Where prices are going up in NJ. It’s not where you think.

From the Star Ledger:

The town in each county where home values are increasing most 

Get these homes while they’re hot — and in some cases — still cheap.

We’ve looked at the hottest markets in New Jersey — the places that are hitting their peak price right now. But if you’re looking for a home, you might be hunting for a bargain town near you that’s going to gain in value. Where else to start than the places that have boomed in this past year?

These real estate markets showed the greatest increase in their counties, according to Zillow data. Since there’s so much regional variation in housing markets, some of the hottest markets in a county seem pretty weak. But some are exploding in home prices. Either way, if you’re hunting for a home in your county, you might want to snatch these places up.

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Recovery, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

120 Responses to Where prices are going up in NJ. It’s not where you think.

  1. grim says:

    Paterson > Wayne
    Newark > Short Hills
    North Plainfield > Far Hills
    Plainfield > Brigadoon & Summit
    Wharton > Mendham
    Little Ferry > All of Haughty BC
    Harrison > Hoboken

  2. grim says:

    Low end is hot, and based on a few buyers I know right now, the $400-500k market is very, very, very hot.

  3. No One says:

    Subprime mortgages are back?
    Trump’s bragging about employment rising among minority groups is true?

  4. truesue says:

    anyone know anything anything about Riverton ,pretty inexpensive homes …

  5. Bystander says:

    No one,

    If Trump is breathing it, it is a lie.

  6. The Great Pumpkin says:

    If anyone has been listening to me on this blog for the past 7 years, then you would understand this. It’s demographics at play. You want to make money in real estate long term, then buy the over 800 k market. Due to the demographics, it’s a blood bath aka blood in the streets. This group is currently fighting in the 400-800 range. It will increase as they age. This was easy to see if you pay attention to demographic patterns/cycles.

    It’s the natural market reaction. The cycle for housing has been reset. The boomers have now been passed up. They no longer control the market. They had the most money, and were the biggest group in the market, hence the high end had a run up while the low end got left in the dust. Now the biggest drivers in the market are the millennials, and they are pushing up the market where they can afford. As they grow, they will make more money, and possibly inherit a huge windfall. Their time will come to push up the upper end of the market, but that time is not now.

    30 year realtor says:
    May 9, 2019 at 11:22 pm
    Wayne market over $500,000 for condos is dead! SFH market over $800,000 is dead! Prices continue to drop at the high end. All the action is in mid and low priced housing.

    I have a high priced townhouse in Wayne that is languishing on the market. Price is marginally above the most recent model match unit and my unit is all new inside. Only 2 showings in 45 days on market. The market is like a black hole.

  7. grim says:

    I woud never recommend anyone buy a condo or townhouse in a NJ suburb above $500k.

    That’s just nuts.

  8. chicagofinance says:

    My sister-in-law is an elementary school teacher there……. what do you want to know? It’s fine. Not good, not bad. South Jersey is very hit and miss. The nice places are the same as up here, but there is less smoothing and uniformity across the landscape. The pay scale dramatically drops off, so below the upper middle class, the next tier appears much less expensive.

    truesue says:
    May 10, 2019 at 7:58 am
    anyone know anything anything about Riverton ,pretty inexpensive homes …

  9. grim says:

    The value of NJ real estate is the dirt, not the structure. In both the condo case, and the townhouse case, you don’t really own much of the dirt.

    I’m talking suburb. Urban markets are another story entirely.

  10. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Jesus, how long have I been saying this on this blog. SPILLOVER. Market searches for value relative to the areas that have already run up in pricing. It was obvious when jc and hoboken went up to their price levels that the natural market reaction would be to eventually seek out value. That’s why I stand by my call with Wayne being one of the best values out there….it won’t last much longer. It did not see much appreciation in 10 years, while other areas jumped in value, and you think this will continue?

    Give me all the franklin lakes properties one could afford. You can’t lose on current pricing. Maybe in the short term, but you will not lose long term. Short term is for gamblers, long term is for real investors.

    “We’ve looked at the hottest markets in New Jersey — the places that are hitting their peak price right now. But if you’re looking for a home, you might be hunting for a bargain town near you that’s going to gain in value. Where else to start than the places that have boomed in this past year?”

  11. truesue says:

    Thank you ,schools avg…with a little above blue collar residency …I see a nice Victorian completed renovated I’m going to bid on …

  12. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Pretty soon Nimfy’s house will be right in the sweet spot.

    Low end is hot, and based on a few buyers I know right now, the $400-500k market is very, very, very hot.

  13. The Great Pumpkin says:

    lol…yup, it’s coming.

    If I was into making money off my personal home, I would sell in a year (two max). I would be selling into a super hot market in my home’s price range. Take that, and buy into the cold/dead high end where I will be able to fish a deal. Sit and wait for the market to come back to that tier and sell. Like taking candy from a baby. Just have to have patience, time, and the capital to be put to work.

    The Original NJ ExPat says:
    May 10, 2019 at 9:03 am
    Pretty soon Nimfy’s house will be right in the sweet spot.

    Low end is hot, and based on a few buyers I know right now, the $400-500k market is very, very, very hot.

  14. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    So Nimfy – According to the below, you would sell the home you don’t have right now, and use the proceeds to buy the home you already have? That’s a head scratcher.

    Maybe you don’t understand the market you live in? Here’s what Zillow says:
    The median home value in Wayne is $441,000. Wayne home values have gone up 0.0% over the past year and Zillow predicts they will rise 0.1% within the next year. The median list price per square foot in Wayne is $223, which is lower than the New York-Newark-Jersey City Metro average of $281. The median price of homes currently listed in Wayne is $499,000 while the median price of homes that sold is $436,200.

    If I was into making money off my personal home, I would sell in a year (two max). I would be selling into a super hot market in my home’s price range. Take that, and buy into the cold/dead high end where I will be able to fish a deal.

  15. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Nimfy – just so we can help you maybe unwind your delusion, at what price would you list your house with the Ping Pong Highway frontage for today? The experts here can help tell you if you are sane are not, now that you’ve decided to volunteer your exact address. My guess is that the right price is exactly what you bought it for in 2011.

