Most expensive dirt in the country

From the Star Ledger:

Look down, N.J., the land you live on is the most valuable in America, study finds

New Jersey’s land is worth more per acre than any other state, according to a report, and the state’s overall land value ranks among the top in the nation.

The value of an acre of land in New Jersey, excluding buildings or other structures, clocks in at $196,410, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of a new federal study. Only three other states — Rhode Island, Connecticut and Massachusetts — have land worth more than $100,000 per acre, according to the report.

The report shows the top five states for land value per acre are:

New Jersey: $196,410
Rhode Island: $133,730
Connecticut: $128,820
Massachusetts: $102,210
Maryland: $75,430

The report was based on findings from a paper released earlier this month by the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis. The paper notes that New Jersey and Rhode Island are the two most developed states, with roughly 31 percent of land developed in both states.

The paper estimated land values for the contiguous 48 states and the District of Columbia and found the 1.89 billion acres of land that make up that territory are worth about $23 trillion.

The more than 4.7 million acres of land in New Jersey is worth $930 billion, according to the paper. Just four other states had greater land value overall, the paper shows. Those states are: California, Texas, New York and Florida.

This entry was posted in Economics, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

133 Responses to Most expensive dirt in the country

  1. grim says:

    The number might be OK for an NJ average, but $196k is too low for most of the North and a good part of Central NJ and the shore. On the resale market, you don’t need to look for to find closed sales more than double that figure.

  2. Juice Box says:

     “1.89 billion acres of land that make up that territory are worth about $23 trillion.”

    Sounds a bit low, mineral rights and all.

  3. Juice Box says:

    I have seen a few lots for sale on wetlands that you would have a hard time getting permits to build on going for 200k +

  4. Wily Millenial says:

    $23T is a lot, but at today’s rates I’d be a fool not to buy it. Would you take $22.8T?

  5. chicagofinance says:

    Wetlands sounds like one of the clubs JJ used to crash in the 80’s……

    Juice Box says:
    April 30, 2015 at 6:22 am
    I have seen a few lots for sale on wetlands that you would have a hard time getting permits to build on going for 200k +

  6. anon (the good one) says:

    don’t know about the shore, but for north/central nj double the price and still very difficult to find a nice lot

    nice: at least.35, no highway, no yellow lines, flat, no power lines, no flooding zone

    grim says:
    April 30, 2015 at 5:37 am
    The number might be OK for an NJ average, but $196k is too low for most of the North and a good part of Central NJ

  7. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Anyone complaining about nj house prices and taxes, please read this lead article. This state has the most valuable land in America. Is it really that surprising to see nj paying more in taxes(even on a percentage basis) than the majority of the other states? Why is this such a big question mark to most people? Just follow the money.

    For all the people complaining about raising the taxes on millionaires in nj, please don’t complain about your taxes. The only chance in hell you have of lowering taxes in this state is shipping out all the wealth by raising taxes on them. It will drop the price of real estate along with everything else. You want cheap taxes like Alabama, well the demographics in your state population has to match Alabama’s along with the services that state/local govt provide. Is this what you really want? 1oo,ooo dollar homes with 3oo dollar a year taxes because you top out at 50,000 a year if you are lucky enough to find a job? The road to nowhere, but hey, let’s jump for joy because our real estate is cheap along with our property taxes. Meanwhile, I have no chance in hell to move up the social ladder. I guess it’s ideal for lazy unmotivated individuals, but I rather have the high property taxes and expensive real estate if it means I have chance to make serious money.

    Based on the stats, how many people are killing it in NJ’s economy. How many people are killing it in Alabama? But let’s all rush to Alabama in the name of cheap houses and cheap property taxes, not opportunity.

  8. Comrade Nom Deplume, the loan snark says:

    A HS classmate, and part time pastor, who lives in Charm City posted this last night:

    “Be careful and prayerful no matter what part of Baltimore you live in. I live in the Hamilton section. I arrived home from work around 9:45, got out of my car and was confronted by a young man who demanded my keys. I said no. He punched me and I was ready to fight until he pulled out a knife. I gave up my keys and then was ambushed from behind by a 2nd guy who put me in a choke hold. A third guy took the rest of my belongings then they took off. I am sore but not hurt, thank you Jesus! Lord have mercy on them”

    He’s a lot more forgiving than I would have been. But I guess he had to check his privilege, right anon? After all, they are disillusioned, these poor, downtrodden waifs.

  9. anon (the good one) says:

    good point. many repubs around here need to get a job

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    April 30, 2015 at 8:21 am

    lazy unmotivated individuals

  10. The Great Pumpkin says:

    My advice to David Chang: don’t invest in ‘food delivery startups.’ Just make your existing restaurant staff look younger, hire some data scientists, and call yourself a tech company. It’ll do wonders for your valuation.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/briansolomon/2015/04/29/call-food-delivery-startups-by-their-real-name-restaurants/

  11. AG says:

    8,

    Nom,

    You have to give them room to purge.

  12. AG says:

    Dont be the hooker. Be the pimp.

    I’m the white version of Al Sharpton.

  13. Libturd in Union says:

    Pretty excellent credit card offer if you are willing to fly on United. No fee first year, 55,000 miles and two club passes for 3K in spending in 3 months. Plus, a $50 statement credit. That’s about $1,200 in compensation not counting the free bags and priority perks so that’s about a 40% credit back on your spending. Thank me later. Info below.

    http://www.mymoneyblog.com/new-chase-united-mileageplus-explorer-card-40000-bonus-miles-improved-benefits.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Mymoneyblog+%28My+Money+Blog%29

  14. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    I like having Big Brother monitoring my emails and phone calls. Not sure what the big deal is.

    Much of NSA bulk surveillance as you’ve known it may soon end

    Don’t look now, but much of the National Security Agency bulk metadata collection that stirred so much controversy in the wake of the Edwards Snowden revelations might — just might — be about to come to an end. While civil libertarians still worry about various aspects of the program continuing, this would be no small achievement.

