Cash-out in style again

From HousingWire:

Black Knight: Cash-out refis up 68% since 2Q 2014

Cash-out refinances were up 68% year-over-year from the second quarter of 2014, as borrowers take advantage of still-low rates and newfound equity in their homes, according to Black Knight Financial Services.

This is the highest volume of cash-out refinancing in five years, but still nearly 80% below the peak in 2005.

As Black Knight Data & Analytics Senior Vice President Ben Graboske explained, borrowers have been capitalizing on increased equity available in their homes and still historically low rates. 


“In the second quarter of 2015, we saw cash-out refinance volumes rise almost 70% from the same period last year,” said Graboske. “While this is the highest volume in cash-out refinances we’ve seen in five years, it’s still nearly 80% below the peak in Q3 2005. Even so, it’s clear that borrowers have been capitalizing on the increased equity available to them.

“As we reported in last month’s Mortgage Monitor, total equity of mortgage holders has risen by about $1 trillion over the last year, and ‘tappable’ equity stands at $4.5 trillion,” he said. “Borrowers today are pulling out an average of $67,000 of equity through cash-out refis, nearly the levels we saw back in 2006. What’s really interesting though, is that even after pulling out that equity, resulting average LTVs are at 68%, the lowest level we’ve seen in over 10 years.”

In its analysis of refinance transactions in comparison to prior loans, Black Knight also found that the distribution of cash-out refinances is highly concentrated geographically, with over 30% of all such transactions occurring in California alone.

Texas is second among states in terms of cash-out refinance volume, at just 7% of the nation’s total. Looking at Q2 2015 refinances in general, the data shows that borrowers are saving an average of $136 in principal and interest each month through refinance and cutting their interest rates by just over one%; the lowest such reductions in nine and five years, respectively.

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110 Responses to Cash-out in style again

  1. grim says:

    They are not mutually exclusive. Looks like you need to reassess the issue.

    I think you misunderstood my statement, I’m not making this argument, those in favor of a high minimum wage are. In fact, in nearly every article, statement, speech, press release, this factor is a major part of their argument.

  2. gluteus (77, yesterday)

    My money would be on City. They have ownership and a manager that prefers winning titles over stockpiling cash.

    “League is now a two way fight, us and city!”

  3. Hardy har. Hilarity will ensue once all the mortgage dolts and despairing borrowers get smacked in the face with RE Collapse II (coming soon to a suburban shack colony near you!) and realize those LTVs are actually well north of 100%.

    It’s not like we haven’t seen this movie before.

    “As we reported in last month’s Mortgage Monitor, total equity of mortgage holders has risen by about $1 trillion over the last year, and ‘tappable’ equity stands at $4.5 trillion,” he said. “Borrowers today are pulling out an average of $67,000 of equity through cash-out refis, nearly the levels we saw back in 2006. What’s really interesting though, is that even after pulling out that equity, resulting average LTVs are at 68%, the lowest level we’ve seen in over 10 years.”

  4. Can’t refinance negative equity.

    I don’t think I’ve posted that here since 2009.

  5. WickedOrange says:

    If you’re incline to sign:

    Citizens in Opposition to Deal Ordinance #1124
    https://www.change.org/p/deal-mayor-morris-ades-citizens-in-opposition-to-deal-ordinance-1124

  6. grim says:

    5 – I would hope not a single penny of taxpayer money would go towards any beach or dune remediation work if that passes.

    No worries, lets raise some money and provide a daily bus service to Deal beach. I’m sure we can pack that beach. Perhaps we should go a step further and remove our sand?

  7. ZIRP 4 eva, bitchez!!!

    “If weakening conditions prevent the Fed from pulling the rate hike trigger by December, can we really expect it to do it in the election year of 2016? With the economy already on thin ice, a rising rate environment may likely push the economy into recession if it somehow isn’t already there. This will play directly into the hands of the Republicans who will be able to hammer the outgoing Obama Administration’s economic legacy, thereby handing the election to the GOP. Does anyone really expect the left-leaning Federal Reserve led by Janet Yellen to do that? Given that, we may not see a rate increase until 2017, even if conditions improve, which is a dubious proposition. Predictably, Goldman Sachs’ chief economist Jan Hatzius came out with a statement today predicting the first move may not come until 2017. Look for many other influential economists to follow suit.

    My view is that it is far more likely that we will see a fresh round of Quantitative Easing before we see a rate hike. As far as I know, however, I am still one of the only economists making this “outrageous” forecast.”

    http://www.europac.com/commentaries/failure_launch

  8. chicagofinance says:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-new-restaurant-of-the-future-2015-8

    Splat What Was He Thinking says:
    October 5, 2015 at 11:34 pm
    Hey gluteus, you genius:

    Setting an artificial and arbitrary minimum wage only guarantees that those whose skills do not merit that level of pay are permanently locked out of the job market.

    Oh, how it will pain your soul to hear ‘want fries with that?’ coming from a canned, computerized voice.

  9. D-FENS says:

    $15 Minimum wage = buying votes for Democrats with other people’s money.

    Nothing else matters.

    grim says:
    October 5, 2015 at 9:37 pm
    Raising the minimum wage is supposed to get people off social assistance.

    Raising minimum wage while simultaneously allowing higher income people to get social assistance? This makes no sense.

  10. D-FENS says:

    Not true. It is certainly far more difficult, but not impossible. I did it. The credit union where I got my mortgage wholly owned my loan and refinanced it even though it was underwater. People on the board can argue with me all they want. I fcuking did it.

