Upper middle class not paying their fair share?

From Bloomberg:

Should the Upper Middle Class Take the Biggest Tax Hit?

Humans learn the concept of fairness at a very young age. After all, it doesn’t take long for a child to start whining about a sibling who gets an extra serving of ice cream. As the Republican-controlled Congress tries to push through tax reform this year, one group of Americans may similarly question why it’s coming up a scoop short.

The upper middle class gets relatively few benefits and a disproportionate number of tax hikes under the $1.4-trillion Tax Cuts and Jobs Act approved by the U.S. House of Representatives last week. Families earning between $150,000 and $308,000—the 80th to 95th percentile—would still get a tax cut on average. But by 2027, more than a third of those affluent Americans can expect a tax increase, according to the Tax Policy Center.

If the House bill becomes law, overall benefits for the upper middle class will start out small, and later vanish almost entirely.

Is this fair? Some argue it’s only right for the upper middle class to carry a heavier burden. This is because the top fifth of the U.S. by income has done pretty well over the past three decades while the wages and wealth of typical workers have stagnated. People in the 81st to 99th percentiles by income have boosted their inflation-adjusted pre-tax cash flow by 65 percent between 1979 and 2013, according to the Congressional Budget Office. That’s more than twice as much as the income rise seen by the middle 60 percent. (The top 1 percent, meanwhile, saw their income rise by 186 percent over the same period, but that’s another story.)

“Many upper-middle-class families will tell you they do not feel wealthy,” said Brian Riedl, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, a right-leaning think tank. “Their standard of living [is] closer to the middle class than to the top 1 percent.” The income numbers don’t tell the whole story, he explained. The upper middle class is weighed down by high costs: Affluent workers live in expensive areas, pay a lot for real estate and daycare, and are taxed far more than Americans further down the ladder.

Richard Reeves, a senior fellow at the left-leaning Brookings Institution, isn’t buying that argument. He’s the author of “Dream Hoarders: How the American Upper Middle Class Is Leaving Everyone Else in the Dust, Why That Is a Problem, and What to Do About It.”

“There’s a culture of entitlement at the top of U.S. society,” Reeves said. While others focus on rising wealth of the top 1 percent, Reeves argues that the gap is widening between the top 20 percent and everyone else. The upper middle class is guilty of “hoarding” its privileges, using its power to skew the job market, educational institutions, real estate markets, and tax policy for its own benefit, he contends.

“The American upper middle class know how to take care of themselves,” Reeves said during a presentation at the City University of New York last week. “They know how to organize. They’re numerous enough to be a serious voting bloc, and they run everything.”

This entry was posted in Demographics, Economics, National Real Estate, Politics. Bookmark the permalink.

116 Responses to Upper middle class not paying their fair share?

  1. D-FENS says:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3o_LXM_Q20

    REAGAN: “We’re reducing tax rates by simplifying the complex system of special provisions that favor some at the expense of others. Restoring confidence in our tax system means restoring and respecting the principle of fairness for all. This means curtailing some business deductions now being written off; it means ending several personal deductions, including the state and local tax deduction, which actually provides a special subsidy for high-income individuals, especially in a few high-tax states. Two-thirds of Americans don’t even itemize, so they receive no benefit from the state and local tax deduction. But they’re being forced to subsidize the high-tax policies of a handful of states. This is truly taxation without representation.”

  2. D-FENS says:

    President Reagan In 1985: Eliminating The SALT Deduction Will Make The Tax Code Fairer

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1oQUNdDcZw

  3. dentss dunnigan says:

    Reagan was ahead of his time ……..MAGA

  4. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @jonathanweisman

    So the tax bill ends deductions for teacher out-of-pocket spending,
    whacks graduate students and ends student loan deductibility but
    keeps carried interest and
    all but eliminates the estate tax.

  5. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @kurteichenwald

    If this tax bill is not stopped, it will be the end of the American era.
    Public education crushed, brain drain of advanced degrees, trillions in debt, crippling Medicare.
    For what?
    Cause rich ppl really really promise THIS time to use $ for jobs, when never did before?

  6. JJ fanboy says:

    Y’all just need to cowboy up and pay up for the quality benefits of New Jersey.

    Although I am still waiting to hear how local government in nj provides benefits to its residents that are superior to those comparable towns in Texas or other parts of flyover country .

  7. nwnj says:

    They aren’t superior, but the profligate spending at the local level ensures that the critical mass of imbiciles exists to perpetuate the sham. Look no further than the Menendez trial to see how the “system” in NJ works.

