“No one gets creamed more than New Jersey from this tax bill”

From the NY Times:

In One New Jersey Town, Pending Tax Changes Create Anxiety

Politically speaking, Livingston is not the bluest of the suburbs surrounding New York City. But there are few places where people are feeling any more anxious about the potential impact of the federal tax bill proposed by Republican leaders in Washington.

“They’re crippling us,” said Walter Levine, who has lived in this New Jersey community since 1976.

As Mr. Levine sees it, Livingston, a fairly affluent town with a population of about 30,000, could become even less affordable as residents face rising tax bills and falling home values. They could be left with less disposable income to spend in the local stores, setting off a “domino effect” that could derail the town’s economy.

It is a dire forecast, but not a radical one. Livingston sits on the western edge of Essex County, which Moody’s Analytics, a company that provides economic research, placed at the top of its list of places whose housing markets would suffer the most under the Republicans’ plan. According to Moody’s, the tax proposal could carve as much as 10.5 percent off the projected value of homes in Essex County in two years. Six other New Jersey counties made the top 10 on Moody’s list.

Livingston’s Republican representative in Congress, Rodney Frelinghuysen, voted against the House version of the tax bill because, he said, of the “very negative impacts it would have on so many of my fellow New Jerseyans.”

In many ways, Livingston is a microcosm of all the forces that will collide in the heavily taxed towns that ring New York City when the proposed tax law takes effect. These are places that have drawn residents willing to stretch their budgets to cover big mortgages and high property taxes in exchange for good schools and a comfortable lifestyle, understanding that they could deduct their local levies and reduce their federal taxes. But the tax bill would radically alter that equation, forcing potentially painful choices in towns like Livingston. For some, the math just may not work anymore, driving them and their neighbors to reconsider the classic suburban dream.

“No one gets creamed more than New Jersey from this tax bill,” said Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody’s Analytics. He said the state was particularly vulnerable because its homes are expensive, its property taxes are the highest in the nation and it also has a high state income tax.

This entry was posted in Economics, National Real Estate, New Jersey Real Estate, Politics. Bookmark the permalink.

124 Responses to “No one gets creamed more than New Jersey from this tax bill”

  1. ExJersey says:

    Recession dead ahead!

  2. dentss dunnigan says:

    A word of advice to Livingston ….you’re taxes will never be as low as they are now ..so enjoy it while you still can …

  3. ExJersey says:

    Livingston evolved after the Jewish folks bailed on a West Orange. Suppose they’ll head to Randolph now? Joyce? Thots?

  4. Three Secret GEDs says:

    Not just a recession, A HUGE DEPRESSION!!

    For Democrat Party seats across the nation, that is.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Recession dead ahead!

  5. ExJersey says:

    8:11 faggot

  6. Three Secret GEDs says:

    The MSM will be pooping their pants for such a long time that I think they’ll eventually enjoy it as the status quo. Acosta will be consistently dropping a full load.

  7. ExJersey says:

    8:11 cum guzzler

  8. Three Secret GEDs says:

    That’s the Democrat Party I know. Nicely done.

    8:11 faggot

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  10. Three Secret GEDs says:

    I wonder if the Democrat Party will go down in history as the party of hypocrites or just plain vanilla liars. “Hey black people – we’ll make your lives better, but you have to give us more than 50 years. These things take time, after all.”

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

  11. ExJersey says:

    8:19. Wtf?

  12. ExJersey says:

    We got us another scholar here.

  13. Three Secret GEDs says:

    8:21 Exactly

  14. ExJersey says:

    8:22 just another short bus’er

  15. ExJersey says:

    Jersey sucks . Now thanks to Trump it’ll suck way more.

  16. D-FENS says:

    Do you two even live in NJ anymore?

  17. ExJersey says:

    Nope.

  18. ExJersey says:

    8:38. What was your first clue? Man nothing gets by You Republicans

  19. nwnj says:

    Interesting to see Livingston described as “fairly affluent”. Sounds like hiding wealth and living below your means could become vogue in NJ.

    Essex county liberals are about to get a wakeup call when they get the full bill for their good programs instead of being subsidized by middle America.

  20. Grim says:

    Get the full bill?

