NJ 23th largest economy in the world

From the Star Ledger:

N.J.’s economy would crack world’s Top 25 if it was its own country, report says

New Jersey’s economic growth fared worse than nearly every other state in the nation last year.

But the state’s gross domestic product is roughly the same size as Poland’s, according to a map created by an economist at the American Enterprise Institute.

The gross domestic product in New Jersey grew by 0.4 percent in 2014, federal data shows, to roughly $504 billion. That increase ranked New Jersey 46th nationwide. Only Maine, Virginia, Mississippi and Alaska had lower rates of growth last year.

Using data on gross domestic products from the Bureau of Economic Analysis and the International Monetary Fund, Mark J. Perry, the editor of the Carpe Diem blog for American Enterprise Institute, matched the economic output of states to those of countries and mapped the results.

“It’s pretty amazing how ridiculously large the US economy is, and the map above helps put America’s GDP of nearly $18 trillion in 2014 into perspective by comparing the GDP of US states to other country’s entire national GDP,” Perry wrote in a June 10 blog post .

California’s $2.31 trillion in economic output in 2014 is just short of Brazil’s gross domestic product in the same year, according to Perry, while Texas is about equal to Canada and New York is similar to Spain.

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94 Responses to NJ 23th largest economy in the world

  1. grim says:

    NJ economy is larger than:

    South Africa
    Hong Kong
    Finland (starting from here, we are twice as large as:)

    etc etc

  2. grim says:

    Looking at this from a GDP per capita perspective, NJ would be the 13th largest economy in the world (based on IMF) or 11th (based on World Bank). This makes us larger than Australia, Sweden, Canada, France, UK, Japan, Italy, Spain, etc etc.

    Like I said, stinks like money.

  3. Libturd in the City says:


    Thanks for the coffee tip. I emailed my supplier to see if she saved some for her regulars when I noticed they were sold out on their site. I lucked out and she did. Five pounds of beans are coming my way for $102.50 w/ shipping included. I know. That’s simply an insane price, but they are a tiny farm and quite honestly, don’t want to be anything bigger. Plus they send me a Xmas card every year! She said that more beans will be ripe enough for picking and roasting in August. If you want to know the source, ask Grim for my address and I’ll share it with you.

  4. D-FENS says:

    What’s GDP (or GSP?) growth compared with other countries/states?

  5. anon (the good one) says:

    so can you remind me again what’s the beef that the extreme right wing entitled class has with NJ?

    grim says:
    July 7, 2015 at 6:40 am
    Looking at this from a GDP per capita perspective, NJ would be the 13th largest economy in the world (based on IMF) or 11th (based on World Bank). This makes us larger than Australia, Sweden, Canada, France, UK, Japan, Italy, Spain, etc etc.

    Like I said, stinks like money.

  6. D-FENS says:

    5 – Tax rates, civil rights violations, and corruption.

  7. Libturd in the City says:

    “so can you remind me again what’s the beef that the extreme right wing entitled class has with NJ?”

    Freud would have had a field day with you. Your ability to completely block out what you don’t want to see or hear is approaching mental disorder status. Google inattentional blindness. Or choose not to. I’m betting you’ll just ignore this too. For you, it’s probably better to be ignorant. Like a retard.

  8. Comrade Nom Deplume, Land Snark says:

    [6] D-FENS

    But I’m willing to accept all of that in NJ if it keeps the anons on that side of the river.

  9. Comrade Nom Deplume, Land Snark says:
  10. Libturd in the City says:

    Nice. I saw a good anti Obama sticker this past week in Nashville.


    I saw another one that simply said LOL, with the Obama ‘O’ in the middle. Pretty clever.

  11. Comrade Nom Deplume, Land Snark says:

    Now I know why lawyers like democratic presidents


    For the past several years, I estimate that 80% of my legal billing was due to Obamacare or the push for gay partner benefits.

    So I don’t mind so much that Obama wants to redistribute my income; he gave it to me in the first place. BWAHAHAHAHA!

  12. Libturd in the City says:

    Interesting and something I always presumed as I witnessed this frequently in college.

    Kids of Helicopter Parents Are Sputtering Out

    “Overinvolved parents and rigidly structured childhoods suffer psychological blowback in college.”


  13. grim says:

    Babying kids ends up producing big babies, who could have known?

