NJ Economic Year in Review

From the Record:

New Jersey’s economic ups and downs in 2014

There was a bit more optimism regarding the New Jersey economy as 2014 came to a close, with job growth improving; more disposable income helping boost retail sales; the industrial side of commercial real estate strengthening; and housing continuing its recovery — though more unevenly than expected. There was even renewed interest in mergers and acquisitions.

At the same time, the casino industry’s implosion in Atlantic City accelerated; more corporations left, or weighed leaving, the Garden State; and the state didn’t get the pot of gold anticipated from hosting the Super Bowl.

New Jersey awarded $2 billion in corporate incentives in the last year for projects that state officials said would create 14,600 jobs and keep 20,000 more from leaving the state.

Yet as the year winds down, the state’s economic rebound trails that of the nation and neighboring states, and New Jersey jobs are in short supply.

North Jersey’s commercial real estate market roared back this year, with the industrial and multifamily sectors remarkably strong. Investors and capital, from New York City and around the globe, were attracted to properties in the Garden State, where macro trends are helping to boost the market.

Despite New Jersey’s attempt to keep businesses in the state, Bergen and Passaic counties lost some big corporate citizens this year. And more major company exits may be looming.

The retail business continued to reinvent itself in 2014, in North Jersey and around the world.

The housing market in New Jersey and nationwide continued to climb out of its worst downturn since the Depression in 2014, but the progress was uneven. Homebuilding was up, spurred by strong rental construction; but the number of home sales dropped from 2013’s pace, as households continued to face the difficult realities of flat incomes and tight mortgage standards.

Home prices rose, but at a tepid pace. And New Jersey led the nation in foreclosure activity, as lenders dealt with a backlog of distressed loans that built up after a near-freeze of foreclosures in the state prompted by questions about mortgage industry practices.

Rarely has a New Jersey industry declined as fast as the Atlantic City casino sector in 2014.

The closure of four of the city’s 12 casinos this year at a loss of nearly a quarter of the state’s casino jobs — 7,433 since the start of the year, according to the state Division of Gaming Enforcement — has debilitated a once key state industry, and badly hurt the economy in the southern part of the state.

While consumer mortgage lending slowed, lending to businesses picked up this year, especially for those banks that serve New Jersey towns and cities closest to Manhattan, where high rents have spurred commercial building and multifamily construction and renovation work in commuter towns.

This entry was posted in Economics, Employment, Housing Recovery, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

73 Responses to NJ Economic Year in Review

  1. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  2. Ben says:

    Economic rebound is tough when your property taxes hit 5 figures on modest homes. Tolls have skyrocketed. They are talking about gas tax. New Jersey looks like it finally hit a crossroad as with respect to taxes. They are actually delaying our recovery with respect to the rest of the nation. Businesses have consistently jumped borders and everyone seems to be leaving for North Carolina.

  3. NJT says:

    “…when your property taxes hit 5 figures on modest homes.”

    That’s why I left Morris County. Would have left the state but wife refused.

  4. jj says:

    Gas tax is only like 32 cents a gallon in NJ. In LI it is 62 a gallon. Even at 2.80 a gallon the cost of gas is as a percentage of salary insiginifant.

    Low income folks in midwest living on a fast food salary the fall in gas price is a god send as it is a large percentage of income.

    Ben says:

    December 29, 2014 at 8:57 am

    Economic rebound is tough when your property taxes hit 5 figures on modest homes. Tolls have skyrocketed. They are talking about gas tax. New Jersey looks like it finally hit a crossroad as with respect to taxes. They are actually delaying our recovery with respect to the rest of the nation. Businesses have consistently jumped borders and everyone seems to be leaving for North Carolina.

  5. Fast Eddie says:

    Despite New Jersey’s attempt to keep businesses in the state, Bergen and Passaic counties lost some big corporate citizens this year. And more major company exits may be looming.

    Thank G0d we have Wall Street salaries to keep us presitigous. I mean, they’re not building any more land here.

  6. Fast Eddie says:

    Homebuilding was up, spurred by strong rental construction; but the number of home sales dropped from 2013′s pace, as households continued to face the difficult realities of flat incomes and tight mortgage standards.

    Nonsense! The majority of house agents would tell you it’s never been a better time to buy!!

