New homes were never cheap

From CNBC:

As housing affordability weakens, more buyers are left out in the cold

The cost of housing is rising at a fast clip, and nowhere is it more apparent than in the market for newly built homes.

Sales there are rising, but only on the higher end, and that is leaving the majority of entry-level buyers out of luck and out of homeownership because there are so few cheaper, existing homes for sale. While homebuilders claim they are trying to target the high demand from entry-level buyers, the numbers simply don’t show that.

More affordable homes, those priced under $200,000, made up 44 percent of the market in 2010. Today, they are just 16 percent of new, for-sale construction, according to research by California-based John Burns Real Estate Consulting.

During the same period, the share of newly built homes priced between $200,000 and $400,000 has grown to 55 percent from 43 percent. Going even further up the price scale, the share of new homes priced above $400,000 has more than doubled to 29 percent of the market from 13 percent.

While sales of newly built homes currently stand about 9 percent higher than they were a year ago, according to the U.S. Census, they remain well below historical norms, as does new construction of single-family homes.

Big builders like D.R. Horton, LGI Homes and Lennar do offer low-priced products, but the vast majority of builders are still concentrating on the move-up market. While they might like to offer cheaper homes, they say the current market conditions don’t allow for that.

“Rising material prices, particularly lumber, along with chronic shortages of buildable lots and skilled labor are putting upward pressure on home prices and impeding a more robust housing recovery,” said Granger MacDonald, chairman of the National Association of Home Builders and a developer from Kerrville, Texas.

This entry was posted in Demographics, Economics, National Real Estate, New Development. Bookmark the permalink.

89 Responses to New homes were never cheap

  1. 3b says:

    First!!

  2. 3b says:

    Pumps from yesterday. Rutherford is 2stops to Hoboken. Easy commute to NYC. Plus it has a downtown and lots of 2 family houses so you have rental income. It has that whole urban feel that millenials want. Wayne meets none of that criteria. Neither does my town by the way with the exception the commute is better than Wayne.

  3. grim says:

    I’ve been a fan of Rutherford since day 1, you can go back through all my posts, I’ve been talking it up forever.

    Beautiful historic housing stock (ala Montclair/GR) – Check
    Big tree lined streets – Check
    Train Station/Access to NYC – Check
    Good Schools – Check
    Quaint Downtown with good Restaurants – Check
    Nereid Boat Club – Check
    Across the river from a distillery – Check

    The condos/apartments near the train station – I suspect we’ll see Rutherford grow larger multifamily developments near the station, attracting a younger demographic. At the same time there are some beautiful old colonials that attract the bigger wallet types.

    They need a Starbucks and a Trader Joes, and it’s all set.

  4. 3b says:

    Grim the trader Joes and Starbucks will eventually be there. It really is a nice little town. A real town. The schools are good. And that’s all you need. They don’t have the reputation of the haughty northern Bergen schools like northern valley Ridgewood and river dell etc but that’s a bunch of nonsense in my mind. How pumps put Rutherford together with Waynw or my town is beyond me.

  5. D-FENS says:

    800/900 thousand here we come. Phil Murphy will MAKE NEW JERSEY GREAT AGAIN!

  6. D-FENS says:

    Exclusive: Murphy Plans to Raise $1.3 Billion in Taxes
    Tax hikes for millionaires, hedge fund managers, large corporations and pot smokers anchor Democrat’s plan.

    http://observer.com/2017/08/exclusive-murphy-plans-to-raise-1-3-billion-in-taxes/

  7. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You are blind. You just don’t get it. You are still busy writing off northeast nj, instead of seeing the buying opportunities it presents.

    3b says:
    August 18, 2017 at 9:47 am
    Grim the trader Joes and Starbucks will eventually be there. It really is a nice little town. A real town. The schools are good. And that’s all you need. They don’t have the reputation of the haughty northern Bergen schools like northern valley Ridgewood and river dell etc but that’s a bunch of nonsense in my mind. How pumps put Rutherford together with Waynw or my town is beyond me.

  8. 3b says:

    Pumps: You are the only one that’s blind. I did not write off northeast Jersey. They the politicians and clueless residents did. There are parts of northeast Jersey that will do well as long as NYC does well. You are the delusional one with your 800/900 house comment. You than take Rutherford and manage to tie it into Wayne. It always comes back to you and your house in Wayne.