  8. Not NWNJ says:

    NWNJ, don’t worry so much about Menendez. His trial should be seen as a continuation of Torricelli vs. Menendez – this is an old 20+ yrs personal grudge match between very big boys.

    Now, about whatever tax law goes into effect, I guarantee you will be 180 degrees reversed, come 2019+ with or without Trump. With Trump – because of Mueller’s investigation result will be out by that time and Trump will be very very malleable in his deal making. Without Trump – The Dems will have majorities in both houses -enough to rammed thru.

  9. grim says:

    Although I am still waiting to hear how local government in nj provides benefits to its residents that are superior to those comparable towns in Texas or other parts of flyover country .

    They don’t, and it’s not a flyover vs coast issue. It’s a legacy infrastructure and density issue. Look around, density makes repair of infrastructure incredibly expensive. Imagine replacing the entire water system in Hoboken? Or the stormwater system in Paterson, we are talking about billion dollar projects. Compared to Texas where there is new development as far as the eye can see. They can eminent domain a thousand acres and it barely makes a dent in a budget. Meanwhile, try to expand Rt 46/3 – any one of those gas stations is sitting on dirt worth more than $5 million.

    These up-and-coming areas will feel the same pain over the next century as their legacy costs will begin to skyrocket.

    You mentioned flyover – I’ll point to Flint as a great example. What is the cost estimate to replace Flint’s water system?

  10. grim says:

    And sorry, but with some of the most egregious giveaways to the rich being retained, I have a hard time swallowing the altruism story.

  11. chicagofinance says:

    I can’t stand this quote…….the upper tier earners, but not truly wealthy, are generally ambitious, full of self-sacrifice, and stressed out about their complex lives. This bastard makes the group sound like a political party or a union……what an offensive mischaracterization…..

    “The American upper middle class know how to take care of themselves,” Reeves said during a presentation at the City University of New York last week. “They know how to organize. They’re numerous enough to be a serious voting bloc, and they run everything.”

  12. Daddy Deported says:

    breathe through your nose and relax your throat.

    And sorry, but with some of the most egregious giveaways to the rich being retained, I have a hard time swallowing the altruism story.

  13. Daddy Deported says:

    chifi – Shhhhh! That’s why we don’t allow Jerseyans to take 4 week vacations. If they had that much time to think about how they’d rather live they might come home, quit their jobs, and move someplace better. The New Jersey RE market would tank in New York minute if people really considered quality of life.

    the upper tier earners, but not truly wealthy, are generally ambitious, full of self-sacrifice, and stressed out about their complex lives.

  14. Daddy Deported says:

    Like I’ve said before, nobody has every said these words:

    “I’m fed up with this place. I’m going to just sell everything and then move to New Jersey.”

  15. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Something sounds familiar.

    “The JEWS know how to take care of themselves,” Reeves said during a presentation at the City University of New York last week. “They know how to organize. They’re numerous enough to be a serious voting bloc, and they run everything.”

  16. Juice Box says:

    Goota love the CEO of MRK, stock is at a 52 week low during this bull run in the market and he is still taking the helicopter to work from Pennsylvania.

  17. LurksMcGee says:

    Based on that quote from 85′, I’m convinced that the economic/political system can be be seen as “seasons”. Every ten years and a pendulum swing, we get Dem Pres and Rep Pres. Then we get new taxes and tax cuts. Its like raking leaves in the fall but everyone keeps complaining like the leaves aren’t going to come…..

  18. 3b says:

    If this bill passed the Democrats won’t be changing it when they are back in power.

  19. Daddy Deported says:

    Through Obama we’ve had 3 consecutive 2 term presidents. The last time that happened was Jefferson, Madison, Monroe.

  20. nwnj says:

    The government of NJ is more progressive and there is a tolerance for corruption that doesn’t exist everywhere. If the demographics in other areas change to be more similar to NJ then I agree but otherwise I wouldn’t put my money on it.

    These up-and-coming areas will feel the same pain over the next century as their legacy costs will begin to skyrocket.

  21. grim says:

    The government of NJ is more progressive and there is a tolerance for corruption that doesn’t exist everywhere.

    Bureaucracy breeds corruption. Increase the complexity and machination of the political machine, and the end result is that it breeds corruption.

    There is plenty of corruption elsewhere, believe me, the scale is a bit smaller though.

