An outsider gets his chance

From Politico:

Murphy defeats Guadagno to become New Jersey’s next governor

Democrat Phil Murphy, a millionaire former Goldman Sachs executive and U.S. ambassador to Germany who’s never held elective office, will succeed Republican Chris Christie as New Jersey’s governor after defeating Lt. Gov. Kim Guadagno on Tuesday.

Murphy, a progressive who grew up outside of Boston and smiled so much on the campaign trail that he was mocked for it, will bring to Trenton a sharp change in style from the combative and Jersey-born Christie, who became famous for his public fights with constituents and politicians.

Tuesday’s double-digit victory by Murphy, an unabashed liberal who supports raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour and providing free community college, means New Jersey’s government will be under full Democratic control for the first time in eight years. At the same time, it will inevitably be read as a repudiation of the deeply unpopular Christie and equally unpopular President Donald Trump.

With 99 percent of the vote counted, Murphy was leading Guadagno 56 percent to 42 percent.

He will have line-item veto power over the state’s roughly $35 billion budget and the power to name top state officials, like the attorney general, who, in many other states, are elected. But he will also confront a retirement system underfunded by billions of dollars after two decades of neglect, a deteriorating public transit system and an economy that has lagged the nation’s.

The governor-elect began his campaign with a number of pledges meant to appeal to liberal activists and public workers unions. In addition to promising free tuition at community colleges, he promised to increase protections for undocumented “dreamer” immigrants who came to the state as children and improve NJ Transit, which has been plagued by delays and outdated infrastructure.

But he’s struggled to explain how he’ll pay for his programs, promising to raise taxes by about $1.3 million — largely based on increasing the tax rates on the state’s wealthiest individuals and an anticipated $300 million in taxes sales of legalized marijuana.

The amount, however, won’t come close to covering his campaign promises.

Murphy has also floated the idea of creating a state bank modeled on the only other existing one, in North Dakota.

This entry was posted in New Jersey Real Estate, Politics, Property Taxes. Bookmark the permalink.

151 Responses to An outsider gets his chance

  1. exJersey says:

    Booooooom! Foist

  2. D-FENS says:

    One thing that will get hammered as a result of this is gun rights. I guarantee you the bills are already written.

  3. grim says:

    Good thing I have an open handgun purchasers permit. Pretty much settled on the 9mm Shield. My hand is just too big for a 43.

  4. D-FENS says:

    Good choice. Pick up some 10 round magazines for the flock while you’re there. If you’re lucky. They might not be considered “high capacity” by the time the legislature and Murphy are done.

  5. grim says:

    Good day to start targeting prospects with captive contact center seats in NJ. $15 hour is going to be very easy to compete with. There are a few choice clients that are going to be pushed over the edge by this.

    There are a couple of boutique CPG players in NJ who are going to be killed, and another telemarketing vendor in Bergen County who will no doubt move those jobs out of state.

  6. grim says:

    For those of you that hoped for a republican governor, look on the bright side, at least now we have price discovery.

  7. Fabius Maximus says:

    Bergen county and especially my part that I lovingly refer to as “Republ1can He!!” flipped Blue at the top of the ticket, to the same level as CC carried it with his post Sandy bounce. Turnout was low which was a factor. But the GOP went down the ticket for the lower positions.
    I don’t think we can tell if it was CC or Donnie. I think more CC.

  8. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    More housing markets are overvalued, and consumers feel the pain

    The steady rise in home prices is so far showing no boundaries, and that is turning up the heat on some already overheated housing markets.

    Home prices rose 7 percent nationally in September, compared with September 2016, a higher annual increase than was seen in August, according to CoreLogic, a real estate data firm.

    As a result, 48 percent of the nation’s top 50 housing markets are now considered “overvalued,” up from 46 percent in August. A market is considered overvalued when home prices are at least 10 percent higher than the long-term, sustainable level. For the top 100 markets, 36 percent were considered overvalued.

    “A strengthening economy, healthy consumer balance sheets and low mortgage interest rates are supporting the continued strong demand for residential real estate,” said Frank Martell, president and CEO of CoreLogic, in a statement.

    “While demand and home price growth is in a sweet spot, a third of metropolitan markets are overvalued and this will become more of an issue if prices continue to rise next year as we anticipate,” he said.

    Las Vegas, Denver, Los Angeles, Miami and the New York-New Jersey metropolitan area are all considered overvalued.

    By comparison, these pricey markets, Boston, San Francisco and Chicago, are considered at-value, based on long-term price sustainability. San Francisco is one of the most expensive markets in the nation, but higher incomes can support it.

  9. grim says:

    Hate for Christie
    Zero enthusiasm for Guano
    Hate for Trump
    Christie’s Beach Fiasco was a nail in the coffin for NJ republicans
    Republican tax plan creating negative feeling among NJ republicans

    Guano was clearly the wrong choice for the republican nominee. Her association with the Christie administration was a major problem for her. She could do absolutely nothing to distance herself from the Christie 2.0 attack. She might have been qualified, but she certainly didn’t have what it would take to overcome the headwinds. She had no charisma, no ability to create any kind of enthusiastic following.

    Look at the budget too, hell, Sweeney raised and spent more money defending a lesser position as a democratic incumbent (WTF). She stood no chance at raising money from national, so I don’t understand why she didn’t break from national positions, which would have been critical in NJ.

    How many Irish republicans in NJ flipped and voted for Murphy, well … because Murphy?

    Republicans would have been better off finding a moderate female CEO to run against him. This way it would have been Corzine vs Whitman.

  10. 3b says:

    Griim how many Irish flipped and voted for Murphy well because Murphy? That is presumptuous on your part. How many Italians voted for Kim g because she is Italian? Is this how it goes now?

