Tallest, but only for a moment

From the Star Ledger:

Jersey City tower becomes tallest residential building in N.J.

A new Jersey City tower is the tallest residential building in New Jersey—for now.

At 713 feet high and 69 stories, Urban Ready Life (URL) Harborside 1 towers above nearby Trump Plaza and the Merrill Lynch building. City officials, construction workers and the project’s developers celebrated the building’s superlative on Thursday with a flag-raising ceremony. But if other developers get their way, URL’s status as the tallest residential building will be short-lived. A 950-foot residential building is planned for 99 Hudson Street. Journal Squared, which began construction last year, is also poised to become one of the state’s tallest residential buildings.

Developers Ironstate and Mack-Cali touted the tower’s height and said that the project will be a landmark in the city. The threat of being usurped as the tallest residential building doesn’t lessen URL’s impact on the city’s skyline, representatives said.

“We think URL is to residential towers what the Chrysler Building is N.Y.,” Michael DeMarco, president of Mack-Cali, said in a statement. “The Chrysler held the title for tallest building for a short time before the Empire State was built. What was important was how the Chrysler changed how skyscrapers were viewed forever.”

David Barry, president of Ironstate, said the building will be a “timeless milestone in the trajectory of Jersey City.”

“I think it’s symbolic of Jersey City’s vibrancy, its growth and its importance in this state,” he told the crowd on Thursday.

The $330 million development is the first phase of three planned towers, which will consist of 2,358 residences. The first tower will have 763 rentals and will start leasing in the winter of 2016. Attendees on Thursday were able to take an elevator to the 57th floor—which is currently open to the outside— to check out the building’s view of Manhattan. Mayor Steve Fulop said the project will “redefine the entire Gold Coast.”

“It is remaking the entire New Jersey skyline,” Fulop told NJ Advance Media while touring the 57th floor of the building. “We couldn’t be more proud of the growth of Jersey City. The fact that residents fill these buildings up as soon as we build them speaks to the demand of Jersey City.”

This entry was posted in New Development, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

62 Responses to Tallest, but only for a moment

  1. grim says:

    From HousingWire:

    CFPB, DOJ fine Hudson City $27M for mortgage discrimination violations

    The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and the Department of Justice announced a joint action against Hudson City Savings Bank for providing unequal access to mortgage credit in Black and Hispanic neighborhoods.

    If the court approves the consent, Hudson City will pay $25 million in direct loan subsidies to qualified borrowers in the affected communities, $2.25 million in community programs and outreach and a $5.5 million penalty.

    This represents the largest redlining settlement in history to provide such direct subsidies. And according to the Department of Justice, this won’t be the last, with an increased number of mortgage redlining investigations underway.

    This complaint alleges that Hudson City illegally provided unequal access to credit to neighborhoods in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut and Pennsylvania.

    The bank located branches and loan officers, selected mortgage brokers, and marketed products to avoid and thereby discourage prospective borrowers in predominantly Black and Hispanic communities.

  2. grim says:

    Ironic, since they were always known as a hyper-conservative lender to those who didn’t need loans, with their strategy being primarily focused on extremely high credit quality, high credit scores, high income, low loan to value, and high collateral value.

    Really, the average white person probably wouldn’t have qualified for a HCSB mortgage.

  3. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You are lost. Always defending bs. You have a simple outlook. Emails and technology made a workers life easier? Wow. All they have done is force people to be tied to their jobs 24/7, always doing something with work. Technology has sped up and eliminated the easy tasks and increased the % of your work day that is occupied with more difficult tasks. Just stop with your bs.

    leftwing says:
    September 26, 2015 at 9:55 am
    Pumps, Pumps, pumps….tsk, tsk

    Please try to string together a logical thought

    “I would also say that almost every job has become tougher in the past 50 years. If you have a job, chances are you are doing the productivity equivalent of 5 workers 30 years ago.”

    These two statements are unrelated. Difficulty has zero to do with productivity. In fact, productivity nearly by definition makes and given task easier.

    35 years ago I applied to three colleges and it was an arduous, super time consuming process. My kid is applying to ten colleges with a few clicks of the button. He is easily multiples more productive than I was, and is working much less.

    “Meanwhile, where did all these productivity gains by the workers go? Yes, to the profit kings. Worker is more productive, the owner gets it all, that’s fair.”

    Uhm, yes. Because usually the worker had zero to do with the productivity gains. A secretary working 40 hrs a week now is hugely more productive than a secretary working 40 hrs a week a generation ago. They each worked forty hours, where did the productivity gain come from? Inventors of email, cell phones, online merchant services, etc, etc. They made the productivity, they get the benefits.

    A laborer is digging a hole with a garden tool is given a shovel by his employer. He finishes the hole in 15 minutes rather than an afternoon. Under your logic he should look at his employer and say “thanks for buying the shovel, now pay me more”.

  4. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yes, now the whole family works and still make the same as a single worker household in the 60’s. Work was harder back then, right?

