November home sales slide, credit and inventory to blame

From the WSJ:

U.S. Existing-Home Sales Tumble in November

Sales of previously owned homes tumbled to a six-month low in November, a sign the housing market continues to underperform despite a burst of stronger economic growth.

Existing-home sales declined 6.1% in November from a month earlier to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 4.93 million, the National Association of Realtors said Monday. That was the lowest level since May.

November’s sales were 2.1% higher than a year ago and followed a particularly strong October, when sales reached their highest level of the year.

The outlook remains cloudy because borrowing costs are expected to rise next year if the Federal Reserve follows through on plans to raise short-term interest rates, which have been near zero since the recession.

The average rate on a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage fell to 3.80% last week, according to Freddie Mac, down from 4.53% at the start of the year. Meantime, the U.S. is on track to post its strongest year of job growth since 1999.

“The weaker existing-home sales report suggests that the housing market remains on a somewhat rocky footing as data remains quite choppy,” said Gennadiy Goldberg, economist at TD Securities. “We suspect that the recent decline in mortgage rates could help provide a near-term boost to activity over the coming months, but believe that further housing market improvement is likely to remain quite gradual, remaining a source of concern for the Fed.”

Monday’s report showed that in November, existing-home sales fell in all four major regions—the Northeast, South, West, and Midwest.

Inventories tightened. The number of homes for sale fell 6.7% in November from a month earlier to 2.09 million. At the current sales pace, it would take 5.1 months to exhaust the supply of homes on the market.

The median sale price for existing homes continued to rise, hitting $205,300, or 5.0% above the year-ago level.

Details suggest a slight shift in the mix of buyers. So-called distressed sales, reflecting short sales and homes in foreclosure, were flat, suggesting fewer investors are snapping up properties. Meantime, the share of sales going to first-time buyers ticked up to 31% last month, the highest since October 2012 but still historically low.

This entry was posted in Economics, Employment, Housing Recovery, National Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

100 Responses to November home sales slide, credit and inventory to blame

  1. grim says:

    From HousingWire:

    Capital Economics: Don’t panic about November home sales

    November’s existing home sales tanked, but at least one analyst says there’s no reason to panic.

    Existing home sales in November tumbled 6.1%, the biggest drop since July 2010, down to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 4.93 million. This was well below analyst expectations of a 1.1% decline, ending five months of 5 million SAAR sales.

    “Ignore the usual suspects who will claim that the unexpected 6.1% m/m decline in existing home sales in November is a sign that the housing or wider economic recovery just fell off the rails,” says Paul Ashworth, chief U.S. economist for Capital Economics. “They didn’t. Indeed, with employment growth accelerating and mortgage rates falling to 18-month lows, we expect existing home sales to rebound soon. For 2015 as a whole, we expect sales to hit 5,200,000.”

    Noting several positives in November’s performance – 300,000 jobs created, consumer confidence at multi-year highs, strong retail sales – he says that the drop in existing home sales to 4,930,000 annualized last month, from what was a 14-month high of 5,250,000 in October, is nothing to be alarmed about.

    Meanwhile, Sterne Agee Chief Economist Lindsey Piegza is not so nonplussed.

    “Last week the Fed maintained its assessment of ‘moderate’ to describe the economic expansion. This morning’s disappointing home sales figures are part of the reason for that more lackluster assessment of the US economy,” she says. “While the Fed is acutely aware of improvements in some sectors of the economy, housing is one that remains slow.’’

  2. grim says:

    Lil Kim got his internet back? Too bad.

  3. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yup….if you are working, you are middle class.

    Juice Box says:
    December 23, 2014 at 1:12 am
    Rags – you are still middle class until you have at least 8 figures in an account. Even then you are a piker. Get used to it, we are all dying middle class if we are lucky.

  4. Grim says:

    Heard that Minecraft guy outbid Jay Z and Beyoncé to buy that $70m mansion.

    Brings a tear to the eye of every nerd.

  5. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You are prob right, but most industrialized nations are heading towards negative growth rate. Will that continue, who knows?

    Agree….energy is the major problem. I really don’t know if there is an answer out there, but I’ll pray for fusion power or some disruptive technology.

    Juice Box says:
    December 23, 2014 at 1:08 am
    Pumpkin people will continue to screw. We are nowhere near peak population or steady state anything. If you want to see the future go visit the third world they are already living it. Get used to riding the bus.

    Pray for fusion power and some kind of battery system to replace the energy density of hydrocarbons. All other talk is just a waste of time.

  6. Grim says:

    You know how many more Jamba Juice and Shake Shack stores are yet to be built? We have a long way to go. I’m sure a hundred years ago, an economy that wasn’t based on coal was inconceivable, and 200 years ago it was inconceivable that whale oil wouldn’t be a major part of the world economy in the future.

    Still, I find something appealing in the argument that measured economic growth would produce a more sustainable global economy than one that values growth above all else.

  7. Toxic Crayons says:

    http://shoebat.com/2014/12/20/man-just-murdered-two-police-officers-brooklyn-muslim-jihadist-prepared-muslim-violence-america/

    The Man Who Just Murdered Two Police Officers In Brooklyn Is A Muslim Jihadist (BE PREPARED FOR MORE MUSLIM VIOLENCE IN AMERICA)

    By Shoebat Foundation on December 20, 2014 in Featured, General

    SHOEBAT EXCLUSIVE
    By Walid Shoebat

    So Ismaaiyl Brinsley the killer of the two cops in Brooklyn, NY, has two Muslim names “Ismaaiyl” and a middle name “Abdullah” (see mugshot bellow) which means “servant of Allah,” is a fan of sheikh Yusuf Estes, who is not only neck deep in the Muslim Da’wa movement (the call to convert westerners to Islam) but Estes meets with both ISIS and Hamas financiers, and Brinsley loved the Koran, specifically Surah 8 on his own Facebook page, which calls for arming for preparation for Jihad war; it says all on what we need for motive as to why Brinsley shot the two officers. All that, accompanied with Hamas supporters, who were proven to have been behind the riots in Ferguson is a complete recipe for killing cops as we present the evidence in this article.

    snip

    Then we have the enablers who are welcomed by New York Mayor Bill de Blasio; the Muslim Da’wa movement. Brinsley’s Facebook friend is Yusuf Estes who leads Da’wa (call to Islam) in America. “THE ISLAMIC Movement’s Da’wa system and its principles are completely identical to that of Hamas, and derive from the Muslim Brotherhood,” Reuven Paz, director of the Project for the Research of Islamist Movements at the Gloria Center, based at the IDC, said. Anyone can google Yusuf Estes in Arabic “يوسف إستس” and spend months looking at his activities and connections to top Islamists. Its the Da’wa ring working with liberals who cozy up to them like the Mayor.

