C19 Open Discussion Week 24

6 months…

From ROINJ:

Gov. Murphy, asking for some internet friends: Where is COVID finish line?

I didn’t intend for my tweet to start a Twitter storm. To be honest, I didn’t think it would draw as much attention as my shameless pic of some pretty good-looking fajitas I had whipped up Saturday night.

I was simply responding to a Saturday afternoon tweet by Gov. Phil Murphy — one in which he said the state is “not over the finish line” despite having dropped from 8,013 hospitalizations to 376.

I tweeted: “Not trying to be a wise guy, but is it fair to ask, ‘Where is the finish line?’ This is the frustration I hear from the business community.”

In the next 24 hours, I was bombarded by more than 150 likes, retweets and comments — that’s a lot for me. Clearly, I had struck a nerve. And no one thought I was being a wise guy.

Of course, the internet being the internet, you never what you’re going to get. Or from whom. Here’s what I got.

Some offered an answer, saying Murphy had given a finish line: When there’s a vaccine.

I’m not so sure about that. I’ve listened to all but a handful of his briefings, and that has never come up.

Many — including Pat Rowe, a former councilman from Madison — said the finish line was election day.

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365 Responses to C19 Open Discussion Week 24

  1. Juice box says:

    The finish line is on the horizon

  2. dentss dunnigan says:

    The finish line is when the democrats win the election

  3. Hold my beer says:

    When NJ has maxed out its borrowing ability

  4. Juice Box says:

    So Kellyanne and George Conway are leaving the Giltz and Glamor or Hollywood East Washington DC and headed back home to New Jersey.

    I gather their daughter who is upcoming social media star with more than 600,000 TikTok followers is the reason. I would think that channel is getting cancelled ASAP.

  5. homeboken says:

    Covid has allowed Murphy to exponentially increase his power to legislate from the executive because of “Emergency Declarations”. He can keep certain segments of the economy closed, he can influence the school schedule, he can borrower billions of dollars, all without legislative approval.

    Tell me, when over the course of history, has a political leader voluntarily relinquished powers without force? Only truly great men throughout history have sacrificed individual power for the greater good, i.e. George Washington could have been POTUS for life, he removed himself after two terms. That is a great man.

    Murphy is not a great man. He is terribly mediocre. He believes he is great and the courts and people have indulged his executive over-reach under the cover of pandemic emergency.

    I suspect, he will NEVER relinquish these special powers. He will either be voted out or otherwise removed from office before we return to “Normal” in NJ.

  6. 3b says:

    Jcer We were doing geographic dispersion before the pandemic as were many other companies. I agree WFH is bad for expensive markets. Will it lead to across the board pay cuts I don’t know. Will it lead to hiring qualified candidates in less expensive cities in the USA, yes. It already has. I see a situation where as older workers are replaced in this area with younger workers salaries will decline. Companies will not feel the need to pay higher salaries if the work can be done from home, which in turn will force NYC area to become more competitive, cost of living wise. Will it all get outsourced to India? I don’t think so, if there are little to no jobs in the USA,in the White collar sphere, we might as well shut it all down. The USA will simply collapse. Companies I believe will have some hybrid office /WFH combination, but the fact remains that companies are discovering they don’t need to pay for all this real estate. And that hurts NYC more than any other US city.

  7. 3b says:

    Juice: I am shocked she is leaving.

  8. TruthIsTheEnemy says:

    She is a tough lady and a patriot. Much thanks to Kelly Anne.

    Her husband strikes me as a grifter, trying to ride her coattails. He’s a nobody.

  9. Juice Box says:

    3b – It’s the right move rebellious teenage daughters cannot be left alone they tend to plump up if you know what I mean.

  10. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Every time I have been there over the past couple months, the line was 20
    People deep with like 3 employees telling people where to go based on cash or credit. This is 3 different Home Depot’s. Maybe bad timing on my part.

    “Pumps my house is 100 years old, I spend A LOT of time in home depot as the old home requires constant maintenance and repairs. I have not experienced this in the worlds largest Home Depot, by and large the new self checkout machines move quickly, I haven’t seen a problem in the store in vauxhall even though it is busier than ever.”

  11. Juice Box says:

    Also usually it’s the sins of the father, this time it’s both parents. Kelley Anne had her 15 year old daughter arrested for “assault charges”. It was not that long ago they were a happy family that is until they sold themselves for fame. They are all going to regret their time in the limelight.

  12. ExEssex says:

    8:29 riiiiiight. “He’s the grifter”.
    You f’ckers are masters of projection.

  13. The Great Pumpkin says:

    First, I have no business commenting on corporate wfh? Your entire passage below was predicted by me on this blog months ago. I said they would do this, and they are. 3b thinks they are going to use this WFH platform to go to cheaper locations in America, he simply does not see the big picture like I do. Yet, I’m the one that should not be commenting because I don’t work in corporate. Who was correct and who is wrong? The corporate guy was wrong and the teacher was correct.

    Also, my positions are often incorrect and uninformed? Come on, jcer, this is not the case.

    “People demean you for your profession, which we should not do, rather we should stick to debating you on the merits of your posts, which often times are incorrect and uniformed. Your position as a teacher makes you unqualified to speak about corporate America and the plans of private industry. You are dead wrong, WFH is here and the next phase involves reducing salaries. My wife is pleading with her people(her org is like 50 people) to come into the office because and I quote this is coming from the highest levels, if we don’t need those people in the office in London and NYC we can pay someone MUCH less in India or SLC. They have been aggressively pursuing a value location policy before but now they look at this as an opportunity to cut costs. First will be salary cuts, then if people leave or are laid off they will be replaced in a value location. My employer has aggressively pursued India resources during the pandemic, it’s nearly impossible to get a local resource. WFH is VERY, VERY bad for expensive markets, people should not be enthusiastic about this companies are very cheap once they realize the work can be done remotely they can use wage arbitrage to find the lowest cost place to do the work……”

  14. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And the minute the masses start realizing the WFH platform is being used to offshore their job, they will flip out. Politicians will get involved and WFH will be dead.

    I just can’t believe how greedy these tech companies and corporations are. They would sell out Americans to make a buck. Losers. They are everything wrong about this country. People over money. That’s what once made America great. The labor movement of the early 1900s laid the foundation for a strong middle class, too bad the top is too greedy and tricked the labor force into thinking unions are no good and the idea that their business can’t compete using American workers. Such bogus bs.

  15. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Do you understand they want high skill and low pay? Going to cheaper American markets is simply not taking the best skilled. It’s cheaper because they are lower skilled. They want to go to another country where they can get a high skilled Dude for cheap. Simple as that.

    3b says:
    August 24, 2020 at 8:23 am
    Jcer We were doing geographic dispersion before the pandemic as were many other companies. I agree WFH is bad for expensive markets. Will it lead to across the board pay cuts I don’t know. Will it lead to hiring qualified candidates in less expensive cities in the USA, yes. It already has. I see a situation where as older workers are replaced in this area with younger workers salaries will decline. Companies will not feel the need to pay higher salaries if the work can be done from home, which in turn will force NYC area to become more competitive, cost of living wise. Will it all get outsourced to India? I don’t think so, if there are little to no jobs in the USA,in the White collar sphere, we might as well shut it all down. The USA will simply collapse. Companies I believe will have some hybrid office /WFH combination, but the fact remains that companies are discovering they don’t need to pay for all this real estate. And that hurts NYC more than any other US city.

  16. Juice Box says:

    Pumps stop being a dolt already, you are wrong until you are proven right. As we speak there are 80 million people in this country working from home, which means until they go back into an office full time you are still wrong.

    It is a new paradigm and will continue until it doesn’t, expect start and stop openings until late next year when the vaccine comes out. After that expect a gradual reopening of offices with flexible work arrangements and hotel office spaces, the race for the corner office is still there it is now just the corner office at home.

  17. Fast Eddie says:

    FDA Issues Emergency Use Authorization for Convalescent Plasma as Potential Promising COVID–19 Treatment:

    https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-issues-emergency-use-authorization-convalescent-plasma-potential-promising-covid-19-treatment

  18. 3b says:

    I am praying hard for you. Please seek treatment. Your condition can be controlled with medicine and deep, deep therapy. Please utilize your medical benefits. Every journey begins with a single step. Please take that first step today. Bless you.

  19. Juice Box says:

    Eddie – unproven until after the eleciton.

  20. TruthIsTheEnemy says:

    The whole Lincoln is full of self promoting grifters. I
    Just looked at their website, it’s full of Obama type empty platitudes. The elitist pro China insider platform. They and Christie Whitman belong with Biden. Esx you can have them.

  21. The Great Pumpkin says:

    This reads like a Fox News article. It’s promoting an agenda, and you don’t see it until the last paragraph where they blame political leaders of the Democratic Party for people leaving nyc.

    Nomad says:
    August 24, 2020 at 5:24 am
    https://summit.news/2020/08/21/entrepreneur-new-york-city-is-dead-and-its-not-coming-back/

    Several realtors in flyover said they sold homes to two professional households fleeing NYC. All of you tri-state natives who know the area well, is NYC dead or is the upheaval going to make the flee the city thing last longer than anticipated with NYC making a rebound a few years later than anticipated? Seems as if the deteriorationlconti uses for another 6-9 mos and drags on the bottom 2-3 years after that the recovery will take a decade.

  22. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I pray one day you will be correct on an issue. You have struck out so many times I can’t take you serious.

    3b says:
    August 24, 2020 at 9:05 am
    I am praying hard for you. Please seek treatment. Your condition can be controlled with medicine and deep, deep therapy. Please utilize your medical benefits. Every journey begins with a single step. Please take that first step today. Bless you.

  23. TruthIsTheEnemy says:

    Look at the wiki page of another jersey boy Steve Schmidt, looks like he’s switched parties a half dozen times. Depends which way the wind is blowing. Perfect lobbyist material. Not exactly the constitutional purist that he claims.

  24. 3b says:

    Juice: Exactly. And the longer us corporate guys WFH, the more normal it will be. We may not be going back to office until first quarter 2021. And with more WFH then we already have. Only a simpleton would think it’s going to go back to the way it was prior to the pandemic. I have spoken to people involved in their companies office space planning, and the cost savings are huge, even if they don’t go 100 percent WFH. NYC is going to have to become more competitive. People are not going back to what it was prior to the pandemic simply because someone here thinks they should.

  25. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Just like it’s VERY DIFFICULT to teach someone long distance, how does one do it effectively with employees? WFH is working right now because all the grunt work was done in person before the Virus. The foundation was already built and put in place.. The only thing employees have done in the WFH environment is maintain status quo. Just keep the company running. No one is growing, unless it’s a tech company in the WFH environment.

    When they have to get creative or change direction of the company, good luck with that in a WFH environment. It will fail

    Juice Box says:
    August 24, 2020 at 9:05 am
    Pumps stop being a dolt already, you are wrong until you are proven right. As we speak there are 80 million people in this country working from home, which means until they go back into an office full time you are still wrong.

    It is a new paradigm and will continue until it doesn’t, expect start and stop openings until late next year when the vaccine comes out. After that expect a gradual reopening of offices with flexible work arrangements and hotel office spaces, the race for the corner office is still there it is now just the corner office at home.

  26. 3b says:

    Juice: So Kelly Ann’s Family dirty laundry is aired for all to see.

  27. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Talked to someone who works for a company that has locations all over the country. Over 10,000 employees. The majority of them are now being converted to WFH exclusively with no plans to renew their existing office building leases.

  28. Juice Box says:

    Pumps history Rhymes. Some of us saw NYC decline before, we lived there ya know and have first hand knowledge.

    The economy of the 1970s hit New York City particularly hard, it was also amplified by a large movement of middle-class residents to the suburbs, which drained the city of tax revenue which causes a fisical crisis in 1975.

    We are seeing that repeat today…

    “WASHINTON, Oct. 29 1975 (News Bureau) – President Ford declared flatly today that he would veto any bill calling for “a federal bail-out of New York City” and instead proposed legislation that would make it easier for the city to go into bankruptcy.

    In a speech before the National Press Club, Ford coupled repeated attacks on the city’s fiscal management with a promise that, if default came, the federal government would see to it that “essential public services for the people of New York City” would be maintained.

    White House officials said privately, however, that Ford had no intention of committing federal money to maintain such services. They also conceded that as defined by the Ford administration, “essential services” may not include public schooling.

    The ferocity of Ford’s attack on the city’s spending – he likened it to an “insidious disease” – appeared to doom chances for passage of any congressional plan to help New York avert default through federal loan guarantees.

    “I can tell you now that I am prepared to veto any bill that has as its purpose a federal bailout of New York City to prevent a default,” the President said.”

  29. The Great Pumpkin says:

    In the ultimate irony, their greed for using foreign labor has led to maybe their fall? They created this competition by going into China and training their workers. Not so smart after all.

    “Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg Stoked Washington’s Fears About TikTok”

    “In a pri­vate din­ner at the White House in late Oc­to­ber, Mr. Zucker-berg made the case to Pres­i­dent Trump that the rise of Chi­nese in­ter­net com­pa­nies threat­ens Amer­i­can busi­ness, and should be a big­ger con­cern than rein­ing in Face­book, some of the peo­ple said.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-stoked-washingtons-fears-about-tiktok-11598223133?st=jiylm3hy8hah8yf&reflink=article_copyURL_share

  30. 3b says:

    Juice: You were just schooled Son! Listen to someone who knows better than you! You ain’t working your just doing status quo, or whatever was said. It should not be so hard for you to understand that someone not in corporate America knows more than you who is.

  31. 3b says:

    BRT: Stop it!! Just stop it!!

  32. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Juice, there is going to be pain. I’m simply taking the position that NYC will not die. That’s the theme these days, right? NYC is dead and never coming back…sure.

    American economy lives and dies with the New York economy. Too big to fail..

  33. Juice Box says:

    The one thing I remember the most is the smell of NYC in the old days. There was garbage piling up everywhere.

    Then the talking garbage can came along, technology would solve the problem!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=723aWJSXFOE

  34. Vornado says:

    Hahahaha. This already happened for millions and millions of jobs and the politicians did nothing.

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    August 24, 2020 at 8:59 am
    And the minute the masses start realizing the WFH platform is being used to offshore their job, they will flip out. Politicians will get involved and WFH will be dead.

  35. The Great Pumpkin says:

    There goes construction jobs to janitor jobs in all those locations. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Can’t fix stupid. Hope their business can survive with customers that don’t have jobs.

    Go ahead, shrink the salaries too while your at it. Now you just took off percentage points from your customers ability to consume. Deflation is fun.

    Blue Ribbon Teacher says:
    August 24, 2020 at 9:24 am
    Talked to someone who works for a company that has locations all over the country. Over 10,000 employees. The majority of them are now being converted to WFH exclusively with no plans to renew their existing office building leases.

  36. 3b says:

    Juice: That smell stays with you! And the homeless urinating and sometimes defecating I’m the subways. And a couple of times the self stroking! The 4 , 5, and 6 trains everyday was an adventure!!

  37. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Vornado,

    When it happens to white collar jobs, the polticians will now listen. No one cares about the lower class, you know this…

    Do you understand that if they offshore or lower our white collar salaries, the American economy is dead. The engine that drives the world economy will turn off, destroying it all.

  38. The Great Pumpkin says:

    How can you maintain a “service based” economy if you destroy all the high paying jobs?

  39. 30 year realtor says:

    Where is all the excitement and talk about the Republican National Convention? Aren’t you guys excited?

    I will admit that I lost my enthusiasm for the convention when I saw that Dr. Stella Imannuel and the My Pillow guy didn’t make the speakers list.

  40. Vornado says:

    You have no understanding of history, even recent history. Many manufacturing jobs used to pay very well and were off-shored. Many white collar jobs were off-shored or replaced with visa holders for considerably less money.

  41. 3b says:

    30 Year I am not a Republican I could care less about their convention, same as the Democrats.

  42. grim says:

    Where is all the excitement and talk about the Republican National Convention? Aren’t you guys excited?

    Get your credit cards ready, there will be a number of hot deals and limited time offers made available. Steaks, Wine, Get Rich Quick classes, some real estate opportunities, etc.

  43. Juice Box says:

    30 year I am excited about almost as much as you were for Hillary’s speech last week. That Golden Girl from Chicago should be brought back in a Secretary of Defense this time, then we can start bombing people again. It’s just been too long since we did those 14,202 strike sorties in Libya, our work is not done in the Middle East, it’s time to get back in the sand again.

  44. TruthIsTheEnemy says:

    Yeah, a degenerate alcoholic who picks himself off the mat and becomes a millionaire, and a third world female MD who emigrates and builds a successful practice are two losers.