    “According to the Center for American Progress on the topic of work and family life balance, “in 1960, only 20 percent of mothers worked. Today, 70 percent of American children live in households where all adults are employed.” I don’t care who stays home and who works in terms of gender (work opportunity equality for all – it’s a family choice). Either way, when all adults are working (single or with a partner), that’s a huge hit to the American family and free-time in the American household.”

  5. leftwing says:

    Action. Reaction. Unintended consequence.

    As a result, HCSB will likely get out of loans altogether or go HNW only through something similar to a private bank.

    Looks like the regulators used branch *location* as a factor. So now if a bank has branches on Fifth Ave it is discrimatory to not have locations in BedStuy?

  6. grim says:

    The next real estate bubble is going to be a whopper.

  7. grim says:

    The Fed is discriminatory because they won’t give me a 0% loan.

  8. leftwing says:

    “You are lost. Always defending bs. You have a simple outlook. Emails and technology made a workers life easier? Wow. All they have done is force people to be tied to their jobs 24/7, always doing something with work. Technology has sped up and eliminated the easy tasks and increased the % of your work day that is occupied with more difficult tasks. Just stop with your bs.”

    Yes, Donkey.

    Technology has sped up and eliminated the easy tasks. Which is why there is less, not more, available for those people who are simpler users of those tasks as opposed to the innovators or the business owners who invest the capital in those devices.

    And again, if you can turn on your reading comprehension helmet, I never said a person’s work life became easier with productivity. What I said is that any given task becomes easier. Twenty years ago making the filing deadline at the SEC required two boxes of paper along with a body to take them on a 1pm flight to DC. I can do all that from my laptop right now.

  9. leftwing says:

    Let me clarify the above, damn autocorrect.

    Here is the food chain – and rightfully so – of where the benefits go from an innovation that increases productivity. Highest to lowest order:

    The Innovator/Inventor – gets massive gains, he came up with the idea and got it to fruition

    The Implementer/Business Owner – gets most of the gains within his company from implementing. He took the risk of failure, made the necessary expenditures to acquire the innovation, and ensured it worked there.

    The Professional – gets some of the gains he personally originates from using the innovation. Microsoft Excel means as a banker I can close 15 deals a year rather than five, I will be paid more.

    The Employee – none. You’re working 40 hours a week regardless, get back to work.

    Pretty easy. Reward commensurate with relative contribution. The anti-Bernie.

  10. grim says:

    The Implementer/Business Owner – gets most of the gains within his company from implementing. He took the risk of failure, made the necessary expenditures to acquire the innovation, and ensured it worked there.

    Not in the case that the improvement was necessary to remain price competitive. In which case, the doors stay open, nobody gains much of anything. The worker should probably be happy they still have a job.

  11. Fast Eddie says:

    test

  12. leftwing says:

    “Yes, now the whole family works and still make the same as a single worker household in the 60′s. Work was harder back then, right?”

    Again you’re statements are unrelated.

    Addressing the first you have encapsulated the origin of my occasional rant against the NY suburbs. When the norm becomes two quasi-professional workers per household paid on NY metro wage scales the cost of living adjusts commensurately. The single wage earning family is priced out of that market (or has to ‘work harder’ to maintain his status quo).

    There can be many things to blame for the stagnant quality of life here even while both spouses work. Productivity is not one of them. If you want a ‘villain’, blame the social movements that provided all the opportunities for women to pursue worthwhile and well compensated careers. If we were back in history when only the male would work guess what? Homes and everyday living would be affordable on one salary.

  13. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Total spit in the workers face. Your position is loud and clear. Let me remind you, not everyone can be a business owner. A business requires workers to profit. So why do you totally shi! on workers in this equation? Based on how you think, you would be surprised how critical good workers are to making a company successful. It’s the single biggest factor in the success or failure of a business. Of course, you totally ignore this, just like all the other profit kings, who think they are the sole reason for their companies success. Jobs was the sole reason for apple’s success, right? Love the naive picture people paint.

    leftwing says:
    September 26, 2015 at 10:39 am
    Let me clarify the above, damn autocorrect.

    Here is the food chain – and rightfully so – of where the benefits go from an innovation that increases productivity. Highest to lowest order:

    The Innovator/Inventor – gets massive gains, he came up with the idea and got it to fruition

    The Implementer/Business Owner – gets most of the gains within his company from implementing. He took the risk of failure, made the necessary expenditures to acquire the innovation, and ensured it worked there.

    The Professional – gets some of the gains he personally originates from using the innovation. Microsoft Excel means as a banker I can close 15 deals a year rather than five, I will be paid more.

    The Employee – none. You’re working 40 hours a week regardless, get back to work.

    Pretty easy. Reward commensurate with relative contribution. The anti-Bernie.

  14. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Do you understand that technology has put most workers on the clock 24/7? You really have no clue. You don’t know what it feels like to get continuous emails from work, that must be answered, while on vacation. Yes, thanks technology, now a lot of workers are on the clock 24/7 and not being compensated for it….just be happy you have a job.

  15. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Lefty, this guy gets it. Just try to understand what he is saying. This is all you need to know to understand why it’s criminal what is happening with worker’s wages. Wages have nothing to do with fair compensation, and everything to do with what the market will bear! Please understand this, and then you will understand how workers are being cheated by the profit kings.

