From the Boston Herald:
Facing housing’s winter chill: Pros and cons of listing your home after Thanksgiving
Today marks the start of the holiday shopping season, but it’s also the end of the fall real estate season – leaving would-be sellers like Fran Adams in a bind.
The quandary: Whether to leave unsold properties on the market all winter, or pull up “For Sale” signs and start again next spring.
“It’s a tough question,” said Adams, a real estate agent who’s trying to sell a $419,000 West Roxbury Colonial that he and his relatives inherited this summer. “The longer a property sits unsold, the greater the chance a buyer will offer less. But if you take the place off of the market, there’s always the risk that you’ll miss the buyer – the person who was looking for exactly what you’re selling.”
With the Bay State housing market in a funk, thousands of would-be sellers face Adams’ dilemma this post-Thanksgiving weekend.
…
Unfortunately for would-be sellers, the market is entering the year’s slowest period.Only about 19.5 percent of properties sold last year went under agreement in December, January and February, vs. some 31.8 percent in the far-stronger March-through-May period.
“Historically, few people are out looking for houses during holidays,” said Adams, a broker with Boston’s MCM Properties. “Whether it’s Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year’s or a vacation, many people want to be somewhere else.”
…
Agents add that keeping a house on the market all winter long can make a property look defective or the seller seem desperate.That can attract “low-ball” bidders – not just in winter, but also the next spring.
After all, the MLS tracks how many days every property in its database has been on the market.
Leave a house on the MLS all fall and winter and its “time-on-market” rating can grow to 180 days or more by springtime.
…
Still, Adams recently decided to take his home off of the market for the winter if a buyer doesn’t emerge by month’s end.“We don’t need to unload the house right away, so we’re willing to wait until spring and hope to get the right price,” he said.
On the other hand, taking a home off of the market has one obvious downside: You might miss out on a sale.
Who the heck are these so called “experts”?
Hey…. silly seller… if you want your house sold, lower your price… its that easy. WTF??
Alot of these sellers are really in la la land.
False hope….false hope…
” experts recommend you:
Keep the place festive. Feel free to use Christmas trees and the like during the holiday season.
Offer a “spring touch.” Fresh flowers can brighten up a place in dreary winter weather.
Maximize light. Make sure all windows are clean and all shades open, so as to allow in as much light as possible.
Tout the landscaping. If your home has a nice yard, provide photographs of what the landscaping looks like during spring or summer. That way, house hunters who show up on snowy days can get a feel for what they’re missing.
De-clutter. Keeping a place neat and clean is especially important in winter, when weak sunlight can make even the nicest home look forbidding.
“These are generally good rules to follow all year round,” Ford said. “But they’re even more important in winter, because that’s when it’s darker and gloomier out.”
“It’s a tough question,” said Adams, a real estate agent who’s trying to sell a $419,000 West Roxbury Colonial that he and his relatives inherited this summer.
If they inherited the property they should just lower the price to something that would sell.. why be so greedy.. it’s found money..
there just paying carrying costs anyway right now, SAVE the carrying costs and just sell for lower now. they probably won’t get any better in the spring.
That’s my 2cents..
Tan
Tan,
I agree, the damn place is being split up between him and his relatives. Say they sell for 50k less than they want. Well, by the time it’s split up its trivial.
“Whether it’s Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year’s or a vacation, many people want to be somewhere else.”
…………….and the rest of 2006,2007 and part of 2008.
There will be unprecendented inventory this spring. It seems like everybody has the same attitude, put it up this spring when the market is better. The change of season will not change the psychology of the market. It will be a spring shock for many. At this time we will enter the concern/fear stage.
READ MY LIPS….NO SPRING REBOUND…SPRING 2007 HOUSING MASSACRE COMING TO A HOOD NEAR YOU…
BABABABABA
Bring it on!
Lets watch the action…it will be fun watching the NAR squirm and realtors/Grubbers papapapanicking….
BOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAA
Bob
Nothing less than 25% off peak 2005
I am not a realtor nor am I a home owner and I personally would like to see RE prices come down to reasonable levels but I have got to tell you that IMHO your posts are quite annoying. First of all they are redundant. Why do you post the same thing over and over? We get it! I must have seen that “No spring rebound” post about 20 times across different threads. It is just annoying to need to fish through all your redundant post to read something useful. On top of that it is a waste of bandwidth.
http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybrid.aspx?storyID=urn:newsml:reuters.com:20061124:MTFH37566_2006-11-24_14-39-11_N24346305&type=comktNews&rpc=44
U.S. stocks fell at the market open on Friday as a steep drop in the dollar heightened inflation worries and left U.S. shares less appealing to foreigners.
nice 5 year shot of Euro to USD.
I hope the Fed raises rates and get control of itself.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USDEUR=X&t=5y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=
SAS
Tarkus Says:
November 24th, 2006 at 9:37 am
Nothing less than 25% off peak 2005
I am not a realtor nor am I a home owner and I personally would like to see RE prices come down to reasonable levels but I have got to tell you that IMHO your posts are quite annoying. First of all they are redundant. Why do you post the same thing over and over? We get it! I must have seen that “No spring rebound” post about 20 times across different threads. It is just annoying to need to fish through all your redundant post to read something useful. On top of that it is a waste of bandwidth.
Then why don’t you say the same thing about the NAR or Fibbing realtors?
Boooooooooyaaaaaaaaaa
Bob
China sells arm
” Beijing said on Friday it would continue to help Pakistan produce nuclear power”
“China-Pakistan defence deal signed”
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/46A3E597-F454-4A73-9E54-0042A3A084D2.htm
and we wonder why our dollar is worthless??
SAS
Oh and many dummies have short memories so it’s important to remind these pigeons of the risks they are exposed to.
2007 SPRING HOUSING MASSACRE WATCH IT UNFOLDING BEFORE YOUR EYES.
BABABABA
Russia sends missiles to Iran
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/24/russia.iran.reut/index.html
Hello everybody I would like your comments on the following situation.
Edison
1. I currently rent 1 bedroom : 950$/Mon
2. Planning 2 bedroom April :07 : 1400$/Mon
how about owning a 2 bedroom co-op around 130K.
I have heard co-op does not go up down a lot with general real state.
I am also doing more research.
Thanks,
sv
SV,
“I have heard co-op does not go up down a lot with general real state”
you have heard wrong. Co-op is nothing more than everyone in the building owning a piece of the whole. You don’t really have any “true” ownership, therefore when and “if” this market picks up, your resale value will be none. Its very hard to sell a co-op, that is why they are usually unheard of outside manhattan.
Only good thing about a co-op is that in a builsing, you can usually have some way of selecting your neighbors. A good way to keep out the rift raft.
“2 bedroom co-op around 130K”
where is this? crackensack, NJ. The South Bronx. I know this RE market is way overvalued and over priced, but there is also a fine line between a good deal, and just cheap i.e a POS.
“1. I currently rent 1 bedroom : 950$/Mon
2. Planning 2 bedroom April :07 : 1400$/Mon ”
Thats alot of jack for a 1 bedroom. You in manhattan at that price? Why make the move to a 2 bedroom? Better off to stay in the 1 bedroom and save the $5400 (1400 x12months).
If you don’t have room for all your shit, either ebay all your shit, or get a storage place. A storage place will be alot cheaper than $5400.
Don’t get a roomate either in the 2 bedroom. For the little $250 you would save per month, might as well have your own little place (that you can bring home a women at any time wink…wink…)
I think you are better off sticking it out in that 1 bedroom for another year, save cash, and wait for this market to start hitting some bottoms.
Cross off 07.
SAS
I think we should find these greedy grubbers house and we shoould all put in offers of 100k.
LOL and when they pull it and wait for spring we should all go back and offer 75k and said the greedy bastard should have accepted our first offer.
another thing SV about co-ops.
Co-ops usually have very high maintance fees, and/or a co-op fee. So, what might sound like a low price at first, will not be after all the fees are attached.
AND
when you or a seller sells a co-op, ALL co-op boards tack on what is called a co-op tax.
Meaning, when the seller sells at x price, the co-op taxes the seller like 5%-10% of selling price. Which the co-op board gets. Another way for them to raise revenue and they don’t give a shit about you because…hey…your moving out of the building. So they want to squeeze you before you say your goodbyes.
Where does this co-op tax come from?