    Explain how that works.

  21. nwnj says:

    And just so everyone realizes what a hack Phil Murphy is going to be. Look no further than this photo. This is Corzine redux, I don’t think it will be a laughing matter when people start to see a big bite taken out of their income.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/12/18/chris-christie-not-amused-as-grinning-successor-poses-with-infamous-beach-photo/

  22. ExJerzy says:

    8:57 another complete republican failure – boo hoo

  23. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Christie is a typical bully….can give it, but can’t take it. God forbid Murphy has a sense of humor.

  24. ExJersey says:

    Christie is a footnote.

  25. ExJersey says:

    I wonder if Mary Pat is ready to go back to work?

  26. Three Secret GEDs says:

    NJRERe Poll

    Is ExJersey still up and partying on West Coast time or is she a morning drinker?

  27. Three Secret GEDs says:

    Another theory: Smoke inhalation?

  28. Three Secret GEDs says:

    Anybody selling into today’s rally?

  29. Three Secret GEDs says:

    I’ve been clawing back a little bit of liquidity over the last few sessions. I’m selling my minor winners.

  30. ExJersey says:

    Secret faggot banker

  31. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    You would have thought Drop Trow Murphy would have learned something when he poked fun at Merkel.

    Hell of a start for a guy with no political experience who bought the election. Good luck NJ.

  32. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Are you two morons done?

  33. nwnj says:

    They will be building statues of Christie by the time Phil the turd is through.

  34. ExJersey says:

    9:43. I’ll commission Botero.

  35. ExJersey isAf8g says:

    See XJersey, South Park found you out.

    https://youtu.be/7hV3LwA6y0o

  36. Three Secret GEDs says:

    Homebuilder sentiment now at the highest level since 1999?

  37. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Botero. Clever. For a change. :P

  38. nwnj says:

    I had to look up Botero. I was thinking the guy who did the original Grimace piece for McD would work.

  39. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    I wonder if the stock market performance under Trump is killing the progressives. It’s difficult to ignore the wealth he is creating through this novelty tax reform. Could you imagine if Obama did this instead of the porkulous?

  40. Alex says:

    What is it with this mentality liberals have that will smuggly spend exhorbitant amounts of money on schools and then expect other states to pay for it? If you want to spend it then you darn well better pay for it.

  41. Three Secret GEDs says:

    Ever notice how CNN and MSNBC never, ever, ever mentions the economy or the stock market? Kind of like Hillary never having a press conference for four years.

    I wonder if the stock market performance under Trump is killing the progressives. It’s difficult to ignore the wealth he is creating through this novelty tax reform. Could you imagine if Obama did this instead of the porkulous?

  42. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    “Ever notice how CNN and MSNBC never, ever, ever mentions the economy or the stock market”

    Media is more divisive than the politicians themselves. Likewise, Fox and the New York Post never have anything nice to say about the blue time. Much like the politicians need to maintain their base. These media outlets must maintain their high readership and viewership to collect higher ad rates. The middle (USA Today) is just about gone.

  43. 3b says:

    Seems odd homebuilder sentiment would be so high? Just saying.

  44. Nomad says:

    Lib, 10:18

    They are just looking to ring as much ad $$ out of the current situation as possible. Can you imagine a newscast without drama, speaking to a situation with objective commentary about pro and con of each situation? For instance, what is the average effective tax rate of the S&P 500 today and what will it be with the pending new legislation? U like USA facts?

  45. dentss dunnigan says:

    It looks like Trumps tax bill won’t let you take the deduction for prepaying you property tax …

  46. JCer says:

    What is repugnant about the tax bill is it achieves almost nothing it set out to. I don’t get lower rates or fewer brackets, the AMT stays and is in effect at relatively low incomes, I lose SALT, the estate tax stays, etc their tax policy is a bunch of gimmicks, a tax cut for pass though entities and largely the same flawed tax code we had before.

  47. grim says:

    Those tax bracket changes are better than I expected.

    We should run a few typical NJ profiles through the tax brackets and deductions. I suspect for someone making $150-200k, the bracket savings will outweigh the $10k deduction caps.

  48. Phoenix says:

    It adds to the deficit.
    A gift to the “grandfathered” crowd.

