Uh Oh – Now they did it…

Famous last words, from Gothamist:

The Brooklyn Real Estate Bubble Will Never Pop

The housing crash of the late 2000s was supposed to have decimated property values across the nation. But in Brooklyn, the housing market barely broke its stride. Supply and demand is supposed to be an immutable truth, yet a well-documented boom in development has done little to stop spiraling prices. Every few weeks, a different neighborhood in New York City’s most populous borough seems to break its own record for most expensive sale. Intuitively, it feels like the borough is at a breaking point. If something goes up, must it come down?

“There’s no end in sight,” says Jesse Keenan, the research director at Columbia University’s Center for Urban Real Estate, referring to Brooklyn’s obscene housing market.

Currently, the monthly payments on a median-priced home in Brooklyn eat up 98 percent of the borough’s median income of $46,000. The median sales price in the nation’s “most unaffordable city,” just passed $600,000 for the first time. The 70 percent of Brooklyn residents who rent aren’t faring any better—average rent in the borough rose by 77 percent between 2000 and 2012. According to a March report by StreetEasy, “the typical new renter will spend 60 percent of their income on rent in 2015,” the highest rent-to-income ratio in all of New York.

And the Times is running trend pieces about how Brooklynites are moving to Manhattan because it’s cheaper, which means the trend started at least five years ago.

In order to bring housing prices down in any significant way, Keenan told me, the city would need to massively expand its housing stock. That’s especially true of Brooklyn, whose historic neighborhoods are largely made up of townhouses and not apartment buildings.

A 2013 report Keenan co-authored estimates that 300,000 to 350,000 new units must be built to house the next generation of New Yorkers, nearly double the 200,000 affordable units that Mayor Bill de Blasio has pledged to build or preserve.

“I know that sounds crazy and there are significant sensitivities there, but we’re so far in the hole that it’s a long-term challenge to our labor economies,” Keenan said.

A housing expert who works for a prominent real estate investment company who asked to remain anonymous because he was speaking so candidly, agreed that New York has a chronic supply shortage that will take decades to fix. Even if the housing market cools off, he said, “when the bottom falls out … you will only see massive rent decreases in marginal neighborhoods.”

Even if Brooklyn’s housing sales end up being a bubble, the expert says, it’s unlikely that renters will reap the benefit of it bursting, as “rents are not speculative, whereas housing prices are.”

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Bubble, NYC. Bookmark the permalink.

114 Responses to Uh Oh – Now they did it…

  1. Comrade Nom Deplume, speaking from the Cone of Silence says:

    We are gonna enjoy tossing that one back in their faces in the coming years.

    Oh, and Frist

  2. grim says:

    And we were just starting to enjoy the run up…

  3. grim says:

    Regarding the new trade agreements, if they do pass, I’m hoping the Atlantic agreement waters down EU data protection requirements to make for off-shore data storage and processing less painful.

  4. “If you still think that the establishment Republicans in Congress represent real opposition to President Obama’s policies, you’re either extremely brainwashed or extremely stupid. Honestly, we wonder what it will take for some people to wake up. How many times do you need to be used, abused and conned by slimy politicians before you can shake off your political Stockholm Syndrome? Today’s example is from chief ObamaTrade proponent Paul Ryan who gaffed Pelosi-like when he admitted (with regard to the super-secret TPP) “It’s declassified and made public once it’s agreed to,” in other words – “we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-11/paul-ryan-channels-pelosi-you-have-pass-obamatrade-see-what’s-obamatrade

  5. grim says:

    I didn’t think they actually read the bills, they read them?

  6. Banco Popular Trust Preferred Shares says:

    trying again…….
    Banco Popular Trust Preferred Shares says:
    June 11, 2015 at 4:03 pm
    Q to board: I see a foreclosure auction scheduled for a house in my town on 6/22……what does this mean versus the dozens of others that are just lis pendens?

  7. Comrade Nom Deplume, speaking from the Cone of Silence says:

    [116][prior thread] D-FENS says:
    June 12, 2015 at 5:59 am
    Weird

    ‘Black’ NAACP leader outed as white woman

    http://www.11alive.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/06/11/spokane-naacp-president-questions/71101474/

    *************

    Will enjoy the dustup from that story. They will likely forget that the new political correctness is that you don’t question someone’s self-identity, even if the chromosones and equipment say otherwise.

    If I want to identify as a black woman, I’m a black woman and the left can say nothing to the contrary.

    The fact that the snowflake in the story went so far as to even deny her parents speaks volumes as to her mental state. And if you are gonna send yourself hate mail to create a buzz, take the time and expense to do it properly, and actually stamp and mail the thing, don’t just leave it inside your PO box.

  8. grim says:

    Doesn’t mean much other than it’s scheduled. I’m sure 30yr will chime in, but honestly, the vast majority of scheduled sheriff sales are postponed a large number of times before they actually make it to the steps. A good number of them are settled as well. So while further down the process than a lis pendens (which is nothing more than a public notice that the foreclosure action has been started), it doesn’t necessarily mean an auction will take place on the date.

    If their time is up, on 6/22 the Sheriff’s department will conduct the auction, it will either be taken back by the lender, or sold to 3rd party. If it is occupied, eviction process will be kicked off.

  9. Comrade Nom Deplume, speaking from the Cone of Silence says:

    [5] grim,

    No, they don’t read bills. They have office staff and committee staff for that. If anything, they read summaries.

  10. grim says:

    I suspect the overhang of lis pendens is a little bit overstated, I suspect that many of the existing lis pendens are settled cases where the lis pendens has not been removed/released. From what I’ve seen, easy to file, hard to remove. In some cases, it might actually require concerted legal action from the owner to expunge.

  11. Banco Popular Trust Preferred Shares says:

    Home of one of my son’s good friends…….. married couple with 3 kids, oldest of which is 8 and youngest is an infant……bought near peak in 2006…..I am just concerned that my son would get freaked out, but THIS IS COLTS NECK….

    grim says:
    June 12, 2015 at 7:34 am
    Doesn’t mean much other than it’s scheduled. I’m sure 30yr will chime in, but honestly, the vast majority of scheduled sheriff sales are postponed a large number of times before they actually make it to the steps. A good number of them are settled as well. So while further down the process than a lis pendens (which is nothing more than a public notice that the foreclosure action has been started), it doesn’t necessarily mean an auction will take place on the date.

    If their time is up, on 6/22 the Sheriff’s department will conduct the auction, it will either be taken back by the lender, or sold to 3rd party. If it is occupied, eviction process will be kicked off.

  12. Comrade Nom Deplume, speaking from the Cone of Silence says:

    [7] redux,

    Census bureau rules allow you to self-identify. I will get the missus on board with this but from now on, I am identifying my girls as Native American because they can claim some native american blood in their maternal lineage, and instructing them to check that box on everything in the future.

    Hey, if it is permitted for Elizabeth Warren, it’s permitted for them.

  13. Grim says:

    Who knew Bosom Buddies was so prescient.

  14. Comrade Nom Deplume, speaking from the Cone of Silence says:

    [13] grim,

    Some women’s colleges are changing their policies to accommodate this. And it is with no small measure of irony that they are getting a lot of pushback from alumnae and students. Especially alumnae. I recall one LAT story where a Scripps alumna expressed deep disappointment over the school’s direction–and she was an LBGT advocate in DC.

