Ease doesn’t mean easy, the majority of short sales are a waste of time

From the NY Times:

Banks Ease Stance on Short Sales

STANDING by while her mother was evicted from her home in Tinton Falls for the few thousand dollars she owed in mortgage payments in the 1990s had a big influence on Kim Hale and her career choices. A new nursing school graduate at the time, Ms. Hale said she had had no idea how to help her mother, who was “too embarrassed to reach out to anyone.”

“If I knew then what I know now, she would have fought, and she’d probably still be in that house,” said Ms. Hale, 45, who is now a real estate agent with Exit Realty in West Long Branch, specializing in short sales. She says she focuses on short sales — they are about 70 percent of her work — because she wants to offer distressed homeowners the best possible outcome.

Ms. Hale is one of many brokers who have positioned themselves as short-sale experts. Which makes sense, as nearly 4.3 million American homeowners are delinquent on their mortgage payments, 124,910 of them in New Jersey, according to data released last month from LPS Applied Analytics. An additional 121,258 New Jersey homes are in foreclosure, which makes New Jersey the state with the fourth-highest percentage of delinquent loans.

These days it is even starting to dawn on long-reluctant banks that there is value in short sales, which promise higher returns than foreclosures (not to mention the benefit of keeping a house from abandonment). In fact, in states like New Jersey and New York — where the foreclosure process has halted in the 11 months since a court order forced banks to restructure their mortgage procedures — the short sale has for the time being become practically the only alternative.

As a result, it is now banks themselves that, in growing numbers, are indirectly providing brokers with leads on potential short sales.

“The banks are definitely becoming friendlier to deal with, especially as they realize there’s so much shadow inventory out there that hasn’t even reached the market yet,” said Bill Flagg, a broker with ERA Queen City in Scotch Plains, referring to the very institutions that once made the process difficult. Today, half his office’s business is in short sales or foreclosures, he said.

J. K. Huey, who heads up Wells Fargo Bank’s short-sale and foreclosure division, affirmed the recent thaw between the real estate and banking communities on short sales, noting that “most agree that foreclosure is not the best alternative for anyone.”

Brokers are also becoming more personally proactive, advertising their short-sale expertise or, in the case of Susanne Rhame of the Woodward Realty Group in Middletown, blogging and tweeting about short selling. But when all else fails, eavesdropping can sometimes prove helpful in turning up clients. Ms. Hale described a recent shopping expedition on which she heard another customer talking about a neighbor who had been forced to leave her home.

“I’m not shy,” she said. Upon reaching the homeowner, “I say, ‘Look, could you use $3,000? That’s what they might pay you to not just walk away from your home.’ With a short sale, you can control the way you leave.”

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74 Responses to Ease doesn’t mean easy, the majority of short sales are a waste of time

  1. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  2. Juice Box says:

    Ouch Mary Holder

  3. gary says:

    Mary Holder Agency Inc. has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in part because the downturn in the housing market left it unable to repay a company with which it signed a franchise agreement.

    The filing is another casualty of the distressed housing market. Mary Holder Agency was founded by its namesake in 1992 and grew to seven offices and 160 agents.

    Tick… tick… tick… tick…

  4. Hyenas ripping at the wildebeests. You can put the hyenas in tuxedos and give them napkins, but it is what it is.

  5. RE is dead money for the next 50-100 years. Mary Holder huffed way too much of the laughing gas.

    Prestigious Spring Lake, no less…

    Please direct all questions to Gary.

  6. Bird-dogging short sale leads at the grocery store ain’t my style.

    Much better helping the WS elite pickle their livers. We have more than a few come into the store, and their standard line is still BTFD. Absolutely insane.

    I want to put one of those gold vending machines in the corner and tell them that we will only accept payment for Burgundy and Bordeaux in shiny.

  7. Juice Box says:

    Meat – what happens when one walks in your store and asks for a job? Lots of layoffs lately on the street.

  8. gary says:


    Another friend gets a pink slip this week… one daughter in college, a son in high school living in prestigious Upper Haughtyville in Unicorn County. How do I tell him that he’s gotta maintain his image on $550 a week until he hopefully finds a temp gig at 40% of his last salary with no bennies?