  22. D-FENS says:

    Blue state lawmakers including NJ backtracking on planned tax increases.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/19/gop-tax-reforms-state-capitals-democrats-247678

    The Republican tax reform push in Washington is setting off budgetary alarm bells in high-tax states like New York, California and New Jersey, in the latest political skirmish to pit national Republicans against Democratic state and big-city leaders.

    With Republicans intent on shrinking or repealing the state and local tax deduction, California officials are worried that the House-passed tax bill, and the emerging Senate measure, would force local governments to reduce taxes and make big cuts to schools and social services. In New York, where New York City and state revenues are heavily reliant on just a handful of wealthy tax filers, budget watchdogs fear federal tax changes could trigger the flight of those residents. And in New Jersey, plans for a new millionaire’s tax, one of incoming Gov. Phil Murphy’s biggest campaign promises, are already being reined in as the Democratic-led New Jersey Senate waits on the outcome of any federal tax plan.

    “We’re going to have to re-evaluate everything” if a federal bill repealing the state and local tax deduction becomes law, New Jersey Senate President Steve Sweeney said Wednesday in Atlantic City. Just days before, Sweeney had said he would make passage of a millionaires tax his chief priority in the new administration. “I’m just saying that what’s happening in Washington is concerning the hell out of me,” he added.

  23. JCer says:

    Chi your on the money it’s offensive. We are not super organized, we do not vote as a block and many are democrats. The professional class pays the majority of the taxes and does the heavy lifting and go to work every day, some will join the wealthy class most will not. Both sides have a bullseye on this group because they are ripe for taxation. Yes we are doing better than the bottom but that is because of effort and were not entirely spared by the last recession. Stressed is the way I would describe the upper middle class and make no mistake fears regarding cost cutting, automation, and skyrocketing expenses keep us up at night.

  24. grim says:

    FET reductions would sure help me out, this is big money in my pocket.

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/16/news/beer-wine-whiskey-tax/index.html

    It’s like the Republicans said, how can we make Grim’s life easier, he needs more money in his pocket.

    The maximum potential benefit for me is a $100,000 reduction in annual federal excise taxes. Not a write off, direct reduction.

  25. grim says:

    So when I criticize the Republican plans, realize that I stand to gain absolutely handsomely if this passes.

  26. leftwing says:

    Had some info for lurks and 3b on political winds and the 80s.

    Something not obvious is shutting it down (not moderation, just poof)

    Any list of verboten words anywhere?

  27. JJ fanboy says:

    Slick Willy has 4 new accusers from the early 00s.

  28. JJ fanboy says:

    Grim,

    By the time those legacy costs for new areas come due, everyone reading this blog will be deceased or wearing a diaper. So let our grandkids deal with it. It’s the American way

  29. grim says:

    Put it in context of the boomer locusts, and it all makes sense.

    After you burn out an area and milk it for what it’s worth, you pick up your bags and leave it to go to shit. On to the next hot area to pillage.

  30. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    “fears regarding cost cutting, automation, and skyrocketing expenses keep us up at night.”

    I sleep like a baby, often dreaming about “pura vida.”

    Property taxes average $150 on $200,000 worth of property. HOW DO THEY DO IT?

    Healthcare costs are 1/3rd to 1/5th of what they are here. And it’s higher rated. HOW DO THEY DO IT?

  31. 3b says:

    Three social events this past weekend and not a word about tax reform. Some of that indifference might come from the fact that it won’t matter people will still want to live here.

  32. 3b says:

    Grim true but you should throw in the gen x crowd too. They are just like the boomers in many respects.

  33. grim says:

    Acquaintance of mine on FB posted a message about no longer being able to afford to go to the doctor. In a high deductible plan, any visit is a potential minefield of unexpected costs. Why even bother walking in at all if you know that you probably can’t afford treatment?

  34. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @ezraklein

    Was just talking about this with someone.
    It is very hard for me to explain what House Rs from CA/NY/NJ are thinking.
    Is it pure career sacrifice for a bill they believe in?
    A view that constituents don’t actually notice policy change, or don’t vote on it?

  35. grim says:

    Flu this year sucks by the way, if you haven’t gotten your shot go right now. I’ve been out of commission for 3 days and am about to call it quits and head to bed.

  36. grim says:

    There are lots of wealthy business owners in NJ who will do very well under the new changes.

