Why is anyone surprised?

From the LA Times:

Inaccurate Zillow ‘Zestimates’ a source of conflict over home prices

WWhen “CBS This Morning” co-host Norah O’Donnell asked the chief executive of Zillow recently about the accuracy of the website’s automated property value estimates — known as Zestimates — she touched on one of the most sensitive perception gaps in American real estate.

Zillow is the most popular online real estate information site, with 73 million unique visitors in December. Along with active listings of properties for sale, it also provides information on houses that are not on the market. You can enter the address or general location in a database of millions of homes and probably pull up key information — square footage, lot size, number of bedrooms and baths, photos, taxes — plus a Zestimate.

Shoppers, sellers and buyers routinely quote Zestimates to realty agents — and to one another — as gauges of market value. If a house for sale has a Zestimate of $350,000, a buyer might challenge the sellers’ list price of $425,000. Or a seller might demand to know from potential listing brokers why they say a property should sell for just $595,000 when Zillow has it at $685,000.

Back to the question posed by O’Donnell: Are Zestimates accurate? And if they’re off the mark, how far off? Zillow CEO Spencer Rascoff answered that they’re “a good starting point” but that nationwide Zestimates have a “median error rate” of about 8%.

Whoa. That sounds high. On a $500,000 house, that would be a $40,000 disparity — a lot of money on the table — and could create problems. But here’s something Rascoff was not asked about: Localized median error rates on Zestimates sometimes far exceed the national median, which raises the odds that sellers and buyers will have conflicts over pricing. Though it’s not prominently featured on the website, at the bottom of Zillow’s home page in small type is the word “Zestimates.” This section provides helpful background information along with valuation error rates by state and county — some of which are stunners.

For example, in New York County — Manhattan — the median valuation error rate is 19.9%. In Brooklyn, it’s 12.9%. In Somerset County, Md., the rate is an astounding 42%. In some rural counties in California, error rates range as high as 26%. In San Francisco it’s 11.6%. With a median home value of $1,000,800 in San Francisco, according to Zillow estimates as of December, a median error rate at this level translates into a price disparity of $116,093.

This entry was posted in Economics, Humor, National Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

99 Responses to Why is anyone surprised?

  1. grim says:

    Hat tip Wicked

  2. grim says:

    I’ve said this many times here, and I firmly believe it to be accurate.

    Sales prices to comps can vary by about 10% due to non-quanitifyable, subjective factors, as well as situational factors associated with the buyer or seller. This is in situations when you have SOLID comps.

    So, if a house comps for $600k, I’d expect it the transaction to close with a sale price of anywhere from $570-630k. Harder to comp properties, I think the number is even higher, maybe as much as 15%, from $555-645k, a $90k variance.

    That’s just noise. I understand that my saying this will make you scream, that for a $600k house, you’ll have $60k price variation due to factors that simply can’t be quantified. It’s a huge number.

    The only situation where this doesn’t hold true is when you have identical comps, in the case of condos or townhouses, this value tends to shrink.

    I think Zillow’s number is too good to be true, 8% error rate? No way, probably closer to 15%, anything better is due to luck.

  3. grim says:

    And before you call me crazy, let me remind you that this is a market where a buyer will disregard a good deal on a house because they don’t like the interior decoration (that is not included in the purchase).

  4. Fast Eddie says:

    And before you call me crazy, let me remind you that this is a market where a buyer will disregard a good deal on a house because they don’t like the interior decoration (that is not included in the purchase).

    It’s the same reason why a seller is 15% over-priced because they can no longer smell the dog p1ss and Rheingold permeating the walls.

  5. BearsFan says:

    I just had my house appraised and it came back 40k below zillow.

  6. 30 year realtor says:

    Valuing real estate is soft science. I spend a large chunk of my time trying to put values on homes based on exterior inspections for the purpose of bidding at sheriff sales. My decisions are often based more on feel than fact.

  7. JJ says:

    Zillow is even more widely inaccurate in areas where flood insurance is required and homes vary widely in design. They will take an older cape with a basement that had sandy by the beach and compare it to a beachy looking bungalow sitting on a five foot crawl space and same sq foot with no same feet the same price. It also messes up on estate sales in poor shape. But even given that it is a very good tool.

