C19 Open Discussion Week 61

Updated Vaccination by Age Range for NJ:
4/27 vs 4/30

At Least 1 Dose
Total Pop: 9.2m (UPDATED FOR NEW CENSUS)
Total 1st Doses: 4.3m – 46% of total pop (Flat from 46%) – Bloomberg reporting 52%

16-17 – 240k population – 43k dosed – 18% 1 dose (Flat from 18%)
18-29 – 1.5m population – 473k dosed – 32% 1 Dose (Flat from 32%)
30-49 – 2.4m population – 1.2m dosed – 50% 1 Dose (Up from 48%)
50-64 – 2m population – 1.2m dosed – 60% 1 Dose (Down from 63%)
65-79 – 1.1m population – 1.0m dosed – 91% 1 Dose (Flat from 91%)
80+ – 415k population – 344k dosed – 83% 1 Dose (Up from 82%)

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143 Responses to C19 Open Discussion Week 61

  1. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    New York City Is Roaring Back to Life, One Year After Its Nadir

    Rush hour traffic is back. Noise complaints are picking up. And it’s once again difficult to score a reservation at your favorite brunch spot.

    When the pandemic emptied New York City’s streets last year, some declared it dead. But after a terrible, painful year, the city is now defying those declarations — and getting its mojo back.

    More than half of adult New Yorkers have had at least one vaccine shot, and Covid-19 cases and hospitalizations are dropping sharply. Museums are back to 50% capacity, and movie theaters are at 33%. Soon, a midnight curfew on bars and restaurants will be lifted. “Shakespeare in the Park” is coming back, albeit with an abridged schedule.

    Parks and outdoor areas — safer places, of course, to congregate during an airborne pandemic — have been jammed. People are starting to take their masks off outside, following guidance from the Centers for Disease Control. Central Park, Prospect Park and Washington Square Park have all surpassed their pre-pandemic crowd levels, according to Orbital Insight, a data company that tracks the movement of goods and people.
    Even rents appear to be stabilizing, and tourists are booking their trips. Mayor Bill de Blasio said on Thursday that New York City is moving to fully reopen by July 1, with everything from arenas and gyms to stores and hair salons returning.

    While thousands of New Yorkers are still suffering from the long-term health and economic effects of the pandemic, and offices are still mostly empty, in many little ways, things are returning to normal. That’s making people optimistic about the future of the city that took one of the hardest, and earliest, hits in the U.S. from the novel coronavirus.

  2. Grim says:

    NJ Rt down to 0.54!

    Memorial Day at the shore, here we come.

  3. Bystander says:

    So if NJ, Westchester and CT suburbs went nuts in appreciation due to pandemic fear and Fed monkey work, what happens when NYC roars back? It feels like desperation to get people spending again. I think a large portion of people will remain cautious, some forever.

  4. Hold my beer says:

    Bystander

    I wonder how many of these new buyers will either be stuck in those houses for years or become cash flow negative landlords if they decide to move back to the city

  5. Fast Eddie says:

    NJ Rt down to 0.54!

    What is this number? Transmission rate? Where’s the chart or graph over time? I need a reference point.

  6. ExEssex says:

    9:45 you need a hero….

  7. Bystander says:

    Hold,

    I reviewed sales in my area over last 8 months and I can tell you that $270 per sq ft for newly, updated home was standard for 5 years, probably dropped to $260 from 2016 – 2019. People who bought during COVID paid $295 – $300. I checked on flip up the street and husband works in NYC for Amazon, Auto parts division. They paid $760k for a place that should have gone for $675k max, pre covid. It will be long, long walk home…or commute home I should say. Luckily my IB said no return to work if you are uncomfortable. Feeling uncomfortable..so are many.

  8. Juice Box says:

    Daily doses trending down. Need to get this number up, start sending out gift cards to Applebees or iHop or Red Lobster!

    https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccination-trends

  9. Bystander says:

    I also think we are on the cusp of people seeing new tax bills. In my area, July is when first new 2020 assessed value is utilized for prop taxes calc. Has there even been article or mention of it? I successfully fought assessement so my taxes may remain flat (depends on mill rate increase. My town trying for insane 1.63% increase. Republicans btw). There is a sledge hammer waiting to hit the millions who distracted from the real game.

  10. Hold my beer says:

    Karen of the day. Falsely accused a Latino couple of trying to kidnap her children so she could gain followers on Instagram

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9534359/Wannabe-momfluencer-charged-fake-tale-Latino-couple-trying-snatch-kids.html

  11. Hold my beer says:

    Is social media making people crazier, or is attracting crazy amoral people?

  12. Bystander says:

    Doddering old f&ck..in others I don’t know what could happen nor do I care as long as I am makes billlions more. How about wages, Warren? Waiting on that one, right?

    Among the Federal Reserve’s purchases: government debt. Those actions allowed the Trump and Biden administrations to issue debt at lower rates, to finance the massive relief packages that sent trillions to households and businesses.

    “It causes stocks to go up, it causes business to flourish, it causes an electorate to be happy, and we’ll see if it causes anything else,” Buffet said.

  13. BRT says:

    Social media is designed to rile people up at this point. It keeps their attention more. The entire media system has done this. Even ESPN, friggin sporting news….they just try to p1ss you off.

    They have a weekly debate, who’s better, Lebron or Jordan. They say the same thing every single time! But it pisses off the young kids and the older generation simultaneously. And they watch the next debate. They’ve been doing this for like 3 years straight.

  14. TheGoodTheBadAndJunkieEddieUgly says:

    Hold my beer my 2cents is that is giving communicational space to borderline and fringe worlds, that in the past someone would have ignore because it was coming from the crazy corner.

    Add to that the results of assualt on “what is the truth or believe me and not your lying eyes” and as Hannah Arendt says ” The result of a consistent and total substitution of lies for factual truth is not that the lie will now be accepted as truth, and truth be defamed as lie, but that the sense by which we take our bearings in the real world – and the category of truth versus falsehood is among the mental means to this end – is being destroyed.”

    So no one says, shut the hell up – you are a nutjob, and a lot of lunatic ramblings have taken over the public spheres that was already heavy with propaganda manipulation from vested commercial and political interests. Presenting and magnifying opinions that seem “evilish” extreme, like the hoopla about reaching virus protection by letting the “weak” die off with population herd immunity from the likes of Modi, Trump, Bolsonaro, in which all they did is prove Carlo Cipolla right that they are “stupid people” because all they did is hurt themselves and others.