  9. grim says:

    Wayne is a different beast, if you want to compare it to something, Paramus is the closer local comparison. Both large towns, major transit intersections, and largely funded by major retail corridors and corp complexes. You could probably argue to add Parsippany to this mix, to create a trifecta.

    There are a few towns that have the luxury of being able to benefit from the large-scale retail tenancies. Most towns that shunned retail for big corporate and office complexes are paying the price for that, and to redevelop as a solution, they are just adding more housing units, which further strains finances.

    Really though, we’re all interrelated, so it probably doesn’t matter all that much.

    I like it up here, I’d recommend it to anybody. There were a good set of $600-700k sales in my neighborhood that are starting to really stand out from the previous glut of $450k sales.

    Lots of new families moving in, more new kids in the neighborhood now than when I moved in, which I think is pretty positive and bucking the trend.

  10. The Great Pumpkin says:

    3b, passaic park real estate is on fire for god’s sake, and guess where every single one of those buyers are coming from with mouths wide open because they see it as a complete value in comparison to Brooklyn. You just don’t get it, northeast nj is going to see dramatic price increases in its real estate. How long do you actually think these prices will remain stagnate in an environment of low inventory for real estate in good locations across the nation? The demand is only getting stronger and the supply will not be fixed anytime soon or if ever. There is only so much available land in lucrative locations. Stop ignoring this and thinking prices are doomed for locations like wayne that are only 20 miles from NYC.

  11. grim says:

    Wayne does have 2 train stations by the way.

    It’s just that the bus is faster if you are headed to midtown, direct, express, no stops.

  12. joyce says:

    Fey also talked about the nine national supremacist rallies that were planned for cities across the U.S. in the wake of the last week’s attack, one of which is scheduled to take place in New York City.

    “Part of me hopes these neo-Nazis do try it in New York City, like I hope they try it and get the ham salad kicked out of them by a bunch of drag queens,” Fey said. “Cuz you know what a drag queen still is? A six-foot-four black man.”

    ….encouraging violence

  13. joyce says:

    Fey’s final piece of advice?

    “Treat these rallies like the opening of a thoughtful movie with two female leads — don’t show up,” Fey said. “Let these morons scream into the empty air. ”

    …and then good advice. I guess she was just joking at first.

  14. grim says:

    The three neo nazis that live in NYC will be pretty lonely.

  15. joyce says:

    “We’re working with our learning and development office to do online training with all of our FHP supervisors to ensure they know what Florida law is,” Rhodes said.

    [glad they’re finally doing that]

    “That was not for citations,” Spaulding said. “That was for overall monthly performance.”

    [potato potato]

    http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/stateroundup/the-fhp-trooper-behind-quota-on-speeding-tickets-will-resign-sept-5/2334092

  16. D-FENS says:

    did you see the video I posted this morning on the bottom of the previous thread? It shows the cops literally standing right there as the two groups beat each other senseless.

    joyce says:
    August 18, 2017 at 10:30 am
    Fey also talked about the nine national supremacist rallies that were planned for cities across the U.S. in the wake of the last week’s attack, one of which is scheduled to take place in New York City.

    “Part of me hopes these neo-Nazis do try it in New York City, like I hope they try it and get the ham salad kicked out of them by a bunch of drag queens,” Fey said. “Cuz you know what a drag queen still is? A six-foot-four black man.”

    ….encouraging violence

  17. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Wayne does have an easy commute to the flood plain.

    You are blind. You just don’t get it. You are still busy writing off northeast nj, instead of seeing the buying opportunities it presents.

  18. 3b says:

    Grim I would agree with your comparison Wayne vs Paramus. As for retail that might not be worth all it was in the past with all the retailers struggling.

  19. 3b says:

    Pumps. Scarcity of land blah blah just build higher like so many places are doing. If you believe it’s all up and away and prices will keep rising and millions more wil pour in sucking up everything from Rutherford to Wayne and beyond than you are delusional. And when it all collapses at some point than what?

  20. homeboken says:

    Been quite for a while so maybe this has been discussed –

    What are the boards thoughts on the (very likely) legalization of marijuan in NJ? The legalization is guaranteed with a Murphy win.