    Small point on lis pendens: As I understood them, they could be filed for any litigation that could ultimately affect ownership in the property. Realistically, certain of them would not result in foreclosures, but obviously the vast majority, if taken to the end result, would. My point is that they aren’t just for mortgage defaults and could be present for litigation involving very small sums of money or even equitable relief. B

  15. Juice Box says:

    since when is sticking your junk in the intern’s mouth self-doubt?

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/12/politics/bill-clinton-hillary-2016-relationship/index.html

  16. anon (the good one) says:

    Yes, but no all unfairness results from natural law, high degree of it is designed by extreme right wingers who need slaves to maintain their positions. your child is lucky to have you as parent, but think for example of a young woman living in the south trying to get out of poverty.
    a Christian Right Wing Fundamentalist Senator won’t allow her to control her body cause the lord says so. we are a country of family values after all.
    say the young lady gets pregnant. will the Christian Right Wing Fundamentalist Senator who was so adamant in protecting the unborn, will now protect the born? of course not. the young lady is in her fukcing own now. no universal healthcare, no free childcare. she will remain as slave at Walmart. at a decent salary? no fukcing way, no high minimum wage. will her child get free college education? fukc no.
    Christian Right Wing Fundamentalist Senator is against welfare for people. he ain’t against welfare for corporations tho. there’s limitless welfare for the military-industrial complex.

    indeed life is not fair….for some

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    June 11, 2015 at 2:18 pm

    First thing I’m teaching my daughter about life is that it is not fair. I do not want her growing up thinking life is fair. It’s way too much of a letdown to put someone through.

  17. anon (the good one) says:

    in fact you may as well identify them as boys while you are at it

    they deserve all the entitlement you have enjoyed thus far

    Comrade Nom Deplume, speaking from the Cone of Silence says:
    June 12, 2015 at 7:43 am
    [7] redux,

    Census bureau rules allow you to self-identify. I will get the missus on board with this but from now on, I am identifying my girls as Native American because they can claim some native american blood in their maternal lineage, and instructing them to check that box on everything in the future.

    Hey, if it is permitted for Elizabeth Warren, it’s permitted for them.

  18. D-FENS says:

    Rachel Dolezal has officially blown up the internet. I won’t ever repost the tweets like anon does….they are too numerous…

    For a good laugh visit:

    https://twitter.com/hashtag/racheldolezal

  19. Banco Popular Trust Preferred Shares says:

    NBA (JJ Edition): LeBron James inadvertently exposes himself on live television

  20. Libturd in Union says:

    “Yes, but no all unfairness results from natural law, high degree of it is designed by extreme right wingers who need slaves to maintain their positions. your child is lucky to have you as parent, but think for example of a young woman living in the south trying to get out of poverty.
    a Christian Right Wing Fundamentalist Senator won’t allow her to control her body cause the lord says so. we are a country of family values after all.
    say the young lady gets pregnant. will the Christian Right Wing Fundamentalist Senator who was so adamant in protecting the unborn, will now protect the born? of course not. the young lady is in her fukcing own now. no universal healthcare, no free childcare. she will remain as slave at Walmart. at a decent salary? no fukcing way, no high minimum wage. will her child get free college education? fukc no.
    Christian Right Wing Fundamentalist Senator is against welfare for people. he ain’t against welfare for corporations tho. there’s limitless welfare for the military-industrial complex.”

    ^^^^^
    Sickness.

    Anon is the purest example of agentic state theory I have ever witnessed. Someone ought to off this simpleton and do research on his pea brain in the name of genocidal prevention.

  21. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Translation. I want to get rid of the most expensive workers and keep the cheapest.

    “Christie also recommended some of the changes he has not been able to implement. When schools are facing layoffs, state law requires the most junior teachers to be dismissed first, which Christie said usually means some of the best educators are cut. State Democrats and unions have opposed his efforts to change the law.”

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/christie-blasts-teachers-unions-colleges-drunk-on-cash-in-iowa-speech-1.1354272

  22. Jason says:

    Here’s a headline for small-minded Anon to mull over.

    New York Times: “Murders soar in West Baltimore as policing dwindles”

  23. D-FENS says:

    It’s called the Ferguson effect.

  24. joyce says:

    Sounds like we can layoff a lot of the police then

  25. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “”Liberals” are admonished to also be careful of studies purporting to show that income inequality is responsible for many of our economic ills. And then PK neglects to mention any alleged lefty studies.

    Is he referring to Nobelist Joseph Stiglitz’s work on inequality, which shows that the wealth gap, deliberately manufactured by financial deregulation and political malfeasance, is indeed responsible for a tepid economy and slow recovery due to stagnant wages? Or is he referring to Barack Obama, who’s been acting more like a Reaganesque supply-sider lately with his shilling for the Trans-Pacific Partnership “trickle-down” power grab by the ultra-rich?

    I’ll do my civic duty and read Stiglitz and others, like Bill Black and Michael Hudson, who rightly point to blatant corruption and rule by the plutocracy as a prime cause of economic inequality. I’ll put my faith in my fellow citizens, 61% of whom believe, according to a recent NYT poll, that this inequality is getting worse. We believe, along with Sens. Warren and Sanders, that the whole economic system is rigged against us. I’ll also put my faith in the most recent OECD figures showing that the US ranks near dead last in all Western measures of social and economic health.

    There may be a derp problem, but the real problem is that of the insatiable greed of the pathocrats and the influence of their unlimited dark money in what is still quaintly called a democracy.”

  26. Comrade Nom Deplume, speaking from the Cone of Silence says:

    anon should stick to reposting tweets. When he actually tries to think for himself, he really sucks at it.

    The tweets may be simple syllogisms, heavy with sophistry or outright prevarications but at least they are succinct and logical to the unquestioning mind.

  27. grim says:

    26 – Well, when the democrats decide they are finally ready to help overthrow the plutocracy, they can use some of my guns.

    It’s unfortunate that our government has lost the fear of armed uprisings, I suspect for a long period in our history, that fear served to check the kind of greed, corruption, and theft that is commonplace today.

  28. Comrade Nom Deplume, speaking from the Cone of Silence says:

    [22] pumpkin

    “Translation. I want to get rid of the most expensive workers and keep the cheapest.”

    That is an astonishingly stupid statement. Stupid because your cohort actually believes the opposite; that the younger employees are more knowledgeable due to their training in or familiarity with technology and current thinking in their disciplines. Millennials aren’t losing out to boomers in the private sector, its the other way around.

    I had stayed out of the pumpkin-bashing because I don’t like bashing those who put forth earnest views in a civil way. But, truth be told, I haven’t been reading your stuff, and in light of that “interpretation”, which utterly misses the mark by a mile, I cannot help but wonder if those who bash you aren’t right for doing so.

    That was almost anon-esque in its simplicity and stupidity. I still believe you capable of thinking so start doing it.

  29. Comrade Nom Deplume, speaking from the Cone of Silence says:

    [28] grim,

    Lest you forget, in the eyes of the OWS crowd, you are part of the plutocracy.

  30. grim says:

    So come after me, not my wallet. My wallet can’t defend itself.