  16. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Heard on the radio this morning that jc was getting rid of 300 teacher jobs. Shouldn’t be any fat left to cut after this.

    https://www.nj.com/passaic-county/2019/05/166-teachers-will-be-losing-their-jobs-in-this-nj-city-their-union-leader-wants-to-sue-the-state.html

  17. Juice Box says:

    All real estate is local…, Real property must remain exactly where it is, it cannot be moved. You cannot move Wayne any closer to Manhattan and that is why it will never be (Hoboken) any better than it is today. The jobs in the leafy suburbs are no longer there, just look at all those empty office buildings that remain with their empty weed filled parking lots. How many medium and large companies have gone bust or moved their jobs out of the leafy suburbs of NJ. How many Toys R Us are out there? Less children as Grim says is the death nell for any town. There are also what now 10 nursing homes in Wayne? The Smiths, The Millers, The Johnsons are all dying off. No more Johns ,Marys,Josephs, Annas, Williams, Margarets, and Franks being born in town. The surrounding town folk from Paterson, Haledon, Prospect Park are all moving on up…

    Is this the future for Wayne?

    https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x89c2fd9bee74dbcf:0x23192215d05ebf33!2m22!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e115!4s//geo3.ggpht.com/cbk?panoid%3DZNrYSUO2ZFl02Hb5qjTkTA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.LOCAL_UNIVERSAL.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D520%26h%3D175%26yaw%3D300.60443%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!5swayne+nj+mosque+-+Google+Search&imagekey=!1e2!2sZNrYSUO2ZFl02Hb5qjTkTA

  18. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Nimfy – we all know you bought your house for $650K in 2011. Zillow has it at $688K right now, projecting the price to rise by 0.1% by next year. Of course Zillow doesn’t factor in the Chinese restaurant franchise that will be built into Ping Pong HQ across the street. Your going to be hungry all the time if you leave your windows open.

  19. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Panda Ping Pong Express?

  20. The Great Pumpkin says:

    If ping pong comes….I’m going to have to sell for 600k. Right now, I will not sell for less than 700k.

    The Original NJ ExPat says:
    May 10, 2019 at 9:19 am
    Nimfy – just so we can help you maybe unwind your delusion, at what price would you list your house with the Ping Pong Highway frontage for today? The experts here can help tell you if you are sane are not, now that you’ve decided to volunteer your exact address. My guess is that the right price is exactly what you bought it for in 2011.

  21. grim says:

    Wayne’s republican leadership is smarter than 99% of other towns.

    Commercial and Industrial rateables are key. Wayne is brilliant in this respect. Unlike other towns that have gone completely anti-industrial – not the case in Wayne.

    Wayne continues to attract new businesses, new buildings, new commercial, new industrial. Diversification of revenue base, diversification of jobs.

  22. Juice Box says:

    Pumps – put out the sign today at $700k. That is the true test. It’s spring you should get a least 10 bids by next week over ask right?

  23. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Of course, Wayne will never be Hoboken and why would it? I could have lived in Hoboken, but chose wayne. Why the hell would I want to pay that much money to live in Hoboken? For the commute? I happen to like a commute. It doesn’t bother me. I like the time to myself.

    Jobs are still there. I don’t buy the nonsense that all jobs are leaving. People need jobs. You can’t just eliminate every single job from said location, it doesn’t work like that. I don’t know anybody right now that has a problem finding a job in northern nj. NOT ONE. So I don’t believe the fear mongering.

    Juice Box says:
    May 10, 2019 at 9:25 am
    All real estate is local…, Real property must remain exactly where it is, it cannot be moved. You cannot move Wayne any closer to Manhattan and that is why it will never be (Hoboken) any better than it is today. The jobs in the leafy suburbs are no longer there, just look at all those empty office buildings that remain with their empty weed filled parking lots. How many medium and large companies have gone bust or moved their jobs out of the leafy suburbs of NJ. How many Toys R Us are out there? Less children as Grim says is the death nell for any town. There are also what now 10 nursing homes in Wayne? The Smiths, The Millers, The Johnsons are all dying off. No more Johns ,Marys,Josephs, Annas, Williams, Margarets, and Franks being born in town. The surrounding town folk from Paterson, Haledon, Prospect Park are all moving on up…

    Is this the future for Wayne?

    https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x89c2fd9bee74dbcf:0x23192215d05ebf33!2m22!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e115!4s//geo3.ggpht.com/cbk?panoid%3DZNrYSUO2ZFl02Hb5qjTkTA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.LOCAL_UNIVERSAL.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D520%26h%3D175%26yaw%3D300.60443%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!5swayne+nj+mosque+-+Google+Search&imagekey=!1e2!2sZNrYSUO2ZFl02Hb5qjTkTA

  24. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Nimfy – Who are you going to list with? Or is one of your mystery degrees a Masters in FSBO?

  25. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    One of Nimfy’s greatest calls in RE: buying a house 8 years ago that even he thinks can only be listed at his purchase price plus 3 years of property tax payments. He’s the Donald Trump of the Wayne high end market.

  26. Bystander says:

    “buy the over 800 k market”

    Yet, Mr. “Retire at 40” could even come close to this purchase price. Own it that you fell in love with a house, not all your genius analysis pointed to Wayne. Keep dreaming that people coming up will be running to 800k and above. Not happening in suburbia. The Honeywells move out, replaced by ping pong facilities. Globalization will see that economic gains are not shared with Americans therefore previous economic models need not apply.

  27. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Turn key CHC on a large piece of land with woods in the back and woods in the front. Open floor plan. No cheap materials used. Finished walkout basement that does not feel at all like a basement as it has windows lining the wall. Nothing, but the driveway needs to be done. How many homes do you know that fit this description in commuting distance to nyc?

    With the sq footage of the basement, you get a home with over 4,000 sq ft, all wood floors throughout including basement, for 700k. I dare you to try and find a better deal. Forgot to mention all the added closet space…it’s awesome!

    Juice Box says:
    May 10, 2019 at 9:34 am
    Pumps – put out the sign today at $700k. That is the true test. It’s spring you should get a least 10 bids by next week over ask right?

  28. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Again, I didn’t purchase as an investment. I purchased a house I loved and that worked for me. Long term, I’m not worried about appreciation. Has appreciation taking longer to hit wayne than I expected….sure, but not by much. Stop living in the now and understand real estate is a long term game. Wayne will be fine long term, stop lying to yourself. It’s a highly desirable town whether you realize it or not.

