From the Record:
As housing rebounds, construction pace picks up at 2 developments
In a sign of the housing industry’s rebound, two large North Jersey redevelopment projects — in Wood-Ridge and Cliffside Park — are picking up momentum after being stalled during the real estate downturn.
The steel framework is going up at the Towne Center project in Cliffside Park, and developers Fred Daibes and James Demetrakis of Edgewater now expect the project to open around September 2015.
And at the Wesmont Station redevelopment, on part of the old Curtiss-Wright factory site in Wood-Ridge, Pulte Homes has begun work on a section of 217 town houses, while nearby, land is being cleared for 104 affordable apartments.
The Wood-Ridge and Cliffside Park redevelopments are moving forward at a time when home building — especially multifamily building — is on the rise again in New Jersey, after falling to post-World War II lows in the wake of the recession and housing bust. This year, New Jersey home construction approvals are running at their strongest pace since 2006, about 29 percent ahead of last year’s level.
“You’re seeing a convergence of long-term trends toward more multifamily, transit-oriented residential development and the housing market emerging from the deep recession that the industry was in,” said Christopher Jones, vice president for research at the Regional Plan Association.
“There’s a pent-up demand for housing, and builders are getting into position to meet this demand,” said Ralph Zucker, head of Somerset Development, the master developer at Wesmont Station.
The two projects reflect builders’ interest in North Jersey; Bergen and Hudson counties have accounted for about 30 percent of the home building in the state this year. And multifamily projects like these two currently make up about 60 percent of the construction activity in the state — an unprecedented share at least since World War II.
“It’s a fundamental and dramatic change in the housing market,” said James Hughes, a Rutgers economist. After “the great suburbanization trend from 1950 to 2000,” he said, “the geography of housing development is changing.”
“Living far out in the suburbia and exurbia is giving way to moving back toward the center of the region,” Hughes said.
…
Millennials, in particular, want a more urban lifestyle, closer to mass transit, Jones and Hughes said.“They have been raised in the suburbs, and they were happy with that; it was a safe environment,” said Hughes. “But that’s not where they want to live. They don’t want to be stuck in a plain vanilla suburb.”
Despite all the blabber about Millenials and the wave of re-urbanization, which is incorrectly discussed as a “migration” (it is not, few areas are actually losing population), the fact is since 2000, the suburbs and exurbs are growing at a faster pace than urban areas. Yes there are exceptions; Yes there is a study that says this changed in 2010-2011 period (for 27 out of 51 metros studied) – however just extend the analysis period a year or two out, and the picture dramatically changes.
It gets even more complex when you dig into the definitions of urban, suburban, and exurban (which we’ve done here ad nauseum).
However there are plenty of local urban examples that are not seeing any real growth, and there are plenty of suburbs that still continue to be in incredibly high demand.
While Jersey City is showing the trend (yes, I know, arguable where), other cities such as Paterson and Trenton, are not. Seems idiotic to make these kind of broad conjectures when we know it’s not the case at all.
If you look at most of the fastest growing “cities” in the US, you’ll quickly see that most of these are cities that include the suburban rings in the definition of city, and in reality, they are growing through expanding suburban development and increasing the city radius, or they were laughably low density “cities” previously, and developing through infill.
County Population % Change 2000-2010 Population per Square Mile
Gloucester 288,288 13.2% 895.3
Ocean 576,567 12.8% 917.0
Atlantic 274,549 8.7% 494.1
Somerset 323,444 8.7% 1,071.7
Middlesex 809,858 8.0% 2,621.6
Cumberland 156,898 7.1% 324.4
Warren 108,692 6.1% 304.5
Burlington 448,734 6.0% 561.9
Hunterdon 128,349 5.2% 300.0
Morris 492,276 4.7% 1,069.8
Mercer 366,513 4.5% 1,632.2
New Jersey 8,791,894 4.5% 1,195.5
Hudson 634,266 4.2% 13,731.4
Sussex 149,265 3.5% 287.6
Salem 66,083 2.8% 199.1
Union 536,499 2.7% 5,216.1
Monmouth 630,380 2.5% 1,344.7
Passaic 501,226 2.5% 2,715.3
Bergen 905,116 2.4% 3,884.5
Camden 513,657 0.9% 2,321.5
Essex 783,969 -1.2% 6,211.5
Just looking at our favorite Bergen County – From 2000-2010 NJ’s most populous county added an additional 20,998 residents. With an average household size of 2.65 (census data), that means we also added 7,923 additional housing units.
This is on top of the 1990-2000 period, where BC population increased 7.1%.
Newark? Not even close.
Also, Ocean and Atlantic counties seeing a significantly faster population growth than the NY Metro area (which only grew 3.1% 2000-2010).
You sure you are going to bet on millenials?
Also interesting, is America’s 3rd largest city, Chicago metro, lost population between 2000-2010 – 3.4%. I believe they continued to lose population in 2011, and only in the last 2 years have they shown growth, albeit tiny in comparison to the lost population.
As part of the settlement made by the big 6 banks related to the robo-signing scandal, an emphasis is put on selling REO to owner occupants rather than investors. Banks will review and counter offer owner occupants after a property has been on the market for 7 days. They will not look at investor offers until the property has been on the market for 14 days.
This new rule is leading to investors signing Owner Occupancy Certifications claiming they will live in the property they are offering on for at least 1 year. Just had a cop who lives in the suburbs sign a certification that he is going to occupy a 2 family in Paterson.
just as every cop is a criminal and all the sinners saints…
Ocean County… ugh! My first house purchase was in Ocean County. I was nearly suicidal by year 2 of living there. The family had a 2nd home there for years but to actually live there year round is a whole other story. OC is a flat, vast expanse of nothingness. It’s a cultural void that will drain your senses and transform one into a zombie. It’s a bland, boring existence. Yes, I’d rather be dead laying on the corner of Kenmare and Mott Street than alive in Ocean County.
“I ordered some spaghetti with marinara sauce and I got egg noodles with ketchup”
That’s life in Ocean County.
I will also say that the post-census trend (2010-2014) towards re-urbanization is probably being misattributed.
Recall the major push towards suburbs and exurbs was during the bubble, when folks were pushed outwards in search of lower cost housing.