  31. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I don’t know about you, but when I had rookie teachers growing up, they had no control of the class and looked loss, but I’ll take your word for it. Some of my best teachers were close to retirement. So spare me the political rhetoric bs. You honestly think a first year teacher is better than a 20 year teacher?

    Comrade Nom Deplume, speaking from the Cone of Silence says:
    June 12, 2015 at 10:33 am
    [22] pumpkin

    “Translation. I want to get rid of the most expensive workers and keep the cheapest.”

    That is an astonishingly stupid statement. Stupid because your cohort actually believes the opposite; that the younger employees are more knowledgeable due to their training in or familiarity with technology and current thinking in their disciplines. Millennials aren’t losing out to boomers in the private sector, its the other way around.

    I had stayed out of the pumpkin-bashing because I don’t like bashing those who put forth earnest views in a civil way. But, truth be told, I haven’t been reading your stuff, and in light of that “interpretation”, which utterly misses the mark by a mile, I cannot help but wonder if those who bash you aren’t right for doing so.

    That was almost anon-esque in its simplicity and stupidity. I still believe you capable of thinking so start doing it.

  32. grim says:

    Realistically you probably have 20 year teachers that are great, and 20 year teachers that are counting days to retirement.

    But when the system says that the 3 year teacher gets the axe, because the 20 year teacher can’t be touched, regardless of performance … or the system says the 20 year teacher should be paid more, the only reason they’ve been there as long as they have … I’ve got a problem with that.

  33. Comrade Nom Deplume, speaking from the Cone of Silence says:

    [32] pumpkin

    First, where’s the politics? You are imputing that out of thin air.

    Second, you are raising a new false metric in place of another. The point was about retaining good teachers. Tenure isn’t necessarily a substitute for good, and to a degree, good requires vigor and current knowledge. If you get that in an older teacher, great, but if you don’t, why should they be protected by tenure?

    I’ll give you the last word.

  34. Comrade Nom Deplume, speaking from the Cone of Silence says:

    [34] redux

    Leftwing is right. I’m off to find a mirror.

  35. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Your brand of politics doesn’t attack unions? Maybe i’m wrong. Isn’t tenure dead? I thought it pretty much only exists in name?

    My point is this. Politician talk = smoke and mirror talk. Do you really think Christie gives a crap about who is the best teacher as opposed to who is cheapest? I’m backing that he is more interested in busting up the teacher union and reducing the cost of teachers. I don’t think he gives a damn about education otherwise. He is only focused on the money. But hey, based on being called stupid or an idiot on a regular basis on this blog, maybe I am the stupid one for thinking this way.

    Comrade Nom Deplume, speaking from the Cone of Silence says:
    June 12, 2015 at 11:06 am
    [32] pumpkin

    First, where’s the politics? You are imputing that out of thin air.

    Second, you are raising a new false metric in place of another. The point was about retaining good teachers. Tenure isn’t necessarily a substitute for good, and to a degree, good requires vigor and current knowledge. If you get that in an older teacher, great, but if you don’t, why should they be protected by tenure?

    I’ll give you the last word.

  36. Libturd in Union says:

    “Isn’t tenure dead?”

    No one is ever fired. So tenure is truly a non-issue. As for the old being better than the new? This wasn’t the case with Gator’s kindergarten teacher who not only did not know how to use email, but also didn’t subscribe to differentiated learning. Talk about counting the days till the pension….

  37. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Take away the union, and no good teacher will ever stay for 20 years. The pay and benefits will dictate that. They will be garbage.

    So under this non-union system, the education will go to crap. It will be filled with all young/cheap workers (who can’t find a job so will take this job for a year or two) looking to gain some work place experience till they move on to a better gig in the corporate world. Teach for america is evidence of this. How many teach for america teachers actually stay after their 2 year contract is up?

    Is this what you want?

    grim says:
    June 12, 2015 at 11:02 am
    Realistically you probably have 20 year teachers that are great, and 20 year teachers that are counting days to retirement.

    But when the system says that the 3 year teacher gets the axe, because the 20 year teacher can’t be touched, regardless of performance … or the system says the 20 year teacher should be paid more, the only reason they’ve been there as long as they have … I’ve got a problem with that.

  38. grim says:

    37 – Correction, no one is ever fired unless they have sex with a student.

    By the way, given the recent news flow, teachers appear to be the new clergy. I’m sure the Vatican is more than happy having the spotlight on another group.

  39. grim says:

    I had a dentist right out of medical school do a root canal for me a few years back, was one of the most comfortable and fast dental procedures I’d ever had done before. Walking out of the dentist office that day, it was a shock to me, I’d always gone to verge-of-retirement dentists, who were probably stuck in their ways and using 30 year old procedures. In this case, it was clear that going with “experience” isn’t always the best approach, especially if “experience” really means set-in-your-ways or tee-time-is-in-20-minutes-I-can’t-miss-it.

  40. anon (the good one) says:

    need to add this to my life is not fair list. teacher’s tenure. yep, real one. keeps me awake at night. of all the things i can obsess about unfairness in life

    grim says:
    June 12, 2015 at 11:02 am

    But when the system says that the 3 year teacher gets the axe, because the 20 year teacher can’t be touched, regardless of performance … or the system says the 20 year teacher should be paid more, the only reason they’ve been there as long as they have … I’ve got a problem with that.

  41. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Lib, this doesn’t apply to everybody. You are using one example to apply to everyone.

    How many people get fired in the corporate world? Almost none. Only time that someone gets fired in the corporate world is when they are doing lay offs to make more profit. So why are you picking on teachers?

    Libturd in Union says:
    June 12, 2015 at 11:30 am
    “Isn’t tenure dead?”

    No one is ever fired. So tenure is truly a non-issue. As for the old being better than the new? This wasn’t the case with Gator’s kindergarten teacher who not only did not know how to use email, but also didn’t subscribe to differentiated learning. Talk about counting the days till the pension….

  42. Libturd in Union says:

    Not everything is an attack on the unions. I actually believe in the power of unions and the necessity of them when workers are being taken advantage of by management. Though, I do take issue only with government workers unions since there is no such thing as fair collective bargaining since politics are brought into it. It’s exactly why the benefits package has gotten so unnecessarily rich. Believe me. No business that does not depend on the taxpayer for revenue generation could ever offer such lucrative benefits without going belly up. It’s why I feel that teachers unions are actually anti-education and pro worker. If the teachers union cared about the children, maybe some of the money would actually go to improving the facility and tools rather than straight into salary and benefits.

  43. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Maybe that’s the case. I’ve always been one to respect experience. It’s the best teacher.

    As for teachers, it’s an art to manage a classroom. Imo, that comes with experience. That’s what makes a good teacher. Not how much of an expert they are in the content but their ability to manage the classroom and motivate students. Being an expert in the content and technology dept without the ability to manage and motivate is useless. Those teachers are only good at teaching ap students, students that motivate themselves to learn.

    grim says:
    June 12, 2015 at 11:37 am
    I had a dentist right out of medical school do a root canal for me a few years back, was one of the most comfortable and fast dental procedures I’d ever had done before. Walking out of the dentist office that day, it was a shock to me, I’d always gone to verge-of-retirement dentists, who were probably stuck in their ways and using 30 year old procedures. In this case, it was clear that going with “experience” isn’t always the best approach, especially if “experience” really means set-in-your-ways or tee-time-is-in-20-minutes-I-can’t-miss-it.