  7. Juice Box says:

    Gas tax is low in NJ but there are tolls all over the place to make up for it. The politicians will only use any increase in gas tax to plug a hole in unfunded liabilities. It won’t be used to fill pot holes and replace aging bridges and roads. Even if the money was used to fix the roads we NJ spends about 8.4 times the national average for every mile of road it maintains or builds.

    I say privatize it all.

  8. Ben says:

    Gas tax is only like 32 cents a gallon in NJ. In LI it is 62 a gallon. Even at 2.80 a gallon the cost of gas is as a percentage of salary insiginifant.

    Low income folks in midwest living on a fast food salary the fall in gas price is a god send as it is a large percentage of income.

    It would be insignificant if it wasn’t already piled on top of 5 figure property taxes, a high income tax, and ridiculous tolls. At some point, the person earning 70k a year has lost all his/her disposable income to all of these little jabs.

  9. jj says:

    Everyone on this site makes 500K a year and is extremely good looking. I dont get what you are whniing about.

    Ben says:

    December 29, 2014 at 11:46 am

    Gas tax is only like 32 cents a gallon in NJ. In LI it is 62 a gallon. Even at 2.80 a gallon the cost of gas is as a percentage of salary insiginifant.

    Low income folks in midwest living on a fast food salary the fall in gas price is a god send as it is a large percentage of income.

    It would be insignificant if it wasn’t already piled on top of 5 figure property taxes, a high income tax, and ridiculous tolls. At some point, the person earning 70k a year has lost all his/her disposable income to all of these little jabs.

  10. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Agree… If you don’t live on the coast, good luck!
    jj says:
    December 29, 2014 at 9:46 am
    Gas tax is only like 32 cents a gallon in NJ. In LI it is 62 a gallon. Even at 2.80 a gallon the cost of gas is as a percentage of salary insiginifant.

    Low income folks in midwest living on a fast food salary the fall in gas price is a god send as it is a large percentage of income.

  11. jcer says:

    Ben agreed, living in metro NYC area is like death by a thousand cuts. The government ineptitude in NY and NJ is astounding. Taxed to death with little to show for it. It costs more to do public works projects here than in most parts of Europe for some reason. We also pay a higher price for utilities which doesn’t really make sense given our infrastructure was built when my grandparents were young children. Gas tax in NJ is about the only thing that is reasonable. Lets see in NJ we pay excessive car insurance, high property taxes, high income taxes, high utilities, high tolls. Yet somehow the state is broke. You cannot survive here on a median income and a lot of that is due to an inherently inefficient government.

  12. A Home Buyer says:

    2 & 3 & 11 –

    Out of curiosity, what do you consider equivalent options to paying “5 figures” for Property Tax or the such?

    One could move to the boon-docks of Sussex County and pay a fraction of the property tax, with the net result being a 45 minute to 2 hour commute depending on where your job is and where you settle.

    One could also move out of state, but that could also result in a 30-40% reduction in expected income, assuming they could even find similar jobs. Any public sector job would certainly be paid less (around 60% of NJ income by my rash and quick study) and it has been discussed here that NJ jobs relocated “elsewhere” normally end up being adjusted downward due to “cost of life” differences between the two areas.

    So to save 8K in taxes you are going to remove 30K in salary by relocating or travel (effectively longer work day) 1.5 to 4 hours more each day?

    I am not disputing that a case by case analysis is required and some people can easily manage the transition, but would the average person benefit from this move, or just a lucky few who can cash out from New Jersey?

    I ask because I had to do such an analysis for my eventual move, and found in most cases I was financially worse then paying the extra cost associated with taxes (although it does hurt inside to say that).

  13. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I have a cousin in Brick and Hapotcong paying 4,000 in property taxes. Two middle class communities. People want to live in upper middle class or higher communities in nj, but don’t want to pay the taxes. So you have an 800,000 home in a top notch community, but are crying about taxes. Don’t have such a nice home in a nice area and you won’t be paying such high taxes. Simple as that. Too bad the truth hurts. People want to live in a 4,000 sq ft home in Ridgewood or wayne, and then complain about the 20,000 taxes that come with it. Go buy a ranch in some lower middle class town for 250,000 and I promise you that your taxes will be low. It’s wishful thinking to make a lot of money, live in a nice home in a great/safe community, and not have to pay high taxes. I promise you that this place does not exist in the world.