Now in the post bubble period, we are showing a push back inward as pricing has moderated in many areas.
Suspect that many may be incorrectly associating the post-bubble trend (boom outwards, bust inwards) with millennial activity, which tells a story, but perhaps not the right one.
don’t understand. everybody here threatens to ‘leave NJ as soon as they can’
grim says:
August 17, 2014 at 7:56 am
Just looking at our favorite Bergen County – From 2000-2010 NJ’s most populous county added an additional 20,998 residents. With an average household size of 2.65 (census data), that means we also added 7,923 additional housing units.
10 – Yeah funny how that works. NJ added more than 100,000 new residents since the 2010 census. roughly 470,000 between 2000 and 2013. We will be over 9 million by 2015, and Bloustein is predicting another 700,000 residents by 2024.
[11] grim
In and outmigration are for reasons. I’d be curious to know why there is a disconnect btwn population growth and jobs unless the stats are not well correlated
[7] Eddie
Just bite the bullet and move to NYC already
… Bloustein is predicting another 700,000 residents by 2024.
And like the previous 470,000, they’re doing their very best to bring their brand of “culture” to the NJ/NY area.
Nom [13],
In time. Either someone is going to present a house deserving of it’s price tag where I’ll dwell for the next decade or we’ll rent in Manhattan when said child is entering college.
NEWSFLASH: Millennials flocking to areas where they can find meaningful employment and life experiences; have individual preferences regarding urban, suburban living situations. Personal finances also cited as determining factor.
More news at 11.
None of this will matter when we’re roaming the country in armed packs and sleeping in the open.
With the advent of alternative fuels becoming more and more efficient, esp solar, this idiot will realize in twenty years that he did not do enough of his hw when making this statement. Actually, he didn’t do any hw at all. Just drawing a simple conclusion based on simple research. Millennial hogwash.
““Living far out in the suburbia and exurbia is giving way to moving back toward the center of the region,” Hughes said.
…
Millennials, in particular, want a more urban lifestyle, closer to mass transit, Jones and Hughes said.”
Only in your dreams. You should move to Iraq, if you want this sort of lifestyle. Not happening here.
Ebola for Palestine says:
August 17, 2014 at 9:50 am
None of this will matter when we’re roaming the country in armed packs and sleeping in the open.
Lol…the man has a point! Agree!
Fast Eddie says:
August 17, 2014 at 8:36 am
Ocean County… ugh! My first house purchase was in Ocean County. I was nearly suicidal by year 2 of living there. The family had a 2nd home there for years but to actually live there year round is a whole other story. OC is a flat, vast expanse of nothingness. It’s a cultural void that will drain your senses and transform one into a zombie. It’s a bland, boring existence. Yes, I’d rather be dead laying on the corner of Kenmare and Mott Street than alive in Ocean County.
Great write up!! Anyone that actually analyzes the issue will realize how off these so called experts really are. Have they ever even spoken with a millenial? If they have, they would realize how off their theory is.
grim says:
August 17, 2014 at 7:37 am
Despite all the blabber about Millenials and the wave of re-urbanization, which is incorrectly discussed as a “migration” (it is not, few areas are actually losing population), the fact is since 2000, the suburbs and exurbs are growing at a faster pace than urban areas. Yes there are exceptions; Yes there is a study that says this changed in 2010-2011 period (for 27 out of 51 metros studied) – however just extend the analysis period a year or two out, and the picture dramatically changes.
It gets even more complex when you dig into the definitions of urban, suburban, and exurban (which we’ve done here ad nauseum).
However there are plenty of local urban examples that are not seeing any real growth, and there are plenty of suburbs that still continue to be in incredibly high demand.
While Jersey City is showing the trend (yes, I know, arguable where), other cities such as Paterson and Trenton, are not. Seems idiotic to make these kind of broad conjectures when we know it’s not the case at all.
If you think relations with russia are bad right now, just wait, they are about to get worst. Russia going to build a spy station in Cuba again.
This is crazy and just shows you that trying to predict the future is impossible. Nuclear waste recycled to make energy. Worrying about peak oil is seriously a waste of time.
“A few milligrams costs a fortune, but californium shows fascinating potential nonetheless
Research on a little-known element called californium may open up completely new opportunities to store radioactive waste and recycle radioactive fuel.
The team behind the study, published in the current edition of Nature Chemistry, found that californium had an extraordinary capability to bond with and separate other materials. It also has an extreme resistance to radiation damage.
“It sounds almost too good to be true,” says professor Thomas Albrecht-Schmitt, who led the Florida State University–based experiments, and refers to the element as “wicked stuff.””
http://time.com/35167/rare-element-californium-recycle-radioactive-fuel/
(PhysOrg.com) — One of the world’s biggest providers of nuclear reactors, GE Hitachi Nuclear Energy (a joint venture of General Electric and Hitachi), wants to reprocess nuclear waste for use as a fuel in advanced nuclear power plants, instead of burying it in waste repositories such as that proposed at Nevada’s Yucca Mountain.
Read more at: http://phys.org/news185694782.html#jCp
I think the Millennials should tell the Baby Boomers and Gen X’ers to F*ck Off, and rename themselves the F*ck You Generation.
We’re typecasting an entire generation based on the macroeconomic disaster set forth by the previous two generations. Depending on your definition of Gen Y/Millenials, the youngest of them are about 14 years old now. Defining a generation by looking at a bunch of teenagers? We rape the economy and then decide we’re going to call them entitled and lazy, because they are unemployed?
Most generations before them were given the opportunity to define themselves. Oh no, not the Millennials, the helicopter parents will do it for them.
F*ck You Generation.
And we know the previous two generation should really be named the Locust Generation (Or the Had-It-Easy Generation), and the Ambivalent Generation.
Wish I could invest in this. Should be huge.
http://www.transatomicpower.com/index.php
Love it!! Basically robbed a generation of getting economically ahead, and then called them lazy. Basically blamed it all on them. Millenials did everything right. They worked hard, earned a college degree, and then were told that they were idiots for going to college and accrue ing debt. They then blamed them for getting the wrong degrees. All excuses avoiding the fact that this generation was straight up robbed. Taking from peter to pay paul. What is this a Saturday night live skit? Lol
Housing is done because these lazy millenials can’t get a job and buy a house. They would rather live home with mommy and daddy. Give me a break!!
grim says:
August 17, 2014 at 10:42 am
I think the Millennials should tell the Baby Boomers and Gen X’ers to F*ck Off, and rename themselves the F*ck You Generation.