  8. 1987 Condo says:

    3rd Qtr GDP Revised to 5.0%

  9. chicagofinance says:

    Emerging from his hidey-hole to give a midday speech yesterday, Mayor de Blasio bore a suitably funereal demeanor. He called for all New Yorkers to embrace and respect the families of the slain police officers, and urged a moratorium on protests until after the officers were laid to rest.
    His prepared remarks were pedestrian, but appropriate in tone and substance, and well received by a friendly audience. Facing his first real crisis in City Hall, he seemed to be doing his best to hold his own emotions in check and hold the city together.
    Then he blew it. Late in the day, the mask of conciliation came off. Actually, he ripped it off with a snarl and gave vent to his smoldering anger at what he regards as the real culprit.
    No, it’s not the protesters who beat and spit on cops and accuse them of being the KKK. It definitely isn’t the mobs chanting for dead cops. Nor is it those who shut down highways, bridges and invade stores to disrupt the holiday season.
    The real problem, as de Blasio sees it, is the media. I kid you not — he actually shot the messenger.
    He accused the reporters assembled in front of him of stoking outrage by focusing on “the few” protesters doing “immoral” things.
    “They are wrong,” he said, his voice rising.
    “But are you going to keep dividing us? What you manage to do is pull up the few who do not represent the majority.”
    He called it “unfair,” and insisted most protesters were peaceful but “you guys enable” the troublemakers.
    He went on in the vein for several minutes, becoming more forceful and shutting down a persistent reporter by addressing him as “my friend,” a phrase he paired with a death stare.
    Rather than convince, the tirade revealed. Like looking at an X-ray, we saw the real de Blasio. It wasn’t a pretty sight.
    His heart remains with the protesters, and in spirit, he is still with them, denouncing the very police force that works for him. His passion for the anti-cop agenda is so deep that he wasn’t capable of following his own advice to take a break from divisiveness for even a single day.
    The mayor’s intemperate performance was unforgettable, and unforgivable. Any hope that he would own up to the fact that he contributed to the atmosphere that led to Saturday’s bloody explosion was dashed.
    Most important, it is unlikely that he will be able to lead the city forward or even back to where it was when he took office. He clearly continues to believe that there is something wrong with the NYPD, something fundamental that he is determined to fix, whatever the cost in civic harmony.
    Polls show most New Yorkers don’t agree with him.
    Of course, there is room for police improvement and, once he was elected, most would have backed a moderate, deliberate program of reform.
    Instead, he launched a relentless assault on the greatest force for good Gotham has ever seen, and helped to unleash a fever that leaves no room for nuance or debate.
    The result is an unsettling polarization that makes everything worse for everybody.
    For de Blasio to see that stark division, and insist the media is to blame, is tantamount to painting himself as a victim.
    He’s free to believe that, but he’s in the wrong business, or at least the wrong position.
    As a councilman or public advocate, he could be the radical pol who marched for the cameras, got arrested and made wild charges against “the man.”
    Nobody cared or noticed.
    Better yet, he could have skipped government and become a go-fer for Al Sharpton, maybe rising to deputy organizer.
    It’s easy to imagine him wielding a bullhorn and a clipboard and leading chants of, “No justice, no peace.”
    Unfortunately, de Blasio opted for another path, thinking that as “the man,” he would be in a position to remake New York.
    He could stir marginalized blacks, anarchists and rootless young people by invoking Jim Crow segregation and accusing NYPD bosses of being modern-day Bull Connors.
    None of it is true, but facts don’t matter to him.
    He’s a believer. Like most radicals with no real-world experience, he assumes the way to fix things is to first smash them into pieces. That’s what he’s doing to New York.

  10. Libturd in the City says:

    If I were the mayor of NY, I would put a ban on practicing all religion. Unless of course, one wanted to worship lesb1anism, which he obviously does. I didn’t think a NYC mayor could possibly be worse than Dinkins. So far, this guy takes the prize. Still looking forward to those romantic electric buggies in Central Park.

  11. Libturd in the City says:

    Love this photobomb…
    http://tinyurl.com/deblazio-for-pres

  12. Libturd in the City says:

    Markets going through the roof today.

  13. anon (the good one) says:

    @BBCBreaking:

    US economy grows by 5% between July & Sept,
    fastest quarterly growth since summer of 2003, Commerce Department says

  14. A Home Buyer says:

    7 – Toxic

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11310330/Up-to-300-extra-soldiers-deployed-in-France-after-attacks.html

    However the official line is this was just 3 separate attacks from mentally ill individuals who may practice religion and may have connections to militants and may have committed similar attacks almost right after one another.

    I wonder if “Mentally Ill” will be the new catch phrase for 2015? Every single act is now committed by isolated, “mentally ill” individuals.

  15. The Great Pumpkin says:

    5%!!!!!!!!!!! People expecting this bull run to end since 2013 are lost….it’s only getting started.

  16. Libturd in the City says:

    Anyone who kills in the name of god is truly “mentally ill.” So thinking about all of the religion-driven genocides of the past 2,000 or so years, what does one think of the human condition? Enjoy your sabbath everyone.

  17. anon (the good one) says:

    @KThomasDC:

    LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) – Louisville council raises minimum wage to $9 per hour, becoming 1st Kentucky city to do so.

  18. Comrade Nom Deplume, at PHL says:

    [14] buyer

    “I wonder if “Mentally Ill” will be the new catch phrase for 2015? Every single act is now committed by isolated, “mentally ill” individuals”

    Only those committed by leftists or Third Worlders. Violence from anyone on the tight is depraved and criminal.