    I later pre-paid the mortgage to the point that it was no longer underwater, then they modified it and lowered the interest rate.

    It helped that my wife and I had 800+ credit scores and never missed a payment on anything in our lives.

    Splat What Was He Thinking says:
    October 6, 2015 at 6:39 am
    Can’t refinance negative equity.

    I don’t think I’ve posted that here since 2009.

  11. dfens (11)-

    Granted, credit unions and small, state-chartered banks that hold loans they originate in portfolio will often do incredible short-term refis and creative workouts for high credit score borrowers who are underwater.

    My dad- back in the day- benefitted from this. Of course, it didn’t hurt that he was one of the founding shareholders of the bank that did the refi (prolly not entirely kosher, either then or now). The bank ended up being the big winner on that one.

  12. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Bingo!!

    “To hear Hang explain it, philanthropy is about more than just social responsibility—it’s about social stability.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-10-01/children-of-the-yuan-percent-everyone-hates-china-s-rich-kids

  13. Comrade Nom Deplume, from the Hub of the Solar System. says:

    [80] [prior] leftwing,

    I was wondering who would call them out first. Hope everyone else enjoyed the show.

    Too bad it had to end though. I had the bombers stacked up every 1,000 feet, waiting for them to wander further into the kill box. It would have been entertaining.

  14. anon (the good one) says:

    but minimum wage is what keep the extreme right wingers up at night

    @Reuters: Big U.S. firms hold $2.1 trillion overseas to avoid taxes

  15. Comrade Nom Deplume, from the Hub of the Solar System. says:

    [1] grim,

    The min wage issue presents opportunities. I am feeling it in my wallet so I reassessed my discretionary labor spend. But it occurs to me that if I’m feeling the pinch, so are others. Now I am looking into new opportunities, not with a new idea but taking one already growing and improving upon it. In the end, I can leverage scale to dramatically reduce the cost of a discretionary service. Will it reduce the workforce in this area if I succeed? Absolutely. Water seeks its own level.

  16. leftwing says:

    Back to intellectual rigor and honesty.

    The reason those firms have the moneys overseas is because tax rates are lower over there. Lower rates here and it will remain here.

    I don’t know why the left doesn’t understand – or willfully ignores – basic economic principles:

    “Tax something and you get less of it. Subsidize something and you get more of it.”

  17. Comrade Nom Deplume, from the Hub of the Solar System. says:

    [15] lost

    Trying to establish the reasoning for the disparate sentences in that post is proving difficult, perhaps due to its extreme attenuation. Is it me or is reading anon becoming a lot like listening to Jared Loughner?.

  18. grim says:

    I’m backing a higher minimum wage, but only if it’s done wholesale across the board, nationally.

    Why?

    The east and west coast major metros stand to gain dramatically from it. Primarily to stem the outflow of lower skill jobs to the middle of the country or other lower wage markets nationally. Flyover country will be skewered by it. I think most of the major metros can absorb it, some of the minor metros probably won’t be able to. I strongly feel that it will significantly curtail in-country wage arbitrage on the lower-wage fronts.

  19. grim says:

    There are numerous situations I’ve seen in the last year or so where an operation in a major metro is near a $12-14 hour wage, but based on cost considerations the business is looking to move to an area with a base rate closer to $9-10, where it can be a high payer in a region and have access to a wider job pool.

    Moving to $15 opens the doors up to a number of good candidates that the business couldn’t previously afford in the local market, candidates that are significantly more skilled for the job than you can find in those other areas. Likewise, at $15 base the expected attrition rates will drop pretty strongly, as will retraining costs.

    At that point, the potential cost savings and labor pool access issues begin to look relatively minor.

  20. jcer says:

    grim, it will lead to more offshoring, automation and fewer low wage jobs with more people dependent on government assistance. I don’t think raising the minimum by government mandate is going to help.

  21. yome says:

    “The reason those firms have the moneys overseas is because tax rates are lower over there. Lower rates here and it will remain here.”

    This is not true! The reason that money stays abroad is ,money is untaxed. There is no double taxation.

    https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/tax-reform/report/2014/01/09/81681/offshore-corporate-profits-the-only-thing-trapped-is-tax-revenue/

  22. Anon E. Møøse, Who never bit anyone's sister says:

    Tool [15];

    but minimum wage is what keep the extreme right wingers up at night

    @Reuters: Big U.S. firms hold $2.1 trillion overseas to avoid taxes

    Oh, how it just burns your hide that anyone has the audacity to put your their money where you can’t confiscate it…

  23. Anon E. Møøse, Who never bit anyone's sister says:

    Tool [15];

    but minimum wage is what keep the extreme right wingers up at night

    @Reuters: Big U.S. firms hold $2.1 trillion overseas to avoid taxes

    Oh, how it just burns your hide that anyone has the audacity to put their your money where you can’t confisc@te it…

    Could you be any more stereotypically immature?

  24. grim says:

    21 – I’m not saying that it won’t, I’m just saying there are other in-country factors.

  25. yome says:

    There is no trillion-dollar stockpile of cash under a collective corporate mattress in Luxembourg, waiting to be put to use in the American economy if only tax policy were different. That money is already here, and the only thing “trapped offshore” is federal revenue.

    That money is already deposited in US banks

  26. Fast Eddie says:

    $15 Minimum wage = buying votes for Democrats with other people’s money.

    Nothing else matters.

    This sums it up perfectly. Why is this even a discussion?