We’re typecasting an entire generation based on the macroeconomic disaster set forth by the previous two generations. Depending on your definition of Gen Y/Millenials, the youngest of them are about 14 years old now. Defining a generation by looking at a bunch of teenagers? We rape the economy and then decide we’re going to call them entitled and lazy, because they are unemployed?
Most generations before them were given the opportunity to define themselves. Oh no, not the Millennials, the helicopter parents will do it for them.
F*ck You Generation.
Deck help, so i considered replacing my 20×20 cedar deck from 1993 with a composite. Guy comes back with a $12,000 quote material only. Double that for labor. I run to home depot and highest composite is $35 per 16 foot, i estimate boards would be $2,000…(45 boards) What am i missing…?? I know railings are expensive.
I don’t think that anyone has argued NJ is losing population, legal english speaking citizens perhaps. I saw a van with NC plates this week with what looked like 6 new arrivals.
The millenials are going to have to fix the mess created by the previous generations. I think they will do a good job of it. Hopefully, they will also create death squads for the michael and anon types.
Millennials will be the largest generation in American history, they will also be the most educated, and have access to the best technology the world has ever had. They have radically different ideas about society and politics, and most importantly, they don’t seem to want to get pulled into the partisan nonsense that defines government today.
I’m not sure we should be as worried as we are.
Grim NYT beat you too it.
“Generation Nice”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/17/fashion/the-millennials-are-generation-nice.html?_r=0
28 – I don’t think I spent $12k total for my deck, and that included pouring 12 footings (deck is freestanding). Railings are the single most expensive part, more expensive than everything else combined.
I’m doing this from memory, 25×16 (the exact same square footage as your deck).
$2,500 Transcend Decking (Paid $2k, had 20% in Lowes coupons).
$5,000 Transcend Railing
$500 Composite Fascia
$500 Misc (ADA Graspable Handrail, Stainless Hidden Fasteners)
Maybe $250 in delivery fees.
This was with 2 sets of stairs (more expensive)
I still need to do the skirt below, that will probably set me back another $500.
https://njrereport.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/deck4.jpg
https://njrereport.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/deck2.jpg
https://njrereport.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/deck1.jpg
The railings are going to require all new 4×4 pressure treated posts, it would be a waste of time and money to slide those railings over old posts. That’ll probably add another $500 in hardware and treated lumber.
Railings are literally the cost of the deck depending on how fancy you get. Also, depends on the type of composite. Not all are created equally. So you need to find that out first.
1987 condo says:
August 17, 2014 at 10:58 am
Deck help, so i considered replacing my 20×20 cedar deck from 1993 with a composite. Guy comes back with a $12,000 quote material only. Double that for labor. I run to home depot and highest composite is $35 per 16 foot, i estimate boards would be $2,000…(45 boards) What am i missing…?? I know railings are expensive.
[31]
Grim, when you say the millennials are the most educated, can you elaborate?
Also, if your case is made on the basis of the percent of that generation with college degrees, please acknowledge that the curriculum has been dumbed down.
Oh and michael, this question is directed at Grim, so don’t chime in with your gibberish, because I’m looking for an intelligent response.
Lol I just stripped, cleaned, and stained my deck this summer. Spent 500 in material alone. I have a Brazilian tiger wood deck. Looks awesome. The railings alone, just to put two coats of stain on, took my father-in-law and myself 9-6 with pretty much no breaks. The deck floor took another day working 9-6 just to apply the stain. Long process if you want it done right. I do have a large deck that has two levels. Below the deck I also have a screened in porch where I used composite for the floor.
I recently had my foundation covered in stone (truestack style). They are not finished yet, but so far looks awesome. Stone veneers are stupid expensive. I’m lucky I have a friend that is doing it. Stuff is stupid expensive.
I do think one meaningful trend/generalization is that millennials might be the first generation to be competing with their grandparents’ generation for work. As a Gen Xer, it seems weird to work side by side with 20 somethings and 60 somethings. Personally, I like the dynamic, but when I entered the workforce, it wasn’t uncommon for folks to retire at 55, which cleared the path for more new grads. Now folks are clinging to those jobs into their mid to late 60’s.
Idiot, I’m one of the leaders of the millenial generation. How many millenials you know that is paying close to 30,000 in property taxes. Yet, I’m such an idiot that I was able to overcome the challenges presented to my generation and overcome them to be doing better today at 34, then baby boomers are at 60 years old. Actions speak louder than words. Hell, this person that you call an idiot when it comes to economics is prob beating you right now in the game of capitalism. How many millenials do you know that bought a house at 19? Not to live in, but as an investment. Don’t know any. F u.
Ebola for Palestine says:
August 17, 2014 at 11:00 am
The millenials are going to have to fix the mess created by the previous generations. I think they will do a good job of it. Hopefully, they will also create death squads for the michael and anon types.
35 – I think the Pew studies are the best on this topic.
The Rising Cost of Not Going to College (this is not a positive puff piece)
The Rise of the College Graduate
Today’s Millennials are the best-educated generation in history; fully a third (34%) have at least a bachelor’s degree. In contrast, only 13% of 25- to 32-year-olds in 1965—the Silent generation—had a college degree, a proportion that increased to 24% in the late 1970s and 1980s when Boomers were young adults. In contrast, the proportion with a high school diploma has declined from 43% in 1965 to barely a quarter (26%) today.
Stop spreading stereotypes. You think college is easier today than 30 years ago? You are an idiot for thinking this. It has only gotten more difficult. Keep believing your bs. You just have to show up and you get a degree, right? How the hell do you come up with this crap. They make the requirements tougher and tougher every year.
Jason says:
August 17, 2014 at 11:37 am
[31]
Grim, when you say the millennials are the most educated, can you elaborate?
