealthier, you need even more poor to support that same millionaire. With our state having the most millionaires in its ranks it has ever had, it’s only natural under a capitalist system that the poor ranks will rise with the rise in millionaires. I’m sorry that you will never understand this. I’m sorry that you are left with the erraneous thought process that the poor can escape poverty if only they worked hard and had an education. Keep thanking the wealthy, buddy. Shows your true intelligence.

    Fast Eddie says:
    December 21, 2014 at 8:47 am
    Sold for $800,000 back in 2007; currently sitting for the last four months at $749,000. Thank goodness this town is bleeding wealth as I’ve been told:

    http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1429328&openhouse=true&dayssince=&countysearch=false

  6. Essex says:

    Haves. Have Nots. Let the games begin.

  7. grim says:

    Fulop really wants a casino in JC, they should keep building office buildings and luxury housing, give it one or two more years and all of NYC may move to NJ. I was walking up to Bryant Park the other day, up 42nd, and couldn’t not think about how much I missed the good old days.

  8. Ragnar says:

    Last night I explained to my daughter and 7th grade friends why they have crusty old teachers watching the clock to retirement, and what it’s like where salary and advancement is systematically divorced from merit. They are ready for me to found a charter school for the academically advanced kids in our town.

  9. The Great Pumpkin says:

    This is exactly what I was scared of with the growing inequality. I fall in the haves category, and this will not make me feel comfortable about my future. It’s starting to get real out here with the fight between the rich and poor. This whole cop debate is nothing more than a fight between the haves and have nots. The cops protect the wealthy and are seen as the hand of the rich. Hopefully, this is the extent of this, but with the cop shootings yesterday, this might only be getting started. I hope not.

    Essex says:
    December 21, 2014 at 9:52 am
    Haves. Have Nots. Let the games begin.

  10. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You are sick. What are you teaching your kids?

    Ragnar says:
    December 21, 2014 at 10:00 am
    Last night I explained to my daughter and 7th grade friends why they have crusty old teachers watching the clock to retirement, and what it’s like where salary and advancement is systematically divorced from merit. They are ready for me to found a charter school for the academically advanced kids in our town.

  11. Ragnar says:

    Whoops, I see charter schools aren’t allowed to test applicants. Smart kids not allowed to escape bad teachers.

  12. The Great Pumpkin says:

    10- of course your kids are told that they fall under the academically advanced. Would not expect anything less.

  13. Ragnar says:

    Pumpkin. Perish in your own void.

  14. grim says:

    10 – Better than teaching your kids to disrespect authority, that it’s ok to destroy the property of others, and kill cops … I guess.

  15. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You want the best teachers, but want to pay them 50,000. 50,000 income is poor for nj standards. So what genius is going to sign up for that gig after paying for college? With your type, no teacher would ever be good enough for your kid. You think everyone is an idiot in this world beside yourself. Now you are passing on this ignorant mindset to your child and their friends. Wow! Your kids might learn something for now on, now that they have been brainwashed that their teacher is an idiot and that they are now smarter than the teacher. You are ruining their lives and will blame the old teacher for it.

    Ragnar says:
    December 21, 2014 at 10:05 am
    Pumpkin. Perish in your own void.

  16. Essex says:

    New Jersey where haves and have nots have rubbed elbows for decades.

  17. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I though ghetto kids don’t learn anything from parents. Thought they learn from the street.

    grim says:
    December 21, 2014 at 10:10 am
    10 – Better than teaching your kids to disrespect authority, that it’s ok to destroy the property of others, and kill cops … I guess.

  18. The Great Pumpkin says:

    So true.

    Essex says:
    December 21, 2014 at 10:11 am
    New Jersey where haves and have nots have rubbed elbows for decades.

  19. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Why don’t you become a teacher? Serious question. If you are so smart and can bring so much to the table, why don’t you take it up?

    Ragnar says:
    December 21, 2014 at 10:04 am
    Whoops, I see charter schools aren’t allowed to test applicants. Smart kids not allowed to escape bad teachers.

  20. Grim says:

    The divide will grow much worse before it gets any better, the main driver is global, and not local.

  21. Liquor Luge says:

    The goal of TPTB is to have the ignorant teaching the ignorant. It is also part of their goal to smokescreen the dumb-down of the population by fomenting a bogus political argument that pits parents against teachers.