    I just read the full bill over the weekend and the only complain I have is the initial tax on the sale is surprising low. Granted it steps up quickly over time but I am curious why? There will be zero impact on the demand of the product right from the start, so why not take advantage of that demand and maximize the tax revenue straight away?

    Interested to hear others thoughts.

  21. abeiz says:

    Sorry, tuned out yesterday and didn’t see my post picked up until this morning.

    The house is literally three blocks to the train station and up against the tracks across the street.

    I can understand purchasing a 115 year old house @ 200K with the intention of doing extensive renovation. I just don’t see doing the same at nearly 500K. I certainly don’t see job salaries at the other end of that train increasing by 100%, therefore something else in this equation has to give (free cash flow, improvements)

    I was always shocked by the hovels normal working people go back to at the end of their glorious workdays in Manhattan. Yes, it’s close to the train, yes the monthly nut is around 2K but FFS, it’s a 115 year old house.

  22. ex-Jersey says:

    12:13 Smoke em if you got em.

  23. JJ fanboy says:

    Bannon is out

  24. D-FENS says:

    Weed isn’t legal? Whoops my bad.

  25. JCer says:

    Murphy’s plan is suspect. Let me reiterate that the big money is mostly not made in NJ. Creating such an onerous millionaires tax just hurts asset prices(taxes will be figured into prices for commercial real estate and businesses) and makes the state less attractive for rich people who spend money and support the economy. The taxpayer at that level isn’t like you or me they are mobile and can avoid the tax, making it foolish. We need to be concerned about regional competitiveness with NY, CT, and PA. The only smart thing is the legalization of weed, lets get the tax dollars flowing because once every other state allows it, we’ll lose that revenue stream.

    Murphy a. looks like your creepy uncle b. wants to raise over a billion in taxes c. wants to spend that billion 5-10 times over. Can someone tell me how the morons that live in this state can elect such an idiot?

  26. D-FENS says:

    Trump voters react to his statements after violence in Charlottesville
    CBS Evening News

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkpK8ga4K_g

  27. D-FENS says:

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    President Trump’s ardent backers support him more than ever
    https://apnews.com/fd83c1dccd854b839c7fdfda97b8fcbc

  28. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @chrislhayes

    It’s not the people around Trump; it’s Trump.

  29. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @KeithOlbermann

    Bannon gone. Now to force Trump to get rid of the real racist/fascist/destroyer in the administration: Trump.

  30. Fast Eddie says:

    See, the problem is, liberals or leftists are topical. They have no depth or as much depth as a paper cut. It’s the reason they’re angry and harbor resentment in the first place. It’s a mental scourge. They can’t follow through because they don’t know the end game. There is no end game. The end game is the desire to have a purpose, to be recognized but when you’re a mental midget, how much can one placate an imbecile?

    Children lash out because they don’t have an answer. They’re children. They want to fight for a cause but they have no fight in the cause because there is none. Today it’s a monument or a statue, next week will be whatever the left decides is a new target. Look at the ones supporting the left and how they communicate on this forum. They’re like the walking dead.

  31. Fast Eddie says:

    puzzy,

    We’ve known for a long time who you are. You can stop the charade, now.

  32. ex-Jersey says:

    2:50 you just described the child in Chief eddie.

  33. Fast Eddie says:

    Rue the day if and when an enemy invades our country because they liberal leftists will be the first to retreat leaving courageous souls to do battle. I’d fight for nothing more than the guilt of leaving the true heroines and heros to fight by themselves. I’ll muster whatever courage I can from them. They’re much braver than I am. The leftist losers will attempt to join the victory celebration because they feel no guilt. That’s the definition of a liberal. It’s like throwing a life preserver to a drowning victim when it’s tied to nothing. They’re cowards and deep down inside, they know it.

  34. Phoenix says:

    First to retreat?
    I guess if one never shows up, then technically they did not “retreat.”

    Funny thing is the real hero, McCain, was mocked by someone who did not go there himself. Mc Cain a Republican. A veteran.
    JFK, also a veteran, A Democrat. John Kerry, Democrat, Veteran.

    So it appears both Democrats and Republicans can both be Veterans.
    It is not about R vs D after all is it..