Also, if your case is made on the basis of the percent of that generation with college degrees, please acknowledge that the curriculum has been dumbed down.
Oh and michael, this question is directed at Grim, so don’t chime in with your gibberish, because I’m looking for an intelligent response.
“just as every cop is a criminal and all the sinners saints…”
or
just as every cop is a saint and all the sinners criminals…
Michael regarding the dumbing down of a college degree, unbeknownst to you, you made my point.
this is typical of this crowd. they’ll fight facts don’t like
nobody is fukcing leaving NJ. get it, move on
nwnj says:
August 17, 2014 at 10:59 am
I don’t think that anyone has argued NJ is losing population, legal english speaking citizens perhaps. I saw a van with NC plates this week with what looked like 6 new arrivals.
Prove it then. The programs are tougher and tougher to get into. They constantly make the requirements more rigorous. Then the worst part, after you get the degree, you get to join an impossible competition in which no one will hire you due to lack of experience. Then to get experience, you must whore yourself out in some unpaid internship. Damn, this generation has it easy.
Jason says:
August 17, 2014 at 11:59 am
Michael regarding the dumbing down of a college degree, unbeknownst to you, you made my point.
I can win this argument without even having to touch on the “dumbing down” of American educashun. From the Pew article above:
In contrast, the proportion with a high school diploma has declined from 43% in 1965 to barely a quarter (26%) today.
In 1965 nearly half the country did not have a high school diploma. They were drop outs, or entirely uneducated in the classical sense. Look at that number, 43% of the American Population didn’t finish high school.
It’s down to 26% now, which is still laughably high. But it does mean we have 17% more of the population with high school education that didn’t exist before.
Are you trying to tell me that a dropout or entirely uneducated guy off the street in 1965 had a better education than a high school graduate today?
no more pension plans for the 99%.
work till the day you die
clotluva says:
August 17, 2014 at 11:47 am
.. it wasn’t uncommon for folks to retire at 55, which cleared the path for more new grads. Now folks are clinging to those jobs into their mid to late 60′s.
And don’t you dare point to the higher levels of unemployment among Millennial college graduates as evidence of any “dumbing down”, or “worthless degrees” because you know as well as I do that the reason for the higher unemployment is the Locusts staying in the workplace significantly longer than the previous generations did.
http://www.bls.gov/spotlight/2008/older_workers/
The number of 65 and older workers in the workplace doubled between 1977 and 2007.
Perhaps we need to consider disproportionately higher income tax rates for employees over 65.
Boomers will be f*cking over Millennials until the day the last one dies.
Bernard Kerik on CNN to talk about good policing…
eom
anon (the good one) says:
August 17, 2014 at 12:14 pm
no more pension plans for the 99%.
work till the day you die
grim says:
August 17, 2014 at 12:18 pm
because you know as well as I do that the reason for the higher unemployment is the Locusts staying in the workplace significantly longer than the previous generations did.
NJT,
The song from yesterday… wasn’t that Tommy Tutone not Springfield?
Grim, you can cite graduation statistics from the 1960’s or whatever decade you choose and compare them to graduation statistics of today. I say that is hogwash, all but the very worst students are graduating now. That wasn’t the case back then when standards were higher and it was tougher to graduate. Have you seen the quality of essays high schoolers are writing these days? You would be appalled. To say they are more educated now is laughable.
From that nyt article juice posted. Seems about right. I’m the optimist on this blog. The people calling me idiot think the economy is going to crumble and never do well again. I find it highly amusing to be called an idiot by people that hold this view. It’s only logical and obvious that things will get a lot better, too bad the people calling me idiot are incapable of understanding this simple matter. We are about to be coming out of this down period called “the Great Recession” and you think things are going to get worst. This idiot is laughing at you.
“No wonder, then, that “millennials are the nation’s most dogged optimists,” as Pew reported in a new study this spring. “They believe their own best days are ahead”
so, lots and lots of high school dropouts and very few college educated would be the ideal?
like in 3rd world countries
In the 1950s, fewer than 12% of high school enrollees took a Geometry course, and fewer than 3% took trigonometry. In the early 50s, the trig number was half that.
I believe the trig number is near 70% today.
I don’t even think they taught calculus in high school in the 1950s.
You do realize that you have to past a state test in nj to graduate high school, right? This test has only gotten harder over the years. Now, they just changed it to the parrc assessment or something like that, and guess what, the test is stupid difficult.
Stop spreading bs myths that you heard and believe. You prob believed Christie when he sold you that our no 1 ranked education system in the u.s. was broken. He left out the part that it was not broken in educational terms, he just wanted to attack the union ( because that what was the conservative movements agenda at the time (2010)). So he started making his talking points about fixing education about fixing the pension system and fixing tenure. Why would you believe this crap? All he did was make you attack unions. He doesn’t give a crap about education. You got taken for a ride.
Jason says:
August 17, 2014 at 12:27 pm
Grim, you can cite graduation statistics from the 1960′s or whatever decade you choose and compare them to graduation statistics of today. I say that is hogwash, all but the very worst students are graduating now. That wasn’t the case back then when standards were higher and it was tougher to graduate. Have you seen the quality of essays high schoolers are writing these days? You would be appalled. To say they are more educated now is laughable.
My nephew goes to SHU, where there are multiple freshmen classes for remedial math … No not just for calculus, but also for Algebra.
55- what does tenure, pension, and health care contributions have to do with improving education? He took you for a ride and it worked. Thank goodness bridge gate happened or this con artist would be the next president.
55
And if someone held the belief that public employees have been overcompensated since a lot longer than 2010, what would you say?
Btw, unpaid internships are just another way the baby boomers, aka locust generation, is sucking the youth dry.
59-* are.
Better fix that before Joyce freaks out on me for a grammatical error.
So now passion fruit brings up unions tenure etc, can’t wait for him to accuse everyone else of saying it first.
Your point? It’s proof that colleges expect you to have a certain level of understanding before you can move on. It’s a nice way of throwing a brick wall in front of the kids that cheated their way through high school and never learned anything.
joyce says:
August 17, 2014 at 12:42 pm
My nephew goes to SHU, where there are multiple freshmen classes for remedial math … No not just for calculus, but also for Algebra.
