Subprime wasn’t the problem?

From Fortune:

The subprime mortgage crisis wasn’t about subprime mortgages

In the years following the financial crisis, a cottage industry arose that tried to explain just what happened to the American economy and the financial system.

Early on in the process, journalists zeroed in on one set of villains: subprime lenders and the supposedly irresponsible borrowers who were their customers. We were regaled with stories of mortgage lenders like Countrywide handing out loans that borrowers couldn’t possibly repay, and then selling them on to investment banks, who packaged them into “toxic” bundles like Goldman Sachs’ infamous Abacus collateralized debt obligation.

When these subprime borrowers began to default, so the narrative goes, the dominoes began to fall, eventually helping to send the entire mortgage market, U.S. financial system, and global economy into crisis.

At the time, the press spent a lot of energy scrutinizing subprime borrowers and lenders, based on the fact that in the early days of the crisis, the rate and absolute number of subprime foreclosures were much higher than foreclosures in the prime market. It was around this time that CNBC’s Rick Santelli gave his famous rant against talk of bailing out underwater homeowners that helped launch the Tea Party movement, calling the folks who were at risk of foreclosure “losers.”

Furthermore, much of the reforms instituted since the financial crisis have centered around increasing scrutiny of mortgage lending, to make sure that these sorts of irresponsible loans aren’t made again.

But if journalism is the first-draft of history, then it’s about time for a second draft. In a new working paper by Wharton economists Fernando Ferreira and Joseph Gyourko, the authors argue that the idea that subprime lending triggered the crisis is misguided. The paper looks at foreclosure data from 1997 through 2012 and finds that while foreclosure activity started first in the subprime market, the foreclosure activity in the prime market quickly outnumbered the number of subprime foreclosures.

This entry was posted in Foreclosures, Housing Bubble, Risky Lending. Bookmark the permalink.

70 Responses to Subprime wasn’t the problem?

  1. Mike says:

    Good morning New Jersey

  2. Mike says:

    Any numbers available on how many were prime foreclosures?

  3. 1987 Condo says:

    Just heard the phrase “resource rich economy”…far cry from growing up hearing how we would run out of resources and have crippling commodity inflation….(p.s. I am sure that returns in a couple of years!)

  4. Banco Popular Trust Preferred Shares says:

    The poster in the form that appears on these threads does not exist……

    Comrade Nom Deplume, the anon-tidote says:
    June 21, 2015 at 10:56 pm
    [54] banco

    Admit it, if he announced he was going to a GTG, you’d go. I would.

    Of course, it wouldn’t be just to see/debate the mighty Michael. I’d be more interested in drinking with y’all.

  5. Wily Millenial says:

    Man, that Santelli rant was amazing at the tone. I don’t entirely buy the lazy media contention that Santelli arguing against mortgage buyouts somehow led to old white men standing around in tricorner hats shouting about gun control though.

  6. Fast Eddie says:

    The paper looks at foreclosure data from 1997 through 2012 and finds that while foreclosure activity started first in the subprime market, the foreclosure activity in the prime market quickly outnumbered the number of subprime foreclosures.

    How many times have I said the wannabes are truly f.ucked? Does it matter? You either foreclose or do time by continuing to pay for your dead asset. You’re underwater, continue to earn a stagnant wage or less following the financial crash and really have no other option. Who’s the smarter one, the guy who walked away from the house in Passaic or the guy still making payments in Ridgewood?

  7. homeboken says:

    Nice house, new (2013) constructions, wish the back-yard was bigger but it is a nice size. All in all I would take a serious look at this house (or any in the subdivision), except:

    1. Home priced $100,000 higher than last sold price (2 years ago). Yeah appreciation!
    2. $30,800 PER YEAR tax bill, up from 13,000 in 2013. You don’t even have to wait to cross the West Orange line here, your tax bill will equal your PI payments on day 1!
    3. In 9 years when my first is ready for HS, I get build in private school tuition on top of what will likely be a 45k per year tax nut.

    Until (If ever) taxes are brought under control, you should plan on leaving your house feet first if you currently own in WO.

    I know the topic of buyers only being concerned with monthly payments is brought up here often. But in this town, if you don’t understand the economic impact that your property taxes will have on your life, then you are getting suckered.

