Home prices to continue decline

From Bloomberg:

Whitney Says She Sees ‘Double Dip’ in Housing Market

The U.S. housing market will experience a second recession, forcing banks to post additional loan-loss reserves, analyst Meredith Whitney said.

“Most investors are not baking in a double-dip in housing,” Whitney, founder of New York-based Meredith Whitney Advisory Group, said today in an interview on CNBC. “You’re going to see banks post additional reserves associated with this double-dip in housing, and that means weak performance going forward.”

U.S. home prices fell more than 30 percent from their peak in 2006 through the first quarter of 2009, prompting banks to take writedowns on mortgage loans. Housing starts have increased 24 percent since the low in April 2009 as mortgage rates remained near record lows and the U.S. government offered tax credits to homebuyers.

From the WSJ:

Outlook for Home Prices Grows Darker

Housing analysts have grown gloomier about the outlook for U.S. home prices as sales slump, a new survey shows.

The monthly report by MacroMarkets LLC, due for release Wednesday, found that 56% of the 106 economists and other analysts surveyed expect home prices to decline this year. That is up from 40% a month ago.

Since April 30, new purchase contracts have plunged as buyers no longer have the incentive of a federal tax break, builders and real estate agents say. Lawrence Yun, chief economist for the Realtors, estimated that contracts signed in May were 10% to 15% below the weak level of a year earlier.

Ronald Peltier, chief executive officer of HomeServices of America Inc., which owns real estate brokers in 21 states, said new home-purchase contracts in May and June so far are down about 20% from a year earlier. The tax credit accelerated sales that otherwise would have occurred later in the year, Mr. Peltier said.

Terry Loebs, managing director of MacroMarkets, a developer of investment and hedging products based in Madison, N.J., said he believes housing analysts generally have grown more cautious because of the weak national employment data reported in early June and the sharp drop in sales and housing starts since April.

The analysts surveyed by MacroMarkets on average expect home prices, as measured by the S&P/Case-Shiller national index, to decline about 1.4% this year, then rise 1.3% in 2011 and 2.7% in 2012. For the five years ending Dec. 31, 2014, they see a rise of 10.5%. As of Dec. 31, the index was down about 28% from its peak level in mid-2006.

From Bloomberg:

Housing Market Threatens U.S. Recovery as Sales Slide Resumes

The U.S. real estate market threatens to undercut the Obama administration’s stimulus-driven economic recovery as home sales resume their record slide following the end of the federal homebuyer tax credit.

The end of the tax credit in April is putting a strain on a market still hurting from the worst collapse since the Great Depression. Foreclosures may reach 1.9 million this year after a record 2 million in 2009, according to Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics Inc. in West Chester, Pennsylvania. It would take 8.3 months to sell all available 3.89 million existing homes, the Realtors’ association said.

“We’re going to see a home-sales air pocket after the end of the tax-credit stimulus,” said Richard DeKaser, a former economist at the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis who founded Washington-based Woodley Park Research. “That means housing will be a drag on third-quarter economic growth.”

“If there is a sharp decline not only in housing sales but in housing prices, that could threaten a recovery,” said Susan Wachter, a real estate professor at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School in Philadelphia.

The median U.S. home price slid 29 percent to an almost eight-year low of $164,600 in February from a peak of $230,300 in July 2006, according to data from the Realtors group. Prices will drop 3.6 percent this year after falling 4.5 percent in 2009, the Washington-based Mortgage Bankers Association estimates.

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283 Responses to Home prices to continue decline

  1. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Sales of New Homes in U.S. Probably Fell as Tax Credit Expired

    Purchases of new U.S. houses plunged in May by the most in 16 years after a tax credit expired, economists said before a report today.

    The end of the tax advantage means the market will cool until employment picks up enough to lift incomes, brace confidence and contain foreclosures. A lack of inflation and concern over jobs and housing are among reasons Federal Reserve policy makers today may reiterate a pledge to keep interest rates near zero in coming months.

    “The housing market will be much weaker in the absence of the tax credit,” said Harm Bandholz, chief U.S. economist at UniCredit Group in New York. “Building activity is needed to support the economic recovery and that isn’t going to pick up for quite some time. The Fed is in no hurry to raise rates.”

    The Commerce Department’s report is due at 10 a.m. in Washington. Economists’ forecasts ranged from 300,000 to 530,000, after a 504,000 rate in April. Last month’s projected drop would be the biggest since January 1994.

    Hovnanian Enterprises Inc., the largest homebuilder in New Jersey, said orders fell 17 percent in the quarter ended April 30 from a year earlier, and contract signings slowed in May, indicating the tax credit helped pull some sales forward.

  2. grim says:

    Boooo! So much for consumer protection.

    This moves to a whole new level of low, eliminating consumer protection, and reintroducing appraisal fraud to help stabilize the market?

    Really? In honor of this idiocy, let us all join hands and say the Lord’s Prayer.

    Please Lord, just one more bubble, we promise not to piss it all away this time.

    From HousingWire:

    House Members Look to Eliminate HVCC, Change Appraisal Process

    An amendment to the Wall Street Reform Bill being debated today in Congress would eliminate the hotly contested Home Valuation Code of Conduct (HVCC), which has changed much of the home appraisal process since its introduction last year. The Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA) implemented HVCC in May 2009 in an attempt to improve the independence of appraisers by prohibiting lenders and third parties from influencing appraisals. It also limits the interactions between the appraisers and those originating the loan.

    This has led to increasing demand for appraisal management companies (AMCs), while also acting as a magnet for complaints from independent appraisers who claim they’re being undercut out of the market.

    There have been so many reports of HVCC violations, in fact, that the government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs) recently implemented a process to handle them. The volume of complaints, however, hasn’t been enough to sway Edward DeMarco, director of FHFA, to fund an Independent Valuation Protection Institute. In a letter written at the time, DeMarco wrote that the HVCC was having the original desired effect.

    “As intended, the Code has improved the independence of appraisers — reducing opportunities for fraud, protecting consumers in the mortgage process and providing greater confidence to the investor community in their purchases of securities backed by mortgages that have appraisals performed under the Code,” DeMarco wrote. “Ultimately, these effects inure to the benefit of homebuyers as well.”

  3. grim says:

    From the APP:

    3 charged with mortgage fraud in NJ

    The U.S. Attorney’s Office in New Jersey says three people who offered distressed homeowners foreclosure rescue services have been arrested and charged with conspiracy to commit wire fraud.

    Authorities say 40-year-old Ronald Harris Jr. of West Orange, 36-year-old Sterling Bruce of Old Bridge and 46-year-old Sabir Muhammad of South Plainfield conspired to defraud numerous mortgage lenders of over $10 million in fraudulently obtained loans.

    Court papers say the men targeted homeowners facing foreclosure, promising to help them keep their homes and improve their finances if they transferred the title to a third party.

  4. still_looking says:

    Nom, last post, last thread,

    You are the lucky one.
    Go forth and prosper! With your talent, finesse and ability you stand to gain far more. Godspeed, friend.


  5. grim says:

    From the Courier Post:

    Cut red tape to spur job growth

    Private businesses in New Jersey still aren’t hiring, so the recession continues.

    There are a million statistics that economists draw on to say the economy is getting better.

    But for regular people, there’s one thing that offers the clearest sign of economic improvement: jobs.

    New Jersey’s unemployment rate fell from April to May by 0.1 percent to 9.7 percent. It’s small, but still a good sign, right?

    Not really.

    A quick dissection of the numbers reveals that New Jersey remains mired in recession. Overall employment in New Jersey increased by 7,600 jobs. But, that creation was fueled by temporary government hiring, 11,800 jobs, mostly for the federal census. These are strictly temporary jobs that won’t last long.

    In the private sector, New Jersey continued to lose jobs in May, 3,600 altogether.

  6. jp says:

    I smell another bailout coming from obama very soon.

    Won’t be surprised if he allocates the tarp to do this, since the tarp now has more money tham it is owed.

  7. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [4] still


    [197][prior thread] shore

    The fact of my departure is established, but timing isn’t. I am merely guessing that Friday will be my last day from the requests for work I received. I imagine that this is their idea of an orderly transition.

    I do have my own transition plan and it is certainly different from theirs.
    I also intend to let select clients know of my departure, and try to schedule some meetings as soon as possible so that I preempt them on the message.

  8. grim says:

    From Ritholtz:

    Existing Home Sales Slide 2.2%

    We see more evidence that next leg down in Housing has begun, as sales of existing houses fell 2.2% to an annual run rate of 5.66 million sales. These transactions include tax subsidized contracts signed by April 30 and closing by May 31st. Hallucinogenic economists had actually forecast a rise to a 6.12 million rate, according to a Bloomberg survey of 74 stoners.