Besides a house, what else has your family given you?
Michael says:
August 17, 2014 at 11:48 am
Idiot, I’m one of the leaders of the millenial generation. How many millenials you know that is paying close to 30,000 in property taxes. Yet, I’m such an idiot that I was able to overcome the challenges presented to my generation and overcome them to be doing better today at 34, then baby boomers are at 60 years old. Actions speak louder than words. Hell, this person that you call an idiot when it comes to economics is prob beating you right now in the game of capitalism. How many millenials do you know that bought a house at 19? Not to live in, but as an investment. Don’t know any. F u.
What does that have to do with improving education, seems like more an attack on teachers disguised as a method for improving education.
Once again, teachers are not over payed. We had this discussion two weeks ago on this board. If you think the avg salary of 66,000 is too much, then what should it be? Quit the bs.
joyce says:
August 17, 2014 at 12:44 pm
55
And if someone held the belief that public employees have been overcompensated since a lot longer than 2010, what would you say?
Quit the bs, I wasn’t given anything. My grandmother did not hand me the house. I got a mortgage at the age of 19 from some insurance company because the bank would not give me the loan. I earned that savvy business move, don’t take it away from me because I got a slight discount on a house I was purchasing(not getting) from my grandmother.
joyce says:
August 17, 2014 at 12:50 pm
Besides a house, what else has your family given you?
65- you were probably older than me in the 1999/00 time period. What’s your excuse for not buying? Since you are so much smarter than me.
My point is there were very few remedial classes when I went to college. If you didn’t have x grades and y SAT scores, you weren’t getting in. Lowering of admission standards coincides with the student loan bubble. Colleges have a never ending supply of demand and students can’t discharge their debts in bankruptcy, so they had to lower the standards to get more and more enrolled.
Michael says:
August 17, 2014 at 12:48 pm
Your point? It’s proof that colleges expect you to have a certain level of understanding before you can move on. It’s a nice way of throwing a brick wall in front of the kids that cheated their way through high school and never learned anything.
Michael ignore her, she’s just trolling you
joyce says:
August 17, 2014 at 12:50 pm
Besides a house, what else has your family given you?
Jeez the point was if anyone says something about compensation, you call them stupid and say Christie took them for a ride. So I’ll repeat, what if someone held those beliefs prior?
Michael says:
August 17, 2014 at 12:51 pm
What does that have to do with improving education, seems like more an attack on teachers disguised as a method for improving education.
Once again, teachers are not over payed. We had this discussion two weeks ago on this board. If you think the avg salary of 66,000 is too much, then what should it be? Quit the bs.
Most generations before them were given the opportunity to define themselves. Oh no, not the Millennials, the helicopter parents will do it for them.
Maybe the tikes should put the cell phones down and organize a campus protest or two or burn something or have a three day festival of sex, drugs and rock and roll. They’re underdeveloped because their over stimulated by social media. And they should vote against anything to do with larger government because government is the biggest t1t suck1ng, bloated, muppet mess ever created.
Btw, unpaid internships are just another way the baby boomers, aka locust generation, is sucking the youth dry.
Whah!! Whah!!
My point is there were very few remedial classes when I went to college. If you didn’t have x grades and y SAT scores, you weren’t getting in.
Amen to that!
Yeah we all had it harder when we were kids.
When I was a kid, we walked up three hills to get to school… in the snow… both ways… barefoot!
And for what it’s worth cause it’s again anecdotal, the teacher in W. Orange that I know cannot fail (hold back) anyone. I went to a private elementary school, not public, but I find it hard to believe its always been that way (never holding students back).
Perhaps, Ben could clarify this depending on how long he’s taught.
Compare an avg student’s essay from 1960 to an avg student’s essay in 2014. You will see that you are wrong. You only believe what you want to believe. When was the last time you read an essay that you are able to make that judgement? Are you a teacher that has been teaching since 1960?
Proof is in the pudding. If kids weren’t getting better, the test scores would tell us. The test scores tell us they are getting better. So believe what you want to believe.
Jason says:
August 17, 2014 at 12:27 pm
Grim, you can cite graduation statistics from the 1960′s or whatever decade you choose and compare them to graduation statistics of today. I say that is hogwash, all but the very worst students are graduating now. That wasn’t the case back then when standards were higher and it was tougher to graduate. Have you seen the quality of essays high schoolers are writing these days? You would be appalled. To say they are more educated now is laughable.
73
Grim,
I understand and I’m trying to choose my words carefully to avoid implying exactly that.
Hahaha
Michael says:
August 17, 2014 at 1:12 pm
You only believe what you want to believe.
Yes, they are doing this with losers to cut costs. They push the kid through and by the time he gets to 11th grade he can’t pass the state test. He then drops out and gets a GED if they have any type of ambition in them. Would you rather they keep retaining a bag of shi! that only messes up the class setting? Come on now. You want cost effective govt or not?
joyce says:
August 17, 2014 at 1:11 pm
And for what it’s worth cause it’s again anecdotal, the teacher in W. Orange that I know cannot fail (hold back) anyone. I went to a private elementary school, not public, but I find it hard to believe its always been that way (never holding students back).
Perhaps, Ben could clarify this depending on how long he’s taught.
This doesn’t apply today? What’s the requirements for getting into Harvard, or a school like Virginia? Am I missing something? When did change?
Fast Eddie says:
August 17, 2014 at 1:02 pm
My point is there were very few remedial classes when I went to college. If you didn’t have x grades and y SAT scores, you weren’t getting in.
Amen to that!
739K for a bilevel, original ask was 769K. It’s an open house today. Ok, let’s all meet and go ridicule the agent that’s babysitting the joint. This house is $175,000 over-priced. Unbelievable.
http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1410136&openhouse=true&dayssince=15&countysearch=false
Wife just came back from shopping. My time is up for now, I will try and respond when I can.
A behemoth! This one would make a good compound for a cult:
http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1414349&openhouse=true&dayssince=15&countysearch=false
As far as a I remember, teachers and govt employees started taking the heat after Christie started his attack. I wasn’t hearing this in 2004.
joyce says:
August 17, 2014 at 12:58 pm
Jeez the point was if anyone says something about compensation, you call them stupid and say Christie took them for a ride. So I’ll repeat, what if someone held those beliefs prior?