    I love how officialdom and most of the media said the motive for the NYPD assassination was unknowable. The guy posted it on Instagram fer chissakes.

  19. Libturd in the City says:

    Libturd in Union says:
    October 21, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    “Ebola scare dying out, oil prices settling, Obama fumbling, I just changed what little bit of my 401K elections that were risk off to risk on.”

    S&P 500 was at 1940 and and the Dow was at 16,600 when I made the call. Now at 2078 and 17,900 respectively. That’s an 8% gain in just the indexes, in exactly two month’s time. Will be taking a quarter off the table just ahead of earnings season. Always gotta have some powder dry for the next comeback opportunity. BTW, I’m just a janitor in real life. For real advice, follow the tweets of Quvenzhané.

  20. Essex says:

    11. Dats hiz ghey face.

  21. anon (the good one) says:

    @business:

    BREAKING:

    U.S. home prices rose 0.6% in October, beating expectations

  22. Juice Box says:

    Cork soker face?

  23. Toxic Crayons says:

    Some guy kills in the name of Islam therefore all religion sucks? The anti-religious snark is strong in you Skywalker.

    Libturd in the City says:
    December 23, 2014 at 9:19 am
    Anyone who kills in the name of god is truly “mentally ill.” So thinking about all of the religion-driven genocides of the past 2,000 or so years, what does one think of the human condition? Enjoy your sabbath everyone

  24. Libturd in the City says:

    “Some guy kills in the name of Islam therefore all religion sucks? The anti-religious snark is strong in you Skywalker.”

    Religion is fine, as long as it does not advocate expansion nor intrude in the lives of those who choose not to believe it. Personally (and I know I am in the minority here), I find those who find great comfort in god tend to be weak in the mind. A faith system is perfectly fine and I think it is only natural to ponder one’s existence. But I feel blindly following organized religion is akin to thinking the Dems are better than the Repubs or vice versa. Like I said, I know I’m in the minority here. One really has to open their minds and fully appreciate other cultures to understand my line of thinking. And of course, I could be wrong and doomed to immortality in Hell. But what god would really be that spiteful and create life at the same time. Perhaps the god of Anon (Quvenzhané)?

  25. Libturd in the City says:

    My view on religion is funny. I really have a lot of respect for those who practice their religion devoutly. I am simply amazed by the dedication of Monks and Buddhists. Even by Imams and Cardinals. The religious devotion in South India was especially impressive. It yielded amazingly peace-loving and tolerant people. Except of course, caste issues and intolerance of homosexuality. So really, my issue with religion is when it develops a superiority complex.

  26. A Home Buyer says:

    23 –

    Food for thought. It is estimated that between 1-6% of all Muslims are Radicalized.

    Assuming we go with 1%, being truly radicalized which is 1 out of every 100, that would mean that…

    World Population: 7,000,000,000 per the world fact book
    Muslim Population: 22% of World Population (or 1,500,000,000 people)
    1% of that?: Approximately 15,000,000

    Population of New Jersey?: 9,000,000
    Population of the United States?: 314,000,000

    Feel free to adjust the percentage of Radicalized Individuals, but 1% yields more people bent on the destruction of the Western World then the population of our State.
    If you move that up to 6% on the higher end of the spectrum (not the bat-shat crazy number of 85% that Republicans throw around), you get around 100,000,000.
    1/3 of the United States Population.

  27. Libturd in the City says:

    US Nukes – 7,315.
    Pakistani Nukes – 120.
    ISIS Nukes – 0

    We were crazy enough to drop two of them on the innocent citizens of Japan. It will be a much easier decision to drop a couple on the fundamentalist retards in the Middle East.

  28. Anon E. Moose says:

    Lib [10];

    DiBlasio:Dinkins::Obama:Carter

    Making the irredeemable look good by comparison.

  29. Walking Bye says:

    @27 I believe auctions will continue to gain traction and sell the low/mid end in the future cutting out the agents. I’ve used it to buy and worked out well for me. As an aside I did not meet the banks min reserve prcice but was the only bidder. Hence we settled on a price quickly after they realized no one else was interested.

  30. Fast Eddie says:

    Pumpkin Head,

    Wealthy is not being underwater on a $750,000 purchase made in 2006. There’s no inventory because they can’t sell. Why? Becasue they’re not wealthy and can’t shoulder the hit. A 250K household income is not wealthy. Even a 500K income is not wealthy, especially when your net worth is a fraction of your income. Wages have been flat for over a decade. Try to draw a picture in your Charlie Brown-sized head and think logically.

    Inventories tightened. The number of homes for sale fell 6.7% in November from a month earlier to 2.09 million.

  31. Fast Eddie says:

    They listed at $749,000 two months ago and think that the current $649,000 is going to get it sold. And it’s located right in the arm pit of route 17 and route 4. These people are f.ucking crazy. Do potential buyers have any vision beyond today’s soundbites?

    http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1441175&dayssince=&countysearch=false

  32. jcer says:

    Eddie, 500k is a nice income, the problem is people with 250k in income act like they have 500k in income. A 500k income means a 1.5 million dollar house and 2 Mercedes in the garage(E class on lease)…that’s an upper income family and with earnings like that if consistent they will be wealthy. The problem is that most people fall more into that 250k range and want the Mercedes and 1.25m dollar house with 25k in taxes and all the fanciest new stuff. 250k doesn’t fund an upper middle class lifestyle in the NYC metro area, you can afford old cars and an old small house especially after the government rips you off err taxes you more because you’re “RICH”. You’re bag holders are the 250k crowd who got in over their heads and you are quite correct that they make the segment of the market that is kind of frozen and has really bad inventory. At the top in this area you have the financiers, real estate and other people who are doing obscenely well because of ZIRP, people on the upper end can afford and are purchasing crazy homes, it is the more or less average schmuck who cannot find inventory.