    We haven’t looked at the usual idiotic blatherings from the National Association of Realtors in quite some time. For shits and giggles, let’s have a gander at their latest, to see if they are still maintaining their traditional high standards of alcohol consumption.

    Ahhh, the Realtor crowd rarely disappoints. The Headline — “May Shows a Continued Strong Pace for Existing-Home Sales” — reveals their inability to separate facts from wishful thinking. Such is what happens when “Spin” is your religion.

  9. New in NJ says:

    Shore Guy says:
    June 23, 2010 at 5:27 am

    Did anyone see that the judge who stopped the oil-drilling ban owns a bunch of stock in an assortment of companies involved in drilling for oil in the Gulf?


    Indeed, but then I suppose that it would be hard to find a judge in Louisiana who doesn’t have some kind of connection to the oil industry. Here is Judge Martin Feldman’s 2008 financial disclosure, the latest one available online. He has or has recently had financial interests in Transocean, Halliburton, Prospect Energy, Hercules Offshore, Parker Drilling Co., and ATP Oil & Gas.


  10. crossroads says:


    sheeple all over the country will pick up their local paper and read the NAR headline and think housing is coming back. “generations to stupid”

    “May Shows a Continued Strong Pace for Existing-Home Sales”

  11. freedy says:

    i am convinced more than ever that we have become so stupid as a country, we may never recover. the american way of life
    as we know it , is gone.

  12. Naysayer says:

    I just looked up the house of someone I know in Annandale, Va. The Zillow estimate for 2006 was $890,000. The Zillow estimate today is $450.

    I was shocked to see that much decline while in my area (Monmouth County), prices have not dropped significantly. I haven’t been following the DC area. Any ideas why the big drop there and not here?

  13. Final Doom says:

    grim (2)-

    The corpse is dead. It has been shocked, transfused and stimmed. It has been covered in makeup and propped up in a chair, all to create the fascimile of life.

    Can’t bring back the dead. And now, the corpse is beginning to rot and stink.

    That’s the stench of death that fills my nostrils every morning.

  14. Final Doom says:


    Wanna get involved in short sales?

    I can build some outrageous fees into the packages.

    Let me know.

  15. Essex says:

    Doom….found your new favorite band

    Five Finger Death Punch…..

    Great cover of “Bad Company”

  16. Final Doom says:

    Some Clodwell Bunco bigwig coming up on Squawk. No doubt he’ll be lying his ass off.

  17. Final Doom says:

    sx (15)-

    Love it. These guys sound like a cross between Drive like Jehu and Crash Test Dummies.

    Righteous weaponry in that video. Inspiring.

  18. Final Doom says:

    Natch, the Clodwell douche starts out by lying about employment numbers.

    Now trying to work the “pant-up demand” angle.

  19. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Clot watching also ,guy full of sh*t.

  20. cooper says:

    Geithner Yet Again Misrepresents TARP “Performance”

    “The problem with propaganda is that it is generally effective. Utter the Big Lie often enough and most people will come to believe it.

    The Obama Administration has engaged in persistent misrepresentation of the outcome of the TARP equity injections, which is a manifestation of its early decision to reconstitute as much as possible, the banking industry that had just driven itself and the global economy off the cliff. Albert Einstein defined insanity as “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” The decision of the new Administration to cast its lot with an unreformed banking industry locked it into a course of action.”

    “Extend and pretend is rampant. Not only are asset values inflated by super cheap funding, which is not going to be with us forever, but there is considerable evidence that banks are making assets at utterly indefensible levels. We’ve pointed repeatedly to Mike Konczal’s quick and dirty analysis of second mortgages, which suggests the four biggest banks are overstating their equity by roughly $150 billion. We have also had readers who work at dealer banks tell us of wildly unrealistic marks on CMBS. And the big banks, per Chris Whalen, are reporting unrealistic earnings and equity levels due to taking insufficiently low loan loss reserves.

    But Geithner would have you believe all is well in bank-land. Paulson discovered he could not kick the can down the road to the next Adminsitration. Team Obama believes he will be re-elected, and it presumably does not think it can paper over problems for another six years. Thus it appears they are unable to distinguish between mere cosmetics and real progress. Scary indeed.”


  21. Shore Guy says:

    “The Headline May Shows a Continued Strong Pace for Existing-Home Sales reveals their inability to separate facts from wishful thinking”

    And a plane falling from the sky may pick up speed on its way to an energetic encounter with the ground. So, “pace” is not a very good measure of health.

  22. Final Doom says:

    Makes me wish I could get to Toronto this weekend and hurl some rotten tomatoes at Eraserhead.

    “Earlier today we noted that German Chancellor Angela Merkel ridiculed Geithner’s declining influence ahead of the upcoming G-20 by not only openly ignoring his call to Keynesian arms, but saying that what he is doing is tantamount to long-term economic suicide: “If we don’t get onto a path of sustainable economic growth but have rather a growth bubble, then if the next crisis comes we won’t be able to pay for it.” Well, as the joke goes, women once again demonstrate more testicular fortitude than their XY companions: shortly after this announcement, Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-WA), who previously warned against the $100 billion U.S. burden to bail out Europe via the IMF, is now blasting Geithner’s “Spend and Borrow” policies to be advocated at the G20 summit in a letter sent to the tax-challenged Keynesianite (enclosed), further saying that the “president is doubling down on the path to bankruptcy.”


  23. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Clot by the way been planning the “tall grass house tour” new one every day. Spring selling my a**.
    More like spring default season. The grass just helps in identifying them.
    See you soon?

  24. Final Doom says:

    mike (24)-

    First week or two of July still looks good.

    E-mail: chipdothughes@attdotnet

  25. Pat wowed by USA says:

    Amazing how certain pent-up employer anti-employee actions happen directly after a Supreme Court ruling. This week, we learn that an employer can read your personal messages if they have some business-related reason to do so. Previously, many (tow-the-line typs) assumed that, Of Course, an employer had that right, if you were using their equipment, and it was work time. But those types forget that such privacy was a right- an assumed condition- when the tool was the phone (unless you worked in a customer service environment with advanced notice that calls were regularly monitored).

    A wave of privacy violations is coming as your employer pushes the envelope.

  26. Confused in NJ says:

    Lets give Angela Merkel a Hawaii Birth Certificate & elect her President. If nothing else she’ll get rid of Geitner & Bernanke.

  27. House Whine says:

    26- I’m a bit confused- does the ruling apply to when a worker logs into his home email account and writes about a business-related topic while he/she is using the employer owned computer? If yes, then basically the employer can tap into your home email on just the suspicion of your emailing something business related?

  28. jj says:

    My favorite is companies use GPS on BBs and cell phones that track your location. It is so precise I know a IT worker who was on call who left his BB in kitchen when he went to bed and a few hours his home phone rang and company wanted to know why he is in bed without his BB by his side. He is required 24/7 to have bb with him so company can track him. For DR/BCP/On call purposes of course.

  29. Yikes says:

    jp says:
    June 23, 2010 at 6:15 am

    I smell another bailout coming from obama very soon.

    Won’t be surprised if he allocates the tarp to do this, since the tarp now has more money tham it is owed.

    i think the plan all along was to save a large chunk for this year or next – in hopes of a temporary band-aid just in time … for voting.

    then it all falls apart again in 2013 (assuming the Mayan calendar was incorrect)

  30. jj says:

    Kudlow also said NYC housing market is getting weaker.

    When a raging insane BULL on all things is saying something is getting weak the shit is hitting the fan

  31. Pat wowed by USA says:

    Whine, here it is. You decide how far an employer will push it.

    I think they’ll push it.


  32. Pat wowed by USA says:

    Of most concern to me is how far “from the work site” will be considered viewable on a personal wireless device.

    Smoking zone? Bathroom? Parking lot, if ER pays fees for the lot?

  33. jj says:

    kudlow also said Chris Christie is doing a great job by not taxing rich and he understands free market capitiliism is way to growth not taxing the rich of NJ so they all move to florida.

  34. grim says:

    Mortgage purchase index falls, surprise surprise.

    Second lowest level in 13 years.

    No problems here, housing is going up up up.

  35. Juice Box says:

    Kudlow ha should have offered him an 8 ball to tell you what he really thinks about the markets.

  36. x-underwriter says:

    Naysayer (12)

    The housing market in DC ‘suburbs’ has corrected. Price it right, it sells in days. Overprice it, it sits until seller capitulates. Washington DC is a whole ‘nother story…still very overpiced due to proximity to capitol.
    Jersey is just as clueless as ever

  37. Yikes says:

    Hey Clot, Bradley has benched Gooch for the game. Smart move, right?

    Bornstein starting in his place.

    Also Gomez up front for Findley isn’t a bad move (i might have gone Buddle, but I think we’ll see him, anyway).

    Edu also starting for Torres.

  38. Sal says:

    Can Clot or Grim refer us to an Agent/Broker around Parsippany/Millburn area? We are looking for an agent who can deal with REO situation. Thanks in advance!