    To use the example of another commenter. Consider 2% annual increase in prop tax, 5% discount rate for 30 years, NPV’s to just under $600,000.

  8. Comrade Nom Deplume, the anon-tidote says:

    Surfacing briefly with a nugget for Eddie, one of his favorite topics: Obamaphone!

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/102760295

  9. JJ says:

    Taxes on new construction and when I mean new construction pretty much anything built since 2000 have very high taxes.

    It alters what rich people buy. Down by my little beach place I am amazed at how rich folks are who buy the smallest, dumpiest, cheapest, oldest beach places by passing mint condition new construction even though they could write a check and pay cash.

    it is all about carrying costs. A 70 year old run down small bungalow/cape, you can restore with no permits and add no square footage can have taxes of 5k a year and can be bought for cash. A large new home home on top of being 500K more you have 18K taxes.

    And in NY we have the mansion tax. for instance a 1.2 million dollar home with 30% down and 28K in taxes closing costs are 37k. As you have 12K in mansion tax alone plus escrow is large when taxes are large and homeowners insurance on a 1.2 million dollar home is huge.

    By comparison on my little condo I paid like nothing in closing costs. At that low price you buy cash, no mortgage recording tax, no escrow for flood, homeowners or taxes.

    The mortgage on the 1.2 million home is like 6k a month even with 30K down and low rates. Mainly because of taxes. And god forbid the town stays the course and keeps increasing 3-4% year. Not bad at 8k taxes but at 28K taxes at 3-4% alive you will be eaten alive. That is around $1,000 a year tax increases. Vs $315 tax increases on 9K home.

    Honestly, they should put a tax cap on a single family home.

  10. Libturd in Union says:

    From yesterday…

    “The plan, proposed by FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler, would transform the $2-billion-a-year Lifeline program from a telephone-centric subsidy to one that also covers Internet service, if it is ultimately approved. . . .”

    Can I be the first to dub this new voter maintenance program the Opad?

  11. Libturd in Union says:

    And now something to piss off Gary…

    US home sales jump in May, average prices close to 2006 peak
    US home sales climb 5.1 percent in May; tight supplies drive up prices

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-home-sales-jump-may-140041108.html

  12. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    From our friends over at Housing Wire….

    It’s hard to read the tea leaves on what the Federal Reserve will be doing with interest rates. Goldman Sachs has this to say.

    “We are pushing back our forecast for the first Fed rate hike from September to December 2015. In large part this reflects the fact that seven FOMC participants are now projecting zero or one rate hike this year, a group that we believe includes Fed Chair Janet Yellen. We had viewed a clear signal for a September hike at the June meeting as close to a necessary condition for the FOMC to actually hike in September, but the committee did not lay that groundwork.”

    But Wells Fargo analysts think otherwise.

    “The FOMC’s fed funds expectations indicate that the Fed is set for two rate hikes in 2015 probably at the September and December meetings, which have press conferences. The Fed seems similarly inclined to hike rates four times in 2016.

    “The market’s Fed funds expectations in the near and intermediate term seem to be significantly at odds with the FOMC. In the long run, the difference is within reasonable proximity, we think.”

    Bank of America/Merrill Lynch lead analyst Chris Flanagan has this to say on rates, and the outlook for mortgage-backed securities.

    “…(T)he financial stability system that has been constructed in the post-crisis era, including Dodd-Frank, Volker, Basel III, etc, will make it very difficult for the Fed to actually move away from ZIRP and QE. That theme was on full display the past few weeks as credit spreads moved sharply wider in anticipation (fear) of a hawkish outcome from the FOMC meeting. Investors rightly understand that the new regulatory regime means liquidity is not what it used to be; if monetary accommodation is going to be reduced significantly (big if), it makes sense to try be the first one out the door and wait for the dust to settle on spread widening…The economic weakness could change in 2H 2015, but the Fed’s lowering of the 2015 GDP forecast and the Fed Funds ‘dot plot’ for 2016 and 2017 acknowledged that less tightening, not more, is probably needed; the direction of their shift, lower, was key, as it shows them moving back to a more dovish position.