  33. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yes, and it’s exactly why people that are wealthy are not underwater. How many people do you think are underwater in Ridgewood? Maybe 5% of the population, if that. Also, 500,000 is wealthy in my books. Cut back and save for two or three years on that salary, buy a rental property and invest in stocks. Within 20 years, I will be worth more than 20 million if the market goes well and not working anymore.

    Fast Eddie says:
    December 23, 2014 at 11:25 am
    Pumpkin Head,

    Wealthy is not being underwater on a $750,000 purchase made in 2006. There’s no inventory because they can’t sell. Why? Becasue they’re not wealthy and can’t shoulder the hit. A 250K household income is not wealthy. Even a 500K income is not wealthy, especially when your net worth is a fraction of your income. Wages have been flat for over a decade. Try to draw a picture in your Charlie Brown-sized head and think logically.

    Inventories tightened. The number of homes for sale fell 6.7% in November from a month earlier to 2.09 million.

  34. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Amen!! lol

    Libturd in the City says:
    December 23, 2014 at 9:19 am
    Anyone who kills in the name of god is truly “mentally ill.” So thinking about all of the religion-driven genocides of the past 2,000 or so years, what does one think of the human condition? Enjoy your sabbath everyone.

  35. Fast Eddie says:

    How many people do you think are underwater in Ridgewood?

    If they have a mortgage and put 20% or less down, everyone that purchased from ~ 2003 through 2007. You are like the wannabes that jcer described in the previous post.

    $500,000 is a very nice income but wealth is net worth, not just income.

  36. Xolepa says:

    (28) Innocent victims in Japan! B.S. again, Study your history, dude. Japan was doing heavy water experiments, had a nuclear program and was just a week or two away from doing their first test when Hiroshima was hit.

  37. Libturd in the City says:

    X,

    Yeah…there was that too. Thanks for the reminder. But that doesn’t change my argument at all. As a matter of fact, I think it adds to it!

  38. jcer says:

    pumpkin your math is bad. I’ve been running the numbers for quite a while and after taxes and expenses to get to 20 million will take between 40-60 years of saving to get to 20 million and then you have to deal with inflation. See with a 500k income(family of 4, 1 income provider) by the time the government(state and federal, fica) is done you’ll be left with approximately 325k. Now lets deduct 25k in property taxes, 20k in healthcare cost, 4k in utilities, 10k for food, 40k in mortgage payments, 15k in auto costs(car payments, service, gas, and insurance), commute costs of 5k per year. that leaves discretionary income of right around 200k. Now there are discretionary costs that are pretty much mandatory to maintain your social status and thus earning power. Lets just put it this way if the hypothetical family could save 150k a year they are real cheap skates and it will take them a long time to get to that 20 million. Tell me again how in a zirp environment I can assume an annual ROR greater than 5%. Let’s just face it the average annual savings of the 500k income family is closer to 50-75k not 150k. Income !=wealth, wealth is built through owning the business, inheritance, or insanely high income. Even at 1m annual income it is hard to break the barrier into true wealth, the system is rigged against earned income to keep you out. That’s not to say you won’t be comfortable but becoming truly wealthy to the point where it’s generational, there is a high barrier to entry.

  39. Libturd in the City says:

    JCER,

    And the barrier to entry into the wealth club is consistently maintained by both parties. I plan to get wealthy by moving to where everyone else is poorer. It’s much easier that way.

  40. jcer says:

    Pumpkin, Ridgewood is a top tier town, most of the places Eddie is looking at are not in that caliber of town. I don’t expect a great number of underwater owners struggling in Saddle River, Short Hills,Essex Fells, Franklin Lakes, Mendham,Far Hills, Bernardsville,Rumson, etc. Homes under a million don’t really exist in these towns, and the types of people living in those towns are doing well. It is a tier below, the true middle class that is being squeezed and is more likely to get into trouble. Income for the high earners is flowing right now…so the bills are getting paid. In paramus or Hillsdale…dude got downsized and hit with bigger tax bill, healthcare bill, you name it….way more likely to be underwater and unable to sell at a loss.

  41. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Attack my character and not the argument. That’s fine.

    Fast Eddie says:
    December 23, 2014 at 12:02 pm
    How many people do you think are underwater in Ridgewood?

    If they have a mortgage and put 20% or less down, everyone that purchased from ~ 2003 through 2007. You are like the wannabes that jcer described in the previous post.

    $500,000 is a very nice income but wealth is net worth, not just income.

  42. joyce says:

    So every single person who perished in the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was “guilty”?

    Xolepa says:
    December 23, 2014 at 12:02 pm
    (28) Innocent victims in Japan! B.S. again, Study your history, dude. Japan was doing heavy water experiments, had a nuclear program and was just a week or two away from doing their first test when Hiroshima was hit.

  43. jcer says:

    To follow up on Ragner’s comments yesterday about earning tons of money with no connections. That is true my father started with nothing, worked like a maniac was better and smarter than everyone he went up against and managed to do very well. As you were saying the wealthy who are unable to do need someone to protect their wealth/business and for doing so they are thrown some crumbs, if you are a cheap skate like my father these crumbs(which to us mere mortals would be a BIG income) you yourself can join the club but you are at the ground floor and have little chance of leaving a legacy like that to your children and also it probably has taken you 40+ years to get there.

    Or you could go the captain cheapo route, which is more of control your cost so you can live on less and need less of a war chest to survive without working, which ultimately leads to living a richer life. You don’t need to be rich to live well, you just need enough cushion and income to provide the lifestyle you desire.

  44. Fabius Maximus says:

    #16 Lib

    “For God and Country”.

    Might want to look that one up.

  45. Fabius Maximus says:

    #38 Fast Eddie

    “How many people do you think are underwater in Ridgewood?”
    Not many. I said it for years, that Ridgewood was immune from the bust. While the overall sale price numbers might have been down a little. Throughout the downturn Ridgewood has been consistently banging out 4 to 10 sales a week.

  46. grim says:

    You guys are smoking dope today.