Thanks for deck info, guess I’ll keep what I have . My wife tutors Algebra if anyone needs that!!!!
Here’s evidence that back in the day only deserving scholars could access our finest educational institutions:
Bush finished high school at Phillips Academy, a boarding school (then all-male) in Andover, Massachusetts, where he played baseball and during his senior year was the head cheerleader.[27][28]
Bush attended Yale University from 1964 to 1968, graduating with an B.A. in history.[29] During this time, he was a cheerleader and a member of the Delta Kappa Epsilon, being elected the fraternity’s president during his senior year.[30][31][32] Bush also became a member of the Skull and Bones society as a senior.[33]
Bush was a rugby union player and was on Yale’s 1st XV.[34] He characterized himself as an average student.[35] His average during his first three years at Yale was 77 and he had a similar average under a nonnumeric rating system in his final year.[36]
Beginning in the fall of 1973, Bush attended the Harvard Business School, where he earned a Master of Business Administration.
[68]. Anon
“Michael ignore her, she’s just trolling you”
Good thing I finished my coffee before reading. Otherwise, it would be on the screen..
[86] anon
I grew up not far from Phillips Andover and knew kids who went there.
IMHO, they were intelligent and belonged there. I don’t know what they went on to do but if the “failed” it wasn’t for lack of talent.
So I really don’t understand your point here.
anon,
Deserving scholars? Unlike your king, Boco Bamma?
called Phillips Academy, Yale and Harvard our finest educational institutions. And also mentioned a well-deserving scholar who attended the 3 of them.
So, I don’t know where are you getting the ‘failed’ part?
Comrade Nom Deplume, a.k.a. Captain Justice says:
August 17, 2014 at 1:44 pm
[86] anon
I grew up not far from Phillips Andover and knew kids who went there.
IMHO, they were intelligent and belonged there. I don’t know what they went on to do but if the “failed” it wasn’t for lack of talent.
So I really don’t understand your point here.
Grim,
The bottom line is this:
Either (A) some revolutionary new teaching system was invented this past generation to make the children so educated, or (B) standards have been lowered.
I’m going with B.
FERGUSON — Chinese and Russian officials are warning of a potential humanitarian crisis in the restive American province of Missouri, where ancient communal tensions have boiled over into full-blown violence.
“We must use all means at our disposal to end the violence and restore calm to the region,” Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said in comments to an emergency United Nations Security Council session on the America crisis.
The crisis began a week ago in Ferguson, a remote Missouri village that has been a hotbed of sectarian tension. State security forces shot and killed an unarmed man, which regional analysts say has angered the local population by surfacing deep-seated sectarian grievances. Regime security forces cracked down brutally on largely peaceful protests, worsening the crisis.
“WE CAN AND SHOULD SUPPORT MODERATE FORCES WHO CAN BRING STABILITY TO AMERICA”
America has been roiled by political instability and protests in recent years, which analysts warn can create fertile ground for extremists.
Missouri, far-removed from the glistening capital city of Washington, is ostensibly ruled by a charismatic but troubled official named Jay Nixon, who has appeared unable to successfully intervene and has resisted efforts at mediation from central government officials. Complicating matters, President Obama is himself a member of the minority sect protesting in Ferguson, which is ruled overwhelmingly by members of America’s majority “white people” sect.
Analysts who study the opaque American political system, in which all provinces are granted semi-autonomous self-rule, warned that Nixon may seize the opportunity to move against weakened municipal rulers in Ferguson. Missouri’s provincial legislature, a traditional “shura council,” is dominated by the opposition faction. Though fears of a military coup remain low, it is still unknown how Nixon’s allies within the capital will respond should the crisis continue.
Now, international leaders say they fear the crisis could spread.
“The only lasting solution is reconciliation among American communities and stronger Missouri security forces,” Chinese President Xi Jinping said in a speech from his vacation home in Hainan. “However, we can and should support moderate forces who can bring stability to America. So we will continue to pursue a broader strategy that empowers Americans to confront this crisis.”
Xi’s comments were widely taken as an indication that China would begin arming moderate factions in Missouri, in the hopes of overpowering rogue regime forces and preventing extremism from taking root. An unknown number of Kurdish peshmerga military “advisers” have traveled to the region to help provide security. Gun sales have been spiking in the US since the crisis began.
Analysts warn the violence could spread toward oil-producing regions such as Oklahoma or even disrupt the flow of American beer supplies, some of the largest in the world, and could provide a fertile breeding ground for extremists. Though al-Qaeda is not known to have yet established a foothold in Missouri, its leaders have previously hinted at assets there.
Though Missouri is infamous abroad for its simmering sectarian tensions and brutal regime crackdowns, foreign visitors here are greeted warmly and with hospitality. A lawless expanse of dogwood trees and beer breweries, Missouri is located in a central United States region that Americans refer to, curiously, as the “MidWest” though it is nearer to the country’s east.
It is known among Americans as the home of Mark Twain, a provincial writer from the country’s small but cherished literary culture, and as the originator of Budweiser, a traditional American alcoholic beverage. Budweiser itself is now owned by a Belgian firm, in a sign of how globalization is transforming even this remote area of the United States. Analysts say some american communities have struggled as globalization has pulled jobs into more developed countries, worsening instability here.
VIOLENCE COULD SPREAD TO OIL-PRODUCING REGIONS SUCH AS OKLAHOMA OR EVEN DISRUPT THE FLOW OF AMERICAN BEER SUPPLIES
Locals here eat a regional delicacy known as barbecue, made from the rib bones of pigs, and subsist on traditional crafts such as agriculture and aerospace engineering. The regional center of commerce is known locally as Saint Louis, named for a 13th century French king, a legacy of Missouri’s history as a remote and violent corner of the French Empire.
Though Ferguson’s streets remained quiet on Friday, a palpable sense of tension and uncertainty hung in the air. A Chinese Embassy official here declined to comment but urged all parties to exhibit restraint and respect for the rule of law. In Moscow, Kremlin planners were said to be preparing for a possible military intervention should political instability spread to the nearby oil-producing region of Texas.
michael (38)-
I though your purchase price was 0 on that “investment”, shit-for-brains.