    We need a few more hooleywood types to speak about how disgusting we are for wanting to live in a safe and prosperous neighborhood while they fly in private jets. They are really inspiring.

  45. The Great Pumpkin says:

    What a bunch of turds. Hurting American business to make a buck. How are they not seen as traitors to the American citizens?

    “There is something discomfiting about the idea of getting fantastically rich off someone else’s misfortune, which is what happens when a “short” trade — or bet against a stock or industry — succeeds. The contrast is even more startling given that the pandemic, which has devastated the economy and hurt the livelihoods of millions, has turbocharged the bets that Mr. Icahn, Ms. McKee and others placed on the downfall of malls.

    The trade Mr. Icahn and Ms. McKee met to discuss, known as the “mall short” in financial circles, is the latest in a longstanding Wall Street tradition that some criticize as bottom-feeding because it preys on failure and can push a business over the edge while contributing little to the economy. Most investors buy stocks and bonds with the expectation that they will rise in value. A short is the opposite, and their defenders say they can help expose corporate fraud or deflate a dangerously overvalued asset, which can aid the smooth functioning of markets. More than a decade ago, some investors famously profited off the collapse of the housing market, even as the United States plunged into a financial crisis. Their trade came to be known as “the Big Short,” inspiring a book and a movie.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/24/business/mall-short-hedge-funds.html

  46. Fast Eddie says:

    Democrats are seething. The Russia Hoax, the fake quid pro quo, impeachment and every other “crisis” seems to fail. They thought finally, they had their victory with Covid and then…

    U.K.-based AstraZeneca (AZN) helped trigger a market rally in Europe, after London’s Financial Times reported that the Trump administration may fast-track the drugmaker’s vaccine candidate, in an effort to make it available to the public ahead of the November election.

    BioNTech (BNTX) was once again a big mover in early trade, surging 3.9%. The Germany-based biotech is partnered with Dow Jones stock Pfizer (PFE), and has several Covid-19 vaccine candidates in late-stage testing. Pfizer shares moved up 0.6% on the Dow Jones today.

  47. Juice Box says:

    Eddie – all vaccines are unproven until after the eleciton.

  48. 3b says:

    Grim: And limited addition silver coins.

  49. 30 year realtor says:

    Truth,

    Have you purchased a My Pillow yet? Does it protect you from the demon seed while you sleep? Do you need to have the sheets and mattress cover too? Or is the pillow alone sufficient protection? Have you ordered your oleander extract yet?

  50. grim says:

    There will be a killer deal on pillows

  51. Phoenix says:

    Kellyanne Conway’s daughter on TikTok- Wow how she slammed her family.
    What did they do to that poor girl? Either way looks like she will become much stronger from it that’s for sure.
    No wonder they want to get rid of TikTok.

  52. Phoenix says:

    MyPillow prevents bruxism.

  53. homeboken says:

    Truth – The Mike Lindell story is actually much darker than “degenerate alcoholic”

    The guy was a severe crack-addict along with many other substances. In fact, he was once brought to an intervention by his crack dealer. The dealers in Minneapolis would not sell any more product to Lindell.

    You can hate the guys politics, you can hate his pillow. But the guy has seen a “rock-bottom” that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy and he turned his life around. For any of the internet super-heroes on this board to mock that, is nothing short of disgusting.

  54. Juice Box says:

    Had to look him up, apparently my pillow dude is a legend from Minnesota, guy has made 300 million selling pillows with his picture on the box and is the now chair for President Trump’s reelection campaign in Minnesota.

    No worries he is going to delivery that state for Trump one pillow at a time.

  55. 30 year internet superhero says:

    I AM DISGUSTING!

  56. Hold my beer says:

    My kids are now on week 3 of online learning. The deadline to switch to in person for the 2nd 6 week session is this Friday. My kids will do online for at least the first 12 weeks this year . Will wait and see how covid cases are in this area before we send them back to in person. I don’t see how 4,000 people in one high school can be safe, especially with the school being about 20% above capacity. The middle schools are even worse and are about 40% over capacity. An additional Middle school is under construction and won’t be ready till next school year. It was supposed to be ready for this school year, but every school that has been built in my district since we moved here seems to have its opening delayed by a year.

    My area over 2% of the population has tested positive. I suspect the number of people who have it is at least 5-10 times that figure.

  57. 30 year dangerous and disgusting internet superhero says:

    Been a while since anyone called me dangerous here. Is it ok if I am dangerous and disgusting at the same time?

  58. JCer says:

    True can’t hate on the pillow guy, it is an accomplishment for addicts to kick the habit and have some kind of functioning life, a job or what not. This guy not only kicked the habit but founded a company which somehow makes money.

  59. homeboken says:

    30 year – Not a single poster on this page has said the word dangerous, other than you.

  60. 3b says:

    But if the My Pillow. Guy was a Democrat and working for Biden he would be a wonderful role model for other addicts to turn their life around , but since he supports Trump he can be scorned and ridiculed.

  61. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Beer,

    my hand wavy belief is that I can easily handle a class of 12 kids and maintain safety defined by social distancing protocols. Beyond that, it’s past critical density.

  62. 30 year dangerous, hypocrite and disgusting says:

    3b,

    As much as you would like to paint me as a hypocrite, religious craziness and this are why I poke fun at Mike Lindell.

    https://www.king5.com/article/news/verify/oleandrin-covid-19-treatment-fact-check/507-e4c087d5-8d66-4a92-9d97-4604f29a1f70

  63. Juice Box says:

    3b – “Guy was a Democrat and working for Biden he would be a wonderful role model for other addicts to turn their life around”

    He is a role model for Democrats, they sell a paperback version of his book on Amazon designed for Correctional Facilities.

    https://www.amazon.com/What-Are-Odds-Crack-Addict/dp/1734283416

    I will be here all year folks, maybe longer….

  64. 3b says:

    30 years: Poke fun at or ridicule? My point stands were he a Democrat his religious craziness would be overlooked.

  65. Fast Eddie says:

    NASDAQ and S&P at record highs, a vaccine is near and numerous treatment have proved effective, the number of cases, hospitalizations and deaths are plummeting, hmm… what will O’Biden do? In fact, can anyone tell me what the left’s policies are w/o mentioning Trump’s name?

  66. Hold my beer says:

    BRT

    In high school many kids every other day have to go to another high school in the district for half the day. They would have to ride a school bus that has already had 3 different groups of kids on it with no cleaning done between groups.

  67. Juice Box says:

    White privilege (guy with gun is still breathing)

    https://twitter.com/livesmattershow/status/1297782565038891009

  68. Juice Box says:

    Pumps great news the leaders of industry are listening to you they are bringing manufacturing jobs back to North America!

    Move to Texas and snap up one of those great jobs in a factory nearby!

    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/foxconn-other-asian-firms-consider-mexico-factories-as-china-13048412

  69. Walking by says:

    Hold, I would not worry about covid, kids are not spreading it. Routinely have 300 to 400 people in Amazon warehouses all over NJ, there are no issues

  70. 30 year dangerous and disgusting says:

    Eddie,
    There is a 92 page Democratic Party platform available online. The Republicans have posted a one page letter explaining that they don’t have a platform for 2020.

  71. Fast Eddie says:

    “I will raise taxes for anybody making over $400,000,” Biden said in a new ABC News interview that aired Sunday. “Let me tell you why I’m going to do it. It’s about time they start paying a fair share of the economic responsibility we have. The very wealthy should pay a fair share — corporations should pay a fair share.”

    The top 1% income earners pay more in tax than the bottom 95% combined. So, what’s fair?

  72. No One says:

    3b,
    The only religious crazies Democrats welcome appear to be Islamic ones. As long as they say they are being oppressed. Even if their beliefs and customs lead to things far worse than any of the southern holy rollers do. I’m an atheist and it’s clear that some religions are encouraged to be mocked by lefties and others not. Bill Maher the exception that proves the rule.

  73. Fabius Maximus says:

    “The top 1% income earners pay more in tax than the bottom 95% combined.”
    No they don’t Gary. Post the numbers and the source.

    Tried to go to motor vehicles today. 8AM and the line was around the building and into the car park. Most people with camping chairs. Sheriffs officers directing traffic and keeping order.

  74. The Great Pumpkin says:

    What recession. Killing it. This is crazy..

    “For the first time in U.S. history, the top twelve U.S. billionaires surpassed a combined wealth of $1 trillion. On Thursday August 13, these 12 held a combined $1.015 trillion.

    This is a disturbing milestone in the U.S. history of concentrated wealth and power. This is simply too much economic and political power in the hands of twelve people. From the point of view of a democratic self-governing society, this represents an Oligarchic Twelve or a Despotic Dozen.

    The Oligarchic Dozen are Jeff Bezos ($189.4b), Bill Gates ($114b), Mark Zuckerberg ($95.5b), Warren Buffett ($80b), Elon Musk ($73b), Steve Ballmer ($71b), Larry Ellison ($70.9b), Larry Page ($67.4b), Sergey Brin ($65.6b), Alice Walton ($62.5b), Jim Walton ($62.3b), and Rob Walton ($62b).

    Since March 18, the beginning of the pandemic, this Oligarchic Dozen have seen their combined wealth increase $283 billion, an increase of almost 40 percent.

    Elon Musk has been the biggest pandemic profiteer, seeing his wealth triple from $24.6 billion on March 18th to $73 billion on August 13, an increase of $48.5 billion or 197 percent.

    Amazon co-founder Jeff Bezos was worth $189.4 billion on August 13, up $76 billion or 68 percent since March 18.

    Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg was worth $95.5 billion on August 13, up $40.8 billion or 75 percent since March 18.”

    https://inequality.org/great-divide/twelve-us-billionaires-combined-1-trillion/

  75. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Imagine tripling your wealth in a couple of months during a pandemic.

  76. Grim says:

    But wait! There’s more!

  77. No One says:

    Eddie,
    I just saw a summary of Biden’s tax plans. Between the rate hike and taking away the cap on social security taxes, my Federal tax rate would rise from about 38% to 52%. Then add NJ tax rate and I would be about 61%.
    And paying in a few hundred thousand per year into SS still wouldn’t boost my SS check in retirement I bet. My hope is that congress wouldn’t pass a tax hike that bid. AOC probably wants a 75% tax rate though.

    I wonder how the stock market would like a 50% capital gains tax rate?

  78. Fast Eddie says:

    No One,

    Stop whining and get back to work. It’s your privilege to support the riff raff, layabouts and ‘peaceful’ protesters.

  79. Fast Eddie says:

    In 2016, the top 1 percent of taxpayers accounted for more income taxes paid than the bottom 90 percent combined. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid roughly $538 billion, or 37.3 percent of all income taxes, while the bottom 90 percent paid about $440 billion, or 30.5 percent of all income taxes.

    https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2018-update/

  80. homeboken says:

    Eddie – makes claim that is widely known to be accurate.
    Fab – LIAR, Post your source or GTFO Eddie!!
    Eddie – Posts source.
    .
    .
    .
    Fab – Disappears into irrelevancy yet again.

  81. 3b says:

    Fab: That has been common knowledge for years.

  82. joyce says:

    ugh this stupid debate again…

    It’s real simple, Fabius will agree that “The top 1% income earners pay more in FEDERAL INCOME tax than the bottom 95% combined.” Fabius won’t agree if you factor in SS taxes and other local taxes.

  83. The Great Pumpkin says:

    -The 6-month marker from the onset of the pandemic and its trends is starting to change minds.

    -Exante Data founder Jens Nordvig, in new comments, says we’ve “seen the peak in WFH,” after originally marveling at the extent to which businesses evolved to handle the new challenges. Some businesses, his included, actually performed many functions better remotely. He even went so far to say that it was a “wake-up call” for dense cities that suffer high costs.

    -But he’s “hearing more” from staff longing for “normal” office environment, better learning and mentoring. It’s a tough toll for those living alone, too. His clients are seeing challenges in managing their teams, and that those same teams are struggling for motivation and suffering discontent.

    -He doesn’t expect those with large commutes to get back to it quickly, but those within biking, walking range definitely will get back faster. On NYC especially, he said this has implications for real estate values, as there are signs it is “coming back to life,” albeit slowly.

    -He notes we are likely past the “peak shock” for the urban centers, and rather than the effects being unidirectional, the negative impacts from work-from-home are starting to turn the tide, he concluded.

    -Some of the most prominent stocks to benefit have been video conferencing and remote tools, like Zoom (NASDAQ:ZM), Fastly (NYSE:FSLY) and Citrix (NASDAQ:CTXS). Other stay at home favorites included Peloton (NASDAQ:PTON), Crowdstrike Holdings (NASDAQ:CRWD), Wayfair (NYSE:W), Chewy (NYSE:CHWY) and Blue Apron (NYSE:APRN). NYC real estate names that have taken the brunt of selling have included SL Green (NYSE:SLG), Boston Properties (NYSE:BXP) and Vornado (NYSE:VNO). There’s also a work from home ETF from Direxion (NYSEARCA:WFH).
    In mid-July, a bear on Zoom stock said the tailwinds were over. Baird in late July also discussed the trends and how they were impacting cloud companies.

    -Just last week, reports were that NYC landlords were pleading with large businesses to bring employees back. See the news here.

    https://seekingalpha.com/news/3608319-seen-peak-work-from-home-exante-data-founder-says

  84. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You can listen to pumps who has a track record of being correct, or you can listen to the noise.

  85. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Rule no. 1- Never bet against NYC.

    When will people learn? Always some clown…

  86. ExEssex says:

    Uh, yeah taxes are going up.
    You elected an imbecile who drove the deficit
    to stratospheric levels….

    Republican platform: 40 years in the desert.

  87. ExEssex says:

    And now this…..

    “The pandemic, we’re handling it very well. Look at the crowds,” Trump said in one of several false remarks during his rambling speech, which lasted about an hour.

    The president dedicated most of the first half hour of his speech to repeating his favorite lies about voting by mail.

    At one point, CNN cut away from his speech, citing the growing number of inaccurate claims Trump made about voting.

  88. Fast Eddie says:

    You elected an imbecile who drove the deficit
    to stratospheric levels….

    “President Obama had the largest deficits. By the end of his final budget, FY 2017, his budget deficits totaled $6.781 trillion.”

  89. Fabius Maximus says:

    So first we have this:
    “The top 1% income earners pay more in tax than the bottom 95% combined.”

    and now we have this:
    “the top 1 percent of taxpayers accounted for more income taxes paid than the bottom 90 percent combined”

    Nice try.

    As for your source, I pointed out to Eddie Ray repeatedly that the Tax Foundation is bought and paid for by the Koch’s. Its like getting your news from Fox,

  90. Fast Eddie says:

    Fabisu,

    So, you disagree that the top 1% account for more taxes paid than the bottom 90% combined? Or, are you saying that that’s not enough, they need to pay more?

  91. Fast Eddie says:

    Stocks rose Monday, with the S&P 500 and Nasdaq hitting fresh intraday highs and adding to last week’s record levels, as market participants reacted to positive developments over a coronavirus treatment, and signs that a vaccine might be authorized in the near-term.

    Travel, airline and other “reopening” stocks rallied, with shares of American Airlines (AAL), Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings (NCLH), Wynn Resorts (WYNN) and their peers each jumping. Apple (AAPL) shares advanced to their highest intraday level ever ahead of the stock’s four-for-one stock split.

    The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) on Sunday said it issued an emergency use authorization for investigational convalescent plasma to treat Covid-19 in hospitalized patients. While the treatment has not yet undergone full clinical trials, the FDA said that it deemed that the data so far suggest “product may be effective in treating Covid-19 and that the known and potential benefits of the product outweigh the known and potential risks of the product.”

    The turn around has been unprecedented! Trump with big wins!! I wonder what the dems will try next? G0d, they thought Covid was the biggie! Why couldn’t the outbreak be now instead of last March!

  92. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Five months later, the ev­i­dence sug­gests lock­downs were an overly blunt and eco­nom­i­cally costly tool. They are po­lit­i­cally dif­fi­cult to keep in place for long enough to stamp out the virus. The ev­i­dence also points to al­ter­na­tive strate­gies that could slow the spread of the epi­demic at much less cost. As cases flare up through­out the U.S., some ex­perts are urg­ing pol­icy mak­ers to pur­sue these more tar­geted re­stric­tions and in­ter­ven-tions rather than an­other crip­pling round of lock­downs.