Yup, your ass. The one who buys that co-op AND, when you sell, most co-ops can raise this tax at will whenever they want. i.e.. as soon as your house is on the market, expect a co-op board to raise its co-op tax. Which, means you have to raise your price, which in turn might not make it competitive against all the condos on the market. Because most people would take a condo over a co-op anyday.
More reasons why co-ops are not popular.
SAS
“Russia sends missiles to Iran”
Yikes.
Maybe that wall in Berlin never should have fallen and that Saddam should have stayed in power????
things are not looking good on a geopolitical scale.
SAS
I’m in Edison, SAS is telling you the truth, you should listen to him. Co-ops are very hard to sell, if you are thinking of buying the co-ops in front of MCC you are gonna be sorry for rest of your life. Let me tell you, those POS were just about $20k in 1996ish now they are selling for $130k and whoever is selling this is in deep trouble. He got F**Ked big time don’t get involved in co-op mess. I drove around that place during 2003 and asked a few people who lived there….they said after they bought the place the prices tanked…i mean really took a nose dive….like -90% of what they spent…IM NOT KIDDING ABOUT IT….co-op’s are impossible to sell in a bad market, my uncle bought one in flushing NYC and couldnt sell it for a while…anyway, my advice: don’t purchase anything right now….NEVER A CO-OP, and don’t bother with 2 BR unless u absolutely need it, and in the meantime….put your cash in CD’s (5.1@ING) good luck
Co-op, condo, fixer upper,starter home,McMansion,etc,etc,etc….. FORGET IT!!! There is a major storm brewing, hold onto your cash. If it is such a great time to buy, why is the herd trying to get out????
Re: co-op. Another downside to a coop is, when you do decide to sell, the co-op board might not approve your “buyer”, so you have to find another buyer. Happened to friends of mine living in nyc. They tried to buy 2 BR co-op and due to the hassle the board gave them, they lost their deposit. My friends swore never again to try with a co-op and they’ve been telling everyone else.
There is a place that I have been watching (has been on the market for six months with a couple of price reductions). Looks like they just pulled it off the market – don’t know the reason why, but have to assume they will relist in the spring. I am thinking about reaching out to the seller directly and see if they are willing to make a deal. My offer would be significantly lower than the latest list, but if they can save on realtor fees it might be smoething they go for. Any thoughts on this approach?
Remember what happened in the 90’s with coops – many dropped 60% and more in the NY area.
OK (with caution) to buy and flip in an up market – or if you are wealthy and want to live in an exclusive building where it is more important to keep the quality up, than make profit or sell easily.
Condos are better – but I’d avoid both – too many strings attached – like a marriage you didn’t agree to.
In a SFH, you only have to replace the roof when you want to – even if it is leaking.
This spring will bring a FLOOD of inventory, should be fun to watch.
“This spring will bring a FLOOD of inventory, should be fun to watch”
yes, it will be better than the superbowl.
You bringing the chips and beer as we watch this ship sink?
Better get your bets placed.
You know, I even think their is an outfit out of Vegas you can bet there too. You may have to use cash only… know what I mean….
SAS
We have joined Weichert as an affiliate in order to get a bigger piece of a shrinking pie.
Ralph Nudi
Kenosha, WI
http://www.RalphNudi.com
Hey Ralf, whats your take on this real estate bubble?
To: SV
bubblewatcher says–“Remember what happened in the 90’s with coops – many dropped 60% and more in the NY area.” In early 90’s, in NY area, there were mainly co-ops, not condos, so what is the basis of your generalization?
SAS–“Co-ops usually have very high maintance fees, and/or a co-op fee. So, what might sound like a low price at first, will not be after all the fees are attached.” With co-ops, your real estate taxes are part of your maintenance fees, and you do get a credit for them on your income taxes. I have no idea what a “co-op fee” is, and I’ve lived in various co-ops for thirty years.
And, re: the “co-op tax”–also SAS–“The one who buys that co-op AND, when you sell, most co-ops can raise this tax at will whenever they want. i.e.. as soon as your house is on the market, expect a co-op board to raise its co-op tax.” Co-ops generally cannot raise this tax without shareholder approval. The precise terms should be contained in the co-op prospectus and/or the proprietary lease for the unit.
And–SAS again–“the co-op taxes the seller like 5%-10% of selling price.” Five percent would probably be the highest amount a co-op would ever assess as a “flip tax,” which is the correct term for this particular assessment.