  14. grim says:

    Look – Sometimes you just gotta let little Caleb sit on a rusty metal Tonka dump truck and ride it down the biggest hill in town, which we know will result in absolute disaster, at best two skinned knees, at worst a broken arm. It’s an important life lesson that you just won’t learn any other way. Too many kids have grown up not having jumped a BMX bike over a pit of burning pallets, and this is a huge problem for America. We’re all a bunch of pussies with stupid names now.

  15. Fast Eddie says:

    Libturd [12],

    That article is dead on. I work in a sea of millennials, all top grads from top skills with IQs off the charts but they are so soft, so straight, so delicate in so many ways that some days I laugh and other days, I want to drink.

  16. Libturd in the City says:


    Your post was just too spot on. I rode one of those old rusty tonka pick-up trucks down by neighbors cemented driveway, fortunate enough to have bailed out when I hit the sidewalk only to watch the truck get lodged under the rear wheel of a station wagon passing by. We ran quicker than light from the scene. Scraped knees and all. Also built the ramp (a 2 x 8 supported by a bucket) and jumped through flaming piles of cardboard (no pallets behind the Cumberland Farms). We stopped doing it when the wood slipped off the bucket and my buddy did a mltiple endo through the flames only to land on his elbows. I question how I am still alive. I did lose one friend in a horrific drowning when he was playing in the sewers and a flash storm occurred. Very sad. At the time, the papers reported it as if the kids went for a swim, but the reality is that we all used to play in those sewers all of the time. The kid lived two houses down from me and his parents never really recovered.


  17. Juice Box says:

    “Too many kids have grown up not having jumped a BMX bike over a pit of burning pallets, and this is a huge problem”.

    We had a nice size figure 8 dirt track setup in the woods near our house. One summer we brought shovels and picks from home and built a few berms on the turns and a nice size jump with an 8 ft ramp setup in a dry stream bed. We spent the better part of the summer racing there every day. One kid on his Mongoose launched himself off that jump at least 12 feet in the air and struck a tree, he was pretty busted up.

    Town got wind of what we were doing all summer in their woods and sent in a backhoe to dig it up, and then cops would patrol the new “dirt road” the backhoe created, to make sure we weren’t recreating our BMX track. We tried a few times to rebuild it even went into the woods late one night with flashlights and shovels. The cops would show up and chase us away. We being a bunch of smarta**s*sses took our shovels and picks to that new “dirt road” and dug a pit 10 ft wide, 2ft long and 2 ft deep and then covered it with branches and leaves. Cop car patrol drove over it and the front wheels got stuck, watching from a few yards away in thick underbrush we laughed our as**ses off and ran away though the woods like a bunch of wild kids in Lord of the Flies. Good Times.

  18. Libturd in the City says:

    It’s tough today. One of my kids just turned ten and he is really careless and has very little common sense. I don’t even trust him enough to cross a busy street as he can be too absent-minded to look both ways. He’s just not careful. Sadly, when I was ten, if I missed the bus, my parents would make me walk a mile and a half to school crossing many much more major roads. Times HAVE really changed. He’s a great athlete and student, but the kid just can’t solve a puzzle for sh1t.

  19. Alex says:


    Lib, the article was spot-on. These over involved, over protective, pushy helicopter parents have rendered their children into fragile, indecisive, neurotic, softies. What a shame.

  20. Comrade Nom Deplume, Asleep in Boston says:

    [12] lib

    I sent it to Mrs Deplume. Gonna be a heated conversation tonight.

  21. Comrade Nom Deplume, Thankfully Not Greek says:

    [18] libturd,

    They are all a bit absent minded at that age. But lil gator has so much going on that if a little 10YO is all you have to worry about, consider yourself blessed. I’d swap with you in a NY minute.

    Salt mine beckons early today. Be well

  22. Juice Box says:

    re: # 12 – “Overinvolved parents and rigidly structured childhoods suffer psychological blowback in college”

    And way way beyond college. Don’t be surpised is your 30 year old “kid” invites you to teacher parent day at Adult Preschool.

    Latest trend in Hipsterville is ‘Adult Preschool’


  23. Comrade Nom Deplume, Thankfully Not Greek says:

    Just back to share this tidbit: HS friend posted reply to my post on FB and lamented fact that we were going to wind up like Greece. Another HS friend and erstwhile client, who attended Harvard, asked “why, what’s happening in Greece?”