  44. Libturd in Union says:

    “How many people get fired in the corporate world?”

    How about over half of my workforce, during the financial crisis? What do you do for a living? You need not name the company. I’m really curious as I find some of your statements incredulous.

    “Take away the union, and no good teacher will ever stay for 20 years. The pay and benefits will dictate that. They will be garbage.”

    Explain why parochial schools teacher work for way less compensation? Keep in mind, there is nearly one private school teacher for every two public schools teachers in the U.S.

    You read what you want to hear. Just like Anon. Don’t be suckered in by the blue team’s tactics. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Just as Republicans don’t really have an issue with gay marriage privately, they must try to maintain their base so they cater to that subset of the population that still goes to church. The truth is always out there, it’s just hard to find among the political talking points. I have faith that you will get this, eventually. It’s really why people here tolerate you, but abhor the Anon’s who are devoid of a single ounce of original thought.

  45. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    Move along, nothing to see here. If you are underwater don’t look for a life line from home price appreciation. Or hoping another bagholder to come around, they are straddled with either education loans or struggling themselves. Better learn to hold your breath.

    Scariest U.S. Housing Chart Shows Scar Years After Bust

    It’s the one chart that keeps Stan Humphries up at night.

    A decade after U.S. home sales peaked, 15.4 percent of owners in the first quarter owed more on their mortgages than their properties were worth, according to a report Friday by Zillow Inc. While that’s down from a high of 31.4 percent in 2012, it’s still alarmingly above the 1 or 2 percent that marks a healthy market, said Humphries, the chief economist at the Seattle-based real-estate data provider. Worse yet: The pace of healing is losing steam.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-12/scariest-u-s-housing-chart-shows-nasty-scar-years-after-bust

  46. Libturd in Union says:

    As for experience being a factor in teaching, I would argue that some skills are gained through experience and others people are simply born with. Really, the best teachers I’ve ever had were younger and more willing to experiment to foster critical thought. The older ones simply followed worn out daily teaching plans that they developed prior to obtaining tenure. Just my opinion.

  47. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Lib, private school teachers are a joke. You pay for what you get. Go sign your kids up for private school and then come talk to me about how great it is.

    “Take away the union, and no good teacher will ever stay for 20 years. The pay and benefits will dictate that. They will be garbage.”

    Explain why parochial schools teacher work for way less compensation? Keep in mind, there is nearly one private school teacher for every two public schools teachers in the U.S.

  48. The Great Pumpkin says:

    50- Best teachers are in public schools. That’s a fact. No one in their right mind signs up to be a private school teacher.

  49. grim says:

    Pretty sure I knew more about chemistry than my freshman year high school chemistry bimbo did. But I’m an arrogant prick, err, did not check my privilege.

  50. Libturd in Union says:

    “Best teachers are in public schools. That’s a fact. No one in their right mind signs up to be a private school teacher.”

    Explain why half the white population of Montclair signs up for private school when they hit the high school level?

  51. D-FENS says:

    46 – Tell them to help themselves. My bailout never came…Took me 8 years to dig out of the hole. I’m still holding the bag…but it’s a lot lighter.

  52. Libturd in Union says:

    The only thing that makes public school teachers smarter than private school teachers is that they were smart enough to go for the higher pay and insane benefits. We’ll see how long that lasts. Perhaps those who are willing to teach for less (private school educators) are doing it for the children and not for themselves. Now which would you prefer?

  53. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yea, it was due to a huge financial crash…..layoffs in the name of profit.

    You are telling me the crash didn’t impact public workers. States put forth stringent austerity measures. A lot of govt workers got the pink slip or were forced into retirement.

    You are really biased when it comes to govt workers.

    My employment– experienced layoffs/retirement, but no firings since crash. Same thing with my wife, nobody fired and I don’t even think she had pink slips in her division during the crash.

    Libturd in Union says:
    June 12, 2015 at 11:53 am
    “How many people get fired in the corporate world?”

    How about over half of my workforce, during the financial crisis? What do you do for a living? You need not name the company. I’m really curious as I find some of your statements incredulous.

  54. Libturd in Union says:

    “You are really biased when it comes to govt workers.”

    I sure am. Government is entirely too big. I don’t believe in the creation of BS jobs for those unskilled enough, or not driven enough to be able to find a livelihood on their own. Shoot me!

  55. joyce says:

    You’re a f-cking idiot

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    June 12, 2015 at 12:02 pm
    Lib, private school teachers are a joke. You pay for what you get. Go sign your kids up for private school and then come talk to me about how great it is.

    “Take away the union, and no good teacher will ever stay for 20 years. The pay and benefits will dictate that. They will be garbage.”

    Explain why parochial schools teacher work for way less compensation? Keep in mind, there is nearly one private school teacher for every two public schools teachers in the U.S.

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    June 12, 2015 at 12:03 pm
    50- Best teachers are in public schools. That’s a fact. No one in their right mind signs up to be a private school teacher.

  56. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Lib, I’m telling you, they are pretty bad. If you would have heard some of the stories I was told by my friends that went to private school, you would understand what I’m saying.

    Joyce, why am I an idiot? Why would I make this up? Why? Give me one good reason?

    Libturd in Union says:
    June 12, 2015 at 12:10 pm
    The only thing that makes public school teachers smarter than private school teachers is that they were smart enough to go for the higher pay and insane benefits. We’ll see how long that lasts. Perhaps those who are willing to teach for less (private school educators) are doing it for the children and not for themselves. Now which would you prefer?

  57. joyce says:

    “States put forth stringent austerity measures.”

    Yeah, they stopped increasing spending year over year at ridiculously high rates… though it still increased.

    And because all the existing salaries/contracts continued to call for more and more each year, they voted to layoff the young workers so the more senior workers could keep getting paid.

  58. joyce says:

    “Why would I make this up? Why? Give me one good reason?”

    You’re an idiot.

  59. Fast Eddie says:

    50- Best teachers are in public schools. That’s a fact. No one in their right mind signs up to be a private school teacher.

    H0ly f.ucking sh1t, you are a f.ucking m0ron! omg!

  60. homeboken says:

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    How many people get fired in the corporate world? Almost none. Only time that someone gets fired in the corporate world is when they are doing lay offs to make more profit. So why are you picking on teachers?

    Many corporations use annual reviews to cull out the dead wood and unwanted employees. GE was noted for removing the bottom 5-10% of their workforce annually. Goldman and other banks do the same but instead of out-right firiings -these employees are given zero-min bonus $ and no raises. The employee figures it out on their own and leaves or they are eventually downsized.

    Imagine telling the teacher – No raise this year, or last year, or next year. How long do they stay.

  61. phoenix says:

    Funny how no one mentions the age of this group, one that controls way more than the teachers do…

    As of June 12, 2015, 5 senators are in their 80s, 18 are in their 70s, 32 are in their 60s, 30 are in their 50s, 14 are in their 40s, and 1 is in his 30s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_United_States_Senators_by_age

  62. Somebody give me a call when Punkin’s brain bleed ends.

  63. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And you are an idiot for thinking otherwise.