  11. D-FENS says:

    The rest of my Irish relatives have all left the state already. My brother and I are the only dummys left. My uncle, who owns property in NJ and FL will likely be spending more time in FL now.

  12. D-FENS says:

    BTW, Murphy is no outsider. He is a friend of Corzine and many of Corzine’s proposals were Murphy’s idea.

  13. D-FENS says:

    Guadagno likely would have lost no matter what. It fits the pattern.

    @chrisdonovan
    Follow Follow @chrisdonovan
    More
    Trump is the FIFTH President in a row to have his party lose BOTH the VA & NJ gubernatorial races in his first year in office.
    Winners:
    2017: Dems Northam/Murphy
    2009: GOPers McDonnell/Christie
    2001: Dems Warner/McGreevey
    1993: GOPers Allen/Whitman
    1989: Dems Wilder/Florio

  14. grim says:

    Oh give me a break, go back to the old news articles about Florio and you’ll see that he had incredible support from the Italian and Catholic communities. The first candidate with an obviously Italian last name, and it was absolutely instrumental in his win.

    If a Polock with a SKI last name ran, you better believe the large majority of NJ’s Polish community would back him or her (in the case of a her, perhaps a SKA last name).

    There are nearly a million people in NJ that identify as being of Irish descent.

  15. D-FENS says:

    The Irish on my mother’s side always pull the lever for the D team no matter what their last name.

  16. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @tonyschwartz

    Not to be overlooked in all the other news today:
    Trump brazenly & offensively trying to cash in on presidency (once again) by promoting his golf club during speech on North Korea last night.
    Unconscionable.

  17. JJ fanboy says:

    Enjoy the coming tax increases. That is merely the price you have to pay for all the benefits of living in paradise

  18. D-FENS says:

    I’d vote for a half black half Asian gender fluid atheist if they lowered taxes.

  19. D-FENS says:

    Not just any run-of-the-mill centrist, Murphy most left-leaning gov-elect ever?@politicalstile https://njersy.co/2hQcJVS via @NorthJersey

  20. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Sorry guys, but now we have to listen to four years of I told you so.

  21. D-FENS says:

    Steve Sweeney‏Verified account @NJSenatePres 1h1 hour ago
    More
    The first bill we pass in January with our new governor will be a long-overdue millionaires tax to fairly and fully fund our schools.

  22. D-FENS says:

    up next maybe a carbon tax? more tolls? gas taxes?

  23. dentss says:

    D-fens ..we already have a millionaires tax …even though it starts at 250K ….

  24. grim says:

    Welcome to NJ, where we’re all millionaires.

  25. No One says:

    If I spoke Spanish I’d be considering fleeing to Costa Rica or Panama soon. 11% non-deductible state income tax is on its way for me. On the bright side, maybe the stock markets will crash and I can start making less than a million again.

  26. nwnj says:

    I still haven’t heard anyone explain how Christie was a disaster for the state or why they changed allegiance to Murphy. Other than the minority of people who voted in self interest, I haven’t heard a convincing case made that Murphy will be “good for NJ.”

    Even more obscure are the people who vote consistently democratic and are complaining about tax increases already. Talk about cognitive dissonance, I guess they didn’t get the memo that the Democrat party isn’t for the middle class anymore.

  27. grim says:

    I’m going to start pushing my local state legislators to mandate full day Kindergarten statewide, just to f*ck over the idiot Wayne republican contingent.

  28. grim says:

    Christie was too pigheaded to be concerned with the optics and perception of his actions.

    Had he kept up the appearances of attempting to work with the democrats, and perhaps come off slightly more abrasive, I suspect his legacy would be wildly different.

  29. grim says:

    “Get the hell off the beach you idiots” was clever, assertive in a respectful way.

    Sitting his ass on a beach and having a private party in a state park closed to the public during a holiday weekend was not.

  30. Fast Eddie says:

    The lay-abouts need us, we don’t need them. But at the same time, we have no one to shield us from the extortion. Those with means will be squeezed for more and there’s really nothing we can do about it. The only upside I see is that the riff-raff won’t be able to infiltrate my neck of the woods because dependency and ignorance will never equal success and the unabated increase in taxes will push the muppets back even further. Democrats love weaklings because it keeps them in power. The only thing left now is to figure out a way to make money off the deal.

  31. Yome says:

    The Country went Blue

  32. nwnj says:

    The wannabe(salaried) rich are the ones who figure to get crushed. Can’t restructure the income and can’t move with their feet. Between the potential Murphy increases and the loss of deductions in the Trump reforms they will take a big hit. Essex couty liberals who work in NYC should be prepared to “pay their share.”

  33. grim says:

    Montclair should raise their property taxes in protest against Trump capping the deduction.

    That’ll show em.

  34. Fast Eddie says:

    No mention of the German guy getting reelected in NYC?

  35. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Grim… How dare you! Don’t give them any ideas please.

    “Montclair should raise their property taxes in protest against Trump capping the deduction.”

  36. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    As the snowflakes/millennials get older, the country will get bluer and bluer. There’s no doubt about it. I’ll be in Costa Rica to watch what kind of an impact this will have on the American quality of life. I doubt it will be good.

  37. nwnj says:

    Montclair will be the NJ poster child for the real estate drops due to the loss of the bloated deduction. The badge of honor becomes an albatross.

  38. exJersey says:

    9:03. What you are seeing is an adjustment that will continue in the mid terms and more than likely put a check on the current POTus and send him packing once obstruction charges stick. See how this works?

  39. Fast Eddie says:

    exJersey,

    I don’t care. I just want to: a) make money and b) live among similar folks. See how this works?