    Yesterday a bipartisan group of Senators — led by Republican Mike Lee and Democrat Patrick Leahy — introduced the U.S.A. Freedom Act, a measure that would put an end to the NSA’s bulk collection under Section 215 of the Patriot Act. Things could go wrong from here on out, but it’s a possibility that something like this is going to end up becoming law soon enough — meaning the left-right alliance that has come together against bulk surveillance just might win a partial victory.

    The reason the U.S.A. Freedom Act just might pass is because the alternative is unclear.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/04/29/much-of-nsa-bulk-surveillance-as-youve-known-it-may-soon-end/

  15. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    Developer Jared Kushner ‘very bullish’ on Jersey City real estate

    New York developer Jared Kushner tells the New York Times in a new interview that he’s “very bullish” on Jersey City real estate, calling it an “affordable outlet” for people who work in New York City.

    Kushner, who is at the helm of two projects in Journal Square, told the Times he hasn’t submitted his plans yet for one of them, the former MEPT property now called One Journal Square, and has put his redevelopment of the old Jersey Journal headquarters on “the back burner.”

    http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2015/04/developer_kushner_very_bullish_on_jersey_city_real.html

  16. Pete says:

    #13,

    Lib, thanks for the heads up on that. Is there any reason I should sign up and add my wife as an authorized user rather then just having her apply seperately and getting the bonus as well?

  17. Libturd in Union says:

    Not that I can think of, but you can still make each other authorized users even if you have cards in your own name. I do this with Gator all the time. I did this deal last year, but will do it under Gator’s name this year. You can only do Chase deals once every 24 months, so by rotating between Gator and me, we get our free bags covered and keep our mileage points active longer. This may be a good reason to stagger it.

  18. JJ says:

    All wives are “authorized users”

    Pete says:
    April 30, 2015 at 9:52 am
    #13,

    Lib, thanks for the heads up on that. Is there any reason I should sign up and add my wife as an authorized user rather then just having her apply seperately and getting the bonus as well?

  19. Libturd in Union says:

    “All wives are “authorized users”

    So true.

  20. anon (the good one) says:

    already have it cause i mostly fly United

    my Equinox monthly membership is charged on this card

    Libturd in Union says:
    April 30, 2015 at 9:30 am
    Pretty excellent credit card offer if you are willing to fly on United. No fee first year, 55,000 miles and two club passes for 3K in spending in 3 months. Plus, a $50 statement credit. That’s about $1,200 in compensation not counting the free bags and priority perks so that’s about a 40% credit back on your spending. Thank me later. Info below.

  21. JJ says:

    I have a free membership to Equinox in exchange for posing for some of their brochures and ads.

    anon (the good one) says:
    April 30, 2015 at 10:26 am
    already have it cause i mostly fly United

    my Equinox monthly membership is charged on this card

    Libturd in Union says:
    April 30, 2015 at 9:30 am
    Pretty excellent credit card offer if you are willing to fly on United. No fee first year, 55,000 miles and two club passes for 3K in spending in 3 months. Plus, a $50 statement credit. That’s about $1,200 in compensation not counting the free bags and priority perks so that’s about a 40% credit back on your spending. Thank me later. Info below.

  22. Libturd in Union says:

    I don’t have an Equinox membership. If I did, I would probably use it about as often as the seasonal equinox comes around.

  23. chicagofinance says:

    What about Mormons?

    JJ says:
    April 30, 2015 at 10:13 am
    All wives are “authorized users”

    Pete says:
    April 30, 2015 at 9:52 am
    #13,

    Lib, thanks for the heads up on that. Is there any reason I should sign up and add my wife as an authorized user rather then just having her apply seperately and getting the bonus as well?

  24. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    This must be prevalent in other states. What areas in NJ have not been developed that’s close, well somewhat reasonable to the city? Who is trading up along with a longer commute?

    Homebuilding Still Hampered by Tight Credit

    WASHINGTON — Homeownership hit its lowest point in 25 years, according to recent data, in another sign that the housing sector continues to be the laggard during this economic recovery.

    Though home prices have started to rise, new home construction has remained low as builders have struggled to gain momentum due to tight credit and shortages of developed lots and skilled labor.

    Following the housing bust, new home construction fell to 445,000 units in 2009, the lowest level since the government started tracking housing starts in 1959.
    Single family starts used to average around 1.2 million in the late 1990s and early 2000s. They reached 648,000 units in 2014 — half of what is considered normal.

    “Years of underproduction have left us with a housing shortage and rising housing costs,” said Lawrence Yun, chief economist at the National Association of Realtors, said at an industry conference on April 21. “People are getting squeezed on housing prices and rents.”

    The under production is mainly due to the withering of the building industry’s infrastructure. Home construction peaked in 2006 when builders employed 3.4 million workers. By January 2011, that number had fallen to 2 million. Lumber mills closed, prices on building materials spiked and many construction workers moved to the oil and gas fields of Texas and North Dakota to find jobs.

    “There is a significant lack of first-time homebuyers,” said David Crowe, chief economist at the National Association of Home Builders, during the same conference.

    A great deal of demand for new homes comes from trade-up buyers that sell their existing home to first-time buyers. “Without that ladder effect, the builders simply don’t have the demand out there to build more homes,” Crowe said.

    http://www.nationalmortgagenews.com/news/origination/homebuilding-still-hampered-by-tight-credit-1049954-1.html?zkPrintable=true

  25. grim says:

    I like the United card, it’s my primary. United is also my primary airline and I fly a lot.

    People rag on United, my biggest complaint is the new planes don’t have screens. An really, I’m just too lazy to load a movie on my tablet.

    Between the card spending and corporate travel miles, I rarely pay for a personal airline ticket. I usually do about 75k flight miles a year – add the status bonuses to that, plus the other programs that are crediting me United miles, and card spending (I basically charge everything), and it equates to 4 or 5 free tickets every year. I usually wait until we have at least 3 tickets, or 3 and an upgrade, then plan a vacation or trip.

