The rise and fall of the office park

From CityLab:

The Sad State of Suburban Office Parks

A report from the real estate service firm NGKF released late last year provides new numbers on an ongoing phenomenon: the slow, agonizing death of the American office park. The report looks at five far-flung office tenancy submarkets—Santa Clara, in the San Francisco Bay Area; Denver; the O’Hare region in Chicago; Reston/Herndon outside of Washington, D.C.; and Parsippany, New Jersey—and finds a general aura of decline.

Between 14 and 22 percent of the suburban office inventory in these areas is “in some stage of obsolescence,” suggesting that between 600 million and 1 billion square feet of office space are far from ideal for the modern company and worker. That’s about 7.5 percent of the country’s entire office inventory.

What makes an office park “obsolete?” Arguably the most important amenity for the modern office is location, location, location. This aspect of an office park is difficult to change. So-called Class A office space is in transit-oriented areas that are at least close to highways. These offices don’t need to be in walkable, urban neighborhoods—though that’s ideal. At the very least, today’s workers want to get lunch or maybe even a workout without firing up an engine, NGKF finds. The newest figures from the commercial real estate service firm CBRE bear this out: 10.4 percent of downtown office spaces are currently unoccupied, compared to 15.0 percent of suburban ones.

The decline of the office park is part of a larger story, often told, about shifting American working and housing preferences, from sprawling, isolated, “safe,” and cubicled suburban campuses to more well-connected and increasingly well-funded urban open floor plans. (The office park itself was a rejection of the city: “The first office park opened in Mountain Brook, Alabama, an upper-class white suburb of Birmingham, in the early 1950s as commuters became uneasy with simmering racial tension in city centers,” a recent Washington Post piece notes.)

The growing freelance economy, which sees fewer people traveling to a desk each morning, has contributed to a larger, national decline in the amount of office space occupied by workers. Much of country doesn’t need the wide-open office campus anymore.

But as the world (mostly) marches on without them, what will existing office parks be when they grow up?

There are models that developers are using to transform older office parks throughout the country, to measured success. They mostly involve turning definitely-suburban office parks into urban-like, albeit still isolated, office “cities.” (It is worth noting that many of these projects involve extensive rezoning efforts.) A facility in the community of Edina, Minnesota, is in the midst of transforming from sprawling office center into what one local developer called “not your father’s or mother’s office park.” In practice, that means linking the park to 15 miles of bike trails, big box store-free retail, and green space. Other struggling office parks are talking farmers markets, hotels, and housing.

Sure, those are familiar buzzwords. But it appears that the office park is not going down without a fight.

This entry was posted in Demographics, Economics, Employment, National Real Estate, New Development. Bookmark the permalink.

111 Responses to The rise and fall of the office park

  1. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  2. Raymond Reddington says:

    Good morning to all of those who love America

  3. Bojangles’ minister says god damn Amerika.

  4. D-FENS says:

    I say God Damn New Jersey.

  5. 1987 Condo says:

    Office park…in the 1990’s we “begged” to “telecommute” a few days a week….but no…could not be properly supervised…now my current company refuses to give me an office id…and is “Home-Shoring” as many employees as possible…..

    I will also predict that in the “future” many folks will work from home, but those little cameras will be activated so that your supervisor will have “access” to their staff…..that should put a dent in the enthusiasm for working from home…

  6. Fast Eddie says:

    I’m not understanding this article entirely. If you’re not working from home, where are you commuting to in the morning to go to work? For our area, is everything now in Hoboken, Jersey City or Manhattan? So, when you get married and have one kid and a second on the way, to what location are you moving?

  7. chicagofinance says:

    This morning an economist on Bloomberg referred to low wage/low skill jobs as “bed pans and burger flipping”…… LOL

  8. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    Nothing like getting back in the office after taking your MTA over the holidays. Hardest part is remembering your passwords. See the usual BS is being spewed around. Anyway Happy New Year!!!!

    Without a ‘Rainy Day Fund,’ New Jersey Could Be Hurt By Another Big Recession

    If the United States were hit by another Great Recession, just how well would New Jersey stand up to the financial storm?

    Not very well at all, according to some analysts. New Jersey doesn’t maintain a dedicated rainy-day fund to hedge against revenue drops. And the size of its general-fund surplus is just a small percentage of overall spending. What’s more, the state is still struggling to recover completely from the most recent economic downturn.

    That helps explain why New Jersey finished 47th of 50 states in a new study of “recession readiness” that was released yesterday by George Mason University’s conservative-leaning Mercatus Center.

    http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/16/01/06/with-no-dedicated-rainy-day-fund-new-jersey-could-be-hurt-by-another-big-recession/

  9. FKA 2010 Buyer says:

    Move along, nothing to see here. What is this climate change BS everyone is talking about?