  40. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @BillKristol

    Re the GOP: I’m all for fresh conservative ideas, openness to a new center, good young Republican candidates, etc. (I’m even involved in some efforts along these lines.) But until conservatives and Republicans confront the problem of Trump, I suspect nothing else gets traction.

  41. grim says:

    Has Montclair started to require bicycle registration and licenses yet? Lots of rich guys on expensive bikes these days. Someone needs to pay for the bike lanes.

  42. grim says:

    When will Republicans begin to confront the problem on being wholly non-representative of anyone but a small vocal minority? Which is exactly why Trump got traction, but then immediately turned into a Republican of the worst kind?

    I admit, I honestly thought that most of his campaign rhetoric was bullshit marketing to get votes, and then after winning he would move to center. Not sure what the f*ck happened there.

  43. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @jpodhoretz

    So here’s the story:
    Dems are now winning in exactly the manner that portends GOP disaster. Tonight will hasten GOP retirements and accelerate the portents.

  44. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    I think licensing bikes is required, but no one does it. Much like pet licensing. Though, the pet licensing actually gets you super cheap inoculations from the town so it makes sense to do it.

  45. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    “accelerate the portents”

    Hey Moana,

    Does he mean something calamitous is going to happen or something exceptional.

  46. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    ” Not sure what the f*ck happened there.”

    I thought so too. I think he bought into the Republican dogma in a failed-attempt to get support for his c0ckamamie policies. It backfired for the most part, because the tried and true Republicans did not like the party hijacking by a former liberal. You can’t really blame them.

  47. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Hey Moana,

    The families going on the D’s Make A Wish trip tomorrow. The kid wants to go to Disneyworld. I tried to convince him that the real Disney was in Hawaii, but even with part of his brain missing, he knew that Disney was in Florida. What’s your excuse?

  48. exJersey says:

    9:48. You are not wrong if it works for you.

  49. 3b says:

    Fast tons of multi family housing coming to Bergen county so you may get some of the riff raff.

  50. 3b says:

    Grin from earlier i was not looking for an argument re Murphy and Irish. But many of that background have become quite conservative ironically but there is some justification for that. In fact some could be considered the new wasps except they are Catholics. Many too are just Irish in name once a year St. Patrick day types. The day of the democratic Irish block vote is long gone.

  51. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    I don’t know Gary. Murph’s solution to builder’s remedy is “smart investing.” Let me know if you can figure out what that means. Me thinks he was smoking some of that legal weed when he invented that undefined term. Anyone know what it means?

  52. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    I googled the two terms. No hits. Except from the bong.

  53. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Phil Murphy theme song:

    Pick it, pack it, fire it up, come along
    And take a hit from the bong
    Put the blunt down just for a second
    Don’t get me wrong it’s not a new method
    Inhale, exhale, just got a ounce in the mail
    I like a blunt or a big fat coal
    But my double barrel bong is gettin’ me stoned
    I’m skill it, there’s water inside don’t spill it
    It smells like shit on the carpet
    Still it, goes down smooth when I get a clean hit
    Of the skunky funky smelly green sh1t
    Sing my song, puff all night long
    As I take hits from the bong

  54. leftwing says:

    “When will Republicans begin to confront the problem on being wholly non-representative of anyone but a small vocal minority? ”

    Your question may make sense from the perspective of someone residing in a State that just elected by a margin of 15 percentage points a candidate for governor who openly campaigned on increasing taxes and becoming a sanctuary State.

    When considered from the perspective of the populations of States that do not border the North Atlantic or Pacific Oceans the Republican viewpoints represent a strong majority.

  55. leftwing says:

    A simple reminder for all those who will be left behind (ie, earning $200k plus with Murphy as Governor and Democratic majorities in the Legislature):

    No society in history has ever taxed its way to prosperity.

    Good luck my friends, be well.

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  57. grim says:

    When considered from the perspective of the populations of States that do not border the North Atlantic or Pacific Oceans the Republican viewpoints represent a strong majority.

    I spend a good portion of my time in areas of the US that are firmly the core of the Republican base, and I do not agree. By the end of the year I’ll have done 100k miles, nearly all in-country, to many places you’ve never heard of. I spend a lot of time, talking to average people, in below average jobs.

    Two weeks back, I was in a city that is known as having the most hate groups in america per capita, and known as the most racist city in America – Harrison AK. Other than the hate groups, I really didn’t get the feeling that many cared too much for Trump anymore.

  58. leftwing says:

    On a local level not a lot of surprise outcomes in Morris County.

    What the hell is Victory Gardens? A small extended family can take over that town, lol.

    http://www.nj.com/morris/index.ssf/2017/11/nj_election_2017_morris_county_results.html

  59. leftwing says:

    Don’t disagree if you are talking Trump (v. Republicans).

  60. grim says:

    The Republicans are in for a shock in the next few years, as lots of the folks I talk to in these places are younger, in college, just out of college. These people are absolutely not Republicans. Older millennials in these areas are absolutely indistinguishable from the coasts now. They want nothing to do with their parents.

    If Obama spent as much time fishing and hunting as he did playing golf, maybe gone to a few Nascar races, he would have absolutely captured a wide swath of the midwest.

  61. D-FENS says:

    37% turnout with most votes coming from Essex, Hudson, and Bergen counties. All pulling for Murphy.

  62. grim says:

    37% – better than I expected

  63. leftwing says:

    Not sure, grim.

    Best essence of flyover territory for me was captured in the concept of ‘vigorous virtues’. Not sure that is changing soon, among the rank and file at least.

    Touched on by David Brooks in a NYT editorial.

    “The virtues most admired in such places, then and now, are what Shirley Robin Letwin once called the vigorous virtues: “upright, self-sufficient, energetic, adventurous, independent minded, loyal to friends and robust against foes.”