Finally, from Poser: “They tried to buy 2 BR co-op and due to the hassle the board gave them, they lost their deposit.” Was that the fault of the co-op system, or did your friends have a bad contract? Cause every co-op I’ve sold had a contingency clause for board approval.
In short, SV, although I can’t comment on the specifics of the co-op you’re looking at, I wouldn’t dismiss co-op living as quickly as most of the other people on this blog. The last co-op I lived in sold in 11 days; I paid a 3% flip tax to the co-op at the closing. I certainly wouldn’t rule out buying another co-op instead of a condo or a house.
Hello Ss,sas,bubblewatcher,Poser BC Bob
Thanks a lot for your comments.
I am in Woodbridge and rent 950$ includes Heat, Hotwater.
I am dropping my idea of co-op for now but will continue research.
PeaceNow,
you may be getting Co-ops confused with the Co-ops that the hippies live in.
“maintenance fees”
yes, it is a tack onto rents. Yes, a certain % can be deducted, but the “board” can raise at anytime they, if it is so in their bylaws.
Some place even have a co-op fee, maybe not yours, but the can and do exist.
“Co-ops generally cannot raise this tax without shareholder approval”
Yes, you are correct. But, the seller will be the only one ojection to the vote, meanwhile the rest of the board will pass it because its a measure for them not to raise maintance fees, which they pay. The board wants easy money just like anyone else.
Like I said before, the board doesn’t give a shit about you because…hey….your moving out of the building.
“the co-op taxes the seller like 5%-10% of selling price.”
yes, good catch. I was off, my mistake. The co-op tax is typically 3-5%. Either way, that still sucks if you want to sell or buy. In a down market, every percent can make or break a deal.
“The last co-op I lived in sold in 11 days; I paid a 3% flip tax to the co-op at the closing”
When did you sell, summer 05?
As we all know, market timing is everything. You put a co-op on the market in NJ for the next 5 years, you ain’t selling it in no 11 days. Those days….are gone goodbye and will be along time before they come again.
” what is the basis of your generalization?”
His basis is co-ops are not that attractive to buyers because their resale value is shit, and when we head into this RE crash, you won’t even be able to give them away.
If co-ops are so great, How come we only find them in manhattan? Otherwise very rare. And, are now becoming harder to find in manhattan.
SAS
“I am dropping my idea of co-op for now but will continue research”
Smart move, research and verify for yourself.
SAS
SAS,
Haven’t made it to Brooklyn or Queens much, have we? Not all buildings in these boroughs are condos or rental only and the flip taxes do not apply to all of these coops which do in fact exist in Queens, such as the one I go home to daily. The vote to impose the flip tax came up twice in the past two years, and was subsequently shot down twice by the shareholders, but this gets into a larger discussion outside the scope of this post (dealing with sponsor owned apartments, etc.) It is precicely this flip tax, which if you’re in a properly managed building with competent people, keeps maintenance costs quite reasonable and building assessments down to nil, affording the building to keep it from looking like a craphole. It allows hallway carpeting and wallpaper to be to be maintained, stairwells to be painted, elevators to be replaced, bricks to be repointed and the list goes on. If you bought your apartment to flip it in 2 years, then yes… it sucks because you get hit with this additional charge on the back end of the sale on a property you never cared about in the first place once you closed your apartment door. If you plan on staying for 5-10 years and want to see a quality of life in the place you call home for however long that is, then it’s not such a bad thing to keep those other “easy money board fees” down. You do realize financial statements are presented to all shareholders annually. You know what you’re paying for utilities, for gas/oil, uniforms for porters and doormen, taxes, etc. To generalize coops as all being “shit” is pretty ignorant, especially when your facts are just that. Are they perfect and for everyone? Definitely not. In today’s plummeting HOUSE market however, it sure beats pissing away money for a rental, and this is the perfect sideline for me until prices come back to 25% off peak 2005 prices. Take it away, Bob.
“This spring will bring a FLOOD of inventory, should be fun to watch.”
Unrealtor,
A flood of epic proportions. Noah will be allowed to take 2 I/O’s, 2 Flippers,2 Neg Amort.,2 ARM’s, 2 Fixer Uppers, etc…. However the boat will be overloaded, somebody must jump ship!!! Flipthatboat.com!!!