  47. yome says:

    Is it really a ObamaPhone? Politics and Spin always comes together

    The federal phone service subsidy for low-income Americans, officially called Lifeline, has actually enjoyed bipartisan support. It was a Reagan-era initiative that was expanded to include cell phones under President George W. Bush.
    But critics emerged in September 2012 when a YouTube clip went viral, showing an Obama supporter claiming, “Everyone in Cleveland, low minority, got Obamaphone.” It became grist for conservative radio talk shows.

    http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/23/technology/innovationnation/obama-broadband-lifeline-obamaphone/index.html?iid=HP_LN

  48. Fabius Maximus says:

    Mike Rowe is a hero. A true Champion of the workers, He has just nailed this police debate.

    Please excuse the source it was too good not to share.
    http://www.glennbeck.com/2014/12/22/mike-rowe-just-delivered-the-best-response-on-the-nation-wide-protests-over-the-deaths-of-michael-brown-eric-garner/

  49. joyce says:

    7
    Is the theory now this was killing motivated by radical islam or “retaliation” for garner or both?

  50. jcer says:

    To give an example on generational wealth, I’ll point to my wife’s family. Her great grandfather came from Scotland and built a successful business as a contractor building roads out in the Midwest. He was very successful and rolled a lot of his money into farmland, to the point were the holdings at the point of his death would be worth 80 million dollars today, the problem being that through the generations pieces have been sold and money has been spent by the older generation so now the familial wealth is only about 50 million, now he had 4 daughters, who each had 3-4 children, who each had 2-3 children(my generation). The math indicates that if we were lucky the familial wealth per person is 2 million. The issues are two fold… the guy who works harder and is smarter and makes a ton of money…dies…the government takes some…now who is managing the money…the people who take over didn’t earn it and don’t have the same attachment…they spent it…and are quite as good at building wealth. My wife’s great grandfather would have taken his wealth and doubled it again if he somehow could have lived another lifespan, his daughters were comfortable and never worried about money. They weren’t profligate but weren’t concerned with building a fortune, they had more than enough to do an buy what ever they wanted. Her families wealth will be gone in a mere 3 generations because lets face it, the only person who maintained it was the man who worked very hard to build it. The truly wealthy are smarter about protecting their wealth and protecting it from their heirs.

  51. joyce says:

    Brian,

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/12/gun-control-psa-advocates-advocates-that-children-steal-their-parents-guns-bring-them-to-school-video/

    “A new gun control Public Service Announcement (PSA) advocates that kids steal their parents’ guns and bring them to school (to turn them in because they don’t feel safe).”

  52. Essex says:

    49. Pls don’t harsh my buzzz dude.

  53. Libturd in the City says:

    “Is the theory now this was killing motivated by radical islam or “retaliation” for garner or both?”

    It depends on which one sells more ads to the 18-34 marketing demographic.

  54. McDullard says:

    Stu #16,

    If someone says “it’s not about the money, it is almost always about the money”; if someone says, “no disrespect, but”, it almost implies disrespect; if someone says, “I am not a racist, but”, that person is.

    So, when someone says or does something “in the name of their religion”, it is rarely about that.

  55. McDullard says:

    #56… You have realized and revealed the grand truth of the world. There is a tremendous business opportunity here — you should start a new religious movement that shuns TV ads.

  56. Libturd in the City says:

    McDullard,

    To be honest, I am not sure if I agree with your assessment. (see what I did there?)

  57. Libturd in the City says:

    “you should start a new religious movement that shuns TV ads.”

    Would that make me a non-View and everyone else would be Viewish?

  58. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I’m not disagreeing with your numbers. I was just going about it in a different way. I was assuming first 2 or 3 years to try and save almost every dollar. This will give you a nice base to start off with. Take a little of that money and use it for a down payment on a multi. Every year, buy another multi. The cash flow after 10 years, including your 500k income should get you at the minimum of 800k a year with real estate and income flows ( not counting stock investments) Take the rest of the cash and put it into the market. Use 50,000 and put it in high risk plays in the alternative energy market ( i would bet on solar, like a company such as sltd) where you can get lucky and hit the moon. The rest, invest it into an sp500 index like voo. Also, you should be making the minimum of 500,000 for the 20 year interval, so you will be investing more on top of the original investment. You can definitely hit 20 million in 20 years if things go well with the market and economy. It’s not precise breakdown, but it’s a quick breakdown of how you can get wealthy off a 500k income if you play the cards right.

    jcer says:
    December 23, 2014 at 12:15 pm
    pumpkin your math is bad. I’ve been running the numbers for quite a while and after taxes and expenses to get to 20 million will take between 40-60 years of saving to get to 20 million and then you have to deal with inflation. See with a 500k income(family of 4, 1 income provider) by the time the government(state and federal, fica) is done you’ll be left with approximately 325k. Now lets deduct 25k in property taxes, 20k in healthcare cost, 4k in utilities, 10k for food, 40k in mortgage payments, 15k in auto costs(car payments, service, gas, and insurance), commute costs of 5k per year. that leaves discretionary income of right around 200k. Now there are discretionary costs that are pretty much mandatory to maintain your social status and thus earning power. Lets just put it this way if the hypothetical family could save 150k a year they are real cheap skates and it will take them a long time to get to that 20 million. Tell me again how in a zirp environment I can assume an annual ROR greater than 5%. Let’s just face it the average annual savings of the 500k income family is closer to 50-75k not 150k. Income !=wealth, wealth is built through owning the business, inheritance, or insanely high income. Even at 1m annual income it is hard to break the barrier into true wealth, the system is rigged against earned income to keep you out. That’s not to say you won’t be comfortable but becoming truly wealthy to the point where it’s generational, there is a high barrier to entry.

  59. Libturd in the City says:

    I would rather take my 500K and give it to a kindergarten teacher so the world could be saved.

  60. The Great Pumpkin says:

    61- That’s not being too aggressive either. Being aggressive you can turn that into a 100million in 20 years if you get lucky and play your cards right. You also can lose it all this route, but hey, if you have no neck in the game, you won’t make anything.

  61. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Don’t worry, he won’t get it.

    Fabius Maximus says:
    December 23, 2014 at 12:41 pm
    #38 Fast Eddie

    “How many people do you think are underwater in Ridgewood?”
    Not many. I said it for years, that Ridgewood was immune from the bust. While the overall sale price numbers might have been down a little. Throughout the downturn Ridgewood has been consistently banging out 4 to 10 sales a week.