  27. jcer says:

    22, it kills jobs by making it attractive to have employees overseas to reduce US costs. Since the tax isn’t paid anyway the current system is really dumb and not working.

  28. yome says:

    For example, as of last May, Apple had $102 billion in “permanently invested overseas” income not subject to the U.S. corporate tax. On Apple’s books, this untaxed profit is “offshore” because it is controlled by two Irish subsidiaries—even though these subsidiaries park their funds in bank accounts in New York. This $102 billion that has yet to be subject to U.S. taxation is already in the United States, not trapped in Ireland. Apple cannot use this money directly for American real estate acquisitions, dividends, share buybacks, or funding for operations in Cupertino, but the money is being loaned out in the American economy by American banks, funding American mortgages and small-business loans just like any other American deposit.

  29. yome says:

    Apple has given us a great example of how this works. In April, the company announced that it wanted to begin a $60 billion share buyback program. The only problem? “According to analyst estimates, Apple has $145 billion of cash – but only $45 billion on hand in the US, and thus not enough to fully fund the share buy-back program,” Reuters reported. In theory, share buybacks and dividends are exactly what corporations cannot do with unrepatriated income. In practice, however, Apple was easily able to fund its buyback program without paying a dime of tax.

    In April, Apple issued $17 billion in corporate bonds—the largest bond offering in American corporate history. The interest rate Apple paid on 10-year bonds was only 2.415 percent, or only 74 basis points above the rate on 10-year Treasury bonds that day. But that is just the sticker price. In fact, the interest on the bonds is then tax deductible—at a 35 percent corporate tax rate, the business-interest deduction covers 84.5 basis points of the borrowing costs, lowering the after-tax interest costs to 1.57 percent, or 10 basis points lower than Treasuries. With expected inflation above this level, Uncle Sam and bond buyers actually paid Apple to hold onto their money for 10 years.

    Apple is not the only multinational corporation accessing low rates from the bond market instead of repatriating foreign earnings. Microsoft, with more than $60 billion in estimated untaxed overseas profits, conducted a $2 billion U.S. bond sale in 2013 with interest rates on 10-year bonds at about 2.44 percent. One industry analyst suggested that Microsoft was partially “selling the bonds to replenish its U.S. cash position after dividend payments and share buybacks.” Similarly, Walmart, DuPont, Coca-Cola, and Johnson & Johnson have all entered a favorable bond market in recent years despite having billions of dollars held overseas.

    Apple was able to get such a low interest rate because it had $145 billion in cash on hand, making it an extremely low-risk investment. For bond buyers, it does not matter that much of this cash is controlled by Apple’s foreign subsidiaries and thus unrepatriated for tax purposes; it is still a hugely valuable asset wholly owned by Apple and available to pay Apple’s U.S. corporate debts. Companies such as Apple can access all the benefits of their foreign income through cheap lending even if the money in those accounts cannot move directly toward dividends, share buybacks, or U.S. operational investments. And the cost, as Apple’s interest rates demonstrate, can be negligible.

    The only thing trapped offshore is federal revenue

  30. D-FENS says:

    26 – People like anon probably know this, they just don’t care. What’s most important to someone like him is that droves of people pull the lever for people with the letter “D” next to their name.

    Grim can articulate and form the perfect argument upside down, backwards and sideways but it will never matter to anon. Anon and the “fight for 15” crew just want to show the appearance of helping minimum wage employees so that the “michaels” of the world can pull the lever for the D’s and relieve themselves of their self loathing guilt.

  31. Juice Box says:

    re: “That money is already deposited in US banks”

    It isn’t even cash, take Apple for example they have $200 Billion in cash and cash equivalents, and have been called out onto the mat by the US Congress more than once and the EU over their double Irish tax avoidance strategy.

    It is all invested…including UST, MBS and Corporate Securities.

    See Page 8

    http://investor.apple.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1193125-15-259935&CIK=320193

    Here is what was floating around this year in Congress, got no traction however.

    Boxer-Paul “Invest in Transportation Act”

    6.5 % r repatriation rate and all taxes collected go into highway fund. They also wanted to restrict what the money could be used for.

    http://www.boxer.senate.gov/press/related/BoxerPaulWhitePaper012915.pdf

  32. Juice Box says:

    Meanwhile everyone else wants their share of the pot and a new global regime of international tax treaties is in the works via the Base Erosion and Profit-Shifting (Beps) project for the G20.

    http://www.oecd.org/ctp/beps.htm

  33. grim says:

    There are plenty of low-cost employment areas in the US that would be absolutely decimated by $15. The pain will not be felt equally.

  34. Juice Box says:

    Disney Orlando etc, $15 would be about a 50% increase in wages for them, the ensuing stamped to upgrade to a double wide would destabalize the single wide developements, they will need a bailout.

  35. chicagofinance says:

    LITTLE FERRY – Today, a priest is to be arraigned on charges he pointed an unloaded musket at an 8-year-old boy in the church rectory, as the debate turned to which NFL team was better: the Cowboys or the Giants. Of course, the priest said it was all fun and games. Ha. Ha. Prosecutors say the priest – a rabid Giants fan – asked the boy to step into one of the rectory’s rooms and stand against a wall, where he pointed the musket at him. The priest’s lawyer says it was all just some uproarious, “innocent banter.” Yeah, tell that to this kid’s mom.