Please keep your trolling stories straight. And, go fcuk your mother.
“How many millenials do you know that bought a house at 19? Not to live in, but as an investment.”
[90] anon,
Just not like you to give Bush any props. I figured you might be going for sarcasm but it was so weak I didn’t think it qualified as such.
now he’s trolling with the The Onion.
Seriously, I think anon has slipped his moorings even more than usual.
deserves as much props as we can give him. functionally retarded and being able to attend those schools?
an inspiration to America’s meritocracy
Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:
August 17, 2014 at 4:09 pm
[90] anon,
Just not like you to give Bush any props. I figured you might be going for sarcasm but it was so weak I didn’t think it qualified as such.
That Onion article is brilliant.
Hey lazy, shlt for brains, how about doing your own research? Oh, that’s right, your decision making process isn’t a rational one.
For the third year in the past four, New Jersey led the list as the state with the greatest percentage of people leaving.
According to United, 4,045 of its New Jersey customers moved out of state last year, while 2,326 moved in, resulting in a 63.5 to 36.5 ratio. Both numbers were larger than in 2012, when 3,925 families used United to move out, as opposed to 2,375 that moved in.
…
The U.S. Census paints an equally grim picture, Migration data for 2011, the last year available, showed 216,000 people left the Garden State, while about 146,000 moved in.
http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2014/01/moving_vans_taking_people_out_of_state_in_droves_survey_finds.html
anon (the good one) says:
August 17, 2014 at 12:02 pm
this is typical of this crowd. they’ll fight facts don’t like
nobody is fukcing leaving NJ. get it, move on
anon (the good one),
Did you say functional ret@rd?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mocUMdATsAY
#28
DIY? Guess not. If you decided to, though: High grade white pine and 10 year Baer stain (lasts about 5., depends on precip. and winters).
I’ve done several over the years, largest was a 20X40 with gazebo and multiple landings.
*Note – The stain needs to be applied by hand via brush putting on TWO heavy coats.
Good as anything else and for a fraction of the cost. Um, make sure to get underneath, too.
Somthing that size takes about 80 hours to build (alone) including digging and pouring footings. Then around 40 to sand (lightly) and stain.
Your milage may vary.
Every 5 years or so a powerwash and restain.
Railings can be bought premade. Easy detail.
Tool recommendation:
Sharp saw (electric or manual, whatever you prefer)
Tape measure
Standard shovel
Breaker bar (if rocky soil)
Pick (if rocky soil)
Come along/winch (if rocky soil and big trees are nearby)
Nylon rope
Old ‘rough’ clothes (longsleve, longpants)
Heavy duty gloves
Steel toe workboots
Cooler of cold beer and sandwiches
Another coller with just ice
Radio/’boom box’ and fav. recordings
Wife away (wherever).
Yeah, the ‘redneck way’ but…worked for me and buyers LOVED the look.
Oh, and don’t forget the permit(s) and closing them afer finishing.
Never again – for me.
I was born in 76, tail end of Gen X, spent many years working with many baby boomers.
If they were more well educated than I was, sorry but I didn’t notice.
They forgot how to write too.
#50 (Joyce)
Dunno. Never forgot ‘my’ Jenny’s number, though (had it posted on my bedroom wall – corkboard over my desk) for years.
No more. :).
Ah, the early 80’s….
You do realize that you have to past a state test in nj to graduate high school, right? This test has only gotten harder over the years. Now, they just changed it to the parrc assessment or something like that, and guess what, the test is stupid difficult.
I administer these tests each year. The kids finish in 10 minutes and go to sleep. They all pass. It’s pure torture. This is a 3 day affair. In terms of it being a requirement to graduate, I’d say the only challenge is actually having the fortitude to show up all three days and put up with the boredom.
Why do they have to have some revolutionary new teaching method to increase the rigor?
Just for thought. Today’s generation is so lazy(sarcasm), just look at the amount of hw a first grader gets. It’s insane. You are telling me that first graders in 1960 could compete with the first graders of today in an academic setting?
You should see how bad they f’ed up kindergarten. Kindergarten is so rigourous now. I’m honestly against it. Let the damn kids be kids. Only a kid once. That’s priceless and should never be taken away from kids. Some kids today have a lineup of activities to do from the minute they wake up to the minute they go to sleep. They are basically making them into machines and robbing them of their childhood. Don’t tell me kids from the 1960’s worked harder than today’s kids. Parenting in the 60’s was let your kids roam the neighborhood and just make sure you are home for lunch and dinner. The millenial generation and on could only wish they had that sort of freedom to “play” growing up.
Jason says:
August 17, 2014 at 2:35 pm
Grim,
The bottom line is this:
Either (A) some revolutionary new teaching system was invented this past generation to make the children so educated, or (B) standards have been lowered.
I’m going with B.
Any new teaching methods that have gained traction within education circles in this country are complete gimmicks and people juke their grades to make it seem like it works.
Bottom line, students from Europe and Asia that are the same age as our students can run circles around our students. There’s something wrong with that. Our education system is weak comparatively speaking and you cannot use the amount of HW kids get as evidence that they work hard or even have to work harder than a previous generation.
A. Most of it is busy work
B. Most of the time, the parents end up doing it for the kids.
[96] anon
Functionally retarded and accomplished far more than you or I.
Sucks, doesn’t it?
105-
Five Myths About U.S. Kids Outclassed by the Rest of the World
At the end of this article, the reporter slips in an important rhetorical question: But if being No. 1 in education is our goal, shouldn’t we also want to be No. 1 in all the things closely linked to academic achievement, such as quality of childhood health care and reduction of childhood poverty? We must push this question beyond rhetoric. Our children are suffering in very real ways.
By Paul Farhi
The usual hand-wringing accompanied the Department of Education’s release late last year of new statistics on how U.S. students performed on international tests. How will the United States compete in the global economy, went the lament, when our students lag behind the likes of Singapore and Hong Kong in math and science? American fourth-graders ranked 12th in the world on one international math test, and eighth-graders were 14th. Is this further evidence of the failure of the nation’s schools?