  8. 30 year realtor says:

    Recently took a retail listing in a challenging location in Bergen County. My estimated value was $535,000 – $540,000. House was directly across the street from a freight train line and had all sorts of impact from industrial uses in the area. Condition of the house was excellent and it was more than 3000 GLA. Property received a full price offer from the first showing, $599,900. I am supposed to be an expert.

  9. Fast Eddie says:

    I went to see this one yesterday. Good L0rd, you really need to visit some of these places as pictures are so deceiving. Every room was cramped; the aroma in the place was really making me sick; the walls and doors were dirty, chipped, pock-marked; things were just so sloppy, dirty and so neglected; the exterior was shabby, worn and in need of repair in many places; the whole place was just so unappealing:

    http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1503304&dayssince=&countysearch=false

  10. grim says:

    8 – I posted my theory on main street houses a few years back, and I think it still holds. The prototypical cul-de-sac home as ideal only applies to second generation or longer term Americans. Immigrants seem to not hold this position at all, in fact they hold the exact opposite. I’ve shared the stories of new immigrants that have purposely purchased elaborate homes on main streets.

    Why?

    What’s the point of showing that you’ve made it if nobody can see?

    I can point you to many, many tear downs that are exactly of this nature. This is not conspicuous consumption, but more so driven by pride of success.

  11. 1987 condo says:

    #10… I have seen a few TV shows where this preference to be on a busy street was noted, particularly among Asian-americans

  12. chicagofinance says:

    You are crazy.

    grim says:
    February 9, 2015 at 5:59 am
    And before you call me crazy, let me remind you that this is a market where a buyer will disregard a good deal on a house because they don’t like the interior decoration (that is not included in the purchase).

  13. chicagofinance says:

    “Instead of trying to win over skeptics and opponents, both Obama and de Blasio govern as if they only represent their supporters, guaranteeing that greatness will elude them.
    No adult who ever ran a complex organization or business would behave that way. That the president and the mayor still do reflects willful ignorance.”

    http://nypost.com/2015/02/07/de-blasio-and-obamas-lack-of-experience/

  14. Ragnar says:

    Fast Eddie,
    All it takes is a team of cleaners and maybe a few thousand dollars to make all the smells and stains go away. I thought it was well understood that stink and messiness is what creates opportunity for those who can see through the surface.
    Leave “move in ready” houses for people who barely have the capital to make it to closing. They will pay a price premium in order to roll all clean-up costs into their mortgage.

  15. anon (the good one) says:

    @stiglitzian:

    Stiglitz on Greece:

    If there is a moral hazard, it is on the part of the lenders who have been bailed out repeatedly.

  16. Fast Eddie says:

    Ragnar,

    I didn’t include the decay and rot, the original kitchen and baths, the cracked toilet, the 10 x 10 bedrooms, no yard, a public trail next to the house and so on. Visit them and you’ll see.

  17. Bystander says:

    If appraisal pricing is soft science then list pricing is a soft-headed science. I told you that the sellers on my transaction started at 725k last year. I am purchasing for 570k (grim- yep, appraisal came back at 600k). Who the f told these people that their home was worth 725k? Zestimate is 560k. This is why Gary and I have been screaming for years. Starting point for 95% of homes is fantasy-greed-delusion. I had to wait a year to get a good quality home at decent price. Anyone who thinks they are up big on their 2011-2012 purchase, these people bought in 2011 and they are taking a big loss after conveyance, improvements and realtor fees are factored in. Ignore the parroting media, the market still sucks for many wannabe sellers.

  18. 1987 condo says:

    #16…10×10 bedrooms are a factor of 1950-s and 60-s construction. My 17 year old daughter is in 9×10. Only new and more expensive homes have “normal” size bedrooms. My daughter uses another small bedroom as her “study” room…

  19. Juice Box says:

    re: # 1 7 – Bubble price or die. It will be feet first for many bag holders.