    Again from Arendt. “It is indeed my opinion now that evil is never “radical,” that it is only extreme, and that it possess neither depth nor any demonic dimension. It can overgrow and lay waste the whole world precisely because it spreads like fungus on the surface. It is “thought-defying,” as I said, because thought tries to reach some depth, to go to the roots, and the moment it concerns itself with evil, it is frustrated because there is nothing. That is its “banality.” Only the good has depth and can be radical.”

  15. Juice Box says:

    re: “social media making people crazier”

    Nah just another way to not have to get a real job, become an influencer and a model etc. I am sure there are millions of them out there but only less than one percent have the millions of followers to make a living it it. Estimates are less that 25,000 have millions of followers on Youtube for example. Most have only a few thousand subscribers.

    I was down at Sandy Hook this morning. There was at least two influencers shooting down there on the bay side. What gave it away was the tripod, and of course the posing.

  16. Libturd says:

    I’ve never gone yaya over celebrities and I’ve met a fair share of them. The few I’ve been able to speak with, realize how lucky they are and almost seem relieved to get the chance to speak with someone who isn’t a fanboy or fangirl. When Daniel was sick, the number of celebrities who do charity work down in CHOP is really cool.

    I had a while to speak with the Cake Boss, Buddy V. Ballys hired him to make a gigantic roulette and slot machine cake for their 50th birthday (I think) during his real heyday. He had been working like a complete dog and all of the whales were getting their pictures taken with him in front of the cakes. I could care less about a photo and told him I would bring him a beer at the end of the event. I kept my promise and we chatted for quite a while. If you ever want to see a celebrity who appreciates their fortune, it’s him. I invited him to gamble with me for a while, but he had to clean up the kitchen.

    Humans are really strange animals. We have this innate desire to revere those with celebrity to the point of cult fanaticism. It’s bizarre to me.

  17. Juice Box says:

    I rented an apartment from Buddy’s family, used to drop the rent off at the shop in Hoboken. This was a few years before cake boss fame. Nice down to earth Italian family,

  18. Libturd says:

    Other cool celebs I’ve met include Wayne Gretzky at the World’s about twenty year’s ago in Montreal. He was like every other Canadian fan there. He made fun of my USA jersey and then really got the crowd roaring when he found out I was from New Jersey. I got even. I told him he would have made twice the money if he played his entire career on American teams where the fans would have appreciated him more. It was a pretty funny exchange. Dude is so cool, he stands outside the arena before most big games and is completely fan assessable. He often walks around the seats during the game too like an ambassador. Phil Esposito used to do that too back in the day. For whatever reason, hockey celebs are always so down to earth compared with the other pro athletes I’ve met. Perhaps it’s due to the lack of popularity of the sport?

  19. Grim says:

    Agree, I met tons of the Devils players at South Orange.

    They were happy to help you get full sets of signatures on Jerseys, because they knew you were a fan of you were waiting in the lot to catch them.

  20. BRT says:

    Never was wowed by celebs either. But saw a lot at Nets game. Joe Piscopo was a great dude. Bill Murray too. He would just sit in the middle of the crowd and hang out. Bruce Willis was a drunk but a good guy. Ashton Kutcher and P Diddy would sit courtside. When they would go in halftime, they would sign for kids at least 5 minutes every time. At least Diddy, no one cared about Ashton haha.

  21. 3b says:

    Lib: It’s like the obsession with the royal family, never understood it.

  22. Juice BOx says:

    Pool is open for business and so is my Hotub Time machine. Kids were excited to be swimming again even the dog got into the action……BBQ tonight with neighbors and firepit will be lit… should be fun summer is here early at least for a few days anyway.

    There were quite a few cars at the beach parking lots in Sandy Hook this morning. Not really a great beach day but not a bad one either as it’s 82 degrees and sunny right now.

  23. Libturd says:

    Let us know your gas bill when it comes Juice.

  24. EzEssex says:

    I met John Malkovich once. He was pretty cool. Twas in Chicago.
    My guitar tech has some pretty cool stories about the folks he’s worked with: GnR, Yes, and Fogerty. Axl is a health nut fwiw.
    I want to write the tech’s bio and call it “unstrung hero”.

  25. EzEssex says:

    I once was pissing in a Mens room in Chicago,
    I looked over and Bo Diddley was pissing next to me.
    We struck up a conversation. He was a very nice guy.

  26. Grim says:

    Ran into Tori Spelling in a hotel elevator in Utah.

  27. The Great Pumpkin says:

    The people that left the city were always going to leave the city. Wish you guys would listen to me, but you never do.

    Bystander says:
    May 2, 2021 at 7:57 am
    So if NJ, Westchester and CT suburbs went nuts in appreciation due to pandemic fear and Fed monkey work, what happens when NYC roars back? It feels like desperation to get people spending again. I think a large portion of people will remain cautious, some forever.

  28. NJCoast says:

    The stories I could tell about backstage shenanigans over the last 30 years.

  29. Libturd says:

    I got high with Cypress Hill and stole their equalizer.

  30. grim says:

    NJC has met pretty much everybody.

  31. Fast Eddie says:

    It appears that we’re slightly above 50% vaccinated in NJ. I assume the 16 to 50 age range is pulling down that number as opposed to 50 and up. I’ll let you guys extrapolate. Anyway, this trend below looks promising:

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/new-jersey/

  32. leftwing says:

    There have always been crazy people out there. Mostly they were marginalized by family, co-workers, etc so no one really saw the extent of their craziness. And if you inadvertently ran into one of them in public you didn’t know you simply exited.

    These portable video cameras each of us carries now lets us simply document and share what has always existed. Not insignificant swathes of humanity are stupid, crazy, or evil.

  33. grim says:

    It appears that we’re slightly above 50% vaccinated in NJ.

    We’re above 50% for single dose, below that for full course. However, if UK is any example (and they are), achieving a high enough single dose is enough to make a significant impact.

    Keep in mind – for NJ we’ve only just recently opened up below 55, so yes, it’s the younger/healthier that drag that down. The 65+ numbers are in the territory necessary for herd immunity.

  34. grim says:

    We’re going to see Pfizer opened up to 12-15 year olds in the next 30 days, which should help. Expect to see a pretty sizable jump in this age range through the summer and up to the start of the school year. If there was ever a “Summer of Play” – this is going to be it.

    Get out your lawn darts, slip and slide, and roller skates, it’s going to be like the 70s and 80s all over again.