    If you are just a casual user, the annual fee in year 2 is probably a killer in terms of ROI. I think the club passes are generally worthless in terms of ROI. The free luggage is a nice benefit, but if you are paying $195 for it, it’s not quite free. Earlier zone boarding? Eh. There are plenty of times when I walked on the plane just before the doors closed, just because I didn’t feel like dealing with the cattle call – if you don’t have a carry on, I don’t know why you wouldn’t just wait until last call to walk on. Get on with Zone 1 and you are sitting around for 30 minutes before they even close the door.

  26. grim says:

    My 2.5 year old has logged more first class miles in the past year than I have.

  27. grim says:

    Only used my passes twice in the past 3 or 4 years. I seem to always get stranded in airports that don’t have United clubs.

    Once in Denver, craziest thunderstorm every, in a crazy airport to be in a thunderstorm in (that teepee roof thing). And once in Newark, where I met up with a friend who just happened to be in the airport, so we got a few drinks. That doesn’t even count, who bothers showing up early to hang out in the lounge?

  28. Libturd in Union says:

    I rag on United because their customer service sucks. All airlines have similar weather and mechanical delays. How they handle them is a whole other story. I’ve logged 400,000 miles on United/Continental alone.

  29. chicagofinance says:

    you

    grim says:
    April 30, 2015 at 12:29 pm
    That doesn’t even count, who bothers showing up early to hang out in the lounge?

  30. Libturd in Union says:

    I only use the lounge for delays. For some reason unbeknownst to me, Gator was sent one of those Amex Platinum invites. Though they didn’t wave the $400 club fee, there was a spend $2K over the first 3 months and you got enough points for $1,000 worth of gift cards. This card is nice because it gets you into any club. Also, they reimburse you for PreTSA application (which we will both apply for) as well as $100 or so per year in onboard fees such as drinks, wifi, etc. It also came with free Boingo membership which is pretty cool. As usual, we’ll cancel it after 12 months before it renews. We are eligible for the British Airways deal again, once they reannounce it. Looking forward to that trip.

  31. Ragnar says:

    Lack of upward mobility is wound self-inflicted by those who see themselves as victims, not found in a number of immigrant and minority groups, says a black professor:
    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/373621/upwardly-mobile-immigrants-thomas-sowell

  32. anon (the one good) says:

    @MMFlint:
    Imprison u, shoot u, sever your spine, crush your larynx, send u to war, keep u poor, call u a thug, not let u vote. But u can sing for us.

  33. Now they’re studying what I’ve known for years.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/millennials-could-damage-u-economy-100000115.html

    A new study finds that Millennials, who will dominate the U.S. labor market for the next 50 years, may face another problem: They’re less prepared for today’s job market than many of their international peers, putting them (and the country) at a distinct disadvantage in an increasingly global economy.

    A recent report by the Educational Testing Service (ETS) examined data from the Programme for the International Assessment of Adult Competencies (PIACC), which showed that American millennials are badly lagging behind in numeracy, literacy and problem-solving skills. Experts can only speculate on the reason for the skills gap, but the report warns that the consequences of such relatively low scores could be serious for American competiveness and could have an impact on the U.S. both socially and politically.

    The study shows that even our top-performing millennials are not measuring up to their counterparts overseas. Further, the gap between America’s highest- and lowest-performing workers is among the largest. The study suggests that such a disparity can lead to dire consequences, including “mistrust in government, decreased civic engagement, increased rates of incarceration, poor health, obesity, addiction and more”

  34. Among the 22 participating countries, U.S millennials 18 to 34 years old ranked 21st in numeracy — only Spanish millennials had lower scores. In literacy, half scored below the minimum proficiency level, ahead of only Spain and Italy. For problem solving in technology-rich environments, 56 percent of American millennials met the minimum standards, behind every other nation.

  35. grim says:

    33 – We opted out of taking the test, no worries. Our kids deserve better than to be compared globally. Does Montclair know about this? Someone should organize a protest or a Facebook post or something.

  36. The Great Pumpkin says:

    31- I respect Sowell, but he is making a comparison based on apples and oranges. When you are born in a helpless setting, with everyone you know in the same hopeless situation, who is going to teach you to do better? Who will be your role model? Much different to be born into families that have been poor for generations than it is to leave some wealth behind and move to another country and start from the bottom. Starting at the bottom after moving to another country doesn’t mean you are anything like the generations of poor living in that country. It’s not the same, sorry.

    “Amy Chua and Jed Rubenfeld write about America. But similar patterns can be found in England, where the white underclass seems to be stuck at the bottom, while low-income non-white immigrant children outperform them in the schools, just as Asian immigrant children outperform black underclass children in America. Those in the media, in politics, and in academia who seem determined to blame American society for individuals and groups who do not rise would be hard pressed to explain why immigrants of various colors come in at the bottom and proceed to rise, both in the schools and in the economy — on both sides of the Atlantic. It would probably never occur to those who are eager to blame “society” that it is they and their welfare-state ideology that have, for generations, burdened the underclass with a vision of hopeless victimhood that immigrants have been spared. By the time various immigrant groups have been here for generations, they have already risen, despite the welfare-state ideology that says they cannot rise. That so many in the media and in academia who proclaim the end of social mobility in America leave out the fact that data they cite do not include various immigrant groups tells you all you need to know about them.”

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/373621/upwardly-mobile-immigrants-thomas-sowell

  37. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You do realize that these other nations do not test everyone. They are only testing their most talented students. What if the United States did this? Only took the scores from our ap students? What would be the result. Don’t pay attention to headlines comparing test scores of kids living in different countries. It’s pure bull shi!. It’s not a fair comparison, so it’s useless.

    The Original NJ ExPat says:
    April 30, 2015 at 1:37 pm
    Among the 22 participating countries, U.S millennials 18 to 34 years old ranked 21st in numeracy — only Spanish millennials had lower scores. In literacy, half scored below the minimum proficiency level, ahead of only Spain and Italy. For problem solving in technology-rich environments, 56 percent of American millennials met the minimum standards, behind every other nation.