  39. Confused in NJ says:

    Albany, NY — The state Senate voted unanimously Tuesday to ban using embalming fluid as a recreational drug.

    By a 61-0 vote, senators voted to make it a misdemeanor to possess embalming with the intent to inhale it, ingest it or sell it to someone to do so

  40. meter says:

    @21 –

    I know we’re on a path toward self-immolation as a nation, but h3ll am I glad I’ll get mine until we go over that cliff.

    Working in banking has its rewards.

  41. meter says:

    The downside is the recognition that everything you’re doing is contributing to the downfall, but oh well. Nobody else cares, why should I.

    Also: apologies for the mixed metaphor in prior post.

  42. Libtard and the City says:

    Are you guys ready for the market implosion at 10am?

  43. Juice Box says:

    Lol – from huff post “Administration to Try to Stop McCrystal with Junk Shot.”

    Also another diddy about the General and his staff of cohorts featured in the Rolling Stones Article.

    The general’s staff is a handpicked collection of killers, spies, geniuses, patriots, political operators and outright maniacs. There’s a former head of British Special Forces, two Navy Seals, an Afghan Special Forces commando, a lawyer, two fighter pilots and at least two dozen combat veterans and counterinsurgency experts. They jokingly refer to themselves as Team America, taking the name from the South Park-esque sendup of military cluelessness, and they pride themselves on their can-do attitude and their disdain for authority.

  44. Mr Hyde says:


    Both my condolences and congratulations. I agree that you stand to gain from the situation in the end.

    Mike, clot

    Give me a few days heads up and i can join you guys.


    Always assume they are watching any communications run through the companies networks. There are ways to mitigate it though such as running a VPN through a wireless data plan to your home PC.

  45. Mr Hyde says:



    run an ENCRYPTED VPN back to your home PC

  46. derministr says:

    Thanks, now at each useful theme are the blog))

  47. Libtard and the City says:


    Don’t type anything on the internet that could place you in a precarious position with your employer.

    Encryption don’t do sh1t against a keystroke recorder installed by IT running silently in the background.

  48. Libtard and the City says:


    As my buying agent likes to say, “Onward and upward.” To which I prefer to reply, “Onward and downword.”

    I really think she dislikes me, but she’s still working with me. When I asked her if Gator and I were her worst clients, she said, not even close. She has a few she has worked with for multiple years who have not even made a single offer. I think we made 2 solids and one softee.

  49. Libtard and the City says:

    Didn’t look at the report yet, but I see the market quickly dropped a half a percent.

  50. Libtard and the City says:

    300K…goodbye market…hello double dip!

  51. relo says:

    Ket: Pvs. thread – Breaking Bad?

    Nom: Definitely get the message out to clients. Don’t let them “Bob Sugar” you.

  52. Jamal Van Jones says:

    New home sales down 32.7% . A mere flesh wound.

  53. Libtard and the City says:

    Consensus was 380 to 480. Adios tacos.

  54. Mr Hyde says:


    Ket: Pvs. thread – Breaking Bad?


  55. relo says:

    54: Apparently i should watch less tv.

  56. Sal says:

    Now days, Agents are so busy that no one give one phone call to a client. They cannot even have enough hands to refer someone to a potential client. I thought the houses are not selling. I guess that is my mistake.

  57. Juice Box says:

    Pat – when accessing personal information like email, facebook etc from work choose the SSL connection. The encrypted communication cannot be read by most monitoring software. To hack the SSL communication your company would need to substitute the Browser certified encryption certificate with a fake one.

    Here is an recent article on how to do it. Most companies will not go to this length except for perhaps the COMPANY A.K.A. CIA.


  58. Libtard and the City says:

    Ten year at 3.13. 52 week range bottoms at 3.10.

    Record low interest rates and sales collapse equals happy buyers. Now if just some damn inventory would come on the market. Come on banks, push those who had no place to be in those homes into the streets already. That’s right, you can’t cause your insolvent. Wouldn’t want to actually have to record that hit to your balance sheet.

    FHA is officially at the top of my death pool.

  59. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Ket 46 will do.

  60. hughesrep says:


    Which area of Monmouth are you in? In my neighborhood prices have dropped 10% since I bought in September. Let the tax appeals begin.


    10 year just hit 3.09 on googles page.

  61. Shore Guy says:


    May new home sales plunge to record low

  62. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Where is Veto’s prediction chart. I may have been to optimistic. Stu62: April was revised downward by 99k also , good times.

  63. Shore Guy says:



    What your chart seems to show is that higher mortgage rtes result in a greater number of sales. We better jack up rates.

  64. Shore Guy says:

    C’mon folks, it is time to stop trying to defy gravity and let the market drop to where it should be. At that point sales volume will return to normal levels.

  65. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Thanks Shore , heard on radio was looking for link to data.

  66. Libtard and the City says:

    Shore Guy:

    I actually thought the same thing Shore. I always thought record (and I actually mean it, unlike those fibbing realtors) low interest rates would keep the ball rolling. At this rate, I may have to start performing some math to see if it makes sense to refinance again.

  67. Libtard and the City says:

    Yup… See the 3.09 too.

  68. jcer says:

    Libtard, yes indeed I have found various surveillance applications running on my company pc, hence why I have an outside PC I use for everything(mostly because the spyware makes the machine very,very slow), I even managed to hook it up to exchange. So step 1 bring in external pc, step 2 encrypted connection to outside, step 3 big brother in IT doesn’t know what your doing.

  69. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Now let me get this straight housing going back to the stone-age (98 price) ,unemployment at 9.7 or so & no double dip recession coming. Please pass the kool-aid.

  70. Mr Hyde says:


    There seems to be quite the political theater around McChrystal. it seems his affronts to the president were an intentional confrontation. You have to wonder what the point was. Given his background i doubt any such actions as those that lead to this confrontation were accidental.

  71. Mr Hyde says:

    By the way, it looks like there is a real possibility of a worst case scenario hurricane hitting the GOM oil leak in the next week. Final track isnt settled yet, apparently we should know towards the end of the week.

  72. Pat wowed by USA says:

    Guys, my concern is not the lack of ways around (privacy fabrication; vigilante defense).

    My concern is the Supreme Court relying on “commonly-accepted” assumptions, like yours. We’ve begun to repetitively type on the internet that the employer – in many cases meaning the IT department trying to justify its existence and build its influence)- is already stretching its monitoring.

    We do not know the full extent, therefore we cannot rely on the Supreme Court’s decision based on the fact that “everybody already assumes employers are monitoring personal communications therefore its O.K.”

    It’s not O.K., and it’s an erosion of our rights.

  73. Mr Hyde says:


    I am not an attorney, but most companies i have worked for have you sign an agreement saying that all telecomunications access provided by the company is for business only and will be monitored.

    one of the legal beagles on the blog will have comment on the legality of such agreements, but i believe that they have stood up to challenges so far. As such, if you want private communications use telecoms not owned by the company such as a wireless data plan and a personal mini-laptop, or a smart phone

  74. jcer says:

    Pat, the monitoring is really dumb. As far as i’m concerned in any industries the most important thing is ensuring data is sent out. The best bet is to set up virtualized systems with sand boxes to prevent what your working on from making it to the internet. Otherwise who cares what your looking at.

  75. grim says:


    Its not that agents are busy due to additional workload, it’s that we are busy dealing with clients that are most likely to connsumate a transaction.

    It is simply too expensive to be a weekend tourguide and babysitter these days.

    Any decent
    Agent should be able to gauge seriousness if the buyer in a matter of minutes.

  76. jcer says:

    many industries and making sure data isn’t sent out.

  77. jj says:

    “decent agent”?

  78. jcer says:

    Internet monitoring is akin to not permitting the use of ash trays to curb smoking. It just doesn’t work.

  79. Firestormik says:

    VPN to you home won’t help you since your employer can intercept all your keystrokes by force-installing a program on you work PC.

  80. grim says:


    7-series minimum, not one of those 5-series pikers.

  81. jurisprude says:


    BIGLAW in Newark? Is this the firm that fired half of their first year class last year and whose name is now morphed into a verb? The same firm that was voted “coolest” a couple years earlier?

  82. Naysayer says:

    64- hughesrep

    I am in Middletown/Atlantic Highlands. A 10% dip is not enough to make houses affordable relative to income. I’m still seeing ugly split levels that need new kitchens and baths in horrible neighborhoods asking $400,000+ Anything halfway nice runs $550,000 and up. Still not affordable in my opinion.

  83. Final Doom says:

    yikes (39)-

    All smart moves.