  49. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Bingo. I go from 33% to 24%. I’ll trade salt for this. Messed up tax reform, but it’s helping me.

    grim says:
    December 18, 2017 at 11:05 am
    Those tax bracket changes are better than I expected.

    We should run a few typical NJ profiles through the tax brackets and deductions. I suspect for someone making $150-200k, the bracket savings will outweigh the $10k deduction caps.

  50. chicagofinance says:

    Here…. get your rocks off….just FYI….this “instrument” trades at a 70% premium to the underlying…… match your wits against Uber drivers, shoe shine salesmen, and spray pancake purveyors….

    https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/GBTC?p=GBTC

  51. Bagholder says:

    ‘Essex county liberals are about to get a wakeup call when they get the full bill for their good programs instead of being subsidized by middle America.’

    —————

    “No state was more shortchanged by New Jersey, according to a 2015 analysis by New York State Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli. On a per person basis, New Jersey sent $2,659 more to Washington in taxes than it got back in federal spending, more than any other state.”

  52. JCer says:

    Essex county liberals spend most of their taxes on a Newark and a Zoo. No one is subsidizing the obscene tax bill here.

  53. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    ChiFi,

    I would love to know the name of the one analyst that issued a hold rating and a $62 price target that Yahoo finance chose to list on GBTC.

  54. nwnj says:

    It doesn’t matter what NJ pays and gets back unless you want to end redistribution at all levels. How much do Morris, Bergen and Hunterdon pay to Trenton and what do they get back? Let’s start there…

  55. Bagholder says:

    ‘It doesn’t matter what NJ pays and gets back unless you want to end redistribution at all levels. How much do Morris, Bergen and Hunterdon pay to Trenton and what do they get back? Let’s start there…’

    We could start by not saying things that aren’t true. NJ subsidizes states like Louisiana and Mississippi, no reason to lie about it.

  56. Fast Eddie says:

    Will the discussion now ramp up regarding the consolidation of town services? Does Norwood and Northvale, for instance, need two police forces, multiple superintendents and various school officials with six digit salaries? Perhaps removing SALT and capping the deduction at 10K will reignite this discussion? Maybe this is the Republican’s way of outraging the locals and forcing a consolidation. How else to break the deep-rooted system of wasteful excess in this state?

  57. A Home Buyer says:

    BagHolder –

    What does subsidize even mean in this case.

    As several individuals have been stating, the majority of federal tax money that finds its way into “states” is not a payment to states directly but through individuals. Individuals that Blue states have dictated need this money because they are disabled, poor, or somehow otherwise disenfranchised by the system.

    The other portion of government spending is through direct employment by the federal government. Some of that may be discretionary spending by Congress, but no one wants munitions testing facilities in their backyard. Or nuclear storage. Or to surrender deep harbors for naval bases. Or prime real-estate for Air Force base in the middle of a congested populated area. And its not the federal governments fault if a defense contractor or Aerospace company is located in a red state due to business costs rather then New Jersey.

  58. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    As long as the two towns merging don’t have the same name, consolidation will never happen.

  59. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (puzzy Edition):

    Obama protected Hezbollah drug ring to save Iran nukes deal

    By Ruth Brown December 18, 2017 | 11:14am

    A team at the Drug Enforcement Administration had been working for almost a decade to bring down the Lebanon-based militant organization’s sophisticated $1 billion-a-year drug ring — which it found was smuggling cocaine into the US and laundering the profits by buying used cars stateside and shipping them to Africa for resale, Politico reports.

    But the departments of Justice and Treasury delayed and rejected prosecution and sanctions requests from the team that had exposed the Iran-backed criminal network because the Obama White House feared “rocking the boat” with Tehran ahead of the deal, the site reports.

    “This was a policy decision, it was a systematic decision,” David Asher, who helped found the program for the Defense Department, told Politico. “They serially ripped apart this entire effort that was very well supported and resourced, and it was done from the top down.”

    The taskforce, named Project Cassandra, worked for eight years out of a top-secret facility in Virginia with help from 30 American and foreign security agencies, unraveling the global crime syndicate that was funding Hezbollah’s Jihadi operations, the site reports.