  35. BRT says:

    Wasn’t it only a month ago when our CDC director was on TV with an epic crying performance stating she had a feeling of impending doom?

  36. Hold my beer says:

    One for common sense. Critical race theory candidates defeated in southlake election.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9536685/Anti-woke-faction-opposed-critical-race-theory-wins-Texas-school-board-race.html

    Southlake is the most affluent town in DFW area. Average household income is over 200k and median is over 180k. It’s about 80% white and 10% Asian. It has a high end plaza that has an Apple store and Tesla showroom.

  37. The Great Pumpkin says:

    The woke movement was needed, but not the extremism that first came with it…knocking down statues and trying to erase history. But that’s how history works…extremism (emotion fueled by anger) serves its purpose for a given period, and then is thrown away for a middle ground.

    Hold my beer says:
    May 3, 2021 at 8:09 am
    One for common sense. Critical race theory candidates defeated in southlake election.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9536685/Anti-woke-faction-opposed-critical-race-theory-wins-Texas-school-board-race.html

  38. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yup. They were never given a platform and were locked away hidden by their families…

    So only their neighbors and immediate family knew who the crazies were.

    leftwing says:
    May 3, 2021 at 7:24 am
    There have always been crazy people out there.

  39. leftwing says:

    So CNBC on in the background, spurring a couple points on COVID…

    Gottlieb gets interviewed there daily, around 6:30a or so. I hope those videos are on someone’s website, the man is the voice of science and reason.

    Anyway, in response to a question if firms ought to impose vaccination requirements on their employees Gottlieb pulled in a point on children’s vaccinations that was interesting.

    His statement was that we know anecdotally that children have a much more robust response than adults to a single dose yet we have no observations or data on the duration of that response. Bottom line, we simply don’t have adequate supporting data in children.

    Regarding the Yale clinicals on older children which is the basis of Pfizer’s submission for approval in older children the data is not yet public or peer reviewed. One piece of data we do have is that the two legs in the study – vaccination and control – had about 1,100 participants each. The headline from the trial was that the vaccination group had no symptomatic cases. 100% efficacy. Fair enough, great. More interesting to me is that only 18 participants in the control group exhibited symptoms. That is a 1.6% rate. For symptoms.

    For emphasis – Yale’s clinical study that is the basis for approval of the Pfizer vaccination at the FDA shows that a child has a 98.4% probability of remaining symptom-free WITHOUT the vaccine…..

    Lastly, on new data demonstrating how our knowledge of this virus’s transmission continues to evolve there was a recent peer reviewed study released by two MIT professors that quantifies certain variables in viral transmission which concludes different vulnerabilities than current best practices regarding ventilation, filtration, and the six foot rule. https://www.pnas.org/content/118/17/e2018995118

    Good day all.

  40. leftwing says:

    “Yup. They were never given a platform and were locked away hidden by their families…So only their neighbors and immediate family knew who the crazies were.”

    Too bad for us the internet offered you a platform to come out here.

    To other posters, sorry, I promised not to respond to him but this was just a big, fat underhand softball pitch…..

  41. grim says:

    Was hoping the movement would finally take down the UK monarchy, but for some reason it’s not been the case. I guess the dream of being instagram influencer prince and princesses trumps the history of colonialism and oppression.

  42. grim says:

    More interesting to me is that only 18 participants in the control group exhibited symptoms. That is a 1.6% rate. For symptoms.

    For emphasis – Yale’s clinical study that is the basis for approval of the Pfizer vaccination at the FDA shows that a child has a 98.4% probability of remaining symptom-free WITHOUT the vaccine…..

    They tested both groups on a regular basis? This is news to me. When I was going through the enrollment process on the AZ study, they did not mention regular testing, and they mentioned ALOT. Sure, probably a different protocol, but still.

    How can you make the assumption of 98.4% symptom free without knowing how many were actually infected and symptom free? You can’t assume the inverse, that would mean everyone in the control group was infected.

  43. grim says:

    I mean, if you want to call out bias in the data, I’d argue that the 12-15yo’s enrolled in the study were done so because their parents were over-cautious. This is something you need to actively seek out, decide to take part in. There is no way you get an unbiased group in this age cohort, even with placebo. Any parent that’s going to actively seek out a vax trial for their kid is going to exhibit an overabundance of caution, period.

  44. BRT says:

    Given that healthcare workers were 84% less likely to be reinfected after 8 months, and those that were, only 9% were symptomatic. Basically, 90% of people with a previous infection will not be symptomatic on 2nd infection. If the adult population is vaccinated, this is a total nothingburger moving forward. The year will be 2030, a 10 year old today will have graduated high school and may have been exposed to the virus 20 times over, and never have even had a sniffle.

  45. leftwing says:

    Interesting take on the UK monarchy…

    On one hand it can be viewed as totally anachronistic and out of step with modern society and governance….

    On the other hand there are several traits that define what it means to be a country…two of the most relevant being common culture and ideals.

    The US is a country based entirely – actually, founded – on ideals. There is no common culture. Historically speaking, our nation is an infant.

    Other countries are further defined by an aged or deep culture…history, religion, etc.

    The British are British not just because of the Magna Carta, the French are French not just because of the revolution. The deep history and common culture of these people tether their citizenry.

    As the US devolves into smaller and smaller warring factions and a deep questioning arises of the ideals that underscored its entire founding there is no common culture to bind us. We are performing without a safety net.

    Countries like France, Britain, Austria, the Nordic states, even Italy whose citizenry share a common culture have a binding that can keep their states centered during times of political change.

    If the cost is some pomp and circumstance, some misbehaving fringe family members, and few tens of millions of dollars of from the annual budget it’s probably a worthwhile tradeoff for society.

  46. BRT says:

    Countries like France, Britain, Austria, the Nordic states, even Italy whose citizenry share a common culture have a binding that can keep their states centered during times of political change.

    At this point, the US would function better as 50 independent states with no federal government. The thing that I don’t get is that everyone agrees. The coastal states talk about how much greater we could be if we just get rid of those red states. The red states say the same thing about the coasts. At what point do we actually agree in lock step and separate?

  47. leftwing says:

    “How can you make the assumption of 98.4% symptom free without knowing how many were actually infected and symptom free?”

    “I mean, if you want to call out bias in the data…”

    You’re making my point.

    The data is inadequate. Personally, I would go further and question the structure of the trial including endpoint if it is in fact symptomatic infection (which is the data set they appear to be submitting for approval). Why symptomatic infection when it has been apparently demonstrated transmission can be from an asymptomatic individual?