  84. Mr Hyde says:

    Firestorm 83

    what if you run a virtual machine off of a thumb drive? That should avoid the corporate systems.

    its not an issue for me as i provide my own web access anyway for private stuff

  85. Final Doom says:

    pat (76)-

    News flash: as a middle-class Amerikan, you don’t have any rights. You have an obligation to be a silent drone for your pathetic, corrupt employer…and you have an obligation to empty your wallet to various forms of our corrupt, fascist gubmint for the puropse of redistribution to their bankster paymasters and their indolent, slothful voter base.

    It won’t get any better until we start taking out these SOBs.

    “We do not know the full extent, therefore we cannot rely on the Supreme Court’s decision based on the fact that “everybody already assumes employers are monitoring personal communications therefore its O.K.”

    It’s not O.K., and it’s an erosion of our rights.”

  86. Sal says:

    79 Grim

    As soon as we tell any agent that we have been waiting for 5 years to look for a house, they just assume we are not serious. We made a mistake to tell them that. Now we call any agent about one house, they don’t even return a call. How serious those listing agent can be? Is that mean there is no decent agent left? or they are too good to deal with us who has been waiting too long?

  87. Final Doom says:

    sal (90)-

    I am a good agent. I ONLY work with “today” buyers. I tell “tomorrow” buyers to call me on the tomorrow at which they become today buyers.

    If you have been waiting for 5 years to buy a house, the first thing I know for sure is that you will be waiting at least another 18-24 months before starting to look. So why would I waste my time on you now?

    I am sure, however, that any number of desperate nincompoops will drive you around and give you a wrap-around for a few weeks.

  88. Final Doom says:

    IMO, anyone who has been waiting for 5 years to buy a house is very likely to never buy a house.

  89. Final Doom says:

    My brother is 42. He’s been looking for the right girl for 17 years.

    We all know how this will end, too.

  90. Sal says:

    Clot (91)-

    I see. So Good agent like you wouldn’t even consider to even talk to us about a house we have all the paper works to get loans and already look at the house. All we need to do is to make an offer. But then again, any good agents don’t want to make yesterdays offer today anyways.

  91. Final Doom says:

    In GSMLS, 93% of all transactions are two-sided (meaning the buyer has his own agent). The calls I get on my listings from buyers are for:

    1. specific info on the listing…which I’m happy to give

    2. a request for a showing…at which point I tell the caller to have his agent show the house

    3. getting me to divulge things about the listing that would force me to violate fiduciary duties…no

  92. grim says:

    Cold calling listing agents is doing yourself a disservice, find yourself a dedicated buyers agent and use him or her.

  93. jcer says:

    Sal, my experience in NJ is most agents are lazy and suck. They haven’t had to work in years to make sales and are not adjusting well. I don’t really get calls back all that often and I’m serious and have a pile of cash.

  94. Final Doom says:

    sal (94)-

    Exactly. Because I can already tell you want tomorrow’s price today.

    But tomorrow, when you may become a today buyer, feel free to give me a call.

    Sorry to be so blunt, but you may have noticed that we’re approaching a point at which there will be about 150 agents in the whole state of NJ who have a viable, profitable business. I aim to be one of those 150, so I don’t waste time j-offing lookers.

  95. Final Doom says:

    grim (96)-

    Second that.

  96. Final Doom says:

    BTW, Sal, I’m not all bad attitude and laziness. I do, however, look to develop a long-term business relationship with clients who will take the time to explain their needs and goals…then work with me in taking a look at a whole selection of homes that might be a good fit.

    Dropping everything to show- or write an offer for- one listing is not terribly interesting to me, nor does it fit the way I do business.

  97. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “IMO, anyone who has been waiting for 5 years to buy a house is very likely to never buy a house.”


    Sold in 2005, still waiting.

  98. Final Doom says:

    BC (101)-

    I think we’ve established that you’re an outlier. :)

  99. Sal says:

    grim (96)

    That is all I am doing. Looking For a Buyer’s Agent! I don’t ask any agent to even go around the house for us. We do the most of the homework. Until we are serous enough then we did ask the agent to show us the house inside. But, I get it now why our ex-agent doesn’t call us back. Because we have been look for a house 5 years. If clot predicition/statement is correct then we will be looking for a house for 6 years. Then what? We cannot ever find an agent to represent us?

    We are serous enough to make an offer for this house but cannot find buyers agent so desperate enough to call the listing agent. What else can we do?

  100. jj says:

    or just pick up phone and call home owner

    grim says:
    June 23, 2010 at 11:31 am
    Cold calling listing agents is doing yourself a disservice, find yourself a dedicated buyers agent and use him or her.

  101. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Doom [102],

    Then again, if Larry Crudelow is bearish housing, it may be time to pick up a new set of boots.

  102. Sal says:

    jj (104)

    I wish I could. This house is REO.

  103. jj says:

    btw are their male realtors? I have never seen one? Isn’t that like a male elementary teacher or male nurse?

  104. make money says:


    Who’s sitting on top of our C group?
    We will beat Germany and suprise everyone.

    IMO, Bill Clinton went to South Africa cause every call girl worth something is down there earning this month.

  105. Mr Hyde says:

    make Money 109

    How’s south africa? Dont forget the trojans.

  106. make money says:

    I’m not in South Africa…I wish I was though.

  107. Essex says:

    Jj or a banker with a soul?

  108. Happy Daze says:

    I was laughing at this yesterday:

    $75M mansion near Orlando selling ‘as is’


    Make sure you check out the photos.

    It’s also covered in other news sources if you’re interested.

  109. Yikes says:

    Landon. Donovan.


  110. meter says:

    What’s amazing is that Altidore’s adrenaline booted that first attempt over the crossbar and the same for Dempsey on the post rebound where he had a wide open net.

    Sh*t happens, but the US should have had at least 2 goals and more likely 3 entering stoppage counting the poor off-sides call that nullified the first goal.

  111. Nomad says:

    #113 – may LeBron will buy it.

  112. maylook1day says:

    “IMO, anyone who has been waiting for 5 years to buy a house is very likely to never buy a house.”

    On the sidelines for 4 years. Bid on 2 homes in that time. In 2006 very lucky to not have had the ‘winning bid’ and even lucker to find njrereport at that time. Bid in 2008 10k off sellers price but they would not concede. I was lucky then too, house never sold, still sitting.

    I will buy eventually for sure.

  113. Shore Guy says:

    If I were president, whether I loved or hated the general and his performance, I would have fired him this morning and made sure that folks knew that any disloyal head will roll:


  114. Shore Guy says:

    Here is a headline just made for John:

    “Virgin Passengers Stranded on Tarmac for Hours
    CBS News – 49 minutes ago “

  115. Sal says:

    I never thought it is more difficult to find a buyer’s agent than finding a home for us. We did bid on 2008 once and we still regret that house. But it was REO and bank wanted the multiple offer at that time. We don’t want to use the same agent. Now, find another REO and serious enough to make an offer, but hey Good agents are too busy to sell a house to irresponsible buyer who still needs FHA loans for todays price tag than people like us who patiently waited to save down payment and right house to buy within means.

  116. Barbara says:

    “IMO, anyone who has been waiting for 5 years to buy a house is very likely to never buy a house.”

    if we never go back to saner times, 99-02ish…and account for some inflation, then price from there…then yeah, I may never buy again. Right now I’m banking on that ghost inventory, but am bracing for a “bulldoze bailout” then I’m out.

  117. Barbara says:

    I’ve never met a buyers agent, and I’ve been buying houses since 1991. They are all sellers agents.

  118. Sal says:


    I know that too. I just need the “seller’s agent” to write an offer to another “seller’s agent”

  119. Shore Guy says:

    NFL hall of famer Taylor Indicted on rape, child endangerment charges
    CNN – Ross Levitt, Alan Chernoff – ‎27 minutes ago‎
    By the CNN Wire Staff New York (CNN) — Football Hall of Fame linebacker Lawrence Taylor was indicted Wednesday on charges of rape and endangering the welfare of a child, stemming from an alleged sexual rendezvous with a 16-year-old in May, …
    Lawrence Taylor indicted on NY rape charges The Associated Press
    Ex-Giants star Lawrence Taylor indicted on charges of rape, criminal sexual … New York Daily News
    NBC New York – Kansas City Star – USA Today – WEEI.com
    all 389 news articles »Email this story

  120. Shore Guy says:

    So, hire Grim.

  121. Shore Guy says:

    Breaking news: BHO fired McChrystal.

  122. Barbara says:

    Sal, write the offer yourself. In a letter, put it in their mailbox with your lawyers number. If they are serious about selling, they’ll figure out a way to make that work. If they don’t respond, they weren’t going to take your offer anyway no matter who represented it. Realtors are just their to supply and turn keys and then lock up.