    Among those the team sought to bring to justice were Abdallah Safieddine, the group’s envoy to Tehran and a shadowy operative nicknamed “Ghost,” who it considered one of the biggest cocaine smugglers in the world.

    “Hezbollah operates like the Gambino crime family on steroids, and [Safieddine] is its John Gotti,” ex-DEA agent Jack Kelly, who created the taskforce, told Politico. “Whatever Iran needs, Safieddine is in charge of getting it for them.”

    But the administration repeatedly stymied efforts to prosecute Safieddine — even though the team had eyewitnesses willing to testify that he’d overseen big weapons and drug deals — and ultimately shut Project Cassandra down once the nuclear deal was settled, Politico reports.

    “They were a paramilitary organization with strategic importance in the Middle East, and we watched them become an international criminal conglomerate generating billions of dollars for the world’s most dangerous activities, including chemical and nuclear weapons programs and armies that believe America is their sworn enemy,” Kelly told the site.

    An Obama spokesman denied Project Cassandra was derailed for political reasons, noting several Hezbollah members were arrested on its watch and sanctions put in place.

    Other administration officials suggested those involved were blind to the bigger picture.

    “I get the feeling people who don’t know what’s going on in the broader universe are grasping at straws,” one anonymous official told Politico.

    “The world is a lot more complicated than viewed through the narrow lens of drug trafficking. So you’re not going to let CIA rule the roost, but you’re also certainly not going to let DEA do it either.”

  60. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Sounds like a Homeland season.

  61. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @ezraklein

    There is something wrong with a political system where the presidency is won on a populist message and the resulting policy is pure plutocracy, where #DrainTheSwamp becomes tax breaks for hedge funds, the well-connected, and the president’s family.

  62. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @MaxBoot

    I don’t see how defense hawks can in good conscience vote for a tax bill that will add at least $1 trillion to our debt. That will undermine our fiscal health and crowd out defense spending.
    This is a bill that will make China great again.

  63. Grab them by the puzzy says:

    @DLeonhardt

    Most members of the middle class and poor pay a higher total tax rate than they did a half century ago.
    The rich pay a much lower rate.

    The G.O.P. tax bill will aggravate the situation and turbocharge inequality.

  64. Three Secret GEDs says:

    So the 47% that pay zero is exactly how much higher than a half century ago?

    Most members of the middle class and poor pay a higher total tax rate than they did a half century ago.

  65. 3b says:

    Fast Regionalization is the only answer. But it won’t happen unless its forced. One because some towns won’t want to merge with towns that are of lesser quality whether real or imagined. Oradell for instance deems itself better than River Edge and does not have all the rental housing that River Edge does. No way oradell will merge willingly. Same thing with Wash Twp and Westwood. Tenafly won’t merge with Dumont. In the end though many of these towns will simply have no choice.

  66. chicagofinance says:

    A good number of people have a negative tax rate…..pay minimal into the system (sales tax?)….and receive government benefits…..

    Three Secret GEDs says:
    December 18, 2017 at 1:27 pm
    So the 47% that pay zero is exactly how much higher than a half century ago?

    Most members of the middle class and poor pay a higher total tax rate than they did a half century ago.

  67. No One says:

    here puzzy,
    Watch this video of SNL ladies singing “to sir with love” to Obama.
    You can sing along and cry about how much you miss his voice and gentle touch.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qXBaqdKuyM

  68. Fast Eddie says:

    Can anyone tell me what a property tax reduction of 10K will save someone when they do their taxes? For instance, let’s say your property taxes are 20K. 10K can be deducted. How does the other 10K hurt a homeowner? What are they losing by not being able to use the whole 20K? What’s the dollar amount lost? Can anyone here answer this?

    Also, what is meant by SALT? I mean, I know what it stands for but what does “local” taxes mean? Is that the same as property taxes?

  69. leftwing says:

    Still my favorite SNL skit with relevance to this blog

    http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/dont-buy-stuff/n12020?snl=1

  70. 3b says:

    Fast state taxes local taxes as in NYC resident tax and local tax property taxes. That is how I define it.

  71. leftwing says:

    “Fast Regionalization is the only answer. But it won’t happen unless its forced.”