  36. chicagofinance says:

    Today’s Political News (clot Edition):
    ORLANDO – Perhaps this is exactly what Congress needs – a senator who ritualistically sacrifices a goat and drinks its blood. U.S. Senate candidate Augustus Sol Invictus – the only member of the Libertarian Party of Florida running to fill the Senate seat vacated by presidential hopeful Marco Rubio – says that, yeah, he is a pagan who may drink some blood from time to time, the Orlando Sentinel reports. Moreover, he appears to be a big believer in eugenics, prophesizes a “great war” in America and enjoys the support of neo-Nazis. Invictus tells the newspaper: “I did sacrifice a goat. I know that’s probably a quibble in the mind of most Americans. I sacrificed an animal to the god of the wilderness … Yes, I drank the goat’s blood.” Tough to add to this one.

  37. Libturd in Union says:

    I’m telling you. Go into any fast casual restaurant. The prices have skyrocketed ahead of the $15/hr salaries.

    Had to up and out early this morning. Stopped in Dunkin. Sh1tty bagel with cream cheese and coffee was $5.50. At Smashburger, burger, soda and fries are $12 easy.

    The market should determine wages. Where will these poor people eat? And where will they work as this accelerates the adoption of kiosks. I’m seeing them everywhere now. And with less people behind the counter, the quality suffers. My online ordered Panera salad was 15 minutes late the last time I picked it up. Heck. The salad I get at au bon paine for free is up to $9.45 before tax.

  38. grim says:

    Walk through Terminal C, tablets abound.

  39. D-FENS says:

    Beware of the prosecutor in that case. He is known to let doctors who assault women off the hook even offering one PTI not once but TWICE…only to have the doctor continue to practice on women (against court order) and assault more women.

    Dude has also been known to seize baseball memorabilia in cases (which turned out to be fake) then auction it off himself.

    http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2015/10/bergen_count_prosecutor_criticized_at_meeting.html

    “The video that led to Brennan’s dismissal was made to be played at the Sept. 30 meeting and is now on Youtube. It features the BCPO-critical testimony of an alleged victim of a Teaneck dermatologist — Gangaram Ragi — who was charged with sexually assaulting several patients. The woman, Kristin, who did not want her last name released, says in the video the prosecutor referred Ragi to pre-trial intervention and he still practices. According to The Record, Ragi has been subject to pre-trial intervention not once but twice.”

    chicagofinance says:
    October 6, 2015 at 10:55 am
    LITTLE FERRY – Today, a priest is to be arraigned on charges he pointed an unloaded musket at an 8-year-old boy in the church rectory, as the debate turned to which NFL team was better: the Cowboys or the Giants. Of course, the priest said it was all fun and games. Ha. Ha. Prosecutors say the priest – a rabid Giants fan – asked the boy to step into one of the rectory’s rooms and stand against a wall, where he pointed the musket at him. The priest’s lawyer says it was all just some uproarious, “innocent banter.” Yeah, tell that to this kid’s mom.

  40. Libturd in Union says:

    Forget terminal C. When I was in Philly Airport last time, they were everywhere!

  41. D-FENS says:

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/man-comes-to-defense-of-little-ferry-priest-accused-of-pointing-rifle-at-boy-1.1425299

    LITTLE FERRY — Blasting law enforcement officials, a man who said he was an eyewitness Sunday disputed the Bergen County prosecutor’s allegation that a Catholic priest aimed an unloaded replica of a Civil War rifle at an 8-year-old boy last month.

    Richard Fritzky, an adjunct professor at Fairleigh Dickinson University, came to the defense of the Rev. Kevin Carter, 54, pastor of St. Margaret of Cortona Church in the borough.

    “I neither saw Father Kevin raise the rifle nor threaten anyone,” said Fritzky, former president of the Meadowlands Regional Chamber of Commerce.

  42. joyce says:

    Another author that doesn’t know how the banking and monetary systems work.

    yome says:
    October 6, 2015 at 10:23 am

    … but the money is being loaned out in the American economy by American banks, funding American mortgages and small-business loans just like any other American deposit.

  43. 1987 Condo says:

    #41..someone looking for a quick buck? Does “replica” mean toy? The kid came into the room to show the priest he was wearing his Cowboys shirt to raz the priest about the Giants.

  44. chicagofinance says:

    You could make the case that the tablets were coming anyway…. min wage or not…..

    Libturd in Union says:
    October 6, 2015 at 10:57 am
    I’m telling you. Go into any fast casual restaurant. The prices have skyrocketed ahead of the $15/hr salaries.

    Had to up and out early this morning. Stopped in Dunkin. Sh1tty bagel with cream cheese and coffee was $5.50. At Smashburger, burger, soda and fries are $12 easy.

    The market should determine wages. Where will these poor people eat? And where will they work as this accelerates the adoption of kiosks. I’m seeing them everywhere now. And with less people behind the counter, the quality suffers. My online ordered Panera salad was 15 minutes late the last time I picked it up. Heck. The salad I get at au bon paine for free is up to $9.45 before tax.

  45. All Hype says:

    “This sums it up perfectly. Why is this even a discussion?”

    No discussion needed.

    Glad to be back here after a long hiatus. Spent some time hanging out with Mrs. and Little Hype and enjoying life.

  46. All Hype says:

    “I’m telling you. Go into any fast casual restaurant. The prices have skyrocketed ahead of the $15/hr salaries.”

    Lib, the food quality has not improved to warrant such a dramatic increase. Smash Burger is not worth the cost.

  47. All Hype says:

    BTW, still_looking has left working in the hospital and is now happily working in an Urgent Care Center. She has never been happier as a doctor. All the really sick people she sees goes to the ER. So sort of a happy ending there!