    “Donald Trump’s Draft Deferments: Four for College, One for Bad Feet”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/02/us/politics/donald-trump-draft-record.html?mcubz=1

  35. Phoenix says:

    What would be interesting to know (which is not in this video) is what policies of Trump are affecting these women. Do they own businesses that his policies would help them directly? Way too many questions unanswered. Only 3 people so not a true representation of the class listed.

    Money > Race. Every time. Follow the money….

    Trump voters react to his statements after violence in Charlottesville
    CBS Evening News

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkpK8ga4K_g

  36. Bagholder says:

    “Funny thing is the real hero, McCain, was mocked by someone who did not go there himself. Mc Cain a Republican. A veteran.
    JFK, also a veteran, A Democrat. John Kerry, Democrat, Veteran.

    “Donald Trump’s Draft Deferments: Four for College, One for Bad Feet””

    You’re listing facts. We’re in a post-fact world now.

  37. Fast Eddie says:

    You mean the same John Kerry who received three phony Purple Heart medals after lying and exaggerating about his brief combat duty in Vietnam?

    And JFK? He would have been a Republican today.

  38. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Watch out CNN.

    Stephen Bannon said in his first public remarks since his ouster from White House role as chief strategist that he will be “going to war” for President Donald Trump, warning that he will continue to press the populist cause against the political and corporate establishment.

    “If there’s any confusion out there, let me clear it up: I’m leaving the White House and going to war for Trump against his opponents — on Capitol Hill, in the media, and in corporate America,”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-18/bannon-says-he-s-going-to-war-for-trump-after-white-house-exit

  39. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    What was Clinton’s rank and branch of service? I forget.

    Hahahahahahahahahahaha

    That’s the great thing about the Clintons. Take any criticism of Trump and one or both of them has already done something in that same arena a full order of magnitude worse.

    First to retreat?
    I guess if one never shows up, then technically they did not “retreat.”

    Funny thing is the real hero, McCain, was mocked by someone who did not go there himself. Mc Cain a Republican. A veteran.
    JFK, also a veteran, A Democrat. John Kerry, Democrat, Veteran.

  40. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Trump University – Laureate University
    Access Hollywood – Jesus, take your pick
    Trump Foundation – Clinton Foundation
    Russia – RUSSIA! (uranium, speeches, Clinton Crime Family foundation)

    Hurt someone’s feelings – Had people murdered

  41. Yo! says:

    Homeboken, this state’s government will spend more money implementing and administering the tax than it receives in tax revenue.

    Now to the real estate impact – New Jersey has more than enough warehouse space to accommodate the growing and distribution operations. In Denver, a small warehouse market, demand from growers and their suppliers (lighting, HVAC contractors) has been strong enough to drive down the warehouse vacancy rate, making it difficult for other businesses to find warehouse space while pushing up rents for everyone.

    If I owned warehouses, I wouldn’t lease space to these operations. I know a guy who owns warehouses in Santa Ana, Cal., and leases space to dealers. Rent is paid in cash and banks won’t lend against his buildings. Because of the cash sloshing around in his buildings, they are robbery targets. And the business people behind these venture aren’t the gray ponytail crowd; they are Mexican gangsters. To put it mildly, when the rent isn’t paid, he is worried the dispute resolution process. More likely to involve guns and credible decapitation threats than lawyers and court filings.

    If anybody here is looking to buy warehouses in Santa Ana, please let me know. I’ll put you in touch with a motivated seller.

  42. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Not fit to serve – not fit to stand

  43. Fabius Maximus says:

    Funny point here is, how many would take Bill back as President in a heartbeat.
    Its not about O or the Clintons. These days it all about Donnie. And he is not looking that good these days. Yes some will still love him, but that percentage is shrinking.

  44. ex-Jersey says:

    Donnie will leave his term in office with sub 20% approval rating.
    Plus Melania hasn’t let the old coot near her in years.

  45. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    mass hysteria

  46. Grim says:

    Bill was a great president.

  47. ex-Jersey says:

    Agreed Grim. The neo-cons that post here make me laugh. So much stupidity.

  48. Juice Box says:

    Hey now no laughter allowed!

    Really neo-con? Did you just assume our political beliefs? Just like you are gender nonconforming we are politically nonconforming so make no assumptions.