    At the end of the day whether Chester, Mendham, Chatham, Freehold, Morris Townships and Boros merge really doesn’t matter to me. They can all stay separate and have all the redundancies they want. They can pave their downtown streets in gold for all I care.

    Just don’t ask me to subsidize it.

  72. Libturd, AKA Dr. Howie Feltersnatch says:

    Moody’s predicts a 10% hit to property values due to tax plan. So figure, I’ll lose between 5 and 10K with tax reform. And the values of my homes when combined will cost me a cool $120K. And the reform accomplishes absolutely nothing, which you’ll see when companies do little more than buy back shares. Unless you think increasing the national debt is a positive. Much like Obama’s Not-So-Affordable Care Act. The Cut, Cut, Cut bill will be just another break for the wealthy paid for on the back of the hardest working Americans. What’s new with DC? Different party, same result. More lies. More breaks for the wealthy. Doesn’t matter which party.

  73. 3b says:

    Lib don’t you make out with the multi?

  74. Juice Box says:

    Grim Unmod please 3:57 PM

  75. Pete says:

    I haven’t been paying much attention but I assume the tax code will be much simpler, with no loopholes, and I will be able to file on a postcard next year? Please let me know if I’m mistaken. Thanks.

  76. Fast Eddie says:

    3b,

    Go it. But what about a real time example? Anyone?

  77. Fast Eddie says:

    Go = Got

  78. Three Secret GEDs says:

    Maybe I should change my handle to Happy Renter since he hasn’t been around in a while.

    I guess we have about 100% chance that the tax plan passes tomorrow. No GOP pol wants to tank the stock market, right? If any Senator goes rogue he should be investigated to 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon to see if any friends of friends of friends went short.

  79. JCer says:

    Pete that was the idea, but the end result….same number of brackets, the AMT is in and the limit isn’t much higher than it was before, and oh they are changing the inflation metric so in the future more people will get hit by the AMT then even today. The individual side of the tax cut was basically nixed, the tax code doesn’t change too much, you lose SALT to get a higher standard deduction and a corporate tax cut.

  80. Three Secret GEDs says:

    The most important part of the tax plan is that red staters get $10-$25 more in their paycheck and the stock market doesn’t tank.

    Come next year the GOP will have 56+ Senators and Schumer and Pelosi will be forced to come up with a new narrative like Trump is colluding with extraterrestrials (“It’s a Cook Book!!!”)

  81. Comrade Nom Deplorable, surfacing for air says:

    Livingston is a tax hellhole.

    I have zero sympathy.

  82. Comrade Nom Deplorable, surfacing for air says:

    ” Pete says:
    December 18, 2017 at 4:00 pm

    I haven’t been paying much attention but I assume the tax code will be much simpler, with no loopholes, and I will be able to file on a postcard next year? Please let me know if I’m mistaken. Thanks.”

    You’re mistaken.
    You’re welcome.

  83. Comrade Nom Deplorable, surfacing for air says:

    “No state was more shortchanged by New Jersey, according to a 2015 analysis by New York State Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli. On a per person basis, New Jersey sent $2,659 more to Washington in taxes than it got back in federal spending, more than any other state.”

    Well, if it makes you feel better, this tax bill might actually help to remedy that imbalance.

    Anyone care to hazard a guess why that is?

  84. Comrade Nom Deplorable, surfacing for air says:

    This . . . .

    ” JCer says:
    December 18, 2017 at 4:19 pm

    Pete that was the idea, but the end result….same number of brackets, the AMT is in and the limit isn’t much higher than it was before, and oh they are changing the inflation metric so in the future more people will get hit by the AMT then even today. The individual side of the tax cut was basically nixed, the tax code doesn’t change too much, you lose SALT to get a higher standard deduction and a corporate tax cut.”

    JCer has educated you. On his behalf, you’re all welcome.

  85. Mike S says:

    If something like $6k – $10k is going to make people not afford their house anymore. We got bigger problems.

  86. Mike S says:

    And anyone on the upper income spectrum can probably afford the $20-$30k. Their kid will have to drive a corolla instead of a bwm.

    Still sucks by the way.