  48. Fast Eddie says:

    Smash Burger is not worth the cost.

    None of them are worth it. We have thousands of these eateries and one s.ucks more than the other. I dread going to any of them. Even the so-called high end restaurants are so-so and all from fast food to top end are over-priced.

  49. 1987 Condo says:

    I take family to local fast casual, have $10 coupon. Pay bill with CC. Card does not come back for awhile. I inquire. card turns up. 3 days later, charge on my CC for $299 drone……

  50. Fast Eddie says:

    The dem0crats could care less about income inequality or compassion for the lesser muppets. It’s a guise for votes and power consolidation. The republ1can should grow some b@lls and take some lessons from the f.ucked up left on how to silently slither.

  51. D-FENS says:

    I think he was a civil war buff or re-enactor or something.

    The rifle functions…albeit it is quite a core to load.

    If he aimed the rifle at the boy, then he deserves what he gets.

    What gets me is that the prosecutor was quick to charge, and seems to be seeking witnesses who corroborate the boy’s story and not those who contradict it.

    1987 Condo says:
    October 6, 2015 at 11:38 am
    #41..someone looking for a quick buck? Does “replica” mean toy? The kid came into the room to show the priest he was wearing his Cowboys shirt to raz the priest about the Giants.

  52. Fast Eddie says:

    All Hype,

    I was wondering how still looking was doing. Good to hear. In fact, it’s good to see you back again.

  53. Libturd in Union says:

    When you have a kid who plays on three travel teams (fortunately only in the fall) and another who has therapy three times a week, you are left with no choice but to frequent fast casual places. Smash has a decent Cobb Salad. Though they mess up my order all the time. I rarely get a burger these days. And when I do, it’s the kids menu burger.

    Chi… I did say, “accelerates the adoption of kiosks.” True, they were probably going there anyway. But when your payroll doubles overnight and then scale it to chain size, the decision becomes a lot easier.

  54. Libturd in Union says:

    Condo…not much you can do. I have all of my accounts consolidated on Yodlee (most use Mint). I check for unusual charges every evening. No biggie, but it is an annoyance.

  55. grim says:

    Next time I get sick I’m just going to call up S_L and go for a cash-visit.

    I see nothing wrong with a black-market cash-based system for medical care. I’m sure we’ll both do better than under the current system.

  56. leftwing says:

    Yome 28, 29, etc

    The postings seem to be a discovery of how financial markets work. Companies absolutely, unabashedly, and legally find the cheapest sourcing of funds available. No crime or surprise there. Been the case for at least two centuries.

    On 28 in particular, far from showing Apple in a bad light it shows how absolutely stup1d the US government and knee-jerk liberals are. The Apple products have been sold, the profits booked, the cash collected, and it is sitting in the US. Yet the Feds, stomping their feet like possessed five year olds, are keeping this cash already in the US from being invested in more jobs, development, and real estate *in the US* all because the company paid a blend of US/Irish tax rates, rather than take the full hit on the chin of the (higher) US tax rate alone.

    Kind of defines cutting off your nose to spite your face, no?

    And for those who say ‘penalize them harder’ recall my post earlier today. Tax something you get less, subsidize it and you get more.

    Bang these multi-nationals hard and you will find them up and leaving the US altogether, not just on paper for tax savings.

  57. leftwing says:

    “I see nothing wrong with a black-market cash-based system for medical care. I’m sure we’ll both do better than under the current system.”

    Get this.

    Yesterday had a friend who lost individual insurance coverage. The reason was not one of the ‘family specific’ events defined by O-Care.

    He is now uninsured until Jan 1.

    You heard it. It is illegal for insurance companies to sign anyone up under the individual mandate now unless the reason the person is uninsured fits certain government criteria (marriage, baby, loss of job, etc).

    You don’t fit those criteria, too bad. You’re 28, uninsured, and determine in March you changed your mind and want to be insured? Too bad, insurance company cannot take your money until the next January. Financial hardship, dropped insurance at the beginning of the year, want to sign up again now? Nope, January only.

    Unbelievable.

    Willing buyer of a product, willing seller and the feds step in and say ‘no’. Crazy, especially given the mandate of O-Care for more universal coverage.

  58. phoenix says:

    57. Along with the crazy of Medicare unable to negotiate the price of drugs.

    Lobbyists and Elected officials -perfect together…..

    The fact that Medicare is forbidden in the law that created Medicare Part D to negotiate lower prices is no accident. The drug lobby worked hard to ensure Medicare wouldn’t be allowed to cut into the profits which would flow to big Pharma thanks to millions of new customers delivered to them by Part D.

  59. Libturd in Union says:

    No different than ACA. I’m paying more and getting less. On the bright side, I am now providing better coverage to those who didn’t have any. Hell of a deal for the insurers, no?

    Both parties, different social causes to get the votes. Same result once in office.

  60. Ragnar says:

    55,
    Good point.
    It’s often mentioned how much more customer friendly and cost effective non-insured treatments have become relative to insured healthcare. For example lasik and cosmetic surgery.

    Veterinarian service for pets seems to be much better and patient-friendly than that given by government to military vets via the VA.

    Market-based incentive systems work.

  61. leftwing says:

    Thanks on 59.

    Presents yet another in a long list of examples of why power ought to be stripped from the Federal government and strict adherence to Amendment X of the Bill of Rights observed.

    “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.”

