Foreclosures? Not in NYC.

From HousingWire:

NYC foreclosures drop 32%

New York City foreclosure filings dropped 32% in the third quarter over last year.

Lenders filed 3,168 foreclosures on single-family and multifamily properties during the quarter, according to a study from New York University Furman Center for Real Estate and Urban Policy. The notices, the first stage in the foreclosure process, also dropped 5.4% from the previous three months and were down more than 46% from the peak in 2009.

Roughly 73% of all filings occurred in either Brooklyn or Queens. Over the last two quarters, notices have been more evenly split between homeowners and landlords.

“Given persistent unemployment and delinquency rates nationally, it remains unclear whether the past four quarters of reductions in foreclosure notices is the result of the slow pace of foreclosure proceedings, or a promising sign that more homeowners are now able to meet their mortgage obligations,” said Vicki Been, faculty director of the Furman Center.

Court rule changes and a massive backlog pushed the average completion time to beyond 900 days, the longest in the nation, according to RealtyTrac, which monitors filings across the country.

Meanwhile, the 5,615 property sales in third quarter dropped 3.6% from last year. Home values declined in every borough but Manhattan.

“Sales volume continued to lag in the third quarter of 2011, showing little change since last quarter and remaining well below the sales volumes we’ve seen in the city in the past decade,” said Ingrid Gould Ellen, faculty co-director of the Furman Center.

In New York City, values are down more than 20% from the peak, which crested sporadically across all major boroughs just before the financial crisis struck in 2007.

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151 Responses to Foreclosures? Not in NYC.

  1. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  2. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Home Prices in 20 U.S. Cities Probably Fell at a Slower Rate

    Home prices in 20 U.S. cities probably fell at a slower pace and consumer confidence rose from a two-year low, showing the economy is stabilizing, economists said before reports today.

    The S&P/Case-Shiller index of property values in 20 cities dropped 3 percent in September from the same month in 2010 after decreasing 3.8 percent in the year ended August, according to the median forecast of 32 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News. The Conference Board’s confidence gauge climbed to 44 this month from 39.8 in October, separate figures may show.

    Unemployment at 9 percent, tight lending standards and a looming supply of distressed properties that may drag down home prices further will probably keep hurting demand into next year. A pickup in employment is needed to boost consumers’ outlooks and lift purchases of big-ticket items.

    “Housing demand is still quite weak, things are just not getting worse at the moment,” said Yelena Shulyatyeva, a U.S. economist at BNP Paribas in New York. “The economy is just muddling along.”

    The S&P/Case-Shiller index, based on a three-month average, is due at 9 a.m. New York time. Survey estimates ranged from declines of 2.7 percent to 3.9 percent.

  3. Neanderthal Economist says:

    Can I buy a blue ribbon 4/2 for a dollar yet?

  4. veets (3)-

    Try Cleveland.

  5. Look at this moron Bawney Frank. Listen to the gobbeldygook that oozes from his piehole, and you should have no wonder as to why we’re on the road to perdition.

  6. The failure of liberalism, presented and defended as success.

  7. borat obama says:


  8. borat obama says:

    Hi fivee

  9. freedy says:

    How jon stays on the street is amazing. Normal people would be in a jail cell awaiting a bail hearing . Not in this case . Friend of Bojangles

  10. JJ says:

    American Airlines just went BK. Damm Pilots would not adjust salaries and instead put whole company into bk.

  11. yo says:

    Did Henry Paulson committed insider trading by disclosing conservatorship of fannie and Freddie to hedge fund Managers before it all happened?

  12. grim says:

    Isn’t American IT dead? Coding? I guess as part of a general CS primer, but I worry that it would be as useful as Phil 101. Maybe the Latin analogy is spot on, spend 4 years studying and the last time you’ll ever use it is finals.

    There is a place for the coder in America, but you’ve got to be a hyper productive superstar with enough self motivation and creativity to plot your own path. Chances are this person is more qualified to teach the course than his/her teacher.

    Courses in practical applied CS would be significantly more useful than teaching kids Java, basic, or assembler. A course that includes an overview of modern database theory, basic networking, IT project management, and some IT application proficiency would be significantly more useful I think.

  13. Shore Guy says:

    The irony is that he will probably suggest that governments in the Middle East and the Maghreb take actions right out of the Republican play book with respect to taxation and regulation:

  14. Shore Guy says:


    What is it you say about yields?

    Italy Pays Record Yields at Bond Auction

    Italy again had to pay investors lofty yields averaging above 7% at its government bond auctions Tuesday, as the euro zone’s third-largest economy continues to borrow at costs that forced Greece, Portugal and Ireland to seek external bailouts.

    The auction of up to €8 billion in bonds over a range of maturities saw Italy paying a yield of 7.89% on three-year bonds and 7.56% on 10-year paper. Both marked new euro-era highs.

  15. gary says:

    A course that includes an overview of modern database theory, basic networking, IT project management, and some IT application proficiency would be significantly more useful I think.

    I believe it’s the reason why I have a job right now. :)

  16. The Original NJ Expat says:

    #14 grim …A course that includes an overview of modern database theory, basic networking, IT project management, and some IT application proficiency…

    Agreed. It’s amazing how many smart development guys don’t get the big picture.

  17. JJ says:

    It is was not for IT which I think stands for Indian Technology we would have 33% unemployment among Indian Men in New Jersey. There are not enough jobs for Doctors and Call Centers to replace the IT jobs.

  18. grim says:

    Barney going on the GS payroll for all his good work?

  19. yo says:

    C/S HPI -0.6%

  20. grim says:

    NY Metro area posts a year over year gain in prices.

  21. freedy says:

    If barney goes to work for GS or a lobby guy for them ,,,,, then thats the true sign ,its over . our country has gone down hill so fast

  22. grim says:

    This makes the 6th straight month of non-adjusted year-over-year increases in NY metro area pricing (per Case Shiller).

  23. chicagofinance says:

    The bottom is in…..only blue sky beyond….

    grim says:
    November 29, 2011 at 9:24 am
    This makes the 6th straight month of non-adjusted year-over-year increases in NY metro area pricing (per Case Shiller).