    “All of this ends up as another bad news is good news story for securitized products, at least for the near term. The cloud of unjustified (by the economic data) monetary policy tightening has been lifted, and risk assets are now far better positioned to perform. The fact that much of the securitized products market, particularly credit, which tracked or exceeded spread trends in the corporate bond market, widened into the Fed meeting created good short term opportunity for investors,” Flanagan says in a client note.

    Time will tell.

  13. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    Move along, nothing to see here. It’s ironic that although the middle states are the largest benefactors of the government tit, it doesn’t matter that all to these welfare babies who are about to lose health care. Granted the first time they probably visited a doctor of any sort was on the federal exchange the past few years, so giving up that benefit isn’t that much of an issue. Also ironic that the governors want the federal government to fix the issue. We want a smaller government.

    Morning Plum: Court decision gutting subsidies will squeeze GOP governors

    In the vast majority of states that rely on the federal exchange, HealthCare.gov, there is little or no evidence that anyone has a plan to preserve the subsidies that help more than six million residents of those states afford their insurance premiums. Most of the affected states have Repub governors, and many, including Scott Walker of Wisconsin, Rick Scott of Florida and Dennis Daugaard of South Dakota, insist it is Congress’s job to come up with a remedy if the subsidies disappear.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/06/22/morning-plum-court-decision-gutting-subsidies-will-squeeze-gop-governors/

  14. homeboken says:

    JJ says –

    “It alters what rich people buy. Down by my little beach place I am amazed at how rich folks are who buy the smallest, dumpiest, cheapest, oldest beach places by passing mint condition new construction even though they could write a check and pay cash.” — I understand the statement, but if rich people aren’t buying new construction, then who is buying it? Poor people, no. Foreigners – maybe. Seriously – a $700,000 house is a house for an affluent family. Who is buying the 700,000 new construciton home, with the choking tax bill and C- rated high school? How many “suckers” are there in the market.

    “it is all about carrying costs.” —This is 100% accurate.

  15. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    In other words, as long as you held a job that allowed you to service your mortgage debt, you were good.

    From the article…..

    We can draw two conclusions from this data. One is that your chances of being foreclosed upon in the past decade was more a matter of timing than anything else. If you were a subprime borrower in, for instance 2002, who bought a bigger house than a more prudent and creditworthy borrower would have bought, chances are you would have been fine. But a prime borrower who did everything right—bought a house he could easily afford, with a large downpayment—but did so in 2006 would have had a higher chance of defaulting than the subprime borrower with better timing.

    Ferreira’s data show that even with strict limits on borrowing—say, requiring every borrower to put 20% down in all circumstances—wouldn’t have prevented the worst of the foreclosure crisis. “It’s really hard for certain regulations to stop the process [of a bubble forming],” Ferreira says. “I really wish my research had showed that it’s all about putting down 20% and all problems are solved, but the reality is more complicated than that.”

  16. JJ says:

    I will give you some real numbers on my little place at beach.

    I have it rented for five weeks this summer, 35 days for $8,000. Monthly maint is somewhat high in my building $500 a month considering we have no amenities. But it does include flood insurance, lawn service, sprinklers for lawn service, snow removal, gutter cleaning which are headaches I dont have to deal with. I also have property taxes of $5,300. I can rent off season place for nine months for around $17,500.My tenant is back for year three. Not a big money maker at all. I should have bought a bungalow with no maint. But I make around 12k a year and I keep unit for myself from around June 15 to end of July each year.

    Could I afford a 700k beach house yes? Do I want to deal with another sprinkler guy, gutter guy, landscaper, count on tenants to shovel snow, fix roof, clean gutters, fix sidewalk no and extra property taxes and my own flood policy no. Yes I could also get an extra whole lot of appreciation on the single family home as condos dont really go up.

    But it was all about carrying costs and maint for my wife and even kids.

    homeboken says:
    June 22, 2015 at 11:38 am
    JJ says –

    “It alters what rich people buy. Down by my little beach place I am amazed at how rich folks are who buy the smallest, dumpiest, cheapest, oldest beach places by passing mint condition new construction even though they could write a check and pay cash.” — I understand the statement, but if rich people aren’t buying new construction, then who is buying it? Poor people, no. Foreigners – maybe. Seriously – a $700,000 house is a house for an affluent family. Who is buying the 700,000 new construciton home, with the choking tax bill and C- rated high school? How many “suckers” are there in the market.