    Gottlieb’s comment on duration was in the context of children potentially only requiring one shot given the robustness of their response. there is no trial data to evaluate number of doses. Further, as someone pointed out here last week, the control group on the adults were ‘broken’, ie vaccinated, so there is no way to conduct post-marketing analysis of the two groups.

    Bottom line, scientific method and FDA practices have been tossed out the window for these trials. Which, not surprisingly, is the actual definition of an EMA. And why I gave my adult children no advice regarding vaccination and let them decide on their own.

  48. leftwing says:

    Regarding the symptomatic rate, from the Yale clinical trial I posted last week…

    “Among the 2,260 trials participants, there were no symptomatic COVID-19 cases in those who received the vaccine, compared to 18 symptomatic cases in the placebo group. The study enrolled participants in January and went on for about two months after vaccine completion, Dr. Ogbuagu says. The companies did not yet release detailed data from the trial and the results have not yet been peer-reviewed. “

  49. leftwing says:

    n=1,131 in one group and 1,329 in the other.

  50. Libturd says:

    Left,

    I read that study in PNAS word for word. Yes, the 6-foot rule was not an exact science. But it does provide a reasonable amount of protection for the average schmo who is still too stupid to wear a mask in a restaurant when they are not eating. In March of last year, there was a memorable study shared on the blog revealing a lot of what these two have estimated mathematically in regards to the jet plumes of aerosols. They even created a video showing why supermarkets were some of the most dangerous places to be, while I was damning the population for running into massively overcrowded supermarkets, maskless, to stockpile food and supplies unnecessarily. Is it important to point out to the world that simply separating by six foot distance isn’t the end all be all and there are 100s of other variables at play. But this study does again support the huge roll mouth diapers (as our biggest cheerleader on the right likes to call them) play in the reduction of plume creation. I did learn some new things too, including that nose breathing is hardly likely to create a plume versus say, talking or singing.

    Ultimately, that linked study was pretty much common sense proven. I think the bigger concern is that common sense is thrown out the window when the masses don’t have any. Nonetheless, it’s good to have numbers to go by, rather than anecdotes.

    I also finally watched Totally Under Control. Though there is certainly some intentional leftwing bias in the film. There’s an awful lot of truth shared as well. Right from the president’s mouth. If anyone thinks he didn’t know what was coming and chose to put it on a back burner early on to try save his electability, you are simply kidding yourselves. But I highly doubt any right winger here will watch it.

  51. leftwing says:

    1129…..

  52. grim says:

    Is there any way to ethically carry out a study on the efficacy of reducing transmission? I mean, you would need to knowingly expose unvaccinated individuals in a controlled setting. Perhaps a primate study?

    Otherwise, you need to study population level data, after the fact.

  53. leftwing says:

    Lib, just pointing out all the unknowns still unknown and that we are continuing to proceed to operate in an environment of information deficit.

    At times making decisions with imperfect data is appropriate, like in March, 2020. At other times the line is crossed where the cost/benefit see-saw leans the opposite way. For me, we’ve crossed that line. Put down the panic, put down the religious like zealotry of ‘something has to be done’, and let’s take a pause to see what we actually know and how best to proceed. When that line is crossed is of course a personal decision so there is no right or wrong answer, just opinions based on interpretation of facts.

  54. BRT says:

    Apparently Christie is feeling out a 2024 run as potential VP. This guy is a grifter that just won’t go away.

  55. leftwing says:

    Re: any retrospective on government response and this virus I learned long ago when I was young and radicalized on an extremely liberal college campus taking film classes that there is no such thing as an unbiased documentary. Even the mere selection of a topic is subjective, not to mention nuances like filming angles and of course editing…..

    I saw a 60 Minute segment last night that included commentary on virus response that by omission of fact would have received a failing grade in a community college if written as a term paper.

    I literally cannot quantify for you how far below zero my interest is to watch any purported documentary on ‘what happened’ involving politicians, especially involving a politician so hated by people with the political leanings of your typical filmmaker….

  56. Libturd says:

    Left,

    America’s culture is the MELTING POT. There is simply nowhere else on earth with such a mix of cultures. Over time, these differences blend into a common culture. Like Goa in India with Portuguese, British and Indian influences or even down in the Bayou in Louisiana with the mix of French, Black and Native American cultures.

    Also, I was thinking along the same lines as Grim about the parent that’s going to actively seek out a vax trial for their kid is going to exhibit an overabundance of caution, period. We signed our oldest son up for the Yale trial. I would estimate that a third of his friends have had Covid (they got sick) already. Who knows how many just carried it. But I would be willing to bet the house that he never got it. We’ve been overly careful based on science. Even though three of the five in our household are still vaccinated. We are still not willing to eat out unless it’s outside and spread out and we still don’t shop in person. Yeah. Overly cautious. Incidentally, it’s always amazing to me how every family “thinks” they are being overcautious until they get it. Then you find out that their definition of being cautious includes flying, not quarantining when returning home and not even quarantining properly when infected with Covid. Sure, it’s impossible to be 100% safe, but it wasn’t that difficult to avoid getting it either. It just takes discipline. Something American’s definitely lack.

  57. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Then you take away what makes America great. The extremists from each side always have their power checked by the other party over time. One party govts will destroy themselves over time if left to an echo chamber of political positions and freely acting on it.

    BRT says:
    May 3, 2021 at 10:05 am
    Countries like France, Britain, Austria, the Nordic states, even Italy whose citizenry share a common culture have a binding that can keep their states centered during times of political change.

    At this point, the US would function better as 50 independent states with no federal government. The thing that I don’t get is that everyone agrees. The coastal states talk about how much greater we could be if we just get rid of those red states. The red states say the same thing about the coasts. At what point do we actually agree in lock step and separate?

  58. 3b says:

    Left: I would not say the UK is all that united, it’s more of a facade at this point. There is Everett possibility Scotland will be gone in the next few years, and the English Midlands and northwest are as far away from London, as the Deep South is away from the US coasts. The young people for the most part wanted to stay in the EU and the old timers did not, so you have a generation divide as well. Brexit was really more of an English project than a British thing. The empire is gone now and so this whole British identity thing is not what it once was.

  59. leftwing says:

    “At this point, the US would function better as 50 independent states with no federal government. The thing that I don’t get is that everyone agrees.”

    I always thought for the reasons I described that the US would eventually devolve into separate ‘nations’.