  38. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Is everyone taking the same test? What kind of test can you use to measure how smart an individual is? How, if people are smart in different ways. A test is biased by whoever created it.

    grim says:
    April 30, 2015 at 1:40 pm
    33 – We opted out of taking the test, no worries. Our kids deserve better than to be compared globally. Does Montclair know about this? Someone should organize a protest or a Facebook post or something.

  39. Blumpkin – Read the article again and sound out words as best you can. Some words that are all capital letters which you may not recognize may be what is called an “acronym”. We’ll cover that in a future lesson.

    Is everyone taking the same test? What kind of test can you use to measure how smart an individual is? How, if people are smart in different ways. A test is biased by whoever created it.

  40. Grim says:

    That study is worthless garbage.

    Any foreign millennial worth their weight is going to end up in the states. It’s not the millennials here right now that matter, it’s the ones who end up here that matter.

    Hasn’t it always been this way?

    Besides, today’s millenials are smarter than all previous generations, period.

  41. Grim says:

    State of NJ’s GDP is bigger than Sweden.

  42. Fast Eddie says:

    Besides, today’s millenials are smarter than all previous generations, period.

    Please!

  43. Libturd in Union says:

    Millenials are soft like a marshmallow. Progressive millenials are like talc.

  44. Fast Eddie says:

    How are millenials smarter? Their IQ is higher than previous generations? What, they can twit and text really well? I work with a slew of millenials and these cats and kittens are smart as sh1t but they’re hand picked. Overall, as a group, what makes them any better than previous generations? Come on, gimme a break.

  45. anon (the good one) says:

    they ain’t as racists, for one thing

    Fast Eddie says:
    April 30, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    Overall, as a group, what makes them any better than previous generations?

  46. Fast Eddie says:

    they ain’t as racists, for one thing

    Based on what?

  47. nwnj says:

    #46

    I guess the exemplar behavior exhibited by street hoods from Ferguson to Baltimore. Those problems are clearly behind society.

  48. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Hmm, attacking my intelligence while believing that foreign students are far superior to American students based on bogus test data is a hypocrisy at best.

    The Original NJ ExPat says:
    April 30, 2015 at 2:04 pm
    Blumpkin – Read the article again and sound out words as best you can. Some words that are all capital letters which you may not recognize may be what is called an “acronym”. We’ll cover that in a future lesson.

    Is everyone taking the same test? What kind of test can you use to measure how smart an individual is? How, if people are smart in different ways. A test is biased by whoever created it.

  49. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You so want the millenials to fail. Jealous? If only millenials had it as good as you did growing up. Cheap college. Get any degree and you were automatically in the top 20% of the population. Drop out of high school and get some factory job to put you in the middle class. Wish millennials had it this easy. All you had to do is work hard and you got ahead. Today, work hard for what? What exactly does working hard get you today? In debt with some worthless job waiting tables?

    Fast Eddie says:
    April 30, 2015 at 3:20 pm
    How are millenials smarter? Their IQ is higher than previous generations? What, they can twit and text really well? I work with a slew of millenials and these cats and kittens are smart as sh1t but they’re hand picked. Overall, as a group, what makes them any better than previous generations? Come on, gimme a break.

  50. Libturd in Union says:

    The black millennials are the smartest. Am I in the club now Anon? Baa!

  51. anon (the good one) says:

    yes, old farts don’t want livable minimum wage or affordable healtcare for the young.

    but ask those entitled bastards about social security and Medicare and see what they say

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    April 30, 2015 at 4:14 pm

    You so want the millenials to fail. Jealous?

  52. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    No I don’t. I just watch them come to work, come to interviews, and that’s what they do. I thought for sure they would have taken my job by now, but they’re not smart enough or motivated enough. When it comes to the “need smart guys” positions I see a whole slew of 50 year olds being hired, no 25 year olds. Ask any 25 year old (American) programmer what they think of ASP.Net 5 and they don’t even know what you’re talking about. The 50 year old does. And it hasn’t even been released yet.

    You so want the millenials to fail.

  53. Fast Eddie says:

    Jealous? LOL! Yeah, I’m jealous.

  54. Essex says:

    Well it looks like we are rockin’ & Rollin’ –

  55. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Perspective, it’s a beautiful thing. Did it ever occur to you that these employers ask for insane experience in order to get the job? Where exactly is the millennial supposed to get this on the job experience so that he can know what you know? You have no idea how this generation is taking punch after punch.

    The Original NJ ExPat says:
    April 30, 2015 at 4:32 pm
    No I don’t. I just watch them come to work, come to interviews, and that’s what they do. I thought for sure they would have taken my job by now, but they’re not smart enough or motivated enough. When it comes to the “need smart guys” positions I see a whole slew of 50 year olds being hired, no 25 year olds. Ask any 25 year old (American) programmer what they think of ASP.Net 5 and they don’t even know what you’re talking about. The 50 year old does. And it hasn’t even been released yet.

    You so want the millenials to fail.

  56. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Thought this was a pretty good comment from this article and worth sharing.

    “I don’t think it’s possible to reverse 100 years of segregation or even 1 year of segregation. Redlining can be outlawed, discrimination in hiring can be outlawed, white flight (or middle-class black flight) from impoverished areas cannot.
    Is the problem that black people just need more white people living near them in order to prosper? That sounds weird and belittling, if not racist.
    The assumption, either implied or stated, is that in the past there have been jobs in geographical areas off-limits to black people, and if they’d only been allowed to live there, then all would be well. I suspect it’s more complicated than that.
    But what can be done, if segregation cannot be reversed? Would the problem be magically solved if segregation were reversed, by just transplanting a bunch of people? That seems unlikely.
    If the problem is lack of jobs, then could an old-fashioned (think depression era) jobs program help? It’s obvious that neither the municipality nor the state could afford it, but the federal government could.
    I’d rather see tax money spent on government make-work jobs than on police budgets, prisons, food stamps, and welfare. After the Great Depression, it worked for poor white people. Maybe now it would work for poor black people.
    If the cycle of poverty and violence could be broken, then violence would subside due to not having poverty. If there was no longer an excess of violence, then there would be less of a driver for successful people to flee the cities for the suburbs. If urban renewal took hold, then there would be the reverse problem of gentrification, and the affluent and poor populations might end up swapping living areas. But that’s a problem that is preferable to festering poverty.
    What would be needed to do this is a willingness to raise federal taxes (gasp) and embrace the notion of increasing the number of what would essentially be government employees. Well, good luck getting a single Republican on board with that. They didn’t even like it when there was a jobs program for poor white people.
    Maybe, like legalization of weed, they’ll come around to the idea in 50 years or so, when every other option has failed and proved more expensive while failing.”