    Harvard. Yup.

  24. Libturd in the City says:

    I was a 5-year veteran of residence life (maybe longer). I saw this with overprotected freshman day in and day out since as an RA and dorm manager I ended up being as close to these cream puff’s parents as they were going to get. It was utterly disturbing. I recall we hosted a Thanksgiving Dinner in our largest dorm. We had broiled like eight turkeys. I was the only one there out of 700 residents who knew how to carve a turkey. And sadly, I was a vegetarian at the time. I could have really used an electric knife.

  25. xolepa says:

    (17) Great story. Reminds me of when I was younger, we walked to the 287 overpass after a two foot snowfall. Pounded a state trooper car with snowballs as he drove by. Statee got out of the car looking and yelling at us. We yelled nanananana. He couldn’t touch us. We were 50 feet uphill and the closest exit was 2 miles down the highway.

  26. Libturd in the City says:

    Adult preschool or new fetish?


  27. xolepa says:

    One for Nom:
    My oldest had his friend over several years ago, kid was entering Law school. His father is an Ortho. I joined their conversation, mentioning somehow the words ‘Eminent Domain’. The kid turns around and says, ‘hey, I heard of those words, what does it mean?’ I educated him and left the room.

  28. Ragnar says:

    One time I rode my bike on a rainy day, was riding back home to my front porch stairs, brakes failed, bike ran straight into front step, back tire went straight up, threw me into a flip, and I miraculously landed on my feet standing in front of my door. That could have turned out so much worse.

  29. D-FENS says:

    @mikedohertynj: Mayor Fulop will pay in property taxes on $739K as much as a suburban #NJ property taxpayer does on about $250K http://t.co/hJbzPZlVvI

  30. Juice Box says:

    We aren’t going to be Greece. Anyone who has been there knows they are all a bunch of layabouts on the dole. That is nothing like the USA right?


  31. Juice Box says:

    re # 30 – Yeah I pass on Ogden Avenue in Jersey City at any price and taxes. Mayor Fulop will get to enjoy his deck while watching the varios activities in the projects of Hoboken, just below his home. NO thanks…….


  32. Ragnar the Magnificent says:


    Helicopter parenting is an over reaction of Gen Xrs to how they were raised. The movie “Over the Edge” from 1979 is more like how we grew up. Tell them JJ.

    To quote a funny movie making rounds on cable call ACOD – Adult Children of Divorce. The shrink says ” You were the most emotionally undernourished and cared for generation in the history of the country.”

    Sort of Alex of Family Ties being Reagan conservatives vs hippy 60s parents.

  33. Why bike jump burning pallets when you can while away the hours building gunpowder bombs?

  34. D-FENS says:

    @Mark_J_Perry: Report: Fracking To Help U.S. Manufacturing Costs To Fall Below China http://t.co/uy3uboSoOw

  35. D-FENS says:

    I believe helicopter parenting is a result of advanced mobile technologies.

  36. jcer says:

    32. It is a developing area(His view is probably fantastic and the hood has a good coffee place and a store that sells nice beer close by, and oh yeah a pet boutique…definitely hipsterville), it is disingenuous to talk about property taxes there, when it was assessed it was worth 400k. The mayor is way overpaying(2012 was 415k, he’s paying 300k more?) that house is not super nice. Also JC tax payers get very little for their money, the vast majority of people using the schools are dead broke hence the abbott funding. $7700 is near 2% of the property value when it was assessed. The way I look at it I pay a PILOT on my condo in JC, it is between 1.5% and 2% of the value of the property, in exchange I get no garbage service, no schools I can use, I don’t really get police service, they don’t take care of the roads, compared to suburbia it is a rip off. If people had to pay real property taxes in the High Rise condos and apartment buildings for JC level services nothing would get built.

  37. box (32)-

    You should see Fulop’s current house, near Van Vorst. Right next to a basketball court where they sling dope all day. Never lifted a finger to try and stop it, either.