    “We’re on the cusp of an eco­nomic cat­a­stro­phe,” said James Stock, a Har­vard Uni­ver­sity econ­omist who, with Har­vard epi­demi­ol­o­gist Michael Mina and oth­ers, is mod­el­ing how to avoid a surge in deaths with­out a deeply dam­ag­ing lock­down. “We can avoid the worst of that cat­a­stro­phe by be­ing dis­ci­plined,” Mr. Stock said.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-lockdowns-economy-pandemic-recession-business-shutdown-sweden-coronavirus-11598281419?st=zirrgy1gqvc38en&reflink=article_copyURL_share

  93. Fabius Maximus says:

    Gary,

    You posted a wrong statement and then tried to cover it over.

    ATEOTD as Joyce points out, we have gone over this many times.

    Tax capital gains as income is always a good start.

  94. Fast Eddie says:

    You posted a wrong statement and then tried to cover it over.

    Bullsh1t. I read somewhere it was 95%, thought it was high, double-checked because I thought it was 90%, confirmed it and then posted the source. You didn’t answer the questions: Is it not enough and do you agree or disagree whether it’s 90%?

  95. 3b says:

    Fab : Even if Biden raises taxes he will not do it in a large enough manner to piss off the special interests that own him. They understand there will have to be some window dressing when it comes to taxes.

  96. grim says:

    I can’t imagine how a politician from Delaware wouldn’t understand the benefits of aligning regulation, judiciary, and tax structure to benefit corporations.

    On the other hand, American corporations have been directly subsidizing Delawares general fund for decades now.

  97. joyce says:

    Gary,
    Fabius is talking about more than just federal incomes taxes (e.g. payroll taxes). The stat you keep repeating is correct only when limited to federal incomes taxes.

  98. Juice box says:

    Joyce better back that up with a”link”and social security does not count it’s safely stored in an IOU lockbox in Virginia.

  99. joyce says:

    Gary,
    Fabius is not debating 90 vs 95… it’s “tax” vs “income tax”.

    Juice,
    I know you’re kidding, but how about a wikipedia link to a picture?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#/media/File:2019_Federal_Budget_Infographic.png

    Lot of .gov infographics on the right hand side of the page.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget

  100. Comrade Nom Deplume, Future Bagholder says:

    My 16 months of being a dirty renter end shortly. Under contract in Wayne, PA

    And the seller is so pissed off at me for driving a hard bargain that he isn’t letting contractors in to give estimates before closing.

  101. Juice box says:

    Thumbs down Joyce I feel triggered and now need to go to rehab, I mean therapy of course by drinking beer in my pool..

  102. Comrade Nom Deplume, Sorry I came says:

    “So first we have this:
    “The top 1% income earners pay more in tax than the bottom 95% combined.”
    and now we have this:
    “the top 1 percent of taxpayers accounted for more income taxes paid than the bottom 90 percent combined”
    Nice try.
    As for your source, I pointed out to Eddie Ray repeatedly that the Tax Foundation is bought and paid for by the Koch’s. Its like getting your news from Fox”

    I come back after many months away and Gluteus the Gooner is still relying on ad homimen and sealioning.
    Some things never change.

  103. Juice box says:

    Comrad – know a great place out there, they open up the back of the bar to the great outdoors and let you bet on shooting stuff, oops I meant target practice while enjoying a beverage.

  104. Comrade Nom Deplume, Main Liner says:

    Juice,

    I think you may be confused. I am buying on the Main Line.

    Wayne, Radnor Township, not Wayne County.

  105. ExEssex says:

    Pardon me do you have any grey poupon ??

  106. grim says:

    That’s the part of the Main Line that people that live on the Main Line say isn’t the Main Line.

  107. grim says:

    How does that acronym go?

    Old Maids Never Wed?

    Old Maids Screw Their Poolboys?

  108. ExEssex says:

    Falwell is a real cuck.

  109. grim says:

    Is this going to be the cadence until the election?

  110. Grim says:

    Or did these just get saved up for the convention?

  111. ExEssex says:

    One transaction the attorney general’s office is reviewing is a 2010 debt restructuring for the Trump hotel and tower in Chicago, when the Fortress Credit Corporation forgave debt worth more than $100 million.

    The office said the Trump Organization had thwarted its efforts to determine how that money was reflected on its tax filings, and whether it was recognized as income, as the law in most instances requires.

    The attorney general’s office also accused the Trump Organization of withholding records related to how a $21.1 million conservation easement at the Seven Springs estate was reported to tax authorities.
    The valuation of the estate came into question last year after Mr. Cohen’s testimony to the House Committee on Oversight and Reform. Mr. Trump purchased it for $7.5 million in 1996, but then valued it at $291 million on his 2012 balance sheet. Six years later, in a federal ethics filing, he said it was worth no more than $50 million.

  112. Hold my beer says:

    Falwell sounds like a JJ story

  113. A Home Buyer says:

    Tax argument seems kind of like splitting hairs.
    So of the Federal Taxes that individuals pay is primarily / directly Social Security, Medicare, and Income.

    Social Security and Medicare “taxes” are funds that individuals pay into yet receive an out sized return on per this article:
    https://www.politifact.com/article/2013/feb/01/medicare-and-social-security-what-you-paid-what-yo/

    Sure, people need to pay into it but the value of their money is increased and provided back (directly to them as cash) at a time when they are most likely to need it, “guaranteed”. And the structure of the fund is progressive as (sadly) a few hundred dollars a month make a lot more difference to the poor then someone who is already sitting on piles on cash during retirement who also paid into it.

    Last I checked, the deficit spending and all these tax increases for special programs weren’t coming out Medicare and SS (well, other then those pesky IOUs because we cannot afford the system we have as it is) but rather they are being funded by the rich and corporations.

    I guess put another away, the Social Security and Medicare direct payments could be replaced by a deposit into your checking account (each paycheck at a rate of ~20% of what you previously paid into SS and Medicare) and it would be functionally equivalent to the net payment of those “taxes”.

    But it is late… Perhaps I’m just over matching it.

  114. Juice Box says:

    Comrade, congrats are in order you got a good rate or all cash? Listen I jest when I talk about turkey shoots in your neck of the woods, if you cannot find one then gobble gobble gobble I am a turkey. Again congrats you did what you said you would do and liftoff from NJ, that makes you braver than most.

  115. Juice Boxg says:

    I am confused did Falwell take the pool boy on vacation and then sleep with the pool boy because that would make sense, his wife not so much.

  116. Juice Box says:

    ExEssex – ohhh they are getting close! Dig further I am sure Grewal in NJ is turning over the books from the Atlantic City days. When do the statues expire? Jail no way even Nixon walked..

  117. grim says:

    Pfizer BioNTech trial has already exceeded 11k of the 30k expected. That was last week.

    They are now the US lead towards completing Phase 3 trials, passed up Moderna in terms of enrolled phase 3 participants last week.

  118. grim says:

    Wouldn’t put it past Grewal to have talked to that AC piano tuner’s son who Trump apparently stiffed in the 80s.

  119. Juice Box says:

    Grim – October Surprise will get you a job as Attorney General. Imagine the look on the Krishna’s folks faces….

  120. BoomerRemover says:

    Hi all. I am a sucker for a good deal and so I felt compelled to share with this corner of the internet:

    I just picked up an all electric Hyundai Ionic, Hyundai’s version of the Prius. My net effective payment – as a NJ resident – is $159 per month, all rolled in, sign and drive. No money down, no cap reduction, just $159 for 12k; three years. I used a broker to get this price, his fee is $249 but you get a $249 Sign and Drive bonus rebate to offset this cost. All can happen via text. He sends a PDF, you sign and go pick up the car. Pickup is in Bergen Co dealership.

    NJ is heavily subsidizing EV’s right now and the car is fantastic. If you need a roundabout or a car to gap a year or two. Reach out and I can hook this up. I am not profiting from this, this is not a commercial posting, just sharing an amazing deal.

    My base Ioniq has radar guided cruise control, lane keeping, wireless phone, android/apple, drive modes, all that digital stuff. No heat pump though in the base model. The limited has LED jewel lights all around, leather, roof and almost full autonomous highway driving capabilities…. but is still an eco box and is $50 more.

    I had some range anxiety but haven’t charged the car in two days now. I plug in at Edgewater park for a bit, a bit at home every few days. It’s not a huge battery so it tops up quick. I’ve driven EV’s before but living with one just reinforced the fact that I need to buy one of the upcoming CUV EV’s and avail myself off all those Murphy dollars coming my way.

  121. jcer says:

    Seriously no doubt the upper income earners carry the income tax burden. Here is the issue, the poor pay no taxes, the middle class is carrying less of the burden than ever before. Punitive taxes against the top 5% will backfire, you cannot squeeze blood from a stone and unfortunately the dreaded billionaire class tends to not be liquid but rather be heavily invested in their businesses.

    One only needs to look to Clinton’s second term to understand sound tax policy, it does not involve massive capital gains taxes or insane rates. If Biden increases taxes on incomes over 400k why would I bust my a$$ to earn more? I can assure you I’m not alone. A 50% tax rate and we will likely go single income. People who earn their money, even the millionaires are paying massive taxes, go after carried interest and other such ridiculous tax loopholes but trying to put failed policy in place is simply a non-starter. We know punitive taxes on capital gains are bad for economic growth. We need pro growth policy not just fiscally responsible revenue collection.

  122. Juice Box says:

    Poor nurse from NJ on the Trump show.Cancel her!

  123. Grim says:

    Winter in NJ is brutal on EV range.

  124. Grim says:

    170 mile base ev range is pretty good. We weren’t really ever worried with the Fit EV and it had far less.

    But – we had another car.

    Fit EV range on a brutal February morning was about 40 miles on a full charge.

  125. 3b says:

    Jcer get rid of the mortgage interest deduction completely.

  126. BoomerRemover says:

    h**ps://ibb.co/sgLkN5B

    I’m in Edgewater and WFH so we really use it to go to Trader Joe’s and back, pop into the city, BKNY, that sort of thing… but your point is not without merit. Hyundai does not have liquid thermal management and the base does not have a heat pump… it’s going to be interesting for sure. We would have gotten into the limited but the sunroof robbed us of much needed headroom space. I can’t imagine constantly brushing my head against the liner.

    Popular opinion is to lease EV’s as the tech advances rapidly, but what point does the tech slow down or are we headed to place where most cars are leased? I wonder if residual value curves will shift/recalibrate. The Chevy Bolt reported less than or around 5% battery degradation at 100k miles.

    I am keenly awaiting the VW ID.4 and somewhat mildly interested in the Mach E. I feel the globally sourced ID.4 will be a more well rounded product. These cars need to be spun off so that the dealer experience will be different, dot matrix grease hair mark up land is an awful place to find oneself.

  127. JCer says:

    3b wouldn’t effect me, glad to give it up if we could get a flat tax……..

    Biden’s tax plan is bonkers, hopefully it never comes to pass because it’s an expressway to recession.

  128. Phoenix says:

    “Jcer get rid of the mortgage interest deduction completely”

    Boomers would love that. Their houses are paid off so why should they care.

  129. zapaza19 says:

    “Boomers would love that. Their houses are paid off so why should they care.”

    heehee

  130. joyce says:

    Phoenix, it could affect what the house would sell for.

  131. zapaza19 says:

    Actually, my Florida home has pretty high taxes – over $6k. Not too happy with the assessment. However, here’s one big difference between the two states – NJ and FL…..

    When I GC’ed my Hunterdon County house, I was building on land that I already owned. As soon as I received the CO for completing my house on that land, my town started taxing me right away. Actually, they taxed me fully from the 1st day of that month,even though I received the CO on the 30th. Retroactive, I guess.

    I also owned the land in Florida before construction was started. I received the CO in the month of April. Sarasota County (no local tax assessors there) taxed me on the house 18 months later. Free ride (except for land tax) for a year and a half.

  132. 3b says:

    Phoenix: It night actually benefit the young people who fall for the bs you can write the interest off on your taxes, so don’t worry about the price. The mortgage interest deduction only benefits a minority of homeowners. Boomers houses are paid for they don’t need it , that’s true. The young people today will be paying mortgages into their 60 and 70s. Dump the deduction. Go to a flat tax.

  133. ExEssex says:

    Either
    Way tHe DeMs aRe oUtLaWing thE sUburBs.

  134. 3b says:

    Jcer I have heard it time and again it’s great just write it off on your taxes you get it back blah, blah, same with the property taxes. Most American homeowners don’t even benefit from it, and I would suspect more than a few don’t even know it.

  135. JCer says:

    I’m not a boomer and I’ll soon be mortgage free, it gives you piece of mind….now if only I could get rid of crushing property taxes.

  136. ExEssex says:

    Never happen JC / that’s why only the serious ballers can retire in NJ.

  137. 3b says:

    Jcer: Regionalization is a big part of the solution to
    Property taxes.

  138. JCer says:

    3b, regionalization won’t even help, look at your towns tax levy. How much is to fund local schools….it is approximately 60%…look at your towns tax base, how much is residential…probably over 80%…..how much state aid? Probably almost none.

    The elephant in the room is how we fund schools and education, the black hole that is NJ’s urban municipalities, fix school aid and fundamentally change how schools are funding and you’d go a large way to fixing property taxes. I’d advocate levying a school property tax at the county level and funding all schools to the tune of 16k per student in all districts, municipalities can then decide if they need to use local property taxes to spend more. The nature of north jersey towns being so incredibly tiny there is little to no commercial ratables spreading the pain ensures a bit more fairness. I’d also require school choice in any districts failing to get adequate scores on standardized tests.

    Next attack the next largest cost which is police, suburban police are paid much better than those in urban departments and then you departments that are top heavy. Eliminate local PD’s and move to a county police force in the suburbs, maintain patrol levels but reduce costs with lower cost rank and file vs. more senior officers.

    Just taking those two actions would make a huge difference. On it’s face it’s absurd, I live in a town with all houses, no significant commercial ratables, we fund schools nearly 100% from local property tax. All of our state aid goes to Newark and we fund the county which also goes to Newark. Newark a place with an airport, port, office buildings, an arena, office buildings cannot fund their own schools? Furthermore they spend 24k per kid and the kids can’t read.

  139. throwawaynamenjrer says:

    “It’s about time they start paying a fair share of the economic responsibility we have…”

    “…my Federal tax rate would rise from about 38% to 52%. Then add NJ tax rate and I would be about 61%…

    There are many axioms in life. Most are mathematical. Some are philosophical.
    At least one is political.

    When a Liberal says ‘fair share’ you RUN.
    Run FAR. Run FAST. Just RUN.

    Drumpf is a hot mess. But Grim godspeed with your business under Biden and Murphy. There is one upside. After they regulate and tax it to a shell of a rotting corpse they will promise a portion of the money taken from you less their vig of course in an expanded safety net to keep you from poverty because you no longer have a viable business. Good luck with the hooch under the new administration. Sincerely.

  140. ExEssex says:

    The GOP does not give two shits about the working people.

    Washington (CNN)Eliminating the payroll tax could deplete the Social Security trust fund within three years if there’s no alternative source of revenue, according to the agency’s chief actuary.

    The analysis was done at the request of four Democratic senators, who asked the agency to run the numbers after President Donald Trump said he would terminate payroll taxes if he’s reelected.
    “We will be, on the assumption I win, we are going to be terminating the payroll tax after the beginning of the new year,” Trump said earlier this month, adding that it would save families thousands of dollars.
    Only Congress could eliminate the payroll tax, and there’s little support for it right now on either side of the aisle. It would do nothing to help the millions of Americans out of work because of the coronavirus pandemic and not getting paychecks.

  141. ExEssex says:

    WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump’s campaign speeches can careen into many topics, but his primary appeal continues to be that he built “the greatest economy that we’ve had in our history” before the COVID-19 pandemic and he can do it again. The latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll shows he has an edge with voters on that issue and the Trump economy is likely to be a big topic this week at the Republican convention.

    But the real story of the Trump economy, and the president’s role in building it, is not so simple. If you compare key economic indicators from Barack Obama’s second term in office to the first three years of Trump’s time (that is, before the pandemic hit), the data show a continuation of trends, not a dramatic shift. It suggests Trump didn’t build something new; rather he inherited a pretty good situation.

    Start with the broadest measure of economic health, gross domestic product. In 2016, Trump said he was unhappy that the country’s economic growth rate was under 3 percent a year. Trump said he thought the economy could grow at better-than-4-percent annual rate.

    But the numbers show that average quarterly economic growth under Trump, 2.5 percent, was almost exactly what it was under Obama in the second term, 2.4 percent.