“In today’s plummeting HOUSE market however, it sure beats pissing away money for a rental”
LB,
Is it me??? That’s like saying Gold is flying, why piss my $ away in Gold when I can buy the greenback?? It must be me!!!
Aren’t you contradicting yourself???
If housing is plummeting aren’t you better off renting??? I am not in tune with co-op’s. However, you don’t have a chance convincing me that a purchase, at this time, beats a rental.I’ve owned since 1985, out in 2005. Pre 2001, I agree. Now??? You have a better chance selling ice to Eskimos!!!!
Psychoanalyze us please!
Yeah just wait till spring all you – “Sell this house” flippers, because all the prospective buyers are going to be hypnotized with all the perennials from Home Depot in the yard!
It will make me cheerful enough to pay an extra 200,000.000 or more accurately (199,999.99 using their pricing psychology)
Don’t forget the baked cookies for that wholesome effect!
LB,
Market timing is everything.
and in this market, if you don’t want to lose your shirt and wear a barrel a co-op is shit, no matter if its in Queens, Brooklyn, NJ, or manhattan.
That doesn’t mean your home is shit. It just means that it going to be shit for you in todays market and the in the future market if one decides to sell it.
That doesn’t mean it won’t sell, but good luck. Yes, one could argue…”hey this is my home, I don’t plan to sell” ok, fine. Thats a different topic. I am just talking about selling and resale values only.
SAS
“In today’s plummeting HOUSE market however, it sure beats pissing away money for a rental, and this is the perfect sideline for me until prices come back”
I don’t follow? You mean you are going to buy a co-op to wait out the RE market because its better than renting? and waiting it out could take years?
Please tell me tell me I can’t read, or I didn’t interpret you correctly.
SAS
Allow me to clarify, BC.
First, I dont think anyone should buy ANYTHING now. The pissing away line was a reference to my current situation – I already own shares of a co-op and for me there is no benefit in renting. I was trying to bring to light some of SAS’ inaccuracies with regard to New York City co-op ownership.
Second, I am not saying that co-op ownership is in ALL ways superior to condo ownership. As a co-op owner, I can’t sublet indefinitely and board approval is required for transfer of ownership. Condo buyers pay a huge premium for the benefit of owning for investment purposes rather than for shelter. Recent studies peg that premium at somewhere between 15% and 25%. Additionally, I have experience being a sublettor of a condo. My first-hand experience proves co-op resident-owners take much better care of the building than condo residents. Think back to how you treat that rental car vs. your own.
My advice to anyone looking at the condo vs. co-op decision is, do you really want to pay a huge premium to (1) have flexibility in renting out your place and (2) facing the consequences of rental residents vs. owner residents. If you might have to move at a moments notice and don’t mind the renters whose financial situations are not going to be scrutinized (meaning they end up being evicted and damage the property prior to being thrown out) then condo is the way to go if you have the extra money. MOST co-op boards can’t reject potential buyers out of hand. Maybe 5% of the most discriminating co-op boards will do that. Those same co-op boards wouldn’t allow Madonna into their buildings because they didn’t want the paparazzi hanging around. These boards wont’t affect most people reading this blog.
I too will be a greedy grubbing seller soon (“soon” being loosely defined now), but we all know NYC market never goes down ;) I also don’t know the co-op market in NJ, and perhaps it is a bad move, especially when sv points out a 2 bedroom for 130k. Sounds pretty sketchy.
LB
“inaccuracies”
where? when? You got me on one mistake, true. I admitted that, but inaccrate. wow.
“As a co-op owner”, “I too will be a greedy grubbing seller soon”
tell me what I want to hear or tell me nothing at all? yes…
“but we all know NYC market never goes down”
thats a funny line too, I say that with sarcasm time to time as well. You were saying it with sarcasm, correct?
SAS
SAS–every single day I read a flood of posts from you that display your know-it-all attitude, and this week you’ve chosen co-ops to spout off on. Do you fully understand the difference between a co-op and a condo? Do you realize that, just a co-op board can increase maintenance any time it likes, that a condo board of managers can do the same?