    The Original NJ ExPat says:
    May 10, 2019 at 9:49 am
    One of Nimfy’s greatest calls in RE: buying a house 8 years ago that even he thinks can only be listed at his purchase price plus 3 years of property tax payments. He’s the Donald Trump of the Wayne high end market.

  29. Juice Box says:

    Pumps – all talk? Put the shingle out. FSBO you don’t even need to sign a contract.

    A bunch of your neighbors are doing it right now, trying to get out of dodge with a 2005 price.

    https://www.zillow.com/homes/fsbo/

  30. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Turn key CHC on a large piece of land with woods in the back and woods Ping Pong HQ in the front.

  31. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Nimfy – try the previous owners scam. Tell prospective buyers that you are getting a divorce, that’s why you have to let this “Turn key CHC” go for a song. Tell them you own the 10 acres across the street, that you bought it with your trust fund money to conserve the environment.

  32. The Great Pumpkin says:

    The 800k and above market will return. You can’t honestly think it’s done for good? All of a sudden, everyone is going to be living in 400k homes in the future? What makes them different from the wants of previous generations? The high end will return with time, not anytime soon, but it will return.

    Seriously, do you envision an America that is poor in 10-20 years? What makes you come to the conclusion you draw upon? I just don’t see any chance of it.

    “Keep dreaming that people coming up will be running to 800k and above. Not happening in suburbia. The Honeywells move out, replaced by ping pong facilities. Globalization will see that economic gains are not shared with Americans therefore previous economic models need not apply.”

  33. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And ping pong is not coming to my road….

    If it does, it’s a simple move. I sell, understand I was screwed over by my town government, and move on. Can’t dwell on it, can only move on.

  34. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Oooh, ooh, ooh! Try to do showings just on Sunday and use that other lie of yours. “Traffic? No, just for about an hour on Sunday. White people only, coming back from church. The rest of the week kids play whiffle ball and ride bikes on the highway, I mean road. All the rest of the roads are cul-de-sacs, so it’s only local traffic and they are parents themselves. They drive very slow because they know all the kids will be out playing.”

  35. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    You’ll stop them with one of your three degrees. If the fight gets tough, just pull out one of your other degrees and you’ll still have a spare.

    And ping pong is not coming to my road commercially zoned highway….

  36. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    That shouldn’t matter to you. We’ve established that.

    The 800k and above market will return.

  37. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Yep. About the same amount of high paying white collar jobs in each. Maybe they’ll turn Toys’R’Us into section 8 housing.

    The Honeywells move out, replaced by ping pong facilities.

  38. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “California’s Rent Control Advocates Are About To Get What They Want, Good and Hard
    Everywhere rent control is tried, the same things happen. Landlords exit the market. Developers stop building apartments. Supply drops significantly.”

    https://reason.com/2019/05/10/californias-rent-control-advocates-are-about-to-get-what-they-want-good-and-hard/

  39. JCer says:

    Pumps, high end NJ residential will bounce back but it will be focused on NYC commutable areas and will be tied to banking jobs not being in contraction. What Bystander is seeing has placed fear, people are afraid to stretch to a million or more with job uncertainty.

    The office parks are dead and I don’t think they are coming back. The decline in Franklin Lakes I attribute to this, a large portion of the residents in Franklin Lakes historically were working in NJ, they were the execs. As HQ’s disappear from Jersey, the demand for high end housing in towns without a quick NYC commute declines.

    My BIL is an exec at a company, and he and a lot of the other execs from his company live in the same town out in suburban Morris county. Guess what the company is moving their office to Newark, not going to be good for the pricing where they live as the execs are currently 15 minutes from the office and Newark pushes that commute to an hour at rush hour.

  40. Bystander says:

    Dufus,

    We have spent over 15 trillion since 2008 to prop up the global economy but really it was about putting a floor under asset prices Now, 11 years later, that floor in suburban NJ/CT/NY is still dropping at high end. What does that tell you? You think millennials buyers are just around corner with $1m in hand? It is a farce. Businesses in this area have complete control over labor market. Short another major credit bubble, there is no push hire to American worker. Executives are not stupid. If you pay 200 per day to guy in India while same guy in NYC costs 800 then keeping guy in India happier with 3% raise in far cheaper. Extrapolate to thousands of people across all divisions and you can see impact of globalization. Now, keep a smaller agile space and some business staff in suburban NJ with 15m -30m commute and you will have plethora of talent available. Give them little to no raise or bonus and they will eat that shit. Why? Because other option is to hightail into NYC with 1-2hr commute for not much more money when transit costs and city prices suck you dry. Add that NJ is filled to the brim with desperate H1b and you have no conditions for high end suburbia to improve. Good conditions for lower end or quick NYC urban commute.

  41. Juice Box says:

    The Toys R Us campus was sold for a paltry $19 million pristine 200 acres, it is going to be converted into a multiple-use center.

    Pumps head will explode when he finds out what that is, remember Toys R Us bought that land in 2003 for $35 million. The massive loss means no demand for leafy lakefront corporate office space full of file cabinets and secretary spread.

  42. GdBlsU45 says:

    Cali has decided that middle school is too late to start indoctrinating children on hom0s3xuality and tr@nsgenderism. They are now starting in kindergarten, Murphy has obligates that nj schools start in 4th grade. How long before Murphy moves it up to 5 year olds?

  43. GdBlsU45 says:

    Lol@ ping pong mega center being built across the road from pumpkins depreciating albatross.

    How’s that east of 287 overcrowding working for you now you schmuck? You can’t sell now, that lot will be developed now and anyone buying will know it. Maybe you can recoup some of your loss by allowing tour buses from china town to park in your driveway.

  44. JCer says:

    Bystander you see the trend as permanent I think you are wrong, what I see is banking revenues are being squeezed, there isn’t as big a pie anymore and banks are looking to maintain profits by cutting operating expenses. It doesn’t work, 200 a day in India is mythological. The number of people needed balloons, efficiency drops like a rock and that is why H1B is the go to. Yes you can leverage some offshore but the reality is the savings never materialize and you’ll see a push to bring back staff after the execs give themselves a bonus for “saving so much money”. The bigger effect has been essentially freezing US worker salaries.