  123. Barbara says:

    Sal, agents won’t give offers because they are keenly aware of the fact that the seller does not have the 70k cash to bring to the table to make up the difference with the bank or banks and if they DID, they’d sooner default and keep that cash then eventually walk away. Sal, in a few months, all sales will be short sales or REO. You won’t be dealing with buyer/seller agents, you will be dealing with your lawyer and a bank and maybe an agent that specializes in shorts/reo only. 98% of the realawhores out there have no idea what they are doing with regards to these types of sales.

  124. Sal says:

    I am sure I will not get to talk to clot or grim. They are way to busy. Besides, clot contradict a bit himself. He says he wants a long business relationship with his clients and build a portfolio for them and not interested in writing one time offer, but yet he doesn’t want to show any of the houses in his list to client to waste his weekends. I have plenty time to explain what we want and what we are looking for. He doesn’t want to spent time with us because we are looking for it too long. He wants us to call him 18-24th later to do business with him so that he can ignore us for waiting even longer than 5 years. He simply assumes we want tomorrows price. I want yesterdays price, not even today’s price. But that is ok. I will find somebody to do their job right.

  125. Sal says:


    I hope what you say will come true. I am tired with any agents out there.

  126. Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:

    This one goes out to Clot and all the rest of you US of A doubters out there, hit it LEE:


  127. Confused in NJ says:

    NEW ORLEANS – Tens of thousands of gallons more oil gushed into the Gulf of Mexico on Wednesday after an undersea robot bumped a venting system, forcing BP to remove the cap that had been containing some of the crude.

    It was yet another setback in the nine-week effort to stop the gusher, and it came as thick pools of oil washed up on Pensacola Beach in Florida and the Obama administration tried to figure out how to resurrect a six-month moratorium on deepwater drilling.

    When the robot bumped the system just before 10 a.m. Wednesday, gas rose through the vent that carries warm water down to prevent ice-like crystals from forming, Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen said.

    Crews were checking to see if crystals had formed before putting it back on. BP spokesman Bill Salvin could not say how long that might take.

    “We’re doing it as quickly as possible,” he said.

  128. Justin says:

    The US is in need for a top class striker. Altidore and Gomez aren’t there, yet, and whenever Dempsey pushes up he just doesn’t have the top notch touch. Maybe we can convince Drogba to become an American.

  129. prtraders2000 says:


    Good luck with the house.

    I see your spell check works, but I can’t help hearing Yoda when I read your posts…

    ” clot contradict a bit himself “

  130. Mr Hyde says:


    here you go, one world class striker.


  131. Juice Box says:

    gotta love how the MSM turns McCrystal’s resignation into a firing for Obama.

  132. maylook1day says:

    – hard to believe amidst the writing on the wall the market continues to melt up or trade sideways.

  133. Mr Hyde says:

    Well lets be honest with ourselves.

    The majority of people who are buying homes right now are most likely purchasing a nice fat boat anchor which is promptly chained around their neck.

  134. make money says:


    I agree with you 100%.

    However, that said we have qualified in the round of 16 undefeated and won our group.
    Germany, Serbia or Ghana are beatable and the next game is against the winner of Uruguay vs. South Korea.
    Table is really set for USA to really make a run.
    This late goal could have them start really believing in destiny and themselves and before you know it we are in the semifinals.

  135. sas3 says:

    Clot #91

    Re, tomorrow’s buyers vs today’s buyers. I recall you talking about “you can’t get tomorrows prices today”. But, based on my experience and my friend’s (I was fishing for a few months before moving very quickly; my friend was searching/waiting for several years before taking an unexpected quick jump to Texas), sometimes the reluctant buyers can actually be strong buyers — most likely the only thing blocking would be them making up their mind [vs loan qualifications, contingencies, etc., for normal buyers]. It is probably a low-percentage shot, but when it works it is usually gets the point right away.

  136. Nomad says:

    All this speculation on home prices.

    Our government owes more money that it can repay for decades, our country is not creating jobs, unemployment remains high, # home owners under water is in the millions, worst oil spill in history, military ship buildup of coast of iran, foreclosures continue to grow, many people don’t event have enough cash to buy a house…

    It’s just a matter of time folks, no longer if but when. You can show me all the graphs and data you want, if things don’t implode, then at best is a slow agonizing trip to the bottom and a long rest once we get there.

  137. meter says:

    @141 –

    If we end up lucky or perform well enough to win the next game and face Uruguay in the subsequent match, the run ends right there.

  138. Mr Hyde says:


    I am not political guru, far from it, but it appears to me that there is more then meets the eye (no transformers though).

    A 4 star general doesnt “accidentally” get overheard making disparaging remarks about the president or giving an interview to RS in which he disparages the administration without knowing exactly what the consequences will be.

    Maybe Nom has some thoughts on what the end game is. A protest against the latest rules of engagement? a move to build himself a future political carrer?

  139. jj says:

    not for long I am hopping in a cab

    Shore Guy says:
    June 23, 2010 at 1:27 pm
    Here is a headline just made for John:

    “Virgin Passengers Stranded on Tarmac for Hours
    CBS News – 49 minutes ago “

  140. jj says:

    WTF would anyone want a long term relationship with a realtor. That is a sign of an incompetent realtor. Sell me a house I love at the right price that I want to live in to the day I die. What you sell me a pos then come back and sell me a slightly better pos, then move me to a house too big and then come back to move me to a smaller home for retirement. Yea that is what realtors love upselling you then downselling you.

    Sal says:
    June 23, 2010 at 1:57 pm
    I am sure I will not get to talk to clot or grim. They are way to busy. Besides, clot contradict a bit himself. He says he wants a long business relationship with his clients and build a portfolio for them and not interested in writing one time offer, but yet he doesn’t want to show any of the houses in his list to client to waste his weekends. I have plenty time to explain what we want and what we are looking for. He doesn’t want to spent time with us because we are looking for it too long. He wants us to call him 18-24th later to do business with him so that he can ignore us for waiting even longer than 5 years. He simply assumes we want tomorrows price. I want yesterdays price, not even today’s price. But that is ok. I will find somebody to do their job right.

  141. sas3 says:

    Hyde #146,

    A six year long career at Fox demanding to see the President’s “real” birth certificate.


  142. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [85] jurisprude,

    No, I don’t think so. Could be since departures here are kept quiet to the level of being state secrets so as to not hurt morale. But I don’t think we did that.

    Separately, it occurs to me that we will have gone from 6 associates to 2 in our group in the past 3 months. But I knew back in December that there’d be cuts, and I knew I was on the block. Timingwise, I figured it would have happened in late July, after 2nd quarter numbers. So I was off by a month.

    And I have been taking steps to avoid being “Bob Sugared.” Given the tech thread, I’ll just leave it at that.

  143. Nicholas says:

    jj says:

    June 23, 2010 at 8:03 am
    My favorite is companies use GPS on BBs and cell phones that track your location. It is so precise I know a IT worker who was on call who left his BB in kitchen when he went to bed and a few hours his home phone rang and company wanted to know why he is in bed without his BB by his side. He is required 24/7 to have bb with him so company can track him. For DR/BCP/On call purposes of course.

    I’m afraid to break it to you…GPS isn’t that accurate especially indoors. They wouldn’t be able to tell that he didn’t have his phone with him when he went to sleep if he left it downstairs. It is more likely that they installed remote cameras to pull something off like that.

  144. Mr Hyde says:

    SAS3 149

    Given his background and what i have read of his personality i would be a little surprised if that was it.

  145. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [146] hyde

    Actually, I believe it was accidental. Consider that these guys are hubris personified. And how smart is it to let a Rolling Stone reporter embed? Like you can control that message?

    [149] sas3

    Good one!

  146. jurisprude says:

    [150] Nom,

    Do you mind if I ask what practice group you’re in? I am in litigation; pretty much a generalist.

    Left BIGLAW firm almost two years ago. I think any juniors/mid-levels who *wants* to work in a firm where the partner/associate ratio is more than 1 to 1 (think Cravath, Sullivan, Davis Polk, etc.) is CRAZY.

  147. Mr Hyde says:


    It is more likely that they installed remote cameras

    Now we need to EMP our own homes annually at the same time we call the exterminator and do spring cleaning?

    Damn Bugs!!!!

  148. Nicholas says:

    The housing market in DC ’suburbs’ has corrected. Price it right, it sells in days. Overprice it, it sits until seller capitulates. Washington DC is a whole ‘nother story…still very overpiced due to proximity to capitol.
    Jersey is just as clueless as ever

    Yes prices have dropped about 40-50% in some DC suburbs. There were areas around DC that rose 300% during the bubble though so some do have more room to fall. The issue is that black and other ethnic communities were preyed upon by bankers. They sold interest-only loans to these communities and they bought property not knowing the true cost of the loan.

    These communities are collapsing now because prices ballooned and now are crumbling. Inventory is still too high in many areas.

  149. jurisprude says:

    [150] Nom,

    By the way, I was thinking Latham & Watkins. Now, if an associate gets laid off, we say that person is “Lathamed.”