Not exactly. In fact, a closer look at how our kids perform against the international “competition” suggests that this story line may contain more than a few myths:
1. U.S. students rate poorly compared with those in the rest of the world.
This is true only if you cherry-pick the results. University of Pennsylvania researchers Erling E. Boe and Sujie Shin looked at six major international tests in reading, math, science and civics conducted from 1991 through 2001. Their conclusion: Americans are above average when compared with 22 other industrialized nations. In civics, no nation scored significantly higher than the United States; in reading, only 13 percent did. Even in math and science — the two subjects considered “vital” to future technological competitiveness — the United States fell in roughly the middle of the pack. No gold star, but hardly a crisis, either.
More interesting, when compared with students in the world’s most industrialized countries, U.S. students were on par with the others in every subject (and outperformed everyone in civics). And every Western country, not just the United States, lagged behind Japan in math and science, suggesting that the “achievement gap” in these subjects is an East-West phenomenon rather than an American one.
2. U.S. students are falling behind.
Actually, American students are mostly improving, or at worst holding their own. As the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) shows, America’s eighth-graders improved their math and science scores in 1995, 1999 and 2003. Only students in Hong Kong, Latvia and Lithuania — three relatively tiny and homogenous entities — improved more than the United States did. Indeed, no nation included in the major international rankings educates as many poor students or as ethnically diverse a population as does the United States. Yet even as the percentage of historically low-achieving students has increased, our test scores have risen. Unfortunately, news accounts focus on the relative position of American students (are we No. 1 or No. 12?) rather than on their absolute performance (did they improve, regardless of what others did?).
3. U.S. students won’t be well prepared for the modern workforce.
This myth has been bandied around since at least the turn of the century — the 19th century — by business leaders who blame schools for inadequately preparing workers. It’s part of the never-ending notion that U.S. schools are in crisis.
Education researcher Gerald W. Bracey cites a March 1957 cover story in Life magazine — at the height of post-Sputnik paranoia over Soviet scientific prowess — that contrasts the stern, rigorous education of a Moscow teenager (complicated physics and chemistry courses) with the carefree lifestyle of a Chicago youth (rehearsals for his high school musical). The cover headline: “Crisis in Education.” In the 1980s, when Japan seemed to be an unstoppable economic juggernaut, the seminal policy manifesto “A Nation at Risk,” written by a blue-ribbon panel at the behest of the Department of Education, warned that deficiencies in high school graduates “come at a time when the demand for highly skilled workers in new fields is accelerating rapidly.”
Despite these doomsday cases, the United States survived and, by many measures, bested the competition. Today, with the Soviet Union a memory and Japan facing its own economic and demographic problems, the anxieties have shifted to China and other Asian rivals.
4. Bad schooling has undermined America’s competitiveness.
This canard — perhaps the biggest of them all — was given a boost by the recent World Economic Forum survey of international economies. Typically this annual survey ranks the U.S. economy as the most competitive in the world, but last year it put the United States in sixth place. However, the drop had nothing to do with test scores or school performance. Rather, the forum cited U.S. trade and budget deficits, a low savings rate, tax cuts and the federal government’s increased spending on defense and homeland security.
Another recent survey, by the Council on Competitiveness, a Washington-based business advisory group, found that over the past two decades the U.S. economy grew faster than that of any other advanced nation, and generated a third of the world’s economic growth. Yet this performance followed a period in which the authors of “A Nation at Risk” were warning that a “rising tide of [educational] mediocrity . . . threatens our very future as a nation.” That was in 1983. Those high-school mediocrities are now turning 40, and presumably have been playing a part in helping the U.S. economy grow “faster than any other advanced economy” over the past two decades.
A dynamic economy is much more than the sum of its test scores. It’s part of a culture that rewards innovation and risk-taking, and values unconventional problem-solving. Much of this is nurtured in our schools, even if it can’t be quantified on a test.
Recently, Newsweek International’s Fareed Zakaria noted Singapore’s success on international math and science exams, but asked Education Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam why Singapore produced so few top-ranked scientists, entrepreneurs, inventors, business executives and academics. “We both have meritocracies,” he replied. America’s “is a talent meritocracy, ours is an exam meritocracy. There are some parts of the intellect that we are not able to test well — like creativity, curiosity, a sense of adventure, ambition. Most of all, America has a culture of learning that challenges conventional wisdom, even if it means challenging authority. These are the areas where Singapore must learn from America.”
Our current (and past) economic success suggests something that educational alarmists and their sky-is-falling friends in the news media seem reluctant to admit: American schools may have a lot to fix, but they may be doing a few things right, too.
5. How we stack up on international tests matters, if only for national pride.
Yes, we’re a nation of strivers and self-improvers; the American drive to be the biggest and the best in everything seems part of our national character. But if being No. 1 in education is our goal, shouldn’t we also want to be No. 1 in all the things closely linked to academic achievement, such as quality of childhood health care and reduction of childhood poverty? National pride can be a destructive concept, especially when it views learning as a zero-sum game (“their” gains are “our” losses, and vice versa). Continuous improvement should be our goal, regardless of whether we’re No.1 in the test-score Olympics.
Paul Farhi is a Washington Post staff writer
— Paul Farhi
Washington Post
2007-01-21
http://tinyurl.com/24c3rw
na
MORE OUTRAGES
USA!! USA!! USA!! Stop trying to make it seem like we are failing. If American education is so bad, how come our universities are the most sought after in the world? Europeans watering at the mouth to get into American universities because they know the success associated with it.
Remember, our public education system for the primary grades is based on the following philosophy……”no child left behind”.
Would love to see these other countries include illegal boarder jumpers, gang banging thugs, homeless children, and special education kids in their test scores.
“Indeed, no nation included in the major international rankings educates as many poor students or as ethnically diverse a population as does the United States. Yet even as the percentage of historically low-achieving students has increased, our test scores have risen.”
Also, address this issue.
“At the end of this article, the reporter slips in an important rhetorical question: But if being No. 1 in education is our goal, shouldn’t we also want to be No. 1 in all the things closely linked to academic achievement, such as quality of childhood health care and reduction of childhood poverty? We must push this question beyond rhetoric. Our children are suffering in very real ways.”
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