  45. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Jcer,

    Everything you state makes absolute sense and I agree with it.

    I just take the position that northern nj will continue to serve as an important economy due to its location and strong educated/skilled workforce. Plus, a ton of money concentrated in this area. I expect the density to increase in the poor and lower-middle-class areas, while the upper middle class/wealthy areas to remain tree-lined single-family housing. Rich people are not giving up their lifestyle, the poor and lower middle class will.

    For example, I will not live in an apartment type setting in the next 20 years. No way, no how. Maybe after 20 years, I will retire and then choose to live in an apartment type setting, but most likely not. I’m a house guy. I love me some center hall colonial combined with a beautiful lawn. Love the feeling of pulling into my driveway after a long day of work and falling in love with my lawn and home all over again. I choose to take care of my own lawn, it’s a hobby to me, I get a lot of satisfaction from the end result of the hard work.

    At the end of the day, we all work hard. Life has its ups and downs, and it helps to have things in your life that tell you it’s all worth it. For me, coming home to a well kept beautiful home that my family gets to enjoy justifies all the hard work. It’s the ultimate symbol that you didn’t waste your life away being a lazy pos.

  46. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Paying a million to come home to an apartment is cool for some, but just not for me. Different strokes for different folks. City is cool to explore and visit, but I’m not down with the daily grind for personal space. Everything is a competition. From parking spots, to traffic, to people everywhere. I need a break from that sometimes. No way I choose to raise my child in that environment. Again, some people love it, I’m just saying it’s not for me.

  47. The Great Pumpkin says:

    It’s not passing….it has no chance for obvious reasons. If they build residential, more power to them, but they are not getting this passed as commercial. Wayne doesn’t mess around, and with this outcry, no chance in hell.

    GdBlsU45 says:
    May 10, 2019 at 11:08 am
    Lol@ ping pong mega center being built across the road from pumpkins depreciating albatross.

    How’s that east of 287 overcrowding working for you now you schmuck? You can’t sell now, that lot will be developed now and anyone buying will know it. Maybe you can recoup some of your loss by allowing tour buses from china town to park in your driveway.

  48. Bystander says:

    JCer,

    Not saying it is permanent, nor that inefficiencies present with outsourcing model are not real. I have heard these arguments for many years and it is not changing yet. Blumpkin dismisses the impact. It could take a decade or more to repatriate these jobs..and perhaps it will not happen at all. It will take political change nit business change. There are no assurance yet Blumpy thinks uptick is imminent.

  49. Bystander says:

    “For me, coming home to a well kept beautiful home that my family gets to enjoy justifies all the hard work”

    Good point. Your loss could be much larger when you sell for 100k less. How much have you invested as a bagholder?

  50. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Bystander,

    Do you think America will still be a leading economy in 20 years? If not, why?

    Since America will still be a leading economy, how will they do this without good jobs?

    Use logic here instead of relying on fear. Conn will eventually come back too, it’s inevitable. Don’t take the negatives of today and think they will last forever or be a permanent trend. The permanent trend is America continues to grow and be an economic powerhouse. Economy is beyond strong right now. Best in a very very long time. It’s f’ing insane how stable it is. Who cares if you don’t have extreme growth rates, you want stable long-term growth which is exactly what we are experiencing. Everyone is looking for bubbles, but I just don’t see it. This is the healthiest economy of my life.

    At the end of the day, nj is a huge contributor to the national economy and I expect that to continue. Look at the old hoffman la rouche site, looks what’s happening. It takes time, but nj reinvents itself. You can’t tell me nj isn’t better off than it was in 1990. All the major dumps have turned around. Camden is so much better. JC and Hoboken is night and day. Newark is even better than it was. Clifton has improved since the 90’s. Passaic has improved since the 90’s. Open up your eyes, nj is not dying.

  51. D-FENS says:

    Donald Trump – “Listen you mother******s, we’re gonna tax you 25%.”
    Circa 2011
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN7KHWdyrbI

  52. Joe says:

    “The 800k and above market will return.”

    You can’t deduct interest on a home purchase over 750 anymore.

  53. Bystander says:

    “A leading economy”, why not say “the leading economy”? If you accept China will be the major competition then accept that American lifestyle will take a hit. The economy is not so strong “it is f’in insane”. It has strengthened at lowest segments and highest segments. The middle is basically treading water. Why are economists so perplexed at slow wages and lack of core inflation? Let me guess, it is coming this year then everyone gets rich and buys 800k house in Wayne. You are the one suffering from short term outlook. I see slow and stagnant for generation. We need another credit bubble to drive labor and prices up. Fed has no bullets and rates can’t be raised or “the strongest economy ever” collapses. See Nov and Dec..

  54. PumpkinFace says:

    Bystander,

    Anything you say comes from winging it… anything he says is based on his well-honed critical thinking abilities. Logic! Logic!!

  55. D-FENS says:

    Why is that? Perhaps the federal tax changes including the $10k SALT cap?

    grim says:
    May 10, 2019 at 7:29 am
    Low end is hot, and based on a few buyers I know right now, the $400-500k market is very, very, very hot.

  56. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Impact of demographic buying blocs. That’s where the largest buying bloc is currently working its way through the market system. Aka it’s where the competition is. Has nothing to do with salt cap, absolutely nothing. It’s just the market at work doing what it is supposed to do.

    I don’t know what town in nj, but a high school friend just bought his first home in a suburban nj town in that exact price range. I told you this would happen years ago when people thought the burbs were dead, they just don’t understand how markets work and how cycles/demographics impact it.

    I’m just an avg joe, but I understand this well. Evidence- I have consistently been on point with my long term calls on the economy, labor market, and housing market. FACTS. Inflation I’m still getting wrong, but it will come, it’s inevitable. When inflation makes a roaring comeback, that’s when the show is almost over, and the bust will be close. Low controlled inflation in a period of growth is unheard of and hints to how strong this economy really is. It’s not overproducing (overheating), it’s timid controlled growth, and people are crying about this? This is a dream come true.

    D-FENS says:
    May 10, 2019 at 12:30 pm
    Why is that? Perhaps the federal tax changes including the $10k SALT cap?

  57. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Nimfy is so deranged that he thinks he lives in the best neighborhood in Glen Rock and there are two train lines a block away. He’s not woke to the fact that he lives far away from NYC on a double yellow county road. With the Asian table tennis stars setting up shop across the street, does his highway now become a triple yellow?