  37. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @SenSchumer
    One of Senate GOP’s ways of offsetting the costs of their giant tax giveaway for the wealthy is destroying healthcare. It won’t work:

    grim says:
    November 20, 2017 at 10:52 am
    Acquaintance of mine on FB posted a message about no longer being able to afford to go to the doctor. In a high deductible plan, any visit is a potential minefield of unexpected costs. Why even bother walking in at all if you know that you probably can’t afford treatment?

  38. grim says:

    I can fix healthcare in 5 years.

    Make H1B exclusive to medical professionals only.

    Establish license reciprocity.

    Done, fixed.

  39. exJersey says:

    10:30. As will we. Go Big Pharma!!

  40. grim says:

    Maybe even pay out the highest demand position moving and relocation expenses to the US.

  41. JJ fanboy says:

    I know 1 guy in my subdivision who complains about the property taxes in our town and what does he get for his 8k a year and how he can buy a house in an unincorporated area for only 2k a year. Every time I have the misfortune of seeing him. A few months ago at a neighborhood gathering he did it again. So I had enough and paraphrased JJ. I pointed out he has 4 kids in the school system costing us a combined 35k a year, plus he gets the roads, police, fire department, library, and all the parks for free. And people actually want to live in our town and his house would sell in a month. Plus he has a 15 minute commute. Moving to an unincorporated area would give him an 1.5 hour commute, a lousy school system, and not much demand for his patch of faux paradise.

    We haven’t been invited to another neighborly gathering since.

  42. Daddy Deported says:

    The scale of corruption is directly proportional to property taxes.

    Bureaucracy breeds corruption. Increase the complexity and machination of the political machine, and the end result is that it breeds corruption.

    There is plenty of corruption elsewhere, believe me, the scale is a bit smaller though.

  43. Daddy Deported says:

    Re: corruption

    No matter the ill-gotten gains, the guys who live on Urban Club Road still have to pay their property taxes.

  44. Daddy Deported says:

    I could give you some other streets in Wayne, but that’s where the old guard lives.

  45. leftwing says:

    Grim, thx on the list, found it. Of course, I will now have to probe the IPs lol.

  46. leftwing says:

    Lurks/3b re: political winds

    David Stockman. Although he received a fair amount of grief for candor during his political time, and his business record is mixed at best, he nailed one point on the ‘Reagan Rev0lution’ he helped b1rth which was zeroing out programs.

    In his view curtailment, even to extremely low levels, was ineffective because once political power changed programs would be re-funded especially with the infrastructure (employee and other) intact. It is more difficult to fund and create new programs than revive old.

    His mission, successful to an extent most would not have thought possible, was the wh0lesale shutting down of government programs, not just dialing back.

    It’s why I support certain parts of the bills making their way through. Get me to four rates rather than just play with the seven (four is closer to one). ‘X’ out things like SALT and MID in total, don’t leave the weed in the ground to sprout back up in the future. Zero out the estate tax (and up the highest marginal rate to pay for the difference if need be). Etc.

    Basically anything that can help get us closer to Steve Forbe’s idea of a flat tax, accept. If it takes a higher marginal rate tradeoff, so be it.

  47. leftwing says:

    From separate comments above. Not unrelated.

    “Three social events this past weekend and not a word about tax reform.”

    “We haven’t been invited to another neighborly gathering since.”

  48. JJ fanboy says:

    Grim,

    Tell your fb buddy to go to Walmart clinics for non life threatening stuff. A nurse practitioner is $40 and the costs for tests are a la carte. I took my son to one a few years ago when I thought he had strep throat on a Saturday. A trip to urgent care would have cost us at least $150-$200 with a 1k deductible per person. Walmart was $48 including the strep test. Walmart doesn’t take insurance but you can submit the bill towards a deductible.

    I wouldn’t go to a cvs minute clinic or Walmart’s clinic for irregular heartbeat or other potentially life threatening things, but I do use them on weekends for ear infections, strep, flu and think they are perfectly fine.

  49. 3b says:

    Left I am going to be paying somewhat more in taxes as per my CPA. It is what it is. The flat tax is the fairest in my opinion but it will never happen. I am still surprised though that no one Democrat or republican is even talking about it. Don’t really know what that means.

  50. JJ fanboy says:

    Leftwing,

    People don’t like their little thought bubbles to be popped by data

  51. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    JJ FB,

    That’s how it works in CR, except instead of C0stco, you go to the local pharmacist which has a doctor on staff. Most (non-abused) items which are behind the counter here do not require a prescr1ption down there, such as birth control, anti-biotics, etc. HOW DO THEY DO IT?