    The sins that can cause the most trouble are not the social sins — injustice, incivility, etc. They are the personal sins — laziness, self-indulgence, drinking, sleeping around..

    [T]hese Americans, like most Americans, vote on the basis of their vision of what makes a great nation. These voters, like most voters, believe that the values of the people are the health of the nation.

    In their view, government doesn’t reinforce the vigorous virtues. On the contrary, it undermines them — by fostering initiative-sucking dependency, by letting people get away with their mistakes so they can make more of them and by getting in the way of moral formation.”

  64. JCer says:

    speaking of taxes, it strikes me the problem with revenues in NJ is our progressive taxation. I think it might be possible to adopt a flat tax around 3-3.5% with no deductions and not really reduce revenues, simplify taxation and collection. NY income tax starts at 4%, if we could have a significantly lower tax on high earners we could get a migration in would would further bolster revenue. I think instead of modeling our income tax on CA we should look at PA as the regional competitor to emulate in order to stem outward migration and encourage job growth.

  65. No One says:

    America is growing increasingly collectivist. Both parties emphasize different elements of collectivism. Trump a nationalist anti-“foreign” version, yet who still welcomes a vast welfare state of a more corporatist nature. Democrats focus on the more collectivist-altruist side of identifying and creating victim groups and then using the state to redistribute wealth and favor to them. Neither party cares for individual rights or individualism.

  66. grim says:

    35% turnout, worst ever.

  67. No One says:

    JCer,
    Both parties believe in “redistributive justice”. Surprised PA still has a flat state income tax.

  68. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    “35% turnout, worst ever.”

    Two pretty sh1tty candidates. What did you expect? I swear, the political landscape has never been riper for a “clean” independent.

  69. chicagofinance says:

    Does it really matter? It isn’t about how popular someone is……. it is about a single poll, based on an actual vote count (no plus/minus or statistical significance), taken on the day of the election (not months/years before) where the voter much choose between two candidates (effectively)……..in private…. not taking to some rich geek on the street from the northeast….

    It is less about Trump and more about how bad a candidate the DNC offers up….

    grim says:
    November 8, 2017 at 10:35 am
    Other than the hate groups, I really didn’t get the feeling that many cared too much for Trump anymore.

  70. chicagofinance says:

    much choose = must choose

  71. leftwing says:

    55% of the voting electorate of 35% equals…..

    19% of your fellow citizens put Murphy in office. Think about who pulled those levers.

    Good luck, gentlemen.

  72. D-FENS says:

    The Democrat vote is further concentrating into the cities as well. That doesn’t bode well for a system that uses the electoral college.

    http://metrocosm.com/election-2016-map-3d/

    Local races, Governor’s races, house/senate are a different story.

  73. JCer says:

    I’m pretty sure murphy was paying guys in newark to vote.

  74. JJ fanboy says:

    Higher taxes + fewer deductions = booming nj real estate market/s

  75. Comrade Nom Deplume, whose sole regret is that he isn't Tom Brady says:

    “On their first full day of jury deliberations at the bribery trial of Senator Robert Menendez, a juror asked the judge a basic question: What is a senator?”

    Menendez will walk.

  76. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Was that question really asked? Headslap!

  77. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    LOL!

    For those of you that hoped for a republican governor, look on the bright side, at least now we have price discovery.

  78. leftwing says:

    Nom, for sure.

    Jury is going down the road of ‘he did it, but technically it was ok’.

    Down the same relativist rabbit hole as WJC during his grand jury testimony stating “it depends on what your definition of is is”.

  79. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Puzzy hasn’t had much to say about all the Democrat cunt grabbers in the news,right? I wonder why that is?

  80. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Pumps will have to pay up some more to be able to continue to brag that he is only one county away from being able to see NYC and two counties away from where people actually live that work there.

    Enjoy the coming tax increases. That is merely the price you have to pay for all the benefits of living in paradise

  81. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Scientists are implanting tiny HUMAN brains into rats

    I wonder how we get Pumps on the donor list?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/4867891/scientists-give-rats-consciousness-by-implanting-them-with-tiny-human-brains/

  82. leftwing says:

    “Puzzy hasn’t had much to say about all the Democrat cunt grabbers in the news,right? I wonder why that is?”

    Ha, he’s actually smart enough to not actually believe the stuff he regurgitates.

    Think he’s been smacked down by the reality of the situation for him.

  83. Mike says:

    Between Trump’s tax plan and Murphys tax increases, living in essex county – it is becoming quite crazy.

    I honestly do not know how anyone exists on $50K salaries in this state.

    If most people had to buy a house now – they cannot afford it.

    Downward spiral.

  84. Mike says:

    Scientists are implanting tiny HUMAN brains into rats

    I wonder how we get Pumps on the donor list?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/4867891/scientists-give-rats-consciousness-by-implanting-them-with-tiny-human-brains/

    —–

    Rats are actually very smart already.

  85. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    “I honestly do not know how anyone exists on $50K salaries in this state.”

    HELOCs, Credit Cards, 6 and 7 year terms on car purchases, etc.

  86. grim says:

    If most people had to buy a house now – they cannot afford it.

    Good thing Trump’s tax plan incentivizes corporate ownership of rental real estate by providing them benefits that normal citizens are no longer eligible for. This will certainly smooth the transition from home ownership to becoming renters, which I suppose is the master plan.

  87. grim says:

    Suppose this dovetails nicely with Murphy’s plan to create incentives for companies to invest in affordable housing. Will be interesting, get a knock at the door, “Good Afternoon Mr Grim, I’m here from Goldman Sachs to buy your house today.”