    Dufus,

    We have spent over 15 trillion since 2008 to prop up the global economy but really it was about putting a floor under asset prices Now, 11 years later, that floor in suburban NJ/CT/NY is still dropping at high end. What does that tell you? You think millennials buyers are just around corner with $1m in hand? It is a farce. Businesses in this area have complete control over labor market. Short another major credit bubble, there is no push hire to American worker. Executives are not stupid. If you pay 200 per day to guy in India while same guy in NYC costs 800 then keeping guy in India happier with 3% raise in far cheaper. Extrapolate to thousands of people across all divisions and you can see impact of globalization. Now, keep a smaller agile space and some business staff in suburban NJ with 15m -30m commute and you will have plethora of talent available. Give them little to no raise or bonus and they will eat that shit. Why? Because other option is to hightail into NYC with 1-2hr commute for not much more money when transit costs and city prices suck you dry. Add that NJ is filled to the brim with desperate H1b and you have no conditions for high end suburbia to improve. Good conditions for lower end or quick NYC urban commute.

  58. grim says:

    I spent weeks in the Toys R Us buildings.

    While they were renovated, they are dated in layout and structure, they are old school layouts and would need to be gutted, or demolished.

    Terrace building has a very cool midcentury vibe to it. The big building has a beautiful view of the reservoir.

    The mock-store must have cost a fortune to build, but it’s worthless.

    Where did you find the details? What portion of debt was assumed with the sale?

    The TRU campus is an incredibly beautiful piece of property, the views are fantastic. Reminded me of Kraft in Tarrytown, another incredible site.

    If it sold at $19m, no debt, it’s a fantastic deal for the new buyer. They picked up a gem at closeout prices.

    Wayne is going to be fairly open in the redevelopment, the major was clear about that. So it’ll be interesting to see what they do.

    It still has an active heliport, they would be crazy to give that up.

  59. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I feel compelled to conjure up a JJ-esque story about secretaries spread on top of file cabinets after happy hour ended at closing time near work.

    Pumps head will explode when he finds out what that is, remember Toys R Us bought that land in 2003 for $35 million. The massive loss means no demand for leafy lakefront corporate office space full of file cabinets and secretary spread.

  60. The Great Pumpkin says:

    When has the economy been this stable in your life? When have you seen people making wrong calls about a recession coming year after year on the simple basis this run is “long in the tooth?” Understand how important stability is for long term growth, and we have it. Unbelievable when you think about it.

    What’s crazy, people fail to realize how good the economy really is. It’s probably a good thing that people are behaving so cautiously because euphoria would heat this up and kill it. Greed would take over, lead to overproduction, and kill this train. So this excessive negativity and caution in the population in reaction to the economy is a positive trend. It’s leading to a controlled stable healthy growth in the economy.

    Maybe, I’m full of it, and know nothing, but I think it’s becoming obvious that I am onto something.

  61. grim says:

    JJ would be proud, thank you for that.

  62. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Don’t laugh! I saw a story less than a year ago, leafy MD or VA suburbs, IIRC. The schools were not only accepting kindergartners choice to change genders, they were also conferencing at school and making their own autocratic determinations as to whether or not they should tell parents that they were now treating said child and keeping records as if the child had already gone through gender reassignment surgery. Yeah I’m talking about 5 year olds! Probably a place like this:

    https://thefederalist.com/2019/03/18/va-public-school-indoctrinates-5-year-olds-transgenderism-without-telling-parents/

    Cali has decided that middle school is too late to start indoctrinating children on hom0s3xuality and tr@nsgenderism. They are now starting in kindergarten, Murphy has obligates that nj schools start in 4th grade. How long before Murphy moves it up to 5 year olds?

  63. grim says:

    Yes you can leverage some offshore but the reality is the savings never materialize and you’ll see a push to bring back staff after the execs give themselves a bonus for “saving so much money”. The bigger effect has been essentially freezing US worker salaries.

    US companies are no longer outsourcing to US, this will never come back to the US. There are no frozen salaries at the lower end, it’s increasing dramatically.

    US wage pressures on the low end are now astronomical, and the push to higher minimum wage is having a material impact on the cost of on-shore outsourcing.

    Nearshore is currently the hottest thing going. Colombia, Panama, Nicaragua, Mexico, etc. You can get amazing quality resources out of Nicaragua at a cost significantly lower than the US.

    India is actually seeing a bit of a resurgence as the Philippines is becoming a very crowded place to outsource. Current leadership didn’t live through India 1.0 outsourcing, so they aren’t tainted by the first wave of bad experiences.

  64. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I call bs. It’s a natural reaction by the market to demographic buying blocs. Why would millennials be buying these homes in their 30s? Did boomers do that? If boomers couldn’t why would you expect millennials in their 30’s to all be rushing to the high end?

    I’m one of the most successful millennials I know, and if I can’t afford that, why would others not doing as well as myself be in the position to buy it? I can afford a million or more now, but I’m almost 40 which is the natural progression of when people can start to move up and afford the million dollar market. When majority of millennials are 45 or higher, you will see the return of the high end market. I promise you. At the same time, the demand for apartments and starter homes will be dead at this point in the cycle.

    “We have spent over 15 trillion since 2008 to prop up the global economy but really it was about putting a floor under asset prices Now, 11 years later, that floor in suburban NJ/CT/NY is still dropping at high end. What does that tell you? You think millennials buyers are just around corner with $1m in hand? It is a farce. Businesses in this area have complete control over labor market. “

  65. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Correcting your spelling Nimfy. No need to thank me.

    Maybe, I’m full of it, and know nothing, but I think it’s becoming obvious that I am onto something.

  66. grim says:

    Most companies that have gone off-shore, will find it nearly impossible to repatriate that work back the US without major subsidies.

    Typical off-shore company would face a fully burdened price increase of more than 3x to repatriate jobs, this is at the current wage rates.

    If your off-shore business costs you $1m to run, your on-shore will cost $3m, in a low cost market, and probably closer to $4-5m in a high cost market (NJ/NY/CT/CA, etc).