    I now believe that actually ought to happen.

    A non-contentious divorce. Make sure each party is taken care of. Peaceful. Friendly, open borders. Make the Old US and New US relations similar to current US and Canada relations.

    We are two different nations in fact. Make it practice.

    The above is said with no emotion, remorse, or anger. It’s observational reality. Make it happen.

  60. 3b says:

    BRT: I think it’s more of a coastal city thing , then whole states. Upstate New York is culturally more similar in many ways to the south or Midwest than they are to NYC. I would guess Northern California would be similar as well. The US might be better off as a confederation than a federation.

  61. leftwing says:

    “America’s culture is the MELTING POT. There is simply nowhere else on earth with such a mix of cultures. Over time, these differences blend into a common culture.”

    That is the ideal and what used to happen.

    The reality now is entirely the opposite direction. Assimilation is a dirty word. Fracturing into and maintaining separate identities is of the highest value now.

  62. Libturd says:

    “Fracturing into and maintaining separate identities is of the highest value now.”

    This will rotate back. Just watch.

  63. The Great Pumpkin says:

    You guys sound like pro-Chinese with your one party govts.

    Pissing on what really makes America great. Two party system and compromise.

  64. leftwing says:

    3b, agree. My bad for conflating Britain/UK and England.

    My points still stand regarding nations with strong versus weaker cultures while not perfect.

    Three or four engine mounts are always better than one…..

  65. leftwing says:

    “This will rotate back. Just watch.”

    We’ll see. I don’t really care, I’ll be dead.

    Keep in mind, in agreement with you things do snap back. Unless they break first.

  66. 3b says:

    The two party system is broken, and has been for years.

  67. 3b says:

    Lib: By the time it rotates back it may be too late.

  68. leftwing says:

    “The two party system is broken, and has been for years.”

    I think if the US were to separate into two entities a two party system would actually work.

    The differences would be shades of grey. Compromise, resolution, and action would be much more likely.

    Unlike today, where there is black and white. Too wide a gap.

    Under a devolved system you may even see multi-parties arise, and work well.

  69. Fast Eddie says:

    We are two different nations in fact. Make it practice.

    The only question is whether to build walls around the individual nations of liberty, individual effort and free enterprise to repel the nations of communal s0c1alism. Who else will feed and cloth the woke masses when they turn against each other in accusation? They’ll be pounding on our gates for basic survival when left to consume nothing more than the parchment that outlines the various “-isms” of their S0c1al Justice Warri0r doctrine. Symbols and slogans don’t taste very good even when salt is applied.

  70. Bystander says:

    I love the smell of internet tough guy, civil war talk in the morning.

  71. Libturd says:

    He only talks that way because his side has been stockpiling guns, while we’ve been burning our books.

  72. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I have not seen one side dominate for an extended period of time. It’s working. Let’s just look at nj as an example: blue state that votes Republican governors into office.

    3b says:
    May 3, 2021 at 10:55 am
    The two party system is broken, and has been for years.

  73. Phoenix says:

    “Keep in mind, in agreement with you things do snap back. Unless they break first.”

    Bingo.

  74. BRT says:

    Then you take away what makes America great. The extremists from each side always have their power checked by the other party over time. One party govts will destroy themselves over time if left to an echo chamber of political positions and freely acting on it.

    Please, dark blue NJ had a Red gov for 8 years recently. Deep dark blue Cali elected a Red Cybernetic Organism as their gov not too long ago. The point was, the fed gov is increasingly become way to parasitic and is killing the host. The bad part is, it’s letting densely populated areas exert their will on sparsely populated areas because of this.

  75. Juice Box says:

    So Deblasio said 80,000 NYC government workers can return to their offices as of today, offices have been closed for more than a year. I wonder how well that is going?

  76. Libturd says:

    “Unless they break first.”

    I would agree with you, but I don’t think politicians from either party care about the cultural war they created. Remember, politicians are in it for themselves. They would never vote to break us apart. Neither party. All that matters to them is that the gravy train of money in politics keeps chugging down that track. Quite frankly, I think the so-called news networks (which resemble daytime tabloid television way more than any news source) are the perpetrators of this divisive mess. The politicians are as dumb as the populace (perhaps dumber) so they’ve latched on.

    Think about it, when news breaks, do you guys turn to CNN/MSNBC/FoxNews anymore? That’s the last channel I would turn to. It’s like what happened to the Weather channel. Once again, that’s the last place I go for a forecast or during a weather related emergency or crisis.

    In other news, we are starting to lose Indian workers to the Chinese hoax. Just lost one of our best (of 15 years).

  77. Libturd says:

    Sorry. Democratic Hoax (somehow).

  78. crushednjmillenial says:

    ETH over $3,000 for the first time in history as of late last night.

    Munger says crypto is “disgusting and contrary to the interests of civilization.”

    I disagree with Munger. In BTC, as long as people keep believing in it, we have a very good inflation hedge asset. Fiat can be printed, more gold can be mined, some going businesses are better or worse in an environment of inflation, land is not realistically inelastic because you can build taller buildings, but there are only 21m BTC. Indeed, less than 21m as people lose their hardware that is storing it or forget their access keys.

    Not saying BTC is necessarily a great investment, just that it should theoretically be a good inflation hedge.

  79. leftwing says:

    “I don’t think politicians from either party care about the cultural war they created. Remember, politicians are in it for themselves.”

    All the more reason for the populace to make the decision themselves.

  80. Phoenix says:

    I turn to the Daily Mail, using a filter that removes 90 percent of the ads on there.

    In 10 minutes you know the true state of America. With actual pictures and video, and no firewall.

    They don’t sugarcoat anything.

    Of course, typical tabloid stuff as well easy to avoid, always a health guru from Australia, and a daily Kardashian photo shoot. Easy to ignore.

  81. leftwing says:

    “ETH over $3,000 for the first time in history as of late last night.”

    Killing me……I’m way too conservative sometimes in my investments.

  82. Phoenix says:

    Left,
    I learned all I need to know about America from it’s court and justice systems.

    I know the game. No one taught it to me before. But I’m learning.

  83. leftwing says:

    Munger says crypto is “disgusting and contrary to the interests of civilization.””

    Just like Pelosi another human being that is statistically dead.

    If you have exceeded the average lifespan of a human at the time you were born you should be expressly prohibited from being in a decision making role that will have a material impact on current generations.

  84. EzEssex says:

    In separate news: Beyond Meat “spicy” sausage patties.
    Taste amazing.