    Artificial lawn looks nice. Never have to mow it.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/what-drought-california-celebs-with-green-lawns/17/

  10. chicagofinance says:

    great headline…..
    Emergency Crews Rescue Miners Stuck in New York Salt Mine

  11. Fabius Maximus says:

    Lib

    Having trouble posting. Nearest rink is Westwood. I can do Hackensack or Palisades NY as well. Was thinking about all those nice MA and ME schools with good programs and big scholarship funds.

  12. ChiFi [10];

    May be after your time in the area, but I was in Rochester when the Livingston salt mine collapsed. Morning news reported an earthquake overnight until the nature of the situation became clear.

    Central NY has a long salt mining history (famous recipe for Syracuse salt potatoes). That mine near Geneseo produced a large segment of the world’s table salt. It was a decade or so later that “sea salt” grew in popularity as supply shifted.

    Nice to hear the men are out safely.

  13. Comrade Nom Deplume, whose only knowledge of Oxford extends to commas says:

    [prior thread] Fabius Maximus says:

    January 7, 2016 at 12:58 am

    #99 TinPot

    I see the issue here.

    “post hoc ergo propter hoc” is not a rhetorical fallacy, it is a correlation fallacy. Now I know you live your life in rhetorical fallacies. Your sweeping generalizations of “how the left think” show that!. But when you get down to the hard definitions, I think you need a refresher course.”

    +++++++

    If I didn’t get up before you finished your shift, I would never have caught this. Almost wish I didn’t but it screams for a rejoinder

    So when argument fails you, you resort to deflection and nitpicking? Not surprised. And since we are picking nits, it isn’t a correlation fallacy so much as it is (as all of these devices are) a logical fallacy. Sometimes called a rhetological fallacy, and when used in constructing arguments (badly, natch), a rhetorical fallacy. You want your terms of art, fine, but I want mine. Truck, Lorry, there’s your refresher course.

    Then there is the ad hominem. Can I call that a rhetorical fallacy or does that offend you? You claim to never use it but there it is for others to behold. I make no such pretense of erudition and feel unconstrained to insult your narcissistic, sanctimonious, and hypocritical ass roundly.

    And it finally occurs to me that you deigned to not address your lesser on this board. Yet there you were.

    Do us all a favor: Keep your promise and stick to coding in the dead of night.

  14. Comrade Nom Deplume, whose only knowledge of Oxford extends to commas says:

    [4] DFENS

    “I say God Damn New Jersey.”

    I think He already got around to that.

  15. grim says:

    The salt mines under the great lakes are nuts.

  16. Comrade Nom Deplume, whose only knowledge of Oxford extends to commas says:

    [12]

  17. Sima says:

    I know of at least one company with a manufacturing plant that is about to go under in the Parsippany office park. More jobs to be lost, including factory jobs.

  18. Comrade Nom Deplume, whose only knowledge of Oxford extends to commas says:

    [12]

    “Nearest rink is Westwood. I can do Hackensack or Palisades NY as well. Was thinking about all those nice MA and ME schools with good programs and big scholarship funds.”

    I am reminded of a bumper sticker I saw recently that read “My child cross-checked your Honor Student.”

    Something tells me that the spawn of an elitist effete is going to have a hard time on a hockey rink. Maybe she should stick to lacrosse.

  19. D-FENS says:

    Make data centers out of the old office park buildings.

  20. Fast Eddie says:

    Btw, I am working from home today in outer white landia. It’s a rare telecommuting, remote login day. A deer nibbles on a distant neighbor’s lawn as I write. Oh wait… I think it’s a unicorn.

  21. jcer says:

    21…is it shitting gold florins? I’ve heard that’s what they do in prestigious Bergen county!

  22. grim says:

    Make data centers out of the old office park buildings.

    Like the ADT campus in Clifton?

  23. Raymond Reddington formerly Phoenix says: says:

    Chinese Shopkins factory working overtime on all 3 shifts.
    We need to bring Shopkins manufacturing to the USA……

  24. Raymond Reddington formerly Phoenix says: says:

    9. That guy putting down the turf- same guy that cut it last week?

  25. Raymond Reddington formerly Phoenix says: says:

    25.D-FENS,
    Now imagine if any American citizen was in the same situation, and could legally say (and was a legal defense for some) that he felt his life was threatened.