    A Home Buyer says:
    December 29, 2014 at 1:44 pm
    2 & 3 & 11 –

    Out of curiosity, what do you consider equivalent options to paying “5 figures” for Property Tax or the such?

    One could move to the boon-docks of Sussex County and pay a fraction of the property tax, with the net result being a 45 minute to 2 hour commute depending on where your job is and where you settle.

    One could also move out of state, but that could also result in a 30-40% reduction in expected income, assuming they could even find similar jobs. Any public sector job would certainly be paid less (around 60% of NJ income by my rash and quick study) and it has been discussed here that NJ jobs relocated “elsewhere” normally end up being adjusted downward due to “cost of life” differences between the two areas.

    So to save 8K in taxes you are going to remove 30K in salary by relocating or travel (effectively longer work day) 1.5 to 4 hours more each day?

    I am not disputing that a case by case analysis is required and some people can easily manage the transition, but would the average person benefit from this move, or just a lucky few who can cash out from New Jersey?

    I ask because I had to do such an analysis for my eventual move, and found in most cases I was financially worse then paying the extra cost associated with taxes (although it does hurt inside to say that).

  14. The Great Pumpkin says:

    So you see the correlation? You pay a higher price for everything in the nyc metro area because you get higher pay in this area. Other places have lower costs because people get payed a lot less. If this was not the case, the nyc metro area was immediately become a ghost town with people leaving the area for the places getting paid the same amount but with lower costs. Obviously, this is not the case. The only people leaving this area are the people who have already made their money and are moving to these crappier places to stretch their dollar.

    jcer says:
    December 29, 2014 at 12:53 pm
    Ben agreed, living in metro NYC area is like death by a thousand cuts. The government ineptitude in NY and NJ is astounding. Taxed to death with little to show for it. It costs more to do public works projects here than in most parts of Europe for some reason. We also pay a higher price for utilities which doesn’t really make sense given our infrastructure was built when my grandparents were young children. Gas tax in NJ is about the only thing that is reasonable. Lets see in NJ we pay excessive car insurance, high property taxes, high income taxes, high utilities, high tolls. Yet somehow the state is broke. You cannot survive here on a median income and a lot of that is due to an inherently inefficient government.

  15. kuchak says:

    “…and the state didn’t get the pot of gold anticipated from hosting the Super Bowl.”

    Why? If an analysis indicated we were getting a pot of gold, why didn’t it happen? Did the event not sell out?

    It has been shown that the hosting cities for events like the World Cup and Olympics do not reap huge rewards. Whoever anticipated a pot of gold was delusional.

  16. Juice Box says:

    Plumpkin – even in shit towns in NJ you get near 5 figures in property taxes.

  17. Juice Box says:

    Let’s pick that shitburg up off Hamburg turnpike as an example.

    Property taxes $8,377

    2 beds 1 bath 1,020 sqft

    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/95-Chestnut-Dr-Wayne-NJ-07470/39789224_zpid/

  18. jcer says:

    My problem is not so much the taxes, but the fact that even with all of the fees and taxes the area still looks like a third world country and the state is hock up to it’s eyeballs. That simply should not be the case. If I’m paying 2-3% of home value in property taxes, the schools should be top notch, the roads should be good and services should be high. In most of these towns you have crummy roads, a large police force, schools that are just eh but they also don’t have fantastic facilities which they should given the taxes. Property taxes are the tip of the iceberg.

  19. Juice Box says:

    Here is Plumpkin’s answer. It is a knock down house!

    Sure it is Plumpkin, it’s 1/8th of an acre or a 6,000 sq ft lot with no frontage. Go Ahead and build your dream home there. Knock it down and put up a 4 br modest 2,800 sq ft home. What will the taxes be then? 16k? LoL!

  20. Juice Box says:

    Here is a nice one up the road with $9,900 in taxes. Get this it has a “view of the sunset” Lol! The only place you cannot see the sunset is in a freaking cave. Check out the retro metal kitchen cabinets and the wrap around front porch!

    Lol!!!!!

    Hurry up bring your check book!