    Fast Eddie says:
    June 12, 2015 at 12:44 pm
    50- Best teachers are in public schools. That’s a fact. No one in their right mind signs up to be a private school teacher.

    H0ly f.ucking sh1t, you are a f.ucking m0ron! omg!

  64. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Same thing happens with teachers. They don’t move up to the next step based on bad performances. They might keep their job, but they sure are not getting raises. Raises are tied to evaluations. Bad evaluations, no raise. How is it so much different for teachers? People act like they can sit on their ass, not teach, and keep their job. Show me where this is happening?

    homeboken says:
    June 12, 2015 at 12:44 pm
    The Great Pumpkin says:
    How many people get fired in the corporate world? Almost none. Only time that someone gets fired in the corporate world is when they are doing lay offs to make more profit. So why are you picking on teachers?

    Many corporations use annual reviews to cull out the dead wood and unwanted employees. GE was noted for removing the bottom 5-10% of their workforce annually. Goldman and other banks do the same but instead of out-right firiings -these employees are given zero-min bonus $ and no raises. The employee figures it out on their own and leaves or they are eventually downsized.

    Imagine telling the teacher – No raise this year, or last year, or next year. How long do they stay.

  65. The Great Pumpkin says:

    67- If you have a bad evaluation for one year, you have another year to fix it or you are fired after two consecutive years of bad evaluations. My sister is a teacher. I know what I’m talking about.

  66. Libturd in Union says:

    “And because all the existing salaries/contracts continued to call for more and more each year, they voted to layoff the young workers so the more senior workers could keep getting paid.”

    In Montclair (the bastion of liberalism and only town I know not to privatize garbage collection), they did this with the younger sanitation workers. The old guys, who were driving the trucks or doing more sedentary work, were forced to actually collect the garbage. The number of workers on disability spiked so high that the insurance costs spiked. Then the town had to make a regulation where garbage cans couldn’t be over 33 gallons in size. I got two gorgeous wheeled cans (about $200 each) out of the deal as everyone with a nice can over 33 gallons in size either threw them out or gave them to neighbors in other towns (like us) where garbage collection is privatized. Hell, our garbage collection rates are cheaper than they are in Montclair and they take the trash from the side of my house and return me empty cans. They also collect on holidays. Sure the collectors are paid less, but I tip them a ton, unlike the dregs from Montclair who were the worst garbagemen I ever witnessed. Just behind the schools and the town debt was the horrible garbage collection issues in the list of causes that prompted us to move out of Montclair.

  67. Libturd in Union says:

    How can one be a bad teacher? Really!

  68. The Great Pumpkin says:

    68- Also, in her district, they laid off 380 people (majority teachers) and she said it was not based on seniority. I have to ask her the details, but she stated it was random, based on locations and what not. They used different ways of getting around the rule. So save me the political rhetoric. You guys think teachers have it too good. Why, I dont know?

  69. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You know it’s paterson, and those layoffs were just handed out this month. How many people did the companies you work for get rid of this year?

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    June 12, 2015 at 1:05 pm
    68- Also, in her district, they laid off 380 people (majority teachers) and she said it was not based on seniority. I have to ask her the details, but she stated it was random, based on locations and what not. They used different ways of getting around the rule. So save me the political rhetoric. You guys think teachers have it too good. Why, I dont know?

  70. NJT says:

    Re: Garbage collection.

    Had a tenant renting a whole house. Seemed normal, paid rent in cash, on time. Second year wife left him and his business went south. Had to evict (well, didn’t but he knew I would).

    Basement was unfinished. Upstairs was fine but down there….the second year he NEVER contracted a garbage collection service just threw bags (untied) down the stairs and sprayed some type of air freshener. Had to buy a hazmat type suit, gloves, goggles, facemask ect. to clean it all out then order a special pickup that cost $200. Encountered insects I never knew existed!

    *BTW – He did not separate recyclables so had to go through EVERY bag! YUCK!

    Where I live now we had a choice (because of budget issues and residents refusing to pay more taxes) a couple years ago: Get rid of the Police or Garbage pickup. The people chose to keep the cops. Now I drop off my garbage the next town over at a rental prop. where pickup is still free.

  71. 1987 Condo says:

    #64..you know Eddie’s wife is a Catholic school teacher, right?

  72. 1987 Condo says:

    things are complex but I just put 2 kids through Catholic school k-12 and wife is a public school teacher…sometimes there are other factors at play…..

  73. A Home Buyer says:

    Not to interrupt the torrent of sewage… um, intellectual conversation, Pumpkin is leading here, but does anyone know if Cost of Living Adjustments (COLA) impacts pensions which are not being collected yet?

    For instance, say an pensioned employee stops work after they are vested into their pension plan, but long before they can collect without suffering an early distribution penalty. Does the annual pension amount (say it was 10K) for that employee keep getting adjusted upwards by COLA despite them not currently collecting?

    Or will they only distribute 10K annually once they reach retirement age and start COLA adjustments (assuming they exist) then?

  74. jcer says:

    Pumpkin, I was private school educated and the teachers were far more qualified than most public school teachers. Most of them were basically not employable in public schools, but they generally had greater educational and professional backgrounds. Some were retired public servants who in their 50’s and on a pension but still working. It is patently false that public school teachers are good, many are unemployable hacks whose family connections got them the coveted job, much like the police in many suburban towns.

  75. 1987 Condo says:

    I do not think there is any upward adjustment. COLAs are cancelled till far into future.
    “Tier 1” school pension is Yrs of Service/55 times average of last 3 year salary. that amount gets paid (unadjusted) at regular collection age of 60, I believe. some folks with many years of service can collect as early as 55 but they may receive a downward adjustment. that is my high level understanding.

  76. D-FENS says:

    It’s always perceived as “bashing teachers” when conservatives question tenure and the teacher’s union. For parent’s it’s more “fighting for your kids” than anything else.

  77. NJT says:

    Re: Catholic School.

    I went to one then a public (highly rated) high school. What a joke! I coasted those four years. The five of us that attended the public high were on a college level as HS Freshmen.

    *Knowing Latin I took Spanish 1-4 as a language. A’s all through. Already had Algebra and geometry down, too. The only thing we lacked a good foundation in was science which was cake with our academic discipline instilled by the penguins (yow!).

  78. 1987 Condo says:

    How’s this, I am unimpressed, for most part, with the schools my kids went to and where my wife teaches in comparison to my NYC education, k-8 public, and Catholic HS. Of course I may be selectively remembering just the good teachers…but in NY we had the Regents curriculum which everybody (Public/Private)followed and still does…

  79. phoenix says:

    71 NJT
    Be careful transporting garbage, even between properties you own.
    10k fine if you are convicted.

  80. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Well, again I’m in the minority on this board. I’m not trying to offend anyone that is a private school teacher or who went to private school. This is my opinion and I stand by it.

  81. phoenix says:

    Good private schools are expensive. I am sure you get a good education at Delbarton, but compare it’s cost to public school.
    Funny how some complain about public cost/ student when it is nowhere like this…

    Delbarton
    Annual tuition is $33,900 for the 2014–15 school year
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delbarton_School

  82. Fast Eddie says:

    And you are an idiot for thinking otherwise.