    “it is all about carrying costs.” —This is 100% accurate.

  17. grim says:

    It alters what rich people buy. Down by my little beach place I am amazed at how rich folks are who buy the smallest, dumpiest, cheapest, oldest beach places by passing mint condition new construction even though they could write a check and pay cash.

    it is all about carrying costs. A 70 year old run down small bungalow/cape

    70 year old cape – you can trust the dirt will probably still be there in 70 more years. New place? You can’t trust it for shit, it was either flooded or has been built on land that was substandard and previously considered unbuildable, probably due to water issues.

    I’d buy the 70 year old cape too.

  18. grim says:

    I could care less what FEMA says, if the beach house was built in the late 1800s, and still standing, it’s probably in a good location.

  19. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    $6,000 for a five-day course seems expensive but this is one course where I would have perfect attendance..lol

    At Kentucky’s Moonshine University, Would-Be Bourbon Distillers Learn The Trade

    Bourbon is booming, thanks to the popularity of craft brands in the U.S. and new markets opening in Asia. And Kentucky, where 95 percent of the spirit is made, is the center of the bourbon universe.

    Even though it can trace its name back to French royalty, American bourbon isn’t usually thought of as fancy stuff. But times have changed and bourbon is booming thanks to the popularity of small craft brands and new markets in Asia. It’s been great for Kentucky – 95 percent of the world’s bourbon comes from the state. And aspiring distillers are going to Louisville to learn the trade at a place called Moonshine University.

    http://www.npr.org/2015/06/20/416073044/at-kentuckys-moonshine-university-would-be-bourbon-distillers-learn-the-trade

  20. Libturd in Union says:

    And this…is what your tax dollars are going to.

    Essex County Freeholders to Honor Montclair “Sustainability Hero” Gray Russell

    Montclair Sustainability Officer Gray Russell(Newark, NJ) Gray Russell, the Sustainability Officer for the Township of Montclair, will be honored by the Essex County Board of Chosen Freeholders during its Wednesday, June 24, meeting at Montclair Town Hall. Mr. Russell, a highly-respected environmental professional and co-chair of the Essex County Environmental Commission, was named the “Sustainability Hero” for the Month of June 2015 by the non-profit organization, Sustainable Jersey, for the outstanding work he has done to put Montclair in the forefront of the sustainability movement.

    The Board’s presentation to Mr. Russell will be made at approximately 4:30 p.m. in the Council Chambers at the Montclair Municipal Building, 205 Claremont Avenue.

    For additional information, please contact Public Information Officer Gary Kroessig at 973-621-4452 or gkroessig@freeholders.essexcountynj.org.

  21. Juice Box says:

    Mr. President? Nword? Who uses the Nword anymore? I thought the current code word was Hawaiian?

  22. Juice Box says:

    Re: 21 – Sea Bright has a few for sale. When I drove down the ocean road yesterday every other house has a forsale sign it seemed.

  23. grim says:

    $6,000 for a 5 day course where the participant finishes, armed with a real-world, useful skill?

    Compared to most private colleges, where you leave with a debt 100x that, and you learn nothing but how to drink above mentioned whiskey, not a single useful skill.

    Sounds like a bargain.

  24. grim says:

    Siebel is a better deal, btw. At least you can hang at Chi’s alma mater.

    https://www.siebelinstitute.com/education/continuing/craft-distilling-operations-and-technology/dates/

  25. Marilyn says:

    #20 Never would have thought of that. Good thinking for future reference.

  26. JJ says:

    I almost bought a little beach house from Fannie Mae in July 2012, I got outbid by 15k. Of course blind bidding so I would have paid more but guess wrong.

    Anyhow it was built the year after the Long Island Express hit Long Island in 1938. Remember no flood insurance back them and that storm was worse than Sandy.

    It was 730 square feet. And it had a pull down ladder to unfinished attic space, you could stand in middle easily, but sloped towards side. In attic was gas burner, has water heater and main electric panel. You could see wire from Telephone pole go into attic directly.