  150. Juice Box says:

    re: #146 Hyde –

    Hyde – The end game in Washington DC to save face period. We will be withdrawing from Afghanistan in a year and in the interim Obama has stopped bombing of military targets to reduce civilian deaths. McCrystal probably did not want to be written down in the History books as the General who lead to our defeat, and was probably tired of being ignored by Washington.

    More importantly this administration knows Osama Bin Laden claimed victory against the Russians when they withdrew in 1989 after a bloody 10 year war where the Russians lost 13k soldiers and perhaps a million Afghans were killed. (Osama claims he was the reason for the fall of Communist Russia as well (no mention of the US)).

    Washington DC knows this time around nothing has changed in Afghanistan since the Russians were there other than the fact that the US Taxpayer is now paying the Taliban Warlords not to hijack our convoys and allowing the Opium growers to have a bumper crop we are losing this war against the Pashtun goat herders.

  151. jcer says:

    Remote cameras, silly people, the cameras are on the blackberry, front and back. They turned on the camera and saw kitchen. They didn’t see bedroom or pocket.

  152. Nicholas says:

    There are scads of people heading over to Afghanistan. I can count 5 that I know personally.

    If I can count 5 people that means that a lot of people are heading over there. The ones that I know are heading over in the next three months and they will be staying for 364 days.

    In addition, they are on target for the most number of UAV drone attacks this year.


    I’m not sure what you mean by withdrawing within a year. I don’t agree with that statement. We will be in Afghanistan for some time to come.

  153. Nicholas says:

    There have been extensive draw downs in Iraq though. I don’t know of a single person that is heading over to the desert. I would expect that there will be further force reductions and eventually we will leave only a few bases occupied.

  154. jcer says:

    Afganistan==natural resources, we’re not leaving anytime soon!

  155. Mr Hyde says:

    Nicholas 160

    But we wont be “at war” it will only be “peace keeping/police actions” ;)

  156. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [157] jurisprude

    Oh, I know that place, and hate it. No one I knew who ever worked there was mentally balanced. And Latham, like Skadden, was one of the first firms in the early 90’s to start mass layoffs.

    I did know one guy from my NYU class that went there. He was pretty nuts in his own right, but that place was too nutty for him, and he left.

    I also worked for someone that summered there and did not get a job, even though she was unbalanced enough to work there. Rumor was that she got bombed and punched another summer at an event. Further rumor was that her daddy knew the managing partner at my old firm, and lo and behold, she got an offer. But she bolted our group for another group within a year of arriving.

  157. Qwerty says:

    RE: “Tens of thousands of gallons more oil gushed into the Gulf of Mexico on Wednesday”

    The number is actually 700,000 more gallons per day, which is the amount they suctioned into a tanker daily, but are now unable to suction out:


    More oil gushing into Gulf after problem with cap
    Jun 23 02:50 PM US/Eastern

    Before the problem with the containment cap, it had collected about 700,000 gallons of oil in 24 hours and sucked it up to a ship on the surface. That’s oil that’s now pouring into the Gulf.

  158. jp says:

    it’s official. obama does not support his troop.

  159. I can’t but agree.I always wanted to write in my site something like that but I guess you’r faster.

  160. Qwerty says:

    Good weather expected this weekend, time for an 8th White House golf outing since the Gulf Disaster began?


  161. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [157] jurisprude,

    I was going to answer your question and when I tried, my browser went down. Wonder if I am being monitored?

    Then again, what are they gonna do, fire me again?

  162. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [168] qwerty

    One nice thing about leaving biglaw is that I will get to play golf almost as much as the president.

  163. Shore Guy says:

    This sounds like something Kettle would do:


  164. Mr Hyde says:

    Hey grim

    check this out!!! it should be right up your alley

  165. Shore Guy says:


    Do you have to go back tomorrow? Or are you on a couple month leave?

  166. Nicholas says:

    I’m pretty tech savvy and I’m a researcher in my own right. Normally a company won’t monitor your communications until they have reason to believe that you are wasting company time/resources. Someone complains to HR that your looking at pron, facebook, or generally surfing the web all day. Once HR picks up the complaint then they have to start monitoring your activity and notify you of your responsibility to get back to work.

    It is too costly to have someone monitor your actions all day long. It is even too costly to have someone program a computer to monitor your actions all day long. Kinda like drug testing…they only test if you do stupid things or talk about your drug habits.

  167. Nomad says:

    Coldwell Banker CEO says now is the best time to buy a home

    If I can get this guy to buy the house on my behalf with his cash, I’m all in.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/now%27s-the-%22absolute-best-time%22-to-buy-a-home-coldwell-banker-ceo 507986.html;_ylt=AjhsZBWbsCRF6hSFw7iyflu7YWsA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2dDltYXZpBHBvcwMxMQRzZWMDdG9wU3RvcmllcwRzbGsDbm93c3RoZWFic29s?tickers=XHB,,tol,len,phm,dhi,low,hd&sec=topStories&pos=9&asset=&ccode=

  168. make money says:

    If scores hold US will play Australia next round. That’s teh equivalent of a Bye week.

  169. Ben says:

    For anyone interested, the most insane tennis match is on right now. They are in the 5th set, 58 to 57. This match will never end.

  170. relo says:

    Is there FTHB credit in the Middle East for the prisoners?


  171. New in NJ says:

    I agree with Nicholas. It would be nearly impossible for the IT guys to get anything else done if they spent their time spying on employees. Another alternative would be to use some kind of artificial intelligence spyware, but in the absence of any flags that’s probably not a good use of sparse resources.

    My company allows “reasonable” personal use of company resources (telecoms/computer equipment, bandwidth, etc).

    I did work for a smallish (200 +/- employee) government contracting company a few years ago and became work friends with the director of IT. I got blocked one time from what I considered to be a relatively benign website, so I got concerned about getting into hot water. I asked him about the specifics of how IT policy was enforced and what punishments were levied. He said that nobody worries too much unless there is a complaint. He then showed me a 1″ thick log of internet activity that represented one day’s “work” of an recently dismissed employee. The employee was fired for wasting basically all day every day surfing and chatting.

  172. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [173] shore

    As of Friday, I am on my own time.

    They expect me to finish what I am working on. Given that they haven’t formally told me yet, that begs the question of what happens if I don’t finish things. Will they have to push back my trip to the conference room?

    Since it is traditional in firms to blame all bad things on the departed, I don’t suppose I much care. I could do a stellar job, yet, as Relo put it, I can expect to get “Bob Sugared.”

    In 2004, an attorney at Citi once joked that now that I was leaving my firm, they could blame everything on me. If it were 2007, maybe they would have.

  173. Justin says:

    #176 make money:

    I wouldn’t go that far. It’ll very likely be a 0-1 win with those two offensively challenged teams. And a 1 goal game is never a gimmie.

  174. relo says:

    Guy I grew up with is head of compliance at a brokerage house. The examples he has cited of what not to include in e-mails generated from company server are pretty unbelievable. But it happens all the time.

  175. 250K says:

    Here is some low-hanging fruit for you all to chew on:

    from CNBC (http://www.cnbc.com/id/37873911)

    Homebuilders including KBHome [KBH 12.41 0.52 (+4.37%) ], Pulte [PHM 9.05 0.19 (+2.14%) ] and D.R. Horton [DHI 10.47 0.25 (+2.45%) ] advanced despite another dismal housing report for the sector as some traders threw in the towel, betting that the sector can only go up from here.


  176. Mr Wantanapolous says:


    Sell the rumor, buy the news. Ring the register. Wait for the next fabricated rally to short.

  177. jj says:

    Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, the world’s largest maker of luxury cars, has sold out of the revamped 5-Series sedan in all markets, forcing customers to wait three to four months for deliveries.

  178. make money says:


    It turns out we have a rematch with Ghana. I kinda wish we had Adu in our lineup on Staturday.

  179. relo says:

    187: Make,

    Stopped out of your BP?

  180. make money says:


    A while ago. First loss is best loss.(6%). Will get back into it when the whole is sealed.

  181. Nicholas says:

    My company definitely records all emails and archives them if they stay on the sever for more then 30 days. It is more of a feature. If I wanted to recall these emails they are there for me to view just as easily as my managers.

    I do not doubt that somewhere my “personal communications” are being recorded in the course of doing buisness for my company. If I were to develop a new product and try and to obtain a patent, the company could use email records to support that I indeed invented the product. They can also resolve “he said/she said” issues and/or data mine for buisness contacts if they feel like it.

    I don’t put that in the same category as actively looking to see what I’m doing on a daily basis. Don’t fool yourself into thinking that you are important. What is important is what people like you are thinking and doing. If I can figure out how you think that will be immeasureably more valuable to me.

  182. relo says:

    190: Should have mentioned that I was considering going in. That is a sure sign to stay away.

  183. relo says:

    Er, 189.