  9. gary says:

    And for those keeping score, calculate approximately $275 per month, per person in your household for catastrophic health coverage. This doesn’t include prescriptions, it’s strictly to guard against a health emergency. Your allowed 90 days max per person if you have to stay in a hospital. Everything else, you pay for. Don’t have the money? Just die then and be done with it.

  10. gary says:

    I want to meet the working couple with two kids who just signed a contract for a $550,000 mortgage after 20% down and $14,000 in property taxes. Imagine the look on their faces after they discover that a monthly budget can double in 24 hours. And I mean literally, in 24 hours. We’re in about the 4th inning folks.

  11. Buh-bye, BAC (Lemon Bros. redux):

    “Following the recent surge in blue light special asset dispositions courtesy of Bank of America’s precarious liquidity conditions, many have speculated that the bank will be forced to sell none other than Schrodinger’s Goose: Merrill Lynch, which is at the same time both dead (pre bailout) and golden (due to some legacy reputation it has as a fabled Wall Street firm, now mostly based on intangible value). Nowhere else is this more evident than in the CDS spread between the two entities.”


  12. juice (8)-

    No positions currently open. And, the applicants we have are ridiculously overqualified.

    My first day on the job, we chased off the idiot layabouts who were obviously slackards. By day three, the people who were actually somewhat ok quit, since they realized they were now going to have to work. A couple even expressed open confidence that they would immediately find better jobs.

    I’d like to see where those losers are now.

  13. All we had to do to get a pool of excellent applicants was run Craigslist ads for three days.

  14. gary (9)-

    Say it best with a gift of grain alcohol.

  15. gary says:

    VINEYARD HAVEN, Massachusetts (Reuters) – A vacationing President Barack Obama accused Congress on Saturday of holding back the economic recovery by blocking “common sense” measures he said would create jobs and help growth.

    Yes… We… Can!

  16. gary says:

    Meat [15],

    Along with a glock nine and a fresh clip.

  17. NJCoast says:

    I was talking with a band member playing with Randy Travis last night. It used to be when recording in Nashville, the studios would put out lavish gourmet spreads for the artists, now they tell them to take an hour and get their own meals.
    Tough times everywhere.

  18. schabadoo says:

    A vacationing President Barack Obama


  19. 3b says:

    #6 SL is full of for sale signs, will be heading down there tomorrow for a few days vacation. There are blocks where every other house is for sale. As I say, no area is immune, it may take longer in some areas vs. others, but no area is immune.

    I once had a realtor tell me that never again would you see houses in Brig-on Hack sell for under 500k. Well today there are plenty to choose from well under 500k, and lots in the 300k’s too. Heck there are even some under 300k; with of course 12k to 14k a year in property taxes.

  20. gary says:


    None of the other Presidents have caused nearly as much damage and destruction as the Annointed One. It’s the timing of the vacation. Good try, though.

  21. BC Bob says:

    Gary [23],

    Rumor is O will be away longer than anticipated. I heard that he went on a fishing trip this morning. Currently, the boat is lost at sea, off the coast of MV. It was determined that the boat was defective; it was rudderless. Not sure if this is just a rumor?

  22. Juice Box says:

    Re:22 3b the housenext to my rental in SL has been for sale over a yearand no offers, I see WHY Mary Holder is going under when there are loads of open houses down in SL and nobody even shows up all summer.

  23. schabadoo says:

    Of course Gary, of course. That 9/11 warning came during one of the many month long vacations, but whatever.

  24. Barbara says:

    10. gary

    Been bitching about that raw deal for ten years, no one cared. I hope everyone loses their bennies, not because I’m mean but because its the only way single payer sanity will come to America. Connecting employment and putting your employer in control of your kid’s juvenile diabetes or organ transplant makes about as much sense as having my son’s local elementary school in charge of my car’s oil changes and tire service.

  25. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Strange (and rare) is the day I am more likely to agree with Schabadoo than gary, but this is the proverbial tempest in a teapot.