  20. Libturd in Union says:

    Zillow is pretty bad. Every time a home sells withing a perimeter of about 10 houses of mine, regardless of the characteristics of the house that sold, it impacts how they estimate the price of mine. A real mansion of a home sold recently two houses down from mine but on Ridgewood Avenue. It sent my Zestimate up $100K. Yet that home is so far from being a comp to mine. Valuing homes is a piece of cake. Look at recent sales for comparable homes. It’s not rocket science. The fact that only realtors have access to this information in an easy quantifiable manner sure is a nice tie in to us continuing to need to use them. No? Not that I’m saying there aren’t other useful things that they do, especially in regards to bringing all of the necessary parties together for a closing as well. Of course, if you have a relationship with a realtor, you should be able to get this data with ease. Zillow data really is so far off that it’s nearly useless IMO. But it is fun to dream.

  21. anon (the good one) says:

    “(Bloomberg) —

    The private-banking unit of HSBC Holdings Plc made significant profits for years handling secret accounts whose holders included drug cartels, arms dealers, tax evaders and fugitive diamond merchants, according to a report released Sunday by an international news organization.”

    @business:
    Leaked list shows HSBC’s Swiss arm helped Putin allies, drug lords and fugitives hide assets

  22. Grim says:

    It’s not uncommon in 50s-80s houses for bedrooms to get smaller as the count gets higher. What I mean is that square footage tends to be static, adding the 4th bedroom means the other 3, and living spaces, get smaller.

    If you don’t need 4 bedrooms (Forget the bullshit guest room that is used one night a year), don’t do it.

    Very common in older Nj splits and colonials. They are all 1700-2000 square, too small to fit 4 bedrooms into without something else giving.

  23. Grim says:

    You can’t get 4 bedrooms that are workable until you get to around 2500 square feet.

  24. Fast Eddie says:

    Bystander,

    Who the f told these people that their home was worth 725k?

    They suffer from pudgy muppet syndrome.

  25. Libturd in Union says:

    “Anyone who thinks they are up big on their 2011-2012 purchase, these people bought in 2011 and they are taking a big loss after conveyance, improvements and realtor fees are factored in.”

    Point in fact. We paid $423K, sunk in 50K in improvements and are now Zestimated at $675,000. If I were to guess, we should be closer to $600K if not even a little lower. It’s a shame we like the home so much. I could have flipped this house for a quick 100K immediately after buying it with little effort based on our banks assessments. But I didn’t want to spend another three years looking again.

  26. nwnj says:

    Other than the master(or special needs) where you would expect a large bed, can anyone tell me the advantage of large bedrooms? What is going on in there that requires a lot of space?

  27. 1987 condo says:

    #26..I believe the ability to have more crap on the floor…

  28. Fast Eddie says:

    No yard at all and on the right side of the house was a ridge or cliff 30 feet high. It was the other people’s property and their house looked like it was on top of this house. But the house again was lived in but not loved. You know what I mean? After you buy the thing, you’d have some real work to do. This was not what I expected from a cul de sac location. The house looked like it got stuffed into a corner. I’d give this one a 6.7 on the GRF scale:

    http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1503496&dayssince=&countysearch=false

  29. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    I guess Boston is getting shut down today. I can’t imagine that much snow.

  30. Xolepa says:

    Oldest son is now looking for a home to be lived in several years while he attends Residency program in Boston. Buying near Boston is cheaper than renting. He and the Mrs are looking in Quincy. Any comments, expat?

    BTW, one of the FCUs that I belong to, he is now a member. They got them pre-approved for a $500k mortgage at 3% for 7 years fixed. One house they looked at in the $400k range would be about $2k monthly including taxes. Taxes? oh yeah, in the 4k range.

  31. JJ says:

    Indians the busier the street the better.