  85. BRT says:

    Munger doesn’t like “something created out of nothing”. The guy is 96? I can’t expect him to understand technology. Ethereum has real value as a network. I would encourage people to read the white paper on the decentralized stablecoin Dai. What an amazing design for decentralized finance. Right now, you can earn 7% a year under that system and it’s maintained stability even through massive drops in ETH.

    I like Munger and own Berkshire, but he’s good at what he’s good at. You can’t teach a really really really old dog new tricks. I wouldn’t care about crypto either if my expected remaining lifespan is in the single digits.

  86. BRT says:

    Anyone care to predict what our fearless leader will announce this afternoon?

    75% indoor dining. He’s been Cuomo’s shadow the entire time. He might try to one up him and go 80%. I know a doctor who was on a call with a government leader in NJ a few weeks ago that said Murphy was planning full reopening for Memorial Day as a kick off to his reelection campaign.

  87. BRT says:

    BTC isn’t functioning as an inflation hedge yet. If it was, it would follow or slightly beat inflation. It’s growing in price based on adoption, which is 100% of the price gains. Same for ETH, growing due to adoption. When BTC finds it’s equilibrium value (100k, 500k, 1 million, $5?), then it will be an inflation hedge.

    I’m now 5 figures into Crypto. Shoulda just jumped all in January but averaged in. My Eth has performed a lot better than my BTC. A few more gains and I can take 50% off the table and play with house money.

  88. Bystander says:

    Lib,

    Lost for good? Our vendor team dev lead and app SME just contracted it in Pune. He is saying 1 week out. I hope so. Selfishly I have to wonder what is going through minds of the CIO/CTOs of every major company who put all their development and support in India. They will be ravaged. On another note, two more offers, two more declines in Pune. It is going to be interest times ahead.

  89. Juice Box says:

    100 % as of May 19th with 6ft and mask rules still in place.

    “Restaurants, gyms, personal services, movie theaters, stores, museums and amusement parks will be allowed operate without set capacity limits for the first time in more than a year, though people will still need to wear masks indoors and groups will need to be separated by six feet, Gov. Phil Murphy said in a joint announcement with New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo and Connecticut Gov. Ned Lamont.”

  90. Juice Box says:

    So Deblasio was saying July 1st for NYC and Cuomo just gave him the middle finger.

    “@NYGovCuomo announces the elimination of state mandated capacity restrictions in New York City on Wednesday, May 19th. That means restaurants, bars, retail, salons and live performances including Broadway can all reopen.”

  91. Fast Eddie says:

    How do you have a drink sitting at a bar with a mask on?

  92. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I think a big problem with crypto market….massive whales. They have too much power over price and can easily manipulate it.

  93. Libturd says:

    Water proof mask, feedbag style. Neighhhhhhh!

    Bystander, he died a couple of days ago. Was in good shape too.

  94. leftwing says:

    “I wouldn’t care about crypto either if my expected remaining lifespan is in the single digits.”

    Months, lol.

    “So Deblasio was saying July 1st for NYC and Cuomo just gave him the middle finger.”

    Old news. Been that way the whole pandemic. but it’s of course about the science and the citizenry’s well-being. Riiiiigghhht……

    “Anyone care to predict what our fearless leader will announce this afternoon?…He’s been Cuomo’s shadow the entire time.”

    And don’t forget the only reason Cuomo is moving is because the Assembly voted to strip him of his emergency powers so at this point if everything is going to be re-opened he may as well do it and entirely change his stance so he can at least claim some political credit…..

    Apt depiction of the processes of Cuomo and Murphy…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V83JR2IoI8k&ab_channel=ThomasDolby

  95. Libturd says:

    Their all politicians. They all behave exactly the same way. Sheesh.

  96. JCer says:

    Here’s the issue with Crypto, the intrinsic value is in the ability to exchange for hard currency or real goods. Fundamentally it is a technical solution to transaction processing and a technically superior platform or a technical failure of the platform renders the value of your BTC or ETH or whatever as much less valuable. Think of it like FIAT currency except new currencies can be created, the demand for a digital currency will determine what it’s value is. The Achilles heel of all digital currencies at this point is volatility. If I’m a business with a fixed production cost in USD or EUR or RMB how can I accept BTC as a payment when I’m not even sure what I can exchange it at? And no it is not analogous to forex which is a real difficulty for business anyhow as most currencies do not move like bitcoin does. Things like bitcoin are too revolutionary(also way too energy inefficient) to be the solution and the entrenched interests want to keep things as they are. Eventually through the use of technology we will effectively be able to drive transaction costs to zero and make them entirely digital. I just don’t think cryptocurrency is the technology that will do this and when it does happen it will be far more revolutionary.

    I’ve long thought government issued digital currency would become a reality as the ability to effectively police all transactions is too enticing for governments and technology has become and is becoming ridiculously cheap. Probably easier for the government to build an app and all the associated infrastructure than the cost of handling physical money.

  97. BRT says:

    Visa, Apple, and Paypal are going to create a secondary layer for transactions to occur. You’ll be able to transact in what you want and they’ll do it on their own network. That’s likely the reason paypal isn’t allowing you to take custody. They’ll just hold a pool of crypto and you can stake your claim on it from transaction or covert to dollars. They just want the fees anyway.

  98. 3b says:

    I don’t understand why I need a new I phone 6 mine is only 6 years old, but it’s slow, and can’t download my music and other apps. I guess they force you to after a certain time.

  99. crushednjmillenial says:

    You guys think Murphy keeps eviction ban in place through to the November election?

    He lifted all the business occupancy limits, but the eviction ban is still in effect. NJ new cases per day are falling very, very fast, so one would imagine at some point that the eviction ban becomes patently unreasonable, but I’m not sure about NJ politics on this issue. A perpetual eviction ban? The NJ Supreme Court of Clowns did let Murphy borrow that up to $9.9B last year even though the state constitution seemed to pretty specifically not permit that.

  100. leftwing says:

    BTC can’t ever be a currency by the standard definition of a currency, ie. the medium of exchange for goods and services, because of taxes.

    The US views BTC as property so every time it is exchanged that transaction is taxable (to your cost basis of BTC).

    Think of it this way…it’s as if the dollars you currently spend were benchmarked to the USD exchange rate on the payday you received them, and every time you spent them on something you have to calculate for the amount spent on that transaction whether the dollar has moved up (and book a gain on the difference) or down (and book a loss). The record keeping would be insane.