  52. Daddy Deported says:

    A high ranking Boston Cop told me over the weekend that one of their biggest fears is ANTIFA.

  53. JCer says:

    libturd, countries like Costa Rica have way less in the way of industrial production, infrastructure etc. Lower wages are responsible, being a small country the sales tax and income tax revenue flows to the localities which spend far less on infrastructure(no industry and lower population density. Here you pay for legions of do nothing government workers do defend their fiefdom at federal, state and local levels and a huge millitary all things which do not exist in small countries. The US is somewhat unique with regard to governmental waste with the feds and the states and for some reason the EU want to move in this direction…..

  54. Daddy Deported says:

    Lib – I am warming up quite a bit to CR as an alternative to the humid Asian countries for retirement. Both my daughters are taking Spanish as their 2nd required foreign language (4 years of Latin is required plus 4 years of another language).

  55. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @kurteichenwald

    2001: Economy struggling. GOP solution: TAX CUTS!
    2017: Economy doing well. GOP response: TAX CUTS!

    Reality: Huge tax cuts in a strong economy causes inflation/boosts interest rates. We will be spending a decade digging ourselves out of this mess if GOP tax bill passes.

  56. nwnj says:

    Franken, lol. Buh bye. Extinguished is another glimmer of hope for 2020. This will be a great 8 years.

  57. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @DeanClancy

    DC rumor mill:

    Hill Rs are plotting to abolish the debt ceiling & instead automatically increase the nat’l debt with each new spending bill.

  58. Juice Box says:

    re:A high ranking Boston Cop told me over the weekend that one of their biggest fears is ANTIFA.

    Jeeze you make them sound like the early 1970s weathermen. Do the cops now need to check under the hood every time they get in a patrol car? I don’t think we are there yet.

    https://www.riverfronttimes.com/stlouis/blown-to-peaces-weather-underground-leaders-claimed-their-bombings-were-devised-to-avoid-bloodshed-but-fbi-agents-suspect-the-radical-70s-g/Content?oid=2491682

  59. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    If you never been to CR, there are two things that will surprise the heck out of you. One, the emphasis on the environment and maintaining it for future generations. Two, a real lack of materialism. And I probably should add a third, the absolutely craziest (and worst) drivers in the world. Get your kids a moped when they are 15. It’s really, the best way to get around down there.

    Did I mention how cheap it is to fly down there?

  60. Juice Box says:

    re: debt ceiling

    What debt ceiling?

  61. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    DD,
    Spanish will help you obtain dual citizenship if you desire it. But, most Costa Rican’s are bilingual. Though, knowing a little Spanish will definitely help you appear less gringo and more Tico.

    Costa Rica has the lowest poverty rate in Central America. The unemployment rate hovers between 7 – 8% and the average per capita income is just under $8,000 USD. The poverty percentage is around 20% of the population and is defined by the country as those earning under $155 per month. The majority of people in this classification live in the inner city of San Jose or in rural areas. To put this in perspective; the international poverty line is considered to be those earning less than $1.25 per day. Less than 2% of the population of Costa Rica would fall into this category.

    HOW DO THEY DO IT? :P

  62. Daddy Deported says:

    The context was maintaining public safety at demonstrations.

    A high ranking Boston Cop told me over the weekend that one of their biggest fears is ANTIFA.

  63. Phoenix says:

    New blood pressure readings lowering numbers. Is that really to promote health or to add an entirely new group of people to having pre existing health issues with a corresponding increase in insurance rates/ineligibility….

  64. chicagofinance says:

    For Stu:

    Excellent name for Boystown bar/restaurant in Chicago…..

    Wood

  65. Times boy says:

    How do they do it? By not doing this:

    Subway workers now make an average of $170,000 annually in salary, overtime and benefits, according to a Times analysis of data compiled by the federal Department of Transportation. That is far more than in any other American transit system; the average in cities like Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and Washington is about $100,000 in total compensation annually.

    The pay for managers is even more extraordinary. The nearly 2,500 people who work in New York subway administration make, on average, $280,000 in salary, overtime and benefits. The average elsewhere is $115,000.

    New York is more expensive than most other cities, but not by that much. The latest estimate from the federal Department of Commerce said the region’s cost of living was 22 percent higher than the national average and 10 percent higher than the average for other areas with subways.