  24. JJ says:

    Grim you clearly have a case of Stockholm Syndrome

    grim says:
    November 29, 2011 at 9:24 am
    This makes the 6th straight month of non-adjusted year-over-year increases in NY metro area pricing (per Case Shiller).

  25. grim says:

    Scratch that, I’m wrong, grabbed the mom numbers instead.

  26. Libtard in Union says:

    Barney has been on the GS payroll probably long before he was even elected to Congress.

  27. chicagofinance says:

    OH NO!

    Texans eye Favre in QB search

    Matt Leinart’s return to the NFL lasted less than a half, and coach Gary Kubiak said the Texans will sign another quarterback this week, with — Surprise! — Brett Favre possibly in the mix.

  28. JJ says:

    Chifi, your Lehman bonds are looking good in bk good payout now. Wonder how AMR will do, interesting bk. Have a few billion cash in hand and no debtor financing needed. They clearly are going to survive. Wonder how much stock in new company bond holders will get. They clearly had way to generous benefits, salaries, medical and retiree plans. An guy in my neighborhood with a HS equivalincy degree did the full 40 there and gets 3k a month pension and medical. 40 years sounds like a lot, but it is not. He stated there at 18 and left at 58. Way before any of us could retire. He retired in 1997. How can they afford to pay 36,000 a year pension to hundreds of thousands of people who no longer work for AMR who were basically clerks with a 10 grade education, pay 150K pensions to pilots and 500K pensions to senior management while paying 10% on their bonds. Crazy. Sad part is you can’t take money back. The old pilots and old retirees bled company dry and now even if you reduce their benefits a little big deal. My friends dad for instances was a pilot who retired in 1992, he has already got over three million in pension checks.

    chicagofinance says:
    November 29, 2011 at 9:27 am
    The bottom is in…..only blue sky beyond….

    grim says:
    November 29, 2011 at 9:24 am
    This makes the 6th straight month of non-adjusted year-over-year increases in NY metro area pricing (per Case Shiller).

  29. WickedOrange says:

    data scientist is the hot job right now.

  30. Anon E. Moose says:

    JJ [30];

    Sad part is you can’t take money back. The old pilots and old retirees bled company dry and now even if you reduce their benefits a little big deal. My friends dad for instances was a pilot who retired in 1992, he has already got over three million in pension checks.

    Just another stick on the pyre in the case for generational warfare — the old are eating their young.

  31. Libtard in Union says:

    Bankruptcies and airlines…partners in perpetuity.

    Continental built it’s empire due to Chapter 11. It was such a success that a bankrupt United (run like a giant turd) bought them out. Why don’t we just nationalize our airlines? Probably because the government would screw that up too. I think Clot is right!

  32. Juice Box says:

    re # 14 – Grim American IT is still growing faster than inflation and accounts for about 580 Billion in US spending. Sure the hard core heads down US programmers are a dying breed but that still does not mean businesses don’t need them. There are approximately 9 million Java developers worldwide, which means there are more Doctors worldwide than Java programmers, it is still a growing field.

  33. Juice Box says:

    re: #32 – It’s not new to use data to find insights in business. Data Scientist is another newer job title soon to be obsolete if the Kaggle IPO has anything to say about it.

    Want to make a quick $3 million?

  34. gary says:

    freedy [37],

    Interesting. New Jersey’s debt per capita is growing faster than every other state while salaries are on a 10 year flat line. But thank goodness we’re insulated. :o

  35. freedy says:

    Gary; does this mean many are living on the credit cards? availabilty to meet needs etc?

  36. Libtard in Union says:

    Freedy/Gary: I only wonder what the chart would look like if you accounted for state pension debt?

  37. freedy says:

    Oh the pensions,they will handle themselves

  38. 30 year realtor says:

    Moose/Gary – with regard to comments in yesterday’s thread:

    How is it that real estate agents can convince people to do stupid things with their money? When the subject turns to mortgage brokers or bankers, they are unable to take advantage of these very same people. Suddenly these foolish buyers become wise borrowers. Any action these borrowers (same stupid buyers manipulated by real estate agents) have taken is wise and fully informed. Can anyone explain to me how the same people can be so wise about mortgages and so stupid about real estate?

  39. Anon E. Moose says:

    30-yr [43];

    Who ever said that mortgage brokers were any better people than realtors? From my POV the only difference between mortgage brokers and used house sales flacks is that the former lack the sparkling personality skills of the latter. They’re both vastly overpaid for slinging slop with a smile. I attribute it to the simple dollar amounts on the table when they insert themselves into the room. Kind of like the slot attendant who pays you a big win – you’re supposed to tip them why? Do you tip the quikie mart cashier too?

    But at least one difference between the sales shill and the loan broker is that when it comes to the mortgage loan, the terms are all there in black and white for the buyer to read for themselves. OTOH, the used house sales guild keeps the requisite data under tight guarded control, and dispenses it only sparingly to suit their interests.

  40. gary says:

    30 year [43],

    It’s because realtors are slick. When you’re staring at the fire crackling in the fire place, the realtor is describing how wonderful Christmas will be in your “home” as you “entertain” your guests. Or how about the granite counters and stainless appliances; think of how happy you and your family will be to be building memories in this sought-after home in this most desirable neighborhood.

    They’re telling you the what you want to hear as you stare at the newly finished wood floors throughout while you picture the colors in the dining room that you’ll apply after the chair rail and crown molding is installed.

    They’re feeding you a fat spoon of their best blow knowing that you’ll do whatever it takes to get the money to purchase the eight ball. Then the truth becomes apparent: the blow is cut 60% with inositol with no chance of a refund.

  41. Libtard in Union says:

    In New York, you tip the mortgage broker too.