    That defense is only for a sacred few……

  26. Libturd at home says:

    Fab…don’t be like the average hockey parent and believe that a scholarship is going to occur. I hope that was sarcasm in your post. I would highly recommend the programs at the Ice House in Hackensack over those other two. 4 rinks add a lot of flexibility in scheduling and as she grows, less 6am games and practices. The programs there are well run too. My kid is considering Triple A in the Fall, but that requires an insane commitment by both his parents and himself. He’s still a straight-A student, but not a gifted and talented type. Just a very hard worker in everything he does. With all that said, I know his chances of obtaining sports-related college aid are about one in one thousand. So I am not banking on it. At ten years old, there’s still a ton of time for him to decide that hockey is too much work.

  27. Statler Waldorf says:

    No surprise US office parks are dying. US companies are replacing American employees with foreigners as fast as possible.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=india+office+park&source=lnms&tbm=isch

    Lots of growth in other countries, as traitor politicians and CEOs sell out their country.

  28. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Amen! Makes me sick!

    Statler Waldorf says:
    January 7, 2016 at 11:16 am
    No surprise US office parks are dying. US companies are replacing American employees with foreigners as fast as possible.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=india+office+park&source=lnms&tbm=isch

    Lots of growth in other countries, as traitor politicians and CEOs sell out their country.

  29. Mike says:

    8
    Daiichi Sankyo, Inc. ?

  30. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Hell yea, I am a real American! Fight for the rights of every MAN!! Fight for what’s right!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrZt45PEbSk

    Raymond Reddington says:
    January 7, 2016 at 6:55 am
    Good morning to all of those who love America

  31. Comrade Nom Deplume, Newspeak Editor says:

    [27] Raymond

    “That defense is only for a sacred few……”

    Ask any judge in NJ and they will tell you basically the same thing because “you are not entitled to anymore self defense than the next person” (direct quote from an NJ judge). But the sacred few include former cops and military (Joyce, feel free to jump in here).

  32. Raymond Reddington formerly Phoenix says: says:

    29. Statler,
    A quote from the other day,

    “I care about much more than my family, however, I could give a sh1t about America right now.”

    Imagine if you made that statement in a school auditorium in front of elementary school students,minus the foul language. What would be their reaction? How would they feel if their father was a serviceman in the Armed Forces? How would they look at you and the world around them?

    For the most part, those kids are stuck here, at least for many years.
    They were born into the the situation they are in.
    They deserve the same chances to succeed as the adults that proceeded them.
    That would be the right thing to do.

    2 news stories from today, one posted earlier 11- FKA
    Only one person, the lawyer in the story, had the courage to do the right thing.
    EPA, town Officials, lawyers, corporate officers, corporate scientists all covered up the “Teflon Flu” for years. No one had the courage to hit the stop button. I believe in capitalism, money is a good motivator, but really……

    Story number 2 was about Saudi Arabia and their looming financial crisis due to low oil prices.
    Fuel costs there going to quadruple, and other issues.
    Part of the story was how the locals were so used to their mega suv’s that they love so much because gas was subsidized.
    Bottom line, people will take what you give them, with little regard to anything else…..

  33. Raymond Reddington formerly Phoenix says: says:

    CND,
    On same page. I’m no lawyer, but combine that with this- I’m sure you are familiar.
    Don’t know where were headed, but does not look good at all…..

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

  34. Raymond Reddington formerly Phoenix says: says:

    32. Pumps.
    No doubt. Hang on tight-gonna be rough ahead.

  35. joyce says:

    35
    Police have “no special duty” to aid a citizen facing an immediate lethal threat, contended David Santoro, City Attorney for New York, in a successful bid to dismiss a lawsuit filed by Philadelphia native Joe Lozito. Lozito was nearly killed while subduing a slasher-killer named Maxim Gelman during a 2011 subway attack. Lozito, an unarmed man trained in mixed martial arts, tackled and subdued Gelman, who was being sought for the murder of three people.

    As Lozito desperately sank a chokehold on Gelman, the maniac cleaved open the back of Lozito’s head. Bleeding and struggling to retain consciousness, Lozito pleaded for help from NYPD Officer Terrance Howell, who was cowering behind a locked partition and refusing to get involved. It wasn’t until Lozito managed to pin Gelman down and disarm him that Howell emerged from his secure location, officiously telling Lozito, “You can get up now.”

    Howell did nothing to detain or subdue the murderer, but he was the one photographed triumphantly escorting Gelman away from the scene in handcuffs, and was hailed as a “hero cop” in the media. He later admitted to a member of a grand jury that he hid from the suspect out of fear for his safety — and no moral or policy consideration is more important than the sacred principle of “officer safety.”
    http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2015/09/your-duty-to-protect-and-serve-police.html

  36. chi (7)-

    Loofah my stretch marks.