    1987 condo says:
    February 9, 2015 at 9:10 am
    #10… I have seen a few TV shows where this preference to be on a busy street was noted, particularly among Asian-americans

  32. Bystander says:

    Lib,

    No doubt you got a great deal. Your patience and tact will be rewarded on the future resale. My comment was based on observation about other people in my age bracket with small children. Many bought in Stamford or Norwalk with intention to sell in 4 years once kids reach school age. Those districts are terrible but I hear it weekly “oh we bought in 2011 can sell it for 80k more”. BS..can’t wait to see lil Hunter in his banger rags heading off to kindergarten when you can’t afford the loss. I bought with intention that I may never make money and protect my family from needing to move bc of schools or house size. Gotta be in it for long haul.

  33. Fast Eddie says:

    “oh we bought in 2011 can sell it for 80k more”.

    This is one of the key talking points in closing a deal. Convince the potential buyer how much they’ll make on a sale of their “appreciating” asset. Everyone is a real estate tycoon until they face reality.

  34. Libturd in Union says:

    Ok Bystander. Purchasing a home you don’t plan to live in for a minimum of 10 years is stupid anyhow. Plus, one must be flexible about timing of the sale. The housing market moves a like a slug. It could take a decade or two before it’s a good time to sell. Not sure why people fear renting so much. In almost all cases, it’s a better deal than owning. Heck, I continue to be astounded by people who purchase homes only to move again three or four years later. It must cost these people a fortune. And I see it time and time again in Montclair and Glen Ridge.

  35. Ragnar says:

    nwnj, 26
    Just as when you have a pool table, you need to allocate six feet around each side for the pool cue, for those of us who are well endowed, the bedroom needs to be much bigger than the bed to ensure proper stick clearance.

  36. Libturd in Union says:

    Rags,

    Surprised you didn’t try to work in the space needed for the high heals to lock into the oar locks?

  37. Grim says:

    Took us 3 years to settle in, I can’t imagine moving every 5-7 years. 20 year purchase horizon is the minimum.

  38. Grim says:

    10 not 20

  39. Comrade Nom Deplume, basking in the moment, middle finger extended . . . says:

    [30] xolepa,

    I used to live in Quincy.

  40. Xolepa says:

    (40) Well, Nom, please comment.

  41. Comrade Nom Deplume, basking in the moment, middle finger extended . . . says:

    [40] xolepa

    Quincy is a small city. It has a number of neighborhoods and these can vary widely. When I was living there, Marina Bay was a very popular development. It was built on a former airport. However, it wasn’t very close to anything like the downtown, so it was somewhat self-contained and may be a bit dated now.

    Quincy is very convenient if you need to commute into Boston on the redline. However, commuting by car into Boston sucks.

    Some of the nice neighborhoods were in the Wollaston section where I used to live. I also lived on Sea St. just off the end of Quincy shore Drive. Some of the other nice neighborhoods tended to be in the northern end of town near the Adams homestead. In addition, neighborhoods near Braintree should be pretty nice. From my recollection, the area just northwest of downtown the nicest. Areas near the shipyard or Weymouth were not as nice. A place near a major artery also wouldn’t be all that great. One thing I do recall about Quincy is that when you drive around, you can get a pretty good feel for the neighborhoods. It isn’t as if drug dealing or bad things are hidden behind windowboxes and well manicured lawns. If a neighborhood is lower class, it looks it.

    When I was living there, the Asian community in Quincy was starting to grow exponentially. This was causing a great deal of distress to old-timers there. They did seem to concentrate in certain neighborhoods, and this would be pretty evident from the shops in those areas. From my recollection, this did not bring an area down or raise it up. The Asian newcomers were pretty much of the same social strata as the people they replaced. But Quincy is a heavily Asian community

    I cannot comment on the schools in Quincy. I seem to recall that the two high schools were okay, but nothing special.

    Finally, I haven’t lived in Quincy, or visited there, in nearly 2 decades. So this information is necessarily quite dated.

  42. Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:

    Speaking of Asians, we may be losing our wealthy, but we can certainly replace them.

    http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/01/luxury/wealthy-tax-residence/index.html?iid=EL

  43. Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:

    And the year-end Expat list is now overdue by over a week. They were trending for another record year of renunciations, and when the report is late, that doesn’t portend well for the administration.