  49. Phoenix says:

    Bill Clinton removed Glass-Steagall. Signed NAFTA.

  50. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Was reading over the Murphy article D posted and the plan seems fair. The millionaire tax is on any income over 1 million. If you are worrying about 10.75% tax making that kind of money, you are just straight up greedy and better off leaving this state. Come on, if you are making a million or more dollars a year, you can throw a 10.75% bone to help the people of your state from that huge piece of meat you just received. At those income levels, saying you have to have it all and can’t give a little back is just greedy. And don’t use the excuse that the money will be stolen through corruption and misspent, that’s just a lame excuse to not want to help pay the costs of society.

    His plan leaves the state sales tax in place and also leaves the estate tax in place. The plan is fair. He doesn’t hurt the avg working citizen too much, and asks the people who can afford to help (millionaires) to step up and help. It’s also a very good step in the right direction with govt putting on their grown up pants and taking a responsible approach to fixing the state’s finances. It’s not easy, but at least he has the balls to try and fix it without hurting any individual group too much (a 10% income tax on income over a million is not much, how much money do you really need…seriously?).

    “Under the most recent version of that plan, the marginal tax rate on income above $1 million would rise from 8.97 percent to 10.75 percent.”

  51. ex-Jersey says:

    8:15…. my gender is male. And I’m pretty sure you’d mind your manners if we were face to face.

  52. ex-Jersey says:

    I’ve read enough stupidity over the years from the posters here to determine the political rhetoric here is pure drivel. Toxic, stupid drivel. Good luck with the retard you elected.

  53. Pr0udL1beral says:

    Fast Eddie – you have depth? LMFAO

  54. ex-Jersey says:

    When I was 15 I walked into Nazi HQ in Skokie IL – I asked the two guys there what they believed in and they said the blacks are the muscle behind the Hebrew $$$ at which time I
    Said what if I told you I was Jewish? You should have seen their faces. Yet there I was standing in there HQ daring them to do something. Why? Because I’m crazier and meaner than either of those two pencil necks there that day. I literally love confrontation. I hate bigots.

  55. ex-Jersey says:

    P.S. My pops trained me to box in the 2nd grade. I’ve never actually started a fight (other than inciting or baiting a few as$holes) but I have surprised the hell out of a number of bullies throughout my life. There is nothing more satisfying than the look on a guys face who has just called you something horrible and he’s shocked by the five punches that just landed on his face in seconds. Note: I was suspended from school once every single year for this type of thing. It’s a wonder I didn’t end up in jail.

  56. The Great Pumpkin says:

    What happened? Why didn’t they just stick to the damn infrastructure plan and trade deals? How did this go from economics to race?

    Goes to show you the power of the “race card” in this country. Lesson here, if you are a white male, never ever bring up race if you are a politician looking to get stuff done, it will end badly.

    “Days after Trump’s election, a giddy Bannon told the Hollywood Reporter that he was an “economic nationalist,” and then went on to explain what he meant:

    “The globalists gutted the American working class and created a middle class in Asia … If we deliver … we’ll get 60 percent of the white vote, and 40 percent of the black and Hispanic vote and we’ll govern for 50 years … Like [Andrew] Jackson’s populism, we’re going to build an entirely new political movement. It’s everything related to jobs. The conservatives are going to go crazy. I’m the guy pushing a trillion-dollar infrastructure plan … It will be as exciting as the 1930s, greater than the Reagan revolution — conservatives, plus populists, in an economic nationalist movement.””

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/18/why-bannon-lost-globalists-won-215506?cmpid=sf

  57. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You have to remember the status quo currently at play in this country…..until proven otherwise, it’s assumed a white male is racist in this country, and it doesn’t look like it’s going to change anytime soon. That’s what’s sad here, white males have to walk around this country with people automatically assuming they are a racist simply because they are white. Talk about ironic. Something has to give, this can’t keep up.