  87. grim says:

    Looking at brackets, the average person is owing about 3% less federal income tax.

  88. yome says:

    Fast

    Couple making $150,000 No KIDS

    —> Current

    $150,000- $8,100 Personal Exemption
    = $141,900 – $33,900 Deductions 12,000 Property Tax+ 10,000 Mortgage Interest+$8,900 NJ State Tax+$3,000 Charity and Misc
    = $108,000 Taxable Income
    – 9,525 — 10% = 952
    = $ 98,475
    – 38,700 — 15% = 5,805
    = $ 59,775 — 25% = 14,944 —> incomes to $93,700

    Total Tax Paid 952+5,805+14,944= $21,701

    —> Propose New Tax; No Deductions
    $150,000- $24,000 Standard Deduction
    = $126,000 Taxable Income
    – 9,525 — 10% = 952
    = $116,475
    – 38,700 — 12% = 4,644
    = $ 77,775 — 22% = 17,110

    Toatal Tax Paid 952+4,644+17,110 = $22,706 <— Paying $1,005 MORE

  89. chicagofinance says:

    Yes…..

    Mike S says:
    December 18, 2017 at 5:10 pm
    If something like $6k – $10k is going to make people not afford their house anymore. We got bigger problems.

  90. chicagofinance says:

    Also, for the people who are weeping that house prices in NJ will be negatively impacted…….you are basically just handing back the run-up from the last 18 months or so…..unless you bought in here, who give a whit, and to Mike S’s point…..if you have a real issue, you are fuct anyway……

  91. Three Secret GEDs says:

    Elections have consequences.

    <— Paying $1,005 MORE

  92. No One says:

    $150,000 puts a household in the 88th percentile of national income. And I bet most in that category have kids to deduct.
    I don’t like the tax hike. I think my taxes are going up about 1%, from about 47% combined federal plus state, to about 48%.
    But are the protests about people in the top quintile paying more taxes?
    What bugs me is that a big number of “rich” people are going to pay more taxes, yet the leftists keep saying that it’s a tax cut for the rich. It’s basically corporate tax reform, with some fairly minor individual tax changes. I haven’t seen much serious analysis of what effects the corporate tax reform might bring to the economy. Low corporate taxes definitely worked for Ireland’s economy. I haven’t seen many stories about that lately.

  93. grim says:

    Eliminate the $3k charity contributions and the difference is $250.

  94. Three Secret GEDs says:

    I have a feeling that with this tax plan Trump has no chance of winning NY, NJ, CT, MA, or CA next time around.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  95. Mike S says:

    Honestly paying $1000 more isn’t going to hurt anyone. We did get the short end of the stick though. I think vacation houses will be affected a lot more than primary residences.

  96. Three Secret GEDs says:

    Given the concentration of the media in those states, I’ll make a 2018 prediction that they turn against him too.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  97. grim says:

    NY Metro is in the top 5 nationally for the greatest number of small businesses relative to population, which basically means on a net basis, NY Metro has the highest number of small businesses in the US.

  98. 3b says:

    Mike I would argue that is exactly the point 6 to 10k more will be a problem for a lot of people.

  99. Mike S says:

    The only people who are going to get hit with 6-10k are people who already have a 200k+ income. And if that is going to derail their budget I’d argue they are living way above their means.

  100. 3b says:

    Mike Many are. Way above.

  101. abeiz says:

    I guess this SALT thing takes care of Amazon HQ2 then, eh?

  102. yome says:

    Will getting $14 more a week on a Red State worker’s pay check be enough to persuade the population that this was a good move in exchange for a $1.5 T deficit. Most Corporations are already paying the 21% after deductions. Why not just make the Corporate tax 21% and keep,everyone as is

  103. yome says:

    It did not simplify the tax code. Number of Brackets are the same.

  104. leftwing says:

    “Anyone care to hazard a guess why that is?”

    Flight of wealthy out of NJ decreases net per capita paid to DC. Ding, ding, ding, ding! What do i win?

    I’m disappointed. Shifting a few numbers here and there, zeroing out nothing. Keeping too many brackets. Would have been excited to zero out MID, SALT, charitable and drop bracket %, and drop bracket numbers to three. This is just re-arranging the yard chairs.