  88. JJ fanboy says:

    Grim,

    Do you think there will be a surge off llcs formed by parents who put up a down payment for their adult kids to buy a house the kid rents or leases to own from the parents llc?

    I don’t see how a family can afford a 400k house in nj with a loss of all these deductions. They would have to make 160 a year or more just to live in a pos cape that was last updated when Byrne was governor

  89. JJ fanboy says:

    Most countries don’t have the deductions that might go away , but those countries have national healthcare and/or require employers to contribute to that country’s version of a 401k

  90. JJ fanboy says:

    I also think all day kindergarten should be mandatory. These half day kindergartens are simply a way to enrich private daycares or force one parent to be a stay at home parent or work part time.

  91. JJ fanboy says:

    Theee posts in a row. I am pulling a pumpkin

  92. The Great Pumpkin says:

    ““Fundamentally, we agree with the idea of getting the federal government out of the business of subsidizing the states,” Mnuchin said in an interview Wednesday with Bloomberg TV in Washington. “Having said that, several of these states are a very big part of the economy — New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, California — and we’re sensitive to the impact on those states. I think that’s something we’ll continue to work with the House and Senate and look for the right solution.”

    The House tax bill released last week calls for the repeal of state and local income and sales tax deductions, while preserving property tax deductions up to $10,000. GOP House members in high-tax states, including New York and New Jersey, have expressed concern that repealing the break entirely would subject some people in their districts to higher taxes.“

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-08/revenue-hole-may-bring-gop-back-to-aca-repeal-tax-debate-update

  93. Mike says:

    I don’t understand what a property tax deduction of 10K is going to give you at all.
    If you cant reduce your state taxes, there is a good chance you aren’t going to itemize, especially if you are a ‘newer’ home owner with a $500K max deductible mortgage…

  94. Mike says:

    I am thinking it will be a good time to form some LLCs to buy properties for rental purposes, I don’t see any other way around it to arbitrage these increases.

    Of course owning stocks is also good due to corporate tax policies.

  95. joyce says:

    grim,
    Aren’t there already countless deductions businesses can take that individuals cannot?

  96. grim says:

    As it applies to residential real estate, private landlord vs corporate landlord? No it’s a pretty even playing field actually. Expenses, Maintenance, Depreciation, Interest, Taxes, write offs around management fees, etc etc.

    Previously, most private landlords with scale did move rental properties into corporations, but it was usually for estate planning reasons, not because the corporation afforded them any more tax advantages.

    In Trumps plan, a corporation would be able to deduct all mortgage interest, regardless of loan size, all state and property taxes (no cap), as standard business expenses.

    Structuring it as a pass through, there will now be a federal tax rate advantage on top of all of that.

  97. grim says:

    Imagine a situation where home prices did drop as a result of the changes. Someone savvy could move those assets into a corporate, mortgage them to the hilt and then purchase numerous below-market properties, which are now tax advantaged compared to the market – so it would be hard to imagine they’d have lower cap rates.

    If you have big money and legal skill, you would make out like a bandit. All the while previous homeowners are now turned into renters, while you bank the profits.

  98. 3b says:

    Mike You are right. People upset over the cap on property taxes which could be a positive going forward but not a peep about the loss of the income tax deduction.

  99. grim says:

    The people bitching about the individual property tax deductions likely have a large amount of other deductions to bring them over the standard deduction rate.

    I had north of $40k in deductions out of the business (net loss). Given the $10k vs no $10k, it’s material to me. If you have a paid off house and no mortgage or other deductions, doesn’t help you.

    What can I say, start a small business and burn all your savings, you’ll have some nice write-offs.

  100. JJ fanboy says:

    Can you form an llc to buy a house and then rent the house from your llc? Or could a married couple do that? One forms an llc and buys a house and the other rents it and they both live in it?

  101. grim says:

    Can’t wait to buy a big F150 with Section 179

  102. grim says:

    Know how you win with Trump’s tax policy? Act like Trump. It’s never been so easy to know how to game the tax code.

  103. grim says:

    Can you form an llc to buy a house and then rent the house from your llc? Or could a married couple do that? One forms an llc and buys a house and the other rents it and they both live in it?

    Not really, no.

  104. abeiz says:

    Grim,
    What is the exact impediment to doing this?
    I hear about a third of midtown is absentee-owner empty apartments purchased cash only via LLC’s.

  105. grim says:

    Thats to obscure ownership, not to circumvent taxes.

  106. leftwing says:

    “GOP House members in high-tax states, including New York and New Jersey, have expressed concern that repealing the break entirely would subject some people in their districts to higher taxes.”

    Noooo…..These people are already subject to higher taxes in their districts.

    Now, they will just actually have to pay 100% of said taxes.

  107. JJ fanboy says:

    Grim,

    Thanks for clarifying that. Was just curious.

  108. joyce says:

    To be fair, I’m still catching up on reading the proposal as it keeps changing. That said, I was talking about homeowners vs ‘businesses’ (whether private/corporate/pass-through/whatever). I was saying that homeowners didn’t get to deduct expenses such as maintenance and depreciation like business do.

    Yes homeowners, if this passes, will lose some tax benefits. But private landlords will still be able to deduct everything they have been before.

    It seems like just because this deduction has been around for a very long time people are freaking out (like anytime a change is proposed to something that’s been around a while).

    I’m not in favor of this tax plan for other reasons, but it seems like all a private landlord would have to do is some paperwork (and pay for it unless they’re capable on their own) to structure a pass-through.

    grim says:
    November 8, 2017 at 2:43 pm
    As it applies to residential real estate, private landlord vs corporate landlord? No it’s a pretty even playing field actually. Expenses, Maintenance, Depreciation, Interest, Taxes, write offs around management fees, etc etc.