  62. The Great Pumpkin says:

    He is looking in places like ridgewood and woodcliff lake. Then he wonders why they are 700,000 for a piece of crap. Trust me, he thinks there are tons of muppets in the places you describe. He refuses to confront reality.

    jcer says:
    December 23, 2014 at 12:22 pm
    Pumpkin, Ridgewood is a top tier town, most of the places Eddie is looking at are not in that caliber of town. I don’t expect a great number of underwater owners struggling in Saddle River, Short Hills,Essex Fells, Franklin Lakes, Mendham,Far Hills, Bernardsville,Rumson, etc. Homes under a million don’t really exist in these towns, and the types of people living in those towns are doing well. It is a tier below, the true middle class that is being squeezed and is more likely to get into trouble. Income for the high earners is flowing right now…so the bills are getting paid. In paramus or Hillsdale…dude got downsized and hit with bigger tax bill, healthcare bill, you name it….way more likely to be underwater and unable to sell at a loss.

  63. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I agree. There are two types of people in this world, people that know how to make money and people that don’t. People are always shocked when someone wins the lottery and is broke a couple of years later. It’s not rocket science as to why. They don’t know how to make money, never mind preserve it. They don’t have the slightest clue as to what inflation is, never mind going to battle with it. Not many people know how to make money, they just know how to spend it.

    jcer says:
    December 23, 2014 at 12:57 pm
    To give an example on generational wealth, I’ll point to my wife’s family. Her great grandfather came from Scotland and built a successful business as a contractor building roads out in the Midwest. He was very successful and rolled a lot of his money into farmland, to the point were the holdings at the point of his death would be worth 80 million dollars today, the problem being that through the generations pieces have been sold and money has been spent by the older generation so now the familial wealth is only about 50 million, now he had 4 daughters, who each had 3-4 children, who each had 2-3 children(my generation). The math indicates that if we were lucky the familial wealth per person is 2 million. The issues are two fold… the guy who works harder and is smarter and makes a ton of money…dies…the government takes some…now who is managing the money…the people who take over didn’t earn it and don’t have the same attachment…they spent it…and are quite as good at building wealth. My wife’s great grandfather would have taken his wealth and doubled it again if he somehow could have lived another lifespan, his daughters were comfortable and never worried about money. They weren’t profligate but weren’t concerned with building a fortune, they had more than enough to do an buy what ever they wanted. Her families wealth will be gone in a mere 3 generations because lets face it, the only person who maintained it was the man who worked very hard to build it. The truly wealthy are smarter about protecting their wealth and protecting it from their heirs.

  64. Joe Guy says:

    Fox News viewers on the Dish Network will not hear about today’s great economic news. The same is true for those who still have Fox.

  65. chicagofinance says:

    amen….

    jcer says:
    December 23, 2014 at 12:57 pm
    To give an example on generational wealth, I’ll point to my wife’s family. Her great grandfather came from Scotland and built a successful business as a contractor building roads out in the Midwest. He was very successful and rolled a lot of his money into farmland, to the point were the holdings at the point of his death would be worth 80 million dollars today, the problem being that through the generations pieces have been sold and money has been spent by the older generation so now the familial wealth is only about 50 million, now he had 4 daughters, who each had 3-4 children, who each had 2-3 children(my generation). The math indicates that if we were lucky the familial wealth per person is 2 million. The issues are two fold… the guy who works harder and is smarter and makes a ton of money…dies…the government takes some…now who is managing the money…the people who take over didn’t earn it and don’t have the same attachment…they spent it…and are quite as good at building wealth. My wife’s great grandfather would have taken his wealth and doubled it again if he somehow could have lived another lifespan, his daughters were comfortable and never worried about money. They weren’t profligate but weren’t concerned with building a fortune, they had more than enough to do an buy what ever they wanted. Her families wealth will be gone in a mere 3 generations because lets face it, the only person who maintained it was the man who worked very hard to build it. The truly wealthy are smarter about protecting their wealth and protecting it from their heirs.

  66. Libturd in the City says:

    “People are always shocked when someone wins the lottery and is broke a couple of years later.”

    Anyone who plays the lottery is not smart. Anyone who plays so often that they actually have a chance of winning is functionally retarded.

  67. Fast Eddie says:

    Pumpkin Head,

    He refuses to confront reality.

    I just listed a bunch of houses in Paramus; some that were in earshot of major highways, asking just under $700,000. Who’s the one out of touch? And where does your “5%” figure come from that states the percentage that are underwater? Go ask all these people that closed on a house in 2004, 2005 and 2006 if they would make the same decision in hindsight?

  68. Fast Eddie says:

    Not many. I said it for years, that Ridgewood was immune from the bust.

    Of course. And they’re not making any more land and salaries only rise. Is that why they had to “buy now” or be priced out forever?

  69. Anon E. Moose says:

    Joyce [52];

    Is the theory now this was killing motivated by radical islam or “retaliation” for garner or both?

    Like Kremlinology, we’re learning only by example which identity grievance group has “hand” among the leftist elite. For example, up until now, no Politically Correct trustafarian faculty lounge-lizard (or NYTimes writer) would have dared point any finger at radical Islam for any societal ill — until, that is, the alternative was placing righteous blame on Al Sharpton’s Brigades chanting “What do we want? Dead Cops!”

    Since its the Muslim faith under Sharpton’s bus, one must conclude AA>Muslim. As-salamu alaykum, Hajji…

  70. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You forgot one more….location, location, location

    Fast Eddie says:
    December 23, 2014 at 2:26 pm
    Not many. I said it for years, that Ridgewood was immune from the bust.

    Of course. And they’re not making any more land and salaries only rise. Is that why they had to “buy now” or be priced out forever?

  71. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Lmao….so true!! It breaks my heart to see some 70 year old roll up to a lottery joint in a beat up car to purchase a 100 dollars worth of tickets.

    Libturd in the City says:
    December 23, 2014 at 2:21 pm
    “People are always shocked when someone wins the lottery and is broke a couple of years later.”