    Folks, BOTH parties want and NEED tens of millions of malleable idiots in order to continue their consolidation of control over everything and their looting of the public treasure. These tens of millions of idiots are the ones who vote for DiBlasio, Emanuel, McConnell, Graham, Cruz and the scores of human vermin who are bound and determined to drive this country to complete ruin.

  22. Liquor Luge says:

    I mean, really, can you imagine an educated, thinking person being able to pull the lever for Maxine Waters or Pelosi? In a district of educated, thinking voters, these ginches couldn’t even become serious candiates.

    The same applies to alleged “conservative stalwarts” like the thug, Peter King.

  23. Liquor Luge says:

    We shouldn’t be killing cops, we should be killing politicians.

  24. grim says:

    23 – For every one of us, two of them. Now that’s a twitter rant I can get behind.

  25. Happy Renter says:

    Just heard the news of the two NYPD officers assassinated yesterday (and it seems reports are coming in of another officer in Florida being killed).

    Gee, ya think maybe the 6 months of basically non-stop, biased, propagandist, racist-white-cop-executes-gentle-giant-black-boy manufactured media outrage had anything to do with inciting the thugs to start shooting cops out of nowhere?

    You’re wrong if you think there is no difference between the parties. They are all idiots and psychopaths, but one is a party of thieves and thug-agitators who want to disarm me and every other citizen out there. The other is just a party of thieves.

    Let’s just get it over with already.

  26. Fabius Maximus says:

    Clot

    “Gluteus, hitting new heights in douchery.”

    That’s rich coming from you, considering your actions and the names you have called people in here over the years.

  27. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Have to agree. America was able to provide so much at the expense of other nations. Now that other nations are increasing their millionaire class, capitalism says this support has to come from somewhere and guess where it’s coming from? The middle class of industrialized nations. Middle class is dying for this simple reason. Can’t have a huge middle class if the wealthy class is to grow, and grow it has. China alone, has created how many new millionaires and billionaires. That money to support these new millionaires has to come from somewhere and that unfortunately is from the middle class of industrialized nations. Bye bye middle class, unless things start to change.

    Grim says:
    December 21, 2014 at 10:32 am
    The divide will grow much worse before it gets any better, the main driver is global, and not local.

  28. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Right to the point. Sad, but true.

    Happy Renter says:
    December 21, 2014 at 11:22 am
    Just heard the news of the two NYPD officers assassinated yesterday (and it seems reports are coming in of another officer in Florida being killed).

    Gee, ya think maybe the 6 months of basically non-stop, biased, propagandist, racist-white-cop-executes-gentle-giant-black-boy manufactured media outrage had anything to do with inciting the thugs to start shooting cops out of nowhere?

    You’re wrong if you think there is no difference between the parties. They are all idiots and psychopaths, but one is a party of thieves and thug-agitators who want to disarm me and every other citizen out there. The other is just a party of thieves.

    Let’s just get it over with already.

  29. Fabius Maximus says:

    #11 Rags

    Katie doesn’t have allergy’s but she went through all the food truck testing and lotteries but doesn’t get a slot anywhere. She has a voucher but can’t use it.

    The fact that you didn’t know that Charter schools use a lottery, shows how qualified you are to comment on it.

    I posted this a few days back about Camden.

    “in the city, which has 16,000 schoolchildren, including 4,000 in charter schools.”

    25% of the kids in Charter schools and nothing to show for it.

    Are you starting to see it yet. Charter schools don’t work.

  30. Fabius Maximus says:

    Grim,

    Do you want to do Chi a favor and delete post 24 from yesterday, before he commits total career suic1de.

  31. The Great Pumpkin says:

    It’s sad. Best way to describe it.

    Liquor Luge says:
    December 21, 2014 at 10:56 am
    The goal of TPTB is to have the ignorant teaching the ignorant. It is also part of their goal to smokescreen the dumb-down of the population by fomenting a bogus political argument that pits parents against teachers.

    Folks, BOTH parties want and NEED tens of millions of malleable idiots in order to continue their consolidation of control over everything and their looting of the public treasure. These tens of millions of idiots are the ones who vote for DiBlasio, Emanuel, McConnell, Graham, Cruz and the scores of human vermin who are bound and determined to drive this country to complete ruin.