    “This morning an economist on Bloomberg referred to low wage/low skill jobs as “bed pans and burger flipping”…… LOL”

  37. joyce says:

    I assume charges are coming forthwith:

    Associated Press

    BEAVER, Pa.— A grenade that led authorities to evacuate a Pennsylvania county courthouse was a gag gift intended for the newly elected sheriff.

    Instead, Beaver County Sheriff Tony Guy ordered the evacuation as a precaution after the box was X-rayed as part of Wednesday’s incoming mail.

    Authorities say the sender is friends with the sheriff and had clearly labeled the box with his return address. District Attorney David Lozier says the man was upset that the gift caused such problems and cooperated with investigators.

    The grenade was harmless. It was mounted on a plaque with a sign reading, “Complaint department. Take a number.” A numbered plastic ticket was attached to the grenade’s pin.

    The courthouse was evacuated for about 80 minutes.

  38. gluteus (12)-

    Your girl should do well playing with a bunch of gals named Fred and Buster.

    “Was thinking about all those nice MA and ME schools with good programs and big scholarship funds.”

  39. The biggest decision most female hockey players have to make at the beginning of their NCAA career is how many more concussions they can tolerate before they have to hang it up.

  40. chi (10)-

    The real insanity is that natty gas companies want to fill the empty salt caverns under Seneca Lake with frack gas.

    What could go wrong?

  41. plume (14)-

    Don’t forget moving the target/changing the subject. Gluteus is simply an advanced level troll.

    “So when argument fails you, you resort to deflection and nitpicking?”

  42. moose (13)-

    The only thing good that comes out of Syracuse is 1-81.

    “Central NY has a long salt mining history (famous recipe for Syracuse salt potatoes).”

  43. plume (19)-

    Lacrosse, where kids like my daughter await her with a cross check to the throat.

    “Something tells me that the spawn of an elitist effete is going to have a hard time on a hockey rink. Maybe she should stick to lacrosse.”

  44. dfens (20)-

    I say turn them into grow houses and br0thels.

    “Make data centers out of the old office park buildings.”

  45. leftwing says:

    “Lots of growth in other countries, as traitor politicians and CEOs sell out their country.”

    Country needs me more than I need it. Treat me better and I’ll stay.

    “I care about much more than my family, however, I could give a sh1t about America right now. – Imagine if you made that statement in a school auditorium in front of elementary school students,minus the foul language. What would be their reaction? How would they feel if their father was a serviceman in the Armed Forces? How would they look at you and the world around them?”

    Uhm, realistically? I’m the poster of that comment. I grew up in a white-bread, whole milk, flag waving, patriotic part of the country. Was ROTC. Company commander, no less.

    Patriotic nationalism is a relatively recent historical phenomenon. If you support it so strongly make a cogent argument that it is the preferred system, especially as practiced in America. From my view, like other emotion based decision systems, it is used to paper over serious existing defects.

    America is on a serious downward spiral and many of her policies and practices are antithetical to the well being of many of her citizens. To know such yet accept it, and even support it, with jingoism is insanity.

    Pure emotion based decision making, eliminating reason and fact and substituting charged concepts such as ‘patriotism’ and ‘traitor’. The currency of fools and charlatans.

  46. Comrade Nom Deplume, the anon-tidote says:

    [35] ray

    Yeah, not really news. And it galls me insofar as the government, by restricting access to means of self defense, appoints itself parens patriae for the masses but then disclaims any responsibility for the safety of the populace.

    I get that there simply cannot be a rule imputing any broad liability, but we aren’t talking about strict liability or even general negligence. I regard situations where police, who have a duty yet clearly refuse to act on that duty, to be gross negligence. But the courts don’t see this my way, at least not this time.

  47. Comrade Nom Deplume, the anon-tidote says:

    [47] leftwing

    I love hearing lefties screaming about patriotism and treason when just a decade ago, it was “Dissent is Patriotic.”

    Liberalism=Hypocrisy.

  48. Comrade Nom Deplume, the anon-tidote says:

    [47] left, redux

    “America is on a serious downward spiral and many of her policies and practices are antithetical to the well being of many of her citizens. To know such yet accept it, and even support it, with jingoism is insanity.”