  58. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Seems like it’s a combination of genetics and upbringing. Catch here, genetics means the parents most likely have it in them too, hence, increasing the odds their child will become evil because of the parents genetic inability to parent with the same empathy as normal parents

    “If the empathy deficit at the core of psychopathic behaviors can be traced all the way back to toddlerhood, does evil reside in the genes, coiled up like a serpent in the DNA, waiting to strike?
    The answer isn’t a categorical yes or no. As it is with many illnesses, both nature and nurture have a hand in shaping the psychopath. Studies of twins have established that callous–unemotional traits in many young children and adolescents are inherited from parents, confirming a strong genetic component. Yet in a study of nearly 600 children born to parents with a history of antisocial behaviors, researchers found that the kids who were raised by adoptive families that provided a warm and nurturing environment were far less likely to exhibit callous traits than were those brought up by their biological parents.
    Children born with a lack of empathy, says Essi Viding, a psychologist at University College London, often are unable to get a break. “You can imagine that if you have a child who doesn’t show affection in the same way as a typically developing child, and doesn’t show empathy, that child will evoke very different reactions in the people around—the parents, the teachers, the peers—than a child who’s more empathetic,” she says. “And many of these children, of course, reside within their biological families, so they often have this double whammy of having parents who are perhaps less well equipped to parent, less good at empathizing maybe, less good at regulating their own emotions.”

    What Science Tells Us About Good and Evil- National Geographic
    https://apple.news/AXvbFDn5YSBWbdfGmAdTDQw

  59. Fabius Maximus says:

    I went to a weird wedding in Skokie IL.
    She was high end tribe from Skokie, he was dirt poor South Side. Bride and her mother fought over everything. We didn’t get an invite asking for a choice of entree, the mother decided that everyone would get all, so we had a five star plate of Filet Mignon, chicken roulade and fish, it was fabulous.
    The grooms side were all recovering alcoholics on the 12 steps, but they were the life and soul of the reception.
    Mrs Fabs contribution was to get the bride to convince her mother to ditch the high end restaurant for the rehearsal dinner. They went with the back room of Lou Malnati’s for an endless supply of pizza, wings and pitchers of beer for the wedding party and the big contingent coming in from Jersey. In some ways it was better than the wedding!

  60. ex-Jersey says:

    Lived in Chicago from 1994-2000 great food, neat neighborhoods, lots of violence – cold as Hell.

  61. No One says:

    Pumptard.
    NJ residents are already paying 9% to the state on income. They would also be paying about 39% in federal taxes.
    Why should others get half of what anyone makes?
    You talk about this 2% hike as if these people weren’t already paying massive taxes.
    I wish Murphy would raise it to 20% as this would finally motivate my entire company to relocate out of NJ.

  62. The Great Pumpkin says:

    No one,

    The system was never built on the premise of individuals keeping it all. Be careful what you ask for, if you were allowed to keep it all, the system ( aka society) would collapse almost instantly. Even if you survive the collapse, you will be forced to pay individually for everything your taxes paid for collectively. Much cheaper to pay collectively as opposed to individually, hence, why society is run through a tax based system, but this clearly flies over your head.

    How much money would you have left over after paying for these costs individually as opposed to collectively. What will it cost to provide the roads for your business? For the security? For the jail? For the fire truck? For the firemen? For the sewage waste? For the education of your workers? For the ambulance and first responders?

    Quit being greedy and crying about not being able to keep every dollar. Stop acting like the taxes are a form of robbery when you USE THESE SERVICES PROVIDED THROUGH TAXES. Even if they take 50% of your earning on a million, 500,000 a year isn’t enough for you? You have to cry about it? Open up your eyes and stop being so selfish. Greed is one of the 7 deadly sins for a reason.

  63. grim says:

    Nobody has a problem with paying taxes, or paying into the collective purchasing scheme as you call it.

    The issue is that those who hold NJ’s purse strings are not held to any semblance of a standard of fiscal responsibility, nor can they be trusted as fiduciaries of the trust.

    It’s one thing to spend and invest those tax collections prudently, it’s another to allow for wholesale mismanagement and graft.

    The problem is, nothing in the current political system holds those who make those decisions accountable for the success and failure of their spending.

    Generally, those in the private sector who have spent any time managing the finances of an enterprise look at the way public spending works and are generally in horror. There is zero accountability, there is zero responsibility, and there is zero control over maintaining a budget. When all you need to do is magically wave the wand to raise your revenues, nobody is forced to spend time really considering spending decisions. Hell, politicians and public sector workers who OUTRIGHT STEAL from us are rarely prosecuted and made to pay this back.