    Other than the overall similarity, two things jump out of those numbers. First, Trump didn’t get near his 4 percent figure. Second, the growth that began in Obama’s second term and essentially continued under Trump was enough to create an economy that even Trump believes was great. In other words, there might be something to be said for slow-steady growth over a prolonged period of time.

    Job numbers for Obama and Trump show a similar story.

  142. grim says:

    The GOP politicians do not give two shits about the working people.

    Fixed it.

  143. 3b says:

    Thank you Grim!

  144. TruthIsTheEnemy says:

    Trumps economy was superior to blamas in every possible metric but where trump killed it was the disposable income.

    Household income increased by 5k in trumps first three years but only 1k in “you didn’t build that’s” entire 8 years.

  145. Fast Eddie says:

    U.S. – China trade deal progress, vaccine in progress, the markets reaching all time highs… Looks like Trump is going to cruise to reelection.

  146. JCer says:

    The issue isn’t the economy when stimulus dollars are trickling it is the desired policy of the candidates that is telling. Biden’s tax plans if they came to pass would cause a recession or even a depression. Do I have have to bring up the “Yacht Tax” again, the unintended consequences of trying to stick it to the rich will be felt by all of us. If you’d like to continue to have an economy you don’t want to see Biden in the white house. The 92 page democrat platform is a 92 page pile of sh*t, the dems have gone off the reservation, the Bill Clinton centrist democrat is what brought them back from the brink. I remember in the 80’s everyone though the national DNC was dying. AOC might as well be Hugo Chavez!

    Trump is an absolute moron, no doubt and he bungled the COVID response but again I don’t know that it would have been markedly different if Hillary or Biden were in office. From a policy perspective though Trump’s policies make more sense, the bloated corpse that is our government(federal) bureaucracy could use a trim. Honestly our government is probably less efficient than Italy’s and that takes some doing.

  147. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Punish the school for something out of their control. You can take the horse to the water, but you can’t force them to drink.

    School choice will be like charter schools. Playing a dumb game of musical chairs, while blowing lots of money away with needless change.

    “I’d also require school choice in any districts failing to get adequate scores on standardized tests.”

  148. Juice Box says:

    I thought Kim Klacik and Senator Tim Scott were great last night.

  149. Fast Eddie says:

    The 92 page democrat platform is a 92 page pile of sh*t, the dems have gone off the reservation…

    I’m still asking why some here are voting for Biden without mentioning Trump’s name.

  150. JCer says:

    Juice, I thought Tim Scott was compelling, he hit the talking points and managed to make it fell heartfelt.

    Pumps, the issue is one of not using students as guinea pigs, if a school is failing not providing an alternative is wrong. Furthermore if the schools want to keep their funding they need to keep their kids by pleasing their “customer”, the parents. Under normal circumstances no, do not allow people to remove public education dollars because they want their kids in private school. But when the public school is no good? It’s criminal to give no other option to poor and middle class families….

  151. ExEssex says:

    9:12 ” cause a recession or depression” Yeah we’re already there.
    What you mens is that the very wealthy will have to be tapped into to handle paying
    off the debt numbnuts ran up .

  152. ExEssex says:

    Because, of course, there are few American politicians who wield more B.S. than Donald Trump. It’s not biased to say that Donald Trump lies much more than the average human being, with the Washington Post chronicling more than 20,000 “false or misleading claims” over three year and a half years in office — which averages more than 15 untruths per day.
    This is just one example of how Trump is actually the opposite of what so many of his supporters believe. And at a time when negative partisan narratives provide so much of the glue that holds together the conservative coalition, it’s notable that Trump embodies almost everything the right says it hates about the left.
    He is an entitled coastal elitist, an easily triggered snowflake who plays the victim card and constantly elevates feelings over thinking. Trump is a big spending, Constitution-disregarding, dictator-coddling, traditional values-disdaining, identity politics-embracing, cancel culture-advocating craver of safe spaces.

  153. Fast Eddie says:

    9:12 ” cause a recession or depression” Yeah we’re already there.

    I’ve never been busier, never made more than I’m making now, have job offers if I want them, my house will sell for way more than I thought and the markets are at record highs. I don’t know which strain of gonja is making you dizzy.

  154. ExEssex says:

    9:57 yeah we’re doing fine as well. But just because “you” are great …..

  155. Fast Eddie says:

    Essex,

    If you and I are doing fine, where is the recession? If you and I can sell our houses in a day, where is the recession? If the markets are surging and investment returns are soaring, where is the recession? If one can’t succeed on any level in this environment, it’s their failure, not Trump’s failure.

  156. JCer says:

    ExEssex, that is not at all what I mean. I mean in real terms it will decrease consumption and therefore economic output. We are not yet in recession or depression, considering the circumstances things are actually not bad. You couple what we are coming out of with the economic policies of the democrats(current plans, policies and talking points) and it will be a recipe for disaster. You want to raise taxes, have at it, put the Clinton tax rates back into effect(for all) we know what that will do and we know growth is possible under that tax regime.

  157. leftwing says:

    “What you [mean] is that the very wealthy will have to be tapped into to handle paying
    off the debt numbnuts ran up .”

    Yeah, not a chance. Not nearly enough wealth among them to come close to paying it off.

    The aggregate net worth of Americas billionaires is a little over $3 trillion. We spent that on one night in March.

    This massive amount of debt can only be repaid by tapping into the middle class AND future earners, millennials through Gen Z and beyond….

    That is the real criminal aspect of misrepresenting that taxing the wealthy will solve the problem…..

    Anyone 18-45 will be paying this off and feeling the effects for most of their lives.

    They are being sold the biggest bill of goods EVER that this burden will land on the very wealthy.

    You could literally clean the wealthy out – take every penny they own leaving them destitute – and it would not suffice.

    If you are under-45 and buying the liberal crap that just taxing wealthy will make everything all right you are fool signing your own financial death certificate.

  158. Juice Box says:

    Depression is here for me! Just got the axe! Last day is Oct and plenty of severance!

    WooHoo!

  159. ExEssex says:

    10:07 the recession is hitting those who aren’t lucky enough to have stock options, bonuses, and six figure salaries. We’re f’ed. The “we” being the USA.

  160. The Great Pumpkin says:

    At my failing school, all the Indians and some Latinos end up going on to elite schools. My school is considered failing because the majority of the population doesn’t care enough to participate and learn. HW? You are lucky if you get a name on the test with some of these kids…but blame the school and call it failing. Label the teachers as incompetent because they can’t achieve mission impossible..getting an urban student living in absolute poverty to give a sh!t about learning. Kid has other problems, and no parent there to hold them accountable in school.

    So go ahead, call the school failing so that no one really acknowledges how our society is failing these people. You can always cover it up and blame the schools.

    Funny part, there is an unemployment rate. There are not enough good jobs for everyone. So it really doesn’t matter that all these urban poor kids went to college, not like you would provide them all with good paying jobs. You rather offshore and blame schools for poverty.

    JCer says:
    August 25, 2020 at 9:48 am
    Juice, I thought Tim Scott was compelling, he hit the talking points and managed to make it fell heartfelt.

    Pumps, the issue is one of not using students as guinea pigs, if a school is failing not providing an alternative is wrong. Furthermore if the schools want to keep their funding they need to keep their kids by pleasing their “customer”, the parents. Under normal circumstances no, do not allow people to remove public education dollars because they want their kids in private school. But when the public school is no good? It’s criminal to give no other option to poor and middle class families….

  161. SomeOne says:

    Eddie,

    If you and I are doing fine, where is the recession? If you and I can sell our houses in a day, where is the recession? If the markets are surging and investment returns are soaring, where is the recession?

    Say, hypothetically you were struggling in 2011-2012, and markets were going up, and several others here were doing well, was it a bad thing or a good thing?

    Wisdom of the day from RNC Day 1:
    “As a health care professional, I can tell you without hesitation, Donald Trump’s quick action and leadership saved thousands of lives during COVID-19,” said Amy Johnson Ford…

  162. ExEssex says:

    I thought it was interesting the someone at the RNC brought up Restorative Justice.
    It’s a terrible program that started out here to avoid lawsuits. It’s fascinating to watch it all unravel.

  163. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Sorry to hear. Hopefully you find something quick.

    WFH environment lead to offshoring of your job? Or company just going under?
    Juice Box says:
    August 25, 2020 at 10:21 am
    Depression is here for me! Just got the axe! Last day is Oct and plenty of severance!

    WooHoo!

  164. SomeOne says:

    Juice, sorry to hear that. Hang in tight. Thankfully, you have a big severance to fall back on.

  165. ExEssex says:

    I don’t think it’s a matter of “wanting” to raise taxes btw.
    I don’t see how it can be avoided.

  166. SomeOne says:

    JCer,

    You want to raise taxes, have at it, put the Clinton tax rates back into effect(for all) we know what that will do and we know growth is possible under that tax regime.

    What do you think of Trump’s decision to cut taxes when the economy was chugging along? Won’t the deficits will matter at some point?

  167. Fast Eddie says:

    Say, hypothetically you were struggling in 2011-2012, and markets were going up, and several others here were doing well, was it a bad thing or a good thing?

    If the markets were going up, I was making money on my returns, right? And what do you mean by struggling? Out of a job? I would work three part time jobs if needed since the shovel ready jobs weren’t so shovel ready.

  168. ExEssex says:

    Trump was warned. Didn’t care. Still doesn’t care.
    Typical.

  169. ExEssex says:

    There is no formal definition for shovel ready. The Federal Highway Administration says it doesn’t use the phrase. Its preferred term is “ready to go,” according to acting administrator Jeff Paniati.

    That means a state has already done the preliminary work for that project, he says.

    “They’ve addressed all the environmental requirements as required,” Paniati says. “They’ve done the necessary public outreach. In many cases, the design work is already completed … and that they’re on an approved state list.”

  170. leftwing says:

    “it’s notable that Trump embodies almost everything the right says it hates about the left. He is an entitled coastal elitist, an easily triggered snowflake who plays the victim card and constantly elevates feelings over thinking. Trump is a big spending, Constitution-disregarding, dictator-coddling, traditional values-disdaining, identity politics-embracing, cancel culture-advocating craver of safe spaces.”

    And yet half the country prefers him to the ass clowns you guys run…HRC and the Creepy Uncle.

    Tamp down the immediate emotional response and actually dwell on that for a while.

    Think what it says about your side that so many people prefer this obviously and grossly troubled individual to anything you throw up.

    You will come to the same conclusion I do…..that it is fully understandable why the Left insists DJT casts some spell over a malleable population….because the alternative explanation – what the populace’s support of DJT says about YOU instead – is frightening to confront.

  171. ExEssex says:

    “Half” as you mention is 38%. Oh I understand the reasons.
    Which doesn’t account for apathy which Trump counts on to win.

  172. crushednjmillenial says:

    Gov. Murphy announced his new budget today. He cut 2% in expenses, compared to his February 2020 proposal.

    Headlines:
    (1) the NJ state income tax rate on income from $1-5m would increase from 8.97% to 10.75% (over $5m is already 10.75%)
    (2) $4B in new borrowing, less than the $9.9B that the legislature approved and the Supreme Court of NJ upheld.
    (3) largest contribution to the government worker pension plan in history.
    (4) the new budget contends with a $5B shortfall in revenues due to Covid and the Covid shutdowns

    So, more tax (and overly shutdown the economy and borrow unimaginable sums) and spend.

    One novel program Murphy is suggesting in “baby bonds” wherein every child born in a NJ household making less than $131,000 annual income in 2021 will have $1,000 invested on his or her behalf by the State. The $1,000 will grow and be available for that person at age 18. It will cost about $72 million per year, meaning 72,000 babies are expected to be born in NJ in 2021 in households making less than $131k.

    I disagree with the program leaving out the 25,000 babies that will be born in NJ households making more than $131k. Universality increases support for a program like this and cuts down on compliance costs (if it was universal for all NJ babies born in 2021, you just need to confirm residency and that the kid was born in 2021 rather than also confirming income of the household).

  173. leftwing says:

    And – boom – a four minute considered response lol.

  174. Phoenix says:

    “This massive amount of debt can only be repaid by tapping into the middle class AND future earners, millennials through Gen Z and beyond….

    That is the real criminal aspect of misrepresenting that taxing the wealthy will solve the problem…..

    Anyone 18-45 will be paying this off and feeling the effects for most of their lives.”

    Boomer Debt. Like carpenter ants eating the inside of a tree. Then when it falls and flattens your house that beautiful tree was completely rotted from the inside out.

    Romney Care was the good one, so funny. You under 50, here is a RomneyVoucher coupon for your healthcare. You over 50-you get Medicare, works everywhere, every time.
    Sorry under 50, I know you paid into Medicare since you were 16, but Boomers come first. Your RomneyVoucher is great, there are 3 doctors in America that will accept it and they are very good.

    Oh, BTW, us boomers would like a tax break, in return, we will agree to eliminate the mortgage tax break (which we have successfully deducted for the last 30 years) but we no longer need it. We will return that now (sucks to be you muppet that just bought my house for 600k) and we will trade it for some other deduction that will allow us to ride off into the sunset on our twin screw cabin cruiser. Toodles you little annoying brats….

  175. JCer says:

    Personally I did not think Trump’s tax cuts(on individuals) were warranted, I think we desperately needed to reform corporate taxation. I’d go further when Obama rolled back the Bush cuts he should have rolled them all back. I’m sorry to say that all things considered the high earners pay pretty significant taxes which are not entirely different than Europe when you add up all of our levels of income tax and our property tax but our middle and lower classes pay markedly lower taxes than Europe, food for thought. As leftwing points out there simply are not enough rich to fully fund the government even if taxed 100%. If anything those of us with high earned income get the shaft, we are paying a lot in taxes and have little to show for it, I get little from the federal government despite sending 100’s of thousands to them annually. My European counterparts get healthcare and university, I need to spend hundreds of thousands to send my kids to college and to pay for my own health insurance.

    The situation with companies moving offshore, the inversions needed to be stopped. Corporations can move more easily than people, the other thing I’d like to see is an end to non-resident taxation, if you move overseas the money earned overseas should be taxed overseas only income earned in the US or by people residing in the US should be taxed by the federal government.

  176. leftwing says:

    “Half as you mention is 38%. Oh I understand the reasons.”

    First, in the general I can assure you it will not be Biden over DJT 62-38….

    Seriously SX, move out of your comfort zone. I see (suspect) where you are going with the glib ‘understand the reasons’ remark. Racism, dog whistle, worse tendencies, blah, blah, blah…

    Seriously, step back and consider what IN YOUR PARTY allowed DJT to take 46% of the popular vote to HRC’s 48%……explain the vote outcome using the first person – we, as in the Left – and without uttering the words DJT…..

    Or don’t, and lose the WH by being totally lacking in self awareness. Again.

    Of no consequence to me….

  177. leftwing says:

    Phoenix 11:07a.

    Couldn’t agree more.

    And all we get out of the self annointed protector-of-the-common man Party are lies and false platitudes dripping from the tongue of the oldest boomer yet to attempt the mantle of the Presidency.

    And they scratch their heads when they lose…..

  178. ExEssex says:

    I’m not that surprised to see the Country like this.
    Look at home values in the rust belt. No jobs there so nice places
    have not appreciated I value in 60 years. Whole swathes of the Nation
    are literally destitute. But I think Trump has fleeced those folks too.

  179. ExEssex says:

    Things haven’t gotten better for a whole lot of people.
    It’s takes a lot of talent and luck to make it in this Country.
    It also takes opportunity.

  180. ExEssex says:

    Really if I was in the Midwest and staring down the barrel of my fifties
    Thinking damn nothing good for me happened under Obama, we gave this guy a chance
    and it’s been a shitshow from the start. Now I have nowhere left to turn.
    That’s why in this election a third party might really have worked.

  181. JCer says:

    left they haven’t been the protector of the common man in generations. They are the party of the poor and the mega-wealthy. Government largess flows to their friends and correspondingly they use the power of government to extract tribute from businesses. I’ve seen the local NJ machine up close and it is not pretty, it looks more like extortion than government. All of our politicians play this game, pay the political contribution….”that’s a nice business you have there, it would be a shame if something where to happen to it”.

  182. ExEssex says:

    Meanwhile we either let Trump run roughshod over every convention
    The Founders envisioned, or we risk a PC culture that errs on the side
    of things that scare white Americans.

  183. ExEssex says:

    11:27 that’s just it though. Unions allow this stability for so many in the middle class.
    You want an ownership class? You want Union jobs.

  184. Phoenix says:

    How govt protects their own:
    In paper, wife “accidentally” gets locked in backseat of husband’s patrol car while “looking” for something. Gets cooked to death slowly as she can’t escape.