    “The promise of automation
    “We were told in the 60s and 70s that ‘automation’ would mean we would all work 3 or 4 day weeks. Instead those of us with jobs work 7 days and loads of people are out of work. It must be possible to share the benefits out a bit better than this!”
    Not from the point of view of the richest 1%, Robert. The way they see it, everything is for the best in this best of all possible worlds. (Did you realize that the best – indeed, the only really good way – of getting stinking rich is by chiselling money from the poor? You see, there are so many of them, they have so little energy or time to think, and that makes them act in dumb ways).

    Those utopian visions of the 50s, 60s and 70s were either innocently purveyed by dreamers – poets, SF writers, and the like – or deliberately put about by those with advantage to gain. Long ago, one of the best bosses I have ever worked for asked me one day, “Tom, how are prices set?” I replied, “Well, take the cost of raw materials plus the costs of manufacture and sales, plus some overhead and a fair markup…” He cut me off with a gesture. “No, that’s entirely wrong. Prices are set based on how much the market will bear”. I never forgot that, although I wish I had learned it 20 years sooner.

    Similarly, pay is set based on what the market will bear. If people can be found to do a job for a given compensation level, that is where the level will be set. There’s talk of market forces, but I stopped believing in those about the same time I stopped believing in gods and demons. The very rich and powerful people who ultimately own most of the world are naturally keen to get steadily richer and more powerful – which logically entails “never giving a sucker an even break” on a planetary scale (where everyone reading this thread is certainly one of the suckers). We are suckers not only when we buy, but when we sell our time – the only substantial wealth most of us will ever have.”

  16. leftwing says:

    Not a spit in the face. But if you are the lowest rung on the lowest ladder there is not much I can do for you than offer you the job.

    Move up the ladder.

    Last night I handed an unexpected check to a bottom ladder employee who came up with an idea that improved our business. It wasn’t a huge idea, and it wasn’t a massive check, but *he* innovated.

    Reward commensurate with relative contribution.

    Your comments and attitude are nothing more than a three legged donkey braying to be fed like American Pharoah.

  17. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if this women to work movement was created by some profit king. I look at the women entering the workforce much differently than you, I see them as flooding the worker market, with the profit kings taking advantage by paying what the market will bear. So wages stagnated and you are left now with the productivity of two workers making the same as one worker fourty years ago. These guys are robbing us blind, they were able to flood the job market and hold wages down so much so, that they now get two for the price of one. Fuc!ing criminal! How can you do this and still have a concious?

    leftwing says:
    September 26, 2015 at 10:54 am
    “Yes, now the whole family works and still make the same as a single worker household in the 60′s. Work was harder back then, right?”

    Again you’re statements are unrelated.

    Addressing the first you have encapsulated the origin of my occasional rant against the NY suburbs. When the norm becomes two quasi-professional workers per household paid on NY metro wage scales the cost of living adjusts commensurately. The single wage earning family is priced out of that market (or has to ‘work harder’ to maintain his status quo).

    There can be many things to blame for the stagnant quality of life here even while both spouses work. Productivity is not one of them. If you want a ‘villain’, blame the social movements that provided all the opportunities for women to pursue worthwhile and well compensated careers. If we were back in history when only the male would work guess what? Homes and everyday living would be affordable on one salary.

  18. leftwing says:

    Sorry, Pumps, could not get beyond the first sentence:

    ““We were told in the 60s and 70s that ‘automation’ would mean we would all work 3 or 4 day weeks”

    What jacka$$ said this and, worse, who are the morons that believed him?

    Sounds like a Jetsons episode. Where’s the robot housekeeper?

  19. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Knew it. Business owner who looks at his workers as piece of craps unless they are coming up with “great ideas” for your company. Best part, you provide him a little compensation for something that will make you much richer. If he was smart, he would have sold the idea to you instead of giving it away for a little compensation….this is exactly what you would do, too bad he is just a good worker trying to help the company he works for. He is not cutthroat and does not only care about himself. He should now tattoo sucker to his forehead.

    leftwing says:
    September 26, 2015 at 11:39 am
    Not a spit in the face. But if you are the lowest rung on the lowest ladder there is not much I can do for you than offer you the job.

    Move up the ladder.

    Last night I handed an unexpected check to a bottom ladder employee who came up with an idea that improved our business. It wasn’t a huge idea, and it wasn’t a massive check, but *he* innovated.

    Reward commensurate with relative contribution.

    Your comments and attitude are nothing more than a three legged donkey braying to be fed like American Pharoah.

  20. leftwing says:

    18.

    Alright guys, someone is going to be called on the carpet here. Who gave Pumps the secret decoder ring and handshake?

    He figured out our conspiracy. Corporate suites and business owners nationwide banded together to form the womens rights movement.

    Which one of you broke the silence and told him?

  21. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Go read some books, this was said by many smart individuals. They never realized how cutthroat the profit kings would be, because they were living in different times where unions were strong and the profit kings held in check.

    leftwing says:
    September 26, 2015 at 11:44 am
    Sorry, Pumps, could not get beyond the first sentence:

    ““We were told in the 60s and 70s that ‘automation’ would mean we would all work 3 or 4 day weeks”

    What jacka$$ said this and, worse, who are the morons that believed him?