  26. gary says:

    A failure… plain and simple. He’s lost, rudderless, clueless, arrogant, blind, incompetent, insufficient, unfitted, feckless, aimless and hopeless…. an unmitigated disaster.

  27. yo'me says:

    They should have let the banks go down in 2008 and level the playing field.The rich and investors would have been wiped out and who is used to starving will survive

  28. babs (27)-

    Yeah, but all that is a great way to subjugate most of Amerika to the man, while systematically destroying the working middle class (which is the ultimate goal of Rethugs and Dumbos alike).

  29. I think O and the family should be working on a plantation instead of laying about.

  30. Somebody had to go there; might as well be me.

  31. Allow big banks to fail? Dimon and his spawn of beelzebub will just pick the bones of those who do themselves in…until there is only one bank left in Amerika, JPM.


  32. Jamie probably needs a few hundred billion or so to cover his shiny shorts and tide him through the coming failure-to-deliver event.

    Guess who he’s eyeing up?

  33. NJGator says:

    Greetings Chifi from the Beer Garden of the Memphis Taproom.

  34. gator (37)-

    Have a Fin du Monde for me.

  35. schabadoo says:

    Looks like Gaddafi’s gone.

  36. Should find that Lockerbie bomber guy and hang him on TV.

  37. yo'me says:

    For half a century, the global energy supply’s center of gravity has been the Middle East. This fact has had self-evidently enormous implications for the world we live in — and it’s about to change.

    By the 2020s, the capital of energy will likely have shifted back to the Western Hemisphere, where it was prior to the ascendancy of Middle Eastern megasuppliers such as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait in the 1960s. The reasons for this shift are partly technological and partly political. Geologists have long known that the Americas are home to plentiful hydrocarbons trapped in hard-to-reach offshore deposits, on-land shale rock, oil sands, and heavy oil formations. The U.S. endowment of unconventional oil is more than 2 trillion barrels, with another 2.4 trillion in Canada and 2 trillion-plus in South America — compared with conventional Middle Eastern and North African oil resources of 1.2 trillion. The problem was always how to unlock them economically.

    But since the early 2000s, the energy industry has largely solved that problem. With the help of horizontal drilling and other innovations, shale gas production in the United States has skyrocketed from virtually nothing to 15 to 20 percent of the U.S. natural gas supply in less than a decade. By 2040, it could account for more than half of it. This tremendous change in volume has turned the conversation in the U.S. natural gas industry on its head; where Americans once fretted about meeting the country’s natural gas needs, they now worry about finding potential buyers for the country’s surplus.
    Meanwhile, onshore oil production in the United States, condemned to predictions of inexorable decline by analysts for two decades, is about to stage an unexpected comeback. Oil production from shale rock, a technically complex process of squeezing hydrocarbons from sedimentary deposits, is just beginning. But analysts are predicting production of as much as 1.5 million barrels a day in the next few years from resources beneath the Great Plains and Texas alone — the equivalent of 8 percent of current U.S. oil consumption. The development raises the question of what else the U.S. energy industry might accomplish if prices remain high and technology continues to advance. Rising recovery rates from old wells, for example, could also stem previous declines. On top of all this, analysts expect an additional 1 to 2 million barrels a day from the Gulf of Mexico now that drilling is resuming. Peak oil? Not anytime soon.


  38. yo'me says:

    The federal government could agree to provide for 50% of a new employee’s salary if an employer adds a job and gives it to someone who’s been out of work six months or more. With more than 6 million people who’ve been unemployed that long, businesses would have a large hiring pool.

    This would be costly, of course. If every one of the qualified employees was hired and received the average private sector wage ($28.10 per hour), working a 40-hour week for 50 weeks a year, the price tag would be $175 billion a year. But to put the numbers in context, the stimulus bill cost $787 billion.

    Where would we get the $175 billion? The Federal Reserve could provide the funds, with no serious risk of inflation and without any increase in the debt ceiling. In 2009, private banks sold the Fed large numbers of mortgage-backed securities that had been clogging up their balance sheets. Since then, the Fed has been selling those securities, often at a profit. In similar fashion, the companies that hire people under this program would sell the Fed corporate bonds or restricted stock, as the company prefers. The bonds could be created so as not to be payable, and the stock not convertible into common stock, until the company has increased its profits substantially and could easily repay the sums.