    Anyone who plays the lottery is not smart. Anyone who plays so often that they actually have a chance of winning is functionally retarded.

  72. jcer says:

    Eddie, those houses are absolute garbage if a person buys any of those even with 100k discount, they are truly effed and a bag holder. They look like dirt value minus the cost to demo and haul off the rotting pieces of house. Woodcliff lake isn’t Ridgewood let alone the other towns I rattled off, the lot sizes and housing stock is not at that level and unlike Ridgewood, which has the train as well as the main street it isn’t attracting the Wall Street folks the same way.

  73. The Great Pumpkin says:

    People like Paramus for it’s location and cheap taxes. So they get to say Bergen County without the costs associated with it. I don’t know anything about the houses you are talking about, but if they are priced right, they will sell, if not, they are overpriced and not realistic with their pricing.

    Fast Eddie says:
    December 23, 2014 at 2:24 pm
    Pumpkin Head,

    He refuses to confront reality.

    I just listed a bunch of houses in Paramus; some that were in earshot of major highways, asking just under $700,000. Who’s the one out of touch? And where does your “5%” figure come from that states the percentage that are underwater? Go ask all these people that closed on a house in 2004, 2005 and 2006 if they would make the same decision in hindsight?

  74. Anon E. Moose says:

    Con’t [72];

    On second thought, anything about that website [7] seem fishy? I detect the shavings of an axe being ground. I’ll leave my hypothesis in place, but call it as yet unsupported.

  75. JJ says:

    Less than 17 percent of homeowners have mortgages that were under water in the third quarter, down from as many as 31.4 percent in 2012, according to online real estate advertiser Zillow Inc.

    Chif my fingers are plum tired from buying oil bonds all week. Finally around 11am today I bought the last one as prices are not too high. PBR bonds middle of last week were delightful. Rig bonds at 9% tasty. Some I bought at 92 are pushing Par already. AHHH Baby. Kinda stuck with beaten up investment grade that are still investment grade after this weeks downgrades.

    last year same week I feasted on LIPA bonds. The smell of a NY Par muni with a 5% coupon gets me hard.

  76. Happy Renter says:

    “As-salamu alaykum, Hajji”

    And with that, I’m signing off for the year. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, folks!

  77. Libturd in the City says:

    Ahh, salami bacon?

  78. grim says:

    That sounds delicious

  79. chicagofinance says:

    You bought USD denominated PBR bonds? How far out the curve?……I’ll buy you a six-pack of PBR’s if you get the face back without any impairment (more than 5 years out)…..these are fcuking South American soc!alists…….look at Kirchner…..

    JJ says:
    December 23, 2014 at 3:19 pm
    Chif my fingers are plum tired from buying oil bonds all week. Finally around 11am today I bought the last one as prices are not too high. PBR bonds middle of last week were delightful.

  80. chicagofinance says:

    Why not just buy the equity of a U.S. E&P shale co.?

    The bonds are “bonds” in name only……

  81. chicagofinance says:

    correcting….

    The “bonds” are bonds in name only……

    chicagofinance says:
    December 23, 2014 at 4:04 pm
    Why not just buy the equity of a U.S. E&P shale co.?

    The bonds are “bonds” in name only……

  82. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (Brigadoon in ISIS Edition):

    A German journalist who was embedded with ISIS fighters in Iraq and Syria for 10 days said he met more than a dozen Americans among the terrorists’ ranks — but was most surprised to meet a jihadist from New Jersey.

    Jürgen Todenhöfer, 74, the first Western journalist to be granted access to the fanatical group after the US launched airstrikes in August, told ABC News that the American extremists were US-born, including whites, and Arab-American.

    “The guy from New Jersey. This surprised me,” he said. “You don’t expect someone from New Jersey going to join the Islamic State … They were very tough, well-informed. Some of them very successful in their own countries.

    Modal Trigger

    Jürgen Todenhöfer
    Photo: ABC News

    “In Iraq, 30 percent are foreign fighters; in Syria, 70 percent. They feel discriminated in their countries. They want to live in an Islamic state where no one can bother them and no one can discriminate against them. They are completely sure they will win this fight.”

    Todenhöfer said he wrote to 80 jihadists about seven months ago and developed a strong enough bond for him to travel to the self-styled Caliphate.

    “I have seen many wars. That’s the strongest group I ever met. Very strong, very clever, very enthusiastic. They are extremely brutal. Not just head-cutting. I’m talking about the strategy of religious cleansing. That’s their official philosophy.

    “They are talking about 500 million people who have to die,” Todenhöfer, who is writing a book on ISIS, told ABC News.

    Matthew Olsen, head of the National Counterterrorism Center, has said more than 12,000 foreigners have gone to Syria to fight with extremists, ABC News reported. More than 1,000 Westerners have joined ISIS — including 100 Americans, he said.

  83. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (jj School Trip Edition):

    Seven girls, ages 13 to 15, are pregnant after a five-day school trip to their country’s capital city and their parents are being blamed.

    The schoolgirls, from the city of Banja Luka, went to the Bosnia and Herzegovina capital, Sarajevo.

    Nenad Babici, the national coordinator for reproductive health of the republic, told Inserbia.info that it was discovered that the seven schoolgirls got pregnant on the school trip.

    The school in Banja Luka had taken 28 girls to the nation’s capital city for a five-day trip to visit museums and historic sights in the city, ranked among the finest in the world.

    Furious parents are demanding to know why there was such a lack of teacher supervision, reported the Daily Mail.

    However, Babici blamed parents for not educating their children properly.

    He said that early sexual relations later lead to adverse consequences such as infertility, various diseases, miscarriages and premature births.

    Senad Mehmedbasic, a Sarajevo gynecologist, said a growing trend of underage pregnancies in Bosnia and Herzegovina is worrying.

    “That is the trend of today. But we cannot continue to allow our children to be educated about sex on the street and not in school,” he told Inserbia.info.

    Educational institutes and parents, he said, should play a stronger role in providing effective sex education.

    “It is obvious that children do not have enough knowledge of health education, so they engage in such activities, not knowing the consequences.