    House was on a ground level crawlspace and house itself was up four feet. Had one small kitchen with stone floor, one bathroom with stone floor, and ship lat wood floors and paneling first four feet in house. Ship lat would is made from used ship wood. Does not absorb water, warp or get mold.

    House had zero sandy damage. Meanwhile houses on block from 1960s have basements with all mechanicals downstairs.I guess my 1960s the storm of 1937 was no longer in any one’s minds.

    grim says:
    June 22, 2015 at 12:05 pm
    It alters what rich people buy. Down by my little beach place I am amazed at how rich folks are who buy the smallest, dumpiest, cheapest, oldest beach places by passing mint condition new construction even though they could write a check and pay cash.

    it is all about carrying costs. A 70 year old run down small bungalow/cape

    70 year old cape – you can trust the dirt will probably still be there in 70 more years. New place? You can’t trust it for shit, it was either flooded or has been built on land that was substandard and previously considered unbuildable, probably due to water issues.

    I’d buy the 70 year old cape too.

  27. JJ says:

    For the price of a subway token you can just stay at a housing project in the Bronx for a few days and learn how to use a gun for free

  28. grim says:

    Wow huge jump in existing home sales in the Northeast in May, from the NAR:

    May existing-home sales in the Northeast jumped 11.3 percent to an annual rate of 690,000, and are now 11.3 percent above a year ago. The median price in the Northeast was $269,000, which is 4.8 percent higher than May 2014.

  29. Libturd in Union says:

    My brother owns a new construction townhouse in Cape May on the beach. I don’t know the exact dollar amounts, but he claims that if he rents it out for the summer minus the two weeks in which he uses it, it is exactly break even. He could rent it out the rest of the year or over holiday weeks and the take would be gravy, but it isn’t worth the headache to him. It’s a real nice place, 3 bedroom/3bathroom, central air, deeded parking w/garage, etc. But he’s not handy so he uses a service to maintain, clean and get it rented. Really, not a bad deal. To rent his place for two weeks costs between 6 and 8K based on the week.

  30. ccb223 says:

    Everybody buying a house except FastEddie.

  31. grim says:

    Our half-white president drops the n-bomb? Nice.

  32. Libturd in Union says:

    Well being half white, he only needs to check half his privilege.

  33. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [34];

    The real wonder is why anyone even listens to him anymore. Even Pelosi has turned her back on him. Maybe he said it just to get attention.

  34. Libturd in Union says:

    But he (Obama) added that “the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, discrimination” exists in institutions and casts “a long shadow and that’s still part of our DNA that’s passed on.”

    What? Racism is genetic? Does he even pay attention to what he is saying?

  35. grim says:

    If he wants to be provocative, he could smoke a joint in public. Choom gang and all.

  36. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nom [11];

    That little tidbit kept me distracted today. The blue states of NY and CA top the list of Bomma-phone users; third place Florida is a battleground state despite having gone for Obama twice. Obamaphone expansion could just be a sop to reliable blue states. Of course, those are three of the four most populous states.

    When you normalize the data by population, the top five states for Obamaphone penetration are, in order: Oklahoma, District of Columbia, Michigan, Arizona and Nevada. No real electoral advantage there. I also tried adjusting for relative poverty rates in each state, which gave me: District of Columbia, Nevada, Oklahoma, Alaska
    and Michigan.

    The real surprise was that in DC, Obamaphone penetration was ten times greater than you’d expect based on the reported levels of poverty. I’m not sure what to make of a cause for that. But perhaps that’s why Bommaphones are such an evergreen in the news media — they still think everyplace looks just like their little bubble.

  37. Anon E. Moose says:

    ccb223[33];

    Everybody buying a house except FastEddie.

    I thought he already had one; how many does he need?

  38. D-FENS says:

    Meanwhile, from a Republican minority governor:

    Nikki Haley To Call For Confederate Flag To Be Removed From South Carolina Capitol: Reports

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/south-carolina-confederate-flag_n_7637644.html

    grim says:
    June 22, 2015 at 2:25 pm
    Our half-white president drops the n-bomb? Nice.