  39. yo'me says:

    Cutting work hours by job sharing is another way to lower unemployment like they did in Germany

  40. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (40) shad,

    Interesting. Must check.

    I expect the acolytes to proclaim it Obama’s doing. That will be fun to see spun.

  41. freedy (47)-

    Of course, we won’t default. Instead, we’ll declare the debt odious and begin dropping daisy cutters on Canton and Beijing.

    We’d all be better off if we just defaulted already. That’s why TPTB won’t do it.

  42. This is the big grab for more power and the consolidation of it in the hands of very few, folks.

    Both parties are in on it, which renders political conversation irrelevant.

  43. Kettle1^2 says:

    Yome 43

    the author might want to compare the average EROEI for those various sources as well as average rates of recovery.

    1 barrel of unconventinal oil is not equivilant to 1 barrel of light sweet crude

  44. yo'me says:

    You think he is right on saying the tides are turning towards the Americas?

  45. Kettle1^2 says:


    I think it will become more decetralized. Unconventional oil is a dirty messy business. Will we be willing to r@pe our own lands to supply the world market. Look into what hydrofracking does to local ground water supplies for a taste.

    Oil Shale often isn’t oil but kerogen, an oil precursor that must be treated at high temperates and for nontrivialtime spans to convert it to oil.

    That author has no concept of what peak oil is if that article is what they think.

    Peak oil is essentially the condition of the rate of consumption exceeding the rate of discovery of recoverable reserves.

  46. cobbler says:

    kettle [52]
    Peak oil is essentially the condition of the rate of consumption exceeding the rate of discovery of recoverable reserves.

    Sorry, but this is not correct – actually, the rate of consumption exceeds the rate of discovery for quite a while already. The peak oil is “…the point in time when the maximum rate of global petroleum extraction is reached, after which the rate of production enters terminal decline…”. Wikipedia article is a good Sunday reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil .

    For every type of hydrocarbon resource there is a crude price point where the recovery of this resource becomes commercially viable. If the crude stays above $80-90/bbl for a few years we’ll see all sorts of unconventional sources coming on-stream, at above $110/bbl coal-to-liquids becomes viable (as well as bio-hydrocarbon technologies based on sugar cane, obviously not on corn). Disaster is created by the shocks in the system, not gradual changes.

  47. cobbler says:

    Is capitalism doomed?
    The recent credit rating downgrade and Eurozone debt crises are slowly showing signs of The Great Depression 2.0.
    Nouriel Roubini

    The massive volatility and sharp equity-price correction now hitting global financial markets signal that most advanced economies are on the brink of a double-dip recession. A financial and economic crisis caused by too much private-sector debt and leverage led to a massive re-leveraging of the public sector in order to prevent Great Depression 2.0. But the subsequent recovery has been anaemic and sub-par in most advanced economies given painful deleveraging.

    Now a combination of high oil and commodity prices, turmoil in the Middle East, Japan’s earthquake and tsunami, eurozone debt crises, and America’s fiscal problems (and now its rating downgrade) have led to a massive increase in risk aversion. Economically, the United States, the eurozone, the United Kingdom, and Japan are all idling. Even fast-growing emerging markets (China, emerging Asia, and Latin America), and export-oriented economies that rely on these markets (Germany and resource-rich Australia), are experiencing sharp slowdowns.

    Until last year, policymakers could always produce a new rabbit from their hat to reflate asset prices and trigger economic recovery. Fiscal stimulus, near-zero interest rates, two rounds of “quantitative easing”, ring-fencing of bad debt, and trillions of dollars in bailouts and liquidity provision for banks and financial institutions: officials tried them all. Now they have run out of rabbits.

    Fiscal policy currently is a drag on economic growth in both the eurozone and the UK. Even in the US, state and local governments, and now the federal government, are cutting expenditure and reducing transfer payments. Soon enough, they will be raising taxes.