    Sounds like a Jetsons episode. Where’s the robot housekeeper?

  22. Ben says:

    I bust my ass. I’m highly productive, maybe that’s why I’m able to make time to post on a blog. Posting on this blog should show you what type of person I am….means I’m not lazy and take time out of my schedule to try and promote change for the greater good. Btw, from 2009-2012, do you know how many co-workers retired or were laid off, and I had to pick up their slack? Every time someone was eliminated, it was divided and given to who was left. It’s not happening anymore, but that’s just because they pushed each worker to the limit on what they can take on. You are right, I just sit around and do nothing, but post all day.

    No, I’m saying, if you have all this time to make the amount of posts you do, you are severely overestimating how much work you do during the work day.

  23. leftwing says:

    20. Nice rant pumps. No facts, inaccurate assumptions, and illogical conclusions. Views change with the wind with no consistency from one thought to another.

    Are you sure you’re not my ex-wife? You sporting a camel toe?

  24. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Your argument sucks, so you resort to making me sound like some conspiracy nut because I said it wouldn’t surprise me if some profit kings had a hand in pushing women into the workforce.

    leftwing says:
    September 26, 2015 at 11:48 am
    18.

    Alright guys, someone is going to be called on the carpet here. Who gave Pumps the secret decoder ring and handshake?

    He figured out our conspiracy. Corporate suites and business owners nationwide banded together to form the womens rights movement.

    Which one of you broke the silence and told him?

  25. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I work 24/7. Get emails all the time needing all sorts of data and reports. I’m on salary. I have no set hours, but it is mandatory I be in office from 9:30 to 5:30. Quarter ends I have to work till God knows when and even on Saturdays. Thank god for Bergen county blue laws, or I would have to work on Sunday’s during crunch times. You like working on 4th of July? Great, I get a comped personnel day for it, but it’s f’en Fourth of July. You have walked a day in my shoes, so don’t judge.

    Ben says:
    September 26, 2015 at 11:50 am
    I bust my ass. I’m highly productive, maybe that’s why I’m able to make time to post on a blog. Posting on this blog should show you what type of person I am….means I’m not lazy and take time out of my schedule to try and promote change for the greater good. Btw, from 2009-2012, do you know how many co-workers retired or were laid off, and I had to pick up their slack? Every time someone was eliminated, it was divided and given to who was left. It’s not happening anymore, but that’s just because they pushed each worker to the limit on what they can take on. You are right, I just sit around and do nothing, but post all day.

    No, I’m saying, if you have all this time to make the amount of posts you do, you are severely overestimating how much work you do during the work day.

  26. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Lefty, also love your philosophy. You are a worker and at the bottom of the ladder, so your life should suck and be miserable. If you don’t like it, move up.

    One life to live, no one should live below the poverty line if they are working. You took away their ability to live off the land by owning everything(living off the land is an honest and just way to live, it also should be a right), and then you subjugate them to a life of misery to working for almost nothing and always in complete debt. Only person who benefits here is the owner, who’s life is better at the expense of making some human being live in complete misery. Insanity.

  27. leftwing says:

    27. Pumps….hmmm….your last sentence entices me….Think I’ll go with “Misery Maker” as a name for my new boat.

    It’s a Schaefer 620. Delivery was a bit delayed as those damn Brazilian kids they employ to hand sand the trim got it all wrong so I had it sent back (they must have watching that egalitarian nutcase in robes when they should have been paying attention to my boat). Anyway, it just arrived. Should have seen that baby burn, churned up the bottom of Barnegat Bay. Isn’t there something we can dump in the bay to get rid of all those pesky shellfish (you know, in the area where don’t already own all the shellfish rights)? Would have helped, if that family weren’t out there clamming my wake wouldn’t have tipped their skiff. I think they found the girl. Anyway, now that I own that kid from my business for that $100 bonus check I wrote him I make him bartend and wait on my boat for free. Hope he didn’t overhear anything. A few of my buds and I had some Board meetings (easy, we are all on eachothers Boards) and we think if we back Bernie he’ll get all the immigrants legalized and, man, when you extrapolate that out thirty years their offspring will absolutely flatten wages – KABLAM! Took longer than usual to agree, too many h00kers and too much bl0w distracting us. Farking business kept calling too, guess I’ll have to drop in there next week, thought I could get the whole month off without stopping in. D@mn, just does not get better than this.

    You’re a donkey and have zero clue.

  28. Ragnar says:

    It’s so rich to see the guy unwilling to study for a CPA, or CFA, who said he didn’t want to move up to management, now complaining that his workday isn’t on par with a French or Greek public employee’s. He heard something about effortless wealth and leisure, so it’s other peoples’ fault for not making that land of milk and honey arrive.