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/04/baltimore_s_failure_is_rooted_in_its_segregationist_past_the_city_s_black.2.html#lf_comment=302988535

  57. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I know a guy who changed jobs recently. An IT infrastructure manager in his early 50’s. He’s short of stature, very overweight, and has had white hair and beard since he was about 30. I’ve seen him dye his hair and beard which makes him appear a little younger, but that’s all. He’ll do the dye job for a few years, then get tired of it and let his hair and beard go white again. He got fed up with his job of 8 years and quit unceremoniously without having even looked for another job, this was last Summer. I had lunch with him a few weeks later and he had the dye job back in place. He does it himself and does a real good job, makes his hair and beard chestnut brown, not orange. Anyway he had a much better job in about 7 weeks with a very mature start-up company that is cash flow positive. I had lunch with him a couple weeks ago and he was already done with the dye cover-up less than half way through his first year. I said to him, “So, you’re letting your true colors show again?” His answer, “What do I care? I work with all old guys anyway.” The point is that he is working for a startup not unlike the ones of 15-18 years ago, but instead of young guys, it’s all old guys this time around. In fact it’s probably the same guys. Anybody who’s ever worked for a startup knows there is no place to hide. You are either good or you are gone. All the young guys are gone. I guess you might make a case that they are non-starters.

  58. The Great Pumpkin says:

    For people like Christie who think that raising the retirement age is the answer are completely lost. Why? All they are doing is forcing older people to work longer. Work longer at who’s expense(not enough jobs to go around, so working longer has to come at an expense for someone else)? For every year you force the retirement age higher, you are screwing the 20 something who will not be able to find a job now. How come nobody wants to talk about that?

  59. Pete says:

    Maybe the smart ones just dont want to work at your company. And your broad generalization of a whole generation of people is based on the lesser of them.

    “No I don’t. I just watch them come to work, come to interviews, and that’s what they do. I thought for sure they would have taken my job by now, but they’re not smart enough or motivated enough. When it comes to the “need smart guys” positions I see a whole slew of 50 year olds being hired, no 25 year olds”

  60. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Check out this article from USA TODAY:

    China builds 57-story skyscraper in 19 days

    http://usat.ly/1GHRytU

  61. jcer says:

    59 Smart millennials are getting paid big bucks writing apps or HTML 5 and typically in a non corporate setting. I am always the youngest person where I work and have people who work for me who are in their 60’s. The biggest difference I see between millennials and the older work force is work ethic. The old timers work the hardest, the young guys only want to work as hard as they have to.

  62. Wily Millenial says:

    “Ask any 25 year old (American) programmer what they think of ASP.Net 5 and they don’t even know what you’re talking about. The 50 year old does. ”

    This is true, but the 50 year old may have mistaken that fact for good news.

  63. Wily Millenial says:

    The claim that the startup scene is dominated by 50 year olds is giving me serious doubts about the veracity of some of these comments, the average age at every startup is about 22.6. Now, the venture capital scene…

  64. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [59] Pete – May your right…except I have a large network of colleagues at other companies around the nation and not only are they not working at those companies, they don’t seem to exist in nature anymore. “Smart young programmer” used to be a common expression. Anybody know one? Anyone seen one lately? It reminds of the old Wall Street adage in reverse:

    “There are old traders and there are bold traders, but there are no old, bold traders.”

    Maybe the smart ones just dont want to work at your company. And your broad generalization of a whole generation of people is based on the lesser of them.

  65. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Wage inflation will come or it will get ugly.

    “Social backlash: It’s not just Democrats like Hillary Clinton and Elizabeth Warren that are talking about America’s income inequality problem. Republicans are increasingly acknowledging that it’s a major issue as well.
    Eric Cantor, the former House Majority Leader, told CNNMoney he believes the unrest in Baltimore is being fueled by the “lack of upward mobility and opportunity for so many people.” He said, “I don’t think anybody can deny that there is a growing gap between the rich and the poor.”
    Roubini said Republicans are increasingly realizing that income inequality is an issue that if left unaddressed “will have a social and political backlash,” including more calls to tax the richest Americans.
    The fallout is already hurting the economy and may eventually eat into corporate profits, Roubini said. He believes it’s one of many reasons why the U.S. economy cooled during the first quarter of 2015.”

    http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/29/news/economy/roubini-baltimore-riots-inequality/

  66. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [63] Source? (I hope it’s not an article from 1999)

    The claim that the startup scene is dominated by 50 year olds is giving me serious doubts about the veracity of some of these comments, the average age at every startup is about 22.6. Now, the venture capital scene…

  67. Juice Box says:

    re # 58 – “All they are doing is forcing older people to work longer.”

    Social Security benefit are already pegged to a “retirement age” of 70 years old, and anything less is reduced. You get 8% more a year if you wait until max benefits kick in at 70.

    http://blogs.marketwatch.com/encore/2013/10/23/social-securitys-real-retirement-age-is-70/

  68. The Great Pumpkin says:

    65-

    “Main Street versus Wall Street: Of course, there is no easy solution to narrow the income gap. Roubini said the U.S. must invest in education, training, human capital and other things that will help Americans compete in this increasingly digital and global economy.
    What is clear is that what’s been tried recently isn’t working.
    “You cannot just send people to prison. That’s not the solution. That’s what we’ve been doing for the last 20 years,” Roubini said. “We have to find a better way.”
    In the wake of the financial crisis, the Federal Reserve has sought to breathe life back into the economy through extremely low interest rates and stimulus known as quantitative easing. Roubini said that’s been great for the bull markets in stocks and bonds, but the impact has been far more muted in the real economy.
    “All of this easy liquidity has not led to a strengthening of job creation, wages and opportunity. The gap between Main Street and Wall Street is widening,” he said.”