  38. Love to see Fulop’s precious Ezekiel and Caitlin rise to the top at Dickinson.

  39. Pre-BMX I found that a pre-banana seat 20″ wheeled bike from probably the late 50’s or early 60’s (we probably bought it at a garage sale) jumped better than any of the high rise handlebar banana seat bikes in our garage, so that was my jumping bike. Black single speed with zero-rise turned-back bars. I was jumping that bike until I was 16 and my 17 year old girlfriend came by in the drivers ed car. They next day at school she told me that she saw me. I was thinking she was impressed with my fab stunts as we would set up ramps in the street. I inquired as to what she saw me doing. She said, “You were riding this…little…bike.” That was my last day on 20″ wheels.

  40. Only things you can learn at Dickinson are how to file serial numbers off handguns and dispose of corpses.

  41. Picture of Bebo in the hall of honor at Dickinson.

  42. jcer says:

    I used to live over there, Wayne street. Laughed my ass off when they built the 600k condos next to where Bebo sells his dope and the bodega that conducts a Dominican lottery. Somebody is getting a bribe there, I always wondered why they didn’t crack down on it.

  43. The Dominican joint on the corner of Grove is the bomb.

    My storeroom guys won that numbers game more than once. Nice payouts.

  44. jcer says:

    39 Fulop is as corrupt as they come, he is owned lock stock and barrel by the Menedez machine. His kids will go to charter schools and McNair, no PS in JC and they won’t need to get in on merits or by chance, they’ll get in because the fix is in. He has no kids and isn’t married so it is less of a problem. He makes Jerry Healy look like a boy scout, which is scary and shows how ambition corrupted the reformer yet again in JC.

  45. Libturd in the City says:

    It’s pretty amazing how many of us have ties to ChIlLtOwN. Yeah, I just did that.

  46. Banco Popular Trust Preferred Shares says:

    The End Is Nigh (grim loves FlabMax edition):

    WARSAW, Poland — Jewish officials are furious over a video installation at a Polish museum that shows naked men and women playing a game of tag in a gas chamber.
    Efraim Zuroff, director of the Simon Wiesenthal Center’s office in Jerusalem, called the installation at the Museum of Contemporary Art in Krakow “so offensive and so disgusting that we found it necessary to protest.”
    “Game of Tag,” made in 1999 by Polish artist Artur Zmijewski, has for years been accused of taking the Holocaust lightly.
    It was displayed among the works of more than 20 artists at a temporary exhibition on the Holocaust running from May 15 through Oct. 31. Zmijewski’s video has been shown at museums in Germany and Estonia, where it has also caused protests.
    The World Jewish Congress and Yad Vashem, Israel’s Holocaust memorial, have also asked the museum to remove the installation.
    In response, the museum recently put it behind an enclosure with a warning.
    But Zuroff and other Jewish officials say it isn’t enough. Zuroff said it is “simply incomprehensible” that the video is being shown in Poland, where Nazi Germany killed millions of Jews and non-Jews.
    Jonathan Ornstein, the executive director of the Jewish Community Center of Krakow, a city with a once-vibrant Jewish community nearly wiped out in the Holocaust, said survivor groups from around the world have contacted him recently to tell him how upset they are.
    “They feel that it shows a lack of respect for the victims, that it is not necessary and that it takes the Holocaust lightly,” Ornstein said.
    The museum’s director, Maria Anna Potocka, said in a statement on Tuesday that her museum means no disrespect to the memory of the Holocaust, saying “we have tried to awaken (the) young generation’s empathy with the tragedy of the Holocaust by stirring their imagination.”

  47. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Great stories today. Lib, that story of your friend that was swept away is a sad story. Would never want to go through what those parents went through. Thanks for sharing.

    I’m busy right now, but I have my stories from bikes, skateboards, and dirt bikes. Dirt bikes were the best. We used to have a saying. You are not riding if you don’t bust. Miss those 2 strokes with the wicked power band. Now you have the 4 stroke bs. Still cool, but nothing like the 2 strokes back in the day.

  48. yome says:

    Start of the end for Uber?

    Uber: Ride-Hailing Service to Cease Operations in Broward County, Fla. on July 31
    Uber officials announced the decision Tuesday in response to a Broward County law requiring drivers to obtain a county chauffeur registration, a car permit and background check.

  49. Banco Popular Trust Preferred Shares says:

    The End Is Nigh (NJ RE Report is one step behind Edition):


    Tattling was the last thing 20-year-old Lillian Carone had in mind when she started following her 17-year-old sister, Willow, on Facebook and Instagram. Lillian also follows some of Willow’s friends and finds that by using this larger network, she can keep tabs on her sister’s whereabouts.