  184. Juice Box says:

    re :#184 – robots and short covering volume was very high and now stocks down in after hours.

  185. tdstyles says:

    From The Onion…

    ENCANTO, CA—Real estate agent Jake Trammel shakes his head as he points out unsold house after unsold house in this San Diego suburb, where homes once went for half a million dollars or more. He pulls up to a Victorian mansion whose windows and door create the look of a leering skull. As the sun breaks through a storm cloud overhead, the illusion disappears, and Trammel admits that he hasn’t had an offer on the haunted residence in 18 months.

    “Two years ago, a four-bedroom with a triple homicide would ignite a bidding war among young couples desperate to get into what they naïvely thought would be their dream home,” Trammel says. “We were handing out 30-year fixed rate [mortgages] with nothing down to anyone who was willing to ignore the spine-tingling whispers emanating from the basement. But since the market crashed, people don’t even want to look inside.”

    Enlarge Image

    Thousands of creepy mansions like these are tied up in Escrow or ancient blood curses.
    “As soon as a prospective buyer hears a voice saying, ‘Get out,’ they want to get out,” he adds. “It’s just a terrifying situation for us.”

    Stories like Trammel’s are common all across the country. With home prices falling at their fastest rate in 20 years, the creepy-mansion market has gone from booming to moribund as realtors head into what should be their most lucrative season, Halloween. Thousands of agents who used to specialize in old homes with a terrible secret in their walls have switched to non-paranormal houses, which, while still difficult to sell, are faring better on average than their green-glowing counterparts.

    “It’s hard enough right now to move a renovated ranch-style house within walking distance of mass transit,” says Cleveland-area agent Maria Reynolds, adding that she has stopped including photos of wraith-infested mansions in her real estate catalogs. “Never mind a place that’s got blood running from the faucets, the apparition of a boy in a sailor suit standing at the top of the stairs, and no granite countertops.”

    As banks and lenders decline financing to people who would once easily qualify, buyers have soured on almost every kind of supernatural home, including transdimensional portal houses, demonic-possession houses, split-levels, and even ramshackle cabins on the edge of town occupied by mysterious hermits who turn out to be kindly old men. Overall sales of cursed and bedamned residences have fallen 45 percent in the past 14 months—more than twice that of non-evil houses. In response, many agents have begun offering incentives, such as waiving half their fee or including the price of an exorcism with the closing costs.

    Perhaps most alarming to realtors is the inability to attract first-time buyers.

    “Even if you do get that young family who’s willing to share the two-car garage with the spectral figure hanging from its rafters, there’s no guarantee they can get a mortgage,” Morgan Stanley analyst Ben Hodges says. “A first-time buyer with no equity can’t even get a severed foot in the door.”

    Though Congress is debating several bills that would offer tax breaks to wealthy urban couples with no children and an overall lack of humility who purchase creepy mansions in the countryside, industry specialists say the outlook remains dire.

    “There’s a place on Mockingbird Lane that I must have sold half a dozen times in two years, it was so hot,” says Alan Foxman, an independent Realtor in Boston. “I’d tell them about the doorway to hell in the master bedroom, and they’d just think, ‘extra storage space.’ A month later they’d call, absolutely horrified, and I’d sell it to someone else at a handsome profit. Everyone walked away happy. These days, though, the scavengers are too scared to go in and strip its copper pipes.”

    Despite it all, Trammel, from San Diego, says there is some evidence things will turn around. He cites a new report from the National Association of Realtors that shows a marked increase in the number of new homes built atop ancients sites of unspeakable evil where the blood of innocents was shed upon an altar of stone.

    “It’s the one bright spot in otherwise gloomy times,” Trammel says. “All hail Tlaloc, the Eater of Souls.”

  186. sas says:

    how much hydrogen sulfide, benzene, and methane is leaking in the gulf?

    yikes! this is getting ugly.


  187. Shore Guy says:


    Good luck. I know a number of folks who have gone small/solo/boutique and made more money, with less time, and greater satisfaction. The world of BigLaw is a xrazy roller coaster at the moment and, as the rapid implosions of a number of large firms has shown, very few are safe anymore. Heck, I have seen partners shown the door.

    The firms that protect the miserable SOBs who are well known to everyone iin a given firm, because of rainmaking ability, shoot themselves in the foot in the long run. These schmucks do more damage than is worth the money they bring in.

    Are you atleast being let go “for economic reasons”? That will sure help if you decide to try and land someplace.

  188. Shore Guy says:


    Good luck. I know a number of folks who have gone small/solo/boutique and made more money, with less time, and greater satisfaction. The world of BigLaw is a xrazy roller coaster at the moment and, as the rapid implosions of a number of large firms has shown, very few are safe anymore. Heck, I have seen partners shown the door.

    The firms that protect the miserable SOBs who are well known to everyone iin a given firm, because of rainmaking ability, shoot themselves in the foot in the long run. These schmucks do more damage than is worth the money they bring in.

    Are you atleast being let go “for economic reasons”? That will sure help if you decide to try and land someplace.

  189. Shore Guy says:


    The Constitution protects people from government. It does not protect people from each other (including corporations, which the Sup Ct tells us are people too).

  190. Shore Guy says:

    “My company definitely records all emails and archives them if they stay on the sever for more then 30 days. It is more of a feature. If I wanted to recall these emails they are there for me to view just as easily as my manage”

    Everyone should be aware that the government can read — without a warrant — any electronic mail left on a server for more than 90 days.

  191. Shore Guy says:

    I was in Albany NY today and the earth shook like mad for 5-10 seconds. You can keep California.

  192. homeboken says:

    This listing screams “PLEASE BAIL US OUT OF OUR 3 MORTGAGES!!!”

    750K for this? Is there an diamond mine in the basement?

  193. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [196] shore

    Economics are clearly involved (my billables are very low and I had been getting signals to that effect). My refusal to “run up the bill” has been a source of friction.

  194. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [200] shore

    You were close to the epicenter. I was on the phone to a client in Connecticut right after it happened and she asked me if we felt anything here. She’s near Hartford and was surprised to hear that the Conn. River Valley gets earthquakes. I remember one when I was at UMass. It was not signficant though.

  195. Essex says:

    186. Completely revamped that puppy. No longer is it the squat behemoth with the slab sides and old man looks. Resembles a mini-seven series now.

  196. Shore Guy says:

    Yea, I have observed those for whom 24 minutes recorded as 30. It is just plain wrong, but I thinl some view it as like going 70 in a 65 zone.

  197. Shore Guy says:


    At first I thought perhaps someone had setoff a bomb under the Empire Plaza.

  198. relo says:

    Coast: Working the Wellmont on Friday night, by chance? I’d imagine whomever is will earn their keep. Newark, Camden and now Montclair – I’m really taking the in the best NJ venues lately.

  199. Shore Guy says:


    Your soon-to-be-ex-firm, are they at 2,400 billable hours for associates, or something else?

  200. relo says:

    There was a discussion on furniture a while back. I recall Raymour getting negative reviews. Any suggestions for couch/living room stuff? Thanks in advance.

  201. jj says:

    You need to bill baby, invoice early and often, budget equals actual, manage your wip, watch your receivables, bill own what you sell, have people billing with your sale. Plop down at one client, use their phone to call another client

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    June 23, 2010 at 5:05 pm
    [196] shore

    Economics are clearly involved (my billables are very low and I had been getting signals to that effect). My refusal to “run up the bill” has been a source of friction.

  202. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [211] relo

    I won’t give Raymour dime # 1

  203. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [210] shore

    Something else. 2,400 or thereabouts to get bonuses, but no real target.

    And no one is getting bonuses these days.

  204. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [207] shore

    I could tell you stories but I don’t want to give the partners any reason to say I violated some policy so no UI for you.

    Making headway in the heading off Bob Sugar department at least.

  205. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [212] JJ

    Thanks. I’ll remember that, especially if I find myself doing work for your firm.

  206. Firestormik says:

    As a person responsible for this I can tell you one thing. It takes me 1 minute to pull up list of sites you visited a year ago. It takes even less time to pull up an email you sent a year ago using the company acccount even though you deleted it right away.

    Haven’t done it for a while though. Ususaly when management wants to fire sombody they whant an extra reason so they start looking for dirt

    “It is too costly to have someone monitor your actions all day long. It is even too costly to have someone program a computer to monitor your actions all day long. Kinda like drug testing…they only test if you do stupid things or talk about your drug habits”

  207. Barbara says:

    202 homebroken

    looks like they shuld have spent on of those HELOCS on some new linens. Seriously, those are from 1986.

  208. jurisprude says:

    [216] Nom:

    What’s your practice area?