  67. Bystander says:

    Pface,

    At least, I admit I am winging it. The truth is always on the ground somewhere. Each of us has a small piece. Our truths combine to make whole truth. I have a large family with six kids (all 41-51), spouses, children and elderly parents. We run the gamut from elite hedge funds to stay home moms. All college educated. Some with kids, some not. Some work for European companies, most US. My mother was immigrant. Some govt workers, one rich charity worker and some private sector workers plus one unemployed (chronic). DC, CT, PA,FL mostly. My father ran marine manufacturing in Engelwood for decades. It is not in all theories or models to me. I see a great cross section intimately, not bs stats. I will take my knowledge over Dufus. Dufus copies and pastes others articles showing how smart he is and how economists have it all figurerd out.

  68. grim says:

    I busted my balls to keep the damn Giraffe alive, btw.

    Was no saving that ship.

  69. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I had no idea you were that antisocial. Then again, I’ve seen your twitter and facebook pages.

    I’m one of the most successful millennials I know

  70. 3b says:

    If as we are told by some that millenials are starting to buy houses in the 400 to 500k range now in their 30s why would they then want to buy an 800k home in the future when they are in their 40s and perhaps 50s. Makes no sense to me. Plus with a declining birth rate and people having one or two kids or even one and done there is no need for the 800k 4 bed 2.5 bath colonial.

  71. 3b says:

    Montvale traffic is light now according to my wife who works there in one of the office parks. Lots of companies including Mercedes Benz have left and her building has a lot of available space.

  72. The Great Pumpkin says:

    3b,

    It’s human nature. You always want more and more. Why have houses been increasing in size over time? Plus, their families get bigger. Most are having at least two kids from what I’m seeing.

  73. 3b says:

    A house came on recently in my town closed at 565k back in 2005 everybody was buzzing about it. 3bed 2bath. Well maintained but nothing special. It’s now on the market for 449k. Not a foreclosure or short sale. That has to hurt!!

  74. The Great Pumpkin says:

    3b,

    Don’t forget, those bubbles prices were an anomaly. They were not real. Once you understand this, the market will start to make more sense to you.

  75. Bystander says:

    “bubbles prices were an anomaly. They were not real.”

    Blumpkin,

    You are absolutely f*ll of shit. Realize that you have people with sharp minds and great memories on this blog. You have consistently belittled the intelligence here. Did you not always argue that you can’t overpay as it is always market price and banks won’t let you overpay bc of appraisal process? Ignoring you, except to make fun of you as unusal.

  76. Mike S says:

    I’m an older ‘millennial’ – i live in a 400-500k house in Essex Co… no plans of moving into something more expensive unless im taking in 350K+ yr and can hire all the help required to keep it up to date/clean/landscaped/etc…

    No way in hell I am paying 18K taxes to live in Kinnelon with a 1.5 hr commute

  77. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yes, it’s impossible to overpay based on the current knowledge of the market. Were appraisers supposed to know at the time that the market was artificially inflated? Come on, you are not being fair.

    The only way you can overpay in the current market is by paying cash and spending what you want. If you are getting a mortgage, it’s impossible to overpay. You think a bank is going to back a mortgage because you want to overpay? Maybe they will let you get away with a little wiggle room, but they are not letting you overpay if they are lending the money.

  78. Bystander says:

    No idea why I asterisked full, hah.

    Mike S,

    Cheers. Exactly. The move up buyer mentality is dead. I have third of acre, pool, 2100 sq ft, 4 BD 3Ba..and kid starting KG in great CT school district. Pristine condition which I paid 575k with 9k taxes and 3.5 30 year rate. I am in this house til I get the f* out.

  79. leftwing says:

    NIMFY, lol.

    DFENS, that’s a funny video.

  80. Bystander says:

    While CT politics, spending, economy and traffic blow…I love no county government and no county police. Honestly, the difference between NJ policing and CT policing feels like gestapo vs. Barney Fife. It makes a difference..really.

  81. Bystander says:

    I have seen articles stating that CT economy is lagging bc we have no county govt driving business. If Fairfield County ever tried to establish that boondoggle layer, I will be out of here faster than a Polish dunce chasing ping pong balls on his yard.

  82. chicagofinance says:

    Be careful….. my in-laws bought in Moorestown in 2004. I think the market is still about 20% below that level, and that does not withstand comps generated after the Trump tax cuts and the SALT limitation impact.

    truesue says:
    May 10, 2019 at 9:00 am
    Thank you ,schools avg…with a little above blue collar residency …I see a nice Victorian completed renovated I’m going to bid on …

  83. chicagofinance says:

    truesue: remember that you are poking around second tier NJ Philly suburbs; Philly has a strong bias toward PA.

  84. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Nimfy – Maybe the Table Tennis emporium will have cheap after school child care. Oh…never mind. Your street is too dangerous for your daughter to cross the street.

  85. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I think the highway house bubble popped around the end of 2011. I wonder who the last fool in was?

    Don’t forget, those bubbles prices were an anomaly. They were not real. Once you understand this, the market will start to make more sense to you.

  86. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Understand between 5-10% of the millennials households will soon be making this. If they can easily afford the next tier of housing, you don’t think they will act on it? Don’t say that they won’t, because I’m already very close to that household income.

    Think about it, based on a lifetime of earnings, 300-400 k is a drop in the bucket. Why are you going to live in the 400k house when you can have your dream house for 400k more? You only get one shot at the life you want to live…

    Mike S says:
    May 10, 2019 at 1:54 pm
    I’m an older ‘millennial’ – i live in a 400-500k house in Essex Co… no plans of moving into something more expensive unless im taking in 350K+ yr and can hire all the help required to keep it up to date/clean/landscaped/etc…

    No way in hell I am paying 18K taxes to live in Kinnelon with a 1.5 hr commute

  87. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “Don’t say they won’t” was in reference to household income. They are getting close, but at least a 10 years away I would think.

  88. Joe says:

    Buy now or be forever priced out of the market.

  89. allottaPhagina says:

    Heloc everything and put it all in Uber!

  90. Yo! says:

    Wow! Super to see njrereport talking NJ real estate again.

    Toys redevelopment will be tough even if it is beautiful with views, an easy standard to achieve in Passaic County, but nothing really special about that land.

    Nobody noticed but Merck HQ in Hunterdon cost $500 million to do in 90s and it sold last year for $25 million. That’s 2 million square feet of office space on 1,000 acres of land. Using that comp what is Toys Wayne real estate worth?