I know you’re a registered voter in NY, because you made such a point of telling that to all of us on election day (along with the fact that you weren’t going to bother to vote), but you don’t know why co-ops predominate in the NY market? Well, I’ll tell you why. It’s because most NY co-op buildings were converted from existing housing stock and the underlying mortgage for the properties could not be retired. Condos can only be created when there is no underlying mortgage on the property as a whole. You also seem to believe that maintenance fees are a “tack-on” to rent, but co-op maintenance fees are no different than condo maintenance fees–they’re just higher because they contain amounts toward real estate taxes and the building’s underlying mortgage.
I asked bubblewatcher: ” what is the basis of your generalization?” and you replied, “His basis is co-ops are not that attractive to buyers because their resale value is shit, and when we head into this RE crash, you won’t even be able to give them away.” So, now I ask you…what is the basis of YOUR generalization. I suggest that both of you get some facts before you spout off this nonsense. And that goes for this mysterious “co-op fee” as well. Does it exist because you say it does?
Finally, SAS, are you really suggesting that I’m confusing co-ops with a hippie commune? And might that be because of my screen name? Hope not.
Post # 16, SAS; where do I begin to dissect that rant? The co-op board is comprised of owners/residents who volunteer their time and generally act in the best interest of the cooperative. No, I am not on any board and never was. Bad decisions can be made by a few which can affect the lives and wallets of many. My mutual fund manager can also make lousy decisions with my money leaving me no one to blame but myself by going with that decisionmaker. Hey, that’s life and we can argue the single family home vs. the multi-family options till doomsday.
Sarcasm, yes. Hence the sort of wink-smiley emoticon. Deadpan tone is hard to convey via text.
What was the topic of this entry again? I probably have no business being here anyway, as I’m not a NJ resident and shouldn’t post facts and personal opinions about the NY market that I live in which has no bearing on NJ co-ops that will never sell. Yea I can go out and google up some numbers to regurgitate here, but I’m not in the mood; it’s a nice day for a drive to the mall and I hear the normally priced $300 jeans are now selling for $279.
BABABABABABA BUY!!
“you weren’t going to bother to vote”
No way I was going to vote for Hiliary, so I voted for her opponent. Sadly, I was in the minority.
“Do you fully understand the difference between a co-op and a condo?”
Certainly, especially when one puts it on the market. The difference will become really clear.
“Do you realize that, just a co-op board can increase maintenance any time it likes, that a condo board of managers can do the same?”
yup. That is why I think neither a condo or a co-op will be a good investment in a down market. But if I had my choice of the 2, I would go with a condo. Just me… but what do I know??
“You also seem to believe that maintenance fees are a “tack-on” to rent, but co-op maintenance fees are no different than condo maintenance fees”
Yes, I agree with you. My previous posts may not have been to clear. In both cases these fees are usually way overpriced and not always fair value. I think we both can agree on that one.
“So, now I ask you…what is the basis of YOUR generalization”
My basis is trends from the last RE busts.
But hey, history could be wrong this time around.
“co-op fee”
Most boards throw everything into a bundle and call it maintance fee. So, I misspoke with that term. Good catch.
“suggesting that I’m confusing co-ops with a hippie commune? And might that be because of my screen name?”
At first I did, yes. But your further posts clarified. Your screen name did have some influence….yes.
“your know-it-all attitude”
No, I do not know it all, and always willing to admit when I am wrong and accept accountability.
but, in my defense, I am one smart cookie.
Thanks for the debate.
SA
LB,
“I probably have no business being here anyway”
I think everyone welcomes opinions, even if we may disagree….
“I hear the normally priced $300 jeans are now selling for $279”
If you are willing to spend that much on jeans, may I recommend canali jeans. These jeans are very good looking and fit well. On rare occasion, I have had to get them altered. But most places that sell canali will do that for you free on charge, on the spot.
SAS
In 1980, our apartment in a big hi-rise complex in Bayside Queens put out a plan to go co-op and the “shares” for our apartment were going to be $25,000, as I remember. Our rent at the time was $425/mo. We only had $5,000 in savings at that time. So with the cost of borrowing the $20,000 (mortgage rates at 11% at the time) plus the proposed monthly maintenance, it was already more than the $425/month rent. It seemed like a great deal for the building owners because they get to walk away with all that money people were paying for their shares and still charge maintenance.
Here are some real examples I know regarding CO-OPs in New York (other than Mnahattan).
1 bedroon garden co-op apartment in Roslyn NY.