  209. Barbara says:

    whats funny is you guys thinking you have any rights at all in the workplace. Before the internets we had hardwired telephones….and personal phone calls were strictly limited and monitored. Nobody complained, just how it was. We called it “sorry, can’t talk now – I’m at W.O.R.K. Catch you later, and by later I mean when my work day has ENDED and I’m no longer getting PAID to do my WORK.

  210. Pat wowed by USA says:

    Nom, you know better than that, re: gubmint only privacy protection.

    If not, you’ve never truly worked in the corporate world.

    It’s a world of rationalization sugared up with hits on reliance on any decision that bears any resemblance to the illegal behavior they are trying to justify.

    It doesn’t matter if the decision was based on a municipality’s action.

    And jj, here’s a trick for billing. And this goes no further than you, kay?

    Bonus a first year to do hours collection (make it really a good bonus) gross up all reported hours ten percent and allocate. Anybody gripes and they can be assigned the one-year six sigma project to determine if a better admin capture is out there.

    It’s best to use somebody everybody already hates to do the hours collection. You’ll see realization go up immediately.

  211. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [219] jurisprude

    Actually, I have a few but for the sake of outing, I will answer that question when my bio gets taken down off the website.

    Should see my google factor drop dramatically.

  212. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [217] firestormik

    Goes even beyond that for lawyers. One attorney (an attorney no less) asked me if I was going to carry out files.

    There are ethical rules on that, and I would not put it past the bastards here to try to get me disbarred if I tried to poach their clients. So I give them no ammo, and no, I have not taken files other than personal ones. What I take out between my ears, however, is mine, and I have most certainly been keeping contact info.

    In the end, that’s all you really need. Besides, there would be something very satisfying about having the client call up my old firm and tell them to send the files to the Law Office of Nom Deplume. That would fry some onions (sorry JJ).

  213. NJCoast says:

    Coast: Working the Wellmont on Friday night, by chance?

    No- I don’t work the Wellmont. Next one for me is Ringo Starr at the State Theatre in New Brunswick.

  214. Wag says:

    Ket (172) – Nice digs! Up for a Sussex County GTG?

  215. Yikes says:

    Justin says:
    June 23, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    The US is in need for a top class striker. Altidore and Gomez aren’t there, yet, and whenever Dempsey pushes up he just doesn’t have the top notch touch. Maybe we can convince Drogba to become an American.

    Altidore is 20. Dempsey has incredible touch, actually – he’s highly thought of at the club level.

    I think the US needs an elite MF to distribute – Bradley is very good, but seems strong on defense – and a rugged interior defender.

    The MF could have been Rossi, but he choose to play for Italy. I believe they had a defender who ended up opting for Serbia or some other European country

  216. Final Doom says:

    sal (131)-

    Your story keeps changing. BTW, I don’t solicit business from people who post here, so I wouldn’t work with you even if I thought you weren’t fugazy.

  217. Final Doom says:

    Sal, why don’t you ask grim to help you? He is a good agent.

    I have yet to see him say he wouldn’t.

    This blog doesn’t pay for itself.

  218. Final Doom says:

    HE (133)-

    Damn you to hell.

  219. borat obama says:


  220. Final Doom says:

    meter (145)-

    Agreed. Uruguay are the real deal. Either Suarez or Forlan can take our back four apart.

  221. Final Doom says:


    This, from a guy who helped cause the biggest clusterfcuk of all time on WS:

    “WTF would anyone want a long term relationship with a realtor.”

    Really, jj…the TBTF play was cute and all, but for virtually all of us, it was a laugh that came with a little vomit into our mouths at the end.

  222. Yikes says:

    FD – Any thoughts on US lineup changes vs. Ghana?

    One good thing about Ghana – 2 goals in 3 WC games. both on PKs. and had “speed” advantage in every game.

    I think Gooch sits again. Gotta have DeMeritt on their stud forward (name escapes me but he scored both of their PKs).

    Unsure of how to play MF – Demsey/Donovan/Bradley, obviously, but who is 4th? Edu? Torres? Benny? I lean Edu at this point.

    Also, please no more Findley starting. Unimpressive in 1.5 games. I’d start Buddle next to Jozy.

    excited for saturday!

  223. Final Doom says:

    yikes (227)-

    I think Bradley’s distribution has been pretty good. Playing in Germany has toughened him up; he’s much more active defensively than he was a year ago. Edu has also played some good balls out of the back.

    Rossi has become an all-out winger/striker. He just doesn’t have the size to thrash in the middle of the pitch.

    Holding MFs who can build from the back are rare in this WC. Other than Xabi Alonso and Veron, every other team is struggling with this position. It also appears that Pirlo is shot & Italy expects nothing from him.

  224. Final Doom says:

    yikes (235)-

    Biggest factor is that Ghana doesn’t have Essien. It’s a miracle they made it out of the group.

    Gomez & Altidore up front, Buddle off the bench for the first one tired or hurt. Edu at the holding MF. Gooch doesn’t see the pitch again for the rest of the tournament. I like him, but he is coming off a bad injury and is obviously not fit.

    Torres isn’t ready to play at this level yet, and I have never been impressed with Benny, as his tackling isn’t up to scratch.

  225. Please tell me it worked right? I dont want to sumit it again if i do not have to! Either the blog glitced out or i am an idiot, the second option doesnt surprise me lol. thanks for a great blog!

  226. Stu says:

    Fannie Mae tries to stop ‘jingle mail’
    Plans penalties for homeowners who walk away from mortgages

    WASHINGTON – Government-sponsored mortgage purchaser Fannie Mae is trying to encourage distressed homeowners to find alternatives to foreclosure by banning those who walk away from getting new loans for seven years.

    Troubled borrowers who do not try in good faith to work out a deal, but have the capacity to pay, are targeted by the policy announced Wednesday.

    “Walking away from a mortgage is bad for borrowers and bad for communities and our approach is meant to deter the disturbing trend toward strategic defaulting,” said Terence Edwards, executive vice president for credit portfolio management.


  227. Pat wowed by USA says:

    This thing is getting more and more Biblical.

    Seven years? Who makes this shit up?

  228. NJGator says:

    Probe: Inmates wrongly get $9M in tax credits
    Nearly 1,300 claimed to have bought a home despite being locked up

    WASHINGTON – Nearly 1,300 prison inmates wrongly received more than $9 million in tax credits for homebuyers despite being locked up when they claimed they bought a home, a government investigator reported Wednesday.

    The investigator said 241 of the inmates were serving life sentences.


  229. Pat wowed by USA says:

    There has to be something to do with firstborn sons coming down the pike.

  230. NJGator says:

    For sale: $75 million handyman’s dream
    90,000 square feet, 23 bathrooms, no tiles or interior walls

    WINDERMERE, Fla. – Listed as a “monument to unparalleled success,” the largest home for sale in the United States comes with plenty of space but no carpet, tiles or interior walls. It’s up to the future buyer to finish it.

    The mansion started by timeshare tycoon David Siegel boasts plenty of big numbers: 90,000 square feet. Twenty-three bathrooms. Thirteen bedrooms. Ten kitchens. A 20-car garage, with additional space for two limos. Three pools. A bowling alley. Indoor roller rink. Two-story movie theater. Video arcade. Fitness center. Baseball field and two tennis courts.

    All that and more for $75 million “as is.” There’s an option to buy it completed for $100 million.


  231. NJGator says:

    Getting older now means more housing distress
    Those 45 and up face more debt and less savings heading into retirement

    NEW YORK – Amma Holmes expected to pay off the mortgage on her Tampa, Florida, home in the next few years. Instead, she lost her job and her two adult sons have moved back in to help pay her bills.

    She isn’t alone.

    For the first time in generations, getting older means carrying more mortgage debt and less savings into retirement, thanks to the housing crash and rising joblessness among those 45 and older.


  232. Barbara says:

    239 Stu
    can’t say I didn’t see it coming but unreal still…the arrogance. Not only are corps people, they are demi gods. They can be regarded as a human and when it all hits the fan, reinvent themselves and rise from the ashes, in a metter of days. We mere mortals will have to wait 7 years. All hail Big Multi Conglomerate!

  233. Barbara says:

    oh, and just another reason not to buy a Jersey crap box: jingle mail was my plan B.
    Best of luck, sellers.

  234. brewcrew says:

    Late to the party, I know, but as an IT guy at work, I found the discussion on privacy while using corporate networked equipment interesting. It should be noted that in those Acceptable Use Policy legalese documents they make you sign on Day 1 usually stipulate that any attempt to get around corporate monitoring (through the use of unsanctioned encrypted VPN tunnels, proxies, etc) is in itself a violation of the Acceptable Use Policy and grounds for termination…so don’t do it. You may think you’re getting one over on those geeks down at IT, but we see you’re up to something…

  235. Shore Guy says:

    Just use a personal BlackBerry folks, it gets around nearly every issue. Unless, of course, one works in a “classified” environment, where possessing a personal telecommunications device, especially one with photo capability, is verboten.

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