    Previously, most private landlords with scale did move rental properties into corporations, but it was usually for estate planning reasons, not because the corporation afforded them any more tax advantages.

    In Trumps plan, a corporation would be able to deduct all mortgage interest, regardless of loan size, all state and property taxes (no cap), as standard business expenses.

    Structuring it as a pass through, there will now be a federal tax rate advantage on top of all of that.

  109. leftwing says:

    Grim, love ya brother, but you are getting way too cute (or paranoid) over these changes. 2:46p is a bit over the top.

    I understand where you are going with ‘private’ v ‘corporate’ landlords but there is no material differentiation in the tax code. If it is a rental (investment) property the same general rules apply to the property regardless of ownership entity.

    Dropping investment real estate into a ‘corporate’ entity (or LLC, or LP) can be done for estate purposes but is overwhelmingly done for liability. Corporate veil and all that. Caveat, if you are also the manager/snow removal/handyman/plumber/et. al. for your property then the corporate veil protection may not be of much use depending on the circumstance. For debt, yes. For a lawsuit because of a slip and fall on an inadequate repair you made to the stairs…..you won’t get sued personally as the owner, but will get sued personally as the repairman.

    For anyone thinking they can ‘arbitrage’ profits that wouldn’t otherwise exist simply by paying the State a $125 filing fee and picking a cute name, ain’t gonna happen.

    Liken it exactly to the example above – the fact that you drop your and your spouse’s primary residence into an LLC is not going to make it a ‘business’ entity. Likewise, business operations owned directly and personally and not through a ‘corporate’ entity (don’t know why anyone would do that) is not ‘personal’ simply because it lacks a corporate shell wrapped around it. Or, another example, throwing your beach house into an LLC without changing the underlying situation does not all of sudden mean you can depreciate it. You need to go back to the underlying facts (usage in this case).

    My accountant is pretty conservative and I have had ‘look throughs’ every year that go both ways – ie, he goes to the underlying transaction/facts and apportions cash flows appropriately.

    Nothing in the proposed tax law changes any of this.

  110. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Boston has all day kindergarten that begins at age 3. ELCs (early learning centers) have four grades, K0, K1, K2, 1st.

    7:15AM-5PM with yellow bus door-to-door service and free meals and snacks. Some families I think try to get their kids in ELCs way across town so that, with the bus ride, it become 6:15AM-6PM that they don’t have to worry about their kids interrupting their daytime TV watching.

    Our daughters are teenagers now but they’ve been in public school since they were 3 years old and are now in a HS (Boston Latin) that sends 25 kids to Harvard every year. Best bang for the (non)buck you can get.

  111. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And you call me retarded. So taking away these deductions from personal homeowners and giving them to LLC’s will not create a class of corporate landlords? You are lost, lefty. You are so annoying, you want to so badly stick it to nj citizens. You try to find any reason to justify it. Keep reaching and keep thinking you are better than jersey citizens.

    “I understand where you are going with ‘private’ v ‘corporate’ landlords but there is no material differentiation in the tax code. If it is a rental (investment) property the same general rules apply to the property regardless of ownership entity.“

  112. The Great Pumpkin says:

    The hypocrisy…..social!st!

    “Our daughters are teenagers now but they’ve been in public school since they were 3 years old and are now in a HS (Boston Latin) that sends 25 kids to Harvard every year. Best bang for the (non)buck you can get.”

  113. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Tax fraud….

    JJ fanboy says:
    November 8, 2017 at 2:51 pm
    Can you form an llc to buy a house and then rent the house from your llc? Or could a married couple do that? One forms an llc and buys a house and the other rents it and they both live in it?

  114. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    That’s my plan. I’m even going to have my wife be the owner. Lots of better-than-SBA loans, grants, and services for women and minority-owned businesses. My wife is as wasp as Elizabeth Warren, maybe she has a hint of Fauxcahontas blood too? I just have to be careful to not be profitable (or very profitable) through at least 2022 when the youngest will start college. I guarantee we’ll still be renters and will have some very expensive car payments when our kids get close to the application stage.

    A few years ago I thought that being retired when the kids go off to college is the best posture, now I’m thinking small business owner is going to be even better. We have Romney-care so Health insurance isn’t even a problem.

    What can I say, start a small business and burn all your savings, you’ll have some nice write-offs.

  115. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Pumps – Do you even know what ratables are? BTW, how much are you planning to pay for your kid’s primary education? It’s hard to pass up a free path to Harvard.

    The hypocrisy…..social!st!

  116. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Here’s your vocabulary word for the day Pumps:

    https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/ratables

  117. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I had to laugh during the campaign when anything they threw at Trump the Clinton’s had already done something 1000 times worse, yet in a comparable area (Trump U, Laureate U; Trump Foundation, Clinton Foundation; Puzzy talk, shoving a cigar up an intern’s cunt and jizzing on her dress in the oval office, etc.). Now it just continues but is now consuming the entire Democrat/Entertainment/Media empire.

  118. leftwing says:

    “And you call me retarded” Yes

    “So taking away these deductions from personal homeowners and giving them to LLC’s will not create a class of corporate landlords?”

    V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y given your disability….

    Nothing is being ‘given’ to LLCs specifically regarding real estate investment in the Code that did not already exist. Everything that was previously expensed, is. What wasn’t, isn’t. To the extent an LLC (real estate or otherwise) shows income it may benefit from the marginal savings in the reduced pass-through rate, depending on one’s specific circumstances. If an LLC owner (real estate or otherwise) wants to go out and buy a big new shiny truck, there is a slight new incentive to do that.