  39. D-FENS says:

    Interesting, that Governor Nikki Haley Governor of SC, a minority of Indian Decent, and African American Senator Tim Scott (both Republicans), will now call for the removal of the Confederate flag above the SC capital….put there by Southern Democrats in the 1960’s as a sign of resistance to desegregation.

  40. JJ says:

    My winter tenant I did not even visit the property once this year. But my condo the downside it is electric heat and the condo now forbids folks from turning off the heat completely in the winter. You have to keep it on at least 50 degrees. Then I need to keep electric on and water on. Although bills are tiny.

    They used to allow folks to turn off heat but sprinkler pipes run in walls and folks never blow out pipes enough and you get all types of cracked pipes and stuff. Plus it jacks up the units next to you heating bills. And if one persons heat goes out it is not a big thing if other folks heat is on. After Sandy the first two years association with a few units empty and unheated they had around 15k of repairs related to frozen pipes and stuff.

    So the winter tenant keeps heat on which is great. The houses near me all have winter tenants even if they have to cut cost. Tenant has to snow shovel and keep heat on so no burst pipes. Otherwise you have to run down there every snowstorm and every week. And if you winterize then you have a useless house.

    Funny I never complain about electric heat as I am not there in winter and in summer I dont crank AC much.

    The big houses in town are getting 50-70k for summer. And some folks own then for years so no mortgage and plenty only rent one month. The big house on corner near me is owned by a contractor he rented it out for July for 40K. Nice coin considering he owns it like 30 years.

    I could get a lot more but I am only rented to families no “groupers” and this year cutting it off at max of four. It is a hot market when I can cut folks off at four people and only rent to married couples and I only rent to richer folk as I find they take better care of place and go out for dinner. The middle class do stuff like jam six to seven people in a small place, make breakfast and dinner in units and run up utility bills.
    Libturd in Union says:
    June 22, 2015 at 2:14 pm
    My brother owns a new construction townhouse in Cape May on the beach. I don’t know the exact dollar amounts, but he claims that if he rents it out for the summer minus the two weeks in which he uses it, it is exactly break even. He could rent it out the rest of the year or over holiday weeks and the take would be gravy, but it isn’t worth the headache to him. It’s a real nice place, 3 bedroom/3bathroom, central air, deeded parking w/garage, etc. But he’s not handy so he uses a service to maintain, clean and get it rented. Really, not a bad deal. To rent his place for two weeks costs between 6 and 8K based on the week.

  41. grim says:

    Did I just hear the democrat budget plan correctly? 15% special surcharge on corporations?

    Holy F#cking Christ – are these people idiots? How can you possibly do business? 15%? How many companies are going to go out of business?

    The mob isn’t even that greedy.

  42. Ragnar says:

    Maybe he meant to say “naggers”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuvLUhuo52w

  43. Splat What Was He Thinking says:

    I watched Snoop Dogg use the n-word about 2,500 times last night at Firefly.

    Was in Maryland last weekend. The way black guys address each other there, you’d think a couple million of them are named N****er.

  44. Splat What Was He Thinking says:

    Just saying.

  45. Splat What Was He Thinking says:

    …and I was in the wealthiest part of Anne Arundel. Imagine how black youth address each other in Baltimore.

  46. Splat What Was He Thinking says:

    Sorry, my bad. Everyone knows black youth in Bawlamer address each other with gunfire.

  47. Splat What Was He Thinking says:

    WTF is Bojangles doing on some washed-up former tweaker’ podcast that maybe 27 people listen to?

    I’ve listened to a lot of Marc Maron stuff, as his show used to come on Sunday afternoons when I got off work. I kept listening simply because I couldn’t believe NPR would keep renewing something so self-important and rotten…and because I wanted to see how many weeks it would take for the host to say something funny (never happened in three years).

    Seriously…how does this bum score Prezident Lawnjockey for an interview? Whom at NPR does this guy owe?

  48. Splat What Was He Thinking says:

    Pretty sure everyone who was a racist last Wednesday is still a racist today.

    Want to survive nowadays? Have superior firepower and a quick trigger finger. Being a pillar of church and community isn’t worth very much when you’re bleeding out on the floor.