  29. Now Spanky be reasonable says:

    Here’s my two bits on the “now both adults need to work to maintain a middle class lifestyle” trope, which burns me. Want to live on one paycheck? Live on a postage stamp in a house that was built in the 50’s (let’s say a bungalow) and which has not been added on to (2-3 beds, 1 bath, living room, dining room). Take away a/c, dishwasher, dryer, all cars but one, video games, computers, cell phones (only one landline in the house, one tv, one radio/record player). Don’t eat out, ever. No trips to Europe, no year round sports camp/music and or luge lessons for your one child. Forget college for said child. Then add three more kids. Whammo! Middle class life style ala 1950’s-1960’s.

  30. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I’m just getting started. First thing I will blast is the car. Cars didn’t last, you had to buy new cars every 3 years. We keep cars on avg, 10 years now. You do the math, it’s not that much of a luxury to have two cars when you keep them much longer. I would also argue that cars are a necessity today for both parents to get to work. Public transportation has not funded correctly, due to the need to sell cars.

    Now Spanky be reasonable says:
    September 26, 2015 at 1:05 pm
    Here’s my two bits on the “now both adults need to work to maintain a middle class lifestyle” trope, which burns me. Want to live on one paycheck? Live on a postage stamp in a house that was built in the 50′s (let’s say a bungalow) and which has not been added on to (2-3 beds, 1 bath, living room, dining room). Take away a/c, dishwasher, dryer, all cars but one, video games, computers, cell phones (only one landline in the house, one tv, one radio/record player). Don’t eat out, ever. No trips to Europe, no year round sports camp/music and or luge lessons for your one child. Forget college for said child. Then add three more kids. Whammo! Middle class life style ala 1950′s-1960′s.

  31. Ben says:

    I work 24/7. Get emails all the time needing all sorts of data and reports. I’m on salary. I have no set hours, but it is mandatory I be in office from 9:30 to 5:30. Quarter ends I have to work till God knows when and even on Saturdays. Thank god for Bergen county blue laws, or I would have to work on Sunday’s during crunch times. You like working on 4th of July? Great, I get a comped personnel day for it, but it’s f’en Fourth of July. You have walked a day in my shoes, so don’t judge.

    I know, last time this argument came up, you also mentioned that the quarter was ending. I’m not impressed. Up until last June, I was working 4 jobs. Taught during the day, tutored from 3 pm to 9 pm 3 out of 7 days. Worked for two online curriculum companies by night. Might have slept 4 hours a day for 3 years straight. The first post I usually make on this site is by 7 pm after dinner.

    Bottom line, you aren’t going to convince me you are working hard through the whole day when you continue to post rants and cut and paste political articles left and right.

  32. The Great Pumpkin says:

    31-

    “It’s really hard to have this conversation without giving due hat-tipping to housing and health care. The cost of those two has gone up monstrously. Yes, houses have gotten bigger, but to live in a good neighborhood often requires that you live in a bigger house. Neighborhoods with smaller houses tend to either be in shoddier neighborhoods or in urban areas where you don’t realize the cost savings. Some people buy bigger to get bigger houses. Others buy bigger because the people they want to live around buy bigger houses.

    (The last time I mentioned this, Mr Hanley accused me of bigotry. But this is as true in the lilly-white rural west as it is everywhere else I have lived. Buying a comparatively inexpensive house does not grant you the good schools and positive neighborhood atmosphere it used to. Nowhere I have lived, anyway.)

    And as for health care, that’s gotten better in many ways as well. But as far as I know you can’t buy 1950’s health care at 1950’s prices. It’s another collective action issue, where the decisions of others make your options today different than they were back then.”

  33. The Great Pumpkin says:

    31-

    “Government and industry have worked hand in hand to outsource manufacturing and financialize the country. The end result has been hollowing out of the U.S. economy. We simply don’t employ people in making much of anything other than derivatives and fraudulent loans.

    Oh, it worked well for a while as the shipping of jobs overseas produced what seemed to be record profits and material abundance. Of course we never bothered to think about what would happen once the people whose jobs were lost no longer had the necessary income to sustain a consumer economy.

    When the Masters of the Universe realized they’d torpedoed the same middle class which had powered economic growth for forty years they papered the problem over with cheap credit, which we were then encouraged by both industry and politicians to max out.

    Now we don’t even bother to conceal the process of wealth extraction by our billionaire betters. We simply force the taxpayer to loan money to Wall Street at 0% interest, then force the taxpayer to borrow that same money back at 2-4%.

    We enabled large trading companies like Goldman Sachs to flash trade, thereby extracting additional wealth from the little guy who can’t possibly match the speed of the big banks’ computers. Over 75% of stocks are held for less than 12 seconds in this country because high frequency trading allows the big banks to shave a tenth of a penny from each of those billions of stocks traded. That’s not directing capital flows to where they are most needed, which is the purpose of stock markets. That’s blatant manipulation driving up trading costs and reducing available capital.

    We’ve legalized looting by the financial industry and it behaves like a vacuum machine sucking as much wealth out of the economy as it can get its Hooverized Robo-tentacles around.”

  34. The Great Pumpkin says:

    31-

    “Your argument is a strawman.

    No one, I repeat NO ONE, argues that the data shows that Americans had a higher standard of living in the 1950s than now.