    Juxtapose the fact that the same people who urge us to throw open our borders to those who want to come in, decry those who want to leave as “despicable”.

    http://nypost.com/2012/05/17/schumer-takes-aim-at-facebook-co-founder-eduardo-saverin-as-he-proposes-law-to-tax-expats/

  49. Bystander says:

    “The only thing good that comes out of Syracuse is 1-81”

    Classic, clot. I spent 4 years in upstate NY and the only things I miss are wings, Heids hot dogs and good looking girls with low expectations.

  50. Fast Eddie says:

    Loofah my stretch marks.

    Just entered the top ten all time phrases uttered on this blog. I think you own 8 out of 10 of them. I think the term “Boyaaa” has got to be number one.

  51. Fast Eddie says:

    I spent 4 years in upstate NY

    You escaped or got off for good behavior? ;)

  52. Bystander says:

    Fast,

    Believe me, 4 years of school there felt like prison. It is astonishing how many people stayed behind or even went back after college to raise their kids. It is interesting area for sure. Large groups of Italians and Greeks settled in 1800s when Erie Canal was thriving so you get some nice looking women but they can’t make pasta or sauce for sh#t.

  53. leftwing says:

    50, Nom

    Yes, always the sign of a healthy environment when one needs to build walls – physical or legal – to keep your populace.

    The last Eden I recall that did so was on the other side of Checkpoint Charlie. That ended well.

    The bottom line: The difference between America and other developed countries over the last half century on key measures – security, political stability, tax regime, social – has narrowed or disappeared entirely. That trend will continue with the service economy and technological developments. Physical location continues to become even less relevant.

    In this brave new world the US has three choices – become more competitive on these key measures, appeal to its citizens’ emotions in the face of negative empiric evidence, or build a wall to keep its capital and people in when they want to depart. We are at a key decision making junction.

  54. Fast Eddie says:

    Large groups of Italians and Greeks settled in 1800s when Erie Canal was thriving so you get some nice looking women but they can’t make pasta or sauce for sh#t.

    LOL! If they look like Apollonia and can make love, then we’ll forgive the bland gravy and mushy pasta. :)

  55. leftwing says:

    Sweet at age 20, railway boxcars at age 40………

    Rent, don’t own.

  56. Raymond Reddington formerly Phoenix says: says:

    47. lw
    As practiced.
    Key words. What exactly is “as practiced.”
    Hb1 visas, student visas ( as practiced by republican and democrat businesses alike)
    Immigration- Republicans love the cheap labor from the south, just want them to leave after the roofing and framing is done, Democrats want to allow them to stay, make them citizens and give benefits. neither side wants anything completely blocked.

    Follow the money-follow the power, the egos.
    Plenty of us who have worked hard, earned and saved don’t want it taken away.
    Some run. Makes sense. Some can’t run-for many reasons.
    This mess did not happen overnight. It’s like a stock market collapse in slow motion.
    The earliest, the oldest, the first out are one’s in the lifeboat. No one to say women and children first..

    CND,
    Can’t know for sure how many, but I’d bet there are plenty people who don’t want the borders opened, don’t want as much free trade, work very hard, yet would like some of those who wish to leave would instead try to make the USA better than it currently is. Some of those that wish to leave are people who could have the greatest positive effect yet take off the condom and walk away after they enjoyed what they wanted/needed.

    “Juxtapose the fact that the same people who urge us to throw open our borders to those who want to come in, decry those who want to leave as “despicable”.

  57. Fast Eddie says:

    That’s Apollonia. :) The bodyguard in the “Godfather” described her as something between Greek and Italian.

  58. Raymond Reddington formerly Phoenix says: says:

    Did not realize that my comment in 58 to CND would apply to LW’s comment in 57 but if the shoe fits……

  59. lefty (47)-

    That’s the grift. It’s as old as time itself.

    “Pure emotion based decision making, eliminating reason and fact and substituting charged concepts such as ‘patriotism’ and ‘traitor’. The currency of fools and charlatans.”

  60. Bystander says:

    Left,

    Hah, that is right but I was 22 and they all looked wonderful like Eddie’s pic. I still recall a fancy night out would be $20 at Coleman’s, not $200 at Nobu. When clothes came off it was all same. Freakin NY women. Still I can’t imagine driving to the in laws in mid winter or eating Ragu for dinner though.

  61. leftwing says:

    “As practiced”

    Means the way the country is today in its entirety. The label attached to the actors – Republican or Democrat – is irrelevant. Despite terrible political actors all around and an entire perversion of the political system beyond recognition the populace itself is not without blame. John Q. Public bears significant responsibility for watching this scenery glide by his window while he cares about nothing more than his landscaping and the latest party drink.

    Take the discussions on the merits of living in various US states – NJ v NC for example – and expand that to be US v another developed country.