    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/39-Valhalla-Way-Wayne-NJ-07470/39797251_zpid/

  21. A Home Buyer says:

    17 – Juice

    Not defending Pumpkin, in-fact if we could just pretend he never spoke I’m fine with that…

    But what is your alternative? I get the property taxes are high and that house is probably 75K over priced, but what is the other option?

    – Sit out and do nothing (assuming you do not have to move)?

    – Rent?

    – Move to Mythical Town, USA while keeping the same NJ salary in the same job, with an equal distance commute and a disregard for other regional expenses like insurances for Hurricanes, Floods, or Tornadoes and assuming heating / cooling costs are the same to name a few?

    I’m not trying to be snarky here, but very rarely are options ever presented that when implemented would allow the average person in New Jersey to escape the situation being presented.
    – If your Poor, NJ has one of the best Welfare policies in the nation, no reason to leave.
    – If your middle class, you could probably manage to escape New Jersey but the benefit to doing so is so-so. You don’t make enough or pay enough to see a real difference.
    – If your upper middle class your probably taking a hit by moving due to income loss outpacing tax savings.
    – And if your upper class / wealthy, which most everyone here appears to be, you can do whatever the frik you want.

  22. The Great Pumpkin says:

    What is your definition of shit town?

    Check out this listing for under 200k and 4k in taxes. Yes, in nj. Some people make it sound like this does not exist in nj. 800k is 4 times this house. So don’t be suprised when your home is 800k and has 4 times the property tax cost at 16k. Too many people want it all. Want the beautiful home and community, but don’t want to pay the taxes.

    See what I found on #Zillow!
    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/39546227_zpid

    Juice Box says:
    December 29, 2014 at 2:16 pm
    Plumpkin – even in shit towns in NJ you get near 5 figures in property taxes.

  23. A Home Buyer says:

    18 – jcer,

    So what is your ideal location in the US then? On average the US infrastructure received a D+. That is not all or entirely because of just New Jersey.

    The problem is endemic of the whole US.

  24. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Take this town out of wayne and place it in brick….problem solved. You now have cheap taxes and a cheap price.

    This person is paying 9,900 in taxes due to the community it is located in. Lake community located about 15 miles outside of nyc with a good school system to go along with safe streets and almost 90% white population will
    cost this much.

    Juice Box says:
    December 29, 2014 at 2:37 pm
    Here is a nice one up the road with $9,900 in taxes. Get this it has a “view of the sunset” Lol! The only place you cannot see the sunset is in a freaking cave. Check out the retro metal kitchen cabinets and the wrap around front porch!

    Lol!!!!!

    Hurry up bring your check book!

    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/39-Valhalla-Way-Wayne-NJ-07470/39797251_zpid/

  25. Juice Box says:

    re: # 21 – “But what is your alternative?” Well Plumpkin said the ONLY alternative is to take it like a man without the vaseline. So grab your checkbook and your ankles and smile.

  26. The Great Pumpkin says:

    24- forgot major highway access along with bus and train access.

  27. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Stop making so much money and you won’t have to pay so much in taxes. Or lobby your govt to force corporations to pick up the tax tab that they used to pay for, but have since lobbied for you to pay.

    Juice Box says:
    December 29, 2014 at 2:51 pm
    re: # 21 – “But what is your alternative?” Well Plumpkin said the ONLY alternative is to take it like a man without the vaseline. So grab your checkbook and your ankles and smile.

  28. grim says:

    Oh don’t you worry, the budget eating mindless zombies from the Northeast are making their way into town councils and school board meetings across the entire US now.

    You can actually see the tax bills rise for every expat location for a Northeasterner, we’re like a plague.

    Just wait, wherever we go we demand huge spending and huge benefits, without regard for what they cost. We make our way into the political machine, and drive up wages through patronage positions. The sucker pols in the redneck states don’t even know what hit ’em when we get in.

    Expat NJ’ians are carriers of the fiscal ebola plague, budgets bleeding out wherever we go. Call someplace paradise in NJ Monthly, you can kiss it goodbye.