    Mr. Samuelsen rejected the idea that subway workers were overpaid, arguing that it is a dangerous job in which assault is common. “We earn every penny that we make,” he said. “This is New York City. This isn’t Mayberry. It costs $700,000 to buy a house in Brooklyn. What do you want us to make? Fifteen dollars an hour?”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/nyregion/new-york-subway-system-failure-delays.html

  66. nwnj says:

    lol, again. Fake news nytimes hires an admitted “hack” and later has to suspend him for acting “inappropriately”, but couldn’t care less about his journalistic reputation. Love to see progressives imploding left and right.

  67. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    CHI,

    I still like the Hangar in NY.

  68. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    There used to be the Bulge, in Mass too.

  69. leftwing says:

    “What makes these countries so ‘free’? …. Laws which allow a citizen to live a l1berated life, and the resources to do so.”

    The recipient’s ‘resources’ is someone else’s b0ndage.

    Stu, on CR add to the list of surprises the (lack of) poverty point you make later. Was amazed on my trips to CR how little it resembled the Caribbean in that regard. Every villa we’ve ever taken in the Caribbean had window bars/door gates and you had to drive through areas of extreme p0verty to get there (Barbados was probably least worst).

    CR, no outward p0verty. Sure, people don’t have Mercedes G65s and satellite dishes. But nowhere did I drive through the stacked concrete block/tin roof dwelling with cars on blocks and dinner running around a cage in the front yard. Or that air of hopelessness and anger on the occupants.

  70. leftwing says:

    From the Times article above:

    “This is New York City. This isn’t Mayberry. It costs $700,000 to buy a house in Brooklyn. What do you want us to make? Fifteen dollars an hour?”

    Son, your ego is writing checks your body cannot cash.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlOuqaZVSsw

    When the boom swings around on that boat it is going to clear the decks…….

  71. joyce says:

    Healthcare providers are the primary driver of costs, not insurance.

    Phoenix says:
    November 20, 2017 at 12:11 pm
    New blood pressure readings lowering numbers. Is that really to promote health or to add an entirely new group of people to having pre existing health issues with a corresponding increase in insurance rates/ineligibility….

  72. JCer says:

    surprise, surprise the MTA is one of the most incompetent organizations in the world. It makes njtransit look good, my wife used to audit them and the stuff you’d here was interesting to say the least. I have another friend who works of the MTA as a mediator for suspended employees and the kinds of things the employees get away with is nothing short of astounding, they have quite a strong union. That pay is nuts I should go be a subway manager…..

  73. Daddy Deported says:

    Yellen resigns.

  74. Daddy Deported says:

    Barron Trump to be vice-chair to Powell.

  75. Daddy Deported says:

    Steve Forbes says Yellen’s legacy will be that of a seat warmer, she just kept on with Bernanke’s policies.

    I guess if you’re looking for a seat warmer, she could do more warming than most.

  76. Daddy Deported says:

    I guess Mika no longer likes working at MSNBC

    MSNBC’s Mika Brzezinski demanded Monday that former President Bill Clinton issue an apology for the behavior detailed in the sexual misconduct allegations against him.

    “You guys, I’m sorry — but I’m not sorry, actually,” Brzezinski said. “Hillary Clinton needs to stop, she needs to stop talking about this topic unless Bill Clinton wants to come forward and apologize for being a sexual harasser, for settling with women.”

    “He needs to apologize as quickly as Al Franken did,” Brzenzinski said of Clinton. Last week, Sen. Franken (D-Minn.) issued multiple statements apologizing after being accused of kissing and groping a woman without her consent.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/media/361183-mika-brzezinski-bill-clinton-needs-to-apologize-or-stop-talking

  77. Daddy Deported says:

    Democrats – The party that is too busy grabbing puzzies to do anything else.

    (Maybe too long for a bumper sticker?)

  78. Daddy Deported says:

    Absolutely correct, joyce. Lots of talk about premiums, just about zero talk about prices for procedures and tests (and how any test/scan/MRI in a hospital automatically costs at least four times more than anywhere having it done anywhere else).

    Healthcare providers are the primary driver of costs, not insurance.

  79. JCer says:

    The costs are out of control and the insurers aren’t helping they add another layer of inefficiency and the whole billing process adds overhead to the providers which necessitates higher costs.

  80. Daddy Deported says:

    JCer – You too are right. The layer that insurers care about is euphemistically called their “Network of Providers”. The euphemism comes into play because their “network” amounts only to the direction that they aim the fire hose of cash after they wet their own beak.