    If your current US State isn’t working for you and you are willing to locate to another, why should there be an emotional bar on considering a similar national v international evaluation?

    The color of one’s passport is becoming much less relevant.

  62. The goal of right-wing wackos is to destroy its opposition.

    The goal of left-wing wackos is to silence its opposition.

  63. bystander (51)-

    You get the feeling a lot of upstate NY women regard any guy who doesn’t drink all day and beat them as a catch.

  64. If you’re in upstate NY, hard to beat a Shirk’s hot dog.

  65. gary (52)-

    I can’t take full credit on that one. “Loofah my stretch marks” is a line from Caddyshack.

  66. leftwing says:

    LOL, Ragu for dinner. Man, some spot on funny comments on Upstate today. I-81 one is a killer.

  67. joyce says:

    Caddyshack

    Fast Eddie says:
    January 7, 2016 at 1:24 pm
    Loofah my stretch marks.

  68. bystander (54)-

    Crazy as shit Italian and Greek women up there put sugar in their gravy. There is some good red lead to be had in Rochester, though. You can even buy Guglielmo’s at Wegman’s up there.

    The Nordic/Scandinavian/mixed-breed-white-trash-with-money women up there are hotter than the Greek/Italians. Something in the water keeps almost all of them from having zits.

  69. Bystander, you weren’t incarcerated at Clarkson or St Lawrence, were you?

    Even worse, Hamilton or Colgate?

  70. bystander (63)-

    Imagine that nasal, semi-Canuck accent they all have could drive you to homicide after a long winter or two together.

    “Still I can’t imagine driving to the in laws in mid winter or eating Ragu for dinner though”

  71. Fast Eddie says:

    Caddyshack, how can I forget!

  72. It occurs that ‘something in the water’ is probably radioactive isotopes.

    GE- we bring good things to life…

    “Something in the water keeps almost all of them from having zits.”

  73. leftwing says:

    “The Nordic/Scandinavian/mixed-breed-white-trash-with-money women up there are hotter than the Greek/Italians”

    Had one of each freshman year, cashiers at the dining hall. Brunette was thin and busty, TOAST for you guys (won’t clear filter). Father had a fully restored ’57 Thunderbird convertible (before Ford began making modern knockoffs). She’d pop it out of her dad’s garage and we’d tool around campus. She sh1t a brick one day when we nearly pulled up behind her father’s truck. She started showing up in her townie boyfriend’s pickup after. One day she reaches in his glove compartment for something and I see his handgun sitting there. Last time I saw her.

    Blonde was certifiably crazy.

  74. leftwing says:

    Hung with tri-delts thereafter……

  75. Fast Eddie says:

    leftwing [76],

    Sounds like a JJ adventure. I miss the lad’s stories (sniff… sniff… as a tear rolls down thy cheek).

  76. Juice Box says:

    Down by me they are turning a few old empty office parks around.

    bell Works in Holmdel.

    https://twitter.com/BellWorksNJ?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

  77. Juice Box says:

    And right by my house off exit 114, old office park now becoming a cancer treatment center.

    Memorial Sloan Kettering Monmouth

    https://www.mskcc.org/locations/msk-monmouth

  78. Essex says:

    I dated a very cute girl from Syracuse….she was LOUD as hell….though.

  79. Bystander says:

    “You weren’t incarcerated at Clarkson or St Lawrence, were you?

    Even worse, Hamilton or Colgate?”

    Hah, no but I hear that those schools were thinking of joining Ivy league or so their grads keep telling me. In reality I spent a little over 3 years there taking grad courses at Cuse. Took classes for several years then met a local girl. It took another year to decide to move on from that one. She was great but I transferred my credits out and moved on with life. There was nothing up there and she wanted to stay near her family. I think there is something in that radioactive lake that acts like a bug light to the locals. They truly believe that a day out at Carousel mall is exciting and well spent.

  80. Juice Box says:

    re: # 82 – You mean the The 6th largest shopping mall in the USA? That is close to all of the attractions? You can buy a family of four day pass now and see all of the attractions for only $48 dollars. You even get a take home souvenir cup at Margaritaville .

    http://destinyusa.myshopify.com/products/winter-fun-day-pass-adult

  81. Bystander says:

    Left,

    They are all bat $hit crazy. I just prefer one that does not think the NY State fair is cultural, world class event.

  82. Bystander says:

    Juice,

    I read something about it a few years back. Heard funding was shut down for years but that Congel guy is pretty determined and connected. Nothing says class like a Toby Keith restaurant. I could not believe the amount of malls in that area for what..a couple hundred thousand people? The snow freezes their brains and they think another mall is a good idea. I briefly worked at Camillus mall in ’96. What a parade for the use of cond0ms.