    “$150,000 puts a household in the 88th percentile of national income…What bugs me is that a big number of “rich” people are going to pay more taxes, yet the leftists keep saying that it’s a tax cut for the rich.”

    Everyone likes to brag about their wealth. Until it hits them in the pocketbook, then overnight everyone becomes ‘middle class’ lol.

    Real funny looking at the CBS This Morning and CNBC anchor crowds moaning and groaning on air. Sure that is playing well in Peoria.

  105. leftwing says:

    “The only people who are going to get hit with 6-10k are people who already have a 200k+ income. And if that is going to derail their budget I’d argue they are living way above their means.” “…Many are. Way above.”

    Not my problem. Actually, specifically not my problem to support some fat, mentally lazy, BMW 5 series lessor, 9-5er jackass hiding his insecurities by blowing out his family’s finances.

    Financial darwinism. Hope these people do go broke.

  106. joyce says:

    The number of brackets is the least confusing part of the tax code.

  107. 3b says:

    It’s our own fault it’s so expensive here.

  108. joyce says:

    LW,

    Agreed. I think an argument can be made that the code will be more complex. What was eliminated? Nothing as far as I can tell.

    The pass through change may prove to be a giant loophole – we’ll see.

    On the corporate side, the territorial and repatriation changes are huge if they stay in.

  109. Grim says:

    The tax code is thousands and thousands of pages.

    Reducing the number of brackets does not simplify the tax cod.

  110. jamiemuu says:

    Wow, she is one of the most beautiful girls I have seen
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmxdAu6RQtM

  111. yome says:

    I meant tax code will still be complicated. Nothing to do with number of brackets,though they could have made the number of brackets to three and mail your tax with an index card

  112. Three Secret GEDs says:

    Yes. BTW, what did they get for the $10 trillion Obama contribution to the deficit? Warm and fuzzies for helping a po’ boy live in the White House for 8 years?

    yome says:
    December 18, 2017 at 6:37 pm
    Will getting $14 more a week on a Red State worker’s pay check be enough to persuade the population that this was a good move in exchange for a $1.5 T deficit. Most Corporations are already paying the 21% after deductions. Why not just make the Corporate tax 21% and keep,everyone as is

  113. Three Secret GEDs says:

    BTW, nobody has to “persuade the population” of anything. They only have to persuade the voters in the states that previously voted for Trump. If the next lying Dem wins by 8 million votes instead of 6 million votes in CA and NY combined who really cares?

  114. Fabius Maximus says:

    This reminds me of the time Gary accused the Dems of stoking up the arguments on Womens Rights while the the GOP were pass Wanding laws in North Carolina.

    https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/942654866010361856

  115. Three Secret GEDs says:

    Anybody ever visit a new restaurant and you have one dish your first time that is so good you just can’t bring yourself to order anything else? For me it’s a Thai Place and the dish is Basil Eggplant Pork…and it is spicy! I think I’ve had it five times and nothing else yet.

  116. Fabius Maximus says:

    “$150,000 puts a household in the 88th percentile of national income. And I bet most in that category have kids to deduct.”

    Running the numbers through the calculators and that household is getting a few bucks. It seems that if you deduct you are in the lower brackets you get nothing and most of the other married two kids get 1-5K up to $150-200K.

    So I saw two numbers that stuck out in all the reporting.
    A) 75% of tax payers are getting a cut
    B) top 1% are getting 67% of the benefit.

    That makes me think that these calculators are only focusing on the Brackets and not the true impact of the whole bill on your own bottom line, once you factor the deductions you lose.
    At the end of the day to use and old term from in her. Throwing a few bucks to the majority is just “Bread and Circuses!”

  117. Fabius Maximus says:

    One problem researching Tax Law is that the authors can’t write. This guy is making a good point, badly. I assume he is one of Eddie Rays friends. (At least Tax Prof for Jesus, could communicate a point effectively).

    https://danshaviro.blogspot.com/2017/11/the-tax-arbitrage-act-of-2018.html

  118. Fabius Maximus says:

    “old term from in here”

  119. Three Secret GEDs says:

    Pumpkin bread and circuses

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