    Here’s proof: If you are big enough to self-insure your employees, your ex-insurer will pay YOU to do all the billing and administrivia just for pumping your cash through their “network”. The last time I checked, the insurer will pay the self-insured company a few hundred bucks per head for using their fire hose.

    The costs are out of control and the insurers aren’t helping they add another layer of inefficiency and the whole billing process adds overhead to the providers which necessitates higher costs.

  81. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    I shared a story here about 8 years ago about the MTA token booth attendant below the building I worked in at the corner of Varick and Houston. Well this was the time that the MTA made the wise decision to only have one token booth open per station. Well, the little old lady who worked our booth I figured would have been transferred. This perhaps happened eventually, or she retired. But for about 12 months after they closed her booth, the glass in the token booth was covered with cardboard. But strangely, she was still paid to sit in the booth. Month after month after month, I would peak in through the cracks in the cardboard, and sure enough, she was still there. It finally got me so incensed that I called the MTA on it. They said she was working security. Oy vey! This lady couldn’t barely walk. And she definitely wasn’t looking at anything. MTA…going your way!

  82. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Anyone want to guess what my “D’s” 6-month MRI’s will cost for the next 5 years? Not what is billed, but what is paid by me and my insurers? It’s a standard brain and spine scan. We’ve done four already. Start your guessing, two scans per year for our next five years and one per year for the rest of D’s life.

  83. exJersey says:

    11:34. He mispronounced Angina.

  84. Daddy Deported says:

    My guess is that an MRI *should* cost $800, but given it’s probably at a hospital I’ll hike that up to $3200, add in that it’s a child, follow-up for a brain tumor, perhaps anesthesia, maybe the cost of interpreting the results are involved? I’ll go with $6,800 per MRI. No, cancel that, I’m going $8K.

    Anyone want to guess what my “D’s” 6-month MRI’s will cost for the next 5 years? Not what is billed, but what is paid by me and my insurers? It’s a standard brain and spine scan. We’ve done four already. Start your guessing, two scans per year for our next five years and one per year for the rest of D’s life.

  85. Daddy Deported says:

    Without giving you the whole setup to a great joke, I’ll just give you the punchline

    80 year old newlywed bride on the first night with her similarly aged groom, also his first marriage:

    Henry, I have to tell you something before we do anything. I have acute angina.

    Henry:
    I hope so, because your t1ts sure look like hell.

    11:34. He mispronounced Angina.

  86. D-FENS says:

    Dear Governor-Elect Murphy,

    The day after you were elected, I was pleased to talk with you and agree to work together to improve the lives of New Jerseyans, while refraining from taking cheap political shots at each other. I thought we had a good conversation and remain hopeful we can have a productive working relationship. I was therefore, very disappointed by press reports that during your very first sit-down TV interview this past weekend, you chose to go after me over my sincere efforts to provide real tax relief for my constituents.

    While you have promised to raise taxes on New Jerseyans by $1.3 billion dollars, the bill I voted for will cut taxes for the vast majority of families and businesses in our state. This bill includes a number of provisions that will benefit our residents including:

    • Increasing the child tax credit from $1,000 per child to at least $1,600

    • Creating a tax credit for those caring for non-child dependents

    • Doubling the standard deduction to $24,000 for a family

    • Preserving a property tax deduction that will benefit all N.J. homeowners

    • Moving from a high-rate system with lots of loopholes that usually just benefit the wealthy, to a simpler, fairer system that lowers rates and closes loopholes

    Furthermore, I understand that state legislative leaders in New Jersey are already reconsidering their plans to raise taxes, which would be a welcome new direction for Trenton.

    I have never shied away from a serious policy discussion and recently held a five hour town hall meeting in Willingboro, a town in which I only received 12% of the vote in the last election. In that same spirit of an open and honest dialogue, I’d like to invite you to my home county for a substantive discussion on tax policy. Let’s put the talking points aside and have a conversation about your plan to raise taxes in N.J. and my efforts for real tax reform in Washington D.C. Our mutual constituents deserve nothing less.

    You have my cell phone number and should feel free to call me to discuss.

    – Tom MacArthur

  87. D-FENS says:

    you wanna piece o me?

  88. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Dear Tom MacArthur.

    You are full of sh1t!

    • Moving from a high-rate system with lots of loopholes that usually just benefit the wealthy, to a simpler, fairer system that lowers rates and closes loopholes

    What I call a loophole, you call an itemized deduction. If loopholes were really closing, guys like you and me wouldn’t make of like bandits as a result of your so-called tax reform.