    Why do you keep arguing that we are opposed to paying taxes? Drop your greedy straw man argument.

  64. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Grim, you give too much credit to the private sector. They are no different than the public sector when it comes to failures.

    How many businesses fail every year? In this context, how can you say private does it better than public? How many corporations rob investors through schemes? How much capital is wasted on corruption in the private sector? These are the real thieves that hide behind closed doors. How many no show jobs take place in the private sector? That isn’t robbing you? How is that any different from govt, yet people ignore this on the false premise they don’t somehow indirectly pay for this? It’s all a part of the same economic system, understand this. When one robs, it robs from someone in that economic system. It doesn’t matter public or private, someone is being robbed

    Nothing is perfect. Expecting perfection from a very complex institution like the govt is not being realistic. Why people expect perfection when it comes to govt is beyond me. Govt or private sector is run by human beings, therefore are imperfect.

    “Generally, those in the private sector who have spent any time managing the finances of an enterprise look at the way public spending works and are generally in horror”

  65. The Great Pumpkin says:

    If you can come up with a better system than the current one, I’m all ears. Hard to beat the system upon which the United States was/is built on. Look at all the achievements created from this system, but you guys are crying because it’s not perfect. Well, I ask, what is perfect?

  66. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Accountability costs money.

    If you are going to penalize them for failures, what will the reward be for success?

    “The problem is, nothing in the current political system holds those who make those decisions accountable for the success and failure of their spending.”

  67. The Great Pumpkin says:

    On the subject of accountability, how did that work out for Christie and all the others yelling for accountability from teachers? Great job, forced schools to hire how many more administrators to carry out the “accountability?” Should have just left it the way it was, parents already hold teachers accountable, yet Christie had to go after the teachers and make us now pay for this “accountability.” Like I said to No One, be careful what you ask for.

  68. Phoenix says:

    Reward for success? You keep your job, that’s your reward for success.

  69. Phoenix says:

    Pumps, the public school system is slowly being dismantled. If you can’t see that look closer.

  70. Phoenix says:

    Rich people don’t need a good public school system. They need a gated community and a great private school system. The rest is for the lower and middle class.

  71. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Parents don’t hold us accountable. They actually prefer we don’t teach and hand out As. If you don’t do that…that’s when they throw a fit.

  72. ex-Jersey says:

    Always a big supporter of the public schools. Refused to send my daughter to the local middle school as they were horrible. Poined up $40k per year, thrilled with the results.

  73. ex-Jersey says:

    Property taxes might be THE limiting factor is pumkins rising tides scenario.

  74. Phoenix says:

    BRT,
    Maybe that is because colleges look at “A’s.” This is the crap resumes are built on.

    My child went on an orphanage mission and started a campaign to save the rusty spotted mosquito. She is out to save the world. Yeah, the things you stuff a college application with.

    Bottom line is the public schools in NJ are buried in debt. The boomers and seniors (who by the way were at the helm-many even worked in these institutions) never wanted to balance the budget every year- all they did was cry like babies that their taxes were too high. They raved how their homes were rising in value, cashed out in droves when the market was hot, leaving their debt behind for the next SUCKER to pay for it.

    When the overweight lady sings, when the music stops, when the bill comes due who is going to be holding the bag (currently approximately 49B, yeah, thats BILLION). That is equivalent to 2 Trump Mexico / USA walls. Are the pensions going to be paid? Will the tax payers even be able to come up with the money or will the property be seized? What will happen to the value of the property with a lien like this?

    Time will tell….

  75. 3b says:

    Phoenix not exactly right. The boomers and gen x ers approved multiple referendums on expansion and renovations to schools at the urging of Tammy and other local realtor. Those of us who urged caution and were opposed to this reckless spending were silenced. It would be taken out on your children. Now they are complaining about the taxes and how it’s harming their value. You can’t have it both ways.

  76. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Any respectable parent would praise a teacher who makes their child earn their grades. Instead…these days they get nothing but complaints. Symptom of the times. I know exactly why the millennial generation is so entitled and it starts with awful parenting.

    That being said, I’ve been fortunate to have students of very supportive parents along the years that enabled me to survive.