    Defense, currency, limited interstate commerce, and maybe a couple other powers. Strip the rest, drain the Potomac swamp, and send them all home where they can only do limited harm.

  62. joyce says:

    56
    Leftwing,

    You’re right on everything up until your last sentence.

  63. NJCoast says:

    They’ve already rescinded the permit parking ordinance in Deal.
    I enjoyed the enlarged Deal beaches this past summer as we took walks north from our beach club. It got to the point where we were bringing large garbage bags every time we went. Trash everywhere. It boggles my mind that people would go to the beach and just leave all their trash behind, like bottles of water where each chair was, not even putting their trash in a pile. There were 6 garbage receptacles at the entrance of the beaches. All the public access points were built by the homeowners with their own funds. These beaches are truly a no mans land as the mean high water mark does not change with replenishment. Nobody is patrolling the beaches or watching the bathers or picking up trash. Amazing the disregard for nature and the attitude that there is always somebody else that should clean up your mess!

  64. 1987 Condo says:

    #57..curious as to the circumstances…has he spoken to an insurance broker about some temp coverage in the interim?

  65. D-FENS says:

    “We have individuals that we’ve needed to debrief in Pashto/Dari”
    BY HERSCHEL SMITH
    14 hours, 42 minutes ago
    Coming soon to a church, school, mall, place of work, or neighborhood near you:

    The Texas DPS Director Steven McCraw expressed concern over the possible infiltration of ISIS through the border during a visit to Laredo this week. The comment came during the annual Texas Border Coalition meeting when a member of the audience asked the director if any suspected ISIS members had ever been apprehended on the Texas/Mexico border.

    McCraw said: “Individuals that come across the Texas/Mexican border from a countries with a known terrorism presence and the answer to that is yes. We have individuals that we’ve needed to debrief in Pashto/Dari. Not a lot of Pashto and Dari speakers around. But you can’t think about the last attack; you have to think of the next attack and where our vulnerabilities are. So, we’re concerned about that.”

    From the heart of the pre-historic world in the Hindu-Kush, where the only functioning machines were sold to them for drug or gem money because they don’t know how to build them, to the Texas border. That’s quite a trip, yes?

    Why? Why do you suppose someone would do that?

    Afghanistan,Terrorism

  66. leftwing says:

    Joyce 63.

    Look at the reverse mergers earlier this year and last of US companies into overseas, especially Irish.

    Absolutely guaranteed. Capital moves where it is best treated. The US needs these companies more than they need the US.

    1970s, different world. Now there are many stable, democratic governments with strong rule of law more than willing to take these guys in.

  67. leftwing says:

    1987 Condo

    LMK if you have a solution with an insurance broker.

    He’s desperate. Called me asking if I could put him on payroll and under coverage until Jan 1, he would pay. Can’t do for obvious reasons….

    His loss of individual coverage was deemed ‘voluntary’ and the last time he was insured was over 60 days ago. Those two seem to be the nails in the coffin.

    If you have someone who knows better please LMK. He’s desperate.

  68. phoenix says:

    67. Really? Do other countries treat corporations as “individuals?”
    I pray there does not come a day when a ” Boeing” aircraft, made in China, drops a bomb in an American city.
    Companies are as loyal to a country as an ex-wife is to her ex-husband.
    They can turn on you and will do so any chance they get. The pathology is endless.
    What would the “founding fathers” think of corporations if they were still around to see what traitors they are?
    Let them move, tariff them into non-existence here. Start production and industry in this country for itself again.

    “The US needs these companies more than they need the US.”

  69. HouseWhineWine says:

    Regarding picking up fast food @ post 53 – you can make a sandwich with lettuce, tomato, whatever meat at home in less time than it takes to pick up fast food, usually. Maybe an apple with it? That’s what I remember doing when we were dashing all over NJ with our children and their activities. Snacks of nuts, raisins, dried fruit, cereal, crackers with peanut butter. I guess it’s harder though if you are looking for a hot meal to pack stuff up.

  70. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Exactly!

    phoenix says:
    October 6, 2015 at 1:06 pm
    67. Really? Do other countries treat corporations as “individuals?”
    I pray there does not come a day when a ” Boeing” aircraft, made in China, drops a bomb in an American city.
    Companies are as loyal to a country as an ex-wife is to her ex-husband.
    They can turn on you and will do so any chance they get. The pathology is endless.
    What would the “founding fathers” think of corporations if they were still around to see what traitors they are?
    Let them move, tariff them into non-existence here. Start production and industry in this country for itself again.

    “The US needs these companies more than they need the US.”

  71. 1987 Condo says:

    #68, have him try http://www.ehealthinsurance.com and fill out the required data and click “No Life Event”..options for Short Term coverage to bridge to next open enrollment should come up. Hopefully he can see if that works.

  72. Libturd in Union says:

    House…we do that sometimes too. Gator Jr. had 100 minutes to get from the Ocean Ice Palace in Brick to Hackettstown on Saturday. Sandwiches were had.

  73. Libturd in Union says:

    Gas for $1.77 in Union. Just wow.

  74. anon (the good one) says:

    what argument? there’s zero, nil, no evidence to support it.

    right wingers position on minimum wage is purely POLITICS.

    same way you guys once argued the planet was flat, or that there’s no climate change.

    “Grim can articulate and form the perfect argument upside down, backwards and sideways but it will never matter to anon.”

  75. Fast Eddie says:

    anon,

    What do you do for a living?

  76. Juice Box says:

    Anon – I don’t think self-flagellation counts as an occupation, so put down other.