    Certainly nothing is being ‘taken’ from individuals and then ‘given’ to LLCs at their expense. Had you an iota of reading comprehension you would have understood that was the point of my posting.

    So, no, dumbass the benefits being conferred to ALL LLCs under the new proposals will not create a new class of corporate over(land)lord.

    To the extent that there are eliminations of personal deductions for individuals associated with the monthly cost of home ownership then grim’s allusion to lower home values at the margin may be valid. It is debatable – because it relies on facts not yet known and that are individually specific, as well as a value judgment – whether such effect is ‘positive’ or ‘negative’. Arguably, a decrease (or deceleration in the rate of increase) in home values may actually be beneficial to certain swathes of the population when taken in combination with the other proposed changes.

    Got it, Ee-yore?

    Now back to ignore for you.

  119. PumpkinFace says:

    He’s back to his real stupid ways. Saying you said something you didn’t say just to disagree with you.

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    November 8, 2017 at 4:14 pm
    And you call me retarded. So taking away these deductions from personal homeowners and giving them to LLC’s will not create a class of corporate landlords?

  120. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Pumps – If you weren’t retarded you would have at least graduated HS instead of dropping out to work at the Post Office. Did you ever get your GED? Is that one of the degrees you claim to have?

  121. grim says:

    Speaking of not knowing the outcome.

    Delay the corporate tax cut because of debt impacts?

    So WTF the point of the whole tax plan then?

  122. leftwing says:

    You know, I ignored your idiocy for two weeks and in responding to latest inanities the chicken I was grilling blackened.

    Fcuking idiot douchebag.

    Yeah, PF, my bad for taking the bait when I was on the sidelines for so long. Won’t fall off the wagon again.

  123. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Donna Brazile is going to be on Tucker Carlson tonight at 8, so set your DVRs.

  124. 3b says:

    Seems to me many want tax reform social security reform etc but no one wants to pay for it or wants the wealthy to pay for it. When we may now be the wealthy that have to pay for it or some of it then it becomes the next rung up of wealthy. Or perhaps the uber wealthy and then the .001 percent wealthy. At the end of the day no one appears to want to pay for it i want what benefits me and the rest be damned. I understand but what of the future generations? The ones newly out of college? The ones on this board who have children of various ages? Do we not at least attempt to make some reforms or changes even if they may not be beneficial to us? Or do we just kick the can down the road and let them deal with it all?

  125. leftwing says:

    Ha, i’ll have to watch it.

    She was on CBS This Morning. The hosts came out swinging, really trying to make her uncomfortable in her revelations. She dialed it back a bit (“I was upset, but don’t see anything that swayed the primaries). They wouldn’t let go. She tried to go to hacking, they wouldn’t hear of it (a first for the CBS hosts, not running with ‘Russian’ hacking). They tried to make her as uncomfortable as possible, and mostly succeeded.

    She is going to be persona non-grata in the National Party. Maybe the Murphy-Baraka ticket can help her out with a good ole fashioned Dem no show job.

  126. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Ignore the clown. I’ve been doing it for about 2 weeks now. If everyone does it, he will wither and go away…eventually…hopefully….please, pretty, please. Or maybe die.

  127. 3b says:

    Lib a week and a half for me. Tempted. But Pete is watching. It does get easier though.

  128. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You closet social!ist!

    The Original NJ ExPat says:
    November 8, 2017 at 4:27 pm
    Pumps – Do you even know what ratables are? BTW, how much are you planning to pay for your kid’s primary education? It’s hard to pass up a free path to Harvard.

    The hypocrisy…..social!st!

  129. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Ignorance is strong with this one.

    No sh!t, nothing is being taken from individuals and given to llc. Who said that?

    Okay, try to understand this mr. simpleton. If you take away the tax incentive of owning real estate from the individual, but leave those incentives in place for business, wtf will happen know it all? Every individual forced to sell will be bought out by an investor through a business. Doubt the price even drops because the hawks will be all over it. So keep telling yourself this tax law will have no impact on who owns real estate. Now go look in the mirror and tell yourself nice and slow how stupid you are.

    “Nothing is being ‘given’ to LLCs specifically regarding real estate investment in the Code that did not already exist. Everything that was previously expensed, is. What wasn’t, isn’t. To the extent an LLC (real estate or otherwise) shows income it may benefit from the marginal savings in the reduced pass-through rate, depending on one’s specific circumstances. If an LLC owner (real estate or otherwise) wants to go out and buy a big new shiny truck, there is a slight new incentive to do that.

    Certainly nothing is being ‘taken’ from individuals and then ‘given’ to LLCs at their expense. Had you an iota of reading comprehension you would have understood that was the point of my posting.”

  130. The Great Pumpkin says:

    How does an individual even compete with investors in the real estate market when one gets write offs for owning and the other does not?

  131. The Great Pumpkin says:

    If price drops, you think individuals will benefit? How? The investors will be watering at the mouth for an opportunity like this. Not exactly high yield investments out there right now. If rent fell, I would agree with you, no investor will touch it. Problem is, rent is going to go up even higher as more people are unable to afford the home price without the deductions. So they will compete harder in the rental market as the participants swell, driving up the rental price. All investors care about when it comes to price is what does it produce. How will prices fall with rents going up?

    Donkey, is this too much for your simpleton mind to understand?

    “To the extent that there are eliminations of personal deductions for individuals associated with the monthly cost of home ownership then grim’s allusion to lower home values at the margin may be valid. It is debatable – because it relies on facts not yet known and that are individually specific, as well as a value judgment – whether such effect is ‘positive’ or ‘negative’. Arguably, a decrease (or deceleration in the rate of increase) in home values may actually be beneficial to certain swathes of the population when taken in combination with the other proposed changes.”