1988- Sold for $92,000.00
1997- Sold for $46,000.00- Board was advising share holders to not sell below $82,000, but did not press the point
2 Bedroom Co-Op apartment in Bayside NY
1987- Sold for $118,000.
1999- Sold for $84,000.00
Board was advising share holders to not sell below $104,000, but did not press the point
Ideally, we’d like to buy sooner than later, if only because we’re sick of living the apartment life … we’re buying in NJ soon … and the key will be: Will any of the places we want accept a lowball offeR?
Anyone out there offer any lowballs lately?
SAS,
Thanks for the detailed advice…I feel I should point out that I again was being sarcastic about the jeans reference and I apologize for the misinterpretation. Again, tone in text doesn’t often come across as intended.
I have been following this blog for some time as my wife and I are actively looking for a house in NJ with our binoculars and the occasional “fair” lowball offer, but not forking over 2006 asking prices hence my comfortable position of current co-op ownership which I’ve had for a few years already. I’ve seen the $300 pair of jeans reference come up here and there referring to the typical debt-laden household where people sink further into debt with frivolous label purchases and I am not one of those people; I just find the whole thing amusing.
Cliffy, the problem with these areas in Queens/LI really has to do with proximity to NYC, and quite frankly, I don’t even see why co-ops would exist outside of a major city in the first place. I don’t know why the same co-op in 1997 sold for 46k, off the 1998 sale price of 92k the same way I don’t understand why home prices went up double digits, year after year from 1997-2005 (see our favorite Shiller graph for that one). While Bayside is a nice community, for those that need to work in NYC, you’re still dealing with a bus to subway, or express bus into Manhattan, making it as undesirable as many parts of NJ that claim to be commuter friendly. Where I am in Queens, I’m one block from an express subway stop that has me in Midtown in 17 minutes (and the occasional hour + when a signal is fried); far quicker than getting to Midtown from the Upper West Side, especially if a cross town bus is your only option.
LB,
This may surprize you, but I have a place in Queens. Its a brownstone on a street with a church, so I let the church use it as they see fit. I just can’t part with that place, but when the time comes, I think I will just sign it over.
I think you having a “co-op ownership” is a good thing. But when you sell, I think you shouldn’t try to shoot for the moon. Know what I mean, or you may not get it sold in your timeframe.
Every type of ownership has its pros and cons.
But, I do think when NYC has a recession…look out housing. I know its a “what if”, but it does appear that a recession is on the horizon.
(In my estimation). But I don’t know everything, and have been wrong many times in life.
example, I thought come Labor Day crude would be $100 a barrel. But there was no hurricane, Iran cooled its jets a little, the speculators jumped ship, and we had the “election influence”. I shorted crude, lost some money, and ate crow for about a month.
;)
SAS
oh no SAS – you’ll be eating crow from me for much longer ;)
Buying in late 07:
I have put in 3 lowball offers in Maplewood this fall – all three turned me down:
one came back with a ridiculous $5K off their list price
one said they would go $5K off their list and it was FIRM
one came back and said they wouldn’t even negotiate with us
I decided to say screw it for now, and wait until Spring because I feel like there will be a GLUT of inventory that will continue to make it an even better buyers market.
If you do lowball, let me know how it goes. I’m curious how others fare.
Sellers are not interested in lowballs at the moment. Sellers agents are becoming increasingly interested in lowballs just to prove they have people viewing the property. Everyone knows its a standoff. Come winters end when all the expired listings come back on the market, it will be a buyers delight. The only thing that could make it much worse as a buyer is if prices drop as interest rates rise dramatically. Its a risk I am willing to take.
I experienced same thing w/ lowball offers in Jersey City multi families. No luck and wasted time. Moreover, the arrogance of the selling/listing agents sickens me. If I have my own agent as buyer, no listing agent will show me the house, and then if Foxton’s is the LA, Foxton’s won’t show you the house unless you have your own agent. According to all the LA I call, the few houses I was/am interested on and did not put in offer they are about to go to contract or are in contract near list price. Not that I believe anything a RE agent or seller tells me. I just don’t see the market in my area changing in any significant way yet despite everything I’m reading and the inventory #s being what they are which is up. It’s been a long wait for me as a first time buyer and I just hope there’s some light at the end of this tunnel.
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