    BTC right now can be a store of value similar to stocks…Someone on CNBC, can’t recall who but not a BTC bull, threw some money at BTC a while back. As it crossed $50k the amount would pay off his mortgage so he liquidated and did so. No different than dumping AAPL to do the same.

    Big, one time transactions, yes. Daily spend, not until tax laws change.

  101. grim says:

    The scarcity of bitcoin (21m) is a complete mirage.

    There is no scarcity when bitcoin 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 can be created in a mouse click. There is no scarcity when any number of potential currencies can (and will) exist.

    The fact that it becomes harder to “mine” crypto as time goes on, makes this all but an absolute given. All it takes is a few market makers to move on a new variation. (Elon Musk and Dogecoin). Miners will simply move their operations to new currencies, increasing volatility. Hell, there is so much benefit in first-mover here, it’s a given.

    What’s the incentive to maintain the infrastructure necessary to operate a cryptocurrency once all the “coins are mined”. Nobody ever seems interested in answering this question. Ultimately, it means making coin supply infinite, or hoping someone will maintain the support structure for free (highly unlikely). Cue Visa and MasterCard, maybe they’ll take over the transaction processing networks in exchange for a small fee per transaction?

  102. Libturd says:

    The eviction ban doesn’t end for 2 months after the emergency (whatever that is) is lifted. So he can wait until August or September and it still won’t be a problem. The list of backlogged freeloaders is so endless, that he can probably end the ban today and it probably wouldn’t affect his election plans. It will take three years minimum to work these through the courts. Heck, there are a ton of cases that are backlogged jamming up the courts already due to Covid. Last I looked, the government’s prediction is that 30 to 40% of rentals were impacted. 34% of American’s rent. Back of the envelope math says that’s 38 million Americans at 2.5 people per rental, or 15 million evictions. How long do you think THAT will take?

  103. Libturd says:

    “What’s the incentive to maintain the infrastructure necessary to operate a cryptocurrency once all the “coins are mined”. Nobody ever seems interested in answering this question. Ultimately, it means making coin supply infinite””

    This is exactly how I explained the problem with bitcoins to my son (as his former Doge coin investment passed 40 cents which he bought at ten and sold at six).

    I am becoming more and more concerned that crypto is going to be the black swan that ends this bull market. Total market value is now 2 trillion doubling in the last two months. At this rate, it will be ten trillion by the of the year. The entire us Markets are only valued at 50 trillion. When 10 trillion of 60 trillion vanishes overnight, (like BTC showed us it can do when it dropped 50% in 2 days last March) the whole market will plunge with it. This is why I wouldn’t touch it. The guy who paid off his mortgage is brilliant.

    As for the person here playing with house money? Remember, it even hurts to lose your gains. Take half of it and buy an asset or pay off your mortgage. THEN, let it ride.

  104. Bystander says:

    Per FT:

    International banks are pulling capacity out of India to relieve pressure on staff suffering from the country’s intense second coronavirus wave, as regulators consult with lenders about the potential impact of the crisis. UK lenders Barclays, NatWest and Standard Chartered, which between them directly employ more than 50,000 staff in India, have all been putting non-essential work on hold or diverting business to employees in other countries and stepping up support for India-based staff in recent days. Jes Staley, Barclays chief executive, said on Friday: “We are shifting some capacity to the UK, India is a very tough place right now.” He said the bank has taken steps such as asking staff in the UK, including those in branches, to take more calls and work longer hours. “India is critically important for us . . . I’m sympathetic to what is going on,” he added. India is the world’s largest back-office and outsourcing hub, with some 4m employees doing everything from answering customer-service calls to providing research for investment banks and hedge funds. The country reported a world record 386,000 Covid-19 infections on Friday, along with 3,500 reported deaths. Experts believe those numbers are a significant undercount.

  105. BRT says:

    I have plenty of assets. Crypto is about 3% of my liquid wealth right now. I’ve put 10 times as much into stocks this past 6 months alone. If I were heavy in crypto, I would definitely be taking gains off the table.

  106. Libturd says:

    Cool. Me thinks your gift horse is headed to the glue factory soon. Not that I wish this on anybody, but I’ve seen this too many times before.

  107. Libturd says:

    If I owned wipro or cognizant. I would immediately sell and move into accenture.

  108. BRT says:

    It might, but I’m ok with that. It’s just one of many possible hedges against the inevitable currency crisis that will occur. I’d rather that not happen and my salary still be worth something.

  109. The Great Pumpkin says:

    So how long before landlords resort to mafia tactics to get their money?

    My tenant owes me over $10,000. He owns a landscaping business. Pandemic really hurt him. I so want his face to meet Louisville slugger.

    “The list of backlogged freeloaders is so endless,”

  110. Sheilafum says:

    Rather excellent idea and it is duly

  111. No One says:

    Why not both?

    Hold my beer says:
    May 2, 2021 at 11:13 am
    Is social media making people crazier, or is attracting crazy amoral people?

  112. Libturd says:

    What’s going to happen when everyone sells their crypto at the same time. Like when it drops 25% in one day? It’s not backed by anything but the next fool. Crypto might one day have a place in the economy. But not at these valuations. This is pure lunacy.

  113. Libturd says:

    I’m not lying, I just went out on my deck to tend to my smoked pork butt (making pulled pork for dinner). I overheard the landscaper next door talking to his buddy about what price he brought his bitcoin at.

  114. BRT says:

    I’m still waiting to here anyone at work or in my circle of friends announce it. But yes, I do think it’s way up then crash. Crash to where? I dunno, 30k maybe. Btw Lib, I will take your advice and buy some CENT. But my long term view on crypto is that it’s here to stay and only going to become more efficient. Ethereum opened the door to all kinds of possibilities.

  115. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Avg Joe was buying crypto…the so called “experts” laughed at it.

    Life is funny. Some people have to work so hard for their money, while others just bought Bitcoin. The irony in everyday life.

    Libturd says:
    May 3, 2021 at 5:39 pm
    I’m not lying, I just went out on my deck to tend to my smoked pork butt (making pulled pork for dinner). I overheard the landscaper next door talking to his buddy about what price he brought his bitcoin at.

  116. Bystander says:

    Better than conversation that I overheard..my wife talking with neighbor and he has been out of work six months. He does batch support and control.

  117. Bystander says:

    When you can’t believe how wealthy and successful everyone is investing, take a trip to local Walmart. I went to Shelton CT near my mom’s assisted living. Neck tat families, twenty three year olds toting 6 year olds around and two 60 yo panhandlers at traffic lights pulling in.