    Hey, Pumpkin seed, I have decades of personal experience that says otherwise. When you don’t know what you’re talking about, it’s best to shut the f.uck up.

  83. Fast Eddie says:


    This is my opinion and I stand by it.

    Your opinions are primarily worthless.

  84. JJ says:

    My daughter has the math regents today, yesterday the French regents.

    In NJ school grades are completely made up there is no way to tell if a teacher or school is good. In NY a hard standardized Geometry, Algebra, Physics etc test is given at year end. Not easy tests and that is how you tell if teacher was any good as a parent.

    In NJ teacher can give easy tests and easy final and Parents think he is a good teacher meanwhile in NY he did that the kids would all flunk the regents and Parents would be screaming for him to be fired.

    1987 Condo says:
    June 12, 2015 at 1:39 pm
    How’s this, I am unimpressed, for most part, with the schools my kids went to and where my wife teaches in comparison to my NYC education, k-8 public, and Catholic HS. Of course I may be selectively remembering just the good teachers…but in NY we had the Regents curriculum which everybody (Public/Private)followed and still does

  85. JJ says:

    I have no opinions everything I say is a FACT

    Fast Eddie says:
    June 12, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    This is my opinion and I stand by it.

    Your opinions are primarily worthless.

  86. Fast Eddie says:

    Not you JJ, I’m talking about bilberry head

  87. A Home Buyer says:

    Pumpkin Dearest, Read Below. Note the problem.


    The Great Pumpkin says:
    June 12, 2015 at 12:03 pm
    50- Best teachers are in public schools. That’s a fact. No one in their right mind signs up to be a private school teacher

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    June 12, 2015 at 1:50 pm
    Well, again I’m in the minority on this board. I’m not trying to offend anyone that is a private school teacher or who went to private school. This is my opinion and I stand by it.

  88. xolepa says:

    Now, back to Real Estate news, sort of:

    Just had my septic tank pumped out. Looked like French onion soup when they opened that up. The guy new his stuff, backwashing couple times till it was nice and clean. Turns out the inlet front baffle is cracked somewhat. The man said it won’t pass inspection when I sell the house. I guess I will do that next time it’s pumped out – in 3 years this time and every time, from now on. Don’t want to get hit with a bill my neighbors SIL did, in the same town: $43k.

    Ouch.

  89. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Blame the public school teacher all you want, but it’s a much more difficult job teaching public school children as opposed to private school children.

    “Personally, I was struck by the degree of student buy-in at SLOCA—which serves just 32 high-school students—compared to a typical public school nearby. In 90 minutes of observing the private-school class, there were zero interruptions, zero yawns, and zero cell phones. All 15 students, ranging from sophomores to seniors, had their homework successfully reviewed within the first five minutes of class; they all had their pens and notepads in front of them without being asked. As I listened to their interactions, it became clear, too, that they were engaged. They laughed when one of them made a joke about Frederick II being excommunicated a second time, and they lightly knocked on their desks when they liked a classmate’s comment—a delightful custom I had never heard of. Each of them, moreover, answered a question from the teacher at least twice. Other than these moments, there was no noise, not a single distraction—and I was struck by the apparent absence of gender lines or observable differences between the youngest and oldest students in the class. Throughout those 90 minutes, they seemed like a group of old friends, united by a love of learning.

    That the teacher was fluent in that day’s topic, the Holy Roman Empire, was clear in at least two ways: One, she answered every question thoroughly, without hesitation; two, I could actually hear every word she said, in the tone and volume she intended. She didn’t have to yell to be heard, and she didn’t speak quickly in fear of interruption. She could subtly emphasize certain words, and her jokes landed. Observing this class, I started daydreaming about what, if given the chance, I would teach these kids—not how I would teach these kids.

    * * *

    As I am writing this, I am observing a different class—one at the 825-student public high school where I teach. The educator’s passion is evident, and his typed lesson plans are immaculate and thoughtful. It’s not completely clear how fluent he is in the subject matter, however, because he has been interrupted or distracted by 20 things in 20 minutes: a pencil being sharpened, a paper bag being crumpled and tossed, a few irrelevant jokes that ignite several side conversations, a tardy student sauntering in with a smirk, a student feeding yogurt to a friend, a random class clown outside the window, and the subsequent need to lower the blinds, to name a few. The teacher is probably distracted by a disconcerting suspicion that he’s talking primarily to himself. For the past half hour, I’ve been thinking about how I would teach this class—not what I would teach this class.

    I know most of the kids in this public school: They’re not hurtful or malicious, and most of them aren’t even consciously rude. They’re just “cool” by default, the opposite of being intrinsically “stoked” or “pumped” (to borrow a few words from their vocabulary) about learning. It’s not a classroom-management issue in this case. The teacher could outlaw food and cellphones, but there would still be jokes, fidgeting, students with passes to or from another place—something to distract them. No matter how diligently he teaches them about the appropriate time to sharpen a pencil, there will still be this culture of coolness, the norm of disengagement. ”

    http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/03/why-im-a-public-school-teacher-but-a-private-school-parent/386797/

  90. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Def attract quality talent with 36,000 wages. Obviously, their job is much easier and the only reason they would choose to work here over a public school.

    “Private school teachers make way less than public school teachers. Average salaries are nearly $50,000 for public, and barely $36,000 for private. That’s not just a gap. It’s a chasm.

    Teacher compensation has become a key part of the public debate over American schools. U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan has sounded the war-horns for higher salaries. New Jersey governor Chris Christie wrestles with unions over benefits. When she was chancellor of the D.C. public school system, Michelle Rhee fought to remake teacher pay scales, en route to becoming the most divisive figure in American education. And whatever your agenda, the salary gap between public and private threatens to rewrite the storyline. If public schools pay too little, why do privates pay even less? On the other hand, with better-paying public-school jobs available, why do so many teachers accept lower salaries in order to go private?

    Some conclude that public-school teachers must be overpaid. Teachers’ unions, they contend, possess an unfair advantage. Through lobbying and campaign contributions, they get to pick who sits across the bargaining table from them. No private union has that power. This perverse scenario, they claim, allows teachers to negotiate lavish pensions and above-market wages. (Never mind that teachers earn 30 percent less per year than other college graduates.)

    The opposite interpretation is that private-school teachers must be underpaid. Private schools, some point out, suffer higher teacher turnover among early-career teachers: 24 percent of private-school teachers are in their first three years of teaching, compared with 13 percent of public-school teachers. And on their way out the door, two-thirds cite low salary as a reason for leaving. So private schools’ stingy wages must be failing to draw and retain good teachers. (Never mind that their students seem to do just fine.)

    Both of these positions overlook the simplest explanation. The labor markets are just plain different—and those differences may hold meaningful lessons.

    The first main difference is licensure. Public education has more jobs to fill (87 percent of all teaching jobs nationwide) and fewer people to fill them. That’s because whereas private schools hire whomever they want, state laws require public schools to hire only licensed teachers.

    That means public schools have greater demand for workers, and smaller supply. Any economist—really, anyone who’s slept through an Econ 101 lecture—can tell you what comes next. In order to fill their staffs, public schools will need to offer a more attractive wage. They aren’t splurging, any more than private schools are scrimping. It’s just the market—two different markets, in fact—at work.