    In the era of helicopter parenting, meet the helicopter sibling.

    The sisters, from Milltown in central New Jersey, attended the same high school, and Lillian says that makes it easy to figure out what her sister is up to. “I’ve seen it all,” she says.

    If Willow doesn’t post a photo showing her location, her friends might do so, the older sister finds. These somewhat unintentional updates can actually be the most useful because her sister isn’t filtering them, Lillian says.

    As mobile tech-equipped teens become adults, get jobs and leave their parents’ homes, experts say they are seeing the sibling emerge as a newly empowered breed of family guardian. Digital technology that older parents often haven’t yet mastered enables watchful siblings to keep tabs on their brethren and relay key information, often filtered, back to parents in ways that keep both sides happy.

    Lillian Carone follows her sister, Willow, and some of her friends on social media. She shows the Instagram app on her phone at her home in Milltown, N.J. ENLARGE
    Lillian Carone follows her sister, Willow, and some of her friends on social media. She shows the Instagram app on her phone at her home in Milltown, N.J. PHOTO: BRIAN

    Helicopter siblings sometimes start young. Stacy Hawkins, a 30-year-old who works in television in Dallas, says the older two of her three children, a 12-year-old girl and 13-year-old boy, take turns acting like the parent when they are together. Nothing is off limits, she says, from why one sibling shouldn’t watch a certain movie on Netflix to how the other should organize his bedroom. When arguments get out of hand, the parents take what they call the “Romeo and Juliet” approach: Both children get punished, even if just one was trying to control.

    Madeline Levine, a psychologist in Kentfield, Calif., says siblings who hover may simply be copying behavior modeled by their mothers or fathers. When parents focus relentlessly on academics, extracurriculars and college applications, some children begin to do the same with younger siblings, says Dr. Levine, author of the 2012 book “Teach Your Children Well,” a critique of helicopter parenting based largely on her clinical experience.

    Sometimes, helicopter siblings are trying to cope with their own stress. Dr. Levine says if a child feels tightly managed by a parent, he or she may deal with the pressure by trying to control siblings, in a sort of trickle-down system.

    A tendency to hover can emerge because of what relationship psychologists call “intimacy imbalance,” when one sibling wants to feel closer and the other wants more autonomy, says Jonathan Caspi, professor at Montclair State University, in New Jersey, and author of the 2011 book “Sibling Aggression.” It’s a strategy that is rarely successful, he says. The sibling looking for more closeness might overextend his or her reach.

    Technology makes it easy. Social media and mobile phones mean siblings have the means to engage in what Dr. Caspi says amounts to “digital tattling.”

    It is crucial that the sibling in the surveillance role use discretion in passing information along to parents, Lillian Carone says. She says she wants her sister Willow to trust her, keep her in the loop and not block her on social media. But she says she wants to balance the trust with the need to inform her parents if Willow were ever to get into real trouble.

    Lillian Carone, left, poses for a selfie with her sister, Willow, 17. Lillian says it is crucial for the sibling in the surveillance mode to maintain trust and use discretion when passing along information to parents.

    When Lillian sees that Willow and her friends aren’t where she said they would be, the older sibling takes a screenshot of the post and texts it to her sister, sometimes with a chiding message.

    Willow, of course, is aware that she is being watched. “Sometimes I get annoyed and just turn my shoulder and ignore it,” she says. “But I don’t think I’ve ever told [Lillian] to just knock it off.” For the most part, the younger sibling says she thinks the hovering is helpful and finds she is more responsible on social media and in real life because of her sister’s advice.

    Dr. Levine says there is an important distinction between a sibling who acts as a mentor, and a sibling who seeks pure control. In a controlling relationship, one party withdraws support if the other doesn’t buy in, she says. In a mentorship relationship, the support continues whether the sibling took the advice or not.

    From a parenting perspective, Adele Faber, co-author of “Siblings Without Rivalry,” a widely read 1987 book, says parents of younger children should avoid assigning one child the role of caretaker. Over time, it can lead to antagonisms between siblings who feel either controlled on the one hand, or ignored on the other. And roles such as these eventually need to be shed, as children develop their own sense of responsibility and self-management. If these roles are firmly established in youth, they can be harder to shake, Ms. Faber says.