    Another round of bank bailouts is politically unacceptable and economically unfeasible: most governments, especially in Europe, are so distressed that bailouts are unaffordable; indeed, their sovereign risk is actually fuelling concern about the health of Europe’s banks, which hold most of the increasingly shaky government paper.

    Nor could monetary policy help very much. Quantitative easing is constrained by above-target inflation in the eurozone and UK. The US Federal Reserve will likely start a third round of quantitative easing (QE3), but it will be too little too late. Last year’s $600bn QE2 and $1tn in tax cuts and transfers delivered growth of barely three per cent for one quarter. Then growth slumped to below one per cent in the first half of 2011. QE3 will be much smaller, and will do much less to reflate asset prices and restore growth.

    Currency depreciation is not a feasible option for all advanced economies: they all need a weaker currency and better trade balance to restore growth, but they all cannot have it at the same time. So relying on exchange rates to influence trade balances is a zero-sum game. Currency wars are thus on the horizon, with Japan and Switzerland engaging in early battles to weaken their exchange rates. Others will soon follow.

    Meanwhile, in the eurozone, Italy and Spain are now at risk of losing market access, with financial pressures now mounting on France, too. But Italy and Spain are both too big to fail and too big to be bailed out. For now, the European Central Bank will purchase some of their bonds as a bridge to the eurozone’s new European Financial Stabilisation Facility. But, if Italy and Spain lose market access, the EFSF’s €440 bn ($627bn) war chest could be depleted by the end of this year or early 2012.

    Then, unless the EFSF pot were tripled – a move that Germany would resist – the only option left would become an orderly but coercive restructuring of Italian and Spanish debt, as has happened in Greece. Coercive restructuring of insolvent banks’ unsecured debt would be next. So, although the process of deleveraging has barely started, debt reductions will become necessary if countries cannot grow or save or inflate themselves out of their debt problems.

    So Karl Marx, it seems, was partly right in arguing that globalisation, financial intermediation run amok, and redistribution of income and wealth from labour to capital could lead capitalism to self-destruct (though his view that socialism would be better has proven wrong). Firms are cutting jobs because there is not enough final demand. But cutting jobs reduces labour income, increases inequality and reduces final demand.

    Recent popular demonstrations, from the Middle East to Israel to the UK, and rising popular anger in China – and soon enough in other advanced economies and emerging markets – are all driven by the same issues and tensions: growing inequality, poverty, unemployment, and hopelessness. Even the world’s middle classes are feeling the squeeze of falling incomes and opportunities.

    To enable market-oriented economies to operate as they should and can, we need to return to the right balance between markets and provision of public goods. That means moving away from both the Anglo-Saxon model of laissez-faire and voodoo economics and the continental European model of deficit-driven welfare states. Both are broken.

    The right balance today requires creating jobs partly through additional fiscal stimulus aimed at productive infrastructure investment. It also requires more progressive taxation; more short-term fiscal stimulus with medium- and long-term fiscal discipline; lender-of-last-resort support by monetary authorities to prevent ruinous runs on banks; reduction of the debt burden for insolvent households and other distressed economic agents; and stricter supervision and regulation of a financial system run amok; breaking up too-big-to-fail banks and oligopolistic trusts.

    Over time, advanced economies will need to invest in human capital, skills and social safety nets to increase productivity and enable workers to compete, be flexible and thrive in a globalised economy. The alternative is – like in the 1930s – unending stagnation, depression, currency and trade wars, capital controls, financial crisis, sovereign insolvencies, and massive social and political instability.


  48. NJGator says:

    Meat – We also stopped here… http://kraftworkbar.com/

  49. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Here’s commentary on some more data that is “unexpected.”


    Quel surprise.

  50. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [57] redux

    Though in hindsight, that picture is not complete. Given the economy, one would expect that the 2008 and 2009 tax returns would be down. After, all, they measure income earned in 2007 and 2008. I don’t subscribe to the WSJ so I don’t know if the data was for returns filed in 2009 or for income earned in 2009 as shown on 2010 returns.

    If I knew had 2010 tax data included, I would have more confidence in the data.