  91. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Learn that one from your Dad, Nimfy?

    You only get one shot at the life you want to live…

  92. 3b says:

    I know someone selling in Hunterdon Co they were told they should expect to get no more than they paid for it 17 years ago if that. And they made a lot of improvements
    As well. No one wants to do that commute to NYC and all the companies out there are gone. It’s a different world.

  93. Bystander says:

    Pat,

    “Okay, here’s the story. I come from the gutter. I know that. I got no education but that’s okay. I know the street, and I’m making all the right connections. With granny’s house, there’s no stopping me. I could go right to the top”
    – Blumpy’s Dad

  94. Bystander says:

    Oops, forgot to close it. You get it.

  95. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    ^^^ LOL. I hate when I screw up my HTML too.

    Nimfy – HTML is a the use of a special coding technique only taught to HS graduates.

    How To Mock Lsers . It’s kind of like a ghetto version of Skull and Bones.

  96. grim says:

    Nobody noticed but Merck HQ in Hunterdon cost $500 million to do in 90s and it sold last year for $25 million. That’s 2 million square feet of office space on 1,000 acres of land. Using that comp what is Toys Wayne real estate worth?

    50 times more?

    What’s it matter what it cost new? After 25 years, it’s fully depreciated. Doesn’t matter if it’s worth zero, because they got $500 million in tax benefit for it.

    It’s like $500 million in Trump losses.

  97. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I just thought of a JJ scheme. Buy a classic car for your business. Sell it (cash) for a profit after you’ve fully depreciated it. I wonder how many Barrett-Jackson bidders do exactly that? How granular are business records? Could you possibly have a crap-ass 1970 El Camino AND a frame-off restored numbers matching big block 1970 El Camino SS and the high dollar one gets bought for the business, but then…

  98. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    ^^^BTW, that was explicitly a scheme that JJ put forward. He didn’t extend it with the second car though.

  99. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “In response to O’Neill’s 1975 article in CoEvolution Quarterly about space colonies, poet Wendell Berry wrote that thousands of years of human history was being ignored. “Humans are destructive in proportion to their supposition of abundance; if they are faced with an infinite abundance, then they will become infinitely destructive.”

    Bezos didn’t make any mention of the destructive power of humanity but Globus concedes that this a honest sentiment. “We only know of one space faring species. That’s us,” says Globus, “And we are nasty motherf*****rs.”

    While we could one day change where we live, there’s one thing that can not be changed-and that’s human nature.”

    https://apple.news/A3f7E0NhHTCWcrHxJi4qsWA

  100. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Average 401k balance is up 466% when dividends factored in since market bottom in 09’

  101. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Yep. That was the smart place to put your money. Wayne RE? Not so much.

    No matter, highway houses will come back by 2050.

    Average 401k balance is up 466% when dividends factored in since market bottom in 09’

  102. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Amen!! Makes absolutely no sense. What a waste of time spent making it. All a waste of time because you simply did not use it or need it. So you wasted precious time on nothing. Pure stupidity. Hey everybody, I’m a millionaire, but I live like I’m poor. 👍🏻

    “Every time I hear about somebody that has millions and millions but they lived a frugal life, I go, ‘Why? Have some fun’ ”

    https://apple.news/ARAP5yTBsT_6hhZrB1QCr9A

  103. ExEssex says:

    Frugality is something my Depression-era grandmother understood.

  104. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    You have to have a spending goal for retirement. Mine is to spend $30K per month, every month. That’s total. Everything from living expenses to charity and gifts and good times. I’ll have $30K come down from my investment account to my checking account on the 1st of each month and my full time job will be to get it all spent before the end of the month. How would you like to be my friend at the end of the month if I’m behind on my “work”?

  105. homeboken says:

    ExPat – That’s an ambitious spend but more power to you. Given your goal are you on track? How many more, if any, years will you work?

    I’m just curious, I’ve never heard retirement goals laid out with a monthly spend figure that high. You are going to have some good times playing your own version of Brewster’s Millions!

  106. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You actually nail it. It’s about targeting a specific lifestyle, figuring out the cost, and adjust a plan to it.

    Nothing wrong with being frugal, but it’s stupidity to work so hard to accrue money you neither need or will ever use. Total waste of time. Let me work my whole life, sacrifice to the end, and then die knowing I spent my entire life accruing something I neither needed or wanted…absolutely brilliant.

    The Original NJ ExPat says:
    May 11, 2019 at 1:37 pm
    You have to have a spending goal for retirement. Mine is to spend $30K per month, every month. That’s total. Everything from living expenses to charity and gifts and good times. I’ll have $30K come down from my investment account to my checking account on the 1st of each month and my full time job will be to get it all spent before the end of the month. How would you like to be my friend at the end of the month if I’m behind on my “work”?

  107. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I still have some work to do as another goal is to have principal grow at the same time, not create a sinking fund. At least 7-8 more years of building up the headwaters and I might have to start/buy a business or two.

    BTW, I came up with this specific goal in my late 20’s. What I noticed back then was something very unhealthy. I observed people who worked damn hard to start with nothing and get themselves up to the top. Then, something bad seemed to happen to them. Wealth became the game, not a means to an end. They seemed to forget why they worked so hard and instead were now obsessed with another race, measured in net worth and power. Back then I figured out this simplistic plan:

    1. $5 million was the finish line.
    2. $5 million should generate 10% income per year, $500,000.
    3. $500,000 less taxes, well invested and tax sheltered, should net $365,000 per year, $1,000 per day, $30K per month.

    I’ve come to realize that you need more, but keep in mind I was also figuring 5% inflation, like we all did, back then. So, if I get there, $30K per month will actually buy much, much more than I envisioned. I fully expected that all college graduates would start at about $100K today and it would be about the same as a $30K salary in the late 80’s.

    I am a little worried now though, because Nimfy agrees with me. No other reason.

    ExPat – That’s an ambitious spend but more power to you. Given your goal are you on track? How many more, if any, years will you work?