  32. Fabius Maximus says:

    I went to the Devils with Mrs Fab on Friday night. As I am staring at the banners on the ceiling I commented her that the last game I took her too, Neidermeyer, Danako and Stevens were on the floor.

  33. Ragnar says:

    Privatization, not charter schools, is the ultimate solution. I’d be willing to pay the taxes required for vouchers as part of the transition.

  34. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You will get the same results if education is privatized. You will have rich kids doing well and poor student not doing so well. You think an issue of public vs private can fix this? When is the last time you stepped foot in the ghetto? Go take a look, and you will see its not the teachers or schools fault. If it is the school’s fault, who is to blame for letting an area in our society turn into a ghetto? A law less area that is unlike any other part of society. Try riding a dirt bike in the street of your town and see what happens or sell drugs openly on your street corner. Now you are going to blame the teachers and schools for the kids failing school that are growing up in an area of our society where you can ride dirt bikes in the street, sell drugs in the open, and pretty much do whatever you want to do. The only law is the law of the streets aka gang laws. How can you blame teachers and schools for not being able to get great results from kids growing up in this type of environment. You have no idea what kind of environment it takes to raise kids to be successful in school. Blaming teachers abd schools is just a political cop out. It takes the blame off politicians and instead puts it on schools and teachers, probably the only people trying to help those kids in that neighborhood and you are blaming them for the problems of society. Read this and it read it well, so that you understand how wrong you are in your blame game.

    Ragnar says:
    December 21, 2014 at 12:09 pm
    Privatization, not charter schools, is the ultimate solution. I’d be willing to pay the taxes required for vouchers as part of the transition.

  35. Happy Renter says:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/nyregion/a-divided-city-mourns-the-deaths-of-two-officers.html?

    “two New York City police officers were fatally shot at point-blank range while sitting in their patrol car in Brooklyn, targeted by a gunman”

    You can bet your @ss that if the situation was reversed, we’d be hearing non-stop for the next 6 months about the race of those involved . . . about how the “white Asian” Officer Wenjian Liu and the “white Hispanic” Officer “Rafael Ramos” had executed the black (father of __ / son of ___) Ismaaiyl Brinsley . . .

    Because when a white person (or anyone who can be shoehorned into a made up racial category that sounds white, e.g. white hispanic Zimmerman) shoots a black person, it is necessary to state the race of those involved. Every. Single. Time. And to never mention it without implying or outright saying that race was a motivating factor.

    Think it was a coincidence that ghetto-banger Ismaaiyl didn’t shoot a black cop?

  36. Fast Eddie says:

    Pumpkin Head,

    I’m sorry that you will never understand this.

    You think the wealthy are the ones that purchased a house during the peak for under a million? And you’re telling me that I don’t understand? Go play video games with your friends, sweetie.

  37. chicagofinance says:

    Just heard the news of the two NYPD officers ALLEGEDLY assassinated yesterday.

    Happy Renter says:
    December 21, 2014 at 11:22 am
    Just heard the news of the two NYPD officers assassinated yesterday (and it seems reports are coming in of another officer in Florida being killed).

    Gee, ya think maybe the 6 months of basically non-stop, biased, propagandist, racist-white-cop-executes-gentle-giant-black-boy manufactured media outrage had anything to do with inciting the thugs to start shooting cops out of nowhere?

    You’re wrong if you think there is no difference between the parties. They are all idiots and psychopaths, but one is a party of thieves and thug-agitators who want to disarm me and every other citizen out there. The other is just a party of thieves.

    Let’s just get it over with already.

  38. chicagofinance says:

    SHOCKING!

    A fourth suspect wanted for allegedly assaulting police officers during last weekend’s Millions March NYC protests surrendered to cops Saturday afternoon, just hours after a fellow cop-basher did the same, authorities said.

    Cindy Gorn, 29 — “Female Suspect No. 2” — is a grad student at Columbia University who walked into Manhattan’s Fifth Precinct station house with her lawyer at 12:30 p.m., sources said.

  39. Liquor Luge says:

    Columbia will prolly up that bitch’s financial aid.

    I’d just be happy having her await trial at Rikers.