  77. Stuck in Jerzy says:

    This article explains a lot of the why of what’s going on today.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-its-mind/534231/

    Moral of the story. Please make sure you push along any Boomer Locust you know fast into the 6 feet under hole. So we can get back to a rational country.

    A gen Xr.

  78. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    gen X were mostly ruined by their parents already, it was just that nobody noticed. Declining educational standards started in the late 1980’s because of the boomer parents of gen Xers because all of the Moms were pushed into working by the new requirement for two incomes to get by. This cascaded down to less oversight on their kids, less emphasis on education, more emphasis on “things” and we’ve only gotten worse from there. I went to a good public HS in NNJ, and it’s still a good school the same as the dollar is still a good currency; It’s just not as good as it once was, nor are the others (schools or currencies) as good as they once were. Grade inflation. I graduated HS in ’77 and went back to teach at my old HS in ’87. My teachers were still there and readily admitted that they could no longer cover the amount of material they were able to cover just 10 years before. They put it all on the parents. They summed it up this way:

    1. All the mothers work now, so..
    2. The kids have to get themselves to after school events, so…
    3. They cosign to get their oldest a car as soon as they can drive, so…
    4. The older kids have to have a job to help pay for the car loan and insurance, so…
    5. Paying for the car and insurance as well as the older kids getting their younger siblings and their part-time jobs all took precedence over schoolwork and homework.

    That seems like the beginning of the icy slope. Now we are to a point where families are smaller, wives have better jobs so the kids don’t need a job anymore, instead they have one of their parent’s credit cards, but they still have a car, and they’ll pay for the mandatory college education with loans.

    This bubble will break soon.

  79. ex-Jersey says:

    8:03. Totally. Yet those kids who somehow navigate this terrain and develop marketable skills? Catbird seat!

  80. The whitest guy says:

    The pension/benefits hole alone is around 100 billion.

    Read this part to see how Murphy differs little from the Corzine’s, the Florio’s, the Mangravy’s and the Whitman’s before him.

    ____

    But campaign officials acknowledge that some of those steps would be taken gradually over several fiscal years. For example, a full actuarially determined contribution to the pension system would be more than $5 billion next year, twice the $2.5 billion sent in this year. That by itself would eat up all of the $2.4 billion in new revenue in Murphy’s plan — the entire pie of new taxes, budget savings and economic growth.

    Instead, Murphy plans to continue the 10-year ramp Christie and Democrats have been following to reach full pension payments in fiscal 2023, meaning he would pay only 60 percent of the actuarially determined contribution in his first year in office, or $3 billion, if elected. That would add a more manageable $600 million or so in pension costs above the current budget.

    Fully funding schools under the SFRA would add another $1 billion in annual costs. But Murphy’s advisers said that increase most likely would be phased in over several years. Senate President Steve Sweeney (D-Gloucester) and Democratic lawmakers reached a deal with Christie this year that begins to ramp up to full funding in the SFRA over five years, and Murphy may choose to continue that schedule.

    The Democratic nominee’s campaign website carefully says a Murphy administration would be “working to expand” free preschool to all families, not to institute it right away.

  81. The Great Pumpkin says:

    It’s sad, but he has the right approach. You can’t saddle one generation with this bill, you have to spread it out.

    The whitest guy says:
    August 20, 2017 at 10:39 pm
    The pension/benefits hole alone is around 100 billion.

    Read this part to see how Murphy differs little from the Corzine’s, the Florio’s, the Mangravy’s and the Whitman’s before him.

    ____

  82. The Great Pumpkin says:

    It’s impossible to pay it off at once.

  83. The Great Pumpkin says:

    That’s why I always made the point, don’t pay attention to the big numbers, it has to be paid over a 40-50 year time period. If the bill was due tomorrow, do the sign of the cross!

    With no Cola, this will be in control in no time. Workers getting robbed beyond belief by the blind thief that goes by the name “inflation.” The one thing I will agree with, current retirees should be stoned. Robbing the youngins blind.

  84. Phoenix says:

    Pumps,
    You don’t have to stone them. Cut the pensions in half. Will do much more than COLA. If it can be done to an iron worker, why not anyone else. Are some animals more equal than others?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/get-there/wp/2017/01/27/in-unprecedented-move-pension-plan-approves-benefit-cuts-for-retired-iron-workers/?utm_term=.0b62fe14e4ac

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