  69. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [65] I can’t believe that the Great Bumpkin has been around here this long and doesn’t understand that inflation is not a good thing. It means your money is worth less. It means your money is worth less even if you were deemed pitiful, unemployable, unattractive, wholly addled, and likely to be destitute by Nana.

  70. Juice Box says:

    re # 57 – “. You are either good or you are gone.”

    I had a friend who went to work at FB a few years ago in 2012, a few months before the IPO he was the second oldest in the place. He is still in silicon valley and working a a more mature company Ebay lol.

  71. grim says:

    Sorry, but I’ve worked with too many millennials at too many successful companies to think anything other than the way I do.

  72. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    ^^^They would need to have a lot of toddlers working there to get the average age down to 22.6 years, right, WM?

  73. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [72] grim – Is it possible your specific work self-selects for greatness, or are the rest of us just not smart enough to see the potential of the Millennials we come into contact with on a daily basis? Side bar question – Do you see stellar math skills in the young guys of which you speak?

    Sorry, but I’ve worked with too many millennials at too many successful companies to think anything other than the way I do.

  74. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    ^^^^Follow-up question for grim: What is your opinion on the set of social and economic factors that made this current generation so great?

  75. grim says:

    The nature of my work gives me exposure to a large number of companies, across a wide swath of verticals, around the world. That exposure is specifically to the boots-on-the-ground operations, not just the bullshit board rooms or glossies. From small startups to large mature organizations (aka shutdowns). From the young companies that actually have a culture, to the behemoths who spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on management consultants to help them establish a corporate culture by powerpoint (huh?). I’ve seen smart kids being allowed to be creative and build amazing things, and I’ve seen worthless companies so strangled by their own asinine bureaucracies that it’s irrelevant how smart anyone is, nothing gets done.

    I think Pete’s comment above is spot on. If you aren’t impressed by the millennials you’ve worked with, maybe your company has a problem attracting talent.

  76. Jason says:

    Sorry Grim, your sample size is much too small to be making such generational declarations. I will add however, that I wish you were correct.

  77. saucony uomo says:

    dell’occhio mentre passava. ‘Whos lui, Madonnina? disse Maggy. Lei l’aveva raggiunta alla finestra ed è stato appoggiato sulla sua spalla. ‘Lo vedo entrare e spesso fuori. ‘Ho sentito lo ha chiamato un indovino, disse la piccola Dorrit. ‘Ma dubito se poteva dire molte persone, anche loro fortune passate o presenti. ‘Avremmo potuto avere detto la principessa lei? disse Maggy. La piccola Dorrit,saucony jazz low pro, guardando pensieroso verso la valle oscura della prigione, scosse la testa. &

  78. Wily Millenial says:

    [66] Source? (I hope it’s not an article from 1999)

    Whole career at startups and as large technology firms, and I’ve interviewed something like 175 engineers in the last two years. Not saying there are no 50 year olds, but most of the ones in the applicant pool are terrible. (Not that you meet many good 20 year olds) At the handful of startups I’ve visited recently usually the oldest person is perhaps 40 and has an MBA. Senior eng late 20s early 30s. Junior eng inevitably 1-3y out of college and easily tempted with dinky dilutable equity grants.

    Netflix used to basically drive everyone over 30 out with lousy benefits and work hours although that’s a sweatshop.

    Most boomer developers don’t react well to being talked down to by young people either, but that’s an important skill now. I plan to be very far from this industry at 50.

  79. Wily Millenial says:

    I take it back, I know some smart old programmers. But they don’t get much programming done anymore because they’re out on their boats.

  80. NJT says:

    Re: Staff age and numbers.

    I’ve worked in/at/on just about every IT position over the last 25 years (has it been that long!?). Start ups to Fortune 100s. Private sector, .Gov. Consulting and FTE. No worldwide experience like Grim but some overseas (Europe and Australia).

    NOTHING counts more than a SOLID work ethic and experience (at a place that actually needs to produce something in order to make a profit).

    Co. I’m at now (FTE and last time, for me, in any IT role) PREFERS 40+ experienced males for the serious work. Couple a millennials are in the mix too but they really are geniuses (one is lazy, though).

  81. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    OK, I’ve changed my mind. Millennials are the smartest generation ever and, like the Shadow, they have the ability, presumably learned in the Orient, that they can cloud my mind such that I cannot see them.

  82. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [79] WM -Congratulations on your storied career. I’m just wondering where the following stat came from. This is just something you pulled out of somewhere, not actual data, correct?

    the average age at every startup is about 22.6.

  83. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    ^^^Not 23, not 22, not mid 20’s, but 22.6, right? Let me guess your specialty…Marketing?

  84. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    The below statement might explain the recent dearth of IPOs.

    At the handful of startups I’ve visited recently usually the oldest person is perhaps 40

  85. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [81] NJT – Same here. I programmed with punch cards in 1977(HS), was an Aerospace Software engineer in the early 80’s, Network engineer in the mid 80’s, SW and HW consultant until the late 90’s, Management and multi-department management after that, 5 years off while the kids were young, and then back into the game since 2006. I’ve seen a hell of a lot and I would think there would be some young buck who could know me down by now, but all I see is an absence of young bucks.

    I’ve worked in/at/on just about every IT position over the last 25 years (has it been that long!?). Start ups to Fortune 100s. Private sector, .Gov. Consulting and FTE. No worldwide experience like Grim but some overseas (Europe and Australia).

    NOTHING counts more than a SOLID work ethic and experience (at a place that actually needs to produce something in order to make a profit).

    Co. I’m at now (FTE and last time, for me, in any IT role) PREFERS 40+ experienced males for the serious work. Couple a millennials are in the mix too but they really are geniuses (one is lazy, though).