  83. leftwing says:

    “They are all bat $hit crazy. I just prefer one that does not think the NY State fair is cultural, world class event”

    Goodness, there are some hot ones though.

    Went to visit a buddy at school and he took me to a ‘strip club’ on Main St in Oneonta. Once you got past the flannel shirt – not joking – there is something about all that cow tipping that keeps them in fine shape…..

  84. D-FENS says:

    Add a Pizza joint or burger place in there and we’d be rich.

    Splat What Was He Thinking says:
    January 7, 2016 at 12:57 pm
    dfens (20)-

    I say turn them into grow houses and br0thels.

  85. Bystander says:

    Speaking of malls, tip to one of most nostalgic websites on the internet.

    http://www.deadmalls.con

  86. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Let those traitors leave. The usa is in the best position of any economy in the world. Demographics are right. All the excess fat has been totally cut from the U.S. economy, there is literally almost nothing else to cut. She is primed and ready to go. Leaving this economy is a stupid decision. I say let the traitors leave, more for the “true americans” who stand by their country and the freedoms it provides. It’s like marriage, through good and bad, you stick it out. You don’t make your money during the good times and then act like a little bitc! during the bad times, and get up and leave. I would love to smack these greedy bitc!es around.

    “Take the discussions on the merits of living in various US states – NJ v NC for example – and expand that to be US v another developed country.

    If your current US State isn’t working for you and you are willing to locate to another, why should there be an emotional bar on considering a similar national v international evaluation?

    The color of one’s passport is becoming much less relevant.”

  87. leftwing says:

    Pumps right on cue unwittingly proving paragraph 2 in the quote.

    Everything works until it doesn’t, brother.

  88. The Great Pumpkin says:

    90- Sure, so they are basically parasites. Sucking a country dry by taking the capital during the good times and then taking off during the bad times. Parasites! There is an allegiance to the land that made you rich. Without it, you are a PARASITE.

  89. The Great Pumpkin says:

    90- Sure, so they are basically parasites. Sucking a country dry by taking the capital during the good times and then taking off during the bad times. Parasites! There is an allegiance to the land that made you rich. Without it, you are a PARASITE.

  90. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And lefty, America is not going down yet. People said the same thing during the 30’s, then during the 40’s, then during the 60’s, then during the 70’s, then during the 80’s, then during the 2000’s. Hasn’t happened yet.

  91. The Great Pumpkin says:

    America’s position is too strong, Tell me what other economy is in a better position than the U.S? Not going to find one. We have a wealth of resources from human capital to vast natural resources, We also have the military position that says checkmate (till at least 2050, and with china’s problems I should even extend it, because no one will touch us when it comes to the military).

  92. Juice Box says:

    Pumps you should check out the new treaty Flores by the O admin.

  93. leftwing says:

    92-94

    The parasites are the ones sucking people who produce so dry that they (or the corporations they control) are better off outside the country. Not vice versa.

    Also, ‘the land’ did not make me rich. I made the land richer.

    I’m not saying the US is going down in flames. I’m saying the clear competitive advantage (personal or corporate) that the US had for the better part of a century has diminished, if not disappeared. While by definition personal, if I evaluate the US according to my criteria I could find several countries in which I would have ‘parity’ with the US.

    When I factor in that I abhor the direction of this country and that my resources are being used to further that direction, from a guttural and emotional perspective an exit would prevail.

    The US is like those upstate girls we have been discussing. Prettiest one at the NYS Fairgrounds getting all the guys. Now that the college girls are back she’s not the only game in town any more and has to work at it. Problem is, neither one knows how.

  94. chicagofinance says:

    I start with salt mines and then the threads devolves into this? WTF happened? I thought ^^^ was all milk and cookies girls?

    leftwing says:
    January 7, 2016 at 2:26 pm
    Hung with tri-delts thereafter……

  95. chicagofinance says:

    You and Obama…..

    Fast Eddie says:
    January 7, 2016 at 2:28 pm
    leftwing [76],

    Sounds like a JJ adventure. I miss the lad’s stories (sniff… sniff… as a tear rolls down thy cheek).