    For adult siblings struggling with helicoptering, Ms. Faber offers a more straightforward approach. At some point, she says, you just have to turn to your sibling and say, “I hear you, but bear with me. Save your ouches for yourself. I’ll deal with my own.”

    Jeff Phillips, 46, uses an app that tracks his younger brother’s whereabouts in the Kansas City, Mo., area where they live. Jeff can see when Chris passes by his house, gets to work or goes out on the town. Chris also uses the app, called Life360.

    When Jeff arrived at his brother’s date spot, both brothers acted as if the run-in was a chance encounter. But they both knew. “I actually loved it,” Chris says. “It made the date way less formal. And you always want your family to weigh in on a romantic interest, don’t you?”

  50. 1987 Condo says:

    Seems to me if you drive for Uber or similar you should have the same rules/requirements as any livery/cab service? I had to get and pay for a complete background and fingerprint check so I could run a charity Poker tournament.

  51. JJ says:

    Ten places with lowest property taxes.


    Median taxes

    Tunica, MS


    Bibb, AL


    Walker, AL


    Blount, AL


    Amelia, VA


    Butler, PA


    Lincoln, OK


    Fayette, TN


    Meriwether, GA


    Saint Clair, AL


  52. Libturd in the City says:

    I was in Tunica last Friday. One should be paid to live there. I’m sure the fact that there are over twenty slot machines per resident in Tunica has something to do with it. The mosquitos and humidity there are outrageous. When we opened the car door to get out, about 20 mosquitos would fly in. They would go on to bite you right through your clothes until you killed them all.

  53. D-FENS says:

    Ex-CNN Anchor [Lynne Russell] Tells Gun Control Activists To ‘Shut The F*** Up’


  54. nwnj says:

    Uber = Napster for cars

  55. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Wow, all these attacks about the nj economy, yet we would be ranked 23 if we were a country. If you are interested in making money, why would you ever want to leave here. North and central jersey basically drive that 23 ranking. Such a small area, yet such a strong economic punch.

  56. The Great Pumpkin says:

    52- Look at the tax savings you could enjoy, only 300 a year. Anyone bitching about taxes, go live in these places. You will realize real quick why you want to live in a higher tax location like nj.

  57. 1987 Condo says:

    #57..I believe those are annual tax figures. I have friends in South Carolina in nice homes paying $800 a year.

  58. Ragnar says:

    Jared’s next advertising job can be pitching Oscar Meyer c0ckta1l we1ners.

  59. number2 says:

    New Jersey ranks 49th among US states for its fiscal health, based on its fiscal solvency in five separate categories.


  60. Bystander says:

    If true, Jared will be trying a new backdoor product called the Pumpernickel foot long.

  61. Ragnar says:

    Good info. As usual, NJ compares poorly vs other states on things that politicians touch. To the extent that NJ’s economy is large, and people are wealthy, it’s despite rather than because of their elected and unelected government people and policies.
    How does NJ compare to Greece on these budget and liability matters?

  62. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Where do they get these numbers from? 135 billion in unfunded pension liabilities? Also, what are the metrics behind this? Do they take into account that nj was hit hard by the recession and is slowly coming out of it? That we were also hit by sandy during this same time period. Of course the federal help was pathetic for the nj sandy victims based on what other states were given for natural disasters. Also, does this study take into account how many federal dollars are taken from our state and given to other states? Where is that factor in the study?

    “New Jersey’s financial ranking in FY 2013 was based on several areas of financial weakness. The state’s revenues fell short of expenses, and long-term liabilities were two times larger than total assets. Unfunded pension liabilities amounted to $135 billion, with unfunded OPEB adding a further $66 billion and total primary government debt, an additional $40 billion. In total, these three items accounted for nearly half of the state’s personal income.”

    number2 says:
    July 7, 2015 at 4:14 pm
    New Jersey ranks 49th among US states for its fiscal health, based on its fiscal solvency in five separate categories.


  63. The Great Pumpkin says:

    64- It’s funny, we are the least dependent state on the fed govt and they come out with a study stating that we are almost dead last in terms of fiscally healthy states. So stop taking so much money from us!!