  42. JCer says:

    Tech is king and those billion Indian “IT Experts” are not very good, a good tech person is worth their weight in gold. Given the explosion of smartphones and this app craze where apps are really replacing web sites as the portal of the future people who can really build these applications and the data backbone to feed them are in high demand. The hardcore programmer is a dying breed in America because there really isn’t a payday, still the best programmers I have ever met are usually American, fat, bearded, balding, and kind of lazy. I’ve known some really talented Indian and Chinese programmers but for every 1 good there are 5-10 who could barely be described as competent.

    Oh and Java is a joke, and this is coming from someone who uses it for a living, modern day Cobol, but actually a pretty decent language comparatively but it is a super easy, you could teach a 10yr old. The sad thing is that most people in IT and Java developers have no ideal how anything works and are over reliant on off the shelf packages which they think are magic because these talentless hacks can’t build anything of value.

  43. Shore Guy says:

    In NJ one “tips” the building inspector as well.

  44. Shore Guy says:

    Shades of 1979:

    (Reuters) – Iranian protesters stormed two British Embassy compounds in Tehran Tuesday, smashing windows, hurling petrol bombs and burning the British flag in a protest against sanctions imposed by Britain, live Iranian television showed.

    Iran’s semi-official Mehr news agency said protesters took six British diplomatic staff hostage from an embassy compound in the north of the city but it withdrew the story from its website minutes later without giving any explanation.


  45. Shore Guy says:

    With Iran causing trouble, and Pakistan spinning like a defective gyro, one wonders if policy makers wish we still had W79s available.

  46. Shore Guy says:

    One wonders if some will “turn up” in Eilabun.

  47. gary says:

    WASHINGTON (AP) — U.S. home prices are falling again in most major cities after posting small gains over the summer and spring. The report suggests the troubled housing market remains weak and won’t recover any time soon.

    The Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller index released Tuesday showed prices dropped in September from August in 17 of the 20 cities tracked. That was the first decline after five straight months in which at least half the cities in the survey showed monthly gains.

    F*cking tick… tick… tick… tick…

  48. Shore Guy says:

    “the troubled housing market remains weak and won’t recover any time soon. ”

    Does gangrene usually heal itself through positive thinking and self delusion?

  49. JJ says:

    Shore Guy I have to disagree. I was at the Jets Game Sunday and with one minute to go somehow GangGreen did somehow heal itself to win the game.

    Shore Guy says:
    November 29, 2011 at 11:10 am
    “the troubled housing market remains weak and won’t recover any time soon. ”

    Does gangrene usually heal itself through positive thinking and self delusion?

  50. Shore Guy says:

    From the WSJ, an interesting point regarding Barny Frank’s retirement:

    “With Mr. Frank’s retirement, the most senior Democrat on the Financial Services Committee is Rep. Maxine Waters (D., Calif.), a critic of Wall Street who is the subject of an ethics investigation”

  51. Libtard in Union says:

    Are there any senators or congressmen who are not subject to an ethics investigation?

  52. Anon E. Moose says:

    Gary [52];

    That was the first decline after five straight months in which at least half the cities in the survey showed monthly gains.

    You mean that seasonal pattern that persisted even throughout the steepest declines of the bust? In other news, Spring follows winter.

  53. Shore Guy says:

    Egads! May we all end up feeling better about ourselves than this guy:

  54. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [55] Shore,

    Good stuff. You couldn’t ask for a better result.

    As for Barney, here is the text of a Boston Globe story on his retirement, which makes clear he quit because his district got reconfigured. Interestingly, the Boston Globe took the story link down. But it was reprinted here:

    With Olver out and the prospect that the district could go GOP (MSNBC is trying hard to throw cold water on that idea, which suggests that it is possible), it is going to reenergize the Mass. GOP, which was gearing up to defend Brown. It also handicaps the Dems who have to divert resources that they wanted for Warren to defend the seat.

    Ordinarily races in Mass. aren’t as ugly as they are in much of the nation. I think that this year is shaping up to be downright ugly on a NY/NJ scale.

  55. Shado of Publius says:


    Only those who paid off the investigators?

  56. grim says:

    S&P Case Shiller, as a repeat sales metric, does not display the same kind of seasonality that aggregate statistical measures do (average, median). It is there, but it’s minor in comparison, likely muted by the methodology. The game is more easily played with the NJAR and Realtor numbers.

  57. Confused in NJ says:

    Consumer borrowing fell slightly in the third quarter as Americans continued to shed their debt burdens in the face of a struggling economy.

    Household debt totaled $11.66 trillion in the three months ending in September, down $60 billion from the previous quarter, according to a report released Monday by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

    “The decline in outstanding consumer debt reveals that households continue to try and deleverage in the wake of a challenging economic environment and large declines in home values,” said Andrew Haughwout, vice president in the Research and Statistics Group at the New York Fed, in a statement.

    But while overall debt is declining, the number of people who are failing to keep up with their payments rose in the third quarter. The delinquency rate stood at 10% in the end of September, up from 9.8% in June. About $1.2 trillion of consumer debt is currently delinquent, according to the report.

    Credit cards: Credit card debt fell slightly to $693 billion, a marginal change from last quarter. And the number of open credit accounts fell by 6 million, 23% down from its peak in 2008.

    That could mean banks are closing down delinquent accounts, according to Bill Hampel, chief economist at Credit Union National Association.

    “I suspect that accounts closed are mostly the behavior of lenders as opposed to the borrowers, because they could not collect anymore,” said Hampel.

    At the same time, the number of credit inquiries increased, reflecting a strong demand for credit.

    Real estate: Mortgage borrowing fell by $114 billion, 9.6 % below its peak, as people continued to shun home buying in favor of renting.

    The number of people signing up for new mortgages fell 17%, the lowest level since mid-2000.

    Meanwhile, existing homeowners are borrowing more. Home equity lines of credit increased by $14 billion during the quarter.

    Student loans: Student debt rose to $865 billion, up from $845 billion from the previous quarter.

    Between 2010 and 2011, undergraduate students, received an average of $4,907 in federal loans according to a College Board survey. Graduate students, the Board said, received $16,423 on average.