  29. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Agreed. But this is what happens with borrowing costs. Thank the wealthy for this. They continuously provide the means for govt to go into debt. It’s funny when someone wealthy complains about govt debt, chances are that they are making a lot of money off that debt through the purchasing and selling of bonds. They even rigged that system to include “guaranteed” in the clauses.

    jcer says:
    December 29, 2014 at 2:25 pm
    My problem is not so much the taxes, but the fact that even with all of the fees and taxes the area still looks like a third world country and the state is hock up to it’s eyeballs. That simply should not be the case. If I’m paying 2-3% of home value in property taxes, the schools should be top notch, the roads should be good and services should be high. In most of these towns you have crummy roads, a large police force, schools that are just eh but they also don’t have fantastic facilities which they should given the taxes. Property taxes are the tip of the iceberg.

  30. jcer says:

    23, the difference being that in anyplace else in the USA I am not sending 45k to my municipal and state government.

  31. Juice Box says:

    Plumpkin 15 miles my ass. Also a Lake “community”? What are you going to do run across Hamburg turnpike with your kayak? Oh wait you can only swim and fish. I’d rather be in a walk-up off Mosuolou parkway overlooking the reservoir listening to gunfire at night than spending my summers hanging around that lake.

    A quick google search “lionshead lake wayne” shows that community can barely keep the lake open, people aren’t even paying their dues.

    You build a straw man every chance you get, Brick is a retirement/piney community with part’s that are seasonal second shore homes by the bay. Few people make the 65 mile commute to NYC from there.

  32. 1987 Condo says:

    #28….exactly….I said before, when I was a kid, NJ was the “Texas of the east”..no income tax, open land, cheap….NYers fixed that, as they are starting to “fix” other parts of the country (not to lay all blame on NYers, but just spent Holidays with family, turns our it is the fault of those CEOS as to why the rest of us all don’t have $100,000 a year pensions…the point is not that they have a good deal..but the rest of society has been screwed…lol)

  33. jcer says:

    29, we could disband most of the local and state government and they largely would not be missed. The government is in debt because they are incompetent. The state needs to payoff the debt, and cut expenses to be competitive. First cut is all of the money wasted in the urban ghetto, school vouchers and eminent domain to reclaim valuable real estate for re-development.

  34. A Home Buyer says:

    30/ 33,

    Not disagreeing, but you are also paid significantly more (career level jobs anyways) in this area as a result of those expenses.

    Although I do question the 45K number in taxes. Assuming 100K in income, you would pay 7% to the state, assume 20K in property tax which even for new Jersey is high… and those are the two biggest items and I’m at 27K.

    Assuming your a fool and spend every cent of your income with 7% sales tax taxes puts you at 34K total tax payment. Most everything else should be pennies in comparison. **Except federal income tax, which is universally painful and not including that in your 45K tax burden.

    So I can only assume your statement implies an income upwards of 350K? Is your claim that Tax Burden decrease will significantly outpace income deprecation in these areas at that NJ income level?

    And still back to the original question, what is the alternative? North Dakota? Wyoming? (Both of which I would love to move too!)

  35. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [28];

    With Florida passing NY in population this year, are they ALL coming from the northeast?

  36. 1987 Condo says:

    #34….you are high on the NJ State income tax $100,000 taxable is $2,749 for married couple, $4, 242 Single. So more like 3% or 4%

    http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/pdf/current/taxtable.pdf

  37. grim says:

    Is anywhere in the top 10 largest metro areas a bargain?

    1. NY
    2. LA
    3. Chicago
    4. Dallas
    5. Houston
    6. Philly
    7. Washington
    8. Miami
    9. Atlanta
    10. Boston
    11. San Fran (for the hell of it).

  38. grim says:

    At first glance, I want to say Texas, but the property taxes in the desirable suburbs of Dallas and Houston push over $10k.

  39. Ben says:

    Out of curiosity, what do you consider equivalent options to paying “5 figures” for Property Tax or the such?

    The jobs are moving out of state as well seeking lower salaries. People in NJ are following them. The taxes can’t stay high if we don’t keep our jobs here.

  40. Ben says:

    What is your definition of shit town?

    Check out this listing for under 200k and 4k in taxes. Yes, in nj. Some people make it sound like this does not exist in nj. 800k is 4 times this house. So don’t be suprised when your home is 800k and has 4 times the property tax cost at 16k. Too many people want it all. Want the beautiful home and community, but don’t want to pay the taxes.

    See what I found on #Zillow!
    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/39546227_zpid

    Lol, Michael posts a listing from the heroin capital of white suburbia.

  41. grim says:

    Maybe only in Atlanta and Miami are you not paying more than $10k for a nice house in a desirable suburb?