  40. Liquor Luge says:

    Gluteus (32)-

    This, from a guy whose side helped Liverpool find its mojo again today. Zero toughness, zero mental fortitude…just like their tea-sandwich-eating fans.

    Good move by Wanker pulling your side’s only consistent scorer and the only one in the roster with any kind of toughness. He’s the worst manager in the PL.

  41. Essex says:

    For all of the talk of education, I think many will agree that motivation and opportunity are completely separate. Or are they? If I argue that the ‘system’ still has a place for you if you work hard and contribute, would you say yes or no? I think that once those in the majority, the working class, the at-risk student, etc. Once they stop believing the stories that we attach to success and education, then you might have yourself a real problem.

  42. McDullard says:

    #Happy 25

    Reducing guns overall is not a bad idea. Take away guns from the street and tanks from the police, but the likes of Guilliani are already sensing an opening here. He is already behaving as if it’s the second coming of 9/11 – and he will probably throw in his hat into the ’16 race. And the posts of people on “anti-white” stuff is pitiful — a chinese cop and hispanic cop were killed by a black guy that just killed his girlfriend and then killed himself, and they want to have a crusade?

  43. McDullard says:

    Happy… The cop-killer killed himself. All the cops that killed even kids got paid vacations and news appearances. Do you not see a difference?

  44. Anon E. Moose says:

    Fabu [29];

    Anyone capable of producing teachable offspring has already left Camden. That failure isn’t about charter schools; after all the 75% union-run schools aren’t doing any better.

  45. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Your statement says it all. You are assuming wealthy individuals didn’t buy properties for under a million during the peak. I can’t help you, no one can.

    Fast Eddie says:
    December 21, 2014 at 12:58 pm
    Pumpkin Head,

    I’m sorry that you will never understand this.

    You think the wealthy are the ones that purchased a house during the peak for under a million? And you’re telling me that I don’t understand? Go play video games with your friends, sweetie.

  46. The Great Pumpkin says:

    46- I broke down the issues at play in our society in post 5 that explain why a place like Ridgewood is not going down anytime soon. The wealthy are not doing worst off than 20 years ago. Quite the opposite, they are doing better than ever, which has resulted in extreme income inequality due to the legions of new poor created with the increase in the top of the pyramid. As the pyramid gets higher, the base must expand. Yes sweetie, it seems this concept is over your head. Otherwise, you would not be waiting for things to get bad in places like Ridgewood. It’s not going to happen.

  47. Liquor Luge says:

    punkinhead (47)-

    No one will be spared.

  48. Essex says:

    45. Those areas are examples of what occurs once everything simply degrades. If Clot is correct we should see that extend to the entire Country by the year 2044. Or so.

  49. chicagofinance says:

    Top ten 2014 NJ RE Report quotes……bottom of top ten, but definitely slides in there……

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    December 21, 2014 at 5:57 pm
    I can’t help you, no one can.

  50. Anon E. Moose says:

    Pumpkinhead [35];

    You will get the same results if education is privatized. You will have rich kids doing well and poor student not doing so well.

    If you acknowledge this (inevitable) reality, then why hell do you still cheerlead picking my pocket to enrich the bloated apparatus? Was Grandma on the school district payroll?

  51. All Hype says:

    Of course, one of the rioters on the bridge was a Rutgers grad student:

    http://nypost.com/2014/12/20/fourth-suspect-surrenders-in-cop-bashing/

  52. Anon E. Moose says:

    Hype [53];

    [Female Suspect #1] is “legally married to and physically separated” from [Male Suspect No. 4], the lawyer said.

    They obviously didn’t argue about politics. Maybe either or both of them had a violent streak? Regardless, what better way to reconcile their relationship than a winter march screaming “What do we want? Dead Cops! When do we want it? Now!”

  53. All Hype says:

    Moose [55]:

    I hope Garcia and Gorn learn how to wash clothes in the sink and braid hair cause that’s what they are going to be doing for their new “girlfriends” in prison.

    I doubt they have a separate Marxist political prisoner pod in prison.

  54. Libturd at home says:

    A two cop assassination occurred earlier this year in Vegas. It’s nothing new CHI, but strange how the local case gets so much press when the Vegas case went relatively unknown.

  55. McDullard says:

    #56, also considering that the protests were more peaceful than Freguson (despite the case against NYPD being stronger here), there has been much more pushback.