    “About a third of students graduating this year have so much debt that they still could be repaying it when their children enter college,” said Mark Kantrowitz, publisher of

    The uptick in college borrowing is typical in a down economy, said Lauren Asher president of the Institute for College Access and Success. People tend to seek more education and training in hopes of landing a better paying job.

    But the additional education is no guarantee to higher paying employment, Asher said.

    “A college degree is still is very good investment, but like any investment, you are not sure of your returns,” she said.

  58. Shore Guy says:

    Bottom line, Barny Frank is too extreme for the voterrs of Mass and he knows his views will not resonate with voters. It has gotten to the point, it seems, where even Mass voters are willing to discard a member of congress who has long seniority and lots of power because the member is out of touch with the world today.

  59. Shore Guy says:

    “Household debt totaled $11.66 trillion ”

    And this is the good news? Other than the iceberg, how was the trip on the Titanic?

  60. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [58] shore

    Wow. And I thought I was blowing it. Not even close.

    Sad thing is that this guy had some moments, but failed to recognize or capitalize on them. Sounds like he has been running and/or avoiding his whole life. An easy trap to fall into, but not impossible to get out of.

  61. Shore Guy says:

    Salt mine time. Happy blogging all.

  62. JCer says:

    Nom, from the last thread you asked for espresso recommendations. I would recommend a regular espresso machine like Saeco or Delonghi and ESE pods(clean and easy) because it wouldn’t lock you in, but still even the cost of the ESE pods might not make sense over 3yr ownership. right now the best deal I’ve seen is the Espressione superauto that Barnes and noble is selling for $550, it has a 10yr warranty on the brew group and is supposed to be a good machine but I have no experience with it. Another good unit is the old school Saeco Vienna superauto which you can get for like $400, no blinking lights or lcd screens but it makes a damn good shot. For non autos before I went auto I had a Delonghi pump espresso machines(chinese made) but they only lasted like a year or so before the pumps went, but the made nice espresso and were only like $100-200. If you want a throwaway the DeLonghi Bar32 can be bought for like $99 or even less(I think wholelattelove is selling these for $99 free shipping, a 10% off coupon and then a $20 mail in rebate so like $69) and it will make good espresso but it won’t last long(probably 2-3 yrs max depending on use and cleaning) but you can by 3 for the price of one decent machine. I had a more expensive Breville from Willy Sonoma and the espresso was not great even compared to the cheap DeLonghi. If you are not an espresso snob and just want something decent to make some cappuccino every once in a while go cheap, otherwise I’d say go for a super auto it makes life easier, makes cheaper espresso and you’re going straight from beans which is still best. Lavazza is really your best bet for espresso shots, good but not as expensive as Illy, E.S.E pods are like $50 for 150, beans are like $22 per kilo but I’d suggest not buying by the kilo as the beans don’t stay fresh to long after being opened. Another investment to make cleanup easier would be the nespresso auto frother, with that and ese pods you won’t have grinds everywhere and won’t have to worry about cleaning the steam wand or tube because of the syphoning action. If you descale bimonthly and run your portafilter through the dishwasher every few days you shouldn’t have any issues.

  63. Anon E. Moose says:

    Shore [55];

    Subject to an ethics investigation. Interesting euphamism. As I recall the reports, she helped her family-connected bank jump the line to step up to the TARP trough.

    Its not quite letting the addict run the drug store; just putting her in charge of security.

  64. Confused in NJ says:

    64.Shore Guy says:
    November 29, 2011 at 11:58 am
    “Household debt totaled $11.66 trillion ”

    And this is the good news? Other than the iceberg, how was the trip on the Titanic?

    Only $1.2 Trillion is currently delinquent. Great market news.

  65. shore (16)-

    Yield must be paid.

    No way the vigilantes hop the Atlantic.

    It’s different here.

    What happens to the derivatives market when yields start getting driven up?

    Fasten your seatbelts. It’s gonna get a little bumpy.

  66. freedy (23)-

    Bawney is gonna get hired by GS as a fluffer for Blankfein.

  67. freedy (42)-

    The only person around here who handles himself is moose.

    “Oh the pensions,they will handle themselves”

  68. gary says:

    Fuking Giants.

  69. JJ says:

    Monday after Giants beat the Pats I proudly sold my Jets/Giants Christmas Eve tickets as it looked like Manning had shot his load for the year.

    The Packers and Saints are so much better than Giants that I think if NFL said for Playoffs since Jets/Giants share a stadium they could combine their teams into one picking the best players they still could not compete.

    The Knicks picked a good time to have a Christmas game as by then football in NY will be over.
    gary says:
    November 29, 2011 at 1:08 pm
    Fuking Giants.

  70. gary says:

    Manning threw for over 400 yards and 2 TDs despite the fact that the running game is the worst in the NFL and the back seven on defense is like Sponge Bob after he got hit with buck shot.

  71. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [67] JCer


  72. The real footballers are the black-and-whites of the Tyneside.

  73. Champions League or bust!

  74. gary says:

    That’s the Giants back seven I’m talking about. The linebackers are invisible and the secondary has gaping holes.

  75. Libtard in Union says:

    The only reason Manning threw for >400 is that Breez only needed about 45 seconds to score a touchdown on each drive. The Saints Time Of Possesion was only 28:32!!! And they scored 49 points. That has to be a record or close to it. The Giants D was worst I have ever seen from them. Unfortunately the Jets ain’t much better. Green Bay will go undefeated this year unless coach decides to rest his starters. Not a team that could touch them except maybe Pittsburgh. San Fran is on a bit of a lucky streak. Baltimore has a defense, but no offense behind Flacco. Perhaps the Ravens and the Giants ought to merge?

  76. chicagofinance says:

    5 hours ago
    One of the best things we did for our daughter was teach her to shoot. She and I both shoot Berettas: Urika over-and-under 12- and 20-gauge shotguns fitted to us by a talented gunsmith, as well as Beretta and Glock pistols for sheer target practice. She’s a gifted shot, training with a former Olympian for hours to compete in the Olympics until she decided that her school work was the better foundation for her future. (She was right about that and is now studying geological engineering in the honors program at a very demanding university.)