  42. A Home Buyer says:

    36 – 1987

    Correct. For worst case scenario (apparently to much) I did not take into account the progressive tax brackets and just spit-balled a flat 7% tax burden for that general bracket. Same is also true for the sales tax estimate. I used the full 100K and not the after tax / disposable income. That will be significantly less than 7K overall as well.

    Point being though, 45K state, Local, and county tax burden makes you incredibly income rich by my feeble calculations.
    **Unless I’m forgetting something that equals approximately 20K in taxes that a guy making 100K would have to pay. Which is entirely possible given my Pumpkin induced euphoria.

  43. Zack says:

    100K is the new poverty salary here in NJ. Beg, borrow or steal, but you need atleast 5 times that to live a comfortable family life.
    500K is the new 100K

  44. A Home Buyer says:

    39 -Ben,

    No disagreement there. But what do you do for the next 20 years while the system either crashes or resets to a lower income scale?*

    *Prediction based solely on the anecdotal ramblings of dozens of Internet based Arm-Chair Generals (some of who are completely impartial**) armed with proprietary excel spreadsheets going back decades*** years stating that things will only go down hill in New Jersey from here?

    **Impartial defined as having books, merchandise, or services dependent on a SHTF scenario occurring for New Jersey

    ***Decades defined as tenth’s of years.

  45. jcer says:

    married, we both work paid a little over 21k in state income tax last year. Taxes are PILOT on the Mold Coast so we only paid 10k. We have looked at many homes with 20k+ in property taxes.

  46. A Home Buyer says:

    45 – jcer,

    Just an FYI, I am very poor compared to you.

    But I ask again, if you moved to Wyoming do you think yours or your spouses income would be unaffected? Would the move to a low tax and cheap state not be undermined by a significant loss of income?

    And applied more broadly, could the average NJ Citizen make that move and boast that claim as well?

  47. jcer says:

    42, had a good year last year, probably not going to have as good of one this year. Two well paying jobs, in a year with good bonus plus additional income from investments and family businesses on both sides, means for a year we were in the 1%. Not so much now as the 1% category has risen and the income picture was not as good in 2014.

  48. Grim says:

    No, you need to leave this area with a shitload of cash to be sailing easy. Ironically, most in this position are long term owners with paid off homes, not people who can barely scrape together a down payment.

  49. Grim says:

    Otherwise, you were presented with a sweet relo offer or a job offer from a competitor (and you have no non-compete). In the first case, you are generally a lucky recipient and this is not repeatable or available widely.

  50. Juice Box says:

    re: # 4 8 – Bingo

    leave with cash but to where?

    Move to Wyoming? BAH! There is a reason why the settlers kept going west ya know.
    1/2 a million hapless parched souls living in the thin air, the lowest point is 3,100 ft above sea level, and the biggest town is not much larger than Hackensack. Hope you like your steers and qu**ers, and long ass sub-zero winters.

  51. jcer says:

    We are here because of income…we could move to Chicago, LA or San Francisco and probably still have a high income, none of which are low tax or low cost. I understand full well why it costs a lot to live here, it is directly related to the income of the populous, but I’d argue there still is a disconnect and some funniness in the market. It goes back to not why I am I paying so much but rather why do I get so little for what I pay.

  52. Juice Box says:

    Friends of mine re-located. They have their kid enrolled in a Chinese Immersion school a fully funded public school. Where can you find that in NJ?

  53. JJ says:

    The current property tax on my home is $2,400 a year. But I got lucky. I grieved the taxes a few times then when Sandy hit they allowed the total damage to house to be deducted from the current assessed value. My wife wants to expand house or fix up house in a bigger project so I did not fix all the Sandy damage. Certain parts will get thrown out in renovation so I left old stuff. My screen door is still rusty, my deck the salt water ate the paint, and my garage and porch are a mess. The assessor did actually come by and visit house and had photos of outside only taken which might have helped. I did fully renovate certain parts inside house. But from outside nothing has changed. Average house on my block pays around $9,400.