  132. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Lefty, and anyone else that supports this current tax reform plan.

    Let me ask you a question? Why would you want to hurt the most economically productive states to give to unproductive economies in middle American states. From an investment standpoint it makes no sense. You are taking away investment from the most productive areas and redistributing it to the least productive areas and why? That’s a$$ backwards from an economic position, yet you guys are advocating for this? Why not feed the economic powerhouses so you get the biggest return on your investment?

  133. leftwing says:

    Sounds like we have a little AA, er PA, group here. Support, guys! Just take it day by day. LOL.

  134. PumpkinFace says:

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    November 8, 2017 at 6:02 pm
    Ignorance is strong with this one.

    No sh!t, nothing is being taken from individuals and given to llc. Who said that?

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    November 8, 2017 at 4:14 pm
    And you call me retarded. So taking away these deductions from personal homeowners and giving them to LLC’s will not create a class of corporate landlords?

  135. PumpkinFace says:

    “Let me ask you a question? Why would you want to hurt the most economically productive states to give to unproductive economies in middle American states. From an investment standpoint it makes no sense.”

    Expat… do you cross out thing on this paragraph.

  136. PumpkinFace says:

    Idiot has a fetish for real estate. Businesses including real estate investments get all sorts of things to expense that individuals whether homeowner or not do not. Business are not individuals and never should have ‘personhood’ (but that’s another topic).

  137. D-FENS says:

    Oh man. They’re already gleefully talking about carbon taxes. Who’s ready for higher electric bills?

    https://twitter.com/reuters/status/928409322534658049

  138. Fabius Maximus says:

    “I woke up this morning and I remembered a man.
    I work up this morning and I remembered Jes us”

    Its amazing how people remember when the dirt surfaces or the body starts floating!
    https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/08/corey-lewandowski-carter-page-email-244689

  139. Fabius Maximus says:

    Interesting take on the Amazon HQ.
    “That hasn’t stopped rampant speculation in the meantime, though. Some have relied on guesswork to choose a winner, but not Thinkful. Using a data science process known as “recommendation systems,” the same one Amazon uses to determine what you’ll want to read or buy next, the IT education company crunched the numbers to determine that—wait for it—Washington DC possesses the ideal balance of traits that Amazon is looking for in its second home.”
    https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/amazon-headquarters-washington-dc

  140. Fabius Maximus says:

    “Sorry guys, but now we have to listen to four years of I told you so.”

    Well you also have another 3 years of me asking “Are we great yet Gary?”

  141. joyce says:

    Yup, another sign of maturity and being the bigger person.

  142. Fabius Maximus says:

    Joyce,

    Eight years I had to listen to it. He now gets his words right back!

    “You now have […] majorities in the House, Senate and the Whithouse [sic]… I don’t want to hear one f*cking excuse […] ever again.

    Everything from this point forward should smell like a rose and I expect a lot of stuff to be handed to me on a golden platter. Indeed… ask what your Country can do for you.”

    Are we great yet Gary?

  143. Fabius Maximus says:

    My favorite news story of the day.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/08/carl-icahn-subpoenaed-biofuels-sec-244705

    Icahn Enterprises L.P. says in the Nov. 3 10-Q filing that the U.S. attorney recently contacted it “seeking production of information pertaining to our and Mr. Icahn’s activities relating to the Renewable Fuels Standard and Mr. Icahn’s role as an advisor to the President.”

    President Donald Trump named his longtime billionaire friend as an unpaid “Special Advisor to the president for Regulatory Reform” in December, though Icahn resigned that position in August after drawing criticism that his efforts to change the RFS would benefit CVR Energy, an oil refining company he owns.

  144. 3b says:

    Fab fair point but you always portrayed yourself as above that type of behavior.

  145. The Great Pumpkin says:

    3b/lefty mindsets. This article sums up your position on north jersey. You guys can’t handle all the problems associated with high cost/productive areas. You think lowering taxes can solve all problems…wish it was that easy. Hope you enjoy the read…it directly highlights the problems with capitalism.

    https://www.citylab.com/life/2017/11/how-seattle-fell-out-of-love-with-amazon/545045/

  146. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I should have been careful with my wording. People analyzing my every word around here. Anyone with common sense would have known what my words were implying. Yes, I meant they were taking them away from individual homeowners and letting (giving) the businesses keep their deductions as is.

    PumpkinFace says:
    November 8, 2017 at 6:59 pm
    The Great Pumpkin says:
    November 8, 2017 at 6:02 pm
    Ignorance is strong with this one.

    No sh!t, nothing is being taken from individuals and given to llc. Who said that?

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    November 8, 2017 at 4:14 pm
    And you call me retarded. So taking away these deductions from personal homeowners and giving them to LLC’s will not create a class of corporate landlords?

  147. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Here in lies the problem…no one pays for what they use.

    “But now we know that, despite the millions that have flowed to local governments in the Seattle area from Amazon, that money isn’t believed to be enough to pay for all the problems the company’s growth caused. Constantine is saying Seattle will need much more of it if we want a chance to solve our housing shortage and public transit crisis. And that’s not happening: Since a senior Amazon executive told a tech conference that the Seattle region had a snowball’s chance in hell of winning HQ2, we’re going to have to admit that it’s really time to wean ourselves off our Amazon addiction.“

  148. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    LOL. If Donna Brazile didn’t show her dishonesty by giving questions in advance to Hillary and… lie about the emails being “doctored” before finally fessing up, she could be a candidate for president in 2020. She must hate the Clintons because they haven’t been actually caught for 75,000 perpetrating 75,000 times what Hillary and Bill did.

  149. exJersey says:

    Catching the Black Sabbath tour filmed for cable.

    Those guys sound incredible.

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