  96. Fabius Maximus says:

    #14 TinPot
    So lets recap. You post a fallacious argument and two posts later accuse Otto of doing the same thing. I point it out and you say that I keep using the phrase and I don’t understand the meaning. When it shows up that you don’t actually understand it, I get called as nitpicking for pointing that out. Mkay!
    First off, a 10second search on Google shows you as the only person using the phrase. https://njrereport.com/index.php/2013/05/10/only-up-from-here-or-bubble-beware/
    Not all logical fallacies are Rhetorical. Here is the difference. With Post Hoc and C _ m Hoc you are dealing with a closed scope. It either is or it isn’t, there is no interpretation. In contract law, to bring it into you world, “after that” and “with that” mean the scope is tightly defined. If I introduce probability, “If that” then the scope opens and only then does it cross over to the rhetoric side. The action may or may not have happened. There is a whole branch of mathematics that deals with this.
    Ad Hominem, I could be pedantic and ask which one? There are actually two. When it comes to you, yes. I will call you Eddie Ray, he gave out tax advice and got his client sent to jail. You have posted tax advice (I recall High network individuals and Canadian Residency) in here that can get you sent to jail. I’ll call it a fair comparison.
    Now you attack me and call me a tax cheat (libelous) based on a comment I made to you where I said I had a year where I did not pay tax. I further clarified that i was not resident in a country long enough to pay tax and I had an 18 month audit where the government agreed I was not resident.
    As to you, well here’s my thoughts on lessor. I draw a line where I say a person’s spouse and kids are off limits. I have never made any comments against your wife and kids, while you readily attack mine and yes I think less of you because of it.
    Not that I have to address it, but whydo I post so late at night? I have a full time job where I can’t goof off posting here all day and I spend the evenings with my family. This is my only real downtime with everyone in bed.

  97. Fabius Maximus says:

    Lib
    RPI 94% scholarship. I have to dream!

    http://www.scholarshipstats.com/hockey.html

  98. Fabius Maximus says:

    Grim,

    Post to lib in mod, can you clear it?

  99. D-FENS says:

    There seems to be a pattern here.

    DC’s minimum wage law is having a devastating effect on the city’s restaurant employment aei.org/publication/ea…

  100. Comrade Nom Deplume and His Amazing Trick Back says:

    [100] self-righteous, prawn-sucker.

    You are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts. Sad that you devoted so much time to rebutting me only to hang your premises on shoddy interpretations of the comments of yours and others. This started where you tried to identify a logical (can we agree on that?) fallacy where one hadn’t been intended or used and I called you on it. Maybe God can make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear but I fail to see where you did. And going to wikipedia for some instant erudition doesn’t save you; you still are trying to shoehorn my rejoinder to your doltish fellow traveler’s comment into a construct that didn’t exist. I’m not responsible for your misinterpretations. Perhaps if it were in Gaelic. . . .

    As for libel, you clearly don’t understand the legal context. And you misrepresent your own argument insofar as you informed me that the reason you beat the IRS is that the statute of limitations had expired on a position you yourself categorized as “aggressive.” But since we are imposing your optics, you are the libelous one since I never gave anyone here tax advice–Review Circular 230 and tell me who I advised. General rantings on tax policy aren’t “legal advice” and I disclaim where I feel necessary. As for attacks on wife and kids, denied. Prove me wrong. Besides, I don’t know your kids and I happen to have thought highly of your wife the one time I met her (no matter how odd her tastes. BTW, I am insulting you right now, not her).

    As for ad hominem, I have so little regard for you and your opinions that I plan to use it liberally if for no other reason than it pleases me to do so. If you are offended by that, good.

    I recall that you were concerned (unjustifiably) before our first meeting that I was going to beat the crap out of you. But you are easily the most sanctimonious narcissist I’ve ever dealt with and, should we meet again, I may just have to beat the snot out of you on principle. Unlike you, I don’t profess to be above base human foibles.

  101. Fabius Maximus says:

    #105 Tin Pot
    Yes I am are entitled to my own opinion, and not my own facts as are you.
    Yes we agree it is logical.
    We disagree on the sidebar that post hoc is rhetorical
    I will accept that you did not intend the statement to be fallacious.
    We disagree that the statements are a fallacy.
    As for attacks on my wife and kids, scroll up to post 19, should I’ll be sure to pass on your comments to my daughter.
    I have never been worried about you beating me up. As I recall that discussion started from comments you made about going to Trenton to “bust a few heads on CCs behalf”. I said there is no way that you would, and its the same reason you would not hit me in a bar. There is no way you would ever roll the dice on losing your bar membership.
    At the next GTG I will assume we will have a cordial conversation and agree on very little.

  102. Fabius Maximus says:

    #105 Redux

    Note also that I told you this was down to residency in multiple countries. There was nothing aggressive in it and there is no Statue of limitations. I spent a period of time where I was not resident in any country long enough to be taxed. The IRS were not involved as it was before I came over here. You keep making assumptions.

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