    This brings us to the second main difference between publics and privates, and to the crux of the paradox. How can private schools pay their teachers less, yet offer an education for which parents gladly spend tens of thousands per year? The answer is right there in the question.

    Private schools can pay less precisely because they’re better. Not necessarily for students, but for teachers.

    Class sizes are smaller—a 12:1 student-to-teacher ratio, compared with 16:1 at public schools. There’s also less red tape—private teachers answer to principals and parents, rather than to principals, parents, and three meddling levels of government. And the families at private schools are, quite literally, invested in education. A national survey of teachers, asking them about the problems their schools face, paints a vivid contrast:

    Whereas many public school teachers spend their days leaping over hurdles, private school teachers actually get to—just imagine!—teach. This explains why they’re twice as likely to hold Ph.D.s, despite earning $6,500 less per year than Ph.D.s at public schools. It also explains why 21 percent of private school teachers have two decades or more of experience—virtually the same ratio as in public schools. They stay because they enjoy the work.

    Obviously, teachers care about what they’re paid. But they also care about what they’re paid to do. Some will even take a lower salary if it means a chance to do their jobs right.

    The biggest lesson public education can draw from the salary gap isn’t to cut wages, or quash unions, or hold open auditions for unlicensed teachers. The lesson, in fact, has little to do with salaries at all. The moral is that not all teaching jobs are alike. Different school environments make for radically different work, and many teachers find private schools offer a more rewarding experience. Attracting and retaining teachers, then, means more than just raising salaries. It means taking disciplinary obstacles and bureaucratic nonsense out of teachers’ paths.

    The lesson, in short, is that you’ll attract more teachers by letting them teach.”

    http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-are-private-school-teachers-paid-less-than-public-school-teachers/280829/

  91. Banco Popular Trust Preferred Shares says:

    Is that a new kind of fellatio?

    Fast Eddie says:
    June 12, 2015 at 2:19 pm
    Not you JJ, I’m talking about bilberry head

  92. Banco Popular Trust Preferred Shares says:

    Local Crime Report (JJ Edition):
    A Connecticut policeman was attacked by a nud5 woman who hit him in the eye with a bloody tampon, authorities said.

    The unidentified Bridgeport officer was struck after he broke up a couple having s-x on Main Street Wednesday.

    Imani Brown, 22, was charged with public indecency, interfering with police and assaulting an officer. She is being held in lieu of $100,000 bail, the Connecticut Post reported on its blog site.

    Her sex partner, Mackenzie Bruno, 27, was charged with public indecency and disturbing the peace. He was released on $1,000 bail.

    Police responding to complaints about a couple having s-x in public discovered the two nak5d people copulating in the front seat of a van.

    The woman opened a door of the vehicle and began cursing and shouting at the officers, according the news site.

    As one of the cops approached the woman, she picked up a bloody tampon lying on the ground and jabbed his eye with it.

  93. JJ says:

    I love those jelly biscuits with the strings attached.

  94. Maybe Punkin’ can get a job as a diving septic repairman and fix your broken baffle, Xolepa.

    Every septic ever installed in Hunterdon Co. has a broken baffle. Prolly just takes one good fart to blow them out.

  95. joyce says:

    The Devil’s Bargain: How Plea Agreements, Never Contemplated by the Framers, Undermine Justice

    By Tim Lynch
    This article appeared in the July 2011 issue of Reason.
    Most Americans are under the mistaken impression that when the government accuses someone of a crime, the case typically proceeds to trial, where a jury of laypeople hears arguments from the prosecution and the defense, then deliberates over the evidence before deciding on the defendant’s guilt or innocence. This image of American justice is wildly off the mark. Criminal cases rarely go to trial, because about 95 percent are resolved by plea bargains. In a plea bargain, the prosecutor usually offers a reduced prison sentence if the defendant agrees to waive his right to a jury trial and admit guilt in a summary proceeding before a judge.

    This standard operating procedure was not contemplated by the Framers. The inability to enter into plea arrangements was not among the grievances set forth in the Declaration of Independence. Plea bargaining was not discussed at the Constitutional Convention or during ratification debates. In fact, the Constitution says “the Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment; shall be by Jury.” It is evident that jury trials were supposed to play a central role in the administration of American criminal justice. But as the Yale law professor John Langbein noted in a 1992 Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy article, “There is an astonishing discrepancy between what the constitutional texts promise and what the criminal justice system delivers.”

    No one ever proposed a radical restructuring of the criminal justice system, one that would replace jury trials with a supposedly superior system of charge-and-sentence bargaining. Like the growth of government in general, plea bargaining slowly crept into and eventually grew to dominate the system.

    From the government’s perspective, plea bargaining has two advantages. First, it’s less expensive and time-consuming than jury trials, which means prosecutors can haul more people into court and legislators can add more offenses to the criminal code. Second, by cutting the jury out of the picture, prosecutors and judges acquire more influence over case outcomes.

    From a defendant’s perspective, plea bargaining extorts guilty pleas. People who have never been prosecuted may think there is no way they would plead guilty to a crime they did not commit. But when the government has a “witness” who is willing to lie, and your own attorney urges you to accept one year in prison rather than risk a ten-year sentence, the decision becomes harder. As William Young, then chief judge of the U.S. District Court in Massachusetts, observed in an unusually blunt 2004 opinion, “The focus of our entire criminal justice system has shifted away from trials and juries and adjudication to a massive system of sentence bargaining that is heavily rigged against the accused.”

    One point often stressed by progressives is that trials bring scrutiny to police conduct. But when deals are struck in courthouse hallways, judges never hear about illegal searches or detentions. This only encourages further misconduct. Conservatives, meanwhile, are right to wonder whether overburdened prosecutors give the guilty too many lenient deals. Why should an armed robber get to plead guilty to a lesser crime such as petty theft?

    It is remarkable how few people will openly defend the primary method by which our courts handle criminal cases. The most common apologia for plea bargaining is a pragmatic argument: Courthouses are so busy that they would grind to a halt if every case, or even a substantial share of them, went to trial. But there is nothing inevitable about those crushing caseloads. Politicians chose to expand the list of crimes, eventually turning millions of Americans into criminals. Ending the disastrous war on drugs would unclog our courts in short order.

    In any case, trials are one of the few things the government indisputably should be spending money on. If additional funds are needed, free them up by stopping the nation-building exercises abroad and the corporate welfare here at home. The administration of justice ought to be a top priority of government.

  96. Not Joyce says:

    Joyce #96,

    That is why we are becoming a police state. In short to enter the system is “the punishment”. If you are poor/working class/middle class – even upper middle class you are SOL.

    In you have deep pockets, then stalling the case, investigating the behavior/picadillos of the cops to discredit their testimony, or just harrased them with 42 USC 1987 in federal court does the job. Take a look at Robert Durst.

    The big issue coming up is this.

    -Militarize police -> Bullying/Harrassing elected officials (This happened already with a Bergen County Cop and County Freeholder over the County Police disbanding)
    -Bullying of Elected Officials/ Citizens = Above the Law/Exempt from the Law.
    -Above the Law/Exempt from the Law = Police State with no due recourse for someone not wealthy/connected.

    Question is at what point people go 3rd world an hunt down the cop/family of cop that did extra-legal/illegal harm to them. In short we start developing a revenge culture.