    Aside from all the funny comments here, her confidence soared as the number of targets she hit increased. This sport is a great leveller: being a good shot isn’t dependent on being male or female, but rather on one’s vision, timing, ability and willingness to practice. (And of course, money: shells are expensive.)

    Her experiences upland game bird hunting taught her in real life that a gun is an instrument of death and is to be respected. (Before anyone starts, we only harvest/kill what we will consume, so we’re not leaving a wasted trail of carnage in our wake.) The serious nature of this sport helped form a conscientious, mature attitude toward life in general — a far cry from the mall-strolling gangs of gigglers. And we have a sport (hunting and skeet shooting) that we, as a family, can do for as long as my husband and I are strong enough to hold a shotgun to our shoulders. We plan to teach our future daughter-in-law how to shoot (and fly fish) as that brave young soul prepares to wed our son.

    And yes, there is some humor in all of this. One day some goofy, hairy-legged boy will want to “teach her how to shoot” out here in the American West. He is in for one HECK of a surprise and I look forward to the phone call from her with the tale. (posted by Randall’s spouse)

  77. Libtard in Union says:

    Brees. Sorry.

  78. The Original NJ Expat says:

    #31 gary – from the article: Simply put, there has been a profound structural shift — a reversal of what took place in the 1950s, when drivable suburbs boomed and flourished as center cities emptied and withered.


  79. Shore Guy says:

    What gosh-darned bad luck for Iran. It is funny how bad things just seem to keep happening to their nuclear facilities.

    Iran denies explosion after mystery blast heard near key nuclear facility

    Authorities dismiss reports of blast as new satellite images show destruction from earlier incident at another facility

  80. Libtard in Union says:

    Eh, Eagles once scored 58 in 34:38 which is the highest scoring game I can remember in the modern era. That’s .581 points per minute versus Brees’ .596 per minute last night. Still, big blue blew.

  81. Libtard in Union says:

    Shore…Somewhere near Tel Aviv a bottle of Baron Herzog has just been uncorked.

  82. gary says:


    Pittsburgh isn’t stopping Green Bay. As for the Giant’s defense, simply horrible. The Pats look like they’re getting their mojo back… absolutely shredded the Eagles and the Eagles always play tough D.

  83. Fabius maximus says:

    #78 Clot

    Some of the many, that know the barcodes are a bust.

  84. gary says:

    And f*ck Dallas! ;)

  85. freedy says:

    and screw barney frank

  86. Fabius maximus says:

    #47 Jcer

    Its funny that coders can be split down as
    Self taught
    Classical Math/Physics/CompSci/Engineering backgrounds
    Crossover Different major/ CompSci Master

    The crossovers are funny. I know a few girls started with Psycology major and CompSci masters. They tried cutting it as coders, and ended up in BigLaw research departments. It’s a perfect fit for them.

  87. gluteus (88)-

    Oddsmakers? You’re kidding, right?

    Check the results; check the points. BTW, we’re taking three off Chelsea this week.

  88. JCer says:

    Fab, your sweet spot is someone who is the first 2, funny thing is that I met people as an undergrad who were coders, self talk and in comp sci, C students yet really good coders far better than the people with A’s. Theory does matter, crossovers can be truly awful, I once had a consultant who went to all reputable schools had science undergrad, and compsci masters who couldn’t code his way out of a paper bag. Coders are a funny breed, my wife was compsci but was never a coder, even in school she did all theoretical work.

  89. Nicholas says:

    I view any programming language as just that, a language. Talent for foreign languages isn’t for everyone and at most you can learn only about 8 before your brain starts to muddle them all together.

    The interesting thing about programming languages is that they are all similar and based on logic and contain many of the same constructs. These languages are evolving and each one fits very distinct and special roles. Scripting languages, object oriented languages, media presentation languages, mathmatics languages, low level languages. Saying that one is better than the others often doesn’t do the arugument much justice because they all have specific roles.

    One can say that C is better than Fortran or Basic but they cannot say that C is better than Java because these two are not attempting to describe things in the same way. Comparisons between C++ and Java make more sense as both those languages are object oriented.

    Anyway, the purpose of this post was to point out that some people are good with multiple languages. I find it quite easy to translate actions into programming languages. I also agree that there isn’t a good way to introduce kids to programming at an early level because the concepts don’t quite translate well for them. I tried explaining the concept of a “function” to my 13 year old nefew and the sheer look of confusion and terror on his face was evident. Perhaps it was all my geek speak but I think I do a pretty good job with explanations.

    How else are you supposed to relay the information? “A function is a set of instructions that is run on a set of inputs that produces a set of outputs. Imagine a function as a black box in which you put things in and at a later time you get something out”. I would have thought that it would be obvious from the words function and malfunction but apparently not everyone gets it.

  90. 30 year realtor says:

    Moose #44 – Huh? Real estate contracts are black and white! You are talking about hiding what? MLS info and mortgage docs have no correlation. Your entire comment is a bunch of disconnected thoughts.

    There is no shortage of material for real estate agent bashing. You can do better. Please try to make sense.

  91. JJ says:

    “Imagine a function as a black box in which you put things in and at a later time you get something out”.

    What does Antonio Cromartie have to do with computers?

  92. Nicholas says:

    There are a couple of video games that incorporate elements of programming that seem to have been gaining some traction. Light Bot and Light Bot 2 are two games that are made with the concept of light programming and functions. Your are tasked with getting the robot to navigate a course and turn on and off squares by scripting his actions in advance and then hitting the “run” button to let him do this thing.

    I think that this might be the best attempt I have seen at reaching a younger audience. The level of difficulty for me was very easy and I completed each puzzle in under 2-5 minutes but I could see a young kid doing some soul searching as they try to incorporate functions and reduce the number of commands being given to the light bot.

    Check it out if you are interested.

    These flash games are free and just require you to watch some advertizing before playing.

  93. 30 year realtor says:

    Gary #45 – Self control is lacking on the buyer’s side and this is only a problem if you are not the seller? I think I get your point.