  64. Libturd at home says:

    Well Greece’s debt is about 180% of GDP. NJ’s, if you go with 100 billion as the unfunded pension and healthcare liability (which I think is pretty close), then our debt is 300% of GDP (NJ tax revenues). It’s a good thing that pension liability is not much of a political issue in NJ.

  65. 1987 Condo says:

    NJ can be in as good shape as NY, just increase gas tax about 30 cents, raise sales tax to same 8.25% as NYC and add 3% income tax surcharge (all income levels) like NYC.

  66. JJ says:

    NJ has a lot of broke dicks who inherited shore houses and are blue collar without a big pot of cash.

  67. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Lib, when will that pension obligation have to be payed out all at once? Never. So why is the total figure brought up in arguments over the pension issue? That’s a scare tactic. The payments are spread over a 100 years, but it’s treated as this “total debt” makeup to make it look worse than it is. Same crap with social security. That’s a bs move to scare people into thinking the situation is an apacolype based on some made up giant figure that will never be payed all at once. They don’t even know what the figure is, yet we are spewing out giant debt totals like this study did with 135 billion. Where does that number even come from?

    Libturd at home says:
    July 7, 2015 at 5:02 pm
    Well Greece’s debt is about 180% of GDP. NJ’s, if you go with 100 billion as the unfunded pension and healthcare liability (which I think is pretty close), then our debt is 300% of GDP (NJ tax revenues). It’s a good thing that pension liability is not much of a political issue in NJ.

  68. The Great Pumpkin says:

    69- what is the total payout to current social security and pension recipients for 2014? Why don’t we focus on that number instead of some magical bs and take it from there.

  69. Libturd at home says:

    Last I read and, of course these numbers change with the market, are that the funds RUN OUT of money in 2024-2027. They will stop paying in full in 2019.

    Read this:


  70. 1987 Condo says:

    #71….then they go to a “pay as you go” and finally end the Defined Benefit pension for new employees. Actually, I think after Christie leaves they will either “freeze” the current plan or go to a 401k style for new employees, or both. The obligation can then be better estimated and the amount of the revenue increases (or bond offerings) can be established going forward.

  71. When I was growing up, Tunica Co was the poorest county in the entire US.

    We played Tunica HS in football every year. Everything was allowed, short of slingblades. Not a football fan, but those were crazy good games.

  72. Tunica Co is also the home of the deep fried pickle.

    Not a Jared joke.

  73. Libturd at home says:

    The healthcare numbers listed in that report I linked to are astounding.

    You can blame some of the troubles on the state not paying their part, but a lot of this has to do with a plan that was way to rich to begin with. The health plan is simply unbelievable.

  74. The Great Pumpkin says:

    The study states that health benefits cost the state 2.8 billion after offsetting for employee contributions. What are the employee contributions? How much would that bring the total up to?

    Healthcare costs are out of control. Based on 245,000 people using the benefits, how much do these plans cost per employee/retiree if the costs are 3-5 billion(no idea what % employees contribute to their health benefits but on page 9 it states the quoted number in the above paragraph)? Talking 15-20 grand per enrollee? That’s robbery. There has to be a better way with healthcare costs. There has to. Health benefits shouldn’t be costing that much. That’s insane. How can you justify those costs? In five years, that’s a 100,000 with no interest. So the avg employee is giving away 100,000 of his/hers compensation in a 5 year period towards health insurance? Wow. Just do the math with compounding for a 30 year period. There has to be a better way. This is such wasteful spending. It’s robbery.

  75. The Great Pumpkin says:

    76- who signed the employees up for these plans? If they don’t accept the insurance, what is their compensation? Otherwise, this a pure robbery move by the health insurance industry. How many people need Cadillac plans in their 20s, 30s, or 40s? Those are good investment years and instead these govt employees have to watch their compensation get flushed down health insurance plans? Wow!!! That money could have been directed towards a retirement or pension fund.

  76. The Great Pumpkin says:

    New Jersey on Thursday will consider offering a large tax break to JPMorgan Chase & Co. to bring about 2,000 jobs to Jersey City, a state official said Tuesday.

    The bank, which was awarded $224 million in tax incentives to bring 1,000 jobs to the state last May, submitted an application for the additional incentives about four months ago, said Al Koeppe, chairman of the New Jersey Economic Development Authority, which administers the state incentive programs.