  51. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    I hate it when I’m right. . . .


    I don’t know where I said it (here or elsewhere), but I predicted a spike in disability claims when it became apparent that the 2008 crash wasn’t a flash crash. I asked my BIL, an orthopedic surgeon, if he saw evidence of this, and he said “hell yeah. I get requests every day now.”

  52. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    This is pretty funny. Have not seen it here before. Surprised gary or Meat aren’t all over this.

    “The Ant and the Grasshopper

    The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

    The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

    Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving.

    CBS, NBC, PBS, CNN, and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food. America is stunned by the sharp contrast.

    How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

    Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper and everybody cries when they sing, ‘It’s Not Easy Being Green.’

    ACORN stages a demonstration in front of the ant’s house where the news stations film the group singing, ‘We shall overcome.’ Rev. Jeremiah Wright then has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper’s sake.

    Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid exclaim in an interview with Larry King that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

    Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the GovernmentGreenCzar.

    The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant’s food while the government house he is in (which just happens to be the ant’s old house), crumbles around him because he doesn’t maintain it.

    The ant has disappeared in the snow.

    The grasshopper is later found dead in a drug-related incident and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the once peaceful neighborhood.”

  53. cobbler says:

    Looks like Ghaddafi kaput – Presidential Guard surrenders to the rebels…
    Good paired trade for tomorrow as long as one can do the global futures: long WTI, short Brent, for December will do great.

  54. cobbler says:

    Gold imports by India, the world’s biggest consumer, may reach a record this year as investors seek a haven against inflation and volatility in stock markets, a traders’ group said.
    Imports may be between 950 metric tons and 1,000 tons this year, Prithviraj Kothari, president of the Bombay Bullion Association, told reporters at a gold conference in Kovalam in south India. Consumption in India rose to a record 963.1 tons last year, driving bullion imports to the highest ever at 958 tons, according to the World Gold Council.
    Rising Indian imports may help extend a 30 percent rally in gold prices to a record that’s made the precious metal the second-best performer on the Thomson Reuters/Jefferies CRB Index of 19 raw materials this year. Bullion is heading for its 11th annual gain as Europe’s sovereign-debt crisis and concern that the U.S. economy may be slowing spur demand for a haven.
    “The equity market is volatile and property prices are too high, driving people toward gold as an investment,” Kothari said. “The rains have been good so far, so we can expect good demand for festival season this year.”
    Purchases by India, the world’s biggest user, surged 60 percent to 267 tons in the three months ended June 30, from 167 tons a year earlier, the producer-funded council said on Aug. 18. Investment demand jumped 78 percent to 108.5 tons, the second-highest quarter on record, it said.


    Importantly, once gold gets into India it never comes back to the world market. Actually, may be a bigger driver for the price than TV ads stateside – also explains why platinum stays behind Au and Ag in the race (Indians have no use for it); seems to be pushed up by the shiny for the last few days when the prices evened out.

  55. Sai says:

    I’m looking for that super duper inspector that everyone was mentioning about on this blog. Need his info please :)

  56. Libtard at home says:
  57. cobbler says:

    My fantasy trade from [61] seems to be quite profitable… time to take some fantasy profits and retire to a fantasy island.

    Oil Slides in London as Libyan Rebels Enter Tripoli, New York Crude Rises
    By Ben Sharples – Aug 21, 2011 9:38 PM ET

  58. Jake says:

    It always shocks me that so many people have go through a short sale and think that it will work out. Short sales seldomly go well, but if you have patience and can take rejection, you can really find some great deals.

  59. Luigi Fulk says:

    Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It’s very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.

  60. Anon E. Moose says:

    Barb [27];

    single payer sanity

    Oxymororn of the century. The only way to balance cost and quality to the level of the user’s preference is to let the user select the cost and quality. Single payer removes both from their control.

  61. Anon E. Moose says:

    Con’t [68];

    Hard to beleive that I back up Meat [32]. Strange bedfellows on teh blog today (eg, Nom, [29]).

  62. Anon E. Moose says:

    Con’t [69];

    Still more right thoughts… Meat [41].

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