    People online look up his name-and this comes up- why would internal affairs never secured a warrant for his DNA? Yup…

    Read page 2 and page six if you want to know how it works.

    http://egov.ci.miami.fl.us/meetings/2010/12/2155_A_Civilian_Investigative_Panel_10-12-21_Meeting_Agenda_(Long).pdf

  185. Phoenix says:

    Should be interesting to see what happens with the wife…

  186. Phoenix says:

    The founders also only allowed those to vote who owned land…

    Adam Ruins Everything.

  187. joyce says:

    I’m not seeing a 2% cut from his original proposal. In February, he submitted a $40.9B 12-month budget… and this is now a $40.1B 9-month budget. Not sure if I misread something, but I haven’t seen this current proposal referred to as prorated.

    crushednjmillenial says:
    August 25, 2020 at 11:01 am
    Gov. Murphy announced his new budget today. He cut 2% in expenses, compared to his February 2020 proposal.

    Headlines:

  188. joyce says:

    Well I definitely messed up by saying 40.1… it’s $32.4B over 9 months which I still the equivalent of $43.2B over twelve months and higher than his proposal in Feb.

  189. 3b says:

    Essex: Trump fleeced them too, but he only did it for 4 years.

  190. 3b says:

    Phoenix: You really should do some research on the mortgage deduction; it’s not as great as you think, and it’s got nothing to do with Boomers taking advantage of you or other young people. Do a little research you might change your mind.

  191. leftwing says:

    “The founders also only allowed those to vote who owned land…”

    Great idea. Should revert to something similar….If you neither own real estate nor pay federal income taxes you should not be allowed to vote.

    If you can’t fall into one of those two buckets you are effectively a ward of the State and do not deserve a voice in the direction of those people paying for your subsistence.

  192. leftwing says:

    “That’s why in this election a third party might really have worked.”

    There you go….good thought.

    Not over yet.

    Biggest open question for me is the hard left base. Do they understand the strategic juncture and how do they want to handle it?

    Power move…..Support DJT. He gets re-elected, with a middle finger to the Dem Party, and the hard core liberals will own the Party….or can start a viable new one.

    Knuckle under, hold your nose, and pull the lever for the Party after getting wildly fcuked by the Dem Establishment for the second time and you are surrendering…acquiescing to always being a small interest group within the larger Party who get tossed a bone every now and then.

    Many examples across both Parties of groups that are too fearful or clueless to exercise their power….Evangelists in the Repubs who get a Supreme every now or then to tilt at a windmill…Blacks in the Dem Party who get nice slogans, some token seats and appointments, and who exercise nowhere near their level of influence in their Party….

    The hard left could be, if they want to, the deciding swing vote….fcuk ‘Sconsin, the Wolverines, and Buckeyes……tats, piercings, and beard cream is where it could be at….

    Question is….will they get the respect and power they so desperately want by pulling a Soprano kneecapping of their own Party or are they going fall in line like good little boys and girls (again) in exchange for some words in a document no one reads and apologies later on because their points in the platform ‘would not be able to pass’.

    Power is taken. It is never given. And certainly not for free. No one – no one – ever took power by raising their hand in a crowded room and volunteering “hey, i’m a cuck but please give me what i want”.

  193. chicagofinance says:

    Just spoke with a Syrian-Lebanese gentleman who works in my building. He said the Beirut explosion was due to the espionage of Israel. I command you to BDS Israel. Also, BDS is part of the DNC 92 page platform.

    No One says:
    August 24, 2020 at 1:56 pm
    3b,
    The only religious crazies Democrats welcome appear to be Islamic ones. As long as they say they are being oppressed. Even if their beliefs and customs lead to things far worse than any of the southern holy rollers do. I’m an atheist and it’s clear that some religions are encouraged to be mocked by lefties and others not. Bill Maher the exception that proves the rule.

  194. Fast Eddie says:

    “The founders also only allowed those to vote who owned land…”

    Great idea. Should revert to something similar….If you neither own real estate nor pay federal income taxes you should not be allowed to vote.

    If you can’t fall into one of those two buckets you are effectively a ward of the State and do not deserve a voice in the direction of those people paying for your subsistence.

    I’ve said this repeatedly. At the very least, your level of productivity should be a barometer to measure the ‘weight’ of your vote.

  195. SomeOne says:

    Eddie,

    I’ve said this repeatedly. At the very least, your level of productivity should be a barometer to measure the ‘weight’ of your vote.

    How about this? Let’s put the cut-off as a little bit above your productivity (or, easier to measure net worth… say 1B or more), and let them decide everything. Well, we already have that going, so your wish is granted. They choose the red team or the blue team to keep the game interesting to the audience.

  196. JCer says:

    leftwing, frankly most of america in neither hard right or hard left. People vote in elections based on “feeling” or if they like the candidate. Public opinion can be relatively easily swayed, if the election were held today I think Trump would lose but if he ramps up advertising he could be back in the game. Frankly if he managed to get people to watch the RNC(only his voters are), he probably could have converted some. Based on what I saw in Cape May this past weekend there are a lot more Trump supporters than would would expect, the polls seem deeply flawed again.

  197. No One says:

    Even being capable of producing an ID is too high a bar for the Dems. Voter suppression!!!
    On the other hand, try to engage in business and they demand multiple ID and thousands of pages of regulatory forms and permits.
    It’s almost as if they want the populace poor, stupid, dependent of government for their living, and then making the act of voting for their Democratic Party “benefactors” so easy even an undocumented alien can do it.

  198. homeboken says:

    Both CNN and MSNBC were “fact-checking” the RNC speakers in real-time last night. Notable that they did not fact check any of the DNC speakers last week.

    Does anyone really believe that we have a balanced and unbiased media?

    What a joke.

    On the flip side, the CSPAN Youtube ratings for night 1 of the RNC was 6 times larger than night one of the DNC. Whatever that means.

  199. homeboken says:

    HRC says in recent interview that Joe Bide should not concede the election “under any circumstances”

    Odd, no? I thought Joe was way up in the polls and that Trump was doomed? Why is HRC sending up the bat signal of how to deal with an election night downer for the DNC?

  200. 30 year realtor says:
  201. chicagofinance says:

    30 year: I was kidding. I was just shocked that my business neighbor was so quick to blame Israel. It was a kind of cold sweat realization of what really exists out there.

    It also falls into the concern I have about young people being duped into morally justified activism such as BDS, when it hides real motives.

  202. Juice Box says:

    Pumps – re:”WFH environment lead to offshoring of your job? Or company just going under?”

    No my job is not being off-shored it is being eliminated for now. They will have to hire replacements when the realize that they made a mistake, but hey who am I to argue with the new boss he has been on the job for two weeks. It will fall on deaf ears anyway, as it happened last time we did a job action six months ago, and last year as well, the savings never materialize, and I knew it was coming as they have worked their way up and down the ranks looking for waste. New BOD and C-Suite do these things because they cannot figure out how to grown the business to appease the masters of the universe so they cut expense.

    I will take the severance and start working elsewhere. My company will be paying me for another month since they cannot figure out who can do the work today, and will send some kid to pester me for a few weeks. It’s time for me to go anyway, stock is doing bad for a while now. I should have left during our last re-org, 3 years ago as I was bored then.

    Now with WFH there are so many opportunities I could not apply for with out relocating. Now the sky is the limit baby…thanks to WFH.

  203. ExEssex says:

    Good Luck JB it’s a dog eat dog world.
    Sounds like you will be fine. Take a little time, it kind of nice.
    I figured out a long time ago that the only way to get a paid vacation is to get rif’ed with a severance. Good good times. Then I went to education where after a week they act like they own you and the pay is just above ‘living’ wage.

  204. ExEssex says:

    Think about how many Americans are insecure in their jobs and their income.
    It’s across the board today. Free-agency is a bit nerve racking and I cannot imagine leaving a good paying Union teaching job for the desert outback and the chance to be an at-will employee at a Charter School. You are essentially there until you are not. I suppose with that in mind I continue to drive the same ol’ car, ‘rent’ the same ol oversized suburban stucco manse, and hope I can hang on like everybody else. But hey it’s always sunny here…..

  205. homeboken says:

    Atilla’s Gym in Belmawr playing chess with King Murphy.

    The gym will become the campaign HQ for the senate run of Mehta. Thus exempting them from the more restrictive covid shutdown rules applied to fitness centers.

    Your move Murph.

  206. Hold my beer says:

    Juice Box

    Good luck. Hopefully you land something you like a lot better than current role.

  207. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    The domino effect continues and the work from home requests continue.

    https://www.nj.com/education/2020/08/surge-in-nj-teacher-leave-requests-are-crushing-reopening-plans-delaying-first-day-of-school-superintendent-says.html

    A Morris County schools superintendent says not enough planning by the state is contributing to the surge in teacher leave requests that are prompting some school districts to keep classrooms closed and offer only all-remote learning.
    The School District of the Chathams still plans to provide in-person instruction but is delaying the start of the 2020-21 school year by a week, with Superintendent Mike LaSusa telling parents the K-12 district may end up reversing course if leave requests keep escalating.

    “We are not in a place right now where we have to close, but if we’re faced with a continuing increase in the number of leave inquiries and potential leaves we could be in a different position a week from now, or ten days from now,” LaSusa said at a school board meeting Monday night.

    “It’s been unpredictable which districts are closing or opening all remotely and that’s putting new inquiries and potentially new leaves on the table, every single day that goes by,” LaSusa said, as seen on a video of the meeting.

    In the two weeks since Gov. Phil Murphy gave schools the option of offering only all-remote learning, the number of districts requesting state permission to keep classrooms closed to start the school year due to the coronavirus pandemic has soared to at least 180. Districts seeking approval for all-remote plans to start the year must identify a reason they can’t safely open classrooms and a target date to resolve that problem and start in-person classes.

    The Chathams are among those grappling with staffing issues from teachers concerned about their safety and the cascade effect for childcare as other districts switching to all-remote starts. Governor Livingston High School in Berkeley Heights, for example, switched to all-remote after 17 high school teachers out of 90 made leave requests, with the superintendent stating that the district has been unable to find enough replacements or substitute teachers.

    Chathams Superintendent LaSusa said the staffing problems stem from to the state education department offering “maximum flexibility” to school districts in issuing reopening guidelines on June 26 and three significant updates, including the all-remote option.

    “Many of us indicated at the time that if every school district was left to its own devices to open for 180 days of instruction, which was a requirement, that every school district would come up with a different schedule, unless the state dictated or directed in some way what kind of parameters we had to exercise,” LaSusa said, referencing discussions with other superintendents.

    LaSusa recounted conservations he has been having with teachers in his district who live elsewhere and have seen their child-care arrangements upended as other school districts — he referenced as examples Livingston, Mount Olive, West Caldwell and Millburn — have switched their plans to all-remote learning.

    “They go something like this: ‘Mike, I have a 9-year-old and a 7-year-old,’” LaSusa said, explaining that the unnamed teacher’s husband works at a job without scheduling flexibility and her mother-in-law, who ordinarily would help out, is 81 with several underlying health conditions and unable to assist due to the pandemic.
    “When my district announced they were going to go two days one week, three days the next, I found a college student who was willing to watch my kids and I thought I could patch through,” LaSusa recalled the unnamed teacher saying, “but then three days ago, my district announced it was all-virtual, and I’m in a bind right now, I have no options, I don’t know what to do. I’m considering taking a leave of absence.”
    “That’s the dynamic that we’re facing,” LaSusa said.

    Keep up with the latest in N.J. schools coverage. Sign up your email here:
    Murphy’s spokesperson and the state education department did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

    On Monday, Murphy said 180 school districts have applied to begin the school year with all-remote learning, with 436 opting for a hybrid model of both in-person instruction and remote learning.

    The Montville school district announced last week that the high school and middle school will be starting the school year remotely because 19 teachers at both schools are not returning to the classroom and officials have been unable to hire enough substitutes.

    The School District of the Chathams is a regional, K-12 district serving more than 4,000 students in Chatham Township and Chatham Borough.
    LaSusa said superintendents “were begging for some decision-making from our department of education, back in April and May.”

    “We were most focused on summer programming, especially for our special education learners and our extended school year students, but we were also clamoring for guidance or decision-making about coming back to school, because May and June is usually the time frame when we’re building master schedules, we’re hiring staff, we’re appointing people into positions, we’re ordering what we need to open a school,” LaSusa said at the meeting.

    LaSusa said the first day of classes has been postponed until Sept. 8. It was originally scheduled for Aug. 31.

  208. ExEssex says:

    Ah, yes, substitute teaching. Probably the single worst gig you can find in Education.
    Gee I wonder why they can’t find enough subs? (sarcasm)

  209. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    This is actually solvable for motivated teachers in my district. We have it in our contract that if you teach an additional class, you get 20% of your salary for each additional class you teach.

    When you hire a leave replacement teacher, you also have to pay $30k in health insurance. If you have 1 out of 6 teachers calling out, the other 5 can pick up the slack and get a nice big fat raise for the year (12 to 20k). Doing so avoids hiring the sub and the district can pay less money overall. If a person is willing to pick up more than one, they can get a 40% raise.It’s a win all around.

    This is not a solution for many districts that love to shortchange their teachers that cover classes. In my last district, there was a chem teacher that literally bailed on a fake family leave. I took on all four of his classes. That meant I taught 8 periods in a 9 period day. Different rooms. I came in at 6 am and stayed til 4 pm to have all the rooms setup. The district offered me $15 a class which was an insult. But, the whole purpose of me doing that was to basically ensure that 20 people were calling me for tutoring the next year in Physics.

    But in a district like that, no one is going to step up to the plate because why would you kill yourself for an extra $15 a class when you can make more money tutoring in 1 hour a week?

  210. Fabius Maximus says:
  211. ExEssex says:

    Interesting article https://www.businessinsider.com/why-millennials-are-moving-from-california-to-boise-idaho-2019-12

    2 of the families that sold near me are moving to Idaho.

    Idaho is a hot destination during the pandemic: 194% more people moved into the state than out since March, per data from moving marketplace HireAHelper.
    Its capital, Boise, has been called the best place for millennials to live in the US.
    It was also the fastest-growing city in the US in 2018, according to Forbes.
    Last fall, I spent four days in Boise, talking to longtime residents as well as transplants.

  212. The Great Pumpkin says:

    New York has gone from the epi­cen­ter of the pan­demic to the model for a re­spon­si­ble re­open­ing in two short months. The parks seem full, the streets have more life, but it’s an il­lu­sion. The re­al­ity is: New York’s of­fices re­main empty.

    We can’t re­cover un­til peo­ple ac­tu­ally re­turn to New York. That won’t hap­pen un­til the peo­ple who work in our of­fices come back. New York, like all cities, is an eco­nomic ecosys­tem that re­quires the com­mon com­mit­ment of every­one to thrive. Of­fice work­ers sup­port re­tail, restau­rants, cab driv­ers, street ven­dors and count­less oth­ers. The tightly wo­ven fab­ric of our ur­ban econ­omy is in dan­ger of fray­ing be­yond re­pair. The Part­ner­ship for New York City es­ti­mates that more than a third of small neigh­bor­hood busi­nesses might close per­ma­nently. The New York Fed has re­ported on the dis­pro­por­tion­ate ef­fect the pan­demic is hav­ing on black-owned busi­nesses. The dam­age is com­pound­ing and the sit­u­a­tion will only grow worse un­less we change course.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/its-time-to-open-new-yorks-offices-11598393805?st=v4e0qitluvmtu9j&reflink=article_copyURL_share

  213. ExEssex says:

    It’s crazy really to think about retiring in a place like High Cost Location X .
    When we do reach that point where we are no longer employable it just seems like common sense to want to be somewhere where you can buy a place for under $250k.

    I grew up spending summers in these little lake town in Northern WI, Southern IL, and the like. Generally speaking it looks like a good value for those on a limited budget.

  214. 3b says:

    Juice: Sorry to hear that, but it sounds like you are fine with it, so I am happy for you. Take the severance and a little break, and then you can get back in the game. And you are right, the WFH options are incredible! Lots of opportunity. NYC will have to figure it out, but WFH is here to stay. It’s not going back to the old days of everyone in the office all or most of the time. Good luck! And best to you and your family!

  215. Juice Box says:

    Pumps don’t throw a fit now, the source is fake news CNN

    “More than two-thirds (68%) of large company CEOs plan to downsize their office space, according to a survey released Tuesday by KPMG.“

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/25/business/office-space-remote-work-pandemic/index.html

  216. Juice Box says:

    3B – thanks

    This song has been playing in my head for a while now anyway, funny they had me on a conference call until 7pm this evening to talk about transition and I felt like singing it and hanging up….