    The only meaningful gun regulation that exists is the kind that lawful gun owners can exact on these nutjobs at the critical moment of intervention.

    Just saying.

  49. JJ says:

    I hung out with Snoop Dog once at a place called Dockers in the Hamptons way back.
    If folks yelled out Snoop he ignores them and this was way before smartphones. My friend and I went up and said yo what up Calvin which is his real name. He started chatting back. He was there by himself. Said he was staying at friends up the road. I know Puff Daddy lives walking distance from Dockers on Dune road. So maybe there I did not ask. But Dockers has a late afternoon happy hour with a live band and you can see sunset so pretty popular.

    So we for fun ask where his posse at? He was like posse? I am hanging out with rich white folk in the Hamptons who the F going to shoot me.

    Anyhow a few years later I am in LA on a business trip and Jimmy Kimmel show jsut started and first week Snoop Dog cohosting. After show since first week they had a bar in lobby and the guests on show which was Snoop, Seth Green etc and folks in audience got invited to hang out with guests for a toast. I go up to Snoop of course call him Calvin and say what up remember me we were hanging out with you at Dockers in the Hamptons a while back, he had that weird stoned glazed so dont know if he remembered. But probably think WTF stalker or really rich guy. At that point I dropped the mike and left as I am a poser and did not want to get caught.
    Splat What Was He Thinking says:
    June 22, 2015 at 3:27 pm
    I watched Snoop Dogg use the n-word about 2,500 times last night at Firefly.

    Was in Maryland last weekend. The way black guys address each other there, you’d think a couple million of them are named N****er.

  50. JJ says:

    Orioles don’t get to say the N word.

  51. JJ says:

    whigger is the W word

  52. Splat What Was He Thinking says:

    That Dolezal bitch is a whigger.

  53. grim says:

    If Jenner can be a female while still having a wang, why can’t Dolezal be black? Bunch of hypocrites if you ask me.

    I am a 79 year old Pakistani woman.

  54. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [56];

    I am a 79 year old Pakistani woman.

    And I am Sweedish: 6′ tall, blonde and muscular. ho you gonna believe, me or your own lying eyes? Anyone who denies me my God-given status as such (including all the benefits that pertain thereto) is nothing but a bigoted xenophobe.

  55. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [56];

    I am a 79 year old Pakistani woman.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you're_a_dog

  56. Libturd at home says:

    I’m Bill Clinton’s finger. Want a sniff?

  57. grim (56)-

    I am Mrs. Watanabe.

    “I am a 79 year old Pakistani woman.”

  58. Sadly, Punkin’ is still an idiot.

  59. Essex says:

    I am groot.

  60. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Gotta love the media and the power of influence it wields. Since the Trevon Martin story was such a big payday, they ran with the race focused news stories ever since. Going to take this country down with it. Best part, this all started because they thought Trevon Martin’s killer was white. These people suck. Why doesn’t the media focus on how they contributed and played a role in bringing this Carolina church shooting about? Yes, you made this kid into what he is with your constant race baiting news headlines for the past 2 years.

    Why doesn’t this crap happen in Canada? Maybe their media does not focus on brainwashing their citizens into thinking there is a major problem with racism.

  61. Essex says:

    Misery loves company

    15 states still haven’t recovered jobs lost in recession (AL, NV, MS, NM, AZ, NJ, ME, MO, IL, CT, RI, WV, WY, OH, WI)

  62. Fabius Maximus says:
  63. The Great Pumpkin says:

    63- I knew it!!! Was I dead on or what?

    “The author of the manifesto on LastRhodesian.com, widely reported to be Roof, wrote that the CofCC website informed him about “brutal black on white murders” after the killing of Florida teen Trayvon Martin in 2012.
    In a statement posted on the group’s website on Sunday, Holt said it was “not surprising” that Roof credits the site for his “knowledge of black-on-white violent crime.””

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/earl-holt-political-donations-council-of-conservative-citizens-119274.html#ixzz3dqRjJ5v9

  64. Comrade Nom Deplume, Future uber driver says:
  65. Surprised that house is in Indy. My first guess was Gary (no pun intended).

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