  44. Fast Eddie says:

    This one I believe is in Attorney Review – 6 years on the market and listed at a 33% price reduction from a May, 2007 purchase price. I posted this one yesterday and stated that it has a lot of charm. It is, however, in a very tough spot and has some legitimate issues but if you like one half of original house built in the 1800s joined with an upgrade and addition, then here ya go:

    http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1502349&openhouse=true&dayssince=&countysearch=false

  45. JJ says:

    Why is the listing agent wearing a Pajama top in her picture?

    Fast Eddie says:
    February 9, 2015 at 11:57 am
    This one I believe is in Attorney Review – 6 years on the market and listed at a 33% price reduction from a May, 2007 purchase price. I posted this one yesterday and stated that it has a lot of charm. It is, however, in a very tough spot and has some legitimate issues but if you like one half of original house built in the 1800s joined with an upgrade and addition, then here ya go:

    http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1502349&openhouse=true&dayssince=&countysearch=false

  46. Xolepa says:

    Thanks, Nom. One house they looked at was near Cunningham Park and a golf course. That one is #1 on their list.

  47. Juice Box says:

    Like I said feet first. Pick any town on Zillow and change the criteria to FSBO.

    Here is one by me listed at $825. Pics are actually from 15 years ago they have dates right on them, just look at the pic of the driveway old Cadillacs and a rusty van.

    Place is probably 10x worse than these 15 year old pics.

    http://www.zillow.com/homes/fsbo/39336249_zpid/pricea_sort/40.391731,-74.006739,40.288758,-74.150419_rect/12_zm/0_mmm/

  48. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    I don’t know, putting money into a investment account seems like a better plan to me but the Mrs told me that owning a house would show that we are stable, so I purchased a house. The lack of money in my savings account doesn’t affect my feelings of stability. LOL
    ——-
    Is Buying a House Still the Best Way to Build Wealth?

    Ricardo and Denise Cabrera were so burned by the last housing crash that it is hard to believe they’re vying to become homeowners again.

    In 2005, the couple bought a starter home for $490,000 just outside of Los Angeles through a no-money-down, interest-only loan. By 2009, after the market crash, that same home was worth roughly $150,000 less. The couple decided to do a short sale to get out from underneath their mortgage. The only problem? It prevented them from pulling any equity out of the house; just as bad, it marred their high credit scores. “We walked away with nothing,” Denise says.

    Now, after five years of renting, the Cabreras are once again putting their faith (and savings) into the housing market—this time, through a 10 percent-down mortgage on a five-bedroom, Cape Cod-style house in the San Fernando Valley, on the edge of Los Angeles. The seller accepted the couple’s bid of $530,000, after receiving roughly 20 other offers, Ricardo says. With the property now in escrow, the Cabreras and their children, ages 9, 5, and 4, hope to move in by the end of February. “For me, the house is something we can pass on to the kids,” Ricardo says. “Paying rent is just like throwing your money away.”

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/02/is-buying-a-house-still-the-best-way-to-build-wealth/385243/

  49. joyce says:

    “Paying rent [for a place to live] is just like throwing your money away.”

    I guess so is paying for food to eat.

  50. grim says:

    Why is the listing agent wearing a Pajama top in her picture?

    Isn’t that the actress from WKRP in Cincinnati?

  51. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    It prevented them from pulling out any equity….DUH

    This couple got an “no money down, interest-only” loan. That loan isn’t for everyone but its probably the only way they could get into the house. That loan is perfect for people who recieve a good portion of their pay via a bonus. That’s the only way you can pay down the principle.

  52. Libturd in Union says:

    Check out this guys realtors photo.

    http://www.mikewondka.com/

  53. Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:

    [48] xol,

    don’t know the park name and there aren’t many golf courses in Quincy proper.

    Is this on the Milton line?

  54. chicagofinance says:

    I tried to comprehend WTF this even means…….by definition, if you are in need of a short sale…..also, the article takes pains to point out that a home is a forced savings vehicle…..not if you pull money out the second the value increases….