    Should I stay or should I go now?
    Should I stay or should I go now?
    If I go, there will be trouble
    And if I stay it will be double
    So come on and let me know

  217. Fabius Maximus says:

    I was kidding AKA Sorry, Not Sorry!

  218. Fabius Maximus says:

    So DNC day one did a 14.1 on the ratings, RNC did a 11.1

    I expect RNC will get a bounce from last nights aTraitor Tot and Girlfriend Coke Fest that was WTF was that.

    That said we have RNC speakers dropping like flies between inditements and posting stuff that even the RNC is saying even they can’t go there.

  219. 3b says:

    Juice: Funny! I hope you got a good severance.All the best!

  220. 3b says:

    Juice: Uh oh now you have done it posting that link! Rage!!

  221. chicagofinance says:

    I regret hearing that……

    Juice Box says:
    August 25, 2020 at 10:21 am
    Depression is here for me! Just got the axe! Last day is Oct and plenty of severance!

    WooHoo!

  222. chicagofinance says:

    reading…..

  223. SomeOne says:

    homeboken @2:43

    HRC says in recent interview that Joe Bide should not concede the election “under any circumstances”

    Context seems to be about wait for mail in ballots to arrive. I think that if Biden does a preemptive concession and the final results indicate he won, there is a higher risk of the country tearing itself apart. A clean win one way or the other is better, especially with so much infighting among the population.

  224. Fabius Maximus says:

    To put some context to that HRC quote let’s go back to Bush Vs Gore. How long did that take to resolve.
    My view on that case was that it delivered the right result for the wrong (Very Wrong) reasons. In the end W got the numbers to win FL
    But for the SCOTUS case, first off half of them should have recused, and those that were left should have kicked it straight back down to the lower courts.

    So I the upcoming election I suspect we get multiple FLs A lot of cases will end up in SCOTUS and they will not be able to hear them all. In that case it is more imperative that they kick all cAses back down. That way we will get a result by Jan.

  225. JCer says:

    Juice, I’ll probably be joining you soon. Leadership changes are always hard to navigate, if you have a “big salary”, “big target” and since you are not one of “his guys” you need to prove your value. I was recently told something along those lines by someone.

    At least your firm offers good severance, ours is terrible. Hopefully you find the job market is good.

    To echo your comments on office reduction, our CA office closed, workers are permanently WFH, they decided to save money, they also laid off some. The management also doesn’t like the high wages in CA, they’ll focus on cheaper markets in the US and Canada but really in India and Eastern Europe.

  226. Phoenix says:

    ” but really in India and Eastern Europe.”

    And what does your government that taxes the living feces out of you do to help you? Absolutely nothing.
    Republican-Nothing
    Democrat- Nothing.

    I’m truly sorry to come home and read that two guys on this forum may be unemployed.
    Worse is that jobs are replaced by foreigners while we wave the American Flag.
    Sucks.

  227. homeboken says:

    Fab – I don’t necessarily disagree, I suspect Trump is playing the exact same tune as HRC suggested, he just isn’t blabbing about it during interviews.

    That said, imagine the world’s greatest superpower and one of the oldest republics not being able to accurately and with speed, be able to count their votes.

    This is all be design and the recent VBM push is meant to further obfuscate the issue.

  228. homeboken says:

    Watching CNN be forced to air the Nick Sandman speech last night, while simultaneously sending him an 8 figure check for slandering him, might be peak 2020 for me.

  229. grim says:

    Seeing lots of clients starting to cut to the bone to squeeze every drop of profitability.

    New clients that never considered outsourcing before are now coming in at a steady clip.

    Clients that would never consider offshore are asking, not only that, but work at home offshore (which has never been a material part of the outsource market in the past). Most clients would see this as being high risk.

    It’s becoming very easy to get visibility into the future job casualties by looking at companies going out to RFP, who have no track record of going to RFP. Either part of a last ditch effort, or because they want to minimize their cost profile before looking for a buyer.

  230. grim says:

    Pretty sure this is the end of a bank on every corner as well, the massive bank branch expansion is likely dead.

  231. grim says:

    Most of America has gone 5 months without stepping into a bank branch. What’s the point? Mobile/Online is the new branch battleground. Fintech disruptors rip roaring to go. You need very, very few employees to run an online bank.

  232. Fast Eddie says:

    Most of America has gone 5 months without stepping into a bank branch. What’s the point?

    I personally hate it. I like the interaction of a transaction. I like being able to handle my business with a teller or sit down with a financial representative to discuss money matters. Not being able to go to an office, being forced to wear a mask to get a f.ucking pack of gum and being holed up day after day in the house is a slow form of torture.

  233. grim says:

    You must bank at one of those fancy private wealth banks, because I’m not really sure why anyone that’s a regular at this blog would spend any time discussing financial matters with a bank branch employee. Maybe that’s a little arrogant, but having used the business banking services at two large banks, I’m wholly unimpressed. Every time I’ve sat down to ask for something, they just launch into a 30 minute upsell pitch. I asked about an SBA loan last year, I was told to take a second mortgage on my home instead. Stop calling me to tell me I need to switch to Intuit Payroll and switch my POS system to your Clover system.

    Contrast this to Square, who went out of their way to help small businesses during the pandemic. Waiving fees, adding features (for free) to allow for mobile orders, touchless, take out and delivery.

  234. homeboken says:

    Agree with this prediction, I will go one further. The Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) has detailed requirements about a banks community investment in the areas where they maintain physical banking facilities.

    No branch, lower CRA requirement. Less community investment (primarily in the form of affordable housing).

    This may be an avenue for politicians to push for AFFH agenda.

  235. The Great Pumpkin says:

    It’s based on a survey…enough said. Calling this trend is for losers that want to seem smart. Sorry, you are not. Think long term.

    All the loudmouths in support of wfh. How does society work under the umbrella of everyone working from home? Where do you go for fun? Everything is closed and operating online. Can’t even go to a store, they closed down to compete with WFH. Highways? Only thing they will be needed for in a WFH environment is to ship products to Amazon warehouses. Don’t about depressive. This will never happen. Who wants to live their life like a little caged rat stuck in your cage (house) all day and everyday.

    Juice Box says:
    August 25, 2020 at 8:57 pm
    Pumps don’t throw a fit now, the source is fake news CNN

    “More than two-thirds (68%) of large company CEOs plan to downsize their office space, according to a survey released Tuesday by KPMG.“

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/25/business/office-space-remote-work-pandemic/index.html

  236. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I seriously hate autocorrect. *Talk about depressive.

    Normally don’t correct it, but this one was so far off, had to.

  237. grim says:

    All signs point to delaying any potential vaccine approval without sufficient diversity inclusion in Phase 3. Terrible news for the US.

  238. grim says:

    All the loudmouths in support of wfh. How does society work under the umbrella of everyone working from home? Where do you go for fun? Everything is closed and operating online.

    Got some studies from some pretty bright analysts last week, they are targeting US companies to shift to 35% WAH. The pre-covid numbers were far, far lower.

    Wildcard is how fast we can reach herd immunity and reopen as quickly as possible to stem the shift.

  239. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Think about trying to start a business with WFH employees. You would trust them? You think they are going to be more creative and work harder for the company in a WFH environment? How does one train and teach their employees in a WFH environment? It’s bs people. Think.

    The only reason it worked right now, everything about the business was created in a non-wfh environment. All they did was transition to maintain status quo, not expand and compete. They will realize soon enough why every company that tried WFH in the last 30 years has failed.

  240. The Great Pumpkin says:

    How does the US govt allow a company like this to survive? This company is absolutely helping foreign countries at our expense. Lovely.

    grim says:
    August 26, 2020 at 6:30 am
    Seeing lots of clients starting to cut to the bone to squeeze every drop of profitability.

    New clients that never considered outsourcing before are now coming in at a steady clip.

    Clients that would never consider offshore are asking, not only that, but work at home offshore (which has never been a material part of the outsource market in the past). Most clients would see this as being high risk.

    It’s becoming very easy to get visibility into the future job casualties by looking at companies going out to RFP, who have no track record of going to RFP. Either part of a last ditch effort, or because they want to minimize their cost profile before looking for a buyer.

  241. grim says:

    You would trust them? You think they are going to be more creative and work harder for the company in a WFH environment? How does one train and teach their employees in a WFH environment? It’s bs people. Think.

    In the past two months we hired more than 10,000 work from home employees across the US, trained them, and put them to work serving many of America’s iconic brands.

    We built tools and technologies to build camaraderie, build culture, collaboration, security, and a safe work environment.

    We’ve worked to allow far more part time and split shift, enabled by work at home, to give working parents more opportunity to support their kids in virtual education, shifting school schedules, etc etc. We’ve been able to give these folks health insurance and benefits. Things start to get very interesting from an opportunity perspective if you eliminate the need to commute and can provide significant flexibility in how someone meets their hours.

  242. The Great Pumpkin says:

    It’s like they are aiding other countries in slowly swinging a bat to the leg of our jobs. They then get to sell products in our country? Kick me out. Peace.

  243. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Autocorrect again…. *kick them out.

  244. Phoenix says:

    Corporations > Humans= America

    Bean counters always win as they grease the hands of the politicians.

  245. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I call bs. What are these jobs? How do you train 10,000 people in 2 months online and know they are effective at their job? Sounds like total bs to me. Maybe they are jobs that don’t require thinking?

    grim says:
    August 26, 2020 at 8:20 am
    You would trust them? You think they are going to be more creative and work harder for the company in a WFH environment? How does one train and teach their employees in a WFH environment? It’s bs people. Think.

    In the past two months we hired more than 10,000 work from home employees across the US, trained them, and put them to work serving many of America’s iconic brands.

    We built tools and technologies to build camaraderie, build culture, collaboration, security, and a safe work environment.

    We’ve worked to allow far more part time and split shift, enabled by work at home, to give working parents more opportunity to support their kids in virtual education, shifting school schedules, etc etc. We’ve been able to give these folks health insurance and benefits.

  246. Phoenix says:

    Pumpkin,
    Grim does not BS.

    The storm clouds are on the horizon. You can choose to believe they are not there as much as you want, but reality is going to hit this country hard in a very short time.

    Stay frosty.

  247. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Humans, can’t fix stupid. They take a perfectly good system of going to work and f’k it up by trying to merge the home and office into one so that there is no boundary separating personal life and work. What morons. All to save a buck. Sick bastards that would destroy good lives to make a dollar.

  248. ExEssex says:

    8:20 outstanding. It’s these innovations that will drive the new version of the economy.

  249. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Grim,

    Does it occur that you are helping corporations destroy your neighbors job?

  250. ExEssex says:

    8:33 I disagree. We are heading toward a time when our crumbling roadways and mass transit will matter less, where quality of life will be taken into consideration and where quite possibly employees will be viewed as something more than just a “body” to fill a seat.

  251. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Grim,

    Do any of these jobs you replace pay more than the original? Do they actually help anyone besides the corporation?

    Corporations should start paying higher taxes, not less. How are we going to pay for anything with lower paying jobs or no job?

  252. The Great Pumpkin says:

    How are you going to go on vacation in this environment? Do you watch a YouTube video of a place and call it vacation? How does one ship all the products needed for humans to survive on a daily basis?

    ExEssex says:
    August 26, 2020 at 8:36 am
    8:33 I disagree. We are heading toward a time when our crumbling roadways and mass transit will matter less, where quality of life will be taken into consideration and where quite possibly employees will be viewed as something more than just a “body” to fill a seat.

  253. ExEssex says:

    I took a pay cut in my latest gig. Didn’t really matter that much.
    Most people are happy to be working now and if you cut days of commuting
    & lunches out it makes up some of the difference.

  254. Fast Eddie says:

    I’m not really sure why anyone that’s a regular at this blog would spend any time discussing financial matters with a bank branch employee.

    For certain things like VIP CDs for long time customers… that sort of thing, I need to speak with a human face to face. For questions on a checking account fee or some other oddity, you need to sit and talk. I get it… for the younger the generation, the farther away from human interaction, the better. I’m social. For introvert-types, perhaps this is all a blessing.

  255. ExEssex says:

    8:40 my life is one big vacation.

  256. Phoenix says:

    ExEssex,

    As with all things that will come to an end one day. Could be today. As someone who sees this on a daily basis, count your blessings. And see a dermatologist yearly.

  257. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Esssex,

    Your home, the new sweat shop. Get your daughter prepared for the idea that she will almost never leave the house. Just kill me now. This isn’t life.

  258. 3 says:

    Fast: If everything else was pretty much normal, would you be OK with WFH?

    Fas

  259. Phoenix says:

    “Most people are happy to be working now”

    I’d prefer to be retired and “working” for myself as I could not sit around. Would drive me crazy, but that would not be work for me.

  260. Nomad says:

    Grim,

    If not too intrusive a question what does your company do and what industries does it serve? Are you seeing more older applicants and what about new college grads?

  261. Fast Eddie says:

    …trying to merge the home and office into one so that there is no boundary separating personal life and work…

    I have to agree with this part. It’s not healthy. I’m logging on shortly after 6 AM and realizing I’m still trying to research a client case at 6 PM. It’s not good, all while stuck at the house, taking out the garbage, changing the light bulb, etc. And all those jobs that entail commuting, buying lunch, getting your shoes shined or dropping off clothes at a dry cleaner, shopping at a local store… that’s all gone.

  262. Phoenix says:

    Pumpkin,
    Just think positive. When she does not have to leave the house, millions of little girls in third world companies won’t have to work in factories to make all of the shoes and clothes that she needs on the outside.

    Soon she can sit in front of the screen naked, to viewers she will be wearing computer generated clothing and makeup. No need to do hair either, with a click on an icon she will be able to change her hair color.

  263. Phoenix says:

    Eddie,
    What corporate America wants, corporate America gets.

    Just wait till all of this sh1t gets hacked.

    It always does. Millions of little Americans, Koreans, Russians or wherever else typing on terminals just looking for that one mistake a boomer made in the code-or some corporate bean counter saved a penny on hardware- and it all opens up.

  264. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Phoenix,

    I didn’t even think of that angle impacting the economy.

    Since people WFH, expect them to not buy clothes except on the rare occasion. Expect them to not cleanse themselves on a regular basis leading to losses at companies that provide these products, leading to more job losses and more deflation. Economy is f’ed if this WFH really happens. It will drastically reduce economic activity. We are f’ed.

    I wonder how they will pay all this debt off in a deflationary environment? Talk about dooms day. These people just do not think long term.

  265. Phoenix says:

    “I wonder how they will pay all this debt off ”

    Wasn’t it you who said the debt would never be paid? Really.

    People are taking loans for houses they are never going to be able to pay for right now. One accident, one job loss, one illness- they are in foreclosure.

    Boomers racked up so much debt that even if you bled the last dollar from every zillionaire you will come up short.

    That’s the problem, you can only kick the can so far down the road until it ends. Thats when you reach the coffin corner.

  266. The Great Pumpkin says:

    The biggest irony in this all, when WFH causes people to not be able to afford the home they live in. You just have to laugh, the joke is on you.

  267. Phoenix says:

    The hubris of most Americans is off the scale. You read articles about how China is dumb, how all they can do is copy Americans, how their weapons are like fireworks, etc.

    Boomers have been watching so many reruns/revisions/remakes of WW2 movies that they think they are invincible.

    The core framework of America is corroding so rapidly it’s like the undercarriage of an old Toyota pickup in a Northeast state after 30 years of Murphy road salting.

  268. The Great Pumpkin says:

    No, I said to not worry about because inflation will wipe it out. Looks like that might not happen if we become a WFH economy and drastically reduce consumption in the economy.

    Phoenix says:
    August 26, 2020 at 9:06 am
    “I wonder how they will pay all this debt off ”

    Wasn’t it you who said the debt would never be paid? Really

  269. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Bring up a good point. What happens when the accountant in India figures out how to rob the company? Better yet, what happens when the automated accountant has a disguised program in it to steal 5% of the companies earnings without them a even knowing it. But hey, I’m saving on LABOR everyone!

  270. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Let’s put our entire civilization in the hands of technology. What could go wrong, right (sarcastic voice)?

  271. 3b says:

    People paying 500k for crap boxes close to the city, will regret it. With WFH, no need to be close to the city. Eventually the younger people will be replace the boomers and the older Generation X folks, and those salaries will be lower as no need for an NYC pay premium. NYC was pricing itself into oblivion, the pandemic just sped things up,and now NYC will have to become competitive with other US locations.