    “We have to be more direct in the educational system, it must not be allowed that street teaches children about intimate matters, and that they are later slapped by life.”

  84. JJ says:

    2041 to 2044.
    PETROBRAS INTL FIN CO
    6.75000% 01/27/2041GTD SR NT
    paid 89 current price 95

    PETROBRAS GLBL FIN B V
    7.25000% 03/17/2044SR GLBL NT ISIN #US71647NAK54
    Paid 96 current price is 99

    PETROBRAS INTL FIN CO
    BAA2 / BBB-
    CPN: 6.875% Due : 1/20/2040
    paid 93, current price 94.3

    Also bought RIG and TECK bonds.

    Also bought BP stock.

    They are investment grade bonds of company in business since 1950s and these longer dated issues are back by full faith of PBR.

    This bond I have not bought but at 127 looks juicy as long term and very little interest rate risk.
    WEATHERFORD INTL LTDSR NT
    9.87500% 03/01/2039

    chicagofinance says:
    December 23, 2014 at 4:01 pm
    You bought USD denominated PBR bonds? How far out the curve?……I’ll buy you a six-pack of PBR’s if you get the face back without any impairment (more than 5 years out)…..these are fcuking South American soc!alists…….look at Kirchner…..

  85. JJ says:

    POPULAR NA CAP TR I BONDS 6.564% 09/15/2034 MAKE WHOLE

    Back around 5 years ago I recall Chifi laughed when I bought this bond at 50 cents on the dollar. Still ticking. Still in Tarp and Uncle Sam still has my back. I got like 32 percent back in interest which means I am almost at free ride time when I get back more interest than I paid so technically it is all gravy.

    Chifi you got to drop those trousers once in a while so folks know you still got balls.

  86. grim says:

    Well, what do you need to be worth to afford a $3 million dollar home in Short Hills? $3 billion. Still, it won’t stop a big fat Escalade from driving through your house.

  87. grim says:

    From the Star Ledger:

    Car crashes into billionaire Peter Kellogg’s Short Hills home

    A Short Hills home which was the scene of a single-car accident on Monday belonged to billionaire Peter Kellogg, police confirmed.

    Around 10:42 a.m. the driver of a 2011 Cadillac Escalade drove into Kellogg’s home on Stewart Road in Short Hills, according to Millburn Police Department.

    The vehicle travelled through the Colonial house’s center hall, the living room and exited through the back window, which was situated on a hill, said Millburn fire department battalion chief Robert Echavarria.

    The home was unoccupied at the time, officials said.

    The 26-year-old driver and a 56-year-old passenger in the vehicle were transported to the Morristown Medical Center with minor injuries, police said.

    Millburn police Sergent Michael Fattal said the driver stepped onto the accelerator instead of the break by accident.

    Kellogg, who sold his brokerage firm Spear, Leeds and Kellogg to Goldman Sachs in 2000, is worth $3.4 billion, according to Forbes.

    Reached by phone Kellogg said he did not know who the driver was.

    “I don’t know too much,” he said during a brief interview. “I am sorry I can’t help but Merry Merry.”

  88. chicagofinance says:

    jj: I found some video footage of your first “taste” of PBR bonds….
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTVj5lIkxp4

  89. All Hype says:

    Fox News viewers on the Dish Network will not hear about today’s great economic news.

    What great economic news? The increase in GDP was almost due entirely to Obamacare. Yes, people had to reduce their savings to pay for their own and for someone else’s free healthcare.

    Keep drinking the Kool-Aid so guys like me, libtard, and Gary will sit back and watch the sheep like Joe, anon and Ottoman trying their best to convince the masses that Obama truly is the messiah when all they are doing is accelerating their own delivery to the slaughterhouse.

    Baa! Baa!

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-23/here-reason-surge-q3-gdp

  90. McDullard says:

    #92 … Hype, I thought Obamacare was supposed to ruin the country and not result in 5% GDP growth! Here’s a data point: I was on private insurance for a few months (between Cobra expiry and employee position) the price on the exchange and in private market were reasonable, and much less than the Cobra premium — and these are the zero deductible “platinum” plans.

  91. All Hype says:

    McDullard:

    Here is another article about the GDP boost:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-23/exposing-deception-how-us-economy-grew-140-billion-q3-due-data-revisions

    Seriously, you cannot see what is going on the USA right now? I have no agenda for either party. I only call it like I see it. a 5% increase in GDP strictly due to revisions and a loss of 80 billion in wealth is a horrible economic report.

  92. Liquor Luge says:

    Hype, good is bad; bad is good. Time to start sucking the pipe of liberal Amerika’s self-loathing and guilt. Bow down to Sharpton, your master!

  93. McDullard says:

    Hype, some spending may even be due to many people buying new iPhones and corresponding phone plans! Not all spending is bad; more people buying health insurance (vs staying uninsured) is not a bad thing in the long run.

    There are many wrong things with the economy (a lot of waste in the budget — including things like tanks that the army doesn’t want or need — dems and repubs both do this stuff), but Obamacare isn’t the thing to complain about in terms of impact.

    Obamacare itself is not perfect (single payer would make more sense), but is it a step in the right direction of having decent coverage for all.

  94. Liquor Luge says:

    These people in NYC who continue to protest should get a taste of what truly abusive cops can really do.

  95. Liquor Luge says:

    Dullard (96)-

    I wonder how many of the dirtbags out marching in NYC I’m paying the insurance bill for.

  96. Ron Jermany says:

    53: That’s what they say – shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations. Many wealth creators don’t like to share with the next generation the extent of their wealth for fear of creating an environment in which they are not encouraged to work. In many cases they wind up creating what is feared.

  97. JJ says:

    The cost of the house is the least expensive. This aint texas with cheap taxes and folks who will landscape, paint and do repairs almost for free with no heating bills or snow shoveling and cheap insurance.

    those white elepants cost a fortune to maintain even mortgage free

    grim says:
    December 23, 2014 at 5:12 pm
    Well, what do you need to be worth to afford a $3 million dollar home in Short Hills? $3 billion. Still, it won’t stop a big fat Escalade from driving through your house.

Comments are closed.