  77. D-FENS says:

    What blog have you been reading? The negative effects of a minimum wage hike have been discussed here at length. I realize the INTENT is to help people making minimum wage, but there is a real risk that it would hurt them.

    You either know this and don’t care…or your brain shuts down and you ignore rational thought on the subject if it doesn’t support your position.

    anon (the good one) says:
    October 6, 2015 at 2:18 pm
    what argument? there’s zero, nil, no evidence to support it.

    right wingers position on minimum wage is purely POLITICS.

    same way you guys once argued the planet was flat, or that there’s no climate change.

  78. Pete says:

    Leftwing,

    I believe he is out of luck. Short term insurance would be an option in other states but it is not underwritten in nj.

    To add insukt to injury ii also believe he is subject to the mandate penalty for the months he is without insurance.

  79. grim says:

    80 – Is that the actual case? What a clusterf*ck…

  80. nwnj3 says:

    #79

    Great value system they have, it figures wall street was drooling over the business model. Now consider large portions of the government and economy are run with that mentality and it’s no surprise where things are heading.

  81. Pete says:

    I would contact a insurance broker to confirm and maybe call up the individual insurers.

    There are exemptions to the penalty but without knowing much it doesn’t sound like he would be eligible. For any.

  82. chicagofinance says:

    That story is fantastic…..

    JJ says:
    October 6, 2015 at 2:39 pm
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-10-06/how-two-guys-lost-god-and-found-40-million

    if me and CHFI met earlier this would be us.

  83. Comrade Nom Deplume, from the Hub of the Solar System. says:

    I’m willing to bet anon was let go from some job and spent an extended period on unemployment. I’ve seen his sort of bitterness before and the common denominator was a sense of unfairness over being dismissed. It’s never their fault and their lack of wealth relative to others is clearly unfair.

    One guy who felt similarly aggrieved and projected his failings on others went and shot two coworkers on live TV.

  84. chicagofinance says:

    jj: quote of the year…… “It’s a matter of time before we get involved with something else,” Hurwitz says. “We can’t sit around and golf and f— beautiful ladies all day.”

  85. Not NWNJ3 says:

    Read that article and agree with you. And that is why you see the economy he way it is. The way things are today the old guilded age caveat “Caveat Emptor” applies to every business transaction severely, is best not to make a purchase than to do it a be guaranteed that you’ll be in the losings end, without recourse.

    nwnj3 says:
    October 6, 2015 at 3:27 pm

    #79

    Great value system they have, it figures wall street was drooling over the business model. Now consider large portions of the government and economy are run with that mentality and it’s no surprise where things are heading.

  86. Not NWNJ3 says:

    By the way, these two need to be lined up and shot. By the jewish people themselves.

    For aiding and abetting an ethnic stereotype in the eyes of the public.

  87. grim says:

    When someone approaches you with a “deal”, isn’t that always enough information for you to know you are probably getting screwed?

    I see this all the time with business brokers. Friends and relatives tell me about this great business that was offered up to them for sale. Look at the cash flow, look at potential.

    My response always the same. If it was so f*cking cut and dry, profitable, why the f*ck would someone sell it? Give me a break. The numbers are cooked.

    If you can’t spot the sucker at the table, it’s because it’s you.

  88. yome says:

    “Absolutely guaranteed. Capital moves where it is best treated. The US needs these companies more than they need the US.”

    The US is more than 29% of World Top Consumer Market coming next is Japan at almost 8.5%. Seems to me, we can really squeezed this companies and get what we want.

    http://www.internationalbusinessguide.org/25-largest-consumers-markets-outlook-2015/

  89. yome says:

    A company whose profits are largely driven by intellectual property—patents and copyrights—can fairly simply make most of its profits appear to be from subsidiaries in low-tax jurisdictions. Imagine a U.S. corporation with research and development labs in California, churning out new technology that is then sold primarily to a U.S. market. The U.S. corporation establishes a subsidiary in a tax-haven country. The parent corporation then sells its patents and copyrights—the fruits of its U.S. R&D, and the source of all of its profits—to the wholly owned subsidiary in a low-tax jurisdiction, for a very low price. The subsidiary now owns the intellectual property and can charge royalties to the parent company in the United States, at very high rates, when the parent company wants to manufacture and sell the patented item. The royalty payments made by the U.S. parent company are considered costs to the U.S. parent and income to the foreign subsidiary.
    Suddenly, the little wholly owned subsidiary in Luxembourg is one of the most profitable companies on earth, while the U.S. parent company is barely meeting expenses. Profits driven by R&D, manufacturing, and even sales in the United States are now considered foreign income for tax purposes and benefit from deferral. By paying outrageous prices to rent back its own intellectual property from its own controlled subsidiary, the U.S. parent company has just stripped its U.S. profits into a tax-haven country and avoided paying U.S. corporate income taxes, without any change to the real-world structure of its business. The total pre-tax income of the multinational as a whole stays the same, all of the real activity—jobs, sales, manufacturing activities—stays the same, but the tax bill declines.

    How much lower than zero can you Tax a Company?

  90. Ragnar says:

    anon is an online community organizer.