  94. Nicholas says:


    Whats your malfunction?

  95. JJ says:

    Atlantis Resort also went BK today, wonder if I could get a deal on a BK airline to a BK resort today.

  96. yo says:

    Why is the EU looking at the IMF to bail them out?Isn’t the US the biggest contributor?That is right,they want the US to print the bail out but they curse the US dollar.I say let the ECB deal with their own problems.Not one in Fox said anything about the ECB bailing them out but a discussion of IMF,O and the US tax payer.What can O really do?He can’t even pass anything in congress

  97. JCer says:

    Nicolas, thats not true I have been programming since I was 12, I saw something a while ago about a 7 or 10 yr old kid who made an iphone game. The language comparison isn’t the issue, a lot of people in the outside world don’t realize that depending on how good you are with certain concepts, it is easy to change languages. My point with Java is it is a simplified language, it abstracts complexity nicely and 75% of the people coding it do not understand the implications of the “objects” they are using. Kind of like how 50 years ago the Cobol jockeys really didn’t know how the systems worked, just all the mind numbing word based commands. Basically it is almost as easy to throw together some java as it is to write javascript.

  98. Nicholas says:

    You might be in a better position to comment on that subject than me JC. I’m just an electrical engineer that uses programming to get things done out of necessity. I regularly come against new pieces of equipment that require coding, scripting, and assembly language to get working properly. I’m the sort of person where they ask me to build a java program to get things done and I buy a book, read it, and then start programming away.

  99. gary says:

    30 year [98],

    Very few people have enough discipline and self control which is why we have an obesity and debt problem. Adults are no different than children… just a bit taller and older. They whine and cry and it doesn’t take much to convince them to act if they’re already 75% on their way. They other 25% is easily achieved when a slickster sales person drops the anvil on their head.

  100. JJ says:

    Realtors crack me up. I had three realtors who did not appreciate my 4-10 year time horzon to buy. I did have one realtor who respected my decesion to only show me homes priced at 10% below market value. However, she did not appreciate I ment 10% below my projected market bottom not todays prices.

  101. Anon E. Moose says:

    30-yr [95];

    MLS info and mortgage docs have no correlation.

    Playing hide-the-ball again? If MLS data is so worthless, why does one have to be a licensed agent to buy access to it? Seems to me that the organization (made up of used house sales flacks) that runs the MLS could turn a nice buck by selling this “worthless” resource to all comers. Seems odd that the NAR gang is among the top lobbyists with the express purpose of fighting off the FTC’s attemps to open up the MLS system. That’s alot of trouble and treasure to go through over something so worthless.

  102. JCer says:

    Nicolas, you are probably far better than most as an EE you know at the root how the machines work, a big issue in programming is people doing things using high level languages without actually understanding what is means, what is actually happening or why something should or more aptly should not be used. That being said there are people who are at ease with programing even without real knowledge, but it is relatively easy to teach those people concepts, the real issue is you can know concepts but not really be comfortable coding. Coding is almost a natural born skill, which is why good coders are hard to find.

  103. 30 year realtor says:

    Moose – which argument do you want to have? From yesterday’s thread I thought it was about very smart real estate agents tricking people into buying houses for too much money. Then I remembered real estate agents are idiots, so it can’t be that.

    So let me get this straight. Sellers give consent to real estate brokers to disseminate information to other real estate brokers in order to expedite the sale of their home. This sensitive and personal information including telephone numbers and how to access the property is then shared by an industry “professionals” who are liable for who has access to this sensitive, personal information.

    Where exactly do you fit in? You can get all the information with the phone numbers and showing information deleted via public sites. What exactly are you being deprived of?

  104. chicagofinance says:

    WSJ Editorial
    NOVEMBER 30, 2011

    The Barney Frank Era

    The Congressman from Fannie Mae retires.

    It is a newspaper truism that what is good for journalism is bad for the country, and vice versa. Let’s just say that regarding the pending retirement of Congressman Barney Frank, we’re delighted to make the professional sacrifice.

    Few House Members have made a bigger legislative mark, and arguably no one so expensively. Mr. Frank deserves to be forever remembered—and we’ll help everyone remember him—as the nation’s leading protector of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before their fall. For years Barney helped block meaningful reform of the mortgage giants while pushing an “affordable housing” agenda that helped to enlarge the subprime mortgage industry.

    “I do think I do not want the same kind of focus on safety and soundness that we have in OCC [Office of the Comptroller of the Currency] and OTS [Office of Thrift Supervision],” Mr. Frank said on September 25, 2003, in one of his many legendary rhetorical hits. “I want to roll the dice a little bit more in this situation towards subsidized housing.” The dice came up snake-eyes for the housing market and U.S. economy.

    Democracy can be unfair, and for his sins Mr. Frank was rewarded with the chairmanship of the Financial Services Committee in 2009 and an opening to remake the U.S. financial industry. It was like asking Charlie Sheen to teach an anger management class. The result was Dodd-Frank, which didn’t solve the “too big to fail” problem but did make banks even more subject to the wishes of Washington. The crony capitalism exemplified by Fannie and Freddie became more broadly embedded in U.S. financial markets.

    First elected to Congress in 1980 after a state legislative career, Mr. Frank is a political lifer. So though he is 71 years old, it’s intriguing that he is choosing to step down now. Nancy Pelosi kept her job as Democratic leader after 2010 in part by telling her colleagues that she and her fellow liberals could retake the House in 2012.

    Mr. Frank said yesterday that he had planned to run for one more term, but that his state’s redistricting plan means he’d face thousands of new voters. He won in 2010 with only 54% of the vote, his lowest margin since 1980, and his retirement may suggest flagging Democratic confidence in their ability to win back the majority. Barney isn’t one to give up easily if he saw a quick way back to the chairmanship.

    Mr. Frank’s career has exemplified the leftward drift of the Democratic Party over the last half century. Hostile to U.S. military power and favoring European levels of taxation and social spending, the Frank Democrats revealed their priorities in all their effervescence during the 2009-2010 Congress. The voters responded by electing 63 more House Republicans, the largest gain by either party since 1948.