  56. Liquor Luge says:

    Smoke ’em if you got ’em, folks. It’s about to get jiggy up in here.

  57. Fast Eddie says:

    Pumpkin Head,

    You should become a house agent. You certainly have the talking points down.

    “Buy now, your salary is only going to go up. And prices never go down here. Besides, you can always refinance. And while you’re at it, why not take out a HELOC on your current house to buy another; just don’t tell the bank what you’re really going to use it for. Wink! Wink!”

  58. Ben says:

    You will get the same results if education is privatized. You will have rich kids doing well and poor student not doing so well. You think an issue of public vs private can fix this?

    Providing vouchers is not privatization. It’s a mechanism that allows you to take your tax dollars and have them spent elsewhere in a better place. There are plenty of kids in the inner city that are willing to work hard and do well in school.

    People like you and the NJEA (which I am a member of), cling to the idea that allowing children the option of going elsewhere is unfathomable. The local union definitely doesn’t want it. It means less jobs and dues for them. The train towns definitely wouldn’t want it. They would cringe at the idea of a handful of inner city kids getting off the train at Westfield to go learn in their town.

  59. Happy Renter says:

    [44] “The cop-killer killed himself. All the cops that killed even kids got paid vacations and news appearances. Do you not see a difference?”

    Yeah — Ismaaiyl offed himself like every raghead suicide bomber. What’s that got to do with the Racial-Industrial Complex fomenting racial violence?

    [43] “Reducing guns overall is not a bad idea.”

    Pity about that whole Second Amendment thing.

  60. McDullard says:

    Happy #61…

    Ok, a black criminal killed a black woman, a Chinese cop, and a hispanic cop, in NYC. A hispanic fugitive killed a white cop in Florida while avoiding arrest.

    So, you see some major race war here and no guns issue at all? The NRA is flooding the country with guns; if some other country were to do the same to US, we’d consider that as a proxy war (like Afghanistan getting flooded with rifles and stinger missiles during 80’s). What is the harm in reducing the easy availability of military grade fire power in the civilian setting?

    You are mistaking confusing congressional-military-industry complex with racial-industrial complex. The poor don’t have much of an industry backing; and the rich are more than fine to keep the war going as long as they get their policies passed through; and the NRA is making money and flooding the country with guns.

  61. joyce says:

    McDullard,

    “What is the harm in reducing the easy availability of military grade fire power in the civilian setting?”

    2010 report out of california regarding the types of guns used in crimes… over 90% were handguns
    http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/publications/Firearms_Report_10.pdf

  62. Happy Renter says:

    “Ok, a black criminal killed a black woman, a Chinese cop, and a hispanic cop, in NYC.”

    Are you sure he wasn’t a “white hispanic” with a “white Asian” partner? Cause lord knows that’s how they would be described had they shot a gentle black giant.

    “So, you see some major race war here and no guns issue at all?”

    We are far from a race war. But we do have a thug issue.

    “The NRA is flooding the country with guns”

    Newsflash: the NRA is not going out and arming people. Citizens–including me–are choosing to exercise their right to arm themselves. The NRA isn’t buying my firearms and ammunition — they’re simply defending the right of people to do so, if they choose. You’re free to choose not to arm yourself, and neither me nor the NRA will get in your way.

  63. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I’m terrified to see the impact of these schools losing their ability to stay open. I understand the effect of pushing the poor to their limit. It’s not fun, and scares the hell out of me.

    Anon E. Moose says:
    December 21, 2014 at 6:51 pm
    Pumpkinhead [35];

    You will get the same results if education is privatized. You will have rich kids doing well and poor student not doing so well.

    If you acknowledge this (inevitable) reality, then why hell do you still cheerlead picking my pocket to enrich the bloated apparatus? Was Grandma on the school district payroll?

  64. Libturd at home says:

    How ’bout this? Get rid of the NJEA but maintain public schools.

  65. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You nailed it. Last thing I need is to be paying high property taxes and some kid from Paterson ends up in my daughter’s school because of vouchers. I’m sorry, I don’t want my daughter to have anything to do with Paterson. I want her to be afraid of that place. I’m just being honest.