  86. Wily Millenial says:

    “about 22.6”, yes it’s off the cuff hyperbole. We’re probably discussing very different sectors.

    https://hbr.org/resources/images/article_assets/2014/04/final1.png

  87. JJ says:

    Main problem young folk is they don’t know how to play the game and they are too big for their britches

  88. chicagofinance says:

    The only thing that matters is a 30-something slackwad web admin who can’t be bothered to step up and keep the website current…….smart doesn’t fix lazy….

  89. Juice Box says:

    Do we get to see a Chris Christie perp walk after Wildstein’s guilty plea today?

  90. jcer says:

    86, work ethic and experience only gets you so far I have people working for me who have both in spades. It doesn’t mean the company isn’t going to send them down the river. But Grim is somewhat right from a technical perspective the young tend to be far less set in their ways and open to new ideas which is huge and is the transformation that IT needs to go through as most shops are stuck in the SQL DB mainframe concepts of the 60’s which for some problems is perfectly adequate but for other it is like banging your head against the wall. There are a lot of very smart millennials out there but there are also people unqualified to be a barista at Starbucks. A really smart developer even if they are lazy are worth a lot it’s the difference between 4k and 40k lines of code. Smart developers are rare but they can really see the problem and build a flexible solution around it in a very straight forward way. You need both people who can hack out a whole lot of acceptable code and the people who can basically take what most developer need a month to come up with an ok solution, these guys can come up with something better in 2 days kind of guys. You cannot have a team entirely made up of “Rockstar” programmers, it doesn’t work their is too much friction between them and they will inevitably disagree on design, also they are lazy so they won’t do anything but the interesting work, the mundane stuff won’t get done.

  91. jcer says:

    Oh yeah and in tech years 50 is dead, I don’t quite understand why but it strikes me that I need to be ready to retire when I get there. I’ve seen too many older technologists shown the door.

  92. jj says:

    Fidelity says that the average 401(k) balance at the end of March was $91,800; for employees in a 401(k) for more than 10 years, the the average balance was $251,600. The average combined IRA + 401(k) balance increased 2.2% last year, to $267,200.

    So 401K balances are up yea. But still pretty lame.

  93. Libturd in Union says:

    “for employees in a 401(k) for more than 10 years, the the average balance was $251,600”

    Lame but surprisingly more than I expected.

    http://tinyurl.com/notenoughdoughyo

  94. NJT says:

    #92

    “… in tech years 50 is dead,…”.

    That’s the main reason I’m transitioning out of IT as quickly as I can.

  95. jj says:

    If you max out and do mainly stock that could be 500K in ten years.

    Libturd in Union says:

    May 1, 2015 at 10:01 am

    “for employees in a 401(k) for more than 10 years, the the average balance was $251,600″

    Lame but surprisingly more than I expected.

  96. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    What’s a good number to have for retirement? 1 or 2 mm?

  97. Juice Box says:

    re: 97 – boomer relatives were calling it a 201k just a few years ago.

  98. Juice Box says:

    98 – 8 figures minimum or you will be eating cat food in your golden girl years.

  99. Juice Box says:

    does anyone think Christie is going to skate on Bridge Gate? More coming this afternoon apparently.

  100. Libturd in Union says:

    I think he skates since I doubt he’s behind it as it’s even too amateur for even him. Though I’m sure someone in his administration did it to try to earn brownie points and a spot in his presidential administration. Boy did that backfire on them.

  101. Libturd in Union says:

    Million per person for someone around 50 today. Consider SS the gravy and not the turkey. Of course, you could retire down in Costa Rica on a 5th of that very comfortably. I expect to easily have 3 to 4 times that. I will live like a king.

  102. Essex says:

    Why the hell did Christie’s man-faced breadwinner wife quit her Job??

  103. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Guy is done. Get this guy out of our leadership. He is nothing more than a bully, and I hope he goes to jail for this bullying of a mayor that didn’t endorse him.

    “Zegas also reiterated today that Christie “knew of the lane closures as they occurred” and “evidence exists” that proves it.”

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/05/david_wildstein_pleads_guilty.html#incart_maj-story-1

  104. JJ says:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-401k/

    compare your 401K against the best

  105. JJ says:

    Kinda low. I only crossed one million in my 401Ks last year and it seems like peanuts. If I had a working spouse I would be at 2 million by now. The minimum to retire is around 5 million. At that amount you can afford name brand cat food and not have to eat pathmart brand.

    FKA 2010 Buyer says:
    May 1, 2015 at 11:28 am
    What’s a good number to have for retirement? 1 or 2 mm?

  106. Libturd in Union says:

    JJ,

    Compare the results of that chart with what pensions are obligated to pay. Just wow!

  107. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    Hmmmmm maybe I will start eating catfood now so I can max all my contributions so I can eat regular food in retirement. LOL

    I have a while to go so Im not worried but having a kid later in life (which more people are doing) can do some damage in your prime earning years.

  108. Libturd in Union says:

    I had my second at 42. Didn’t have my first until I was 35. I wanted to be financially secure before raising them. Makes for a much better life. Also, keeps one from spoiling them. To each their own.

  109. JJ says:

    I did the same except I wanted to sleep with every women I could, drink like a fish, bake like a lobster in the sun and party like a rock star before I got married and started wasting my money on children.

    Has my last one at almost 45 who I tell she better start saving as she is paying for her own college and my nursing home at same time.

    Libturd in Union says:
    May 1, 2015 at 2:36 pm
    I had my second at 42. Didn’t have my first until I was 35. I wanted to be financially secure before raising them. Makes for a much better life. Also, keeps one from spoiling them. To each their own.

  110. JJ says:

    What effect does having a kid later in life for a man have any effect on earnings?

    FKA 2010 Buyer says:
    May 1, 2015 at 2:21 pm
    Hmmmmm maybe I will start eating catfood now so I can max all my contributions so I can eat regular food in retirement. LOL

    I have a while to go so Im not worried but having a kid later in life (which more people are doing) can do some damage in your prime earning years.

  111. Essex says:

    Parenting tips from Douche’s. A new book from Penguin Press.

  112. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    No effect on earnings but an effect on how much you can save. Although some could argue that a person with family commitments is more stable and the company can invest in them.