    Liberals who regret Mr. Frank’s departure needn’t worry too much. The next Democrat in line to run Financial Services is California’s Maxine Waters, whose main contribution to Dodd-Frank was requiring racial-preference officers at each of the regional Federal Reserve banks. Journalists may not miss Mr. Frank after all.

  105. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [77] Meat

    Geordies Proud to be a Geordie.

    Better Dead than Red.

  106. Fabius maximus says:

    #92 Clot

    Yea, all thoses bookies will be going broke offering 25-1 on the toon for a top 4.

  107. Anon E. Moose says:

    30-yr [108];

    If you’re trying intentionally to be obtuse in order to boster you professional self-esteem, be my guest. On the other hand, with all due respect to Gary, you’re conflating my argument with his.

    My argument is consistent, that realtors have one and only one product to sell — access to MLS data that they themselves make scarce. In fact, they spend millions warding off regulation that would force them to make it less scarce. This simple fact breeds laziness and contempt among practicioners, like a sales flack who refuses to drive 10 minutes one town over to negotiate over a property she allegedly wants to sell. Fine with me – her client seems like a nice lady and I look forward to being her neighbor for years to come after I buy her market-wisened neighbor’s remarkably similar house for tens of thousands less. It just occurs to me that the client may have had a different plan in mind.

  108. 30 year realtor says:

    Moose – All you want is the ability for you to buy a home at a discount. Who the discount comes from is not really something you are concerned about. Seller…real estate agent…you hate em both. You are the good guy and they are the enemy. I can accept acting in self interest, but call it what it is.

    There is a fine line between being smarter than everyone else and being stupid for yourself!

  109. Juice Box says:

    re: #109 – Maxine is out to get whitey. I would think if she gets the job of running the House Financial Services Committee then we will see the reparations legislation get to the floor for a vote along with lots of entertaining grilling of finance execs. I believe Corzine is going to be subpoenaed for mid December meeting. Should be interesting to see what will transpire as he pleads the 5th continually.

  110. 30 year realtor says:

    Moose, I need to better understand what is going on between you and the agent you mention if I am to have an opinion. Something tells me there is so much more going on than you describe.

  111. Juice Box says:

    re: #112 – Moose the same can be said for all kinds of data, Bloomberg Professional cost $1700 a month. Should that data be free just because you want to buy stocks and bonds? You seem to think that the MLS data should be free because you want a to buy a house? Who is going to pay to collect and update the MLS data, host the data if it is free?

  112. Anon E. Moose says:

    Juice [116];

    Where did I say it should be free? Show me the link and I’ll buy your bloomberg this month.

  113. Anon E. Moose says:

    Con’t [117];

    Hint: check [106].

  114. Fabius maximus says:

    #97 Jcer
    The easiest way to teach kids is with someting simple like basic. Assignment (a=2, b=3) , Itereation (a=a+1) and Condition (if a>b then ….) are the foundational building blocks of all languages. Master those three and you can write any language.

    Java has been the best thing for coders and the worst. It opened up the application side, but closed down the system side. Coders know how to use a library to access anything, but many would be stuck on how to write the underlying drivers.

    Mrs Fabius wants to go back to work. She is done with engineering so I might cross train her into FPGA programming co-located devices in a data center in Mahwah. Thats is one of my fall back plans, if I get canned in the next few years.

  115. Happy Renter says:

    [114] You can bet Uncle Omar will be first in line.

  116. Juice Box says:

    Moose – You are arguing for open access are you not? Isn’t the definition of Open Access pretty much free? The proprietary information in the MLS is all about sharing commissions, it is not collected there for your benefit. The fact that you are onto the game of how they make a living trading access to listings is just something you will have to live with.

    Don’t hate the playa…..

  117. Anon E. Moose says:

    Juice [121];

    Gee, Moose, I guess I was wrong.

    Fixed that for you. Apology accepted.

  118. Anon E. Moose says:

    30-yr [115];

    Moose, I need to better understand what is going on between you and the agent you mention if I am to have an opinion.

    Pity that thought didn’t cross your mind before you piped up.

  119. 30 year (108)-

    The only things lacking in moose are a conscience and a brain. However, he scores high in avarice and self-grandeur.

  120. seif says:

    While recent reports have shown mild upticks in data it is important to keep it all into perspective. The ongoing credit crunch, high unemployment, lower values, excess supply and low household formation will continue to pressure real estate prices for quite some time to come. So while the media looks for its daily dose of sunshine the reality is that at the margin the changes that are occurring is driven by the supply and demand of those that have a “For Sale” sign in the lawn and those who are actively looking to buy. When prices were going parabolic it was the “idiots” that we loved for driving our home prices higher. The belief was that the cycle of higher home prices would continue indefinitely and somehow our home became an investment vehicle.

    Read more:

  121. Juice Box says:

    Moose – If you are looking for some kind of heartfelt moment I would suggest sticking you head where the sun don’t shine and listen for a heartbeat because nobody apologizes around here.

  122. JJ says:

    redfin and property shark gives out basic MLS data for free. property shark only catch is you can only look up a few homes a day.

    But basically I got list day, all records of price cuts, what they paid for it, owners name and owners address and phone number. At that point people can either use a realtor or just call owner direct.

    Problem is most sellers are not smart enough or realtor does not allow them to sell itself during listing period. Also why are people so scared to ring a bell. You drive by a house with a for sale sign just knock and make an offer. In todays market husband might make you a burger and hand you a beer while his wife offers a happy ending and his first born if you buy it and let you save 6% commission.

  123. JCer says:

    Fab, you’re even going to advanced, first you’d start by describing real world actions or games like a card game or even something like making pancakes and you have the children write down the steps required, you start teaching logic, then you’d go to mechanics, actually javascript’s lack of typing makes it good for teaching children as are scripting languages. The system side isn’t even what I’m referring to, it is the fact that most java programmers fail to understand basic data structures, let alone the ability to write drivers. FPGA, Field-Programable-Gate-Arrays? What do they use those for in Mahwah, would that be VHDL, Verilog, or something else? Egadz, writing a complicated program in an HDL will make her want to go back to engineering or poke her eyes out, HDL suck in the friendliness of the tools compared to regular software languages or at least did years ago.