  91. phoenix says:

    91. Only ones that pay the full nut in taxes are those with a W2.

  92. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And people wonder why their taxes go up and the infrastructure is falling apart….here is their answer. Your post says it all. It’s all you need to know. How do these people sleep at night? Complete and total lack of care for society or the people living in it. They are not lying when they say money corrupts absolutely. Really sad. Fast eddie, are these the people you look up to as gods? The so called 1% that makes your life better? Trust me when I say we would all be better off with the top 1% eliminated. Your life would be so much better off. They have taken so much and have given nothing back. F them!

    yome says:
    October 6, 2015 at 5:02 pm
    A company whose profits are largely driven by intellectual property—patents and copyrights—can fairly simply make most of its profits appear to be from subsidiaries in low-tax jurisdictions. Imagine a U.S. corporation with research and development labs in California, churning out new technology that is then sold primarily to a U.S. market. The U.S. corporation establishes a subsidiary in a tax-haven country. The parent corporation then sells its patents and copyrights—the fruits of its U.S. R&D, and the source of all of its profits—to the wholly owned subsidiary in a low-tax jurisdiction, for a very low price. The subsidiary now owns the intellectual property and can charge royalties to the parent company in the United States, at very high rates, when the parent company wants to manufacture and sell the patented item. The royalty payments made by the U.S. parent company are considered costs to the U.S. parent and income to the foreign subsidiary.
    Suddenly, the little wholly owned subsidiary in Luxembourg is one of the most profitable companies on earth, while the U.S. parent company is barely meeting expenses. Profits driven by R&D, manufacturing, and even sales in the United States are now considered foreign income for tax purposes and benefit from deferral. By paying outrageous prices to rent back its own intellectual property from its own controlled subsidiary, the U.S. parent company has just stripped its U.S. profits into a tax-haven country and avoided paying U.S. corporate income taxes, without any change to the real-world structure of its business. The total pre-tax income of the multinational as a whole stays the same, all of the real activity—jobs, sales, manufacturing activities—stays the same, but the tax bill declines.

    How much lower than zero can you Tax a Company?

  93. The Great Pumpkin says:

    That’s the truth! So messed up.

    phoenix says:
    October 6, 2015 at 5:52 pm
    91. Only ones that pay the full nut in taxes are those with a W2.

  94. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Well said!

    grim says:
    October 6, 2015 at 4:54 pm
    When someone approaches you with a “deal”, isn’t that always enough information for you to know you are probably getting screwed?

    I see this all the time with business brokers. Friends and relatives tell me about this great business that was offered up to them for sale. Look at the cash flow, look at potential.

    My response always the same. If it was so f*cking cut and dry, profitable, why the f*ck would someone sell it? Give me a break. The numbers are cooked.

    If you can’t spot the sucker at the table, it’s because it’s you.

  95. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Agreed! They are destroying the economy by sucking it dry. These people should be lined up and shot. Who knows how many people are suffering at their hands.

    Not NWNJ3 says:
    October 6, 2015 at 4:45 pm
    Read that article and agree with you. And that is why you see the economy he way it is. The way things are today the old guilded age caveat “Caveat Emptor” applies to every business transaction severely, is best not to make a purchase than to do it a be guaranteed that you’ll be in the losings end, without recourse.

    nwnj3 says:
    October 6, 2015 at 3:27 pm

    #79

    Great value system they have, it figures wall street was drooling over the business model. Now consider large portions of the government and economy are run with that mentality and it’s no surprise where things are heading.

  96. The Great Pumpkin says:

    yup. Just feeding the stereotype.

    Not NWNJ3 says:
    October 6, 2015 at 4:48 pm
    By the way, these two need to be lined up and shot. By the jewish people themselves.

    For aiding and abetting an ethnic stereotype in the eyes of the public.

  97. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You should be thankful that this new economy didn’t chew you up and spit you out yet. If things continue, it will, no one will be safe.

    Comrade Nom Deplume, from the Hub of the Solar System. says:
    October 6, 2015 at 4:36 pm
    I’m willing to bet anon was let go from some job and spent an extended period on unemployment. I’ve seen his sort of bitterness before and the common denominator was a sense of unfairness over being dismissed. It’s never their fault and their lack of wealth relative to others is clearly unfair.

    One guy who felt similarly aggrieved and projected his failings on others went and shot two coworkers on live TV.

  98. The Great Pumpkin says:

    19/20- Great analysis, Grim. This is interesting.

  99. Libtard in bed says:

    G’night plumpy.

  100. Comrade Nom Deplume and his amazing trick back says:

    [99] pumpkin,

    It’s pretty clear you know nothing of the legal profession. It’s not the new economy that does the chewing and spitting. And the two distinct threats, offshoring and MDP, aren’t new.

    Tech and paradigm shifts are hitting law, but they aren’t hitting me. In fact, lawyers are the ultimate shapeShifters in that regard.

  101. Comrade Nom Deplume and his amazing trick back says:

    [91] yome

    With NOL carry forward and carryback, the answer to your question is It Depends.

    Of course, it’s really a form of multi year smoothing, but NOL carry forwards have the effect of reducing tax to zero, and even resulting in refunds in a year when there was no tax liability.

  102. Comrade Nom Deplume and his amazing trick back says:

    [91] yome,

    And there are some glaring defects in the piece you cut and pasted. I’d be happy to tell you (and more to the point, the author) why it’s bogus and why it will have IRS up your ass in a NY minute, but I paid a year’s tuition at NYU Law to learn this stuff so I’ll be wanting a return on that investment first.

  103. NJChoo says:

    I have a question… was gonna make an offer on a house and received the offer letter from our agent… and found something curious. Why is he marking himself down as “transaction broker” instead of “buyer’s agent”? Seems a bit shady.

    Heh, been following this blog forever and I would appreciate some feedback!

Comments are closed.