    FKA 2010 Buyer says:
    February 9, 2015 at 12:48 pm
    It prevented them from pulling out any equity….DUH

  55. Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:

    xolepa,

    Just as luck would have it, a lead story on Boston.com

    http://www.boston.com/news/weather/2015/02/09/red-line-train-stuck-between-quincy-center-quincy-adams/yq78bCRa8woE9Yhf0ouhEM/story.html?p1=feature_stack_1_hp

    From my recollection, this happened a fair amount. I recall a few times that the Red Line was stuck for one reason or another. So it would seem that the reliability hasn’t improved.

    FWIW, Red Line is no less reliable than other lines (Green lines are the worst because they are trolleys). But this sort of thing seemed to dog me (spent a fair amount of time stuck on DC Metro so it isn’t just a Boston thing).

  56. Libturd in Union says:

    Hey Grim. Are there any stats on the average length of time homes are occupied in our area? Especially, more recent purchases. I’m guessing retirees who age in place skew the numbers over the long-term.

  57. grim says:

    From the NAR 2013 profile of buyers and sellers – for NJ sellers the average is 11 years.

  58. Comrade Nom Deplume, who needs to stop screwing around and get back to work says:
  59. grim says:

    Looking for the data now, but it’s a bimodal distribution. I think there is a bump somewhere around 5 years or so, a dip, and then a second peak with a long tail.

  60. grim says:

    There was also a stat from the NAHB about housing turnover which was quite good. For the Northeast it’s estimated that it takes 22 years to turn over 50% of the housing stock. I like that stat better because it provides a more realistic context overall (than saying something like 11 years on average). This is the highest of any region.

  61. grim says:

    I read the bimodal distribution as saying something like, if you stay there for at least 5 years, you’ll probably stay there for 15.

  62. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    I just can’t imagine the amount of snow they are experiencing up there in Boston. I was reading that some people are running out of places to push the plowed snow.

  63. Libturd in Union says:

    Thanks Grim. Pretty interesting. It does seem like the mode may be the best number to use. Anecdotally, it seems like the distribution is heaviest either under five years or over twenty years. And of course, there are those who choose to die in place and skew the averages terribly. I have two sets of neighbors like that. Many of the other homes seem to keep turning over.

  64. Libturd in Union says:

    1993 was like that around here. I remember the dump trucks dumping snow into the Hudson.

  65. grim says:

    By the way, inventory and duration of ownership are inversely correlated. That might be obvious, maybe not. At the bubble peak duration of ownership was at record lows, and increased significantly since.

  66. Libturd in Union says:

    96 was bad too if I recall correctly.

  67. grim says:

    Here were the numbers for NJ for 2012, this is a little different from what I remember, I may be recalling an earlier year.

    1 year or less – 5%
    2 to 3 years – 4%
    4 to 5 years – 7%
    6 to 7 years – 10%
    8 to 10 years – 19%
    11 to 15 years – 20%
    16 to 20 years – 14%
    21 years or more – 22%
    Median – 11 Years

  68. Xolepa says:

    Nom, I don’t think it is that close to Milton. It is about a mile from 93 and from Blue Hills reservation, at least according to the map.

  69. grim says:

    And I really hate when the tiers are not equally spaced, so I’ll do that here:

    0-5 years – 16%
    6-10 years – 29%
    11-15 years – 20%
    16-20 years – 14%
    21+ years – 22%

  70. grim says:

    NAHB has a fun set of “trade up tables” which are estimates of survivalship by purchase period for buyers who purchased a move-up home.

    It echos what we would believe to happen.

    For everyone that purchased in 2003-2005, it’s expected that 50% of them will sell in the first 13 years.

    For everyone that purchased in 2007-2009, it’s expected that it will take 22 years for 50% of them to sell.

  71. grim says:

    Which raises a very interesting point, homeownership duration of buyers of “move up” homes is significantly longer than first-time buyer duration. Something like 20% longer for the trade-ups.

  72. grim says:

    Unemployment for workers with a college degree or higher is now under 3%.

    http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2015/02/more-employment-graphs-duration-of.html

    What’s the problem?

  73. grim says:

    Unemployment rate for high school dropouts is 8.5%.