  124. Juice Box says:

    re #125 – Seif – Belief gap has closed. Nobody talks housing anymore.

  125. Still waiting for moose to disclose what he does for a living.

  126. Anon E. Moose says:

    Meat [130];

    Why bother? I know how wrong you are. No need to embarass you in front of the others here.

  127. JCer says:

    Good god moose, your hate of realtors is crazy. Many times they more than earn the 5 or 6 percent, especially the way the market is now. Between marketing and showings, driving around clients, and finally negotiating and making sure the deal goes through, and then they get wacked by the brokerage for like a quarter to half that commission. Unless the property is over a million or it is a really easy transaction, they are working for that money and largely earn it.

  128. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (119) fabius,

    The Mrs could also do some photo shoots for ads. Easier money.

  129. Shore Guy says:

    “Still waiting for moose to disclose what he does for a living.”

    In the end, what does it matter? I asume that, like most, his policy positions are colored by his experiences and background, regardless of what they may be. I don’t tend to find what moose says enlightening or well considered; however, knowing that moose is a banker, a police chief, or a superintendent of schools, for example, will not suddenly make moose’s comments more or less insightful.

  130. Shore Guy says:

    “have one and only one product to sell — access to MLS data that they themselves make scarce. ”

    Whilst access to the data is not to be underestimated, there are multiple other places for people to list homes and to identify homes that arer for sale. In my observation, the real product that an individual agent offers is hand holding — helping people who do not deal with large numbers on a daily basis feel comfortable with the prospects of spending multiple-years worth of income on what might well be a millstone.

  131. 30 year realtor says:

    For what it is worth…my Moose ranting comes from reading his comments without someone opening the drapes to allow reality to shine in once in a while. I just start to feel ill from it.

    Moose, I hold no ill will toward you. You are nothing more than another guy who believes he knows it all about the other guy’s business. If you weren’t so busy being angry or crying about how you are getting f*cked, I wouldn’t pay you any mind.

    And by the way…never offered an opinion about your current real estate agent problem. As Meat said yesterday, she likely has you pegged as an annoying waste of time. She may be a stupid real estate agent, but you are an easy read!

    So much for my self imposed policy of taking the high road on this blog.

  132. Fabius maximus says:

    #133 Nom

    Thats a new low even for you. I’ll file that away for the next time you discuss your wife and kids.

  133. Barbara says:

    97 . Nicholas, thanks I just gave the link to my 8 year old. He’s fooling around with the game and watching some YouTube tutorials. I can see the math!

  134. moose (131)-

    Go ahead, embarrass me. I can take it. You won’t disclose because you’re a paid bankster lackey.

    “Why bother? I know how wrong you are. No need to embarass you in front of the others here.”

  135. shore (134)-

    Normally, I couldn’t care less about what anyone here does for a living, but moose’s sociopathic, conscienceless self-interest gives me the feeling that more than most, where he sits is where he stands. The condescenscion he exhibits also makes me think he’s some kind of mediocre lawyer.

  136. Moose, looking to spare me some embarrassment.

    I spent close to my first year posting here defending the position that the housing downturn was part of a normal business cycle and that RE would come back after a couple of years. I don’t think anything anyone could say here now would embarrass me any more than my own words did a few years ago.

    C’mon, moose…disclose.

  137. Who else but some shyster legal flack can defend the position that it’s ok for banks to commit forgery and fraud?

  138. BehindtheFence says:

    House Flipping 2011 Style….

    Venture: Flipping houses in a post-bubble world
    As the housing market has tanked, investors have discovered new ways to make quick profits. We examine how some Realtors have been buying and quickly reselling distressed properties, in some cases, possibly to the detriment of taxpayers.

    Full story…

  139. Fabius Maximus says:

    An interetsting poll from the UK on the greatest presidents.

  140. Fabius Maximus says:

    An interesting comparison to Real Estate. Overpaying for a POS and getting rewarded.

  141. Neanderthal Economist says:

    I think moose is onto something and he is doing all of us a service. He may be more hated than frank but this is not a popularity contest. The mls is antiquated and inefficient. You can’t compare mls to bloomberg because that is high end users, most people use yahoo finance for stock research and its all free. Plus stock commisions came down dramatically since iinternet but realtor commission is still same price as 1980’s.

  142. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [137] fabius


    Tried to pay you a compliment and that’s the smack I get???

  143. cobbler says:

    Danny Deng and his bride-to-be dreamed of their lives together as they walked through the showroom for a Shanghai housing project almost three months ago. Pooling his own and his parents’ savings, a loan from his boss and a 1.1 million yuan ($172,000) mortgage, he bought an apartment and secured his fiancee’s hand.
    On Nov. 19, Deng faced off a ring of security guards three rows deep wearing camouflage and carrying shields as he joined more than 100 homeowners rallying in front of the development’s sales office. His transformation from newlywed to street protester came after China Vanke Co. (000002) slashed prices for future buyers at the Qinglinjing complex, erasing about 20 percent of the value of his three-bedroom unit overnight.
    “If I’d paid for it all myself, the price cut wouldn’t bother me as much, but there’s a lifetime of my parent’s blood and sweat in it,” said Deng, a 30-year-old electrical systems salesman. “Developers’ profits are outrageous. The price they set when the housing market kept going up was far more than the real value.”
    Deng’s anger underscores the dilemma facing China’s government as it tries to cool the property market. If policies such as increased down payment requirements don’t go far enough, it risks a housing bubble; if it pushes too hard, it may provoke the ire of a new generation of middle class “fang nu,” or housing slaves, in a reference to the lifetime’s work needed to pay off debts….

  144. morpheus says:

    140: “mediocre lawyer”…Moose? Hey…that’s my gig. Stop moving into my territory moose. cease your actions or I will hire nom to sue your ass!

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