    The correct argument is that the improvement in the standard of living has slowed dramatically in recent decades. From the end of WW II to the 1970s per capita real GDP or real income grew at about a 2% to 3% average rate. Since the 1970s these measured have grown much slower — under 1% annually and virtually all of that growth was in the 1990s as in the 1980s and 2000s real per capita growth was flat.

    This is a very different argument than the one you are making.”

  35. anon (the good one) says:

    the BA was not enough and needed to get the mba, now all those mbas are rushing to get cfas. doesn’t matter, they are getting fukced in the stinky all the same

    see NYT article Amazon

  36. anon (the good one) says:

    relentless booms and busts, Great Depression, global final crisis, etc etc and the Fundamentalist calls for more cfas

  37. The Great Pumpkin says:

    31-

    “One especially informative link I was directed to by BJ commenters was to a 2007 lecture by Elizabeth Warren. I highly recommend it and would be interested in any rebuttals you might have: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A

    In this talk she shoots down many of the offered explanations above. For example, she shows clothing, food and appliance costs have actually decreased in real dollars, as has many “flexible” expenses. It is the inflexible debt, such as mortgages, health care and, due to two wage earners being necessary – a second car and child care. It is undeniable that house are much larger today, but the question is, who is/(was) buying those houses? Single wage earner families? Not many. In fact, do they even make new 1200 sq ft houses in decent neighborhoods today? Very few. The M!Mans!ons are NOT for the middle class and the fact that there are a lot more of them today does not mean the middle class is better off.”

  38. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You know what, why do I even care what you think. You don’t want to believe me or are not impressed, what do I care. I’m not trying to make this into a pissing contest.

    Ben says:
    September 26, 2015 at 3:14 pm
    I work 24/7. Get emails all the time needing all sorts of data and reports. I’m on salary. I have no set hours, but it is mandatory I be in office from 9:30 to 5:30. Quarter ends I have to work till God knows when and even on Saturdays. Thank god for Bergen county blue laws, or I would have to work on Sunday’s during crunch times. You like working on 4th of July? Great, I get a comped personnel day for it, but it’s f’en Fourth of July. You have walked a day in my shoes, so don’t judge.

    I know, last time this argument came up, you also mentioned that the quarter was ending. I’m not impressed. Up until last June, I was working 4 jobs. Taught during the day, tutored from 3 pm to 9 pm 3 out of 7 days. Worked for two online curriculum companies by night. Might have slept 4 hours a day for 3 years straight. The first post I usually make on this site is by 7 pm after dinner.

    Bottom line, you aren’t going to convince me you are working hard through the whole day when you continue to post rants and cut and paste political articles left and right.

  39. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Lol…exactly! So much easier today, right! It just gets easier everyday.

    anon (the good one) says:
    September 26, 2015 at 3:30 pm
    the BA was not enough and needed to get the mba, now all those mbas are rushing to get cfas. doesn’t matter, they are getting fukced in the stinky all the same

    see NYT article Amazon

  40. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Insanity.

    anon (the good one) says:
    September 26, 2015 at 3:37 pm
    relentless booms and busts, Great Depression, global final crisis, etc etc and the Fundamentalist calls for more cfas

  41. Comrade Nom Deplume, celebrating the last road trip of the year. says:

    I see I haven’t missed anything important.

  42. Now Spanky be reasonable says:

    Great Pumpkin (isn’t it interesting that in the Charlie Brown Halloween special the Great Pumpkin never shows up?)

    #31 – Hmm, I seem to see a lot of people upgrading their cars every few years, right about when their lease is due, or when they are tired of driving an SUV without the latest electronic crutch. Did people in the 50’s and 60’s buy a new car every few years because their current car was falling apart? I thought Detroit didn’t go down the crapper until the 70’s.

    #33 – Re housing – yeah, a good neighborhood. Look, everyone has the right to pursue their own happiness, but don’t complain that because you want more house both parents have to work because all of sudden life is more expensive. You decided to take on more house, for whatever reason. And frankly, if one parent were home and involved in the school district, maybe it would be a good one (and this is from someone who is the product of an inner city school district).

    Health insurance had became an expectation and now is a legal requirement. Back in the day, the family doctor, who actually knew your family, charged what people could pay. Now, thanks to health insurance, a physical which consists of an aide taking your blood pressure, measuring your height and recording your weight, followed by a 10 minute visit with the doctor, costs over $25o (well, that is what is charged to the insurance company). Costs will continue to rise ridiculously, thanks to the community organizer who takes up space in the White House.

    #34 – Today, jobs are shipped overseas…back in the day the only jobs to be had for the mass of humanity was either backbreaking labor on the farm or in a sweatshop. This expectation that we ought to be taken care of, or at least that circumstances may never change except for the better, makes for citizens who are easily manipulated and controlled. What is needed is more independence, not more dependence.

    #35 – My argument is not a straw man argument. My point was that if a family wanted to keep one spouse home to tend the offspring and the homestead, then they need to scale back on the materialism which has swamped our society. Live within your means, simplify your life. But, if your priority is not to keep one spouse home, if your priority is rather to have the big house, and the three cars, not to mention cell phones for the four year old in pre-k, and doggy day care for the labradoodle…then don’t complain. Yes, relatively speaking, a tv today is cheaper than one purchased in the 60’s. But the family bought only one tv, not four. Machinery was more expensive because it was built to last, not to break down and be replaced in five years. Work out the cost of those appliances over their lifespan and see which one works out to be cheaper.