    “People like you and the NJEA (which I am a member of), cling to the idea that allowing children the option of going elsewhere is unfathomable. The local union definitely doesn’t want it. It means less jobs and dues for them. The train towns definitely wouldn’t want it. They would cringe at the idea of a handful of inner city kids getting off the train at Westfield to go learn in their town.”

  66. The Great Pumpkin says:

    67- that program would destroy northern nj real estate values. Schools would go to hell with the inflow of ghetto kids to the classroom. They will take all the teachers attention and hold the class back. Hell no. Let’s keep it the way it is.

  67. joyce says:

    Another enjoyable thing about this blog is seeing some people respond in agreement to a post that was in opposition to them.

  68. Ragnar says:

    I have a dream that some day excellent school teachers will make much more money than mediocre ones, and bad teachers will routinely be fired. Like real life in the marketplace for other skilled white collar professionals.

  69. Comrade Nom Deplume, armed and dangerous says:

    Can’t reply to every post so here goes my $0.02

    Ragnar is right and I plan on deprogramming my kids when they are old enough.

    Fabian and Luge, well, I’ll let them slug it out. I was happy to see the scousers deny points to the gooners.

    Michael, clot is right and you are right. But you are the softer target. As the man lacing up his sneakers said “I don’t have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you.”

    Sas, I luv ya man but you really walked into Joyce’s hammer. Also, very few americans possess military grade weapons. We possess weapons that LOOK like military grade but perform no differently than those that don’t. True mil spec weapons are not only not available to the general public, what is available is unaffordable. My Bushmaster, which is illegal in NJ, shoots the same ammo at the same speed as my Ruger Mini 14, which is legal in NJ. The ONLY difference is that the Bushmaster is a hell of a lot scarier looking than the Mini 14.

  70. Comrade Nom Deplume, armed and dangerous says:

    [67] punkin,

    “They would cringe at the idea of a handful of inner city kids getting off the train at Westfield to go learn in their town.”

    The brig doesn’t let them come in by train. They are bused in. Really. The brig participates in something similar to the Massachusetts “Metco” program, where underprivileged kids from the inner cities are bused to tony suburbs for school.

    Naturally, they all have mad athletic skills.

  71. McDullard says:

    #71 Nom, Joyce…

    Yeah, I did walk into the hammer (and I won’t pitch for outlawing hammers) — and looks like I don’t know much about guns. Looking back, the power of the guns wasn’t even the problem in the four major events (Brown, Rice, Garner, and the two NYPD officers).

    Take 2: if there is a way to train/educate the cops to deal with potential situations where someone may or may not have a gun (and may or may not intend to use it), wouldn’t things improve a bit? It wouldn’t have in the case of Garner and Brown, but would have saved Rice… No?

    Here is the a news item from today on an incident at the border with Canada: A crazy guy pointed a gun towards Canadian police, they tried to talk to him, but he got bored and went to the bridge crossing. This guy then points the gun towards US guards and they shoot him *without* killing him (he is released from hospital and taken into custody).

    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/12/21/canadian_shot_by_us_border_guards_at_ambassador_bridge_crossing.html

    U.S. Customs and Border Protection says in a statement the man stopped his car before the U.S. inspection booth around 3 a.m. Sunday and started walking towards border officers while waving a gun.

    It says the officers ordered him to drop the weapon but that he then pointed it in the officers’ direction, prompting them to open fire.

    The agency says the man, who it hasn’t been identified, was treated and released from hospital before being taken into custody.

    Windsor police says the man was seen waving a handgun in the parking lot of a local McDonald’s some 20 minutes before the incident at the border crossing. They say that when police arrived he was ordered to drop the weapon but refused, and then pointed the gun at officers, who were not aware of what was happening as they were busy dealing with passersby behind the man.

    According to the police statement, the man then told officers, “Why haven’t you shot me yet?” and that officers tried to talk him down.

    Police say the man then got back into his SUV and drove off before officers could get back to their cruisers.

    ——-

    Wouldn’t it be better if the local police have some extra training to handle similar situations better? In the case of Tamir Rice, since they knew that there was a kid with a gun or a toy gun, they could have gone in with bullet-proof stuff, see if he is holding the weapon, talk to him from behind the car door, and then scold/fine the kid and parents for causing a potential problem — instead of drive there and simply shoot?

  72. joyce says:

    McDullard,

    Yes

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