    It like Libturb said, later in life you should be established by then and earning a pretty decent salary which means you have more money to allocate to retirement. Which means nothing if you have a kid at that same time.

  113. jcer says:

    113, actually having a kid and a wife as man probably helps your earnings potential. You are perceived as more responsible and like you actually really need to make more money.

  114. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    Right idea, bad execution….

    Alibaba is Pulling Its Ad for Job Candidates With P star Qualities

    Alibaba Group Holding Ltd. withdrew a job advertisement seeking candidates who resemble a popular Japanese p actress to motivate computer programmers after drawing criticism.

    Asia’s biggest Internet company advertised on its website for applicants who know how to praise the “code monkeys,” wake them up and organize morning meetings. Physical characteristics similar to adult film star Sora Aoi may help the applicant succeed, it had said.

    The ad comes as the U.S. tech industry is under fire for alleged sexism and discrimination. While Alibaba has drawn praise for the number of females employed in senior roles, the advertisement is being criticized on Chinese social media for being offensive.

  115. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    Alibaba Group Holding Ltd. withdrew a job advertisement seeking candidates who resemble a popular Japanese corn actress to motivate computer programmers after drawing criticism.

    Asia’s biggest Internet company advertised on its website for applicants who know how to praise the “code monkeys,” wake them up and organize morning meetings. Physical characteristics similar to film star Sora Aoi may help the applicant succeed, it had said.

    The ad comes as the U.S. tech industry is under fire for alleged sexism and discrimination. While Alibaba has drawn praise for the number of females employed in senior roles, the advertisement is being criticized on Chinese social media for being offensive.

    “It’s not only an insult to women that such a job exists, it’s also an insult to men, especially programmers,” Li Weiyuan, a 26-year-old male and former programmer in Fujian, said by phone.

    The posting was an attempt at humorous marketing to recruit talent, Alibaba said. While the company is still advertising for a programmer cheerleader, the reference to Sora Aoi has been removed and emphasizes that both men and women can apply.

  116. AG says:

    Millennials as a whole are entitled, soft, lazy. They were raised by helicopter parents offering lavish birthday parties and patting them on the butt for a job well done. You see the problem was there never was a job well done.

    Now as they enter their working years what you have is a borderline obese, spoiled, and mushy pile of entightled worthliness. Thats the guys. The girls are tattooed trash who should be ashamed of themselves.

    Not the whole of course but the majority. I blame unicorn believing morons that reside in places like Montclair.

    There’s your truth for the weekend. Enjoy

  117. Ragnar says:

    Pumpkin,
    What’s the best brand of pressureless practice tennis ball: Prince, Gamma, Tretorn, or something else?

  118. leftwing says:

    116. Download a beach photo and buy a $500 gold band instead. Smarter and infinite ROI.

    119. I’ll take shameless tatted trash shamelessly. Send it my way.

  119. Wily Millenial says:

    It’s economically comforting to know that many of your elders get all their news from USA Today.

  120. leftwing says:

    121 Pt2

    116. As soon as you are hired as a ‘solid family man’ download the biggest bull flamer photos you can find. Frame them all over your office. Declare him your significant other. You can calypso on the conference table while urinating during the Monday morning partner meeting and not lose your job.

    119. Make sure the shameless trash is not your niece’s friend. Gets complicated.

    Otherwise life will be good

  121. Wily Millenial says:

    > What effect does having a kid later in life for a man have any effect on earnings?

    I’m staying home after my kid is born, working is just slavery imo. Wife has good benefits and loves her job. Maybe a nominal salary from some consulting, and plenty of downtime to code and fix up the garden.

  122. NJT says:

    #121

    Way back in the 90s a coworker and I were out at lunch when he said “Oh, yeah, I gotta pickup a picture frame for my wife (wedding photo to display on her desk – at another co.)”. He bought two. One had a stock photo of a HOT chick in it (think sexy, seductive, supermodel). He put it on his desk at work and gave her the other one. Everyone thought it was his wife. He never said it wasn’t.

  123. NJT says:

    #91

    IT isn’t just programming/coding. There’s also:

    App. design/engineering
    QA/Testing/Risk management
    Project management
    People management (including consultants)
    Vendor management (including consultants)
    Change control
    Compliance/Regulatory
    Marketing/Sales
    Support/Customer service
    Ect.

    I’ve been in all of the above roles (including programming/development…that’s a young man’s game, as a FT position).

  124. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I pretty much only stick to penn balls. Check out the penn tribute balls. Imo, best practice ball.

    Ragnar says:
    May 1, 2015 at 4:16 pm
    Pumpkin,
    What’s the best brand of pressureless practice tennis ball: Prince, Gamma, Tretorn, or something else?

  125. Comrade Nom Deplume, Loan Snark says:

    I see a- none, small cal and footrest’s guy has announced.

  126. Liquor Luge says:

    jj (112)-

    Gotta think the jj types are the reason nursing homes now have rules against banging women with dementia and anti-std campaigns.

    “…she better start saving as she is paying for her own college and my nursing home at same time.”

  127. Liquor Luge says:

    I see Bernie raised 1.5mm in his first campaign day.

    That must be a big donation from every choom-huffing, welfare-collecting, dreadlocked bag of blood in VT. Now, the going gets tough. Once he skims all the Brooklyn trustafarians and Ithaca slackards, the lake will be fished out.

  128. Liquor Luge says:

    I prolly have more areas of agreement with Bernie than with any other US politician.

    However, I also have lots of relatives in France who are walking proof of what a slow-rolling disaster soci@lism wreaks on a population.

  129. Liquor Luge says:

    For all our problems, at least we don’t have a royal family full of inbreeds, the parasitic and idiotic press/PR machine that comes with and a completely failed necronomy that supports idiots in jobs like town crier.

  130. anon (the one good) says:

    the Bushes are the closest we have to it

    Liquor Luge says:
    May 2, 2015 at 7:43 am
    For all our problems, at least we don’t have a royal family full of inbreeds, the parasitic and idiotic press/PR machine that comes with and a completely failed necronomy that supports idiots in jobs like town crier.

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