  272. leftwing says:

    “That said, imagine the world’s greatest superpower and one of the oldest republics not being able to accurately and with speed, be able to count their votes.”

    Oh, stop. I for one am fully confident in the Democrats’ assertion that hand ballots can and will be properly and timely tallied.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Iowa_Democratic_presidential_caucuses

  273. ExEssex says:

    9:10 homeownership is a myth a quaint notion that you “own” that structure you rent from the bank.

  274. 3b says:

    Fast: If I could have my weekends back for the things we used to do. It would be great. I have no issues with WFH. If I had young kids not in school then different. As for the commute don’t miss it. Thousands of people slogging in every morning, and then slogging home in the evening. The commuters for the most part never availed themselves of what NYC has to offer. I feel for the people that live in the city that can’t do anything.

  275. homeboken says:

    Pumpkin – You basically just described Superman 3.

    The Great Pumpkin says:
    August 26, 2020 at 9:14 am
    Bring up a good point. What happens when the accountant in India figures out how to rob the company? Better yet, what happens when the automated accountant has a disguised program in it to steal 5% of the companies earnings without them a even knowing it. But hey, I’m saving on LABOR everyone

  276. leftwing says:

    “Pretty sure this is the end of a bank on every corner as well, the massive bank branch expansion is likely dead.”

    What will suburban downtowns now do with their sh1tty run down underutilized gas stations and shuttered Friendlys?

  277. Phoenix says:

    3b
    Within 50 years or less the ocean is going to reclaim it anyway along with many coastal areas if you believe scientists.

    I won’t see it. But I will get to watch plenty of news reports about flooded tunnels and subways as time goes on. And now NY won’t have the money to maintain itself as it is becoming financially worse by the day.

  278. leftwing says:

    “All signs point to delaying any potential vaccine approval without sufficient diversity inclusion in Phase 3. Terrible news for the US.”

    Were you accepted? If you were declined was that part of the reason?

  279. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I’ll tell you what, if 3b is correct about the future, I’m selling every asset I have and buying gold. Deflation is what I see if WFH becomes the norm and I’m smart enough to get out before all the lemmings. Will liquidate all my stock and real estate.

    I will let you all know if I do. Right now, I’m almost positive WFH has no chance. Any WFH company that competes against a traditional company will get their a$$ handed to them by the better TEAM.

  280. joyce says:

    Gary,
    For questions on a checking account fee or some other oddity, you need to sit and talk.
    Just pick up the phone. It’s one thing about liking the charm of traditional methods, but come on… you don’t need to do this in person. I utilize more and more technology than I ever thought I would. But I still sometimes prefer the old fashioned way, so I get where you’re coming from.

  281. homeboken says:

    Local bank branches are not the place to get financial advice. It would be similar to speaking to the receptionist at the doctor’s office when you need a cancer treatment plan.

    Retail banking is like the DMV. I worked a summer, when I was 19, as a bank teller. The colleagues I worked with at the branch couldn’t accurately count down and reconcile their cash drawer at the end of the day.

  282. No One says:

    Speaking of private banking.
    Being a portfolio manager with 25 yrs in the industry and a CFA designation, the cheerleaders working at the local JP Morgan branch are scared to offer advice. My wife instead just negotiates an extra 0.1% on our CD interest rates.
    I never entered our HSBC branch, they are useful for international banking and transfers but the stuff they were trying to promote to my wife was horrific. She just wanted FDIC insured CDs and they were pushing her CDs with embedded single-stock derivatives.
    I missed JJ being on the board in March, there were some very unusual fixed income yields back then. Dollar denominated Mexican sovereigns yielding over 10% ask on Fidelity. Maybe Puerto Rico bonds were JJ’s Waterloo.

  283. No One says:

    Regarding Grim’s outsourcing. The history of economics is about getting more output relative to input, while inventing new and better goods and services. It’s why everyone is better off today than the greatest kings of 200 years ago. Adapt and compete, or stagnate. It pays to anticipate change. Fighting economic progress and efficiency is like trying to prevent water flowing downhill.

  284. A Home Buyer says:

    I too would be interested to know what sectors Grim is seeing the outsourcing in.

    There was a strong push years back for the engineering sectors which I’m involved with to outsource and then that kind of disappeared when they realized that no one understood our building codes and local amendments… and being on site made a big difference to see existing structures and communicating in American English with people from the rust belt.

    Curious to know if he’s seeing any reengagement in engineering outsourcing again.

  285. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Well then don’t cry when those changes lead to higher taxes on the only people making money.

    The world is not as simple as you present in your one sided argument below.

    No One says:
    August 26, 2020 at 10:31 am
    Regarding Grim’s outsourcing. The history of economics is about getting more output relative to input, while inventing new and better goods and services. It’s why everyone is better off today than the greatest kings of 200 years ago. Adapt and compete, or stagnate. It pays to anticipate change. Fighting economic progress and efficiency is like trying to prevent water flowing downhill.

  286. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Are people better off than Kong’s of 200 years ago? No, absolutely not. The majority are struggling and hating life.

  287. Phoenix says:

    “It’s why everyone is better off today than the greatest kings of 200 years ago. Adapt and compete, or stagnate.”

    The better question would be are our children going to be better off than we were.
    IDGAF about 200 years ago.

    What are boomers doing today to help future generations vs lining their pockets at the expense of the youth and the planet they are supposed to inherit?

    Dear Theodosia, what to say to you?
    You have my eyes
    You have your mother’s name
    When you came into the world, you cried and it broke my heart
    I’m dedicating every day to you
    Domestic life was never quite my style
    When you smile, you knock me out, I fall apart
    And I thought I was so smart
    You will come of age with our young nation
    *We’ll bleed and fight for you, we’ll make it right for you
    If we lay a strong enough foundation
    We’ll pass it on to you, we’ll give the world to you*
    And you’ll blow us all away
    Someday, someday
    Yeah, you’ll blow us all away
    Someday, someday

  288. leftwing says:

    Nice song reference Phoenix.

    Post of the week so far:

    “The history of economics is about getting more output relative to input, while inventing new and better goods and services. It’s why everyone is better off today than the greatest kings of 200 years ago. Adapt and compete, or stagnate. It pays to anticipate change. Fighting economic progress and efficiency is like trying to prevent water flowing downhill.”

  289. Hold my beer says:

    My property tax rate is going down 1.5 cents per $100 of assessed value. I wonder how much the property value is being increased by.

  290. chicagofinance says:

    NYC is going back to this……. check out the subway
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN4ATDfCYmo

  291. chicagofinance says:

    I really resisted putting the bank app on my phone. I just receive so many miscellaneous manual checks, and I am not going to the bank branch anymore.

    I never save my login credentials, and only use the app in one location that I trust.

    The bank branch is super easy for me. I can literally stand up at my desk and walk to a teller counter in less than 90 seconds.

    joyce says:
    August 26, 2020 at 9:44 am
    Gary,
    For questions on a checking account fee or some other oddity, you need to sit and talk.
    Just pick up the phone. It’s one thing about liking the charm of traditional methods, but come on… you don’t need to do this in person. I utilize more and more technology than I ever thought I would. But I still sometimes prefer the old fashioned way, so I get where you’re coming from.

  292. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Too much of anything is no good. What happens when said input becomes so efficient, there is no need for the majority of workers? Aka most of the economy is supported by a minority of producers. We are already there…once they automate cars, the only purpose most people will have is to consume drugs to take the pain away.

    At the end of the day, most be need a purpose. A reason for getting up each and every day.

    “The history of economics is about getting more output relative to input, while inventing new and better goods and services. It’s why everyone is better off today than the greatest kings of 200 years ago. Adapt and compete, or stagnate. It pays to anticipate change. Fighting economic progress and efficiency is like trying to prevent water flowing downhill.”

  293. chicagofinance says:

    Speaking of unusual yields, check out this fallen angel…… a new tobacco stock?
    https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/XOM?p=XOM&.tsrc=fin-srch

    No One says:
    August 26, 2020 at 10:25 am
    I missed JJ being on the board in March, there were some very unusual fixed income yields back then. Dollar denominated Mexican sovereigns yielding over 10% ask on Fidelity.

  294. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Also, what’s wrong with life now or even back in the 80’s. Does making everything hyper efficient really make life better? Why do we have to keep eliminating jobs that give people purpose in the name of efficiency and more profit?

    No one, you cry about high taxes on high earners, but when these earners are so efficient at making profit that they leave almost no opportunity for everyone else, what else does society have with a choice but to tax the most efficient profit creators?

    How else do you sustain society, when you lower labor costs and increase profit costs to a maddening level of efficiency that leads to major income inequality. How does one keep the masses happy under this model? How do you give them purpose?

  295. Fast Eddie says:

    I hate being home every day like this… hate it!!

  296. leftwing says:

    chi, i just tossed xom on a watchlist…want to pull up some filings and research this weekend…likely too early but at some point….no?

  297. Walkimg says:

    Chifi, great subway video post. You forget what the city looked like. Ahh the memories of taking the 7 to Shea stadium in 88.

    How as a 15 year old, who had never been to NYC, figured it out with my friend with no help from google is a mystery to me.

  298. ExEssex says:

    I eat better (and less) when I WFH.

  299. SmallGovConservative says:

    As if we needed any further evidence that the modern Dem party simply cannot be trusted to govern, we now have the California blackouts. Essentially due to the fact that the Dems, who’ve taken complete control of Cali, are more interested in ‘solving’ climate change than they are in ensuring that electricity is effectively delivered to the state’s citizens. No different than the thousand other examples of Dems essentially telling taxpayers to take a hike because they’re too busy addressing the ‘real’ issues — climate change, gender equity, income inequality, LGBTQXYZ rights, etc — to worry about something as inconsequential as good governance. Think they’re going to use taxpayer dollars to ensure border security? No way, they want the border to be wide open and to use taxpayer dollars to ensure illegals have access to any welfare program they want and have the best representation possible if they’re ever apprehended. Think they’ll use taxpayer dollars to ensure law and order in our cities? No way, they’ll use them to ensure ‘protesters’ have the space they need to vent their anger. Your store is looted while this happens? Tough luck, get your insurance to deal with it. The fact that there are middle-aged professionals here, having presumably contributed hundreds of thousands — if not millions — of dollars in taxes over their working lifetimes, and having witnessed over and over the impact of incompetent Dem governance (Detroit, Baltimore, DeBlasio’s NYC, NJ, IL etc) , want the country to be governed by the Harris/Biden/Pelosi’s of the world is astonishing.

  300. 3b says:

    Fast: Times have changed. All else being equal, as in we could go out and about like we used to, WFH is great! I don’t know why you miss schleping into the city everyday.

  301. Phoenix says:

    Brutal. That’s life. Expect more.

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1298494182101790721

  302. Fast Eddie says:

    3b,

    I work on this side of the river, Hudson County. Strangely though, I feel alive when showering at 6 AM, eating a quick bite and getting on the train by 7 AM. Being in the office has that ambiance, the work vibe, colleagues around, the routine. WFH is okay occasionally, not every day. I just hate it. And, I miss seeing scores of pretty women! ;)

  303. Fabius Maximus says:

    I read this and it just reconfirms to me that this country is not in a healthy https://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/how-a-wargaming-exercise-predicted-the-past-few-months-of-the-2020-presidential-race-1.5693527

    I still think that we have a 60% chance of a clean election. RNC have mad it clear, forget appealing to the middle. It’s shore up the base and go for Voter Suppression and cheating.

  304. Hold my beer says:

    I’m getting bots texting me about the election. So far today I’ve gotten one telling me Biden is a puppet for China. Also got one asking me who I’m voting for. I’m debating if I should reply Kanye or Spartacus.

  305. Fabius Maximus says:

    Small WtF is that all about. You want to have a discussion on the Ca blackout issue, Fine. But then you list every grievance on a GOP bingo card.
    If you want to discuss CA energy deregulation lets go.

    I maybe a little slow to respond as I’m a little off grid at the moment, but be assured
    I’LL BE BACK! Small clue on what you’ll have to defend against.

  306. Fabius Maximus says:

    Gary look at your vacation accrual and email your boss and tell him you are talking a week off. Even if the mrs is going back next week. Take a drive each day. Walk a beach. Hike a trail. Rent a boat.

  307. Fabius maximus says:

    Priceless

    “ Manafort’s claim that Steele was biased against the Trumps will be significantly undercut when the Washington Post reports that Steele is in fact ‘a personal friend’ of Trump’s daughter Ivanka, and that indeed Trump and the Trump Organization had trusted Steele and his work…”

    Donnie offered him a job in 2010

  308. Not Bloomberg news says:

    NBA boycot

  309. 3b says:

    Fast: I get the pretty woman part, and sounds like you need a routine for WFH. As for the colleagues and vibe, meh, I don’t really need that. The young folks in my office all headphones all the time, and don’t really interact with others. The people with young kids always rushing to get out at 5:00. I have had the office routine for years, and sat on a trading desk for years. I am ok with doing my own thing.

  310. homeboken says:

    WFH – love not having the commute, hate the groundhog day nature of it all. It is not conducive to creativity and innovation. Hate to agree with Pumps there but I suspect I will be back in my office and more importantly, on the road seeing clients and partners soon. The front office worker can’t survive long without a hunt. Sharks swim or they die.

    FYI – People here have said that Pumps anti-WFH stance was due to it impacting his personal property value. That’s not what is motivating him. His primary source of income is tied to the performance of commercial real estate (Vornado). WFH will cut the revenue’s of his spouse’s employer very deep. That is the motivation. Not Wayne real estate value.

  311. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Wrong again. My wife can easily get another job, her skills are in high demand. Her company is also well positioned and run well. They sold off their weak positions over the past 5 years. CEO was ahead of the game..

    My motivation comes from seeing the big picture. I don’t want to be a rat stuck in a cage, which is what it is. Don’t take the human aspect out of life and society. Force people to go out into the world and interact. Don’t force them to live a life behind a screen because it’s convenient for them to not have to interact with someone all day. Hiding in front of a screen all day when life is right in front of you.

    What kind of future do you want for your kids? Think wisely. Do you really want a life for them where the only human interaction is through a screen?

  312. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Where they hardly leave the house? Wtf are we creating for them? A nightmare?

  313. Fabius Maximus says:

    Wow Is there no level they won’t go to?

    Fauci tells @drsanjaygupta he was under anesthesia when task force met to discuss changing testing guidance. “I am concerned about the interpretation of these recs & worried it will give people the incorrect assumption asymptomatic spread is not of great concern. In fact it is.”

  314. chicagofinance says:

    From GS as of July 15th…. need 270 electoral votes
    Likely Start:
    Trump: 162
    Biden: 233

    Up for Grabs (143 electoral votes)

    Florida (29), Pennsylvania (20), Ohio (18), Georgia (16), Michigan (16), North Carolina (15), Arizona (11), Wisconsin (10), Iowa (6), NE-02 (1), and ME-02 (1)

  315. chicagofinance says:

    You must love pontificating on the Internet; the only place where you do not physically look up at everyone to posit your chronic nonsensical rhetoric.

    Fabius Maximus says:
    August 26, 2020 at 4:51 pm
    I read this and it just reconfirms to me that this country is not in a healthy https://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/how-a-wargaming-exercise-predicted-the-past-few-months-of-the-2020-presidential-race-1.5693527

    I still think that we have a 60% chance of a clean election. RNC have mad it clear, forget appealing to the middle. It’s shore up the base and go for Voter Suppression and cheating.

  316. Phoenix says:

    Haha. We need to worry about “crippling student debt” for police recruitment-how about that kick a55 pension and health benefits plus job security. I’m sure there is a shortage of recruits (not)

    “Recent guest columnist John Vespucci makes an interesting theoretical case for cops having degrees (“To get a better cop, we need to start with a college graduate”) but a few real world issues may complicate the picture.

    First, the proliferation of guns in civil society means that almost every instance involving an emotionally disturbed person, a domestic dispute or, of course “shots fired” has the potential for loss of life, in which case a “foundational knowledge of psychology and sociology” as well as the attributes of “humanistic values and cultural sensitivity” take a back seat to staying alive.

    Second, Vespucci proposes that, like other professions, police applicants should bear the cost of a college education. Are we really willing to saddle professionals in a high-pressure job with the added pressure of crippling student debt?

    Third, the more police officers are charged with murder during the course of duty — no matter how justified the accusation — the more prospective applicants may have second thoughts about the amount of legal exposure the job entails.

    Finally, the tools we provide police for dealing with emergencies — guns — are a primitive technology that dates back to 14th century Europe. Until we can devise a more scientific and humane way to subdue malefactors we can only expect more bad press for the police, and that’s hardly an inducement to recruitment.”