    Honestly, until I replace the sheet rock and stuff in garage which I just cut above Sandy line I dont think the house is really worth much. It is pretty clear house had four feet of water in parts of house which is scary for some folk. But a neighbor sold his house at pre-sandy price recently and it was all renovated and the couple who bought it I think thought it had a few inches. I pretended to be a customer and realtor at open house actually told me a few inches!!!! Bet if house still had four foot marks it would have sold for peanuts

    Either way very happy to pay 2,400 in taxes instead of pre-sandy 8,400

    Home Buyer says:
    December 29, 2014 at 1:44 pm
    2 & 3 & 11 –

    Out of curiosity, what do you consider equivalent options to paying “5 figures” for Property Tax or the such?

    One could move to the boon-docks of Sussex County and pay a fraction of the property tax, with the net result being a 45 minute to 2 hour commute depending on where your job is and where you settle.

  54. 1987 Condo says:

    Note, North Carolina Income Tax in 2013 for $100,000 (married/joint) was $6,700 or about $4,000 more than NJ Income tax. We are relatively low taxed for incomes sub $100k.

  55. 1987 Condo says:

    #54..my kid goes to NC State so I am all over NC cost comparisons….

  56. Ben says:

    No disagreement there. But what do you do for the next 20 years while the system either crashes or resets to a lower income scale?*

    Live within your means. Just because their may be greener monetary pastures elsewhere doesn’t mean you have to follow. There is still no other state I’d rather live in.

  57. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Ok, not 15 miles, more like 24. Look at your post below. It’s not Hamburg, it’s packanak lake. That is a beautiful lake community.

    Lion’s head lake is prob one of the cheapest parts of wayne. I wouldn’t describe this area as a lake community.

    Juice Box says:
    December 29, 2014 at 2:21 pm
    Let’s pick that shitburg up off Hamburg turnpike as an example.

    Property taxes $8,377

    2 beds 1 bath 1,020 sqft

    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/95-Chestnut-Dr-Wayne-NJ-07470/39789224_zpid/

    Juice Box says:
    December 29, 2014 at 3:12 pm
    Plumpkin 15 miles my ass. Also a Lake “community”? What are you going to do run across Hamburg turnpike with your kayak? Oh wait you can only swim and fish. I’d rather be in a walk-up off Mosuolou parkway overlooking the reservoir listening to gunfire at night than spending my summers hanging around that lake.

    A quick google search “lionshead lake wayne” shows that community can barely keep the lake open, people aren’t even paying their dues.

    You build a straw man every chance you get, Brick is a retirement/piney community with part’s that are seasonal second shore homes by the bay. Few people make the 65 mile commute to NYC from there.

  58. jcer says:

    54. I’d argue that’s actually the problem in NJ. A large percentage of tax payers make less than 200k and they are paying lower taxes than other states. A small increase on the 100k crowd goes way further than a small increase on the 500k crowd, as there are far fewer people earning 500k.

  59. 1987 Condo says:

    #58…well, I think you have discovered the real issue, they would need to undo the Whitman 30% tax cut on the under $100,000 to move the needle substantially, although, I doubt that would be a popular move.

  60. joyce says:

    58
    jcer,

    While that is true, I think your conclusion in #51 is 99.9% of the problem (why do I get so little for what I pay).

    “Even if the money was used to fix the roads we NJ spends about 8.4 times the national average for every mile of road it maintains or builds.”

  61. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Ok, since brick wasn’t good enough, I’ll give another example. This is a bergen county town. Asking 315,000 and taxes under 6,000. Not far from nyc.

    See what I found on #Zillow!
    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/38027143_zpid

  62. The Great Pumpkin says:

    61- The point I’m making is that the people complaining about the high property taxes and home prices do not realize that they are looking in the upper end of the market. They are looking in upper middle class or higher communities and complaining about the costs that come with this territory. It would be like fast Eddie complaining about the price of Manhatten real estate and trying to justify that the real estate is screwed based on the national income data as compared to the per sq ft price of real estate in Manhatten. He would state that these prices per sq ft were not possible based on national income avgs. How can someone making the national median income support the prices per sq ft in Manhatten. They can’t, it’s a small portion of the population that supports Manhatten pricing, the portion of the population making the most money. So national avg means nothing in this case. Same thing applies to the wealthy areas of north jersey. The people living in these communities are not avg, they are upper middle class or higher.

  63. chicagofinance says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN4KzeTzOlw
    Juice Box says:
    December 29, 2014 at 2:16 pm
    Plumpkin – even in shit towns in NJ you get near 5 figures in property taxes.