    The incredible growth in the average American’s standard of living was an anomaly, a blip in the sociological history of mankind. Did anyone really think that it would go on forever? Oh, that’s right, silly me…tptb said it would, so it must be true.

    Elizabeth “Pocahontas” Warren? Please. I can’t take her seriously after the lies she told about her ancestry and about her childhood of poverty.

    Again, why buy the big house? To live in a better neighborhood? Define “better”, “good”. Let’s face it – the people who buy these bigger houses want the walk in closet, the wet bar, the cathedral ceilings and two-zone heat/ac, they want to bring the family over for the 4th of July party and brag about all the new crap they have. Good school district? Only if there is a rock climbing wall in the gym.

    And you turned this into a p!ssing contest – but lucky for me I was blessed with an incredible … appendage…and can shoot farther than anyone else.

  43. Ben says:

    You know what, why do I even care what you think. You don’t want to believe me or are not impressed, what do I care. I’m not trying to make this into a pissing contest.

    Listen, I’m not trying to piss you off. You and I are the same age. I think you have a distorted perspective of what working 24/7 means and where you should get credit, much like the rest of our generation. My whole point was, if you have the ability to post these messages on a daily basis, there seems to be a lot of free time.

    A typical Monday for me last year was up at 4:45 am, into school by 6:15 after 1 hr commute. Teach 6 out of 9 periods. Those 3 “free periods” were flooded with kids needing extra help. Leave school at 2:30. Start tutoring at 2:45. Finish 1st student by 3:45. On to the next house. 4 to 5. On to the next house. Stop at the pizza shop and have them hand me a slice cold because I don’t have time to wait for them to heat it. 5:15 to 6:15. On to the next house. 6:30 to 7:30. On to the next house. Stop at coffee shop to take a piss first and refuel on energy. 8:00 to 9:00. Drive home…that takes another hour. Get home at 10. Eat something. Take a shower. Go to sleep. Repeat two more days.

    I’m not trying to get into a pissing contest. I’m proving a point. If you are working 24/7, you don’t have time to post on blogs. You don’t even have time to eat a warm meal. You have to plan when you are going to take a piss.

  44. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I don’t agree with this position. How come profits continued to grow from the 70’s till now? How come corporate profits are the highest they have ever been the past few years? This argument, of an anomaly, doesn’t fit the data. How did the economy continuously grow from the 70’s till today? That’s my main problem with the profit kings, they are not paying wages based on a % of the profit, so it’s evenly shared, instead it’s based on what the market will bear. So since technology is making jobs obsolete, the market will bear much lower wages then it should with so many just wanting to have a job. Like I always state, this is dangerous and will crash the economy long term. The balance in the division of profits is off, and therefore will slowly erode the consumer demand till your left with almost no growth in the economy, or worse, a contraction in the economy.

    “The incredible growth in the average American’s standard of living was an anomaly, a blip in the sociological history of mankind. Did anyone really think that it would go on forever? Oh, that’s right, silly me…tptb said it would, so it must be true.”

  45. The Great Pumpkin says:

    46- Pretty much sums it up

    “Similarly, pay is set based on what the market will bear. If people can be found to do a job for a given compensation level, that is where the level will be set. There’s talk of market forces, but I stopped believing in those about the same time I stopped believing in gods and demons. The very rich and powerful people who ultimately own most of the world are naturally keen to get steadily richer and more powerful – which logically entails “never giving a sucker an even break” on a planetary scale (where everyone reading this thread is certainly one of the suckers). We are suckers not only when we buy, but when we sell our time – the only substantial wealth most of us will ever have.”

  46. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Not for nothing, you have just demonstrated exactly what I’m talking about. Look at how much you work, that’s the problem with this society. You have a job that people deem to be a “lucrative job” in our economy(people say your teaching job is over compensated) , yet to support a family on it, you must basically work around the clock. Proves my point perfectly.

    As for my daily posts on this blog, that is not free time, that means I will be at work that much longer if I have reports to complete by day’s end. I prob spend between a half hour and hour of my day on this blog, yes way too much time, but I am cursed with ocd, and this blog serves my ocd need for intellectual conversation. Believe me, my wife has ripped me numerous times for coming home late and knowing this blog had something to do with it. Weekends too, I get ripped if she sees me posting and not playing with my daughter. So I sneak these posts in whenever I can on the weekend.

    Ben says:
    September 26, 2015 at 9:12 pm
    You know what, why do I even care what you think. You don’t want to believe me or are not impressed, what do I care. I’m not trying to make this into a pissing contest.

    Listen, I’m not trying to piss you off. You and I are the same age. I think you have a distorted perspective of what working 24/7 means and where you should get credit, much like the rest of our generation. My whole point was, if you have the ability to post these messages on a daily basis, there seems to be a lot of free time.