  317. JCer says:

    SmallGovConservative, it’s not just a Democrat issue, the GOP has quite a few white elephants they run. The difference is the DNC wants more government not less, which is puzzling, they’ve done so well with what they have let give them greater responsibility…..What could possibly go wrong? The bigger issue is the more government interference the greater opportunity for corruption, soci@list nations have seen this up close and it isn’t pretty. All of the appeasement of the riots is worse, I’m sorry the governor of Wisconsin poured gasoline on the fire(with his comments) and is asking why the building is burning now….it’s almost like they want chaos.

    Eddie, here’s the deal WFH is monotonous. Going to the office breaks up the day, your scenery changes and you physically see other people, the clear division of work from home is important as well. For your mental well being periodically going to an office is good for you, your co-workers, and your management. My experience dealing with global teams tells me it is much harder to have a good working relationship with those you never see. WFH is pretty bad for collaboration, teams and clients are more easily coordinated in person. If WFH permanently were really as effective as in office for most people our offshore teams wouldn’t have half the productivity of those stateside(not all but most are far less effective than the local employees).

    Pumps efficiency is a “GOOD THING”, fyi. The issue is wage arbitrage, replacing 10 efficient us workers with 15 cheaper resources offshore isn’t about efficiency it is about cost effectiveness, I argue it is reverse progress. They can hire 40 offshore workers for the cost of the 10 here. The race to bottom is a very bad thing. Figuring out how to do the work those 10 do with 2 people is a good thing, now we have freed those 8 people to work on something else, ideally rather than firing the 8 workers they get reassigned to new initiatives to better the business. Humanity is founded on this concept, in the beginning we all had to gather food and hunt. We invented agriculture and tools which now allowed one person to create a surplus this allowed for civilizations, cities, specialization of skills, education, eventually leading to modern society. Progress and efficiency gains are the reason you have what you have today, it used to take a lot more people to build a house, we killed all those jobs, a house used to need site built windows, no plywood so everything was an individual boards(no ply wood)(sizes weren’t even standardized, cast iron piping with threaded joints were the norm(a lot of work with manual tools), your drains were cast joined with molten lead. The real cost to build a home was much higher, you wouldn’t be able to afford a place like your highway castle or a single car for that matter.

  318. JCer says:

    On wage arbitrage, it is why we all can afford tons of consumer goods the question becomes is that a good thing? We have too much junk. Buying higher quality where the worker is paid a decent wage is the better course of action. Look at an old home, not too many closets, even in a wealthy persons home, as a proportion of income goods had much higher costs. I marvel at how the Chinese can produce what they produce at the prices they produce it at, it doesn’t seem like it should be possible even with $1 per hour wages.

  319. SmallGovConservative says:

    I wonder how large scale, permanent WFH impacts professional sports — at least the ones that play weeknight games. Does the typical Ranger/Knick/Yankee fan that used to go to weeknight games because he was already in the city, schlep in from LI or NJ on a Tuesday night to see a game at the Garden if he’s WFH?

  320. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Federal Reserve chief to outline plans for inflation, economy

    https://apple.news/AG6l6RN2gQmSCd6RkZwJbkA

  321. chicagofinance says:

    People who are at the beginning of their careers also need the office so they can develop their professional demeanor and basic understanding of work flows.

    WFH is fine if everyone hired is experienced. However, offices where a good deal of young talent is molded and developed with see the impact within 2-3 years as their home grown staff underperforms or leaves.

    JCer says:
    August 26, 2020 at 7:20 pm
    Eddie, here’s the deal WFH is monotonous. Going to the office breaks up the day, your scenery changes and you physically see other people, the clear division of work from home is important as well. For your mental well being periodically going to an office is good for you, your co-workers, and your management. My experience dealing with global teams tells me it is much harder to have a good working relationship with those you never see. WFH is pretty bad for collaboration, teams and clients are more easily coordinated in person. If WFH permanently were really as effective as in office for most people our offshore teams wouldn’t have half the productivity of those stateside(not all but most are far less effective than the local employees).

  322. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Jcer,

    I def understand that, I’m just pointing out that extreme efficiency means most won’t have a job. If we automate car driving, look at all these jobs that will be eliminated. What are all these former drivers going to do? How do replace that many jobs?

    Point being, that efficiency has a point where it really does eliminate more jobs than it does create.

  323. JCer says:

    Small, Devils fan and season ticket holder here. I know a few people who WFH on game nights so they can go to the games, easier than going to NYC for work. I suspect there would be a small impact, hardcore fans will always go. I worked in Newark so game days were pretty easy I usually could eat and drink for anyone else got downtown newark.

  324. ExEssex says:

    Jobs are constantly being phased out and re-invented.
    Kids today will be doing jobs tomorrow that we haven’t
    imagined yet.

  325. 3b says:

    Home is primary problem with WFH is impact to both.

    WFH is here to stay 100 percent right away, no , but substantial. The young people will have to get used to it, is it difficult for them starting out, yes, but those difficulties will be overcome. And when the kids are back in school it will be a huge quality of life improvement for those working parents. I don’t know how anyone can miss the soul sucking commute into NYC on NJ rancid Transit. As I have said before those that do commute into the city, it’s rush and stress to get in, rush and stress to get their work done, so they can leave by 5:00. The trains are packed at 5:00 to go home most of those commuters are not staying to enjoy the city. When I started out we had closing and client dinners,many of them are gone now for a number of reasons. Other times we went out as it was expected. It was a pain in the ass at times after being on a trading desk from 7:30 to 5:00. However, we could do it as most of our wives were home. That’s pretty much gone now.

  326. 3b says:

    Chgo: I don’t necessarily see that. We are going amazing things with providing training remotely for new onboarded workers. It’s like anything new it takes time and people have to get used to it. And the longer we are home, the easier and more normal it will become. All the people I know who are working in NYC myself included, have no idea when and in what fashion they will be going back and even if they will be going back. It’s not even a discussion topic at meetings anymore. One company in particular spent the last 5 years cramming their staff from 3 buildings into one. People literally on top of each other. They can’t go back even if management wanted to.

  327. Hold my beer says:

    Murphy is claiming this is political. Did any other governors besides New York , New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Michigan make nursing homes take covid patients back?

    DFW area roughly 70% of deaths from
    Covid are 65 and older. And about 33% of deaths are from
    Long term care places.

  328. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Murphy is that kid in class that copies the work of his classmate and gets caught because he copied the wrong answer. New Jersey has a death rate of 180 per 100,000. That pretty much puts us as the worst in the world.

  329. The Great Pumpkin says:

    If automation does most of the work…how much creative work is left for billions of people?

    Look at the stock market, and I thank the lord i went all in with my wife’s 401k on VWUAX(up 5% past two days), it’s all rapidly falling into a few hands. 12 people in America are worth over a trillion dollars. We haven’t seen this kind of money concentration since rough rider teddy Roosevelt and the labor movement combined to break it up.

    This time we have a problem; we created such efficient machines combined with offshore labor, you have no choice but to shut these down or raise taxes on the people absolutely killing it (musk is a billionaire that tripled his wealth over 3 months during a pandemic..scary) and then take a helicopter, and start dumping money. New territory.

    Ultra efficient production that has no need for billions of workers. Uncharted territory my friends. The Luddites were simply ahead of their time. 200 years before their time. They had the right philosophy, just that the technology wasn’t there yet.

    If you tell me we need a full workforce today to sustain the world population, you are crazy. Like jcer pointed out, we create so much excess unnecessary products. Just totat waste of resources, but imagine if we took that away. So many jobs lost.

    ExEssex says:
    August 26, 2020 at 7:52 pm
    Jobs are constantly being phased out and re-invented.
    Kids today will be doing jobs tomorrow that we haven’t
    imagined yet.

  330. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I even look at streaming. I have all the services. I do enjoy all the content and different options, but at the end of the day, I miss the connection that tv gave back in the day. Everyone watched the same shows and everyone could make jokes about it. Now, most people don’t watch the series and making a joke about it leaves people in the dark.

    Last great series that connected people in conversation was “Game of Thrones.” Now they just talk about a 30 second tic tok video. F’ing heading towards dumbville. Can only take in content at short 30 second intervals.

  331. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I’m not going to get in the way of Tic Tok, might just not understand it, but just yearn for when kids could appreciate a movie. I’m going to have a very difficult time teaching in 10 years, they are all going to be like ADHD kids. Can’t let the character develop, need the rapid reward which is no fun at all.

    I’m just getting old and yearning for the old days that I understood and was more in touch with. Just hit 40, and the world is changing rapidly, and I’m not sure if it’s for the better…but then again, I might just be romanticizing.

  332. crushednjmillenial says:

    Pumpkin . . . are you still bullish on North Jersey real estate?

    64 Lake St.
    Clifton 2-family
    $375k
    50 x 100 lot
    Purchased last for $355k in 2008
    $9500/yr in prop tax

    https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/64-Lake-Ave_Clifton_NJ_07011_M65092-63003#photo19

    Also, there are a lot of sub-$500k 2-family properties in Clifton. I would think these would probably be a buy for a real estate bull? or am I failing to see an important analysis point that makes these prices bad for a real estate bull?

  333. nobody says:

    Thank goodness, I didn’t listen to the oldies on this forum advising everyone that NJ is the worst place to buy and worst time.. They kept saying and still keep saying..

    I just sold my second house I bough for 15% more than what I paid in Jan 2019 for 650… Minus 6% realtor fee, taxes etc..

    In a commuter town and not a great school district..

  334. nobody says:

    Pumps was right..

  335. crushednjmillenial says:

    Speaking of Clifton, I just saw something new to me.

    I’ve never seen a duplex built like 57 Althea. It looks like the guy built a duplex on a 100 x 100 lot, where each side is styled as center-hall colonial (albeit, attached). Interesting project, but I wonder if he would have done better by subdividing the 100 x 100 lot and just building two seperate houses with a similar footprint and a small alley in between near the property line.

    57 Althea
    $1.2m for new construction duplex
    100 x 100
    10 bed
    6 bath

    https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/57-Althea-St_Clifton_NJ_07013_M51718-55858?view=qv

  336. welldonesir says:

    Well, how about this one.. 1 bed room apartment in Lyndhurst listed for 650K…. WTF ??
    Signs of bubble??

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/825-Riverside-Ave-202-Lyndhurst-NJ-07071/2078090931_zpid/

  337. ExEssex says:

    9:08 creative ….work? As a hyper creative individual I’ll say that few jobs offer creative outlets unless you are actually doing creative work. No in most jobs You are either asking people for something or baby sitting someone’s property, offspring, or putting up with jealous unbalanced co-workers or filling out spreadsheets or presentation decks.
    I don’t consider teaching to be particularly “creative” and I teach Art. Teaching is frustrating because it’s filled, like most enterprises, with @ssholes. These folks make that live of work miserable. But creative ? Not especially. You are distilling useful information to young folks 1/2 of whom are not interested. That’s teaching.

  338. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Hell yea, I am.

    Remember the wild card, if I’m wrong about nyc and WFH, sell all assets at first sign. Deflationary hell will follow. Get money in gold, copper, silver…stuff like that.

    Obviously, based on my posts. I don’t see this happening. These CEO’s are smarter than me by a mile. If they are begging other CEO’s to return to the office or risking destroying nyc, I think behind closed doors, most are explaining the situation like I have on this board. Take the long hanging fruit for one time cost savings, at the risk of losing it all long term with the changes you bring about in the economy that it will not be able to recover from.

    crushednjmillenial says:
    August 26, 2020 at 9:29 pm
    Pumpkin . . . are you still bullish on North Jersey real estate?

  339. The Great Pumpkin says:

    F’k autocorrect. Ignore all misplaced words or grammatical errors on the tech. Bastards replace “low” with “long” hanging fruit. I’m not going to waste time correcting it, but you know why. They replace words and destroy the sentence. Tech rules!

  340. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Jewish population moving in. This neighborhood is on fire, and it’s only beginning.

    Did anyone listen to my advice to buy in Fairfield or Wayne over the last few years? If you bought on the low end(below 500), you absolutely knocked it out of the park already. As time goes by, more money and competition will lead to big gains in homes in the 700+ range.

    crushednjmillenial says:
    August 26, 2020 at 9:38 pm
    Speaking of Clifton, I just saw something new to me.

    I’ve never seen a duplex built like 57 Althea. It looks like the guy built a duplex on a 100 x 100 lot, where each side is styled as center-hall colonial (albeit, attached). Interesting project, but I wonder if he would have done better by subdividing the 100 x 100 lot and just building two seperate houses with a similar footprint and a small alley in between near the property line.

    57 Althea
    $1.2m for new construction duplex
    100 x 100
    10 bed
    6 bath

    https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/57-Althea-St_Clifton_NJ_07013_M51718-55858?view=qv

  341. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And anyone that puts me down or calls me an idiot…remember the amazing calls on this board. I have been wrong only once…on nhmd. A lesson I had to pay to learn in life. I was up big on it, but lost my entire position. It was like a college lesson, I learned a lot about the market and how it works through that stock. I could never understand the market like I do if I had only played on the blue chips.

    Even PLUG, which they laughed at me on this board for, is at 13.05. I was recommending it here at 1.50-3 range. Thanks lib, for putting me down and making me feel like an idiot for investing in it. Dic!head! You cost me a lot of money with your bs.

  342. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Even at 2 dollars I would have made almost 7 times my initial investment on plug in 5 years. F u, lib! Had to belittle me.

  343. ExEssex says:

    Clifton HS is rated a “3” that is dismal.

  344. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Still sending its top students to IVY leagues.

    ExEssex says:
    August 26, 2020 at 10:37 pm
    Clifton HS is rated a “3” that is dismal.

  345. Vornado says:

    I thank the lord i went all in with my wife’s 401k

    I … I … my wife’s

    Snicker

  346. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yea, picture that, the teacher giving his corporate wife winning lottery ticket advice on her 401k. She loves me.

    Vornado says:
    August 26, 2020 at 10:40 pm
    I thank the lord i went all in with my wife’s 401k

    I … I … my wife’s

    Snicker

  347. The Great Pumpkin says:
  348. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Writing was on the wall, folks. Just remember, this is the beginning of this run in jersey.

  349. Vornado says:

    Where is your pile of money from all your calls?

    And please give it a rest, we have you on record. The economy is either about to take off or crash. Noted.

  350. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Okay, hater. I have nothing to prove. My past calls speak for themselves.

  351. ExEssex says:

    10:40 you realize that’s a failing school. They aren’t teaching most of the kids that pass through that system much. It’s called an achievement gap.

  352. The Great Pumpkin says:

    The United States Food and Drug Administration granted emergency use authorization to a 15-minute COVID-19 test produced by Abbott Laboratories (NYSE:ABT) on Wednesday.

    What Happened:The BinaxNOW COVID-19 test, priced at $5, is capable of delivering test results without laboratory instrumentation and comes with an accompanying smartphone app that patients can use to display their results at no cost, Abbott said in a statement.

    The FDA granted the EUA with a caveat that negative results of the test don’t rule out infection with SARS-COV-2 and the test should not be used as the sole basis for treatment.

    The drugmaker said it will start shipping tens of millions of these tests in September and plans to ramp up supply to 50 million tests a month at the beginning of October.

  353. njtownhomer says:

    I think the ongoing WFH wave will make a political impact too. TX, UT, AZ, NM, NV, FL, NC are popular states out of NYC, Chi, SF, SanJose etc.

    I bet it will help Dems more. Consider a big TX flip to blue in 4 years or so. Just look at suburban Houston to see the impact.

  354. ExEssex says:

    Amazing really. Judging a school because they send someone to Harvard every once in a while. There are hundreds of great colleges just waiting for these kids to drop out of….

  355. BoomerRemover says:

    I would pay for Pumpkin free access to this feed.

  356. Vornado says:

    6 months ago:
    Anyone who moves away from NY/NJ is a loser. They can’t cut it in the big leagues. Businesses leaving the area were dying anyway. Industries change over time. Some die off and are replaced by new ones. NY/NJ is in a transition period becoming a tech hub capital of the world. It’s all cycles. Think people. Use logic. Simple as that.

    Today:
    Technology will destroy us. The Luddites were correct.

  357. grim says:

    Murphy is that kid in class that copies the work of his classmate and gets caught because he copied the wrong answer. New Jersey has a death rate of 180 per 100,000. That pretty much puts us as the worst in the world.

    Isn’t this pretty much exactly what happened? Didn’t NJ copy the NY order almost down to the word?

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