    — Drop Trow Murphy

  89. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Perhaps because the MRIs are being screened by some of the best oncologists in the world, combined with the fact that anesthesia is involved brings my family share to $11,000 max out of pocket and the insurance company pays the other $29,000. This is per MRI. We have two of these per year. Doctors got to eat you know!

  90. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    And you wonder why more and more people are going to Southeast Asia and Central America for healthcare.

    I read an interesting article on a gentlemen who had dental insurance but needed about $6,000 worth of work to be performed. His insurance covered about $1,200 of it. Instead of paying the mad lobby-fed USA #1 markup, he got the work done in Costa Rica over three weeks. Between the cost of the airfare, the food, transportation and lodging, he still saved $3,000 out of pocket and vacationed in Costa Rica for three weeks as that’s how long the treatment required. I think he got a cadaver implant or something.

  91. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Honda takes 7 of Kelley Blue Book’s top 12 best buys of 2018. It’s almost laughable.

    https://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-latest/best-buy-awards/2100000577/

  92. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    That new Clarity plug-in Hybrid may be our next car.

  93. Daddy Deported says:

    HOLY CRAP! So that is $40K per? Hi-yah! Now I know to add in another factor of 4 for CHOP, over and above ridiculous.

    Perhaps because the MRIs are being screened by some of the best oncologists in the world, combined with the fact that anesthesia is involved brings my family share to $11,000 max out of pocket and the insurance company pays the other $29,000. This is per MRI. We have two of these per year. Doctors got to eat you know!

  94. Grim says:

    5 days in NICU for my daughter was half a million dollars.

  95. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Yup! Crazy right? I’ll double check with Gator…that sounds way too high. Will confirm with you all later, but I kind of remember that number.

  96. Grim says:

    The NICU attending billed $50,000.

    We were in Nicu 24/7 – never saw them. By the way, they dont accept any insurance.

  97. exJersey says:

    I’m in a 2016 Outback ‘r’. Lifted sedans ftw!

  98. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Our total bills (billing amount, not what will be paid) is approaching 4 million. :P

  99. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Which NICU Grim? St. Barnabas/Hackensack?

  100. exJersey says:

    3:17. Ba-da-biiiing

  101. Daddy Deported says:

    I have some professional knowledge in this space. That cadaver implant is just the tiniest morsel of bone that they drop in to promote bone growth where the healthy tooth used to root in the jaw. It’s not like they “matched” the patient with some compatible donor, those cadaver bone fragments are off-the-shelf parts ( they are refrigerated, though).

    I think he got a cadaver implant or something.

  102. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    I’ll look it up. I read it online…so it must be true!

  103. 3b says:

    Assuming this tax plan passes. I wonder how many might be closing on a house soon and have no idea their property tax deduction is going to be capped?? Surprise!!

  104. Grim says:

    St Joes in Paterson

  105. exJersey says:

    We gotta get over our weirdness about ‘Sex’. Iffn’ we wanna lead the free world.

  106. Leftwing says:

    Charlie Rose busted for harassment. Eight women on his shows, got them to hotel room and popped out naked.

    Seems to be the liberal MO. Trump, the piker. Didn’t even have enough ba11s to drop drawer.

  107. JJ fanboy says:

    Medical costs are highway robbery in this country. You raise the price of plywood 20% as a hurricane is coming and it is price gouging. Charge $600 for a chest X-ray after charging $1,200 just to walk through the door of an ER is perfectly legal

  108. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    lol, what I gather from all of these creepos is that none of them had any real game. Buncha weirdos.

  109. Fabius Maximus says:

    Hope you all enjoy CR for your retirement. I’m changing my plans and heading for Portugal. Up in the hills of the Algarge. Short drive to the beaches and an great golf wine and seafood.

  110. peteojayy says:

    Wow, she is one of the most beautiful girls I have seen
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmxdAu6RQtM

  111. joyce says:

    They’re both illegal; only one is enforced.

    JJ fanboy says:
    November 20, 2017 at 7:46 pm
    Medical costs are highway robbery in this country. You raise the price of plywood 20% as a hurricane is coming and it is price gouging. Charge $600 for a chest X-ray after charging $1,200 just to walk through the door of an ER is perfectly legal

  112. Libturd sporting Tiger Wood says:

    MRI – CHOP bills $40,000 and they get $20,000 each from BCBS.

  113. Libturd sporting Tiger Wood says:

    Charlie Rose? The guy who I used to put on to fall asleep?

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