    Any wonder why there is income inequality in the US? Answer is simple, drop out of high school, you’ll be poor for life. Too much credit is given to greedy CEOs.

  74. Fast Eddie says:

    For everyone that purchased in 2007-2009, it’s expected that it will take 22 years for 50% of them to sell.

    What’s the number for those that purchased from 2005 – 2007?

  75. grim says:

    In the middle of the two, 17 years.

  76. joyce says:

    75
    “”” Note: This says nothing about the quality of jobs – as an example, a college graduate working at minimum wage would be considered “employed”. “””

  77. Ragnar says:

    Those greedy CEOs made high school kids take drugs, drop out of school, and have babies. Because they didn’t offer them the incentive of $50,000/yr jobs just for graduating high school and showing up.

  78. Ragnar says:

    Libturd, 54
    A bulldog with a halo right by his side. Is that the realtor’s dead dog that has now come back as a dog-angel to help him with his real estate business, as both a business consultant and ethical advisor?

  79. grim says:

    78 – Sure, but how you do rationalize the improvement in U-6? I would imagine the recovery in U-6 wouldn’t be nearly as strong if what you were saying were the case here. U-6 has improved from 17.1% to 11.3% – that’s substantial. I’m not going to use the word “trickle” here. 2-3 years ago everyone pointed to U-6 as the unequivocal metric that the recovery was not taking place, until it improved, and now nobody mentions it.

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/U6RATE

  80. grim says:

    There was an interesting piece done by Dave Altig comparing post-recession job growth:

    http://macroblog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c834f53ef019104ac0aea970c-500wi

    The jobs gained back in this recovery don’t at all look to be that much different from the previous post-recession periods.

    What is different though, is where the wage growth is (kick ass animated gif):

    http://macroblog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c834f53ef0192ac75716f970d-popup

  81. joyce says:

    grim,
    I think the main point is the quality of jobs (as measured by wages/incomes associated with them) is not ideal.

  82. Ron Jermany says:

    66: Lib,

    Remember it well. We were married a few days after the (then) blizzard of the century. Good times.

  83. leftwing says:

    Cringe-worthy.

    Can’t even watch Obama. Who in State is (not) advising him?

    How can you continually refer to the German Chancellor as “Angela” like she’s the secretary down the hall? Forget the German pre-occupation with titles. Forget the sexist overtones (since he continuously referred to “Mr Putin”). Really? Six years in office and he can’t address the leader of the fifth largest economy in the world with respect, especially as he wants something from her?

    Piker.

  84. Libturd in Union says:

    He is Merkelculating to save dollars.

  85. Liquor Luge says:

    Bojangles is worse than a piker. He’s a piker who is filled with the false confidence that can only come from a smashing level of ignorance.

  86. Fabius Maximus says:

    #85 Leftwing

    I have to invoke Bush and one of his finer moments. http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/bushvideos/v/bushgrope.htm

    I would say that first names are a good thing here. Polite relations despite the fact we intercepted her cell phone calls.

  87. leftwing says:

    They’re all useless. 320 million people in this country and we come up with the likes Obama, Bush, Blumenthal as leaders? Something fundamentally wrong here.

  88. chicagofinance says:

    looks as if there will be a an unexpected first time unemployment claim…….
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-teen-fired-f-k-a-pizza-shop-job-tweets-article-1.2108603

  89. Grim says:

    Great example of why minimum wage needs to be higher. Clearly the low salaries are not sufficent motivation for that prospective employee.

    Absolutely CEO material.

  90. Comrade Nom Deplume with extended middle finger to the haters. says:

    Expat, I’m hearing that the T will be shut down thru tomorrow.

  91. Liquor Luge says:

    What we need is a national program of eugenics to keep defectives like this pizza shop chick from even being born.

  92. Liquor Luge says:

    Boy, her mom and dad did a whale of a job…

  93. BearsFan says:

    I remember 93 storm. We knew on a Wednesday that we had the entire following week off of school. Nuts.

  94. chi says:

    Eugenics is that book by L. Ron Hubbard, yes?

  95. Liquor Luge says:

    If you have to ask, you should be sterilized. ;)

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