    A typical Monday for me last year was up at 4:45 am, into school by 6:15 after 1 hr commute. Teach 6 out of 9 periods. Those 3 “free periods” were flooded with kids needing extra help. Leave school at 2:30. Start tutoring at 2:45. Finish 1st student by 3:45. On to the next house. 4 to 5. On to the next house. Stop at the pizza shop and have them hand me a slice cold because I don’t have time to wait for them to heat it. 5:15 to 6:15. On to the next house. 6:30 to 7:30. On to the next house. Stop at coffee shop to take a piss first and refuel on energy. 8:00 to 9:00. Drive home…that takes another hour. Get home at 10. Eat something. Take a shower. Go to sleep. Repeat two more days.

    I’m not trying to get into a pissing contest. I’m proving a point. If you are working 24/7, you don’t have time to post on blogs. You don’t even have time to eat a warm meal. You have to plan when you are going to take a piss.

  47. The Great Pumpkin says:

    47- should have included this part too, so it makes sense.

    “Long ago, one of the best bosses I have ever worked for asked me one day, “Tom, how are prices set?” I replied, “Well, take the cost of raw materials plus the costs of manufacture and sales, plus some overhead and a fair markup…” He cut me off with a gesture. “No, that’s entirely wrong. Prices are set based on how much the market will bear”. I never forgot that, although I wish I had learned it 20 years sooner.

    Similarly, pay is set based on what the market will bear. If people can be found to do a job for a given compensation level, that is where the level will be set. There’s talk of market forces, but I stopped believing in those about the same time I stopped believing in gods and demons. The very rich and powerful people who ultimately own most of the world are naturally keen to get steadily richer and more powerful – which logically entails “never giving a sucker an even break” on a planetary scale (where everyone reading this thread is certainly one of the suckers). We are suckers not only when we buy, but when we sell our time – the only substantial wealth most of us will ever have.”

  48. Ben says:

    Not for nothing, you have just demonstrated exactly what I’m talking about. Look at how much you work, that’s the problem with this society. You have a job that people deem to be a “lucrative job” in our economy(people say your teaching job is over compensated) , yet to support a family on it, you must basically work around the clock. Proves my point perfectly.

    As for my daily posts on this blog, that is not free time, that means I will be at work that much longer if I have reports to complete by day’s end. I prob spend between a half hour and hour of my day on this blog, yes way too much time, but I am cursed with ocd, and this blog serves my ocd need for intellectual conversation. Believe me, my wife has ripped me numerous times for coming home late and knowing this blog had something to do with it. Weekends too, I get ripped if she sees me posting and not playing with my daughter. So I sneak these posts in whenever I can on the weekend.

    I was underpaid as a teacher for 6 years. This I know. That has nothing to do with the fact that I chose to work that hard out of school tutoring. And with that, I’m well compensated. Upped my rate to $100 an hour and you’ll never find me complaining about it. I’m not going to tutor more than 4 students this year though. I’m more interested in spending time with my kids.

    And to be honest, teaching is a different animal than the private sector. You can establish yourself as the best teacher in the state and still watch your salary decrease. Many do work tirelessly out of school because they care. There is nothing in it financially for them and they could easily get away with doing nothing if they want.

  49. Ragnar says:

    Zuck’s $100m donation to Newark schools mostly down the drain?http://finance.yahoo.com/news/mark-zuckerbergs-100-million-donation-155608055.html

  50. leftwing says:

    Pumps

    “Prices are set based on how much the market will bear…Similarly, pay is set based on what the market will bear.”

    This is news to you?

    How did you believe them to be set?

  51. Ben says:

    $21 million to “educational consultants”. The true parasites of the system. You probably had a about 75 people make off with the 21 million while the general public complains about teachers making 50k a year with Cadillac benefits that they don’t use.

  52. Libturd at home says:

    Rags,

    So it looks like the reforms failed because the NJEA wouldn’t bite on pay for performance. What a surprise. Charter schools in Newark are absolutely kicking ass. Hmmm.

  53. Libturd at home says:

    About those consultants. Not sure why, but every school system seems to hire them. The Montclair local government hires them for everything, which blows my mind when I see how much many of these Montclair employees are paid.

  54. yome says:

    Supreme Court Of NJ allows car search without Warrant

  55. leftwing says:

    link?

  56. Ben says:

    So it looks like the reforms failed because the NJEA wouldn’t bite on pay for performance. What a surprise. Charter schools in Newark are absolutely kicking ass. Hmmm.

    Doubtful. Pay for performance would likely yield higher salaries. Contrary to popular to belief, the NJEA regularly suppresses salaries.

  57. Ben says:

    About those consultants. Not sure why, but every school system seems to hire them. The Montclair local government hires them for everything, which blows my mind when I see how much many of these Montclair employees are paid.

    Consultants have no business in school districts. Admin is clueless and they hire them. Meanwhile, teachers just ignore the admin and do what they know works. Consultants are parasites on the system and the swallow up dollars that could be used to attract talented teachers.

  58. yome says:

    It comes down to how the Supremes interpret the laws. So much power they hold

  59. Libturd at home says:

    Put a hole bunch of “F the police” leaflet all over the car.

Comments are closed.