  108. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    No, Nimfy. You missed the point of my goal. It has nothing to do with a lifestyle, it has to do with a specific, measurable, mathematical goal. “Lifestyle” isn’t tangible and you can always cheat it back with other intangible metrics. I simply figured the value, I was mistaken, but I figured the approximate value of what someone might make with a college education and being straight out of college. I only wanted 5 times that income with no debt and be committed to spending all of it, no matter what, because I would no longer have a reason to save it. I graduated college debt free and made over $30k that first year, and that was a great and simple time. I just set my goal to have a life that was 5 times that great and simple when I retired.

    You actually nail it. It’s about targeting a specific lifestyle, figuring out the cost, and adjust a plan to it.

  109. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Ironically, I lived in Wayne, NJ when I came up with that plan. I just wanted to nail down a way of thinking that worked when I was young and I wouldn’t forget when I was old. I might have gotten the idea from my younger brother. I remember him saying once that if he got to a $50K salary he figured he could have lobster for dinner every night. Ironically, he probably makes about that now, has never been married, no kids, no girlfriend. I bet he forgot about the lobster.

  110. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You def get it, and have my respect. Hats off.

    The Original NJ ExPat says:
    May 11, 2019 at 7:00 pm
    No, Nimfy. You missed the point of my goal. It has nothing to do with a lifestyle, it has to do with a specific, measurable, mathematical goal. “Lifestyle” isn’t tangible and you can always cheat it back with other intangible metrics. I simply figured the value, I was mistaken, but I figured the approximate value of what someone might make with a college education and being straight out of college. I only wanted 5 times that income with no debt and be committed to spending all of it, no matter what, because I would no longer have a reason to save it. I graduated college debt free and made over $30k that first year, and that was a great and simple time. I just set my goal to have a life that was 5 times that great and simple when I retired.

  111. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Get this guy a beer.

    This absolutely nails it. See, we are not that different. I’m with you, give me 5 million and call it a day. I can’t understand, nor will I ever understand the mindset where “it’s never enough.”

    “BTW, I came up with this specific goal in my late 20’s. What I noticed back then was something very unhealthy. I observed people who worked damn hard to start with nothing and get themselves up to the top. Then, something bad seemed to happen to them. Wealth became the game, not a means to an end. They seemed to forget why they worked so hard and instead were now obsessed with another race, measured in net worth and power.”

  112. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Has to be torture chasing power and net worth. It’s like as soon as you hit the top, your competition reacts, takes the top back, and you go into this never ending cycle of who has the biggest balls. By the time you get to your death bed, you realize it’s not about the biggest balls and instead you should have enjoyed using your dick instead of focusing so much attention on having the biggest balls.

  113. The Great Pumpkin says:

    China blows….honestly, war seems like it’s coming. Really hope China is not this stupid to go to war with the most powerful country in the world. It will destroy life as we know it.

    On a positive note, happy Mother’s Day! Enjoy the day with your family all.

    ““The biggest problem is the huge disconnect with what markets have been hoping for and what is transpiring now. Markets had priced the best-case scenario and odds are shifting towards the worst-case scenario”
    “China’s response was certainly not what risk markets were hoping for, so I expect huge volatility” at the Asia open
    Note: China is planning how to retaliate and has told Washington that it must remove all extra tariffs, set targets for Chinese purchases of goods in line with real demand, and ensure that the text of the deal is “balanced” to ensure the “dignity” of both nations
    “China demanding the U.S. drop the tariffs is setting the stage for a serious face-off”
    “Economic tensions can now morph into military tensions between the two countries, and then with the U.S.-Iran flexing their muscles, oil prices are at risk of spiking up”
    “For complacent equities, a perfect storm is brewing: tariffs, higher prices, a possible spike in oil prices in the face of fragile global growth. My asset allocation is gold, oil, inflation-linked bonds and defensive positioning””

    https://apple.news/AvH2qVY4MSVKw_ANO1NaYdQ

  114. Walking bye says:

    China will not go to war. They have an aging poplution with the average over 30. Countries whose population is over 35 rarely go to war. Syria , afghan, parts of Africa have average polulation under 25. They tend to go to war. Additionally those countries have large families so if you loose a son in battle no big deal. Countries whose average families are 4 or less tend not to accept loosing a child in battle. Each child is more precious.

    Happy mother’s day as well enjoy the day

  115. Sunday WalkingBye says:

    Except that they have a large excess of males to females ratio. They are not just males, they are rural, poor, low education males that like to cause trouble, and are the least likely and least friendly to a metro-sexual lbgt friendly culture that would be needed to overcome the male to female imbalance societal issues. They are type that every power elite likes to get rid off, if not with emigration than a war where they are likely to have some sort of gain.

  116. Leftwing says:

    Happy mother’s day to any moms crazy enough to hang around here, lol

  117. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Mid May, 45 degrees here in Boston. Smart move re-branding global warming as climate change. Otherwise it would be laughable.

  118. JCer says:

    Pumps as someone who watched it first hand, my parents started with nothing(literally broke, I grew up middle-class) and became quite wealthy. What happens after the first million, then the next up to 5, your associations change, your lifestyle changes and then 5 million is no longer enough. Your expectations and basis for comparison, the people you associate with means that if you had 5 million in the bank you’d feel wealthy, be contented and live more extravagantly than the people you associate with.

    We all think we are different but when your friends and business associates own houses in the hamptons and take vacations first class in a villa on the Riviera for a month. Or how about a yacht, owning any boat costs a significant sum, even a 50ft sport fishing yacht is over 2m to buy even for a lightly used one, then you figure crew of 2 which with benefits etc will cost you 125k-150k(even just a captain will cost 75k), taking trips will cost you 30k a year in diesel, dockage another 20k, and lets not even talk about maintenance. My dad had friends who were still working to pay for their yachts because it costs a quarter of a million to run a small yacht and despite being millionaires(10m easy) were not comfortable with all of their expenses on a fixed income. These people were living the same lifestyle as those who had 100m, and that can’t be done without working.

    So the demands for money get even bigger as you earn more and you quickly find you can spend all you earn. The other thing is the drive of people who get to those places, they are fiercely competitive people. These people need to win and when they have more money than they can spend, they then have to be better than their peers…… It is fundamentally the same psychology that can be found even among primates and almost all people.

  119. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    9:18 JCer – Well said. Don’t you hate when something well thought out, as was your post, is just buried in spam?

  120. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    …As opposed to Nimfy, where his spam is usually buried in good posts.

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