    He said he could not recall the exact number of jobs, but said it was close to the 2,150 figure reported by the Wall Street Journal Tuesday. Bloomberg News said the company would get an incentive of $188 million. Koeppe said he couldn’t recall the exact amount.

    “This is obviously a major project,” said Koeppe. “The fact that it is before the board suggests there is merit to the application.”

    He said the bank was looking at moving the jobs to the Midwest, perhaps Ohio, if it did not move them to New Jersey.

    J.P. Morgan Chase got its last incentive in return for committing to retain 2,600 jobs in Jersey City, and add 1,000 more, to create a technology and operations hub. The company said then that it expected its workforce in Jersey City to rise to 5,600 by the time the expansion is complete, the new jobs were created and at least 1,700 jobs are moved there from around the New York area.


  77. Libturd at home says:

    “76- who signed the employees up for these plans?”

    We all did. Every time you pull the lever for an elected official in NJ, you are approving of their actions. Talk to Anon. He’ll explain it to you.

  78. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yup. They have to eliminate the influence of money on govt. We are at the point where you don’t even get a choice on Election Day. The only choice you are presented with is the best money can buy. Winning elections shouldn’t be about how much money is in your war chest. It’s insanity to have your country run by individuals who came to power based solely on the ability to collect political donations.

    Libturd at home says:
    July 7, 2015 at 7:54 pm
    “76- who signed the employees up for these plans?”

    We all did. Every time you pull the lever for an elected official in NJ, you are approving of their actions. Talk to Anon. He’ll explain it to you.

  79. Libturd at home says:

    Campaign contributions should be outlawed due to their inherent conflict of interest. Let each candidate have a one page entry in a voter guide. That’s it. Outlaw lobbying too. Both will never happen. Never.

  80. God, someone just shoot Punkin in the head, and let’s get on with it.

  81. The Great Pumpkin says:

    This would solve so many problems, but you are right….never will happen.

    Libturd at home says:
    July 7, 2015 at 8:53 pm
    Campaign contributions should be outlawed due to their inherent conflict of interest. Let each candidate have a one page entry in a voter guide. That’s it. Outlaw lobbying too. Both will never happen. Never.

  82. Ron Jermany says:

    14. Grim,

    That died when Action Park shut down.

  83. Juice Box says:

    re: # 71 – Christie is gone is 2017, term limits. Dems are positioning for a go at it.A few new taxes or fees should fix it right? Bend over……

  84. Juice Box says:

    When Pumpkin gets bent over for tax increases in his double wide all you will hear is thank you sir may I have another..Then only then sans Vaseline will he capitulate.

  85. Juice Box says:

    rem#84 – Action Park re-opened!! Shades if the early 80s? Inflation and skin grafts?

  86. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [28];

    Subway never wanted Jared as a pitchman, and certainly not for as long as he’s lasted. He basically ran a guerrilla PR campaign to force them to pick him up. Now they’ve got an airtight excuse to drop him. Methinks they’re not crying about it. If I were a more cynical man…

  87. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “Same old story. Happens with garbage pickup first. “Big Waste” comes in and gives them a contract for a few years that does maybe save them a few bucks. Next year, the town or city auctions off all their garbage trucks. The year after, the contract with “Big Waste” is up, and the price for the new contract is higher. Next contract, higher yet. Now they’re stuck, because they don’t have the money to buy garbage trucks even if they wanted too switch back. They are now at the mercy of the private company. ”

    “Substantially the same dispatchers will allegedly earn more money, the vendor will certainly make a healthy profit on top of that and somehow the city will pay less for the service; the wonder of ‘performance-driven’ metrics sounds more like BS to me.

    For what it’s worth, Lawrence Township used to staff its dispatch center with police officers, not civilians. IXP matched dispatcher salaries the first year of its contract and has now gone to the ‘performance-based’ model, whatever that is.”


  88. Ragnar says:

    Government or its agents should no more be picking up your garbage than be cutting your grass or cleaning your house, or cooking your dinner. Imagine how dumb that would be. Then ask yourself why we let them educate our children, on the same management and incentive structure.
    Outsourcing the provision of government services doesn’t equal privatization, btw.

  89. joyce says:

    Use smaller words.

  90. Essex says:

    91. They don’t necessarily have to educate your kids “Ragnar”. But you know that I would imagine. You can send your child anywhere you can afford to and they can gain entry.

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