  118. chicagofinance says:

    My son was playing at Hoop Group in Neptune…… one of the 14 year olds on the other team was toting around his kid (looks to be about 7-8 months old).

  119. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Yet, capitalism is to blame for all ills.

    chicagofinance says:
    May 3, 2021 at 7:01 pm
    My son was playing at Hoop Group in Neptune…… one of the 14 year olds on the other team was toting around his kid (looks to be about 7-8 months old).

  120. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I teach those young parents. They live in another world. They simply can’t comprehend the consequences of their choices. It’s sad. That’s my first lecture to start the year. No one listens…

  121. EzEssex says:

    Do you tell them to: https://youtu.be/vCadcBR95oU

  122. leftwing says:

    “If I owned wipro or cognizant. I would immediately sell and move into accenture.”

    Cheeky comment?

    If not, feel like saving me some google time and expanding?

  123. BRT says:

    lol, is there a circuit breaker for Ethereum?

  124. The Great Pumpkin says:

    It’s the same thing with stocks or any other investment…they are only worth what they are to the people who got in early. If everyone decides to cash out, the investments are worth nothing. Only a select few can sell for current value without it driving it down. The scary part of any investment…I don’t care what investment it is. It must carry value for the future buyer…

    Cryptos need to find value for a future buyer…that’s why they become more dangerous with every price increase. This is not an ARK growth stock that will eventually produce out its a$$, rewarding current buyers.

  125. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Understand how a market really works. Why fundamentals can matter in one time period, and not another. It’s what’s the current and future investors value that you want to buy now.

  126. The Great Pumpkin says:

    And then sell into the wave of demand. I told you guys that Wayne and Fairfield were the greatest values in north jersey in 2018/2019. If you listened, you made a sh!t load of money quickly. Your welcome.

  127. The Great Pumpkin says:

    For the one’s that laughed…so be it. You lost out.

    Same thing with my NYC bottom calls. Said to buy it out if you can…30 year even laughed at me, but that’s when you could have made easy money. Buy when there is blood in the streets. That’s why it’s a great time to start a dollar cost avg into ark over the next five years…you started buying when there was blood in the streets. Easy money.

  128. The Great Pumpkin says:

    I shouldn’t say “easy money.” “Easy money” takes balls to go against the wave of people who think you are an idiot, and going against them.

    How many times am I going to prove 3b and the likes wrong on this blog before I get some respect? Funny part, dude still thinks I’m the idiot. Lol.

  129. EzEssex says:

    8:37 new crypto wealth obviously.

  130. leftwing says:

    From the 9:15p link….

    “Pfizer and Moderna both are testing their vaccines in children as young as 6 months and expect to ask the FDA for EUAs covering infants…”

    Someone please make an argument that this is science based or for the common good…I need a good late night laugh.

    Six month olds? I’ll tell you what it is…disgusting.

  131. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Lefty,

    INDIA!! WTFU!!! It’s a privilege to gain access to a vaccine and you piss all over it.

  132. Fabius Maximus says:

    “Six month olds? I’ll tell you what it is…disgusting.”

    You are starting to sound like an Anti Vaxer! CDC will recommend the shot so you should take the shot, what’s your issue?

  133. Fabius Maximus says:

    Lib,

    Why would you think the Androids are different from the rest. They have 40% of their workforce there.

  134. Libturd says:

    Left,

    Accenture is significantly more globally diversified than the other two call centers who put all their eggs in the Indian basket.

  135. Chicago says:

    Too subtle. I think this one is more applicable.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dqRNzpS8Nlg

    EzEssex says:
    May 3, 2021 at 7:29 pm
    Do you tell them to: https://youtu.be/vCadcBR95oU

  136. JCer says:

    Lib, you’d be surprised. The Indian operators diversified, they have moved Indians all over the world. I was at MS about 10 years ago when we got teams in Guadalajara Mexico….you guessed it Tata had a facility there and it was mostly staffed with people from India. When your country has 1.3 bn people the smart businesses send them abroad to effectively make them captive. It would not surprise me to find out that they have facilities of people in random countries all over the world. We know they have quite a few people in the US and Canada.

    The other thing is I know Infosys has expanded into higher priced consultants billed at rates not quite as bad as Accenture but sky high and with actual experienced consultants. I have a few of these folks, not cheap but experience and also not necessarily Indian and usually US citizens. Wipro also has the same, it is a big profit center for them. I don’t know how much COVID will slow them down, their customers use them because they are very cheap and there isn’t yet an alternative that is so cheap. Most of their employees are young and will be out for a few weeks and then come back. For the most part all of these people are also working from home.

  137. Grim says:

    The India dev shops are struggling to staff and meet timelines.

  138. grim says:

    Someone please make an argument that this is science based or for the common good…I need a good late night laugh.

    Six month olds? I’ll tell you what it is…disgusting.

    Don’t they give Hep B vax at birth? A few others at 2 and 4 months? What’s the right lower bound? MMR starts at 1 year. Is it 1 year? 2? 4 months?

  139. Bystander says:

    JCer/Grim,

    I am about as close to this as anyone on this board. Part of my role was to remove blockers for Agile team formation so resource management really. That part has become 80% of my role over last year because of hiring needs. WFH is major problem as many areas of bank have data privacy restrictions. We had ODCs (offshore data center, as many know) established with barrier rooms and security controls to ensure Wipro contractors were not taking data. You might as well throw that out now with WFH. Sure, it can happen in US but we all have concept of SEC, DTCC, FINRA regulations. They have zero care for that in India. The ODC was way to enforce it. This is major risk now. When I read that article about UK (and US) banks talking to regulators I assure you it is about coming issues with operational non-conformance because of India reliance (“please don’t fine us”). There are no teeth at these regulatory institutions anymore. Secondly, there is a rude awakening coming for all banks/insurance/financial services firms hiring in India. They played this game for so long. They built ODC at bottom of one city because they did not want to complete salary wise with companies at top of city. Now, the costs are going to increase dramatically. Resource have left city and there is a frenzy to get remaining cheap labor. We are paying ADs higher than current directors in last month and still get higher offer. Indians all talk salary btw not like here. There is 100% price discovery. Our staff will find out by summer and we will either pay 50% more or lose our team. My manager is screaming up the chain..but will the greedy execs here a word before it is too late? If you have project that needs to complete this year with India dev..cancel it, plan for next year but be prepared to pay alot more.

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