  64. jcer says:

    61, Is that a house or one of those prefab sheds you can get at 84 lumber? As for Gary’s complaints I can see them, affordability is not where it should be at this point. A lot of it is zirp influenced, people buy based on payments, right now debt service on a 30 year is 3%, what if it were 6%? We can’t assume price growth because if the rate environment changes so do the prices. A far greater proportion of buyers are dependent on cheap credit and no money down than we’d like to admit.

  65. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I agree. Zirp has played a major role.

    Zirp stabilized prices. Zirp was never supposed fix the real estate problem, it was only used to keep the market from chrashing, which it did successfully. Some would argue that the govt should have let it crash, but imo, that would have set us back years in the recovery. When wage inflation comes (go ahead and laugh), they will be able to raise rates and prices at the same time. This will take time, by 2020’s, things will be much better.

    jcer says:
    December 29, 2014 at 6:28 pm
    61, Is that a house or one of those prefab sheds you can get at 84 lumber? As for Gary’s complaints I can see them, affordability is not where it should be at this point. A lot of it is zirp influenced, people buy based on payments, right now debt service on a 30 year is 3%, what if it were 6%? We can’t assume price growth because if the rate environment changes so do the prices. A far greater proportion of buyers are dependent on cheap credit and no money down than we’d like to admit.

  66. The Great Pumpkin says:

    65- If wage inflation doesn’t come, it will be impossible to fix the economy. Mine as well stop participating in it now, it is impossible to move foward economically without wage inflation. It will all come to a grinding halt if wages remain on a trajectory based on stagflation. So that’s why I don’t get why people laugh when I speak of wage inflation. If it never comes, the economy has no chance in hell to get better.

  67. Juice Box says:

    Re: #66 – wage inflation bah. How about output gap? You know all those poor souls who cannot find work? Right now it is around 2 trillion a year. There is your demand, and it ain’t closing anytime soon. We still have a generation to go, by then it will be a moot point since death solves all problems, and dying in your underwater POS is the fate of many.

  68. The Great Pumpkin says:

    66- Put it another way, the fed couldn’t let the housing market crash since it would take down every segment of the economy. It would totally take out banks and the consumer, leaving everything else to fall down like dominoes. That is scary and a nightmare scenario. So instead of letting the prices crash, they lowered the interest rates as a cushion on pricing. With lower rates, the individual could afford the house at an almost similar price due to the lower rates. Meaning you didn’t have to lower prices as much due to the lower rates taking the hit in pricing. This help stabilize housing prices by taking away a lot of pressure off the price and also by helping people to stay in their current overpriced home by refinancing. If they didn’t lower the rates and provide “free money”, the market would be totally trashed. Pricing would go into a deflationary spiral that would cause people to lose all hope in real estate. That would be good for nobody. It would take at least 20 years to recover from that.

  69. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Well that’s my point. If you continue to down the path of larger and larger output gaps, you are totally screwed and mine as well give up participating in this economy and just let it crash and start over. Wages can’t continue on their current path and still have an economy to talk about in 2035. It will totally be shot from over 50 years of neglecting the engine that drives our economic engine, the consumer. It’s the equivalent of not changing your oil in your car, one day the economic engine won’t start or will blow up.

    Juice Box says:
    December 29, 2014 at 7:20 pm
    Re: #66 – wage inflation bah. How about output gap? You know all those poor souls who cannot find work? Right now it is around 2 trillion a year. There is your demand, and it ain’t closing anytime soon. We still have a generation to go, by then it will be a moot point since death solves all problems, and dying in your underwater POS is the fate of many.

  70. Liquor Luge says:

    Punkinhead should be banned from posting until he can prove he lives off Hamburg Tpk or in Brick.

  71. Liquor Luge says:

    I think Punkinhead would fit right in Kittaninny or High Point. I hear both towns have a Klavern he can join.

  72. Fabius Maximus says:

    Clot

    The laughter hurts. you know it has to be Ally Mc Coist.

    http://bettingzone.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/newcastle/next-permanent-manager

  73. Ben says:

    Everyone on this site makes 500K a year and is extremely good looking. I dont get what you are whniing about.

    This coming from the guy who grieves his property taxes every year?

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