  97. Not Joyce says:

    My bad is 42 USC 1983

  98. leftwing says:

    “If I want to identify as a black woman, I’m a black woman and the left can say nothing to the contrary.”

    Any resident attorney want a high profile pro-bono case? I’ll self identify tonight in the female showers at Lifetime Fitness. Will bring cash bail.

  99. leftwing says:

    All for the cause you know ;)

    Actually, let’s wait until Monday. My luck I’ll pull the only conservative judge in the State and spend the weekend in lockup.

    Offer still stands.

  100. leftwing says:

    “Translation. I want to get rid of the most expensive workers and keep the cheapest.”

    Maybe. Maybe not. My kids were crushed when the HS had to cut a few teachers. A couple of the younger, more enthusiastic ones were let go. They were totally mystified how a 50+ math teacher who was absolutely horrific was retained.

    Had a good discussion about unions and tenure. How she was ‘entitled’ to her job at nearly 3x the pay of the younger ones, and that is why they lost two younger ones and still had the older. Quality didn’t matter.

    Older one finally got canned this year. You have any idea how bad she was to actually be able to be one of 0.5% actually fired?

  101. leftwing says:

    And, we had a teacher acquaintance who wanted to come on board to the school. He had a good conversation with my boys. Late 50s, advanced degree. He told my sons he could never work at their school.

    Boys: Why?

    Teacher: Because they would have to pay too much. they can’t afford it.

    Boys: You wouldn’t come teach us for less.

    Teacher: I would, but that’s not allowed.

    Animated union discussion follows.

    Raising an army of two to take the fight right (pun intended) to anon’s doorstep. Bring it on, m’fukcer.

  102. leftwing says:

    “How many people get fired in the corporate world? Almost none. ”

    10% annually at any bank from mid-level through junior, like clockwork. Viewed as culling the herd of weakest.

    I started as a financial analyst directly out of college. 30 or so of us in a classroom where we would spend the next nine months actually learning something people would pay for. First job. First day. The first, literally the very first, thing our employer says (even before introducing himself) was: “Look left. Look right. Before we end the classroom segment one of them will be gone.”

    Managing Directors? Coverage guys, not in a managerial role but the highest title given to client relationship managers/revenue producers usually attained by ten years out. If you were generating enough revenue to be compensated high six figures, but not clearing seven, you would be fired. It didn’t mean you were doing a horrible job. Meant you were bringing in about $10 million to the bank. But if you could not produce enough to be legitimately paid $1m+ with regularity, see ya. Thought was, he’s not horrible, but he’s kind of dead weight. We can get someone better.

  103. Libturd at home says:

    Those Atlantic articles are the most hand picked, unscientific articles I have ever read.

  104. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I was thinking about the story from post 102. I would say be careful what you ask for. This might seem counter intuitive, but I was thinking that the unions actually lower the pay for teachers in nj.

    Based on the cost of living, do you know how much teachers (esp math and science) would be making if they could bargain for their pay? All the rich towns will drive the market up for the best teachers. I could see 200,000 becoming a regular thing in these towns to recruit the best. Just look what happen in sports to attract the best. Millions would play baseball for much less, but if you want the best, you have to pay.

    Abbott schools (the bottom end) will still be paying the same amount as they do now. They would still need to pay a good salary to attract good teachers to teach in the toughest conditions. They also could go the “screw the ghetto kids route” and find the teachers that will work for almost nothing because they suck at life.

    I honestly could see this happening if you took away the teacher’s union. Bet you never looked at it this way. Ben(he posts on here) is right, he is better off without the union in his position. He would get so much more money.

  105. The Great Pumpkin says:

    107- remember, a teacher is multiple jobs all in one. They are a manager with no power to fire the managed. They must teach. They must be social workers. They must be psychologists. They must collect loads of data. They must drive instruction based on this data. They must deal with multiple personalities and get them to work together(God bless the teachers in the ghetto). They have to teach to multiple learners. I could go on and on. Yes, they have one of the toughest jobs in the world. So I could see the market becoming the Wild West if you take away the unions and let towns fight over the best.

  106. Libturd at home says:

    They might get an increase in salary, which I’ve always supported. But why the GUARANTEED superior retirement with the best medical insurance for retired worker and spouse? I’ve said it a hundred times. Gator and I do pretty well. But we would trade half of our salary for the retirement packages given to the average state worker. Half!!!

  107. Libturd at home says:

    And do you think the adults I manage are much different than those public school asshats the Atlantic chose to consider the norm? I could provide you similar examples that would make you blush. Ever manage in a blue collar environment? Even most of the managers are immature and extremely territorial. If I took a sip of whiskey every time I’ve heard, “it’s not in my job description.” I would make a Kennedy blush.

  108. leftwing says:

    “I honestly could see this happening if you took away the teacher’s union. Bet you never looked at it this way. Ben(he posts on here) is right, he is better off without the union in his position. He would get so much more money.”

    Beautiful! Book em, Dan-O.

    As with the QuikTrip manager that I would love to pay $70k in incentive comp I would be extremely happy to make some teachers wealthy. I could imagine nothing better than a school full of top tier educators all earning more than they do now.

    You seem to repeatedly confuse my enthusiasm for ‘pay for performance’ with ‘let them eat cake’.

  109. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Honestly, I never looked at blue collar managers like this. That’s a tough job. You can’t even fire them at will because then you are stuck training someone that has trouble learning. Definition of torture.

    Libturd at home says:
    June 12, 2015 at 7:10 pm
    And do you think the adults I manage are much different than those public school asshats the Atlantic chose to consider the norm? I could provide you similar examples that would make you blush. Ever manage in a blue collar environment? Even most of the managers are immature and extremely territorial. If I took a sip of whiskey every time I’ve heard, “it’s not in my job description.” I would make a Kennedy blush.

  110. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You know, I never realized it, but we are on the same page. I def was confusing you with wanting lower wages.

    That’s a big problem with stagnation in the economy. Higher salaries and raises are great motivators which leads to new technology and progress in the economy. With nobody getting raises, they lose motivation at work. This kills the economy by destroying future progress.

    leftwing says:
    June 12, 2015 at 7:17 pm
    “I honestly could see this happening if you took away the teacher’s union. Bet you never looked at it this way. Ben(he posts on here) is right, he is better off without the union in his position. He would get so much more money.”

    Beautiful! Book em, Dan-O.

    As with the QuikTrip manager that I would love to pay $70k in incentive comp I would be extremely happy to make some teachers wealthy. I could imagine nothing better than a school full of top tier educators all earning more than they do now.

    You seem to repeatedly confuse my enthusiasm for ‘pay for performance’ with ‘let them eat cake’.

  111. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I haven’t been engaged fully for awhile, but wasn’t the pumpkin supposed to go away or kill himself a while back. C’mon. Immolate yourself pumpkin and gather anon a little close as your second.

  112. Splat What Was He Thinking says:

    C0ckroaches
    Gonn0rhea
    Punkin

  113. Ragnar says:

    Pumpkin resolutely promised to leave and never ever come back the rest of his life. It only lasted about 24 hours. The only thing he is truly committed to is cmmunicating vast quantities of nonsense.

Comments are closed.